July 2, 2025 • 27 mins
Words have power, and in the world of mental health, language can either be a bridge or a barrier. In this raw and vital episode, Lisa and Gretchen unpack why it's time to retire the phrase "committed suicide" and explore how compassionate language can shift stigma, empower survivors, and spark much-needed change.
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💡 Episode Summary
In this powerful episode, Lisa and Gretchen tackle one of the most impactful conversations around suicide: how we talk about it. They challenge the outdated, stigmatizing phrase "committed suicide" and offer insight into alternative language that centers empathy, healing, and truth. Through lived experiences—Lisa as a suicide loss survivor and Gretchen as an attempt survivor—they highlight why language matters, and how shifting it can transform both personal and collective grief.
📘 Lessons Learned-
Language shapes stigma: “Committed suicide” carries connotations of crime and shame.
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Empathy-first communication can change minds—and save lives.
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There are healthier, more respectful alternatives: “died by suicide,” “lost their life to suicide,” or “took their own life.”
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Survivors of suicide loss and attempt need compassion, not judgment.
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Changing language helps change narratives, which leads to more prevention, awareness, and healing.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Welcome 01:20 – Why Language Matters 04:47 – The Realities of Mental Illness 06:39 – Calling 988 Saved a Life 10:19 – The Problem with “Committed” 14:01 – The Weight of Loss 19:40 – Changing the Belief That Suicide Is “Selfish” 23:43 – Your Call to Action: Change the Language 26:34 – Final Thoughts & Real Talk
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub. This
podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be
triggering for some listeners. So please take care of your mental well being
by pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if
you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
We're very glad you're here because this is a conversation that I know
(00:24):
that I've wanted to have for a really, really long time. I've had it a
million times in lots of other places,
platforms, podcasts, and I am so excited to have it here.
And I know you are too. And it's why we need
to stop saying committed suicide. I'm so
excited that we have an entire conversation dedicated to
(00:46):
this one thing, because in my own opinion, as a
suicide loss survivor three times over, it
has become so visceral to me when I hear someone say
committed suicide, because I understand the kind of damage
that done when someone says it. And so I'm
so excited to have a conversation where we explain
(01:09):
why we need to stop doing that. And that that's one of the critical
steps in changing the narrative on mental illness and suicide.
Like when I had my attempt,
I. That was the other thing that was going through my. Through my
mind is how are people gonna define what I did to myself
(01:32):
and how is this going to affect
other people? I was in that type of frame of mind. I was
close. If I hadn't called 988, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't be here.
Yeah, I know, and I'm. I've said it before and I'll say it a million
more times. I am so grateful that you learned about
that number and that you had the presence of mind to call that number,
(01:55):
because now we get to do this and we get to hopefully inspire other people
to call that number or feel differently about
struggling and reaching out and not being, okay,
so let's talk about this, because it's like burning
a hole in my heart. So I want you to think for a second about
(02:16):
how language shapes things like stigma
and that the words that we use matter
so, so much. And when we say something like
committed suicide, we put that word committed, attach it to suicide.
It really stems from a time in our history, in our collective
(02:37):
history, when suicide was considered a sin or a crime. And in some
places, unfortunately, it kind of still is. And when we
say committed suicide, it's reinforcing
things like shame and guilt and this whole
idea that suicide is this moral failing
rather than a mental health crisis or the result of
(03:00):
unbearable emotional pain, which is what it is. It
is not a crime. It is not immoral, it is not illicit. It
is a product of depression, which is a product
of mental illness. Illness and
words matter. And the way we talk about things shapes
and frames the way people think about those things. Does
(03:22):
that all make sense? It does, you know, because when
we say things other than
committed suicide, we are. We're helping to break down that stigma
because there's so much
stigma in, in this arena. And
then you add on the mental health aspect to it, then
(03:44):
you add on vets, men, children, women, the whole
nine yards. When you say the words committed suicide, it also
implies, like you said, guilt and shame. Like
when, for the survivors, there's so
much more that goes into that and it
makes it hurt, hurt even more. It does, it does, because
(04:06):
it unfairly stigmatizes the person who
chose to end their life. And we have to remember
that when someone is mentally ill, when they're in a headspace where
they are absolutely desperate and hopeless and in pain,
in absolute pain, all they
want is for that pain to end. And that's where it comes from.
(04:29):
That's where the decision to end your life
comes from. It's not because most people want to escape their family
or escape their job or escape responsibility or. It's not.
It's not like that, that quick exit for those reasons.
It's an exit out of the pain that they're in. And at that
point, probably when someone is at that stage where they're so
(04:52):
totally hopeless, well, that's the only thing they can control,
is because clearly if someone is that affected by their
mental illness and depression and they can't see any light
whatsoever in their life, they just don't have control
anymore. And so that's a way that someone
can regain, even in a final act, can regain that
(05:14):
control over their life by making the decision to make it
stop. And unfortunately, that is a surefire
guarantee that it will stop. It just stops everything. It
doesn't just stop the pain. And that's the shitty part about mental
illness, is that it hijacks your common sense, your, you
know, depression. That's a sneaky little conniving
(05:37):
bitch because it sneaks into your thoughts and corrupts
your ability to rationally think about something
and your ability to see that, okay, like, I'm in a bad place right now,
I'm in a bad headspace or a bad situation, and this is sucking right now.
