This episode digs deep into the warning signs of suicidal ideation and mental health struggles, both the obvious and the hidden. Lisa and Gretchen share raw, personal stories and provide powerful, actionable advice on supporting someone who might be silently suffering.
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🧠 Episode Summary
In one of the most emotionally powerful episodes yet, Lisa and Gretchen break down the signs we often miss when someone is silently screaming for help. They explore the "two buckets" of those struggling—those who hide it well and those who visibly unravel—and offer a toolkit of conversational strategies and crisis support steps. Through personal stories and field-tested advice, they show how asking the right question could save a life.
📘 Lessons Learned
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There’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to suicide warning signs—some suffer in silence, others show clear distress.
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Asking open-ended, direct questions like “Are you thinking of harming yourself?” can be life-saving.
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Holding space without judgment creates safety. Validation and presence matter more than solutions.
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A single person showing up can reduce suicide risk by up to 40% in the LGBTQ+ community.
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Add the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline to your phone favorites—you may save someone’s life.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Episode Intro
01:00 – The Two Buckets: Silent Suffering vs. Visible Struggle
02:45 – How to Spot Behavior Changes
05:00 – Lisa’s Personal Experience with Hidden Depression
08:00 – Why Questions Matter: Open-Ended vs. Yes/No
12:00 – The Power of the 988 Crisis Line
16:00 – Building a Safety Plan: What to Ask
21:00 – Dispelling Myths: Talking About Suicide Won’t “Cause” It
24:00 – How to Respond if Someone Says “Yes”
25:45 – Closing Reflections and Call to Action
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support
🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
🔹 The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – Mental wellness coaching & support – https://schosersolutions.com/
🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads – A raw, award-winning mental health podcast – https://goesoninourheads.net/
🧠 Mental Health Resources
🔹 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline – Free, confidential 24/7 support for people in distress: https://988lifeline.org
🔹 The Trevor Project – Crisis support and suicide prevention for LGBTQ+ youth: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
🔹 Crisis Text Line – Text HOME to 741741 for 24/7 crisis counseling: https://www.crisistextline.org/
🔹 Samaritans USA – 24/7 emotional support for people who are struggling: https://samaritansusa.org/
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spent an awful lot of time yet talking about. What are the
warning signs? Like what. What are the things that we should be
looking for when we're looking at the people around us? When we're looking
(00:45):
at our family members and our partners and spouses
and kids and friends? You and I have talked a lot, just the two of
us, about there are kind of two buckets. I always say it in the same
way. There are two buckets of people in the world. There's the bucket where
no one knows anything is wrong. My dad was in that bucket.
You were in that bucket. Nobody has a clue. Life is
(01:07):
always great. Smile's always on your face and you're dead
inside. Then you have the other bucket where it's obvious. It's like
overflowing because there's so much that the person is
putting out into the world about how unhappy they are. And, and in lots of
ways that can be really helpful. It can be scary, but it can be really
helpful. So there are two different kinds of people. But what do you do when
you find out or you have a hunch that somebody is not
(01:30):
okay? What do you do? Like, that's, that's what I think. In my
opinion, people really need to know because it is
absolutely terrifying when you're trying to figure out how to help somebody.
Yeah, for me, I hid my depression, but at the time I
just didn't know how to talk about it. I kind of like checked out and
nobody even blinked twice when that happened. I didn't put up any
(01:51):
Christmas decorations or Thanksgiving. I kind of
just checked out. I wish that somebody had dug a
little deeper and asked some more probing questions about what was going
on inside my head. That's key. And I'm really glad you said that because
in trying to figure out where somebody's at,
the way that we engage with them, the questions that we ask
(02:14):
them, that's critical. It's so important to ask
open ended questions. And I'm saying this now as someone who spends
an awful lot of my time on crisis hotlines and in
support groups and grief support groups. And we oftentimes
ask questions that are super simple. They're like, yes and no questions. And we think
that we're kind of checking off the box, like, how you doing? Are you good?
(02:36):
That's everybody's first instinct. Are you good? You having a good day? And
then you're going to say, yeah, no, I'm great. Everything's. Everything's great.
Moving on, you know, and then you just kind of flit off and do the
next thing, and nothing else is required of you. And for the person who's
asking, it kind of sort of checks the box of, okay, I was checking
in on my person. Yeah, yeah, I see you. And then at the
(02:58):
same time, it was like, I didn't have to really dig too deep, but I
got the question out there. And the problem with that is that it's.
