EP 4 | 2 Orthodox Priests on Gender Identity, Abortion, IVF & George Janko - The Salt Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Salt podcast. If you're just joining us, we're
on episode 4. I'm George Skander, my Co host
Simon Thomas Gilto. We're very blessed today to have
two special guests. We have Father Elijah Skander,
no relation, but I do consider him like family to me.
And we have Father Anthony Shirkewi, who I've actually
known for a long time before he was a priest.
We actually used to study together a lot during our uni

(00:21):
days. So welcome.
It's great to have you guys. Thank you.
Thank. You for having.
Us to be here. So a little bit of background,
both young priests who are ordained at A at a very young
age. I think Father Elijah, you were
about 20-9 years old and Father Anthony, you were about 33.
So both young fresh priests who got called to be priests at A at

(00:46):
a very young age. And prior to priesthood, Father
Elijah was a doctor and you werea podiatrist, so both in the
medical profession. Yep, that's correct.
Yeah. We shared a wall at work.
Wow. On either side of the wall that
works. So it was a blessing being with
the Father Elijah over there. They were never separated.
Yeah, now there's no walls between us.

(01:09):
That's beautiful. That's beautiful.
So what I'd like to ask you guysto start off is in in the
Orthodox, Egyptian Orthodox Church, opposed to other
churches, sometimes you can choose to become a priest in our
church, actually don't. You don't choose, you get
chosen. So can you guys give us a little
bit of background on that process on how how someone

(01:29):
becomes a priest in the OrthodoxChurch?
So I think in terms of practicalsteps, usually your confession,
Father will raise that topic with you and say, look, you
know, we think that you might have some suitable qualities.

(01:50):
And then you, you've but to prayer, discuss with your
family, need the, the permission, the blessing of the
Bishop as well as well as the church that you're going to
serve in. So that's just a, a very big
crash course. Very important to say that one
of the, the qualities of a priest is not necessarily the
most spiritual, the most holy. There are many in the

(02:12):
congregation that are much holier than we will ever, ever,
ever be. So it's not because we're
superior in terms of holiness, but there's just, you know,
other like personal characteristics which are
God-given that might make somebody, you know, suitable for
priesthood. The other very important thing
is that priesthood refines. So, you know, I like the saying

(02:35):
that God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the
called. So even if we we have our
shortcomings, priesthood is a marvellous school to help you
grow, you know, in spirituality,in virtue and just in life in
general. You learn from people all the
time. You said you were your
confession. Father brings it up to you.

(02:55):
So at what? How old were you when your
confession? Father kind of tapped you and
said, you know, I'm thinking of you as a priest.
Like when? When did you get that?
I was probably in my mid 20s when you first had that
conversation with me, and then it happened a few years after
that. OK, how about you, Ibona?
I just remember there was a priest that was ordained on the

(03:16):
same day as Father Elijah. His name is Father David.
And if I recall correctly, he said Father Elijah was a priest
from his mother's womb. So I think God, God had a
beautiful calling actually for Father Elijah.
For me, I think it was just hereand there, but until it was like

(03:42):
serious, serious. Then that was much later for me.
So I was 30s in my early 30s or late 20s.
Yeah, do. You have the option to, I don't
want to say say no to the confession father, but decline
or. Of course, like it's because
it's scary. And so if you have to, you know,

(04:06):
pray and just see if it's reallyGod calling and then also really
needs the consent of your familyas well because it has an impact
on them. So yeah, they can decline on our
behalf. So if your wife were to say no,
but you would say yes, that's just it's over.
You're clearly not married, son.Not yet.

(04:27):
That one was targeted. I think it's a it's, it's it's a
very heavy responsibility to thepoint where our confession.
Father, Father Jacob, he was actually recalling a time where
he was reading a book by Saint John Chrysostom on the
priesthood on the plane. And while he was reading it, he

(04:48):
said he felt like jumping out ofthe plane because I think he was
on his way to to ordination. Oh, wow.
So it was to that extent, but the.
Responsibility is heavy, the. Responsibility is heavy.
God gives grace. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Great. So on that point, I guess I want
to ask you when what was your initial feelings?

(05:08):
When you got that calling? What was your initial feelings?
Did you back out or did you everfeel like it's not the path for
you or did you accept it straight away or did you have to
pray about it? What was your?
Look, for me it was exciting. I loved to be at church and then
now I had an excuse to be there more often.
So it was good. Of course there is some

(05:29):
apprehension about what does life look like, What does family
life look like? What are the, you know,
implications on, like, daily life?
My wife was extremely supportiveand extremely faithful.
And so that gave me a lot of, yeah, a lot of of peace.
And yeah, it all kind of happenspretty quickly.
I don't have time to think too much.

(05:50):
How? About you, Father.
For me, I would like to think, you know, the calling came while
I was praying and my hands were lit off and there was incense in
the room. But I actually remember I got
the phone call when I was on thecouch playing FIFA.
Very memorable. And then I remember the phone

(06:11):
call and I told my wife about itand yeah, we both cried.
Did. You turn off the game.
Oh, I didn't play again. I didn't think after that.
Not on that night, anyway. So does that relate back to like
you guys were saying, our Father, you were saying you were
involved in the church already. I'm assuming you were too.

(06:32):
Was that also related back to your early childhood?
Like were you guys, were you guys always just growing up in
the church? You didn't ever sort of stray
away or anything like that. I definitely had like my, my
phases when I was at university,I went through the phase of
like, oh, I'm too smart for this.
And you know, this is and there was a period of just not going

(06:55):
or just going to tick a box justto keep my parents happy.
So definitely went went through different phases, but yeah,
thank God. Like it's the the the church is
a is a really patient and wonderful and accepting and kind
mother. Absolutely, you know, and puts
up with the tantrums of its children and always welcomes us
home. What made you come back?

(07:17):
Because yeah, a lot of young people, including myself, like
you said, we sort of want to just tick a box.
We want to just go to church to the sake of saying I went to
church on a Sunday or whatever the case may be.
What made you sure to say, OK, I'm going to be there, but I'm
going to take it more serious. I'm going to be more diligent
with it to. Be honest, I don't remember.
There was no like a pivotal moment, you know, like I think

(07:43):
doesn't have to be dramatic. You know, sometimes just as we
can drift very, very slowly awayfrom God and from the church,
that can happen in reverse as well.
And so sometimes we over complicate things in terms of if
you haven't been to church for along time, you know, just just
go, just go once, just go to a meeting that you find is

(08:05):
interesting. Just go and help out with
something, you know that resonates with you.
Just don't over complicate it. And just as we drift away, we
can drift back in. Absolutely.
How about you, Father? Yeah, we grew up in the church
in in Adelaide, South Australia and it was a very close knit
community, a beautiful priest, his name was Father Philip,

(08:26):
Father Philippus. And we're always physically in
the church. But that's, that's not the whole
story. You know, of course of
Christianity you can be somewhere physically and your
heart and your mind can be somewhere else.
So there comes a time in life where you have to choose for
yourself and by the grace of God, you know that time came and

(08:49):
you have to choose whether you want to stay in the church and
in the life of the church. And that's a decision everyone
has to make. Obviously our prayer, our hope
is that everybody does make thatdecision because that is where
peace is. Peace is in the in the body of
Christ, in Noah's Ark, as we call it, where there is safety.

(09:14):
And Noah's Ark is likened to thechurch.
So we hope everybody is on board, you know.
And we never know when our finaldays so.
Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned making that
decision. So I just wanted to allude to a
situation in your life where youmade that decision and we're
just talking about it. Prior, you had a bit of a
illustrious career as a soccer player and you were kind of at a

(09:38):
crossroad. That's very generous too.
And. Last year.
Was a stretch. It's not a stretch he was
playing at the highest level that is available.
Because 100. Percent.
When I think of Illustrious, I think of you know what?
We'll we'll. Say illustrious.
All right, I I'm thinking of Australian football can be
that's. The highest level of Australian
football. That's it, Let's let's go.
We'll stop there. So you're at the highest level
of Australian football and you were to make it dramatic.

(10:02):
You're you're faced with a decision number one, do I follow
my dreams, aspirations, become asoccer player, see where that
takes me. Maybe you could be the next most
solo potentially could be most solo before most solo what or or
potentially stick to church because what I from my
understanding, the match matcheswere on Sundays.

(10:22):
So talk to us about that certainposition that you're in and how
you made that decision. Yeah.
So when you're growing up in thejunior, in the junior teams, at
least in Adelaide, the games were on Sunday.
So the higher level was being played on Sundays.
And then I remember actually there was a beautiful man at

(10:43):
church, his name's Uncle Fathe, and he actually spoke to me
about, you know, how my games are on Sundays.
And I think he just told me likeyou can't.
So I was like, OK. What commitments?
What commitments did you have onSundays other than the Mass?
Would were you like a SO? Just just just the yeah, just

(11:05):
the Mass, just the holy. Liturgy.
So you didn't want to say maybe I'll go to another Mass during
the week. Sunday Mass.
Was that important to you? You wanted to sacrifice your
illustrious career. I love Sunday Mass personally.
I think, look, if you know an opportunity, you know, presented
itself like European club and everything like this, you know,

(11:28):
that's, that's a big decision tomake as well.
But I think one thing is clear and always should be clear, is
that the Lord has to be #1 like in everything that we do.
And I think it's that simple. Do you have any stories about
Father Anthony since you've known him?

