February 12, 2024 • 59 mins
So...I Married Peter Pan
Stephanie shares her journey with host, Brenda Kradolfer, of discovering the skills that transformed her relationship. She talks about the if-then trap and how she realized that achieving her goals didn't bring happiness to her marriage. Stephanie also discusses the roller coaster nature of her relationship and the doubts and heartbreak she experienced during her fertility journey. She then explains how she found The Empowered Wife and the initial resistance she had towards self-care. Stephanie highlights the importance of letting go of control and the transformative power of self-care in her relationship. In this conversation, Stephanie shares her journey of discovering the joy of dance and how it became a form of self-care for her. She talks about the challenges she faced initially and how she persevered to reach a point of relaxation and fulfillment. Stephanie also highlights the importance of creating connections and finding a sense of community through dance. She emphasizes the need to evaluate and prioritize self-care, as well as the power of processing and honest reflection. Stephanie shares how practicing self-care has allowed her to be present and enjoy quality time with her family. She encourages others to experiment with self-care and find what brings them genuine happiness.
#SoIMarriedPeterPan #TheEmpoweredWife #SelfCareSunday #DanceYourStressAway #RelationshipGoals #FertilityJourney #LettingGoOfControl #FindingJoyInDance #CommunityAndConnection #HonestReflection #QualityTimeWithFamily #ExperimentWithSelfCare #GenuineHappiness #IfThenTrap #RollerCoasterRelationship
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
The following program is powered by Ridethe Wave Media.
You are now listening to The RestoredWife.
Welcome to the podcast where we discoverthe relationship preventative medicine you
didn't know you needed and help you createthe relationship and life you dreamed of
(00:23):
when you first said yes to your husband.
I'm Brenda Krodolfer, a certified LauraDoyle relationship coach.
Ready to chat about relationships today?
Hi Stephanie.
Hi Brenda, yay!
Yes, you said that kind of loaded, butyes, I'm ready.
(00:43):
I'm excited.
I'm on board.
Well, I'm so glad that you're here with metoday.
We're gonna just be chatting.
We're gonna be talking about how, youknow, where our relationships were, where
they are now, what changed, how we foundthe stuff that we use today.
(01:04):
And yeah, so just first tell me a littlebit about you.
That's definitely well.
Yeah, I mean, I have been out in Coloradosince for like over 20 years now, and I
love being outside.
I'm an outdoorsy person.
And I met my husband when I was still incollege.
And we just fell in love adventuringtogether.
(01:26):
Just, you know, like, we would be watchinga movie on Saturday night.
And
eating Tony's pizza, you know, the frozenpizzas, and be looking at a, you know,
like a guidebook and be like, oh, let's gocamping here.
And we would leave like at 10 o'clock atnight.
Those type of, you know, just so carefreeand so fun.
(01:49):
And yeah, we just, we've been together for18 years and we've been married for 13.
And a big part of our relationship, we hada fertility journey for about three years.
We got married and right away I was like,I want to start a family.
And it took us a while.
And I think what a big part of the skillsand getting into relationship coaching for
(02:14):
me was just, I, I did that.
If this happens, then I'll be happy.
I did the if and then game a lot.
And so I just, I had all my eggs in thatone basket to have babies.
And you know, we were
We were fortunate, we did, we had twinsand they were happy and healthy.
And I thought, yeah, I finally like, I gotit, you know?
(02:37):
But I was miserable.
And I know I'm gonna blow your mind rightnow.
It did not help the marriage.
I finally got what I wanted.
But then, you know, my marriage was justfalling apart and I didn't know what to do
and felt really lost and started to lookfor some help, for some support.
(02:58):
Yeah.
Okay.
I loved what you called the if then trapor the if then game.
I can so relate to that.
Yeah.
Just thinking like, well now when I lookback, it's okay.
I had everything that I wanted and I wastotally unhappy.
Like it was like, what's the next thing?
Which I still work through today.
(03:19):
It's I love buying houses.
So I think that's fun.
And it gives, I think it just distracts meand it like, it gives me something to
really focus all my attention on.
But it's also like a crutch, I think.
It's if I have this, if it all looks acertain way, then I can relax.
And I've actually found that, I foundpartly to be true, like when I'm
(03:42):
fulfilling on my own desires and likegoing after things that I really, really
want, or like our living room, we read itour living room and it does, it feels like
a lot better because it's finally a littlebit more what I want.
But anyway, just totally relate to that.
And...
Yeah, hearing your journey go from superfun, spontaneous relationship with your
husband or, you know, boyfriend, right?
(04:04):
It was like, I love the Tony's pizza andjust you're free, right?
We can just do whatever we want.
And there's nobody, there's nobody that'sgoing to stop us, you know, like we're
unstoppable.
And then to come into this place wherelike something is getting in the way of
the thing you want to do.
Like you can't.
You know, like you could just pick up andgo hiking.
(04:26):
It was kind of crazy or go on a trip or anadventure.
But then I hear that like you were in thisfertility journey where you wanted
something and it wasn't happening.
Just how painful that must've been.
And then to have it all kind of work out,but then to look back and, and think,
(04:47):
well, yeah, but now my marriage is inshambles or I got this thing at the
expense of my marriage.
Yeah, that's a really good way of puttingit.
I got this at the expense of my marriagebecause I didn't make my marriage a
priority.
And yeah, it was a sad time.
It was a really lonely time too.
Looking back on it, you know, I had thesetwins and I was nursing them and I had
(05:11):
these goals.
I like, there were so many shoulds on myvision too of how this should look.
And, you know, I was like, I'm going tonurse my kids for a year.
And that was like a blur doing that, youknow,
putting that pressure on myself and justthere was some heartbreak in there.
There was definitely I remember during ourfertility journey.
(05:33):
I remember we were doing inseminations,the IUIs, and during the fifth one.
You know, you're just you're such ahostage in that situation.
I just remember being on the hospital bed,like exposed in a, you know, terrible gown
and my husband just sitting next to meand.
there's a point where the doctor, it'svery quick procedure, but he will prop up
(05:57):
the bed so your feet are up in the air andyour head is tipped backwards and you're
using everything you can to get pregnant,right?
Use the gravity, use the, you know.
Right.
And so I was doing that and I was just, Ijust had this moment of feeling so
helpless and so out of control andexhausted.
And I just started crying and.
(06:20):
For so long, I was like, I'll just pull upmy bootstraps.
I'll keep pushing through.
It's going to be fine.
And finally, like when those floodgatesopened, I couldn't close them.
And my husband was right there and he justtold me, Brenda, he was like, Steph, be
quiet.
Other people are going to hear you in thewaiting room.
We're in this, you know, a fertilityclinic.
And it was that was the first bigheartbreak in our relationship where I was
(06:44):
just like, who is this guy?
I married the wrong person.
I married Peter Pan, he's never going togrow up.
And this was, you know, is this the rightchoice to even want to have a baby with
this guy?
It was really like all the question markswere going on, all the doubt.
And fifth time was a charm though.
We got pregnant.
(07:06):
Was it this time you're describing?
It was this time.
We, you know, left that fertility clinicafter.
I remember just counting the stripes on mysocks with my feet tipped up on that bed
because my husband wasn't helping me calmdown.
And I was like, all right, I was wearingthese brown smart wool socks with orange,
blue and tan stripes.
(07:26):
Like I can see it still, all differentwidths.
And yeah, like I just see it.
And by the time I calmed down and we hadthe green light to leave the clinic, I got
in my car and my husband got in his carand we just went separate directions.
I checked into a hotel room that night.
Oh, Stephanie, so heartbreaking.
Right?
(07:47):
Oh, it was just, I have the chills talkingabout it because I just go right back to
it.
Just that feeling of like, oh yeah, justdoubt and fear and heartbreak.
Yeah, oh, I can, oh man, even when yousaid it, like when you was like, Steph,
calm down, I was like, who is this guy?
(08:07):
You know, like even I'm- Right.
I'm seeing that, right?
Oh, but I can so relate to it at the sametime.
It's like, it's every time my husbandopened his mouth, you know, like it was
like, who is this guy and like, where doeshe come off and what it's like
bewildering.
Interesting though, that in that momentthat you like really just broke down.
Yeah.
(08:28):
That was the time that it all worked.
Does that, have you ever thought aboutthat?
I, you know.
I've thought not exactly like that.
And I kind of love that because I believe,you know, we're meant to be together.
And I always, I always wanted to be withhim.
Even when we were going through like thesehard times and there was a couple more
(08:49):
heartbreaks, I never had two feet out.
Maybe I was on the fence, but I neverpacked the bags.
I was never, you know, there was like,even when I threatened divorce Brenda and
my husband came in and you know, we wouldtalk about getting divorced and the kids
and.
I never, it was never realistic to me.
It was a threat.
(09:10):
And it was kind of like that, man, like aninja throwing star, like something I
would keep in my back pocket as a weaponthat if our fight got to that point, I'd
be like, wow, you know, throw out thatdivorce weapon and yeah, it was, it was
just tough for a while.
Yeah.
So was it kind of like, you knew that ifyou threw out the divorce word, maybe he
(09:32):
would like shape up or.
Well, I attempted that, right?
I sort of just ultimatum.
But really what would happen is I wouldthrow out that divorce, that weapon, and
he would just put his hands up in the airand be like, I'm done.
Like, I, you know, it would be kind oflike the end of the fight.
(09:55):
And there were times too where we'd befighting in the kitchen, you know, and the
kids are like clipped in and they're highchairs around the island and we'd be
fighting.
I'd be the dignified one that would belike, we can't fight in front of the kids,
you know?
And like somehow I was like the good onein that.
And I mean, looking back, I'm just, I'mgoing to share everything with you, but
(10:19):
I'm cringing inside.
I'm totally cringing.
Yeah.
Oh, I can relate to that.
If I'm not careful, if I go back tocertain things, I will start dwelling on
them and it'll just suck me back into itif I'm not careful.
And yeah.
It's painful to go back to that placewhere things were like just on the rocks,
(10:41):
I guess, is, you know, it's such a simpleway of saying things, but it doesn't, it
feels awful.
And it's like, when is this, when is thisgoing to end or is this ever going to
change?
I feel like that makes, and when you saythat too, the thing that was really
confusing in my marriage is that we hadreally good times too.
It was like a roller coaster, right?
(11:02):
Like you said,
when's this going to end?
And that's what it felt like.
It felt like a ride I was on because wewould have, we would have great times
together and then it would just godownhill and it'd be like, you know,
abort, abort.
And so it was, yeah, it was justconfusing.
I didn't know when I talked to my mentors,when I talked to, you know, people that
(11:23):
have been in relationships for 30 yearsand even my big sister and stuff, they
would, I remember even the first year ofmarriage, people being like marriage is
hard work.
marriage takes two, it's communication.
And I was like, why do people do thisthen?
What's the deal?
Like I married my adventure partner, Imarried this guy who's so in love with and
(11:44):
like, why are things changing?
So yeah, just that roller coaster ride,man, it could be fun, but it was brutal
when it came down.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
That's yeah.
I can so relate to that too, that we hadreally good times also.
There were times when we're like, we'rethe coolest couple in this room.
(12:06):
Look at everybody.
They all look lame.
They're sitting far apart and we'relaughing with each other and having a good
time.
You know?
And then, yeah, the next day, mine isalways like, he'd come home from work and
I'm exhausted from these two kids and likeno social interaction, right?
Now I'm like, okay, maybe I should have, Icould have done something differently, but
(12:26):
I just felt trapped.
I didn't know.
I really put it all on him.
It's his responsibility to make sure thatI'm, I have the social interaction I need
for the day, you know, those kinds ofthings.
But yeah, so it was like those kinds ofsituations I feel can drag out for a
really long time too, because it's like,all right, this stays, you know, maybe
this day will be better or I don't know,you just get in a flow too.
(12:48):
You get crapped on the ride, maybe.
Yeah, that's
I mean, when you talk about your husbandcoming home from work, I can really relate
to that too as a stay at home mom.
And my husband, what happened for us waslike, my husband would come home and he
would idle in the driveway and I could atour old house, like I could see his
headlights and you know, then he wouldcome into our house and I would like meet
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him at the door and you know, like what'sgoing on and kind of have that.
Did you bring me flowers?
Or like, did you do anything nice for mewhile I'm like slaving away?
I had some expectations on him.