But it will not always be this way. It will not
always look this way. It will not always feel this way. There's another side. You
(05:58):
can't see that, could you? Before you called
988, where was your headspace before you called
988?
It was all over the place. I just wanted it to stop.
I couldn't get the voices in my head to stop.
I couldn't. I couldn't find my voice. I couldn't find my footing. I couldn't
(06:22):
even describe to you how I was feeling because I didn't understand it.
And by the time I got to the point where I picked up the phone
and called 988, I was kind of relieved
because now somebody put a voice to what was going on in
my head. It's a scary place. And
(06:43):
when you don't understand what's going on and you
can't put words to it, it makes it even worse.
Yeah. And then when the words that you
are putting to it are words like committed, and
let's isolate that word for a split second and think about
the connotation. In so many ways,
(07:04):
the word committed has a very negative connotation because you think,
commit a murder, commit a sin, commit a felony, commit
adultery. Like, those are not positive things. There's no spin
on those. Those are negative things. So you're
unfairly stereotyping the person who's dealing with mental illness. Would
you ever do that to someone who had cancer? Would
(07:27):
you ever do that to someone who had heart disease or who
died in some kind of an accident? Like, no one's
stereotyping those people or stigmatizing those
people or having issues
talking openly about what happened to those people because
nobody thinks that there's anything wrong. It's like, oh, that per. That poor person.
(07:50):
It was beyond their control. Well, guess what? Everybody who's listening right now to this
conversation. So is mental illness. In so many ways, it is
beyond the person's control, but what
it is, is still an illness. It needs to be
treated in the same way that you would treat any of those other
illnesses. And it just sucks that for
(08:12):
centuries, since the beginning of. Of time,
when people started taking their own lives,
whenever that began, suicide was illegal
and it was immoral and it was taboo.
And that stuck. And you know why it stuck? It stuck because
of the language that we used. And even though, okay, sure, a lot of
(08:34):
the laws in our modern day society have
changed in a more positive way to reflect an
understanding that it's not immoral, illegal, or illicit.
It's still stigmatized. People are still
afraid to Say, oh, my person died
by suicide. Or I'm a survivor of an attempt, and
(08:57):
it needs to change. It needs to change. Because any of
these narratives around mental illness and suicide won't ever
really truly change unless the language we use to
talk about them changes first. Right. Like,
you know, good alternatives to committed suicide
are they took their own life. We.
(09:19):
We lost them to suicide. Died by
suicide. People are saying died by suicide. Yeah, people are saying they
suicided. I don't personally say that as much, but I'm
hearing it more and more and more, and it's becoming very, very
commonplace. But there are so many other ways. You know what that does. It
preserves that person's dignity. Yes. Or
(09:42):
even, like, died as a result of mental illness.
But, like, just be kind, be kind. Because
when someone loses their life to
suicide, there's so much grief
behind that. So much, much more than,
like, if somebody had gotten hit by a car or died of natural
(10:05):
causes. When somebody gets to that point. And speaking for
myself, you have a million things going through your
head, and it is the scariest thing.
It's the scariest place to be, I'm sure. So,
going back to the word of the year, just be kind. Use your
kind words. It's unfair. I was trying to think of a
(10:28):
better word, but, you know, apparently I'm having a brain fart today,
so. That's okay. That's okay. You're
allowed. This happens when you almost
62. You know the other thing around using the words
committed suicide, there's so many connotations to it.
Like if you're talking to the spouse or a
(10:51):
friend or a coworker, it makes people
feel uncomfortable. If you say they lost
their life to suicide or they took their life,
that has a softer tone to it. And yes, suicide is
still a taboo word out there. I don't understand why it
shouldn't be. Just as mental health is still taboo.
(11:14):
Get over it, people. It's still happening. It happens on a
daily basis. And the world's not
helping with that. No, it's not. And you did a great job
of highlighting a lot of the alternatives to saying
committed suicide and what to replace it with. And
when you say something like died by suicide or
(11:36):
ended their life or took their life, those are phrases
that will acknowledge that person's death
without judgment or without blame. And that's the
end game. That's the idea. That's
how we change it and how we open up the conversation
so that it's not so hard and scary and hurtful and
(11:58):
taboo anymore. It's just, it is, it is what it is and
you're not stigmatizing the person who's attached to it anymore. You
know, it also honors the pain and the humanity because now you can
focus on the suffering and the mental illness. Yeah. Rather than
the act itself. It's easier to support the survivors.
