April 17, 2025 • 30 mins
We welcome our third special guest, Dr. Annie Cole!
Dr. Annie Cole, Ed.D., is an expert educator turned financial coach who teaches women how to master all areas of their finances, from budgeting and paying off debt to investing, building wealth, and retiring early. After spending 11 years developing and teaching courses to students and adults, she turned her educational focus to financial education with the goal of making complex financial topics simple for the everyday person.
Personally, Annie has experienced her own financial transformation over the last decade. In her 20s, Annie was a burnt-out social worker struggling on a $26,000 salary. By her 30s, she had climbed the ladder to a Vice President role, invested over $380k, owned $1 million in real estate, and cut 20 years off her retirement date.
Today, she runs Money Essentials for Women, an online financial resource center for women, and inspires women to step into new levels of money mastery and confidence. Learn more about her work at www.money-essentials.com or on Instagram @build.wealth.with.annie.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome, everyone.
(00:01):
Welcome back to
The Wealth Effect.
Today, we have our third
special guest, Dr. Annie Cole.
She is an expert educator turned finance
coach who teaches women how to master all
areas of their finances, from budgeting
and paying off debt to investing,
building wealth,
and retiring early.
In her 20s, Annie was a burnt-out social
(00:24):
worker, struggling on a $26,000 salary.
But in her 30s, she climbed the ladder
to a vice president role, investing over
$380,000 and owning over a
million dollars in real estate.
Now she runs Money Essentials for Women,
an online financial resource center for
women and inspiring women to step into new
(00:45):
levels of money mastery and confidence.
Thank you for being on
the show, Dr. Annie.
Thanks for
having me.
I'm excited
to be here.
One of the first questions I want to start
off with is, how has growing up in a small
town influenced
your dreams?
Because I come from a big city, and
I feel here in Chicago, most people
(01:06):
have big dreams.
But I would like to know how it
comes from being a small town.
Yeah, that's a
great question.
You know, growing up in a small town, I
remember thinking a lot
about my small town.
I think that's one of the things, for
better or for worse, you really have a
small world.
You have your family,
you have your friends.
(01:26):
You know, my graduating
class was only 60 people.
So you are very focused on
what's happening in your town.
And as I remember leaving and going off
to college and getting more exposed,
I feel like I was exposed to a lot
of different worldviews, different
experiences, even just
more physical things.
You know, going to a city, you have
all these shops and all these people,
(01:47):
and it just opened
my eyes a lot.
So I think, when I think about my career
and money, it was just, it was very much
related to my family and friends
and my personal experience.
I think the first thing I wanted to become
was a veterinarian, because I had animals
and loved them.
And then as a teenager, I had acne,
so I wanted to become a dermatologist.
And then by the time I graduated,
I wanted to become a counselor.
(02:07):
So, yeah, it was very much that small
town, personal life that got shifted a lot
when I moved out.
And in your family and within friends,
did you talk a lot about money,
or was it not
really a big topic?
No, I don't remember
talking about money at all.
My hairdresser, my stepdad,
worked at the school.
(02:29):
I don't remember ever
really talking about money.
It was just kind of a given that money was
coming in and my family was taken care of.
And then I remember talking
with my dad a little bit.
He loved to trade in the
stock market when I was a kid.
But I honestly, I don't remember
paying a whole lot of attention.
I would just listen to him a little bit
and never really followed the advice too
(02:51):
much when I
was younger.
So, yeah, it just, it was not a topic
we talked about a lot in my family.
That's interesting because most, most
younger people now want to bring up
money topics to children because they're
seeing the world that not learning about
money at a young age creates a really,
a really big disadvantage for their kids
when it comes to like preparing for
(03:12):
college or growing up in this world where
things keep costing more
and more as time goes on.
Yeah, I will, I'll add, you know,
to my parents' credit, I think they
definitely brought up opportunities to
teach me about money when they happen.
So, for example, my mom had a hair salon
and she asked if I wanted to set up a
candy dispenser in her hair
(03:32):
salon, which was really cool.
So she helped me buy it and then I had to
buy the candy and I would take out all the
quarters and realize, oh, I have to spend
75% of my quarters to buy more candy.
I really only get to
keep this small profit.
So there were some moments like that where
they taught me some valuable
lessons about money.
And that is a really cool
lesson to learn as a kid.
And then going off of like leaving your
(03:54):
small town for college, how, how was that
feeling of being like a first
generation college student?
Like, how did
you finance it?
How did you feel leaving
to a bigger place?
It was, it was
interesting.
So I thought I want to go off to a school
far away, not trying to escape my family
(04:14):
by any means, but I just thought I'm ready
to go out there and try something new.
So I moved from Oregon down to Los
Angeles, went to school and actually I
decided to go to a private school at
the time, paid a lot out of pocket.
I did get some scholarships, but had
some money, thankfully from my parents,
helped me pay for school that first year,
but realized I was paying, I think it was
(04:36):
maybe 13,000 or 16,000
a semester for tuition.
So it was pretty
expensive.
And I remember having a conversation with
my mom and with my dad separately after
that first semester, just saying,
Hey, is this, do you really want to
continue to
take out loans?
You're going to
run out of money.
Do you want to do that
to go to school here?
And I ended up transferring and going to a
(04:57):
state school back in Oregon and getting a
lot of scholarships.
And also the
tuition was so low.
So I ended up leaving with not a
lot of student loan debt at all.
And I'm really, really glad I made that
decision because I, I, if they wouldn't
have pushed me a little bit to think about
it, I think I maybe would
have gone into more debt.
And nowadays I just think that's, it's
(05:18):
not worth it to go in that much debt
for a degree.
Yeah.
Especially with state schools being a
better value for a lot of the things,
even if it's not as a recognizable name,
the information is still just as good.
Yeah.
And I don't know about you, but I have
not found, when I've applied to jobs,
they're never looking
(05:38):
at my university name.
Really.
If you go to an Ivy League school,
it might make a difference.
But if you're going to a state school
versus another state school, they're not
going to care.
Yeah.
And most, uh, it's about
like your extracurriculars.
What have you
done outside?
Maybe your grades, but not really the
school name itself, unless it's a really
big name, like you mentioned,
like Harvard or big schools.
Yeah, exactly.
(06:00):
And in school, is that where you like
develop your passion for wealth or how did
that come about?
It, it didn't
happen in school.
So I thought I'm going to go to school,
you know, I was on the counselor track at
that point.
So I thought I'm going to get my
bachelor's degree in psychology.
I'm going to go do
counseling work.
So, um, instead of going right into my
master's, which you have to get to become
a clinical counselor, I thought I'm
(06:21):
just going to go into social work.
So I started
doing social work.
I was making that $26,000 salary and I
realized I'm really going to have a hard
time paying for a house, saving up, uh,
paying for kids, saving
for anything I wanted.
