Aaron Marcus on Transitioning Careers, Acting Insights, and Overcoming Challenges

In this episode, Ross and Aaron Marcus delve into Aaron's multifaceted career, starting with his transition from musician to actor and the learning curve involved. Aaron shares techniques actors use to convey emotion and how they handle mistakes on set. They discuss the experience of watching oneself in films and offer insights into the commercial modeling industry, including headshot tips. The conversation touches on the importance of networking in the acting world, the filming process, and the unique challenges of extra work. Aaron shares strategies for dealing with rejections and preparing for auditions, drawing parallels between job interviews and auditions. The episode wraps up with a nod to Aaron's online presence and social media handles.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to anotherepisode of Talk with Ross podcast with me, your
host, Ross.
And I've got a very exciting guest here, atremendous guest, Aaron.
So, Aaron, please introduce yourself to theguests.
Yeah, so hi, my name is Aaron Marcus.
And I've been very, very fortunate in life.

(00:22):
I've been a full time actor for a little overforty years now.
And I do everything that I can get my hands onfrom film to TV, commercials, radio spots,
narrations, commercial modeling, which ismodeling for real looking people.
And I've done over 800 workshops spanning threecontinents.

(00:45):
And I help people break into the industry oradvance their career and got a great family and
a wonderful dog.
And so I'm good.
That's absolutely fantastic.
So I wanna rewind a few years because,obviously, you said that you've you've done mod
you've done your acting stuff for quite a longtime now.

(01:07):
So what age did did you decide to get into theacting industry?
Yeah.
You know, and that that's a good questionbecause a lot of times you hear about people
who say, well, I knew from a very young agethis is what I wanted to do, and I just
followed my dreams.
Yeah, it wasn't that way for me.
I didn't get started until my late 20s, and itactually, I wouldn't say an accident, but it

(01:34):
wasn't part of my game plan.
I had dropped out of college.
I was a musician for seven years, a singersongwriter who's touring.
And I was working with my brother.
When he decided that he didn't like touring anddidn't like performing, which is not really
good for musicians.

(01:55):
He gave me a year's notice to make a long storypretty short.
Went back to school.
I thought I was going to be a physicaltherapist.
I needed a part time job while I was in school.
And I met an actor.
And he did mostly TV commercials, and Ithought, boy, that sounds like fun.
That sounds like a great part time job for mejust to support myself while I'm in school.

(02:19):
And I did that for two years on a part timebasis.
And at the end of those two years, I decided,you know what?
I love acting.
And so I just dropped out again and became anactor, tried it for one year full time.
And that's what I've been doing.

(02:39):
That's amazing.
So, like, obviously, some people who do acting,you know, they do like these like, the acting
school you go to, and you gotta do, like,acting classes and all that sort of stuff.
I mean, did did you have to do any of that, orwas it just, you know, you just took a a leap
into the career and then you just fell in lovewith it and escalate from there?

(03:05):
Yeah, it kind of made me laugh because I didthings backwards.
So I'm not recommending that you follow mypath.
What I did was, because I didn't know anything.
And I got started just by working with myinstincts.
I guess I had some natural abilities, andthat's how I got started.

(03:28):
After doing it for a little while, it becamevery clear to me that my natural instincts
would only take me so far.
And I'm not saying, look, there are some peoplein this world who've never taken a class, have
never studied, have had tremendous success, butthat's unusual.
I mean, of the great actors that you see, thesepeople have studied for a long time.

(03:52):
So what I did was I started working, gettingsome work, But then when I realized that I
really needed to have some kind of systeminside of me that would allow me to tap into
emotions if I'm not feeling it that particularmoment and really know what I was doing.

(04:18):
So then I went back and started studying whileI'm still working.
And I never went to university or anything forthat.
I just studied with people privately, and Istill do.
I'll take a workshop periodically.
Normally it's like one on one stuff, but I tooksome classes, but it was mostly working with

(04:42):
mentors and coaches and people.
That's just that's the style that works bestfor me.
And I did take by the way, I don't know ifyou're interested in talking about this, but I
have taken it was mostly one class, very wellknown teacher, and the class was absolutely
horrible.
The information was really good, and I waslearning things, but the teacher himself was I

(05:10):
didn't like him.
I thought he was nasty.
I thought he was cruel to actors.
And some people, what I learned was some peoplelike to be treated poorly.
Some people like to be embarrassed.
Some people found it therapeutic in some way.
And I walked out of the class because I justthought I'm not going to be treated like this.

(05:31):
There's no reason it's not helping me.
So I learned some things.
But yeah, so I went back and I startedstudying.
And without having that information, there's noway I could have had the success that I've had.
I mean, that's that's quite interesting thathow you just mentioned that, you know, because,

(05:54):
like, obviously, if you're doing these, like,workshops and you're having these one to ones
and private sessions and, you know, you've gota a tutor who's supposed to teach you, you
know, you wanna go in and enjoy your lessonbecause it's like what you said then.
Obviously, if you get into it, you're likegarbage.
You you're just gonna wanna leave.

(06:14):
And, you know, it it's it's unfair on yourself.
You know what I mean?
It's just I just don't understand the conceptbehind why people would like to be treated like
that way.
You know what I mean?
And and I get after it and it's tough andeverything.
And it blows my mind when when I watch a filmor something and how they do the scene.

(06:41):
And it's just like for for example, when youmentioned about feelings and everything and
it's an emotional film or something like that,it's like, how how do you cry?
Like, what do you do?
Like, I got told.
I don't know if this is true or not.
But someone said to me, he went into acting.
He said to put a hole in your in your pocketand then to pull your hat hands on your leg

(07:06):
with some tweezers.
I got told that.
And I was like, is that actually true?
Like, you actually have tweezers in your pocketand pull out your leg hair?
No.
Well,
look, there are a lot of things to say aboutthat.
One, like when you were saying, why wouldpeople want to be treated poorly?

