July 23, 2025 • 28 mins
In this powerful episode of The Survivors, Lisa and Gretchen unpack the complex, emotional aftermath of losing someone to suicide. They speak from personal experience—offering raw insight, practical support, and the crucial reminder that healing begins with conversation.
Watch the Video Podcast on YouTube: A video version of this episode is available here: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
This episode is proudly brought to you by Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions Struggling with employee burnout, high turnover, or clunky onboarding processes? Feeling overwhelmed by change or unsure how to support your team’s mental health in the workplace? You’re not alone. Welcome to Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions—your all-in-one partner for building healthier, more resilient organizations.
At Schoser Solutions, we blend decades of expertise in talent strategy, employee wellness, and HR technology to help small and mid-sized businesses thrive. We specialize in optimizing UKG Recruiting and Onboarding systems—transforming the way you attract, hire, and welcome new talent—while also offering custom-built mental wellness programs, stress management toolkits, and change readiness assessments.
Whether you're navigating rapid growth, organizational change, or looking to better support your employees' mental well-being, we meet you where you are—with practical tools, strategic insight, and a deeply human approach.
Because when your systems run smoothly and your people feel supported, everyone wins. Visit https://schosersolutions.com today.
You don’t have to figure it all out alone—we’ve got you. 💙Because your mental well-being matters. 💙
Episode Summary
Lisa and Gretchen dive deep into the emotional toll of suicide loss—a grief experience unlike any other. They share their personal stories, explore common reactions like guilt, anger, isolation, and PTSD, and talk about how societal stigma compounds the pain. Together, they break down what to say, what not to say, and how to truly show up for survivors of suicide loss. If you've ever lost someone this way or are supporting someone who has, this episode is a lifeline.
Lessons Learned
- Suicide loss grief carries unique emotions—shame, blame, anger, and stigma.
- Survivors often don’t recognize they’re trauma survivors, but therapy can reframe the experience.
- People often don’t know how to support a suicide loss survivor, making the grief even more isolating.
- Simple, direct support like saying the person’s name or offering to walk the dog can make a huge difference.
- Avoid harmful clichés; instead, listen without judgment and hold space for real emotion.
Episode Chapters
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Welcome 01:00 – Why Suicide Grief Is Different 04:00 – Guilt, Anger, and the Blame Game 07:00 – The Stigma of Silence 09:00 – Recognizing Trauma and PTSD 12:00 – Social Withdrawal After Suicide Loss 16:00 – Supporting Survivors in Their Grief 19:00 – What to Say (and Not to Say) 22:00 – Four Ways to Show Up for Someone in Grief 26:00 – Resources, Support, and Final Reflections 28:00 – Closing Words of Hope
Resources for Mental Health & Support
🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/ 🔹 The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/ 🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – Mental wellness coaching & support – https://schosersolutions.com/ 🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads – A raw, award-winning mental health podcast – https://goesoninourheads.net/
🔹 Safe Place Virtual Support Group for Survivors of Suicide Loss facilitated by Samaritans Southcoast https://www.samaritanssoco.org/i-lost-someone-to-suicide
Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
A Shameless Plug for Our Sister Podcast!
Our incredible sister podcast, Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads, has been nominated for two People's Choice Podcast Awards—the Adam Curry Award and the Health Award! 🏆 Let’s help them bring it home! 👉 Vote here: https://www.podcastawards.com 👉 Register with a valid email addr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at Schoser Talent and Wellness
Solutions. This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness,
grief, and loss and may be triggering for some listeners. So
please take care of your mental well being by pausing or skipping any
sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 for support. Well,
(00:23):
isn't that a pleasure to have you do an actual, real, live,
professional countdown. Nobody heard it. I was the only one that heard it and saw
it. But that was a pretty professional countdown that you did. That was exciting
because. Well, you don't want me to have it on the screen anymore. Yeah, that's
okay. So we're here again. I love that we just keep coming back
and keep coming back because there is a lifetime's worth of stuff to talk
(00:44):
about. Oh, wow. My pink lipstick is looking. That is a pink
lip gloss. It's pink. Yeah, yeah. You
can't. You can't see it if this is the audio version. It's glossy. It's very
glossy. Yeah. I feel very bougie right now, so.
Hey, G. Hey, girl. So this
week we're gonna go deep in a different way and
(01:06):
talk about the emotional toll
on suicide loss survivors. And
as someone who has lost three people that I
love to suicide over the course of my life,
so it's been a constant thing, constant type of grief.
I can promise you that it's not like
(01:30):
all the other kinds of grief. I'm not saying anything is better or
worse, because grief is grief, and there's nothing good about grief except
that it means we loved our person. But
it's hard. Grieving is incredibly draining,
and especially suicide grief, which I'm glad that we're having this
conversation to talk about. What makes it so
(01:53):
unique? I know you have lost people
that you love to suicide as well, so you know that
kind of grief personally firsthand.
And I just think it's important that we explore
that emotional and psychological aftermath. Because it's an aftermath. Because
you are blown to bits. I know I was.
(02:16):
And it takes a lot to pick. Up those pieces
and, like, a lot of it. For me, it was. The blame game
is like, why didn't I see the signs?
Why didn't they open up? Why. Why
are we just finding out about this now?
For me, that was the hardest part. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big part of it.