So I feel like that's when I kind of
started that journey of thinking about
what's next.
I made a pivot into
working out of college.
(06:41):
I went back to school and got my
master's, went, continued to go to school,
got my doctorate and just
a lot of things shifted.
I continued to
change jobs.
I climbed the ladder, I learned how to
advocate for myself and along the way,
I read a lot of
financial books.
Honestly, a lot of my knowledge just came
from reading and talking to other people
and it was picking up a little trick here
(07:02):
and there, like, Oh, instead of a savings
account, put your money in a high yield
savings account, or instead of letting
your money sit in savings, invest it in
the stock market, which will grow by about
10% every year.
So each little thing started to add up
to now having this really robust overall
understanding of
how finances work.
And did you feel like
overwhelmed when first starting?
(07:22):
Like, or did you take it
at a small step at a time?
It felt
overwhelming.
I will say, and I don't know if other
people feel this way, but when you don't
make a lot of money, when you're making
$26,000, it just feels like there's no way
out because you can't
do anything else.
You can't save, you can't invest if
you don't have any money coming in.
And if you already went to school and got
(07:42):
a degree, you already did what you were
supposed to do.
So what is the
next option?
And I would say that's where I actually
learned a lot about advocating or,
you know, I share this story often about
how I went from at one
point I was making $32,000.
I applied for a job that
was going to pay $60,000.
So it's those moments where you jump
in your career and make
(08:04):
significant pay increases.
And you can do that over and over and
over again to really increase your income.
So there's a lot of ways to increase
income, but I think that's the hardest is
when you first start just thinking,
where the heck do I even start?
Yeah.
What would you give some tips for some
beginners, like just hearing the podcast
and wanting to start but aren't really
feeling confident or feeling sure of what
(08:24):
they should be
looking for or doing?
I think the number one place to start is
actually with your own personal vision.
And I feel like this is missed a
lot when we think about finances.
We automatically think side hustle,
savings account, investing,
or getting a new job.
But you should back up a step, grab
a piece of paper and write down where
(08:45):
do you want to be in the
next five to 10 years?
What is
your vision?
What is the income
you want to make?
Do you want to
make $100,000?
Do you want to
make $50,000?
Do you want to
raise two kids?
Do you want to live in a
house that is $600,000?
You know, write down some of those numbers
and that can start to
inform from there what you
want to do.
So if you want to live in this house
and live in this city and do this thing,
(09:07):
okay, now how much will
that lifestyle cost?
Let's create a
budget for that.
Okay, to live that lifestyle,
I would need to make $80,000.
I'm currently
at 50.
I need to start getting this certificate
or networking with these people to then
move up the ladder.
So, you know, when you start with
that vision, it just gives you more,
I think, motivation and clarity instead of
just saying, ah, I'm going to budget and
(09:28):
I'm going to save and I'm trying to
apply for jobs, but it feels like
discombobulated and it's not, you
don't know really where you're going.
Yeah.
And how would you, how would you
advise someone to keep motivated?
Because failure happens or you miss a
couple of days and then it just builds out
the habit already.
You like miss it,
like, oh, whatever.
I'll try
another time.
Yeah, I think
(09:48):
two things.
Number one is really having, again, that
vision and a clear why, because that
will keep you
motivated.
You know, when you really want to lose
weight and you're at the point that you
think, okay, I'm going to get up and run
every day because I'm sick
of being in this body.
You have this
deep value of why.
So the same goes with your finances
(10:08):
and then put that everywhere.
Put it on the background of your phone,
put something on the background of your
computer, you know, put sticky notes
around, put up things to remind you.
So that would
be number one.
And then number two, build
your accountability system.
So tell your friends, tell your family,
tell your partner, and
not everyone is going to
support you.
So find the people who will support you,
have them be your accountability partner,
(10:29):
talk to them often about your goals,
have them asking you questions and
celebrating with you because
that's going to keep you going too.
It can be really hard as I'm sure you can
imagine when you're trying to do it alone.
It's just a lot
more difficult.
Yeah, it is.
And how would you define like a
money mindset in terms of that, like,
to get everything together to make sure
you have that, not only like willpower,
(10:51):
but that mindset of like, this
is what I'm going to aim for.
Hmm.
Hmm.
I think start, start without
a lot of judgment on yourself.
Because I think we, we think we have
to have this perfect thing done.
If you just start letting yourself dream a
little bit and think this is what I want.
I think you'll naturally develop that
(11:12):
mindset because you might not have any
ideas right now or you might have
some, but they're not really clear.
So the more you let yourself dream and you
start writing them down, I think the more
clarity and naturally you'll build a
different money mindset that will keep you
motivated and thinking
about where you want to go.
Yeah, that's
definitely right.
And I also think about the idea of like
asking for help, not only from like
(11:33):
friends and family, but also looking for
programs that offer government assistance.
If you are making a low income, how
do you think you would help someone to
like get that stigma or that shame feeling
from getting help from these programs to
give yourself a better start to
like pursue your financial future?
(11:54):
I think we all have to remember
that we all start somewhere.
So we all start with, you know,
maybe your parents had money.
Maybe they didn't.
Maybe you went
and got a degree.
Maybe you didn't.
So start where you're at and
there's no shame in that.
And then Google
is your friend.
Go online, Google, Google
financial resources.
If you need support and you have a lower
(12:14):
income, there are tons of
social resources available.
You know, there's food stamps,
income supplement rental assistance.
If you're at the midpoint and you want
to focus on, you know, potentially career
growth, connect with
a career expert.
If you're at the higher end and you have
a lot of income coming in, maybe it's time
to meet with a wealth advisor
or an investment manager.
(12:34):
So it depends
wherever you're at.
You can find the support that you need
to just take you that little next step
further in your
financial journey.
Yeah.
And how do you think?
It's different for a financial journey
for, let's say, a woman compared to a man,
because I know I've seen I've seen like
different online resources geared to
(12:54):
different people
just as you do.
I want to know what's
your perspective on that.
I think there's a
lot of differences.
And I'm, you know,
very thoughtful.
I've worked with men and women, and
there are a lot of men who also have
not had a background
in financial education.
They don't know, you know, what to do with
their money just because they're an adult
does not mean you know how
to do stuff with your money.
(13:15):
But, you know, there are just so many
women who don't know how to do the most
with their money.
And then also, I feel like for women,
there's this stigma that wanting money is
shameful or something
to be embarrassed about.
You know, women have not always
been focused on their career.
They've been
homemakers.
So there's just a lot of pieces in the
history of women's rights and what women
(13:37):
have had access to that puts women in a
place where there's a higher majority that
just don't have access
to this information.
So that's why my focus is women
and financial education, really the
foundational tips on how to set up
a savings account, how to invest,
you know, how to think about
retirement, how to get the job you want.
That kind of stuff is just
so life changing for women.
(13:57):
So no matter who you are, if you're
a man or a woman, it's important.
