July 31, 2024 • 26 mins
Welcome to episode three of "The Truth About Hair". In this episode, Adam takes us through the intricate phases of hair growth and early hair loss, shedding light on a topic that affects many. Starting with the hair growth cycle, Adam explains the four stages: Anagen, Catagen, Telogen, and Exogen, and how they contribute to hair health.
We delve into what happens when stress or trauma impacts hair loss, the normal rate of hair shedding, and the signs of excessive hair loss. Adam also discusses the percentage of hair in the growing phase and how miniaturisation affects hair thickness over time.
From recognising early hair loss to understanding the effects of DHT on hair follicles, this episode covers it all. We explore natural, medical, and surgical methods to treat hair loss, emphasising the importance of honesty and transparency in hair care products. Adam also touches on the effectiveness of scalp massages, derma rollers, and low-level laser lights in promoting blood flow and hair health.
Tune in to learn about the different types of hair loss, including genetic and stress-induced, and discover the best practices for maintaining healthy hair growth. Whether you're experiencing early hair loss or looking to understand the hair growth cycle better, this episode is packed with valuable insights.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, Adam, welcome back for episode three of The Truth About Hair.
So this time we're going to discuss the phases of early hair loss and also the
phases of hair growth, which is a huge topic. So there's a lot to get through.
But where should we start? I think we, for the listeners, maybe understanding
the cycle of hair would be a good area.
Okay. Well, take us through the four stages, hair growth cycle.
(00:21):
Okay. So stage one is like the antigen stage
and majority of people have like three to five a
year of growth but people that have really long hair they can
get up like seven years of growth and that's your first stage is called an
antigen stage and then there's a catagen stage which
is the second stage where it sort of breaks or by your hair
inside the follicle and this lasts for about 10-15 days and then the third stage
(00:43):
is your telogen stage which is like a resting stage where you know you can get
things traumatic or stressful that make you lose that earlier than you should
because the last stage is your exogen stage which is that's where we say we
lose 50-100 hairs a day, which is absolutely normal.
So that's your sort of your hair cycle stages.
So what is that call when people are going through like a stress event or maybe
(01:04):
like post-illness and they do start losing a lot more hair than usual?
Like what is that? That's your exogen stage.
But most people that I've seen in consultations, it's nearly 99% is always the
same. I don't know why I'm losing hair now.
I had that trauma three months ago.
Yeah. But your body has that delayed response and then it has that fallout.
(01:24):
Okay, so it's not like an immediate fallout.
It's not always, no. Sometimes it can be three, six months later and then you
go, well, I shouldn't have this stress anymore. Like I've dealt with it, right?
So yeah, so hair is a bit funny like that. So we have our telogen and exogen
stage and that's where they're just sitting there resting.
So a normal rate of loss should be 50 to 100 hairs a day for everyone.
(01:45):
I think a lot of people will come in to me and they'll say, but I'm losing like,
you know, I can see hair in the shower and I'm like, you've probably always
been losing hair in the shower because that's just normal.
It's just when you're starting to thin, that's when it's like,
oh, you worry about every hair you see. But it's actually normal to lose hair each day.
How much hair, like what percentage of your hair sort of sits in that growing
phase? Like how much of your hair should be in that antigen growth phase?
(02:08):
Well, that's most, that's 90% of your hair. So, yeah. So, you know,
in your exogen intelligence stage, you've got 10 to 15% of your hair always
sitting in that resting stage.
And so the resting stage is where it's like gone through, it's like three to
five year growth period and then it's just sitting there?
Catechins happen and you add the atellogen and then it's just sitting there
because new hair is pushing through. So old hair has to come out so new hair can push through.
(02:30):
Yeah. And that's when we get to that, which we can talk about later.
But when we're losing hair and thinning out, you know, obviously it's miniaturizing under there.
So when the hair pushes through, it's getting thinner and thinner and thinner
on each cycle. Okay. Interesting.
So let's talk about like a normal rate of hair loss. You were sort of saying
like 50 to 100 hairs per day.
Yep. So what are some of the signs of like excessive hair loss?
(02:52):
Like when you're seeing a lot more than that, like, yeah, I mean, but it can be deceiving.
So like people that have long hair,
They look like they've lost more, but it's really if you stretch it out,
it's just a better bunch than my short hair, right?
So if you're losing more than 100 hairs a day, then obviously there's something going on.
And everything relates back to, you know, I know we talk a lot about hair hacks
(03:15):
and this, that, and the other, but to me, with my expertise and experience,
it's all underneath what's happening.
Externally, it's all dead keratin. Yes, it's protein, right?
But we've got to treat what's happening internally first. us.
So going back to the shedding, you're sort of saying like 50 to 100 hairs a
day is normal, but can you have a period of like a week where you're only losing
like 20 hairs a day and then maybe you'll have a day where you just lose heat?
(03:37):
Yeah, sure. That's like a normal process? Yeah. And everyone's different.
I mean, I've never sat and counted mine, but because I've got white hair,
they're probably blending in, right?
So it's actually quite normal to lose 50 to 100 hairs a day.
I think if it's less than that, that's great.
But if it's more than that, that then obviously it's a
it's you know something's going on and is there anything that you can do
to kind of extend like the growth or
(04:00):
the resting phase of your hair growth cycle
or is that just like set genetically that's just genetically set so and it's
like i wish i could grow my hair down here but some people don't have that antigen
stage where they've got that seven year cycle they've only got a three three
year cycle so that's why they go i can never get past my shoulder length you
know so yeah yeah and that's why yeah so there's and that's just like you just, that's where you're at.
(04:22):
So like healthy hair or like healthy hair growth for one person may not look
the same for someone else.
Everyone's different. Like I mean, 35, 40,000 people have seen and every single person's different.
Yeah. Yeah. So what about like early hair loss? What are the signs of that?
How can people recognize it as something that's more than just like a shedding
event from maybe post illness or a stress event?
(04:43):
Like how do they know if it's an ongoing hair loss? I mean, the first noticeable
signs are, you know, your hair is starting to look a little bit more miniaturized.
So I always say that rule of thumb, general. Is that like length or just like the thickness?
The thickness of it. So when it's fallen out, it's come back,
but it's come back a bit thinner.
So your back and sides are really where you've got your hair,
the thickness, the same should be all over.
(05:05):
And when we start noticing hair loss, generally it's when those follicles on
top, you know, your hair is coming through, it's getting thinner.
And then it still might all be there. You might not even have a widow's peak
at that stage, but you actually still might be stage one of hair loss.
So that would be, you're seeing more scalp maybe, like that's how you would recognize that face.
Yeah, like the hair's there, which is great. And that's why treatment then is
(05:26):
phenomenal because your follicle's
not dead, it's there and then you're going to get great results.
