August 31, 2024 • 36 mins
This episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast discusses the challenges of employment in rural areas, focusing on Wisbech. The guests, Russell Beale and Terry Jordan, share their insights and experiences. They discuss the employment statistics of Anglian Water, the typical industries in Wisbech, and the impact of mechanization on labor opportunities. They also explore the importance of connectivity, such as the need for a railway station and improved transport links. The conversation highlights the difficulties faced by employers and employees in rural areas, including the lack of skilled workers and low-wage, part-time, or zero-hours contracts. The guests emphasize the need for regeneration, more medium-sized businesses, a wider range of jobs, and increased apprenticeships to improve employment prospects in rural areas and thus reduce the risk of someone becoming homeless.
In this episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast, host Matt McChlery speaks with Ed, who shares his personal experience of homelessness. Ed discusses the challenges he faced while being homeless, including the cycle of crime and imprisonment to have a roof over his head. He also highlights the difficulties of finding basic necessities like food and shelter while living on the streets. Ed emphasizes the importance of understanding and compassion towards homeless individuals and dispels misconceptions about homelessness. He expresses gratitude for the support he received from The Ferry Project, which helped him turn his life around and find stability.
Websites
Takeaways
- Employment in rural areas, such as Wisbech, faces challenges due to factors like mechanization, lack of connectivity, and limited job opportunities.
- The absence of a railway station and poor transport links hinder employment prospects and economic growth in rural areas.
- Employers struggle to attract skilled workers locally, while employees face issues like low wages, part-time work, and insecure contracts.
- Regeneration, the development of medium-sized businesses, a wider range of jobs, and increased apprenticeships are crucial for improving employment prospects in rural areas.
- Addressing the complex issue of rural homelessness requires not only providing housing but also supporting individuals in finding stable employment and rebuilding their lives.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction 00:35 Guest Introduction: Russell Beale and Terry Jordan 03:25 The Impact of Connectivity on Employment in Wisbech 05:23 The Struggles Faced by Employers and Employees in Rural Areas 09:43 Attracting Graduates Back to Rural Areas 13:56 The Role of Regeneration in Improving Employment Prospects 18:14 The Importance of Apprenticeships and Support for Homeless Individuals 22:31 The Link Between Employment Prospects and Rural Homelessness 30:38 Hopes and Dreams for Employment in Rural Areas 36:08 Conclusion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
This is the Rural Homelessness Podcast, where we discuss the important issues around ruralhomelessness, hear from those affected by it, and offer some solutions.
Brought to you by the award -winning homelessness charity, The Ferry Project.
Welcome to the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
(00:28):
Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
I am your host, Matt McChlery and thank you so much.
for joining me on this episode today.
Now, on this episode, we are going to be speaking about the challenges of employment inrural areas.
And I'm joined by two guests, Russell Beale, who is the engagement specialist at AnglianWater, and also Terry Jordan, who is the clerk and the responsible financial officer for
(00:57):
Wisbech Town Council.
So let's welcome our guests to the show today.
Hello, Russell.
Good morning.
And hello, Terry, welcome.
Good morning.
Thank you for joining us today on the Rural Homelessness podcast.
And we're going to be chatting about employment in rural areas.
(01:19):
And both of you experience business and employment and things like that in rural areas.
So it would be great to get your thoughts and opinions on the topic.
Let's start with you, Russell.
Please can you give us an insight into your work?
and the company you're a part of and its employment statistics and all that kind of thing.
(01:41):
Yeah, thanks Matt.
So I work for Anglia Water.
I actually work for the Anglia Water Alliance.
The Anglia Water Alliance is a sort framework partnership.
So a lot of companies as part of our supply chain.
The Anglia Water Alliance is basically
(02:03):
has basically been set up for the delivery of our capital program.
So lots of work to do there, but also, as I say, lots of opportunities really foremployment there.
In terms of me, I work on the stakeholder engagement side.
(02:24):
So I do a lot of liaison with local authorities.
and other sort planning application consultees so I do quite a bit of work around that.
I also have a role to work with Business in the Community.
Business in the Community is a membership organization, it's based in London.
Companies like Anglia Water subscribe to business in the community and it's all about youknow what can business do to support communities and obviously we've been doing a lot
(02:55):
supporting Wisbech over
think it's 12 years now Terry.
It probably is.
Quite a long time.
But as I say I get involved in that stuff.
I think you mentioned employment stats there Matt if I remember correctly.
We've got about 5 ,000 people working directly in Anglingwater but if you take all ofthose people in the supply chain you can certainly triple that sort of number.
(03:23):
So quite a big organisation.
Thanks Russell, that's really good to know.
And Terry, as someone who works in Wisbech and knows Wisbech quite well, what are some ofthe typical industries that offer employment in this rural location?
Thanks Matt, yes I think I do know Wisbech quite well.
I'm currently the clerk to the town council but I have worked in local government, juststarted my 48th year in local government and I've worked for the county council, the
(03:51):
district council and various town and parishes so all of that is involved.
supporting people in Wisbech Town Council is very keen to support people in Wisbech in anyway that it can and it works with lots of partners including Anglia Water to deliver some
of its ambitions.
Traditionally the employment in Wisbech has tended to be in agriculture or associatedbusinesses such as canning, road haulage, those types of activities.
(04:22):
However obviously as agriculture has
moved forward in terms of mechanisation, there's fewer labour opportunities than thereused to be.
There are some very large factory employers such as Nestle Purina and employers generallyin Wisbech either tend to be large or very small.
There are very few medium sized employers.
(04:43):
So for example, if a large business closed that would have a significant impact on theemployment situation in the town.
Wisbech is fairly unique in that
for example, towns like March, they've got a number of small medium sized businesses andthey've also got much more employment in terms of, shall we say administrative services
and financial services that appears to be the case in Wisbech.
(05:08):
Apart from sort of factory work, as I've mentioned, companies such as Nestle, majority ofpeople in the town then either tend to work in retail or hospitality.
However, since the sort of pandemic in the three or four years ago,
That's had a significant impact on town centres in terms of certainly retail and obviouslythere again that's had an impact on the amount of employability that there is in the town
(05:34):
centre.
I don't think Wisbech is alone in that.
I think that that sort of impact on the sort of the town centre and the whole idea ofcommunities gathering in a centre, I think that that has been dramatically impacted by
Covid and sort of what we've seen since then across the country.
What do you think?
I think you're absolutely right.
think people's sort of shopping habits have changed, the way that they work has changed.
(05:59):
Fewer people are actually coming into town to work.
So there again, that has an impact on the town centre.
And I agree, Matt, Wispage is not standalone in that situation.
I think we're reflective of the national trends and we're also finding the same impact onour traditional market that we operate in the town centre.
But we do what we can as a town council.
We run events in the town centre.
(06:19):
We do other activity to try to pull people into that space to spend their money in theshops, which obviously consequently helps to retain and generate employment opportunities.
Russell, does Anglia Water find a difference in employees from a rural background asopposed to an urban background?
