My High School Debate Partner | Part 2 | The Wealth Effect

Welcome to the second part of the second special guest interview. Sorry about the long delay for the second part.

In this episode, we discuss ambition, life as a social worker, family burdens, community, and Mental health.

If you want to support our guests' non-profit The Uplift Project, their gofund me page: The Uplift Project

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome back to the second part of
the second special guest interview.
Sorry about
the long delay.
In this episode, we discuss ambition,
life as a social worker, family burden,
community, and
mental health.
And if you want to support our guest's
non-profit, The Uplift Project,

(00:27):
the GoFundMe page is linked
in the description below.
Enjoy the show.
All right.
Hi.
Ready for a
second part?
Intermission.
Oh, that was the
intermission.
Okay, yeah.
All right.
In the last part, we talked
about, slightly, about family.

(00:49):
I think more now, I want to ask about
the cultural impact of how, like, culture
handles money.
Because different cultures see money
differently or within the family.
If it's not talked at all
or it is talked a lot.
In the family.
Good.
Good question.
Culturally.
Family.

(01:10):
I guess I could talk
specifically about my family.
I think what I
had said earlier.
This is what I said I
expand on more, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
For my family, I think money and,
like, I guess the spending of money was
more, when you spend money, you spend it
on necessities and things that you need.

(01:32):
And when you spend it on things that
you want, I get looked at as a lunatic.
Because I think a lot of it was
from the survival mindset, right?
Like, you can't go out
to eat all the time.
Like, what
do you mean?
Like, you can
make it at home.
And I think, like, for example,
like, I grew up with my paternal

(01:53):
grandparents
and my parents.
So, a lot of people
in the house.
Okay.
And I think a lot of it, growing up, was
like, if there was, like, a dish that
we tried or that we wanted to try outside
or whatever at a restaurant, my grandpa
would be like,
all right, cool.
And then he would go to the store and get
the ingredients and be like, we're going
to make it.

(02:13):
And it would be like,
okay, like, on our end.
But then my mom would be like,
ah, time for me to cook, you know?
Whatever that woman says, she
does like to cook, brother.
Don't believe
anything she says.
But she's a great cook
and she loves to cook.
So, a lot of it was
like, oh, do we need it?
Then we kind of spend
that money on it.

(02:34):
If you don't need it, then why
are you spending, you know?
Um, and I grew up with my
parents being low income.
And there was four
of us, you know?
Um, me and my siblings have a pretty
small age gap until my younger sister.
We have a
10-year age gap.
She is a child.
She reminds me how
old I am every day.

(02:55):
Anyway.
But, um, like, I'm 25, my
sister's 23, and my brother's 22.
So, school time
came around.
That was a big, big
financial investment.
Especially with
the uniforms?
With the uniforms,
the school supplies.
Like, you know, there was a lot of
things that you had to spend money on.
Honestly, the school uniform was probably

(03:17):
the thing that saved the
most money in my family.
Because no
new clothes.
You don't need to
buy new clothes.
And also, like, you know, fashion
trends, like, things change all the time.
And when you're poor, you can't
really keep up with that shit.
You know what
I'm saying?
So, uniforms honestly
saved probably my life.
And honestly, as

(03:37):
a kid, I hated it.
Because I was like, oh, I
want to wear this and that.
But as I got older, I also
realized the benefits of uniforms.
Because also, then, it kind of puts
everybody at the same playing field.
Like, you don't really know what
someone's struggling with also.
I mean, you can.
But, like, you
know what I mean?
It just
balances it out.
Yeah, that's

(03:57):
how I felt.
Especially because I had,
like, one blazer a year.
And I'm like, what
are you going to say?
As long as it looks
clean, it's fine.
Yeah.
I don't think I had
multiple blazers.
Some people did.
I remember that they
would have, like, blazers.
I've had, like,
multiple, like...
Dressing shirts?
Dressing
shirts, I think.
But... I had
one tie, too.
I also had one tie.

(04:18):
I was not.
..
No, I wasn't.
..
I didn't have multiple
ties in a blazer.
I'm sorry.
I was not in
that bracket.
But, yeah.
So, I think a lot of it was,
like, you get what you get.
This is what
you need.
I mean, my parents
definitely tried.
Like, you know, it's not like I didn't
get what I wanted at times, either.

(04:39):
But it was
definitely, like...
It wasn't, like,
I'm at the store.
I want this.
Like, were you aware
that you couldn't get it?
Yeah.
You couldn't just,
like, ask for it?
No, I was aware.
I was aware.
Like, are you asking if
I was aware I was poor?
Yes, I was very aware
that I was poor.
I was.
I think, especially, like, growing up

(05:00):
in a house where you have siblings.
And then I also had cousins
and my aunts and uncles.
And, like, I think our house
was also a place where, like...
For example, like, my mom's siblings,
when they first came here, right?
They stayed at
our house, right?
So, I think seeing
how, okay, money's...

(05:20):
We have groceries.
We're not just
feeding us.
Like, you know, we're
all working together.
And it's not like they
didn't provide stuff.
Like, you know, we all
worked really hard.
And I think seeing that
made me understand money.
Or, like, the value
of money, if you will.
But also, I
hated money.
Like, I remember being a kid and being
like, God, if I had money, so many of our

(05:41):
problems would be
fucking solved, you know?
So, I kind of had that, like, I
understand, like, the
value of it in this world.
But, man, do I
fucking hate money.
You know
what I mean?
I don't know if
that makes sense.
I also hate money because it
keeps a lot of things from...
Because you're always thinking about money
at a certain point where it really takes
the fun out of
a lot of things.
Because you're like, I
can't really have this.
I can't really enjoy

(06:01):
this because of money.
And it's like, why is
it always on my mind?
Yeah.
Even though there's other
things out there that...
And I think I also saw the amount of
stress it put on my family where I was
like, Motherfucking
money, you know?
And I think that was also another, I
guess, motivation, part of my ambition.