But what happened, I would just see hisheadlights and he eventually would come in
the house.
What started happening was he would gointo the workshop after getting home.
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You know, he'd turn off the truck and hewould go into his workshop.
And we had a fridge in there and maybehe'd have a couple beers.
Maybe he would change the tube on a tirefor biking.
you know, and then he would stop at a baror a restaurant or at a friend's house on
the way home.
And he would just, my thought process waslike, okay, he doesn't want to come home.
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So maybe I can make things easier at homefor him when he gets home.
Like, I'll start doing more around thehouse.
Like even I was taking care of those kidsand like making dinners and cleaning the
home.
But I was like, I can stay in the house.
I can move along.
I can.
when I would see him have a hole in hiskeen hiking boots, I'd be like, oh, I'll
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just order a new pair for him.
I know he likes his brand.
So I took over like just doing everything.
And I had no idea I was pushing himfurther and further away.
Like the more helpful I was, the more ourrelationship just turned into like kind of
that smothering mother thing, which I hadno idea I was doing.
(14:39):
My intentions were so good.
making it easier for him.
Come home, man.
Yeah, drink your beer in the house.
Yeah, I'm here.
Let's hang out.
I know this is getting on his page alittle bit right now, but I wasn't that
fun to come home to Brenda.
Like, I wasn't, I wasn't like happy.
(15:02):
I wasn't, you know, I hadn't done anythingduring the day, like fun to tell him
about.
I wasn't bringing anything besides here'smy chore list.
And, you know.
here's what I've accomplished.
You should love me for what I'm doing.
Yes, yes, of course you should, right?
Yeah, so I'm doing everything.
(15:24):
Yeah, so buying him new boots, you know,doing the fix this stuff around the house,
mowing the lawn, adding more onto yourto-do list while you're like nursing these
babies and tending to them full-time,right?
To their every beck and call, I'm sure.
Especially with your mom.
(15:45):
That didn't make you happier, I'm sensing.
No, I mean, I think I was happy being amom and I knew that was something in my
core.
Like I was meant to be a mother and I'm sograteful that I am.
I just had this picture of what it shouldlook like and it was not matching up.
(16:07):
Yeah, yeah, so relatable.
Isn't that funny?
Like I've been thinking about that a lot.
Like my kids are past this stage, like myyoungest is seven.
And so we've moved on from the toddlerbaby phase.
And I can look back and honestly say thatwas my favorite time.
(16:27):
I loved having a baby.
I loved having toddlers.
They were adorable.
And yes, I'm not in it anymore.
So it's easy to forget about, you know,the hard part.
But I think it was that I was adding allthis other stuff on.
And also just had all these expectationsabout it, around it, which I think you did
a really good job describing too.
(16:49):
Like if I just do more here.
And it's funny too, because there werethings that I would do that brought me a
lot of joy.
Sometimes a home improvement project, Iwould just shut the kids off.
I'm going to put trim around my windowsbecause that sounds fun to me.
And I just let everything else go.
You know, like I didn't worry about.
the laundry and the stuff.
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And I was like happy and like my husbandwould come home and I would be like in the
middle of my project and I'd be proud ofmyself for what I had done and he would
praise what I was doing.
And so I learned a lot from that.
But then I also had this like secretresentment that like he wasn't the
handyman around the house, that he didn'tlike to do these jobs, that I always had
(17:30):
to teach him how to do things.
That was kind of our dynamic.
Okay.
So then I even got lost once I startedpracticing the skills we kind of mentioned
at one point in this.
It was like I stopped doing everythingagain, but really everything.
Like I stopped housework and things thatactually did bring me joy, but that I
(17:50):
didn't know were even a source of joybecause they were tied up in the
resentment.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So tell me, like, what, so you said kindof towards the end of the snippet of your
story that you shared that, you know, you.
finally decided like something's got togive.
And you talk to people, you talk to yourrelationship mentors who just kind of said
(18:13):
marriage is hard work.
And I remember hearing like all theconventional marriage advice, you know?
And I just thought it sounded lame.
And I was like, I don't think it has to bethat way.
That was kind of my thing.
I was like, I think we're gonna bedifferent.
We were to some extent, like we were insome ways, but then other things were
like, we knew communication was important,but I-
(18:35):
Honestly, I sucked at communication.
Like, both women are kind of supposed tobe good at communicating.
Like, I just shoved it all down and Ididn't even know what I was feeling.
And I would just be angry so fast, but Ididn't want to blow up at my husband.
I didn't have that in me.
I just would cram it down and hate myselfsomehow.
Gosh, that's so painful.
(18:56):
Yeah.
It was, you know, but it's all stemmingfrom the same source, right?
Like we're all kind of, we're all feelingthat pain.
We're all having these expectations thathow things are going to be.
And then, you know, it doesn't work outthat way.
So then it's, well, what do I do now?
So what did you do?
What did you do differently or what didyou find in your quest?
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Or how did you find it?
Well, everything you just said just gaveme the chills because I'm like, yes, so
nice to talk to somebody who, who just.
relates.
And I think for me what happened, it wasafter our kid's second birthday, right?
Like I had made cupcakes that are pink andblue for my daughter and my son.
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And I got the perfect pictures Brenda.
I had the pink frosting on my daughter'snose and like blue cupcake on my son's
face.
Like I did it like gold star for me.
I just crushed that.
And I cleaned up everything in the kitchenand I was sitting on this bed and I was
like,
And my husband walked in the room and waslike, do you want a divorce?
(20:03):
Will that make you happy?
And I was like, what the F, what?
You know, I was like, I just dideverything, you know?
And I was so confused.
And then I thought to myself and was like,well, I'm like doing everything myself
anyway.
And would it be that different?
And it just, it took about two days for itto sink in.
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I felt like, no, I really didn't want adivorce.
And I started looking online and I startedreading some different books, like love
languages and men are from Mars and womenare from Venus.
And my mindset was just really negative atthe time.
So when I read those books, I even readlike the birth order book.
And I was like, this is why we don't work.
(20:49):
It didn't give me hope.
It made me real.
I was like, we communicate differently.
We show our love differently.
This is why we're not working.
And so I was kind of like, do I throw inthe towel?
And it took, I think I had that moment ofgetting complacent.
Maybe this is just the way it's gonna be.
And then a girlfriend of mine came overand I remember like I was making a fresh
(21:12):
pot of coffee and we were gonna do somelike male bashing.
That's what we did.
Like she came over and we were just like,my husband is my husband that we'd walk
our kids together.
And she told me, she was like, Steph, Ifound this book.
I listened to it on Audible and this isreally different and I think you should
check it out.
And she told me about The Empowered Wifeand so I listened to it that weekend and
(21:38):
that had a different approach.
This had a very different feeling thananything that I'd read.
And girl, I read some books, you know,like I can fix this.
Like I'm a fixer.
This just had...
there was so much emphasis on theaccountability on my accountability and
(21:58):
what I can change just from my sidewithout trying to fix my, I really put the
emphasis on me.
And when I was listening to this book, Iwas like, this woman has been in my house.
Like all the negative examples are like,she knows everything, this Laura Doyle.
And yeah, I just remember feeling reallyvalidated.
(22:22):
and feeling, you know, these times, likemy whole relationship, I have this
metaphor of just walking up a mountain,hiking a mountain with my husband and like
he stopped to tie his shoe and I nevereven noticed.
I just kept going until I was on like thetop of a cliff, you know, by myself and
alone.
And this book just made me realize like itwasn't alone and these issues that I was
(22:45):
having were not like isolated incidentsof, you know, just.
Yeah, just feeling very supported andhopeful.
And the first thing.
So kind of like what you were sayingbefore, my first thing was like, well, I'm
going to prove her wrong.
I'm going to like, yeah, like the skillsshe got, you know, like I felt a
(23:10):
connection there.
But I was so resistant.
And like I say with the other books, I wasjust so negative that I was like, you
know, I've got nothing to lose.
So I'll try this.
The intimacy skills did not have me athello necessarily.
It sounded like wacky.
You're like, okay, she puts me and thenyou start reading what she suggests and
you're like...
Yeah.
(23:31):
Yeah, I was critical, but there was justenough of a different perspective on me
being able to change things because I'mcapable of anything.
I believe that.
I can do almost anything, but I can't doeverything.
So I was like...
why not give this a shot?
It's something different.
And so after I listened to that book, Icame back and like, my personality, I'm
(23:56):
like, I want the clip notes.
I want the cheap phrases like I want.
Let's wrap it up.
Yeah.
So I did.
I came back and had a it was right around.
It was the beginning of November.
And my husband, we were in the kitchen.
The kids are clipped into their highchairs.
And my husband was like, well,
What are we going to do for the holidays?
(24:17):
Are we going to your parents' house?
Are we going to go to my parents' house?
Are we hosting here?
And that's when I had this opportunity tojust say a cheap phrase.
You know, and I was so nervous, but all Isaid was I looked at my husband and was
like, whatever you think.
And he looked at me suspiciously and thenwalked right into our sliding glass door.
(24:41):
Bam.
Like he walked right into the, nobody washurting like the process of using the
skills.
He was okay.
But that's legitimately what happened.
It was such a different response from methat he just, he walked right into the
door.
It was, yeah.
And I just, it was undeniable that thiswas having a different effect.
And it was also, it was different for myhusband, the response that he got.
(25:04):
But for me, I felt a million poundslighter.
You know, I was like, Oh, I didn't realizeI don't want to be in charge of this.
Like, I don't have to do this.
I was taking on all this unnecessary justburden, you know?
And I was like, either way, like any waywe do this, it's going to be fine.
And I trust my husband, but whatever youthink.
And then I didn't have to deal with it.
(25:26):
Yeah.
So that was really like, it sounds likeyou were just all in at that point.
I'm just going to try this.
There were no.
There were no expectations almost, itsounds like.
You're just like, let's see what happensif I do this.
Yeah, that's also another thing that Ireally liked about the skills and I still
to this day, experimenting with what worksand what doesn't work and just having an
(25:49):
open mind.
And there's a huge emphasis on me beingthe expert in my life and knowing what's a
stretch and what's a tear and you know,things and I'm constantly changing and
evolving.
So I have to check in with myself a lot.
Yeah.
Well, I love, I love that this, this imagewith the kids strapped in the high chairs,
(26:10):
because you said that before earlier, youknow, this is like our battleground, the
kids are strapped in, we're going to havean adult conversation because you know,
the kids are semi contained.
Yeah, that's like another issue, right tolike when the kids aren't contained.
But I love, you know, you went from thisone scenario where the kids are in there.
And I can't even remember, tell me again,what happened in the previous story?
(26:32):
What did he say?
Oh, I don't even remember now.
I think what happened and like, yeah.
And then now you're okay.
So now you've done this work.
You've read all these books and then youread this book, which is different.
And now, you know, you're trying somethingdifferent.
You're just letting go, letting go of allthat responsibility in one little phrase
(26:56):
and just saying whatever, whatever youthink.
Almost like I'm done.
But like in a different way.
And then he walked smack into the slidingglass door, which I also love.
It's almost like he had his own wake upcall, you know, it's like he had to walk
into that door, you know, and nothing you,I mean, it wasn't anything you did, right?
(27:16):
You didn't like, yeah, I loved what yousaid.
No people were hurt in the, in the, butnow like he did that on his own.
He walked straight into that door.
But it's funny because it's like, it's adifferent response, right?
It's normally what he have engaged.
Like you would have said, Oh, well, maybewe'll go to my parents.
And then there would have been like a backand forth.
(27:37):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It is valid at some point.
Yeah.
There would have been a big conversationabout it and it would have gotten, I mean,
I can't say a hundred percent, but likefrom the past couple of years, I would
make the decision and then something wouldcome up and something would change and I
would get upset.
And, you know, and it was, it was all theplanning though, too.
(28:00):
This has been a huge shift in myrelationship is just planning.
traveling and I get so anxious, you know,we use the term net needless emotional
turmoil.
I get so anxious around planning thingsand as a mother packing everything.
Classic example, we're going to the beachon vacation.
(28:21):
Everything is perfect for the kids.
Mom forgets her bathing suit, you know?
Right?
It's like everything is wrong at thatpoint.
Right?
Yes.
Like plane is going down again aboard.
Yes.
And yeah, so there was another skill thatI used was honoring my limits of saying I
can't.
