July 31, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of The Visionaries Show, hosts Jen Crowe and Mohan Ananda sit down with Sally Bryant, the dynamic CEO of Bryant Group. Sally opens up about the realities of female leadership, the value of integrating executive search with leadership consulting, and how gratitude has shaped her approach to business and life. From adapting to the rise of AI in recruitment to discovering the strength in asking for help, Sally’s journey is grounded in resilience, clarity, and courage. This episode is a powerful look at what it really means to build trust, grow with purpose, and lead with heart.
Top 3 Takeaways:
- Leadership starts with self-awareness. Sally shows how intuition, gratitude, and asking for help aren’t soft skills—they’re leadership essentials.
- AI is transforming recruitment—but relationships still rule. Even with cutting-edge tools, human connection remains central to finding and keeping great leaders.
- Moxie matters. Sally defines it as courage plus persistence—and it’s what fuels both her company culture and personal resilience.
Learn more about Sally and what the Bryant Group does. Click here: https://www.bryantgrp.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
you
Live from Charleston, South Carolina, this is the Gin and Mo show.
Take it away, Gin and Mo.
(00:30):
Thank you Mr.
Ken Evans and welcome.
Well I'll do this like I'm doing this on Instagram.
I want to introduce myself again.
Welcome to the visionary show.
I'm your host and pro and my co-host.
I'm Amanda.
I'm just an entrepreneur.
Yes, that's what he usually says.
(00:51):
I'm just an entrepreneur.
The thing about this show is that he's the beauty and the brain.
Do agree with that?
Anyway, so we have today a wonderful, wonderful guest.
She's more than a woman.
She's a wildly successful entrepreneur.
And when I say wildly, because it's hard to...
(01:12):
oh
It's hard to become a successful entrepreneur when you're a woman because we women, wetend to do a lot of things at the same time.
We're very good at multitasking, right?
You gotta be a mother, you gotta be an entrepreneur, you gotta tidy up the house, yougotta make sure the bed's done in the morning, all those things.
(01:34):
good cook.
Is that me?
we want to turn the spotlight on to our our guest today and thank you everyone that youare joining us here let us all welcome Ms.
Bryant.
Welcome to the show.
(01:54):
Thank you, Jen.
I appreciate that.
I will tell all of you that I think this is what happens when they say, OK, who wants todo this?
Take a step forward.
And all of you must have taken a step back.
Not sure.
But I know we're right after lunch.
So I'm going to try to keep it super interesting and exciting.
(02:15):
Don't make me dance.
You don't want to see it.
We're not going to do this.
Go ahead, Mr.
Nahama.
You can start asking questions.
Hi, Sally.
It's such a pleasure to meet you.
Thank you, Mom.
Maybe before we do anything, a very brief introduction about who you are.
(02:39):
I don't mean to interrupt you, but I am interrupting you.
Let's try to...
Yes, sir.
...put this closer to your mother.
Thanks.
Let me start again.
Yes.
Thank you, Sahil.
It's a great question to speak to you.
Before we start the program, would like you to give a brief introduction.
(03:02):
What you do, what your expertise is.
Just tell us about it.
I'm Sally Bryant, I'm the CEO of Bryant Group.
I am also co-founder and owner of the company.
And we fix leadership teams.
So if you have a gap in your leadership team, whether it's an open position or a cultureissue, we come in and help you fix that because leadership always affects the bottom line.
(03:32):
I will tell you, Jen you mentioned it's difficult to be a female entrepreneur.
I was telling someone earlier today,
I grew up five miles outside of a town of 500 people on a wheat farm in the middle ofnowhere and I did not know any professional females.
And most of the men I knew were farmers.
(03:54):
And so it's been an interesting journey to get here today and be with all the amazingpeople in this room.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
What made you to be where you are today?
The grace of God.
(04:15):
I am telling you, I knew at a certain point in my childhood that I would not be on thefarm.
There was something different, was something bigger, was something beyond.
I won't say better because growing up in that lifestyle was absolutely amazing andprobably still maybe one of the healthiest ways to grow up and to raise a family.
(04:40):
I just knew that there was something different and that I wanted to make an impact.
I am so passionate about helping people be their best version of themselves and to helptheir organizations be better.
And that's really what gets me out of bed in the morning.
I started my career actually my last semester of college.
(05:04):
I'm a really good student, but I don't like to be a student.
So instead of going to class, I did not go to one class.
My last class was at college.
Don't tell your students,
I did not go to class in one class.
I took an internship for course credit because I'm a worker.
I like to be productive.
(05:24):
I didn't want to be in class.
And that was the beginning of how I got to where I am today because that journey, that jobthat I took as an intern led to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing until
you can look back on your life and realize that your life prepared you for your life andeverything led to where I am today.
(05:47):
Before, Jen, one question I'd ask.
haven't asked it.
In your linking profile, you claim that you are an activator.
Can you explain what that means?
Yes, so that's actually for anybody who here is familiar with the Clifton Streaks.
(06:10):
So activator is one of my top five strengths.
And what that means to be an activator is I am really good at the big ideas and I'm reallygood at getting started and I better have a team around me to finish them up.
Excellent.
Well speaking of strengths, my top one is maximizer and so is thumbs.
(06:35):
I saw that one too.
But that's what I might talk about.
And we'll see number two.
Oh, I don't know what order you're doing.
Yeah, I remember my tough one and two maximizers.
Strategy, strategy, so right, so I think we're both about the
So back to you, I'm curious, did you just, you co-founded it with your husband, right?
(06:56):
Did you just start as a headhunter and then you just adult into leadership training?