But I think that's where...
You know, if it concerns your procrastination is the killer of hair.
Like say the law, we just think about it, but don't treat it.
You're actually going to treat it a lot cheaper than if you leave it longer,
which we could talk about later, but there's so many different treatments of hair loss.
(05:47):
Yeah. Yeah. And so what is the next phase? Let's say you don't notice that your
hair is thinning and it's miniaturizing and it's looking like a little bit finer.
Say you're just, you just literally don't notice it or you kind of.
You got a beautiful towards the end. Beautiful thick hair.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So what's the next phase? Like what happens next? It might be slow.
And everyone's different. So there's people that have fast hair loss because
genetically both sides of the family have got hair loss and it's really strong.
(06:11):
You know, they might have baldness on both sides of the family tree.
And then there's other people that might just have a slow hair loss.
So they could take 10, 15 years before they notice they've got hair loss,
you know, because they've got really beautiful thick hair.
And then it's like, oh, overnight you go, oh, maybe I'm looking a little bit
higher than I used to, you know.
Yeah, yeah. But when you've got sort of fine hair or normal to fine hair,
you will notice that sparseness a bit quicker than someone that has coarse hair or thick hair.
(06:36):
Let's say someone is like, notice that they've got that early phase of hair
loss. It's thinning, but they just don't do anything. What happens next?
Well, they'll keep thinning out. It just keeps getting worse.
It doesn't. There's no like big. It doesn't generally just stop.
All right, that's it. Like, you know, people will genetically go to where their
body's meant to go to. So, but
most people that I've seen will keep regressing and get worse over time.
(06:58):
And so is that, I suppose like one of the questions we get asked a lot as well
is that someone will, like, it's generally men as well.
So they'll say they're balding sort of at the crown of the head,
but like the front and the back seems fine.
Is that likely to continue so that that hair loss will continue across the head
until they've got no follicles or is it just like stuck to that area?
It can be stuck to that area, but generally it will meet together. So, and.
(07:22):
You know, I had, you know, in consultation, I'd say someone would sit down and
say, Adam, this is my concern.
And I'm like, well, yes, that's the obvious one. But you are thinning out on these areas as well.
Yeah. They're just, you've got coverage, which is great, which is going to get back thicker faster.
But if you were to leave that, that would get higher too. So you'd just be monitoring
(07:42):
them all the way through and just making sure that they're not just focusing on one area.
Because genetically from your temple to your crown is where we lose hair.
So I suppose like the next thing we could go through is what happens to the
actual follicle when it's experiencing like hair loss. So you're talking about miniaturization.
Like, can you talk us through like what happens to the actual follicle and the
(08:03):
process it goes through from like a healthy follicle with like nice thick hair to bald? Okay.
So I don't bore the listeners. I usually do my diagrams. You need some details.
Okay. So you got, so you're inside that follicle, You've got like a nice,
thick, strong, healthy hair that you're supposed to be born with, right?
And over a period of years with the DHT, which is dihydrotestosterone,
(08:26):
which is male-female pattern baldness, that will start to shrink underneath.
So the blood flow's, you know, DHT is miniaturizing and shrinking that follicle.
So obviously the nutrients and the proteins and everything to that hair is getting miniaturized.
So that hair will grow through thinner and then it'll fall out again and grow
back thinner and then fall back.
And eventually you go, hey, it's not there anymore. more so generally this
(08:47):
is what this all about is prevention secure or
early stages or middle stages still when
you've got coverage treat it if it bothers you if you
leave it to when it's shiny follicles are dead underneath so there is a time
period you've got to still do really well in treatment but it's different for
everyone isn't that time period yeah yeah like someone with fast hair loss if
(09:07):
they treat it quickly though they can get great fast results back because they
you know The follicle's quite strong and still underneath. But if someone's had that...
Like slow hair loss over a period of time. When they do treat it,
they'll be able to treat where they've got still great head of hair,
but on maybe say temple lines, if they've gone up, they might be follically dead there.
Okay. Interesting. So is DHT, is it produced within the follicle?
(09:30):
Yeah. So the follicle also produces that. So it's kind of producing its own demise.
Yeah. Well, it's sort of like your testosterone in blood flow gets inside the
follicle and touches an enzyme called alpha-5 reductase, and then it becomes dihydrotestosterone.
So it's what it does is it shrinks that follicle inside and the blood flow outside
is not getting the nutrients to the papilla anymore.
(09:51):
So to the bottom of the, where it feeds that follicle. Okay.
And so when it, when that's happening, just so we can sort of explore it a bit more.
So the hair follicle shrinking, does it also shorten the growth phase of that
hair? Like, does it grow?
It does it, if you say you had a five year anagen phase, if you're going through
active hair loss and that follicle is shrinking,
does it then shorten that anagen phase as well or does your anagen phase
(10:13):
stay what it was but the hair is just like
a poorer quality it will shorten it because your body's trying
to kill that follicle now instead of feeding it like its normal cycle
and you know it will start to miniaturize it a lot
and so obviously you're not going to get that three-year anagen
stage anymore it's going to shorten and that's why that cycle
of the hair fallout gets more and more and that's how you notice
(10:34):
it and that's how you know sparseness on your scalp okay so for
women maybe if they've had like a nice
long anagen phase and they've been able to grow their hair really long for them
maybe not being able to grow their hair as long could be a sign could be a sign
but most of the women that I've seen it's all been about oh my god you should
(10:55):
see how much hair I'm losing in the shower or on the floor where they didn't
notice it that's confronting as normal.
Yeah absolutely you know so it's probably everyone period where that epiphany
of hey I'm thinking something's it's not right here, is all different for everyone.
So it just depends on the person, the thickness, the length of their hair and
all that. Do they see it or notice it a lot quicker?
Okay. So are all stages of hair loss, are they all reversible?
(11:19):
Up to a point because, you know, you can reverse or you've still got hair loss
in your body. Like you can block it.
There's amazing products out there, right? Naturally, medically, surgery.
You know, there's a lot of things that we can touch on later.
But yes, up to a certain point. And a general, I'd say to the listeners,
go and have a look at a Norwood chart.
It's called a Norwood chart. It's sort of general, but it says stage one to
(11:42):
sort of stage seven, stage eight of hair loss.
And that gives you a good guide of what you should be looking for when you're
looking to do treatment.
So the quicker you get hold of it, the stage one, two, and three would be a
lot better than if you're starting it at four, five, and six.
Okay. Interesting. So I think we probably...
You know, could sort of explore the methods of fixing hair loss.
(12:02):
So you mentioned there's natural, pharmaceutical, and then surgery.
So do you want to take us through like the natural methods first?
Yeah. So Naturally would be the only brand out there. The number one brand is
Regrow. So no, just joking.