(28:42):
And you know, once that was the first stepin relinquishing control and kind of
changing the dance around travel plans waswhatever you think.
And I don't even remember what we did thatyear but we spent time with our family and
it was fine.
And even right now we're making plans.
I'm not making plans.
My husband's making plans for spring breakright now.
(29:05):
And we're going camping in southern NewMexico and we're going to Arizona and
we're doing this road trip.
And he was this morning, he's I bookedthis campsite and we're going to these
caverns and I booked a tour and I waslike, sounds great.
Nice.
That's it.
I love it.
Sounds great.
And I'm so grateful for you doing allthis, like expressing gratitude for that
(29:27):
too, because I totally trust him.
And I don't want to do it.
Okay.
So I'm loving this and I'm hearing you,you know, say, I don't even have to do it
anymore.
Like my husband is planning and I'm justimagining women listening to this podcast,
like starting to hyperventilate.
Of not controlling all this stuff, notlike doing all the things and not
(29:49):
preparing the snack bags and the makingsure we have enough diapers, all that
stuff.
So what would you say to that?
I would say, okay, so one of the firsttimes after a couple years ago, the first
time my husband was booking flights fortraveling, I was like, you've got this,
babe.
Thank you for doing this.
(30:10):
We like zigzagged across the country,Brenda.
I mean, I didn't even I pulled a CathyMurray, you know, she got the house sight
and seeing whatever her husband boughtthat for her.
I didn't even look at the plane tickets.
I didn't.
look at the itinerary, I was like, okay,we've got to be in Albuquerque to fly out
this date.
Great.
(30:30):
You know, and it was okay getting there.
We had two or three different planes wewere on, but the way home, I was like, why
are we going like, why are we going toChicago and then North Carolina and then
Denver and then all over the place?
And you know, even on the best day,traveling is challenging.
(30:52):
But like, as much as
you know, because you kind of feel like ahostage, but it wasn't, it wasn't my
burden.
Like it wasn't, I didn't, I just was ableto laugh and be like, well, this is an
adventure.
Let's go get some extra bags of chips.
You know, like it wasn't, if it had beenme, Brenda, that had done that, I would
have beat myself up and I would have beenso hard on myself.
(31:14):
And my kickass husband was just like,well, oops, I guess I'll learn from that.
And we had a laugh and we were going tomake it home.
It was going to be OK.
But like just changing that and having alaugh together and my kids were, you know,
we got through it, but it wasn't myburden.
You know, I didn't have to fix anything.
(31:35):
I'd say, yeah, this sucks, but we'll beokay.
Yeah.
It's fine.
I still can hear them hyperventilating.
Like, I still think they're like, what?
How?
No, I'm just gonna do the flights, youknow?
Like, I'll just do it.
How did you get to that point where youjust were like, I'm gonna, you know, he's
gonna do it.
(31:55):
I'm letting it go.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I think I have so much evidence of when Ihave relinquished control of my husband
stepping up, because like I said, I wasdoing so much that it was like I was
enabling him to just, you know, or right,so he wouldn't do anything.
And it was me pushing, you know, I'll justtake care of this.
(32:19):
I'll just
You know, I'll do everything.
And so when I pulled back, he stepped upin a way that I know that he wants to take
care of us.
You know, and he always does.
And it's not always perfect, but somethingthat I've learned from Laura Doyle in this
community is that it can be life lessons.
It doesn't have to be wife lessons.
(32:39):
And I was so sick of being that nagging.
like teaching him how to do something,reloading the dishwasher, you know what I
mean?
All the things that I just, I like how Ishow up so much better now than I did
before.
Making all those plans and just being incontrol of everything, having my hands on
(33:02):
everything was exhausting, you know?
And like that girl that was lightheartedand carefree when I first met my husband.
Like she was gone for so long and I reallylike her.
She's super fun.
You sound super fun.
You are so fun.
But yes, I get it that she, who is thatperson now, you know, when you're in the
(33:26):
thick of babies and feet up in the air,you know, where all your autonomy is gone,
it seems.
Yeah.
So it was, it was just worth it to me formyself.
show up calm and relaxed and have myhusband's back.
And it was, yeah, it was just worth it totry.
And you know what, if it didn't work, if Iwas freaking out the whole time, I'll
(33:49):
change it next time.
Right.
You know?
Yeah, it's just that excitement.
You know, like what I focus on increasesand the connection that I had, those first
couple of trips with my husband was sodifferent than the past, you know?
And I was just like, this is where it'sat, you know?
Like just...
Having that connection across the airportwhere he looks for me and holds up a bag
(34:14):
of chips to see if I want that kind or theother kind.
Just so cute and just receiving that.
And it also felt bringing up receiving, itfelt really feminine too, just to be taken
care of.
I don't have to do all this.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, Steph.
Well, that sounds so much lighter.
(34:36):
That's probably nice.
And even as we're talking about it, likethe beginning is like, it's so, it starts
out so heavy, right?
Like you're dealing with big things,infertility.
I just, so many women I feel can relate tothat and that pain and that, yeah, just
that, just how difficult that is to gothrough and to feel totally alone in it.
(35:00):
Like husband is off in his own world.
He's worried about what people think, notabout, you know.
his wife right now and starting there.
But then, you know, we see this wholestory progress and there's lots more in
the middle, right?
But then at this point where we'relaughing and just talking about.
(35:22):
The lightness in your relationship now,the fun, and it's so refreshing to hear,
you know, and to, and to have that, tohave that progression from this is where I
was and like, this is where I am now.
And I feel like.
If I were listening, I'd be what was inthe middle.
Tell me more.
And I know you did.
You like mentioned some things that youdid, you know, like you used a phrase that
(35:48):
was different than anything you'd donebefore instead of, you know, trying to
plan out the thing you just said, whateveryou referred him back to himself.
What do you think?
You know, tell me what, what you want todo or what you had in mind and just having
a totally different response.
And then, you know, this plane, this,this.
trip where you're zigzagging across thecountry, but you are good.
(36:11):
You are enjoying the time.
What a difference.
It's, it's really incredible to hear.
You're so welcome because I know you didthat.
I know you did that experiment.
I want to say, I know you did the work andI know it is work.
It's just a different kind of work, butit's like a work that you get to.
(36:36):
you can relax into.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I think when you say work, something thatcomes up for me too was the foundation of
these skills is self care, right?
And that is the skill that I resist themost.
So when I really got into this, like beingthis, I am super efficient and I'm capable
(37:02):
and I can get stuff done.
And it would be just like on the bottom ofmy to-do list.
You know, and like you're saying before,taking care of the kids on top of it, I'd
be like, if and then trap also, if I justget this done, then I'll have time for me.
And I mean, when I was, it was before theskills, like I had a hard time looking in
(37:23):
the mirror.
I had a hard time liking what I saw andreally working on as much as relationship
coaching for my marriage, like.
that relationship with myself needed a lotof work.
And, you know, like I would try, I wouldlike half-ass self care.
I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna, I'll dye myhair and I would get a kit from the
grocery store and my hair would be orange,you know?
(37:46):
And I'd be like, oh, well, okay, I tried,you know?
Yeah, I'm like, oh no, I've got to go fixthat.
And just changing little things.
It self care was a stretch for me, youknow, like going on a girls trip was not
in my radar for a while.
But just, you know, I remember one timebeing on vacation, being on vacation on
(38:10):
the beach, and I would go to the grocerystore and I would buy, I call it vacation
creamer for my coffee.
Okay.
And you know, like, you know, because Ideny myself so much.
I would just and I love like this vanillaalmond, you know, creamer.
And I'd be like, oh, yeah, I've got myvacation creamer.
(38:31):
And I'd be so happy in the morning.
And I was like, this is so dumb.
Just buy it every day.
Buy it at home.
Stop denying yourself.
It sounds so simple, but it was likeunlearning something in my brain.
It was like retraining that.
It's OK.
It's OK to do nice things for yourself.
(38:53):
It was a journey.
to get to self care.
And you know, when I did get up to havinga girls weekend, like going mountain
biking for two days, trusting my husbandand leaving, you know?
And just, and there were trips, I rememberone of the first trips I went on, I was
just like, I almost couldn't enjoy itbecause I was so worried about what they
(39:14):
were doing at home.
And like, when I left, when I left thisgirls weekend, I got, you know, a half an
hour.
down the highway and was just alreadygetting resentful because I was like, I
know I'm gonna walk into a dirty home.
I know I'm gonna have to clean everythingup and do all this work.
And yeah.
(39:35):
All the relaxation or whatever, it'scanceled.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I just, I had to work on all that too,the resentment and just letting go of
expectations and just being grateful.
for really having that time and makingsure I'm filled up and really taking care
of myself.
Yeah.
(39:55):
Oh yeah, I can talk, like I hear thejourney, you know, like it wasn't just,
you know, you start trying things and it'schanging things, but it's like this whole
process.
And I really hear that it was an internalthing too.
It was a changing of how you viewedyourself, you know, and what almost like
I'm worth it.
I'm worth the fancy creamer.
(40:16):
that makes me happy in the morning, youknow?
Which like you said, it sounds so simpleand it's, yeah, like maybe some people
would be like, of course get the creameryou want, you know?
But I totally get that like denyingyourself things in the name of the family
budget or, you know, or the martyr, youknow, and we don't think of it as being a
martyr at the time, right?
(40:37):
When we're in it, we're like, this is, I'msacrificing for my family.
Like this is noble, what I'm doing here.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I like want to start a club.
Can we start the like self care was a hardskill club or I'm sure we can put a better
a better name for it, but I literallyskipped over that chapter in the book.
(40:59):
I was like, yeah, yeah.
No, this is not I don't need this.
I don't like this is not helpful.
This is fluff in this book.
Yeah.
How'd that go for you?
I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.
Yeah, I'm like, ugh.
It took me six years to really even, toreally learn it.
(41:22):
I didn't even learn it.
I didn't, I tried other things and thenthings would be good and it was just me in
the book for a long time.
And I didn't even have the book.
I literally got it from the library thefirst time I read it and I saw some
immediate shifts in my.
in my mindset and I noticed some thingsand then it was like back to the library
and I was like, okay, I kind of rememberthis.
Like things were just okay, you know, theywere good enough.
(41:43):
And then we'd have some big life decisioncome up like buying a house and I would
just go down this spiral.
I talk about that a lot.
Just I had this negative spiral that Iwould go into when my husband did or said
something that I just didn't understand ordidn't agree with or just thought he was
like coming from a whole other planet.
(42:05):
people that don't know how to do life.
That's really how it felt.
Like he came from the planet of likenannies and I don't know.
Yeah.
But anyway, what was I even telling you?
But yeah, it just it just extended myjourney.
Like it wasn't I, I had to, that wassomething I had to work on.
(42:28):
And I had to really, I think it went handin hand with vulnerability for me because
I felt really vulnerable to
to do anything.
Like, I can't even say that.
I see the duality in all of it because itwas like, I was doing stuff for myself
sometimes, but doing it on a regular basiswas a huge stretch.
Like the daily self care, the dailyfilling up was a huge stretch for me.
(42:53):
And just the guilt, like it's still there.
I still feel it, but I have it now that ifI do it, I'm gonna be better on the other
side of it.
You know, like.
I know how it feels to interact with myhusband after I've done the self care or
how I interact with my kids after I'vemade that a priority.
Um, but yeah, I definitely resist it.
(43:15):
And I've, I was just at this thing likethis past weekend where a few women
mentioned, like somebody actuallymentioned this and we weren't taught.
This was just a friend thing.
Nobody knows about the skills that we'retalking about.
And she's self care is a four letter word.
I can't even.
I can't even think about it.
I just, it is not okay.
(43:37):
But it was funny because she was alsotalking about something that she's doing
now.
And she's like kind of just put everythingelse to the side and she's just focusing
on this one thing.
And I'm like, girl, just keep doing that.
Cause it was like a self-care thing.
It was something that was healing her.
It sounded like to me, it was somethingthat was bringing her healing.
And I don't know if she saw it necessarilyas self-care but I was like.
(44:01):
I just related to that so much when shewas like, it is, she was like, it's a four
letter word to do that.
I'm like, yeah, I remember being there.
I remember being there.
It's not a four letter word to me anymore.
It's so freeing and beautiful, but even, Imean, I can get in back in those habits of
just doing all the things and tellingmyself this makes me feel good.
(44:25):
Yeah.