Just most people just do the headhunting and finding people for companies and that getsdone.
You get a request, we're out.
So, um.
The two minute background is I actually started my career as a professional fundraiser atmy alma mater, Washington State University, Go Cougs.
(07:22):
And uh I went from there, after I had done that in several organizations and moved up intoleadership, I actually became a fundraising consultant.
During that journey, I had an opportunity to do an executive search and I absolutely lovedit.
But the funny thing is that my husband already had a company doing executive search in theexact same space.
(07:48):
And so when I joined his company, which you go into that funny story if we want at somepoint, but when I joined his company to do executive search, we were purely executive
search.
And he had been doing executive search in our space, focusing on professional fundraisingleaders.
since 1988.
And it wasn't until 2016, that's when I brought in the leadership consulting line where wehelp fix those leadership cultures because I could see a real need in our space.
(08:19):
We go into companies, into organizations, and the biggest problem affecting theirday-to-day work is leadership team issues.
Right?
People, they're really good at what they do, but they're not always really good at workingtogether as a team.
And as you probably most of you know, like team drama really takes up a lot of time andenergy which affects your bottom line.
(08:44):
So we were an executive search firm only, but I can see that we could serve our clients inthis related area still at the C-suite level and help them get better.
Okay, Demisa, I asked that, as you know I mentioned, usually you just do headhunting,right?
You place some leaders into the organization.
If you added
(09:05):
that component into what you're already doing.
This is something everyone of us can learn from her because you are, let's say you havethis particular offer, a primary offer, and if you add a complimentary, something
complimentary to that, then it can boost maybe the revenue of your company, thereputation.
(09:26):
Now that's my next question.
How do you accelerate the growth of your company by adding that component?
So we, first of all, I during COVID, it actually was really important because nobody washiring in 2020.
But everybody needed help figuring out how to make a decision in an environment thatthey've never been in.
(09:49):
And if you think about our clients, big universities, big hospitals, some of them are theonly game in town.
And if they decided like their students weren't going to come to campus that year, thatmeans that individual business owners like you and I may go out of business.
if we had a brick and mortar store, own a restaurant, we own a hotel.
(10:09):
So they're making decisions that are affecting not just their students, but they'reaffecting thousands of people's lives.
And so they were coming to us to help them make those decisions in a way that was filledwith integrity and to figure out how do you make those decisions.
So it's been interesting because that line has grown in our business like a hockey stick.
(10:30):
And the funny thing that we find though is that searches up, then usually leadership
development takes a little bit more of a backseat and when leadership development isreally high, search goes down a little bit.
But I do think it's been a huge part of our growth where we have quadrupled.
I think it was from 2020 until 2023 we quadrupled.
(10:51):
And I think that was a big piece of it.
Well, great.
It's quite interesting.
That vision came to you by observing the trends.
It's really funny you asked.
And by the way, I shouldn't say I think.
I know the numbers.
I mean, it was like you said it.
So one of my strengths that my team and I have identified in myself, you know, I alwaysknow your own strengths.
(11:18):
Because if it comes naturally to you, you're not aware of it.
So we brought in this leadership development piece.
Our competitor executive search firms out there weren't even thinking about it.
They weren't doing anything like this.
And they've brought it in in the last couple of years.
But one of my strengths is seeing trends in our industry and starting them before otherpeople.
(11:40):
And it's a very interesting strength that I never wanted to own until just recentlybecause it's not really based on data.
It's based, I don't know what it's based on.
ah
I don't know what it's based on.
I'm visionary.
You see it before others did.
Yeah, I just can't see.
And I don't always see them.
(12:01):
You know, like I should have known to invest in Zoom because we were already using it whenCOVID hit.
Zoom would have busted.
People say that because Zoom is now successful.
But if it had busted, they wouldn't even say that, oh, I should have invested in Zoom.
But I was already using it.
Most people have been using it.
Because we didn't vote before the pandemic.
We were already remote mic-teams.
(12:22):
That's
Anyway, I'll ask you the more intriguing questions later, so be ready.
I'll turn you over to the beauty.
Maybe you can distinguish between leadership development and leadership coaching.
(12:43):
Absolutely.
Great question.
usually when we say leadership coaching or executive coaching, we're usually talking aboutone-on-one coaching.
And we do that for leaders.
Leadership development is either team coaching.
So for example, we'll give assessments, we'll help figure out what the issues are, andthen we'll do workshops to help people work better together and overcome their own
(13:10):
specific issues.
The best type of leadership
development is combining the teamwork, the team coaching with individual coaching.
That's where we see the biggest differences and we're heavily reliant on assessments thathelp us show and help the team figure out if they're making progress.
(13:34):
Because these things that seem a little squishy, right, they seem a little hard tomeasure, they actually are measurable.
Can I have a four?
Well, you can have two more.
What makes you different from the rest of the group?
What makes us different from the competition?
Do you mean competition in executive services?
(13:58):
Okay.
So the first thing that makes us different from our main competitors is that we do what wecall the full talent life cycle.
So we solve leadership problems and a problem could be you have an empty seat and we'llfill it or a problem could be you don't have trust on your team and we're going to help
you fix that.
(14:19):
A problem could be we have a new person
but we don't have anyone to help them onboard.
So we can help you with onboard.
For example, we'll do coaching with a brand new college president who's never been apresident before.
We'll help them figure out how to do that.
We're different because we want to provide a full circle solution for anything that youneed at the C-suite level that needs help, that needs a problem solved.
(14:45):
Most of our competitors are 95 % executive search.
And um from what candidates tell us, and I do love some of my competitors, we'refrenemies, ah they're more transactional.
