Art for Everyone: The City as a Living, Public Gallery

Sofi Rami is a first-generation Colombian-American artist and explorer of the human experience. She especially works in the field of public art—large-scale murals and installations that are visible in everyday spaces, turning walls and streets into places of connection and imagination. In both her public projects and her private studio, Sofi uses acrylics and spray paint to create dynamic, abstract, and dreamlike landscapes. Her pieces weave together personal narratives, cultural heritage, and a strong foot in the natural world. In this conversation, we talk about her history and inspiration as an artist. Sofi reflects on how the fine art world often feels inaccessible to the public and how public art can serve as a democratizing force. She shares her earliest influences, the emancipatory experience of painting live at events, and the ways she involves communities in her creative process. We also explore how her work engages with themes of mental health, cultural heritage, and the broader social responsibilities of artists. Support the project: patreon.com/TherapyfortheWorld Music credits: “Limit 70,” licensed by Kevin MacLeod “Meditation” by Jules Massenet, from the Library of Congress Jukebox

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
the fine art world is so removed from the public and so many people feel like they can't participate in it often.

(00:09):
Either they don't have the finances to become a collector or they don't feel like they have the taste to, um, understand what is good necessarily, and.
art just gets rid of all of that.
And it's like, no, this is for the community.
This is for happens to walk down the street every day and it can become a part of their daily landscape.

(00:32):
And I think that that feels so powerful to me because, um, I think that that's how we reach the artists that may have never been an artist otherwise, or the creator that can change.
Things for the next generation or start conversations and share perspectives that otherwise wouldn't have been given like a chance. 8 00:01:03,400.834411281 --> 00:01:04,715.834411281 Welcome to Therapy for the World. 9 00:01:05,365.834411281 --> 00:01:12,235.834411281 An interview series exploring the personal stories of people working across spectrum of self-care and world care. 10 00:01:12,745.834411281 --> 00:01:18,505.834411281 I'm Dan Sikorsky, a writing teacher and therapist, and the other voice you hear is Sophie Rami. 11 00:01:19,75.834411281 --> 00:01:25,195.834411281 Sophie is a first generation Colombian American artist and explorer of the human experience. 12 00:01:25,585.834411281 --> 00:01:33,355.834411281 She especially works in the field of public art, large scale murals and installations that are visible in everyday spaces. 13 00:01:33,685.834411281 --> 00:01:37,975.834411281 Turning walls and streets into places of connection and imagination. 14 00:01:38,485.834411281 --> 00:01:47,905.83441128 In both her public projects and her private studio, Sophie uses acrylics and spray paint to create dynamic, abstract and dreamlike landscapes. 15 00:01:48,205.83441128 --> 00:01:54,85.83441128 Her pieces weave together personal narratives, cultural heritage, and a strong foot in the natural world. 16 00:01:54,940.83441128 --> 00:01:59,290.83441128 In this conversation, we talk about her history and inspiration as an artist. 17 00:01:59,710.83441128 --> 00:02:06,940.83441128 She reflects on how the fine art world often feels inaccessible to the public and how public art can serve as a democratizing force. 18 00:02:08,155.83441128 --> 00:02:18,115.83441128 She shares her earliest influences, the emancipatory experience of painting live at events and the ways she involves communities in her creative process. 19 00:02:18,505.83441128 --> 00:02:27,85.83441128 We also explore how her work engages with themes of mental health, cultural heritage, and the broader social responsibilities of artists. 20 00:02:27,535.83441128 --> 00:02:33,85.83441128 We recorded this on Tuesday, August 19th, 2025 at two in the afternoon. 21 00:02:33,445.83441128 --> 00:02:34,795.83441128 Here's our conversation. 22 00:02:45,713.83441128 --> 00:02:48,17.7119623 Sophie, it's a pleasure to be here with you. 23 00:02:48,907.7119623 --> 00:03:01,287.92741128 I'd love to start off by asking you, as we tend to, if you can, point to something in your early life, in your childhood, in those earliest years that you think helped shape the person you are today. 24 00:03:03,252.92741128 --> 00:03:03,462.92741128 Hi. 25 00:03:03,462.92741128 --> 00:03:05,112.92741128 Yeah, it's so good to be chatting with you. 26 00:03:05,112.92741128 --> 00:03:08,832.92741128 Um, I, I love this question so much. 27 00:03:08,832.92741128 --> 00:03:16,2.92741128 I think that it, um, really reminds me of the wonderful example that I had by my mother. 28 00:03:16,362.92741128 --> 00:03:22,302.92741128 Um, she, she's an entrepreneur and a huge reason why I felt like I. 29 00:03:23,137.92741128 --> 00:03:27,307.92741128 be crazy enough or able enough to pursue my own business as well. 30 00:03:27,787.92741128 --> 00:03:50,737.92741128 Um, she's an architect and the sole breadwinner for our family growing up and, um, supporting a family of five and getting to see her value, creating beauty in spaces and the resilience of her position had her go through and overcome throughout her life in order to. 31 00:03:51,427.92741128 --> 00:04:04,417.92741128 To main maintain for us as a family and also, um, her own identity and her own, experience as a woman was an incredibly impactful thing for me to watch growing up. 32 00:04:06,217.92741128 --> 00:04:10,397.92741128 yeah, I think that, um, I always knew that I wanted to. 33 00:04:11,197.92741128 --> 00:04:14,257.92741128 Be creative and create in, in my own way. 34 00:04:14,347.92741128 --> 00:04:16,687.92741128 But for many years I didn't know what that would look like. 35 00:04:16,687.92741128 --> 00:04:19,687.92741128 I, um, I just knew it wasn't gonna be exactly how she did it. 36 00:04:20,347.92741128 --> 00:04:36,607.92741128 And then, um, outside of her example, I would say probably in about middle school is when I got my first, um, real like encouraging feedback from a teacher in terms of art. 37 00:04:36,607.92741128 --> 00:04:47,677.92741128 And I was included in an honors art program Previously, um, having only spoken Spanish at home, my early education was really difficult. 38 00:04:47,677.92741128 --> 00:04:50,377.92741128 Like I had to do a lot of tutoring, I had dyslexia. 39 00:04:50,827.92741128 --> 00:04:57,787.92741128 I didn't, um, feel like a lot of the subjects in that transition just came easy to me. 40 00:04:57,787.92741128 --> 00:05:03,607.92741128 And Art was the first place where I was really celebrated for that innate talent. 41 00:05:03,697.92741128 --> 00:05:09,907.92741128 And I think that, um, yeah, that my middle school art teacher was definitely formative outside of my mom. 42 00:05:10,27.92741128 --> 00:05:10,627.92741128 The two of them. 43 00:05:12,62.92741128 --> 00:05:12,652.92741128 That's lovely. 44 00:05:12,802.92741128 --> 00:05:22,807.92741128 What kind of projects were you working on in middle school? Do you remember those? Yeah, I actually remember one so specifically because I just, I think it just filled me with so much confidence and pride. 45 00:05:22,807.92741128 --> 00:05:35,287.92741128 It was these, uh, triptych, like a three panel painting of butterfly wings, but I did these like abstract washes behind them and then really graphic line work on top. 46 00:05:36,247.92741128 --> 00:05:40,147.92741128 and it was like a butterfly in the different stages of flying, going across all three. 