(11:49):
Both. Yeah, he can.
Skip over there now. One story that I always remember
and actually brings me a lot of it teaches me a lesson.
Actually, one time we were praying the Holy Somebody on a
Saturday night and it was one ofthose long ones that went from
like 8:00 to past midnight. After all the long tunes and
everything, we were both so thirsty I found myself guzzling
water. Since not surprised.

(12:11):
As soon as we finished and then I looked over at you and you you
were also thirsty, took a sip ofwater.
And then while your mouth was full of water, you looked at me
and said, George, what's the time?
What's the time? I'm like, so I had 1203 and then
I see you run out of the church and spit in the garden like
what's going, what's wrong? What happened?
He goes, oh, we can't, we can't have water now because it's
midnight and we're not supposed to drink before the Mass.

(12:32):
I was just like what a what a lesson like the the ability to
be so faithful and something so little while I was guzzling down
the water so that I always. Enjoyed.
I was very literal. I'm a bit of a Pharisee.
Forgive me, man. Drink your water, man, Drink.
No, but. He drank it, he drank it.
Don't stress. But what I like is you're
faithful in the little things. So can you tell us a little bit

(12:53):
about why it's important to be faithful in those little things?
Yeah, actually, I, I actually remember Mother Teresa saying
like that's it's in the little things that your strength lies.
So if someone's in faithful in little, they're also faithful in
much just like the Lord Jesus said.
So I can't add any more words tothe words of the Lord.
Yeah. Be faithful in little things so

(13:14):
that when big things come, you'll be ready by the grace of
God. So on the topic of big things
and things that we've had to go through, if I could ask you guys
a question, as a priest, what's 1 of the hardest things you guys
have had to go through so far inyour, in your era of priesthood?
And something that you felt likeyou couldn't obviously overcome
on your own, but you needed obviously the strength of God

(13:37):
with you. But something where you, you
still remember it to this day where it was very hard.
It could either be with you or about someone else, but
something that you needed you needed to push through.
So are you referring to like a personal challenge or a
challenge like, you know, with somebody?
Either either it could be in your early years of priesthood
lately. Look, I think Saint Paul when he

(13:59):
says that, you know, when he's shorter and full, he burns with
indignation. For me, that's always one of the
the big struggles when just seeing people who you really and
genuinely love by the grace of God, suffering, whether that's
suffering, you know, because of as a consequence of their

(14:19):
decisions or just suffering, youknow, because of an act of God,
so to speak. Like it's that's always
difficult when people suffer because you love them.
Absolutely, Father Anthony. Yeah, I think you never, you
never want to see people leave home, you know.

(14:39):
So again, like Father Elijah wassaying, like if someone is
distant from the church, if someone loses hope, these are
the sorts of things that can be very, very difficult.
So I hope everybody knows there's always hope.

(15:00):
I love the prayer that we have in church where we say that the
Lord Jesus Christ, he is the hope of the hopeless.
And so if anyone ever says I'm hopeless, they are the ones who
actually have hope because Jesusis the hope of the hopeless.
And if someone says I'm helpless, the prayer in church

(15:22):
is that you, Lord Jesus, you're the help of the helpless.
So if someone says I can't help myself, the Lord is their help.
So this is the the sad thing, but at the same time the very
joyful thing to always know there is no such thing as

(15:42):
despair if we fix our eyes on Christ.
That's something where you guys are very, very, very lucky in
this world to be so focused withGod all the time and to be
priests, to deal with your congregation, to always be in
constant prayer with God. But what about the people who
truly feel despair because they have that they have that absence

(16:05):
of God, but they don't know the steps, the steps in order to go
closer to God. How, how can they, how can they
sort of fix their situation? Because I'm sure every single
person in this room or watching has gone through that way.
Yes, they may be, yes, they may be Christian, Yes, they may have
faith in God, but they feel truedespair.
So how can we sort of go past that situation and find that joy

(16:27):
with God again? OK.
The words of the Bible give us aroad map for navigating these
things. In the book of James, we read a
very simple promise. Draw near to God and he will
draw near to you. So if you feel like you're in
despair and you can't pray and you can't go to church and you
can't, you know, forgive somebody that's hurt you and you

(16:47):
just don't have the energy to do, it's just all too much.
Then the Lord has promised you if you try to draw near to Him,
take a step towards him. Just lift up your heart for a
moment in prayer. Pause the video, stop listening
to me and talk to Him just for aminute, OK.

(17:08):
And then you don't know what will happen after that.
Draw knee to God and He will draw knee to you.
The Bible is full of these smallverses that you can live by.
Some people live by. Judge not and you'll not be
judged. That's the mother of their life.
You know, companies now have vision, mission.

(17:29):
You know, mission statement. All this sort of thing, you
know, That's what we do. That's what we live, that's
what. We stand.
For OK, so the Bible you're a mission statement for your life
could be one phrase from the Bible.
That's that you live by and you'll be in peace.
You'll be happy. So draw need to God and he will
draw need to you. Is there a verse you leave by?

(17:51):
Different things in different parts of my life.
I really love the promise in thePsalms which says the Lord will
perfect that which concerns me, you know, and, and of course,
Romans 828, like all things worktogether for good to those who
love God and you know, he's a very, very powerful promise.
Not necessarily all things are good, but all things work

(18:14):
together for good. And so like, again, This is why
reading the Bible is so important because you know, it's
the words are alive and you justdon't know when something that
you've read something and it's not just an intellectual
knowledge or you know, a vague familiarity, but it it

(18:37):
transforms us, like it empowers us.
You never know when that you know will come back out.
Absolutely. How about you, Father Anthony?
I know you. You definitely have verses that
you live by. I know you have them on your
notes and you read them. So what?
Which ones are sticking out to you lately?
I love John chapter 8 verse 12. Jesus said I am the light of the

(19:00):
world. He who follows me shall not walk
in darkness, but have the light of life.
And it just means that, you know, life is very simple
because your one job is to follow Jesus.
And if you do that, the promise is is that you are walking in

(19:21):
the light. And so if anyone is in darkness,
this is the way to begin to walkin.
Light is you simply you follow Christ, Life will change
completely. You can make it sound very
simple, and I think sometimes that's the thing about
Christianity, that it is actually very simple.
It's hard, it's not easy to do, but it's not complex.

(19:43):
It's very simple. Yeah, yeah, especially because
we are instructed by the Lord tobe children like the the prayer
he gave us was our Father who art in heaven.
So what does that mean except that the Lord is saying remember
you're a kid and life is simple as a kid.

(20:05):
Actually, like a lot of the timeyou know you're provided for.
You have someone to look up to, to care for you.
In the ideal situation that is, but the Lord is definitely that,
that one who we can always depend on, regardless if that's
been the reality in our own lifewith our own parents, but with

(20:26):
the Lord, that's the reality is that we can be children.
We can simply ask from him and be helped.
Actually, in our last episode with Bishop Mara Mara Emanuel,
he mentioned that point about the prayer of our Father.
And he said that when you read the the gospel, that part, he
actually said it purposely in Aramaic and he said that's the
slang language. And he said if you translate it,

(20:49):
I think the word was abun. He said that literally
translates more to daddy, not father.
So he actually added this layer that I didn't even realize and
which would have been shocking in the context of the Jews and
how they look at God as something so unattainable and
untouchable. But the way he mentioned it,
it's he actually made it very personal.
He said it's like your, he's your daddy, like you know.

(21:13):
Yeah, yeah. It's not a theory.
This is, this is real, this is life.
You know, This is why the joy isChrist is risen.
What does that mean? Other than that he is alive?
So it's a reality. So what?
What an access that we have to the Lord as children.
Definitely. So with you guys growing up, may

(21:36):
I ask you both separately, did you ever have any spiritual
struggle and how did you overcome it?
Because I think, and we touched on this before off camera was a
lot of times people see priests as kind of untouchable or as
these people that just have a, you know, their life put
together, no problems, everything's perfect.
So it's it's great to humanize you, you know, the priests a

(21:59):
little bit and realize that you guys have your own struggles as
well. So is there anything that you
can share that you personally had a spiritual struggle and you
had to overcome? Look, I think it's of course,
priests are human beings with their weaknesses, with their
good and bad days, with their, you know, sins and their

(22:20):
confession. Father, you know, a good
definition of a priest is a it'sa repentant person inspiring and
encouraging others to repent. I'm not better than anybody, you
know, And, and actually sometimes taking people's
confessions is a powerful reminder of that, of, you know,
how much more, wholly more diligent, more inspiring that

(22:41):
person is. So, yeah, actually don't think
that, you know, priests have no problems.
I think priests actually are more aware of their problems
perhaps than anybody else because, you know, yes, you see
the challenges of people, but you also see the incredible,
incredible diligence, holiness, virtue, generosity.
Incredible and, and humbling andsometimes depressing.

(23:02):
Yeah, I'll. Never be that you know so.
Yeah, it's just just some thoughts about that.
Yeah, that's a beautiful way to put it.
Yeah, I, I agree. I agree with Father Elijah.
And I think just the, the important thing is that we're
all human and we're always goingto have our struggles.