It's super easy, especially for those. And you talk about
extroverted people a lot because that's how you were at that time.
You don't feel like there's any reason to dig any deeper because they seem great.
So why would you. So, okay, so let's. Let's talk about what do we
(03:19):
do? What do we do when we start to see that something's off? What does
that even look like? What does looking off look like for a lot
of people? Like, okay, for you, it looked like you were disengaging.
You didn't put up Christmas decorations. What else. What else did
you do that was different from your normal behavior? I was a little
snippy. For me, you know, I have a very gregarious
(03:41):
personality. Like, you either love me or you hate me. I'm a little
irreverent, but my temper. I had a shorter
fuse. Like, I can let a lot of stuff roll off my back. But during
those three months when stuff was really horrible, I had a really
short fuse. And I didn't have a whole lot of time in my head
for people that were whining and complaining. I also
(04:04):
kind of. I was sad, but I was happy at the same time.
But when I was sad, nobody else saw it because I would do the sadness
on my own time because I didn't want anybody to see,
because I felt weak. I'm like, I gotta be able to get past
this, but I'd be really sad on my own.
In my book, I give really good examples of what people
(04:28):
can look for and how they can help. We already talked about the probing
questions. Number two, making sure that we're getting out of our own
Head. Even during the winter months, people out of the house. I didn't want to
leave the house. Like, I don't want to do anything. I didn't even want to
get dressed. I had to, because I was still working, trying to have a conversation,
like, a really deep conversation, trying to get me to laugh.
(04:50):
You know, changing my browsing history, like, probably would have
been okay because I was looking up ways to, like,
just be done. Wow. Okay. I didn't even know that. You never shared that with
me before. Not a whole lot of people knew that. But I was thinking of
ways of, like, how can I do this so it doesn't hurt a lot of
people. And then I also, like, had the thoughts in my head of, like, what
(05:12):
are people gonna think of me? And
so, you know, thank God for that little glimmer of hope that things were gonna
be okay, because they did turn out okay. But for a lot of people,
I think they don't have that glimmer, and they don't have anybody to
talk to, or they're at work and they're kind of, like, being
absent a lot, or they're not doing their work or
(05:34):
they've checked out, or they're, like, you know, looking up,
giving away all their stuff, like, hey, here's my new laptop. You can
have it. Right? Those are kind of signs that you need to look for
and help them get the help that they need, whether it's called a
988, whether it's getting them to a crisis center,
whether it's just go to the ER or urgent
(05:56):
care, like, show a vested interest in them because
it's us screaming to the world that we're not okay. Yeah, yeah.
No, that's all really powerful and important and
a lot of it, too. I think it just starts fundamentally with
keeping your eyes open. You and I talked in one of our more recent episodes
about self care and about how important it is to take the oxygen mask on
(06:19):
yourself and make sure that you're good. You can't help anybody if you're not good.
But we also. That means paying attention to yourself. But at the same time,
like, we really do have to be paying attention to the people around us.
We're not here alone. We're here with a world full
of people, with communities, full of people, with families,
filled with people in a lot of cases. And we do have, I
(06:41):
believe, an active responsibility to be looking out for each
other. We can't solve each other's problems all the time, if ever, but
we can be there to hold space. We can be there to just listen. We
can be there to guide someone, to support someone, to laugh or
cry with someone. So there's so many different ways that we can show up, but
at the end of the day, we have to be paying attention. And if we
(07:02):
notice that something is off, like all the things that you said,
you know, work performance is suffering. Maybe hygiene is
suffering. Someone who used to respond right back to your
texts or your phone calls is totally disengaged. Someone's canceling
plans all the time, no enthusiasm for anything. You haven't seen
them laugh in a long time. I mean, all those things, those are definitely
(07:24):
telltale signs. But there are lots of other signs that may not
be as common. But you know them because you know your person, you
know your child, and you know your spouse or you know your best friend. And
you know what their baseline is. And it's when
you notice a sharp shift away from that
baseline that that usually means something's wrong,
(07:46):
something isn't good. And so, okay, then what do you do? Because
everybody wants to help, or the majority of people. We all want help,
right? But it's terrifying. We want to find out what's wrong. We want to try
and help the person through whatever it is that they're dealing with, but a lot
of us just are not equipped. And so right there, you're just like, oh, God,
what. What do I do? What do I say? I don't want to do anything
(08:07):
that makes the situation worse. I think a lot of people have that kind of
built in fear, but we don't have to have that kind of fear
if we have the knowledge of the ways that we
can help people. And you already said the number one.