(06:41):
What's your experience with that?
Interesting question.
I would say
In terms of aspiration of some of those youngsters, from what I've seen, you know, fromstudents coming out of Thomas Clarkson, for example, we've done a bit of work there.
(07:03):
don't personally think there's any difference in the aspiration.
I think the difference is probably in the opportunity.
Can I just interrupt you there, Russell, just for a bit, just to explain to our listenersthat Thomas Clarkson is a secondary school in Wisbech.
It does sound like a bloke's name.
because it is, but it is actually a school named after him.
(07:24):
just in case listeners are getting confused.
Sorry, carry on Russell, what were you saying?
So, so Thomas Clarkson Academy, we've done some work with the Academy over a period oftime.
We've looked at things like sixth form interviews.
And so having some direct experience of that, as I say, I think when you talk to thosestudents, the
(07:48):
aspiration is there but maybe the opportunity within Wisbech locally is not there so it'sthat sort of difference but I think you know I met with some of the apprentices at the
College of West Anglia a couple of weeks ago and to be honest they were amazing,absolutely amazing.
(08:08):
They were pleased to have the opportunity I think to be on a course, they were onconstruction course.
sort of utility operative type course.
These are courses sponsored by Anglia, but I think from what I was seeing in terms of theopportunity they were having, the delight in being on those courses was there for all to
(08:36):
see really.
And all credit to the College of West Anglia for helping to build the confidence for
you know, sort of driving those opportunities forward.
It was really great to see.
I must admit, for me, I've been involved in the education sector for about a decade and ahalf.
Not anymore, but I was.
(08:58):
One of the things I've noticed is that there tends to be a gap.
Kids come to school and they stay in education here.
But when it comes to higher education, when it comes to university, all of a sudden,
There's nothing really in the rural area.
So they all have to go to a big city somewhere to go to a university.
(09:23):
But then the problem, and that's okay because, you know, big cities can support that kindof infrastructure that that's needed for that type of higher education.
But it's then attracting them back again.
It's kind of you come, you go to school, you leave, and then you never come back.
(09:43):
So what can we do?
What are your thoughts of trying to attract the graduates back into a rural economy tohelp contribute to what's going on here?
Have we got any ideas there?
Partly it's about the reality of the rural situation compared to a city situation.
(10:04):
I think one of the problems that Wisbech has is the public transport connectivity.
We've been talking quite a bit, Terry, haven't we, about the reopening of the railway lineand just improving that connectivity.
I think one of the ways forward maybe to see, if you could get on the train in WisbechBeach and be in the middle of Cambridge in sort of 50 minutes time, you would see a lot
(10:30):
more people living in the town.
Okay, they're not necessarily working within the town, but...
If they're commuting back to Wisbech that would help that local economy.
It would be a bit of a game changer, I think, in terms of more opportunities in the town.
But it also help to take the town forward from a regeneration point of view.
(10:54):
So I think this is partly about connectivity.
But it needs something like that to see some transformation, I think, in terms of moreskilled opportunities.
within the town.
you know, don't know if you agree with that Terry, but you know, that's, those are some ofthe thoughts I have.
(11:15):
Yeah, I agree with you.
I agree with you completely.
And I think all those people, even if they are going, you know, from Wisbech to Cambridgeto work, they're still living locally.
they, at the weekends, for example, they can be putting money back into the local economy,which there again helps to, as I say, maintain and generate employment in the town.
That's interesting.
You mentioned the Wisbech railway line.
(11:36):
Wisbech is a fairly large town to not have a railway station.
There are much smaller towns around us that do have railway stations, so it is a bit of amystery.
But we've heard about this over the years.
Do any of you know where we're up to with that?
Because you kind of hear something and then you don't.
Do we know where we're at at the moment with the Wisbech Rail and possibly maybe gettingsomething to help improve that kind of connectivity?
(12:04):
Terry may be a better place than me to answer that question, but I know there's appraisalsgoing on, Terry, in the background.
know the Cambridge and Peterborough combined authority have been working with Network Railaround that process.
What we do know, Terry, is that it's a very long -winded process.
think it's a very long -winded process and a very expensive process.
(12:28):
I think we're talking potentially, as I've heard in the past, hundreds of millions ofpounds to get.
rail back into Wisbech.
my understanding is it's still on the agenda as an issue, as Russell said, how quickly itcan be achieved.
Who knows?
But the Wisbees 2020 Vision Partnership, it was high on its agenda and it was reallypushing for it.
(12:52):
And as I understood it, we had the support of the local MP.
But it's like a lot of things, these things take a lot of pushing through.
And I think, as you said, Matt,
I think Wisbech is one of the largest towns in the UK without a railway station andideally it's something we'd all like to see addressed.
You make a good point there Terry, know this if you had this opportunity with the rail Ithink you would see a change in Wisbech.
(13:17):
know there's like the town centre it's been struggling like a lot of town centres but whatwe're seeing in Wisbech of course is buildings almost physically collapsing.
Not just border boarded up but
I've been seeing some real dilapidation in terms of those buildings and I think it needssomething of a big change, something like the railway to start to see that turnaround.
(13:45):
not saying that's everything that needs to happen, but I think it needs something of thatorder to start to see some real change.
As Terry's point there, if you can start to see that, it certainly then starts to generatenew opportunities for people within the town.
I think also, if I may, picking up Matt's point about lack of opportunity for graduates inthe town.
(14:12):
think there again, if graduates are looking for somewhere to settle irrespective of theemployment, they're looking for other activity and what else is going on.
And for a lot of people, if they feel that Whispidge is really isolated because it's
has poor transport connectivity, and particularly in a rail station, that's probablyanother reason why they would look to other places, shall we say, such as Peterborough,
Cambridge, et cetera, that have those facilities.
(14:33):
Coming back to employment more specifically, we've already mentioned one of the barriersto employment in a rural area such as Beach is this transport connectivity.
Terry, what are some of the other challenges that are faced by employers as well asemployees in rural areas like Wisbech?
I think as I understand is that some employers do find it difficult to attract employeeswith the right skills locally.
(15:02):
And in fact, I was at a meeting yesterday hosted by the National Trust at Peckover andthey were saying that whenever they have a vacancy linked to some of their property or
assets in Wisbech, especially management positions, they don't get applications from localpeople, which is something they'd like to try to address.
So, you know, that
probably goes back to the point about people wanting or not wanting to work in Wisbech ifthey are graduates.
(15:26):
I think some of the employers, mean, also I'd like to commend Anglin Water for the workthat they're doing in terms of growing people through the College of West Anglia, through
their apprenticeships into roles locally.
And they've had some real successes in that.
I think also employers not only suffer, we're saying employees might suffer from lack ofconnectivity and transport.
(15:48):
I think the same is affected by employers.
They also struggle with no railway station.
The fact that not much of the A47 is dueled.
And I think Whispage is perceived as being in the middle of nowhere, whether that's anaccurate assessment or not.