(07:27):
Look, there are some people who feel like theydon't deserve to be treated well.
And being treated poorly, they feel like it'ssomething they deserve, which is kind of sad.
I can also tell you, there are some people insome of the classes that I took, they were
using it as a form of therapy, which I think isa very dangerous way to do it because the

(07:51):
teachers are not psychotherapists, they're notpsychologists, they're not trained for that.
And I've experienced this where there and Idon't want to say this is the norm, but I did
see it once or twice where a teacher was smartenough to know how to push people's buttons,

(08:13):
how to get them to cry, to feel horrible, toshow that kind of emotion, which is not a hard
thing to do.
If you can really get a sense of the person andknow where they're needy and know where they're
having issues in their life, and you just pushand push and then they'll break down.
And for some people in the class, they viewthat as a great acting technique, something

(08:40):
that was just incredible.
Look, being able to cry, there are lots ofdifferent ways to do it.
I mean, for some people, they will just tapinto something very emotional in their life,
feel it, and then show it to the camera.
There are other people and, like, everybody hasdifferent styles, and there's no one right way

(09:05):
to do it.
Some people and it's kind of similar to whatyou were talking about.
You know, I've heard pulling out a nose hair,and then turning to the camera, and then the
tears start coming.
I've heard of people putting a sliced onion intheir pocket, and they'll just reach into their
pocket and, you know, wipe their eye a littlebit.
And because of the onion, they just starttearing up.

(09:27):
And then other people do it, you know, in amore organic way.
Just like there are some, you know, actingteachers who will tell you you've got to create
the life of your character from birth and takeit all the way up until the time of when you're

(09:47):
saying your lines.
And look, that's great for some actors, and Icertainly would never say anything negative
about that.
I've never done that.
I mean, I will think about before I'm I'msaying my lines, what happened to my character
right before the scene started?
So to give you an example, and I'm not like, Idon't wanna make this an acting class, but this

(10:11):
seems like you're interested in learning moreabout this.
So let's say, for instance, I'm running latefor a business meeting, and this is this is
what's happening in the scene.
My first line is walking into the boardroom,and I say, hey, I'm really sorry I'm late.
Okay.
So that's an interesting first line.

(10:31):
However, if I think about what caused me to belate.
My alarm clock didn't go off.
My watch didn't go off on time.
I hit traffic.
I got lost driving to this particular place.
I couldn't find a parking spot.
I had to run two blocks to, you know, go up thesteps and go into the office.

(10:52):
And after all this, I go, hey, guys, I'm reallysorry I'm late.
Now it gives me a reason to show why I'm latewithout stating why, but I feel it.
And so, you know, there everybody usesdifferent techniques.
It's it's just like with with musicians.
You know, if you play guitar, there are amillion and one different styles that people

(11:15):
use, and there is no one right way.
And anybody who says, oh, you know, when you'replaying guitar, if your, you know, your right
hand is angled at a certain way, it's not theproper way.
Who cares?
You know, what matters is, does it affect you?
When you're listening to the musician, does ittake you some somewhere?

(11:35):
Just like you were talking about when you'rewatching a movie, does it move you in a certain
way?
Does it make you feel certain things?
Does it feel organic and natural and real toyou?
And if so, whatever these people did, itworked.
I was just reading an interview with a famouswriter, and was talking about this exact thing

(11:56):
that you were referring to.
And he said, you don't have to create a life.
Just say the lines.
Just say the words.
That's all I need you to do.
So once again, that's one way that people doit.
Some people use method, and they will, youknow, stay up all night and sleep on the
streets because they're supposed to be ahomeless person.

(12:17):
And if that works for you, then do it.
But the most important thing is, does it seembelievable?
Is it real?
If so, then whatever you're doing is right.
That's some interesting facts and, you know,information that you've just mentioned then as
well, particularly that you've mentionedsomething about, you know, with with your lines

(12:40):
and everything.
Now have you have you actually ever forgottenyour lines while you've been on camera?
Well, I'm assuming I'm assuming everyone'severyone's thought of a thing where, you know,
camera's rolling, everyone's on set, everyone'sready, and then you don't have your lines with
you to hand and you're like, forgot what I'msaying.

(13:02):
Oops.
Cut.
Take two.
Sure.
Yeah.
And look, it's it's one thing if you don't workand you don't practice and you walk in and
you're unprepared and you can't get your linesout.
That's one thing, and that's unforgivable.

(13:24):
But we all we all make mistakes.
You know, we all goof things up, say the wrongword, get stuck.
You know, I've seen very, very famous actorsmake mistakes, and what's important is how you
handle it.
And there are some actors who think, especiallyones who are just getting started, they think,

(13:49):
oh, if I goof up here, they're gonna fire me,and they're gonna replace me right away.
And I just don't I've never seen that takeplace.
I mean, you just think about it logically,there are over 100 people on the set, with crew
and everybody else running around, and all of asudden and you've already been cast.

(14:11):
Don't forget, you've been auditioned.
Lots of people have seen your audition.
You might have had a callback.
You might have had multiple callbacks wherethey have you read again.
And for them to fire you on the spot and thenstart trying to find somebody else, you know,
that that's I've never seen that happen.
So what you wanna do is not apologize, whichI've seen people, oh, I'm really sorry.

(14:37):
Can I do that?
Don't apologize.
You mistake.
made Just do it again.
And sometimes, you know, it's nervousness thatwill prevent it.
And in fact, don't mind sharing this with you.
It's not something I normally talk about, butyou brought it up.
It might have been one of my favorite shows ofall time.

(14:59):
It's a very old show.
It was on HBO.
It was called The Wire.
And, people either love the show or they reallyjust don't like it.
I love the show.
And it's it was created by a guy named DavidSimon.
And, I got cast in that, and I had one line.

(15:21):
And what's interesting is sometimes the oneliners are much more difficult than when you
have multiple pages, because they kind of popin out of nowhere sometimes and just say a line
that isn't really connected with a conversationthat's taking place.
And the crazy thing is normally I remember it,it's an initiate a criminal investigation of

(15:45):
any official tolerating such.
Now see, I remember it right now.
Twenty years ago when I was on the set, orwhenever the show was on, I struggled.
And it took me seven takes to get that one lineout.
Now granted, it's a weird line.
It's not the way that people normally speak.

(16:08):
I was an attorney general, and just to say, youknow, and initiate a criminal investigation of
any official tolerating such.
It's weird.
And I struggled, and I would go and initiateCut.
Okay, let's do it again.
An initiated criminal cut.
So, yeah, it happens to everybody.

(16:30):
And and but and also just be honest with you.
All of a sudden, my heart rate is going up.
I can feel my palms getting a little sweaty.
I'm feeling incredibly embarrassed.
Feeling like I'm not being a professional here.
I got it.
I worked through it.
I finally got it.
It was hard.
And so yeah, it does happen to everybody.