But if you're a woman, especially, it
can just be so empowering
to get that education.
Yeah, it does.
And I've seen like where it helps them
make not only better life choices,
but be more aware of their situation,
because I've seen like some people don't
leave their partners because
(14:18):
of like the economics of it.
Like they don't make enough
money, so they can't really leave.
So they have to stay in
those type of situations.
And money does provide like a freedom
to have these options open to make sure
you're OK and
doing your best.
Absolutely.
Yeah, my first job when I started in
social work was actually working with
(14:39):
women who were experiencing domestic
violence, and that's
exactly what would happen.
It was really hard, especially women who
were raising children and had been in a
home where the man or the
partner was making all the money.
And it's really, really
hard to be able to leave.
So it's not only knowing how to get work
and have an income, but then the basics of
how to access your own savings account
(14:59):
and setting up a credit card or getting an
auto loan, getting
home insurance.
It's all the things that you would need
to be independent, which is not to say you
shouldn't share those
things with your partner.
But if you are in a partnership and you
feel like I just don't even know what I
would do if my partner left, it might be
time to think about learning a little bit
more about some of the financial basics,
just so you feel confident and know what
(15:20):
you would need to do, whether they left or
if they got hurt or anything else came up.
Yeah.
And what would you say, like some of
the best financial tips that you have?
Because I know you also
have written a book on that.
Can you share
more about that?
Oh, I could go.
I could talk about
that for hours.
So my book is 101
Ways to Build Wealth.
I actually give away e-copies
(15:42):
for free on my website.
So if you're listening,
it's money-essentials.com.
I give it away for free again because my
vision is just that any woman who wants it
would get access to
financial education.
So it's 101
different tips.
Some of them are
really simple tips.
Some of them are
more advanced.
But, you know, things like if you're going
to put money in your retirement account,
(16:03):
knowing the difference
between a 401k and a Roth.
So a 401k is putting in money now
and getting a tax benefit now.
A Roth is putting money in now where
you're paying taxes on the income,
but then not paying taxes on
it when you pull it out later.
You know, that can be so impactful for
someone that wants to
think about their taxes.
And do you want
to save money now?
(16:23):
Do you want to
save money later?
What are the
differences?
So that is just one of, you know, a
hundred different tips that I share.
And each one of those can dramatically
change the outcome of your finances.
Yeah.
And I'll have I'll have links below of
all your like books and
resources to your website.
And then going off of
that tip about taxes.
I think that's one important thing people
(16:45):
always overlook, like understanding or
learning some tax information, because
it's not just about
how much you earn.
It's about how much you keep and how
you plan to keep it all together.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think, you know, no one is staying
up late at night reading tax code.
I'm sure no one wants
to be doing that.
(17:06):
It can be dry.
It can be boring.
So if that's the case, either if you're
interested, do some research, start to get
educated on just the
basics of how taxes work.
If you don't want to become an expert,
find someone who can be your tax expert.
So if you just want to do your taxes
online, you have a simple tax return,
do your TurboTax.
That's
totally fine.
But if it's getting complicated,
(17:26):
you are trying to run a business,
you have kids,
you have a home.
Definitely meet with someone who can
actually help you plan your taxes,
because you may
pay that person.
For example, let's say it's somewhere
between five hundred
to a thousand dollars.
You might pay that much for
your tax person to help you.
But you might save five thousand, ten
thousand dollars in owed taxes or as a
(17:48):
refund because you
paid that money.
So be really careful to not keep yourself
from getting a benefit just because
something costs
for the help.
A lot of times the help actually gives
you a financial reward that's even greater
than the cost.
Yeah, because I worked as an accountant
for a couple of years and I prepare my own
taxes, but I have my own
CPA to file them for me.
Because even though I worked as an
(18:09):
accountant and did taxes,
I'm not that smart.
I'm not the
smartest person.
I need a second opinion to make
sure that everything is right.
And it actually does help a lot
because I'm like, oh, I did this.
But they're like, oh, you
could do a better way this way.
I'm like, oh, OK, like I didn't even
though I studied it, it
didn't cross my mind.
So it's always good to go get help,
even if it's just one time like and you
(18:31):
won't do it for
like next year.
Just having them explain everything to
you is like a world of help when trying to
understand like your taxes
and how it all works.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And like you said, even going once,
like if you a lot of CPAs, certified
public accountants, tax strategists,
certified financial planners, all of these
(18:53):
folks, a lot of times will meet with you
to do a free consultation
to see if you're a fit for
their services.
So if you are worried about the financial
side of what it costs, meet with someone,
ask them questions, get the answers to
find out if they're actually going to be
able to help you.
And oftentimes you
can do that for free.
And then if it does cost money, like
you mentioned, go do it at least
once, understand the process, and then
(19:14):
you can do it on your own
really in just a smart way
moving forward.
Yeah, because even if you try to search
things online, sometimes the information
can be very like spread out or not as
reliable as actually going to someone
that's licensed.
Because there are some tips on YouTube
and I've seen some really good tips.
I'm like, oh yeah, like that's
(19:35):
very specific, very niche.
But other tips, I'm
like, that's wrong.
Like that could be misinforming to people
and get people into a lot of trouble when
it comes to taxes or doing business and
income where they thought they were safe
if they did
this or that.
And I think that overwhelms a lot of
people too, when starting businesses and
other ventures trying to set up that they
(19:56):
don't understand some of the rules and
regulations.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's why I find that when you find
someone, when you connect with someone who
could be your financial planner or your
tax strategist, they're the people that
pull all the pieces
together for you.
So they're going to look at your
retirement, your income, your savings,
(20:17):
your debt, and they're going to help
tell you, okay, based on all of this,
this is the best
route to go.
Or, you know, for this,
we should do this.
But if we really want to focus on this
this year, let's go in this direction.
So they're pulling those pieces together
rather than, like you said, you might
just, you know, watch a YouTube video and
it says, hey, you can save
$10,000 in your taxes.
Well, maybe you can,
maybe you can't.
(20:38):
Like, do you
have kids?
Do you live in the
state of Washington?
So it's always very
context specific.
And you offer a
one-on-one coaching.
How does that look like when approaching a
client and the services
you would provide to them?
Yeah.
So I love doing
one-on-one coaching.
I have two
different offerings.
So either I meet with folks and we
(20:59):
do one 90 minute financial session.
So what that looks like is once they sign
up with me, I send them a spreadsheet and
they fill it out
on their own.
And it covers every single
piece of their finances.
So their income, any side hustles,
their credit cards, their debt,
their retirement, their home,
everything that they have.
And then we meet for 90 minutes and we
look at each piece of that and we talk
(21:21):
through their goals and then create action
steps on what they can do next to move
towards their goals based on
their entire holistic picture.
If people want to continue working with
me, so if we identify a lot of pieces and
they're like, oh, I want to create
a debt strategy to pay off my debt.
