September 22, 2025 • 29 mins
What are the first 100 days in the principal role really like? From navigating unexpected challenges and building relationships with staff, students, and whānau, to establishing their leadership vision while managing the day-to-day complexities of school operations, our guests share candid insights about what it really takes to transition into principalship. Hosted by Eleisha McNeill.
Today’s guests are:
- Lori Mravicich, tumuaki of Waiau Pā School
- Tony Baird, principal of Karamea Area School
- Richard Washington, principal of Nelson College
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education.
You can learn more by accessing the e-learning modules for principals on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eleisha (00:08):
Kia ora, and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for aspiring and current seniorleaders and tumuaki in Aotearoa
New Zealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill,and first up, I have to
apologise for my voice. I havean immaculately timed cold. In
this episode, we're going to betalking about the first 100 days
of principalship, from buildingrelationships to navigating
(00:31):
unexpected challenges it can bea big change, but a rewarding
one. Let's crack into it. Lori,would do you mind starting off
by introducing yourself?
Lori (00:41):
Kia ora koutou, ko Lori Mravicich tōku ingoa. I am
tumuaki of Waiau Pā School.It's a beautiful semi-rural full
primary school in South Auckland,and I am now in my second year
of principalship.
Eleisha (00:52):
Fantastic. Tony.
Tony (00:53):
Kia ora koutou, ko Tony Baird tōku ingoa. I'm tumauki
at Karamea Area School. Bit
of context that is at the very,very top of the west coast of
the South It's unique, beautiful,isolated place and I am
literally just weeks into mysecond year as principal here.
Eleisha (01:13):
Wow, Richard.
Richard (01:14):
Kia koutou, Richard Washington tōku ingoa, uh,
tumuaki principal of NelsonCollege, and I've just completed
my first year as tumuaki here.
Eleisha (01:24):
I'm gonna start by asking you what surprised you
each most about the transitionfrom your previous role to
becoming a principal. Maybestart with you, Richard.
Richard (01:34):
What surprised me the most - probably when you're in
your other roles as a, a deputyor assistant, you're sort of
focused on certain portfoliosand areas, and then when you're
the tumuaki principal just thebreadth, across everything, and
then in particular aroundproperty and the bigger picture
around finances.
Eleisha (01:53):
Yeah. What about you, Lori?
Lori (01:55):
Yeah, uhm, I moved from a deputy principal position in a
state integrated school in the
Eleisha (01:59):
Mhmm.
Lori (01:59):
center of Pukekohe that had a high Pasifika and Asian
role, uhm, to leading asemi-rural state school that was
75% Pasifika, and I'm Pakeha,and 25% Māori role. So even
though it's only a 25-minutedrive away, it felt like I'd
stepped into a completelydifferent world, socially,
culturally, operationally. I hadto wrap my head around things
(02:19):
like bus networks, water safetyplans, and I have quickly
realised why redbands are anessential part of the
principal's toolkit in a ruralschool.
Eleisha (02:28):
ha.
Lori (02:28):
They all laughed at my little pink gumboots the first
week,
Eleisha (02:31):
Ha,
Lori (02:31):
uhm, but
Eleisha (02:31):
ha, ha.
Lori (02:31):
seriously, the change in school context and the community
expectations, that was allreally surprisingly very
different, and it took someadjusting to. I understood that
becoming a principal meanttaking on full responsibility,
but as Richard mentioned,navigating that reality every
day brought a kind of level ofpressure and complexity that
took some time for me to adaptto.
Eleisha (02:52):
I bet, I bet, what about you, Tony?
Tony (02:54):
Well, so a little bit of background, I had 10 years
teaching overseas and came backto a large school in
Christchurch for a year or two,decided I didn't want to be a
teacher anymore. Took some timeoff, worked at the University of
Canterbury. We had a propertyhere on the Coast and my wife
and I decided to move here in2019. I initially came to the
(03:16):
school to do some relief Englishteaching
Eleisha (03:19):
Ha,
Tony (03:20):
various things have happened along the way and so I
was a classroom teacher for twoor three years here. I was the
deputy principal, my immediatepredecessor was unwell for the
last part of his time here. Soalthough I've been appointed
principal for 12 months I'vebeen acting as principal for
about 18 months. And while I washead of secondary and then
(03:41):
deputy principal, a I think I'decho Richard's comments, is the
biggest change I guess is goingfrom feeling that you have a
pretty good handle on the areasthat you need to be responsible
for to suddenly everything, youknow, and you're absolutely
right. I mean I mean, I've beentalking during the interview to
the board and say look, you know,I think I'm a pretty good
classroom practitioner. I'mpretty good at managing
(04:01):
relationships with people. WhatI'm not good at is property and
finance and budgets and I'venever had to do them. And I'm
lucky, you know, you know, ourEO has been here for 20 years,
she brings in the SUE reports,you know. I'm developing an
understanding of that, but oneof the biggest changes. And
again, just things like buses,so you're at your desk in
Eleisha (04:20):
Mhmm.
Tony (04:20):
the morning, and some kid's playing up on the bus. And
there's next hour out of yourday gone. And it's just that
stuff. You don't know what'sgoing to walk through the door.
Eleisha (04:28):
Yeah, it's quite quite a quite a big change, eh? And
you mentioned, um, Tony, youmentioned relationships there.
So how did you approach buildingrelationships with the existing
staff in those crucial kind offirst weeks on the job? Um,
Richard.
Richard (04:46):
For me it was just being visible and being
accessible. I was here, thereand everywhere, I was in
department meetings, classrooms,out in the playgrounds, I was
making sure I had facultymorning teas lined up,
one-on-one meetings, just reallybuilding trust and showing a
genuine care and interest. So,you know for me relationships as
(05:08):
we're spoken about is key, andjust understanding what makes
this place tick, why this place
Eleisha (05:14):
Mhmm.
Richard (05:14):
is so important. And learning. Because a lot of
people in schools you knowwhether they've been there five
minutes or you know 20, 30 years,everyone has a story to tell and
a part to play and I, for me Ireally wanted to learn and
understand that, and make themunderstand I'm not here straight
away flip everything on his headI'm here to listen
Eleisha (05:32):
Yeah.
Richard (05:32):
take my figure out the challenges together and
basically be as a teamcollectively.
Eleisha (05:37):
Lory, did you take a similar approach?
Lori (05:40):
Oh look, building strong relationships was my top
priority coming in.I know whatimpact a positive school culture
can on a school, and I'm alsoseeing how damaging a toxic one
can be.
Eleisha (05:48):
Mhmm.
Lori (05:49):
So I made time in my first few days for one-on-one
conversations with every staffmember to gauge what their
current work expectations were,any concerns they had about the
current systems in place, whatthey valued in a leader, and
what they wanted from their workenvironment. I also had all the
staff complete DISC profiles, sothose profiles gave me some
valuable insights into eachperson's communication style.
(06:09):
For example, how do they want anemail replied to - short, sharp
to the point, or they want somefluffies at the beginning asking
Eleisha (06:14):
Mhmm. Ha,
Lori (06:14):
about their weekend,
Eleisha (06:15):
ha,
Lori (06:15):
makes a big difference to everyone, things like where the
workplace preference is, werethey a team player, like to work
in isolation, um and just theirlikely responses to different
situations. It was also great'cause it gave the individual
comparisons to my results, andthat helped me to understand how
I was going to work alongsideeach staff member, and I found
that really helpful indeveloping some strong working
(06:38):
relationships, especially withmy deputy principal, 'cause she
was brand new to the school justas I was. So we were both
adapting to this really newsituation. In addition, we
undertook collaborativeactivities, like the Culture
Science Cards, to explore and adefine define our school culture,
and just clarify what our sharedpriorities were going to be for
the year. Ultimately, it wasjust kind of important that they
saw me as approachable, open todialogue, and I think that was
(07:00):
going to be really important forme to get them on board with any
changes that I wanted to bringto the school.