(02:38):
And when you kind of isolate
grief, generalized grief, like someone has
lost a grandparent because they were 94 years old and they drifted away,
or someone, God forbid, had Cancer or someone was killed
in an accident. Those are all deep, tragic,
sad losses. We grieve them, we mourn
(03:00):
them. They don't have some of the things
attached to them though that suicide has.
And I think it's important to name those. Like, as we move into
this conversation, I think it's important that we just like call those things out
right now. So when I say that
suicide is very nuanced. It's
(03:23):
nuanced because there is guilt that can
often be attached. What, what didn't
I see? What signs did I miss? Why didn't I
help sooner? Those, those things are
not generally present when someone dies of
a heart attack or someone dies of natural causes in another way.
(03:46):
There's, there's anger. Deep, deep
anger. In a lot of cases for the people who are left
behind, like, why did you leave me behind? Like, my mother could have been furious.
My father took his life when My mother
was 40 years old with a 10 year old child. My mom worked part time
and he was literally there one day, took his life and was
(04:10):
gone and left my mother with
a whole life to manage. She was the
breadwinner, she was my support system. She was raising a child alones.
It would not have been unusual for my mother
to have been furious. In my mom's case, she never was. But a
lot of people are. There is crazy confusion.
(04:34):
I know when we, we found out one of our closest friends took his life
just a little over four years ago. He was one of the people who. You'd
never see the sign. It's like you never had any idea. Like my dad, you
didn't know anything was wrong. And you're. I had a friend, one of my
best friends in the world called me up and said, is it
true that our friend took his life? I'm like, what are you talking about? Who,
(04:55):
which friend? Like, I, I wasn't, I didn't even know what he was talking about.
It's. Your brain is just. Nothing computes
then like you already talked about. There's shame. It
can be so shameful and, and the stigma too.
Because when you, when you go to try and tell people
that your father, your mother, your brother, your sister or friend,
(05:20):
that how they died. Like people just clam
up. They don't know how to talk about suicide.
Yes, I lost my father to suicide. Yes, I lost my
mother to suicide. In my case, I lost a cousin to
suicide. I also lost a classmate to suicide.
I lost a co worker to suicide. But talking about
(05:43):
it, there's still stigma around it. People don't want you
to talk about it. Listen, people, people take
their lives every day. Every
day. We've talked about this statistic. You know how I feel about this one particular
statistic that I've mentioned in at least one episode, maybe more,
but if you haven't heard me say it, I'll say it again.
(06:06):
Over 700,000 people a year take their life in this
world. And for every one human
who takes their own life, it's been determined
through all of the major organizations, all statistically,
that for every one person who dies by suicide,
135 people are affected by
(06:28):
that loss. And those people may include spouse,
partner, family, children, co workers,
friends, and that's the average. So, you know, the number goes up and
down, but it's 135 people on
average are impacted for every one suicide.
And yet, like you said, suicide is one of those
(06:50):
things. Nobody wants to talk about it, nobody
wants to confront it, nobody wants
to be affected by it. And yet, if you add those
two numbers together of how many people die by suicide and how many people are
affected, that's like 94 million people a year
are stuck in a place of
(07:12):
feeling all these feelings about something that happened and no one's talking
about it. And society
is not doing us any favors. Every time we don't talk about
adds to the stigma, it adds to the pain. And
we need to keep talking about it and we need to realize that there is
a true emotional toll for the
(07:35):
survivor. And as you said, it's different than somebody that
gets killed in a car accident, somebody that dies by cancer, somebody that
d natural causes. It is different. You are left
with so many questions in your head
that sometimes you don't, don't know how to articulate or
you're afraid to articulate because of how
(07:57):
somebody might perceive that. Because I'm telling you, the minute you,
you say the word suicide, people are like, oh, I can't talk about that. Gotta
go. And look, we
live in a culture that has created that
stereotype. It unfairly stigmatizes
the act of someone dying by suicide.
(08:18):
So this is how we're all hardwired. It's not because we've all
chosen to feel this way. It's because society made us feel this way.
It's because only recently the mental health community as a whole was
talking about it being okay to not be okay and that
we have resources and things are in the mainstream now, but for the better part
of history, it's never been that way. And you want to know something?
(08:41):
Interesting. And I'm not sure I ever mentioned this last
season. I know I haven't mentioned it this season so far.
So I started back into therapy. I was in therapy when I was
probably 21, 22. It was at that time
I took a gap year. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my
life. So I, to a therapist, I talked about my dad, but not in the
(09:02):
context of suicide. Because if you've never heard my story, I
didn't know that my father took his life for 35 years. So when I was
in therapy back in the day, it was just because I didn't know what I
wanted to do with my life. So I'm back in therapy as of a few
years ago, mainly to talk about my dad and, and all the
baggage there with his suicide. Do you know
that? And this may seem so dumb for people listening, I never
(09:26):
realized that I was a trauma survivor
until my therapist reminded me that I was a trauma
survivor. And I can tell you
that it took me by such
surprise. I just. Don't ask me why she said, you're a trauma survivor just
because you lost your dad as a child. Which of course
(09:49):
I never, I never saw that. I never knew that. And then she said
when you found out your dad took his life, you are a full
on trauma survivor. I didn't know that. That's what
suicide makes us when we are a survivor
of that kind of loss. It also
leads to ptsd. I don't know about you, but it leads to ptsd, it leads
(10:10):
to anxiety, it leads to depression, people withdraw, leads to
isolation. There is a big
psychological impact to this subject that
you and I talk about every week. And
that's why it's so important that we talk about it every week.