(06:23):
I was like, I don't
want to be fucking poor.
And I think even now, I have, like,
this fear that I'm going to end up poor.
I think...
And I've learned that this is, like,
a phenomenon that happens to a lot
of people who
grow up poor.
You have that so
inside of you.
I was like, someone's going to
come and take all my goddamn money.
Or I'm just going to blow it because
I've never had it in the
first place, you know?

(06:44):
And so, like, it's
just been really hard.
And then, for me, I know a lot of
people, like, get jobs early on, right?
I didn't get.
..
So, I was like,
how do I say it?
I was like, in a traditional
sense, I didn't get a job.
Like, how I explained earlier, my
grandpa had worked at a factory.
Like, for a very

(07:05):
long time, right?
He worked at, like,
a spring factory.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So, there was things that
they would let you bring home.
Like, springs.
And so, my mom would work from home,
like, sorting out these springs at home.
And then, we
would help her.
We were children.
It's fine.
Child labor.
Right.

(07:25):
No, I'm just
kidding.
But it was, like, for example, like,
taping up the boxes to, like...
And then, she was, you know,
separate the springs or whatever.
So, like, I worked,
but not, like...
I didn't, like, get a job with,
like, a, you know, a chick.
But, like, I was working
at home to help my family.
And, like,
that was...
My mom was a stay-at-home
mom, and that's what she did.

(07:48):
But, yeah, money was seen as something
of value, but also ever-fleeting,
if that
makes sense.
Like, you.
..
I don't know if
that makes sense.
So, it's, like.
..
And then, like, when
I got older, and I...
For example, like,
in college, I went...
I wanted to go out and
study abroad trips, right?
I was, like, I'm
going to study abroad.
I was, like, why
would you do that?

(08:08):
That's so
much money!
And then, I was, like, oh, I'll
get a scholarship or this and that.
And I did, and
I got those.
Okay, fine.
That was
for school.
So, it was,
like, justified.
And then, after, when I was,
like, okay, I'm going on vacation.
What?
Like, you know,
that was that.
But, it's, like, those
are, like, big things.
But, I think, even, like, minor things of,
like, going, hey, I'm
going to go out to eat.

(08:29):
Like, I told you that my grandpa would
bring home ingredients so that we didn't
go out and spend
extra money.
So, like, me being, like,
oh, I'm going out for coffee.
Or me going out to
just watch a movie.
Like, we didn't go to
the movie theaters.
We couldn't go to the movie theaters
because it was so expensive.
So, my dad would, he
would bootleg the movies.
Honestly, now it's

(08:50):
easier with the internet.
I know.
But, like, you know, he would
get it on the CDs, you know?
Yeah, yeah, I
remember that.
So, it was, like, damn, like, I
couldn't go to the movie theaters.
But, he would be, like, okay,
what movie do you want to watch?
And figure out a way
to get me the movie.
You know
what I mean?
So, it was, like, you know, it was shown
that even though you don't have money,
like, I don't know,
work around it.
But, I definitely saw the stress of

(09:13):
not having it, if that makes sense.
Yeah, and especially seeing it on
their face where they
want to give us, like, the
most they can.
But, they're also cautious of what
they can really, realistically give us.
Right, right.
But, I do have a funny
comment on the job.
On my first real job, I don't count,
like, helping my mom, like, washing
windows or picking

(09:33):
up trash at a job.
My first real job, when I was, like,
13, maybe, it was for a pizzeria,
a small pizzeria.
You know how they leave, like,
those pamphlets at doors?
Yeah.
I was literally just, like, a
little kid running out to the doors.
Oh, that's cool.
And I got so many
paper cuts, I quit.
I quit after
the first day.
I couldn't do it.

(09:53):
I was, like, I got paid, like, $20
for, like, an hour or
something in the book.
$20 an hour at 13?
But, it was the
blistering summer heat.
Oh.
Like, it
was so bad.
I was, like, well, I'm
not doing anything.
You're, like, this
is not worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah, that
makes sense.
But, going off of, like, our parents,
like, they see, like, they want to live
the American

(10:14):
dream through us.
Do you get
that a lot?
Like, do
they, like...
Like, my parents
live through me?
Yeah, like, want to instill those
values of, like, house, owning a car,
like, a nice car.
What else is the
American dream?
I already don't know
what else is included.
What comes
with America?
I don't know.
I think, um, I think it's, like,

(10:35):
it gets a little hard to say, like,
the American dream.
Which, I don't even think my parents
understand that that's what they're,
like, this is
what you're doing.
Like, when you're saying, like,
go to school, get a job, blah,
blah, blah.
But, I think my mom and my dad,
like, they have, like, yeah, we're in
America, but also don't
forget where you came from.
Like, they're, like, we're, we're,

(10:56):
we're Muslim, we're Pakistani,
and, like, I don't, my girl, I, you
don't, don't you think I know that?
I know, I know,
don't worry.
Um, but the pressure of like the American
dream, I think of like when you're saying
the parents lived through
me, God damn, is that true?
Like, it's like, my
success is their success.