47 00:05:41,287.92741128 --> 00:05:47,707.92741128 I think that, um, yeah, that project has always stayed with me, like the, the level of control. 48 00:05:47,707.92741128 --> 00:05:54,397.92741128 And now looking back on it, like, I think this is the, the first kind of realization I've had because I haven't thought about this project in a long time. 49 00:05:54,817.92741128 --> 00:06:09,727.92741128 Um, it, it displays two techniques that I have like, kind of really, uh, described eras in my art, like a very graphic approach to art versus a very soft edge fluid approach. 50 00:06:10,972.92741128 --> 00:06:13,372.92741128 That piece had both of them, which is really interesting. 51 00:06:14,162.92741128 --> 00:06:16,187.92741128 What are those two approaches? Um, I, I. 52 00:06:16,747.92741128 --> 00:06:18,632.92741128 Would love to visualize them a little bit more if we can. 53 00:06:19,402.92741128 --> 00:06:19,732.92741128 Yeah. 54 00:06:19,822.92741128 --> 00:06:30,622.92741128 So, um, like thinking of pushing pigments and blending gradients in a really soft edged way where, where it feels almost like. 55 00:06:31,507.92741128 --> 00:06:36,877.92741128 Like tie dye in a sense where everything is just amorphous and kind of blending with one another. 56 00:06:37,177.92741128 --> 00:06:43,207.92741128 And then graphic would be like the line work that I used, which was on top of that kind of abstract colored background. 57 00:06:43,687.92741128 --> 00:06:49,807.92741128 Which is very like clean edges, like almost digital in its representation. 58 00:06:50,197.92741128 --> 00:06:55,747.92741128 Um, and I leaned very hard into digital art for a period of my life, especially during undergrad. 59 00:06:55,747.92741128 --> 00:07:04,867.92741128 And then, and then more, more recently, I've leaned into the softness a little bit more and marrying both and finding that balance, I think is where my best work is. 60 00:07:05,832.92741128 --> 00:07:12,912.92741128 I'm so in awe of people who, beyond creating art, can also speak about it, uh, in, in these terms. 61 00:07:12,912.92741128 --> 00:07:18,102.92741128 You know, to have the vocabulary to describe such visual elements, I think is, it's, is difficult. 62 00:07:18,222.92741128 --> 00:07:27,72.92741128 Probably it's something that one is taught in art education, but in any case, to speak beautifully about art, to make art of one's words in that way is, is a, a talent. 63 00:07:27,432.92741128 --> 00:07:32,352.92741128 Um, so we were talking about childhood and like how that was, how art kind of had its start there. 64 00:07:32,917.92741128 --> 00:07:38,947.92741128 What was it like for you to decide in over those earlier years that you wanted to dedicate yourself to this, you know. 65 00:07:40,597.92741128 --> 00:07:41,272.92741128 I think that. 66 00:07:41,392.92741128 --> 00:07:43,342.92741128 Didn't really make a choice. 67 00:07:43,342.92741128 --> 00:08:03,892.92741128 I just, um, until I was like trying to decide where I was gonna go to school, so at the end of high school, um, but throughout middle school and high school, when I was, I was really just creating, for me, I think it was a way to like process a lot of emotions that I had and, and trials that I had during that season of my life. 68 00:08:03,892.92741128 --> 00:08:10,612.92741128 And, um, I didn't have a whole lot of examples telling me that it could be a career. 69 00:08:11,107.92741128 --> 00:08:23,497.92741128 Until actually got into, um, like the electronic music scene in the DMV area and I started to see people do live painting at concerts. 70 00:08:23,857.92741128 --> 00:08:32,197.92741128 And I became friends with some of the folks that were doing that and, um, they were like a few years older than me at the time. 71 00:08:32,287.92741128 --> 00:08:34,477.92741128 And, um, just really. 72 00:08:34,852.92741128 --> 00:08:45,832.92741128 Showing me that like, you don't have to just be a starving artist, that you can really find niches and, and ways to, to tap into community that will really be supportive of, of art. 73 00:08:45,922.92741128 --> 00:08:57,172.92741128 Um, and I think the music scene and, and is a one community that really does commission a lot of artwork, whether it's for album art or live art or installation work at their events. 74 00:08:57,232.92741128 --> 00:09:04,252.92741128 And so witnessing that happen and that level of collaboration, um, from multiple different parties was like. 75 00:09:04,687.92741128 --> 00:09:06,517.92741128 Okay, I can find a home here. 76 00:09:07,627.92741128 --> 00:09:11,797.92741128 from there I just started doing it for fun and to tap into that community. 77 00:09:12,247.92741128 --> 00:09:24,127.92741128 And it just like, it became a natural progression of getting opportunities where I can actually monetize artwork outside of just selling canvases, but as like a performance. 78 00:09:24,697.92741128 --> 00:09:31,747.92741128 Um, and then I think that's what gave me the confidence to transition into murals because I'd been painting in front of people for years. 79 00:09:33,592.92741128 --> 00:09:34,42.92741128 Wow. 80 00:09:34,762.92741128 --> 00:09:36,952.92741128 I never thought of it as a performance. 81 00:09:36,982.92741128 --> 00:09:46,642.92741128 It shows how little I know about this world and how, how important it is to come into touch in contact with it, in touch with it in the way that you were at those electronic music festivals. 82 00:09:47,512.92741128 --> 00:09:57,7.92741128 What does it look like to perform a mural? What, what does someone see as they're watching you do it? Yeah, it's so vulnerable. 83 00:09:57,157.92741128 --> 00:09:57,907.92741128 Um, I. 84 00:09:59,542.92741128 --> 00:10:03,352.92741128 Have now find found like peace in that performance aspect. 85 00:10:03,442.92741128 --> 00:10:11,722.92741128 Um, but initially that was like the biggest hurdle was just being uh, as my craft also was developing, you know, in those early years. 86 00:10:11,722.92741128 --> 00:10:13,822.92741128 Like I just wasn't as good of an artist back then. 87 00:10:14,152.92741128 --> 00:10:18,142.92741128 And so there was a longer, um, what I call like an ugly phase or an. 88 00:10:18,707.92741128 --> 00:10:25,367.92741128 Undiscernible phase of the art where people are like, what is it? Like, I don't know, where they're making their assumptions and it's like, not what you're trying to paint at all. 89 00:10:26,177.92741128 --> 00:10:31,907.92741128 which can be a little discouraging if you're like mid-process of trying to like develop something out. 90 00:10:31,937.92741128 --> 00:10:47,687.92741128 But, um, but yeah, it just, I think that, um, a lot of the performance side of it is talking to people about what's happening so that they can kind of understand and also listening to them because I think it, when people see you performing live art. 91 00:10:48,487.92741128 --> 00:10:53,227.92741128 They immediately start to draw on their own experiences with art. 92 00:10:53,287.92741128 --> 00:11:09,967.92741128 And, you know, maybe like the discouraging or unsupportive people in their life that made them feel like they couldn't do art or the people that very formative for them or just, you know, their, um, insecurities around the subjects often come out. 93 00:11:10,297.92741128 --> 00:11:18,997.92741128 And so I think there's a lot of like, Willing emotional labor that goes into it that I think is unseen. 94 00:11:20,287.92741128 --> 00:11:25,27.92741128 but there's some really beautiful moments of human connection happen there. 95 00:11:25,57.92741128 --> 00:11:30,997.92741128 Um, if someone's really willing to take the time and sit with you, and sometimes people will just camp out and watch. 