Right. Because when you are
(12:21):
thinking about taking your life, there's a lot that goes into that. There's a lot
of mental, like, bingo going on in your head, like,
okay, well, if I do this, like, how, how's this going to
affect people that will be talking
about me later on after I've
taken my life? It's just,
(12:44):
it's really hard and it's really hard on the survivors. So,
you know, use your kind words.
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed,
or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to the Help
Hub, your online destination for mental health resources,
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(13:06):
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exactly the kind of personalized help you need when you need it most.
Because even though we all deal with many of the same challenges, we don't always
experience those challenges the same way. So whether you're looking for
(13:29):
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extensive archive of mental health related articles and videos, we've got
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(13:52):
Remember, you don't have to do this alone. Visit
thehelphub.co today.
Yeah, and speaking as a survivor, I know how it
feels to live in the aftermath
of not one, not two, but unfortunately, three different
(14:13):
suicides over the course of my life. And in some cases,
there were elements of those deaths that were obvious.
Like, in other words, what I mean by that is the why was
a little bit more obvious in some cases with some than with others. Like if
you take the. The circumstances around my father,
for instance, we. We only knew bits and pieces, very few bits and pieces. The
(14:35):
rest we really won't ever know. Like, what was the event, what
was the thing that kind of brought them to that
tipping point? And, and there usually isn't one thing, it's usually a
lot of things, but we don't know. And then there's
the guilt piece and then there's the shame piece, which of course
the word choice that we Use is a huge contributor to that shame
(14:59):
piece. Because now we're taught, and we're teaching
everyone that it's shameful because of the way we talk about
it. So we can't do that. And shifting the language is
such a powerful but such a small act,
but it has humongous ripple effects. When you change
language, it just normalizes talking about
(15:22):
this big, ugly, scary thing openly and it breaks down things
like silence, which is always attached to
suicide. And it creates room for things like prevention
and for things like intervention and for things like support
just by virtue of shifting the language, you know, and it tells the people who
are struggling. Like, I bet when you were struggling, I know that
(15:45):
your wife wasn't aware, people weren't aware, you're very much an
extrovert. So you were just like, I'm good, I'm
good. How you doing? Gee, I'm great. I'm great. I bet you would have
loved to have known that it. You're not a criminal, you're not doing
anything wrong. You're a human being and you're in pain.
And oh, by the way, there's so much help out there.
(16:10):
Funny you brought that up. Cause I was just thinking about that. For those
of us that present as extroverts, yes, we are
happy. Go lucky. 9 times out of 10, you are not going to be able
to tell if we're super depressed. We mask it well.
Not a badge of honor. If you're doing that
now, please stop. Because I can tell you from my own experience, it doesn't
(16:32):
help. It only really hurts. But for those of us that are
extroverted, I've
often heard of people saying that suicide is selfish
and that you're a coward and you had so much to live for.
Okay? When you're in that process, I'm just going to tell
you there's a lot of shit that's going on in your head
(16:54):
and you're not thinking about how maybe selfish this
is or how much you have to live in your for in your life or
how you're a coward. For me,
I was 59 and a half when this happened. I didn't
understand what was going on in my own head.
And I couldn't think enough about
(17:18):
how this was going to affect other people.
But when I started to share my story, I had one or two
people reach out to me and tell me what a selfish act that would have
been. Don't do that, okay? Because I already
felt shitty enough as it was. I don't need people to
tell me What a selfish, cowardly
(17:40):
thing that is to do with Be nice.
Yeah, and I'm really glad that you brought that up. And I have mentioned this
in past episodes relating to my own belief
systems around suicide and how much that's changed.
I will absolutely own up to the fact that for
a great portion of my life. So I'm almost
(18:02):
57, touched by suicide since I was nine years old. So it's
been unfortunately an ongoing relationship
with grief, loss, death, suicide. That, that's been part of my life since
the very beginning. And the first death I ever encountered
was a suicide. My cousin took his life and I was nine and I was
made aware that it was suicide. No one told me that it was
(18:24):
selfish. No one talked to me about things like
stigma, because nobody was talking about it in 1978 anyway or
1977. But I just somehow
concocted this image of suicide as a selfish act.
And I lived with that belief quietly in my own little head and
heart. I'd never expressed it to anybody,
(18:46):
but that's what I felt. And it was only when
I found out the truth about my own father's suicide.
He had been gone 35 years. I thought it was a heart attack. And
the revelation in my story is that it wasn't a heart attack. He took his
life. And I learned it by mistake 35 years later,
learning that he had mental illness and then really understanding what somebody who was
(19:10):
in your headspace was going through or was feeling
like my father was feeling. It absolutely changed everything for me.
And it was like overnight. I no longer believed that
it was a selfish act because I understood. But there are a lot of people
out there who don't believe that still. And that's the
other thing that if you wanted to kind of pair something with
(19:32):
changing the language around suicide, it's
changing the belief system about the selfishness of it.