(16:52):
It's quite interesting, and I and I love quitesome of, you know, your facts that you share as
well and how you can go, oh, well, yeah, youknow, answer the question, and then you give an
answer to something that you've actually doneand be like, oh, well, yeah, I was in this
part, and I tried to do this, and, you know,I've I've had to do it, like, seven times.

(17:15):
So it's just it's just absolutely amazing.
So is there any like, obviously, like, whenyou've done a film, did you watch it back and
think to yourself, like, oh, that's so cringeyor something like that?
Or do you just I don't know why.
Because, obviously, when a person like myselfwill watch a film, because obviously I'm not in

(17:36):
it, you know, I'll be like, oh, it's reallygood.
It's fantastic.
Or I'll be like, it's a bit crap that, youknow, CGI was a bit shit.
I mean, but when you're watching yourself andyou're you're waiting for your part to come in
and you're like, do do you sit there and get,like, excited or, like, how how do you feel
when you when your film comes out?

(17:57):
Yeah.
So look.
First of all, you never know what might happen.
There was a movie that I did, and oh gosh, Ijust forgot the name of the movie.
But I had a scene with Judi Dench, Dame JudiDench, who was just, she was unbelievable.

(18:26):
She is such an incredible actor.
She was so generous.
She was so kind.
I mean, just because I knew I was having ascene with her, I purposely did not have any
contact with her ahead of time.
And part part of the reason too was I was herpriest, and she was coming in for a

(18:46):
confessional.
And so I kinda felt like I I don't wanna beclose to her.
I don't wanna share a conversation or a meal.
I feel like I need to kind of separate myself.
And I also was concerned about being so nervousabout working with her because she's such as an

(19:08):
Academy Award winning actor.
And so I, you know, I finished shooting it, andI went to watch the movie, and my scene was
cut.
So you're talking about, you know, gettingprepared.
What do you think?
It's like, what happened?
So I wasn't in there.

(19:30):
But for for, and by the way, I know they didn'tcut it because they thought it was bad.
Get cut all the time.
Especially TV, it's timing.
They overshoot typically, and there are scenesthat are always cut, And the same thing with
movies as well.

(19:50):
So when I do watch something, it's not like Isit there and watch it over and over and over
and over again.
I know that things can happen.
They might cut things short.
And the other thing too is, and this issomething that I've learned in, not something
at the very beginning of my career, but here'swhat I've learned.

(20:13):
Even if it's something where I'm not 100% crazyabout, I wish I would have done things
differently, what I do is I think to myself,you know what, in that moment, I did the best I
could.
And I'm really proud of that.
I didn't run off the set.

(20:35):
I wasn't screaming and crying because I didn'tdo what I wanted to do.
In that moment, I did the best I could.
Even with that incident I just shared with youabout the wire.
In that moment, I did the best I could, and Ihung in there.
I fought through it.
And so I think that's a that's a reallyimportant lesson for people that you don't kick

(20:59):
yourself.
Just like if you go to an audition and theaudition is horrible.
You know you didn't do what you prepared to do,and who knows why.
There could be a million one reasons, for yougetting thrown off.
You know?
Is it other people who you saw in the waitingroom?

(21:21):
Was it the way the casting director talked toyou?
Did you just kind of blank out?
Did they give you some notes that really messedyou up because now they're asking you to do
something very differently than what youplanned?
And, you know, I've spoken with people becauseI do a lot of mentoring and coaching with
people online.

(21:41):
And sometimes they'll talk to me about how theyjust goofed us up and they felt so bad.
And it's so important to just know you afterevery audition, if you happen to book anything
and you book the job, no matter how you felt itwent, you need to go out and treat yourself.

(22:02):
Do something kind and nice for yourself becauseyou did it.
And might not have been exactly what you wantedto do in that moment, but that was the best you
could do.
Oh, that's that's absolutely fantastic, youknow.
And I'm sat here just listening to you talking,and I feel like you're preaching to me.
And I feel like, you know, I feel like you'regiving me a pat talk about something.

(22:25):
I'm like, I'm I'm like, you know, I'm finallytouched here, you know.
Like, I feel like I'm about to go go do a bitof activity.
But you know what's interesting, first of thankyou.
And I'm glad this has some meaning for you aswell and for all your listeners.

(22:45):
But I think it's just, even though like whenI'm doing workshops, or like I was saying,
private sessions and stuff, yeah, this stuff isacting and modeling and industry related.
But in many ways, I think this has nothing todo with the industry.

(23:05):
I think these are just really helpful ways tolive your life.
So as a matter of fact, was funny.
There was a big architectural company, and theguy who was president of it was being
interviewed in a big architectural magazine.

(23:25):
And the guy takes horrible pictures.
And they were gonna be taking some photos ofhim for the article.
He contacted a modeling agency, and this is inWashington DC in The States, and he asked, hey,
do you know anybody that could help me takebetter pictures, for this article?

(23:48):
And the owner of the agency recommended me.
So I met with the guy, and I showed him sometechniques, and we practiced a little bit, and
session went really well.
He loved the photos.
He said, normally I look stiff, I lookuncomfortable.
I just don't look like a real human being whenI'm photographed.

(24:11):
And he said these shots were great.
He actually hired me to give a workshop for allof his workers, all the people at the
architectural company, from the architects tothe salespeople who are going out and pitching
ideas for new jobs, and I use the sameinformation.

(24:34):
I slightly adjusted some things, but basicallyit's the same information that I tell actors
who are going out on auditions and what toexpect and techniques to use.
So a lot of the stuff that that I talk about,it's really very universal and things that can
be helpful to many people in all walks of life.

(24:57):
It's quite interesting.
And, also, you mentioned about modeling.
So when you say, like, modeling, do you mean,like, you have modeled or you're the
photographer of the person who's being modeled?
Like, what's all that?
Yeah, okay, so no, I'm not a photographer, butI'm really glad you brought up modeling because

(25:22):
normally you say the word modeling andeverybody thinks of fashion models, which I
understand because they get a lot of publicity.
Now in The States, we're not that smart, so Ican't change the numbers for you.
But in The States, if you want to be a fashionmodel, and I'm talking about a high fashion

(25:47):
model, a supermodel, you are going to bebetween five'nine and six feet tall.
Once again, I can't do centimeters.
I'm not that bright.
Your measurements are going to be thirty four,twenty four, thirty four.
You have to get started at a pretty young age.
And once again, yes, there are some exceptionsto the rule.
But pretty much if you look at all thesupermodels, those are the statistics for guys.