(11:18):
And like, to a
certain degree, sure.
But also, I feel like being kids of like
immigrant parents, like we work so hard to
be like, look, we did it, you
know, like to make them proud.
But also, I think, in this little journey
of life of mine, I think I have realized
like, yeah, like to a certain

(11:38):
degree, I do want to do that.
But also, I also
want to live my life.
Like, I think a lot of it, like,
going to college, doing this and that,
like, I did it for my parents,
a lot of it, you know?
And I think now, I'm like, all right,
what the fuck does Isma want to do,
you know?
And a lot of that is just simple life
stuff, like going out to eat or traveling.

(12:00):
That's not simple.
That's very,
very luxurious.
And I'm very
grateful for it.
Anyway.
But like, you know, but in the sense
of like, them living through me, yeah,
like, I went to school,
you know, got a job.
Next thing, culturally, family,
they want me to get fucking married.
I don't know what I'm
going to eat tomorrow.
You want me to get

(12:21):
married and have kids?
That's crazy.
Um, and it's like, I mean, yeah, one
day, hopefully, you know, but I think,
I think culturally, I don't know if it's
like specific to my culture, but also,
I guess, just in women, like people think
we have like this ticking time bomb,
right?
Like, man, I'm 25.
I'm about to

(12:41):
damn near expire.
And this
year's bro.
I'm gone already.
Like I'm one foot
in the ground.
But like, even like in society in general,
I think that is a pressure that women
have, like, people aren't, you're not
going to be desirable once you're 30.
And I think
that's crazy.
Like, come on now.
Let's all just
calm the fuck down.
We see the where

(13:01):
the world is going.
But, um, so I think in that sense,
yeah, like the, those are those like
pressures, like, okay, like you
achieve this, this and that.
What's next?
And it's just like trying to, I don't
know, accomplish the next thing.
And it kind of gets a
little disappointing.
Like, damn, like I did all
this, I got a master's degree.

(13:22):
And now you're
like, all right.
Where's the husband
and the children?
Like, damn, that's
all I came out for.
Like, I did not see all the other
stuff that I was working hard towards.
So I think in that sense, um, a lot of
like their pressures kind of come out in
the sense like, they're still wanting
me to do something like for them.

(13:43):
Does that
make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, and they're, and it's like, if
I'm not doing it, and they're living
through me, they're like, damn,
I'm like, dude, don't take it so
personally.
Like, you know, I think sometimes it's
hard, I guess, to like differentiate,
like, your child is
their own person.
You know?
And we also, like, us ourselves, find

(14:04):
it hard to distinguish because we
carry like, that burden of, let's say
we're traveling for vacation or something.
They can't do that.
They never
did that.
And they might have not
even gone to a vacation yet.
And they're like, I know, we feel
bad because like, wow, like, I know,
I've been at
some place.
I'm like, damn, my
mama loves this.
Like, I get it.

(14:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That guilt
is there.
I think about that, like, with
my parents or even my siblings.
Like, if I'm somewhere, I'm like,
damn, like, you know, we would all love
this ice cream.
But like,
yeah, I get it.
Yeah.
Because I remember going to
like, to my first vacation.
It's like, wow, my mom, but like,
really like this place,
but she can't come.
And it's like, aside from fun, money

(14:47):
or like other logistical problems,
but I'm like, money is usually the biggest
barrier for everything, especially like,
you have a
bigger family.
Imagine for a family,
like five or more.
Yeah.
That's a heavy, like,
build to like, yeah.
And I also feel like, it's also, I
guess, you know,
dependent on your family.

(15:08):
But like, I feel like if you like, let's
say your immediate family is small,
like, you don't have a lot of
siblings, but you can, right?
And that
makes it big.
But like, I feel like for me, at least,
like, it's not only your siblings and your
parents, it's your aunts and
your uncles and your cousins.
And it's like, you
know, and I love them.
But it's just like, it's like, it
gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
And it's just, sometimes I think also

(15:30):
realizing like, hey, you don't gotta
invite the
third cousins.
Like, it's good.
I don't even think
they remember my name.
Like, you know, so it's like also figuring
out that balance of like, what your family
looks like, especially now that you're
getting, we're getting older, you know?
Yeah.
But yeah, that guilt
is definitely there.
Like wanting, like, you go up

(15:51):
and you're like, okay, I did it.
But like, I want all of us to like,
enjoy what I'm being able to enjoy.
Yeah.
It's something that
I've definitely felt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how does it feel like being
an older sister that you have?
It's exhausting.
It's like, do you talk to
them about a lot of stuff?
Like, either money related, like
how the struggles are going?

(16:13):
Like, like my financial struggles
or like, just like growing up.
Well, I don't tell my
15 year old sister.
Really?
Not like that, like, not like I'm trauma
dumping on her, but like, I think,
um, in the sense of, so funny story,
like that girl gets everything she wants.
She is my
little sister.

(16:34):
Like, I'm going to, it's also in
the sense like, oh, I didn't get it.
Oh, so you want to.
Like, you know, and I'm like, I like,
I'm able to, so like, why not type stuff?
So I'm like, all
right, cool, whatever.
I cannot take her to
Ulta without a budget.
Like, I'm like, okay,
Madagascar's enough, please.
But like, for example, she got like
a gift card for her like birthday.
And so she went and she
got like a $50 gift card.