And that's. People who are gonna say that are people who are just
pissed cause it affected them. What do you mean
you're not happy in your life? You've got everything to live for. You know, we
see all these celebrities who take their life and it's like you had fame, you
(19:54):
had money, you had admiration, all these things, and why could you
possibly take your life? It becomes so, so self
centered. Anybody who says that,
who says it's selfish because it's not about you. I
mean, yeah, unfortunately it's going to affect you if someone close to you takes
their life. But it wasn't about you, it was about the pain they were
(20:17):
in. So stop Making it about you. My
God, like, spot on. For those of us that are suicide
attempt survivors, you know, there was
so much that went into that day, and it had been building up and building
up and building up until I got to the point where I was just
done. But there's a lot of
(20:39):
shame that goes into this. And that shame comes
from everything we've learned through social media and the news and
everything else. And so it's not just celebrities that are
taking their life. There's, like, normal people like me. And
life gets hard, really, really hard. And
(21:00):
it's a shame game. And telling survivors that their
partner or friend, that was a cowardly thing to do. And I was
selfish. And you have zero
right, I mean, zero to say
anything. If you have nothing nice to say,
don't say anything at all. I hear my mother in my
(21:21):
head right now because that's something she would say to us all the
time. And use your good words.
Think really, really hard about if you were the survivor.
Right. How would you want somebody to address you? Use your
nice words. Yeah. And remember that those
words that you use when they're not the nice
(21:44):
ones, the understanding, compassionate, empathetic ones, are the ones
that are perpetuating this stigma.
And it's. It's once we have these conversations over and over and
over and over again and drum it into people's heads that we need to change
that language. That is when the shift will happen. So.
So you and I, from time to time, I feel like in almost
(22:07):
every episode, one way or another, we have a call to action.
It's call 911. It's check out the Trevor project. It's lean into
the people who are closest to you. Try therapy. We have lots of different
call to action. So here's the call to action that we
have for you today. If you're listening to this conversation,
challenge yourself and the people around you
(22:30):
to be intentional with the language that you use when
you're talking about something like suicide. Because you may not
be one of the 94 million people in
this world, around the world, who are affected in some way by
suicide. But if you aren't, you're lucky. And
if you aren't, you will be eventually. So
(22:53):
listen to this conversation, absorb this conversation, internalize it,
and educate your communities, educate your
people. Get off your phone right now and have this conversation
with your teenage kids or have this conversation with your
boomer parents who are hardwired to think
that there's only one way to talk about suicide, and it's to Say committed
(23:15):
suicide. Talk to them. Share this conversation, especially
in the media and schools and in mental health
spaces and in your book club. Like, normalize the
correct language that we all need to be using
and model it. Model it gently and
correctly and make sure that
(23:37):
you're using it appropriately
so that other people can do the same. I love that call
to action. And my call to action is if you have
any questions for me as a suicide attempt
survivor or for Lisa as a
suicide loss survivor, reach out to us on our DMs or
(23:59):
go out to our webpage. I'd be more than happy to talk to anybody.
I'm still dealing with it two years later, but I'm in a much
healthier headspace than I was Christmas Day
2022. Yeah, we want to hear from you.
We want to hear what you think, we want to hear what you feel,
we want to hear what you say. What's your language? What
(24:21):
do you say? Maybe you say something different than the handful of
suggestions that we've given out today. We want to
know. We'll circulate that. I'm always curious
to see how people can do this in different ways.
One thing I want to shout out, and it's not really a great shout out,
TikTok, I'm talking to you right now. I have real issues
(24:43):
with TikTok, and I'll probably get Shadow banned for saying this, but
I cannot type the word suicide
into a post on TikTok because
it will get rejected. And that is the
biggest bunch of bullshit. And it's what is
absolutely wrong with this world right now. This is
(25:04):
exactly the generation that we need to appeal to
because they are the future. They're the ones who are going to
make the changes and have to live in this environment, in this world,
with this issue, long after we're gone. So
the only way to get around saying suicide on
platforms like Twitter is to say unalived, which
(25:27):
I think is ridiculous, but that's what everybody says,
unalived. And I think that is a bunch of
shit, because we need to be saying the word. Like
suicide is a word that exists because it is a thing that happens
at least 94 million times a year. Well, at least 700,000
times a year around the country. And then 94 million people are
(25:50):
affected by it. So it's out there, friends, and we have to get used
to it. And that's the only way that we're going to stop it. These are
outdated narratives that we're talking about. And
gee, you and I are trying to do our part to help change the
collective consciousness. And we hope that for everybody
who listened to this conversation today, we hope it resonated.
(26:11):
We hope it shifted something in you. If you were one of those people who
was just saying it the way you were taught, no, shame on you. It's just
how we all grew up. It's what we all learned. But now you know, there's
a different way. There's a better way. So please take this to
heart. Please continue this conversation with the people who are in your life.
And please help in changing this narrative, because it needs
(26:32):
to be changed. Thank you, Ms.
Lisa. I love this so much.
Okay, now I lost my fucking train of thought again. So. It's okay. We'll
end here. Wow. We just went from super
deep to swearing and just calling it
quits because. I'm old and I can't remember what I was gonna say.