(26:13):
Going to be between six feet and six feet twoand wear a size forty jacket.
And for both men and women, you have to have avery specific kind of look.
It's the only industry that I know of wherewomen make more money than men, which I think
is very interesting.
So what they do is they do runways and theypromote high end designer clothes.

(26:37):
These people can make a fortune walking therunways, you know, doing the catwalks.
Now, there's a whole other, and I've never doneany of that, because even though I have the
statistics or I had the statistics for being afashion runway model, I I never had to look.
However, there's a whole other world ofmodeling out there that a lot of people don't

(26:59):
know about, but there's actually more workavailable than fashion modeling, and it's
called commercial modeling.
Commercial models are sometimes the incrediblyhandsome guys with perfect bodies, beautiful
women, who promote anything from being in Gapcatalog, Abercrombie and Fitch, to maybe being

(27:29):
a patient who has a bad stomachache for apharmaceutical commercial modeling ad.
These are not TV commercials.
These are still photos that you will see inmagazines, newspapers, billboards, posters, on
the sides of buses, on products.
And I've done hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of those things.

(27:52):
The nice thing with commercial modeling is theyneed everybody.
They need people who look like tough, maybeconstruction workers, they need babies who are
one or two months old, they need people intheir 80s for senior living centers, and that

(28:12):
kind of stuff, and everything in between.
One of the reasons why I love doing commercialmodeling is that I get a chance to use my
acting skills, but I'm just being photographedby a photographer.
So what they really love is, let's say it's apharmaceutical ad, and I don't know, I've got a

(28:35):
horrible headache, and this is a pill that willcure the headaches.
Well, I've got to be able to show that I've gota migraine.
Cause if I just do one of these, that guydoesn't look like he's sick, doesn't look like
he's got any kind of headache.
So I would actually have to show that.
And I use the same acting skills of tappinginto previous experiences in my life that will

(29:00):
give me that feeling.
And then typically what I do, and there's awhole technique that I created for this and
that I share with other people.
And I'm gonna look away from the camera, feelwhatever I need to feel, then look wherever I'm
supposed to look, do the shot, look away, comeback.
Anyhow, I love doing commercial modeling work.
And the other nice thing about it is, look, forfashion, if you want to be a fashion model,

(29:25):
you're going be living in London, Milan, inParis, in New York City, maybe, Florida, Miami,
and Chicago, and LA.
There are limited cities where, you know,supermodels actually work.
Commercial models are all over the place.

(29:46):
And even if you live, you know, in Liverpool orsmaller smaller cities, than London, you're
gonna you're gonna find commercial modelingwork because there's always advertising being
done.
So anyhow, I love doing commercial modeling.
So how did you fall into the commercialmodeling side?
Was it was it through acting or was you doingcommercial modeling before your acting sort of

(30:10):
stuff?
Actually, they both started happening at thesame pretty much at the same time.
My very first job was a commercial modelingjob.
And once again, I mean, when I started, I knewnothing.
As a matter of fact, there's something called aheadshot, and that's what actors use to help

(30:31):
them get work.
And it's a still shot, typically from yourchest to the top of your head.
And what you want to do, and I do entireworkshops just on headshots because they're
crucial to, having success in the industry.
But you want to be able to portray and show howyou are going to be cast, what kind of projects

(30:55):
are right for you.
And if you're not honest with yourself, likefor me, look, I look like everybody's next door
neighbor.
I'm the family proctologist.
You know, I'm not the handsome guy.
I'm just like the regular kind of guy.
I'm, you know, the high school teacher.
I'm the college professor.
I could be the, you know, the doctor, theattorney.

(31:18):
And that's my look, just a regular kind of guy,not the handsome, beautiful, handsome kind of
guy.
And so once you understand that and you createthe right headshot, that's how you can start
getting submitted for jobs.
So when an agent that I spoke with said, Hey, Ithink you've got a good look for this stuff.

(31:40):
Why don't you go out and get a headshot?
I didn't even know what that was.
So I just asked her, I said, Well, do you haveany recommendations for places to go to to get
a headshot?
And she gave me names of some headshotphotographers.
And once again, just because I didn't knowanything, I walked in and said, so what do I
do?
And she said, no, just make a lot of faces.
And he took like 200, three hundred shots of memaking faces.

(32:03):
It was a horrible session because I didn't haveany sense of how to prepare, what I should be
doing.
It was not a very good start.
But I guess I was able to salvage one photofrom that first headshot session, and the agent
submitted me, and it was a commercial modelingjob.

(32:25):
I didn't know what it was.
I showed up on the set and I said, what are youlooking for?
And they explained, and I was able to give themthe look that they needed fortunately.
And then pretty soon after that, I actually Istarted doing extra work first before I ever
booked any principal jobs.
And so I was hanging out on sets, working as anextra just in the background.

(32:48):
But I tell you and some actors will tell you,don't do extra work.
It's gonna be horrible for your career.
They're only gonna view you as an extra.
I feel a little bit differently.
I found that I learned a lot from, the timeswhere I could watch actors, really great
actors, work, up close.
I got a chance to network with other actors inthe area who are also doing extra work.

(33:13):
I got a chance to observe to see who are thepeople on the crew.
You know, what what do they do?
Sometimes you even get a chance to listen tothe directors talk to the actors.
Once again, if you're in a stadium and you'reone of 10,000 people, you know, watching, you
know, football match, you're not gonna get achance to really hear that much or watch the

(33:35):
actors closely.
But sometimes you might be in a bookstore, youknow, a coffee shop, and your table is right
next to where all the action is taking place,and you can eavesdrop and listen, and it can be
a great learning experience.
That's fantastic, that.
And it's it's a bit of a shame, really, howover apt to, you know, look upon that when

(33:59):
you've just mentioned about, oh, don't betaking the extra job or anything because people
are just gonna look look at you as an extra,and that's all they're gonna see as is this
person who's just an an extra or anything.
But it's like what you just said then.
Obviously, it leads to new opportunities, andit opens up new doors, more avenues for

(34:19):
yourself.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's it's all about networking, I suppose,in that sort of industry, you know, when it
comes to the modeling or even if it's theacting side of things as well, I know.
And that's that's an interesting point becausealthough I do have a slightly different take, a

(34:40):
lot of times people say, oh, that actor waslucky.
You know, he was in the right place at theright time.
And it's, you know, he knew somebody and theygot in.
It's not who you know, it's who knows you.
I and I think that there's an interestingdistinction there.
It's who knows you in the industry.