In my opinion, there are two things equally as important.
Lifeline numbers like the 988 crisis and suicide
(08:30):
hotline, places like the Trevor Project, platforms like the
crisis text line, Samaritans, all of these places that you
can immediately access. You don't have to pay a dime. You don't have to
wait in line for months. You just call. And the other thing
is having conversations. It all starts by having a conversation
with someone and asking the hard questions. And the conversation usually
(08:52):
has to be somebody asking you the question.
Because in my. My case, I couldn't talk about
it because I. Like I said, and I'll say it again, I didn't understand
what was happening in my own body. I didn't understand what was happening in
my mind. I didn't know how to tell somebody how
shitty I was feeling because I'M telling you, like, all I wanted to do
(09:15):
was be done. I was ready to check out, and
there was a lot that had gone. Gone on during that
period of time. I kind of wish that somebody would have, like, brought up
calling 988 sooner, but I wasn't looking for that when I
was looking for stuff online. I was looking for ways to just
get out of my head and maybe having these numbers on your
(09:38):
phone, because you never know when the one a situation's gonna come up
that you are in a conversation with somebody and they need this
phone number or they need to talk to somebody. So, like, for
me, I have the 988 crisis line as a favorite on my phone.
Hopefully I'm never gonna need it again, but, you know,
life happens, and I may be with somebody who actually needs that
(10:01):
phone number, but being there, being present, asking
really good questions, and helping to calm down the
inner demons, that helps. Don't be judgmental. Just
like, don't. Don't be a dick. Don't be judgmental.
Just hold space and see what you can do to maybe, like, talk to them
and get them to open up a little bit more. And if you're not getting
(10:23):
anywhere, make that suggestion for them to call 988. Sit with them
while they make that call. Help
them realize that they are enough, that they're wanted, they're needed,
they're loved, and a lot of things can happen. There could be
somebody maybe just lost their job or they got
diagnosed with a really serious illness, or they've got some
(10:45):
financial stress or legal problems, or maybe they
have a history of trauma. Maybe you don't know what's going on. All you
notice is that there's been a huge change in them and you want to
help. Yeah. And here's the thing that was
so profound for me when I was training to
be on the lifelines. One of the things that. That we have to learn
(11:07):
how to do in every case, with every call,
regardless of what we believe the
level of crisis is because that's subjective. What I think might
be something manageable might be something that throws
somebody else completely out of control. So one of the things that I learned that
was the most valuable was take every call. And so now
(11:30):
I'm changing that for the purposes of this conversation and saying, take
every conversation at face value. Whatever it is
that the person you're talking to, your friend, your family member, your
coworker is sharing with you, that's sacred.
If that person feels comfortable enough with you to have
that kind of an intimate, honest, vulnerable conversation.
(11:52):
You just go into that conversation assuming that every single
thing that that person is telling you is exactly what
they're telling you. In other words, validate, validate,
validate. Because I can only speak in terms of the Trevor
Project, in terms of data relating to the Trevor project in the queer
community, but one single person, and I use this statistic a lot because
(12:14):
I'm just always so moved by it, one single person
who shows up to listen to someone who is in crisis within the
queer community can reduce that person's risk of harming
themselves or taking their life by 40%. That's a huge
number. That's almost half of the people out there who are
struggling, who will survive if one person takes the time
(12:36):
to hold space for them and to validate them and to listen to them non
judgmentally. And those are the keys. That's it. There's no great art and
science behind holding space for someone. All it is is
listen to what they have to say and validate it and be there to
support. Like you said it yourself, and I've said it a million times, we're not
there as crisis counselors, as therapists, as friends, as
(12:58):
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Absolutely. And you know, like you said, you know, everybody's story is
different. Everybody's journey is different. I, like I said, I just had a
lot going on. My little brain, as big as everybody
(14:30):
thinks it is, my little brain just had way too much shit in it. And
like I Couldn't filter out the good from the bad. And no fault of my
friends or, or my wife or my co workers because I
hid what was going on so well, they didn't even have an
opportunity to help me out. Well, look, you can't. And when I say you,
I mean people in general. We can't fix a problem
(14:52):
that we don't know exists. If you don't know that someone is
struggling and you don't know why, how can you
address that? How can you help with that? You can't.
And that's why it's this whole process that we're talking about.
But like, you know, pinpointing the signs, paying attention to the signs, and
then acting on that and knowing what to do. You have to be hyper
(15:14):
vigilant in the way that you, you get someone to, to not
only open up, but you get them to help themselves. And it goes both ways.