And I think of husband and wife teams where either
(10:32):
the husband has taken his life or the wife,
their whole social circle was built around
that marriage. And then having people asking,
you know, the spouse that survived. How did you not see the
signs? Like, don't ask those questions
(10:53):
like we're already grieving. Why couldn't you get them into therapy?
Okay, if you are anybody, like I was, we, we
mask up. We don't let on that anything is going on.
Be kind. It's a, it's a, it's a grief that
you can't get over because you're already beating yourself up. And then
(11:14):
you have your social group beating you up. You may
not realize that you're doing it, but you're beating them up. Yeah, that's a good
point. That's, that's a very important point. I remember
being a little kid, you know, I was raised by a, a single mom
from the time I was 10 years old. And I remember when my mom
was encouraged to go to this group. God, the funny things that you remember.
(11:37):
There was this group at the local community center and it was called Alone
by Choice or Chance. So it was people who were widowed or people who were
divorced and I don't know, my mom's friends encouraged her
to go and she was trying to just meet people
and, and I remember just
that being like the only thing that she was doing socially was going to that
(11:59):
group because people just,
they treat you differently even when they don't mean to treat you differently. You don't
get the invitations to do the things that you maybe did with your couple
friends and your life and your circle get very,
very small. And my mother has always been incredibly
outgoing, very social. Everything was always at our house,
(12:21):
all the holidays and events and
milestones. What if your business could
recruit smarter, onboard faster and support
employee wellness all at once? Welcome to shows or
talent and wellness solutions where people first strategy
meets real results. With over 45 years of combined
(12:42):
experience and 16 years specializing in UKG recruiting
and onboarding systems, we help small and mid sized businesses
thrive. From the first application to full integration,
we streamline your hiring process, reduce time to hire
and deliver seamless onboarding experiences. Our
proprietary tools like the recruiting and onboarding health check
(13:04):
and the employee mental Wellness Index turn insight into
impact at showser. We know that businesses are built on people.
That's why we integrate wellness into every solution. Promoting
mental health, reducing burnout and creating a culture where talent
stays and thrives. Whether you're navigating change,
implementing tech or engaging your team, we tailor
(13:26):
every solution. To fit your goals. Visit
chosersolutions.com today. Let's build a healthier,
more productive future one workplace at a time.
But I do remember that they had their couple
friends that they socialized with and that just, it's sad.
It just kind of faded away. And I, I think a lot of it's
(13:50):
because people just don't know how to handle it. And I,
my take on that is like handle the
death of someone by suicide the same way you would handle
any other type of death. Don't exclude them from your
social group because they still need connection.
(14:10):
Don't be whispering behind their back.
Be present there for them.
And it's not a, it's not a grief that just goes away. It
will stick with you for the rest of your life. I still have questions
like, why didn't I see the signs? Like, why?
Why didn't they come to. Why didn't they speak up? I know now from my
(14:34):
own personal experience why,
But I don't know. Just don't be a dick, okay? Because
that's a good one. I'm sorry, but like, that, that's how it is.
Like, just don't be a dick to them. Like, they are grieving,
they've lost their person. And
(14:54):
when you lose your person, a part of you
goes away, too. And we're, you know, we're trying to
regroup and find the things that we can trust and
deal with our own emotions. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And
I. I'm thinking of something that you just said, made me think about
the position that a lot of people who have survived
(15:17):
suicide loss, especially with a partner, especially with a spouse,
where you were a unit, you went and did all these things together.
I think the thing that people who are
engaging with those survivors are thinking is
let's get them out. I mean, a lot of cases, you know, some people back
(15:38):
away, other people are like, no, no, no, let's get them out and make them
social and introduce them and fill
their calendar. And while that's
incredibly kind and thoughtful in a lot of ways,
there's a big component of
isolation that really kind of in some ways needs to happen when someone
(16:01):
loses their partner because they have now got to
redefine themselves. They have an entirely new
identity. And you gotta give people
grace to. Because if they don't want to
go to the event, don't force them to go to the
event. Don't put them in a position of having to give you
(16:23):
an excuse or a reason or to fight with
you. Let them do what they need
to do at their own pace. Because let me tell
you something, if you're talking about grief
from the suicide loss perspective,
friends, that is a marathon and not a sprint.
(16:47):
Imagine a race that never, ever ends, okay? The
terrain just changes. That's what grief is,
especially grief attached to suicide loss.
Because let me tell you something. There are always things in
this world that you're going to see that you're going to hear, that you're going
to experience, that are going to trigger you. It could be five years out, it
(17:09):
could be 50 years out, and
you're in a pool of your own tears on the bathroom floor.
So the key here is be
gentle with the people. You've said it. You. You've already said it today.
Be gentle with the people who have lost someone and let them set
(17:29):
the pace. And that doesn't just go for people
that were partners. So that goes for people that were friends,
people that were co workers. Be kind, because
they're already dealing with it on their own terms
and they may not know how to, how to
(17:50):
handle it. And if they isolate for a little
bit, let them isolate. Maybe that is their way of dealing.
But if they do call, offer an ear
and don't judge. There's no room for
judging in the world of suicide. You
absolutely have zero idea what's going through somebody's head
(18:13):
when they get to that point. Yeah, that's such
an important point to make in any conversation
about suicide loss. Because people are very
quick to judge in life in general, not just with
this particular subject, but people
judge us for what we drive and where we live and
(18:37):
what we wear. And those things are bad enough.