So that's the other thing on the executive search side.
In all of our business, we're relational.
(15:06):
Most people think of an executive search as transactional.
And candidates will tell you that they feel like a number or like a piece of livestock.
Because it's like, okay, well, we're going to put you, you, and you up there.
Okay, you, you, and you, you didn't get it.
Sometimes other firms, again, we have heard from our candidates, they're never even toldthat they didn't get the job.
(15:33):
They'll find out from seeing it on the internet.
What we do with our candidates is from day one.
is we get to know them and we want to make sure that this is as good for them as it is forthe organization.
How are you going to be able, not only how can you help them, how can they help you?
Is this a good move in your career?
(15:54):
Is this good for your family?
And one of the things that I am most proud of is that the number of testimonials we havefrom candidates who did not get the job.
who say, this changed my life.
You gave me confidence.
Thank you for believing in me.
Thank you for showing me things about myself I didn't know.
(16:15):
And so I had a potential podcast opportunity just a couple weeks ago and the gentlemansaid to me, oh, that's transactional.
And I just told him what I just told you and he said, okay, thank you very much.
We'll be in touch.
But that's great because you then you're not my kind of people because I am all about howcan we help people through relationship and I don't think you're always going to find that
(16:43):
in a search firm or even a leadership consulting firm.
uh
What's your plan for growth and when will you be doing the initial?
uh
(17:18):
So we started out as an executive search firm serving fundraising professionals.
So let me just give you some context.
Fundraising philanthropy in this country is a $400 billion business every year.
400 billion.
The people who are giving that money away are not corporations and foundations.
(17:41):
That's about 15 % of it.
85 % of it is people like you and me.
And most people don't know that there are...
thousands and thousands and thousands and probably millions of people who are working inthat industry.
So what they're doing is they're meeting with people, they're creating programs, they'reworking the IT, they're doing all the things that are the reason why these universities
(18:09):
have multi-billion dollar endowments.
Those don't just happen.
They happen because there are so many people working on that.
So we started in that space and what's happened in that space is
that when I graduated from college there were no programs that taught you how to be afundraising officer.
(18:29):
There are now over 300 degree and certificate programs in the US that will teach you howto do that.
That is because the demand has grown so fast that at the entry level fundraising positionsthere are
Hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of positions open in this country with no money tobuild up.
So we are creating a service that will do that.
(18:52):
It's not executive search.
You can't do it at the executive search level because the entry level salaries are nothigh enough to do that.
By the way, if you have kids graduating from college, this is fantastic.
career for them to go into.
is fantastic.
Benefits are great, salaries are good, the environment is, you know, the culture of theworkplaces is amazing.
(19:14):
You get to work with people like this, Let me ask one more question, do you use AI in yourwork?
How do you plan to use it in the future?
I love that question.
So we are working diligently in our company to incorporate it.
It's pretty
and it's a easier to incorporate it for efficiency than it is for creativity and efficacy.
(19:40):
But I've learned a lot here today and yesterday that we're going to be taking back tothem.
We use it in some basic ways you would expect.
We use it to draft proposals and draft marketing pieces and do some things like that.
also use it for, we have a massive database of these people that we recruit and we havehuge networks of relationships.
(20:01):
But we can also ask AI if you have this kind
job at this kind of place, where would you go to source candidates?
Because our candidates are not applicants.
We have to go out and get them.
We go out, it's when you get a phone call from that headhunter, says, I got a job, yougotta look at it.
You say, I'm not interested.
And what do I say, Chris?
You gotta be interested.
(20:21):
Trust me, just come look at it.
All right.
So that's what we do, so AI is great for that.
But here's the other thing, is our program, our service I just told you about, I don'tthink any of our competitors are even thinking about it, and we will be using AI to do it.
Well speaking of AI, I just had an AI idea for you, I don't know if you've already workingon it or if it's a good idea at all.
(20:45):
You know how when you order from DoorDash or UberEats or when you're actually processingyour visa to get into the United States, you go in a portal and you check the status and
it's just like DoorDash, order received.
We are preparing your order.
Your order is ready.
Somebody's picking up your order.
Your order's on the way.
Two minutes away from you.
(21:06):
your order have a right or has a right.
So is there a way maybe that can be like a way to an AI agent that will tell the applicantyour resume has been read, your resume is under consideration, somebody will reach out to
you.
I think for this new service that we're planning that would be absolutely perfect and Iabsolutely love that idea, Jen.
(21:32):
At the executive level that we deal with such a small number
group of people that it's super high-pitch so we so they always know like from a realperson like here's what's happening here's what's next but for this other level I think it
would be fantastic I love it a defect here
(21:58):
You think all ideas are coming from here?
I'm just doing this.
And he's moving.
Anyway, are ready for the three questions?
Yes.
Okay, so here we go.
How do you respond to life?
Do you respond as a woman or do you man up?
(22:19):
As an entrepreneur.
Okay, so, true professions here, right?
I think that's why you guys picked me, is because I'm...
I have to say what I think.
So, I actually really, really, really love working with men.
I think I learn a lot from working with men in business.
(22:41):
Now, I also know that as a woman, I have some natural traits and instincts that help me.
And when I am, um even in my friendships, the women that I hang out with are strong,confident, no drama.
And I think that's actually why it's very easy for me to work with men, because men tendto be a little bit more, yes, no drama.
(23:06):
However, as I go through my career, I find that my female friendships and my femalementors and my female colleagues.
become more more more important to me.
I've learned a lot from men, but the relationships with the women are becoming moreprecious.
(23:27):
Wow.