(35:01):
That's what's gonna be really helpful.
But having said that, even if you have aconnection, even if people know you, you have
to be able to produce when it's called upon.
Because, you know, even if it's, you know, afamous director who's bringing in a friend,

(35:21):
they're not gonna have somebody who isabsolutely horrible and make the movie look bad
just to bring in a friend.
The person still has to be able to do what isneeded, you know, to help support the movie,
you know, in any way.
There was a movie called Runaway Bride, andGary Marshall was the director.

(35:44):
He died a few years ago.
And it was Richard Gere, and oh, boy, I'msorry, I'm just forgetting the woman's name.
She was also, anyhow, very, very famous actor.
Sorry, I'm not remembering.
Anyhow, the point was Gary Marshall would bringin his friends, people he worked with in the

(36:09):
past, like Richard Gere, like, oh, what's hername?
Oh, I can't believe it.
Anyhow, then he would also bring in hissecretary, he would bring in relatives, and
give them one word to say.
You know?
And so you would do that for a couple ofreasons.
One is when he's traveling and out on locationfor a couple months, wants to be surrounded by

(36:34):
people who he knows and people he loves andpeople he cares about, makes him feel better.
And he knows that he's helping them becausethey can get one word out without it being a
problem.
And they'll get paid well for their one day ofwork.
They'll get residuals forever, because of theirone day at work.

(36:56):
And it was interesting because there were, justspeaking of extras, there were a bunch of local
extras who were very angry because they weresaying, It's not right, it's not fair.
Should be getting these one sentence lines orone word lines, and he's just bringing in his
friends.
I just thought, well, I never said anything toanybody, but I was just thinking, maybe you

(37:17):
need to be really good friends with GaryMarshall, and maybe he'll bring you in as well.
It's like, I get it, you know, and I understandwhy sometimes people might get frustrated
because they don't get the opportunity justbecause they're not friendly with them.
But, you know, that's the way the world works.
So, yeah, it's who knows you?

(37:39):
That's it, you know
Julia Roberts.
That's who I was thinking of.
Sorry.
Julia Roberts.
And she was also in pretty woman, you know,with Richard Gere and Gary Marshall.
Yeah.
No.
But it's it's interesting what you say.
You know what I mean?
And I like I like your, you know, your littlequote then.

(38:03):
Obviously, it's who knows you, not the oppositeway around.
You know?
And it's not who you know.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna pinch that off, youknow.
So we're we're, like, giving extras as well,And this is someone who's been in sets as well.
He would've been on.

(38:24):
So obviously, I don't know if you've ever heardof it.
You know, like, Coronation Street andEastEnders and stuff like that.
Like, it's it's it's it's one of the salts overhere, like, that's quite big.
So someone who I know, he auditioned for that,and he went in to be an extra.
And he had to mind the words fish and chipswhilst he was being retarded.

(38:51):
I sat there talking to someone, obviously, notactually talking, but there was just like then
just like nodding their head.
So they have to like nod their head and likeobviously you just don't take it on like just
look at the camera while it's on.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's just it's weird how you've got to dothese different techniques and everything just

(39:12):
to make it look like because no one understandshow much hard work and how much effort goes
into shooting a scene or anything.
Do know what I mean?
Because there could be two main characters.
And then you've got, say, for example, you'rein a hospital.
Yeah?
And then you've got the receptionist.
You've got the the surgeon or the doctor orwhoever.

(39:37):
Obviously, they're having a conversation, andthen the camera pans round.
And then you've got people sat in triage.
You've got people waiting to be queued up andeverything.
Or you've got people coming in from outside,you know, where the ambulances can drop you off
and all that sort of stuff.
You've got all this going on.
And obviously, the director has to give allthese people like their jobs and their roles

(40:01):
and everything and tell them what to say, whatto do at the exact time and everything.
And I just think it's just mental just because,you know, that could be like a five minute
shoot.
But it took longer than five minutes and peopledon't understand what goes on in their
background, you know, behind the scenes sort ofstuff.
And it's just it blows my mind because when Iwatch a film or a TV programme, when I get a

(40:27):
chance to do it, I'm just I'm one of these.
I'm fixated in like how how it's all created,like how they actually sat there and took the
time and took the effort into putting.
It's just that extra tiny little detail thatmakes it so much better as well.
And it just blows my mind, doesn't it?

(40:50):
It's and and and you're a % right.
I mean, when you think about it, look, for,let's say, a ninety minute film, you know, it's
not unusual for it to take three months ofshooting.
You could do one page in a day, or a couplepages.
Now, of course, it depends on the dialogue, howmuch dialogue there is.
Are you talking about, are there scenes wherethere's no dialogue, but just a lot of action?

(41:14):
But there was a film that I did calledFishbowl, and I was the pastor, and I'm talking
to my congregants in the church.
It probably lasted a minute in the movie,something like that.
And we did 20 takes just to get that one minutescene done because and it's exactly what

(41:43):
saying, and people don't know this unlessyou've actually watched it.
So they might do, it's called a wide shot.
And so I'm doing my sermon, and the cameras arepicking up everything in the church.
And then once that is done, then they're gonnabreak everything down, move the cameras around,

(42:07):
change all the lighting, And then it might bethe shot over my shoulder doing individual
close ups of my congregants, getting theirreaction to what I'm saying.
So we'll do that a million times.
And then they break everything down, and thenit's over their shoulder, and now it's my turn
for the close ups.
Then we do it a million more times.

(42:29):
And so even just for small scenes, it can takeall day to do something like that.
And so, yeah, there's a lot that goes intodoing a scene.
And when you're talking about, like sometimesfor the extras, are told to just mime and not
say anything.