And so, you know, there is natural products that would use natural actives that
help block around DHT using natives, right?
(12:22):
I think that's important to note though, because there are a lot of like hair
loss shampoos and conditioners on the market.
But most of them don't contain a DHT-blocking ingredient.
So those ones are going to work for some forms of hair loss because,
you know, maybe- It might be stress and it's not a genetic- Like stress-related hair loss, yeah.
So that's when the DHT is not the cause of the hair loss.
Yeah. They may have some results. But if someone's actively in the process of
(12:46):
that DHT-caused hair loss, that needs like a DHT-blocking shampoo.
And these are multiple ones as well, not just one. And there's a lot of brands,
most brands, I'd say nearly all brands have one DHT blocker where Regrow has more than that.
But you also got to focus on your protein rebuilders as well.
So we need our blood amino acids. We need everything feeding that follicle again.
The efficacy of all products will come out. So forget like, you know,
(13:08):
there's Instagram and Facebook and everyone puts a lot of money to it.
They get stars to promote their brand.
The consumer is going to catch you out if that efficacy of that product is not
saying what it can do to the right people. So you need to put ingredients in
there that work and the purity of that work.
You need to make sure that you're not putting sulfates, parabens,
MEAs, DAs, silicons in there.
Why are those harmful if someone's experiencing hair loss? Why are those bad
(13:30):
ingredients? Because those ingredients are pretty standard in most hair care products.
So why are they negative? They
used to be. It's not so much as much now because people are very aware.
They can go and Google why sulfate is bad for the hair and why parabens are bad for the hair.
Because obviously when you've got treatment of hair loss, you need to make sure
that you're using all the best nutrients possible to give it the best chance to regrow, right?
And when you're using sulfates and parabens and everything, obviously they're
(13:53):
not great for the hair. They strip the hair.
And if you haven't got protein rebuilders in there, so you might have DHT blockers,
but you may not have protein rebuilders in there.
So that's your keratin, your biotin, you know, isitamide, all that sort of thing.
They're going to help promote healthy, stronger hair coming through as well. Yeah.
So that's naturally, but there is a lot of brands that come out,
(14:15):
what industry cloud knowledge do they have? Are they white labeling?
What expertise do they bring to the marketplace?
Other than like a celebrity endorsement. Yeah, exactly. And you know, that's great.
That might be their strategy, but I always feel the consumer is so bright and they know everything.
And they're so, the internet's so different to when even when I was running
(14:35):
medical centers, you know, as international consultant, people People understand
exactly what sort of products could work for them.
So, you know, after that noise dies down, the efficacy of that product has to work.
So outside of like shampoo and conditioner, so the hair care aspect,
what are the other like natural practices or tools that you can use to encourage like hair growth?
(14:58):
So, you know, you've also got your tonics and your hair oils and all that.
So, and outside of that, your tools, well, you've got your derma rollers,
which, you know, we use as well.
And that helps circulation, blood flow, collagen, everything, which is important.
There's low level laser lights. So you can get, you know, the hair hats,
like, you know, those laser hats. Like the red, red lights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my previous career, we used those and, you know,
there wasn't evidence that didn't work, but there wasn't so much evidence that did work.
(15:22):
But what you would be minimally doing is helping blood flow.
Yeah. So anything that helps blood flow, massaging. Can you explain why that's
important just because people may not know? Like why is the blood flow coming up really important?
So blood flow is the key of what grows your hair. So blood amino acids is your
keratin that makes your hair grow. So it's important to have good circulation. dilation.
So, and when we have DHT, we're having that shrinkage, but we also have that
(15:44):
blood flow is not coming to that follicle much.
Because you see a lot of like recommendation videos for people for optimal hair
growth is like scalp massage. So that is like a valid practice.
Yeah, absolutely. Like definitely massaging your hair or having tools that do the massaging.
Absolutely. It's important, but it's not going to be the only thing.
(16:04):
It's like one piece. Yeah, exactly. So there's little jigsaw pots.
I knew to put them all together, but But it's not, it doesn't have to be confusing.
So natural would work for those first couple of stages because,
and, you know, even advanced stages naturally still will clean the scalp where
you've got back and sides hair.
And, you know, because a lot of people that have hair loss, they'll have scalp
conditions that go with it as well.
(16:25):
So it's important even if you're too far advanced, but you don't want to do
surgery, you don't want to take medication.
Well, you should be using good natural products that clean that scalp as well.
Because they're also going to help you keep the hair you have,
right? Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't progress further. So, you may have some
like hair thinning or baldness, but if you look after the rest of your follicles,
it's going to keep them healthy.
(16:45):
Exactly. And then there's medical, which, you know, my previous career,
we used a lot of medication for treatment.
It works like, you know, minoxidil and finasteride.
And to a degree, we didn't use this one, but it came out after I left. It was dutasteride.
And they're great products. A lot of, I can't stand the brands that get out
there and they're natural like us, but they'll go, you know,
(17:07):
don't touch medication and don't do this. Like they're partly right.
Look, get hold of hair loss and use naturally is the best approach you can do,
right? Because you don't have to put medical in front. For some people, it's just too far.
Exactly. They're too far down the line. And you shouldn't bag it because finasteride
and minoxidil has had great results for a lot of people.
Just a lot of people don't want to stay on medication. And that's why natural,
(17:28):
and there's a lot of people that are now today, because they They only had medical,
like, say, 10, 15 years ago. Yep.
And they're now doing natural and medical. So they're doing that holistic approach,
which is fantastic. Yeah. And there's people today that...
Very educated and aware so they get a hold of hair loss. They don't have to go to medication.
Medications, you know, talk to your doctor, but if you're the right candidate
(17:49):
to use medication and you're advanced and that medication is going to work, why wouldn't you use it?
Just be aware that medication does carry side effects.
I feel like, you know, 10, 15 years ago, there was a perception that people
felt like you could only go surgery or like really intense kind of medical procedures
or like, you know, medication to reverse it.
Whereas I think there is a lot
(18:09):
more education generally for people in hair care and hair growth. Yeah.
Like we would have, I would have like someone come in and see me on a very regular
daily basis. Adam, I want surgery.
Because surgery is a permanent fix, right? But you've got to understand surgery is invasive.
And surgery, don't get me wrong. I love surgery. I'm a fan of surgery.
Yeah. Because there's amazing techniques and there's amazing Australian doctors, by the way.
(18:31):
Can you maybe take us through like what is involved? because I think
it's one of those things people know that you can have hair transplant surgery
but what is hair transplant surgery like
what is involved and what is what are they actually doing well I'll
go I'll go to my point where you know surgery was really good and it is a permanent
but what are you doing for the rest of your hair so someone said if you sat
in front of me and you're thinning out but you had lost your temple lines for
(18:54):
example I'm just making this simple and but you've got beautiful senator back
here I'd say right okay let's treat your hair for the first First 12 months,
naturally or medically doesn't matter. So let's say we're just doing it naturally.
