Life, Loss, and Connection on a Seven-Year Walk Around the World

(from 2024) | Tom Turcich is a writer, speaker, and the 10th person ever to walk around the world. We discuss the lessons he learned from over seven years of walking, the challenges of reshaping one's life after a monumental endeavor, and how travel can expand one's worldview. Tom offers insights into his writing process, shares photography tips, and talks about his memoir and children's book.

 

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Music credits: “Limit 70,” licensed by Kevin MacLeod “Meditation” by Jules Massenet, from the Library of Congress Jukebox

Episode Transcript

(00:20):
in different climates is just how little anyone controls of their own life, even though it may seem otherwise. 5 00:00:29,74.999 --> 00:00:34,845 And it's, I think, important for people to feel that they control their own life.
.999And to a certain extent, you do, you can control your emotions to a certain extent. 7 00:00:39,954.999 --> 00:00:42,604.999 Uh, you can control your outlook to a certain extent. 8 00:00:43,74.999 --> 00:00:45,035 Uh, but there are just some forces.

(00:46):
forces are way bigger than us and so much bigger than us that we don't notice them.
And those are directing our lives much more than any sort of willpower or determination, I would say.
.999But that's not a depressing thought for you. 12 00:01:03,454.999 --> 00:01:22,165 No, uh, no, it's, I think in a certain way it's Um, because when you kind of, when you understand that you can kind of forgive yourself for a lot of things and you forgive.

(01:22):
Pretty much everyone of everything, because you realize that, uh, people are a product of their environment.
They're a product of their parents.
.999They're a product of the economic system, uh, that they're born into, the education that they were born into.
.999And there's so many just massive factors.
.9Uh, so it's kind of, it is kind of like a double edged sword.

(01:44):
Or, uh, it's two coins because sure.
.999It'd be great if really the world was a meritocracy and the smartest people rose to the top all the time.
that's not the case.
Um, and the difficult part is that, you know, there's just some, you go to some places and the people just don't have remotely the same opportunity as someone else, you know, as people who are just as well intentioned or maybe You know, worse intentions, less intelligent.

(02:20):
Um, and, uh, so it's, it can be difficult in a certain way.
.999It can be depressing, uh, because there's a lot of good people out there and bad systems are holding them back and greedy.
Autocrats are holding them back.
Bad politicians are holding them back.
.999Uh, maybe just misfortune and being born in a village in the mountains is, you know, and going to a small schoolhouse where you don't have the most opportunities is holding them back.

(02:47):
.9Um, but then again, like I said earlier, it's in, in a certain way, it's liberating because, uh, you learn to really see people as, you know, people.
.999This kind of product or as like this culmination of all these different things, and you don't see these one out, one off actions as these malicious or, or even. 29 00:03:15,245.1 --> 00:03:18,795 Like, you know, malevolent actions.

(03:18):
These are just result of a million different things coming into play.
.45299848So in a certain way, it's liberating. 32 00:03:33,355.97287909 --> 00:03:42,865.97287909 You're listening to Therapy for the World, an interview series with kind thought-provoking people working along the spectrum of self-care and world care. 33 00:03:43,555.97287909 --> 00:03:55,465.97287909 I'm Dan, a writing therapist and teacher, and this is my conversation with Tom Uch, a writer, speaker, adventurer, and the 10th person to have walked all around the world. 34 00:03:56,245.97287909 --> 00:04:02,635.97287909 We recorded this conversation in early 2024, so it's a bit outdated, but hopefully still fresh. 35 00:04:03,205.97287909 --> 00:04:03,955.97287909 Happy listening. 36 00:04:15,52.22596445 --> 00:04:26,152.22496445 The first side of that, to remember that folks are not necessarily, uh, reaching the limit of their potential, but rather the limit of their potential within the system that they're in, is a reassuring thought. 37 00:04:26,402.22596445 --> 00:04:36,732.22596445 The second one of those, that folks, uh, are, are mean spirited or malevolent because of the systems that they're in, is a harder one to come to. 38 00:04:36,832.22596445 --> 00:04:44,457.12596445 Uh, it's not a, it's not a, it's not an easy thought on the mind, if you will, right? We like to really cast blame on people. 39 00:04:44,977.22596445 --> 00:04:46,727.22596445 on folks who have done us wrong. 40 00:04:46,947.22596445 --> 00:04:48,477.22596445 You think people are good, though. 41 00:04:49,97.22596445 --> 00:04:54,837.17596445 You've written about this, that you've met some, you know, you had a couple strange encounters here and there, but 99. 42 00:04:54,837.17596445 --> 00:04:56,857.22596445 9 percent of people were good. 43 00:04:57,817.22596445 --> 00:04:59,217.22596445 Yeah, uh, definitely. 44 00:04:59,257.22496445 --> 00:05:00,597.22596445 I mean, walked around the world. 45 00:05:00,657.22596445 --> 00:05:04,447.22596445 Only had a few small, strange encounters. 46 00:05:04,697.22596445 --> 00:05:06,347.22496445 And of course, you can't be an idiot. 47 00:05:06,357.22496445 --> 00:05:14,932.22596445 You don't want to put yourself in Bad situations purposefully, a majority of the people are just, um, you know, are just living their day to day life. 48 00:05:15,772.22596445 --> 00:05:26,252.22596445 I think what gave me a lot of solace when I was walking around the world or kind of peace of mind, uh, was that, so like when I walked through El Salvador. 49 00:05:27,132.22596445 --> 00:05:32,492.22596445 It was, in hindsight, it was the most dangerous month of the most dangerous year of its history. 50 00:05:34,52.22596445 --> 00:05:45,82.22596445 I mean, legitimately just, you know, a dangerous place, but you're walking through there and there's people walking around everywhere and people are going to school and people are going to the market and people are living their daily lives. 51 00:05:45,412.22596445 --> 00:05:51,352.22596445 And you know, there's, there's certain bubbles and there's, I'm sure there's certain neighborhoods that are really caught up in things. 52 00:05:51,982.22596445 --> 00:05:54,32.22596445 And there's some people that are really caught up in things. 53 00:05:54,502.22496445 --> 00:06:08,97.22596445 But if you look like historically, The most violent month of the most violent year in El Salvador's history is about as violent as, um, like the average medieval city, they estimate. 54 00:06:08,377.22596445 --> 00:06:12,647.22496445 So like, oh, statistically, statistically it's, we live in a very safe time. 55 00:06:12,917.22496445 --> 00:06:16,307.22596445 And, um, so that's, you know, that's a lot of reassurance. 56 00:06:16,327.22596445 --> 00:06:18,17.22596445 And then I always just kept in my mind. 57 00:06:18,247.22596445 --> 00:06:20,47.22596445 So everywhere I went, that was somewhere new. 58 00:06:20,47.22596445 --> 00:06:23,937.22596445 I was like, well, I, it's my first time walking here, but other people walk here all the time. 59 00:06:24,782.22596445 --> 00:06:27,902.22596445 so I'm just walking in, you know, strangers, strangers, neighborhood. 60 00:06:28,627.22596445 --> 00:06:37,687.22596445 Yeah, uh, the place where you didn't feel like a stranger when you finally returned was the United States, and this is, you know, speeding up to the end of your trip. 61 00:06:37,947.22596445 --> 00:06:42,42.22596445 When you returned finally after Um, seven years walking in the world. 62 00:06:42,492.22596445 --> 00:06:47,772.22596445 Uh, the strangest thing about being back in the U in the US is the quiet confidence of belonging. 63 00:06:47,832.22596445 --> 00:06:59,232.22596445 I have you wrote, uh, there's, this is something I've missed for longer than I can express the feeling of being free and having a great weight removed from my back. 64 00:07:00,972.22596445 --> 00:07:09,332.22596445 Is that a, a feeling you're happy to be around now or do you have this desire to leave again? it's a little bit of both. 65 00:07:09,362.22596445 --> 00:07:18,912.22596445 I would say there's this great sense when you travel, when you're in a new place, this great feeling of progress, even when you're doing nothing, because everything is new. 66 00:07:19,782.22596445 --> 00:07:25,602.22596445 so you feel like this constant growth, I mean, just by going into a market and seeing. 67 00:07:26,37.22596445 --> 00:07:31,567.22596445 Things in a language you don't recognize and trying to interact in a new language or just in a new shop. 68 00:07:31,567.22596445 --> 00:07:33,207.22596445 Like that is an act of growth. 69 00:07:34,757.22596445 --> 00:07:39,937.22596445 so I got very accustomed to that as a feeling of progress. 70 00:07:39,987.22596445 --> 00:07:41,7.22496445 And I miss that. 71 00:07:41,107.22596445 --> 00:07:47,257.22596445 You sort of have this void without that and growth feels much more conscious than it used to. 72 00:07:47,917.22596445 --> 00:07:50,717.22596445 Uh, but, uh, I definitely. 73 00:07:51,652.22596445 --> 00:07:54,802.22596445 Don't miss just you always are. 74 00:07:55,52.22596445 --> 00:07:57,872.22596445 You always kind of have to be on your best behavior in a certain way. 75 00:07:57,882.22596445 --> 00:07:59,712.22596445 You're always a guest somewhere. 76 00:08:00,12.22596445 --> 00:08:07,382.22596445 And so you're on, you're just, you're always on your toes a little bit and you always have your guard up just a little bit because you don't want to offend anyone. 77 00:08:07,862.22696445 --> 00:08:08,462.22696445 And. 78 00:08:09,317.22596445 --> 00:08:12,657.22596445 And you want to get along with people and you want to understand their culture. 79 00:08:12,657.22596445 --> 00:08:15,927.22596445 So you just, you kind of have to tiptoe a little more than it would. 80 00:08:15,927.22596445 --> 00:08:28,107.22696445 And so when I came back to the U S and then it's like, know, this is my country and if I think a guy's being a jerk, I can tell him they're being a jerk because I know this is my country, you know, and I'm part of this culture. 