96 00:11:31,747.92741128 --> 00:11:42,367.92741128 Me work for a few hours of the night and then they'll meander off and, and they'll, you know, go back to the stage or sometimes I'm positioned right next to it and so they can watch me and see the show. 97 00:11:42,427.92741128 --> 00:11:45,7.92741128 Um, it just depends on where the venue puts you. 98 00:11:45,7.92741128 --> 00:11:53,437.92741128 But, but yeah, it's, uh, very much just, I used to go in with, uh, completely fresh canvas and start. 99 00:11:54,262.92741128 --> 00:11:58,282.92741128 Try to get to a, a relatively close to finished stage. 100 00:11:59,362.92741128 --> 00:12:05,182.92741128 but now I, I like to go at like a halfway point and then get as much as I can done. 101 00:12:05,182.92741128 --> 00:12:13,942.92741128 Sometimes I'll bring canvases across three, three events and they'll travel with me, um, as I'm doing it all summer and I'll, 'cause I like to take my time a little bit more. 102 00:12:14,437.92741128 --> 00:12:19,897.92741128 And that pressure has also been relieved after like so many years of doing this where I feel like I need to deliver something. 103 00:12:20,317.92741128 --> 00:12:29,107.92741128 Um, most of the time it's just, I'll bring like some finished pieces on the side and I'll do a little vending scenario where people can see what it will end up like. 104 00:12:29,197.92741128 --> 00:12:37,387.92741128 Um, I just try to let people in a little bit into that experience and what it looks like to be in progress. 105 00:12:38,482.92741128 --> 00:12:47,197.92741128 I like the theme that comes up there of things becoming easier with time, which is something we could probably say about any career that you are initially just super stressed about. 106 00:12:47,727.92741128 --> 00:12:54,357.92741128 An activity, an action, especially when it's per, when it's performative, when it's public and it becoming a little bit easier with time. 107 00:12:54,417.92741128 --> 00:12:55,557.92741128 I can definitely relate. 108 00:12:56,457.92741128 --> 00:13:00,747.92741128 You were drawn pretty early on then to public art, to murals. 109 00:13:01,497.92741128 --> 00:13:18,412.92741128 What, what do you understand by public art and by murals? What, what role do they serve in the spaces that they, that they take up? I think that my biggest draw to public art was that it is, in my opinion, the ultimate, uh, democratization of art. 110 00:13:18,412.92741128 --> 00:13:19,462.92741128 It really. 111 00:13:19,882.92741128 --> 00:13:21,652.92741128 Breaks down all these barriers. 112 00:13:21,652.92741128 --> 00:13:31,252.92741128 Like the, the fine art world is so removed from the public and so many people feel like they can't participate in it often. 113 00:13:31,252.92741128 --> 00:13:42,322.92741128 Either they don't have the finances to become a collector or they don't feel like they have the taste to, um, understand what is good necessarily, and. 114 00:13:43,237.92741128 --> 00:13:45,367.92741128 art just gets rid of all of that. 115 00:13:45,637.92741128 --> 00:13:47,377.92741128 And it's like, no, this is for the community. 116 00:13:47,377.92741128 --> 00:13:55,27.92741128 This is for happens to walk down the street every day and it can become a part of their daily landscape. 117 00:13:55,27.92741128 --> 00:14:08,887.92741128 And I think that that feels so powerful to me because, um, I think that that's how we reach the artists that may have never been an artist otherwise, or the creator that can change. 118 00:14:09,457.92741128 --> 00:14:16,627.92741128 Things for the next generation or start conversations and share perspectives that otherwise wouldn't have been given like a chance. 119 00:14:17,197.92741128 --> 00:14:20,407.92741128 And I think it starts from like witnessing public art or seeing that. 120 00:14:22,687.92741128 --> 00:14:23,532.92741128 One of the projects you. 121 00:14:23,802.92741128 --> 00:14:31,902.92741128 Recently had, um, as partners in the process, we could say kids, you know, neighborhood, the, the youngest people in, in a community. 122 00:14:31,902.92741128 --> 00:14:35,712.92741128 You worked on a project called the Hill Manor Sidewalk Project. 123 00:14:36,222.92741128 --> 00:14:48,847.92741128 Uh, what was it like there to work with these kids and what, what kind of conversations were you having with them around this? Oh man, that was one of the challenging and. 124 00:14:50,2.92741128 --> 00:14:52,882.92741128 Even more rewarding projects I've ever done in my career. 125 00:14:52,972.92741128 --> 00:15:01,522.92741128 Um, I was brought out by Sprocket Mural Works, which is a mural festival that has been in Harrisburg a very long time. 126 00:15:01,522.92741128 --> 00:15:10,522.92741128 They have, I think this year they installed their hundredth public art project and, uh, we did, I believe seven in the whole Manor community. 127 00:15:10,522.92741128 --> 00:15:14,332.92741128 And I was the only, uh, ground mural and their first ground mural ever. 128 00:15:14,752.92741128 --> 00:15:18,712.92741128 So, um, I really am grateful that they trusted me with that and. 129 00:15:19,117.92741128 --> 00:15:25,27.92741128 Allowed me to kind of show them what the, the technical side of executing something like that looks like. 130 00:15:25,477.92741128 --> 00:15:26,947.92741128 Um, it was a huge success. 131 00:15:27,97.92741128 --> 00:15:39,247.92741128 Uh, we had to install during a heat wave, which was the, what made it very difficult because, um, when you're painting on the ground, on concrete, you're just exposed and covering that large of an area. 132 00:15:39,247.92741128 --> 00:15:43,147.92741128 Like we had easy up and stuff to create shade in certain areas, but. 133 00:15:44,17.92741128 --> 00:15:46,417.92741128 pretty much out there in 103 degree weather. 134 00:15:46,537.92741128 --> 00:15:48,517.92741128 Um, I tried to start earlier. 135 00:15:48,517.92741128 --> 00:15:57,817.92741128 I was starting at like 5:00 AM and would finish around 5:00 PM and I had, uh, about five to six adult volunteers, throughout the week. 136 00:15:57,817.92741128 --> 00:16:04,597.92741128 And then we did a boys and girls club activation where I had a dozen kids and I'll, I'll also say we had probably. 137 00:16:05,422.92741128 --> 00:16:14,872.92741128 Three or four kids from the, like the apartments that were right along the sidewalk that would just come out and hang out with us throughout that whole week too, in a more informal way. 138 00:16:15,322.92741128 --> 00:16:19,762.92741128 Um, but, but they always wanted to paint for a few hours and I would find something for them to do. 139 00:16:19,762.92741128 --> 00:16:21,52.92741128 And they were wonderful. 140 00:16:21,442.92741128 --> 00:16:27,322.92741128 Um, the boys and Girls Club kids were so excited and just like. 141 00:16:28,282.92741128 --> 00:16:34,882.92741128 Eager and joyful about not just the one, the mural that we were working on, but all the other installs that were happening. 142 00:16:35,332.92741128 --> 00:16:37,732.92741128 And they got to work on another project as well. 143 00:16:37,792.92741128 --> 00:16:43,312.9274113 Um, and I was really grateful because it was a little bit later in the install. 144 00:16:43,312.9274113 --> 00:16:48,742.9274113 I would say it was on our fourth day and we had, we did it, um, across seven days. 145 00:16:48,772.9274113 --> 00:16:55,822.9274113 We did 4,000 square feet, which is my largest, I honestly was biting my nails a little bit at the beginning of the project, worried about if. 146 00:16:56,212.9274113 --> 00:17:04,612.9274113 It was even possible to cover that much square footage, uh, with that much time, given that we had a couple of volunteers locked in. 147 00:17:04,612.9274113 --> 00:17:11,752.9274113 But the rest of it was like whoever shows up, shows up and there's a chance that like the community could be busy or just uninterested. 