(23:26):
But I think there's a very different outcome for people
depending on what they do with that struggle.
So I do believe a big reason whypeople lose hope is because the
focus is on me and my circumstances.
And so if I'm constantly just focusing on me and my

(23:48):
circumstances, then if things are going bad, naturally I'm
going to lose hope. But the other option is I
actually look to God like more than I look at myself.
If we are constantly looking to God more than we look at
ourself, then we're always goingto have hope.
I remember hearing this and I really liked it.

(24:11):
And it said, you know, every onetime you look at your sin, look
10 times to Christ, you know, and you can, you know, add on to
that any one time you look at your circumstance, look 10 times
to Christ. There's always hope when you
look to him, always, you know, like Christ is risen.

(24:34):
That means he came back from thedead.
That means there's there is no such thing as lost hope.
Even if something seems hopeless, here's the hope.
So you guys have identified the struggle, so to speak, and how
by looking at other people's, bylooking at what they have to go
through. You sort of focus then on
yourself and say I need to be better in a sense as well.

(24:56):
If I could do one thing, becausethis is our first time having
two guests on. Could you guys, you guys can
take a turn, but can you guys ask each other a question that
you've always wanted to know as another priest or as a fellow
priest in the same congregation?Yeah.
I'd actually really like to ask Father Elijah this.
So I see his parents at church and I love them like I love them

(25:18):
so much. They have a beautiful spirit,
you know. So actually my question to
Father Elijah is what is something that you greatly
admire about your mum and what is something that you greatly
admire about your dad? Other than the mirror.
OK, I can answer that with with some stories actually.

(25:41):
So one time I walked into my home and my mom said to me, oh,
your dad's driving me crazy. I said, what's wrong?
And there was a royal wedding on.
It was a long time ago and my mom likes the Royals and she's
just, you know, talking about it.
And she makes some comment aboutthe Princess and my dad just

(26:04):
doesn't have a bar of it. And then she said, do you know
what he said to me when I said something about the Princess?
He said to me, I don't speak about people.
And she said it's the Princess of England or Denmark, it's on
TVI don't speak about people. So I really admire that.
Like he's just very principled and it's just the rule of life

(26:27):
and it is what it is. I admire about my mum, her love.
And a good example of that is when I was trying to explain to
my children how much Jesus lovesthem, the question that one of
them asked was, does she love uslike more than Jesus?
Like that was the like because that was her experience of her

(26:50):
grandmother's love. That that was that was the
benchmark. So that's yeah, it's really,
really. So that's something I admire.
And so my father right back at you, please tell us what do you
admire about your mum and your. Dad, oh, my mum and my dad, I
love him so. I love him so much.
So something I really love aboutmy mum is her thankfulness.

(27:13):
So she, I'll, I'll, I'll spare the name of the hospital, you
know, just so doesn't Chuck Shade, you know, at any
hospital, but she was at a hospital which does not have a
good reputation. People like, I know someone
who's worked there didn't want to even work there anymore, just
wanted to leave. And guess which, you know, all
of this sort of thing. And one time my mum was in this

(27:33):
hospital and, you know, people naturally want to get out of
hospital. My mum, when she's in hospital,
she's laying down on the bed and, you know, the ceiling, just
like here is white and the curtain is blue, you know, to
have your privacy. And then my mum was like, yeah,
it's like heaven. White for the ceiling, blue in

(27:57):
the curtain. It's, it's so beautiful, you
know, and she's just so grateful.
So I love that. I love that about my mum.
She's grateful about perspective.
I love that. She's able to have a great time,
you know, wherever she is. And thank God that she, that
she's like that. And she thanks God always.
And for my dad, he is like so simple.

(28:19):
So you give him a dollar, he'll live on that happy man.
You give him $1,000,000, he'll live on that happy man.
Any leftover food in the fridge,you'll just mix it up on top of
each other. He'll never make this sort of
dish again because it would be just the first time we eat it.
You just eat it. Simplicity, happy and just,
yeah, just content. That's how I describe my dad.

(28:43):
Content. He's a content man.
You're both definitely byproducts of your parents.
Definitely, yeah. It reminds me of when you're
describing your dad like my favorite definition of wealth.
You know, it's a question now that like many maybe young
people aspiring, you know, what's the definition of wealth
when you have to buy this and you don't think about it, or

(29:03):
when you can go, yeah, passive income or you can go on holidays
or you can freedom, freedom, financial freedom.
But St. Jungk system has a definition
which your dad reminds me of, that the wealthy man is not the
man that has much, but the man that wants little.
And therefore the king can be poorest of all and the beggar
can be wealthiest of all. So there you go.

(29:26):
So hopefully this is the best YouTube video out there about
how to get rich quick. Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, Rich Quick, it's a great title of yeah.
I might use that. Episode 4 Episode 4 How to get
rich quick. Priest tell you how to get rich
quick. Money scheme.
So now thank you for that. Honestly, I've we always ask the

(29:48):
questions and we do research, but sometimes just having you 2
just ask each other is the perfect way to sort of segue
into things. Thank our parents so.
I had another question on when you were in your professional
careers or even when you were throughout university, how did
you carry Christ with you into your professional career?
Because a lot of us get lost in,in our, in our careers and our

(30:11):
business of our lives that we don't really carry Christ with
us. But I do know personally from
both of you that you really did carry Christ with you.
So can you give us a bit of an example of how someone or how
you personally carried Christ inyour career?
Look, I think it's, it's very easy working in health to do

(30:34):
that, OK. And I still practice one day a
week and I it's so easy. My patients know I'm a priest.
They ask for prayers, they visit, I get to visit them in
hospital. It's so easy.
It's so easy, you know, because as simple says like all that you

(30:56):
do do as to the Lord. So I'm not here just to do a
job, but the job is a vehicle for me to practice my
Christianity. It's a vehicle for me to show
love. And so no one is going to say in
your job description if your patience very unwell, give them

(31:18):
a call the next day or if you send them to hospital, visit
them or if their spouse dies, goto the funeral.
That's not in the job description.
But this is if I'm doing this asto the Lord, then that's
naturally what you're going to do.
And it's not limited to working in health in any field.
You're you're there at work because we need to provide for

(31:42):
our necessities to live fine, but it's so important like to
know that there is a higher calling to show love, to show
mercy. Your colleague who's next to you
is suffering. You know, you don't know what
they're going through. So yes, you did do your job, but

(32:02):
care about them, visit them, love them, the way that you deal
with people, you know, who are senior in the organization and
junior in the organization with respect because they are made in
the image and likeness of God. So work is not an obstacle to
spirituality, but it can be a very powerful vehicle.
It's very dangerous for someone just to think that, yeah, I, you

(32:24):
know, I go to church on Sunday for two hours and then that's
it. You know, like, you know,
there's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
All I do, I do ask to the Lord. I can vouch for that because you
were my GP before you were a priest as well.
And I remember I was very sick one time and then the next day I
see you calling me, just asking about how I was.
And I thought, wow, this is he'sgoing to be my GP forever.

(32:47):
A week later, you got ordained apriest.
Sometimes you just want to make sure you're still alive and I'm
not going to get sued. How about you, Father Anthony?
I love the way Father Elijah described it.
You know, you don't wake up in the morning be like, I'll take
Christ to work today and you know tomorrow I'll leave him at

(33:08):
home. And that's not the that's not
the life of a Christian actually.
So the Lord said abide in me andI in you, not in certain
locations. He just said abide in me and I
in you everywhere you go, abide in me and and I in you.
And Mother Teresa said somethingreally beautiful.
She said prayer is in all our gestures.

(33:33):
So some people might say I don'thave time to pray, you know, as
long as maybe a priest has or whatever it may be.
But prayer is in all our gestures, in everything we do.
It can be a prayer, the way thatyou speak to somebody or you're
speaking to them in that way, inthat kind way, in that gentle

(33:53):
way, in that wise way, in that loving way because of your
connection to Christ, your prayer, you know, So it's in
it's in everything you do. I love this example.
I heard it from Father Anthony Messer from America.
But he said, like, you know, if life is like a pie, a lot of us,
what we do, we divide our life into slices.

(34:16):
We'll say, you know, like 20% ofmy slice is for, you know, my
spiritual life, 40% of my slice,you know, is for career, you
know, so on and so forth. And then he said, no, if life is
like a pie, then God is not a slice of the pie.

(34:36):
He is the feeling of the pie. So he is in every slice.
So if I'm playing sport, he's with me.
If I'm playing, you know something, with my children,
he's with me. If I'm at work, he's with me.
Whatever we're doing, he is withus.
He feels everything. He's All in all.
Well, I would say something you guys brought up the point of not

(34:58):
necessarily bringing God with, like taking God with you one day
and not the other day. But you guys are in the medical
profession. If I could steer that to say any
other profession where there's one thing that's common, it's
the culture, the work culture, who you are sort of who you
surround yourself with, say father, you surround yourself
with other GPS who are married and kids and it's sort of what

(35:19):
it becomes like. But for example, a tradie, A
tradie will be surrounded by guys who will swear all day, who
will go smoke, who maybe have tospend their money on things that
they shouldn't. How do you then?
How do you then propel God in that?
How do you sort of take yourselfaway from that?