81 00:08:28,562.22596445 --> 00:08:29,632.22596445 These are my jerks. 82 00:08:30,152.22596445 --> 00:08:30,992.22596445 Yeah, exactly. 83 00:08:32,322.22596445 --> 00:08:58,12.22496445 uh, whereas abroad I would never, I mean, very rarely would I do that unless it was blatant, um, but there's a sort of relief in, uh, there's a great relief in, in coming back and just, there's also, you know, when I'm, when I'm abroad and I was walking with a baby carriage and a dog and I'm like a tall gangly white guy and, you know, it's a lot of times I'm standing out like a sore thumb. 84 00:08:58,822.22596445 --> 00:08:59,542.22596445 And. 85 00:08:59,817.22596445 --> 00:09:05,517.22596445 When I got home, I still did in a certain way, but I just felt like, okay, I'm home now. 86 00:09:05,567.22596445 --> 00:09:07,537.22596445 And, and this is my country. 87 00:09:07,537.22596445 --> 00:09:10,547.22596445 And when I, and I kind of knew what I could get away with, what I couldn't get away with. 88 00:09:10,547.22596445 --> 00:09:12,147.22546445 That makes a big difference too. 89 00:09:12,147.22546445 --> 00:09:14,377.22596445 I knew where I could stop, where I couldn't stop. 90 00:09:14,377.22596445 --> 00:09:22,827.22596445 And, uh, so it was just a bunch of, there's a million little things that kind of go into just that relief of, of being home and that confidence that come with. 91 00:09:25,292.22596445 --> 00:09:31,12.22596445 You've been writing about this experience now and it's proved a difficult task. 92 00:09:31,482.22596445 --> 00:09:39,12.22596445 Uh, each spoken word was less like a trinket and more a refraction of the life that's passed through me. 93 00:09:39,572.22596445 --> 00:09:41,792.22596445 It was impossible to convey through words in the end. 94 00:09:41,802.22596445 --> 00:09:46,892.22596445 How are you managing that? You're working on a memoir now, uh, to be called The World Walk. 95 00:09:47,872.22596445 --> 00:09:48,272.22596445 Yeah. 96 00:09:48,332.22596445 --> 00:09:55,332.22496445 Um, the memoir, you know, I mean, this is just an act of writing, but like, uh, you know, I've been writing for years and years and years. 97 00:09:55,922.22496445 --> 00:09:59,237.22596445 And, um, We talked about it a little bit before the podcast. 98 00:09:59,297.22596445 --> 00:10:03,767.22596445 Uh, but in the end, all I'm trying to do is tell a good story. 99 00:10:03,797.22596445 --> 00:10:06,647.22596445 I'm just trying to tell the story and there's too many things. 100 00:10:06,677.22496445 --> 00:10:08,87.22546445 I experienced too many things. 101 00:10:08,87.22546445 --> 00:10:13,647.22496445 There's too many little details to express everything perfectly and to give people the world walk. 102 00:10:13,647.22496445 --> 00:10:14,657.22596445 It's just impossible. 103 00:10:14,767.22596445 --> 00:10:15,997.22496445 I mean, you had to have been there. 104 00:10:16,7.22496445 --> 00:10:17,297.22596445 You have to be either me or Savannah. 105 00:10:17,417.22596445 --> 00:10:18,157.22596445 That's the only way. 106 00:10:19,657.22596445 --> 00:10:26,787.22596445 um, so when I'm writing these places, I'm trying to There's when I'm writing these chapters and I'm writing about these places, I'm writing these stories. 107 00:10:27,797.22596445 --> 00:10:33,187.22596445 There's, of course, all these memories I have in my head and there's all these details in the journal that, oh man, this would be a great detail. 108 00:10:33,187.22596445 --> 00:10:36,627.22596445 And if someone saw this, it would like, for me, it's so poignant. 109 00:10:36,637.22596445 --> 00:10:40,47.22596445 Or maybe if they pass through there, this would really spark something for them. 110 00:10:40,817.22596445 --> 00:10:45,407.22596445 Or, you know, there's this interesting thing that happened, but it just doesn't fit into the story. 111 00:10:45,617.22596445 --> 00:10:48,897.22596445 So it's sort of an act of restraint in a certain way. 112 00:10:48,907.22596445 --> 00:11:04,47.22596445 It's just, I'm just going to tell, you know, this one story of growth, of going from this really naive suburban kid into someone who understands the world or has a better understanding of the world and of themselves. 113 00:11:04,57.22596445 --> 00:11:06,317.22596445 So I'm just going to tell that story and that's it. 114 00:11:07,77.22596445 --> 00:11:11,347.22596445 Um, but it's, it's, uh, the. 115 00:11:11,987.22596445 --> 00:11:26,207.22496445 That quote that you read first when I, when I came back and before I left, I thought I'd have, like I said, all these memories that you could pass out like trinkets, you know, that I could be a grandfather and, you know, give people these stories like hard candy or something. 116 00:11:27,272.22596445 --> 00:11:33,822.22596445 And when you get back, you realize that's just really not how it works. 117 00:11:33,822.22596445 --> 00:11:37,172.22596445 The memories are just for me, just for Savannah. 118 00:11:38,122.22596445 --> 00:12:04,522.22546445 what other people get is sort of like this, this, um, it's almost like, And I haven't thought of a good metaphor for it, but it maybe it's like making a stew or making a soup kind of thing and you get all these, all these memories, all these different ingredients and the other person only just gets, they get the, they get the full stew, they get the bite, but I go, Oh, no, I chopped this, this, this, this, this, and I know everything that went into this and they just get the, you know, the final product kind of thing. 119 00:12:04,522.22546445 --> 00:12:06,912.22596445 So you can't really share individual bits. 120 00:12:08,262.22596445 --> 00:12:12,392.22596445 you can only share holistically who you are and who you've become. 121 00:12:13,417.22596445 --> 00:12:14,857.22596445 I think you hit the right metaphor. 122 00:12:14,897.22596445 --> 00:12:20,617.22596445 Um, it's similar to, you know, a chef enjoying his food much more than his guest. 123 00:12:20,967.22596445 --> 00:12:28,957.22596445 But hey, restaurants are filled with, with guests who want a bite of this, of this delicious thing. 124 00:12:28,957.22596445 --> 00:12:31,287.22596445 And that's the sensation that folks have, you know. 125 00:12:31,597.22596445 --> 00:12:44,957.22596445 I, I happen to just wonder one day, has anyone ever walked around the world That was the inception of our being here today, you know? Aside from the fact that you happen to be one of those who did that. 126 00:12:46,107.22596445 --> 00:12:49,447.22596445 Nine others before you have tried this that we know of. 127 00:12:49,477.22596445 --> 00:12:53,937.22496445 Of course, humans have been walking the world for hundreds if not thousands of years. 128 00:12:55,287.22496445 --> 00:13:38,177.22596445 What do you have in common with those that came before? Uh, I think probably there's this desire, um, to be out there somewhere and, um, it's, it's sort of a hard thing to put your finger on, uh, but yeah, it's just this, this need to be somewhere else in a certain way and, um, or maybe just to, to go somewhere to, to discover something, but I would say, so you have that, that's part of it, but I think if anyone's walking around the world, anyone who, who has completed it, and there's a lot of people who start it and then, you know, get a couple of years in and don't do it and don't finish it. 129 00:13:38,607.22596445 --> 00:13:40,687.22596445 The rules are strict around it, too. 130 00:13:40,857.22596445 --> 00:13:42,127.22596445 You can't take breaks. 131 00:13:42,357.22596445 --> 00:13:46,77.22596445 It's not easy to meet the requirements of the Yeah. 132 00:13:46,557.22596445 --> 00:13:47,87.22546445 Yeah. 133 00:13:47,87.22546445 --> 00:13:58,487.22496445 I mean, you know, it's kind of, you know, when you see it kind of thing, I feel like, and, you know, it's, uh, yeah, you know, when you see it, uh, yeah, there's. 134 00:13:59,692.22596445 --> 00:14:00,842.22596445 You know, however you want to do it. 135 00:14:00,842.22596445 --> 00:14:07,82.22596445 But I think for the people who, who do it, and there's, there's like a Japanese guy, there's a Canadian guy who both walked for over a decade. 136 00:14:07,532.22596445 --> 00:14:24,452.22596445 And I think you really have, you really have to have this deep, deep, um, value base, or like almost like this fire in you says, like, I'm going to do this no matter what, like, in the sense of. 137 00:14:26,232.22596445 --> 00:15:02,162.22496445 Can't imagine yourself doing anything else because it gets really difficult out there and it gets there's points where it is not fun and in it's difficult and you're sore and you're in the rain where you're covered in flies where you're pushing up your thousandth mountain and you're just so sick of it and You're going to have points where you go, what am I doing out here? Uh, and if you have the, if you have that little part of your brain that says, well, you know, be nice to be by a fire and, you know, I'll just, you know, whatever, you know, uh, to go settle down somewhere it's over for you. 138 00:15:02,222.22496445 --> 00:15:03,962.22596445 And it's just not going to, it's just not going to happen. 139 00:15:03,962.22596445 --> 00:15:05,152.22496445 You, you can't have that. 140 00:15:05,542.22596445 --> 00:15:07,842.22596445 And so I think all of us, the 10 of us who did it. 141 00:15:08,102.22596445 --> 00:15:16,382.22596445 Kind of have this, um, know, uh, this, this part of them that couldn't, couldn't imagine doing anything else. 142 00:15:16,742.22596445 --> 00:15:20,282.22596445 And for them, this is the height of their, probably the height of their existence. 143 00:15:20,442.22596445 --> 00:15:24,702.22596445 And that's why people do it for, you know, years and years and years. 144 00:15:24,702.22596445 --> 00:15:28,542.22496445 And this is, um, you know, it's a big commitment and it's a tough thing. 145 00:15:30,372.22596445 --> 00:15:40,742.22596445 You alluded a little bit earlier to being this suburban kid who, you know, compared to the person you are now, knew a lot less about the world and its lessons. 