(26:54):
I know you need to. You need to take your iron pills or something like
that today. I don't know. Listen, I want you to do me a favor. After
we're done here, I want you to go home and take a nap.
Anyway. Hey, look, this is a great conversation. It was. I
love you a lot and I appreciate you. I love you, too. I'll see you
next week by.
(27:16):
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough. And the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here, and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here. Friends, just remember, help is out there
(27:39):
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of
mental health resources, tools and content at
thehelphub.co. just remember that help is always
just a call or a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the
(28:01):
meantime, keep
Survivor.
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub. This
podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be
triggering for some listeners. So please take care of your mental well being
by pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you. And if
you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
We're very glad you're here because this is a conversation that I know
(00:24):
that I've wanted to have for a really, really long time. I've had it a
million times in lots of other places,
platforms, podcasts, and I am so excited to have it here.
And I know you are too. And it's why we need
to stop saying committed suicide. I'm so
excited that we have an entire conversation dedicated to
(00:46):
this one thing, because in my own opinion, as a
suicide loss survivor three times over, it
has become so visceral to me when I hear someone say
committed suicide, because I understand the kind of damage
that done when someone says it. And so I'm
so excited to have a conversation where we explain
(01:09):
why we need to stop doing that. And that that's one of the critical
steps in changing the narrative on mental illness and suicide.
Like when I had my attempt,
I. That was the other thing that was going through my. Through my
mind is how are people gonna define what I did to myself
(01:32):
and how is this going to affect
other people? I was in that type of frame of mind. I was
close. If I hadn't called 988, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't be here.
Yeah, I know, and I'm. I've said it before and I'll say it a million
more times. I am so grateful that you learned about
that number and that you had the presence of mind to call that number,
(01:55):
because now we get to do this and we get to hopefully inspire other people
to call that number or feel differently about
struggling and reaching out and not being, okay,
so let's talk about this, because it's like burning
a hole in my heart. So I want you to think for a second about
(02:16):
how language shapes things like stigma
and that the words that we use matter
so, so much. And when we say something like
committed suicide, we put that word committed, attach it to suicide.
It really stems from a time in our history, in our collective
(02:37):
history, when suicide was considered a sin or a crime. And in some
places, unfortunately, it kind of still is. And when we
say committed suicide, it's reinforcing
things like shame and guilt and this whole
idea that suicide is this moral failing
rather than a mental health crisis or the result of
(03:00):
unbearable emotional pain, which is what it is. It
is not a crime. It is not immoral, it is not illicit. It
is a product of depression, which is a product
of mental illness. Illness and
words matter. And the way we talk about things shapes
and frames the way people think about those things. Does
(03:22):
that all make sense? It does, you know, because when
we say things other than
committed suicide, we are. We're helping to break down that stigma
because there's so much
stigma in, in this arena. And
then you add on the mental health aspect to it, then
(03:44):
you add on vets, men, children, women, the whole
nine yards. When you say the words committed suicide, it also
implies, like you said, guilt and shame. Like
when, for the survivors, there's so
much more that goes into that and it
makes it hurt, hurt even more. It does, it does, because
(04:06):
it unfairly stigmatizes the person who
chose to end their life. And we have to remember
that when someone is mentally ill, when they're in a headspace where
they are absolutely desperate and hopeless and in pain,
in absolute pain, all they
want is for that pain to end. And that's where it comes from.
(04:29):
That's where the decision to end your life
comes from. It's not because most people want to escape their family
or escape their job or escape responsibility or. It's not.
It's not like that, that quick exit for those reasons.
It's an exit out of the pain that they're in. And at that
point, probably when someone is at that stage where they're so
(04:52):
totally hopeless, well, that's the only thing they can control,
is because clearly if someone is that affected by their
mental illness and depression and they can't see any light
whatsoever in their life, they just don't have control
anymore. And so that's a way that someone
can regain, even in a final act, can regain that
(05:14):
control over their life by making the decision to make it
stop. And unfortunately, that is a surefire
guarantee that it will stop. It just stops everything. It
doesn't just stop the pain. And that's the shitty part about mental
illness, is that it hijacks your common sense, your, you
know, depression. That's a sneaky little conniving
(05:37):
bitch because it sneaks into your thoughts and corrupts
your ability to rationally think about something
and your ability to see that, okay, like, I'm in a bad place right now,
I'm in a bad headspace or a bad situation, and this is sucking right now.
But it will not always be this way. It will not
always look this way. It will not always feel this way. There's another side. You
(05:58):
can't see that, could you? Before you called
988, where was your headspace before you called
988?
It was all over the place. I just wanted it to stop.
I couldn't get the voices in my head to stop.
I couldn't. I couldn't find my voice. I couldn't find my footing. I couldn't
(06:22):
even describe to you how I was feeling because I didn't understand it.
And by the time I got to the point where I picked up the phone
and called 988, I was kind of relieved
because now somebody put a voice to what was going on in
my head. It's a scary place. And
(06:43):
when you don't understand what's going on and you
can't put words to it, it makes it even worse.