(16:55):
And she's like,
bro, I went to Ulta.
You know, I got five things
that that thing's gone.
I was like,
yeah, girl.
Yeah, that's the
world we live in.
I think about that.
Like, you know, like, oh, man, like,
I don't know if I
could get this or that.
But in that sense,
I don't know.
That's money in that sense

(17:16):
with my younger sister.
I mean, we have a
10 year age gap.
So I'm glad there's
some difference.
Like, we were in
the same place.
I'll be,
I'll be sad.
Me and my siblings, like my other
siblings, you know, I think all four of us
are pretty close.
And I think we talk about how we grow up,
how we grew up, and also like our current
situations, like having jobs and like

(17:38):
going to school and what that was like.
It's definitely
conversation that we have.
I forgot your
question.
Do you talk with them like about like your
life struggles or financial struggles to
help them either connect with
you or understand the situation?
Because the younger kids might not
grasp it as well as we did seeing it,

(18:01):
especially because I think after the first
few kids, they might try to hide it more.
Or now that you're older, it's not as
extreme or severe as it used to be.
Um, I'm trying to think, like,
telling them my struggles.
Well, well, for undergrad, for example,

(18:22):
I was very blessed to go on a full ride.
So I didn't really have to like worry
in that sense of like tuition and stuff.
Um, but like in struggles in school and
things like that, I don't, I think in the
beginning, I didn't
really talk about it.
Cause honestly, I didn't even know,
like I struggled in school, like I said,
but damn, I was

(18:43):
struggling in school.
So like, but it, I think it was,
um, I think it was like more like my
mental health that like was impacting my
schooling because I think, like I said
before, I was the first time
I was by myself, you know?
And I was like, damn, it's
just me and my thoughts.

(19:03):
Like, I don't have to
worry about anybody else.
And I think that comes into play being the
eldest daughter and being
that like eldest sibling.
Like, it's a lot of responsibility that
I guess I didn't realize that I even had.
It was just like, you're born, this
is the life, this is the role that
you're put into.
And you kind of just learn
to go with the punches.
And then that was the first

(19:24):
time I was ever living or me.
And I was like,
what the fuck?
And I was like, and I didn't
know how to deal with it.
Like, you know, and like
balancing that in school.
So, so that
was a struggle.
I remember my sophomore year being one
of the hardest years for me, I think.
And I, and I like, I'm trying
to think what happened.

(19:47):
I, I failed some
of my classes.
Oh, that's crazy.
I did.
I failed some
of my classes.
And the other ones.
Oh, I don't know
if I failed.
I think I got a D, but
basically I failed.
Isn't D failing?
Yes, it is.
That's what I mean.
So like, and like, it was,
I was like, what the fuck?
I was like,
what the fuck?
I was like, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no.
It was like, it woke me up because I was

(20:09):
like, it was like another wake up call.
Cause I was like, whoa, like, no,
like I gotta take this shit seriously.
Not only like school, but like,
I have to take myself seriously.
Like my mental health, like,
cause clearly it was affecting me.
Like, you know
what I mean?
And so I still ended up graduating
like on time, like in those four years,
but I decided to withdraw

(20:30):
from that whole semester.
I took all the classes, but like on my
like transcript, W's for that whole,
I didn't fail all my classes, but
like with talking to the advisors and
everything like that, like that
made the most like logistical sense.
You know
what I mean?
So a lot of the classes that I even
didn't have to repeat that I passed, I did

(20:50):
because I withdrew from the,
technically withdrew from the semester.
That is something I've never
shared with my parents.
I was just going
to say that.
Like tell them.
God, I was like, cause I don't think in
their brain, they even like, they're like,
what do you
mean you fail?
Like that, that's not
an option, you know?
So it's like, I, that was like, that's
not something I go to

(21:10):
my parents for ever.
They would have been
like, how could you fail?
Yeah.
Like, and I think, you know, you just
learn as you get older, like what you can
say, what you can't say, who you
can lean on, who you can't lean on.
And unfortunately in that sense,
that's not something I was going to be
like, mom,
I need help.
Like that's
not, you know?

(21:32):
I think I did tell my siblings
eventually, and then they were like, what?
They didn't
even know?
No, it was like more like after the fact,
once I like kind of figured my shit out.
Yeah.
I was like, so yeah, you
know, that was a minute.
And then they
were like, what?
And I was like, yeah, but I think after
that, I think I kind of said it in,
in a way, like I wanted to tell

(21:52):
them to be like, it's okay.
Like you can fail
because it will be fine.
Like, and I think because it's scary to
fail and like, you don't want to fail.
I mean, I'm, you
can ask anybody.
I'm like, I don't want to fail, but
like, I'm probably the person that's
failed the most.
I think failing is always looked down upon
on like, especially immigrant parents.

(22:13):
They always question how could you
fail in like their environment.
Like they give you everything they can,
but they sometimes don't realize that it's
not, it's not that it's not enough,
but it's not what we
might need at the time.
Or it's just so difficult because we had
some struggles early on that we can't just
overcome it like
everyone else.

(22:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I
agree with you.
And, and that was like, again,
one of the hardest things for me,
but a lot of the things that I've done in
my life, like moving forward, if you will,
it was like, a lot of it, I think
came from being an eldest child.
I just wanted my siblings to
know that they could do it.

(22:55):
Like, you know, even if I failed,
like I'm like, all right, well,
I failed.
If I can do it, you
can do it, bitch.
Like, you know,
type, type shit.
So like, you know, telling them that, I
just hope that, you know, they would be
like, okay, all right, it
happens, move forward, move on.
But also like, you know, if you're
struggling, if you need help, like,
I'm here and

(23:16):
I get it.
And I think sometimes it kind of gets
lost with that with my younger sister,
because we have
such a big age gap.
And then it's like, I'm almost like
a, like a, like a mom
figure to her, you know
what I mean?
And so it's like, like, if I'm giving
advice, or I'm telling her something,
and it's all, it's like, she goes

(23:36):
again, but it's like, trust me, like,
you know, so it's like having those
moments of like, okay, let me sit you down
and tell you a little
bit about my life.
And then, because it's like, because then,
like, even the other day, I was like,
damn, that's crazy.
Like, I was there for your
childhood, but you weren't there.
Like, you weren't
there for mine.