So we're keeping what you've got because if you do surgery, great.
We're transplanting here, but what's going to happen to the rest of your hair?
It's going to keep regressing.
So first thing I always did is treat people and grow back what they could.
(19:17):
And sometimes it would shock you. They'd grow hair where you'd least expect
because every single person is different.
So I would get better results with some people after the first 8 to 12 months
just using natural or medical. cool.
And then they would do, then their surgery, A, might have been less.
They don't have to do as many transplants because hair's growing back where they didn't expect it.
Or they got the best of both worlds. They kept all the hair,
(19:38):
they thickened up where they did have it.
But they, now the surgery, because you really only want to do surgery once.
You know, there's, and there's different types of surgery technique.
Before when I was doing surgery, we would, it was, you know,
FUT. So a follicular unit transplant.
So it was taking a dissection of your scalp. You'd.
To say 2,000, 3,000 follicles, and they were singly injected.
(20:00):
So the technique when we would do it was far events than 10 years earlier than
that. So there was mini grafts and plug grafts that people talk about them.
Hair plugs, yeah. Yeah. The only reason they come up with that,
yeah, everyone says hair plugs because they see that old surgery.
Now, the hair plugs was because our follicle has two or three hairs grow out
of each follicle, and then the equipment wasn't that fine.
So they'd put a hole in the scalp, and then they'd put two or three follicles
(20:23):
in, but then they'd have 10 hairs, and then a gap, 10 hairs,
and a gap. So that made it look like doll's hair.
That was what I used to get told all the time. It looks like doll's hair.
And so that was the multigrass. And then there was minigrass.
But again, the tool and the equipment wasn't as fine. So it looked unnatural.
It was like two chunked together.
And then there was single follicles, which is fantastic. And today they're even
(20:46):
doing FUE. So it's follicular unit extraction.
So they're getting one follicle back of your scalp and injecting into the hair.
So instead of doing that whole dissection, internal and external is stitched
and then transplanting all in one go, there's pros and cons of both.
So the FUT, you can get more transplants done in the one sitting where the extraction
(21:07):
will take a longer process.
People have to do their own research when they go to these clinics that do the
surgery and find out what are the benefits of pros and cons of both of those type of surgeries.
You can't tell people today that who even had surgery is that amazing.
Yeah, no, I've definitely seen some before and afters from people and it is
incredible, isn't it? Yeah.
So, like, 20 years ago, you could say someone's had surgery,
(21:30):
right? Yeah, it was obvious.
But today, so I'm a big fan of all different parts of this industry because,
you know, it's all different walks of life.
So, you know, if someone's at an early stage, natural is great for them and,
you know, mid-stage, natural and medical.
Medical on later stages and then surgery, you know, when it's too far advanced.
(21:50):
Another thing that I just thought of that I think is relevant to the conversation
that I've always wanted to sort of talk to you about, especially on the podcast,
is one thing you've always been really passionate about is like honesty and transparency.
So in a lot of our website copy and our product descriptions and marketing,
it's always, you know, 90 days before you see a difference.
So it has to be like a three month before you can really see like a big difference in active hair loss.
(22:14):
But you see a lot of other brands sort of saying like, you know,
within two weeks, within 30 days, you know, like within like two months,
my hair grew like a whole foot, which just isn't physically possible. You see those before.
You know, and afters, like after one month, my hair grew this much,
but it's just, it's just not physically possible. So there's not,
obviously not genuine before and afters in that timeframe.
But can you talk us through why you're, you are so passionate about saying that
(22:37):
sort of like 90 days to 12 months?
Because some, some people for some hair loss, it is a 12 month process, isn't it?
Yeah. Well, it goes back to my training when I first started in the hair industry.
Honesty is the best policy. You should always be honest. There's a lot of brands.
I'm I'm not a person who likes bag brands, but there's a lot of brands out there
that sell a result that's not possible.
(22:58):
And all you're going to do is actually deflate that consumer.
Okay. So if you give someone a longer timeline than what they should actually
notice it, like say I say 90 days, and you've seen it, Chris,
a lot of people writing, go, six weeks, I've got, isn't that awesome?
They didn't want that. You'd rather have someone come to you and say,
your products work a lot faster than then give them false hope because it might
(23:20):
take that whole 90 days and then it works for them or it might be six weeks
later because they've already had a fallout.
So I understand the hair cycle so I know how long it actually takes.
Yeah, because if they've just had a massive fallout and then they start using
product, like four weeks is not long enough to actually like have visible.
It's got to grow back through and all that. So, you know, and 90 days is the
start, you know, and it's up to 12 to 18 months is when you're probably getting
(23:41):
the best results and then there's a maintenance as well.
And it just becomes our normal routine, you know, So like we take a vitamin tablet, it feels good.
It's not hard with products out there today that it's just a normal routine
for you. Yeah, and a lot of the times it's just a swap from that.
Previously like what you're using already you just swap it out i suppose like
one of the things i'd love for you to go into a bit more detail about is like
why it takes that long and i i know you've spoken to me before about it it's
(24:05):
because if your hair's going through that miniaturization phase.
It's not just one growth cycle for that hair to get back to what it should be
no it's like several growths yeah so you you need like the fallout and grow
back like three and four times before it gets back to its healthy strong like
follicle shaft again so in you know hair through the follicle shaft.
That first lot of hair, I think people get excited. They can see,
(24:26):
hey, this product's working.
Great. And that's that first bit of confidence for them. But then it takes a
period where it's going to have to fall out and grow back thicker and stronger each time.
It's like, you know how you were saying when you're going through active hair
loss and that growth, that anagen phase shortens each time. Does it lengthen each time as well?
It goes back to where your body's starting to produce a longer period of growth
because it's getting fed now and it's getting blocked. It's causing those problems.
(24:48):
And so it allows it to feed its nutrients again. So, you know,
it goes from miniaturizing, getting small, small, to going back,
slowly getting back thicker into the follicle, into the scalp again.
We've talked a lot about sort of like DHT caused hair loss today,
which is like typically female and male genetic pattern baldness.
Hair loss like telogen effluvium, is that right?
(25:09):
Yeah, yeah. Is that right? And like postpartum hair loss and stress-induced
hair loss, are they also caused by DHT or is it something else that causes that?
So the telogen effluvium and all that is, you know, stress-related hair loss.
So, that's when you're losing your exogen stage or your telogen stage of your cycle.
So, not so much genetically affected like a cause.
Like I say, the signs of if you know you've got genetic is temples to crown
(25:31):
is where you should be thinning.
