The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Network Marketing

Welcome to another episode of The Two Charlotte's Spill the Tea! In this exciting installment, we dive deep into the world of network marketing, MLM, and direct sales. Join us as we explore the evolution of this industry, from the social Avon parties of the past to the highly digital landscape of today. We'll discuss the many benefits, including personal development, training, and the invaluable friendships formed along the way.

However, it's not all rosy; we'll also tackle the challenges and criticisms, such as the pressures, comparisons, and even the ugly side of online trolling and bullying. Whether you're a seasoned network marketer, a newbie, or just curious about the hype, this episode offers insights that will resonate with everyone.

Don't miss out on this thought-provoking discussion. Tune in, and be sure to share your thoughts and experiences with us!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Two Charlottesville Dirty.
We have a really exciting episode to get into today and I'm sure it's one that
a lot of people are going to relate to, probably have an opinion on as well.
So tonight's episode is about network marketing, MLM, direct sales,

(00:21):
whatever you want to call it.
And we want to talk about the good, the bad and the ugly of this because it's
something that just has been coming up a lot in our lives at the moment is something
that myself and Charlotte have been talking about quite a lot recently.
So I'm going to pass you straight over to Charlotte. And I guess we just want
to talk a little bit about the history of direct sales as we know it,

(00:43):
to the best of our knowledge right now.
Yeah. So when it comes to direct sales, network marketing, whatever it is as
you want to call it, a lot of people nowadays think of it as just that person
selling stuff on Facebook.
And that is obviously what it is. But direct sales never used to be what it is today.

(01:06):
And I think, you know, people forget that actually,
like, it used to be, you know, if we just take Avon, for example,
Avon's been around since the dawn of time, everyone knows
knows Avon but it used to just be like door
to door you know you'd have an Avon lady who you
know would come around to your house and knock

(01:27):
on your door once a week and give you a book or you'd try samples
or you know you'd have parties and it was all very sociable it was all like
marketed mainly towards women like that was you know obviously something that's
different now but it was very much like a female thing and all your friends would get together and,

(01:47):
you know, the mums would drink wine and talk about their kids and try makeup
on and or look at Tupperware and stuff that makes their kitchen gadgets easier or whatever it was.
But it was this like mega social event.
People, you know, were getting together and having a laugh and just enjoying themselves.

(02:09):
And that's definitely not what it is now.
Like, I don't No, I've got, well, both of us have, we've got loads of friends that are still.
Within the network marketing space and I
don't see any of that anymore you know I
don't see people going around to people's houses doing
parties and school fates and market stalls I don't really see that kind of thing

(02:32):
anymore so that's definitely the older network marketing but now and like we
were saying obviously I we think this is a lot of like covid related,
because it's become a hugely online presence
but that's because everything had to go online when we

(02:53):
were at that point where we could go anywhere it's now become this massively
online thing and a little bit kind of lost what it used to be maybe would that
be right in saying it's like kind of lost the way it used to be definitely definitely
changed massively like what you were
saying there was so much face-to-face kind of interaction with direct sales

(03:15):
before and even when you were saying that then I was thinking I mean the last
time someone actually put a catalog through my door was when I was living in
England so we're talking before 2008.
I mean, it was a long time ago, a really long time ago. And that incidentally was an Avon catalog.

(03:36):
And even when you were saying about Tupperware, like that flashes kind of 1960s,
1970s scenes into my head of like American kind of women and all sitting around.
Yeah, like in kitchen parties. And it was the same with, you know,
makeup parties and Ann Summers parties.
And I didn't, do you know what? I used to get invited to Ann Summers parties all the time.

(04:00):
I did i haven't i
haven't been invited to one in years people just aren't
doing stuff in their houses anymore no no
they're really not and i think that's kind of taken away a little bit
of the fun social social yeah the
social aspect of it and it was really social wasn't
it and even when i i first got

(04:22):
into network marketing so i think
i joined my first company i think it was 2016
2017 i can't remember exactly and even
we know we were still doing parties
then so that was the kind of like beginning
of doing a lot of things on social media

(04:42):
but there was still like we were still
kind of actively trained to put
on these parties to go to people's houses let them
try the products you know do some demonstrations like
get their friends around and we used to do party bags and all
of that kind of stuff like that was still very much like what
we were trained to do but by the time I.

(05:04):
Left network marketing so within the last
I'm going to say within the last year since I
properly kind of stepped away nobody's doing
that anymore I don't see that happening or might
be like don't come at me you might still be doing
it the old school way but I don't I haven't seen it no
there's been a massive rise of like the rise of

(05:26):
the online space I mean like you're saying COVID has really
made online interactions explode like
what we were talking about before even you know it used to be a thing to go
out on a Saturday meet your friends in town have a coffee go for a stroll around
the shops and and we don't even do that anymore like I never used to want to

(05:47):
shop online I used to think the idea of shopping online was absolutely
crazy oh you'll never know what you'll never find what you want and how can
you know if it's what you want when you're online and I wouldn't have done it
I would have definitely gone into town shopping but now I'm I'm hard pushed
to go into town I would much rather do everything online so it's definitely.
There's definitely been a massive change. And I'm convinced a lot of that is to do with COVID.