148 00:17:12,502.9274113 --> 00:17:24,922.9274113 so, um, the turnout and the fact that people wanted to show up during the heat wave and sit in that environment with me and do that hard work with me just gave me so much energy to show up. 149 00:17:25,672.9274113 --> 00:17:26,962.9274113 Be my best self for them. 150 00:17:27,22.9274113 --> 00:17:29,362.9274113 Um, really grateful for that. 151 00:17:29,362.9274113 --> 00:17:33,592.9274113 I think that they really were my fuel that week. 152 00:17:33,652.9274113 --> 00:17:41,572.9274113 Um, the kids were with us for a few hours on that fourth day, and they blew through the work that I had prepped. 153 00:17:41,572.9274113 --> 00:17:51,352.9274113 So normally when I work with kids, I try to, um, do like a paint by numbers kind of scenario to make it really easy, especially with kids that are, um. 154 00:17:52,447.9274113 --> 00:18:04,177.9274113 Like fourth grade or lower, they have less, uh, dexterity in their hands and their ability to, to deal with like pressure control is just not fully there yet. 155 00:18:04,267.9274113 --> 00:18:07,807.9274113 And so having like a large area for them to just feel color. 156 00:18:08,227.9274113 --> 00:18:14,647.9274113 And then I'll normally edge it so that that clean edge is already there and they can just go in and kind of be free. 157 00:18:14,647.9274113 --> 00:18:22,927.9274113 And I don't have to, um, I don't wanna take the joy out of the painting for them and be like overly, policing their technique at that stage. 158 00:18:22,927.9274113 --> 00:18:29,377.9274113 I just want them to feel free with the pigment and leave the experience feeling like, oh, I could do this again. 159 00:18:29,737.9274113 --> 00:18:31,777.9274113 Or, um, I wanna like. 160 00:18:33,247.9274113 --> 00:18:39,187.9274113 Maybe it'll develop into a creative career for one of 'em, um, that they didn't envision beforehand. 161 00:18:40,747.9274113 --> 00:18:53,587.9274113 being in home manner specifically, uh, was really moving because this is a community that has a lot of hardship and um, a lot of marginalized identities coming together. 162 00:18:53,587.9274113 --> 00:18:58,597.9274113 But also one of the most beautiful examples like. 163 00:18:59,167.9274113 --> 00:19:05,107.9274113 Community out of necessity that I've ever witnessed and I wasn't prepared for it. 164 00:19:05,107.9274113 --> 00:19:20,707.9274113 It like was a very emotional thing to witness because especially now, like in the United States, the late capitalist society that we live in really divides people into these nuclear households of suburbia. 165 00:19:20,737.9274113 --> 00:19:24,157.9274113 And there's a lot less of this like, um. 166 00:19:25,87.9274113 --> 00:19:29,137.9274113 like radical community, like if your neighbor needs something, you'll help them out. 167 00:19:29,137.9274113 --> 00:19:34,567.9274113 If somebody needs childcare, you know that the woman two has two doors down, will take care of your kids. 168 00:19:34,567.9274113 --> 00:19:43,657.9274113 And, and that kind of thing where, um, people are like out in these common areas, just, uh, really engaging in life together. 169 00:19:44,47.9274113 --> 00:19:52,957.9274113 And I had so many stories shared with me about, about what that looks like for them and different trials that the, the community had gone through. 170 00:19:53,47.9274113 --> 00:20:12,667.9274113 Um, and they were so open with me about that, and I, I felt so, um, honored that they felt safe to, to talk to me about all the things that they experienced and even when people had, um, didn't understand what was going on with the murals because. 171 00:20:13,522.9274113 --> 00:20:25,882.9274113 They have a lot of issues in their buildings and different utilities that aren't working or their pool houses has been closed for months and these different things that they wish get funded and fixed. 172 00:20:25,882.9274113 --> 00:20:31,312.9274113 And then all of a sudden they see these seven murals come in and take up space. 173 00:20:31,342.9274113 --> 00:20:34,402.9274113 And they're like, well, what about all of our problems? And they don't understand. 174 00:20:35,122.9274113 --> 00:20:40,882.9274113 The, like the pipeline of funding and the, the legal bureaucracy of it all. 175 00:20:40,882.9274113 --> 00:20:48,292.9274113 And like the grant that was funding this project being for community nourishment and it couldn't be for any kind of utility aspect. 176 00:20:48,292.9274113 --> 00:20:56,192.9274113 And so, um, being able to have those candid conversations though, and hear their, uh, concern I think was really valuable. 177 00:20:56,582.9274113 --> 00:21:05,462.9274113 And I think that that was a wonderful thing that Sprocket did really well, really integrating community feedback the whole process. 178 00:21:05,462.9274113 --> 00:21:07,307.9274113 Like every single artist did two designs. 179 00:21:08,297.9274113 --> 00:21:19,517.9274113 And, uh, about two months before we started install, they host like a pizza party for the community where they had everyone come and place their votes on which of the two, uh, mockups they really enjoyed. 180 00:21:19,817.9274113 --> 00:21:24,887.9274113 And then notes both of them if there was still something that they wanted to see more of. 181 00:21:25,337.9274113 --> 00:21:27,137.9274113 And so that kind of input. 182 00:21:27,527.9274113 --> 00:21:42,107.9274113 Really allowed people to self-identify with the projects a little bit more and not feel like this was like some gentrifying organization that just came in and took a bunch of space, uh, and resources from a community that really needs resources. 183 00:21:42,497.9274113 --> 00:21:53,387.9274113 Um, but instead they started to see it as, oh, this is gonna bring media coverage and the ability for our voices and our community to get a platform. 184 00:21:54,92.9274113 --> 00:21:56,312.9274113 that then we can get those needs met in the future. 185 00:21:56,312.9274113 --> 00:22:06,692.9274113 And that it, this is the beginning of hopefully a greater spotlight on the Hall Manor community, because it is so full of life and so full of so much potential. 186 00:22:06,692.9274113 --> 00:22:16,502.9274113 Like I had most incredible kids with the best attitudes, the, from the neighborhood, not just the Boys and Girls Club that were there throughout the week, um, with us. 187 00:22:17,357.9274113 --> 00:22:37,157.9274113 They helped me from anything to cleaning my brushes, to making sure people stayed off the wet areas because that was definitely something that was probably, um, one of the trickier obstacles when you have 4,000 square feet that is at different stages of being wet to try and keep people off of it. 188 00:22:37,217.9274113 --> 00:22:45,407.9274113 Um, but you know, respectfully and also like reroute them that makes sense for them or help them if they have bags or a cart or whatever. 189 00:22:46,337.9274113 --> 00:22:46,997.9274113 safely. 190 00:22:47,477.9274113 --> 00:22:51,767.9274113 Um, yeah, they were just, I couldn't have done it without them, honestly. 191 00:22:53,947.9274113 --> 00:22:56,907.9274113 I can tell it was a moving experience 'cause it opens up so many areas. 192 00:22:57,422.9274113 --> 00:22:59,432.9274113 Is of of inquiry for me. 193 00:22:59,792.9274113 --> 00:23:06,32.9274113 Uh, you know, starting with the, the collaborative element of the experience. 