Yeah. And then when the words that you
are putting to it are words like committed, and
let's isolate that word for a split second and think about
the connotation. In so many ways,
(07:04):
the word committed has a very negative connotation because you think,
commit a murder, commit a sin, commit a felony, commit
adultery. Like, those are not positive things. There's no spin
on those. Those are negative things. So you're
unfairly stereotyping the person who's dealing with mental illness. Would
you ever do that to someone who had cancer? Would
(07:27):
you ever do that to someone who had heart disease or who
died in some kind of an accident? Like, no one's
stereotyping those people or stigmatizing those
people or having issues
talking openly about what happened to those people because
nobody thinks that there's anything wrong. It's like, oh, that per. That poor person.
(07:50):
It was beyond their control. Well, guess what? Everybody who's listening right now to this
conversation. So is mental illness. In so many ways, it is
beyond the person's control, but what
it is, is still an illness. It needs to be
treated in the same way that you would treat any of those other
illnesses. And it just sucks that for
(08:12):
centuries, since the beginning of. Of time,
when people started taking their own lives,
whenever that began, suicide was illegal
and it was immoral and it was taboo.
And that stuck. And you know why it stuck? It stuck because
of the language that we used. And even though, okay, sure, a lot of
(08:34):
the laws in our modern day society have
changed in a more positive way to reflect an
understanding that it's not immoral, illegal, or illicit.
It's still stigmatized. People are still
afraid to Say, oh, my person died
by suicide. Or I'm a survivor of an attempt, and
(08:57):
it needs to change. It needs to change. Because any of
these narratives around mental illness and suicide won't ever
really truly change unless the language we use to
talk about them changes first. Right. Like,
you know, good alternatives to committed suicide
are they took their own life. We.
(09:19):
We lost them to suicide. Died by
suicide. People are saying died by suicide. Yeah, people are saying they
suicided. I don't personally say that as much, but I'm
hearing it more and more and more, and it's becoming very, very
commonplace. But there are so many other ways. You know what that does. It
preserves that person's dignity. Yes. Or
(09:42):
even, like, died as a result of mental illness.
But, like, just be kind, be kind. Because
when someone loses their life to
suicide, there's so much grief
behind that. So much, much more than,
like, if somebody had gotten hit by a car or died of natural
(10:05):
causes. When somebody gets to that point. And speaking for
myself, you have a million things going through your
head, and it is the scariest thing.
It's the scariest place to be, I'm sure. So,
going back to the word of the year, just be kind. Use your
kind words. It's unfair. I was trying to think of a
(10:28):
better word, but, you know, apparently I'm having a brain fart today,
so. That's okay. That's okay. You're
allowed. This happens when you almost
62. You know the other thing around using the words
committed suicide, there's so many connotations to it.
Like if you're talking to the spouse or a
(10:51):
friend or a coworker, it makes people
feel uncomfortable. If you say they lost
their life to suicide or they took their life,
that has a softer tone to it. And yes, suicide is
still a taboo word out there. I don't understand why it
shouldn't be. Just as mental health is still taboo.
(11:14):
Get over it, people. It's still happening. It happens on a
daily basis. And the world's not
helping with that. No, it's not. And you did a great job
of highlighting a lot of the alternatives to saying
committed suicide and what to replace it with. And
when you say something like died by suicide or
(11:36):
ended their life or took their life, those are phrases
that will acknowledge that person's death
without judgment or without blame. And that's the
end game. That's the idea. That's
how we change it and how we open up the conversation
so that it's not so hard and scary and hurtful and
(11:58):
taboo anymore. It's just, it is, it is what it is and
you're not stigmatizing the person who's attached to it anymore. You
know, it also honors the pain and the humanity because now you can
focus on the suffering and the mental illness. Yeah. Rather than
the act itself. It's easier to support the survivors.
Right. Because when you are
(12:21):
thinking about taking your life, there's a lot that goes into that. There's a lot
of mental, like, bingo going on in your head, like,
okay, well, if I do this, like, how, how's this going to
affect people that will be talking
about me later on after I've
taken my life? It's just,
(12:44):
it's really hard and it's really hard on the survivors. So,
you know, use your kind words.
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed,
or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to the Help
Hub, your online destination for mental health resources,
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(13:06):
challenges you are facing in the moment. At the Help Hub, we
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exactly the kind of personalized help you need when you need it most.
Because even though we all deal with many of the same challenges, we don't always
experience those challenges the same way. So whether you're looking for
(13:29):
crisis support, downloadable resources, or an
extensive archive of mental health related articles and videos, we've got
you. From episodes of the Survivors podcast for suicide loss
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tools and professional connections, the Help Hub meets you where you
are and helps you move forward with strength and support.
(13:52):
Remember, you don't have to do this alone. Visit
thehelphub.co today.
Yeah, and speaking as a survivor, I know how it
feels to live in the aftermath
of not one, not two, but unfortunately, three different
(14:13):
suicides over the course of my life. And in some cases,
there were elements of those deaths that were obvious.