(06:12):
And maybe I'm wrong. And obviously, it was growing online anyway.
Everything online was going to grow once the internet became,
you know, the thing that it is now.
I mean, obviously, when we were younger as well, internet just wasn't what it is nowadays.
So there is that as well, that would obviously make things become more internet.
But I think one of the things I think of, you know, really with direct sales

(06:38):
is that back when it was, back before internet,
like back when it was really face to face, there was a lot more kind of a personal
touch and a lot of kind of quite extensive compulsory training to get certain
levels and stuff like that as well to earn certain amounts.
Maybe it was a bit more regulated so maybe now with

(06:58):
the rise of online space you've got like a much
bigger reach for customer potential
but maybe a bit less regulated in
terms of the company kind of overseeing what you're
doing yeah no I think so I think
so because you know if we go back to I'm using
Avon as an example because it is just the

(07:19):
you know the most kind of old school it's like the pinnacle kind
of yeah yeah when you think about direct sales and
Avon lady yeah you just think of your Avon
lady and it's like you know I remember you know
back before it was an online thing you'd have you know streets that were your
streets that you were allowed to put catalogs in and you know those were the

(07:42):
only ones you were allowed to do unless somebody left and then it became available
and you had to go and kind of go out into the town and.
Hand out flyers to recruit people and, you know, get your friends to hold parties
and then their friends to hold parties.
And it was like there was a hell of a lot more actual...

(08:02):
I don't know how to say it without sounding really rude but there was a
lot more work involved i think like physically
and yeah physically maybe to a certain
degree yeah yeah like physically like walking
around and going door to door with
your catalogs and i mean i do think that there
is still a lot of work that is involved in it

(08:23):
but like probably like at least now you can sit
down yeah at least it's online home whereas
whereas back in the day you'd have been walking around
no matter the weather trying to drum up your business that way so definitely
definitely was tougher I'd say yeah yeah I think you know tougher in obviously

(08:47):
yeah different ways because you know online is is tough regardless because there's
so much more to think about but yeah like physically
a lot more work was involved especially if you didn't drive yeah yeah definitely,
you know that would that would be tough but it's always been a little platform

(09:08):
there that like you said it was primarily marketed out towards women to be able
to earn a little bit of money and I suppose get out of the house and do something
and interact with people and meet people you know it It can be tough.
I mean, I'm saying women because, again, it's that whole, like...
That era that you're coming from where the women stays at

(09:31):
home and raises the family and the men go out to work
there's still like it's it's kind of i could be wrong i'm not like we've looked
a little bit of the history of network marketing but you haven't really delved
that deep into it but it's like to me it feels like it was kind of a little
job that was that was sort of got there.

(09:53):
For the women to earn a bit of money and to get out of you
know to get out of the house because that's what they're doing sitting
at home minding the kids while the men are out working and
and I mean both of us
have had experience in network marketing
direct sales whatever you want to call it I'm going to stick to calling it
network marketing for this podcast yeah but we've both

(10:14):
had our experiences in it and I've got
to say I learned so much I
learned so much when I was in the world of direct sales and
anyone that works in sales will tell you that sales is hard
it doesn't matter if you're doing sales for sky tv
it's it's hard like yeah it's a
hard job to be in and i think that

(10:36):
you know when you when
you take on a job like this obviously it's commission-based earnings
you're kind of your own boss although you're heavily regulated by
the company in terms of what you can
and can't do still but you it's up to
you to do the training these days it's up
to you to learn about the products you're selling it's up to

(10:57):
you to develop your skill set to run a business and to do it successfully and
you know to earn money and develop yourself personally and some of the things
that it done for me you know I'm really grateful for like the confidence building, the friends.
The connections, just the growth of personal development that I've had through

(11:21):
network marketing has been phenomenal, you know, really has.
And I think if you throw yourself into the training, again, I suppose it depends on the.
People are listening to this that don't know
what network marketing terms are then your upline is
the person that you joined the company under
yeah so it's not your boss because you're

(11:44):
your own boss really but it's someone that can teach you the ropes of what they've
been doing i suppose isn't it yeah someone that can show you how to do it guide
you in the right direction you know make sure that you're connected with all
of the the training the back
-office stuff, the product knowledge.
That's the person that's supposed to kind of, kind of like doing the person

(12:09):
who does your induction when you start a new job. Yes.
Yes. That is a really good way of explaining it.
And one thing that I hear a lot is, oh, my upline didn't help me.
My upline didn't do it for me.
My upline, oh, I didn't make any money because my upline wasn't there for me
and all of this kind of thing.
And i mean i hate hearing people say

(12:30):
that because like there's nothing
so the thing is when you join a company or a business
like this i mean you do it because you want
to earn some extra money or you want to grow certain skill sets
whatever you have to put the effort in yourself you can't
expect your upline to just walk you through it and do everything for you
because they're trying to run their business they might

(12:51):
have systems in place that they point you in the
direction of but you you have to go and do the learning so you know
when people blame themselves not doing
well on their upline I really think that's sorry now
this might upset some people but I really think that's a poor excuse because
it's not hard when you're in a company and you're online and you know you join