Oh, I also, I really want to, you know,
spruce up my resume because I do want to
focus on bringing
in more income.
Then we can have multiple sessions after
(21:43):
that to hone in on specific pieces.
But that 90 minute session is really where
we just set the groundwork to look at
everything and people walk away with an
entire spreadsheet of their financial
picture, which
is really cool.
Yeah, because I feel like a lot of people
like forget what bank accounts they have,
the type of subscriptions
they might have.
Like they need to first get it pieced all
(22:04):
together and then having a fresh pair of
eyes, the more trained eyes to see, oh,
you might be able to do this with it.
And like really get a good sense of you're
not in as deep as trouble as you might
feel like and there's
hope for everything.
And I think that's another piece that a
lot of people forget about is the hope
that their situation
(22:25):
isn't forever.
And do you like talk
to clients about that?
And not just like the financial
piece, but the hope piece?
That is so crucial.
And almost every time I meet with a
client, it is not just the numbers.
It's emotional.
It's your
personal life.
Your numbers are reflecting your ability
of either what you did in the past.
If you're in debt, your ability to earn in
(22:47):
the future based on if you got a degree or
you chose this or
that career path.
It's very personal.
So we're constantly talking about
feelings about money and then decisions.
So how do we have our feelings
about money and process that?
But also what decisions should we make to
move forward to get to
where we want to be?
Whether that is an easy next
step or a hard next step.
(23:08):
We just kind of lay
all of that out there.
Yeah, I think people need these easy step
guides because it's hard to get into a
groove when the information
they provide or the...
Like, let's say the steps are
very complex, very in-depth.
(23:28):
They feel
overwhelming.
And I think it's like a lot of people
aren't financially literate
as they wish to be.
So I think starting off
very low level is good.
And I think like for a lot of communities
here in the United States, financial
literacy hasn't been a priority in
schools or for most like places.
What do you think would help like our
(23:50):
communities be more financially literate
to, even if they don't go to college,
be more financially successful?
I think having a financial education
in schools would be incredible.
So if we did have that be a part of the
curriculum, especially in high school,
I feel like at that
point, if we have...
And I'm sure some schools do focus on it,
but having some sort of basic financial
(24:12):
topics, saving, income, budgeting,
retirement, those would be awesome.
And then I think just I wish more people
knew that they could
take those tiny steps.
So, for example, I was just talking
yesterday to a reporter about how if you
are in credit card debt and you can't make
(24:33):
your payment, you can call the credit card
company and they can either,
number one, lower your interest.
Number two, they can reduce your
payments and put you on an extended plan,
so smaller
monthly payments.
Number three, they can give you a total
pause on payments altogether and not have
you earn any interest
due to hardship.
Most people don't even know that that's
possible or they get into medical debt and
(24:53):
they don't know that they can call and
advocate for themselves and try to figure
out some options.
So those quick little steps, I think the
more we can share that, I think there's a
lot of good
media coming out.
There's a lot of financial
educators and influencers out there.
So I think that's just a really great
movement, but also embedding it into
financial education into high
(25:13):
schools, I think would be huge.
Yeah, because I'm starting to see like the
younger people are becoming more aware of
how hard it is to earn money, even though
they're seeing influencers earn these like
hundreds of thousands or millions
of dollars through online media.
They need to
recognize that.
Yeah.
That's very, that's very rare to see
(25:33):
these people are like one in a billion to
actually earn this
amount of money.
They should be able to like get more
realistic approaches that if they do want
to be an influencer to be, oh, I've
probably earned 60,000 and to not be
having these like, I would say like kind
of like delusional ideas that they're
(25:53):
going to be millionaires
in a few years.
Yeah, I know.
I think I, I am very
thoughtful about that.
I do on my
social media.
Anyone who checks me out will see that I
started on that $26,000 salary and then
have a million dollar net
worth and reach that by 35.
And now I'm 36.
So I do share that online to share,
(26:14):
you know, real stories
of how that happened.
But also that did
not happen easily.
And that did not
happen by accident.
That is through lots of strategic
planning, lots of hard work.
And you do not just become a millionaire
or make $100,000 every
year on average easily.
The average American income, I think
(26:35):
this year in 2025 is $55,000 or $65,000.
I'm not sure
if you know.
Yeah, that's the
right amount rate.
That's average, you know,
that's what people need to hear.
That is normal.
And also, everything
is very expensive.
Our groceries
are expensive.
Our housing
is expensive.
So making a normal salary and paying
normal mortgage payment, normal grocery,
normal car payment is
(26:55):
almost a wash these days.
So the more we can help people figure
out how to bump their salary up is really
important and how to
keep expenses low.
But also the average, the average is a
very thin line of financial
benefit at this time.
It's kind of a
hard place to be.
Yeah, it is.
And I think also opening them to the idea
(27:15):
of like different streams of income that
aren't as glorified as they see
on social media, like real estate.
Like I have a rental property
that is hard to manage.
It's like there's a lot of repairs,
but I chose it because it
had a lot of potential.
And people don't see that
every day there's work.
Every day there's
a problem.
They just see like
(27:36):
quick reference.
Oh, I did this.
And it's not
that simple.
It's always
managing it.
Always have it on your mind of like how to
get more income or something went wrong.
You got to have some outside
knowledge aside from finance.
Yeah.
Well, and again, I think that's why
it's so important to find mentors.
(27:56):
Find people that you can be your financial
planner, your tax expert, your career
coach, your mentor.
Spending a little bit of money to get
that support is going to really help you
because those people already did what you
want to do and they can help walk the path
before you.
I would not be where I am today if I
didn't have so many amazing teachers,
(28:17):
mentors, planners
in my life.
And it, I mean,
that's where it's at.
You can read a lot, but when you hear a
real life story from someone and they,
you know, they talk to you every week
and they say, hey, you're doing this,
but actually you need
to focus in here.
Or have you thought about reframing the
way you're presenting yourself or changing
up this product or changing up your resume
that those little bits of feedback make a
(28:37):
world of a
difference.
And different mentors
specialize in different things.
Your same mentor for, let's say,
investing in a stock market isn't the same
one for real estate, even
though they're investment.
Exactly.
They all specialize in different
things and they would give you as much
information, one thing, but
might be clueless in another.
And it's always good to know where to
reach out and for a specific reason.
(28:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you have any other
words for our audience?
I really liked what you
said about just having hope.
I think when it comes to your finances,
know that there are so many amazing
strategies out there.
Your past is not the
predictor of your future.
I can confidently tell you, as someone
(29:21):
who came out making $26,000, my path was
small-town girl, first-gen student,
this is going to be my path.
And it's not
where I ended up.
So you can totally
change your trajectory.
Have hope that
that's possible.
Connect with planners, mentors,
people who can help you get there.
And be really vulnerable and
share where you want to go.