(35:40):
Because that's more of a strength in numbers game.
So like with the culture? Look, I think setting the
boundaries very clearly from thebeginning makes your life easier
in the long run, OK? If if you say sometimes you go,
you know, to things that are notsuitable, things that are not

(36:00):
helpful and sometimes you don't,then you're always going to
just, you know, have this tension, OK, Should I go?
Should I not? People are going to invite you
if from the very beginning you make it sort of clear that no,
that's, that's not for me, OK, People will think you're weird.
That's OK, once, twice, three times, then you will stop

(36:22):
getting involved, which is actually good now with the
ongoing relationship in that workplace.
You know, you're, as I mentionedbefore, being kind to people,
being compassionate, being, you know, there for them in their
time of need, you know, supporting them any way you can,
the way that you deal at work with, you know, as a Christian

(36:43):
first and foremost with honesty with so that then maybe people
will, you know, come and respectyou and not just think that you
are like a religious Nutter. But and even if, if they do,
then so be it. So I think, I think it's like
it's important not to make excuses and just say, Oh, look,
the the environment is bad and I'm the one that's going to pay

(37:06):
a very heavy price for them. If I can on that point, share a
story about Father Anthony before you were priest as well.
I remember one time we went to the beach.
It was me, you and maybe two or three of my friends.
And when we're at the beach, something was in the air.
There was a lot of, let's just say poorly dressed people, very

(37:30):
poorly dressed, not only half dressed.
And I just remember something soclearly was if, if it was just
me and my friends, we definitelywould have commented or said, Oh
my gosh, this, that what I foundis like, we all couldn't say
anything because because Abuna was with us And it was just, it
made me feel like truly any environment, if you set a tone,

(37:51):
people actually respect that. Like if you are known not to
swear and you don't like swearing in your workplace, a
lot of people won't swear aroundyou.
I've experienced that myself. Like I'll have, I work with a
lot of people and they, they swear and then they, oh, sorry,
George, I didn't know you're here.
Stop swearing. So there is a way to kind of,
even though they say evil company, you know, corrupts good
habits, there is a like a opposite effect sometimes where

(38:12):
if you set a certain tone, then people respect that tone a lot.
I guess moving on, what I'd liketo ask or what I've noticed
personally is I, I find you bothto be great husbands.
I see the way you guys love yourwife and love your family.
So what I'd like to ask you is what's your advice on how to be
a good husband? Think don't listen to us, listen

(38:35):
to to the church and listen to Christ himself the the
commandment in in the marriage ceremonies.
Husbands love your wives just asChrist loved the church and gave
himself for whom so we are called to be, you know, as
Christ, sacrificing, denying ourself, loving.
And so if you do that, then naturally your wife will respond

(39:00):
in in a certain way. So don't listen to us, listen to
Christ in the church. Sorry, but I don't mean to tell
you. Father Elijah sees things.
That's the exact verse I have inscribed inside of my wedding
ring, actually. Ephesians 525.
Yeah. Father Elijah said it.
Wonderful. And I think, you know, like guys

(39:22):
today, you know, want to be heroic.
You know, they want to do something with their lives.
I think one of the most heroic things a man can do is take care
of his house. If he takes care of his home,
Can you imagine if every man in the world took care of their
home, took care of their wives well, their children?

(39:44):
Well, that is heroic because that changes the world.
So if you want to be a hero, just take care of your home.
That's the way to actually change the whole world, you
know, And the way that we do that is definitely Ephesians
chapter 5, verse 25. Go in ready.
To lay down your life for the other person.

(40:07):
Not suck the life out of them, but to lay down your life for
them. Yeah.
Beautiful. I agree.
I'm not married. I thought you were going.
To say. Something I think, I think what
you guys said it perfectly. I mean, sometimes it's easier
said than done with all the pressures and stresses of life,

(40:28):
especially if there are some kids in the mix.
But definitely, I don't think you can go wrong if you have
that attitude and perspective and mentality.
What's the most important piece of advice you could give
someone? In general, what's the most
important piece of advice you can give someone?
I'm not sure. It's very broad, yeah.
If if it was broad, I would say love God and others, seek truth

(40:54):
and love mercy, Love to be merciful to others because this
way you'll live a very peaceful life.
Holding grudges is not good for anyone.
That's the broad, my broad one. Yeah, I think it reminds me of
Jesus's response. You know that love God and love
your neighbor, and on these hangall the law and the prophets.

(41:17):
What is the greatest miracle that you have seen in your life?
Because a lot of our viewers, maybe a lot of them don't
believe yet, thinking to believe.
And sometimes everything we're saying sounds good in theory and
it sounds beautiful and butterflies.
But sometimes some people need alittle bit of conviction, a
little bit of, you know, So if you can, what is the strong,

(41:37):
biggest miracle that you've witnessed as a priest before a
priest, whatever it may be, You can see one Elijah's
contemplating Should I share this or should I?
Not share it while he's thinking.
I think one of the greatest things is, is repentance.
I think that's a miracle. That's what I was, literally
what I was thinking. Oh wow, but.

(42:00):
I just don't know if that's a satisfactory.
Answer. It's definitely.
That's from death to life, yeah.Well, look that that could be
his satisfactory answer. You have to come up with
something. Else.
But please expand though. I'll expand SO someone can be
carrying the weight of the worldon their shoulders.
And then when they realise thereis a Saviour, when they realise

(42:22):
there is a forgiver of sins and they come in repentance,
confessing their sins, turning from their way.
They are a different person. They're they're, they're
different. Like the joy they have, the

(42:43):
peace they have, the load that has been removed and then coming
to Holy Communion, partaking of the body and blood of Christ.
It's, you know, it's exactly what you said.
You know how you're talking about.
It's like theory and like they need something.

(43:04):
This is what I would say. I would say live it.
Try come and see the blessing ofthe Sacrament of repentance and
confession and the blessing of the Sacrament of Holy Communion.
Then you know it's not done. It's it's it's not expressed
with words. Yeah.

(43:25):
Until it's lived, it's going to be theory.
Live it. You'll never regret it.
Yeah, look, I, I, I really have to agree like that.
It's, you know, you sometimes hear people say, oh, no one
changes. People don't change.
People don't change. They're set in their ways,
they're their upbringing, their experiences, their trauma.

(43:49):
Sometimes, you know, and then I said something mysterious
happens and that's mysterious sacrament, something mysterious
happens and people change. And for me, like that's like
that's the greatest joy. Somebody who, you know, may have

(44:09):
been far from God and or somebody who was drowning in sin
or addiction, somebody who had no desire for God and then all
of a sudden, you know, is firmlyrooted in the church and
participating fully in the life of the church.
For me, that's that's really quite miraculous.

(44:31):
So what would you say to people who only want to speak to Christ
himself, like don't believe in wanting to confess with a priest
or whatever the case may be, They prefer to pray with God,
speak to God only. Is that necessarily wrong, or
should you also look to seek theguidance of a priest or a Bishop
or whatever the case may be? Look, it's not wrong, of course.

(44:56):
It's good to you know, to talk to God and to pray and to
confess. Sorry, I don't know the the
references of my head. We read in Saint Paul confess
your trespasses to one another. We read Jesus himself saying to
the disciples, you receive the Holy Spirit.
The sins that you remit, they are admitted.

(45:17):
Those that you retained, they are retained.
Practically, how are they supposed to action that
commandment from the Lord without hearing Many accounts of
the early church practices from the first few centuries of
Christianity referred to confessions, which in those days
were public. So it's something that the early
church did something that in in the orthodox understanding Jesus

(45:40):
commanded and something that waspracticed by the early church.
So I think there's pretty firm theological, you know, ground
for the practice of it, but alsofor there's a practical benefit
somebody to, you know, my personal experience talking to
my confession father, somebody who's a father to me, Somebody

(46:00):
who's, you know, wiser and can pray for me, can encourage me,
can support me, can guide me. Like it's, you know, somebody
that I can be accountable to, somebody that you can befriend
as well. Like so this, I think there's
very good theological grounds for it, but there's many

(46:21):
practical benefits as well. So for somebody who says I don't
want to to do that, it's OK, butmaybe you're missing out on
something. Actually, Father Bishoy, in our
episode with him, he said something like, you know, many
people go see counsellors and, and talk, talk to them, but the
priest you, you get a counsellorplus you get the absolution.

(46:42):
So it's like the added benefit, the counsellor can't give you an
absolution. But I know Father Anthony, you,
you have a very strong passion about the, the, the sacrament of
confession and you've talked about in a lot of sermons.
So can you just touch on that a little bit and and why you think
it's so important and so beneficial and how, how can one
approach confession or how should one approach confession?

(47:03):
Yeah, I actually love something that a priest we serve with, his
name's father, Mark said. He actually says this concept of
when someone comes to confession, obviously it can be
very nerve wracking and you know, they don't want to come.
They may be worried about what the priest thinks of them.
The priest is on their journey as well.

(47:24):
Like we were saying that the priests are human.
And I love how he said what the priest sees is actually a St. in
the making. You know, you may look at
yourself as, you know, horrible and so embarrassed, but the
priest is not there to judge. And I love the way he says that

(47:47):
the priest sees a St. in the making like, and I think as
well, it helps us to be like Christ.
OK, I'm not saying Christ confessed because he was
sinless, but what I mean by thatis that Jesus was lowly in
heart. Jesus was humble.
And confession is very humbling.And so anything that encourages

(48:11):
us in a life of humility is a gain for us.
And God gives grace to the humble, you know.
So again, like, like Father Elijah said, people, of course,
you know, the, the church is never going to say, oh, don't,
don't pray to the Lord, pray to the Lord.