So, this is outside of glyphs and strengths.
What are some of your specific strengths as a woman that makes you a successfulentrepreneur?
So, I already told you one of my superpowers is...
oh
seeing some things that might be coming down the pike and being able to implement them.
A fortune uh telling.
(23:52):
Another thing that I have found and we actually found this out through doing an assessmentfor our team is that my two big strengths in business are based on intuition and it was
really hard for me to own that because again I
Funny enough, I love math and I'm really, really good at logic.
And so I think it was hard for me to say that my two biggest strengths are based onintuition.
(24:17):
So one is called wonder.
So I'm very good at the big picture thinking.
I'm very good at why are we doing something?
What's the challenge we're addressing or what's the opportunity?
My team is very good at taking it across the line.
I have to make sure that with my wonder they're on the right playing field because they'lltake it across this line and I'll have to bring them back.
(24:42):
So that's one.
And the other one is discernment.
I'm really good at figuring out what's a good idea.
And I need data.
but I don't need a lot of data.
I am very ready.
Fire A.
very action oriented.
it's like, okay, well, I see the target over there fire.
(25:02):
Okay, missed it.
Just aim a little, okay, fire again.
Because I can't work with people who are ready aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim,
(25:28):
before I turn this over to Mohan to ask the final questions.
How do you, this is not only because you're a woman, this is applicable to men and women,how do you maintain mental strength even when you're down and depressed?
We're not free from depression or some mental health issues, right?
(25:49):
How do you maintain your mental strength?
2022.
My year started with COVID.
The bottom whole floor of my three-floor townhouse flooded.
I came home from speaking at a conference and my husband had had an aortic dissection.
(26:10):
We did not know that.
We thought he had had a heart attack.
The EMTs left him at our house.
They then took him to the hospital.
Got to the hospital.
An aortic dissection means you've got a rip in your aorta.
His was from above his heart down into his leg.
And he'd been sitting at our house for six hours with them.
Took him to the hospital.
(26:31):
Obviously surgery the next day.
The day after that, I ended up in the ER because I couldn't stop throwing up and that hadbeen going on for months.
Five days later, I brought my husband home hallucinated.
I brought home a six foot, 200 pound man who thought that there were people in his roomand battleships coming out of the ceiling.
(26:52):
And I mean, it's crazy.
Two days after that, we put my mom on hospice.
A month after that, I got diagnosed with Sjogren's syndrome.
A month after that, I needed a purple tunnel surgery.
My house was opened up to the studs.
The walls were out.
(27:13):
There was nothing.
We're living in this house now for six months like that.
I said, you know, I'm going to make this fun.
We're going to move out into an Airbnb for a month while they fix our house.
Did that.
While we were doing that, we decided to buy a new house so we could live near our kids inAustin.
Just about ready to move into that house.
(27:34):
This has only been like a seven month period.
And right as we're ready to move, the doctor says, you have breast cancer.
lost 25 pounds and everyone's telling me you're fine.
You're fine.
So we're about eight months into this and I'm just like
(27:56):
I had me in pride over my mom.
Because I'm a person who's like, if I got stuff to do, I got shit to do, I just get shitdone.
Because I can't stop and be worried about all this crap that has happened.
And I was like, how did I get through this year?
(28:19):
And I looked back and I said, by the grace of God.
by gratitude for everything I had.
guys, it was our best year ever in business.
We made more revenue that year than any other year.
My team is amazing.
I was so grateful.
(28:40):
And then, you know what?
Growing up on a farm teaches you a little bit of So I would say grace, and grit is how Iget through the tough times.
Excellent.
mean, it's amazing.
I think obviously people should learn from your confidence and involvement.
(29:08):
So what would you recommend to the audience here, entrepreneurs, how your experience, howthat can be improved?
Oh, that's the hard, you're right, he does ask the hardest ones.
uh
How could my experience benefit other people?
(29:34):
It's so funny because I'm always trying to think about how I can learn from them.
I will say that a couple of the things that I have learned is have courage in yourself.
Because without taking a risk, nothing's ever going to change.
(30:01):
I will say that I did learn that gratitude is a great healer because gratitude trulychanges your attitude.
And I learned that you have to ask for help and you have to rely on other people.
One of the hardest things in my business has been letting go.
I've created the leadership development line.
(30:23):
did all, I told everybody in my team, I don't know what you're doing today, I've done itbefore.
So guess what, you can't be asking me about it either.
But I had to learn to give those things up because if we're really going to grow and I'mgoing to be a leader and actually if you ask about women, what I see, this is harder for
women than men.
(30:44):
It's just hard for us to give up our babies that we've built and let someone else takethem and have us focus on bigger things.
And that's still a journey for me, but I have come a long way in that.
I'm really blessed to have been
led by great leaders and I'm really blessed to have been led by a really, really, reallycrummy leader.
(31:07):
And that's how I got really interested in leadership development.
So, I don't know, those might be some of the holes.
Of course, whenever I meet somebody, learn immensely.
What I learned from you, I think that the persistence and the courage to
(31:30):
look forward and do the thing.
all of us should do that.
Is that a statement?
Thank you, Mohan.
It's really funny.
One of our core values in our company is MOXIE.
And it's the one that everybody remembers.
And the reason we have it is for courage, persistence, and risk-taking.
That's what it means to us.
(31:51):
And if you don't have MOXIE, then there will be another company that's better for you thanours.
But thank you for noticing that.
That means the world to
That's what I learned from you.
I of course, I believe in it, but you are a living example of that.
Right?
Go through those continuous number of challenges and you survive.
(32:14):
That's amazing.