It's weird how our brain does that.
Gosh, I just relate to everything you saidand the downward spirals and getting stuck
in that and just the resisting self-care.
I feel like I would have these wins, thesesuccesses with the skills and then be
hitting speed bumps.
It was like I could only get this farbecause I wasn't doing self-care.
(44:46):
And it was like during relationship coachtraining.
Like I had the book and was doing that foryears and then I went into relationship
coach training.
And it wasn't until I was almost done withthat I really, yeah, took changed up my
self care and I constantly have to do it.
It's a skill that I need to change andcheck in on and, you know, be accountable
(45:09):
a lot.
So, yeah, and I so get that.
And it evolved to like I found that Ifound that evolves in some stuff that I
was really experimenting with self care inthe beginning, too, because I was like, I
don't even know.
I don't even know.
what would make me ridiculously happy.
That just sounded weird to me too.
There isn't anything, like I really feltthat way.
(45:30):
There's nothing that makes me just like oncloud nine.
And so I was like, well, I used to likedance.
So like, maybe I'll, I'm gonna commit.
I'm gonna go back to dancing.
And that was really good for me, but itwasn't, it wasn't self care at first
because I took this body that hadn'tdanced in 15 or 20 years and was trying
(45:53):
to.
do things, you know?
And so it was more, that became more ofjust a mental exercise for me to, oh, I
hate myself right now.
Oh, I hate my body right now.
Oh, I hate the way I look in the mirror,but I'm going to keep going.
And I would come from it miserable somenights.
Like I hate it.
I can't go back.
So, but it was like this experiment and,you know, eventually after doing it long
(46:17):
enough or going there and having a reallygreat song play and just relax into it.
And I'd be like, Oh.
this, you know, it was, it actually was aprocess to get back to this point where it
brought me a lot of joy.
So anyway, self care, self care can be ajourney, I guess, is away from that.
Yeah, dancing.
Yeah.
After you've been out of it for 15 or 20years, I, yeah, I could just imagine just
(46:42):
having an expectation on myself that like,I did this for a long time.
I should be good at this.
I should be able to just, you know, justlike riding a bike.
Yeah, that's challenging.
But finding
I wasn't that good.
Like I hadn't done it that much.
It was like one of those like childhooddreams.
I would have loved to do it more but wecouldn't.
Like there was just, so I did otherthings, you know, that kind of scratched
(47:03):
that itch.
And then when I went to college, like Itried to take a class or two every
semester, you know, so I had thefoundation.
But I was also with other, it was quite a,it's quite a mix in the class that I was
going to.
But there were some dancers, you know, andyeah.
So yeah, it was.
Anyway, that's a story for another day,but yeah, it was like an experimental
(47:24):
thing though.
I'm like, I used to, I love dancing, solet's try it.
And at first it was rough, but yeah, itwas really good.
I love going now and being able to look inthe mirror and say, I like where I'm at.
Look at where I came from and it is moreself-care now.
Like I can go to dance and I'm just likeso relaxed.
(47:45):
But at first I couldn't relax because Iwas so up in my head.
I had needless emotional turmoil.
Right, totally.
But like you said, it's experimenting.
I'm the expert and it was something that Iwas like, I'm gonna stick with this, I'm
gonna see how it goes, you know, and Ikept it up.
And we do a dance performance at the endof the year.
It's like a big thing where it's likedowntown, it's in this big theater.
(48:08):
And so I worked, this is the year that Idid coach training.
So I'm like, all right, I got a freshfriend.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I got to practice theseskills, right?
So I'm going to do dance.
And so I was doing dance and I get to theend of the year where we do it, where
we're doing this performance.
I'm only in three dances.
A lot of girls are in like eight to 10,but I'd worked, you know, really hard.
(48:29):
And I, and I got to that point and I didthat performance and I had so much fun.
Hang out, hanging out with all the girls.
Like we were kind of the ones with fewerdances.
We were like in the basement, like thatwas our getting ready area.
So I was just like hanging out withpeople.
I was part of something and it was so fun.
Like we did the performance and it endedand like looking back, I'm like, K the
(48:55):
whole year getting up there was just thismental, physical battle.
But I did that and that was fun.
And I was like, okay, I wanna keep doingthis.
Props to you.
Oh my gosh, that's so brave on top of it.
Oh gosh.
It was crazy.
It is crazy.
And it's still I love it now.
(49:15):
And I feel like I'm a part of thecommunity.
I'm a part of, you know, and that wassomething that was really missing to from
my life was just people.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's such a good point.
I think I would confuse some self cares ormaybe I think I've manipulated every
single skill.
(49:36):
Yeah.
But like self care, I'd be like, well,
You know, I love solitude and I know a lotof moms can relate to that.
But what would happen for me would be Iwould isolate myself, you know, and it
would turn into sort of like I.
Yeah, just isolating myself and not havingmuch contact with other people.
(49:56):
And it made me a little prickly.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
I know for me to coming out of it, it waslike.
since like, what is that called?
Sensory overload to go from my solitudespace to not anymore.
So it was like, good feeling gone, youknow?
Like as soon as.
Like quills out, I'm nervous.
(50:17):
Yes, yeah.
I always think we say it all the time,like that there's a scene in Nemo, finding
Nemo, where like, they're like goingalong, they're all happy and then Marlon's
good feeling gone, you know, and it'salways in our house.
But yeah, I was like, yeah, I lovesolitude too.
But yeah, if the second I.
get back into real life, it's gone, thenit's okay.
(50:38):
Maybe I should look at that and see, youknow, evaluate it.
And that's one of the biggest things forme was just that space to like evaluate
what was going on inside of me.
Yeah.
And to kind of take the focus off myhusband for a minute.
Cause he was the prop, like he was thereason, at least in my mind back then,
(50:59):
that all of this stuff was coming up forme.
Why I was upset, why.
It was the things he said or did or didn'tdo that was causing me the turmoil.
And so having the space to just look at itand to experiment with things like going
on a girls trip and just seeing how Ifeel, you know?
How do I feel right now?
What do I want?
And sometimes it was like, I kind of wantto be with my family right now, which was
(51:22):
weird because I had been with them somuch, I didn't even have that.
So it's such a great, for me, it's justbeen full circle to where I just wanted to
get away all the time and I couldn't, Ididn't know how I just didn't know how to
leave ever just even for something smallto where now I can leave and I'm like, Oh,
I don't feel like I need to leave all thetime or I don't want to leave all the time
(51:43):
because I get all the solitude I need or Iget, you know, getting those outside
experiences with other women.
And, and one of the things that I thoughtabout when we were talking about that was
like, it's like a daily thing though.
It's not like the girls trips are awesome.
So fun.
Right.
And they throw you up.
But it's for me, it's also like this dailything.
(52:04):
So I have really good friends that, youknow, I talked to on occasion, but like
dance for me, it was like every week, oncea week or twice a week, I'm going and I'm
interacting with people, you know?
Like it was like a constant practice.
It wasn't just like a one, one hit wonder,I guess.
Yeah.
No, I totally relate to that.
And just, I mean.
(52:25):
kudos to you for changing things up somuch and taking that pause to actually
think about your feelings.
That was such, that was really hard forme.
Cause like we were talking about before, Iwould just shove everything down.
And unlike you, I was like a soda can whenyou would shake it up and up, like I would
explode.
And just taking the time to process, youknow, just to like, how do I feel?
(52:47):
What do I want?
Why, like, why am I so angry right now?
What's really going on?
Was a huge shift for me.
And I know like even the social self-care,yesterday I had lunch with a girlfriend.
We just had some tacos and shared somefried ice cream.
And by the time I got home, I was able totake my dog for a quick walk.
(53:09):
But by the time the kids got off theschool bus, like we were, I was there, I
was present.
And I was excited to see them.
Where there was a lot of days where I'd belike, the bus is coming, ah, ah.
You know?
I had enough.
I used to think that if I did that, go andhave lunch, I would be too burnt out to
(53:31):
show up for my kids.
Like somehow, even though I'd gone for afive mile run, like it just things were
not.
I just wasn't checking in with myself.
And so last night, like I was able to makecookies with my daughter and my son, you
know, went on a bunny hunt with myhusband.
And we were able to, you know, come backtogether and have a good time.
(53:52):
And.
You know, watch a little bit of Spider-Manlast night.
Like it was just nice.
And you're exactly what you're saying.
Like I was exactly where I wanted to be.
Yeah.
What a, what an amazing feeling.
Yeah.
So refreshing.
It's so refreshing to even like when yousay it, I totally get like that.
The kids, the kids are home.
(54:13):
It's like, no, but then like I heard fromyou, bring it on, you know, that's how it
feels for me when I'm filled up on selfcare, I'm like, bring it on.
I'm ready.
You know, let's do this.
And I love how, like how you describedyour last night, you know, like your
husband's doing something with one of thekids you've divided and conquered.
It's not just you and the two kidsanymore.
(54:34):
And you're doing something.
I mean, that's another, I'm like thinkinglike how I have a hard time, like cooking
with my kids and I'm like, Oh, I want tobe that mom.
I want to have that, but I can't cause Ijust, I just want to.
All up in it and I just, they're doingeverything wrong and I can't do it.
So it's something that I'm working on.
you but I feel like when I'm like if itwas gonna happen those are the moments
(54:59):
that it could happen in you know right andhappen yeah I get that too and there are
the times where like I check in and I'mlike this is not the right day to bake
cookies and you can have extra screen timetonight you know like I put so much
pressure on once again like how thisshould look.
(55:21):
that it was costing me the connection withmy kids, with my husband, because, you
know, it's supposed to look like this.
And I was showing up just resentful anddidn't want to be there.
There are times growing down where, no, Ireally don't want to read a book tonight.
I really, I really just don't want to doit.
And saying I can't to my kids was hard.
And saying that to my husband, cause I cando it, but I'm not going to be happy about
(55:45):
it.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like it's finding.
finding a balance with that and pausingand really asking and asking myself and
yeah, just being real honest.
Yeah, no, I love that so much because youhave, I just was, somebody was telling me
this the other day, the three indicatorsof a successful family or whatever good
(56:07):
outcomes for teenagers or adult childrenor whatever are like reading to get or
reading with them, family dinner and someother thing.
But to have that become an expectation andto have all that pressure on yourself.
Well, if I don't go read the storytonight, what's going to happen here?
(56:27):
You have somebody else has already toldyou, the research has been done.
These are simple things.
But being able to, this is not a cookiebaking night.
And knowing that about yourself, I feellike that is what gives you the power to
be able to do the cookie baking night onthe right night.
So just, yeah, it's just really powerful.
(56:48):
Well, we've been at this for an hour nowand I feel like it's chocked full, like so
much good stuff in here.
Yeah.
But what, if you were just to tellsomebody how, like, how would you start?
If you wanted to, if you're like, yeah, ifthey're hearing your story and they're
being like, okay, that sounds awesome, ormaybe even that sounds too good to be
(57:09):
true.
and they're curious and they're like, isit too good to be true?
What would you, like, where would youpoint them or what would you suggest that
they do?
Oh, it's so loaded.
I want to give everything, right?
Right, yeah, yeah.
You've already given so much, so nopressure.
You really have.
Sharing your story is so beautiful.
(57:31):
Oh, thank you so much.
I think to anybody who's curious, I wouldinvite them to experiment, especially with
self-care.
with experimenting, that would be my firststep.
And instead of blowing past it like I did,like we both did.
You know, I changed the prospectus on it alittle bit.
(57:51):
This could be the most fun homework youwill ever have in your life.
You know, like this could, this has thepossibility of you becoming ridiculously
happy or whatever, you know, whatever yourvision is.
And that vision can change.
But I mean, I would really.
get in touch with you, get off anybodyelse's page and just figure out what makes
(58:15):
you smile.
You know, I think that was just a hugechange for me.
Just instead of having the expectations ona date night or whatever else it was, like
when my husband comes home, I might stillbe in my long johns from skiing.
The other night I was wearing oniongoggles when my husband came home and I
was chopping onions with like...
You know, a beanie on and my ski socks onstill and slippers.
(58:40):
And I was smiling and my kids weredancing, you know, and asking Alexa random
questions and whatnot, but he walked inand we stopped and we hugged.
And having that smile on my face makes allthe difference.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love too.
And you created it.
You know, it wasn't like, I'm gonna slapthis smile on when he walks to the door.