I think there are also sometimes poor connectivity, digitally, not just in terms ofphysical infrastructure.
(16:11):
And people can feel cut off and some businesses really struggle if they need to do a lotof their, I was going say, need to a lot of their business online.
every business will need to be connected in some way, even if they don't transact theirbusiness that way in terms of information that they need to achieve or, also financial
returns and things that counts and things that they need to submit.
(16:33):
But I think transport is a big issue, certainly for employees.
For example, if somebody lives in March but works in Wisbech and need to rely on the bus,there's now no bus service on a Sunday between those two largest towns.
So people then physically can't get...
get to work on that one day of the week.
So I think that is an issue, but it's something that people are trying to address.
(16:55):
And I think the combined authority of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, I think the busservice review is being carried out.
And there's also a feminine and transport and access group of which I'm a member.
And there again, it looks to improve or address issues in terms of rural transport, but itis difficult because a lot of it comes down to funding and no longer is the case that
(17:16):
that local authorities can put significant subsidies into bus services.
I think another issue for employees, I as I understand it, unemployment is low andpossibly certainly no more than the national average, but a lot of the work is either part
-time, low wage, zero hours contract, or a combination of all of those things, which Idon't think helps.
(17:46):
obviously employees in terms of security and stability and the ability, for example, ifyou've got a zero hours contract, it's going to be very difficult to get a mortgage
because some weeks you could be earning no money.
So it's those sort of implications and situations for employees.
don't know whether obviously Russell's got anything to add because obviously Anglia Wateris a large employer and it operates in the town.
(18:11):
Well,
You know, it's quite a complex picture, I think, in terms of employment opportunities inthe town.
I briefly mentioned the apprentices that are coming out of the college.
We've had some wonderful people join that Anglin Water Alliance.
You know, there's been some real success stories there.
(18:32):
You've probably seen we're building a pipeline through Fenland at the moment, part of alarger strategic pipeline.
And, you know,
I certainly know one apprentice that's come out of the College of West Anglia that'sactually working on that pipeline.
So, you know, there are some opportunities.
(18:53):
Certainly, again, I can think of one apprentice that's come into Anglia Water.
He's now at university as well.
He's doing a degree in civil engineering.
you know, there has been some real success stories.
There hasn't been a lot of those opportunities, but we are still sponsoring those coursesat the college.
(19:14):
I think my view on apprenticeships is that they're really good for somebody that's morepractical minded, but wants to move forward with their career.
The College of West Anglia is well worth a look in terms of those opportunities.
And it's not just construction, obviously, they do a whole range of.
(19:37):
courses.
I think, you know, for a lot of students in particular, that's great.
That's something well worth a look.
The other thing I would say in terms of homeless people, the Ferry Project, absolutelydoing some amazing stuff.
think big credit to Keith and the team there in terms of the 25 year Jubilee.
(19:59):
But for a lot of people, this is about getting back on your feet, isn't it?
You've almost got to go back to that first stage.
and that's where think, know, big stuff going on, you know, some amazing stuff going on,but there is such a gap between that start point and getting back on the employment
(20:20):
ladder.
Again, some real success stories with the Ferry Project, but I think, you know, in termsof rural homelessness, that complex part of it is something you can't ignore.
But we have seen some opportunities and some real successes.
You're right, Russell.
Homelessness is a very complex issue.
(20:42):
And actually a lot of what Terry was saying just a little while ago, where you werespeaking about the problems faced by employers and employees, and you mentioned things
like digital connectivity and transport links and the bus service not being what we wouldhope it to be to get us from one place to another.
(21:03):
And a lot of homeless people find
those key issues as well.
I mean, you know, applying for universal credit and all this kind of thing you got to doonline, you got to have a phone, you have somebody to plug your phone in, you got to have
a connection, you've got to be able to pay for your SIM card top up.
you know, and a homeless person really struggles to do that.
(21:26):
And where do you plug your phone into charge if you even got a phone in the first place?
And you know, if then you have to go somewhere for a job interview or, or universal creditinterview and, but it's in March or it's in Peterborough.
And so now you've got it.
Now you've got to get from where you are to that place.
And it's very, very difficult.
So a lot of, a lot of what you're saying that affects employment also impacts peopleexperiencing homelessness as well.
(21:52):
Yep.
So Terry carrying on on the homelessness theme, in your opinion, how do the employmentprospects.
of certainly the main type of employment opportunities available in rural areas.
How do these leave people more vulnerable to homelessness?
Well, I think going back to a number of issues that we've already covered, I think all ofthose link through.
(22:17):
I made the point earlier, didn't I, some people having no guaranteed income because ofzero hours contracts or very low wages to a point where they're in work, it's not
sufficient.
I think that can lead to all sorts of issues when people are suffering, sufferingfinancial, difficult financial circumstances, know, break down in relationships, people
(22:39):
finding coping strategies, which are probably not in their best interest.
I think you understand what I'm saying.
All leading to a point where, you know, they're unable to either remain in a property forrelationship reasons, for example, or they're unable to continue to afford to live in a
property or support the running of a property.
(23:00):
Ultimately, the potential is, as I see it, to be homeless.
And one of the things in WhizBeach as well is we have a lot, I think.
I don't know the statistics or sort of to compare it with other places, but I know we havea lot of HMOs, houses of multiple occupancy, and a lot of sort of landlords, and the
(23:23):
rental market is huge.
mean, with speech as opposed to sort of people owning a house and that sort of thing.
And I know we've got a new government now and they're focusing on housing and trying toaddress some of these issues.
And one of the things that was flying around sort of pre and post elections was this wholething about no fault evictions and how they also play a part in causing homelessness.
(23:50):
So maybe we'll see some movement on that front as well.
in the future, who knows, but that's also another issue, I think, as well as not affordingrent or, you know, getting into sort of a lifestyle habit that might cause you to lose
your home.
You know, also no fault evictions and things like that as well.
(24:11):
Also playing a part there.
Do you think the availability of jobs and employment prospects have an impact on ruralhomelessness?
How do they link together?
I think as we've been saying, it is a complex one, isn't it?
There's lots of challenges in here as you've been saying, Matt.
One of the things we did working with Keith and the team at the Ferry Project, this isgoing back sort of pre -COVID, we had a little jobs club, didn't we, Terry?
(24:40):
Yeah, you did, And that was a bit of a bridge and maybe we need to go back and dosomething like that.
But you're quite right for Ferry Project amazing at
helping to get people back on the feet, so the health issues, whatever it is, identifyingsome particular training type stuff, but that whole thing about health and wellbeing, such
(25:05):
an important part of moving forward.
The little jobs club almost was a bridge then, it's for what next then, and of course itwas very informal, but as you've been saying, Matt, there wasn't...
people didn't have CVs, they didn't have access to a computer.
(25:25):
Well, as we know, virtually every job these days, you've got to apply online.
So if you haven't got access to a computer or a printer or whatever, you're going tostruggle with that.
And the jobs club was about trying to bridge that.
And all credit to, as I say, the team for trying to make that work.