(23:59):
And that part and saying like, okay,
like, this is how you, you know,
explain and talk to it with her versus
like, I guess my other siblings.
Um, but yeah, so like that happened
in college, but I mean, I did it.
Yeah.
And I think that's what is very important
to tell like our communities is that
there's always a
recovery for a phase.
Like it looks rough for, it

(24:19):
could be months, maybe a years.
Yeah.
But like at the end, if you can
recover, that's what's most important.
Yes.
How else do you think like you carry
a weight with your like, um, siblings?
Can you say you're
like a mom figure too?
Cause you understand more than I would
like, not to offend your mom, but like
that you might understand more of the

(24:40):
environment here, it's
schooling and all that.
Like you get it.
That's how you
see the world.
And I, and I think that gets kind of even
lost with my parents too, because like
they've, they've
lived the life.
Right.
And they know things that I might
not know, but I think um, sometimes,
I don't know if it's true for you or not,
but like, they still see

(25:00):
you as a kid sometimes.
They always do.
And I was like, all right, cool,
cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
But I'm 25 now.
Like, and I'm still learning, but I
think it's like navigating that world.
Like, I feel like we come from cultural
backgrounds, but we also live in America.
So I feel like we have so much nuance,

(25:21):
like that we have just learned.
And I feel like, I know, like, I think
what, for example, for my parents,
for example, I think, um, a lot of times
they've said like, the
world is a scary place.
Like, you know, you have to
be careful in this and that.
And like, you know,
okay, all right, cool.

(25:41):
Like, I got it.
Like, I'll
be careful.
But it's like, mom,
I've lived life now.
Like, you know, or like,
that I've seen things too.
And it's like, coming to that
acknowledgement that, you know,
your kids aren't
kids anymore.
And I think that's something that's
hard for my parents to grasp.
Um, and the sense of with my siblings, I
guess that's where it comes in where I'm

(26:02):
like that, like third parent or like,
you know, that mom figure of like,
it gets a little tricky because it's like,
especially for like my siblings who are
closer in age, like
we're close in age.
Like that's my brother
and that's my sister.
But then also like, Hey,
let me tell you something.
Like, let me tell you
something, please.
Um, and giving
them that advice.

(26:22):
It's different with
my younger sister.
Cause obviously we
have that age gap.
So I guess that like mentoring advice
kind of like checks out a little bit more
sometimes until she's
like, Oh, leave me alone.
She acts like
a teenager.
Uh, it's gonna be crazy when you move out
because I think parents will still have
that controlling

(26:43):
aspect.
They're like,
you're my kid.
Like why are
you leaving?
Like he should be close by because I
need help with something or like, yeah,
you gotta be there
for the family.
Well, it's definitely seen as a more
like selfish American cultures that where
you're like, okay,
like I'm successful.
I could still help the family, but I
might not be close because I want to
live my own life.
And I think that's seen

(27:04):
as very like selfish.
Like, um, but I think, I think oftentimes,
and I think my experience is very similar
to me, to other like kids
of immigrant parents.
Like, I think we
sacrifice a lot.
And I think maybe our parents don't
even realize how much we sacrifice.
And they're like,
well, what do you mean?

(27:24):
And I was like, because they weigh a lot
of their sacrifices because they visually
or like emotionally feel their sacrifice
and they don't see ours because either
we're in school, so we don't
spend a lot of time with them.
Like even in high school, I didn't
see my mom as much or my brother.
Yeah.
In college, even less like, yeah,
because they didn't see all that.
They're like,
oh, you're home.
Okay.
You look fine.

(27:44):
Yeah.
You should be
doing well.
Yeah.
Or it's like, when you're not, you're
like, why aren't you doing fine?
And I'm like, well, I'm
sorry for having feelings.
Um, yeah, it's, it's very hard to
like have that like balance of like,
but again, it's that thing where
you're in survival for the whole time.
And then, you know, I guess we come along

(28:06):
and we're like, okay, yeah, we were in
survival, but now
we want to live.
And it's like, what the
fuck do you mean by that?
And it's like, that
means I'm moving out.
And they're
like, what?
No, but you're not.
No, the fuck
you're not.
Like, um, and it's
just different.
Like, you know, and, uh, even like,
I think cultural expectations,

(28:28):
like my mom be like, yeah, you
can travel when you're married.
I was like, girl, I'm
gonna travel next month.
What are you
talking about?
So like, and I think it's like, again,
it goes back to like
being safe and all this
other things.
And I was like, yeah,
but I'm also not stupid.
Like, and like, I
actually, I take that back.
I don't like saying that because things,
bad things happen to people all the time.
And it doesn't mean that you're stupid,

(28:50):
but like, you shouldn't also just hold
yourself back.
Yes.
Because
you're scared.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like, you can do the things,
um, to keep yourself safe.
And I think that's the most that you can
do, but you can't be so scared of the
world that you're so
afraid to live it.
Right.
And I think like, then like,
we're here for a reason.
Like I'm not, and I, God, I'm not here

(29:10):
only to work like, and
like only to go to school.
Like those are aspects of my life,
but they're not just who I am.
And I think, um, I think
that also falls into like
growing up and like my parents' whole
identity or like people's identity,

(29:31):
just being
parents, you know?
And I'm like, I'm going to be a mom one
day, but that's not all I'm going to be.
I'm going to be a wife one day, but
I'm not just going to be a wife.
Like those are parts of me, but they're
not going to be, you know, I don't know if
that makes sense.
Like, um, And I think even that
concept is like, what do you mean?
Yeah, like we have more... we're going
to develop more complicated, like,

(29:52):
personalities
throughout.
Well, I think because we come from
immigrant households, they like to enclose
themselves and keep safe
what they're familiar with.
And venturing now is always seen
as very taboo and dangerous.
And that's why when they start seeing
us developing, like, this new culture,
because they came here
from another place.
Because they see it, this is dangerous,

(30:13):
because I see it on the
news or something like that.
Like, yeah, don't go out there,
don't do this, don't be like this.
But those are
bad people.
We're not
like that.
We're more
cautious.
We're aware.
We understand.
It's like worst case
scenario all the time.
I was like, mom,
that gets tiring.
Yeah, like, at a certain
point, like, I get it.