All the best for you.
you so much.
Thanks.
I just want to say when you first said how did you get by, how did you become successfulwhen we asked that and you said, we'll be gracing God.
(32:37):
My gosh, it's different after you shared your story.
At seven months old, we felt, we all felt it, you know.
So everyone, before I officially close the show, thank you very much for gracing our show.
Sally, thank you very much.
Let's give her a big round of applause.
(33:02):
We'll see you at the end of our next episode which will be on Zoom.
I'm Jan Crow and this is Michael.
you
Live from Charleston, South Carolina, this is the Gin and Mo show.
Take it away, Gin and Mo.
(00:30):
Thank you Mr.
Ken Evans and welcome.
Well I'll do this like I'm doing this on Instagram.
I want to introduce myself again.
Welcome to the visionary show.
I'm your host and pro and my co-host.
I'm Amanda.
I'm just an entrepreneur.
Yes, that's what he usually says.
(00:51):
I'm just an entrepreneur.
The thing about this show is that he's the beauty and the brain.
Do agree with that?
Anyway, so we have today a wonderful, wonderful guest.
She's more than a woman.
She's a wildly successful entrepreneur.
And when I say wildly, because it's hard to...
(01:12):
oh
It's hard to become a successful entrepreneur when you're a woman because we women, wetend to do a lot of things at the same time.
We're very good at multitasking, right?
You gotta be a mother, you gotta be an entrepreneur, you gotta tidy up the house, yougotta make sure the bed's done in the morning, all those things.
(01:34):
good cook.
Is that me?
we want to turn the spotlight on to our our guest today and thank you everyone that youare joining us here let us all welcome Ms.
Bryant.
Welcome to the show.
(01:54):
Thank you, Jen.
I appreciate that.
I will tell all of you that I think this is what happens when they say, OK, who wants todo this?
Take a step forward.
And all of you must have taken a step back.
Not sure.
But I know we're right after lunch.
So I'm going to try to keep it super interesting and exciting.
(02:15):
Don't make me dance.
You don't want to see it.
We're not going to do this.
Go ahead, Mr.
Nahama.
You can start asking questions.
Hi, Sally.
It's such a pleasure to meet you.
Thank you, Mom.
Maybe before we do anything, a very brief introduction about who you are.
(02:39):
I don't mean to interrupt you, but I am interrupting you.
Let's try to...
Yes, sir.
...put this closer to your mother.
Thanks.
Let me start again.
Yes.
Thank you, Sahil.
It's a great question to speak to you.
Before we start the program, would like you to give a brief introduction.
(03:02):
What you do, what your expertise is.
Just tell us about it.
I'm Sally Bryant, I'm the CEO of Bryant Group.
I am also co-founder and owner of the company.
And we fix leadership teams.
So if you have a gap in your leadership team, whether it's an open position or a cultureissue, we come in and help you fix that because leadership always affects the bottom line.
(03:32):
I will tell you, Jen you mentioned it's difficult to be a female entrepreneur.
I was telling someone earlier today,
I grew up five miles outside of a town of 500 people on a wheat farm in the middle ofnowhere and I did not know any professional females.
And most of the men I knew were farmers.
(03:54):
And so it's been an interesting journey to get here today and be with all the amazingpeople in this room.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
What made you to be where you are today?
The grace of God.
(04:15):
I am telling you, I knew at a certain point in my childhood that I would not be on thefarm.
There was something different, was something bigger, was something beyond.
I won't say better because growing up in that lifestyle was absolutely amazing andprobably still maybe one of the healthiest ways to grow up and to raise a family.
(04:40):
I just knew that there was something different and that I wanted to make an impact.
I am so passionate about helping people be their best version of themselves and to helptheir organizations be better.
And that's really what gets me out of bed in the morning.
I started my career actually my last semester of college.
(05:04):
I'm a really good student, but I don't like to be a student.
So instead of going to class, I did not go to one class.
My last class was at college.
Don't tell your students,
I did not go to class in one class.
I took an internship for course credit because I'm a worker.
I like to be productive.
(05:24):
I didn't want to be in class.
And that was the beginning of how I got to where I am today because that journey, that jobthat I took as an intern led to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing until
you can look back on your life and realize that your life prepared you for your life andeverything led to where I am today.
(05:47):
Before, Jen, one question I'd ask.
haven't asked it.
In your linking profile, you claim that you are an activator.
Can you explain what that means?
Yes, so that's actually for anybody who here is familiar with the Clifton Streaks.
(06:10):
So activator is one of my top five strengths.
And what that means to be an activator is I am really good at the big ideas and I'm reallygood at getting started and I better have a team around me to finish them up.
Excellent.
Well speaking of strengths, my top one is maximizer and so is thumbs.
(06:35):
I saw that one too.
But that's what I might talk about.
And we'll see number two.
Oh, I don't know what order you're doing.
Yeah, I remember my tough one and two maximizers.
Strategy, strategy, so right, so I think we're both about the
So back to you, I'm curious, did you just, you co-founded it with your husband, right?
(06:56):
Did you just start as a headhunter and then you just adult into leadership training?
Just most people just do the headhunting and finding people for companies and that getsdone.
You get a request, we're out.
So, um.
The two minute background is I actually started my career as a professional fundraiser atmy alma mater, Washington State University, Go Cougs.
(07:22):
And uh I went from there, after I had done that in several organizations and moved up intoleadership, I actually became a fundraising consultant.
During that journey, I had an opportunity to do an executive search and I absolutely lovedit.
But the funny thing is that my husband already had a company doing executive search in theexact same space.