(59:01):
It was like, no, I'm.
Like it sounds like you were justgenuinely happy doing your thing.
Yeah.
Love that.
Well, thank you so much for sharing that.
And this has been so fun.
I want to do it some more.
So let's get you back here.
Thank you so much, Stephanie, for comingon the show, for being willing to share
(59:21):
something so vulnerable and so raw.
And.
And then to show how, you know, what youdid different and how it is now because it
does sound, it sounds really awesome.
Like I feel really inspired.
I'm like, all right, I got to recommit tolike my daily self care.
What really brings me joy.
So thank you.
(59:43):
Thank you, Brenda.
Yeah, you're welcome.
The following program is powered by Ridethe Wave Media.
You are now listening to The RestoredWife.
Welcome to the podcast where we discoverthe relationship preventative medicine you
didn't know you needed and help you createthe relationship and life you dreamed of
(00:23):
when you first said yes to your husband.
I'm Brenda Krodolfer, a certified LauraDoyle relationship coach.
Ready to chat about relationships today?
Hi Stephanie.
Hi Brenda, yay!
Yes, you said that kind of loaded, butyes, I'm ready.
(00:43):
I'm excited.
I'm on board.
Well, I'm so glad that you're here with metoday.
We're gonna just be chatting.
We're gonna be talking about how, youknow, where our relationships were, where
they are now, what changed, how we foundthe stuff that we use today.
(01:04):
And yeah, so just first tell me a littlebit about you.
That's definitely well.
Yeah, I mean, I have been out in Coloradosince for like over 20 years now, and I
love being outside.
I'm an outdoorsy person.
And I met my husband when I was still incollege.
And we just fell in love adventuringtogether.
(01:26):
Just, you know, like, we would be watchinga movie on Saturday night.
And
eating Tony's pizza, you know, the frozenpizzas, and be looking at a, you know,
like a guidebook and be like, oh, let's gocamping here.
And we would leave like at 10 o'clock atnight.
Those type of, you know, just so carefreeand so fun.
(01:49):
And yeah, we just, we've been together for18 years and we've been married for 13.
And a big part of our relationship, we hada fertility journey for about three years.
We got married and right away I was like,I want to start a family.
And it took us a while.
And I think what a big part of the skillsand getting into relationship coaching for
(02:14):
me was just, I, I did that.
If this happens, then I'll be happy.
I did the if and then game a lot.
And so I just, I had all my eggs in thatone basket to have babies.
And you know, we were
We were fortunate, we did, we had twinsand they were happy and healthy.
And I thought, yeah, I finally like, I gotit, you know?
(02:37):
But I was miserable.
And I know I'm gonna blow your mind rightnow.
It did not help the marriage.
I finally got what I wanted.
But then, you know, my marriage was justfalling apart and I didn't know what to do
and felt really lost and started to lookfor some help, for some support.
(02:58):
Yeah.
Okay.
I loved what you called the if then trapor the if then game.
I can so relate to that.
Yeah.
Just thinking like, well now when I lookback, it's okay.
I had everything that I wanted and I wastotally unhappy.
Like it was like, what's the next thing?
Which I still work through today.
(03:19):
It's I love buying houses.
So I think that's fun.
And it gives, I think it just distracts meand it like, it gives me something to
really focus all my attention on.
But it's also like a crutch, I think.
It's if I have this, if it all looks acertain way, then I can relax.
And I've actually found that, I foundpartly to be true, like when I'm
(03:42):
fulfilling on my own desires and likegoing after things that I really, really
want, or like our living room, we read itour living room and it does, it feels like
a lot better because it's finally a littlebit more what I want.
But anyway, just totally relate to that.
And...
Yeah, hearing your journey go from superfun, spontaneous relationship with your
husband or, you know, boyfriend, right?
(04:04):
It was like, I love the Tony's pizza andjust you're free, right?
We can just do whatever we want.
And there's nobody, there's nobody that'sgoing to stop us, you know, like we're
unstoppable.
And then to come into this place wherelike something is getting in the way of
the thing you want to do.
Like you can't.
You know, like you could just pick up andgo hiking.
(04:26):
It was kind of crazy or go on a trip or anadventure.
But then I hear that like you were in thisfertility journey where you wanted
something and it wasn't happening.
Just how painful that must've been.
And then to have it all kind of work out,but then to look back and, and think,
(04:47):
well, yeah, but now my marriage is inshambles or I got this thing at the
expense of my marriage.
Yeah, that's a really good way of puttingit.
I got this at the expense of my marriagebecause I didn't make my marriage a
priority.
And yeah, it was a sad time.
It was a really lonely time too.
Looking back on it, you know, I had thesetwins and I was nursing them and I had
(05:11):
these goals.
I like, there were so many shoulds on myvision too of how this should look.
And, you know, I was like, I'm going tonurse my kids for a year.
And that was like a blur doing that, youknow,
putting that pressure on myself and justthere was some heartbreak in there.
There was definitely I remember during ourfertility journey.
(05:33):
I remember we were doing inseminations,the IUIs, and during the fifth one.
You know, you're just you're such ahostage in that situation.
I just remember being on the hospital bed,like exposed in a, you know, terrible gown
and my husband just sitting next to meand.
there's a point where the doctor, it'svery quick procedure, but he will prop up
(05:57):
the bed so your feet are up in the air andyour head is tipped backwards and you're
using everything you can to get pregnant,right?
Use the gravity, use the, you know.
Right.
And so I was doing that and I was just, Ijust had this moment of feeling so
helpless and so out of control andexhausted.
And I just started crying and.
(06:20):
For so long, I was like, I'll just pull upmy bootstraps.
I'll keep pushing through.
It's going to be fine.
And finally, like when those floodgatesopened, I couldn't close them.
And my husband was right there and he justtold me, Brenda, he was like, Steph, be
quiet.
Other people are going to hear you in thewaiting room.
We're in this, you know, a fertilityclinic.
And it was that was the first bigheartbreak in our relationship where I was
(06:44):
just like, who is this guy?
I married the wrong person.
I married Peter Pan, he's never going togrow up.
And this was, you know, is this the rightchoice to even want to have a baby with
this guy?
It was really like all the question markswere going on, all the doubt.
And fifth time was a charm though.
We got pregnant.
(07:06):
Was it this time you're describing?
It was this time.
We, you know, left that fertility clinicafter.
I remember just counting the stripes on mysocks with my feet tipped up on that bed
because my husband wasn't helping me calmdown.
And I was like, all right, I was wearingthese brown smart wool socks with orange,
blue and tan stripes.
(07:26):
Like I can see it still, all differentwidths.
And yeah, like I just see it.
And by the time I calmed down and we hadthe green light to leave the clinic, I got
in my car and my husband got in his carand we just went separate directions.
I checked into a hotel room that night.
Oh, Stephanie, so heartbreaking.
Right?
(07:47):
Oh, it was just, I have the chills talkingabout it because I just go right back to
it.
Just that feeling of like, oh yeah, justdoubt and fear and heartbreak.
Yeah, oh, I can, oh man, even when yousaid it, like when you was like, Steph,
calm down, I was like, who is this guy?
(08:07):
You know, like even I'm- Right.
I'm seeing that, right?
Oh, but I can so relate to it at the sametime.
It's like, it's every time my husbandopened his mouth, you know, like it was
like, who is this guy and like, where doeshe come off and what it's like
bewildering.
Interesting though, that in that momentthat you like really just broke down.
Yeah.
(08:28):
That was the time that it all worked.
Does that, have you ever thought aboutthat?
I, you know.
I've thought not exactly like that.
And I kind of love that because I believe,you know, we're meant to be together.
And I always, I always wanted to be withhim.
Even when we were going through like thesehard times and there was a couple more
(08:49):
heartbreaks, I never had two feet out.
Maybe I was on the fence, but I neverpacked the bags.
I was never, you know, there was like,even when I threatened divorce Brenda and
my husband came in and you know, we wouldtalk about getting divorced and the kids
and.
I never, it was never realistic to me.
It was a threat.
(09:10):
And it was kind of like that, man, like aninja throwing star, like something I
would keep in my back pocket as a weaponthat if our fight got to that point, I'd
be like, wow, you know, throw out thatdivorce weapon and yeah, it was, it was
just tough for a while.
Yeah.
So was it kind of like, you knew that ifyou threw out the divorce word, maybe he
(09:32):
would like shape up or.
Well, I attempted that, right?
I sort of just ultimatum.
But really what would happen is I wouldthrow out that divorce, that weapon, and
he would just put his hands up in the airand be like, I'm done.
Like, I, you know, it would be kind oflike the end of the fight.
(09:55):
And there were times too where we'd befighting in the kitchen, you know, and the
kids are like clipped in and they're highchairs around the island and we'd be
fighting.
I'd be the dignified one that would belike, we can't fight in front of the kids,
you know?
And like somehow I was like the good onein that.
And I mean, looking back, I'm just, I'mgoing to share everything with you, but
(10:19):
I'm cringing inside.
I'm totally cringing.
Yeah.
Oh, I can relate to that.
If I'm not careful, if I go back tocertain things, I will start dwelling on
them and it'll just suck me back into itif I'm not careful.
And yeah.
It's painful to go back to that placewhere things were like just on the rocks,
(10:41):
I guess, is, you know, it's such a simpleway of saying things, but it doesn't, it
feels awful.
And it's like, when is this, when is thisgoing to end or is this ever going to
change?
I feel like that makes, and when you saythat too, the thing that was really
confusing in my marriage is that we hadreally good times too.
It was like a roller coaster, right?
(11:02):
Like you said,
when's this going to end?
And that's what it felt like.
It felt like a ride I was on because wewould have, we would have great times
together and then it would just godownhill and it'd be like, you know,
abort, abort.
And so it was, yeah, it was justconfusing.
I didn't know when I talked to my mentors,when I talked to, you know, people that
(11:23):
have been in relationships for 30 yearsand even my big sister and stuff, they
would, I remember even the first year ofmarriage, people being like marriage is
hard work.
marriage takes two, it's communication.
And I was like, why do people do thisthen?
What's the deal?
Like I married my adventure partner, Imarried this guy who's so in love with and
(11:44):
like, why are things changing?
So yeah, just that roller coaster ride,man, it could be fun, but it was brutal
when it came down.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
That's yeah.
I can so relate to that too, that we hadreally good times also.
There were times when we're like, we'rethe coolest couple in this room.
(12:06):
Look at everybody.
They all look lame.
They're sitting far apart and we'relaughing with each other and having a good
time.
You know?
And then, yeah, the next day, mine isalways like, he'd come home from work and
I'm exhausted from these two kids and likeno social interaction, right?
Now I'm like, okay, maybe I should have, Icould have done something differently, but
(12:26):
I just felt trapped.
I didn't know.
I really put it all on him.
It's his responsibility to make sure thatI'm, I have the social interaction I need
for the day, you know, those kinds ofthings.
But yeah, so it was like those kinds ofsituations I feel can drag out for a
really long time too, because it's like,all right, this stays, you know, maybe
this day will be better or I don't know,you just get in a flow too.
(12:48):
You get crapped on the ride, maybe.
Yeah, that's
I mean, when you talk about your husbandcoming home from work, I can really relate
to that too as a stay at home mom.
And my husband, what happened for us waslike, my husband would come home and he
would idle in the driveway and I could atour old house, like I could see his
headlights and you know, then he wouldcome into our house and I would like meet
(13:13):
him at the door and you know, like what'sgoing on and kind of have that.
Did you bring me flowers?
Or like, did you do anything nice for mewhile I'm like slaving away?
I had some expectations on him.
But what happened, I would just see hisheadlights and he eventually would come in
the house.
What started happening was he would gointo the workshop after getting home.
(13:35):
You know, he'd turn off the truck and hewould go into his workshop.
And we had a fridge in there and maybehe'd have a couple beers.
Maybe he would change the tube on a tirefor biking.
you know, and then he would stop at a baror a restaurant or at a friend's house on
the way home.
And he would just, my thought process waslike, okay, he doesn't want to come home.
(13:58):
So maybe I can make things easier at homefor him when he gets home.
Like, I'll start doing more around thehouse.
Like even I was taking care of those kidsand like making dinners and cleaning the
home.
But I was like, I can stay in the house.
I can move along.
I can.
when I would see him have a hole in hiskeen hiking boots, I'd be like, oh, I'll
(14:18):
just order a new pair for him.