When you start throwing your judgment around about
someone who has ended their life,
well, that is next level douchiness
that you just do not want to put out
into the world. Because there
(19:00):
is almost always a reason
that does not have anything to do with I
wanted to leave my people or I wanted to leave my life. There is a
deeper, darker reason. Suicide is the
byproduct of depression, which is a byproduct of
mental illness. So. So anybody who's going to make an
(19:22):
idiotic comment about someone
taking their life, having it be selfish, or why couldn't it be stopped?
You don't know unless you know what you're
talking about. So don't even make the comments.
So I have five things that are going to be helpful to say
(19:42):
and five things that you should avoid saying. Did you get that
off the help hub? No, I got it from another place.
Oh, good. But I'm just going to go ahead and say these and then we
can move on. If you're okay with that. I'm okay with anything you do.
Okay, so here's some helpful things you can say. I don't know what
to say, but I'm here for you. I can't imagine
(20:05):
what you're going through, but I care deeply. You don't have
to talk if you don't want to. I'm just here to sit with
you. Fourth is it's okay to
feel angry, confused, numb, or all of it.
And you're not alone. So those are like five
things you can say. All right, now these are the
(20:27):
ones that you shouldn't say because it's total dick move
on your part. There's they're in
a better place. Okay, that can really invalidate somebody's feelings.
Don't say that. That's. That one hurts. At least they're not
suffering anymore.
Everything happens for a reason. Oh, oh.
(20:50):
Did you see it coming? Were there signs? Okay, I'm going to tell
you, in my case, no and no.
And like, why would you even say that? But people do. But
people do. You've got to be strong, okay?
Grievers should not feel pressured just to perform strength,
okay? They went through something very, very, very difficult.
(21:14):
Be kind, be compassionate,
be understanding, be non
judgmental. That's what is helpful. Those
were. Those were incredibly helpful.
I live all these things. I. This is. This is my world. This is your
world. I couldn't have said it any better than you just said it. And that
(21:37):
was, I think, such a powerful takeaway that people can actually have. It's
so important. This is one of the things you and I try so hard to
do in every episode. We try to have the conversation. We try to put
the topic out there in the mainstream, but we're also trying really
hard to give you takeaways.
So if you're now in a situation where someone you know has lost
(21:59):
someone, maybe you'll rewind your brain a little bit
back to this conversation and remember a couple of the things G said to
say and not to say. And that will be helpful. So
yay for you doing that, because that was just so powerful.
Okay, can I give four ways that you can just show up for people?
Yes. Okay, so there's four ways you can just show
(22:22):
up. Just be there. You know, grief needs a witness, not
fixes. Just be there. Offer
specific help. Don't say, hey, if you need anything, let me know.
Instead, try. I'm headed to the store. Can I grab you some
groceries? Would it help if I walk your dog this week?
Do things like that. Respect their grief.
(22:44):
Not everybody wants to talk about it right away. Let
them guide that pace and remember the person
they lost. Say their name. You can say things like,
hey, I saw some sunflowers today and I thought of her smile.
Or I remember the time he made us all laugh until we cried.
(23:04):
Say their name. Just because they took their life
by suicide doesn't mean you can't still say their name.
It doesn't invalidate that life. Yes.
It's like how we shouldn't judge people by their worst
mistake. We also shouldn't judge people
(23:24):
by how their life ended
in the same way, you know.
And just stay curious, but not intrusive. Find out what
they need. Offer love. Don't pressure them to answer
questions that they may not be prepared or ever want to answer.
And listen more than you speak. Hold space.
(23:47):
You know, it's a very, very
gracious thing to just come right out and
ask someone who's lost someone, whether, whether it's to
suicide or to anything. Ask that person,
hey, would it help or would it hurt to talk about your
person right now? Yes, just that simple.
(24:11):
And I know in my case, and we talked about this in the last episode
where you and I were bawling our eyes out about how a friend of
mine on Father's Day shouted out a post to my father
specifically. And not many people in the world are left who knew my father
personally. And he is someone who did. And that was the
greatest gift in the world to have my
(24:33):
father be recognized in that way. And I know a lot of people feel that
way. So it's always gonna be a no harm, no foul situation
when you just ask if that's cool or not cool.
Yeah. And, you know, just be present and be human. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and one, one last thing before,
before we kind of wrap this conversation is that
(24:55):
we've talked a lot about ways in which we can have the
hard conversations, how to show up for your people.
If you don't have someone in your life,
if you don't have a community or a partner or a family or a
support system, you're still. You're still never alone.
There are always hotlines. The
(25:19):
one that comes to mind that we talk about in every episode that we record
is of course, the 988 crisis suicide hotline. That
is not just for people who are feeling suicidal. That is for
anyone who is experiencing any kind of
mental stress, strain, anxiety,
homelessness, abuse, loneliness, you
(25:40):
name it. Anything goes to call 988.
You do not have to be suicidal. But there, there are support
groups. If you don't have your own personal support group,
they're virtual. I know I personally moderate a
group the first and the third Wednesday of every month
through Samaritan south coast here in Boston called Safe Place Place.
(26:03):
And we can put that in the show notes. It is a very specific kind
of group. It's for survivors of suicide loss and I moderate that.