(25:49):
And of course,
What you were seeing was people that perhaps have worked on the land for most of theirlives and reached a point in an age point where perhaps they just physically weren't able
to continue with that.
Well, what next then?
And it's almost, you almost need the right environment to be able to talk about that.
(26:14):
And I'm not knocking the job central employment center, but that...
sort of can be quite a formal process.
Whereas I think the idea of something more informal, where you can get people talking,sharing ideas, sharing, you know, those challenges just, just seemed to work for me.
And I'm not sure about you, Terry, but that just seemed like a bit of a bridge to helppeople.
(26:39):
I agree.
To be honest, I'd not forgotten about the job club, but hadn't really realized that itstopped because it's one of those things you almost assume.
will continue because it should continue, but I know a lot of these things are reliant onbeing funded, aren't they?
And funding is more more difficult to come across.
But I think also as well, through the job club, it probably helped people with theirwellbeing in terms of they were meeting other people they may not have met before.
(27:02):
And I think there was a, as you said, Russell, an informal atmosphere.
It's quite a social event.
So it helped people with other issues.
And I think even potentially showing people there are volunteering opportunities.
so that they can increase their skills, you like.
for example, they could, with work potentially, say for a charity, in a charity shop,people could develop cash handling skills, team working skills, all those things that are
(27:26):
all gonna be useful for a CV.
And a lot of people have actually got more skills than they realise.
They don't think of perhaps, know, a household budget is a skill.
They don't realise that driving a car is a skill.
If it's got value to somebody else potentially, then it is a skill.
So people need to be...
encouraged to really think about what they can do and whether some of those skills aretransferable from even perhaps the domestic life or a previous work environment to take it
(27:53):
forward to a new one.
But you're absolutely right in terms of, as you say, if you've had somebody who's workedon the land for 40 years and have done sort of manual type work to then be faced by it,
here's a job to apply for, here's a computer, get on with it.
And it's just not as easy as people do need support.
And it would be great, you know, to be able to keep.
(28:13):
something like the job club going.
Yeah, but I think it was a great thing.
I say, all of these things where we can get people together and support them is what weshould be doing.
And also may not be the appropriate time, but I want to concur with the comments made byRussell about the effectiveness of the Ferry Project.
(28:34):
You know, it's, in my opinion, possibly relatively easy to put a roof over someone's head,but to transform their lives.
to a point where they can be back in society and supporting themselves, which is what theFerry Project achieves, I think is great work.
And I think there's an important point here.
(28:55):
We could all be homeless, know, and that pay cheque, you know, it doesn't take long to,you know, for the majority of people, it doesn't take long to actually run out of money.
And, you know, for some of the people coming.
getting themselves into that situation.
As you say, Terry, quite often they've had quite successful careers before reaching thatpoint.
(29:18):
And whether it's a health issue or a marriage breakdown or loss of work, it doesn'tactually take much to get from quite a successful position to a position where it's all
gone wrong.
And when it's all gone wrong, it really needs a lot of support.
And as you say, it's not just
(29:38):
a roof over your head and some food, great, that's part of what you need but it's right,what next then?
So I think there's some really important stuff in here but a lot of these people as yousay, they have some really good skills and you know they can be tapped into and they just
need that opportunity to sort of move it forward again.
(30:02):
It's a complex one but I think once you start to get your head around some of that bit
and realise that some of these people, they have gone from a successful position toactually a very difficult position and yes, we could all be in that position.
(30:22):
I'd heard anecdotally some comment made somewhere, I can't recall where, a number ofpeople are two paychecks away from homelessness.
Exactly, exactly.
So yeah, complex I would say, Matt.
Yes, complex issues.
When you start thinking about it, when you start breaking the components down, you canrelate to it and understand it.
(30:46):
This has happened to people for a number of different reasons.
Of course, employment can be part of the problem, but it can also be part of the solution.
That's really good.
As we come to close this episode,
I just want to pick both of your brains and just ask, and I might be able to guess whatsome of your answers are, but I'll wait and see if I'm proved right or not.
(31:11):
What are your hopes or ideal dreams?
What would they be for the employment prospects of rural areas like Wisbech?
I think for Wisbech, know, that regeneration of the town is a really important factor.
I think, you know,
(31:31):
there has to be some funding, Terry's point, has to be some funding in here.
Maybe a change of government is something that would help that process.
But I think something, you know, there has to be some game changers, I think, with thelocal economy.
And from that, you will see, you know, health and wellbeing challenges moving forward.
(31:53):
You'll see more jobs.
You'll see, you know, what is essentially a wonderful town.
fantastic heritage, fantastic history, so unique but obviously it has been in decline itjust needs something to turn it around and move it forward and I think you know on the
back of that you will see more housing, some better housing but certainly some moreopportunities so I think there's something really important there about you know that
(32:24):
wider picture for the town and about grabbing that opportunity.
first opportunity you can do.
Thanks Russell.
Hopes and dreams Terry.
Yeah not surprisingly I agree with everything that's been said by Russell.
Yeah I think what we need, we certainly need a number of things.
(32:44):
We need more retail in town centres.
I realise that's probably pushing against the tide but we need a way of making towncentres vibrant and viable.
Nobody wants rows of empty shops but we just need to probably
reset some mindset if we can so that people aren't buying everything from Amazon.
As an example, obviously there are other suppliers via the Other online retailers.
(33:09):
There are other online retailers.
We possibly need in terms of security, more medium sized businesses, because I think Isaid before, if you get a large employer that disappears, significant impact in terms of
the population.
And obviously it's not just those people potentially losing their jobs, then they've gotless money to spend.
So they're not spending their money locally in retail, for example.
(33:31):
And also then they're pulling money out of the economy as opposed to putting money intothe economy.
So that would be useful to WISPs to get medium -sized employers.
I think we need a wider range of jobs.
I think it might be difficult, especially without rail station and other connectivityissues, to attract jobs, shall we say, in the IT or the high tech.
(33:54):
or electronic type activity as opposed to what's been traditional in this area.
Jobs that would pay more, as I said, hopefully that also then benefits people not only interms of their lifestyle, but their spend in the local economy.
Higher wages, opportunities for people to progress within work.
I think there again, people struggle in terms of career ladder.
(34:15):
They get to a certain point, it means you've actually got to move away.
That's if you've returned from university.
So I think there needs to be.
more opportunity.
If you work in a factory, there needs to be opportunity to become management, for example.
That's what I think.
More apprenticeships.
I'm a great believer in apprenticeships and obviously the work that Anglia and Water aredoing with the College of West Anglia proves the benefit of that.
(34:40):
We do need people with skills in terms of trade activities.
It's no good us having a situation in this country where everybody just sits behind acomputer all day.
We need those, we need those, you know, those, those, those trades.
And I think apprenticeships is a way of growing some of those trades.
And also, know Russell made a comment about aspirations of people in Wisbech are not low.
(35:03):
I'm not disagreeing with Russell, but there's a perception of low aspiration.