(48:33):
Of course pray to the Lord. You must pray to the Lord.
This is it. But God uses people and this was
his plan in the church that God uses people for his purposes.
I think the misunderstanding comes is when we disconnect
people from the mission of Christ and say, who's this?
This is just a man. OK, yes, just a man.

(48:55):
But when you look at the way Jesus decided to do things, he
decided to use people. For example, he decided to send
out, you know, the disciples 2 by 2, you know, he used people
for his purpose. When Saint Paul, after Christ
appeared to him on the road to Damascus, and then he went

(49:16):
blind, what did Christ say to him?
He was to go to a person, go to Ananias, and then he will, He
will teach you, He will help you, He will, you know, guide
you. This sort of thing, you know,
the Lord could have done all by himself.
But it's in the Lord's plan to use people for certain things.
We can't deny that. Even Jesus, after healing the

(49:38):
leper strangely says to him, go show yourself to the priest for
a reason. Yeah, so.
I think our viewers have got to know you guys a little bit
better now. So what I'd like to do is, is
touch on some questions we actually asked our viewers if
they have any specific questions.
So we've got a, a number of questions we want to run

(50:00):
through. This will be more of AQ and a
kind of style. I'll I'll let Simon start off
with with some of the questions.OK, once again, these are the
people's questions. But so the question is, if
you're sort of in a relationshipwith someone before marriage,
what is permissible in terms of your level of intimacy with the
other person before marriage? Look at the the teachings of the

(50:26):
Bible and the church are clear that that intimacy is holy and
is reserved for marriage. So I would suggest the less the
better. And there's a few reasons for
that. It's a source of blessing for
you, but also it helps you. To be clear, there are, I've
seen many relationships where the physical boundaries are not

(50:48):
kept and then there's some incompatibility.
But instead of the couple figuring that out in a couple of
months, they figure it out a fewyears later, which is a real
shame. Why?
If they were not being physical,then they'd have the clarity,
you know, say, OK, something's wrong here.
But we argue we're different. We everything is a disaster.

(51:10):
But we get together, we cut whatfeels good.
Let's do it for another day. So I think there's a there's a
like blessing from the Lord allows you to be clear.
There's also some scary examplesin Scripture like, you know, I
think it was David's son who is his half sister and he committed

(51:30):
sin with her. And there's this scary verse
that says that, that after the sin, the the hate that he had
for her was more than the love that he had for her.
And sometimes you see that, you know, if people sort of push
those physical boundaries, then let's say I'm, I'm a man and
that happens. Then the person who you're

(51:52):
planning, you know, to marry looks at you and instead of
getting butterflies in her tummyand feeling happy and feeling
excited, she looks at you and she feels guilty or maybe she
looks at you and she feels angry.
You know, So it's wise to to tryto have some physical
boundaries. And my experience is that the

(52:13):
best way to do that is to have aconversation, not in the heat of
the moment, but just broadly, you know, about what you think
the parameters should be and maybe to let your environment
help you to succeed. So to avoid places where things
can escalate, like, you know, private rooms, cars all.
Right. So, Father Anthony, what are
you, what's your opinion on the matter of level of intimacy?

(52:36):
Yeah, I think it's a wonderful thing, definitely, if we're
talking about virginity, to waitfor marriage, because how nice
it would be if, you know, on your wedding day, you say we did
it. You know, by God's grace we did
it. And if we weren't going to make

(52:59):
it to that day, how nice would it be to say I left her
respectfully and she left me respectfully.
You know, we wouldn't have to carry something of maybe guilt
or a burden moving forward. You know, obviously if, if that
has happened, I want to make absolutely clear, you know, the

(53:20):
Lord loves and the Lord forgives.
You know, repentance is, is morepowerful than our sin.
But I think it's a wonderful thing for two people to be able
to wait for each other. I think there's also a
difference between lust and love.
So one of the examples in the Bible is about Jacob, Jacob and

(53:40):
Rachel. So there was a man called Jacob
who wanted to marry a girl called Rachel.
And so the dad did a deal with him.
He's like, all right, work for me. 7 years.
I'll give you Rachel. So he loved her.
So he waited and worked. And then the dad tricked him and
gave Jacob Leah, who was Rachel's sister.

(54:03):
Jacob wasn't happy. And then the dad's like, work
for me another seven years. And Jacob's like, well, he did.
So he worked 14 years. He waited 14 years for the woman
you know that he loved. That's love, you know, Last is I
want what I want and I want it now.

(54:25):
And sadly, people can be manipulated to give their bodies
to other people when they don't really want to, you know?
So I think that's a really good way to test a man's love.
So if any girls are listening tothis, make them wait, you know,
You know, look, I don't usually quote Beyoncé, but if he likes
it, he puts a ring on it, you know, Right.

(54:46):
That's that's the way it works. I love that.
And you know, you mentioned about Jacob, I think that second
seven years, the Bible describesthat it didn't feel like a long
time for him. It actually went by so quick
because you know, of his love for Rachel that it just felt
like a few moments to him. So.
It's a beautiful. Point George.
Yeah. So I actually wanted to ask you

(55:07):
on, on, on that point because sometimes I feel it's sometimes
a double edged sword, the idea or the concept of, OK, if you
fall, it's OK because there's forgiveness.
So I might as well just fall andthen I'll just get forgiven.
You know what I mean? Because you mentioned like
anyone that's kind of slipped up, it's OK, God's repentant.
So how do you, how do you escapefrom using that as an excuse?
I say, oh, OK, I might just, youknow, do this wrong thing that I

(55:30):
know is wrong. For example, fall into sin with
pornography. I'll just do it now and I'll
just go confess. Like what's wrong?
Like I'm gonna, it's not a problem.
And I'll, I'll, I'll feel guiltyand I'll feel bad.
But you know, I, I use that as an excuse.
God is merciful. I use that as my excuse.
How do you overcome that? Because it's a bit of a double
edged sword when you understand God's mercy, but then you also

(55:51):
can take advantage of God's mercy.
I think it's when we treat our relationship with God as a
relationship and not something robotic.
So, for example, the same issue comes up with confession.
And some people are honest enough to say this.
For example, they'll say, you know, I fell into this, you
know, sexual sin, for example. And then they could say, oh, I

(56:15):
knew, let's say it was on, I don't know, Monday.
And they're like, I knew I was coming to confession on Friday.
So I just decided I'd continue up until Friday.
So then the question is, well, are you treating your
relationship with God as a relationship?
Like let's let's flip it now to two people.

(56:35):
Let's say there is a man who's been unfaithful to his wife.
If he was unloyal on Monday, does he say I was planning to
tell my wife on Friday so I justdecided to keep on committing
adultery and cheating on her up until Friday because I was going
to tell her anyway. Does that does that reflect love

(56:58):
from this man towards his wife or like just a transaction or I
tell her done no, it's like the man loves her.
He committed the scene on Mondayand he's like, I love her and I
hurt her and I do not want to dothat again.
Not let's make sure I could do that as many times as possible
before I tell her on Friday thatit doesn't reflect a

(57:20):
relationship. So I think the key is our
father, you know, like it's a relationship.
Yeah. How can we develop that
relationship? Yeah, that's a great question
for Father Elijah. No, I'm, I'm, I'm asking.
I'm asking. Yeah, I think that it's with

(57:41):
time. So Matthew 66, beautiful if
every, if all of us live this, what a world, right?
The Lord said. But you, when you go into your
room, close your door and pray to your Father who sees in
secret, and your Father who seesin secret will reward you

(58:02):
openly. And so I think it's actually in
the closed door of a room or in private where someone spends
time with God every day. This is how a relationship is
strengthened. And I really like what one of
the saintly priests said. Father Bishoy Camel, he said,

(58:22):
like the devil is fine with us talking about God for hours, but
he does not want us to talk to God for a single minute, you
know, So it's a it's a good encouragement after this podcast
that we all spend time with God alone and we don't just talk
about him, but we we talk to him.

