July 16, 2025 • 30 mins
In this deeply moving episode, Lisa and Gretchen talk candidly about how milestone days like birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays impact those living with grief, especially suicide loss survivors. Through laughter, tears, and lived experience, they offer real-life tools, comfort, and hope for navigating the pain of remembrance while keeping the love alive.
🎥 Watch the Video Podcast on YouTube: A video version of this episode is available here: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎙️ Episode Sponsored by TheHelpHUB.co This episode is proudly brought to you by TheHelpHUB.co Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just… alone? You're not. Welcome to TheHelpHUB—your online destination for mental health resources, content, and tools tailored to your personal needs. With 16+ curated categories, downloadable tools, and community-led support, you’ll find personalized help right when you need it. Visit: https://www.thehelphub.co 💙 Because your mental well-being matters. 💙
📝 Episode Summary: Lisa opens up about losing her father to suicide 47 years ago and how milestone days—like birthdays, Father’s Day, and August 1st (his death anniversary)—still hit hard. Gretchen shares her own grief experiences, including how she transformed Valentine’s Day, the anniversary of her mother’s funeral, into a new chapter through podcasting. Together, they hold space for listeners navigating their own grief, emphasizing that there is no “right” way to mourn. Whether you're years into your grief or fresh in the pain, this episode is for you.
💡 Lessons Learned:
- Grief doesn’t have an expiration date—it evolves.
- You’re allowed to feel joy, sadness, anger, or all three at once.
- Rituals can offer comfort and connection to loved ones lost.
- Talking to someone—friends, family, a therapist, or a warmline—can ease the weight.
- Grieving is not weakness; it’s love in motion.
📖 Chapters:
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Introduction 01:00 – Lisa’s Birthday & Father’s Day Reflections 02:30 – Gretchen's Story: Valentine’s Day & Her Mother’s Passing 04:00 – Building Relationships with Lost Loved Ones 06:00 – The Power of Rituals and Letters 08:00 – Suicide Attempt Reflections & Christmas Grief 09:00 – Navigating Special Occasions Alone 11:00 – There's No Wrong Way to Grieve 14:00 – Journaling & Safe Spaces 16:00 – Lisa on Loneliness & Community Support 18:30 – The Importance of Warm Lines 20:00 – Therapy as Ongoing Support 22:00 – Grief as a Sign of Love 23:00 – Book Recommendation: Grief Is Love by Marisa Renee Lee 26:00 – A Friend’s Tribute: Honoring the Memory of Lisa’s Dad 29:00 – Remembering with Love & Living the Legacy 30:00 – Final Thoughts & Encouragement
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support 🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website: https://thesurvivors.net/ 🔹 The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks: https://www.thehelphub.co/ 🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – Mental wellness coaching & support: https://schosersolutions.com/ 🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads – A raw, award-winning mental health podcast: https://goesoninourheads.net/
📲 Follow & Connect With Us 📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast 🎥 YouTube: <
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub. This
podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be
triggering for some listeners. So please take care of your mental well being
by pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if
you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
(00:22):
We're back and it's an interesting
time that we're having this conversation because
yesterday was my birthday. And happy
birthday to you. Thank you. Happy birthday to you.
Thank you. I appreciate that. So
it's a bittersweet day for me, just
(00:45):
like Father's Day, which was last month, and
just like August 1st will be for me, as
it is every year and has been for the last
47 years. The reason why I'm talking about these
milestones is because you and I decided that we were going to talk
about grief during really difficult
(01:08):
milestones, especially suicide grief, which
is such a unique and nuanced kind
of grief. And I really
missed my dad yesterday. It's been over four
decades for me since my dad died. And I would
almost say with a lot of certainty that
(01:30):
yesterday and Father's Day this year
hit me harder than ever in that way.
And August 1st is the anniversary when I lost my father in
1978. And I'm aware that that day is
only a couple of weeks away and it's already starting to bubble up in my
heart a little bit. So since I've had so many
(01:54):
of these days lately, and I know you've had them too,
we just want to bring it here. Like, we're bringing all of this stuff here
to talk about these things, because these are not just happening
to me and they're not just happening to you. They're happening to tens of millions
of people around the world who have lost people to suicide, who have
to go through the first Christmases and Hanukkahs and birthdays
(02:16):
and death anniversaries and all that. And it
sucks. It sucks. It does suck.
And like, for me, I, I, I'm not,
I haven't had a lot of people in my, my life
die by suicide, but I've had very personal deaths
that affect me. And like, we'll take my mom,
(02:39):
for example. You know, we buried my mom in
on Valentine's Day, 1997. And the
whole reason we launched a podcast on February
14, 2023, was to change the trajectory
of that day because I wanted to take all the sadness
and turn it into something good. And you're talking about your.
(03:01):
Because you have another podcast for People who are listening, who don't know. G is
also the co host of the award winning podcast Shit
that Goes on in Our Head. So that's the podcast she's talking about. So that's
why we decided to do that. But
Mother's Day, her birthday, all the days,
they're just hard. And it doesn't matter if it happened yesterday,
(03:23):
and in my case it was in 1997. Like, you still carry
that with you. You carry those memories. And
for, you know, people that have experienced suicide, loss, it's,
it's so hard. Like, like, you know, the
days approaching, you're like, this is going to be like that same sadness
that keeps creeping up year after year after year.