I know he likes his brand.
So I took over like just doing everything.
And I had no idea I was pushing himfurther and further away.
Like the more helpful I was, the more ourrelationship just turned into like kind of
that smothering mother thing, which I hadno idea I was doing.
(14:39):
My intentions were so good.
making it easier for him.
Come home, man.
Yeah, drink your beer in the house.
Yeah, I'm here.
Let's hang out.
I know this is getting on his page alittle bit right now, but I wasn't that
fun to come home to Brenda.
Like, I wasn't, I wasn't like happy.
(15:02):
I wasn't, you know, I hadn't done anythingduring the day, like fun to tell him
about.
I wasn't bringing anything besides here'smy chore list.
And, you know.
here's what I've accomplished.
You should love me for what I'm doing.
Yes, yes, of course you should, right?
Yeah, so I'm doing everything.
(15:24):
Yeah, so buying him new boots, you know,doing the fix this stuff around the house,
mowing the lawn, adding more onto yourto-do list while you're like nursing these
babies and tending to them full-time,right?
To their every beck and call, I'm sure.
Especially with your mom.
(15:45):
That didn't make you happier, I'm sensing.
No, I mean, I think I was happy being amom and I knew that was something in my
core.
Like I was meant to be a mother and I'm sograteful that I am.
I just had this picture of what it shouldlook like and it was not matching up.
(16:07):
Yeah, yeah, so relatable.
Isn't that funny?
Like I've been thinking about that a lot.
Like my kids are past this stage, like myyoungest is seven.
And so we've moved on from the toddlerbaby phase.
And I can look back and honestly say thatwas my favorite time.
(16:27):
I loved having a baby.
I loved having toddlers.
They were adorable.
And yes, I'm not in it anymore.
So it's easy to forget about, you know,the hard part.
But I think it was that I was adding allthis other stuff on.
And also just had all these expectationsabout it, around it, which I think you did
a really good job describing too.
(16:49):
Like if I just do more here.
And it's funny too, because there werethings that I would do that brought me a
lot of joy.
Sometimes a home improvement project, Iwould just shut the kids off.
I'm going to put trim around my windowsbecause that sounds fun to me.
And I just let everything else go.
You know, like I didn't worry about.
the laundry and the stuff.
(17:09):
And I was like happy and like my husbandwould come home and I would be like in the
middle of my project and I'd be proud ofmyself for what I had done and he would
praise what I was doing.
And so I learned a lot from that.
But then I also had this like secretresentment that like he wasn't the
handyman around the house, that he didn'tlike to do these jobs, that I always had
(17:30):
to teach him how to do things.
That was kind of our dynamic.
Okay.
So then I even got lost once I startedpracticing the skills we kind of mentioned
at one point in this.
It was like I stopped doing everythingagain, but really everything.
Like I stopped housework and things thatactually did bring me joy, but that I
(17:50):
didn't know were even a source of joybecause they were tied up in the
resentment.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So tell me, like, what, so you said kindof towards the end of the snippet of your
story that you shared that, you know, you.
finally decided like something's got togive.
And you talk to people, you talk to yourrelationship mentors who just kind of said
(18:13):
marriage is hard work.
And I remember hearing like all theconventional marriage advice, you know?
And I just thought it sounded lame.
And I was like, I don't think it has to bethat way.
That was kind of my thing.
I was like, I think we're gonna bedifferent.
We were to some extent, like we were insome ways, but then other things were
like, we knew communication was important,but I-
(18:35):
Honestly, I sucked at communication.
Like, both women are kind of supposed tobe good at communicating.
Like, I just shoved it all down and Ididn't even know what I was feeling.
And I would just be angry so fast, but Ididn't want to blow up at my husband.
I didn't have that in me.
I just would cram it down and hate myselfsomehow.
Gosh, that's so painful.
(18:56):
Yeah.
It was, you know, but it's all stemmingfrom the same source, right?
Like we're all kind of, we're all feelingthat pain.
We're all having these expectations thathow things are going to be.
And then, you know, it doesn't work outthat way.
So then it's, well, what do I do now?
So what did you do?
What did you do differently or what didyou find in your quest?
(19:17):
Or how did you find it?
Well, everything you just said just gaveme the chills because I'm like, yes, so
nice to talk to somebody who, who just.
relates.
And I think for me what happened, it wasafter our kid's second birthday, right?
Like I had made cupcakes that are pink andblue for my daughter and my son.
(19:38):
And I got the perfect pictures Brenda.
I had the pink frosting on my daughter'snose and like blue cupcake on my son's
face.
Like I did it like gold star for me.
I just crushed that.
And I cleaned up everything in the kitchenand I was sitting on this bed and I was
like,
And my husband walked in the room and waslike, do you want a divorce?
(20:03):
Will that make you happy?
And I was like, what the F, what?
You know, I was like, I just dideverything, you know?
And I was so confused.
And then I thought to myself and was like,well, I'm like doing everything myself
anyway.
And would it be that different?
And it just, it took about two days for itto sink in.
(20:26):
I felt like, no, I really didn't want adivorce.
And I started looking online and I startedreading some different books, like love
languages and men are from Mars and womenare from Venus.
And my mindset was just really negative atthe time.
So when I read those books, I even readlike the birth order book.
And I was like, this is why we don't work.
(20:49):
It didn't give me hope.
It made me real.
I was like, we communicate differently.
We show our love differently.
This is why we're not working.
And so I was kind of like, do I throw inthe towel?
And it took, I think I had that moment ofgetting complacent.
Maybe this is just the way it's gonna be.
And then a girlfriend of mine came overand I remember like I was making a fresh
(21:12):
pot of coffee and we were gonna do somelike male bashing.
That's what we did.
Like she came over and we were just like,my husband is my husband that we'd walk
our kids together.
And she told me, she was like, Steph, Ifound this book.
I listened to it on Audible and this isreally different and I think you should
check it out.
And she told me about The Empowered Wifeand so I listened to it that weekend and
(21:38):
that had a different approach.
This had a very different feeling thananything that I'd read.
And girl, I read some books, you know,like I can fix this.
Like I'm a fixer.
This just had...
there was so much emphasis on theaccountability on my accountability and
(21:58):
what I can change just from my sidewithout trying to fix my, I really put the
emphasis on me.
And when I was listening to this book, Iwas like, this woman has been in my house.
Like all the negative examples are like,she knows everything, this Laura Doyle.
And yeah, I just remember feeling reallyvalidated.
(22:22):
and feeling, you know, these times, likemy whole relationship, I have this
metaphor of just walking up a mountain,hiking a mountain with my husband and like
he stopped to tie his shoe and I nevereven noticed.
I just kept going until I was on like thetop of a cliff, you know, by myself and
alone.
And this book just made me realize like itwasn't alone and these issues that I was
(22:45):
having were not like isolated incidentsof, you know, just.
Yeah, just feeling very supported andhopeful.
And the first thing.
So kind of like what you were sayingbefore, my first thing was like, well, I'm
going to prove her wrong.
I'm going to like, yeah, like the skillsshe got, you know, like I felt a
(23:10):
connection there.
But I was so resistant.
And like I say with the other books, I wasjust so negative that I was like, you
know, I've got nothing to lose.
So I'll try this.
The intimacy skills did not have me athello necessarily.
It sounded like wacky.
You're like, okay, she puts me and thenyou start reading what she suggests and
you're like...
Yeah.
(23:31):
Yeah, I was critical, but there was justenough of a different perspective on me
being able to change things because I'mcapable of anything.
I believe that.
I can do almost anything, but I can't doeverything.
So I was like...
why not give this a shot?
It's something different.
And so after I listened to that book, Icame back and like, my personality, I'm
(23:56):
like, I want the clip notes.
I want the cheap phrases like I want.
Let's wrap it up.
Yeah.
So I did.
I came back and had a it was right around.
It was the beginning of November.
And my husband, we were in the kitchen.
The kids are clipped into their highchairs.
And my husband was like, well,
What are we going to do for the holidays?
(24:17):
Are we going to your parents' house?
Are we going to go to my parents' house?
Are we hosting here?
And that's when I had this opportunity tojust say a cheap phrase.
You know, and I was so nervous, but all Isaid was I looked at my husband and was
like, whatever you think.
And he looked at me suspiciously and thenwalked right into our sliding glass door.
(24:41):
Bam.
Like he walked right into the, nobody washurting like the process of using the
skills.
He was okay.
But that's legitimately what happened.
It was such a different response from methat he just, he walked right into the
door.
It was, yeah.
And I just, it was undeniable that thiswas having a different effect.
And it was also, it was different for myhusband, the response that he got.
(25:04):
But for me, I felt a million poundslighter.
You know, I was like, Oh, I didn't realizeI don't want to be in charge of this.
Like, I don't have to do this.
I was taking on all this unnecessary justburden, you know?
And I was like, either way, like any waywe do this, it's going to be fine.
And I trust my husband, but whatever youthink.
And then I didn't have to deal with it.
(25:26):
Yeah.
So that was really like, it sounds likeyou were just all in at that point.
I'm just going to try this.
There were no.
There were no expectations almost, itsounds like.
You're just like, let's see what happensif I do this.
Yeah, that's also another thing that Ireally liked about the skills and I still
to this day, experimenting with what worksand what doesn't work and just having an
(25:49):
open mind.
And there's a huge emphasis on me beingthe expert in my life and knowing what's a
stretch and what's a tear and you know,things and I'm constantly changing and
evolving.
So I have to check in with myself a lot.
Yeah.
Well, I love, I love that this, this imagewith the kids strapped in the high chairs,
(26:10):
because you said that before earlier, youknow, this is like our battleground, the
kids are strapped in, we're going to havean adult conversation because you know,
the kids are semi contained.
Yeah, that's like another issue, right tolike when the kids aren't contained.
But I love, you know, you went from thisone scenario where the kids are in there.
And I can't even remember, tell me again,what happened in the previous story?
(26:32):
What did he say?
Oh, I don't even remember now.
I think what happened and like, yeah.
And then now you're okay.
So now you've done this work.
You've read all these books and then youread this book, which is different.
And now, you know, you're trying somethingdifferent.
You're just letting go, letting go of allthat responsibility in one little phrase
(26:56):
and just saying whatever, whatever youthink.
Almost like I'm done.
But like in a different way.
And then he walked smack into the slidingglass door, which I also love.
It's almost like he had his own wake upcall, you know, it's like he had to walk
into that door, you know, and nothing you,I mean, it wasn't anything you did, right?
(27:16):
You didn't like, yeah, I loved what yousaid.
No people were hurt in the, in the, butnow like he did that on his own.
He walked straight into that door.
But it's funny because it's like, it's adifferent response, right?
It's normally what he have engaged.
Like you would have said, Oh, well, maybewe'll go to my parents.
And then there would have been like a backand forth.
(27:37):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It is valid at some point.
Yeah.
There would have been a big conversationabout it and it would have gotten, I mean,
I can't say a hundred percent, but likefrom the past couple of years, I would
make the decision and then something wouldcome up and something would change and I
would get upset.
And, you know, and it was, it was all theplanning though, too.
(28:00):
This has been a huge shift in myrelationship is just planning.
traveling and I get so anxious, you know,we use the term net needless emotional
turmoil.
I get so anxious around planning thingsand as a mother packing everything.
Classic example, we're going to the beachon vacation.
(28:21):
Everything is perfect for the kids.
Mom forgets her bathing suit, you know?
Right?
It's like everything is wrong at thatpoint.
Right?
Yes.
Like plane is going down again aboard.
Yes.
And yeah, so there was another skill thatI used was honoring my limits of saying I
can't.
(28:42):
And you know, once that was the first stepin relinquishing control and kind of
changing the dance around travel plans waswhatever you think.
And I don't even remember what we did thatyear but we spent time with our family and
it was fine.
And even right now we're making plans.
I'm not making plans.
My husband's making plans for spring breakright now.
(29:05):
And we're going camping in southern NewMexico and we're going to Arizona and
we're doing this road trip.
And he was this morning, he's I bookedthis campsite and we're going to these
caverns and I booked a tour and I waslike, sounds great.
Nice.
That's it.
I love it.
Sounds great.
And I'm so grateful for you doing allthis, like expressing gratitude for that
(29:27):
too, because I totally trust him.
And I don't want to do it.