(13:15):
a company you get the Facebook groups you get the information that you need
it's there you You just have to go and look for it.
So it's about learning and developing. And if you don't understand, then that's fine.
You can say to your upline, look, I don't understand. Can you explain?
There's always training. Yeah, always.
100% when somebody, when I see, like, if I see something online,

(13:40):
or somebody says, Oh, yeah, I was with that company, but I didn't make any money
because my upline didn't help me.
I'm sorry, but I call bullshit. I literally call bullshit because they're not
supposed to do it for you.
It's a business at the end of the day, regardless of what anybody wants to think.
And I know and like we'll talk about it more but I know

(14:01):
there is this huge anti kind of MLM network marketing
culture yeah it is a business you are
running it you are trying to make money you are building
something in whatever space you're
in to be your income so but you
have to do that for yourself so that is one of those things that literally
grinds my gears so much I'm like because the person that

(14:22):
brought you in isn't going to do it all for you they're
not going going to run it for you they're not going to be the
one that's on your social media doing stuff they can
point you in the right direction but if you choose not to do anything on it
then that's that's all on you I'm afraid it's down to you yeah and like that
person I mean this kind of leads on something else that we were going to say
about a little bit but like you can't expect that person to run their business

(14:46):
and then step in and run your business yes step in and tell you what
to write or how to message someone like you,
you have to learn those skills and you'll only learn them by doing them yourselves.
And I do think when I see those kinds of posts, I just think,
you know, I kind of feel for whoever their upline was.
Cause I think, you know what, they've probably been hounded and hounded and hounded.

(15:08):
And well, you know, while you need to help these people at the same time,
there's only so much helping you can do before you end up running their business for them as well.
And that's when, then that's when it can get a little bit
much because you only have a certain amount of minutes
in the day yeah and also it's hard
enough work running your own business let alone running someone

(15:31):
else's like you know yeah and this
is obviously something we i'm sure we will touch on but it's really
hard work direct sales and it's
hard work doing it for yourself running
your own customer base and your own team if that's you know if you choose to
run a team as well like that's a hard enough job in itself so you can't expect

(15:56):
somebody to bring you in show you how to do it all and then do it all for you
because why are you even here.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a part of it.
And I think like, I want to talk about all the good, good points that we've
had through it, but that is one of the things is the training.
And in the companies that I've been in, in my experience, there has been an

(16:20):
absolutely exceptional training available to you and for free as well.
For free which i might add is you know
you don't get a lot for free in this world but
in in all the companies i've been in there has
been endless amounts of training so if
you're really interested and really keen to grow
your skill set and to learn it's all

(16:42):
there you just have to look where you're you know where
you're pointed in the right direction and and i do believe that
every company has decent training in it at
the time i agree you know and you know i've been
in companies where we've had people come in to
do training courses who are you know world-renowned coaches like i was with

(17:03):
a company that had every worry come in and actually give us training and that
was free like we didn't have to pay yeah it just came into our corporate groups
and he is like you know the.
Godfather of network marketing like his courses are
thousands and thousands of pounds and we got it for free like yeah
that's madness like why you wouldn't want

(17:25):
to take people take them up on that like if you
were in going into a job and somebody said oh this guy he knows everything there
is to know about this job and you know what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing
would you not listen to his what he's got to say yeah exactly like you would
yeah you really would And you'd do the.

(17:46):
If you were in a normal job and you had a training day,
you'd do the training and you'd learn how to do something so that you could do it yourself.
That's the whole point of it. So, you know, just because you join a network
marketing company doesn't mean that you can just hound the person that you joined
under to do all the work for you.
Like you really should be doing the training to build

(18:08):
that skill set yourself and to get yourself
up there for sure and and those are
really good points of joining a company
in network marketing is again like we said it
but the training the personal development the things that you're taught are
priceless yeah like they they really are like the personal development training
that you do the mindset training because it's all really important the confidence

(18:33):
boosting you know you remember the The first time you did a live video and your whole,
like your upline and the rest of your team encouraging you and telling you how great you're doing.
Like those parts of network marketing that are literally are priceless and they
can really change your life.
In far more terms than financially. I mean, I have a lot to be grateful for,

(18:55):
for the things that I've walked away from network marketing with still the confidence,
the growth, the mindset skills,
you know, the skills, the skills that I learned through network marketing alone,
even on kind of the basics of running a business have been, yeah,
priceless. I've said that like three times now, but it's true.
They really have been because you don't learn that sort of stuff.

(19:19):
I mean, you don't learn it at school. It's not the kind of thing that you just
kind of randomly pick up and learn in your life, you know, how to develop confidence,
how to develop skill sets, you need to run a business, how to talk to people,
how to do follow ups and all those kind of things that comes from real training
and from learning things.