(03:47):
And for me, I create rituals, I create a safe
space. Like I, for me, it's like my,
my time alone with them, even though they're not physically here,
it's my time to be with them. Yeah,
I'm glad you just said that that way because it just made me think of
something that I learned
(04:09):
more recently than not. I learned that
I already said that my father's been gone. It will be,
it will be 47 years in August. I
still create a relationship with my father. I'm
still growing a relationship with my father. And
(04:30):
I think maybe that might sound strange to some people listening. Your
person is physically gone. You can't have conversations. Yes, you
can. You can't engage
with them in the ways that you did. True. But you can engage with them
in other ways. You can do things in their memory. You can do things in,
in honor of them. You can do the things that they loved. You
(04:52):
can have one sided conversations. I think I
mentioned way back in season one, in one of the early
episodes that my therapist gave me this amazing
suggestion. I've always journaled my whole life
and she said, have you ever written your dad a letter? Never occurred
to me. Never occurred to me in a million years to write my father a
(05:14):
letter. It was the most cathartic thing to write a letter
to my father. And it
exposes things, it fleshes things out in a way when you do
it in a random stream of consciousness sort of way. So you're always growing those
random relationships and it makes
these milestones that are hard just a tiny bit less
(05:37):
hard in some ways. Yeah. For me,
like what I did for my mom is a lot like what
you did. I wrote my mom a letter like, she's not here.
But it was super cathartic. And for
when I know that the date is coming up, I kind of plan
okay, you have to. I'm like, how. How am I going to deal with
(06:00):
this? Because it's not just the day. It's like, where am I mentally
at that time? Do I have a lot of stress? Am
I super depressed? I so lean in on my therapist
because, number one, I pay them money to make me feel better.
That's kind of like a. Like a prostitute.
(06:23):
I'm just saying. Just saying. But, you know, the. The
dates hit hard, and I lean in on my wife.
I lean in on my friends that they all know, because, you
know, it's been over 20 years that certain days just
hit me hard, harder than the normal. And
(06:43):
I give my. Myself permission to grieve. Like, I miss.
I miss my person. Always grieving. We never stop. We never
stop. And they say that the pains, it's
not as painful like five years out. Okay? That's a big fat
lie. Okay? Because it's just different. It's just. It's a
different kind of pain. It's like an emptiness. But fill that
(07:05):
emptiness with things that bring you joy
or would have brought both of you joy if you were doing it together. Like,
let's say you had, like, a standing date of.
Let's go to the zoo. Okay, Go to the zoo by yourself. Or
maybe take your significant other with you or a friend.
(07:26):
Or maybe it was making homemade pasta. Okay,
make that homemade pasta. But as you're doing it, you can think about
the things in your life that still hold close to your heart
that made you love that person so much.
And for those of us that have attempted suicide,
(07:47):
we still have that same type of grief. For me, it's
approaching the day that I attempted, which will always
be Christmas Day. But, like, in the
sense, you know, like last year and this year,
I approached it with, I'm still here.
I get to live. And I'm grateful every single day because of a call
(08:10):
that I made so that I could be here to see other
milestones. You know, it's. It's taking care of my
heart, my heart and my soul. And, you know, knowing
that I'm a good person, you know, I just went through some crap,
but I celebrate those. Wins, and we have to. But
let's. Let's drill down for the people who are listening to this, who have
(08:33):
lost someone, who are approaching a really, really rough date or rough
occasion. Maybe a child is graduating
from high school or college and a spouse or a partner or
grandparent isn't there. Or maybe you're
getting married and one of your parents isn't There. I mean, there.
I've gone through every single one of these things.
(08:56):
Why are they hard? We need to first understand, like, why
are they hard? Let's acknowledge that, say it out in the air, and
then figure out what we can do to navigate
them so they're re triggering our grief is what it is.
It doesn't matter if It's a year, two years, 10 years,
(09:16):
bringing up those memories. Those things
just kind of put a spotlight on the intense
sense of absence that we have. I know for a fact
I don't remember very many things, like Thanksgivings with my dad. And Thanksgiving has
always been my favorite holiday of all time. And for
20 years, I hosted at home, at our house, and it was
(09:40):
always my favorite holiday in the world. I
do remember a couple of Thanksgivings with my dad. And so
I look around my table and I know my dad's
not there. Could have a house full. We usually have, like, you know, 20,
21 people. I know my dad's not there. I know that there's
a symbolically empty chair there. And. And that's.
(10:03):
That's really hard, you know, And I know that a lot of people deal
with that in so many different ways. And I think
that we have to just acknowledge, like, yeah, my dad's not here,
and it fucking sucks, and I hate that. And
he's missed. He's missed so many of these. And what you can say
to yourself is, this day is hard, and I miss him. And that's okay. You
(10:26):
can. You can be silent. You can have laughter. There's
no wrong way to grieve. Yes. Yes. I'm so. Oh,
you're so. Like, oh, I could just squeeze you right now. That is so
important. Say it again. There's no wrong way to grieve.
Yes. Nugget, nugget.
That was. That was great. It's important. It's true. I mean, you're giggling, but
(10:48):
I'm saying that in all seriousness, that there
isn't a right or wrong way to grieve. Like, there
have absolutely been years. And I don't even know if my family knows this.
Since I was hosting, it was very easy for me to always get up from
the table and be like, oh, gotta go baste the turkey. Oh, gotta go check
the pie. Oh. And I would leave everybody in the dining room, and I
(11:08):
would walk into the kitchen, and I would be sad that maybe my
Grandma Lil wasn't there, or I would be sad that my Aunt Harriet wasn't there
or my dad wasn't there, and I would Cry.
I would just. I would stand there basting the turkey like an idiot,
crying. And then I would wipe my eyes and I would walk back into the
room, and nobody would know what I just did. That's okay. And
(11:30):
if you break down at the table, that's okay, too.
I've done that before. You know, it's all about
acknowledgement and letting yourself have
a little grace and permission to feel it. And, you
know, you don't have to explain yourself to
anybody. You absolutely do not. Like, if you have
(11:52):
a breakdown, have that breakdown. We're all human.
We are not robots. We are emotional creatures.
And those days are hard. I can even say
for the first Christmas without my mom. Christmas was my mom's favorite
holiday. It was so hard. But
as I've grown over the years, I do
(12:15):
things a little differently now. I
planned. I planned stuff that would have been fun,
that. That my mom would have liked to do. I love that. And I
have, you know, I have my person, I have my wife. And she
makes sure, like, just a
shout out to my wife because she's amazing. She's completely my
(12:37):
rock. Make sure that I'm okay. Like, if you don't
have that in your life, find that per. Find your
person, find your friend. Find somebody to hang out with during that.