(58:46):
What do you think of Una? Yeah, look, somebody recently
just shared with me an interesting like thought, which
is imagine you hadn't seen your dad for a long time, you know,
you and your siblings. And then you finally get to be
reunited with your dad. And then your dad's right there
and he's sitting right there. And then you guys are talking
about how good your dad is. And you guys are debating

(59:09):
actually about the virtue of your dad.
And what did he mean when he said this and what did he mean
when he said that? And and and everyone is just
thinking and talking and arguing, and they're not talking
to their dad. And sometimes we can fall into
that trap. I find that sometimes the beauty
of orthodoxies, we have so much tradition and so much sacraments

(59:31):
and so much richness, but sometimes we get a false sense
of security. Hey, I went to church, I did the
holy psalmody. I went to the liturgy, I went to
youth meeting, I went to Bible study.
I'm I'm good, you know, but all that you're attending and it's
could be even just like a sourceof entertainment, but it wasn't.
There was no genuine connection.I feel sometimes our, our

(59:52):
Protestant brothers and sisters maybe have a bit of a strength
in that because that's, that's all they do is that relationship
and that connection with God. And that's the main thing.
So how in in our orthodoxy can we, can we frame ourselves to do
it the right way where all thosethings add to our relationship,
but don't like put like a shadowover our eyes to make us have a

(01:00:14):
false sense of security that we're doing XY and Z but we're
actually not progressing in our relationship?
But I think just to do all of those things prayerfully
sometimes my as when I said in the beginning that my body can
be somewhere, but my mind and heart are elsewhere.
So when you're in the church attending the service, make sure

(01:00:35):
that your mind and your heart are there.
And if they wander, bring them back.
And if they wander again, bring them back again.
So it's like that as well for priests, you know, like let's
say during during the Lent, you're doing a lot of visits, a
lot of prayers in homes. You know, how, how like how do
you maintain your own like, you know, spiritual life And well,

(01:00:59):
what about when you're on the visits, I'm speaking to myself
that you actually pray rather than perform the pray, actually
pray. So I think that's a maybe an
overly simplistic answer, but actually pray.
Don't just look like you're praying.
So I have a a question from a viewer.

(01:01:20):
This is the question word for word.
So how do you know if something is God's will for you?
Sometimes if you want something,you might convince yourself it's
God's will and take every littlething as a sign, even though
it's not. So how do you differentiate
what? Do you think I like what it says
in the book of Proverbs where itsays, you know, in the multitude

(01:01:42):
of counselors, there is safety. I think one of the beauties in
the Orthodox Church is discipleship and that we do have
a spiritual father, a confessionfather, that if we're in doubt
about something, we're able to discuss something with someone
who really cares about us, someone who's been praying for
us. So I'd say 1 aspect to it is to

(01:02:04):
seek counsel. You know, and there's even an
example of this in Acts 15. You know, there was a debate,
you know, to, you know, people need to be circumcised, you
know, in the in the Christian Church.
And then what did they do? They came together and then they
said, you know, it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us.

(01:02:27):
And then, you know, the decree was made with the decision was
made. And so it's a beautiful thing to
not think we have to do everything solar, particularly
in the Western world. We have a very individualistic
mindset. Maybe it's I have to figure this
out by myself, you know. But no, you know, we have family
in the church. So I think 1 aspect too is to

(01:02:50):
seek counsel. So another thing that we've got
asked a lot was there's a lot ofrecreational activities that
people are partaking in a lot. And one of the questions was, so
we'll go through a few of them, but one of them in particular
was marijuana in particular, someone asked, is that against
God's will? Is it wrong?
Is it harmful? What's wrong with it?

(01:03:11):
Like I don't hurt anyone, it doesn't hurt me.
So what are your thoughts? Maybe I will direct it to the.
Definitely father Elijah with his family doctor background
100%. Look, I mean, I, I think about
marijuana specifically like it'snowadays it's being used more
and more for, to manage chronic pain in Australia anyway, under

(01:03:36):
the provision of a pain specialist prescribed.
And I think if, and, but again, it's usually after all other
options have been exhausted and the specialist has to make a
special application to a regulatory authority to
prescribe it. So, you know, I don't think
that, you know, we can say that the substance is, you know,
absolutely wrong because actually the the opioids, OK,

(01:04:01):
which are used and narcotics that are used to manage, say
cancer pain or manage post operative pain.
It's the same active ingredient as heroin, you know, So imagine
the church came out and said, you know, don't use opiates and
people are suffering with cancerand post operative pain.
So I personally think, you know,that it's, this is not the

(01:04:24):
position of the church. This is my view that it's maybe
simplistic just to completely label a substance as good or
bad, but to use it recreationally, to use it on,
not prescribe, to smoke it, all of you know, and all the other
new and wonderful ways that people, you know, consume drugs,
probably not the wisest thing todo, you know.

(01:04:47):
So I think a very good expression to remember is that
the road to heaven looks like hell, and the road to hell looks
like heaven. And that's not just like heaven
and hell, like for eternity, butheaven and hell here on earth.
Some people are living in heavenhere on earth, and some people
are living in hell, absolute hell here on earth.

(01:05:09):
OK. And the road to heaven on earth
looks like hell. OK.
Do don't do this. Don't do that, you know?
And the road to hell looks like heaven.
Yeah. Be free, be free.
Go and do whatever you want. Actually, no.
Like through the through the gates of freedom we often find
slavery, and through the gates of slavery we often find

(01:05:31):
freedom. Simon, can you play devil's
advocate to that for? Me.
Sounds like that's your expertise.
Yeah, I'm being labeled a marijuana expert.
Well, I I agree with what you said on marijuana.
You obviously have more experience here, but if I'll be
devil's advocate, I'll bring up other things like there's
recreational things that are done even at certain ceremonies,

(01:05:54):
like alcohol, for example, at a wedding.
There's things that are more sort of plea cut, like gamblings
and no, no, things like that. But one I really want to get you
input on because it's everywhereeven maybe you guys will have
it. It's social media.
How does someone, because socialmedia can be very good in a
sense where you can promote certain things, you can have

(01:06:16):
businesses online, whatever the case may be, but can also be
such a deterrent in your life for whatever reason.
So if you wake up in the morning, some people may read
the Bible, some people may go for a walk, others will just go
on their phone for what they think is a minute will be 3
hours. So how do we, how do you sort of
control that? Because social media, I feel, is
a very, very important one. I like what the former Prime

(01:06:41):
Minister of Australia used to do, Scott Morrison.
So obviously as a Prime Ministeryou'd be bombarded with so much
information, tasks, you know, from the get go, but he actually
just made a decision. It's like the first thing I'm
going to read is the Bible. So prioritising is very
important. Prioritising is very difficult

(01:07:01):
though, if the environment is not set correctly.
So I'll tell you something I learnt from Father Elijah,
something I really liked. A lot of teenagers have
smartphones. I think it's one of the worst
things a teenager could have, particularly in school,
especially when it comes to purity, right?
Because the whole world is in their pocket.

(01:07:24):
And you know, which teenager is capable of having the whole
world in their pocket sensibly, You know, so I learned this from
Father Elijah is that don't sleep with the phone in your
room, you know, and if the argument is I need an alarm
clock to wake up Father Elijah, what he'll actually do, even in

(01:07:46):
the confessional, he'll like order an alarm clock for them
like in there, like, what's youraddress?
Like, he can just get it for them.
And I think when the environmentis good, so for example, is it
easier to read the Bible first thing in the morning if my phone
is next to my Bible or if my phone is actually downstairs
charging and the Bible is right there very.

(01:08:07):
Good. So I think making the right
environment is very, very important.
Not just setting priorities, butactually creating the correct
environment to achieve that priority.
Father Elijah. I don't remember saying that.
Or do we? I'm I'm inspired by that.

(01:08:28):
I'll try you inspired yourself. So another point was in that
list we said gambling, alcohol, pornography.
So people say softer things likevaping or shisha.
Like can we categorize them all as as one thing and and have an
answer or do you want to have a specific answer for each one of
them? Why?

(01:08:49):
Why we should avoid it? Why it's harmful?
Or is there like a blanket answer to cover all those
points? I.
Think yes, and Paul offers what you know, all things are
helpful, but not all things are lawful.
All things are helpful, but I will not be brought under, you
know, the power of the bondage or anything.
So I think it's it's it's not necessary.

(01:09:11):
So many other things in our lifeare necessary.
Again, maybe that's just an oversimplification, but it's
there's so much to do in our life to exercise and to pray and
to read and to try to be a good husband and to try prepare, be a
good father or to prepare yourself for being a good father

(01:09:31):
if that's your calling. And to serve the people around
you, to serve your neighbors and, you know, and to like live
a productive life, glorify God in everything that you do.
So I think as much as we can, ifwe're trying to focus on all of
those things, then it might naturally push things that are
less useful out. And not just things in that
category, but, you know, just watching lots of television or

(01:09:55):
like just rather, if this room was dark, we wouldn't try to
push the darkness out. We just turn the light on.
And so it is with thoughts, and so it is with our schedule and
with our habits. You just overwhelm your thoughts
and your habits with things thatare positive and productive, not
necessarily spiritual, all the time.
They naturally just push a lot of other things out which are

(01:10:16):
less useful. On that topic, going a bit of
the course here, it can be a question answered in a minute or
10 minutes, but how do we find our purpose with God?
Like where? Where do we you guys have said
that you found your purpose in serving God clearly?
How does one find their purpose in serving God on this world?

(01:10:38):
Is it through prayer? Is it through asking us your
confession, Father, because a lot of people, myself included,
I won't talk about other people,but they are, I struggle with
finding a purpose. What am I and what am I on this
world to do in terms of, OK, yes, you can try be successful.
Yes, you can try and be a good person, but what about your
calling with God, which is the most important thing?

(01:11:01):
Look, I mean, I think we're always searching for that, OK,
And we have to stop, you know, waiting and just start like just
accepting and just sufficient for the day is his own trouble.
As the Lord said, do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow worry
about its own things. So even as as a priest, OK, who

(01:11:24):
said to you that we found our purpose?
OK, I can do podcasts like this all day every day.
Or I can visit people, or I can prepare sermons, or I can go to
hospitals, or I can do projects,or I can, you know, work on
interfaith dialogue. Or who said to you I found my
purposes just because I'm a priest?