(30:34):
But then it's like, again, like, it's
not going to stop me
from living my life.
Like, you know, and I'll tell you where
I am, like, who I'm with, but, like,
I'm still
going to go.
Like, you know.
But yeah, I don't know if
that answers your question.
It does.
And I think the last thing is,
like, you want to help
out a lot of people.
And you've started doing that by

(30:57):
any, like, causes that
you've done or supported.
Well, I feel like it kind of started even
in high school, like, with
us volunteering all those
goddamn hours.
Yeah, how
much was it?
Like, 250?
I feel like that
sounds right.
I did, like, 500,
though, I think.
I was, like, I was going to say four
because I felt like it was, like,

(31:17):
whatever the
regular hours were.
And then we were in NHS and
then, like, they doubled.
I don't
fucking know.
But I remember
there were a lot.
But honestly, those were one of my
fondest memories of high school, like,
getting up at the butt fuck crack of dawn
and being at the fucking train station to
go on some run,
like, to volunteer.
I think those were, like, I don't know,
really good, wholesome moments that kind

(31:38):
of shaped me.
I was like, you know, aside from,
like, volunteering and, like, being,
like, an obligation, like,
they created good memories.
And, like, it showed, like, the
meaning behind all of it, you know?
I think, I'm trying
to think what else.
And then in college, I ended up joining
a sorority that was a more service-based,

(32:00):
too.
So that was really nice to kind of
keep up with my, you know, giving back,
if you will.
It just, you know,
it's just good.
It feels good and I feel like
it's, like, the right thing to do.
And then in, I want to say, 2021-ish,
like, it was still, like, the pandemic was

(32:22):
happening, but we were still
able to go outside at that point.
So it wasn't, like,
full lockdown.
It was, like, we're going outside,
but, like, with masks and stuff.
So it was
probably 21.
And I, like, was, like, realizing,
like, a lot of places that we were going
into, like, you couldn't go in
if you didn't have a mask, right?
Like, there was, like, no
access if you didn't have one.
And then I was, like, damn, there's a lot

(32:45):
of homeless people around and they don't
have masks.
Like, at that point, I
don't think it was, like...
Now I feel like it's a little bit more,
like, accessible to get masks and stuff
and they're
in places.
But in general, like, I was just, like,
it just, it just, it was
not a good situation.
So I, with my family and, like, some
of my friends, like, I was talking to

(33:07):
them about, like, how I wanted to do some
care packages and, like, what I wanted in
them and ended up creating a list and
putting out a flyer on, like, Instagram
and Facebook to, like, have, like,
just anyone who could donate, like,
aside from putting in my own money
and, like, money from my family.
And a lot of
people donated.
Like, I was

(33:28):
really surprised.
Like, I put, like, whatever you can
donate, but then also I was, like,
a care package
costs $10.
Like, just to, like,
give them, like, an idea.
Like, if you want to donate a package,
it's about $10 during that time.
And we got a lot of packages and
we would just put them in our cars.
And, like, I had some in my
dad's car, my mom's car, my car.

(33:48):
And, like, if we would see people,
we would just, like,
give them those packages.
And I think it was a really,
like, nice thing to do.
Yeah.
And now, my brother, who is a lot more
business-minded than I am, he has taken
some economic classes
and things of such.
Yeah.
So then my brother is starting to go with
the process to make it into a nonprofit,

(34:10):
which we're really
excited about.
But, yeah, that's in
the works right now.
The Uplift Project is dedicated to making
a meaningful impact in our communities,
and they need your support
to reach new heights.
They're currently working to secure a
501c3 nonprofit status, a critical step
that will allow them to expand their

(34:32):
programs and increase their ability to
serve those
in need.
Your contribution, no matter the amount,
will directly support this important
milestone and enable them to continue
empowering individuals and families.
Please consider donating today at their
GoFundMe page, Help the Uplift Project,
linked below, to help them
create lasting change.

(34:54):
Together, we can
make a difference.
Do you think you had an influence
on him of, like, helping people out?
Because since you're older than him, he
saw you in high school go through these
volunteer hours, and
you seem to enjoy it.
And you're not so positive about it,
too, when coming home
back from these events?
Um, maybe.

(35:14):
But I think, like, you know, he also
volunteered because we all went to the
same high school, and
he had that experience.
Um, but I think, um, as a person,
like, who my brother is, I think he is
also someone who is very caring for,
like, people aside from himself.
So, um, I don't know if I
was so much of an influence.