Like, in other words, what I mean by that is the why was
a little bit more obvious in some cases with some than with others. Like if
you take the. The circumstances around my father,
for instance, we. We only knew bits and pieces, very few bits and pieces. The
(14:35):
rest we really won't ever know. Like, what was the event, what
was the thing that kind of brought them to that
tipping point? And, and there usually isn't one thing, it's usually a
lot of things, but we don't know. And then there's
the guilt piece and then there's the shame piece, which of course
the word choice that we Use is a huge contributor to that shame
(14:59):
piece. Because now we're taught, and we're teaching
everyone that it's shameful because of the way we talk about
it. So we can't do that. And shifting the language is
such a powerful but such a small act,
but it has humongous ripple effects. When you change
language, it just normalizes talking about
(15:22):
this big, ugly, scary thing openly and it breaks down things
like silence, which is always attached to
suicide. And it creates room for things like prevention
and for things like intervention and for things like support
just by virtue of shifting the language, you know, and it tells the people who
are struggling. Like, I bet when you were struggling, I know that
(15:45):
your wife wasn't aware, people weren't aware, you're very much an
extrovert. So you were just like, I'm good, I'm
good. How you doing? Gee, I'm great. I'm great. I bet you would have
loved to have known that it. You're not a criminal, you're not doing
anything wrong. You're a human being and you're in pain.
And oh, by the way, there's so much help out there.
(16:10):
Funny you brought that up. Cause I was just thinking about that. For those
of us that present as extroverts, yes, we are
happy. Go lucky. 9 times out of 10, you are not going to be able
to tell if we're super depressed. We mask it well.
Not a badge of honor. If you're doing that
now, please stop. Because I can tell you from my own experience, it doesn't
(16:32):
help. It only really hurts. But for those of us that are
extroverted, I've
often heard of people saying that suicide is selfish
and that you're a coward and you had so much to live for.
Okay? When you're in that process, I'm just going to tell
you there's a lot of shit that's going on in your head
(16:54):
and you're not thinking about how maybe selfish this
is or how much you have to live in your for in your life or
how you're a coward. For me,
I was 59 and a half when this happened. I didn't
understand what was going on in my own head.
And I couldn't think enough about
(17:18):
how this was going to affect other people.
But when I started to share my story, I had one or two
people reach out to me and tell me what a selfish act that would have
been. Don't do that, okay? Because I already
felt shitty enough as it was. I don't need people to
tell me What a selfish, cowardly
(17:40):
thing that is to do with Be nice.
Yeah, and I'm really glad that you brought that up. And I have mentioned this
in past episodes relating to my own belief
systems around suicide and how much that's changed.
I will absolutely own up to the fact that for
a great portion of my life. So I'm almost
(18:02):
57, touched by suicide since I was nine years old. So it's
been unfortunately an ongoing relationship
with grief, loss, death, suicide. That, that's been part of my life since
the very beginning. And the first death I ever encountered
was a suicide. My cousin took his life and I was nine and I was
made aware that it was suicide. No one told me that it was
(18:24):
selfish. No one talked to me about things like
stigma, because nobody was talking about it in 1978 anyway or
1977. But I just somehow
concocted this image of suicide as a selfish act.
And I lived with that belief quietly in my own little head and
heart. I'd never expressed it to anybody,
(18:46):
but that's what I felt. And it was only when
I found out the truth about my own father's suicide.
He had been gone 35 years. I thought it was a heart attack. And
the revelation in my story is that it wasn't a heart attack. He took his
life. And I learned it by mistake 35 years later,
learning that he had mental illness and then really understanding what somebody who was
(19:10):
in your headspace was going through or was feeling
like my father was feeling. It absolutely changed everything for me.
And it was like overnight. I no longer believed that
it was a selfish act because I understood. But there are a lot of people
out there who don't believe that still. And that's the
other thing that if you wanted to kind of pair something with
(19:32):
changing the language around suicide, it's
changing the belief system about the selfishness of it.
And that's. People who are gonna say that are people who are just
pissed cause it affected them. What do you mean
you're not happy in your life? You've got everything to live for. You know, we
see all these celebrities who take their life and it's like you had fame, you
(19:54):
had money, you had admiration, all these things, and why could you
possibly take your life? It becomes so, so self
centered. Anybody who says that,
who says it's selfish because it's not about you. I
mean, yeah, unfortunately it's going to affect you if someone close to you takes
their life. But it wasn't about you, it was about the pain they were
(20:17):
in. So stop Making it about you. My
God, like, spot on. For those of us that are suicide
attempt survivors, you know, there was
so much that went into that day, and it had been building up and building
up and building up until I got to the point where I was just
done. But there's a lot of
(20:39):
shame that goes into this. And that shame comes
from everything we've learned through social media and the news and
everything else. And so it's not just celebrities that are
taking their life. There's, like, normal people like me. And
life gets hard, really, really hard. And
(21:00):
it's a shame game. And telling survivors that their
partner or friend, that was a cowardly thing to do. And I was
selfish. And you have zero
right, I mean, zero to say
anything. If you have nothing nice to say,
don't say anything at all. I hear my mother in my
(21:21):
head right now because that's something she would say to us all the
time. And use your good words.