Where you're shredding, if you're losing around your back and sides,
it might be a diet problem you've got going on right now.
It might be just like a death in the family and three months later, you just shred all over.
And we've seen that a lot, yeah. And then so, that's not genetic, right?
Because it's not temple to crown. so that's just a
general for you for the listeners okay great well look i think i've covered
(25:53):
everything i wanted to go through today is there anything else you wanted to
touch on on this topic before we finish up i think you know i don't want to
bore people but i think you know you've asked a lot of great questions yeah
yeah we've got a lot more to go through as well great all right well thanks adam.
All right, Adam, welcome back for episode three of The Truth About Hair.
So this time we're going to discuss the phases of early hair loss and also the
phases of hair growth, which is a huge topic. So there's a lot to get through.
But where should we start? I think we, for the listeners, maybe understanding
the cycle of hair would be a good area.
Okay. Well, take us through the four stages, hair growth cycle.
(00:21):
Okay. So stage one is like the antigen stage
and majority of people have like three to five a
year of growth but people that have really long hair they can
get up like seven years of growth and that's your first stage is called an
antigen stage and then there's a catagen stage which
is the second stage where it sort of breaks or by your hair
inside the follicle and this lasts for about 10-15 days and then the third stage
(00:43):
is your telogen stage which is like a resting stage where you know you can get
things traumatic or stressful that make you lose that earlier than you should
because the last stage is your exogen stage which is that's where we say we
lose 50-100 hairs a day, which is absolutely normal.
So that's your sort of your hair cycle stages.
So what is that call when people are going through like a stress event or maybe
(01:04):
like post-illness and they do start losing a lot more hair than usual?
Like what is that? That's your exogen stage.
But most people that I've seen in consultations, it's nearly 99% is always the
same. I don't know why I'm losing hair now.
I had that trauma three months ago.
Yeah. But your body has that delayed response and then it has that fallout.
(01:24):
Okay, so it's not like an immediate fallout.
It's not always, no. Sometimes it can be three, six months later and then you
go, well, I shouldn't have this stress anymore. Like I've dealt with it, right?
So yeah, so hair is a bit funny like that. So we have our telogen and exogen
stage and that's where they're just sitting there resting.
So a normal rate of loss should be 50 to 100 hairs a day for everyone.
(01:45):
I think a lot of people will come in to me and they'll say, but I'm losing like,
you know, I can see hair in the shower and I'm like, you've probably always
been losing hair in the shower because that's just normal.
It's just when you're starting to thin, that's when it's like,
oh, you worry about every hair you see. But it's actually normal to lose hair each day.
How much hair, like what percentage of your hair sort of sits in that growing
phase? Like how much of your hair should be in that antigen growth phase?
(02:08):
Well, that's most, that's 90% of your hair. So, yeah. So, you know,
in your exogen intelligence stage, you've got 10 to 15% of your hair always
sitting in that resting stage.
And so the resting stage is where it's like gone through, it's like three to
five year growth period and then it's just sitting there?
Catechins happen and you add the atellogen and then it's just sitting there
because new hair is pushing through. So old hair has to come out so new hair can push through.
(02:30):
Yeah. And that's when we get to that, which we can talk about later.
But when we're losing hair and thinning out, you know, obviously it's miniaturizing under there.
So when the hair pushes through, it's getting thinner and thinner and thinner
on each cycle. Okay. Interesting.
So let's talk about like a normal rate of hair loss. You were sort of saying
like 50 to 100 hairs per day.
Yep. So what are some of the signs of like excessive hair loss?
(02:52):
Like when you're seeing a lot more than that, like, yeah, I mean, but it can be deceiving.
So like people that have long hair,
They look like they've lost more, but it's really if you stretch it out,
it's just a better bunch than my short hair, right?
So if you're losing more than 100 hairs a day, then obviously there's something going on.
And everything relates back to, you know, I know we talk a lot about hair hacks
(03:15):
and this, that, and the other, but to me, with my expertise and experience,
it's all underneath what's happening.
Externally, it's all dead keratin. Yes, it's protein, right?
But we've got to treat what's happening internally first. us.
So going back to the shedding, you're sort of saying like 50 to 100 hairs a
day is normal, but can you have a period of like a week where you're only losing
like 20 hairs a day and then maybe you'll have a day where you just lose heat?
(03:37):
Yeah, sure. That's like a normal process? Yeah. And everyone's different.
I mean, I've never sat and counted mine, but because I've got white hair,
they're probably blending in, right?
So it's actually quite normal to lose 50 to 100 hairs a day.
I think if it's less than that, that's great.
But if it's more than that, that then obviously it's a
it's you know something's going on and is there anything that you can do
to kind of extend like the growth or
(04:00):
the resting phase of your hair growth cycle
or is that just like set genetically that's just genetically set so and it's
like i wish i could grow my hair down here but some people don't have that antigen
stage where they've got that seven year cycle they've only got a three three
year cycle so that's why they go i can never get past my shoulder length you
know so yeah yeah and that's why yeah so there's and that's just like you just, that's where you're at.
(04:22):
So like healthy hair or like healthy hair growth for one person may not look
the same for someone else.
Everyone's different. Like I mean, 35, 40,000 people have seen and every single person's different.
Yeah. Yeah. So what about like early hair loss? What are the signs of that?
How can people recognize it as something that's more than just like a shedding
event from maybe post illness or a stress event?
(04:43):
Like how do they know if it's an ongoing hair loss? I mean, the first noticeable
signs are, you know, your hair is starting to look a little bit more miniaturized.
So I always say that rule of thumb, general. Is that like length or just like the thickness?
The thickness of it. So when it's fallen out, it's come back,
but it's come back a bit thinner.
So your back and sides are really where you've got your hair,
the thickness, the same should be all over.
(05:05):
And when we start noticing hair loss, generally it's when those follicles on
top, you know, your hair is coming through, it's getting thinner.
And then it still might all be there. You might not even have a widow's peak
at that stage, but you actually still might be stage one of hair loss.
So that would be, you're seeing more scalp maybe, like that's how you would recognize that face.
Yeah, like the hair's there, which is great. And that's why treatment then is
(05:26):
phenomenal because your follicle's
not dead, it's there and then you're going to get great results.
But I think that's where...
You know, if it concerns your procrastination is the killer of hair.
Like say the law, we just think about it, but don't treat it.
You're actually going to treat it a lot cheaper than if you leave it longer,
which we could talk about later, but there's so many different treatments of hair loss.
(05:47):
Yeah. Yeah. And so what is the next phase? Let's say you don't notice that your
hair is thinning and it's miniaturizing and it's looking like a little bit finer.
Say you're just, you just literally don't notice it or you kind of.
You got a beautiful towards the end. Beautiful thick hair.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So what's the next phase? Like what happens next? It might be slow.