Have that vision and get the
(29:42):
help you need to get there.
And you will be amazed at
what you can accomplish.
Well said.
Thank you for being
on the podcast.
Really informative.
All your links, books, everything
will be linked in the show notes.
If you want to reach out to Dr. Annie,
we'll make sure that you're in contact.
(30:03):
Awesome.
Thank you so much
for having me.
I really
appreciated it.
Thank you for
being on the show.
Thank you for
being on the show.
Welcome, everyone.
(00:01):
Welcome back to
The Wealth Effect.
Today, we have our third
special guest, Dr. Annie Cole.
She is an expert educator turned finance
coach who teaches women how to master all
areas of their finances, from budgeting
and paying off debt to investing,
building wealth,
and retiring early.
In her 20s, Annie was a burnt-out social
(00:24):
worker, struggling on a $26,000 salary.
But in her 30s, she climbed the ladder
to a vice president role, investing over
$380,000 and owning over a
million dollars in real estate.
Now she runs Money Essentials for Women,
an online financial resource center for
women and inspiring women to step into new
(00:45):
levels of money mastery and confidence.
Thank you for being on
the show, Dr. Annie.
Thanks for
having me.
I'm excited
to be here.
One of the first questions I want to start
off with is, how has growing up in a small
town influenced
your dreams?
Because I come from a big city, and
I feel here in Chicago, most people
(01:06):
have big dreams.
But I would like to know how it
comes from being a small town.
Yeah, that's a
great question.
You know, growing up in a small town, I
remember thinking a lot
about my small town.
I think that's one of the things, for
better or for worse, you really have a
small world.
You have your family,
you have your friends.
(01:26):
You know, my graduating
class was only 60 people.
So you are very focused on
what's happening in your town.
And as I remember leaving and going off
to college and getting more exposed,
I feel like I was exposed to a lot
of different worldviews, different
experiences, even just
more physical things.
You know, going to a city, you have
all these shops and all these people,
(01:47):
and it just opened
my eyes a lot.
So I think, when I think about my career
and money, it was just, it was very much
related to my family and friends
and my personal experience.
I think the first thing I wanted to become
was a veterinarian, because I had animals
and loved them.
And then as a teenager, I had acne,
so I wanted to become a dermatologist.
And then by the time I graduated,
I wanted to become a counselor.
(02:07):
So, yeah, it was very much that small
town, personal life that got shifted a lot
when I moved out.
And in your family and within friends,
did you talk a lot about money,
or was it not
really a big topic?
No, I don't remember
talking about money at all.
My hairdresser, my stepdad,
worked at the school.
(02:29):
I don't remember ever
really talking about money.
It was just kind of a given that money was
coming in and my family was taken care of.
And then I remember talking
with my dad a little bit.
He loved to trade in the
stock market when I was a kid.
But I honestly, I don't remember
paying a whole lot of attention.
I would just listen to him a little bit
and never really followed the advice too
(02:51):
much when I
was younger.
So, yeah, it just, it was not a topic
we talked about a lot in my family.
That's interesting because most, most
younger people now want to bring up
money topics to children because they're
seeing the world that not learning about
money at a young age creates a really,
a really big disadvantage for their kids
when it comes to like preparing for
(03:12):
college or growing up in this world where
things keep costing more
and more as time goes on.
Yeah, I will, I'll add, you know,
to my parents' credit, I think they
definitely brought up opportunities to
teach me about money when they happen.
So, for example, my mom had a hair salon
and she asked if I wanted to set up a
candy dispenser in her hair
(03:32):
salon, which was really cool.
So she helped me buy it and then I had to
buy the candy and I would take out all the
quarters and realize, oh, I have to spend
75% of my quarters to buy more candy.
I really only get to
keep this small profit.
So there were some moments like that where
they taught me some valuable
lessons about money.
And that is a really cool
lesson to learn as a kid.
And then going off of like leaving your
(03:54):
small town for college, how, how was that
feeling of being like a first
generation college student?
Like, how did
you finance it?
How did you feel leaving
to a bigger place?
It was, it was
interesting.
So I thought I want to go off to a school
far away, not trying to escape my family
(04:14):
by any means, but I just thought I'm ready
to go out there and try something new.
So I moved from Oregon down to Los
Angeles, went to school and actually I
decided to go to a private school at
the time, paid a lot out of pocket.
I did get some scholarships, but had
some money, thankfully from my parents,
helped me pay for school that first year,
but realized I was paying, I think it was
(04:36):
maybe 13,000 or 16,000
a semester for tuition.
So it was pretty
expensive.
And I remember having a conversation with
my mom and with my dad separately after
that first semester, just saying,
Hey, is this, do you really want to
continue to
take out loans?
You're going to
run out of money.
Do you want to do that
to go to school here?
And I ended up transferring and going to a
(04:57):
state school back in Oregon and getting a
lot of scholarships.
And also the
tuition was so low.
So I ended up leaving with not a
lot of student loan debt at all.
And I'm really, really glad I made that
decision because I, I, if they wouldn't
have pushed me a little bit to think about
it, I think I maybe would
have gone into more debt.
And nowadays I just think that's, it's
(05:18):
not worth it to go in that much debt
for a degree.
Yeah.
Especially with state schools being a
better value for a lot of the things,
even if it's not as a recognizable name,
the information is still just as good.
Yeah.
And I don't know about you, but I have
not found, when I've applied to jobs,
they're never looking
(05:38):
at my university name.
Really.
If you go to an Ivy League school,
it might make a difference.
But if you're going to a state school
versus another state school, they're not
going to care.
Yeah.
And most, uh, it's about
like your extracurriculars.
What have you
done outside?
Maybe your grades, but not really the
school name itself, unless it's a really
big name, like you mentioned,
like Harvard or big schools.
Yeah, exactly.
(06:00):
And in school, is that where you like
develop your passion for wealth or how did
that come about?
It, it didn't
happen in school.
So I thought I'm going to go to school,
you know, I was on the counselor track at
that point.
So I thought I'm going to get my
bachelor's degree in psychology.
I'm going to go do
counseling work.
So, um, instead of going right into my
master's, which you have to get to become
a clinical counselor, I thought I'm
(06:21):
just going to go into social work.
So I started
doing social work.
I was making that $26,000 salary and I
realized I'm really going to have a hard
time paying for a house, saving up, uh,
paying for kids, saving
for anything I wanted.
So I feel like that's when I kind of
started that journey of thinking about
what's next.
I made a pivot into
working out of college.
(06:41):
I went back to school and got my
master's, went, continued to go to school,
got my doctorate and just
a lot of things shifted.
I continued to
change jobs.
I climbed the ladder, I learned how to
advocate for myself and along the way,
I read a lot of
financial books.