On that day. Maybe somebody you just text or you're calling them on the
phone, talk it out. But you can also do. The other thing
I've done is I've been known to, like, cancel everything and just
(12:59):
hang out in bed for the day. That's okay, too. Like, you. You are
allowed to do that. You're allowed to say, actually,
thank you so much for that invite to that party or that thing or
that event, but I'm going to. I'm going to take a pass.
You don't have to give a reason. You don't have to go. You don't have
to put yourself in that position. So many people, we all feel like people pleaser.
(13:21):
People pleaser. Have to do all the things. No, you don't.
No, you don't. As long as you're showing up for yourself,
that's all that matters. That is showing up for yourself. Yeah. Like, you don't have
to show up for anybody else. Show up for you. Like, do the things
that make you happy. Like, for me, that's putting on my VR
headset and pretending I'm someplace else. Or pulling out my
(13:44):
favorite picture of my mom,
remembering the things that she taught me. I'll cook a meal. That
was one of her favorite meals. I will whip up my mom's
meatloaf and I'll eat the shit out of that and
not even care. And it's those little
things. And my wife will ask me, she's like, what are you
(14:08):
feeling today? And I tell her,
honestly, like, I either feel good, bad or sad. It could
be all together at the same time. And if I
can't name what the feeling is, she pretty much see it on my
face. I don't hide that well. I don't
hide sadness well. I don't either. I don't either. But I also, like,
(14:30):
started doing some journaling. Journaling on that, like with my
mom's death and my dad's death and like, things that I wish
that they had been around to see. And
maybe in the ethers of the world that they are getting those
messages. And I never do it alone
anymore. I don't. I always make sure that I have, like, my safe
(14:52):
space. My friends, my family, my wife, my journal.
And if I'm feeling super sad, I pick up the phone and
I call. People struggling with your mental health?
Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well,
you're not. Welcome to the Help Hub, your online destination
for mental health resources, content and tools to help you
(15:15):
navigate whatever mental health challenges you are facing in the moment.
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your unique needs and community, with over 16 different
categories to find exactly the kind of personalized help you need
when you need it most. Because even though we all deal with many of
the same challenges, we don't always experience those challenges the same
(15:37):
way. So whether you're looking for crisis support,
downloadable resources, or an extensive archive of mental health
related articles and videos, we've got you. From episodes of the
Survivors podcast for suicide loss survivors and lived
experience blogs to interactive tools and professional connections,
the Help Hub meets you where you are and helps you move forward with
(16:00):
strength and support. Remember, you don't have to do this
alone. Visit thehelphub.co today.
Yeah, and that's so important. And this is. I'm glad that you said that and
that we're talking about this part of grieving during milestones,
because there is a whole world out there. We're
(16:23):
in the midst of a loneliness epidemic
and there's a whole world of people out there who don't
have the wide community of
people that maybe you have or that I have. You know, I'm very
fortunate. My husband and I work in the same
place. We work from home. He's upstairs right now. I'm in My office,
(16:46):
my kids. One of them is close by. I talk to my other daughter who
lives abroad every day. My mother and I communicate every
day. I have an incredibly close family and circle of friends. A
lot of people do not have that. They don't have a partner, they
don't have a spouse, they don't have a friend circle. Maybe they don't
work. So they don't have that, that community outlet, that workplace
(17:08):
outlet. And they don't have kids. So what do
they do? Because that must be an incredibly
isolating and lonely feeling. And what I'll tell you, if you're one of
those people that I just described and you're out there listening, going, I
don't have anybody. Yes, you do. You have
anybody who is on the other end of the 988
(17:30):
suicide and crisis hotline. And there are also
warm lines. Maybe you're not suicidal.
Maybe you're not in a desperate headspace.
Maybe you're not in an abusive relationship or there's something
that you're navigating that's life threatening, but maybe you
just need to talk to a human and hear another human's
(17:53):
voice. Maybe you call 988 or maybe you
call some warm lines and you and I can put
some numbers for some warm lines in our show notes
this week to ensure that people have those. And for those who don't know what
a warm line is, use your context clues, friends. A
hotline means, like, it's hot. Like the problem is,
(18:14):
is hot on fire needs to be addressed right now. Dangerous,
potentially a warm line. Just what it sounds like.
Maybe somebody needs a little support. They need a little something. Maybe it's not life
threatening or imminent, but they just need someone. So there are warm lines.
You're never alone is the point that I'm trying to make.
(18:34):
100%. You know, and other things you can do is you can
text a trust a friend, you can say, hey, this start, this day is
hard. I just need to say hi. You know, I,
that I've done that. A bazillion times, see each other literally every
morning. Every morning. And, you know, and I talk to Dirty
Skittles, you know, from my other podcast, every
(18:57):
morning. And you, you all know when I'm not
okay, because like I said, you know, now that I've learned how
to be a whole person and
show my feelings, like, you can see it in my face. You can
hear my voice. So proud of you. But I also,
oh, thank you. But, you know, also remember that
(19:19):
therapy is not just for the early stages therapy is
ongoing. So if you feel like you're. It's going to be a really super
hard day, contact your therapist.
Yep. I have an appointment this afternoon. I can't wait. I haven't seen her for
three weeks because I was traveling so much, and I cannot
wait. It's like maintenance. You know, we go to the dentist, go to
(19:41):
the doctor, go to the chiropractor. No different.
To maintain your mental health and wellness. I can't wait
to sit and catch. Up with her and, you know,
recognize that your grief is not a weakness. It's a sign of
deep love. We lost somebody that
we loved dearly. We may not have under. We
(20:04):
may not understand why they're not here any longer. We may not understand
what was going through their mind, but
it's okay to grieve it 100%.
Like, it's necessary. It's necessary. Like, you know,
tears are cathartic.
You know, you can also be angry, and that's okay, too.