(35:34):
I mean, if I was,
that's great.
Um, but I think it's just
his character as well.
Um, he's just someone that also wants to,
like, give back and, like, help in any way
that he can,
for sure.
Yeah, and I feel like that's
been a lot of your character.
I feel like since I've known you always,
uh, like, wanting to help out people and,
like, these causes that come up, why

(35:56):
do you think that
developed you over time?
Like, have you always
been like that?
Uh, change.
I don't know.
Especially for, like, the type of
groups that you would, like, help, like,
homeless people.
I think that's a group that a lot of
people try to avoid because it either
makes them sad or
it's very personal.
Because when you go up to these people to

(36:17):
help, like, it's, it's a hard thing to go
up to them for one thing, but also being
compassionate enough to understand them.
Because some people might think just
throwing it at them or
something is good enough.
That's not it.
Like, there's more to
it to helping people.
It's, like, making them
feel like a person.
That they're not,
like, homeless.
Like, that isn't a

(36:38):
personality type.
Identity.
That there's
more to it.
Yeah.
I mean, they're people
at the end of the day.
I don't know.
I just think, um.
..
I don't know.
I was like, I don't
know why I'm like this.
Um, um...
I don't know.
I just think it's always made sense
to me to treat people with dignity.

(37:00):
I think I've, like, you
know, I guess, I don't know.
I think I've seen people
not be treated that way.
And I think I
was like, why?
Like, and I would be like, that
doesn't make any sense to me, you know?
And I think maybe also because of like,
on the news, how Muslims were portrayed or
that fact that I was bullied because I was
Muslim, like, probably also played a part

(37:22):
because I was like, are you judging
someone based off of one thing?
And one thing, someone that's really
extreme, like, you know what I mean?
Like, one bad thing, and
then now everyone's bad.
Like, it didn't
make sense.
Like, racism,
like, homophobia.
Like, these things just
in my brain don't connect.
Like, hate does not
make sense to me.

(37:43):
Like, based off of someone's identity
and not having compassion
for someone is just...
I don't know.
Yeah.
And then focusing on, like, being
treated differently, especially, like,
being a different socioeconomic
class, being poor.
People do straight out just treat
you differently, blatantly, like...
Yeah.

(38:03):
Because I feel like people see it
as a form that's more acceptable to
discriminate
to people.
Of people when
they're poor?
Yeah.
Like, I remember when my mom would go out
to, like, a nice restaurant when she was
out of work.
Like, maybe she finished
cleaning something downtown.
She's like, oh, I want
to go to a restaurant.
Like, they would be
like, can you pay?
Like, how are you going to... You don't

(38:23):
tell anyone just that, like, straight out.
That's
fucking rude.
Yeah.
And I feel like I
haven't really seen that.
I've seen more of, like, people think,
like, I'm above them because I'm like,
I used to work as an
accountant at a big firm.
And they're like, you think, like, you're
all that or, like, you think you're
above, like, Hispanics just because
you work at this big job downtown.

(38:45):
Interesting.
And a lot of people don't
see that I've worked for it.
Like, sure, there's a definitely,
like, where you change, like, kind of,
like, your persona
when you work.
Like, there's
an etiquette.
Like, your professional
self, I guess.
Yeah.
And a lot of people think that it's fake
because they're like, you should be you,

(39:05):
like, your Hispanic self,
like, your true self.
And, like, I get that to a degree,
but I also think that it's, like,
are you going to be taken seriously
in those, like, positions?
Like, if you don't, like, code
switch a little bit, like, you know.
And I get what other people are also
saying because fuck professionalism,
but, yeah.

(39:26):
I think it's different for you, though,
because you work with students and
there is definitely, like, a professional
symbol, but you have to be more personal
to really dig into it in a different
environments, like an office.
Right.
Yeah, there's different
layers to it, yeah.
And most of us, I feel like, in the
schools that we went to, never teach

(39:47):
anything like that.
Like, they never teach you
how to really be professional.
They tell you, like, oh, send an email,
this is how you send it, but I'm like,
there's more to it.
Like, how you talk, how
you present yourself.
Like, even in the office,
there's also, like, jokes.
Like, they have to be very mild and very
controlled, but you can't
just go in without a
personality.

(40:08):
You have to really filter,
I guess, yourself out.
But don't act
fake on it.
And I feel like, for you,
it's a little bit different.
How would
you say that?
Like, do you change
your personality a lot?
Or, like, how do
you go about that?
In my, like,
professional setting?
Yeah.
I mean, to a degree.
Like, I'm not going in there

(40:29):
cussing left and right.
Like, you know
what I'm saying?
But I think so.
I think
there's, like...
I think it also depends on, like,
the people that you work with,
right?
Um, where you kind of have to have that,
like, professional, like, personality.
Like, almost like
that wall up.
Because, like, you're gauging
who you're working with, right?

(40:49):
Like, who you can say what with and
who you can make certain jokes with.
Not to be, like,
you're fake or stuff.
But it's
just, like...
Some people don't like
certain type of jokes.
And I think
that's okay.
And you go
around that way.
Again, everyone
is different.
Yeah, I don't think I,
like, change who I am.
Like, my essence,

(41:09):
if you will.
But, like, I think I, you know, walk
around it with
whatever the vibes are.
Like, you know, you gotta
check what the vibes are.
And that's what
you go with it.
In that sense.
But I wouldn't
say I would...
I wouldn't say that
I change myself.
If that
makes sense.
Yeah.
I just think, like, sometimes certain

(41:30):
aspects of professionalisms
give me the ick.
Like, for example, like, even,
like, when we were in high school,
we would have to wear
the suit and tie, right?
Or, like, you couldn't
have certain nail colors.
Or, like, guys couldn't
have facial hair.
Like, I think sometimes when it comes
to professionalism, it's kind...
It's not very, like,
culturally competent.