And that's a virtual group. There are plenty of in person groups.
Seek out a trauma informed therapist. That is a big
deal. When you're talking about a therapist who understands trauma
versus one who doesn't. That is a game changer in terms of the kind
(26:25):
of conversations you're going to have and, and, and also
storytelling, just the act of being in places where you
can share your story. Maybe it's over social media, maybe
it's in a group, maybe it's over the phone, maybe it's
journaling. There are a million different ways that you can do that to help you
process your loss. Do that, seek those things out or
(26:47):
seek out a friend that you know has lost someone. If, if you have
someone like that in your life to have that kind of a connection with. Because
it's a next level conversation when you know that you're talking to somebody who has
experienced the same thing that you've experienced. And
I think the bottom line to all of this is that
connection helps us feel less alone
(27:10):
and it helps us to heal. It's
as simple as that. You know, grieving,
grieving at all sucks. Grieving after suicide
sucks. It's messy, it's traumatic,
but we can still heal from it. And
we do that when we stop healing by ourselves. And we,
(27:32):
we reach out to the, to the places and the people around. Us who are
there, you know, and life is short.
So make those conversations matter. Not just for you,
but for the person who's truly grieving. Approach it with kindness
and hold space. That's all we've got
(27:54):
and I hope it's enough. But we'll be back.
I guarantee it. We'll be back next week to do it all over again. We
sure will. I love you, boo. Love you. Bye bye.
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are.
(28:16):
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a. Trained crisis counselor like me will be
(28:40):
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and. Comprehensive directory of
mental health resources, tools and content at
thehelphub.co. Just remember that help is always
just. A call or a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the
meantime, keep surviving.
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at Schoser Talent and Wellness
Solutions. This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness,
grief, and loss and may be triggering for some listeners. So
please take care of your mental well being by pausing or skipping any
sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 for support. Well,
(00:23):
isn't that a pleasure to have you do an actual, real, live,
professional countdown. Nobody heard it. I was the only one that heard it and saw
it. But that was a pretty professional countdown that you did. That was exciting
because. Well, you don't want me to have it on the screen anymore. Yeah, that's
okay. So we're here again. I love that we just keep coming back
and keep coming back because there is a lifetime's worth of stuff to talk
(00:44):
about. Oh, wow. My pink lipstick is looking. That is a pink
lip gloss. It's pink. Yeah, yeah. You
can't. You can't see it if this is the audio version. It's glossy. It's very
glossy. Yeah. I feel very bougie right now, so.
Hey, G. Hey, girl. So this
week we're gonna go deep in a different way and
(01:06):
talk about the emotional toll
on suicide loss survivors. And
as someone who has lost three people that I
love to suicide over the course of my life,
so it's been a constant thing, constant type of grief.
I can promise you that it's not like
(01:30):
all the other kinds of grief. I'm not saying anything is better or
worse, because grief is grief, and there's nothing good about grief except
that it means we loved our person. But
it's hard. Grieving is incredibly draining,
and especially suicide grief, which I'm glad that we're having this
conversation to talk about. What makes it so
(01:53):
unique? I know you have lost people
that you love to suicide as well, so you know that
kind of grief personally firsthand.
And I just think it's important that we explore
that emotional and psychological aftermath. Because it's an aftermath. Because
you are blown to bits. I know I was.
(02:16):
And it takes a lot to pick. Up those pieces
and, like, a lot of it. For me, it was. The blame game
is like, why didn't I see the signs?
Why didn't they open up? Why. Why
are we just finding out about this now?
For me, that was the hardest part. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big part of it.
(02:38):
And when you kind of isolate
grief, generalized grief, like someone has
lost a grandparent because they were 94 years old and they drifted away,
or someone, God forbid, had Cancer or someone was killed
in an accident. Those are all deep, tragic,
sad losses. We grieve them, we mourn
(03:00):
them. They don't have some of the things
attached to them though that suicide has.
And I think it's important to name those. Like, as we move into
this conversation, I think it's important that we just like call those things out
right now. So when I say that
suicide is very nuanced. It's
(03:23):
nuanced because there is guilt that can
often be attached. What, what didn't
I see? What signs did I miss? Why didn't I
help sooner? Those, those things are
not generally present when someone dies of
a heart attack or someone dies of natural causes in another way.
(03:46):
There's, there's anger. Deep, deep
anger. In a lot of cases for the people who are left
behind, like, why did you leave me behind? Like, my mother could have been furious.
My father took his life when My mother
was 40 years old with a 10 year old child. My mom worked part time
and he was literally there one day, took his life and was
(04:10):
gone and left my mother with
a whole life to manage. She was the
breadwinner, she was my support system. She was raising a child alones.
It would not have been unusual for my mother
to have been furious. In my mom's case, she never was. But a
lot of people are. There is crazy confusion.
(04:34):
I know when we, we found out one of our closest friends took his life
just a little over four years ago. He was one of the people who. You'd
never see the sign. It's like you never had any idea. Like my dad, you
didn't know anything was wrong. And you're. I had a friend, one of my
best friends in the world called me up and said, is it
true that our friend took his life? I'm like, what are you talking about? Who,
(04:55):
which friend? Like, I, I wasn't, I didn't even know what he was talking about.
It's. Your brain is just. Nothing computes
then like you already talked about. There's shame. It
can be so shameful and, and the stigma too.