(20:27):
But don't let that anger take over everything else that you're doing
in your life. Sit with it. You can be
angry, be angry until you don't feel angry anymore. Right. And,
you know, there's no expiration date on grief. No. There's that next
breath, that next choice, and that next moment of remembering.
And every time we remember them, it can spark a little
(20:49):
joy in our heart. When I remember my mom, I
remember the good things, and I remember a lot of the bad things. But on
those certain milestone dates, I remember the
things that brought me joy. And I'll sit there and not
cry. Life's a balance. Life's a balance. We have to remember all the good with
the bad. Some days I cry. Some days I laugh.
(21:12):
Some days I do both. But, you know, there's no. There's no
timeline. And, like, don't let people, like, tell you that
to just get over it, because you just don't get over it. I'm. And if
you're saying that to people, please stop. Well, if you think
about grief in the way that I have learned to think about grief, I
don't want to stop grieving for my dad or I'm just talking about the
(21:34):
people who I've lost to suicide. My dad, my cousin, and one of
my closest friends. But I have never even really talked at all
about, you know, my grandmothers, who. My. One of my grandmothers was
my best friend in the world. Lost. My grandmothers, lost aunts, lost
uncles, lost cousins, lost friends. I mean, I've been accompanied by Grief
my whole life. I don't want to ever stop
(21:57):
grieving. And I think Stephen Colbert was one of the ones who said something very
profound. I wish I could remember the quote exactly, but he
mentioned something about how, like, it's a. It's a privilege
to be able to grieve for the people we love. And that.
That makes me think of someone else who is worth a shout out in
this particular conversation. Have I ever told you
(22:20):
my favorite book on grief? Have I ever shared that
with you? No. There is a woman. She's an author. Her
name is Marissa Renee Lee. I've been very fortunate to
have a couple of. Of DM
conversations with her privately. She is the author of my
favorite book on grief called Grief is Love.
(22:43):
And it is the most transformative book on grief I've ever
read. I could easily talk 45 minutes about this book and why
I love it and why it was so transformative, but I will make sure that
it's in the show notes. Grief is Love by Marissa
Renee Lee. And again, she's not a therapist, she's not a clinician, which
is maybe part of why it resonated with me so much, because she is this
(23:05):
regular human who was grieving loss. And it was just her
perspective on that loss. And a lot of it centered around
the fact that as hard and painful and ugly and messy
as grief is like, I actually wouldn't trade it because
it shows how much I love my people, and I want that.
It's a connector. It's a bridge to our people. So I
(23:28):
don't want to leave that behind or lose that. You just learn to
integrate it into your life and into your world. And then eventually, you know, it's
like scales, like anyone who's just listening, I'm doing with my
hands, like, tipping the scales. And eventually
joy and grief, kind of, there's a balance there, and you
learn to live with both of them. But her book, if you have not read
(23:49):
it, go get it and read it. It is
profound. And the takeaway is
be gentle with yourself. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to the people
you know, who have lost people because you.
It's the hardest thing we go through in life. It is.
(24:10):
And making sure that when
somebody does reach out to you, that you hold space for them.
And a lot of times, what I mean by holding space is
just give us time to talk. Like, listen with your
ears, not with your mouth. We need an opinion.
We'll kind of clue you in on that. But just listen to
(24:34):
us and you'll Hear
our love come out in our voices
and be thankful
that they reached out to you. Honor their
grief and just be
a good friend. That, to me is like the perfect thing
(24:56):
for anybody is just honor that space that
we're holding with you for right in that very moment. Because holding
space is not that complicated. It's just being there.
It's just showing up. It's being a place that can
receive what a person needs to share, whatever
that might be. You know, we can share things in a journal. You can talk
(25:18):
to yourself in the mirror, but when you're expressing
the innermost feelings of love or sadness or joy
that's in your heart to an actual human, whether it's over over
phone or whether it's like this through a screen, or whether it's in person,
it's next level, it's different. There is just.
(25:39):
There's a tangibleness that's not even a word, but I
made it a word today. There's a tangibleness in it, and
it matters. It means something different. I don't know about you,
but. But I can say from my own experience
and the conversations that I've had with so many people over the years who have
lost people, especially friends, it is
(26:01):
profoundly important to me
when people mention my father
profoundly on Father's Day this year. I just want to share this one thing.
I know we're coming sort of toward the end of this conversation, but I want
to share something that happened. And this is a shout out to my friend Mike
and you know who you are. This is an old, old, old childhood
(26:22):
friend. I don't have a lot of people left in the world
who knew my father. And that, like, just immediately got me so choked
up. But it's the truth. Like, obviously my mother, my husband never knew
my father, my kids. I obviously have some family members
who, aunts and uncles, but most everyone
is gone who knew my father. This
(26:45):
friend of mine, who I haven't seen him in decades, but we've recently, in
the last several years, gotten more in touch over social media.
He lives in D.C. he and his brother
and his father and my father and I used to mountain
climb together. My father was a huge mountaineer, and my father
got his father into mountain
(27:07):
climbing and peak bagging and up in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. And we
all grew up together, he and I and his brother, climbing mountains together.
And because of that, he developed this incredible, insatiable love of
being outdoors and climbing mountains. And it was because of my father.
So when I made the post I made on Father's Day to my husband and
my stepdad and my father in law and my dad. He
(27:30):
immediately wrote this message and he wrote it on Facebook, like on my wall.
And this is what made the most impact on me. He said, I
miss your dad. My dad's name was Jim. He says, I miss Jimmy
Eigner. And he said, if it were not for your father,
he was the one who brought me and my father and
(27:50):
my brother into this world, this new world that has become such a
big part of our world that we have now gifted to our children. And it
was the most beautiful post
about my dad from someone who knew my dad and spent time with my dad
and knew what he was in the world. And. And he told me in
this post that his daughter is now
(28:12):
working for the Appalachian Mountain Club,
carrying on the tradition that my father gave to
her grandfather who gave to her father. It was just this whole thing, and I'm
bawling and I'm sending screenshots to my mother and I'm reaching out to him.