(41:50):
Or very, like, um.
..
Like, it doesn't.
..
It's like, what's the
white man wanting?
Deliver.
And it's like,
no, fuck you.
Like, what the
fuck do you mean?
Like, and, like,
even that's...
And, like, I think, like, I remember
being in high school, people being like,
why can't I have
black nail polish?
It's not
professionalism.
Okay, why does my teacher
have black nail polish?

(42:12):
Aren't they a
professional?
Like, and I think
that's a valid question.
And you don't have
an answer to it.
So then why impose rules
just because you want to?
You know
what I mean?
Yeah, I think
they also did...
It's not that they might have never been
in an office job, but I don't think many
of them have ever been
in an office job where...
I don't know, yeah.

(42:32):
Because, honestly, a lot of the
professionalism is, like I said,
like, who do you
really talk to?
Like, I remember in my office,
our coworkers were more relaxed,
like, you know,
just working...
It's like the environment
that you work in.
And then with clients, you're like,
oh, oh, you got to slowly roll.
You got to know how
to present yourself.
Like, there's
certain ways.
And I think that's what our school

(42:52):
and a lot of schools fail to do.
Like, okay,
there's two modes.
Like, try not to
misbehave with teachers.
Like, they're just,
let's say, your bosses.
And then students,
you do whatever.
But they just act
like the authority.
They're not, like, someone
you should be respecting.
Authority is always seen as a negative
thing where they're
trying to put you down.

(43:13):
And that's not the way to go about
it when going about professionalism.
Because there's.
..
We respect, like,
are, like, higher up.
So, like, that's what they need to build
more of in terms of, like, student to,
like, faculty
relationship.
Yeah.
I think that's
what it...
I think it goes back to, like, showing
what professionalism can look like
and how different
it could be.
I think putting it into, like, one

(43:35):
box is where it's, like, I don't know
how I agree
with that.
But, like, even in the sense,
like, how we speak, right?
Or, like,
what we say.
Like, now that I have, like, a college and
master's degree, like, I have different
words and different language
to express myself, right?
And that could be understood
by, like, my colleagues, right?

(43:57):
Maybe, right?
Sure.
And vice versa.
But sometimes I don't know what
the fuck they're talking about.
And I'll be like, oh,
what does that mean?
Like, and I don't.
Because sometimes there's certain acronyms
and things like that in schools that are
specific to schools and
some different per school.
So, I think it's also very important
to ask those questions without being,
like, what?
Like, feeling bad

(44:17):
about it, I guess.
I mean, I do feel
bad sometimes.
I'm not going
to say I don't.
Like, I'm a fucking
boss, bitch.
But, you know,
it's important.
Yeah, to be realistic about, like,
the language that they have, like,
to communicate.
Because I think they might think,
oh, you should be communicating these
heavy, like,
jargon words.
I'm like, you could
throw out the same idea.
It might take you a
little bit more words.

(44:37):
It might not seem, but
the idea is still there.
That's what you
want to communicate.
And I think where I was trying to go
with this was that I've noticed, like,
in, like, parent
meetings, for example.
Like, sometimes, like, your parent, the
parents that we're working with don't
have the same education
degree as you, right?
Or they're just
working people.
And you're throwing all this jargon at

(44:58):
them from these testings,
from this and that.
And they're sitting there, like,
like, you know, deer in headlights.
And I think even in that sense, like,
professionals don't come into play.
You don't need
to do all that.
Tell them what it is at,
like, a normal level.
And I think that also is something that

(45:19):
I've learned also working
in this past year.
Like, oh, like, we, you know, I'm
just going to say, like, I'm having a
conversation with you versus, like,
so on this date, we
tested blank for blank.
You know
what I mean?
And it's, like, that
means nothing to them.
Like, tell them
what it means.
Have a conversation
with them.

(45:40):
I don't know.
Just meeting people
where they're at.
Yeah, especially because some parents
won't ask what it means because they're,
like, it's not the
environment for it.
Like, they're,
like, oh, I guess.
They'll say,
like, nod.
Like, oh,
yeah, I agree.
And that's it.
And walk away.
And going home
without the knowledge.
And the kid might end up, like,
not understanding at home.

(46:02):
Like, oh, the parents
didn't understand.
That they need this
type of support at home.
And it could just
stack up again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, it's, it's how, I think it's,
how can it be the most accessible?
And whatever you do, like, it's
not, I think equity, right?
It's the thing.
I was, like,
fuck equality.

(46:22):
I mean, yes,
equality.
But, like, you can't get to
equality if you don't have equity.
Like, it's not going to
be the same for everybody.
And, like,
because it's not.
That's the world
we live in.
So, let's adjust it.
And that's,
I don't know.
That just seems
fair to me.
Yeah.
In my eyes.
I don't know.
So, that's why, I guess, even going back
to, like, oh, like,
helping homeless people or
this or that.
I was, like, I don't, like, see

(46:44):
myself as better or them as less.
I just think
someone needs help.
And it was, like,
the other way around.
You would want
someone to help you.
So, why not
do the same?
Yeah, that
makes sense.
You know?
It's not rocket science
in my brain, I guess.
Well, thank you for
being on podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you for
having me.
This was a
splendid time.

(47:04):
You're going to
have a lot to edit.
I know.
This podcast was
three, four hours?
Yeah.
You're going to
get me talking.
Three, four hours.
But, yeah, I
had a good time.
This was fun.
And, again, I'm very
honored to be here.
Yeah, thanks
for coming.
It was a fun time.
Second guest.
Second guest.
Absolutely.
I'll be here again.
No.

(47:25):
All right.
So, wrap, folks.
And then, if you would like,
just stay along for the bloopers.