Eleisha (07:06):
Definitely.
Tony (07:10):
Different situation for me because I was already here in
situ and had come through the,you know, the staff room. So I
had, you know, a pretty solidrelations with the knew how
different people ticked. And asI said before, it's a very small
group of people you're workingwith. So, you know, I mean, I
know all the kids by name
Eleisha (07:30):
Mhmm.
Tony (07:30):
and certainly with the staff, you know, how they how
they work. And for me, I've hadthat looking after the place,
keeping the hand on the tillerand hoping it was going the
right direction while mypredecessor was still in the
role. And I feel very much thatthat's what I'm continuing to do.
Um, in terms you know,relationships, my predecessor
(07:50):
used to talk about management bywalking around, by being present,
by being, you know, in theclassroom. This is a new build,
we've only been in this placefor three years so it's open
plan, so it's easy to walkaround and be visible. I'm
always out at interval and lunchtimes talking to the The biggest
change for me in terms ofrelationships was chatting with
(08:11):
one of my new principal supportpeople through Evaluation
Associates and, you know, I'drattled off what was going and
after about 15 minutes, he saidyeah, that's fine, but all
you're talking about is thesecondary school, the NCEA
results,
Eleisha (08:23):
Mhmm.
Tony (08:23):
the CAAs.He said what's happening in primary? And I
thought right. I need toconsciously decouple because
I've got a very capable DP and,and secondary team leader and uh,
I've got to learn what'shappening in the primary school,
Eleisha (08:34):
Mhmm.
Tony (08:34):
but I know nothing about structured literacy. So I've got
to start learning those things.Um, as the principal, I have to
sit in the primary team meetingequally weighty as the secondary
team meeting. And the beauty ofthis school is that we can start
that structured literacy thisyear and we'll still have those
kids when they're sitting theCAAs
Eleisha (08:52):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Tony (08:52):
and when level 3s. So we can really see that growth
coming through.
Eleisha (08:57):
That's awesome. And you would have had existing
relationships with the studentsand whānau, um, because you've
been there for a while, right?
Tony (09:04):
Yes.
Eleisha (09:05):
Yeah. So Richard, how did you go about building those
relationships, um, beyond, youknow, kind of getting out into
the playground and, and talkingto the kids?
Richard (09:15):
Yes, I guess for our context we have 1100 boys and
collectively with support near100, so it is the same
opportunity just getting up infront of the students, speaking
at assemblies, reinforcingvalues, again I was at the gate
in the morning at the gate inthe afternoon shaking, welcoming
(09:36):
boys to and from school,community events, getting into
the community as much aspossible, hosting informal like
drop-ins for parents to chat to,on parent teacher night just
being in the corridors availablefor them to connect with, um,
getting involved …and being onthe sideline of sports games,
uhm, I went on the bus recentlyfrom Nelson down to Christchurch
(09:57):
for an exchange and I ended upgetting to coach and manage one
of the teams which
Eleisha (10:01):
Oh, wow.
Richard (10:01):
getting back to grassroots was a real highlight
where I love that. And sometimesI think we get bogged down in
everything else and we need toturn back and actually, you know,
do the things we love and enjoylike we've spoken about, the
being present, doing what we
Eleisha (10:14):
Mhmm,
Richard (10:14):
initially in our early careers. So I think It's just
all those little things, yes,I'm principal, but I'm a human
being and I'm here to, you know,support and walk along this
journey at the same time andshow you it's okay to, you know,
drop your guard and be a humanbeing like like them and their
families.
Eleisha (10:31):
Yeah. And that makes a massive difference for parents
and, and for kids alike, okay.Um, Lori.
Lori (10:38):
Yeah, I think what we're all showing right now, no matter
the size of the school,relationships are the heart of
the school. So even with thesteep learning curve of the role,
like Richard, I made it apriority to be visible and
approachable. So out in theplayground every day, popping it
to classrooms regularly, makingsure to be the school gate
before and after school toconnect with the students and
the whānau,having a meet theprincipal barbecue at the
(11:00):
beginning of the year, beingpart of the PTA meetings. I
think that consistency helped tobuild trust
Eleisha (11:06):
Mhmm.
Lori (11:06):
and showed I genuinely cared about being part of the
community. I also made it a goalto learn all 340 students names
by the end of the term two. Soin my view, one of the quickest
ways to kind of connect with thestudent is by greeting them by
Eleisha (11:17):
Y.
Lori (11:17):
name. It shows you kind of see them and that they matter.
And then right away, you've justgot that connection.
Eleisha (11:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Can you, um, tell me about a significant
challenge if you had one at allthat you faced in your first 100
days and, and how you navigatedthat, maybe start with you, Lori
this time, you look like youhave something to say.
Lori (11:38):
See me nodding. I inherited quite a tricky
situation. One of the biggestchallenges I faced early on was
the school's financial situation.I knew things weren't in great
shape when I applied, but beinga DP, you don't really
understand the core of it tilyou get into the position. And
reality hit hard when I saw justhow much work the budget needed
(11:59):
and the position the school wasin. We were in a really tough
spot. And on top of that, I hadto manage surplus staffing with
our support
Eleisha (12:05):
Oh
Lori (12:05):
staff
Eleisha (12:05):
my
Lori (12:05):
and that is
Eleisha (12:05):
gosh.
Lori (12:06):
not an easy process to step into. And it meant I really
had to quickly build myfinancial leadership skills. So
thankfully I had the supportfrom the Ministry's School
Finance Advisors and big shoutout to EdTech Financial Services,
who came and helped me tounderstand every line of the
budget so that we could redo theentire thing and walking into
school and putting a moratoriumon all spending was far from
(12:29):
ideal, but it was necessary. SoI had to kind of navigate some
difficult conversations, allwhile trying to be upfront and
transparent with the staff andthe board about where we were at
and what needed to happen to digourselves out of this hole that
I'd found myself in when Istarted.
Eleisha (12:44):
Oh, wow. That's a great introduction to your school.
Lori (12:47):
Don't even get me started property issues, yeah.
Eleisha (12:51):
What about you, Tony?
Tony (12:53):
I started here, the school was being rebuilt. So it's one
of the post-World War II designsand it's been rebuilt as a
modern learning environment withthe big, you know, open space.
And then when we came into thisnew a lot of the staff were not
happy with what they were cominginto, they hadn't been bought
(13:13):
along, it was had been imposedon them, and there was a lot of,
kind of leftover grievances thatpeople had.And so trying to
work through that with peopleand saying, look, at the end of
the day, if we are here for thekids, this is the space that
we've got, and we've just got tomake it work. And what can we do?
(13:33):
How can we address the issuethat you have? And the other
thing for me, talking about sortof harking back to the community
question. As I said, yes, I haveplenty of connections
understanding of people in thecommunity, but we also, because
we are so small, you can't goanywhere without running into
parents and students. Andthere's a force we're
supermarkets and I cannot gothere and buy milk and bread
(13:55):
without talking or meetingsomebody and you have to
understand that that's how itworks. We also have parents who
are staff members um and parentswho are staff members feel that
they can talk about things inhave it important to think that
not the parents in other biggerschools just simply don't have.