And I think a better range of jobs would raise, raise aspiration levels and people wantingto get more qualifications because they know it's worth them.
investing their time in trying to develop themselves because the opportunities are there.
Russell mentioned funding, mean there is, was released, announced by the previousgovernment, the £20 million Towns Fund, £2 million for Wisbech each year for a 10 year
(35:34):
period.
I know the Town Board has just started to meet and hopefully, potentially some of thatfunding will get to a situation where we can help.
develop the local economy, the local infrastructure, which potentially might lead to jobcreation or job security in the town.
That's wonderful.
Well, thank you, Russell.
(35:54):
And thank you, Terry.
Thank you so much for joining us on the Rural Homelessness podcast today.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you about employment in rural areas.
So thank you for joining us.
Thank you, Matt.
And thank you for listening to this episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
And don't forget, an episode comes out on the 1st and the 15th of every month.
(36:15):
So I'll be back again really soon, chatting with some more guests about issues that impactand affect rural homelessness.
And I look forward to the pleasure of your company again really soon.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to the Rural Homelessness Podcast brought to you by The FerryProject.
(36:35):
Visit our website on www .ferryproject .org .uk
This is the Rural Homelessness Podcast, where we discuss the important issues around ruralhomelessness, hear from those affected by it, and offer some solutions.
Brought to you by the award -winning homelessness charity, The Ferry Project.
Welcome to the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
(00:28):
Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
I am your host, Matt McChlery and thank you so much.
for joining me on this episode today.
Now, on this episode, we are going to be speaking about the challenges of employment inrural areas.
And I'm joined by two guests, Russell Beale, who is the engagement specialist at AnglianWater, and also Terry Jordan, who is the clerk and the responsible financial officer for
(00:57):
Wisbech Town Council.
So let's welcome our guests to the show today.
Hello, Russell.
Good morning.
And hello, Terry, welcome.
Good morning.
Thank you for joining us today on the Rural Homelessness podcast.
And we're going to be chatting about employment in rural areas.
(01:19):
And both of you experience business and employment and things like that in rural areas.
So it would be great to get your thoughts and opinions on the topic.
Let's start with you, Russell.
Please can you give us an insight into your work?
and the company you're a part of and its employment statistics and all that kind of thing.
(01:41):
Yeah, thanks Matt.
So I work for Anglia Water.
I actually work for the Anglia Water Alliance.
The Anglia Water Alliance is a sort framework partnership.
So a lot of companies as part of our supply chain.
The Anglia Water Alliance is basically
(02:03):
has basically been set up for the delivery of our capital program.
So lots of work to do there, but also, as I say, lots of opportunities really foremployment there.
In terms of me, I work on the stakeholder engagement side.
(02:24):
So I do a lot of liaison with local authorities.
and other sort planning application consultees so I do quite a bit of work around that.
I also have a role to work with Business in the Community.
Business in the Community is a membership organization, it's based in London.
Companies like Anglia Water subscribe to business in the community and it's all about youknow what can business do to support communities and obviously we've been doing a lot
(02:55):
supporting Wisbech over
think it's 12 years now Terry.
It probably is.
Quite a long time.
But as I say I get involved in that stuff.
I think you mentioned employment stats there Matt if I remember correctly.
We've got about 5 ,000 people working directly in Anglingwater but if you take all ofthose people in the supply chain you can certainly triple that sort of number.
(03:23):
So quite a big organisation.
Thanks Russell, that's really good to know.
And Terry, as someone who works in Wisbech and knows Wisbech quite well, what are some ofthe typical industries that offer employment in this rural location?
Thanks Matt, yes I think I do know Wisbech quite well.
I'm currently the clerk to the town council but I have worked in local government, juststarted my 48th year in local government and I've worked for the county council, the
(03:51):
district council and various town and parishes so all of that is involved.
supporting people in Wisbech Town Council is very keen to support people in Wisbech in anyway that it can and it works with lots of partners including Anglia Water to deliver some
of its ambitions.
Traditionally the employment in Wisbech has tended to be in agriculture or associatedbusinesses such as canning, road haulage, those types of activities.
(04:22):
However obviously as agriculture has
moved forward in terms of mechanisation, there's fewer labour opportunities than thereused to be.
There are some very large factory employers such as Nestle Purina and employers generallyin Wisbech either tend to be large or very small.
There are very few medium sized employers.
(04:43):
So for example, if a large business closed that would have a significant impact on theemployment situation in the town.
Wisbech is fairly unique in that
for example, towns like March, they've got a number of small medium sized businesses andthey've also got much more employment in terms of, shall we say administrative services
and financial services that appears to be the case in Wisbech.
(05:08):
Apart from sort of factory work, as I've mentioned, companies such as Nestle, majority ofpeople in the town then either tend to work in retail or hospitality.
However, since the sort of pandemic in the three or four years ago,
That's had a significant impact on town centres in terms of certainly retail and obviouslythere again that's had an impact on the amount of employability that there is in the town
(05:34):
centre.
I don't think Wisbech is alone in that.
I think that that sort of impact on the sort of the town centre and the whole idea ofcommunities gathering in a centre, I think that that has been dramatically impacted by
Covid and sort of what we've seen since then across the country.
What do you think?
I think you're absolutely right.
think people's sort of shopping habits have changed, the way that they work has changed.
(05:59):
Fewer people are actually coming into town to work.
So there again, that has an impact on the town centre.
And I agree, Matt, Wispage is not standalone in that situation.
I think we're reflective of the national trends and we're also finding the same impact onour traditional market that we operate in the town centre.
But we do what we can as a town council.
We run events in the town centre.
(06:19):
We do other activity to try to pull people into that space to spend their money in theshops, which obviously consequently helps to retain and generate employment opportunities.
Russell, does Anglia Water find a difference in employees from a rural background asopposed to an urban background?
(06:41):
What's your experience with that?
Interesting question.
I would say
In terms of aspiration of some of those youngsters, from what I've seen, you know, fromstudents coming out of Thomas Clarkson, for example, we've done a bit of work there.
(07:03):
don't personally think there's any difference in the aspiration.
I think the difference is probably in the opportunity.
Can I just interrupt you there, Russell, just for a bit, just to explain to our listenersthat Thomas Clarkson is a secondary school in Wisbech.
It does sound like a bloke's name.
because it is, but it is actually a school named after him.
(07:24):
just in case listeners are getting confused.
Sorry, carry on Russell, what were you saying?
So, so Thomas Clarkson Academy, we've done some work with the Academy over a period oftime.
We've looked at things like sixth form interviews.
And so having some direct experience of that, as I say, I think when you talk to thosestudents, the
(07:48):
aspiration is there but maybe the opportunity within Wisbech locally is not there so it'sthat sort of difference but I think you know I met with some of the apprentices at the
College of West Anglia a couple of weeks ago and to be honest they were amazing,absolutely amazing.
(08:08):
They were pleased to have the opportunity I think to be on a course, they were onconstruction course.
sort of utility operative type course.