I told my friend Mike in a message
that that was such a gift, Mike, I want you to hear it with my
(28:35):
own voice right now. That was like, now I'm gonna just fully cry. And I
don't even care because sometimes we cry. That was the greatest gift
anyone has given me in the longest time to just say that about my dad
out into the world. And that's the point. I need to stop talking now
because I'm crying. But you know what? That's okay, too.
Because every year when I post about my mom, all my
(28:57):
friends from high school, even elementary school, you know, my
mom was. She was central to our community,
and she was a good person. And they
all helped me remember why we all love
my mom so much and that it's okay to grieve.
And that even though they're not here anymore,
(29:20):
they're still in our hearts. And they taught us
amazing things that we get to carry on for the rest of our
lives, and we get to share with other people those
gifts. And your dad is always going to be with you,
no matter if he's here physically or not. And your mom is always
going to. Be with you 100%. Like, we carry
(29:42):
on those traditions that we
shared with them. And you know what? Life is good.
Life is good. And grief, my friends, is
love. Grief is love. Amen.
Amen. All right, Boo. I love you. I love you, G. Hey,
you want to do this again next week? Yeah, sure. All right, let's do it.
(30:03):
Okay. See you next week. Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen, and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
(30:27):
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory
of mental health resources, tools and content at thehelphub.
Co. Just remember that help is always just a call or
(30:50):
a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the meantime, keep
surviving.
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub. This
podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be
triggering for some listeners. So please take care of your mental well being
by pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if
you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
(00:22):
We're back and it's an interesting
time that we're having this conversation because
yesterday was my birthday. And happy
birthday to you. Thank you. Happy birthday to you.
Thank you. I appreciate that. So
it's a bittersweet day for me, just
(00:45):
like Father's Day, which was last month, and
just like August 1st will be for me, as
it is every year and has been for the last
47 years. The reason why I'm talking about these
milestones is because you and I decided that we were going to talk
about grief during really difficult
(01:08):
milestones, especially suicide grief, which
is such a unique and nuanced kind
of grief. And I really
missed my dad yesterday. It's been over four
decades for me since my dad died. And I would
almost say with a lot of certainty that
(01:30):
yesterday and Father's Day this year
hit me harder than ever in that way.
And August 1st is the anniversary when I lost my father in
1978. And I'm aware that that day is
only a couple of weeks away and it's already starting to bubble up in my
heart a little bit. So since I've had so many
(01:54):
of these days lately, and I know you've had them too,
we just want to bring it here. Like, we're bringing all of this stuff here
to talk about these things, because these are not just happening
to me and they're not just happening to you. They're happening to tens of millions
of people around the world who have lost people to suicide, who have
to go through the first Christmases and Hanukkahs and birthdays
(02:16):
and death anniversaries and all that. And it
sucks. It sucks. It does suck.
And like, for me, I, I, I'm not,
I haven't had a lot of people in my, my life
die by suicide, but I've had very personal deaths
that affect me. And like, we'll take my mom,
(02:39):
for example. You know, we buried my mom in
on Valentine's Day, 1997. And the
whole reason we launched a podcast on February
14, 2023, was to change the trajectory
of that day because I wanted to take all the sadness
and turn it into something good. And you're talking about your.
(03:01):
Because you have another podcast for People who are listening, who don't know. G is
also the co host of the award winning podcast Shit
that Goes on in Our Head. So that's the podcast she's talking about. So that's
why we decided to do that. But
Mother's Day, her birthday, all the days,
they're just hard. And it doesn't matter if it happened yesterday,
(03:23):
and in my case it was in 1997. Like, you still carry
that with you. You carry those memories. And
for, you know, people that have experienced suicide, loss, it's,
it's so hard. Like, like, you know, the
days approaching, you're like, this is going to be like that same sadness
that keeps creeping up year after year after year.
(03:47):
And for me, I create rituals, I create a safe
space. Like I, for me, it's like my,
my time alone with them, even though they're not physically here,
it's my time to be with them. Yeah,
I'm glad you just said that that way because it just made me think of
something that I learned
(04:09):
more recently than not. I learned that
I already said that my father's been gone. It will be,
it will be 47 years in August. I
still create a relationship with my father. I'm
still growing a relationship with my father. And
(04:30):
I think maybe that might sound strange to some people listening. Your
person is physically gone. You can't have conversations. Yes, you
can. You can't engage
with them in the ways that you did. True. But you can engage with them
in other ways. You can do things in their memory. You can do things in,
in honor of them. You can do the things that they loved. You
(04:52):
can have one sided conversations. I think I
mentioned way back in season one, in one of the early
episodes that my therapist gave me this amazing
suggestion. I've always journaled my whole life
and she said, have you ever written your dad a letter? Never occurred
to me. Never occurred to me in a million years to write my father a
(05:14):
letter. It was the most cathartic thing to write a letter
to my father. And it
exposes things, it fleshes things out in a way when you do
it in a random stream of consciousness sort of way. So you're always growing those
random relationships and it makes
these milestones that are hard just a tiny bit less
(05:37):
hard in some ways. Yeah. For me,
like what I did for my mom is a lot like what
you did. I wrote my mom a letter like, she's not here.
But it was super cathartic. And for
when I know that the date is coming up, I kind of plan
okay, you have to. I'm like, how. How am I going to deal with
(06:00):
this? Because it's not just the day. It's like, where am I mentally
at that time? Do I have a lot of stress? Am
I super depressed? I so lean in on my therapist
because, number one, I pay them money to make me feel better.
That's kind of like a. Like a prostitute.
(06:23):
I'm just saying. Just saying. But, you know, the. The
dates hit hard, and I lean in on my wife.
I lean in on my friends that they all know, because, you
know, it's been over 20 years that certain days just
hit me hard, harder than the normal. And
(06:43):
I give my. Myself permission to grieve. Like, I miss.