And so that's been quiteinteresting to manage,
particularly when it comes tocontentious things, like
(14:17):
selection of sports teams Andpeople feel that they've got the
right to email me or come andsit down and tell me
Eleisha (14:23):
Yes.
Tony (14:23):
what we should be doing. And it's like, okay, are you
walking in with your parent haton or your teacher's hat on at
the moment? And where are theboundaries around that. And
that's also true of boardmembers who are also parents. So
that's been the most challenging,but for me is actually managing
those relationships and justdealing with that sort of
(14:48):
inherited issue about the newbuilding that
Eleisha (14:50):
Yeah.
Tony (14:50):
we're in.
Eleisha (14:51):
Yeah. There sure are some big challenges. They're
Richard.
Richard (14:56):
Yes, I guess probably coming in, it was expectations
around, you know, you had a biggroup saying they were hoping
for immediate change. And thensome who were just, you know,
protective of tradition and that,so trying to navigate where you
land, what you're going to doand how you're going to do
things. So again, back to thatrelationships, trying to listen,
(15:16):
is anything urgent, can itactually wait because there's no
need for making a change forchange shakes when you have no
idea how
Eleisha (15:22):
Yeah.
Richard (15:22):
things operate and that's probably difficult with a
big staff with so many different
facets going great we'll be ableto get this and let's get a
meeting in straight away becausenew kid on the block. Just again,
taking a minute to heed stockand just wait and not feel
rushed and panicked into makingchanges because of people just
necessarily waiting where it'sfantastic to see because when
(15:43):
you have people wanting to thatyou know you've got a great
staff because full of ideas,full of innovation, full of
creativity and that's what youwant within your
Eleisha (15:51):
Definitely. But it is just taking a moment to take a
breath. Then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.So you've already answered this
question, Richard. But, um, Tonyand Lory, how did you manage any
kind of pressure to make changesin that first initial period
before you kind of understoodthe school's culture, Lori?
Lori (16:10):
I found this really challenging given the unique
makeup of our school community.So on one hand, we had this
rural farming families with deepgenerational ties to the school
going back four or fivegenerations. And on the other, I
had increasing number of newurban families moving into these
new housing developments withinthe area. S there were two very
different cultures coexisting inthe same space in the school.
(16:32):
And at times, the tension wasvery noticeable. A perfect
example that differences wouldbe calf club. So this was almost
comical. So in the surveys, Iwould send out around their
feelings around calf club andits organisation every response
was 50/50. Ditch it.
Eleisha (16:49):
Mhmm.
Lori (16:49):
Keep it. It was it was quite entertaining for me to see.
But that was also a challengebecause you have to try to
strike that balance. So respectthose long-held traditions, but
find ways to modernize the eventand make it welcoming and
relevant for all the whānauthat are at the school. More
broadly, with all the otherchanges happening around the
school, I try to consult aswidely as I could and provide
(17:11):
clear explanations around thewhy behind the decisions I was
making. But I also had to learnthat I was never going to please
everyone. And once I could letgo of that, I was able to just
focus on making decisions that Iknew were in the best interests
of the children and the schoolas a whole.
Eleisha (17:26):
Yeah. Tony.
Tony (17:27):
The biggest takeaways, and I agree with Richard, is and
Lori, taking time, that I don'thave to give you an answer now,
even if you're banging the table.It's like, no, I need to think
about this, and to consult, andwhat I've found incredibly
helpful, so that theprofessional associations, we
have a top of the South Islandarea schools and then I have
(17:49):
people like Steve Beck, who's aministry advisor and the
Evaluation Associates. And youknow, just a phone call or two
and say, hey, this is what'sgoing on. This is what I think.
What do you reckon? And beingable to take that time, make
that decision, and then I think,as Lori was saying, and I've
said to staff a couple of timeswhen there's need to have those
conversations look, I'll alwaystell you why
(18:10):
and the reasons for why and ifyou don't like it, that's that's
unfortunate but that's why I'vedone
Eleisha (18:16):
Yeah.
Tony (18:16):
it. And you're right you simply cannot make everybody
happy all the time. and that'sbeen hugely helpful to me
because I think previously you'dexpect that, oh, someone's upset,
you've got to do something aboutit but no in actual fact you're
much better to take thinkconsult and then give reasons.
Eleisha (18:32):
Definitely. Um, did you put any systems or processes in
place around yourself, in yourown of time management, to help
manage just how overwhelming, um,stepping into that role
initially is, did you doanything around that, Richard?
Richard (18:47):
Yeah. Definitely I think I'm quite lucky. I've got
a very supportive wife who is ateacher and understands the
roles of a headship and bits andpieces so making sure that we've
got family time blocked out aswell. I've got a young family
but that's in the calendar aswell is really important, and
(19:07):
during the day I think workingwith my EA to block times for
just strategic thinking orcatching up with my leadership
team. It's really important toget sound bites and making sure
that you know we're on the samepage, is everyone okay with bits
and pieces because exactly whateveryone's spoken about today
you know in our roles you'resinging along beautifully and
(19:29):
then boom fa something comes inyour inbox or someone knocks at
the door and say hey we've gotsomething and everything stops.
to you've got to be agile, readyto change and also relying on
the team when you've gotproductions, sports games,
cultural activities you can't beacross them all so making it
clear hey look I'll go to thisone can you do that one I'll get
(19:50):
there for here but can you jumpin here and making sure it's not
just you it's sort of that teamapproach to managing the best of
a role that it is.
Eleisha (19:58):
So, kind of sharing that load
Richard (20:00):
Yeah,
Eleisha (20:00):
a little bit.
Richard (20:01):
definitely.
Eleisha (20:02):
Yeah. Lory, do you do the same?
Lori (20:04):
Probably one of the regrets that I do have from when
I started the role, I felt Ineeded to be everywhere with
everyone at every meeting sothat they could see I was there
and part of the conversationsand that quickly gets
overwhelming because there isjust so much on our plate that
we have to deal with on a dailybasis.
Eleisha (20:19):
Mm.
Lori (20:20):
So for my sanity, what was important to me was from those
one one conversations with thestaff, I could see there was a
very strong lack of transparencyin the school and communication
was a mess. So from day dot, Ihad to kind of establish some
clear guidelines and how we weregoing to communicate, share
information, where I findresources because that's a real
struggle when you're moving intoa school trying to navigate
(20:42):
what's existing there andfinding all that information
that you need at the drop of ahat. So putting that in place
for my sanity helped me adjustwhat was happening in the school
quickly. But yeah, definitely aregret not nutting out more time
for family and finding more of abalance and delegating as
Richard mentioned.
Eleisha (20:59):
Mm. That's very hard, eh, because you do want to do
everything,and you want to doeverything as well as you can.
Tony, do you agree?
Tony (21:07):
Yeah I mean echo Richard I'm I'm pretty lucky my wife is
an amazing support I mean youknow we kind of came here to
semi-retire grow vegetables gofishing and be hippies. She's
the nurse so she's the localrural nurse specialist which
means she's on call 24/7 7 dayson 7 days off and I'm here
sitting in the principal'soffice it's not that's not what
(21:27):
we intended to do but
Eleisha (21:29):
no.