(42:50):
And it was a funny story.
One thing, there was a TV show, this was amillion years ago, it was on NBC, and it was
called Law and Criminal Intent.
And I was a doctor, and my patient collapses asI'm talking to him, and I had to reach out and

(43:10):
grab him.
And then I'm talking to the stars of thisparticular show and explaining what's going on.
So it was about, I don't know, four days afterwe finished shooting, I got a phone call from
production, and they're saying, hey, we needyou to come back to New York, and you have to
shoot.
We have to do this thing again.
And I'm sorry, not shoot it, but I have to it'scalled doing a loop.

(43:33):
I had to redo my lines in a studio.
And so, of course, at that time period, I wasthinking, uh-oh, they hated what I did.
It didn't work.
They want me to do it completely differently,and I'm feeling a little paranoid.
So I go into the studio, and it's this big roomwith a giant screen on the wall.

(43:54):
I have headphones on.
And what they do is they play the scene back,but now I'm rerecording my lines into a
microphone.
So I have to match exactly the way I said thelines.
What I found out was when they actually shotit, one of the extras was talking in the

(44:18):
background.
It was one of the assistants at the hospital,and it was covering up and overlapping my
lines.
So they needed a fresh take so they could getrid of this extra who had been talking and just
do mine again.
So, yeah, sometimes for the extras, they'regonna just ask you to move your mouth to make

(44:39):
it look like you're talking, but they don'twant any words to be said.
It's quite interesting that as well.
You know, obviously, because someone, like,caught up on their end, and now, obviously,
yours, like, panicking and, like, getting thatnervous thinking, oh, what's going on?
I I messed up, or did did I do this wrong, orhave I done that wrong?

(45:02):
And, obviously, a million things have rushedinto your mind then, and then you've got there.
And it's like, well, unfortunately, one of theextras spoke, and it's over, you know, it's
overpowered your voice.
So you're gonna have to it's sort of like mimein it in a in a sense, really, because,
obviously, you're talking into this microphone,watching your lines, like, obviously, like

(45:24):
watching your part, and you've got to reenactthe same situation just through the microphone.
Yeah.
But it's just miming it.
Yeah.
Hell, you know?
I've just got to say my lines the exact sameway.
And you know, because when I thought about itlater, and once again, it's easy for us to feel
paranoid.

(45:45):
You know, like if I'm in a recording studio andlet's say I'm doing a voiceover or a radio spot
or something like that, and I could see on theother side of the glass, I'm able to see the
director and maybe the producer and they'retalking back and forth.
And I'm sitting there thinking, uh-oh, do theyhate what I'm doing?

(46:06):
They're probably talking about what they'regonna have for lunch.
They're probably going over the menu of whatthey're going to eat.
Because when I step back and I think about it,if they really hated what I did on Law and
Criminal Intent, they would have told me then.
They would have given me some kind ofdirection.
They would have given me some notes.

(46:26):
They're they're not gonna, you know, wait fourdays, all of a sudden there's this discovery.
I mean, the the director is watching a monitor.
The director has headphones on.
You know, they hear every single word that issaid.
So if there was an issue with delivery, theywould have told me then and there.
So anyhow.
But it I'm telling you, it's it's easy to takethings, personally.

(46:51):
It's easy to feel paranoid, and and that's whyand and this took me years and years and years
to to figure out.
But something that is just invaluable for me isthat you can't take anything personally in this
industry.
When you go to an audition and you finish theaudition and you don't get the job, it's not

(47:15):
because they hate you, it's not because theydon't like you, it's not because you're not any
good.
For whatever reason, you weren't the perfectperson for that role.
And and now I'm not saying maybe maybe youraudition was horrible.
You know, that's certainly very possible.
Yeah.
Probably not, especially if you've auditionedwith this casting director in the past because

(47:38):
casting directors won't bring somebody else into read unless they love what you did.
Because they don't wanna waste their time, andthey don't wanna look bad if they are sending
in and submitting auditions of people who arejust really not, you know, talented actors,
it's going to make the casting director lookbad for the directors and the producers or the

(48:00):
networks or the streaming companies.
And that's bad for their reputation.
So yeah, you can't take anything personally.
And just kind of talking about that, onceagain, I'm kind of going back into caveman
times, but was a it was the very firststreaming show ever on TV and was on Netflix,

(48:21):
and it was called House of Cards.
And the first four seasons of that show Ithought was really phenomenal.
And I auditioned for that show 14 times overtwo years.
They kept bringing me in.
I would read.
Sometimes they would put me on hold, meaningthat there were just a couple of us and they

(48:43):
were asking us to hold the dates of the shootbecause I was being considered, didn't get it.
Sometimes I would have a callback, meaning theyliked the initial audition, and now they're
calling me back to read again, instead of justwith the casting director.
Now the director is there, maybe the writersare there.
Never booked anything.
And I know that some actors get very frustratedand they start thinking the casting director

(49:08):
doesn't like them.
I mean, the third or fourth audition, whetherit's for the same show or maybe the casting
director is casting other things, And theystart thinking, why should I even bother coming
in there?
Apparently, they don't want me.
They would have cast me.
14 times, I didn't book it.
The fifteenth audition, I booked a reoccurringrole on the show.

(49:29):
And it just goes to show, and it was a good itwas a very helpful learning lesson for me.
I know that the casting directors only bringback people who they like.
And for whatever reason, maybe I was, you know,too tall, too short, didn't quite have the
exact look.
Maybe I looked too much like some of the otherprincipals in the scene.

(49:50):
Who knows why?
But it was the fifteenth audition that got me areoccurring role.
So if you are ever brought back a second timeby a casting director, that means they really
like what you did.
I mean, that that's quite interesting to learnand to know this sort of information as well.
And with some of the stuff that you were justsaying then, it just makes me wonder, like,

(50:16):
they they have to be thick skinned in actionbecause it's like it's like some of the stuff
that you've been saying then, and it's like,well, you know, you you might go off thinking
that, oh, you've not you you may have not donea good job or but they might have said
something to you, and you took it the wrong waybecause how how they've said it took towards

(50:42):
you.
But then again, it could it go back to, youknow, being treated like a bit of shit,
basically?
And they're trying to trying to get you intothat character sort of thing, you know, because
obviously they're not feeling you're thatcharacter.
So maybe they're talking down to you just toget you back up to where you need to be, or,

(51:03):
you know, do you think that people will have tobe thick skinned basically?
Well, you do.
You really do because there aren't that manyjobs in this world where pretty much every day
you're being told, No, I don't want you.
And that's just the reality.