And everyone's different. So there's people that have fast hair loss because
genetically both sides of the family have got hair loss and it's really strong.
(06:11):
You know, they might have baldness on both sides of the family tree.
And then there's other people that might just have a slow hair loss.
So they could take 10, 15 years before they notice they've got hair loss,
you know, because they've got really beautiful thick hair.
And then it's like, oh, overnight you go, oh, maybe I'm looking a little bit
higher than I used to, you know.
Yeah, yeah. But when you've got sort of fine hair or normal to fine hair,
you will notice that sparseness a bit quicker than someone that has coarse hair or thick hair.
(06:36):
Let's say someone is like, notice that they've got that early phase of hair
loss. It's thinning, but they just don't do anything. What happens next?
Well, they'll keep thinning out. It just keeps getting worse.
It doesn't. There's no like big. It doesn't generally just stop.
All right, that's it. Like, you know, people will genetically go to where their
body's meant to go to. So, but
most people that I've seen will keep regressing and get worse over time.
(06:58):
And so is that, I suppose like one of the questions we get asked a lot as well
is that someone will, like, it's generally men as well.
So they'll say they're balding sort of at the crown of the head,
but like the front and the back seems fine.
Is that likely to continue so that that hair loss will continue across the head
until they've got no follicles or is it just like stuck to that area?
It can be stuck to that area, but generally it will meet together. So, and.
(07:22):
You know, I had, you know, in consultation, I'd say someone would sit down and
say, Adam, this is my concern.
And I'm like, well, yes, that's the obvious one. But you are thinning out on these areas as well.
Yeah. They're just, you've got coverage, which is great, which is going to get back thicker faster.
But if you were to leave that, that would get higher too. So you'd just be monitoring
(07:42):
them all the way through and just making sure that they're not just focusing on one area.
Because genetically from your temple to your crown is where we lose hair.
So I suppose like the next thing we could go through is what happens to the
actual follicle when it's experiencing like hair loss. So you're talking about miniaturization.
Like, can you talk us through like what happens to the actual follicle and the
(08:03):
process it goes through from like a healthy follicle with like nice thick hair to bald? Okay.
So I don't bore the listeners. I usually do my diagrams. You need some details.
Okay. So you got, so you're inside that follicle, You've got like a nice,
thick, strong, healthy hair that you're supposed to be born with, right?
And over a period of years with the DHT, which is dihydrotestosterone,
(08:26):
which is male-female pattern baldness, that will start to shrink underneath.
So the blood flow's, you know, DHT is miniaturizing and shrinking that follicle.
So obviously the nutrients and the proteins and everything to that hair is getting miniaturized.
So that hair will grow through thinner and then it'll fall out again and grow
back thinner and then fall back.
And eventually you go, hey, it's not there anymore. more so generally this
(08:47):
is what this all about is prevention secure or
early stages or middle stages still when
you've got coverage treat it if it bothers you if you
leave it to when it's shiny follicles are dead underneath so there is a time
period you've got to still do really well in treatment but it's different for
everyone isn't that time period yeah yeah like someone with fast hair loss if
(09:07):
they treat it quickly though they can get great fast results back because they
you know The follicle's quite strong and still underneath. But if someone's had that...
Like slow hair loss over a period of time. When they do treat it,
they'll be able to treat where they've got still great head of hair,
but on maybe say temple lines, if they've gone up, they might be follically dead there.
Okay. Interesting. So is DHT, is it produced within the follicle?
(09:30):
Yeah. So the follicle also produces that. So it's kind of producing its own demise.
Yeah. Well, it's sort of like your testosterone in blood flow gets inside the
follicle and touches an enzyme called alpha-5 reductase, and then it becomes dihydrotestosterone.
So it's what it does is it shrinks that follicle inside and the blood flow outside
is not getting the nutrients to the papilla anymore.
(09:51):
So to the bottom of the, where it feeds that follicle. Okay.
And so when it, when that's happening, just so we can sort of explore it a bit more.
So the hair follicle shrinking, does it also shorten the growth phase of that
hair? Like, does it grow?
It does it, if you say you had a five year anagen phase, if you're going through
active hair loss and that follicle is shrinking,
does it then shorten that anagen phase as well or does your anagen phase
(10:13):
stay what it was but the hair is just like
a poorer quality it will shorten it because your body's trying
to kill that follicle now instead of feeding it like its normal cycle
and you know it will start to miniaturize it a lot
and so obviously you're not going to get that three-year anagen
stage anymore it's going to shorten and that's why that cycle
of the hair fallout gets more and more and that's how you notice
(10:34):
it and that's how you know sparseness on your scalp okay so for
women maybe if they've had like a nice
long anagen phase and they've been able to grow their hair really long for them
maybe not being able to grow their hair as long could be a sign could be a sign
but most of the women that I've seen it's all been about oh my god you should
(10:55):
see how much hair I'm losing in the shower or on the floor where they didn't
notice it that's confronting as normal.
Yeah absolutely you know so it's probably everyone period where that epiphany
of hey I'm thinking something's it's not right here, is all different for everyone.
So it just depends on the person, the thickness, the length of their hair and
all that. Do they see it or notice it a lot quicker?
Okay. So are all stages of hair loss, are they all reversible?
(11:19):
Up to a point because, you know, you can reverse or you've still got hair loss
in your body. Like you can block it.
There's amazing products out there, right? Naturally, medically, surgery.
You know, there's a lot of things that we can touch on later.
But yes, up to a certain point. And a general, I'd say to the listeners,
go and have a look at a Norwood chart.
It's called a Norwood chart. It's sort of general, but it says stage one to
(11:42):
sort of stage seven, stage eight of hair loss.
And that gives you a good guide of what you should be looking for when you're
looking to do treatment.
So the quicker you get hold of it, the stage one, two, and three would be a
lot better than if you're starting it at four, five, and six.
Okay. Interesting. So I think we probably...
You know, could sort of explore the methods of fixing hair loss.
(12:02):
So you mentioned there's natural, pharmaceutical, and then surgery.
So do you want to take us through like the natural methods first?
Yeah. So Naturally would be the only brand out there. The number one brand is
Regrow. So no, just joking.
And so, you know, there is natural products that would use natural actives that
help block around DHT using natives, right?
(12:22):
I think that's important to note though, because there are a lot of like hair
loss shampoos and conditioners on the market.
But most of them don't contain a DHT-blocking ingredient.
So those ones are going to work for some forms of hair loss because,
you know, maybe- It might be stress and it's not a genetic- Like stress-related hair loss, yeah.
So that's when the DHT is not the cause of the hair loss.
Yeah. They may have some results. But if someone's actively in the process of
(12:46):
that DHT-caused hair loss, that needs like a DHT-blocking shampoo.