Because when you, when you go to try and tell people
that your father, your mother, your brother, your sister or friend,
(05:20):
that how they died. Like people just clam
up. They don't know how to talk about suicide.
Yes, I lost my father to suicide. Yes, I lost my
mother to suicide. In my case, I lost a cousin to
suicide. I also lost a classmate to suicide.
I lost a co worker to suicide. But talking about
(05:43):
it, there's still stigma around it. People don't want you
to talk about it. Listen, people, people take
their lives every day. Every
day. We've talked about this statistic. You know how I feel about this one particular
statistic that I've mentioned in at least one episode, maybe more,
but if you haven't heard me say it, I'll say it again.
(06:06):
Over 700,000 people a year take their life in this
world. And for every one human
who takes their own life, it's been determined
through all of the major organizations, all statistically,
that for every one person who dies by suicide,
135 people are affected by
(06:28):
that loss. And those people may include spouse,
partner, family, children, co workers,
friends, and that's the average. So, you know, the number goes up and
down, but it's 135 people on
average are impacted for every one suicide.
And yet, like you said, suicide is one of those
(06:50):
things. Nobody wants to talk about it, nobody
wants to confront it, nobody wants
to be affected by it. And yet, if you add those
two numbers together of how many people die by suicide and how many people are
affected, that's like 94 million people a year
are stuck in a place of
(07:12):
feeling all these feelings about something that happened and no one's talking
about it. And society
is not doing us any favors. Every time we don't talk about
adds to the stigma, it adds to the pain. And
we need to keep talking about it and we need to realize that there is
a true emotional toll for the
(07:35):
survivor. And as you said, it's different than somebody that
gets killed in a car accident, somebody that dies by cancer, somebody that
d natural causes. It is different. You are left
with so many questions in your head
that sometimes you don't, don't know how to articulate or
you're afraid to articulate because of how
(07:57):
somebody might perceive that. Because I'm telling you, the minute you,
you say the word suicide, people are like, oh, I can't talk about that. Gotta
go. And look, we
live in a culture that has created that
stereotype. It unfairly stigmatizes
the act of someone dying by suicide.
(08:18):
So this is how we're all hardwired. It's not because we've all
chosen to feel this way. It's because society made us feel this way.
It's because only recently the mental health community as a whole was
talking about it being okay to not be okay and that
we have resources and things are in the mainstream now, but for the better part
of history, it's never been that way. And you want to know something?
(08:41):
Interesting. And I'm not sure I ever mentioned this last
season. I know I haven't mentioned it this season so far.
So I started back into therapy. I was in therapy when I was
probably 21, 22. It was at that time
I took a gap year. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my
life. So I, to a therapist, I talked about my dad, but not in the
(09:02):
context of suicide. Because if you've never heard my story, I
didn't know that my father took his life for 35 years. So when I was
in therapy back in the day, it was just because I didn't know what I
wanted to do with my life. So I'm back in therapy as of a few
years ago, mainly to talk about my dad and, and all the
baggage there with his suicide. Do you know
that? And this may seem so dumb for people listening, I never
(09:26):
realized that I was a trauma survivor
until my therapist reminded me that I was a trauma
survivor. And I can tell you
that it took me by such
surprise. I just. Don't ask me why she said, you're a trauma survivor just
because you lost your dad as a child. Which of course
(09:49):
I never, I never saw that. I never knew that. And then she said
when you found out your dad took his life, you are a full
on trauma survivor. I didn't know that. That's what
suicide makes us when we are a survivor
of that kind of loss. It also
leads to ptsd. I don't know about you, but it leads to ptsd, it leads
(10:10):
to anxiety, it leads to depression, people withdraw, leads to
isolation. There is a big
psychological impact to this subject that
you and I talk about every week. And
that's why it's so important that we talk about it every week.
And I think of husband and wife teams where either
(10:32):
the husband has taken his life or the wife,
their whole social circle was built around
that marriage. And then having people asking,
you know, the spouse that survived. How did you not see the
signs? Like, don't ask those questions
(10:53):
like we're already grieving. Why couldn't you get them into therapy?
Okay, if you are anybody, like I was, we, we
mask up. We don't let on that anything is going on.
Be kind. It's a, it's a, it's a grief that
you can't get over because you're already beating yourself up. And then
(11:14):
you have your social group beating you up. You may
not realize that you're doing it, but you're beating them up. Yeah, that's a good
point. That's, that's a very important point. I remember
being a little kid, you know, I was raised by a, a single mom
from the time I was 10 years old. And I remember when my mom
was encouraged to go to this group. God, the funny things that you remember.
(11:37):
There was this group at the local community center and it was called Alone
by Choice or Chance. So it was people who were widowed or people who were
divorced and I don't know, my mom's friends encouraged her
to go and she was trying to just meet people
and, and I remember just
that being like the only thing that she was doing socially was going to that
(11:59):
group because people just,
they treat you differently even when they don't mean to treat you differently. You don't
get the invitations to do the things that you maybe did with your couple
friends and your life and your circle get very,
very small. And my mother has always been incredibly
outgoing, very social. Everything was always at our house,
(12:21):
all the holidays and events and
milestones. What if your business could
recruit smarter, onboard faster and support
employee wellness all at once? Welcome to shows or
talent and wellness solutions where people first strategy
meets real results. With over 45 years of combined
(12:42):
experience and 16 years specializing in UKG recruiting
and onboarding systems, we help small and mid sized businesses
thrive. From the first application to full integration,
we streamline your hiring process, reduce time to hire
and deliver seamless onboarding experiences. Our
proprietary tools like the recruiting and onboarding health check
(13:04):
and the employee mental Wellness Index turn insight into
impact at showser. We know that businesses are built on people.