194 00:23:06,287.9274113 --> 00:23:06,497.9274113 Yeah. 195 00:23:06,872.9274113 --> 00:23:20,372.9274113 I'm a pretty type A person sometimes, and I can just imagine being quite stressed at the mural, not coming out exactly as I envisioned it because there are others, other painters in the kitchen, if you will. 196 00:23:20,582.9274113 --> 00:23:20,912.9274113 Right. 197 00:23:21,182.9274113 --> 00:23:30,932.9274113 Uh, but it sounds like you were able to surrender that pretty well, um, to by, by the paint, by numbers, for example, or, uh, by maybe just deciding. 198 00:23:32,552.9274113 --> 00:23:38,132.9274113 Surrendering peacefully to the fact that it was gonna be a group effort and it was gonna be for this community too. 199 00:23:38,492.9274113 --> 00:23:39,2.9274113 So. 200 00:23:39,272.9274113 --> 00:23:39,692.9274113 Love that. 201 00:23:39,692.9274113 --> 00:23:40,172.9274113 Love that. 202 00:23:40,622.9274113 --> 00:23:58,472.9274113 Uh, one of the topics we were talking about earlier, before off the air is the conversation then happens with a new client or community when you are brought onto the team, right? When you're brought, brought into the community, into that area, onto that wall, whatever it is. 203 00:23:59,477.9274113 --> 00:24:05,447.9274113 And they know they want something there, but it's not really clear yet perhaps what it is that they want there. 204 00:24:05,747.9274113 --> 00:24:23,357.9274113 What does that conversation look like? What do you see your role as in, in that, um, decision process? Yeah, I think that, um, when it varies sometimes, um, the project is very much like, okay, I'm delivering something. 205 00:24:23,477.9274113 --> 00:24:24,617.9274113 They have a vision. 206 00:24:24,677.9274113 --> 00:24:25,877.9274113 This is very specific like. 207 00:24:27,227.9274113 --> 00:24:33,647.9274113 Normally if I work with a school, there's a lot of parameters around what can be included. 208 00:24:34,67.9274113 --> 00:24:47,87.9274113 Oftentimes their work, they want me to deliver something that's very specific to the ethos of the school or their brand, uh, whether they have like mascots or, you know, and kind of becomes like very tailored to their identity. 209 00:24:47,417.9274113 --> 00:24:50,957.9274113 And I am, uh, very much just a vessel in that sense. 210 00:24:51,347.9274113 --> 00:24:51,407.9274113 Um. 211 00:24:53,57.9274113 --> 00:24:58,127.9274113 Other times I have the luxury of people being like, I don't really know, but I trust you. 212 00:24:59,177.9274113 --> 00:25:01,127.9274113 And so go crazy and. 213 00:25:01,892.9274113 --> 00:25:17,492.9274113 Those are selfishly some of my favorites, but I do still get a lot out of the other kinds, um, where it's a little bit more structured of a vision and if someone lands a little bit in between, then I think I just have a conversation about their values and what the goal is for this. 214 00:25:17,492.9274113 --> 00:25:21,932.9274113 So, um, sometimes there are parameters that are outside of even the client. 215 00:25:21,932.9274113 --> 00:25:30,602.9274113 So like if, um, a mural festival that is using tax dollars is commissioning a mural, but it's going on like a private residence. 216 00:25:31,622.9274113 --> 00:25:35,162.9274113 like won a lottery basically for getting a free mural. 217 00:25:36,92.9274113 --> 00:25:41,192.9274113 there a lot of rules that are around, like no advertisements. 218 00:25:41,192.9274113 --> 00:25:47,642.9274113 There's, there can't be any text, there can't be anything that directly ties to, the business. 219 00:25:47,642.9274113 --> 00:25:53,222.9274113 Or maybe like, um, certain political things are outside of the scope. 220 00:25:53,642.9274113 --> 00:25:55,142.9274113 There's other mural festivals that are. 221 00:25:55,472.9274113 --> 00:26:01,682.9274113 Our activism mural festivals, which want that specifically and need, want you to imbue it with a very political narrative. 222 00:26:01,682.9274113 --> 00:26:12,722.9274113 So I think that, um, yeah, we just have a candid conversation about what their values are, what limitations are existing outside of that, and then find a medium. 223 00:26:13,322.9274113 --> 00:26:13,712.9274113 Um. 224 00:26:14,402.9274113 --> 00:26:16,172.9274113 Where everybody's needs are being met. 225 00:26:16,322.9274113 --> 00:26:23,12.9274113 And they also feel like this is something that is going to bring them joy and they're going to interact with on their day to day. 226 00:26:23,252.9274113 --> 00:26:24,362.9274113 And that's really important to me. 227 00:26:24,362.9274113 --> 00:26:31,262.9274113 Like I would never, thankfully, have never had any of my projects painted over, um, because of an issue like that. 228 00:26:31,742.9274113 --> 00:26:43,412.9274113 But that's something that I just try to communicate very clearly and, um, I, but I also am just so eager to do more work that. 229 00:26:44,402.9274113 --> 00:27:06,602.9274113 Is totally up to me because, um, I think that recently I've been leaning a little bit more into the work that is very specific towards the client and with a heavy dose of community programming, which has really gone hand in hand in a beautiful way, like the My Style for, um. 230 00:27:07,622.9274113 --> 00:27:17,912.9274113 I should say, like my more palatable style, a little bit more corporate style is very graphic that is perfect for those paint by number scenarios. 231 00:27:18,32.9274113 --> 00:27:28,922.9274113 If I'm having, you know, kids from a fourth or fifth grade class come in and paint panels with me, that is exactly what they can accomplish and what then I can clean up after them and within a reasonable timeline. 232 00:27:29,252.9274113 --> 00:27:29,967.9274113 Um, but. 233 00:27:30,902.9274113 --> 00:27:41,612.9274113 My style, if I was developing something for my portfolio and my abstract realism style, I never actually had anybody assist me on anything like that. 234 00:27:41,612.9274113 --> 00:27:46,892.9274113 Like that is, I'm pushing my technique in the, with those projects and my vision. 235 00:27:46,892.9274113 --> 00:27:51,242.9274113 And so I get very protective in that space. 236 00:27:51,662.9274113 --> 00:27:57,392.9274113 Um, and I also am learning actively in real time when I'm doing those murals. 237 00:27:57,602.9274113 --> 00:28:02,267.9274113 Um, they're Rare gems and I'm excited. 238 00:28:02,267.9274113 --> 00:28:07,217.9274113 Fort Collins mural project, which is coming up, is going to be one of those that is very much just my vision. 239 00:28:07,517.9274113 --> 00:28:15,917.9274113 Um, even though as a collaboration we kind of have divvied up own styles in that way, um, I think they're gonna marry really beautifully. 240 00:28:16,547.9274113 --> 00:28:27,827.9274113 Uh, but yeah, normally it's just a candid conversation and figuring out the different modalities and needs, uh, for the project, the client, and the larger environment that it's gonna exist in. 241 00:28:29,42.9274113 --> 00:28:48,482.9274113 What are you imagining? What are you envisioning for Fort Collins? So, um, we have a mockup right now that is two portraits that are facing each other that are kind of, um, one has a more peaceful, I would say, like quiet demeanor to her facial expression. 242 00:28:48,482.9274113 --> 00:28:54,632.9274113 And the other one is like upturned of exuding a little bit more energy in that sense. 243 00:28:54,692.9274113 --> 00:28:55,802.9274113 And, um. 244 00:28:56,642.9274113 --> 00:29:04,682.9274113 We wanted that kind, their kind of emo emotion to, to mirror the style of abstract art that's surrounding both portraits. 245 00:29:05,102.9274113 --> 00:29:13,112.9274113 Um, my collaborator is Al Grime and she does only black and white art style murals. 246 00:29:13,112.9274113 --> 00:29:15,512.9274113 So very high contrast, very graphic. 