Tony (21:29):
you know I think we're both good at supporting each
other. I'm pretty ruthless Imean I'm 60 now and I you know
when I leave on a Friday I'veleft on a Friday I come back on
a Monday that's my time and Ilive in Karamea, you know we can
go and walk the start of theHeaphy Track, go and hop on the
mountain bike and go fishing youknow all those, all those sorts
of things so I yeah I'mreasonably comfortable with the
(21:52):
work life balance that I havebut you could easily let this
become the main thing or theonly thing that you do because
as we said at the start thereare so many things and you know
there is a lot of life going onand this is an important job,
you know you're working withamazing people, you're working
with kids but it also is a jobthat you don't want to let
(22:14):
consume you and so absolutelyyou need to have the ability to
say that's it I'm finished, andyou know if it's if it is
absolutely life threateninglycrucial to staff or students
then of course you come and dostuff but if it's something that
someone's worried about on aFriday night it can wait till
Monday
Eleisha (22:33):
Yes, Lori said you know if you have those rules around
communication, you know, weemail between these times, don't
expect to reply from me over theweekend or whatever, makes a big
difference. Um, looking back,would you do anything
differently in your first 100days as a principal, if you
could start Lori is nodding.
Lori (22:54):
Oh, as I mentioned,
Eleisha (22:55):
Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
Lori (22:55):
I would definitely delegate more and not feel like
I had to be everywhere at once.But also I would definitely
recommend reaching out to thefinance and property people and
meet with some core staffmembers before you ever start
the school year. So there'sfewer surprises when you walk
into those very busy first fewweeks.
Eleisha (23:12):
Haha. Could advice, Richard?
Richard (23:14):
I think we've all touched on it getting caught up
in the immediacy of school, itjust happens when you get all
consumed, just continue you know,slow down. It's just reflecting
back where you're going in amillion miles an hour, gotta do
this, gotta do that, gotta, youknow, even though been in the
year, certainly just slowed downa bit to process. And, you know,
(23:35):
unless someone's life's at riskor something it can wait, it's
okay to wait till the followingand having your mind, I, you
know, waking up in the middle ofthe night, writing notes to
yourself, gotta do this, gottado that, gotta hold on, actually
need my sleep to function to bebetter for everybody else,
including, you know, your family.So those would be the same that,
(23:56):
and also, yes, you know, Loriwas talking about networks, very
lucky from onset, I wascontacted from the, the boys
school network, so lots ofprincipals getting in touch
saying welcome. This is thatreaching out now, collaborating
beautifully, and it's like, wow,this is fantastic. It's really
nice to have in the top of theSouth Secondry Principles
(24:17):
fantastic friends in the collegeschool space to just really nice
network of people who you canrely upon. And feeling confident,
it's okay not to know your handup and go, look, as we've all
said, you don't have the answers,but I'm certainly be able to get
that and be confident, andthat'll grow in another five, 10
years, you'll, you'll have thoseanswers and, you'll be passing
(24:38):
that on to somebody else.
Eleisha (24:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It's cool, eh? That kind of,
knowledge-sharing, Tony.
Tony (24:45):
Those networks and those connections and those supports
are absolutely crucial. Andthat's the, if you wanted
Eleisha (24:50):
Yeah.
Tony (24:50):
some advice to someone taking on the role is that lean
on them, you know, just leaninto it, find a mate. I mean,
I've got one Principal inparticular who I'll ring every
time if there's something andjust talk with her about how
it's all going and then I getthat advice. That's crucial
because you know, when I walkinto the staff room now,
sometimes the conversation stops,and I'm not used to that, you
(25:13):
know, I mean, I was always guyin the corner chatting away and
it's been that's been hardbecause I do. I go make my
coffee and I'll come and I'llwander around, but I just, I've
got to give space because I'mthe boss now, you know, and I
don't like, I don't ever usethat term. My predecessor used
to talk about his school and I'mnot comfortable with that. I
talk about our school, but youdo
Eleisha (25:35):
Yeah.
Tony (25:35):
have to acknowledge that your position has changed and
the way people interact with youhas changed, and I think maybe
that's a really crucial thing tokeep in mind is that no matter
who you are or how you think youinteract, it's a different role
to even being a deputy Principalwhen you're sitting in this
Eleisha (25:56):
Hmm.
Tony (25:56):
chair, there's stuff that comes with that, and I'm just
pleased I've had the yearsbehind me to be comfortable with
that. I think if I try to dothis when I was in the 40s or
50s that would have been a veryhard thing to cope with, but I
can just sort of see it for whatit is now and accept that that's
a change that's taken place.
Eleisha (26:15):
Yeah, and it is one of those challenges that happens
when you step into a managementrole, you know, the boss of
people who were previously yourpeers, which is, yeah, it's
quite a different, differentthing. That's great advice. Uh,
Lori, what advice would you giveto someone who's about to step
into their first principle role?
Lori (26:34):
Yeah, as Tony was saying, this role can be very isolating
and very lonely at times. Sodefinitely reach out to all
those networks. I have a firsttime principals messenger group
chat and it has been my lifesaver. So within minutes, you're
getting the answer back fromsomeone who's gone through the
same thing, has a template youcan borrow or just gives you
those words of support that youneed. So that's really been a
life saver for me over the years.So reaching out to all those
(26:57):
networks
Eleisha (26:58):
Hm.
Lori (26:58):
available to you really help out. Also, I would urge
that I know you want to be atschool every day but take every
opportunity to attend the PLD ornetwork
Eleisha (27:07):
Hm.
Lori (27:07):
meetings that are available to us. Another
principal reminded me the otherday when I was feeling guilty
that teachers get five CRT daysa term and we need to consider
how to we care and carve outthat time to recharge our
batteries, get inspired and makethose connections. So I would
just urge them to lean on theothers, learn from the
experienced principals aroundthem and set those boundaries in
(27:28):
place and know you don't have todo it alone. So if you have no
idea what you're doing, you justfake it till you make it and you
wear that first time principalscrown for as long as you can,
Eleisha (27:37):
Hahaha.
Lori (27:37):
I still pull it out all the time.
Eleisha (27:40):
You've, you've just started. Yeah. People have said
that
Richard (27:42):
Yeah.
Eleisha (27:43):
before. Haha. It's a good one. It's a good one.
Richard.
Richard (27:46):
Don't do it, no just joking,
Eleisha (27:50):
Haha.
Richard (27:51):
Dive in, get into it, it's, you know, I personally
feel so humbled and so lucky tobe in this position, we're
creating change and lookingafter the future, and we have a
real opportunity to, you know,work with our ākonga, our
communities and be changemerchants at the same so very,
very lucky. In that role, butagain, I think definitely is key
(28:13):
advice, protect your time,because if you're energy and
you're well-being, isn't there,how can you lead and be the best
that you can be.
Eleisha (28:20):
Hmm.
Richard (28:20):
And ultimately, your leadership is about the people,
their trust, their well-beingand their growth, where you've
got to be humming yourselfbefore you can offer others, so
block that two hours in yourtime table or block out your
half a day, and don't feelguilty. I know it's easier said
than done, and I still don't doit, but, but just put it in
(28:42):
there, get it in there, and,yeah, and enjoy the ride, enjoy
just the privileged positionthat we actually are in, it's
not for everybody, and it's aspecial place to be for sure.
Eleisha (28:53):
Um, it has been lovely speaking with you all. Thank you
very much. we'll take care andthank you again for
Lori (28:58):
For
Eleisha (28:58):
your
Lori (28:58):
the opportunity.
Eleisha (28:58):
time.
Lori (28:58):
It's been a pleasure meeting everyone.
Tony (29:00):
Thank you,
Eleisha (29:00):
See
Tony (29:00):
nice to meet you all.