Like you can't do it all yourself on their behalf and they
can't do it alone. So it becomes a team effort. And maybe
the team is just you and another person, or maybe the team is you and
a therapist or a crisis counselor or a friend, or maybe it's a family or
(15:35):
a whole community. But it takes more than just one single person.
And a lot of it involves breaking cycles
because so much of what goes on in people's heads. And tell me if this
is true, because this is why I love the fact that you and I have
so many different perspectives to come at this from. You've been there,
You've been in that place of hopelessness and desperation where you
(15:56):
did not wanna live anymore. You were done. What was
going through your head in those moments? Were you actively
trying to throw people off the track? Were you just kind of resigned?
Were you playing a part? Or were you just like, screw it? If somebody
notices, they notice. Yes, to all of it. For me, I didn't
understand how I could tell somebody what was going on. It was very
(16:18):
confusing for me because I'd never felt like that before.
I'm kind of mad at myself though, that I didn't open up
sooner. But when I got really depressed of this last November,
like I didn't hide it. So things that I had learned through
therapy had helped me to identify that you're kind of
fucked up in the head again. But I don't have the tools.
(16:40):
I couldn't open up. And I didn't know how to ask for
help at that time. But I had remembered that I'd seen a
commercial for 988. And thank God I saw
that commercial because I kept that in the back of my head as
all the other stuff was going on. Yeah, that's one of the big things you
and I are out here doing. That's why we mention that number
(17:02):
every single time we record. That's why we
mention that number in every post that you and I make on social
media. Because that one resource can so
often be the difference between life and death. And I
can't think of a better resource that's out there that we put in
people's hands. I mean, that's. That's why the mental health community shortened
(17:25):
it from an actual 800 number down the way
that they made 91 1. An emergency line that people
just immediately. Three digits. And you're. You're getting help. Same
thing for our mental health and wellness. And it's just so
important that. That I think I'm just sitting here thinking, like, about
how isolating it is when you're alone in your own head
(17:47):
with those thoughts that keep circulating over and over and
over again. Like, you must have been like, I just want to hug you right
now because you must have been in such a state. And at
least you. So you were thinking. You were thinking of
other people, and that's not as common. You were
thinking about how your actions and your
(18:09):
potential decision to end your life would affect your wife and your family and the
people you work with and your friends. Thank God. Like, thank God that you had
those thoughts coming through your head to give you even a little bit of
pause. There are so many people out there who don't. They don't
consider the outcome the ramification. They are thinking about one
thing. And most people who are in that kind of a headspace are thinking about
(18:31):
one thing only, which is make that pain
stop. Right. Yeah. And that's why I made the call.
Because it was that call or figure out a way
to be done. And I think I got scared. I think I
scared myself to the point. That's why I picked up the
phone and called 988. Because I was literally that close.
(18:53):
I'm glad that I made the call. I'm happy to be alive today. It's been
a two and a half years of really hard work on myself, but I
wouldn't be where I am today if I'd gone
through all that shit. Yeah, if you hadn't gone through it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
and the juice is worth the squeeze, right? It really. It really is. But the
problem is people can't often see that when they're in the
(19:16):
thick of their emotions, when they're in the weeds and they can't
see anything around them and they, they get hijacked
by, by the depression and by the
negative self talk and by the, the
feelings of hopelessness and inadequacy and whatever else piles
on you, becomes something, I would imagine that you just, you can't even like
(19:38):
lift your head anymore because it's so filled with all
the reasons why you want to get away. I, I, I think the other
two thing too is that a lot of people are kind of self,
self absorbed, right? They may notice a difference in somebody
else, but they don't want to get involved. Right? I don't know.
I'm just going to put a selfless plea out there. If
(20:01):
you see somebody that's struggling, make that attempt, because
that attempt may be the reason they are alive. Reach
out, give them a hug, give them your phone, help them dial
988. It's that simple. I get
it. We all got a lot of shit going on. But for
those of us that are mentally checked out,
(20:24):
having somebody take that, just that tiny extra
step can be a matter of life or death. It absolutely
can. And I think this is a good point in the conversation
to talk about how to have the hard conversation, how to
ask the questions that are really truly the meaningful questions that
will allow you to drill down and know, okay, we
(20:46):
are in a bad place right now. We gotta do something. So when
you're dealing with someone who you either have been told, maybe the
person has told you, they're, they're in that cohort of people who will say how
they feel and you know it because they're sharing it, or maybe you're with someone
who doesn't say it. Either way, you can almost always have the
same kind of conversation. You need to use very specific,
(21:08):
very direct language. And it can be really,
really scary. I mean, I use it when I do a risk
assessment on every single Lifeline call that I take. This is what
we're doing, risk assessments within the first five minutes of every single call that
we take. And they're always the same. We're
asking, are you thinking about harming or
(21:30):
killing yourself? And I know people freak out when they
hear that. They're like, I, I can't say that. You can't say
that to someone because that's going to start them thinking about
suicide and that will encourage them to do the thing.