(51:23):
I mean, it's like, in some ways we're likesalespeople.
And instead of selling Mac computers and youknock on somebody's door and you say, Hey, are
you interested in buying a MacBook Pro?
And they say, You know what?
I really like PC computers.
I really don't enjoy Macs.
You go, Okay, it's nothing personal.

(51:45):
They just wasn't the right fit for that person.
It's harder for us because when somebody saysto you, I don't want you.
It's kinda like, you know, you ask somebody outon a date and they go, no thanks, not
interested.
It's easy to take that personally.

(52:06):
But the reality is maybe, you know, you justaren't a good match for that person, that's
all.
And it doesn't mean that you're not great.
It doesn't mean that you might not go out withsomebody else.
But for that one particular person, it didn'twork out.
So yeah, you do have to be and that's a goodway of putting it.
You do have to be thick skinned and not take itpersonally.

(52:29):
And I'll tell you something that I do, and I'llshare it with everybody here because I think
it's really helpful.
When I go to an audition, I do somethingdifferently.
Now, when I say I go to an audition, look,pretty much every audition not pretty much.
Every audition that I've done since thebeginning of the pandemic has been self tapes.

(52:52):
I shoot all my auditions at home.
But when I was going into casting directors'offices, but even though I still have the same
frame of mind, even if I shoot it here, I don'ttry to book the job, which I know it's a little
counterintuitive because most people would say,you don't wanna book that.

(53:13):
You're not trying to book the job.
Why else would you spend the time preparing,shooting, editing, uploading it unless, you
know, you're trying to book the job?
I don't try to book the job.
My number one goal Once again, let me just backup for a second.
Everybody has different ways of doing it, andwhatever works for you is great.

(53:33):
Some people like to manifest things.
They imagine themselves at the red carpet.
They're walking up the steps to get an AcademyAward for this film that they're about to work
on.
And look, if that works for you, do it.
Doesn't work for My number one goal for everyaudition that I have, because I know I'm not

(53:58):
gonna book it, is I wanna enjoy myself.
I think, you know what, it's a Tuesdayafternoon, I get a chance to play.
I get a chance to act.
Might only be two minutes, three minutes, butthat's fun for me.
And that's how I go into every audition.
And then the second goal is I wanna learn fromit.

(54:20):
You know, after I finish the audition, I'llanalyze it for myself just really quickly.
Did I do what I wanted to do?
Which is one of the nice things about doing aself tape because I can look at it.
I can watch it.
And if there's something I wanna change, I caneasily do that.
But I'm never thinking of booking the job.
And I'm not saying I'm not going to get the jobbecause I think I'm horrible and I don't have

(54:43):
any talent.
Look, I have some skills.
I mean, I know I didn't it's not a coincidencethat I booked almost 1,300 jobs, but I'm not
the greatest actor in the world.
I do some things okay, and people like it, andthat's why they hire me for that.
But I think when you go in there, I wanna getthis thing.
I wanna work with this actor.
This could change my career.

(55:04):
I could make a lot of money.
All of a sudden, start building all this stuffup, and I think you start putting a lot of
pressure on yourself.
When you go in there and just try to have agood time, that's And I truly believe that that
feel comes out in your read, even if it's justwith your slate, the way that you introduce

(55:25):
yourself.
Because casting directors, they can smelldesperation a mile away.
It's just like going back to that whole datingconcept.
Hey, if you ask, you go out on a date withsomebody and the first thing you say, you know
what?
I think we should get married.
I think we should start a family.
I think we should get married.
I think we should buy a house together.

(55:46):
It's like, what are you crazy?
You know, we haven't even spent time togetherand you're already talking.
You're putting pressure on me and I can feelthe desperation from you.
And casting directors, they they can they cansmell out desperation a mile away, and that's
not who they wanna work with.
They wanna work with people who have thisfeeling of, hey, if I book the job, great.

(56:08):
If I don't book the job, that's great.
I'll book something else.
Somebody who's just there to enjoy themselves.
That's who they want to surround themselveswith.
And I'm sure the directors as well.
That's who they want to be spending time withon a set.
So I think that's just really, at least for me,that's just really important.
Don't try to book the job when you areauditioning.

(56:29):
Just enjoy the audition.
Mhmm.
It's again, I really like your analogy as wellwith, like, the auditioning and, you know, the
dating thing as well because the the two reallyresonate with each other, and they go hand in
hand.
And it's just like, well, if you you're gonnabook something, you say no.

(56:49):
You know what I mean?
And and people take it personally.
And when you go on a date and you get rejected,you know, you take it personally again.
And it's like the desperation thing, what youjust mentioned then, oh, well, let's get
married.
And it's just like, woah.
And then you're going you're going to thisgoing on to this point.

(57:10):
I'm getting it.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And and They're being confident and thenoverconfident.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, because if if you're gonna go in thereonto this, you know, whether it's a date or
whether it's your audition, and you're like,hi.
Oh, timid and everything.
You know, people are just gonna walk all overyou, basically.

(57:33):
But if you go in and you're like, I, you know,show a bit of, you know, confidence, then
people are like, yeah, okay.
He seems a bit interesting or he seems a bitinteresting.
Let's let's see what they're about, you know?
And you'll probably more likely get a chance.
And it's like, you know, I I've been toobviously, I've not had auditions or anything,

(57:59):
but when you go for a job interview as well,it's sort of like the same process as well
because you've got to do something that makesyou stand out.
Because when you have an audition, you know,them people who are looking for that for the
for these people, they could they could havehundreds of people coming in, you know, doing

(58:22):
doing the cast for it all and everything anddoing all this acting.
So you've got to come in, you've got to beunique and shine differently because then that
way they'll be like, Oh, yeah.
You remember Irene did this?
Did that, you know?
And you gotta stand out from everyone else sothat they remember you.
There's no point going in just doing yourlines, and then they're like, oh, well, this is

(58:46):
like everyone else is just coming.
So now we don't want them in.
You know what I mean?
Just And you know that
Stand out.
Okay.
And you know what?
Just like, and I love your analogy of going infor an interview for a job, you know, a job
interview.
And I talk about this in workshops the exactsame way.