I miss my person. Always grieving. We never stop. We never
stop. And they say that the pains, it's
not as painful like five years out. Okay? That's a big fat
lie. Okay? Because it's just different. It's just. It's a
different kind of pain. It's like an emptiness. But fill that
(07:05):
emptiness with things that bring you joy
or would have brought both of you joy if you were doing it together. Like,
let's say you had, like, a standing date of.
Let's go to the zoo. Okay, Go to the zoo by yourself. Or
maybe take your significant other with you or a friend.
(07:26):
Or maybe it was making homemade pasta. Okay,
make that homemade pasta. But as you're doing it, you can think about
the things in your life that still hold close to your heart
that made you love that person so much.
And for those of us that have attempted suicide,
(07:47):
we still have that same type of grief. For me, it's
approaching the day that I attempted, which will always
be Christmas Day. But, like, in the
sense, you know, like last year and this year,
I approached it with, I'm still here.
I get to live. And I'm grateful every single day because of a call
(08:10):
that I made so that I could be here to see other
milestones. You know, it's. It's taking care of my
heart, my heart and my soul. And, you know, knowing
that I'm a good person, you know, I just went through some crap,
but I celebrate those. Wins, and we have to. But
let's. Let's drill down for the people who are listening to this, who have
(08:33):
lost someone, who are approaching a really, really rough date or rough
occasion. Maybe a child is graduating
from high school or college and a spouse or a partner or
grandparent isn't there. Or maybe you're
getting married and one of your parents isn't There. I mean, there.
I've gone through every single one of these things.
(08:56):
Why are they hard? We need to first understand, like, why
are they hard? Let's acknowledge that, say it out in the air, and
then figure out what we can do to navigate
them so they're re triggering our grief is what it is.
It doesn't matter if It's a year, two years, 10 years,
(09:16):
bringing up those memories. Those things
just kind of put a spotlight on the intense
sense of absence that we have. I know for a fact
I don't remember very many things, like Thanksgivings with my dad. And Thanksgiving has
always been my favorite holiday of all time. And for
20 years, I hosted at home, at our house, and it was
(09:40):
always my favorite holiday in the world. I
do remember a couple of Thanksgivings with my dad. And so
I look around my table and I know my dad's
not there. Could have a house full. We usually have, like, you know, 20,
21 people. I know my dad's not there. I know that there's
a symbolically empty chair there. And. And that's.
(10:03):
That's really hard, you know, And I know that a lot of people deal
with that in so many different ways. And I think
that we have to just acknowledge, like, yeah, my dad's not here,
and it fucking sucks, and I hate that. And
he's missed. He's missed so many of these. And what you can say
to yourself is, this day is hard, and I miss him. And that's okay. You
(10:26):
can. You can be silent. You can have laughter. There's
no wrong way to grieve. Yes. Yes. I'm so. Oh,
you're so. Like, oh, I could just squeeze you right now. That is so
important. Say it again. There's no wrong way to grieve.
Yes. Nugget, nugget.
That was. That was great. It's important. It's true. I mean, you're giggling, but
(10:48):
I'm saying that in all seriousness, that there
isn't a right or wrong way to grieve. Like, there
have absolutely been years. And I don't even know if my family knows this.
Since I was hosting, it was very easy for me to always get up from
the table and be like, oh, gotta go baste the turkey. Oh, gotta go check
the pie. Oh. And I would leave everybody in the dining room, and I
(11:08):
would walk into the kitchen, and I would be sad that maybe my
Grandma Lil wasn't there, or I would be sad that my Aunt Harriet wasn't there
or my dad wasn't there, and I would Cry.
I would just. I would stand there basting the turkey like an idiot,
crying. And then I would wipe my eyes and I would walk back into the
room, and nobody would know what I just did. That's okay. And
(11:30):
if you break down at the table, that's okay, too.
I've done that before. You know, it's all about
acknowledgement and letting yourself have
a little grace and permission to feel it. And, you
know, you don't have to explain yourself to
anybody. You absolutely do not. Like, if you have
(11:52):
a breakdown, have that breakdown. We're all human.
We are not robots. We are emotional creatures.
And those days are hard. I can even say
for the first Christmas without my mom. Christmas was my mom's favorite
holiday. It was so hard. But
as I've grown over the years, I do
(12:15):
things a little differently now. I
planned. I planned stuff that would have been fun,
that. That my mom would have liked to do. I love that. And I
have, you know, I have my person, I have my wife. And she
makes sure, like, just a
shout out to my wife because she's amazing. She's completely my
(12:37):
rock. Make sure that I'm okay. Like, if you don't
have that in your life, find that per. Find your
person, find your friend. Find somebody to hang out with during that.
On that day. Maybe somebody you just text or you're calling them on the
phone, talk it out. But you can also do. The other thing
I've done is I've been known to, like, cancel everything and just
(12:59):
hang out in bed for the day. That's okay, too. Like, you. You are
allowed to do that. You're allowed to say, actually,
thank you so much for that invite to that party or that thing or
that event, but I'm going to. I'm going to take a pass.
You don't have to give a reason. You don't have to go. You don't have
to put yourself in that position. So many people, we all feel like people pleaser.
(13:21):
People pleaser. Have to do all the things. No, you don't.
No, you don't. As long as you're showing up for yourself,
that's all that matters. That is showing up for yourself. Yeah. Like, you don't have
to show up for anybody else. Show up for you. Like, do the things
that make you happy. Like, for me, that's putting on my VR
headset and pretending I'm someplace else. Or pulling out my
(13:44):
favorite picture of my mom,
remembering the things that she taught me. I'll cook a meal. That
was one of her favorite meals. I will whip up my mom's
meatloaf and I'll eat the shit out of that and
not even care. And it's those little
things. And my wife will ask me, she's like, what are you
(14:08):
feeling today? And I tell her,
honestly, like, I either feel good, bad or sad. It could
be all together at the same time. And if I
can't name what the feeling is, she pretty much see it on my
face. I don't hide that well. I don't
hide sadness well. I don't either. I don't either. But I also, like,
(14:30):
started doing some journaling. Journaling on that, like with my
mom's death and my dad's death and like, things that I wish
that they had been around to see. And
maybe in the ethers of the world that they are getting those
messages. And I never do it alone
anymore. I don't. I always make sure that I have, like, my safe
(14:52):
space. My friends, my family, my wife, my journal.