(19:40):
And that's a really valuable thing that you can you can get through network
marketing which is probably why a lot of people don't understand why it gets
such a bad press because there is.
Everything else aside the things that you can gain
like personally are huge yeah even
if we don't talk about financially you know i

(20:00):
agree if i take away the financial gains from
when i was in network marketing there's so much like
there are so many things that I think helped
to push me further into you
know the path that I'm on now with the healing of all of the stuff that I've
been through came from network marketing a lot of my now kind of go-to coaches

(20:25):
and mentors are people I was introduced to through network marketing you know
the books that I read are authors that I was told, oh,
this one's really good, you know, and now I'm like.
That person is my go to person when I'm looking for, you know,
help and guidance and stuff like that.
So and that's stuff that I would just never have done.

(20:47):
And like the confidence and also the actual genuine friendships that you make.
And like, I know, we're going to touch
on this a bit more later in the the episode but I have
made some genuine friends like me and
you wouldn't know each other if it wasn't for the online network marketing space

(21:09):
so yeah you know I've got some really genuine friends that are people I've met
through various companies and we're still friends now and we talk all the time
and we have a really good relationship and those people would be people I'd never in a million
years have met so yeah a huge thing and like that's a really really big positive that people don't,

(21:33):
quite understand actually you can make some really genuine connections and friendships.
Yeah and I think huh it's it's mad really because when people join a company
they obviously join it because they want to make some extra money and they like
the products maybe they might not have even tried the products but genuinely

(21:54):
people do it because they want to make some money or Or, you know,
you could be a stay-at-home mom with a new baby or something.
You might be feeling bored and lonely and you just want to make a connection.
But I think probably most people do it to start off with for the money.
But, I mean, if you even looked at the gains that we just spoke about,
to join a company, pay a few quid to join or join for free and get all those

(22:17):
gains, priceless again.
So, yeah, like on that topic as
well, like one thing that a lot of the companies that I've been part of do
is they have loads of incentives on so you can do
like trips and events and that's something
that probably not not everybody would
have access to all the time so you

(22:40):
know I know that a lot of companies put on these like incentive trips
that are all abroad you get to do loads of traveling but
like the events and the meeting people
at events and that kind of atmosphere is
something thing I'd never experienced until I was in network marketing like
the events were one of my favorite things to go to I absolutely loved going

(23:03):
to them like the buzz that you'd get off going was was so worth it it would
make anything worth would make it worth it really.
Yeah, I actually went to some fantastic events back when I was with a makeup company a while ago.
And just because I live in Ireland, so the events were in the UK.

(23:24):
So it was like a whole load of us that flew over and stayed in a hotel in Birmingham.
And, you know, it was like a real, like, I've never been someone that's gone
on like a girl's holiday or a girl's weekend or anything like that because I had a baby so young.
And I didn't have the money or the resources or anything. things so getting
an opportunity to go on a trip like that and to make friends you know like that

(23:47):
and just have a crack and have a laugh was absolutely brilliant yeah just like so much fun.
And I think you know
for me those things that I've walked away with the
the personal development the help with my mindset the
skill sets that I've learned the confidence that it

(24:07):
gave me the friendship the events the traveling
the different opportunities of training did I
say friendships the friendships as well those things are
just that they've just they'll stay with me forever and I've you know I've made
some money and I've also had long periods where I've not made any money but

(24:28):
it was worth it for all of yeah all of the gains that I got from it you know Yeah,
it really was. No, I agree.
You know, obviously, we both made the conscious decision and walked away from that space.
But it wasn't, you know, it sounds bad. I don't walk away feeling any kind of...

(24:49):
Negativity towards it it was just
yeah my time my time is
done yeah my priorities are different my you know the way that I was looking
at things was different and it's no bad thing but I'm walking away with you
know good memories amazing friendships and I've learned so much like Like the stuff I know now,

(25:15):
I probably wouldn't have learned in my lifetime doing the job I was doing.
And I used to be a salesperson.
Before I moved into customer service and now marketing, I was a salesperson
for a long time in my day job.
And I did all manner of sales training courses.

(25:36):
I actually did the Dale Carnegie sales training course. and I
learned more and I'm really sorry
mum if you're listening to this I learned more in the
training I learned online than I did in my Dell course
and I'm so sorry because yeah also I
need a sales trainer and she's gonna shoot
me for saying so but I learned so

(25:58):
much about sales and building relationships
and networking and connections and like the selling to people people solutions
to their problems rather than just yeah you want to make money on I think it
was just a different kind of sales training but yeah I learned so much it was it was crazy.

(26:20):
I did as well. And the same as you, when my time was done because my priorities
changed, I think I changed.
And what once was enjoyable for me was becoming a chore and stressful and taking up too much time.

(26:42):
And I wasn't really enjoying it. So that's something that I learned as well.
And I think a lot of the time you're told to think about what your
why is and if your why is really strong you'll do the work
and a lot of people talk about how much
money they're making or not making and a lot of people come into it I think
thinking they're going to just their first week in the business they're going

(27:02):
to make hundreds of pounds and you know it's going to be the solution to their
problem and whilst it can be a solution to your problem you can't go into a
sales business that is still even
though it's online it is still very
much the kind of thing where people join people not

(27:24):
companies and people buy from people not companies so you still have to do a
lot of work and put in time building relationships and making genuine connections
with people before you're going to you know start making your life-changing money and you have to
be prepared to do that work and a lot of people see people

(27:46):
that are making big money but they they
just see them then when they're making big money and they don't see them for
the past 10 years that they worked really hard and made many sacrifices to get
to where they are in that position and I think that's that's something for me
is that I realized that look I I had other things to do.