146 00:15:41,202.22596445 --> 00:15:57,552.22596445 It's, there's a, there's a sense when one reads your writing, though, that the geography is important, but also not necessary towards the insights that you, that you reached, although an indispensable part in your unique, like, approach to these insights. 147 00:15:58,502.22596445 --> 00:16:05,752.22596445 There's an adage I heard a very long time ago, and I would like to know if you agree with it or not. 148 00:16:06,432.22496445 --> 00:16:14,532.22496445 You learn the most from either traveling the world and living in different places or staying put and watching the river go by. 149 00:16:16,932.22496445 --> 00:16:17,372.22496445 Yeah. 150 00:16:17,392.22496445 --> 00:16:29,322.22596445 I mean, there's, this is interesting because I, I kind of talk about this idea in, in the prologue to my book and There is, there's both. 151 00:16:29,352.22596445 --> 00:16:34,382.22596445 It's both there's two different, it's two different types of knowledge, two different types of wisdom. 152 00:16:35,262.22596445 --> 00:16:40,932.2259644 And there's the, there, there's no substitute for traveling. 153 00:16:41,62.2249644 --> 00:16:46,232.2259644 I, you, you have to just go, you have to go and you have to be made a fool. 154 00:16:46,252.2259644 --> 00:16:51,842.2259644 And you have to see that other options exist and that there's other ways to do things. 155 00:16:51,842.2259644 --> 00:16:52,902.2259644 You have to have that. 156 00:16:52,922.2259644 --> 00:16:59,887.2259644 If you What does that do to you? What does that do to you, that knowledge? It just, it gives you, it gives your brain options. 157 00:17:00,97.2259644 --> 00:17:02,237.2259644 It just, it gives you, Oh, okay. 158 00:17:02,267.2259644 --> 00:17:13,7.2259644 Like, whereas before, when you grow up, whenever you grow up, you take it as it is and you go, this is how it is, I guess, in Argentina, it's the Peronists, right? The Peronists have been in charge forever. 159 00:17:13,337.2249644 --> 00:17:16,287.2259644 And you go, well, you grow up and you go, man, this is what it is. 160 00:17:16,297.2259644 --> 00:17:19,447.2259644 There's, this is what, this is the plate of food that we have. 161 00:17:19,722.2259644 --> 00:17:20,832.2259644 This is the air I breathe. 162 00:17:21,592.2259644 --> 00:17:26,592.2259644 It's the air I breathe kind of thing, and you go somewhere else and you go, Oh, well, there's a different way to do this. 163 00:17:26,602.2259644 --> 00:17:27,752.2259644 It doesn't have to be this way. 164 00:17:27,992.2259644 --> 00:17:30,932.2259644 That's not saying the parents are good or bad, but it's just an example. 165 00:17:33,102.2259644 --> 00:17:39,112.2259644 But so, yeah, when you travel and you just see these different options, you're able to look at places. 166 00:17:41,622.2259644 --> 00:17:48,862.2259644 And then you start, like you look out the street and you go, well, you know, in Denmark, they, they, the wires don't hang. 167 00:17:49,32.2259644 --> 00:17:49,942.2259644 So that's an option. 168 00:17:50,352.2259644 --> 00:17:52,352.2259644 And, you know, here they pave the streets this way. 169 00:17:52,352.2259644 --> 00:17:53,52.2259644 So that's an option. 170 00:17:53,52.2259644 --> 00:17:58,942.2259644 And then, you know, in Argentina, they paint the curves like this, and this is an option or whatever it is, or the houses are designed like this. 171 00:17:58,942.2259644 --> 00:18:05,972.2259644 And, you do that enough times and it sort of expands you and your view in such a way. 172 00:18:06,72.2259644 --> 00:18:06,692.2259644 Um. 173 00:18:06,962.2259644 --> 00:18:25,152.2249644 That it's just, um, just, you see, you see that there's no, there's no perfect way to do anything or there's So how then do you choose, having seen all the options? It's much easier to just know one way, right? To decide, okay, well I have to paint my curb, guess this is how you do it. 174 00:18:25,452.2259644 --> 00:18:37,232.2259644 But now that I have, you know, a knowledge of all the different colors that I could paint in and shapes, is that not a, is that not sometimes a daunting thought? Oh yeah, no. 175 00:18:37,232.2259644 --> 00:18:50,522.2259644 I mean, I think if, if you want to be happy, it's probably better to just stay in town and, you know, stay with your friends and, and enjoy, you know, enjoy the ice cream you've eaten all your life and enjoy the food you've eaten all your life. 176 00:18:50,602.3259644 --> 00:18:56,982.2259644 Because once you go to Italy or Turkey or, you know, Mexico, wherever, and they have great food and then you have. 177 00:18:57,102.2259644 --> 00:19:02,892.1259644 Turkish food, or Mexican food, or Thai food, somewhere else, you go, this is trash, terrible, and you can't enjoy it. 178 00:19:02,892.2259644 --> 00:19:04,332.2259644 So it's really terrible in that way. 179 00:19:04,792.2259644 --> 00:19:16,582.2259644 Um, so yeah, no, it's, it's, um, but you do also what this does is it sort of, it's like acts as a funnel. 180 00:19:16,747.2259644 --> 00:19:19,797.2259644 Where you know these, these things are opinion. 181 00:19:19,797.2259644 --> 00:19:21,237.2259644 These things don't really matter. 182 00:19:21,467.2259644 --> 00:19:23,547.2259644 This is just how, okay, they dress differently. 183 00:19:23,557.2259644 --> 00:19:24,807.2259644 That doesn't actually matter. 184 00:19:24,997.2259644 --> 00:19:25,267.2259644 Okay. 185 00:19:25,267.2259644 --> 00:19:26,877.2249644 The foods a little, they prefer this. 186 00:19:26,907.2259644 --> 00:19:32,97.2259644 They prefer fermented stuff versus they, you know, they prefer olive oil versus they prefer butter, whatever. 187 00:19:32,337.2259644 --> 00:19:35,797.2249644 These things are all just like the top tier stuff that doesn't really matter. 188 00:19:35,797.2249644 --> 00:19:43,937.2259644 But then when you funnel down there, then you realize, okay, there are core, there are core elements to societies. 189 00:19:43,982.3259644 --> 00:19:55,192.2259644 a good life that actually do matter, you know, democracy over autocracy, like at its most fundamental, that is like, so critical to how well off people live. 190 00:19:55,932.2259644 --> 00:20:03,457.2259644 And so you kind of like, You can accept certain preferences and, you know, whatever in your life. 191 00:20:04,237.2259644 --> 00:20:06,917.2259644 we become very passionate about things that actually do matter. 192 00:20:06,997.2249644 --> 00:20:13,997.2259644 And, and it depends on your country, you know, in the U S I think people already know, it's like the gun violence here is stupid. 193 00:20:15,477.2259644 --> 00:20:19,697.2259644 and then actually like the, the road deaths are insanely high. 194 00:20:20,167.2259644 --> 00:20:27,557.2259644 And so there's some things here where it's like you travel, you travel, so you can come back and look at your own country and your own town. 195 00:20:27,962.2259644 --> 00:20:32,132.2259644 Through all these different lenses and go, what really matters here? Okay. 196 00:20:32,132.2259644 --> 00:20:39,542.2249644 Like maybe I don't like, like the local food that much, maybe there's better local foods, whatever, you know, that's for me to deal with. 197 00:20:39,962.2249644 --> 00:20:52,902.2259644 But the things that do matter this, this, this, and this, you know, I'm going to be very passionate about these things and I'm going to speak about them and hopefully there'll be some change and generally these are all like systematic things. 198 00:20:52,932.2259644 --> 00:20:55,442.2259644 It's, it's very, very rarely. 199 00:20:55,442.2259644 --> 00:20:57,282.2259644 I would say maybe never is like. 200 00:20:58,182.2259644 --> 00:21:00,502.2259644 Personal behavioral stuff between people. 201 00:21:00,802.2259644 --> 00:21:02,772.2259644 If it is, it's probably a systems problem. 202 00:21:04,572.2259644 --> 00:21:22,82.2259644 What systems or methods have you seen that you would hope could be incorporated in the United States? I mean, I would say like one of the, the, the thing that, that drives me crazy the most is just like the public transport here is, is horrendous and everything is based around the car. 203 00:21:22,502.2249644 --> 00:21:26,677.2259644 And, um, First of all, I mean, it's dangerous. 204 00:21:26,727.2259644 --> 00:21:28,27.2259644 I mean, it's bad for the environment. 205 00:21:28,27.2259644 --> 00:21:28,917.2259644 It's dangerous. 206 00:21:28,947.2259644 --> 00:21:31,497.2259644 There's a lot of, you know, automobile accidents. 207 00:21:31,497.2259644 --> 00:21:32,897.2259644 There's a lot of pedestrian deaths. 208 00:21:33,367.2259644 --> 00:21:47,327.2249644 Um, then it's also just regressive in the sense of if you have to have a car and you're buying it and you don't have that much money, you have to buy a junkie car and you're going to work some job that doesn't pay that much. 209 00:21:47,637.2259644 --> 00:21:48,627.2259644 But your car is breaking down. 210 00:21:48,627.2259644 --> 00:21:50,127.2259644 So then you have to pay more for that. 211 00:21:50,587.2259644 --> 00:21:56,237.2259644 It's just a really regressive system and it makes it difficult for people who aren't as well off to get ahead. 212 00:21:57,267.2259644 --> 00:21:58,597.2259644 so I think it's unfair. 213 00:21:59,97.2259644 --> 00:22:01,547.2249644 It's not environmentally friendly. 214 00:22:02,567.2259644 --> 00:22:13,237.2259644 um, it's, it's also like, uh, uh, it's kind of like we've been gaslit in a certain way where we. 215 00:22:13,617.2259644 --> 00:22:28,127.2259644 In the U S there's a lot of things that are like the product of really good marketing campaigns or marketing campaigns or buying up, you know, uh, the, the tram cars in California. 216 00:22:28,127.2259644 --> 00:22:36,447.2259644 And so then there's people had no option, but to drive and he gets so far along and you go, Hey, we're just, uh, this is just a, a car culture, baby. 217 00:22:36,737.2259644 --> 00:22:37,877.2259644 This is just how it is. 218 00:22:38,77.2259644 --> 00:22:38,447.2259644 You don't know. 219 00:22:38,457.2259644 --> 00:22:39,647.2259644 It wasn't always this way. 220 00:22:39,947.2259644 --> 00:22:43,667.2259644 Like, this is a product of a like corporations. 