No, that is untrue. Don't think that way because
there is so much Data to support studies,
(21:52):
to support the fact that when you actually ask that
question in that way with those words, it dramatically
reduces the likelihood that that person will harm themselves or kill
themselves. And here's why. When you ask someone
who you believe is struggling, are you thinking of harming yourself
immediately? That identifies you as someone safe. That identifies
(22:14):
you as a person who's taking them seriously. You're
validating them. You're saying, I see you. I see that things suck
for you right now. I see that it's hard for you right now. I see
that you're hurting right now. And I'm here. I'm here, and I'm safe, and
I want to help. So that's why in
saying the scary thing to the person who's struggling, you're actually
(22:35):
saving their life in a lot of cases by saying that. Then what do you
do? Then when they come back and they say, actually, you know what?
I have been thinking about harming myself or I am
considering ending my own life, then you get some more questions
you need to ask, and they're just as challenging, but they're just
as important. Then you say, have you done anything today? Did you do anything today
(22:58):
to harm yourself? Let's say they say, no, but I'm going to do it this
weekend. Okay, well, what are you going to do? Do you have a plan?
Tell me about your plan. And then you get them to tell you about the
plan. Do you have a timeline? When are you planning on doing this? Well, I'm
going to do it on Saturday. Well, okay, well, where are those things right now
that you're going to use to do the thing? And they say, well, I'm in
the bedroom, and they're. They're right over there on the. On the bureau. Okay,
(23:20):
well, can you do me a favor? Just while we're talking, maybe you're not with
the person. Maybe they're on the phone, or maybe you're in person with them. You
say, let's do this. While we're having this conversation, can you do me a favor?
Can you walk out of the room? Leave that stuff here. Walk out of the
room, go to a different place. Separate. You want to separate the person
from the means that they're going to use to end their life
(23:41):
if that's with them? And then you're jumping into a
conversation about. So who do you have for support? Do you
have a therapist? Do you know about the 988 crisis lifeline? Do you think you
need to go to the hospital? Can I take you? Can I Make a phone
call for you. Can I call a family member or friend? So that's. You see
how, you know, one question leads instinctively,
(24:02):
naturally kind of down that decision tree all the way down
to the point where, okay, now you've. You've gotten the person to admit
what's going on, to share what their plans are. You've kind of
separated them from anything harmful. And now you're like,
okay, safety plan. How do I keep this person safe right
now? And that's what you. That's what you work on. That's what the
(24:24):
rest of your questions focus on. Who's there to help and how can we
get you to that place or that person to help you. So those
are. Those are the warning signs. Those are the ways to have the
conversation. And at the end of the day, the best thing in
the world that you can do, if there is no other option and there's no
therapist in the picture and there's no family or community to
(24:46):
help, you either get that person in the car and drive them to the
emergency room of the hospital or you call 988
and inferior. Those people out there that are listening
for me. Once I made that call to 988,
I didn't see it as a sign of weakness. I saw it as a sign
of strength. Because in the back of my
(25:08):
head, I kind of knew I didn't want to die,
but I was tired of feeling like shit. And so
if you know somebody that's out there, help them make that call.
Yeah, it's worth it. I'm awfully glad that you made that call. I mean, this
was long before you and I even met each other, but boy, am I glad
you're still here. Boy, am I glad you made that call. And if you're
(25:30):
listening to us right now and you are not okay, now you
know who to call. You call 988. And if you know someone who's not
okay now, you know what to do. You have the language, you have
the hotline numbers, and you know the questions to ask. So
keep each other safe, okay? Yeah, for sure. And we'll see you guys next
week. I love you, Chi. Love you, man. Thanks for
(25:53):
joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things feel,
you are enough. And the world needs you just the way you are. You're
not alone in this journey. There's a community here, and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen, and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there
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in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be there
to help. You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of
mental health resources, tools and
content@thehelphub.co. just remember that
help is always just a call or a click away. We'll catch you next week.
(26:37):
In the meantime, keep surviving.