(28:09):
And I didn't want to be spending all my time, you know, working every day.
I didn't find time freedom when I was in network marketing.
To be successful, I found I needed to be spending 10 to 12 hours a day on my
phone. And that just wasn't what I wanted to do.

(28:31):
And I just wasn't really, I walked away from it because it didn't align with
what I wanted to do anymore. It wasn't for me.
And that's when I learned what was important to me and what wasn't important to me.
And I think that a lot of people start with motivation and motivation runs out
and then they don't have discipline to keep doing the work.
They want the success, but they don't want to do the work that it takes.

(28:55):
And it does take work. And I think that's.
That's something that a lot of people start and don't realize,
you know, these people that are making huge money, they've been doing this for
at least 10 years and they've worked their backsides off to get to where they are. Yeah.
And I think one thing is people don't like to talk about it.

(29:16):
They don't like to tell people coming into the business that this is going to be hard work.
They want to you know and
this isn't everybody I'm not tarnishing everyone you
know I know there are plenty of really successful leaders out there that are
like look if you want to be at these levels it's going to be hard but you know

(29:38):
if you put the work in it will be there but a lot of people just they're like
yeah you know you can do this in pockets of time you can you know an hour
a day and you can make, you know, an extra couple of hundred pound a month.
And I just, I just don't see how that's possible.
You know, I've worked for a few different companies in a few different industries,

(29:59):
different price points, but it's all the same.
You know, it's all direct sales. It's all, you know, the work is the same and,
you know, trying to do it in small pockets
of time is is really
hard like because yeah you know an
hour a day it takes you an hour a day just to

(30:21):
create content that's without even talking
to anyone that's without trying any products that's without you know doing anything
that's without following up with customers that's without packing orders that's
without anything yeah and you
know I just I just don't see how that's possible and I might be wrong, but.

(30:44):
I don't think it is possible. I think maybe once you've spent years building
up your business to a point, you might be able to work like that.
But still, I think if you want to have a successful business,
you have to keep up a high level of work because at the end of the day,
you can't rely on anyone else.
You can't rely on anyone to still be there tomorrow even because people go and

(31:06):
do what people want to go and do. So you have to rely on your business.
And even if you're you're someone that wants to build a team you
still have to make sure that you're getting your sales in
and your money is coming from what you're doing so
it's it's still a long time to build up your
reputation your you know
relationships your your business sense

(31:29):
everything you're doing is it's still going to take time and I
think that people don't maybe go into
it don't realize how much time and and commitment
it takes to run a business like that because it does take
a lot of time and commitment it's not just a little
hobby on the side that your mom's friend does
to earn a few quid because it doesn't it

(31:49):
doesn't work like that but like there is
a bad a lot of bad out there about mlms and i think that comes from poor training
and you know everyone gets those messages those copy and paste messages which
kind of puts a lot of people off being online as well And I don't know anyone who.

(32:13):
Not one single person that has ever had one
of those messages or sent one of those messages been successful
from go hey I've just looked
at your profile I know you don't know me but you'd be really great on my team
or hi my catalog has 20% off today would you like to have a look at the link
sorry who are you what who's this person you know and like it's very different if like say

(32:40):
it was me and you and we're friends for a long time and
i text you and said oh hey charlotte the catalog's got 20 off
today if you want to look at the discounted products that's
different like you're not someone i don't know that's
me texting my friend and saying yada yada yada
but when you get those messages like i've so
many messages in my junk folder just from people i'm

(33:02):
not friends with just saying to me oh you look like
a great fit for my company i'd love to work with
you or you know have a look at my catalog link there's
20 off this this and this today and and those
are the kind of messages that that start the
bad reputation i think so for direct sales i do i do really think so and then

(33:23):
you've got the people that are just convinced everything's a scam and the whole
the whole pyramid oh it's a pyramid scheme people throw that phrase around and
they They don't even know what it means.
No, they don't. But there's a huge, a huge anti-MLM movement online,
which unfortunately you've been victim of as well.

(33:44):
Yeah. Big online trolling and bullying. Yeah.
So, you know, there's a side to network marketing.
Like we call this the good, the bad, and the ugly. And there is a very ugly side to it as well.
Like we've talked about some of the good points. And the good points are absolutely
blinding. Like they're absolutely diamond good points.