247 00:29:15,782.9274113 --> 00:29:23,282.9274113 And so I'm gonna really lean into my soft, vibrant gradients and the play between the, that like black and white and that. 248 00:29:23,972.9274113 --> 00:29:31,592.9274113 Surreal, vivid color and then the hard edge and that softness, are I think is just gonna marry so beautifully. 249 00:29:31,592.9274113 --> 00:29:39,152.9274113 It's very balanced and yeah, there's just a lot of like, um, abstract rolling forms that kind of interact with each other. 250 00:29:39,152.9274113 --> 00:29:48,902.9274113 There's a little bit of asymmetry and we have some spheres in her style and spheres in my style that are like deconstructing and revealing elements and it's gonna be crazy. 251 00:29:48,902.9274113 --> 00:29:49,382.9274113 I love it. 252 00:29:50,732.9274113 --> 00:29:53,612.9274113 I am thankful for the resonances between the two paintings. 253 00:29:53,612.9274113 --> 00:29:56,537.9274113 You know how they're almost in dialogue with each other? Totally. 254 00:29:57,302.9274113 --> 00:29:59,847.9274113 One of the responses that often. 255 00:30:00,737.9274113 --> 00:30:16,187.9274113 That abstract art often elicits is incomprehension or a desire to work out the specifics of it, to explain it, to sort of make it concrete, to understand it right, to to grasp it, to grasp something that's abstract. 256 00:30:16,187.9274113 --> 00:30:20,587.9274113 By by definition, how do you respond to that urge in the viewer. 257 00:30:22,97.9274113 --> 00:30:25,452.9274113 Yeah, I think I get, um, I get so much of this from my. 258 00:30:25,717.9274113 --> 00:30:31,747.9274113 Live painting history because that is just like person in the moment. 259 00:30:32,557.9274113 --> 00:30:35,977.9274113 First reactions all the time to whatever I'm painting. 260 00:30:36,397.9274113 --> 00:30:38,257.9274113 And I kind of describe it to people. 261 00:30:38,257.9274113 --> 00:30:47,617.9274113 I'm like, I don't, um, if someone asks me like, what does this mean? I ask them what it means to them because I. 262 00:30:48,502.9274113 --> 00:30:57,647.9274113 Like to hear, like, it's almost like a psychological trial to see like, um, what is, what are those things called? Where it's like The RO test ink blood. 263 00:30:58,402.9274113 --> 00:30:59,182.9274113 Exactly, yes. 264 00:30:59,182.9274113 --> 00:31:00,592.9274113 It feels very much like that. 265 00:31:00,592.9274113 --> 00:31:07,42.9274113 And where I don't have the, the training to, to necessarily interpret what that means for that individual. 266 00:31:07,282.9274113 --> 00:31:11,542.9274113 Sometimes it can give me a little bit of a cue or I can ask them to elaborate more. 267 00:31:11,932.9274113 --> 00:31:13,492.9274113 Um, and then. 268 00:31:14,392.9274113 --> 00:31:16,72.9274113 I normally just like encourage it. 269 00:31:16,72.9274113 --> 00:31:17,422.9274113 I'm like, yeah, I can see that. 270 00:31:18,202.9274113 --> 00:31:25,282.9274113 Um, and I, I don't wanna ever, um, I used to, I think in the past be like, oh no, that's not what that is. 271 00:31:25,582.9274113 --> 00:31:33,592.9274113 Um, and I think that was a little bit of like an ego thing that would come into play, um, where I was like, oh, they just don't get it. 272 00:31:33,952.9274113 --> 00:31:38,272.9274113 But then I think that my relationship to abstract art has changed over the years. 273 00:31:38,272.9274113 --> 00:31:40,732.9274113 And now, um, I realize that. 274 00:31:41,437.9274113 --> 00:31:43,357.9274113 I might not even get it. 275 00:31:43,357.9274113 --> 00:31:46,417.9274113 And like they could teach me something about what I'm expressing. 276 00:31:46,417.9274113 --> 00:31:51,217.9274113 And a lot of my process is very intuitive and emotionally driven. 277 00:31:51,997.9274113 --> 00:32:09,577.9274113 so, um, and, and in like a broad sense, like not necessarily like a lived experience or anything super specific that is inspiring me, but, but maybe like more recently I was working on a series of paintings that, um, we're exploring. 278 00:32:10,327.9274113 --> 00:32:13,567.9274113 The different ways in which you can transform energy. 279 00:32:13,597.9274113 --> 00:32:31,627.9274113 I was really inspired by, uh, the current moment that we're in politically here in the United States and how we're facing a lot of big problems and everyone has their own way of solving them or coping with what we're experiencing. 280 00:32:32,47.9274113 --> 00:32:32,377.9274113 Um. 281 00:32:33,232.9274113 --> 00:32:38,62.9274113 How to make room for multiple solutions to these complex problems. 282 00:32:38,62.9274113 --> 00:32:52,522.9274113 Like there is a warrior and there is a peacemaker and there is somebody that is going to do good in small moments and maybe might not be someone showing up at protests, but is volunteering at nonprofits that are being defunded. 283 00:32:52,852.9274113 --> 00:32:55,402.9274113 And so having, um. 284 00:32:56,917.9274113 --> 00:32:58,27.9274113 Through abstract art. 285 00:32:58,27.9274113 --> 00:33:19,447.9274113 I've been exploring this concept of like, how can you channel your energy best? Are you explosive and fiery and loud? Is your, is that your gift or is it something more quiet and subtle and taking all of those emotions I had around that and putting it into form and color has been. 286 00:33:20,902.9274113 --> 00:33:27,442.9274113 helpful for me and also has allowed me to create dialogue around these issues when other people feel helpless and stuck. 287 00:33:27,832.9274113 --> 00:33:33,982.9274113 I'm like, well, your solution to this problem doesn't have to look like somebody else's solution. 288 00:33:34,12.9274113 --> 00:33:36,502.9274113 And so don't judge yourself for not showing up in that way. 289 00:33:38,392.9274113 --> 00:33:42,652.9274113 and that has been like a really wonderful conversation starter as people have been kind of. 290 00:33:43,747.9274113 --> 00:33:48,637.9274113 I let them give their interpretations of what's being seen, and then I kind of cue in. 291 00:33:48,817.9274113 --> 00:33:55,237.9274113 And this is a, um, probably one of the more specific sources of inspiration that I've had for a series of work. 292 00:33:55,627.9274113 --> 00:34:07,777.9274113 Um, so I have had the language around it to kind of in more of a conversation, but in the past, sometimes it's been far more amorphous and I'm still figuring it out as I'm painting it. 293 00:34:07,777.9274113 --> 00:34:11,167.9274113 And so I kind of just let the viewer tell me what they see. 294 00:34:13,402.9274113 --> 00:34:42,832.9274113 Speaking of language around the painting, around the art, do you tend to also journal or write or try to create blurbs about your content while you're creating it or after it? I like to do it after I think I think about certain themes sometimes, and then often because it's very intuitive, painting will teach me something or take me in a different direction, and so especially if I am showcasing it in a gallery. 295 00:34:43,207.9274113 --> 00:34:48,577.9274113 I will do an artist statement and really dive into what I've learned throughout that process. 296 00:34:48,577.9274113 --> 00:34:54,907.9274113 And I, that has been very beneficial for me to become a little bit more intentional because I think that's something I do wanna grow in. 297 00:34:55,267.9274113 --> 00:35:04,687.9274113 Um, which is why I'm excited about this recent series that I've been painting has so much intention from the beginning, um, where in the past my process has been reversed. 