And these are multiple ones as well, not just one. And there's a lot of brands,
most brands, I'd say nearly all brands have one DHT blocker where Regrow has more than that.
But you also got to focus on your protein rebuilders as well.
So we need our blood amino acids. We need everything feeding that follicle again.
The efficacy of all products will come out. So forget like, you know,
(13:08):
there's Instagram and Facebook and everyone puts a lot of money to it.
They get stars to promote their brand.
The consumer is going to catch you out if that efficacy of that product is not
saying what it can do to the right people. So you need to put ingredients in
there that work and the purity of that work.
You need to make sure that you're not putting sulfates, parabens,
MEAs, DAs, silicons in there.
Why are those harmful if someone's experiencing hair loss? Why are those bad
(13:30):
ingredients? Because those ingredients are pretty standard in most hair care products.
So why are they negative? They
used to be. It's not so much as much now because people are very aware.
They can go and Google why sulfate is bad for the hair and why parabens are bad for the hair.
Because obviously when you've got treatment of hair loss, you need to make sure
that you're using all the best nutrients possible to give it the best chance to regrow, right?
And when you're using sulfates and parabens and everything, obviously they're
(13:53):
not great for the hair. They strip the hair.
And if you haven't got protein rebuilders in there, so you might have DHT blockers,
but you may not have protein rebuilders in there.
So that's your keratin, your biotin, you know, isitamide, all that sort of thing.
They're going to help promote healthy, stronger hair coming through as well. Yeah.
So that's naturally, but there is a lot of brands that come out,
(14:15):
what industry cloud knowledge do they have? Are they white labeling?
What expertise do they bring to the marketplace?
Other than like a celebrity endorsement. Yeah, exactly. And you know, that's great.
That might be their strategy, but I always feel the consumer is so bright and they know everything.
And they're so, the internet's so different to when even when I was running
(14:35):
medical centers, you know, as international consultant, people People understand
exactly what sort of products could work for them.
So, you know, after that noise dies down, the efficacy of that product has to work.
So outside of like shampoo and conditioner, so the hair care aspect,
what are the other like natural practices or tools that you can use to encourage like hair growth?
(14:58):
So, you know, you've also got your tonics and your hair oils and all that.
So, and outside of that, your tools, well, you've got your derma rollers,
which, you know, we use as well.
And that helps circulation, blood flow, collagen, everything, which is important.
There's low level laser lights. So you can get, you know, the hair hats,
like, you know, those laser hats. Like the red, red lights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my previous career, we used those and, you know,
there wasn't evidence that didn't work, but there wasn't so much evidence that did work.
(15:22):
But what you would be minimally doing is helping blood flow.
Yeah. So anything that helps blood flow, massaging. Can you explain why that's
important just because people may not know? Like why is the blood flow coming up really important?
So blood flow is the key of what grows your hair. So blood amino acids is your
keratin that makes your hair grow. So it's important to have good circulation. dilation.
So, and when we have DHT, we're having that shrinkage, but we also have that
(15:44):
blood flow is not coming to that follicle much.
Because you see a lot of like recommendation videos for people for optimal hair
growth is like scalp massage. So that is like a valid practice.
Yeah, absolutely. Like definitely massaging your hair or having tools that do the massaging.
Absolutely. It's important, but it's not going to be the only thing.
(16:04):
It's like one piece. Yeah, exactly. So there's little jigsaw pots.
I knew to put them all together, but But it's not, it doesn't have to be confusing.
So natural would work for those first couple of stages because,
and, you know, even advanced stages naturally still will clean the scalp where
you've got back and sides hair.
And, you know, because a lot of people that have hair loss, they'll have scalp
conditions that go with it as well.
(16:25):
So it's important even if you're too far advanced, but you don't want to do
surgery, you don't want to take medication.
Well, you should be using good natural products that clean that scalp as well.
Because they're also going to help you keep the hair you have,
right? Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't progress further. So, you may have some
like hair thinning or baldness, but if you look after the rest of your follicles,
it's going to keep them healthy.
(16:45):
Exactly. And then there's medical, which, you know, my previous career,
we used a lot of medication for treatment.
It works like, you know, minoxidil and finasteride.
And to a degree, we didn't use this one, but it came out after I left. It was dutasteride.
And they're great products. A lot of, I can't stand the brands that get out
there and they're natural like us, but they'll go, you know,
(17:07):
don't touch medication and don't do this. Like they're partly right.
Look, get hold of hair loss and use naturally is the best approach you can do,
right? Because you don't have to put medical in front. For some people, it's just too far.
Exactly. They're too far down the line. And you shouldn't bag it because finasteride
and minoxidil has had great results for a lot of people.
Just a lot of people don't want to stay on medication. And that's why natural,
(17:28):
and there's a lot of people that are now today, because they They only had medical,
like, say, 10, 15 years ago. Yep.
And they're now doing natural and medical. So they're doing that holistic approach,
which is fantastic. Yeah. And there's people today that...
Very educated and aware so they get a hold of hair loss. They don't have to go to medication.
Medications, you know, talk to your doctor, but if you're the right candidate
(17:49):
to use medication and you're advanced and that medication is going to work, why wouldn't you use it?
Just be aware that medication does carry side effects.
I feel like, you know, 10, 15 years ago, there was a perception that people
felt like you could only go surgery or like really intense kind of medical procedures
or like, you know, medication to reverse it.
Whereas I think there is a lot
(18:09):
more education generally for people in hair care and hair growth. Yeah.
Like we would have, I would have like someone come in and see me on a very regular
daily basis. Adam, I want surgery.
Because surgery is a permanent fix, right? But you've got to understand surgery is invasive.
And surgery, don't get me wrong. I love surgery. I'm a fan of surgery.
Yeah. Because there's amazing techniques and there's amazing Australian doctors, by the way.
(18:31):
Can you maybe take us through like what is involved? because I think
it's one of those things people know that you can have hair transplant surgery
but what is hair transplant surgery like
what is involved and what is what are they actually doing well I'll
go I'll go to my point where you know surgery was really good and it is a permanent
but what are you doing for the rest of your hair so someone said if you sat
in front of me and you're thinning out but you had lost your temple lines for
(18:54):
example I'm just making this simple and but you've got beautiful senator back
here I'd say right okay let's treat your hair for the first First 12 months,
naturally or medically doesn't matter. So let's say we're just doing it naturally.
So we're keeping what you've got because if you do surgery, great.
We're transplanting here, but what's going to happen to the rest of your hair?
It's going to keep regressing.
So first thing I always did is treat people and grow back what they could.
(19:17):
And sometimes it would shock you. They'd grow hair where you'd least expect
because every single person is different.
So I would get better results with some people after the first 8 to 12 months
just using natural or medical. cool.