And if I'm feeling super sad, I pick up the phone and
I call. People struggling with your mental health?
Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well,
you're not. Welcome to the Help Hub, your online destination
for mental health resources, content and tools to help you
(15:15):
navigate whatever mental health challenges you are facing in the moment.
At the Help Hub, we offer individualized resources tailored to
your unique needs and community, with over 16 different
categories to find exactly the kind of personalized help you need
when you need it most. Because even though we all deal with many of
the same challenges, we don't always experience those challenges the same
(15:37):
way. So whether you're looking for crisis support,
downloadable resources, or an extensive archive of mental health
related articles and videos, we've got you. From episodes of the
Survivors podcast for suicide loss survivors and lived
experience blogs to interactive tools and professional connections,
the Help Hub meets you where you are and helps you move forward with
(16:00):
strength and support. Remember, you don't have to do this
alone. Visit thehelphub.co today.
Yeah, and that's so important. And this is. I'm glad that you said that and
that we're talking about this part of grieving during milestones,
because there is a whole world out there. We're
(16:23):
in the midst of a loneliness epidemic
and there's a whole world of people out there who don't
have the wide community of
people that maybe you have or that I have. You know, I'm very
fortunate. My husband and I work in the same
place. We work from home. He's upstairs right now. I'm in My office,
(16:46):
my kids. One of them is close by. I talk to my other daughter who
lives abroad every day. My mother and I communicate every
day. I have an incredibly close family and circle of friends. A
lot of people do not have that. They don't have a partner, they
don't have a spouse, they don't have a friend circle. Maybe they don't
work. So they don't have that, that community outlet, that workplace
(17:08):
outlet. And they don't have kids. So what do
they do? Because that must be an incredibly
isolating and lonely feeling. And what I'll tell you, if you're one of
those people that I just described and you're out there listening, going, I
don't have anybody. Yes, you do. You have
anybody who is on the other end of the 988
(17:30):
suicide and crisis hotline. And there are also
warm lines. Maybe you're not suicidal.
Maybe you're not in a desperate headspace.
Maybe you're not in an abusive relationship or there's something
that you're navigating that's life threatening, but maybe you
just need to talk to a human and hear another human's
(17:53):
voice. Maybe you call 988 or maybe you
call some warm lines and you and I can put
some numbers for some warm lines in our show notes
this week to ensure that people have those. And for those who don't know what
a warm line is, use your context clues, friends. A
hotline means, like, it's hot. Like the problem is,
(18:14):
is hot on fire needs to be addressed right now. Dangerous,
potentially a warm line. Just what it sounds like.
Maybe somebody needs a little support. They need a little something. Maybe it's not life
threatening or imminent, but they just need someone. So there are warm lines.
You're never alone is the point that I'm trying to make.
(18:34):
100%. You know, and other things you can do is you can
text a trust a friend, you can say, hey, this start, this day is
hard. I just need to say hi. You know, I,
that I've done that. A bazillion times, see each other literally every
morning. Every morning. And, you know, and I talk to Dirty
Skittles, you know, from my other podcast, every
(18:57):
morning. And you, you all know when I'm not
okay, because like I said, you know, now that I've learned how
to be a whole person and
show my feelings, like, you can see it in my face. You can
hear my voice. So proud of you. But I also,
oh, thank you. But, you know, also remember that
(19:19):
therapy is not just for the early stages therapy is
ongoing. So if you feel like you're. It's going to be a really super
hard day, contact your therapist.
Yep. I have an appointment this afternoon. I can't wait. I haven't seen her for
three weeks because I was traveling so much, and I cannot
wait. It's like maintenance. You know, we go to the dentist, go to
(19:41):
the doctor, go to the chiropractor. No different.
To maintain your mental health and wellness. I can't wait
to sit and catch. Up with her and, you know,
recognize that your grief is not a weakness. It's a sign of
deep love. We lost somebody that
we loved dearly. We may not have under. We
(20:04):
may not understand why they're not here any longer. We may not understand
what was going through their mind, but
it's okay to grieve it 100%.
Like, it's necessary. It's necessary. Like, you know,
tears are cathartic.
You know, you can also be angry, and that's okay, too.
(20:27):
But don't let that anger take over everything else that you're doing
in your life. Sit with it. You can be
angry, be angry until you don't feel angry anymore. Right. And,
you know, there's no expiration date on grief. No. There's that next
breath, that next choice, and that next moment of remembering.
And every time we remember them, it can spark a little
(20:49):
joy in our heart. When I remember my mom, I
remember the good things, and I remember a lot of the bad things. But on
those certain milestone dates, I remember the
things that brought me joy. And I'll sit there and not
cry. Life's a balance. Life's a balance. We have to remember all the good with
the bad. Some days I cry. Some days I laugh.
(21:12):
Some days I do both. But, you know, there's no. There's no
timeline. And, like, don't let people, like, tell you that
to just get over it, because you just don't get over it. I'm. And if
you're saying that to people, please stop. Well, if you think
about grief in the way that I have learned to think about grief, I
don't want to stop grieving for my dad or I'm just talking about the
(21:34):
people who I've lost to suicide. My dad, my cousin, and one of
my closest friends. But I have never even really talked at all
about, you know, my grandmothers, who. My. One of my grandmothers was
my best friend in the world. Lost. My grandmothers, lost aunts, lost
uncles, lost cousins, lost friends. I mean, I've been accompanied by Grief
my whole life. I don't want to ever stop
(21:57):
grieving. And I think Stephen Colbert was one of the ones who said something very
profound. I wish I could remember the quote exactly, but he
mentioned something about how, like, it's a. It's a privilege
to be able to grieve for the people we love. And that.