(07:48):
And so when I joined his company, which you go into that funny story if we want at somepoint, but when I joined his company to do executive search, we were purely executive
search.
And he had been doing executive search in our space, focusing on professional fundraisingleaders.
since 1988.
And it wasn't until 2016, that's when I brought in the leadership consulting line where wehelp fix those leadership cultures because I could see a real need in our space.
(08:19):
We go into companies, into organizations, and the biggest problem affecting theirday-to-day work is leadership team issues.
Right?
People, they're really good at what they do, but they're not always really good at workingtogether as a team.
And as you probably most of you know, like team drama really takes up a lot of time andenergy which affects your bottom line.
(08:44):
So we were an executive search firm only, but I can see that we could serve our clients inthis related area still at the C-suite level and help them get better.
Okay, Demisa, I asked that, as you know I mentioned, usually you just do headhunting,right?
You place some leaders into the organization.
If you added
(09:05):
that component into what you're already doing.
This is something everyone of us can learn from her because you are, let's say you havethis particular offer, a primary offer, and if you add a complimentary, something
complimentary to that, then it can boost maybe the revenue of your company, thereputation.
(09:26):
Now that's my next question.
How do you accelerate the growth of your company by adding that component?
So we, first of all, I during COVID, it actually was really important because nobody washiring in 2020.
But everybody needed help figuring out how to make a decision in an environment thatthey've never been in.
(09:49):
And if you think about our clients, big universities, big hospitals, some of them are theonly game in town.
And if they decided like their students weren't going to come to campus that year, thatmeans that individual business owners like you and I may go out of business.
if we had a brick and mortar store, own a restaurant, we own a hotel.
(10:09):
So they're making decisions that are affecting not just their students, but they'reaffecting thousands of people's lives.
And so they were coming to us to help them make those decisions in a way that was filledwith integrity and to figure out how do you make those decisions.
So it's been interesting because that line has grown in our business like a hockey stick.
(10:30):
And the funny thing that we find though is that searches up, then usually leadership
development takes a little bit more of a backseat and when leadership development isreally high, search goes down a little bit.
But I do think it's been a huge part of our growth where we have quadrupled.
I think it was from 2020 until 2023 we quadrupled.
(10:51):
And I think that was a big piece of it.
Well, great.
It's quite interesting.
That vision came to you by observing the trends.
It's really funny you asked.
And by the way, I shouldn't say I think.
I know the numbers.
I mean, it was like you said it.
So one of my strengths that my team and I have identified in myself, you know, I alwaysknow your own strengths.
(11:18):
Because if it comes naturally to you, you're not aware of it.
So we brought in this leadership development piece.
Our competitor executive search firms out there weren't even thinking about it.
They weren't doing anything like this.
And they've brought it in in the last couple of years.
But one of my strengths is seeing trends in our industry and starting them before otherpeople.
(11:40):
And it's a very interesting strength that I never wanted to own until just recentlybecause it's not really based on data.
It's based, I don't know what it's based on.
ah
I don't know what it's based on.
I'm visionary.
You see it before others did.
Yeah, I just can't see.
And I don't always see them.
(12:01):
You know, like I should have known to invest in Zoom because we were already using it whenCOVID hit.
Zoom would have busted.
People say that because Zoom is now successful.
But if it had busted, they wouldn't even say that, oh, I should have invested in Zoom.
But I was already using it.
Most people have been using it.
Because we didn't vote before the pandemic.
We were already remote mic-teams.
(12:22):
That's
Anyway, I'll ask you the more intriguing questions later, so be ready.
I'll turn you over to the beauty.
Maybe you can distinguish between leadership development and leadership coaching.
(12:43):
Absolutely.
Great question.
usually when we say leadership coaching or executive coaching, we're usually talking aboutone-on-one coaching.
And we do that for leaders.
Leadership development is either team coaching.
So for example, we'll give assessments, we'll help figure out what the issues are, andthen we'll do workshops to help people work better together and overcome their own
(13:10):
specific issues.
The best type of leadership
development is combining the teamwork, the team coaching with individual coaching.
That's where we see the biggest differences and we're heavily reliant on assessments thathelp us show and help the team figure out if they're making progress.
(13:34):
Because these things that seem a little squishy, right, they seem a little hard tomeasure, they actually are measurable.
Can I have a four?
Well, you can have two more.
What makes you different from the rest of the group?
What makes us different from the competition?
Do you mean competition in executive services?
(13:58):
Okay.
So the first thing that makes us different from our main competitors is that we do what wecall the full talent life cycle.
So we solve leadership problems and a problem could be you have an empty seat and we'llfill it or a problem could be you don't have trust on your team and we're going to help
you fix that.
(14:19):
A problem could be we have a new person
but we don't have anyone to help them onboard.
So we can help you with onboard.
For example, we'll do coaching with a brand new college president who's never been apresident before.
We'll help them figure out how to do that.
We're different because we want to provide a full circle solution for anything that youneed at the C-suite level that needs help, that needs a problem solved.
(14:45):
Most of our competitors are 95 % executive search.
And um from what candidates tell us, and I do love some of my competitors, we'refrenemies, ah they're more transactional.
So that's the other thing on the executive search side.
In all of our business, we're relational.
(15:06):
Most people think of an executive search as transactional.
And candidates will tell you that they feel like a number or like a piece of livestock.
Because it's like, okay, well, we're going to put you, you, and you up there.
Okay, you, you, and you, you didn't get it.
Sometimes other firms, again, we have heard from our candidates, they're never even toldthat they didn't get the job.
(15:33):
They'll find out from seeing it on the internet.