Honestly, a lot of my knowledge just came
from reading and talking to other people
and it was picking up a little trick here
(07:02):
and there, like, Oh, instead of a savings
account, put your money in a high yield
savings account, or instead of letting
your money sit in savings, invest it in
the stock market, which will grow by about
10% every year.
So each little thing started to add up
to now having this really robust overall
understanding of
how finances work.
And did you feel like
overwhelmed when first starting?
(07:22):
Like, or did you take it
at a small step at a time?
It felt
overwhelming.
I will say, and I don't know if other
people feel this way, but when you don't
make a lot of money, when you're making
$26,000, it just feels like there's no way
out because you can't
do anything else.
You can't save, you can't invest if
you don't have any money coming in.
And if you already went to school and got
(07:42):
a degree, you already did what you were
supposed to do.
So what is the
next option?
And I would say that's where I actually
learned a lot about advocating or,
you know, I share this story often about
how I went from at one
point I was making $32,000.
I applied for a job that
was going to pay $60,000.
So it's those moments where you jump
in your career and make
(08:04):
significant pay increases.
And you can do that over and over and
over again to really increase your income.
So there's a lot of ways to increase
income, but I think that's the hardest is
when you first start just thinking,
where the heck do I even start?
Yeah.
What would you give some tips for some
beginners, like just hearing the podcast
and wanting to start but aren't really
feeling confident or feeling sure of what
(08:24):
they should be
looking for or doing?
I think the number one place to start is
actually with your own personal vision.
And I feel like this is missed a
lot when we think about finances.
We automatically think side hustle,
savings account, investing,
or getting a new job.
But you should back up a step, grab
a piece of paper and write down where
(08:45):
do you want to be in the
next five to 10 years?
What is
your vision?
What is the income
you want to make?
Do you want to
make $100,000?
Do you want to
make $50,000?
Do you want to
raise two kids?
Do you want to live in a
house that is $600,000?
You know, write down some of those numbers
and that can start to
inform from there what you
want to do.
So if you want to live in this house
and live in this city and do this thing,
(09:07):
okay, now how much will
that lifestyle cost?
Let's create a
budget for that.
Okay, to live that lifestyle,
I would need to make $80,000.
I'm currently
at 50.
I need to start getting this certificate
or networking with these people to then
move up the ladder.
So, you know, when you start with
that vision, it just gives you more,
I think, motivation and clarity instead of
just saying, ah, I'm going to budget and
(09:28):
I'm going to save and I'm trying to
apply for jobs, but it feels like
discombobulated and it's not, you
don't know really where you're going.
Yeah.
And how would you, how would you
advise someone to keep motivated?
Because failure happens or you miss a
couple of days and then it just builds out
the habit already.
You like miss it,
like, oh, whatever.
I'll try
another time.
Yeah, I think
(09:48):
two things.
Number one is really having, again, that
vision and a clear why, because that
will keep you
motivated.
You know, when you really want to lose
weight and you're at the point that you
think, okay, I'm going to get up and run
every day because I'm sick
of being in this body.
You have this
deep value of why.
So the same goes with your finances
(10:08):
and then put that everywhere.
Put it on the background of your phone,
put something on the background of your
computer, you know, put sticky notes
around, put up things to remind you.
So that would
be number one.
And then number two, build
your accountability system.
So tell your friends, tell your family,
tell your partner, and
not everyone is going to
support you.
So find the people who will support you,
have them be your accountability partner,
(10:29):
talk to them often about your goals,
have them asking you questions and
celebrating with you because
that's going to keep you going too.
It can be really hard as I'm sure you can
imagine when you're trying to do it alone.
It's just a lot
more difficult.
Yeah, it is.
And how would you define like a
money mindset in terms of that, like,
to get everything together to make sure
you have that, not only like willpower,
(10:51):
but that mindset of like, this
is what I'm going to aim for.
Hmm.
Hmm.
I think start, start without
a lot of judgment on yourself.
Because I think we, we think we have
to have this perfect thing done.
If you just start letting yourself dream a
little bit and think this is what I want.
I think you'll naturally develop that
(11:12):
mindset because you might not have any
ideas right now or you might have
some, but they're not really clear.
So the more you let yourself dream and you
start writing them down, I think the more
clarity and naturally you'll build a
different money mindset that will keep you
motivated and thinking
about where you want to go.
Yeah, that's
definitely right.
And I also think about the idea of like
asking for help, not only from like
(11:33):
friends and family, but also looking for
programs that offer government assistance.
If you are making a low income, how
do you think you would help someone to
like get that stigma or that shame feeling
from getting help from these programs to
give yourself a better start to
like pursue your financial future?
(11:54):
I think we all have to remember
that we all start somewhere.
So we all start with, you know,
maybe your parents had money.
Maybe they didn't.
Maybe you went
and got a degree.
Maybe you didn't.
So start where you're at and
there's no shame in that.
And then Google
is your friend.
Go online, Google, Google
financial resources.
If you need support and you have a lower
(12:14):
income, there are tons of
social resources available.
You know, there's food stamps,
income supplement rental assistance.
If you're at the midpoint and you want
to focus on, you know, potentially career
growth, connect with
a career expert.
If you're at the higher end and you have
a lot of income coming in, maybe it's time
to meet with a wealth advisor
or an investment manager.
(12:34):
So it depends
wherever you're at.
You can find the support that you need
to just take you that little next step
further in your
financial journey.
Yeah.
And how do you think?
It's different for a financial journey
for, let's say, a woman compared to a man,
because I know I've seen I've seen like
different online resources geared to
(12:54):
different people
just as you do.
I want to know what's
your perspective on that.
I think there's a
lot of differences.
And I'm, you know,
very thoughtful.
I've worked with men and women, and
there are a lot of men who also have
not had a background
in financial education.
They don't know, you know, what to do with
their money just because they're an adult
does not mean you know how
to do stuff with your money.
(13:15):
But, you know, there are just so many
women who don't know how to do the most
with their money.
And then also, I feel like for women,
there's this stigma that wanting money is
shameful or something
to be embarrassed about.
You know, women have not always
been focused on their career.
They've been
homemakers.
So there's just a lot of pieces in the
history of women's rights and what women
(13:37):
have had access to that puts women in a
place where there's a higher majority that
just don't have access
to this information.
So that's why my focus is women
and financial education, really the
foundational tips on how to set up
a savings account, how to invest,
you know, how to think about
retirement, how to get the job you want.
That kind of stuff is just
so life changing for women.
(13:57):
So no matter who you are, if you're
a man or a woman, it's important.
But if you're a woman, especially, it
can just be so empowering
to get that education.
Yeah, it does.
And I've seen like where it helps them
make not only better life choices,
but be more aware of their situation,
because I've seen like some people don't
leave their partners because
(14:18):
of like the economics of it.
Like they don't make enough
money, so they can't really leave.
So they have to stay in
those type of situations.
And money does provide like a freedom
to have these options open to make sure
you're OK and
doing your best.