These are courses sponsored by Anglia, but I think from what I was seeing in terms of theopportunity they were having, the delight in being on those courses was there for all to
(08:36):
see really.
And all credit to the College of West Anglia for helping to build the confidence for
you know, sort of driving those opportunities forward.
It was really great to see.
I must admit, for me, I've been involved in the education sector for about a decade and ahalf.
Not anymore, but I was.
(08:58):
One of the things I've noticed is that there tends to be a gap.
Kids come to school and they stay in education here.
But when it comes to higher education, when it comes to university, all of a sudden,
There's nothing really in the rural area.
So they all have to go to a big city somewhere to go to a university.
(09:23):
But then the problem, and that's okay because, you know, big cities can support that kindof infrastructure that that's needed for that type of higher education.
But it's then attracting them back again.
It's kind of you come, you go to school, you leave, and then you never come back.
(09:43):
So what can we do?
What are your thoughts of trying to attract the graduates back into a rural economy tohelp contribute to what's going on here?
Have we got any ideas there?
Partly it's about the reality of the rural situation compared to a city situation.
(10:04):
I think one of the problems that Wisbech has is the public transport connectivity.
We've been talking quite a bit, Terry, haven't we, about the reopening of the railway lineand just improving that connectivity.
I think one of the ways forward maybe to see, if you could get on the train in WisbechBeach and be in the middle of Cambridge in sort of 50 minutes time, you would see a lot
(10:30):
more people living in the town.
Okay, they're not necessarily working within the town, but...
If they're commuting back to Wisbech that would help that local economy.
It would be a bit of a game changer, I think, in terms of more opportunities in the town.
But it also help to take the town forward from a regeneration point of view.
(10:54):
So I think this is partly about connectivity.
But it needs something like that to see some transformation, I think, in terms of moreskilled opportunities.
within the town.
you know, don't know if you agree with that Terry, but you know, that's, those are some ofthe thoughts I have.
(11:15):
Yeah, I agree with you.
I agree with you completely.
And I think all those people, even if they are going, you know, from Wisbech to Cambridgeto work, they're still living locally.
they, at the weekends, for example, they can be putting money back into the local economy,which there again helps to, as I say, maintain and generate employment in the town.
That's interesting.
You mentioned the Wisbech railway line.
(11:36):
Wisbech is a fairly large town to not have a railway station.
There are much smaller towns around us that do have railway stations, so it is a bit of amystery.
But we've heard about this over the years.
Do any of you know where we're up to with that?
Because you kind of hear something and then you don't.
Do we know where we're at at the moment with the Wisbech Rail and possibly maybe gettingsomething to help improve that kind of connectivity?
(12:04):
Terry may be a better place than me to answer that question, but I know there's appraisalsgoing on, Terry, in the background.
know the Cambridge and Peterborough combined authority have been working with Network Railaround that process.
What we do know, Terry, is that it's a very long -winded process.
think it's a very long -winded process and a very expensive process.
(12:28):
I think we're talking potentially, as I've heard in the past, hundreds of millions ofpounds to get.
rail back into Wisbech.
my understanding is it's still on the agenda as an issue, as Russell said, how quickly itcan be achieved.
Who knows?
But the Wisbees 2020 Vision Partnership, it was high on its agenda and it was reallypushing for it.
(12:52):
And as I understood it, we had the support of the local MP.
But it's like a lot of things, these things take a lot of pushing through.
And I think, as you said, Matt,
I think Wisbech is one of the largest towns in the UK without a railway station andideally it's something we'd all like to see addressed.
You make a good point there Terry, know this if you had this opportunity with the rail Ithink you would see a change in Wisbech.
(13:17):
know there's like the town centre it's been struggling like a lot of town centres but whatwe're seeing in Wisbech of course is buildings almost physically collapsing.
Not just border boarded up but
I've been seeing some real dilapidation in terms of those buildings and I think it needssomething of a big change, something like the railway to start to see that turnaround.
(13:45):
not saying that's everything that needs to happen, but I think it needs something of thatorder to start to see some real change.
As Terry's point there, if you can start to see that, it certainly then starts to generatenew opportunities for people within the town.
I think also, if I may, picking up Matt's point about lack of opportunity for graduates inthe town.
(14:12):
think there again, if graduates are looking for somewhere to settle irrespective of theemployment, they're looking for other activity and what else is going on.
And for a lot of people, if they feel that Whispidge is really isolated because it's
has poor transport connectivity, and particularly in a rail station, that's probablyanother reason why they would look to other places, shall we say, such as Peterborough,
Cambridge, et cetera, that have those facilities.
(14:33):
Coming back to employment more specifically, we've already mentioned one of the barriersto employment in a rural area such as Beach is this transport connectivity.
Terry, what are some of the other challenges that are faced by employers as well asemployees in rural areas like Wisbech?
I think as I understand is that some employers do find it difficult to attract employeeswith the right skills locally.
(15:02):
And in fact, I was at a meeting yesterday hosted by the National Trust at Peckover andthey were saying that whenever they have a vacancy linked to some of their property or
assets in Wisbech, especially management positions, they don't get applications from localpeople, which is something they'd like to try to address.
So, you know, that
probably goes back to the point about people wanting or not wanting to work in Wisbech ifthey are graduates.
(15:26):
I think some of the employers, mean, also I'd like to commend Anglin Water for the workthat they're doing in terms of growing people through the College of West Anglia, through
their apprenticeships into roles locally.
And they've had some real successes in that.
I think also employers not only suffer, we're saying employees might suffer from lack ofconnectivity and transport.
(15:48):
I think the same is affected by employers.
They also struggle with no railway station.
The fact that not much of the A47 is dueled.
And I think Whispage is perceived as being in the middle of nowhere, whether that's anaccurate assessment or not.
I think there are also sometimes poor connectivity, digitally, not just in terms ofphysical infrastructure.
(16:11):
And people can feel cut off and some businesses really struggle if they need to do a lotof their, I was going say, need to a lot of their business online.
every business will need to be connected in some way, even if they don't transact theirbusiness that way in terms of information that they need to achieve or, also financial
returns and things that counts and things that they need to submit.
(16:33):
But I think transport is a big issue, certainly for employees.
For example, if somebody lives in March but works in Wisbech and need to rely on the bus,there's now no bus service on a Sunday between those two largest towns.
So people then physically can't get...
get to work on that one day of the week.
So I think that is an issue, but it's something that people are trying to address.
(16:55):
And I think the combined authority of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, I think the busservice review is being carried out.
And there's also a feminine and transport and access group of which I'm a member.
And there again, it looks to improve or address issues in terms of rural transport, but itis difficult because a lot of it comes down to funding and no longer is the case that
(17:16):
that local authorities can put significant subsidies into bus services.
I think another issue for employees, I as I understand it, unemployment is low andpossibly certainly no more than the national average, but a lot of the work is either part
-time, low wage, zero hours contract, or a combination of all of those things, which Idon't think helps.