(34:08):
But the bad points and the ugly side of network marketing is equally as ugly and nasty.
Like i feel like there's a seedy undertone there is
like there really is and there's a real like
toxic undertone to
marketing and again this

(34:31):
is not personal like you know it's not
a personal attack on anybody but i think the bad
rap for network marketing has come from shitty
leaders it's come from or corporate
or corporate you know corporate teams
that are just after the money leaders that

(34:51):
just smoke and mirrors yeah they're
just fobbing people off with you know
this is the best thing since sliced bread and actually
it's not but so many people it's great so it must be be great like yeah is there's
so much of that going on and I think because there's also like and I know you

(35:14):
know back when I was with my first company there was a documentary that went out about.
Actually about my team or like my wider team
and it was you know somebody like an
actual tv thing yeah i think it was on bbc actually
uh it was like an undercover thing where
she had you know

(35:36):
approached our like kind of top leader
i'm trying very hard to be like discreet about what
the company is but she's like the top
kind of person in the tree and you
know joined the team and all this kind of
stuff and then it was kind of twisted you
know quite a lot in the sense that oh she felt like she had to spend all this

(35:59):
money and she felt like she had to buy all this stuff and that was never anything
that was ever instilled in me from any of the leaders that I've been with everyone
Everyone is always saying it's a product of your product.
You know, you can't say something you've not used, but that's just common sense.
You know, like I can't tell you, oh, this is the best product you've ever had

(36:22):
in your whole life if I've never even held it.
So, you know, yeah, too much of that.
But yeah, there was like loads of this stuff in this documentary that came out
and it was really like quite damaging to the industry.
And there was a few things that came out around about the same time about network

(36:43):
marketing and how it's a pyramid scheme and it's a scam and it's this and it's that.
And the word pyramid scheme really frustrates the life out of me because actual
pyramid schemes were made illegal in like.
70s or something stupid like yeah
they were made i'm sure that an actual pyramid scheme

(37:03):
is something that doesn't have like a product or something like that
yeah it's just like everyone has to put money in and then
the next people above them put money in yeah it's
like oh what was it that they also used to call them
like ponzi schemes or something but yeah
yeah it was basically there wasn't any product that
or service there wasn't anything nobody ever got anything

(37:25):
at the end of it you just got people to sign up to you
know something and they've made
illegal a really really long time ago so that
really frustrates me but also like if you
want to look at pyramid schemes like your nine to five
is a pyramid at the end of every job i
mean if you have if you're talking of a pyramid as in you know levels of management

(37:49):
obviously you have like 20 people working on a the shop floor you have five
people supervising those 20 people you have maybe two people supervising those
five people and then you have one person supervising everyone,
that's a pyramid that that's a pyramid.
So yeah like that that really grinds my gears that when people say that because

(38:13):
it's so wrong there's a lot of you know and don't get me wrong there's a lot
of people out there who are
completely uneducated and making these comments and those are the things that
do frustrate me the people that don't have any facts they've just decided that you know susan selling,
makeup on facebook a noiser so everything's going to be wrong and it's all going to be,

(38:37):
horrendous and horrible but there is
also a lot of people out there who are doing it
the wrong way i think like doing the
whole network marketing thing the wrong way and they don't help our
cause i say our cause it's not my cause anymore but
they don't help the situation they
don't help no they certainly don't because that makes

(38:59):
people feel like they're being hounded by people they
don't know which is exactly what they are being when it's
like a cold message someone it's the same as some
random person coming and knocking on your door and trying to
sell you sky tv or or something it's just like who are you and why are you here
like if I want to and a lot of people are under the impression that if they

(39:22):
want something they will go and get it and they'll go and seek it out and I
just think I think that maybe when people first join companies they just get a little bit desperate.
And then they, like, my dad always used to say to me, desperate people do desperate
things, and you can't ever blame a desperate person for acting desperately because
they're not in their right mind.

(39:43):
And I think if you're in a situation where you've, you know,
joined a company and you're desperate to make a few quid, you're going to go crazy.
Yeah. You're going to do everything and anything and talk to everyone,
anybody that will listen.
And try your best. best and you might you know
not really succeed or your best might not be good enough because you don't know

(40:03):
any different but that's where they just need a bit of guidance and and training
but they need to be trained the right way I mean it's no good having someone
else train you that does it that way well that's the thing isn't it it's a bit
of a cycle because there are.
Fortunately people who lead big teams
of people telling people to do that and

(40:24):
yeah you know because like I'll hold my hands up I was
told to do that in the early days of my network
marketing it was go through your friends list have a
list of people who you think would be a customer who you think
would be a team member and then you send out these messages and
we'd have you know power hours where send
this message to 20 people like that was

(40:46):
the way that things were done back when I
first started so I'll hold my hands up and I've sent copy paste messages back
when i first started but i would say we all very rarely got anything back from
anybody they weren't yeah they
didn't give me anything other than you know a bit of the ick to be fair.

(41:13):
But but yeah i mean that's like that's
one of the things that does give a lot of people the
and there is a huge anti-mlm movement
online and those kind of messages get
screenshot and shared and then
people who don't know any different
who are just trying to make some money can end up the victim of

(41:36):
online trolling and bullying from these anti-mlm
people because they've shared something or
whatever and something's got shared and and
that's that's harsh but at least when something
like that happens you might have a team around you
that can help you and guide

(41:56):
you or like if someone sends me a message like that I always message them back
a really nice message and you know I say like well done on reaching out it's
not easy you know but we're not even friends like I actually am friends with
someone that's in that company and I buy my products from them try and.