221 00:22:44,17.2259644 --> 00:22:46,987.2259644 Basically making this how this has to be. 222 00:22:48,297.2259644 --> 00:22:51,147.2259644 and so that's, you know, that's, that's a frustrating thing. 223 00:22:51,807.2259644 --> 00:22:59,737.2259644 Um, but you know, it's kind of like, it's, uh, America's deep in, America is deep in on that. 224 00:23:00,857.2259644 --> 00:23:07,327.2259644 Yeah, it's incredible how sometimes over our own lifetimes, advice changes, or marketing campaigns change. 225 00:23:07,327.2259644 --> 00:23:09,807.2259644 You know, milk is good versus milk is bad. 226 00:23:10,7.2259644 --> 00:23:20,697.2259644 How strong is the milk lobby one given year or another? Cars were also sold as the dream once, and unfortunately I think it's a public messaging campaign that remains strong in the States. 227 00:23:20,797.2259644 --> 00:23:26,527.2259644 And that threatens other nations infrastructure systems too, with the dream of, you know, car per person. 228 00:23:26,817.2259644 --> 00:23:38,167.2259644 Which is, as you say, Counterproductive towards so many other aims, like, like upward mobility, and environmental protection, and much more. 229 00:23:38,302.2259644 --> 00:23:53,622.2249644 like living in a nice environment, like the nicest, the, the, the places I enjoy the most are, I mean, no one's hanging out on the highway because you want to hang out at a cafe or somewhere where you can't hear any cars. 230 00:23:53,622.3249644 --> 00:23:55,972.2249644 I mean, if you just think about it, that most basic level. 231 00:23:56,312.2249644 --> 00:24:02,992.2259644 And I think, you know, go back to the walking, When that really changed for me was in Denmark and Copenhagen. 232 00:24:02,992.2259644 --> 00:24:15,742.2259644 I spent a week in Copenhagen with a friend there, and that was the first city I saw, know, this is just one small example of, you know, all the tiny little things all around the world of all these different types of lessons, but for the cars. 233 00:24:16,697.2259644 --> 00:24:26,277.2249644 I really came back to Copenhagen and seeing, oh, there's, don't have to be this, like, web of highways, basically, or five lane roads. 234 00:24:26,277.2259644 --> 00:24:29,257.2249644 They can be a one lane road or two lane road, and people can just bike everywhere. 235 00:24:29,257.2259644 --> 00:24:32,37.2259644 And if there's good biking infrastructure, people will actually do that. 236 00:24:32,407.2249644 --> 00:24:33,497.2249644 And it makes it really pleasant. 237 00:24:33,517.2259644 --> 00:24:44,472.2259644 You can feel safe with your kid, and you can sit outside, and it's quiet, and you can feel, like, this sense of community that you Lack in a lot of, um, in a lot of cities. 238 00:24:44,962.2259644 --> 00:24:53,252.2259644 Um, so yeah, that's just one, you know, one of the, um, one example of a lesson kind of that was taken away from, from traveling. 239 00:24:54,657.2259644 --> 00:24:56,817.2259644 Something you'd like to see incorporated? Sure. 240 00:24:57,927.2249644 --> 00:25:04,687.2259644 This is a darker topic, but also central to your, to your walk and your experience. 241 00:25:05,77.2259644 --> 00:25:13,962.2259644 You set off with questions and A certain sense of feeling unnerved by the prospect of death. 242 00:25:14,372.2259644 --> 00:25:16,372.2259644 Not unnerved, but also inspired by it. 243 00:25:16,382.2259644 --> 00:25:20,302.2249644 You know, to do stuff before that moment arrived. 244 00:25:20,952.2259644 --> 00:25:26,762.2259644 Has your relationship with that end changed over time? Yeah, it's definitely changed. 245 00:25:26,812.2259644 --> 00:25:40,917.2259644 Um, I would say, all right, so, A small example was I was, when I was walking and I would take these flights, uh, you know, wherever it was from, Panama to Columbia, you know, wherever. 246 00:25:41,937.2259644 --> 00:25:43,327.2259644 I was never afraid of flying. 247 00:25:43,397.2259644 --> 00:25:45,627.2259644 I never had any anxiety about it and get up there. 248 00:25:45,887.2259644 --> 00:25:46,417.2254644 I was loving it. 249 00:25:46,417.2254644 --> 00:25:48,917.2259644 And then for whatever reason, when I, when the walk stopped. 250 00:25:49,192.2259644 --> 00:25:50,132.2259644 And I would get on a plane. 251 00:25:50,162.2259644 --> 00:25:57,922.2259644 I was terrified for whatever reason, because it felt like I had unfinished business that that's something that I couldn't die yet. 252 00:25:57,932.2259644 --> 00:25:59,612.2259644 Because there's still I had to do more. 253 00:26:00,22.2249644 --> 00:26:03,112.2249644 Whereas when I was walking, I was already fulfilling my purpose. 254 00:26:03,532.2259644 --> 00:26:07,302.2249644 And so it was like, well, if I die, I'm already doing exactly what I meant to do. 255 00:26:07,312.2259644 --> 00:26:07,992.2249644 It doesn't matter. 256 00:26:08,732.2259644 --> 00:26:13,622.2259644 so there's definitely, um, when I was walking. 257 00:26:14,512.2259644 --> 00:26:16,642.2259644 I could have died at any moment and probably would have been fine. 258 00:26:16,702.2259644 --> 00:26:17,472.2259644 At least so I thought. 259 00:26:17,482.2259644 --> 00:26:21,352.2259644 But then when I got held up at gunpoint in Turkey and I was like, Oh man, I don't really want to die. 260 00:26:22,532.2259644 --> 00:26:30,322.2249644 Um, but the, you know, I don't know if the relationship like changes fundamentally, uh, with death. 261 00:26:30,352.2259644 --> 00:26:37,142.2259644 Um, it's just something you have to, something you have to accept and then, you know, hopefully spend your time. 262 00:26:37,967.2259644 --> 00:26:52,927.2249644 well as you can here and when it comes down to it, uh, it really comes down to, uh, knowing yourself, knowing what you value and then trying your best to live a life aligned with those values. 263 00:26:52,927.2259644 --> 00:27:04,927.2259644 I think that's the only way you can really go to sleep each night feel like, look, I mean, like it's over, you know, it's already over and it's all like life is a joke. 264 00:27:05,107.2259644 --> 00:27:12,257.2259644 You know, in a certain way where it's soon as you're born, you already lost the game. 265 00:27:12,377.2259644 --> 00:27:14,667.2259644 It's already, it's the, the contract's written. 266 00:27:15,7.2259644 --> 00:27:16,407.2249644 Your time's going to be up soon enough. 267 00:27:16,407.2259644 --> 00:27:18,27.2249644 And when it is, everything's gone with it. 268 00:27:18,807.2259644 --> 00:27:34,877.2259644 if you are not doing your damnedest to live a life, That aligns with what you want to do, then what are you doing here? You're, you're, you're just, you're just going to be caught into some river that, that takes you away and carries you. 269 00:27:35,317.2249644 --> 00:27:36,587.2259644 It's over no matter what. 270 00:27:37,687.2249644 --> 00:27:42,957.2259644 like get bruised, go get beat up, go force yourself to grow. 271 00:27:43,697.2254644 --> 00:27:46,147.2259644 know, it's just take a beating a little more. 272 00:27:46,147.2259644 --> 00:27:52,617.2259644 People are, I feel like are very afraid of getting beaten down, of being made a fool, of trying, of failing. 273 00:27:53,392.2259644 --> 00:27:54,382.2259644 But you already lost. 274 00:27:54,582.2259644 --> 00:27:55,662.2259644 You already lost. 275 00:27:55,672.2259644 --> 00:27:56,652.2259644 It's already over. 276 00:27:57,612.2249644 --> 00:28:00,62.2259644 People are small, though, to go back to the beginning. 277 00:28:00,62.2259644 --> 00:28:03,572.2259644 It's daunting to take a break from that. 278 00:28:04,2.2259644 --> 00:28:20,802.2249644 A life that's brought you relative success or at least survival, which is so hard to come by sometimes these days, uh, to, to, to go ahead and go get bruised or live out your dream this and this and, and all those desires that we might hold, uh, and yet we feel fragile. 279 00:28:20,842.2259644 --> 00:28:24,72.2259644 We feel as though there's no sense of success around the other side. 280 00:28:24,642.2259644 --> 00:28:25,82.2259644 Yeah. 281 00:28:25,152.2259644 --> 00:28:25,532.2259644 Yeah. 282 00:28:25,532.2259644 --> 00:28:30,902.2259644 And, and, you know, that's not to say, I mean, it, it is, you have to be smart. 283 00:28:31,282.2259644 --> 00:28:35,702.2259644 You know, you have, I mean, I worked, I worked for eight years before I started the World Walk. 284 00:28:35,942.2259644 --> 00:28:41,762.2259644 And so it was all like playing a board game or something, whereas you have to be strategic about things. 285 00:28:42,42.2259644 --> 00:28:53,737.2259644 But I think on a larger scale, if you're not, focused on going after, you know, something that you care about, something that you value and that, you know, you have this limited amount of time here. 286 00:28:53,767.2259644 --> 00:28:59,387.2259644 If you are not taking steps towards that, think life can be really difficult. 287 00:28:59,717.2259644 --> 00:29:13,957.2249644 I mean, I think it'd be more difficult than, you know, uh, and, and so when I say getting bruised or, or, or fail or whatever, I think it's actually, it's probably more painful, at least for me, it was, it would be more painful to live a life. 288 00:29:14,617.2259644 --> 00:29:16,407.2259644 That would be like throwing in the towel. 289 00:29:16,897.2259644 --> 00:29:22,817.2259644 I'm better to just relentlessly go after something and fail over and over and over and over again towards it. 290 00:29:22,987.2249644 --> 00:29:25,557.2259644 But at least it's in the direction that you feel like you want to go in. 291 00:29:26,867.2259644 --> 00:29:46,307.2259644 Yeah, there's a Spanish quip, or a piece of advice used to admonish folks sometimes, but in the most positive way, that says, Don't let death catch you doing X, right? That this or that that you might in any given day find yourself doing, and we all have those moments. 292 00:29:47,297.2259644 --> 00:29:55,677.2259644 When we're, you know, in a certain experience or feeling a certain emotion, and that simple reminder, Don't let death catch you. 293 00:29:56,407.2259644 --> 00:30:11,277.2249644 With X, doing X, feeling X, is a, is a nice little push to, to memento mori, to remember death, to remember that there's a different way that I could be going about this moment. 