Absolutely.
Yeah, my first job when I started in
social work was actually working with
(14:39):
women who were experiencing domestic
violence, and that's
exactly what would happen.
It was really hard, especially women who
were raising children and had been in a
home where the man or the
partner was making all the money.
And it's really, really
hard to be able to leave.
So it's not only knowing how to get work
and have an income, but then the basics of
how to access your own savings account
(14:59):
and setting up a credit card or getting an
auto loan, getting
home insurance.
It's all the things that you would need
to be independent, which is not to say you
shouldn't share those
things with your partner.
But if you are in a partnership and you
feel like I just don't even know what I
would do if my partner left, it might be
time to think about learning a little bit
more about some of the financial basics,
just so you feel confident and know what
(15:20):
you would need to do, whether they left or
if they got hurt or anything else came up.
Yeah.
And what would you say, like some of
the best financial tips that you have?
Because I know you also
have written a book on that.
Can you share
more about that?
Oh, I could go.
I could talk about
that for hours.
So my book is 101
Ways to Build Wealth.
I actually give away e-copies
(15:42):
for free on my website.
So if you're listening,
it's money-essentials.com.
I give it away for free again because my
vision is just that any woman who wants it
would get access to
financial education.
So it's 101
different tips.
Some of them are
really simple tips.
Some of them are
more advanced.
But, you know, things like if you're going
to put money in your retirement account,
(16:03):
knowing the difference
between a 401k and a Roth.
So a 401k is putting in money now
and getting a tax benefit now.
A Roth is putting money in now where
you're paying taxes on the income,
but then not paying taxes on
it when you pull it out later.
You know, that can be so impactful for
someone that wants to
think about their taxes.
And do you want
to save money now?
(16:23):
Do you want to
save money later?
What are the
differences?
So that is just one of, you know, a
hundred different tips that I share.
And each one of those can dramatically
change the outcome of your finances.
Yeah.
And I'll have I'll have links below of
all your like books and
resources to your website.
And then going off of
that tip about taxes.
I think that's one important thing people
(16:45):
always overlook, like understanding or
learning some tax information, because
it's not just about
how much you earn.
It's about how much you keep and how
you plan to keep it all together.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think, you know, no one is staying
up late at night reading tax code.
I'm sure no one wants
to be doing that.
(17:06):
It can be dry.
It can be boring.
So if that's the case, either if you're
interested, do some research, start to get
educated on just the
basics of how taxes work.
If you don't want to become an expert,
find someone who can be your tax expert.
So if you just want to do your taxes
online, you have a simple tax return,
do your TurboTax.
That's
totally fine.
But if it's getting complicated,
(17:26):
you are trying to run a business,
you have kids,
you have a home.
Definitely meet with someone who can
actually help you plan your taxes,
because you may
pay that person.
For example, let's say it's somewhere
between five hundred
to a thousand dollars.
You might pay that much for
your tax person to help you.
But you might save five thousand, ten
thousand dollars in owed taxes or as a
(17:48):
refund because you
paid that money.
So be really careful to not keep yourself
from getting a benefit just because
something costs
for the help.
A lot of times the help actually gives
you a financial reward that's even greater
than the cost.
Yeah, because I worked as an accountant
for a couple of years and I prepare my own
taxes, but I have my own
CPA to file them for me.
Because even though I worked as an
(18:09):
accountant and did taxes,
I'm not that smart.
I'm not the
smartest person.
I need a second opinion to make
sure that everything is right.
And it actually does help a lot
because I'm like, oh, I did this.
But they're like, oh, you
could do a better way this way.
I'm like, oh, OK, like I didn't even
though I studied it, it
didn't cross my mind.
So it's always good to go get help,
even if it's just one time like and you
(18:31):
won't do it for
like next year.
Just having them explain everything to
you is like a world of help when trying to
understand like your taxes
and how it all works.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And like you said, even going once,
like if you a lot of CPAs, certified
public accountants, tax strategists,
certified financial planners, all of these
(18:53):
folks, a lot of times will meet with you
to do a free consultation
to see if you're a fit for
their services.
So if you are worried about the financial
side of what it costs, meet with someone,
ask them questions, get the answers to
find out if they're actually going to be
able to help you.
And oftentimes you
can do that for free.
And then if it does cost money, like
you mentioned, go do it at least
once, understand the process, and then
(19:14):
you can do it on your own
really in just a smart way
moving forward.
Yeah, because even if you try to search
things online, sometimes the information
can be very like spread out or not as
reliable as actually going to someone
that's licensed.
Because there are some tips on YouTube
and I've seen some really good tips.
I'm like, oh yeah, like that's
(19:35):
very specific, very niche.
But other tips, I'm
like, that's wrong.
Like that could be misinforming to people
and get people into a lot of trouble when
it comes to taxes or doing business and
income where they thought they were safe
if they did
this or that.
And I think that overwhelms a lot of
people too, when starting businesses and
other ventures trying to set up that they
(19:56):
don't understand some of the rules and
regulations.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's why I find that when you find
someone, when you connect with someone who
could be your financial planner or your
tax strategist, they're the people that
pull all the pieces
together for you.
So they're going to look at your
retirement, your income, your savings,
(20:17):
your debt, and they're going to help
tell you, okay, based on all of this,
this is the best
route to go.
Or, you know, for this,
we should do this.
But if we really want to focus on this
this year, let's go in this direction.
So they're pulling those pieces together
rather than, like you said, you might
just, you know, watch a YouTube video and
it says, hey, you can save
$10,000 in your taxes.
Well, maybe you can,
maybe you can't.
(20:38):
Like, do you
have kids?
Do you live in the
state of Washington?
So it's always very
context specific.
And you offer a
one-on-one coaching.
How does that look like when approaching a
client and the services
you would provide to them?
Yeah.
So I love doing
one-on-one coaching.
I have two
different offerings.
So either I meet with folks and we
(20:59):
do one 90 minute financial session.
So what that looks like is once they sign
up with me, I send them a spreadsheet and
they fill it out
on their own.
And it covers every single
piece of their finances.
So their income, any side hustles,
their credit cards, their debt,
their retirement, their home,
everything that they have.
And then we meet for 90 minutes and we
look at each piece of that and we talk
(21:21):
through their goals and then create action
steps on what they can do next to move
towards their goals based on
their entire holistic picture.
If people want to continue working with
me, so if we identify a lot of pieces and
they're like, oh, I want to create
a debt strategy to pay off my debt.
Oh, I also, I really want to, you know,
spruce up my resume because I do want to
focus on bringing
in more income.
Then we can have multiple sessions after
(21:43):
that to hone in on specific pieces.
But that 90 minute session is really where
we just set the groundwork to look at
everything and people walk away with an
entire spreadsheet of their financial
picture, which
is really cool.
Yeah, because I feel like a lot of people
like forget what bank accounts they have,
the type of subscriptions
they might have.