That makes me think of someone else who is worth a shout out in
this particular conversation. Have I ever told you
(22:20):
my favorite book on grief? Have I ever shared that
with you? No. There is a woman. She's an author. Her
name is Marissa Renee Lee. I've been very fortunate to
have a couple of. Of DM
conversations with her privately. She is the author of my
favorite book on grief called Grief is Love.
(22:43):
And it is the most transformative book on grief I've ever
read. I could easily talk 45 minutes about this book and why
I love it and why it was so transformative, but I will make sure that
it's in the show notes. Grief is Love by Marissa
Renee Lee. And again, she's not a therapist, she's not a clinician, which
is maybe part of why it resonated with me so much, because she is this
(23:05):
regular human who was grieving loss. And it was just her
perspective on that loss. And a lot of it centered around
the fact that as hard and painful and ugly and messy
as grief is like, I actually wouldn't trade it because
it shows how much I love my people, and I want that.
It's a connector. It's a bridge to our people. So I
(23:28):
don't want to leave that behind or lose that. You just learn to
integrate it into your life and into your world. And then eventually, you know, it's
like scales, like anyone who's just listening, I'm doing with my
hands, like, tipping the scales. And eventually
joy and grief, kind of, there's a balance there, and you
learn to live with both of them. But her book, if you have not read
(23:49):
it, go get it and read it. It is
profound. And the takeaway is
be gentle with yourself. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to the people
you know, who have lost people because you.
It's the hardest thing we go through in life. It is.
(24:10):
And making sure that when
somebody does reach out to you, that you hold space for them.
And a lot of times, what I mean by holding space is
just give us time to talk. Like, listen with your
ears, not with your mouth. We need an opinion.
We'll kind of clue you in on that. But just listen to
(24:34):
us and you'll Hear
our love come out in our voices
and be thankful
that they reached out to you. Honor their
grief and just be
a good friend. That, to me is like the perfect thing
(24:56):
for anybody is just honor that space that
we're holding with you for right in that very moment. Because holding
space is not that complicated. It's just being there.
It's just showing up. It's being a place that can
receive what a person needs to share, whatever
that might be. You know, we can share things in a journal. You can talk
(25:18):
to yourself in the mirror, but when you're expressing
the innermost feelings of love or sadness or joy
that's in your heart to an actual human, whether it's over over
phone or whether it's like this through a screen, or whether it's in person,
it's next level, it's different. There is just.
(25:39):
There's a tangibleness that's not even a word, but I
made it a word today. There's a tangibleness in it, and
it matters. It means something different. I don't know about you,
but. But I can say from my own experience
and the conversations that I've had with so many people over the years who have
lost people, especially friends, it is
(26:01):
profoundly important to me
when people mention my father
profoundly on Father's Day this year. I just want to share this one thing.
I know we're coming sort of toward the end of this conversation, but I want
to share something that happened. And this is a shout out to my friend Mike
and you know who you are. This is an old, old, old childhood
(26:22):
friend. I don't have a lot of people left in the world
who knew my father. And that, like, just immediately got me so choked
up. But it's the truth. Like, obviously my mother, my husband never knew
my father, my kids. I obviously have some family members
who, aunts and uncles, but most everyone
is gone who knew my father. This
(26:45):
friend of mine, who I haven't seen him in decades, but we've recently, in
the last several years, gotten more in touch over social media.
He lives in D.C. he and his brother
and his father and my father and I used to mountain
climb together. My father was a huge mountaineer, and my father
got his father into mountain
(27:07):
climbing and peak bagging and up in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. And we
all grew up together, he and I and his brother, climbing mountains together.
And because of that, he developed this incredible, insatiable love of
being outdoors and climbing mountains. And it was because of my father.
So when I made the post I made on Father's Day to my husband and
my stepdad and my father in law and my dad. He
(27:30):
immediately wrote this message and he wrote it on Facebook, like on my wall.
And this is what made the most impact on me. He said, I
miss your dad. My dad's name was Jim. He says, I miss Jimmy
Eigner. And he said, if it were not for your father,
he was the one who brought me and my father and
(27:50):
my brother into this world, this new world that has become such a
big part of our world that we have now gifted to our children. And it
was the most beautiful post
about my dad from someone who knew my dad and spent time with my dad
and knew what he was in the world. And. And he told me in
this post that his daughter is now
(28:12):
working for the Appalachian Mountain Club,
carrying on the tradition that my father gave to
her grandfather who gave to her father. It was just this whole thing, and I'm
bawling and I'm sending screenshots to my mother and I'm reaching out to him.
I told my friend Mike in a message
that that was such a gift, Mike, I want you to hear it with my
(28:35):
own voice right now. That was like, now I'm gonna just fully cry. And I
don't even care because sometimes we cry. That was the greatest gift
anyone has given me in the longest time to just say that about my dad
out into the world. And that's the point. I need to stop talking now
because I'm crying. But you know what? That's okay, too.
Because every year when I post about my mom, all my
(28:57):
friends from high school, even elementary school, you know, my
mom was. She was central to our community,
and she was a good person. And they
all helped me remember why we all love
my mom so much and that it's okay to grieve.
And that even though they're not here anymore,
(29:20):
they're still in our hearts. And they taught us
amazing things that we get to carry on for the rest of our
lives, and we get to share with other people those
gifts. And your dad is always going to be with you,
no matter if he's here physically or not. And your mom is always
going to. Be with you 100%. Like, we carry
(29:42):
on those traditions that we
shared with them. And you know what? Life is good.
Life is good. And grief, my friends, is
love. Grief is love. Amen.
Amen. All right, Boo. I love you. I love you, G. Hey,
you want to do this again next week? Yeah, sure. All right, let's do it.
(30:03):
Okay. See you next week. Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen, and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
(30:27):
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory
of mental health resources, tools and content at thehelphub.
Co. Just remember that help is always just a call or
(30:50):
a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the meantime, keep
surviving.
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