294 00:30:12,237.2259645 --> 00:30:13,347.2259645 that's I've never heard that. 295 00:30:13,427.2259645 --> 00:30:14,137.2259645 And that's good. 296 00:30:14,247.2259645 --> 00:30:16,287.2259645 Um, I agree. 297 00:30:16,397.2259645 --> 00:30:17,747.2259645 I, I definitely agree with that. 298 00:30:17,747.2259645 --> 00:30:27,237.2249645 I think a bigger struggle comes when, it is, uh, it's easy to say that in a certain way and say, Hey, look, you should be enjoying yourself. 299 00:30:27,257.2269645 --> 00:30:32,887.2259645 And you know, don't get caught doing this, but I think unless you have a direction that you're headed towards. 300 00:30:33,937.2259645 --> 00:30:36,347.2259645 It can be, it can be really difficult to have any focus. 301 00:30:36,387.2259645 --> 00:30:42,697.2259645 I mean, all right, so I like, you know, you spend hours on your phone scrolling each day, which is very easy. 302 00:30:42,727.2259645 --> 00:30:43,877.2249645 I mean, it's designed for it. 303 00:30:44,627.2259645 --> 00:30:46,747.2259645 designed to, you know, wrap us in. 304 00:30:47,437.2259645 --> 00:30:57,967.2249645 Um, but it gets even easier to do that when don't have some sort of direction where you can mentally think, okay, I'm working towards this. 305 00:30:58,387.2259645 --> 00:31:09,707.2259645 What are little things that I can do? And it's not like, this isn't like, this isn't like some checklists or this isn't like this, some, some macho thing where you have to be like, I'm getting there, I'm going to this no matter what I'm going to do. 306 00:31:09,997.2259645 --> 00:31:12,307.2259645 No, just like in my, in the back of my mind. 307 00:31:12,727.2259645 --> 00:31:16,997.2259645 My flag is set up on that mountain ahead, and today I have this day. 308 00:31:17,562.2259645 --> 00:31:23,462.2259645 And look, I'm just sitting around, you know, what are the things I can do to make me feel better? Okay. 309 00:31:23,462.2259645 --> 00:31:24,622.2259645 I'm going in that direction. 310 00:31:24,772.2259645 --> 00:31:25,32.2259645 All right. 311 00:31:25,32.2259645 --> 00:31:31,412.2259645 I'll do, I'll do a little writing today, or I'll watch a photography video instead of watching, instead of scrolling or something like that. 312 00:31:31,642.2249645 --> 00:31:33,132.2259645 So I think it really helps if you. 313 00:31:33,967.2259645 --> 00:31:47,447.2259645 If you decide who you are, if you really reflect on who you are, what you value, what you want out of your time here, and then imagine some sort of distant future of, this is the person I want to be, this is what I want to be doing. 314 00:31:48,397.2249645 --> 00:31:58,977.2259645 And not, you know, again, not as any like macho man thing, I'm going to become this, just as a way to organize your time, just a way to give you a measure of, of what you're going to do today. 315 00:32:00,217.2259644 --> 00:32:02,467.2259644 This was, uh, not simply a theory. 316 00:32:02,467.2259644 --> 00:32:04,37.2259644 This was put into practice by you. 317 00:32:04,47.2259644 --> 00:32:15,147.2259644 When you were on your walk, you would record videos, small clips, standing at the top of a mountain and indicating, this is where I started today, and this is where I am now. 318 00:32:15,447.2259644 --> 00:32:23,497.2259644 These were long stretches, not, not even a fraction of the distance of the world, but an important segment for that day. 319 00:32:23,777.2259644 --> 00:32:33,402.2259645 How, how, how did that work? How did this, uh, strategy keep you motivated? Yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe it's like, maybe it's in hindsight that I got this strategy. 320 00:32:33,772.2259645 --> 00:32:41,712.2259645 Um, but I mean, when you break it up and you know, walk around the world, it's just a bunch of single days and just moving forward. 321 00:32:42,142.2249645 --> 00:32:44,792.2249645 Um, you know, 24 miles, 20 miles. 322 00:32:45,142.2249645 --> 00:32:47,222.2254645 And I just felt that satisfaction. 323 00:32:47,222.2254645 --> 00:32:59,612.2259645 I mean, you know, no matter how difficult a day was, I, I always went to bed satisfied because I moved the ball forward that little bit and that like gave me a lot of relief and go, all right, you did your best day. 324 00:32:59,612.2259645 --> 00:33:00,952.2259645 Like, it was a bad day. 325 00:33:01,352.2249645 --> 00:33:10,892.2249645 It rained all day or it was cold or it was windy you met a, you know, you just had some unfriendly encounters, but you're sleeping now. 326 00:33:11,2.2249645 --> 00:33:11,782.2249645 You're laying in bed now. 327 00:33:12,432.2259645 --> 00:33:13,982.2259645 you're going to get up and you're going to do it again tomorrow. 328 00:33:13,982.2259645 --> 00:33:15,812.2259645 And maybe tomorrow will be something interesting. 329 00:33:16,212.2259645 --> 00:33:19,42.2259645 And so it just brought a lot of, uh, a lot of satisfaction. 330 00:33:19,462.2259645 --> 00:33:32,652.2259645 And so I think maybe I adopted that into, you know, in hindsight into, this is something valuable where if you can just move the ball forward just a little bit in, in, in some small way, I think you go to sleep a little bit easier each night. 331 00:33:33,2.2259645 --> 00:33:40,512.2259645 And, and, you know, and over time, you know, in the whole of your life, You know, effectively, quote unquote, you walked around the world or, you know, you did your walk. 332 00:33:43,172.2259644 --> 00:33:44,352.2259644 That's really nicely put. 333 00:33:44,912.2259644 --> 00:33:49,372.2259644 You, uh, encourage flexibility, though, in the setting of these goals. 334 00:33:49,382.2259644 --> 00:33:51,582.2259644 Without it, it becomes a demand. 335 00:33:51,762.2259644 --> 00:33:54,962.2259644 You've spoken of being so led by desire. 336 00:33:57,302.2259645 --> 00:33:57,682.2259645 Yeah. 337 00:33:57,702.2259645 --> 00:34:02,812.2259645 I mean, there's, I mean, again, I think it comes back to just like what you value. 338 00:34:02,822.2259645 --> 00:34:07,702.2259645 You really have to, you really have to reflect on what you want out of your limited time here. 339 00:34:07,702.2259645 --> 00:34:13,232.2249645 And then you don't have to, you know, fit in perfectly like this. 340 00:34:14,647.2259645 --> 00:34:16,507.2259645 You and you have to, you have to know what you're good at. 341 00:34:16,507.2259645 --> 00:34:20,257.2259645 You have to, you know, there's all, there's all these different factors in play. 342 00:34:20,647.2259645 --> 00:34:24,657.2259645 Um, but you don't wanna be so set on like one, you know, thing. 343 00:34:24,657.2259645 --> 00:34:27,477.2259645 Like, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be a movie star, or whatever it is. 344 00:34:27,627.2259645 --> 00:34:29,577.2259645 So, no, you don't value being a movie star. 345 00:34:29,577.2259645 --> 00:34:31,827.2259645 What do you value? You value, okay. 346 00:34:33,27.2259645 --> 00:34:34,407.2259645 you wanna, you wanna make money. 347 00:34:34,707.2259645 --> 00:34:35,427.2259645 Okay, that's fine. 348 00:34:35,427.2259645 --> 00:34:41,397.2259645 If you wanna make money, why do you wanna make money? You wanna make money so you can have a nice house and. 349 00:34:41,842.2259645 --> 00:34:53,442.2249645 Maybe it'll get you a beautiful wife or maybe, you know, what are the things below that? What are really the things that matter? And so for me, when I really reflect on this, it was like, if I had all this money, what would I do? I would travel. 350 00:34:53,722.2259645 --> 00:34:54,672.2259645 I would go to the museums. 351 00:34:54,672.2259645 --> 00:34:55,802.2259645 I do all these different things. 352 00:34:55,852.2259645 --> 00:34:56,92.2259645 Okay. 353 00:34:56,92.2259645 --> 00:34:59,222.2259645 What's below that? It was, I want to travel. 354 00:34:59,482.2259645 --> 00:35:00,672.2259645 Just to see new things. 355 00:35:00,672.2259645 --> 00:35:02,782.2259645 I wanted to be, I wanted to grow. 356 00:35:02,792.2259645 --> 00:35:05,702.2259645 I wanted to be forced into adventure because I wanted to grow. 357 00:35:05,732.2259645 --> 00:35:06,672.2259645 I was introverted. 358 00:35:06,722.2259645 --> 00:35:07,512.2259645 I was timid. 359 00:35:08,412.2254645 --> 00:35:09,792.2259645 to be pushed out of my comfort zone. 360 00:35:09,822.2259645 --> 00:35:10,712.2259645 So I grew. 361 00:35:11,42.2259645 --> 00:35:12,62.2249645 So I valued that. 362 00:35:12,72.2249645 --> 00:35:12,832.2259645 I wanted to grow. 363 00:35:12,872.2259645 --> 00:35:14,342.2259645 I wanted to see what I could become. 364 00:35:15,47.2259645 --> 00:35:17,307.2259645 then I wanted to understand the world because the world is interesting. 365 00:35:17,697.2259645 --> 00:35:24,177.2259645 And so those were the three things that I valued at the core of who I was beyond, you know, Hey, I want to be famous. 366 00:35:24,207.2249645 --> 00:35:26,367.2254645 I want to, you know, I want to make a ton of money. 367 00:35:26,367.2254645 --> 00:35:27,17.2259645 I want to do this. 368 00:35:27,847.2259645 --> 00:35:32,137.2249645 Those are just like means to an end, the things at the bottom that I valued. 369 00:35:32,467.2259645 --> 00:35:33,632.1259645 And then I thought about those. 370 00:35:34,282.2259645 --> 00:35:43,752.2259645 And then I searched what aligns, what is a life that aligns with those values? And for me, if it was the world walk, that's what aligns with those values. 371 00:35:43,822.2259645 --> 00:35:51,322.2259644 And also I was broke, you know, I, I, I might've taken a, you know, I might've taken a different method of travel A cruise ship. 372 00:35:51,662.2259645 --> 00:35:52,272.2259645 But I didn't. 373 00:35:52,322.2259645 --> 00:35:53,372.2259645 That's the one that fit. 374 00:35:53,662.2259645 --> 00:35:54,712.2259645 That was the merging. 375 00:35:54,872.2259645 --> 00:35:57,852.2259644 That was the merging of my values and And your budget. 376 00:35:59,262.2259645 --> 00:36:00,82.2259645 Yeah, exactly. 377 00:36:00,957.2259644 --> 00:36:07,907.2259644 I appreciate that those goals that you mentioned are inherent to the process and not to the outcome. 378 00:36:08,187.2259644 --> 00:36:17,267.2249644 You could have not finished, and in fact you write towards the end of your journey, I don't care, you know? There's not a sense of needing to accomplish this either. 