What we do with our candidates is from day one.
is we get to know them and we want to make sure that this is as good for them as it is forthe organization.
How are you going to be able, not only how can you help them, how can they help you?
Is this a good move in your career?
(15:54):
Is this good for your family?
And one of the things that I am most proud of is that the number of testimonials we havefrom candidates who did not get the job.
who say, this changed my life.
You gave me confidence.
Thank you for believing in me.
Thank you for showing me things about myself I didn't know.
(16:15):
And so I had a potential podcast opportunity just a couple weeks ago and the gentlemansaid to me, oh, that's transactional.
And I just told him what I just told you and he said, okay, thank you very much.
We'll be in touch.
But that's great because you then you're not my kind of people because I am all about howcan we help people through relationship and I don't think you're always going to find that
(16:43):
in a search firm or even a leadership consulting firm.
uh
What's your plan for growth and when will you be doing the initial?
uh
(17:18):
So we started out as an executive search firm serving fundraising professionals.
So let me just give you some context.
Fundraising philanthropy in this country is a $400 billion business every year.
400 billion.
The people who are giving that money away are not corporations and foundations.
(17:41):
That's about 15 % of it.
85 % of it is people like you and me.
And most people don't know that there are...
thousands and thousands and thousands and probably millions of people who are working inthat industry.
So what they're doing is they're meeting with people, they're creating programs, they'reworking the IT, they're doing all the things that are the reason why these universities
(18:09):
have multi-billion dollar endowments.
Those don't just happen.
They happen because there are so many people working on that.
So we started in that space and what's happened in that space is
that when I graduated from college there were no programs that taught you how to be afundraising officer.
(18:29):
There are now over 300 degree and certificate programs in the US that will teach you howto do that.
That is because the demand has grown so fast that at the entry level fundraising positionsthere are
Hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of positions open in this country with no money tobuild up.
So we are creating a service that will do that.
(18:52):
It's not executive search.
You can't do it at the executive search level because the entry level salaries are nothigh enough to do that.
By the way, if you have kids graduating from college, this is fantastic.
career for them to go into.
is fantastic.
Benefits are great, salaries are good, the environment is, you know, the culture of theworkplaces is amazing.
(19:14):
You get to work with people like this, Let me ask one more question, do you use AI in yourwork?
How do you plan to use it in the future?
I love that question.
So we are working diligently in our company to incorporate it.
It's pretty
and it's a easier to incorporate it for efficiency than it is for creativity and efficacy.
(19:40):
But I've learned a lot here today and yesterday that we're going to be taking back tothem.
We use it in some basic ways you would expect.
We use it to draft proposals and draft marketing pieces and do some things like that.
also use it for, we have a massive database of these people that we recruit and we havehuge networks of relationships.
(20:01):
But we can also ask AI if you have this kind
job at this kind of place, where would you go to source candidates?
Because our candidates are not applicants.
We have to go out and get them.
We go out, it's when you get a phone call from that headhunter, says, I got a job, yougotta look at it.
You say, I'm not interested.
And what do I say, Chris?
You gotta be interested.
(20:21):
Trust me, just come look at it.
All right.
So that's what we do, so AI is great for that.
But here's the other thing, is our program, our service I just told you about, I don'tthink any of our competitors are even thinking about it, and we will be using AI to do it.
Well speaking of AI, I just had an AI idea for you, I don't know if you've already workingon it or if it's a good idea at all.
(20:45):
You know how when you order from DoorDash or UberEats or when you're actually processingyour visa to get into the United States, you go in a portal and you check the status and
it's just like DoorDash, order received.
We are preparing your order.
Your order is ready.
Somebody's picking up your order.
Your order's on the way.
Two minutes away from you.
(21:06):
your order have a right or has a right.
So is there a way maybe that can be like a way to an AI agent that will tell the applicantyour resume has been read, your resume is under consideration, somebody will reach out to
you.
I think for this new service that we're planning that would be absolutely perfect and Iabsolutely love that idea, Jen.
(21:32):
At the executive level that we deal with such a small number
group of people that it's super high-pitch so we so they always know like from a realperson like here's what's happening here's what's next but for this other level I think it
would be fantastic I love it a defect here
(21:58):
You think all ideas are coming from here?
I'm just doing this.
And he's moving.
Anyway, are ready for the three questions?
Yes.
Okay, so here we go.
How do you respond to life?
Do you respond as a woman or do you man up?
(22:19):
As an entrepreneur.
Okay, so, true professions here, right?
I think that's why you guys picked me, is because I'm...
I have to say what I think.
So, I actually really, really, really love working with men.
I think I learn a lot from working with men in business.
(22:41):
Now, I also know that as a woman, I have some natural traits and instincts that help me.
And when I am, um even in my friendships, the women that I hang out with are strong,confident, no drama.
And I think that's actually why it's very easy for me to work with men, because men tendto be a little bit more, yes, no drama.
(23:06):
However, as I go through my career, I find that my female friendships and my femalementors and my female colleagues.
become more more more important to me.
I've learned a lot from men, but the relationships with the women are becoming moreprecious.
(23:27):
Wow.
So, this is outside of glyphs and strengths.
What are some of your specific strengths as a woman that makes you a successfulentrepreneur?
So, I already told you one of my superpowers is...
oh
seeing some things that might be coming down the pike and being able to implement them.
A fortune uh telling.
(23:52):
Another thing that I have found and we actually found this out through doing an assessmentfor our team is that my two big strengths in business are based on intuition and it was
really hard for me to own that because again I
Funny enough, I love math and I'm really, really good at logic.