(42:16):
Show them that maybe it's better to be friends with someone before
you try and pitch them a sale but there's
a lot of i think a lot of one of
the things i think is a bad point about network
marketing is comparison and people
comparing themselves to other people and i think a
lot of those desperate kind of messaging acts happen

(42:39):
from comparison or a desire to like be the
best in the team competition or you
know comparing themselves to shelly down the road who's
already sold two grand's worth of products this
month and how come she can't you know and you're messaging people like mad and
comparison can really affect your mental health i agree i agree especially when

(43:01):
because the good thing about being in direct sales is you have a team and everyone
supports each other and everyone celebrates everybody else's success.
And don't get me wrong like it's great
when you go into your team groups and you're seeing everybody like
you know you get to month end and you've got all these people like hitting
promotions and it's like that's really great but

(43:23):
if you're not hitting those and you're not doing
your sales and you're feeling like you're lacking when you're
seeing all these other people doing it it makes you
then think well why can't I what like
am I doing wrong and then that's when
the kind of desperation mode sets in and I think you know that's where you can

(43:45):
do things that aren't necessarily like the best the best things to do and if
you don't have a good supportive you know upline or team or sidelines or whoever
it is you connect with in your business that's going to be
able to help you and guide you and just say, look, you know,
maybe now's not your time, but keep doing what you're doing.

(44:06):
And to kind of stop you making those like desperate mistakes,
then people are going to and then.
It just ends up spiraling and
yeah it just comes and it can spiral your
mental health as well and like i've felt this way before in in companies with
stress and pressure to achieve and just felt like you know and it just really

(44:31):
got to me and i'm like i'm a strong i would say
I'm a resilient person like I bounce back really quickly I'm a
strong-minded person and you
know I've done so much training on like personal development and
mindset and I have to I have to work
on those things every single day anyway because I'm recovering

(44:54):
from trauma and you know here I'm on my own healing journey anyway so those
are things I need to be doing but like Like when you start feeling that kind
of level of stress or pressure to perform or you're comparing yourself to other
people and you feel like I need to do better,
I can't, I don't know how else, you know, what I'm doing.

(45:14):
Those kind of things can really get to you and they can really drag you down.
So there is a side, I think, to network marketing that is probably.
You know, a bit, I want to say self-inflicted because it's the pressures that you put on yourself.
Or you might feel pressure from your team around you as well to do a certain

(45:35):
amount or to be a certain level.
And there's a lot of emphasis put on levels, I think.
Yeah, there really is. What do you call them?
I was going to say grades, but it's not a grade. Rank?
Rank, yeah, that's the word, your rank. There's a lot of pressure on ranks,
and that's probably something that might be able to be looked at.

(45:57):
I'm not sure if that's something that could change in the future,
but those kind of stresses and pressures, coupled with the stress and pressure
of today's society anyway, adding to that kind of thing can really mess with
a person's mental health.
And I think a lot of people start feeling...
But maybe if they change companies, they could do better in another company.

(46:20):
That's the shiny, like, you see all people joining another company and you start
thinking, hey, hang on, maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
But I don't think so. I think I've got to this stage now where,
like, for me anyway, and this is only my opinion, but when I see another company
come up like that, I'm like, it looks really good, you know,

(46:42):
the products look great.
I'll probably buy some products from there at some stage in time.
But it's still the same business model.
Yeah. It's not the business that needs to change in those situations. I think it's you.
And I think that, you know, just as much as a lot of people would change companies

(47:03):
a lot, thinking that, you know, their happily ever after is somewhere else because
they're not making the money they thought they would or doing what they thought they would.
But there's also a lot of people that are scared to change companies because
they're not happy where they are.
They're not enjoying the business that they're in or maybe with the people that
they're in business with, but they're scared to change companies because of

(47:24):
what people might say and this kind of weird loyalty that people develop.
And because of what they've probably seen as well, because that's something
that I definitely want to touch on, is the fact that there is this huge thing.
That just becomes this massive drama and

(47:45):
cloud of negativity that comes with
you if you choose to change company you know
like I I remember when I first changed
companies and you know
there was people who I'd been friends with
for years working in this company who just
out of nowhere blocked me because they were

(48:06):
like well you're just going to poach my team you're gonna
you know sell to my customers and you
know overnight you get kicked out of all these groups you
get ostracized from yeah from.
The world that you've just been in and all the people that
were you know all over your posts and

(48:27):
all in your messengers and cheering you on and like helping
you out all of a sudden don't even want to
know and there's this huge thing about
people leaving companies and i see it even now
you see people leaving companies and
then they have to then put something on facebook
to be like you know come on like

(48:49):
we're allowed to change companies like yeah allowed
to go and work somewhere else like if this was my you
know quotes normal job you know
my nine to five if you weren't happy and
it was making you miserable and you weren't making the money that you
wanted to make and you were spending all hours god sends working none of your
friends would tell you to just well just keep going just keep plugging away

(49:12):
yeah like they'd be like no see what else is out there have a look other jobs
are there see if there's something that's gonna you know light your soul all on fire. Like...
Yeah it's this really bizarre thing
that if somebody leaves it's oh
well you know they think the grass is greener over