Okay.
So I'm loving this and I'm hearing you,you know, say, I don't even have to do it
anymore.
Like my husband is planning and I'm justimagining women listening to this podcast,
like starting to hyperventilate.
Of not controlling all this stuff, notlike doing all the things and not
(29:49):
preparing the snack bags and the makingsure we have enough diapers, all that
stuff.
So what would you say to that?
I would say, okay, so one of the firsttimes after a couple years ago, the first
time my husband was booking flights fortraveling, I was like, you've got this,
babe.
Thank you for doing this.
(30:10):
We like zigzagged across the country,Brenda.
I mean, I didn't even I pulled a CathyMurray, you know, she got the house sight
and seeing whatever her husband boughtthat for her.
I didn't even look at the plane tickets.
I didn't.
look at the itinerary, I was like, okay,we've got to be in Albuquerque to fly out
this date.
Great.
(30:30):
You know, and it was okay getting there.
We had two or three different planes wewere on, but the way home, I was like, why
are we going like, why are we going toChicago and then North Carolina and then
Denver and then all over the place?
And you know, even on the best day,traveling is challenging.
(30:52):
But like, as much as
you know, because you kind of feel like ahostage, but it wasn't, it wasn't my
burden.
Like it wasn't, I didn't, I just was ableto laugh and be like, well, this is an
adventure.
Let's go get some extra bags of chips.
You know, like it wasn't, if it had beenme, Brenda, that had done that, I would
have beat myself up and I would have beenso hard on myself.
(31:14):
And my kickass husband was just like,well, oops, I guess I'll learn from that.
And we had a laugh and we were going tomake it home.
It was going to be OK.
But like just changing that and having alaugh together and my kids were, you know,
we got through it, but it wasn't myburden.
You know, I didn't have to fix anything.
(31:35):
I'd say, yeah, this sucks, but we'll beokay.
Yeah.
It's fine.
I still can hear them hyperventilating.
Like, I still think they're like, what?
How?
No, I'm just gonna do the flights, youknow?
Like, I'll just do it.
How did you get to that point where youjust were like, I'm gonna, you know, he's
gonna do it.
(31:55):
I'm letting it go.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I think I have so much evidence of when Ihave relinquished control of my husband
stepping up, because like I said, I wasdoing so much that it was like I was
enabling him to just, you know, or right,so he wouldn't do anything.
And it was me pushing, you know, I'll justtake care of this.
(32:19):
I'll just
You know, I'll do everything.
And so when I pulled back, he stepped upin a way that I know that he wants to take
care of us.
You know, and he always does.
And it's not always perfect, but somethingthat I've learned from Laura Doyle in this
community is that it can be life lessons.
It doesn't have to be wife lessons.
(32:39):
And I was so sick of being that nagging.
like teaching him how to do something,reloading the dishwasher, you know what I
mean?
All the things that I just, I like how Ishow up so much better now than I did
before.
Making all those plans and just being incontrol of everything, having my hands on
(33:02):
everything was exhausting, you know?
And like that girl that was lightheartedand carefree when I first met my husband.
Like she was gone for so long and I reallylike her.
She's super fun.
You sound super fun.
You are so fun.
But yes, I get it that she, who is thatperson now, you know, when you're in the
(33:26):
thick of babies and feet up in the air,you know, where all your autonomy is gone,
it seems.
Yeah.
So it was, it was just worth it to me formyself.
show up calm and relaxed and have myhusband's back.
And it was, yeah, it was just worth it totry.
And you know what, if it didn't work, if Iwas freaking out the whole time, I'll
(33:49):
change it next time.
Right.
You know?
Yeah, it's just that excitement.
You know, like what I focus on increasesand the connection that I had, those first
couple of trips with my husband was sodifferent than the past, you know?
And I was just like, this is where it'sat, you know?
Like just...
Having that connection across the airportwhere he looks for me and holds up a bag
(34:14):
of chips to see if I want that kind or theother kind.
Just so cute and just receiving that.
And it also felt bringing up receiving, itfelt really feminine too, just to be taken
care of.
I don't have to do all this.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, Steph.
Well, that sounds so much lighter.
(34:36):
That's probably nice.
And even as we're talking about it, likethe beginning is like, it's so, it starts
out so heavy, right?
Like you're dealing with big things,infertility.
I just, so many women I feel can relate tothat and that pain and that, yeah, just
that, just how difficult that is to gothrough and to feel totally alone in it.
(35:00):
Like husband is off in his own world.
He's worried about what people think, notabout, you know.
his wife right now and starting there.
But then, you know, we see this wholestory progress and there's lots more in
the middle, right?
But then at this point where we'relaughing and just talking about.
(35:22):
The lightness in your relationship now,the fun, and it's so refreshing to hear,
you know, and to, and to have that, tohave that progression from this is where I
was and like, this is where I am now.
And I feel like.
If I were listening, I'd be what was inthe middle.
Tell me more.
And I know you did.
You like mentioned some things that youdid, you know, like you used a phrase that
(35:48):
was different than anything you'd donebefore instead of, you know, trying to
plan out the thing you just said, whateveryou referred him back to himself.
What do you think?
You know, tell me what, what you want todo or what you had in mind and just having
a totally different response.
And then, you know, this plane, this,this.
trip where you're zigzagging across thecountry, but you are good.
(36:11):
You are enjoying the time.
What a difference.
It's, it's really incredible to hear.
You're so welcome because I know you didthat.
I know you did that experiment.
I want to say, I know you did the work andI know it is work.
It's just a different kind of work, butit's like a work that you get to.
(36:36):
you can relax into.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I think when you say work, something thatcomes up for me too was the foundation of
these skills is self care, right?
And that is the skill that I resist themost.
So when I really got into this, like beingthis, I am super efficient and I'm capable
(37:02):
and I can get stuff done.
And it would be just like on the bottom ofmy to-do list.
You know, and like you're saying before,taking care of the kids on top of it, I'd
be like, if and then trap also, if I justget this done, then I'll have time for me.
And I mean, when I was, it was before theskills, like I had a hard time looking in
(37:23):
the mirror.
I had a hard time liking what I saw andreally working on as much as relationship
coaching for my marriage, like.
that relationship with myself needed a lotof work.
And, you know, like I would try, I wouldlike half-ass self care.
I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna, I'll dye myhair and I would get a kit from the
grocery store and my hair would be orange,you know?
(37:46):
And I'd be like, oh, well, okay, I tried,you know?
Yeah, I'm like, oh no, I've got to go fixthat.
And just changing little things.
It self care was a stretch for me, youknow, like going on a girls trip was not
in my radar for a while.
But just, you know, I remember one timebeing on vacation, being on vacation on
(38:10):
the beach, and I would go to the grocerystore and I would buy, I call it vacation
creamer for my coffee.
Okay.
And you know, like, you know, because Ideny myself so much.
I would just and I love like this vanillaalmond, you know, creamer.
And I'd be like, oh, yeah, I've got myvacation creamer.
(38:31):
And I'd be so happy in the morning.
And I was like, this is so dumb.
Just buy it every day.
Buy it at home.
Stop denying yourself.
It sounds so simple, but it was likeunlearning something in my brain.
It was like retraining that.
It's OK.
It's OK to do nice things for yourself.
(38:53):
It was a journey.
to get to self care.
And you know, when I did get up to havinga girls weekend, like going mountain
biking for two days, trusting my husbandand leaving, you know?
And just, and there were trips, I rememberone of the first trips I went on, I was
just like, I almost couldn't enjoy itbecause I was so worried about what they
(39:14):
were doing at home.
And like, when I left, when I left thisgirls weekend, I got, you know, a half an
hour.
down the highway and was just alreadygetting resentful because I was like, I
know I'm gonna walk into a dirty home.
I know I'm gonna have to clean everythingup and do all this work.
And yeah.
(39:35):
All the relaxation or whatever, it'scanceled.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I just, I had to work on all that too,the resentment and just letting go of
expectations and just being grateful.
for really having that time and makingsure I'm filled up and really taking care
of myself.
Yeah.
(39:55):
Oh yeah, I can talk, like I hear thejourney, you know, like it wasn't just,
you know, you start trying things and it'schanging things, but it's like this whole
process.
And I really hear that it was an internalthing too.
It was a changing of how you viewedyourself, you know, and what almost like
I'm worth it.
I'm worth the fancy creamer.
(40:16):
that makes me happy in the morning, youknow?
Which like you said, it sounds so simpleand it's, yeah, like maybe some people
would be like, of course get the creameryou want, you know?
But I totally get that like denyingyourself things in the name of the family
budget or, you know, or the martyr, youknow, and we don't think of it as being a
martyr at the time, right?
(40:37):
When we're in it, we're like, this is, I'msacrificing for my family.
Like this is noble, what I'm doing here.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I like want to start a club.
Can we start the like self care was a hardskill club or I'm sure we can put a better
a better name for it, but I literallyskipped over that chapter in the book.
(40:59):
I was like, yeah, yeah.
No, this is not I don't need this.
I don't like this is not helpful.
This is fluff in this book.
Yeah.
How'd that go for you?
I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.
Yeah, I'm like, ugh.
It took me six years to really even, toreally learn it.
(41:22):
I didn't even learn it.
I didn't, I tried other things and thenthings would be good and it was just me in
the book for a long time.
And I didn't even have the book.
I literally got it from the library thefirst time I read it and I saw some
immediate shifts in my.
in my mindset and I noticed some thingsand then it was like back to the library
and I was like, okay, I kind of rememberthis.
Like things were just okay, you know, theywere good enough.
(41:43):
And then we'd have some big life decisioncome up like buying a house and I would
just go down this spiral.
I talk about that a lot.
Just I had this negative spiral that Iwould go into when my husband did or said
something that I just didn't understand ordidn't agree with or just thought he was
like coming from a whole other planet.
(42:05):
people that don't know how to do life.
That's really how it felt.
Like he came from the planet of likenannies and I don't know.
Yeah.
But anyway, what was I even telling you?
But yeah, it just it just extended myjourney.
Like it wasn't I, I had to, that wassomething I had to work on.
(42:28):
And I had to really, I think it went handin hand with vulnerability for me because
I felt really vulnerable to
to do anything.
Like, I can't even say that.
I see the duality in all of it because itwas like, I was doing stuff for myself
sometimes, but doing it on a regular basiswas a huge stretch.
Like the daily self care, the dailyfilling up was a huge stretch for me.
(42:53):
And just the guilt, like it's still there.
I still feel it, but I have it now that ifI do it, I'm gonna be better on the other
side of it.
You know, like.
I know how it feels to interact with myhusband after I've done the self care or
how I interact with my kids after I'vemade that a priority.
Um, but yeah, I definitely resist it.
(43:15):
And I've, I was just at this thing likethis past weekend where a few women
mentioned, like somebody actuallymentioned this and we weren't taught.
This was just a friend thing.
Nobody knows about the skills that we'retalking about.
And she's self care is a four letter word.
I can't even.
I can't even think about it.
I just, it is not okay.
(43:37):
But it was funny because she was alsotalking about something that she's doing
now.
And she's like kind of just put everythingelse to the side and she's just focusing
on this one thing.
And I'm like, girl, just keep doing that.
Cause it was like a self-care thing.
It was something that was healing her.
It sounded like to me, it was somethingthat was bringing her healing.
And I don't know if she saw it necessarilyas self-care but I was like.
(44:01):
I just related to that so much when shewas like, it is, she was like, it's a four
letter word to do that.
I'm like, yeah, I remember being there.
I remember being there.
It's not a four letter word to me anymore.
It's so freeing and beautiful, but even, Imean, I can get in back in those habits of
just doing all the things and tellingmyself this makes me feel good.
(44:25):
Yeah.
It's weird how our brain does that.
Gosh, I just relate to everything you saidand the downward spirals and getting stuck
in that and just the resisting self-care.
I feel like I would have these wins, thesesuccesses with the skills and then be
hitting speed bumps.
It was like I could only get this farbecause I wasn't doing self-care.
(44:46):
And it was like during relationship coachtraining.
Like I had the book and was doing that foryears and then I went into relationship
coach training.
And it wasn't until I was almost done withthat I really, yeah, took changed up my
self care and I constantly have to do it.
It's a skill that I need to change andcheck in on and, you know, be accountable
(45:09):
a lot.
So, yeah, and I so get that.