And then they would do, then their surgery, A, might have been less.
They don't have to do as many transplants because hair's growing back where they didn't expect it.
Or they got the best of both worlds. They kept all the hair,
(19:38):
they thickened up where they did have it.
But they, now the surgery, because you really only want to do surgery once.
You know, there's, and there's different types of surgery technique.
Before when I was doing surgery, we would, it was, you know,
FUT. So a follicular unit transplant.
So it was taking a dissection of your scalp. You'd.
To say 2,000, 3,000 follicles, and they were singly injected.
(20:00):
So the technique when we would do it was far events than 10 years earlier than
that. So there was mini grafts and plug grafts that people talk about them.
Hair plugs, yeah. Yeah. The only reason they come up with that,
yeah, everyone says hair plugs because they see that old surgery.
Now, the hair plugs was because our follicle has two or three hairs grow out
of each follicle, and then the equipment wasn't that fine.
So they'd put a hole in the scalp, and then they'd put two or three follicles
(20:23):
in, but then they'd have 10 hairs, and then a gap, 10 hairs,
and a gap. So that made it look like doll's hair.
That was what I used to get told all the time. It looks like doll's hair.
And so that was the multigrass. And then there was minigrass.
But again, the tool and the equipment wasn't as fine. So it looked unnatural.
It was like two chunked together.
And then there was single follicles, which is fantastic. And today they're even
(20:46):
doing FUE. So it's follicular unit extraction.
So they're getting one follicle back of your scalp and injecting into the hair.
So instead of doing that whole dissection, internal and external is stitched
and then transplanting all in one go, there's pros and cons of both.
So the FUT, you can get more transplants done in the one sitting where the extraction
(21:07):
will take a longer process.
People have to do their own research when they go to these clinics that do the
surgery and find out what are the benefits of pros and cons of both of those type of surgeries.
You can't tell people today that who even had surgery is that amazing.
Yeah, no, I've definitely seen some before and afters from people and it is
incredible, isn't it? Yeah.
So, like, 20 years ago, you could say someone's had surgery,
(21:30):
right? Yeah, it was obvious.
But today, so I'm a big fan of all different parts of this industry because,
you know, it's all different walks of life.
So, you know, if someone's at an early stage, natural is great for them and,
you know, mid-stage, natural and medical.
Medical on later stages and then surgery, you know, when it's too far advanced.
(21:50):
Another thing that I just thought of that I think is relevant to the conversation
that I've always wanted to sort of talk to you about, especially on the podcast,
is one thing you've always been really passionate about is like honesty and transparency.
So in a lot of our website copy and our product descriptions and marketing,
it's always, you know, 90 days before you see a difference.
So it has to be like a three month before you can really see like a big difference in active hair loss.
(22:14):
But you see a lot of other brands sort of saying like, you know,
within two weeks, within 30 days, you know, like within like two months,
my hair grew like a whole foot, which just isn't physically possible. You see those before.
You know, and afters, like after one month, my hair grew this much,
but it's just, it's just not physically possible. So there's not,
obviously not genuine before and afters in that timeframe.
But can you talk us through why you're, you are so passionate about saying that
(22:37):
sort of like 90 days to 12 months?
Because some, some people for some hair loss, it is a 12 month process, isn't it?
Yeah. Well, it goes back to my training when I first started in the hair industry.
Honesty is the best policy. You should always be honest. There's a lot of brands.
I'm I'm not a person who likes bag brands, but there's a lot of brands out there
that sell a result that's not possible.
(22:58):
And all you're going to do is actually deflate that consumer.
Okay. So if you give someone a longer timeline than what they should actually
notice it, like say I say 90 days, and you've seen it, Chris,
a lot of people writing, go, six weeks, I've got, isn't that awesome?
They didn't want that. You'd rather have someone come to you and say,
your products work a lot faster than then give them false hope because it might
(23:20):
take that whole 90 days and then it works for them or it might be six weeks
later because they've already had a fallout.
So I understand the hair cycle so I know how long it actually takes.
Yeah, because if they've just had a massive fallout and then they start using
product, like four weeks is not long enough to actually like have visible.
It's got to grow back through and all that. So, you know, and 90 days is the
start, you know, and it's up to 12 to 18 months is when you're probably getting
(23:41):
the best results and then there's a maintenance as well.
And it just becomes our normal routine, you know, So like we take a vitamin tablet, it feels good.
It's not hard with products out there today that it's just a normal routine
for you. Yeah, and a lot of the times it's just a swap from that.
Previously like what you're using already you just swap it out i suppose like
one of the things i'd love for you to go into a bit more detail about is like
why it takes that long and i i know you've spoken to me before about it it's
(24:05):
because if your hair's going through that miniaturization phase.
It's not just one growth cycle for that hair to get back to what it should be
no it's like several growths yeah so you you need like the fallout and grow
back like three and four times before it gets back to its healthy strong like
follicle shaft again so in you know hair through the follicle shaft.
That first lot of hair, I think people get excited. They can see,
(24:26):
hey, this product's working.
Great. And that's that first bit of confidence for them. But then it takes a
period where it's going to have to fall out and grow back thicker and stronger each time.
It's like, you know how you were saying when you're going through active hair
loss and that growth, that anagen phase shortens each time. Does it lengthen each time as well?
It goes back to where your body's starting to produce a longer period of growth
because it's getting fed now and it's getting blocked. It's causing those problems.
(24:48):
And so it allows it to feed its nutrients again. So, you know,
it goes from miniaturizing, getting small, small, to going back,
slowly getting back thicker into the follicle, into the scalp again.
We've talked a lot about sort of like DHT caused hair loss today,
which is like typically female and male genetic pattern baldness.
Hair loss like telogen effluvium, is that right?
(25:09):
Yeah, yeah. Is that right? And like postpartum hair loss and stress-induced
hair loss, are they also caused by DHT or is it something else that causes that?
So the telogen effluvium and all that is, you know, stress-related hair loss.
So, that's when you're losing your exogen stage or your telogen stage of your cycle.
So, not so much genetically affected like a cause.
Like I say, the signs of if you know you've got genetic is temples to crown
(25:31):
is where you should be thinning.
Where you're shredding, if you're losing around your back and sides,
it might be a diet problem you've got going on right now.
It might be just like a death in the family and three months later, you just shred all over.
And we've seen that a lot, yeah. And then so, that's not genetic, right?
Because it's not temple to crown. so that's just a
general for you for the listeners okay great well look i think i've covered
(25:53):
everything i wanted to go through today is there anything else you wanted to
touch on on this topic before we finish up i think you know i don't want to
bore people but i think you know you've asked a lot of great questions yeah
yeah we've got a lot more to go through as well great all right well thanks adam.
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