(17:46):
obviously employees in terms of security and stability and the ability, for example, ifyou've got a zero hours contract, it's going to be very difficult to get a mortgage
because some weeks you could be earning no money.
So it's those sort of implications and situations for employees.
don't know whether obviously Russell's got anything to add because obviously Anglia Wateris a large employer and it operates in the town.
(18:11):
Well,
You know, it's quite a complex picture, I think, in terms of employment opportunities inthe town.
I briefly mentioned the apprentices that are coming out of the college.
We've had some wonderful people join that Anglin Water Alliance.
You know, there's been some real success stories there.
(18:32):
You've probably seen we're building a pipeline through Fenland at the moment, part of alarger strategic pipeline.
And, you know,
I certainly know one apprentice that's come out of the College of West Anglia that'sactually working on that pipeline.
So, you know, there are some opportunities.
(18:53):
Certainly, again, I can think of one apprentice that's come into Anglia Water.
He's now at university as well.
He's doing a degree in civil engineering.
you know, there has been some real success stories.
There hasn't been a lot of those opportunities, but we are still sponsoring those coursesat the college.
(19:14):
I think my view on apprenticeships is that they're really good for somebody that's morepractical minded, but wants to move forward with their career.
The College of West Anglia is well worth a look in terms of those opportunities.
And it's not just construction, obviously, they do a whole range of.
(19:37):
courses.
I think, you know, for a lot of students in particular, that's great.
That's something well worth a look.
The other thing I would say in terms of homeless people, the Ferry Project, absolutelydoing some amazing stuff.
think big credit to Keith and the team there in terms of the 25 year Jubilee.
(19:59):
But for a lot of people, this is about getting back on your feet, isn't it?
You've almost got to go back to that first stage.
and that's where think, know, big stuff going on, you know, some amazing stuff going on,but there is such a gap between that start point and getting back on the employment
(20:20):
ladder.
Again, some real success stories with the Ferry Project, but I think, you know, in termsof rural homelessness, that complex part of it is something you can't ignore.
But we have seen some opportunities and some real successes.
You're right, Russell.
Homelessness is a very complex issue.
(20:42):
And actually a lot of what Terry was saying just a little while ago, where you werespeaking about the problems faced by employers and employees, and you mentioned things
like digital connectivity and transport links and the bus service not being what we wouldhope it to be to get us from one place to another.
(21:03):
And a lot of homeless people find
those key issues as well.
I mean, you know, applying for universal credit and all this kind of thing you got to doonline, you got to have a phone, you have somebody to plug your phone in, you got to have
a connection, you've got to be able to pay for your SIM card top up.
you know, and a homeless person really struggles to do that.
(21:26):
And where do you plug your phone into charge if you even got a phone in the first place?
And you know, if then you have to go somewhere for a job interview or, or universal creditinterview and, but it's in March or it's in Peterborough.
And so now you've got it.
Now you've got to get from where you are to that place.
And it's very, very difficult.
So a lot of, a lot of what you're saying that affects employment also impacts peopleexperiencing homelessness as well.
(21:52):
Yep.
So Terry carrying on on the homelessness theme, in your opinion, how do the employmentprospects.
of certainly the main type of employment opportunities available in rural areas.
How do these leave people more vulnerable to homelessness?
Well, I think going back to a number of issues that we've already covered, I think all ofthose link through.
(22:17):
I made the point earlier, didn't I, some people having no guaranteed income because ofzero hours contracts or very low wages to a point where they're in work, it's not
sufficient.
I think that can lead to all sorts of issues when people are suffering, sufferingfinancial, difficult financial circumstances, know, break down in relationships, people
(22:39):
finding coping strategies, which are probably not in their best interest.
I think you understand what I'm saying.
All leading to a point where, you know, they're unable to either remain in a property forrelationship reasons, for example, or they're unable to continue to afford to live in a
property or support the running of a property.
(23:00):
Ultimately, the potential is, as I see it, to be homeless.
And one of the things in WhizBeach as well is we have a lot, I think.
I don't know the statistics or sort of to compare it with other places, but I know we havea lot of HMOs, houses of multiple occupancy, and a lot of sort of landlords, and the
(23:23):
rental market is huge.
mean, with speech as opposed to sort of people owning a house and that sort of thing.
And I know we've got a new government now and they're focusing on housing and trying toaddress some of these issues.
And one of the things that was flying around sort of pre and post elections was this wholething about no fault evictions and how they also play a part in causing homelessness.
(23:50):
So maybe we'll see some movement on that front as well.
in the future, who knows, but that's also another issue, I think, as well as not affordingrent or, you know, getting into sort of a lifestyle habit that might cause you to lose
your home.
You know, also no fault evictions and things like that as well.
(24:11):
Also playing a part there.
Do you think the availability of jobs and employment prospects have an impact on ruralhomelessness?
How do they link together?
I think as we've been saying, it is a complex one, isn't it?
There's lots of challenges in here as you've been saying, Matt.
One of the things we did working with Keith and the team at the Ferry Project, this isgoing back sort of pre -COVID, we had a little jobs club, didn't we, Terry?
(24:40):
Yeah, you did, And that was a bit of a bridge and maybe we need to go back and dosomething like that.
But you're quite right for Ferry Project amazing at
helping to get people back on the feet, so the health issues, whatever it is, identifyingsome particular training type stuff, but that whole thing about health and wellbeing, such
(25:05):
an important part of moving forward.
The little jobs club almost was a bridge then, it's for what next then, and of course itwas very informal, but as you've been saying, Matt, there wasn't...
people didn't have CVs, they didn't have access to a computer.
(25:25):
Well, as we know, virtually every job these days, you've got to apply online.
So if you haven't got access to a computer or a printer or whatever, you're going tostruggle with that.
And the jobs club was about trying to bridge that.
And all credit to, as I say, the team for trying to make that work.
(25:49):
And of course,
What you were seeing was people that perhaps have worked on the land for most of theirlives and reached a point in an age point where perhaps they just physically weren't able
to continue with that.
Well, what next then?
And it's almost, you almost need the right environment to be able to talk about that.
(26:14):
And I'm not knocking the job central employment center, but that...
sort of can be quite a formal process.
Whereas I think the idea of something more informal, where you can get people talking,sharing ideas, sharing, you know, those challenges just, just seemed to work for me.
And I'm not sure about you, Terry, but that just seemed like a bit of a bridge to helppeople.
(26:39):
I agree.
To be honest, I'd not forgotten about the job club, but hadn't really realized that itstopped because it's one of those things you almost assume.
will continue because it should continue, but I know a lot of these things are reliant onbeing funded, aren't they?
And funding is more more difficult to come across.
But I think also as well, through the job club, it probably helped people with theirwellbeing in terms of they were meeting other people they may not have met before.
(27:02):
And I think there was a, as you said, Russell, an informal atmosphere.
It's quite a social event.
So it helped people with other issues.