And it evolved to like I found that Ifound that evolves in some stuff that I
was really experimenting with self care inthe beginning, too, because I was like, I
don't even know.
I don't even know.
what would make me ridiculously happy.
That just sounded weird to me too.
There isn't anything, like I really feltthat way.
(45:30):
There's nothing that makes me just like oncloud nine.
And so I was like, well, I used to likedance.
So like, maybe I'll, I'm gonna commit.
I'm gonna go back to dancing.
And that was really good for me, but itwasn't, it wasn't self care at first
because I took this body that hadn'tdanced in 15 or 20 years and was trying
(45:53):
to.
do things, you know?
And so it was more, that became more ofjust a mental exercise for me to, oh, I
hate myself right now.
Oh, I hate my body right now.
Oh, I hate the way I look in the mirror,but I'm going to keep going.
And I would come from it miserable somenights.
Like I hate it.
I can't go back.
So, but it was like this experiment and,you know, eventually after doing it long
(46:17):
enough or going there and having a reallygreat song play and just relax into it.
And I'd be like, Oh.
this, you know, it was, it actually was aprocess to get back to this point where it
brought me a lot of joy.
So anyway, self care, self care can be ajourney, I guess, is away from that.
Yeah, dancing.
Yeah.
After you've been out of it for 15 or 20years, I, yeah, I could just imagine just
(46:42):
having an expectation on myself that like,I did this for a long time.
I should be good at this.
I should be able to just, you know, justlike riding a bike.
Yeah, that's challenging.
But finding
I wasn't that good.
Like I hadn't done it that much.
It was like one of those like childhooddreams.
I would have loved to do it more but wecouldn't.
Like there was just, so I did otherthings, you know, that kind of scratched
(47:03):
that itch.
And then when I went to college, like Itried to take a class or two every
semester, you know, so I had thefoundation.
But I was also with other, it was quite a,it's quite a mix in the class that I was
going to.
But there were some dancers, you know, andyeah.
So yeah, it was.
Anyway, that's a story for another day,but yeah, it was like an experimental
(47:24):
thing though.
I'm like, I used to, I love dancing, solet's try it.
And at first it was rough, but yeah, itwas really good.
I love going now and being able to look inthe mirror and say, I like where I'm at.
Look at where I came from and it is moreself-care now.
Like I can go to dance and I'm just likeso relaxed.
(47:45):
But at first I couldn't relax because Iwas so up in my head.
I had needless emotional turmoil.
Right, totally.
But like you said, it's experimenting.
I'm the expert and it was something that Iwas like, I'm gonna stick with this, I'm
gonna see how it goes, you know, and Ikept it up.
And we do a dance performance at the endof the year.
It's like a big thing where it's likedowntown, it's in this big theater.
(48:08):
And so I worked, this is the year that Idid coach training.
So I'm like, all right, I got a freshfriend.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I got to practice theseskills, right?
So I'm going to do dance.
And so I was doing dance and I get to theend of the year where we do it, where
we're doing this performance.
I'm only in three dances.
A lot of girls are in like eight to 10,but I'd worked, you know, really hard.
(48:29):
And I, and I got to that point and I didthat performance and I had so much fun.
Hang out, hanging out with all the girls.
Like we were kind of the ones with fewerdances.
We were like in the basement, like thatwas our getting ready area.
So I was just like hanging out withpeople.
I was part of something and it was so fun.
Like we did the performance and it endedand like looking back, I'm like, K the
(48:55):
whole year getting up there was just thismental, physical battle.
But I did that and that was fun.
And I was like, okay, I wanna keep doingthis.
Props to you.
Oh my gosh, that's so brave on top of it.
Oh gosh.
It was crazy.
It is crazy.
And it's still I love it now.
(49:15):
And I feel like I'm a part of thecommunity.
I'm a part of, you know, and that wassomething that was really missing to from
my life was just people.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's such a good point.
I think I would confuse some self cares ormaybe I think I've manipulated every
single skill.
(49:36):
Yeah.
But like self care, I'd be like, well,
You know, I love solitude and I know a lotof moms can relate to that.
But what would happen for me would be Iwould isolate myself, you know, and it
would turn into sort of like I.
Yeah, just isolating myself and not havingmuch contact with other people.
(49:56):
And it made me a little prickly.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
I know for me to coming out of it, it waslike.
since like, what is that called?
Sensory overload to go from my solitudespace to not anymore.
So it was like, good feeling gone, youknow?
Like as soon as.
Like quills out, I'm nervous.
(50:17):
Yes, yeah.
I always think we say it all the time,like that there's a scene in Nemo, finding
Nemo, where like, they're like goingalong, they're all happy and then Marlon's
good feeling gone, you know, and it'salways in our house.
But yeah, I was like, yeah, I lovesolitude too.
But yeah, if the second I.
get back into real life, it's gone, thenit's okay.
(50:38):
Maybe I should look at that and see, youknow, evaluate it.
And that's one of the biggest things forme was just that space to like evaluate
what was going on inside of me.
Yeah.
And to kind of take the focus off myhusband for a minute.
Cause he was the prop, like he was thereason, at least in my mind back then,
(50:59):
that all of this stuff was coming up forme.
Why I was upset, why.
It was the things he said or did or didn'tdo that was causing me the turmoil.
And so having the space to just look at itand to experiment with things like going
on a girls trip and just seeing how Ifeel, you know?
How do I feel right now?
What do I want?
And sometimes it was like, I kind of wantto be with my family right now, which was
(51:22):
weird because I had been with them somuch, I didn't even have that.
So it's such a great, for me, it's justbeen full circle to where I just wanted to
get away all the time and I couldn't, Ididn't know how I just didn't know how to
leave ever just even for something smallto where now I can leave and I'm like, Oh,
I don't feel like I need to leave all thetime or I don't want to leave all the time
(51:43):
because I get all the solitude I need or Iget, you know, getting those outside
experiences with other women.
And, and one of the things that I thoughtabout when we were talking about that was
like, it's like a daily thing though.
It's not like the girls trips are awesome.
So fun.
Right.
And they throw you up.
But it's for me, it's also like this dailything.
(52:04):
So I have really good friends that, youknow, I talked to on occasion, but like
dance for me, it was like every week, oncea week or twice a week, I'm going and I'm
interacting with people, you know?
Like it was like a constant practice.
It wasn't just like a one, one hit wonder,I guess.
Yeah.
No, I totally relate to that.
And just, I mean.
(52:25):
kudos to you for changing things up somuch and taking that pause to actually
think about your feelings.
That was such, that was really hard forme.
Cause like we were talking about before, Iwould just shove everything down.
And unlike you, I was like a soda can whenyou would shake it up and up, like I would
explode.
And just taking the time to process, youknow, just to like, how do I feel?
(52:47):
What do I want?
Why, like, why am I so angry right now?
What's really going on?
Was a huge shift for me.
And I know like even the social self-care,yesterday I had lunch with a girlfriend.
We just had some tacos and shared somefried ice cream.
And by the time I got home, I was able totake my dog for a quick walk.
(53:09):
But by the time the kids got off theschool bus, like we were, I was there, I
was present.
And I was excited to see them.
Where there was a lot of days where I'd belike, the bus is coming, ah, ah.
You know?
I had enough.
I used to think that if I did that, go andhave lunch, I would be too burnt out to
(53:31):
show up for my kids.
Like somehow, even though I'd gone for afive mile run, like it just things were
not.
I just wasn't checking in with myself.
And so last night, like I was able to makecookies with my daughter and my son, you
know, went on a bunny hunt with myhusband.
And we were able to, you know, come backtogether and have a good time.
(53:52):
And.
You know, watch a little bit of Spider-Manlast night.
Like it was just nice.
And you're exactly what you're saying.
Like I was exactly where I wanted to be.
Yeah.
What a, what an amazing feeling.
Yeah.
So refreshing.
It's so refreshing to even like when yousay it, I totally get like that.
The kids, the kids are home.
(54:13):
It's like, no, but then like I heard fromyou, bring it on, you know, that's how it
feels for me when I'm filled up on selfcare, I'm like, bring it on.
I'm ready.
You know, let's do this.
And I love how, like how you describedyour last night, you know, like your
husband's doing something with one of thekids you've divided and conquered.
It's not just you and the two kidsanymore.
(54:34):
And you're doing something.
I mean, that's another, I'm like thinkinglike how I have a hard time, like cooking
with my kids and I'm like, Oh, I want tobe that mom.
I want to have that, but I can't cause Ijust, I just want to.
All up in it and I just, they're doingeverything wrong and I can't do it.
So it's something that I'm working on.
you but I feel like when I'm like if itwas gonna happen those are the moments
(54:59):
that it could happen in you know right andhappen yeah I get that too and there are
the times where like I check in and I'mlike this is not the right day to bake
cookies and you can have extra screen timetonight you know like I put so much
pressure on once again like how thisshould look.
(55:21):
that it was costing me the connection withmy kids, with my husband, because, you
know, it's supposed to look like this.
And I was showing up just resentful anddidn't want to be there.
There are times growing down where, no, Ireally don't want to read a book tonight.
I really, I really just don't want to doit.
And saying I can't to my kids was hard.
And saying that to my husband, cause I cando it, but I'm not going to be happy about
(55:45):
it.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like it's finding.
finding a balance with that and pausingand really asking and asking myself and
yeah, just being real honest.
Yeah, no, I love that so much because youhave, I just was, somebody was telling me
this the other day, the three indicatorsof a successful family or whatever good
(56:07):
outcomes for teenagers or adult childrenor whatever are like reading to get or
reading with them, family dinner and someother thing.
But to have that become an expectation andto have all that pressure on yourself.
Well, if I don't go read the storytonight, what's going to happen here?
(56:27):
You have somebody else has already toldyou, the research has been done.
These are simple things.
But being able to, this is not a cookiebaking night.
And knowing that about yourself, I feellike that is what gives you the power to
be able to do the cookie baking night onthe right night.
So just, yeah, it's just really powerful.
(56:48):
Well, we've been at this for an hour nowand I feel like it's chocked full, like so
much good stuff in here.
Yeah.
But what, if you were just to tellsomebody how, like, how would you start?
If you wanted to, if you're like, yeah, ifthey're hearing your story and they're
being like, okay, that sounds awesome, ormaybe even that sounds too good to be
(57:09):
true.
and they're curious and they're like, isit too good to be true?
What would you, like, where would youpoint them or what would you suggest that
they do?
Oh, it's so loaded.
I want to give everything, right?
Right, yeah, yeah.
You've already given so much, so nopressure.
You really have.
Sharing your story is so beautiful.
(57:31):
Oh, thank you so much.
I think to anybody who's curious, I wouldinvite them to experiment, especially with
self-care.
with experimenting, that would be my firststep.
And instead of blowing past it like I did,like we both did.
You know, I changed the prospectus on it alittle bit.
(57:51):
This could be the most fun homework youwill ever have in your life.
You know, like this could, this has thepossibility of you becoming ridiculously
happy or whatever, you know, whatever yourvision is.
And that vision can change.
But I mean, I would really.
get in touch with you, get off anybodyelse's page and just figure out what makes
(58:15):
you smile.
You know, I think that was just a hugechange for me.
Just instead of having the expectations ona date night or whatever else it was, like
when my husband comes home, I might stillbe in my long johns from skiing.
The other night I was wearing oniongoggles when my husband came home and I
was chopping onions with like...
You know, a beanie on and my ski socks onstill and slippers.
(58:40):
And I was smiling and my kids weredancing, you know, and asking Alexa random
questions and whatnot, but he walked inand we stopped and we hugged.
And having that smile on my face makes allthe difference.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love too.
And you created it.
You know, it wasn't like, I'm gonna slapthis smile on when he walks to the door.
(59:01):
It was like, no, I'm.
Like it sounds like you were justgenuinely happy doing your thing.
Yeah.
Love that.
Well, thank you so much for sharing that.
And this has been so fun.
I want to do it some more.
So let's get you back here.
Thank you so much, Stephanie, for comingon the show, for being willing to share
(59:21):
something so vulnerable and so raw.
And.
And then to show how, you know, what youdid different and how it is now because it
does sound, it sounds really awesome.
Like I feel really inspired.
I'm like, all right, I got to recommit tolike my daily self care.
What really brings me joy.
So thank you.
(59:43):
Thank you, Brenda.
Yeah, you're welcome.
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