That's why we integrate wellness into every solution. Promoting
mental health, reducing burnout and creating a culture where talent
stays and thrives. Whether you're navigating change,
implementing tech or engaging your team, we tailor
(13:26):
every solution. To fit your goals. Visit
chosersolutions.com today. Let's build a healthier,
more productive future one workplace at a time.
But I do remember that they had their couple
friends that they socialized with and that just, it's sad.
It just kind of faded away. And I, I think a lot of it's
(13:50):
because people just don't know how to handle it. And I,
my take on that is like handle the
death of someone by suicide the same way you would handle
any other type of death. Don't exclude them from your
social group because they still need connection.
(14:10):
Don't be whispering behind their back.
Be present there for them.
And it's not a, it's not a grief that just goes away. It
will stick with you for the rest of your life. I still have questions
like, why didn't I see the signs? Like, why?
Why didn't they come to. Why didn't they speak up? I know now from my
(14:34):
own personal experience why,
But I don't know. Just don't be a dick, okay? Because
that's a good one. I'm sorry, but like, that, that's how it is.
Like, just don't be a dick to them. Like, they are grieving,
they've lost their person. And
(14:54):
when you lose your person, a part of you
goes away, too. And we're, you know, we're trying to
regroup and find the things that we can trust and
deal with our own emotions. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And
I. I'm thinking of something that you just said, made me think about
the position that a lot of people who have survived
(15:17):
suicide loss, especially with a partner, especially with a spouse,
where you were a unit, you went and did all these things together.
I think the thing that people who are
engaging with those survivors are thinking is
let's get them out. I mean, a lot of cases, you know, some people back
(15:38):
away, other people are like, no, no, no, let's get them out and make them
social and introduce them and fill
their calendar. And while that's
incredibly kind and thoughtful in a lot of ways,
there's a big component of
isolation that really kind of in some ways needs to happen when someone
(16:01):
loses their partner because they have now got to
redefine themselves. They have an entirely new
identity. And you gotta give people
grace to. Because if they don't want to
go to the event, don't force them to go to the
event. Don't put them in a position of having to give you
(16:23):
an excuse or a reason or to fight with
you. Let them do what they need
to do at their own pace. Because let me tell
you something, if you're talking about grief
from the suicide loss perspective,
friends, that is a marathon and not a sprint.
(16:47):
Imagine a race that never, ever ends, okay? The
terrain just changes. That's what grief is,
especially grief attached to suicide loss.
Because let me tell you something. There are always things in
this world that you're going to see that you're going to hear, that you're going
to experience, that are going to trigger you. It could be five years out, it
(17:09):
could be 50 years out, and
you're in a pool of your own tears on the bathroom floor.
So the key here is be
gentle with the people. You've said it. You. You've already said it today.
Be gentle with the people who have lost someone and let them set
(17:29):
the pace. And that doesn't just go for people
that were partners. So that goes for people that were friends,
people that were co workers. Be kind, because
they're already dealing with it on their own terms
and they may not know how to, how to
(17:50):
handle it. And if they isolate for a little
bit, let them isolate. Maybe that is their way of dealing.
But if they do call, offer an ear
and don't judge. There's no room for
judging in the world of suicide. You
absolutely have zero idea what's going through somebody's head
(18:13):
when they get to that point. Yeah, that's such
an important point to make in any conversation
about suicide loss. Because people are very
quick to judge in life in general, not just with
this particular subject, but people
judge us for what we drive and where we live and
(18:37):
what we wear. And those things are bad enough.
When you start throwing your judgment around about
someone who has ended their life,
well, that is next level douchiness
that you just do not want to put out
into the world. Because there
(19:00):
is almost always a reason
that does not have anything to do with I
wanted to leave my people or I wanted to leave my life. There is a
deeper, darker reason. Suicide is the
byproduct of depression, which is a byproduct of
mental illness. So. So anybody who's going to make an
(19:22):
idiotic comment about someone
taking their life, having it be selfish, or why couldn't it be stopped?
You don't know unless you know what you're
talking about. So don't even make the comments.
So I have five things that are going to be helpful to say
(19:42):
and five things that you should avoid saying. Did you get that
off the help hub? No, I got it from another place.
Oh, good. But I'm just going to go ahead and say these and then we
can move on. If you're okay with that. I'm okay with anything you do.
Okay, so here's some helpful things you can say. I don't know what
to say, but I'm here for you. I can't imagine
(20:05):
what you're going through, but I care deeply. You don't have
to talk if you don't want to. I'm just here to sit with
you. Fourth is it's okay to
feel angry, confused, numb, or all of it.
And you're not alone. So those are like five
things you can say. All right, now these are the
(20:27):
ones that you shouldn't say because it's total dick move
on your part. There's they're in
a better place. Okay, that can really invalidate somebody's feelings.
Don't say that. That's. That one hurts. At least they're not
suffering anymore.
Everything happens for a reason. Oh, oh.
(20:50):
Did you see it coming? Were there signs? Okay, I'm going to tell
you, in my case, no and no.