Eleisha (29:01):
you later.
Tony (29:01):
See you later.
Eleisha (29:02):
In the next episode, Mārama's back, talking about
how educational leaders can movebeyond tick box compliance to
genuinely embed Te Tiriti oWaitangi principles into their
school culture. Mā te wā.
Kia ora, and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for aspiring and current seniorleaders and tumuaki in Aotearoa
New Zealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill,and first up, I have to
apologise for my voice. I havean immaculately timed cold. In
this episode, we're going to betalking about the first 100 days
of principalship, from buildingrelationships to navigating
(00:31):
unexpected challenges it can bea big change, but a rewarding
one. Let's crack into it. Lori,would do you mind starting off
by introducing yourself?
Lori (00:41):
Kia ora koutou, ko Lori Mravicich tōku ingoa. I am
tumuaki of Waiau Pā School.It's a beautiful semi-rural full
primary school in South Auckland,and I am now in my second year
of principalship.
Eleisha (00:52):
Fantastic. Tony.
Tony (00:53):
Kia ora koutou, ko Tony Baird tōku ingoa. I'm tumauki
at Karamea Area School. Bit
of context that is at the very,very top of the west coast of
the South It's unique, beautiful,isolated place and I am
literally just weeks into mysecond year as principal here.
Eleisha (01:13):
Wow, Richard.
Richard (01:14):
Kia koutou, Richard Washington tōku ingoa, uh,
tumuaki principal of NelsonCollege, and I've just completed
my first year as tumuaki here.
Eleisha (01:24):
I'm gonna start by asking you what surprised you
each most about the transitionfrom your previous role to
becoming a principal. Maybestart with you, Richard.
Richard (01:34):
What surprised me the most - probably when you're in
your other roles as a, a deputyor assistant, you're sort of
focused on certain portfoliosand areas, and then when you're
the tumuaki principal just thebreadth, across everything, and
then in particular aroundproperty and the bigger picture
around finances.
Eleisha (01:53):
Yeah. What about you, Lori?
Lori (01:55):
Yeah, uhm, I moved from a deputy principal position in a
state integrated school in the
Eleisha (01:59):
Mhmm.
Lori (01:59):
center of Pukekohe that had a high Pasifika and Asian
role, uhm, to leading asemi-rural state school that was
75% Pasifika, and I'm Pakeha,and 25% Māori role. So even
though it's only a 25-minutedrive away, it felt like I'd
stepped into a completelydifferent world, socially,
culturally, operationally. I hadto wrap my head around things
(02:19):
like bus networks, water safetyplans, and I have quickly
realised why redbands are anessential part of the
principal's toolkit in a ruralschool.
Eleisha (02:28):
ha.
Lori (02:28):
They all laughed at my little pink gumboots the first
week,
Eleisha (02:31):
Ha,
Lori (02:31):
uhm, but
Eleisha (02:31):
ha, ha.
Lori (02:31):
seriously, the change in school context and the community
expectations, that was allreally surprisingly very
different, and it took someadjusting to. I understood that
becoming a principal meanttaking on full responsibility,
but as Richard mentioned,navigating that reality every
day brought a kind of level ofpressure and complexity that
took some time for me to adaptto.
Eleisha (02:52):
I bet, I bet, what about you, Tony?
Tony (02:54):
Well, so a little bit of background, I had 10 years
teaching overseas and came backto a large school in
Christchurch for a year or two,decided I didn't want to be a
teacher anymore. Took some timeoff, worked at the University of
Canterbury. We had a propertyhere on the Coast and my wife
and I decided to move here in2019. I initially came to the
(03:16):
school to do some relief Englishteaching
Eleisha (03:19):
Ha,
Tony (03:20):
various things have happened along the way and so I
was a classroom teacher for twoor three years here. I was the
deputy principal, my immediatepredecessor was unwell for the
last part of his time here. Soalthough I've been appointed
principal for 12 months I'vebeen acting as principal for
about 18 months. And while I washead of secondary and then
(03:41):
deputy principal, a I think I'decho Richard's comments, is the
biggest change I guess is goingfrom feeling that you have a
pretty good handle on the areasthat you need to be responsible
for to suddenly everything, youknow, and you're absolutely
right. I mean I mean, I've beentalking during the interview to
the board and say look, you know,I think I'm a pretty good
classroom practitioner. I'mpretty good at managing
(04:01):
relationships with people. WhatI'm not good at is property and
finance and budgets and I'venever had to do them. And I'm
lucky, you know, you know, ourEO has been here for 20 years,
she brings in the SUE reports,you know. I'm developing an
understanding of that, but oneof the biggest changes. And
again, just things like buses,so you're at your desk in
Eleisha (04:20):
Mhmm.
Tony (04:20):
the morning, and some kid's playing up on the bus. And
there's next hour out of yourday gone. And it's just that
stuff. You don't know what'sgoing to walk through the door.
Eleisha (04:28):
Yeah, it's quite quite a quite a big change, eh? And
you mentioned, um, Tony, youmentioned relationships there.
So how did you approach buildingrelationships with the existing
staff in those crucial kind offirst weeks on the job? Um,
Richard.
Richard (04:46):
For me it was just being visible and being
accessible. I was here, thereand everywhere, I was in
department meetings, classrooms,out in the playgrounds, I was
making sure I had facultymorning teas lined up,
one-on-one meetings, just reallybuilding trust and showing a
genuine care and interest. So,you know for me relationships as
(05:08):
we're spoken about is key, andjust understanding what makes
this place tick, why this place
Eleisha (05:14):
Mhmm.
Richard (05:14):
is so important. And learning. Because a lot of
people in schools you knowwhether they've been there five
minutes or you know 20, 30 years,everyone has a story to tell and
a part to play and I, for me Ireally wanted to learn and
understand that, and make themunderstand I'm not here straight
away flip everything on his headI'm here to listen
Eleisha (05:32):
Yeah.
Richard (05:32):
take my figure out the challenges together and
basically be as a teamcollectively.
Eleisha (05:37):
Lory, did you take a similar approach?
Lori (05:40):
Oh look, building strong relationships was my top
priority coming in.I know whatimpact a positive school culture
can on a school, and I'm alsoseeing how damaging a toxic one
can be.
Eleisha (05:48):
Mhmm.
Lori (05:49):
So I made time in my first few days for one-on-one
conversations with every staffmember to gauge what their
current work expectations were,any concerns they had about the
current systems in place, whatthey valued in a leader, and
what they wanted from their workenvironment. I also had all the
staff complete DISC profiles, sothose profiles gave me some
valuable insights into eachperson's communication style.
(06:09):
For example, how do they want anemail replied to - short, sharp
to the point, or they want somefluffies at the beginning asking
Eleisha (06:14):
Mhmm. Ha,
Lori (06:14):
about their weekend,
Eleisha (06:15):
ha,
Lori (06:15):
makes a big difference to everyone, things like where the
workplace preference is, werethey a team player, like to work
in isolation, um and just theirlikely responses to different
situations. It was also great'cause it gave the individual
comparisons to my results, andthat helped me to understand how
I was going to work alongsideeach staff member, and I found
that really helpful indeveloping some strong working
(06:38):
relationships, especially withmy deputy principal, 'cause she
was brand new to the school justas I was. So we were both
adapting to this really newsituation. In addition, we
undertook collaborativeactivities, like the Culture
Science Cards, to explore and adefine define our school culture,
and just clarify what our sharedpriorities were going to be for
the year. Ultimately, it wasjust kind of important that they
saw me as approachable, open todialogue, and I think that was
(07:00):
going to be really important forme to get them on board with any
changes that I wanted to bringto the school.