Like they need to first get it pieced all
(22:04):
together and then having a fresh pair of
eyes, the more trained eyes to see, oh,
you might be able to do this with it.
And like really get a good sense of you're
not in as deep as trouble as you might
feel like and there's
hope for everything.
And I think that's another piece that a
lot of people forget about is the hope
that their situation
(22:25):
isn't forever.
And do you like talk
to clients about that?
And not just like the financial
piece, but the hope piece?
That is so crucial.
And almost every time I meet with a
client, it is not just the numbers.
It's emotional.
It's your
personal life.
Your numbers are reflecting your ability
of either what you did in the past.
If you're in debt, your ability to earn in
(22:47):
the future based on if you got a degree or
you chose this or
that career path.
It's very personal.
So we're constantly talking about
feelings about money and then decisions.
So how do we have our feelings
about money and process that?
But also what decisions should we make to
move forward to get to
where we want to be?
Whether that is an easy next
step or a hard next step.
(23:08):
We just kind of lay
all of that out there.
Yeah, I think people need these easy step
guides because it's hard to get into a
groove when the information
they provide or the...
Like, let's say the steps are
very complex, very in-depth.
(23:28):
They feel
overwhelming.
And I think it's like a lot of people
aren't financially literate
as they wish to be.
So I think starting off
very low level is good.
And I think like for a lot of communities
here in the United States, financial
literacy hasn't been a priority in
schools or for most like places.
What do you think would help like our
(23:50):
communities be more financially literate
to, even if they don't go to college,
be more financially successful?
I think having a financial education
in schools would be incredible.
So if we did have that be a part of the
curriculum, especially in high school,
I feel like at that
point, if we have...
And I'm sure some schools do focus on it,
but having some sort of basic financial
(24:12):
topics, saving, income, budgeting,
retirement, those would be awesome.
And then I think just I wish more people
knew that they could
take those tiny steps.
So, for example, I was just talking
yesterday to a reporter about how if you
are in credit card debt and you can't make
(24:33):
your payment, you can call the credit card
company and they can either,
number one, lower your interest.
Number two, they can reduce your
payments and put you on an extended plan,
so smaller
monthly payments.
Number three, they can give you a total
pause on payments altogether and not have
you earn any interest
due to hardship.
Most people don't even know that that's
possible or they get into medical debt and
(24:53):
they don't know that they can call and
advocate for themselves and try to figure
out some options.
So those quick little steps, I think the
more we can share that, I think there's a
lot of good
media coming out.
There's a lot of financial
educators and influencers out there.
So I think that's just a really great
movement, but also embedding it into
financial education into high
(25:13):
schools, I think would be huge.
Yeah, because I'm starting to see like the
younger people are becoming more aware of
how hard it is to earn money, even though
they're seeing influencers earn these like
hundreds of thousands or millions
of dollars through online media.
They need to
recognize that.
Yeah.
That's very, that's very rare to see
(25:33):
these people are like one in a billion to
actually earn this
amount of money.
They should be able to like get more
realistic approaches that if they do want
to be an influencer to be, oh, I've
probably earned 60,000 and to not be
having these like, I would say like kind
of like delusional ideas that they're
(25:53):
going to be millionaires
in a few years.
Yeah, I know.
I think I, I am very
thoughtful about that.
I do on my
social media.
Anyone who checks me out will see that I
started on that $26,000 salary and then
have a million dollar net
worth and reach that by 35.
And now I'm 36.
So I do share that online to share,
(26:14):
you know, real stories
of how that happened.
But also that did
not happen easily.
And that did not
happen by accident.
That is through lots of strategic
planning, lots of hard work.
And you do not just become a millionaire
or make $100,000 every
year on average easily.
The average American income, I think
(26:35):
this year in 2025 is $55,000 or $65,000.
I'm not sure
if you know.
Yeah, that's the
right amount rate.
That's average, you know,
that's what people need to hear.
That is normal.
And also, everything
is very expensive.
Our groceries
are expensive.
Our housing
is expensive.
So making a normal salary and paying
normal mortgage payment, normal grocery,
normal car payment is
(26:55):
almost a wash these days.
So the more we can help people figure
out how to bump their salary up is really
important and how to
keep expenses low.
But also the average, the average is a
very thin line of financial
benefit at this time.
It's kind of a
hard place to be.
Yeah, it is.
And I think also opening them to the idea
(27:15):
of like different streams of income that
aren't as glorified as they see
on social media, like real estate.
Like I have a rental property
that is hard to manage.
It's like there's a lot of repairs,
but I chose it because it
had a lot of potential.
And people don't see that
every day there's work.
Every day there's
a problem.
They just see like
(27:36):
quick reference.
Oh, I did this.
And it's not
that simple.
It's always
managing it.
Always have it on your mind of like how to
get more income or something went wrong.
You got to have some outside
knowledge aside from finance.
Yeah.
Well, and again, I think that's why
it's so important to find mentors.
(27:56):
Find people that you can be your financial
planner, your tax expert, your career
coach, your mentor.
Spending a little bit of money to get
that support is going to really help you
because those people already did what you
want to do and they can help walk the path
before you.
I would not be where I am today if I
didn't have so many amazing teachers,
(28:17):
mentors, planners
in my life.
And it, I mean,
that's where it's at.
You can read a lot, but when you hear a
real life story from someone and they,
you know, they talk to you every week
and they say, hey, you're doing this,
but actually you need
to focus in here.
Or have you thought about reframing the
way you're presenting yourself or changing
up this product or changing up your resume
that those little bits of feedback make a
(28:37):
world of a
difference.
And different mentors
specialize in different things.
Your same mentor for, let's say,
investing in a stock market isn't the same
one for real estate, even
though they're investment.
Exactly.
They all specialize in different
things and they would give you as much
information, one thing, but
might be clueless in another.
And it's always good to know where to
reach out and for a specific reason.
(28:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you have any other
words for our audience?
I really liked what you
said about just having hope.
I think when it comes to your finances,
know that there are so many amazing
strategies out there.
Your past is not the
predictor of your future.
I can confidently tell you, as someone
(29:21):
who came out making $26,000, my path was
small-town girl, first-gen student,
this is going to be my path.
And it's not
where I ended up.
So you can totally
change your trajectory.
Have hope that
that's possible.
Connect with planners, mentors,
people who can help you get there.
And be really vulnerable and
share where you want to go.
Have that vision and get the
(29:42):
help you need to get there.
And you will be amazed at
what you can accomplish.
Well said.
Thank you for being
on the podcast.
Really informative.
All your links, books, everything
will be linked in the show notes.
If you want to reach out to Dr. Annie,
we'll make sure that you're in contact.
(30:03):
Awesome.
Thank you so much
for having me.
I really
appreciated it.
Thank you for
being on the show.
Thank you for
being on the show.
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