And like, why would you even say that? But people do. But
people do. You've got to be strong, okay?
Grievers should not feel pressured just to perform strength,
okay? They went through something very, very, very difficult.
(21:14):
Be kind, be compassionate,
be understanding, be non
judgmental. That's what is helpful. Those
were. Those were incredibly helpful.
I live all these things. I. This is. This is my world. This is your
world. I couldn't have said it any better than you just said it. And that
(21:37):
was, I think, such a powerful takeaway that people can actually have. It's
so important. This is one of the things you and I try so hard to
do in every episode. We try to have the conversation. We try to put
the topic out there in the mainstream, but we're also trying really
hard to give you takeaways.
So if you're now in a situation where someone you know has lost
(21:59):
someone, maybe you'll rewind your brain a little bit
back to this conversation and remember a couple of the things G said to
say and not to say. And that will be helpful. So
yay for you doing that, because that was just so powerful.
Okay, can I give four ways that you can just show up for people?
Yes. Okay, so there's four ways you can just show
(22:22):
up. Just be there. You know, grief needs a witness, not
fixes. Just be there. Offer
specific help. Don't say, hey, if you need anything, let me know.
Instead, try. I'm headed to the store. Can I grab you some
groceries? Would it help if I walk your dog this week?
Do things like that. Respect their grief.
(22:44):
Not everybody wants to talk about it right away. Let
them guide that pace and remember the person
they lost. Say their name. You can say things like,
hey, I saw some sunflowers today and I thought of her smile.
Or I remember the time he made us all laugh until we cried.
(23:04):
Say their name. Just because they took their life
by suicide doesn't mean you can't still say their name.
It doesn't invalidate that life. Yes.
It's like how we shouldn't judge people by their worst
mistake. We also shouldn't judge people
(23:24):
by how their life ended
in the same way, you know.
And just stay curious, but not intrusive. Find out what
they need. Offer love. Don't pressure them to answer
questions that they may not be prepared or ever want to answer.
And listen more than you speak. Hold space.
(23:47):
You know, it's a very, very
gracious thing to just come right out and
ask someone who's lost someone, whether, whether it's to
suicide or to anything. Ask that person,
hey, would it help or would it hurt to talk about your
person right now? Yes, just that simple.
(24:11):
And I know in my case, and we talked about this in the last episode
where you and I were bawling our eyes out about how a friend of
mine on Father's Day shouted out a post to my father
specifically. And not many people in the world are left who knew my father
personally. And he is someone who did. And that was the
greatest gift in the world to have my
(24:33):
father be recognized in that way. And I know a lot of people feel that
way. So it's always gonna be a no harm, no foul situation
when you just ask if that's cool or not cool.
Yeah. And, you know, just be present and be human. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and one, one last thing before,
before we kind of wrap this conversation is that
(24:55):
we've talked a lot about ways in which we can have the
hard conversations, how to show up for your people.
If you don't have someone in your life,
if you don't have a community or a partner or a family or a
support system, you're still. You're still never alone.
There are always hotlines. The
(25:19):
one that comes to mind that we talk about in every episode that we record
is of course, the 988 crisis suicide hotline. That
is not just for people who are feeling suicidal. That is for
anyone who is experiencing any kind of
mental stress, strain, anxiety,
homelessness, abuse, loneliness, you
(25:40):
name it. Anything goes to call 988.
You do not have to be suicidal. But there, there are support
groups. If you don't have your own personal support group,
they're virtual. I know I personally moderate a
group the first and the third Wednesday of every month
through Samaritan south coast here in Boston called Safe Place Place.
(26:03):
And we can put that in the show notes. It is a very specific kind
of group. It's for survivors of suicide loss and I moderate that.
And that's a virtual group. There are plenty of in person groups.
Seek out a trauma informed therapist. That is a big
deal. When you're talking about a therapist who understands trauma
versus one who doesn't. That is a game changer in terms of the kind
(26:25):
of conversations you're going to have and, and, and also
storytelling, just the act of being in places where you
can share your story. Maybe it's over social media, maybe
it's in a group, maybe it's over the phone, maybe it's
journaling. There are a million different ways that you can do that to help you
process your loss. Do that, seek those things out or
(26:47):
seek out a friend that you know has lost someone. If, if you have
someone like that in your life to have that kind of a connection with. Because
it's a next level conversation when you know that you're talking to somebody who has
experienced the same thing that you've experienced. And
I think the bottom line to all of this is that
connection helps us feel less alone
(27:10):
and it helps us to heal. It's
as simple as that. You know, grieving,
grieving at all sucks. Grieving after suicide
sucks. It's messy, it's traumatic,
but we can still heal from it. And
we do that when we stop healing by ourselves. And we,
(27:32):
we reach out to the, to the places and the people around. Us who are
there, you know, and life is short.
So make those conversations matter. Not just for you,
but for the person who's truly grieving. Approach it with kindness
and hold space. That's all we've got
(27:54):
and I hope it's enough. But we'll be back.
I guarantee it. We'll be back next week to do it all over again. We
sure will. I love you, boo. Love you. Bye bye.
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are.
(28:16):
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a. Trained crisis counselor like me will be
(28:40):
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and. Comprehensive directory of
mental health resources, tools and content at
thehelphub.co. Just remember that help is always
just. A call or a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the
meantime, keep surviving.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.