298 00:35:04,687.9274113 --> 00:35:07,57.9274113 Where, and I think I still do a little bit of both. 299 00:35:07,147.9274113 --> 00:35:08,977.9274113 Um, but yeah. 300 00:35:09,337.9274113 --> 00:35:13,177.9274113 Normally I'll do is artist statement for galleries and such. 301 00:35:13,477.9274113 --> 00:35:28,682.9274113 And then, um, aside from that, I think that I like talking to other artists in similar cultural moments and seeing how like I fit into a larger movement because I, I love starting art history and so. 302 00:35:30,427.9274113 --> 00:35:31,327.9274113 So much of that. 303 00:35:31,327.9274113 --> 00:35:33,427.9274113 I think that it's hard to see when you're in it. 304 00:35:33,607.9274113 --> 00:35:46,807.9274113 Like what, what will somebody say about you as an artist and your, your role or your contribution to, a certain, um, movement of art or like, you know, I don't even know what they'll call the movement of art that we're in right now. 305 00:35:46,807.9274113 --> 00:35:48,517.9274113 I think public art is having a moment. 306 00:35:48,877.9274113 --> 00:35:57,667.9274113 Um, and I think that specifically in Colorado, there is like a big movement, um, in psychedelic art as well, and. 307 00:35:58,837.9274113 --> 00:36:03,757.9274113 the larger conversations and the more specific conversations around that are still being formed. 308 00:36:03,757.9274113 --> 00:36:10,927.9274113 So I think that going outside of myself to my peers and seeing how we're all moving as a collective has been really interesting. 309 00:36:12,197.3119665 --> 00:36:24,37.3119665 Part of that historical quagmire, right, of how to define what's going on now or how to look at what, what went on in the past is that writing it down, etching it in stone in a way does close it up a little bit. 310 00:36:24,37.3119665 --> 00:36:25,537.3119665 It does define it, classify. 311 00:36:25,597.3119665 --> 00:36:30,577.3119665 It, um, structure it into something that it isn't by nature. 312 00:36:30,907.3119665 --> 00:36:31,147.3119665 Right. 313 00:36:31,207.3119665 --> 00:36:37,657.3119665 You were speaking so, so lovely about how you try to keep things open-ended and we'll say something to someone. 314 00:36:37,657.3119665 --> 00:36:38,77.3119665 Yes. 315 00:36:38,77.3119665 --> 00:36:39,757.3119665 You know, that's also possible. 316 00:36:39,817.3119665 --> 00:36:40,477.3119665 Um, sure. 317 00:36:41,202.3119665 --> 00:36:46,87.3119665 I I wonder how an artist statement can also embrace that abstract, um, piece. 318 00:36:46,87.3119665 --> 00:36:46,297.3119665 Right. 319 00:36:47,672.3119665 --> 00:36:52,562.3119665 Totally leave room for, for the viewer, I think, and I also. 320 00:36:53,47.3119665 --> 00:36:55,27.3119665 Never wanna alienate anybody. 321 00:36:55,27.3119665 --> 00:37:03,367.3119665 Like I have had many times, two viewers tell me that, like they think it's done when I'm maybe at like 70% way. 322 00:37:03,367.3119665 --> 00:37:11,887.3119665 And I've even sold pieces that are like, I had greater vision for it, but somebody else saw it and was like, that is perfect the way that it is. 323 00:37:11,917.3119665 --> 00:37:16,267.3119665 Like, and it is perfect for them, like this moment in the universe that they found it. 324 00:37:16,687.3119665 --> 00:37:21,722.3119665 Um, and I think that has been like a wonderful thing to experience and realize that that. 325 00:37:22,597.3119665 --> 00:37:27,67.3119665 Any form of art, as soon as you put it out there, it's outside of you. 326 00:37:28,27.3119665 --> 00:37:33,487.3119665 Like you could actively still be developing it someone could find it and it's theirs now. 327 00:37:34,297.3119665 --> 00:37:49,327.3119665 You know? And that release and um, really like challenging moment for the ego has been really freeing and reminds me that I'm channeling something outside of myself bringing it to whoever it's supposed to belong to. 328 00:37:50,742.3119665 --> 00:37:51,837.3119665 An important reminder. 329 00:37:53,637.3119665 --> 00:37:55,257.3119665 We spoke earlier about. 330 00:37:55,957.3119665 --> 00:38:03,637.3119665 How one of the big influences for you in your work, um, is mental health and your experiences with mental health. 331 00:38:04,147.3119665 --> 00:38:11,737.3119665 How do you see your relationship between your artistic production and process and mental health? Oh man. 332 00:38:12,847.3119665 --> 00:38:17,617.3119665 I think that art has saved my life on many occasions. 333 00:38:17,677.3119665 --> 00:38:19,207.3119665 Um, I. 334 00:38:21,502.3119665 --> 00:38:28,72.3119665 Have always struggled with, uh, processing cultural cues. 335 00:38:28,72.3119665 --> 00:38:38,782.3119665 Just like, just different things that, um, maybe come easier to people, whether it comes to like making friends communication, finding community. 336 00:38:38,782.3119665 --> 00:38:45,772.3119665 I always felt like a little bit of a black sheep and like, and the way that I process my emotion has also been. 337 00:38:47,32.3119665 --> 00:38:51,767.3119665 Something that I didn't really have the tools for or language for, and I felt very like othered. 338 00:38:51,767.3119665 --> 00:39:01,252.3119665 Like other, there wasn't like a, a lot of people that I could connect with growing up on that level, and those conversations were certainly not happening within my family. 339 00:39:01,732.3119665 --> 00:39:09,502.3119665 And so finding art was a way to slow down everything that I was feeling and. 340 00:39:10,462.3119665 --> 00:39:27,802.3119665 In a way tap into meditation as a tool for, for healing because I think that when I had tried meditation in its tradit traditional sense by just sitting with my thoughts and my breathing, um, neurodivergence, which has caused me to end up all over the place. 341 00:39:28,282.3119665 --> 00:39:38,242.3119665 Um, but I think that I've always been the kind of person that if I was doing a repetitive motor task, that is what allowed me to tap into my piece. 342 00:39:38,737.3119665 --> 00:39:51,667.3119665 And, um, that's very much the still the reason why at large events, even though I might have a crowd of five to 10,000 people around me watching me paint something. 343 00:39:51,697.3119665 --> 00:40:09,832.3119665 And I get a lot of people being like, aren't you scared? Or isn't this like overwhelming and anxious? I have over the, you know, more than a decade of working, um, cultivated, like, almost like a trigger of peace that happens when I focus on the details of something. 344 00:40:09,832.3119665 --> 00:40:15,202.3119665 So I love taking that practice into the way that I live life as well. 345 00:40:15,907.3119665 --> 00:40:39,847.3119665 Whenever I get overwhelmed a public scenario or in, I'm trying to understand relationship dynamics, platonic, romantic, whatever it is, um, I think that slowing down and focusing on like the, the core fundamentals of what is going on, whether that in my painting it's like. 346 00:40:40,522.3119665 --> 00:41:07,612.3119665 The current phase of color that I'm developing or value that I'm developing, and in my life, it's like, why, why? How do I actually feel about these people? Or like, do they fill my cup? Am I giving back to them equally? Or is this something that's draining me? And understanding the, the, the, the foundation of like a relationship needs to be nourishing and a space needs to be nourishing. 347 00:41:07,642.3119665 --> 00:41:09,742.3119665 And if I'm not aligned in those ways. 348 00:41:10,222.3119665 --> 00:41:12,922.3119665 Then it just doesn't have to be for me. 349 00:41:13,12.3119665 --> 00:41:34,852.3119665 And creating those boundaries and not overextending myself, um, has been a wonderful lesson that art has taught me, and has guided my style development, and it has guided my, personality development, you know, like, and who I wanna end up becoming, as I continue to curate myself as a person. 350 00:41:35,182.3119665 --> 00:41:37,672.3119665 I think that, um, especially as women. 351 00:41:38,677.3119665 --> 00:41:41,257.3119665 that we need to be everything for everyone. 