(49:33):
there well maybe they don't maybe they're just
really unhappy and they found another company that
ticks the boxes that this company doesn't and there
could be any reason why someone's not happy in their
company it could be any any reason
at all i mean it could could be that you don't
get on with the products that there's ingredients in the

(49:55):
products that you're not happy about you know using
them or or then recommending them to other people it
could be that you don't like the compensation plan
it could be that you just don't get on with the people it could be I don't know
what else is it could be that it yeah it's just it's not the right business
model for you and and that's okay you should be able to leave companies and

(50:19):
then Then you have the whole thing that we were talking about before,
where you should be able to leave companies without it being a big deal.
But also you should be able to leave companies without slagging off the company
that was just two days before the best thing since sliced bread.
Yeah. So there's equally that side as well.

(50:40):
Well, but then there's also the twist to that plot, which is when you leave
a company, if there's been something unethical in the company.
Should you be able to say that to other people?
Because there's like a moral thing here. If you think there's something unethical
in the company, now I don't have any experience of this, but I know other people that have.

(51:05):
If you leave that company,
As an ethical or moral person, you want to tell other people,
look, hey, before you join that company, you should know, they use,
I don't know, child sweat factories in China to make their stuff.
For example, that's immoral, right? Yeah.
So if you found something like that about a company then, right,

(51:28):
and it was against your morals and your ethics and you left.
Are you within your right to speak out about it?
Or if you speak out about it, are you going to then become the victim of
the bullying and online hate campaign
against you you know there's there's a
really weird loyalty in the
network marketing thing towards companies that

(51:49):
there isn't in any other business not at
all like i don't have any any loyalty to tesco's
over sainsbury's or asda i'll go
in the morning but for another company and
then you left because you found out that the owners of
that company and you were doing something unethical and immoral you'd
go to watchdog about it like you'd hear about it

(52:11):
all over yeah like and that's totally fine
like you'd be well within your right to
blow the whistle and be like yep they've got a sweat factory here's
the proof I have for that but if you do it in the
network marketing space you become the
target of like online bullying and some
kind of hate crusade that you're just

(52:33):
you've just left and you're just you know bitter and blah blah blah but it's
like i i just don't understand it that's where like a slight kind of and this
is probably going to upset somebody but it's like a kind of cult mentality that
yeah yeah Yeah, I agree with that.
So fiercely loyal to a company and a brand that anyone that wants to speak out about it is wrong.

(53:02):
Yeah. Yeah. Even if, and you know, you can't take someone else's experience away from them.
So they, they might have experienced something that you haven't,
but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't speak about that or,
you know, should be ostracized for saying whatever they believe, I think.

(53:23):
But i mean at the same time it
is a bit icky then when you see someone raving about one
company one day and then having left it slating it
the next day to join another company and that can yeah that can come across
as a bit icky as well and that's where it just has to be handled a bit better

(53:44):
i think and again that comes down to just individual people i think you know because i've done that.
Where well actually no I haven't that's that's
a lie because every time I feel like I'm about to want
to leave a company I go very
quiet as far as my business is concerned on social media if I'm feeling like

(54:06):
it's time to leave I wouldn't promote the products Monday leave on a Tuesday
and slag them off Wednesday like
I I wouldn't do that like you know I I would just go quiet yeah I just
kind of going down for a few days or
a week or so before while I kind of

(54:26):
decide am I going to leave am I not like
that's kind of my exit plan because I think yeah if you are yeah promoting one
day and then slagging them off the next that's that's a big ick for me as well
yeah yeah me too and I think my my other one of the things that kind of really

(54:47):
got to me when I was network marketing.
Was the expectations of people
expecting me to be at their beck and call like and I'm not talking about team
members or anything like that I'm talking about customers messaging you at 11
o'clock at night 12 o'clock at night six o'clock in the morning people getting

(55:09):
antsy with you because you don't reply immediately.
And then as well, the last thing is people expecting so much for nothing because
it's a person with a business instead of a shop.
Like, well, I don't know, can I just have some to sample fast?
I'm like, excuse me, but you wouldn't ask for a sample in Descos.
I haven't tried Frosties. Could you just open up the box and give me a few to

(55:33):
try before before I decide if I want to buy it. Yeah. Hello?
People can be so rude.
Absolutely. Like, absolutely.
So, yeah, I think, you know, we've kind of discussed that quite a lot of our
good and bad points of network marketing and our experiences with it.

(55:55):
So, you know, I'd love to hear or we'd love to hear what all of you guys think.
Like, have you been in network marketing?
Have you had a good experience, bad experience? Have you never done it?
Like, have you just heard about it?
But we'd really, really love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
And yeah so feel free to leave comments let

(56:17):
us know what you think thank you very much for listening we
do really appreciate everybody that listens and you
know don't forget to like and follow us on facebook and
tiktok and we're pretty much now wherever you get your podcasts so feel free
to leave us a review because obviously you know the more kind of likes and follows

(56:38):
we get on things the more people we can reach and that's kind of the aim of
the game so yeah we really appreciate everything and we will see you guys next week.