(01:11:45):
I mean, it's a right start. But but like, I mean, it's just
we all just have this constant like array of paths that we can
that we can take. So we just, I think need to take
a bit of pressure off and just, you know, say to the Lord, like,
I'm here, use me. And when the door opens a door,
the wise priest told me this, when the Lord opens the door,

(01:12:06):
don't shut it. And when he shuts the door,
don't open it, you know, and just take it one day at a time.
Yeah. They answer every question with
such wisdom and simplicity you don't know how to.
You don't know what to respond. Yeah, I'm with you.
So we have two medical professionals here.
So I think it's a good time to ask a question that is, you

(01:12:28):
know, a lot of people always debate and ask and you see
especially online. So as to medical professionals,
what is your position on, for example, when does life start
abortion and what would you say to someone that is pro-choice?
What is our, what is your maybe medical professional opinion on
that? And then how does that tie into

(01:12:48):
our faith and what we believe? OK, I, I won't be again bold
enough to speak on behalf of thechurch.
I'm not in a position to do that.
But I I think that an interesting question about when
life starts, we need to think about.
So if you have a human male and a human female who reproduce

(01:13:12):
their offspring naturally is what kind of creature?
I'm asking if you have a human being and a human being and they
reproduce, what is the nature ofthe offspring?
Is it? It's not an animal, it's a.
Human being, it's a. It's a human being.
Fair enough. That's a very fair conclusion.
I think not many people can argue with them.
And so for somebody who is not, you know, has a debate about

(01:13:37):
where exactly life starts, you know, whether it's, you know,
viability or conception or before or whatever.
Like they, the question that they must answer, which I have
not heard a good answer to is how can 2 human beings reproduce
to form something which is not ahuman being and then later

(01:13:59):
becomes a human being? To me, it's quite logical.
And if that's, if that's the position, then an explanation is
needed for, you know, how is it not a human being?
What actually is it? When does it become a human
being? And how did you reach that
conclusion? And so I think with that in

(01:14:20):
mind, for me, conception is the is the beginning of life because
other other arguments say about consciousness, some OK, but what
about if I'm under a general anesthetic or asleep?
I'm still a human being. Other people might argue about,
you know, intellectual capacity,but there's a problem with that.

(01:14:42):
What about if there's a a human being who has less mental
capacity? Are they less alive?
Are they less human? No, They're treated with dignity
and respect in our developed world.
Thank God. OK, sometimes people talk about
birth, you know, it's some very extreme, you know, position on
this is that it's OK up until the moment of birth.

(01:15:06):
Because they they kind of argue it's the it's still part of the
mum's body, it needs the mum to live, so therefore the mum can
make the choice. Yeah, so.
Separate DNA though as well. Yeah, and just.
The and it, it needs the mum, the mum to live, of course, you
know, after delivery. And so the birth canal is a
matter of centimeters. So then like there's an absurd

(01:15:26):
conclusion there that moving centimeters.
From here to here. You know, is is going to dictate
my humanness. So it's, it's very, very, it's
very tricky. It's really, really tricky, but
at the same time, like, you know, people who are
contemplating this, you know, like your feel for them, they're

(01:15:49):
suffering, they're suffering, they're in difficult
circumstances and they should betreated with compassion and
treated with respect and treatedwith understanding and, and
supported. So I think again, it's very,
very like it's unwise just to kind of like label people as,
you know, horrible, godless, unethical.

(01:16:11):
Like that's really, really, really unwise.
It's a complex topic and respectneeds to be shown when
discussing it, and compassion needs to be shown I think as
well. OK, so the other thing that's

(01:16:32):
been talked about a lot lately is the concept of gender
identity that's come up and I think now people are calming
down with it. To be honest, it was much more
intense and we had a lot of fears in terms of even it within
our schools, people take what they're teaching our our kids
and things like that. So how do how can we approach
that and how can we safeguard our kids against that kind of

(01:16:54):
ideology or, or concept? Because sometimes trying, what I
find is trying to talk to a child about something like that,
you find that yourself that you may be opening some doors that
that they didn't open themselves, but you want to get
ahead of it. Same with talking to your child
about, for example, pornography.Like you want to try and protect
them, but at the same time you're feeling it's a, it's a
bit of a double edged sword because giving them the skills

(01:17:15):
and equipment to understand, butthen you also maybe open the
door or curiosity or expose something that you're not ready
to expose. So how would you handle that?
What? Do you think about?
It's exactly what Father. Elijah said.
You know, when these topics comeup, things can be very, very

(01:17:37):
heated. You know, whether it's like with
things like abortion, people whoare pro-life, they may be made
out to be people who hate women.That's not the case.
And then people who believe in abortion, then they may be made
out to be people who hate babies, you know, And then,

(01:17:58):
like, it's often these factions that are made.
But I think whenever it comes totopics like abortion, gender
identity, always remember, you're dealing with a soul,
you're dealing with a person, you're dealing with a human.
And so like Father Elijah said, we need to speak with wisdom,
with love and respect to everybody.

(01:18:21):
But at the same time, there are points which are important and
that can be made, I think, with gender identity.
I think there was a very wise priest who was speaking about
there's a difference between perception and reality.
They're two different things, perception and reality.

(01:18:44):
And so, like, you maybe view a discretion for this, speak
about, you know, anorexia. But for example, someone who is
anorexic, they perceive themselves in many cases as
being fat, you know, or overweight.
But what's the reality? You look at their body, they're

(01:19:06):
not. And so if something needs to
change, is it the perception or is it the reality that needs to
change? Because if we decided, OK, let's
go along with the perception, then we may naturally deprive
that person of what they need tolive, the necessary nutrients,
whatever it is that's going to be involved in their treatment

(01:19:29):
because we've gone along with the perception.
And so it's the same thing with.Gender.
Identity. There's a perception maybe of
what this person feels like, whothey should be.
But what is the reality? Like if they view their body,
what is the reality? And so we treat everyone with

(01:19:52):
love, dignity and respect. But you know, like I've learned
as well from Father Elijah, you know, unconditional love does
not mean unconditional acceptance of anything and
everything. You know that's not what
unconditional love. Is like if someone loves their.
Child, they can love them unconditionally, but that

(01:20:14):
doesn't necessarily mean they accept everything that the child
does unconditionally. You know, very valid.
I think another in terms of like.
You know, raising children. It's.
Wise to set a very good foundation for them teaching

(01:20:35):
them about the concept of absolute truth and also from a
young age, making sure that theyare living lives that are
grounded and rooted in scripture, the truth.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life.
So so for my own kids, I'll often just just say to them, you
know why? Why do you think I'm doing it

(01:20:57):
this way? Why do you think we're giving?
Why do you think you know, you know, I'm tired, but you know
I'm I'm going to do this anyway to help mom.
Why do you think I'm doing that?And then they'll often say, oh,
because the Bible said thou because Jesus, you know, that's
what Jesus wants us to do. So just kind of setting that
foundation so that what the Bible says and what Jesus says

(01:21:20):
just becomes the standard of howwe live our lives.
And so as Abuna said in the beginning, if I can teach these
children to be faithful over what is little, then I'm going
to help. Mum, tidy up your toys, OK?
Because that's what Jesus calledme to do as a husband.
Then we can teach them to be faithful over the little, then
they'll be faithful over the match.

(01:21:41):
Whereas it's problematic if that's not a conversation that
happens, then all of a sudden you've got a teenager who has
their own ideas about anything. And then their parents might
offer to them, oh, why don't yousee what the church, the priest
or the Bible thinks? And they're like, since when?
Let's start now while they're young.
OK, so you you would say that. Potentially.

(01:22:04):
It's not bad to expose them, even if it's early, as long as
you do it in truth and in Scripture.
No, that's sorry. That's not I must have so.
What I'm saying is that you don't need to bring that up to a
very, very young child, but you get them accustomed to the idea
of the absolute truth of Scripture on the small details

(01:22:24):
of their when it does come up, then when it does come up,
foundation. OK, OK that.
Makes sense? All right.
Another question I had going again through these topics,
especially having you guys as health, health professionals, a
lot of people are comfortable with the idea of getting
treatment when they're ill or medical intervention when
they're I'll. However, when it comes to IVF,

(01:22:46):
people maybe have a question mark and they say, well, is that
taking matters into your own hands?
Maybe it wasn't God's will that someone would have children or
not. And you're taking a different
approach and, and, and trying tobe God, for example.
What is the position on that? Is it just a normal medical
intervention as anything else oris that kind of taking something
away from, from God? No, I don't think that's taking

(01:23:08):
away you. Know anything from God?
But probably that couple should talk, you know, to, to their
confession father to ask for, for prayers and guidance about,
you know, because there are somecircumstances, you know, in some
countries, for example, where they can do that and choose the
gender of the child and destroy embryos and things like that.
And that's, that's probably, youknow, overstepping.

(01:23:30):
But IVF for a couple that cannotconceive.
I don't believe that that's going against the will of God.
We always ask this question to. All of our guests, I think we've
covered everything from the basis of how you guys started
and when you guys became a priest.
And it's very clear as day that you guys really live your life

(01:23:51):
through the Bible and the Scripture that's said and it
shows a simplistic approach in your life.
So with that being said, we ask this question to everyone, what
does it mean to be the salt of the earth?
And how can we further become the salt of the earth?
Others and you both have to answer it.