379 00:36:17,267.2259644 --> 00:36:18,377.1259644 It's become very clear. 380 00:36:18,707.2259644 --> 00:36:36,647.2259644 Part of the process that is that is enjoyable for you And and something that's been then after you have a beautiful blog called upon re entry Where you document this experience of returning you've you've You've said it's not been something entirely easy. 381 00:36:36,857.2259644 --> 00:36:45,982.2259645 What what is that process now? After two years of being back Yeah, it's, it's gotten easier. 382 00:36:46,72.2259645 --> 00:36:50,912.2259645 Uh, but I'll say the first year of being back was really, really challenged. 383 00:36:50,982.2249645 --> 00:36:51,862.2259645 I mean, in. 384 00:36:52,767.3259645 --> 00:36:55,537.2259645 the beginning, it was just a challenge because I was so restless. 385 00:36:55,537.2259645 --> 00:37:00,357.2259645 I didn't know what to do with myself if I wasn't walking every day, if I wasn't totally exhausted. 386 00:37:01,67.2259645 --> 00:37:06,747.2249645 And when we first got back, Savannah and I were still walking like four hours a day, just cause I didn't know what else to do with myself. 387 00:37:07,577.2249645 --> 00:37:12,317.2249645 And then when I kind of slowed that down and I started trying to write this memoir, I couldn't focus. 388 00:37:12,357.2249645 --> 00:37:13,557.2249645 I couldn't sit at a desk. 389 00:37:14,457.2259645 --> 00:37:16,207.2259645 For any amount of time, really. 390 00:37:16,607.2259645 --> 00:37:17,767.2259645 And so that was driving me crazy. 391 00:37:17,767.2259645 --> 00:37:23,747.2259645 Cause like, I have to be doing this thing, but I just can't, like, I just like, I just didn't have that muscle build up. 392 00:37:24,747.2259645 --> 00:37:33,177.2259645 And then I was, I was like in, I, I fell in pride to the, like the only depression I've ever fallen to in, in my life. 393 00:37:33,247.2249645 --> 00:37:34,527.1259645 And it was. 394 00:37:34,997.2259645 --> 00:38:02,37.2259645 When I was out in Seattle with my girlfriend, um, she's finishing med school I would, we're in this apartment and I just didn't know what to do with myself because for such a long time, when you're walking, just the act of walking, you have the world coming at you, you're discovering new places, you're trying new foods, you're meeting new you're having new conversations, you're maybe working out a new language. 395 00:38:02,477.2259645 --> 00:38:03,577.2259645 You're thinking new thoughts. 396 00:38:03,597.2259645 --> 00:38:07,137.2259645 There's all this growth happening, just inherent through walking. 397 00:38:07,507.2259645 --> 00:38:08,927.2259645 And then all of a sudden I'm in the city. 398 00:38:09,217.2259645 --> 00:38:18,67.2249645 I'm like, why isn't life coming at me anymore? Like, so I had to, you know, realize like, I know you have to go out there and do these things now. 399 00:38:18,77.2259645 --> 00:38:21,907.1259645 Like the, before what I was doing was the walking and then. 400 00:38:22,87.2259645 --> 00:38:30,357.2259645 When that stopped, I was going, well, you know, why am I not meeting people? Why is, you know, why are these things not happening to me? And so that was a really, really a challenge. 401 00:38:30,407.2259645 --> 00:38:40,257.2259645 And then, and once I resolved that, uh, then the challenge was just like accepting you are in, that I'm going to be in one place. 402 00:38:40,842.2259645 --> 00:39:03,122.2259645 You know, made sort of doubly difficult by, um, being in the U S but not being with my family and friends in Philadelphia, in New Jersey, you know, and choosing this life with this woman that I love being okay with going, okay, this is where this is where I am right now. 403 00:39:03,262.2259645 --> 00:39:10,362.2249645 And, and, you know, it's a difficult thing after, after being so many places and seeing all these places and knowing there are better places. 404 00:39:10,707.2259645 --> 00:39:17,717.2259645 Just there are, there are better places out there, but this is your, you have one life and you know, this is what I'm choosing. 405 00:39:17,717.2259645 --> 00:39:30,892.2259644 And so it took a while to sort of just accept that, um, I'm just going to be in one place for a while and maybe forever, who knows? Choosing a place is a difficult thing for a lot of folks. 406 00:39:31,862.2259644 --> 00:39:35,192.2259644 It also does something to the place itself. 407 00:39:35,262.2259644 --> 00:39:40,872.2259644 But it benefits from people who are there over long stretches of time, just as it benefits from people who are passing through. 408 00:39:41,912.2249644 --> 00:39:46,232.2259644 What you hope to do for a city that you live in, whether it's this one or another one in the future. 409 00:39:48,277.2259645 --> 00:39:57,37.2259645 Um, I mean, hope to be a good citizen, uh, hope to slow some cars down, hope to get some bike lanes at it, uh, just make it more pedestrian friendly. 410 00:39:58,477.2259645 --> 00:40:06,72.2259645 yeah, I mean really just, uh, just try and just try and make some, um, Some nice places, you know, enjoyable places to be. 411 00:40:06,162.2259645 --> 00:40:07,702.2259645 Uh, that's, uh, that's it. 412 00:40:08,572.2259644 --> 00:40:10,812.2259644 Yeah, bike lanes is very manageable. 413 00:40:11,742.2259644 --> 00:40:12,202.2259644 Totally. 414 00:40:12,342.2259645 --> 00:40:12,362.2259645 Yeah. 415 00:40:12,652.2259645 --> 00:40:13,32.2259645 Yeah. 416 00:40:13,782.2259645 --> 00:40:14,152.2259645 Yeah. 417 00:40:14,937.2259644 --> 00:40:22,697.2259644 Tom, one of the two, um, one of the two mechanisms that you used to bring your experience to others was photography. 418 00:40:23,37.2259644 --> 00:40:29,937.2259644 You have some really stunning photos of, a lot of them featuring your dog Savannah, but then also landscapes and people. 419 00:40:29,947.2249644 --> 00:40:32,727.2259644 A lot of them featuring their eyes, too. 420 00:40:32,807.2259644 --> 00:40:42,32.2259645 What are some of the tips that you have used to take such cool pictures? I was, I mean, it was really just a lot of practice. 421 00:40:42,52.2259645 --> 00:40:46,872.2259645 Cause if you go way back, you can see my photography was not good at the beginning at all. 422 00:40:48,132.2259645 --> 00:40:49,722.2269645 so really just a lot of practice. 423 00:40:49,862.2249645 --> 00:40:51,322.2249645 Um, and then. 424 00:40:53,37.2259645 --> 00:41:09,107.2259645 I kind of learned at a certain point, I had the fundamentals figured out and then I could photograph anything and for a while in South America, actually, I remember, you know, thinking, okay, I'm going to be like an Instagrammer and in my mind, that's like what a good photographer was, was an Instagrammer. 425 00:41:10,167.2249645 --> 00:41:15,957.2259645 And this is earlier in the earlier days of when it wasn't reels and it was a lot of. 426 00:41:16,382.2259645 --> 00:41:17,642.2259645 Like German roamers. 427 00:41:17,642.2259645 --> 00:41:21,382.2259645 And so it was a lot of mountain peaks and these like dramatic photos. 428 00:41:21,642.2259645 --> 00:41:25,322.2259645 And I just couldn't take those because I wasn't on a mountain all the time. 429 00:41:25,362.2259645 --> 00:41:27,912.2259645 A lot of time I was just going through some modest village. 430 00:41:28,752.2259645 --> 00:41:32,552.2259645 so what my goal became was like, I'm just going to try and take one beautiful photograph a day. 431 00:41:32,742.2249645 --> 00:41:36,92.2259645 And, and then going through all these different places. 432 00:41:36,122.2259645 --> 00:41:38,2.2259645 Sometimes that was a person. 433 00:41:38,302.2259645 --> 00:41:39,432.2259645 Sometimes it was a house. 434 00:41:39,442.2259645 --> 00:41:42,502.2259645 Sometimes it was a landscape, could have been anything. 435 00:41:42,502.2259645 --> 00:41:52,612.2259645 And then, so I just practiced taking, just trying to do that for such a long time, trying to take one beautiful photo a day that you get good at, you know, photographing a little bit of everything. 436 00:41:53,42.2249645 --> 00:42:00,742.2249645 Um, as far as tips would go, uh, the rule of thirds, if you know anything about photography, rule of thirds, very valid. 437 00:42:01,392.2249645 --> 00:42:05,92.2249645 Um, I would also say you really, mid ground. 438 00:42:05,302.3259645 --> 00:42:08,212.2259645 Uh, foreground, midground, background. 439 00:42:08,322.2259645 --> 00:42:09,642.2259645 Like people don't do that enough. 440 00:42:09,672.2259645 --> 00:42:12,672.2259645 They, they try, they weight their composition too much. 441 00:42:13,342.2259645 --> 00:42:20,122.2249645 Uh, maybe with the mid ground and they forget about background, but you want something interesting at every layer. 442 00:42:20,212.2249645 --> 00:42:32,942.2259645 And if you can do that and you can, if you can put something interesting at every layer, it gives the photo a lot of depth um, it just makes it much more engaging and then I would say put people in the photograph. 443 00:42:32,992.2259645 --> 00:42:35,372.2259645 Uh, people are the most interesting things to people. 444 00:42:35,602.2259645 --> 00:42:42,592.2259645 Um, It's easier to photograph landscapes and, and architecture, uh, but it's boring. 445 00:42:44,357.2259644 --> 00:42:50,612.2259645 People or dogs? Uh, I probably the internet would argue dogs. 446 00:42:51,437.2259644 --> 00:42:53,167.2259644 Yeah, I think I would agree. 447 00:42:53,817.2259644 --> 00:43:08,937.2259644 What happens on days that are a little bit more uninspiring or don't, don't, you know, beg for a picture? Uh, when I was out walking, you mean? Sure, yeah, you know this challenge to take a picture a day. 448 00:43:09,862.2259645 --> 00:43:10,312.2259645 Oh yeah. 449 00:43:10,427.2249644 --> 00:43:16,922.2259645 Is, were there days where it was? That's when I, that's when I would photograph Savannah and it evened it out. 450 00:43:18,197.2259644 --> 00:43:20,867.2259644 Sure, yeah, she would, she would offer herself as the model. 