And so I think it was hard for me to say that my two biggest strengths are based onintuition.
(24:17):
So one is called wonder.
So I'm very good at the big picture thinking.
I'm very good at why are we doing something?
What's the challenge we're addressing or what's the opportunity?
My team is very good at taking it across the line.
I have to make sure that with my wonder they're on the right playing field because they'lltake it across this line and I'll have to bring them back.
(24:42):
So that's one.
And the other one is discernment.
I'm really good at figuring out what's a good idea.
And I need data.
but I don't need a lot of data.
I am very ready.
Fire A.
very action oriented.
it's like, okay, well, I see the target over there fire.
(25:02):
Okay, missed it.
Just aim a little, okay, fire again.
Because I can't work with people who are ready aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim,
(25:28):
before I turn this over to Mohan to ask the final questions.
How do you, this is not only because you're a woman, this is applicable to men and women,how do you maintain mental strength even when you're down and depressed?
We're not free from depression or some mental health issues, right?
(25:49):
How do you maintain your mental strength?
2022.
My year started with COVID.
The bottom whole floor of my three-floor townhouse flooded.
I came home from speaking at a conference and my husband had had an aortic dissection.
(26:10):
We did not know that.
We thought he had had a heart attack.
The EMTs left him at our house.
They then took him to the hospital.
Got to the hospital.
An aortic dissection means you've got a rip in your aorta.
His was from above his heart down into his leg.
And he'd been sitting at our house for six hours with them.
Took him to the hospital.
(26:31):
Obviously surgery the next day.
The day after that, I ended up in the ER because I couldn't stop throwing up and that hadbeen going on for months.
Five days later, I brought my husband home hallucinated.
I brought home a six foot, 200 pound man who thought that there were people in his roomand battleships coming out of the ceiling.
(26:52):
And I mean, it's crazy.
Two days after that, we put my mom on hospice.
A month after that, I got diagnosed with Sjogren's syndrome.
A month after that, I needed a purple tunnel surgery.
My house was opened up to the studs.
The walls were out.
(27:13):
There was nothing.
We're living in this house now for six months like that.
I said, you know, I'm going to make this fun.
We're going to move out into an Airbnb for a month while they fix our house.
Did that.
While we were doing that, we decided to buy a new house so we could live near our kids inAustin.
Just about ready to move into that house.
(27:34):
This has only been like a seven month period.
And right as we're ready to move, the doctor says, you have breast cancer.
lost 25 pounds and everyone's telling me you're fine.
You're fine.
So we're about eight months into this and I'm just like
(27:56):
I had me in pride over my mom.
Because I'm a person who's like, if I got stuff to do, I got shit to do, I just get shitdone.
Because I can't stop and be worried about all this crap that has happened.
And I was like, how did I get through this year?
(28:19):
And I looked back and I said, by the grace of God.
by gratitude for everything I had.
guys, it was our best year ever in business.
We made more revenue that year than any other year.
My team is amazing.
I was so grateful.
(28:40):
And then, you know what?
Growing up on a farm teaches you a little bit of So I would say grace, and grit is how Iget through the tough times.
Excellent.
mean, it's amazing.
I think obviously people should learn from your confidence and involvement.
(29:08):
So what would you recommend to the audience here, entrepreneurs, how your experience, howthat can be improved?
Oh, that's the hard, you're right, he does ask the hardest ones.
uh
How could my experience benefit other people?
(29:34):
It's so funny because I'm always trying to think about how I can learn from them.
I will say that a couple of the things that I have learned is have courage in yourself.
Because without taking a risk, nothing's ever going to change.
(30:01):
I will say that I did learn that gratitude is a great healer because gratitude trulychanges your attitude.
And I learned that you have to ask for help and you have to rely on other people.
One of the hardest things in my business has been letting go.
I've created the leadership development line.
(30:23):
did all, I told everybody in my team, I don't know what you're doing today, I've done itbefore.
So guess what, you can't be asking me about it either.
But I had to learn to give those things up because if we're really going to grow and I'mgoing to be a leader and actually if you ask about women, what I see, this is harder for
women than men.
(30:44):
It's just hard for us to give up our babies that we've built and let someone else takethem and have us focus on bigger things.
And that's still a journey for me, but I have come a long way in that.
I'm really blessed to have been
led by great leaders and I'm really blessed to have been led by a really, really, reallycrummy leader.
(31:07):
And that's how I got really interested in leadership development.
So, I don't know, those might be some of the holes.
Of course, whenever I meet somebody, learn immensely.
What I learned from you, I think that the persistence and the courage to
(31:30):
look forward and do the thing.
all of us should do that.
Is that a statement?
Thank you, Mohan.
It's really funny.
One of our core values in our company is MOXIE.
And it's the one that everybody remembers.
And the reason we have it is for courage, persistence, and risk-taking.
That's what it means to us.
(31:51):
And if you don't have MOXIE, then there will be another company that's better for you thanours.
But thank you for noticing that.
That means the world to
That's what I learned from you.
I of course, I believe in it, but you are a living example of that.
Right?
Go through those continuous number of challenges and you survive.
(32:14):
That's amazing.
All the best for you.
you so much.
Thanks.
I just want to say when you first said how did you get by, how did you become successfulwhen we asked that and you said, we'll be gracing God.
(32:37):
My gosh, it's different after you shared your story.
At seven months old, we felt, we all felt it, you know.
So everyone, before I officially close the show, thank you very much for gracing our show.
Sally, thank you very much.
Let's give her a big round of applause.
(33:02):
We'll see you at the end of our next episode which will be on Zoom.
I'm Jan Crow and this is Michael.
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