Think really, really hard about if you were the survivor.
Right. How would you want somebody to address you? Use your
nice words. Yeah. And remember that those
words that you use when they're not the nice
(21:44):
ones, the understanding, compassionate, empathetic ones, are the ones
that are perpetuating this stigma.
And it's. It's once we have these conversations over and over and
over and over again and drum it into people's heads that we need to change
that language. That is when the shift will happen. So.
So you and I, from time to time, I feel like in almost
(22:07):
every episode, one way or another, we have a call to action.
It's call 911. It's check out the Trevor project. It's lean into
the people who are closest to you. Try therapy. We have lots of different
call to action. So here's the call to action that we
have for you today. If you're listening to this conversation,
challenge yourself and the people around you
(22:30):
to be intentional with the language that you use when
you're talking about something like suicide. Because you may not
be one of the 94 million people in
this world, around the world, who are affected in some way by
suicide. But if you aren't, you're lucky. And
if you aren't, you will be eventually. So
(22:53):
listen to this conversation, absorb this conversation, internalize it,
and educate your communities, educate your
people. Get off your phone right now and have this conversation
with your teenage kids or have this conversation with your
boomer parents who are hardwired to think
that there's only one way to talk about suicide, and it's to Say committed
(23:15):
suicide. Talk to them. Share this conversation, especially
in the media and schools and in mental health
spaces and in your book club. Like, normalize the
correct language that we all need to be using
and model it. Model it gently and
correctly and make sure that
(23:37):
you're using it appropriately
so that other people can do the same. I love that call
to action. And my call to action is if you have
any questions for me as a suicide attempt
survivor or for Lisa as a
suicide loss survivor, reach out to us on our DMs or
(23:59):
go out to our webpage. I'd be more than happy to talk to anybody.
I'm still dealing with it two years later, but I'm in a much
healthier headspace than I was Christmas Day
2022. Yeah, we want to hear from you.
We want to hear what you think, we want to hear what you feel,
we want to hear what you say. What's your language? What
(24:21):
do you say? Maybe you say something different than the handful of
suggestions that we've given out today. We want to
know. We'll circulate that. I'm always curious
to see how people can do this in different ways.
One thing I want to shout out, and it's not really a great shout out,
TikTok, I'm talking to you right now. I have real issues
(24:43):
with TikTok, and I'll probably get Shadow banned for saying this, but
I cannot type the word suicide
into a post on TikTok because
it will get rejected. And that is the
biggest bunch of bullshit. And it's what is
absolutely wrong with this world right now. This is
(25:04):
exactly the generation that we need to appeal to
because they are the future. They're the ones who are going to
make the changes and have to live in this environment, in this world,
with this issue, long after we're gone. So
the only way to get around saying suicide on
platforms like Twitter is to say unalived, which
(25:27):
I think is ridiculous, but that's what everybody says,
unalived. And I think that is a bunch of
shit, because we need to be saying the word. Like
suicide is a word that exists because it is a thing that happens
at least 94 million times a year. Well, at least 700,000
times a year around the country. And then 94 million people are
(25:50):
affected by it. So it's out there, friends, and we have to get used
to it. And that's the only way that we're going to stop it. These are
outdated narratives that we're talking about. And
gee, you and I are trying to do our part to help change the
collective consciousness. And we hope that for everybody
who listened to this conversation today, we hope it resonated.
(26:11):
We hope it shifted something in you. If you were one of those people who
was just saying it the way you were taught, no, shame on you. It's just
how we all grew up. It's what we all learned. But now you know, there's
a different way. There's a better way. So please take this to
heart. Please continue this conversation with the people who are in your life.
And please help in changing this narrative, because it needs
(26:32):
to be changed. Thank you, Ms.
Lisa. I love this so much.
Okay, now I lost my fucking train of thought again. So. It's okay. We'll
end here. Wow. We just went from super
deep to swearing and just calling it
quits because. I'm old and I can't remember what I was gonna say.
(26:54):
I know you need to. You need to take your iron pills or something like
that today. I don't know. Listen, I want you to do me a favor. After
we're done here, I want you to go home and take a nap.
Anyway. Hey, look, this is a great conversation. It was. I
love you a lot and I appreciate you. I love you, too. I'll see you
next week by.
(27:16):
Thanks for joining us on the Survivors. Remember, no matter how tough things
feel, you are enough. And the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here, and every step forward
counts. We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll
take one day at a time. Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here. Friends, just remember, help is out there
(27:39):
in so many different places. So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be
there to help. You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of
mental health resources, tools and content at
thehelphub.co. just remember that help is always
just a call or a click away. We'll catch you next week. In the
(28:01):
meantime, keep
Survivor.
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