451 00:43:21,387.2259644 --> 00:43:22,177.2259644 I appreciate that. 452 00:43:23,507.2259644 --> 00:43:33,522.2259644 I'd like you to read for us a bit of your writing just to, you know, I hear the rhythm also of what you write, which is not, which is not simply just an account of what you've done. 453 00:43:33,522.2259644 --> 00:43:37,732.2259644 It's not enough to write a memoir about, you know, pitching up a tent every night. 454 00:43:37,742.2259644 --> 00:43:44,392.2249644 It's also just the moments that you choose to, to share with folks from the experience. 455 00:43:44,952.2269644 --> 00:43:50,402.2259645 Would you read for us a little bit from one of your posts? sure. 456 00:43:50,452.2259645 --> 00:43:53,922.2259645 Do you remember what, what day this was? Do you, do you have this? I, you haven't put it right now. 457 00:43:53,922.3259645 --> 00:44:02,652.2259644 Do you know what day it was that I wrote this? I'm almost certain that it was on your last stretch, it was either right before you came to the United States or when you were already here. 458 00:44:03,922.2259645 --> 00:44:04,322.2259645 Okay. 459 00:44:04,402.2259645 --> 00:44:04,802.2259645 Yeah. 460 00:44:05,492.2259645 --> 00:44:05,692.2259645 right. 461 00:44:05,782.2259645 --> 00:44:06,242.2259645 Oh yeah. 462 00:44:06,292.2259645 --> 00:44:08,862.2259645 I guess it was, it seems like it was in the American West. 463 00:44:09,292.2259645 --> 00:44:09,682.2259645 Okay. 464 00:44:09,812.2259645 --> 00:44:10,832.2259645 I'll read it now. 465 00:44:10,882.2249645 --> 00:44:13,512.2259645 It is, You are a grain of salt in a river. 466 00:44:13,957.2259645 --> 00:44:20,157.2259645 Soon you will dissolve into the universe and a moment later the memories of you will be dissolved as well. 467 00:44:20,557.2259645 --> 00:44:23,7.2259645 Time will roll on and you will have never been. 468 00:44:23,867.2259645 --> 00:44:37,827.2259645 then are you afraid to live? Do you not understand that you are here for only a moment? Is it the pain, is it the fear of pain that constrains you? Or do you fear failure? Perhaps it's death you fear, but all these are inevitable. 469 00:44:38,7.2259645 --> 00:44:41,907.2259645 Just as you cannot avoid death, nor can you avoid failure or pain. 470 00:44:42,147.2259645 --> 00:44:43,257.2259645 They are part of the river. 471 00:44:43,617.2259645 --> 00:44:44,647.2259645 You will understand this. 472 00:44:46,167.2259645 --> 00:44:49,877.2259645 When you understand this, is when you will be liberated. 473 00:44:50,247.2259645 --> 00:44:54,227.2259645 Rather than avoiding what you fear, you will charge towards what you love. 474 00:44:54,477.2259645 --> 00:44:59,387.2249645 Still you will fail, and soon you will die, but you will have lived a life true to yourself. 475 00:44:59,427.2249645 --> 00:45:01,187.2259645 And in the end, that will have been enough. 476 00:45:06,242.2259644 --> 00:45:06,892.2259644 Thank you. 477 00:45:08,197.2259645 --> 00:45:08,877.2259645 You're welcome. 478 00:45:08,907.2259645 --> 00:45:18,402.2249644 Yeah, You brought folks along on the journey, it wasn't simply an experience that you went about and didn't post about. 479 00:45:18,752.2259644 --> 00:45:26,967.1259644 It was important to maintain this community and there's the sense, the sense in that community that it's been, you know, kept together and maintained throughout the years. 480 00:45:27,697.2259644 --> 00:45:41,887.2259645 Throughout countries and miles and years, why was it important for you to also share with others what you were going through? I mean, you know, I'm not much of Uh, social media user. 481 00:45:41,887.2259645 --> 00:45:43,617.2259645 It really does not come natural to me. 482 00:45:43,707.2259645 --> 00:45:45,827.2259645 I would love to delete everything right now. 483 00:45:46,87.2259645 --> 00:45:49,337.2259645 Um, I would delete it in a second if I could. 484 00:45:49,427.2259645 --> 00:45:51,657.2259645 And before the walk, I didn't have any social media. 485 00:45:53,367.2259645 --> 00:46:05,567.2259645 So I think once I started posting, um, it's probably good to be a reluctant user because then I just wanted it to be pure. 486 00:46:06,527.2259645 --> 00:46:14,717.2254645 and also I always had this with the that, uh, it was already enough. 487 00:46:14,717.2254645 --> 00:46:14,777.2249645 Yeah. 488 00:46:15,147.2259645 --> 00:46:22,307.2259645 You know, I remember when Philadelphia signed, um, my sponsor, when they asked how much it would cost a year, it's like, I could have told him any number. 489 00:46:22,947.2259645 --> 00:46:27,302.1259645 And I told him, I was like, I think I can get away with it at like 14, 000. 490 00:46:27,592.2259645 --> 00:46:49,992.2259645 You know, and that was like me thinking that's what I was, or that's what I had saved basically, or like, you know, for two years, it was like, I could, I think I can get away with this with the occasional hotel living off of rice and beans and, and, you know, uh, peanut butter, jelly and whatever else, you know, I could have told them any number, but it was like, if this, if they're willing to pay for my dream, that's enough. 491 00:46:50,32.2259645 --> 00:46:51,662.2259645 And so I think I had the same thing with. 492 00:46:52,842.2259645 --> 00:46:56,762.2259645 Social media, where I was never trying to make it anything. 493 00:46:56,762.2259645 --> 00:47:05,912.2259645 I wasn't really trying to become, you know, bigger, more famous to make money off of it. 494 00:47:07,77.2259645 --> 00:47:10,357.2259645 It was just, the act itself was enough. 495 00:47:10,547.2259645 --> 00:47:13,87.2259645 And so I was just trying to share exactly what it was. 496 00:47:13,617.2259645 --> 00:47:16,227.2259645 And, um, and trying to keep that pure. 497 00:47:16,257.2259645 --> 00:47:17,807.2259645 And I think that resonated. 498 00:47:17,847.2259645 --> 00:47:19,297.2259645 I think it gets through. 499 00:47:19,337.2259645 --> 00:47:20,317.2259645 It gets through to people. 500 00:47:21,477.2259644 --> 00:47:40,187.2259644 It was the intended use of social media, to mimic something that we would do in normal life, just sharing images, thoughts, ideas, and it's It was Facebook in its early days, right? What's on your mind? And folks would just say, Hanging out with Bill! You know? But now it's Now there's a different, an added layer to it, for sure. 501 00:47:41,867.2259645 --> 00:47:42,437.2259645 Yeah. 502 00:47:42,567.2249645 --> 00:47:42,897.2249645 Yeah. 503 00:47:42,897.2249645 --> 00:47:46,222.2259645 It's, uh, I would love to delete it all. 504 00:47:48,482.2259644 --> 00:47:49,392.2259644 Nothing's stopping you. 505 00:47:49,702.2259644 --> 00:47:58,722.2259645 Tom, is there anything I haven't asked you? Anything else that you'd like to say? No, um, got the memoir coming out in September. 506 00:47:58,902.2259645 --> 00:48:01,752.2259645 Um, going back and forth with the editor right now. 507 00:48:01,752.2259645 --> 00:48:08,982.2259645 So in a couple of months, or maybe when you hear this, there's already a pre order button, you can, uh, go to my website, Tom Tursage. 508 00:48:09,217.2259645 --> 00:48:12,587.2259645 T U R C I C H dot com, or the World Walk. 509 00:48:12,607.2259645 --> 00:48:13,707.2259645 Just look up the World Walk. 510 00:48:13,707.2259645 --> 00:48:14,407.2259645 It'll be there. 511 00:48:15,157.2259645 --> 00:48:16,977.2259645 And uh, hit that pre order button. 512 00:48:17,47.2259645 --> 00:48:21,167.2259645 Uh, but yeah, looking forward to getting the memoir out there and, you know, trying to give you a trinket. 513 00:48:21,597.2249645 --> 00:48:23,357.2259645 It's gonna fail, but that's alright. 514 00:48:24,82.2259644 --> 00:48:24,812.2249644 I appreciate that. 515 00:48:24,832.2259644 --> 00:48:26,412.2249644 And there's already one other book out. 516 00:48:26,652.2259644 --> 00:48:29,432.2249644 Savannah's World of Adventure Crossing the Andes. 517 00:48:29,442.2259644 --> 00:48:32,782.2259644 It's a different audience, but I think enjoyable by all. 518 00:48:32,792.2259644 --> 00:48:36,262.2259644 It's a children's book with a lot of beautiful illustrations in it. 519 00:48:36,387.2259645 --> 00:48:36,547.2259645 that. 520 00:48:37,512.2259645 --> 00:48:38,572.2259645 Yeah, I love the book. 521 00:48:38,632.2259645 --> 00:48:42,462.2259645 Um, that's a, the children's book my mom and I, my mom's professional illustrator. 522 00:48:42,462.2259645 --> 00:48:43,502.2259645 So she illustrated it. 523 00:48:43,532.2259645 --> 00:48:44,202.2259645 I wrote it. 524 00:48:44,682.2259645 --> 00:48:46,872.2259645 Uh, we're working on the second one right now. 525 00:48:47,192.2259645 --> 00:48:49,842.2259645 Um, but it's just a really fun story. 526 00:48:49,952.2259645 --> 00:48:55,562.2249645 And, uh, the goal is ultimately to do a bunch of these for all different countries. 527 00:48:55,572.2259645 --> 00:48:57,532.2259645 So it's a way for kids to learn about the world. 528 00:48:58,642.2259645 --> 00:49:02,142.2259645 Going on an adventure with a dog and learn some good lessons along the way. 529 00:49:02,942.2259644 --> 00:49:03,412.2259644 Yeah. 530 00:49:03,762.2259644 --> 00:49:16,752.2259645 How did you convey to your mom the scenes that then became the illustrations? Picture based? Memory based? A lot of picture based, um, and then I would do, yeah, I would like go through and be like, oh, here's pictures. 531 00:49:16,752.2259645 --> 00:49:20,242.2249645 I would search, scour the internet for pictures of like what's representative. 532 00:49:20,852.2259645 --> 00:49:21,762.2259645 It's difficult though. 533 00:49:21,842.2259645 --> 00:49:24,652.2259645 Um, and the book we're working on right now is in Kyrgyzstan. 534 00:49:24,972.2259645 --> 00:49:32,892.2259645 And we were just talking yesterday about like, what's representative and she was looking for, uh, for Bishkek, uh, like a cityscape of Bishkek. 535 00:49:33,682.2259645 --> 00:49:38,52.2254645 And so I was trying to find her, uh, some good photos that I thought would work. 536 00:49:38,52.2254645 --> 00:49:43,672.2249645 And luckily I, you know, I've photographed enough now to where, and, you know, I, my mom, she's an artist. 537 00:49:43,672.2259645 --> 00:49:46,162.2259645 So we kind of know how to talk to each other in that language. 