And I think even potentially showing people there are volunteering opportunities.
so that they can increase their skills, you like.
for example, they could, with work potentially, say for a charity, in a charity shop,people could develop cash handling skills, team working skills, all those things that are
(27:26):
all gonna be useful for a CV.
And a lot of people have actually got more skills than they realise.
They don't think of perhaps, know, a household budget is a skill.
They don't realise that driving a car is a skill.
If it's got value to somebody else potentially, then it is a skill.
So people need to be...
encouraged to really think about what they can do and whether some of those skills aretransferable from even perhaps the domestic life or a previous work environment to take it
(27:53):
forward to a new one.
But you're absolutely right in terms of, as you say, if you've had somebody who's workedon the land for 40 years and have done sort of manual type work to then be faced by it,
here's a job to apply for, here's a computer, get on with it.
And it's just not as easy as people do need support.
And it would be great, you know, to be able to keep.
(28:13):
something like the job club going.
Yeah, but I think it was a great thing.
I say, all of these things where we can get people together and support them is what weshould be doing.
And also may not be the appropriate time, but I want to concur with the comments made byRussell about the effectiveness of the Ferry Project.
(28:34):
You know, it's, in my opinion, possibly relatively easy to put a roof over someone's head,but to transform their lives.
to a point where they can be back in society and supporting themselves, which is what theFerry Project achieves, I think is great work.
And I think there's an important point here.
(28:55):
We could all be homeless, know, and that pay cheque, you know, it doesn't take long to,you know, for the majority of people, it doesn't take long to actually run out of money.
And, you know, for some of the people coming.
getting themselves into that situation.
As you say, Terry, quite often they've had quite successful careers before reaching thatpoint.
(29:18):
And whether it's a health issue or a marriage breakdown or loss of work, it doesn'tactually take much to get from quite a successful position to a position where it's all
gone wrong.
And when it's all gone wrong, it really needs a lot of support.
And as you say, it's not just
(29:38):
a roof over your head and some food, great, that's part of what you need but it's right,what next then?
So I think there's some really important stuff in here but a lot of these people as yousay, they have some really good skills and you know they can be tapped into and they just
need that opportunity to sort of move it forward again.
(30:02):
It's a complex one but I think once you start to get your head around some of that bit
and realise that some of these people, they have gone from a successful position toactually a very difficult position and yes, we could all be in that position.
(30:22):
I'd heard anecdotally some comment made somewhere, I can't recall where, a number ofpeople are two paychecks away from homelessness.
Exactly, exactly.
So yeah, complex I would say, Matt.
Yes, complex issues.
When you start thinking about it, when you start breaking the components down, you canrelate to it and understand it.
(30:46):
This has happened to people for a number of different reasons.
Of course, employment can be part of the problem, but it can also be part of the solution.
That's really good.
As we come to close this episode,
I just want to pick both of your brains and just ask, and I might be able to guess whatsome of your answers are, but I'll wait and see if I'm proved right or not.
(31:11):
What are your hopes or ideal dreams?
What would they be for the employment prospects of rural areas like Wisbech?
I think for Wisbech, know, that regeneration of the town is a really important factor.
I think, you know,
(31:31):
there has to be some funding, Terry's point, has to be some funding in here.
Maybe a change of government is something that would help that process.
But I think something, you know, there has to be some game changers, I think, with thelocal economy.
And from that, you will see, you know, health and wellbeing challenges moving forward.
(31:53):
You'll see more jobs.
You'll see, you know, what is essentially a wonderful town.
fantastic heritage, fantastic history, so unique but obviously it has been in decline itjust needs something to turn it around and move it forward and I think you know on the
back of that you will see more housing, some better housing but certainly some moreopportunities so I think there's something really important there about you know that
(32:24):
wider picture for the town and about grabbing that opportunity.
first opportunity you can do.
Thanks Russell.
Hopes and dreams Terry.
Yeah not surprisingly I agree with everything that's been said by Russell.
Yeah I think what we need, we certainly need a number of things.
(32:44):
We need more retail in town centres.
I realise that's probably pushing against the tide but we need a way of making towncentres vibrant and viable.
Nobody wants rows of empty shops but we just need to probably
reset some mindset if we can so that people aren't buying everything from Amazon.
As an example, obviously there are other suppliers via the Other online retailers.
(33:09):
There are other online retailers.
We possibly need in terms of security, more medium sized businesses, because I think Isaid before, if you get a large employer that disappears, significant impact in terms of
the population.
And obviously it's not just those people potentially losing their jobs, then they've gotless money to spend.
So they're not spending their money locally in retail, for example.
(33:31):
And also then they're pulling money out of the economy as opposed to putting money intothe economy.
So that would be useful to WISPs to get medium -sized employers.
I think we need a wider range of jobs.
I think it might be difficult, especially without rail station and other connectivityissues, to attract jobs, shall we say, in the IT or the high tech.
(33:54):
or electronic type activity as opposed to what's been traditional in this area.
Jobs that would pay more, as I said, hopefully that also then benefits people not only interms of their lifestyle, but their spend in the local economy.
Higher wages, opportunities for people to progress within work.
I think there again, people struggle in terms of career ladder.
(34:15):
They get to a certain point, it means you've actually got to move away.
That's if you've returned from university.
So I think there needs to be.
more opportunity.
If you work in a factory, there needs to be opportunity to become management, for example.
That's what I think.
More apprenticeships.
I'm a great believer in apprenticeships and obviously the work that Anglia and Water aredoing with the College of West Anglia proves the benefit of that.
(34:40):
We do need people with skills in terms of trade activities.
It's no good us having a situation in this country where everybody just sits behind acomputer all day.
We need those, we need those, you know, those, those, those trades.
And I think apprenticeships is a way of growing some of those trades.
And also, know Russell made a comment about aspirations of people in Wisbech are not low.
(35:03):
I'm not disagreeing with Russell, but there's a perception of low aspiration.
And I think a better range of jobs would raise, raise aspiration levels and people wantingto get more qualifications because they know it's worth them.
investing their time in trying to develop themselves because the opportunities are there.
Russell mentioned funding, mean there is, was released, announced by the previousgovernment, the £20 million Towns Fund, £2 million for Wisbech each year for a 10 year
(35:34):
period.
I know the Town Board has just started to meet and hopefully, potentially some of thatfunding will get to a situation where we can help.
develop the local economy, the local infrastructure, which potentially might lead to jobcreation or job security in the town.
That's wonderful.
Well, thank you, Russell.
(35:54):
And thank you, Terry.
Thank you so much for joining us on the Rural Homelessness podcast today.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you about employment in rural areas.
So thank you for joining us.
Thank you, Matt.
And thank you for listening to this episode of the Rural Homelessness Podcast.
And don't forget, an episode comes out on the 1st and the 15th of every month.
(36:15):
So I'll be back again really soon, chatting with some more guests about issues that impactand affect rural homelessness.
And I look forward to the pleasure of your company again really soon.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to the Rural Homelessness Podcast brought to you by The FerryProject.
(36:35):
Visit our website on www .ferryproject .org .uk
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