(59:09):
Like if you're going to meet an agent, you'regonna do the exact same thing that you would do
if you're going for any job interview.
What I would suggest is before you go in foryour job interview, look the person up.
Try to get a lot of information about theperson.
You can go to their social media pages, whetherit's LinkedIn, whether it's Instagram, or X,

(59:36):
Twitter, whatever it is, and find out, hey, dothey live in the same area that you do?
Did they go to the same school that you do?
Do they have hobbies that are adventurous?
Can you imagine, like, if you went in and Iwould, just like with agents, if I was going

(59:56):
for a job interview, I would think of questionsthat somebody might ask me and know how to
respond.
Now, I'm not gonna have a sheet of paper whensomebody says, well, what kind of things do you
like to do besides work?
Well, I'm not gonna pull out a sheet of paperand go, well, I'd like to do But if you know
that this person who's interviewing you isinvolved in martial arts, And you are too.

(01:00:18):
I wouldn't lie about this stuff, but you'vebeen studying Taekwondo for ten years.
You say, well, you know what?
Work is very important to me, but I tell you,some of my hobbies are also really, really
important.
Like I love spending time, and I've beenstudying taekwondo for ten years now.
All of a sudden, man, there's this connection.

(01:00:41):
And like you said, you want something thatmakes you stand out.
You don't have to go in there and say, I'vedone this, this, this, this, this in my life,
and that's why I'm the best person.
Everybody who's coming in has done a lot ofreally good things.
Just like for an actor, if you're meeting withan agent, you don't have to say, well, you

(01:01:03):
know, I did this movie, you know, A Man CalledOtto, I was in the scene with Tom Hanks, you
know, the train station.
It's like they see your resume, you know, youdon't need to go through that.
They want to see who you are as a human being.
And once again, these people are going to beworking with you.
They want to make sure that they feelcomfortable with you.

(01:01:25):
So if you're meeting them and you first walkin, whether it's an agent or just regular job
interview, and you treat it like you're meetingsomebody at a party for the very first time.
And you know, just go, oh, hi.
Hey, how are you?
I'm Aaron Marcus.
That's it.
You know, treat them with the same kind ofrespect that you would like to be treated with.

(01:01:45):
No more, no less, and just be a human being.
And once again, think of some questions thatmight be thrown at you.
And you don't have to memorize any answers, buthave a pretty good idea of what you might wanna
say in response to that.
So that yeah.
So you stand out.
You're somebody they like, somebody they trust,someone they feel comfortable with, and

(01:02:08):
certainly someone that they think is competent.
Again, it's just quite interesting some of thestuff that you said.
And, you know, and I feel like how ourconversation has gone so far, you know, like,
we've got sort of, like, similar mindset withthings.

(01:02:28):
You know?
Obviously, I said I said something.
You know?
Oh, well, that that's how I do that analogy,you know, with the workshops and everything.
And I just think it's it's quite crazy.
Do know what I mean?
Because obviously, we've not we've not spoke oranything prior to Okay.
Football.
That's about it, really, I suppose.
And then a two minute brief chat before we cameon to the show and everything.

(01:02:52):
But, no, it it's it's crazy as well.
Do you know what I mean?
So I don't wanna take too much of your timebefore I do because we we we have been on the
call for a long time now.
Is there anything you'd like to promoteyourself?
Is there any website?
You've got any books out?
You know, now is your time to promote yourself.

(01:03:15):
Great.
Hey, well, thank you.
I really appreciate that.
Probably
most importantly, if you're interested ingetting free information from me, just go to my
website and it's how to act and model, just h od, I'm sorry, h0wt0m0del.com.

(01:03:35):
How to act and model.
Oh, did I say the a c t?
Yeah.
Howtoactandmodel.com.
Go there.
You can sign up to be on my email list everyweek.
I send out really helpful information.
You will also find on the website, there's acontact tab.
If you ever have a industry question, I'm morethan happy to try to answer it for you.

(01:03:58):
Not that smart of a guy, but I can promise if Iknow the answer, I'll get back in touch with
you and let you know.
And I'm really good at doing that because,look, I know how difficult it is to break into
the industry.
It was very hard for me, and I spent yearsdoing things by trial and error.
So, you know, I I like gives me, joy to be ableto help other people as well.

(01:04:23):
And that's why I also offer private mentoring.
I do this virtually online, and you'll you canread about it on the website.
I also have a really helpful YouTube channel.
Just click on the YouTube icon on the website,and I've got over 500 free quick tip videos.
You know, you should go there, subscribe, clickthe notification bell so you always know when I

(01:04:45):
upload a new video.
And thank you.
Yeah.
I did write a book.
It's how to become a successful actor andmodel, which is great.
You can order it from the website.
But actually, if you're living outside The US,if you can order it through Amazon, it's much
better for me to order it from my websitefinancially.

(01:05:05):
But for you, it's gonna be much more economicalto order it from Amazon.
So I don't have to pay for shipping, you know,across the ocean.
Or you can get the, electronic version of itfrom my website.
So, yeah, those are the main things.
Sign up to be on my mailing list.
Subscribe to my YouTube channel.
Oh, you can follow me on Instagram.

(01:05:25):
It's just Aaron, a a r o n, r for Robert,Marcus, m a r c u s.
So it's Aaron r Marcus.
Yeah.
Follow me on, Instagram, and you can alsofollow me at the same address on on X as well
or or LinkedIn.
But, yeah, I'm here just to try to help otherfolks out if I can.
And also, this was really fun.

(01:05:46):
I'm really glad that we did this.
And thank you for those great questions.
It was really good.
No, I just want to say like to thank you toyourself, you know, taking time out of your
day, and you shared a lot of insightfulinformation.
I I mean, I have to find a lot of informationmyself, and, you know, I'm quite privileged,
and I'm very, very honored to have someone likeyourself on my my show as well because, you

(01:06:11):
know, you've got a very, very interestingbackground, you know, within your career that
you've been doing.
And, yeah, I hope that some people who arewatching right now take some insightful
information as well.
What I will do as well, ladies and gentlemen,is all the information that Aaron just said, I
will get him to give it to me on Messenger, andI will put it on the description of the video

(01:06:36):
for the YouTube channel.
And I will also put it in the links as well inthe description for Spotify.
So ladies and gentlemen, I just want to say amassive thank you to everyone who has watched
the show today and everything.
And I just want to say a massive thank you toeveryone who has been supporting the podcast.
And and again, Aaron, just wanna say a massivethank you to yourself, and thank you, everyone.

(01:06:56):
Just watching.
Oh, well, great.
Thank you.