Eleisha (07:06):
Definitely.
Tony (07:10):
Different situation for me because I was already here in
situ and had come through the,you know, the staff room. So I
had, you know, a pretty solidrelations with the knew how
different people ticked. And asI said before, it's a very small
group of people you're workingwith. So, you know, I mean, I
know all the kids by name
Eleisha (07:30):
Mhmm.
Tony (07:30):
and certainly with the staff, you know, how they how
they work. And for me, I've hadthat looking after the place,
keeping the hand on the tillerand hoping it was going the
right direction while mypredecessor was still in the
role. And I feel very much thatthat's what I'm continuing to do.
Um, in terms you know,relationships, my predecessor
(07:50):
used to talk about management bywalking around, by being present,
by being, you know, in theclassroom. This is a new build,
we've only been in this placefor three years so it's open
plan, so it's easy to walkaround and be visible. I'm
always out at interval and lunchtimes talking to the The biggest
change for me in terms ofrelationships was chatting with
(08:11):
one of my new principal supportpeople through Evaluation
Associates and, you know, I'drattled off what was going and
after about 15 minutes, he saidyeah, that's fine, but all
you're talking about is thesecondary school, the NCEA
results,
Eleisha (08:23):
Mhmm.
Tony (08:23):
the CAAs.He said what's happening in primary? And I
thought right. I need toconsciously decouple because
I've got a very capable DP and,and secondary team leader and uh,
I've got to learn what'shappening in the primary school,
Eleisha (08:34):
Mhmm.
Tony (08:34):
but I know nothing about structured literacy. So I've got
to start learning those things.Um, as the principal, I have to
sit in the primary team meetingequally weighty as the secondary
team meeting. And the beauty ofthis school is that we can start
that structured literacy thisyear and we'll still have those
kids when they're sitting theCAAs
Eleisha (08:52):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Tony (08:52):
and when level 3s. So we can really see that growth
coming through.
Eleisha (08:57):
That's awesome. And you would have had existing
relationships with the studentsand whānau, um, because you've
been there for a while, right?
Tony (09:04):
Yes.
Eleisha (09:05):
Yeah. So Richard, how did you go about building those
relationships, um, beyond, youknow, kind of getting out into
the playground and, and talkingto the kids?
Richard (09:15):
Yes, I guess for our context we have 1100 boys and
collectively with support near100, so it is the same
opportunity just getting up infront of the students, speaking
at assemblies, reinforcingvalues, again I was at the gate
in the morning at the gate inthe afternoon shaking, welcoming
(09:36):
boys to and from school,community events, getting into
the community as much aspossible, hosting informal like
drop-ins for parents to chat to,on parent teacher night just
being in the corridors availablefor them to connect with, um,
getting involved …and being onthe sideline of sports games,
uhm, I went on the bus recentlyfrom Nelson down to Christchurch
(09:57):
for an exchange and I ended upgetting to coach and manage one
of the teams which
Eleisha (10:01):
Oh, wow.
Richard (10:01):
getting back to grassroots was a real highlight
where I love that. And sometimesI think we get bogged down in
everything else and we need toturn back and actually, you know,
do the things we love and enjoylike we've spoken about, the
being present, doing what we
Eleisha (10:14):
Mhmm,
Richard (10:14):
initially in our early careers. So I think It's just
all those little things, yes,I'm principal, but I'm a human
being and I'm here to, you know,support and walk along this
journey at the same time andshow you it's okay to, you know,
drop your guard and be a humanbeing like like them and their
families.
Eleisha (10:31):
Yeah. And that makes a massive difference for parents
and, and for kids alike, okay.Um, Lori.
Lori (10:38):
Yeah, I think what we're all showing right now, no matter
the size of the school,relationships are the heart of
the school. So even with thesteep learning curve of the role,
like Richard, I made it apriority to be visible and
approachable. So out in theplayground every day, popping it
to classrooms regularly, makingsure to be the school gate
before and after school toconnect with the students and
the whānau,having a meet theprincipal barbecue at the
(11:00):
beginning of the year, beingpart of the PTA meetings. I
think that consistency helped tobuild trust
Eleisha (11:06):
Mhmm.
Lori (11:06):
and showed I genuinely cared about being part of the
community. I also made it a goalto learn all 340 students names
by the end of the term two. Soin my view, one of the quickest
ways to kind of connect with thestudent is by greeting them by
Eleisha (11:17):
Y.
Lori (11:17):
name. It shows you kind of see them and that they matter.
And then right away, you've justgot that connection.
Eleisha (11:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Can you, um, tell me about a significant
challenge if you had one at allthat you faced in your first 100
days and, and how you navigatedthat, maybe start with you, Lori
this time, you look like youhave something to say.
Lori (11:38):
See me nodding. I inherited quite a tricky
situation. One of the biggestchallenges I faced early on was
the school's financial situation.I knew things weren't in great
shape when I applied, but beinga DP, you don't really
understand the core of it tilyou get into the position. And
reality hit hard when I saw justhow much work the budget needed
(11:59):
and the position the school wasin. We were in a really tough
spot. And on top of that, I hadto manage surplus staffing with
our support
Eleisha (12:05):
Oh
Lori (12:05):
staff
Eleisha (12:05):
my
Lori (12:05):
and that is
Eleisha (12:05):
gosh.
Lori (12:06):
not an easy process to step into. And it meant I really
had to quickly build myfinancial leadership skills. So
thankfully I had the supportfrom the Ministry's School
Finance Advisors and big shoutout to EdTech Financial Services,
who came and helped me tounderstand every line of the
budget so that we could redo theentire thing and walking into
school and putting a moratoriumon all spending was far from
(12:29):
ideal, but it was necessary. SoI had to kind of navigate some
difficult conversations, allwhile trying to be upfront and
transparent with the staff andthe board about where we were at
and what needed to happen to digourselves out of this hole that
I'd found myself in when Istarted.
Eleisha (12:44):
Oh, wow. That's a great introduction to your school.
Lori (12:47):
Don't even get me started property issues, yeah.
Eleisha (12:51):
What about you, Tony?
Tony (12:53):
I started here, the school was being rebuilt. So it's one
of the post-World War II designsand it's been rebuilt as a
modern learning environment withthe big, you know, open space.
And then when we came into thisnew a lot of the staff were not
happy with what they were cominginto, they hadn't been bought
(13:13):
along, it was had been imposedon them, and there was a lot of,
kind of leftover grievances thatpeople had.And so trying to
work through that with peopleand saying, look, at the end of
the day, if we are here for thekids, this is the space that
we've got, and we've just got tomake it work. And what can we do?
(13:33):
How can we address the issuethat you have? And the other
thing for me, talking about sortof harking back to the community
question. As I said, yes, I haveplenty of connections
understanding of people in thecommunity, but we also, because
we are so small, you can't goanywhere without running into
parents and students. Andthere's a force we're
supermarkets and I cannot gothere and buy milk and bread
(13:55):
without talking or meetingsomebody and you have to
understand that that's how itworks. We also have parents who
are staff members um and parentswho are staff members feel that
they can talk about things inhave it important to think that
not the parents in other biggerschools just simply don't have.
And so that's been quiteinteresting to manage,
particularly when it comes tocontentious things, like
(14:17):
selection of sports teams Andpeople feel that they've got the
right to email me or come andsit down and tell me
Eleisha (14:23):
Yes.