538 00:49:46,662.2259645 --> 00:49:51,312.2259645 But I am enough of an artist myself now to know, Oh, compositionally what she's looking for. 539 00:49:51,552.2259645 --> 00:49:56,242.2259645 And so I can kind of scour and go, okay, here's what I think, you know, will be useful for you. 540 00:49:57,982.2259645 --> 00:50:06,62.2249645 It's, it's a Is there one for One for the United States coming out anytime soon? Um, not anytime soon. 541 00:50:06,242.2259645 --> 00:50:10,262.2259645 Um, we're working on the Kyrgyzstan and then we'll see where we go next. 542 00:50:11,52.2259644 --> 00:50:12,292.2259644 Okay, cool. 543 00:50:12,512.2249644 --> 00:50:13,652.2259644 At the edge of our seats. 544 00:50:13,682.2249644 --> 00:50:26,412.2259645 I have a couple lightning round questions for you before we sign off, tom, a skill you're currently working on Uh, I would say, uh, the video, video making. 545 00:50:26,412.2259645 --> 00:50:51,42.2259645 So because of Instagram and, The Reels, uh, and because I'm trying to promote this book where I will be trying to promote this book, I'm retelling my walk through, um, Reels through, through talking about it and looking back on it and, and the things I was going through and in hindsight, what my feelings were and how my feelings are about it now. 546 00:50:51,142.2259645 --> 00:50:57,502.2259645 Um, and, uh, so I'm just, I'm, you know, getting better at, at making the videos, hopefully. 547 00:50:58,262.2259645 --> 00:51:00,212.2259645 yeah, I would say I pretty actively I'm working on that. 548 00:51:02,262.2259644 --> 00:51:02,692.2259644 Awesome. 549 00:51:02,742.2259644 --> 00:51:09,802.2259645 A favorite way to relax Favorite way to relax, I'd say walk the dogs. 550 00:51:10,712.2259645 --> 00:51:14,307.2259644 That's a funny thing, but We are on theme today. 551 00:51:15,772.2259645 --> 00:51:16,192.2259645 Yeah. 552 00:51:16,672.2259645 --> 00:51:17,372.2249645 On theme. 553 00:51:17,412.2259645 --> 00:51:17,692.2254645 Yeah. 554 00:51:17,692.2254645 --> 00:51:18,332.2249645 There's no secret. 555 00:51:18,382.2259645 --> 00:51:29,422.2259645 I mean, that was really the first thing that came to my head, uh, was when I'm, when I'm writing all day or whatever, it's like, I go out, go for a walk, clear my head, and then I get back and I feel refreshed. 556 00:51:29,832.2259645 --> 00:51:31,32.2259645 Um, yeah. 557 00:51:31,52.2259645 --> 00:51:31,902.2259645 Walking the dogs. 558 00:51:33,787.2259644 --> 00:51:38,572.2259645 Uh, where did your name come from? It is Croatian. 559 00:51:38,682.2259645 --> 00:51:40,332.2259645 Uh, the H was added. 560 00:51:40,662.2259645 --> 00:51:48,532.2259645 When my great, great grandfather, uh, came over to the U S, um, before then there was two accents over the seas. 561 00:51:49,132.2259645 --> 00:51:53,232.2259645 Uh, but yeah, from the Island of Kirk in Croatia, that's where that name is from. 562 00:51:53,282.2259645 --> 00:52:02,862.2259645 And, um, it was a, uh, it was a family of doctors, um, supposedly, uh, there's a little village there on Kirk called Turchik. 563 00:52:03,332.2259645 --> 00:52:04,422.2259645 And, uh, it's all doctors. 564 00:52:04,422.2259645 --> 00:52:05,732.2259645 So it's like five houses. 565 00:52:08,127.2259644 --> 00:52:11,902.2259645 But the pronunciation has changed over time? Yeah. 566 00:52:11,902.2259645 --> 00:52:14,542.2259645 It's Tursich now and it's Turchik before. 567 00:52:15,937.2259644 --> 00:52:16,237.2259644 Cool. 568 00:52:16,617.2259644 --> 00:52:22,652.2259645 Uh, a book that left a lasting impression on you? Ooh, man. 569 00:52:22,822.2259645 --> 00:52:24,322.2259645 That's a, that's a tough one. 570 00:52:24,332.2259645 --> 00:52:25,772.2259645 There's a, there's a lot of books. 571 00:52:26,82.2259645 --> 00:52:28,92.2259645 Um, the one I'll say right now. 572 00:52:28,232.2249645 --> 00:52:30,2.2259645 Oh, actually, maybe I'll switch it up. 573 00:52:31,422.2259645 --> 00:52:36,582.2249645 Um, I will say, okay, I'll say, I'll say Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. 574 00:52:37,512.2249645 --> 00:52:41,242.2249645 when I was walking across the U S, um, through the American West. 575 00:52:41,622.2259645 --> 00:52:50,292.2259645 I first read Mountain Man, which is, um, it was this movie, um, Johnson with Robert Redford. 576 00:52:50,472.2259645 --> 00:52:59,772.2259645 So it's a classic American Mountain Man movie, he's a trapper in the Rockies, and it's all from this perspective of a trapper. 577 00:53:00,22.2259645 --> 00:53:06,362.2259645 And he's really racist towards the Native Americans and he's very, uh, just self motivated. 578 00:53:06,392.2259645 --> 00:53:07,362.2259645 He loves nature. 579 00:53:07,442.2259645 --> 00:53:09,62.2259645 It's like its own singular story. 580 00:53:09,422.2259645 --> 00:53:19,692.2259645 And then I got caught in this blizzard in Montana and I had to stop at this little, uh, kind of, it wasn't even a hotel, it was a stage stop, a stagecoach stop, I guess it would be. 581 00:53:20,92.2259645 --> 00:53:28,92.2259645 And it's like this blizzard and they had, uh, this copy of Bury My Wounded Wounded Knee, which is basically, it was like the first collection. 582 00:53:28,287.2259645 --> 00:53:36,137.2259645 of stories of Native American tribes and their experience when, uh, there was the Great Migration West by the white man. 583 00:53:36,957.2249645 --> 00:53:43,457.2259645 And kind of just how there's just like this massive tide of humanity coming out and there was no escaping the change that was happening. 584 00:53:43,687.2259645 --> 00:53:55,767.2259645 And it was, I've read it, since I've read those books back to back, it was like this really powerful juxtaposition um, you know, this, this kind of closed singular view of the world. 585 00:53:56,107.2249645 --> 00:54:20,482.2259645 And then this, this, The Barrymore Hooded Wounded Knee had this, it told so many different stories and had this great scope of like, what it's like to have a thousand mountain men in, in, in, uh, in the Rockies or the army coming out or all these stage coaches coming out and just being the Native Americans, just being unable to escape the change that was coming and kind of like all the heartbreak that that came with it. 586 00:54:21,242.2259645 --> 00:54:23,402.2259645 it was, and then it was especially poignant because. 587 00:54:24,732.2259645 --> 00:54:38,792.2259645 After traveling everywhere and being welcomed and being able to camp pretty freely in most places, the US has some of the worst camping, um, that you can imagine, which is such a shame because it's such a big country. 588 00:54:38,802.2259645 --> 00:54:42,512.2259645 It's so big, and it's so beautiful. 589 00:54:42,522.2259645 --> 00:54:43,907.1259645 I mean, the American West is, is beautiful. 590 00:54:43,907.3259645 --> 00:54:45,897.2259645 As beautiful as anywhere I've been in the world. 591 00:54:45,917.2259645 --> 00:54:47,27.2259645 It is gorgeous. 592 00:54:48,67.2259645 --> 00:54:57,7.2259645 And there's parts of it where every bit of land is fenced in and it says private part property and you know, the owners have guns. 593 00:54:57,127.2259645 --> 00:55:01,867.2249645 And if the cops get you, they think you have a gun and they're armed. 594 00:55:02,257.2259645 --> 00:55:13,952.2259645 And for as incredible, uh, like what incredible beauty and, uh, That the Native Americans got to experience. 595 00:55:14,302.2259645 --> 00:55:26,582.2254645 And they were to the point where they didn't even have a concept for private land ownership and to have gone from such, from that to now such an extreme where America just had some of the worst camping I had around the world. 596 00:55:26,582.2254645 --> 00:55:26,892.2249645 Which. 597 00:55:27,122.2259645 --> 00:55:29,352.2259645 Again, it's like so heartbreaking. 598 00:55:29,702.2259645 --> 00:55:35,252.2259645 Um, that book really, uh, really made me look at my own country in a, in a, in a different light. 599 00:55:35,927.2259644 --> 00:55:40,532.2259645 In what could have been, and what is still possible? Yeah. 600 00:55:40,922.2259645 --> 00:55:41,702.2249645 Yeah, definitely. 601 00:55:42,737.2249644 --> 00:55:58,942.2259645 Something people get wrong about you, Tom? Um, something that people get wrong about me, I would say, uh, anytime there's any social media, like, uh, like, uh, there's like 60 second doc video or something like that. 602 00:55:58,972.2259645 --> 00:55:59,922.2259645 All like the. 603 00:56:00,552.2259645 --> 00:56:03,752.2259645 The people who don't know my story think I'm, came from money. 604 00:56:04,522.2259645 --> 00:56:07,102.2259645 like, I mean, I came from a nice town. 605 00:56:07,122.2259645 --> 00:56:08,12.2259645 It's great town. 606 00:56:08,132.2259645 --> 00:56:12,862.2259645 My parents lost their house when I was like right out of college and I was paying their mortgage. 607 00:56:12,872.2259645 --> 00:56:14,182.2259645 So no, I didn't come from money. 608 00:56:15,397.2259644 --> 00:56:16,367.2259644 That's a great answer. 609 00:56:16,567.2259644 --> 00:56:27,972.2259645 And something you're grateful for? Uh, grateful for Savannah and that she's in good health and, uh, that she's happy. 610 00:56:29,17.2259644 --> 00:56:32,202.2259645 She's eight now? She's nine. 611 00:56:32,492.2259645 --> 00:56:32,832.2259645 Yeah. 612 00:56:33,407.2259644 --> 00:56:33,767.2259644 Nine. 613 00:56:34,372.2259645 --> 00:56:34,602.2259645 Yeah. 614 00:56:34,617.2259644 --> 00:56:44,82.2259645 Uh, and lastly, a song or album that you would recommend? Uh, I've been listening to world music radio by John Batiste. 615 00:56:44,302.2259645 --> 00:56:45,942.2259645 Uh, like on repeat. 616 00:56:46,152.2259645 --> 00:56:46,822.2259645 It's a great album. 617 00:56:48,112.2259644 --> 00:56:48,442.2259644 Cool. 618 00:56:48,562.2259644 --> 00:56:48,982.2259644 Noted. 619 00:56:49,602.2259644 --> 00:56:54,222.2259644 Tom, thanks so much for, for this time and for sharing your story. 620 00:56:56,2.2259645 --> 00:56:59,82.2259645 Yeah, thanks so much for having me in the thoughtful questions. 621 00:57:03,532.3798418 --> 00:57:04,582.3798418 Thanks for being here. 622 00:57:05,152.3798418 --> 00:57:12,682.3798418 If this conversation resonated with you, consider reviewing therapy for the world or sharing the link with someone who might appreciate it. 623 00:57:13,342.3798418 --> 00:57:16,792.3798418 Until next time, speak with care and listen deeply.