(01:24:11):
You go ahead and I'll copy your answer.
Sorry, not a letter copy. Abide in me and I in you.
This is this is what Jesus said.So I think it's impossible for
someone not to be the salt of the earth if they are abiding in
Christ and Christ abiding in them to be walking with him to
love the Lord and then things will flow out of that.

(01:24:35):
You know, life is not necessarily scripted in
everything that we're going to do, but if someone lives with
Christ, then wherever they go, whatever they do, God can bless
that and use it as salt whereverthey go.
Yeah, Beautiful. Yeah, I would say maybe you.

(01:24:55):
Know add flavour you. Know wherever you go, and I said
add flavour. So do not allow any interaction,
no matter how small throughout your day.
If you are salt, salt has an impact, whether wherever it is,
whatever, a little tiny bit of salt, there's an impact.
So your interaction, you know, when you're ordering a coffee, a

(01:25:15):
smile, your interaction. You know as you're driving your
car with the cars around you, you know, like where with your
colleagues, with your family, a prayer for them, a smile, an
uplifting word, an encouraging word, an act of service, an act
of humility. Just add flavor everywhere you
go. Recently there is a a podcaster.

(01:25:38):
Named George Jenko, who I actually very much admire,
actually seeing his commitment to taking Christ along with him
and exposing like his faith and,and through his platform really
encouraged me to even start thispodcast when I was really
thinking about a way to serve God or a way to evangelize.
When I, when I saw some of his clips and saw his boldness and

(01:25:59):
his ability to do that, it really encouraged me.
So I, I very much admire him andhe's going through his own
journey and he's very sincere init.
And he had a clip where he was talking about the Eucharist.
And I think it's important as wehave two Orthodox priests here,
just to clarify. So what I'll do, I'll play the
clip, we can watch it and then we can kind of comment on it.

(01:26:25):
I don't look at things that are dirt.
And put it to the holiness of God, I can never do that.
But like when they take the Eucharist or they take this and
they truly believe that it is actually his body and his blood.
To me that's it's a big no no. But what about the Eucharist?
Yeah, well. Not just Catholics and Orthodox
like. I believe there's real presence

(01:26:46):
in the communion. Protestants believe high
Protestants believe in real presence in the community.
I believe that Jesus is really there with communion.
I don't believe the molecules change.
I don't believe you don't believe that that bread is his
body. I believe that.
Jesus's real presence is really.With me in communion, I don't
believe that the molecules have changed to where the bread
literally becomes flesh. I don't believe that, but I

(01:27:08):
believe the real presence is that it is actually yes, it's I
think it's called. Transduccession.
Yes, to me it's. Like.
Isn't that? Isn't that blasphemy?
Isn't that like idolatry at a whole different level?
When you're worshipping something, you're we're just.
That's the clip he apologized later on for.
Saying that it. Was like dirt.
He was trying to, you know, he didn't.
Maybe he said that. That's maybe a bit offensive,

(01:27:30):
but what is our orthodox stance on on that position?
In preparing for this, I haven'tseen that clip.
Originally, but in preparing I saw that he's a very heartfelt
apology. After it was.
Very, very inspiring, you know, very sincere, very genuine.

(01:27:52):
And you know, so I think that wehave a lot to learn from that
that approach. So again, we risk just debating
and discussing and ignoring the fact that God himself, you know,
is present and talking to him. Of course, in the Orthodox
Church anyway, the sacraments, all there is a physical presence

(01:28:14):
which points to, you know, mystery, something spiritual.
So in the Eucharist, it's the bread and wine, but the body and
blood of Christ is there in marriage.
There's two people, there's a ring, there's crowns.
The Holy Spirit mystically unites the two into one in
baptism. You know, there's water, but
then there's death with Christ and being raised with him.

(01:28:36):
So you know, of course, in, in Orthodoxy, we have the the
sacraments. But I'm very inspired by the, by
the depth of his apology. Me too.
I thought his apology was so beautiful.
Actually, I think it's, it's a lesson to the whole world, you
know, it's very, very inspiring.Actually, I, I, I love, I love

(01:28:57):
that. Clip of his of, of his
genuineness and love and his sincerity.
Something I actually like that he said at one point is that he
can't wrap his mind around it. And that's actually like a, it's
almost like a very orthodox response actually, because it's
a mystery and a mystery. A mystery is not made so that we

(01:29:21):
can wrap our mind around it. You know, a mystery is not a
problem to be solved in this case.
It's a life to be lived in the sacrament.
And one thing I'll say is for anyone sincerely interested in
this topic, look at what the early Church fathers said.

(01:29:43):
So for example, there is a St. by the name of Ignatius of
Antioch who was martyred, devoured by lions for his faith
and he wrote about the Eucharist.
And who is he? He was a disciple of Saint John
the Beloved. And who did Saint John learn

(01:30:04):
from Jesus? Jesus.
Jesus chose Saint John. And learnt John learnt from
Jesus. Ignatius of Antioch learnt from
who John and he when you read his writing on the Eucharist, he
says it is flesh as in it is thebody of Christ.

(01:30:28):
It's it's the body of Christ. And he actually details that
there are people who do not partake of it because they do
not believe that you know, this is Ignatius of Antioch.
And then if you read Justin Marty, these men are both
writing in the one hundreds AD. This is how early it is.

(01:30:49):
Justin Marty, one of one of the earliest apologists of the
church, one of the earliest defenders of the faith, and he
uses the same language, flesh. You know, again, are we going to
go into molecules and everythinglike that?
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about it is the body
of Christ. So for anyone watching, do we

(01:31:11):
want to sit together in 2000? And 25.
And say, what do you think? And pick up the Bible.
Or do we want? To say, OK, let's pick up the
Bible let's read, let's pray butwhat did the disciple of Saint
John say about it? What did Justin Marty, who

(01:31:33):
defended the faith say about it?And not only that, is there any
church in? Existence today where?
You can name the apostle or disciple who began the church,
and that church does not believein the real presence of Christ
in the Eucharist. Is there even one church?
So for example, in the Coptic Orthodox Church, Mark founded

(01:31:55):
the church. St.
Mark, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John,the gospel writer, you open the
Bible, that Mark is the one who preached to Egypt, and that's
the beginning of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
All these years later, they believe it is Christ's body and
blood. The Orthodox Church in the
Catholic Church, sadly, are not united on that official level.

(01:32:17):
But even if you look at them, their founder is Saint Peter.
You follow the succession. What do they believe body and
blood of? Christ.
So it's a good challenge for. Anyone really interested in the
topic? Is there even one church?
In existence today that. Was started by a disciple of
Jesus Christ who if you follow their faith till now, do not

(01:32:42):
believe that So then when did this ID begin so definitely the.
Witness of the early Apostolic. Church, it is that it is the
body and blood of the Lord JesusChrist.
So a question that I have is then why is it?
Important. Why does it have to be I, I, I,
I mean I, I see it as the central part of it.

(01:33:03):
That's why we go to church. That's why we go to Mass.
We have the Eucharist and that'swhat grounds the whole the whole
ceremony or the whole liturgy isthe Eucharist and it allows us
to partake and be one with with with the Christ and be 1 body as
as Christians. So that's what it means to me
and that's what I understand. But a lot of people be like, So
what if it is or if it isn't? Who cares like that?

(01:33:24):
It's very as long as you love Jesus.
Like that may be the response, but why is it something that's
so important? Because Jesus cared about it.
That's why we read in John chapter. 6 And people said, this
is strange. How can this man give us his
flesh to eat? And many of them walked with him
no more. And then Jesus instead of
running after them and saying, oh guys, guys just come back.

(01:33:47):
It's all a big misunderstanding.He turned to his disciples and
said, do you want to go away also?
And Saint Paul also, I think in First Corinthians speaking about
people who are sick and sleep, referring to death or partaking
of the body and the blood of theLord in an unworthy manner.
So it was important to Jesus. I don't think if it's important
to him, then it has to be important to us.

(01:34:09):
Otherwise can we really call ourselves, you know, Christians?
Yeah. And the people as well as well
in Corinth when? Saint Paul wrote to them.
They actually were told like if you do not partake of it in a
worthy way, not discerning the Lord's body, then you are.
It's like eating condemnation unto yourself.

(01:34:32):
You know, and you're not and, and that you're guilty of the
body and blood of the Lord. So Saint Paul uses those words
that they're guilty of just bread and wine, guilty of the
body and blood of the Lord. So it's in Scripture, it's in
the early church, It's, it's, it's authentic to Christianity,

(01:34:52):
what love God has given to us. You know, a bride and bridegroom
give themselves to each other. The Lord did not withhold
himself from us, not even his body and blood.
All right. So thank you again.
Today to the two of you for joining us today, we really
appreciate the journey you took us on, the wisdom you've given

(01:35:13):
us, and hopefully all of our viewers can TuneIn for this
episode and take something 1 little thing from each of you
and go on their way with God. Thank you again.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

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EP 4 | 2 Orthodox Priests on Gender Identity, Abortion, IVF & George Janko

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP 4 | 2 Orthodox Priests on Gender Identity, Abortion, IVF & George Janko