Tony (14:23):
what we should be doing. And it's like, okay, are you
walking in with your parent haton or your teacher's hat on at
the moment? And where are theboundaries around that. And
that's also true of boardmembers who are also parents. So
that's been the most challenging,but for me is actually managing
those relationships and justdealing with that sort of
(14:48):
inherited issue about the newbuilding that
Eleisha (14:50):
Yeah.
Tony (14:50):
we're in.
Eleisha (14:51):
Yeah. There sure are some big challenges. They're
Richard.
Richard (14:56):
Yes, I guess probably coming in, it was expectations
around, you know, you had a biggroup saying they were hoping
for immediate change. And thensome who were just, you know,
protective of tradition and that,so trying to navigate where you
land, what you're going to doand how you're going to do
things. So again, back to thatrelationships, trying to listen,
(15:16):
is anything urgent, can itactually wait because there's no
need for making a change forchange shakes when you have no
idea how
Eleisha (15:22):
Yeah.
Richard (15:22):
things operate and that's probably difficult with a
big staff with so many different
facets going great we'll be ableto get this and let's get a
meeting in straight away becausenew kid on the block. Just again,
taking a minute to heed stockand just wait and not feel
rushed and panicked into makingchanges because of people just
necessarily waiting where it'sfantastic to see because when
(15:43):
you have people wanting to thatyou know you've got a great
staff because full of ideas,full of innovation, full of
creativity and that's what youwant within your
Eleisha (15:51):
Definitely. But it is just taking a moment to take a
breath. Then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.So you've already answered this
question, Richard. But, um, Tonyand Lory, how did you manage any
kind of pressure to make changesin that first initial period
before you kind of understoodthe school's culture, Lori?
Lori (16:10):
I found this really challenging given the unique
makeup of our school community.So on one hand, we had this
rural farming families with deepgenerational ties to the school
going back four or fivegenerations. And on the other, I
had increasing number of newurban families moving into these
new housing developments withinthe area. S there were two very
different cultures coexisting inthe same space in the school.
(16:32):
And at times, the tension wasvery noticeable. A perfect
example that differences wouldbe calf club. So this was almost
comical. So in the surveys, Iwould send out around their
feelings around calf club andits organisation every response
was 50/50. Ditch it.
Eleisha (16:49):
Mhmm.
Lori (16:49):
Keep it. It was it was quite entertaining for me to see.
But that was also a challengebecause you have to try to
strike that balance. So respectthose long-held traditions, but
find ways to modernize the eventand make it welcoming and
relevant for all the whānauthat are at the school. More
broadly, with all the otherchanges happening around the
school, I try to consult aswidely as I could and provide
(17:11):
clear explanations around thewhy behind the decisions I was
making. But I also had to learnthat I was never going to please
everyone. And once I could letgo of that, I was able to just
focus on making decisions that Iknew were in the best interests
of the children and the schoolas a whole.
Eleisha (17:26):
Yeah. Tony.
Tony (17:27):
The biggest takeaways, and I agree with Richard, is and
Lori, taking time, that I don'thave to give you an answer now,
even if you're banging the table.It's like, no, I need to think
about this, and to consult, andwhat I've found incredibly
helpful, so that theprofessional associations, we
have a top of the South Islandarea schools and then I have
(17:49):
people like Steve Beck, who's aministry advisor and the
Evaluation Associates. And youknow, just a phone call or two
and say, hey, this is what'sgoing on. This is what I think.
What do you reckon? And beingable to take that time, make
that decision, and then I think,as Lori was saying, and I've
said to staff a couple of timeswhen there's need to have those
conversations look, I'll alwaystell you why
(18:10):
and the reasons for why and ifyou don't like it, that's that's
unfortunate but that's why I'vedone
Eleisha (18:16):
Yeah.
Tony (18:16):
it. And you're right you simply cannot make everybody
happy all the time. and that'sbeen hugely helpful to me
because I think previously you'dexpect that, oh, someone's upset,
you've got to do something aboutit but no in actual fact you're
much better to take thinkconsult and then give reasons.
Eleisha (18:32):
Definitely. Um, did you put any systems or processes in
place around yourself, in yourown of time management, to help
manage just how overwhelming, um,stepping into that role
initially is, did you doanything around that, Richard?
Richard (18:47):
Yeah. Definitely I think I'm quite lucky. I've got
a very supportive wife who is ateacher and understands the
roles of a headship and bits andpieces so making sure that we've
got family time blocked out aswell. I've got a young family
but that's in the calendar aswell is really important, and
(19:07):
during the day I think workingwith my EA to block times for
just strategic thinking orcatching up with my leadership
team. It's really important toget sound bites and making sure
that you know we're on the samepage, is everyone okay with bits
and pieces because exactly whateveryone's spoken about today
you know in our roles you'resinging along beautifully and
(19:29):
then boom fa something comes inyour inbox or someone knocks at
the door and say hey we've gotsomething and everything stops.
to you've got to be agile, readyto change and also relying on
the team when you've gotproductions, sports games,
cultural activities you can't beacross them all so making it
clear hey look I'll go to thisone can you do that one I'll get
(19:50):
there for here but can you jumpin here and making sure it's not
just you it's sort of that teamapproach to managing the best of
a role that it is.
Eleisha (19:58):
So, kind of sharing that load
Richard (20:00):
Yeah,
Eleisha (20:00):
a little bit.
Richard (20:01):
definitely.
Eleisha (20:02):
Yeah. Lory, do you do the same?
Lori (20:04):
Probably one of the regrets that I do have from when
I started the role, I felt Ineeded to be everywhere with
everyone at every meeting sothat they could see I was there
and part of the conversationsand that quickly gets
overwhelming because there isjust so much on our plate that
we have to deal with on a dailybasis.
Eleisha (20:19):
Mm.
Lori (20:20):
So for my sanity, what was important to me was from those
one one conversations with thestaff, I could see there was a
very strong lack of transparencyin the school and communication
was a mess. So from day dot, Ihad to kind of establish some
clear guidelines and how we weregoing to communicate, share
information, where I findresources because that's a real
struggle when you're moving intoa school trying to navigate
(20:42):
what's existing there andfinding all that information
that you need at the drop of ahat. So putting that in place
for my sanity helped me adjustwhat was happening in the school
quickly. But yeah, definitely aregret not nutting out more time
for family and finding more of abalance and delegating as
Richard mentioned.
Eleisha (20:59):
Mm. That's very hard, eh, because you do want to do
everything,and you want to doeverything as well as you can.
Tony, do you agree?
Tony (21:07):
Yeah I mean echo Richard I'm I'm pretty lucky my wife is
an amazing support I mean youknow we kind of came here to
semi-retire grow vegetables gofishing and be hippies. She's
the nurse so she's the localrural nurse specialist which
means she's on call 24/7 7 dayson 7 days off and I'm here
sitting in the principal'soffice it's not that's not what
(21:27):
we intended to do but
Eleisha (21:29):
no.