352 00:41:41,287.3119665 --> 00:41:43,747.3119665 We need to be easy. 353 00:41:44,47.3119665 --> 00:41:46,807.3119665 Say yes, uh, stay quiet. 354 00:41:46,987.3119665 --> 00:41:53,587.3119665 And I did that for a lot of years and it didn't serve me as, it doesn't serve many people. 355 00:41:53,857.3119665 --> 00:42:07,477.3119665 And so, um, becoming like a habitual choice maker in my art has been something that has allowed me to strengthen, boundaries and saying No. 356 00:42:08,512.3119665 --> 00:42:11,272.3119665 my peace and my mental health as an adult. 357 00:42:12,202.3119665 --> 00:42:19,72.3119665 and that's something that has, because it hasn't been present for a long, for many years in my young life. 358 00:42:19,492.3119665 --> 00:42:23,782.3119665 Um, I think it's really healing my inner child now to have that in practice. 359 00:42:23,827.3119665 --> 00:42:24,247.3119665 Mm-hmm. 360 00:42:25,342.3119665 --> 00:42:26,882.3119665 I'm struck by the resonance between. 361 00:42:28,57.3119665 --> 00:42:48,727.3119665 The process in the, in, in, in, in art and the process in, in psyche there, you know, how, how things are unfinished and in process, how, uh, one is expected to be a certain way, but also one is taken as one is right in, in, in those situations where someone would just purchase something in the way it was, even if as it was unfinished. 362 00:42:49,27.3119665 --> 00:42:53,617.3119665 Uh, a lot of really ripe similes there to, to, to, to look at. 363 00:42:54,667.3119665 --> 00:42:56,287.3119665 We haven't talked a lot about. 364 00:42:57,157.3119665 --> 00:43:00,577.3119665 An important influence for you, which is your Colombian roots. 365 00:43:00,967.3119665 --> 00:43:09,247.3119665 Uh, at the same time, we did talk a little bit earlier off the air about how often artists who come from marginalized communities are reduced to that. 366 00:43:09,877.3119665 --> 00:43:18,967.3119665 And I wonder how you hang in the middle there between an urge to connect with something that is truly a part of you and to not be reduced to that at the same time. 367 00:43:19,772.3119665 --> 00:43:20,182.3119665 Yeah. 368 00:43:20,752.3119665 --> 00:43:31,762.3119665 Um, I, I love this conversation so much because I think that a lot of especially that are emerging, to hear that because. 369 00:43:32,737.3119665 --> 00:43:46,507.3119665 We take it upon ourselves as being representatives for our communities take on so much labor for solving these problems and for for creating narratives and representation and. 370 00:43:47,287.3119665 --> 00:44:01,267.3119665 While that is important, and I love the opportunities in which I do that still, I think that when it can often become like this blanket over everything that you've ever done, and, um, people start to expect it from you. 371 00:44:01,987.3119665 --> 00:44:14,947.3119665 think that's where it becomes a, it, it can be a disservice to the artist to pigeonhole them essentially into this role of activist or, um. 372 00:44:15,712.3119665 --> 00:44:42,52.3119665 This kind of like champion or martyr where they can't express anything else but that identity and the pain that they've experienced or, um, I've, I've been very radical against it, and I think that's part of the reason why I leaned into abstract art so much because it is removed from the representational. 373 00:44:42,442.3119665 --> 00:44:56,962.3119665 So I think, um, one example that I had seen in the past is that like have seen other artists in similar positions only be asked to do portraits of people of color or portraits of their identifying the community that they, they identify with. 374 00:44:57,562.3119665 --> 00:45:02,392.3119665 Um, and that can become overdone. 375 00:45:02,542.3119665 --> 00:45:11,512.3119665 It can also, um, make us these two dimensional caricatures our communities rather than. 376 00:45:12,307.3119665 --> 00:45:25,117.3119665 Artists that are just, just as valuable as, Andy Warhol was and, or like, can take up as much space as any major artists. 377 00:45:25,117.3119665 --> 00:45:39,367.3119665 You know, I think that, um, it's a big reason why like Banksy, for example, stay anonymous and just like remove their identity altogether because I don't know what, you know. 378 00:45:40,417.3119665 --> 00:45:43,837.3119665 What I ident or what community Banksy identifies with. 379 00:45:43,987.3119665 --> 00:45:49,27.3119665 But that is also like a reason why they can just make whatever work they want. 380 00:45:49,987.3119665 --> 00:45:53,77.3119665 and no one's e there's not, especially for even being a woman. 381 00:45:53,107.3119665 --> 00:46:01,387.3119665 Like there's also, I have artist friends that will use monikers that don't, aren't like obvious about their gender. 382 00:46:01,537.3119665 --> 00:46:07,777.3119665 Um, and so that is a way to like around some barriers as well. 383 00:46:08,167.3119665 --> 00:46:09,577.3119665 Um, but. 384 00:46:10,807.3119665 --> 00:46:13,987.3119665 I think that these conversations still matter. 385 00:46:14,197.3119665 --> 00:46:29,257.3119665 I just think that they can exist in, in spaces like this, or within community conversation, um, in artist panels or just when we're connecting one-on-one with our collectors. 386 00:46:30,322.3119665 --> 00:46:37,672.3119665 live painting as like an actual, I think that it's too nuanced sometimes to only rely on the visual medium for it. 387 00:46:38,242.3119665 --> 00:46:52,162.3119665 And uh, that dimension and complexity comes from these conversations that just have the space for it then allow us to be free as artists and just paint for the joy of it sometimes. 388 00:46:54,112.3119665 --> 00:46:57,502.3119665 Artists being instead of being any which way, right. 389 00:46:57,502.3119665 --> 00:46:58,312.3119665 Any certain way. 390 00:46:58,992.3119665 --> 00:47:16,72.3119665 Yeah, I think the best work comes that way and innovation happens too, and it's inherently to the conversation of like what it means to be Latin immigrant or a Latin artist, especially in the United States right now. 391 00:47:16,72.3119665 --> 00:47:21,232.3119665 I think that, um, there has been an extra level of pressure. 392 00:47:22,12.3119665 --> 00:47:29,242.3119665 To say something and do something and um, and to put yourself on that front line. 393 00:47:30,232.3119665 --> 00:47:47,842.3119665 And I do think that that is percent every single person's responsibility, but I would love for it to become more the responsibility of the people who are in places of more privilege rather than continue to be on the shoulders of people who have been carrying it their whole lives. 394 00:47:49,97.3119665 --> 00:47:49,637.3119665 That's real. 395 00:47:50,272.3119665 --> 00:47:50,422.3119665 Yeah. 396 00:47:50,472.3119665 --> 00:47:52,477.3119665 I'm so thankful for this conversation. 397 00:47:52,477.3119665 --> 00:47:53,77.3119665 I agree that. 398 00:47:54,712.3119665 --> 00:47:57,232.3119665 Conversations like this one should be happening a little bit more. 399 00:47:57,292.3119665 --> 00:48:05,152.3119665 'cause there's a lot that's messed up in the, in the way that artists, um, objectified we could say in on, on the national scene and international too. 400 00:48:05,572.3119665 --> 00:48:07,762.3119665 I'm so thankful for, for this conversation. 401 00:48:07,762.3119665 --> 00:48:07,792.3119665 I. 402 00:48:16,402.2765797 --> 00:48:17,452.2765797 Thanks for being here. 403 00:48:18,22.2765797 --> 00:48:25,552.2765797 If this conversation resonated with you, consider reviewing therapy for the world or sharing the link with someone who might appreciate it. 404 00:48:26,212.2765797 --> 00:48:29,662.2765797 Until next time, speak with care and listen deeply.