Tony (21:29):
you know I think we're both good at supporting each
other. I'm pretty ruthless Imean I'm 60 now and I you know
when I leave on a Friday I'veleft on a Friday I come back on
a Monday that's my time and Ilive in Karamea, you know we can
go and walk the start of theHeaphy Track, go and hop on the
mountain bike and go fishing youknow all those, all those sorts
of things so I yeah I'mreasonably comfortable with the
(21:52):
work life balance that I havebut you could easily let this
become the main thing or theonly thing that you do because
as we said at the start thereare so many things and you know
there is a lot of life going onand this is an important job,
you know you're working withamazing people, you're working
with kids but it also is a jobthat you don't want to let
(22:14):
consume you and so absolutelyyou need to have the ability to
say that's it I'm finished, andyou know if it's if it is
absolutely life threateninglycrucial to staff or students
then of course you come and dostuff but if it's something that
someone's worried about on aFriday night it can wait till
Monday
Eleisha (22:33):
Yes, Lori said you know if you have those rules around
communication, you know, weemail between these times, don't
expect to reply from me over theweekend or whatever, makes a big
difference. Um, looking back,would you do anything
differently in your first 100days as a principal, if you
could start Lori is nodding.
Lori (22:54):
Oh, as I mentioned,
Eleisha (22:55):
Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
Lori (22:55):
I would definitely delegate more and not feel like
I had to be everywhere at once.But also I would definitely
recommend reaching out to thefinance and property people and
meet with some core staffmembers before you ever start
the school year. So there'sfewer surprises when you walk
into those very busy first fewweeks.
Eleisha (23:12):
Haha. Could advice, Richard?
Richard (23:14):
I think we've all touched on it getting caught up
in the immediacy of school, itjust happens when you get all
consumed, just continue you know,slow down. It's just reflecting
back where you're going in amillion miles an hour, gotta do
this, gotta do that, gotta, youknow, even though been in the
year, certainly just slowed downa bit to process. And, you know,
(23:35):
unless someone's life's at riskor something it can wait, it's
okay to wait till the followingand having your mind, I, you
know, waking up in the middle ofthe night, writing notes to
yourself, gotta do this, gottado that, gotta hold on, actually
need my sleep to function to bebetter for everybody else,
including, you know, your family.So those would be the same that,
(23:56):
and also, yes, you know, Loriwas talking about networks, very
lucky from onset, I wascontacted from the, the boys
school network, so lots ofprincipals getting in touch
saying welcome. This is thatreaching out now, collaborating
beautifully, and it's like, wow,this is fantastic. It's really
nice to have in the top of theSouth Secondry Principles
(24:17):
fantastic friends in the collegeschool space to just really nice
network of people who you canrely upon. And feeling confident,
it's okay not to know your handup and go, look, as we've all
said, you don't have the answers,but I'm certainly be able to get
that and be confident, andthat'll grow in another five, 10
years, you'll, you'll have thoseanswers and, you'll be passing
(24:38):
that on to somebody else.
Eleisha (24:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It's cool, eh? That kind of,
knowledge-sharing, Tony.
Tony (24:45):
Those networks and those connections and those supports
are absolutely crucial. Andthat's the, if you wanted
Eleisha (24:50):
Yeah.
Tony (24:50):
some advice to someone taking on the role is that lean
on them, you know, just leaninto it, find a mate. I mean,
I've got one Principal inparticular who I'll ring every
time if there's something andjust talk with her about how
it's all going and then I getthat advice. That's crucial
because you know, when I walkinto the staff room now,
sometimes the conversation stops,and I'm not used to that, you
(25:13):
know, I mean, I was always guyin the corner chatting away and
it's been that's been hardbecause I do. I go make my
coffee and I'll come and I'llwander around, but I just, I've
got to give space because I'mthe boss now, you know, and I
don't like, I don't ever usethat term. My predecessor used
to talk about his school and I'mnot comfortable with that. I
talk about our school, but youdo
Eleisha (25:35):
Yeah.
Tony (25:35):
have to acknowledge that your position has changed and
the way people interact with youhas changed, and I think maybe
that's a really crucial thing tokeep in mind is that no matter
who you are or how you think youinteract, it's a different role
to even being a deputy Principalwhen you're sitting in this
Eleisha (25:56):
Hmm.
Tony (25:56):
chair, there's stuff that comes with that, and I'm just
pleased I've had the yearsbehind me to be comfortable with
that. I think if I try to dothis when I was in the 40s or
50s that would have been a veryhard thing to cope with, but I
can just sort of see it for whatit is now and accept that that's
a change that's taken place.
Eleisha (26:15):
Yeah, and it is one of those challenges that happens
when you step into a managementrole, you know, the boss of
people who were previously yourpeers, which is, yeah, it's
quite a different, differentthing. That's great advice. Uh,
Lori, what advice would you giveto someone who's about to step
into their first principle role?
Lori (26:34):
Yeah, as Tony was saying, this role can be very isolating
and very lonely at times. Sodefinitely reach out to all
those networks. I have a firsttime principals messenger group
chat and it has been my lifesaver. So within minutes, you're
getting the answer back fromsomeone who's gone through the
same thing, has a template youcan borrow or just gives you
those words of support that youneed. So that's really been a
life saver for me over the years.So reaching out to all those
(26:57):
networks
Eleisha (26:58):
Hm.
Lori (26:58):
available to you really help out. Also, I would urge
that I know you want to be atschool every day but take every
opportunity to attend the PLD ornetwork
Eleisha (27:07):
Hm.
Lori (27:07):
meetings that are available to us. Another
principal reminded me the otherday when I was feeling guilty
that teachers get five CRT daysa term and we need to consider
how to we care and carve outthat time to recharge our
batteries, get inspired and makethose connections. So I would
just urge them to lean on theothers, learn from the
experienced principals aroundthem and set those boundaries in
(27:28):
place and know you don't have todo it alone. So if you have no
idea what you're doing, you justfake it till you make it and you
wear that first time principalscrown for as long as you can,
Eleisha (27:37):
Hahaha.
Lori (27:37):
I still pull it out all the time.
Eleisha (27:40):
You've, you've just started. Yeah. People have said
that
Richard (27:42):
Yeah.
Eleisha (27:43):
before. Haha. It's a good one. It's a good one.
Richard.
Richard (27:46):
Don't do it, no just joking,
Eleisha (27:50):
Haha.
Richard (27:51):
Dive in, get into it, it's, you know, I personally
feel so humbled and so lucky tobe in this position, we're
creating change and lookingafter the future, and we have a
real opportunity to, you know,work with our ākonga, our
communities and be changemerchants at the same so very,
very lucky. In that role, butagain, I think definitely is key
(28:13):
advice, protect your time,because if you're energy and
you're well-being, isn't there,how can you lead and be the best
that you can be.
Eleisha (28:20):
Hmm.
Richard (28:20):
And ultimately, your leadership is about the people,
their trust, their well-beingand their growth, where you've
got to be humming yourselfbefore you can offer others, so
block that two hours in yourtime table or block out your
half a day, and don't feelguilty. I know it's easier said
than done, and I still don't doit, but, but just put it in
(28:42):
there, get it in there, and,yeah, and enjoy the ride, enjoy
just the privileged positionthat we actually are in, it's
not for everybody, and it's aspecial place to be for sure.
Eleisha (28:53):
Um, it has been lovely speaking with you all. Thank you
very much. we'll take care andthank you again for
Lori (28:58):
For
Eleisha (28:58):
your
Lori (28:58):
the opportunity.
Eleisha (28:58):
time.
Lori (28:58):
It's been a pleasure meeting everyone.
Tony (29:00):
Thank you,
Eleisha (29:00):
See
Tony (29:00):
nice to meet you all.
Eleisha (29:01):
you later.
Tony (29:01):
See you later.
Eleisha (29:02):
In the next episode, Mārama's back, talking about
how educational leaders can movebeyond tick box compliance to
genuinely embed Te Tiriti oWaitangi principles into their
school culture. Mā te wā.
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