Resisting Real Estate and Building Greener Cities with Our Neighbors

Alejandro Lacreu is an architect, inventor, and member of the activist group Neighbors for Palermo. We talk about his lifelong career designing and supervising projects in "inhospitable", remote and demanding environments, including work in Mendoza and Manhattan. After, Ale shares how his architectural vision eventually expanded into neighborhood organizing, as he began questioning the impacts of unchecked real estate development in Buenos Aires. We talk about the politics of green space, the value of doing work that outlives us, and the collaborative project we're part of to transform a vacant lot in Buenos Aires into a public forest. Ale also reflects on what it means to be good neighbors and how to work across differences in service of the common good. 🇦🇷 También con subtítulos en español en YouTube. Support the project: patreon.com/TherapyfortheWorld Music credits: “Limit 70,” licensed by Kevin MacLeod “Meditation” by Jules Massenet, from the Library of Congress Jukebox

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
everywhere that, where there was, uh, old houses, one story, maybe two, but all houses that are, are within the, the, the identity of the neighbor that is, I wouldn't say yet gone, but is that we are losing that.

(00:20):
We are losing that, uh, just to, uh, for the, for the, um.
Real estate, uh, developers make more money only for that.
Only for that.
So that, that is no improvement, no development, not real development. 6 00:00:50,525.15675709 --> 00:00:58,295.15675709 Welcome to Therapy for the World, an interview series with people working across the spectrum of self-care and world care. 7 00:00:58,865.15675709 --> 00:01:10,685.15675709 I'm Dan Sicorsky, a writing teacher and therapist, and the other voice you hear is Alejandro Lacreu, an architect, inventor, and member of the activist group, neighbors for Palermo. 8 00:01:11,435.15675709 --> 00:01:17,225.15675709 We recorded this on July 11th, 2025 at half past 12 in the afternoon. 9 00:01:17,735.15675709 --> 00:01:18,845.15675709 Here's our conversation. 10 00:01:31,737.250811344 --> 00:01:45,267.25081134 I wanted to start by asking you, as I have been starting these interviews by asking you if you can point to experiences or people something, anything in your early childhood or your upbringing that helped you become the person you are today. 11 00:01:47,513.25081134 --> 00:01:59,543.25081134 Well, uh, that, uh, could have a very long answer, but, um, since you're talking about my, uh, early childhood, I start from zero. 12 00:02:00,953.25081134 --> 00:02:11,633.25081134 I, I think everyone is, uh, like a product of, uh, uh, their, uh, biological parents and their education. 13 00:02:11,633.25081134 --> 00:02:13,433.25081134 But whoever writes you. 14 00:02:14,103.25081134 --> 00:02:14,913.25081134 Raise you. 15 00:02:15,453.25081134 --> 00:02:19,353.25081134 And, um, that is, um, uh, who I am. 16 00:02:19,983.25081134 --> 00:02:31,833.25081134 Um, my mother, uh, was a very hard, uh, woman, like a worker, hard, hard worker, and, uh, decision maker. 17 00:02:32,223.25081134 --> 00:02:36,603.25081134 And, um, she was in love, uh, with my father. 18 00:02:37,173.25081134 --> 00:02:40,923.25081134 And they live all the time together until my father died. 19 00:02:41,913.25081134 --> 00:02:58,863.25081134 Um, and well, she, she gave us, uh, I mean both of them gave, gave us, um, my, my brother and sister and me and I, uh, gave us, uh, I think a good education and, um. 20 00:02:59,813.25081134 --> 00:03:11,963.25081134 My father was, uh, um, like, uh, an entrepreneur, but, uh, no Money Entrepreneur is, he was not an investor or nothing like that, nothing about business. 21 00:03:12,323.25081134 --> 00:03:23,693.25081134 But he did, uh, start many kind of different, uh, works, uh, after he study lots of different subjects. 22 00:03:23,843.25081134 --> 00:03:34,73.25081134 Um, and he was even influencer is a, uh, a new word for people on, on media and that stuff. 23 00:03:34,403.25081134 --> 00:03:44,933.25081134 I believe my father was a big influencer answer, uh, starting by, um, his, uh, sons and daughter and, um. 24 00:03:45,578.25081134 --> 00:04:00,248.25081134 And he did have a, a big influence on, on that since, uh, he study and work as, um, he studied biology and geologist and, uh, and, uh, architecture. 25 00:04:00,428.25081134 --> 00:04:02,618.25081134 He never ended any of these careers. 26 00:04:02,648.25081134 --> 00:04:05,48.25081134 But my, my brother is a geologist. 27 00:04:05,48.25081134 --> 00:04:08,138.25081134 My sister is a biologist and I'm an architect. 28 00:04:08,678.25081134 --> 00:04:09,518.25081134 Uh, that is. 29 00:04:10,243.25081134 --> 00:04:18,763.25081134 Quite by the books, right? I mean, the following, your, your, your your father's dream. 30 00:04:19,153.25081134 --> 00:04:22,543.25081134 And he also worked like that in many different places. 31 00:04:22,543.25081134 --> 00:04:34,303.25081134 Worked like an architect, like a, uh, minor and, uh, like a chemistry, um, doing, uh, stuff by, uh, water and something. 32 00:04:34,753.25081134 --> 00:04:39,703.25081134 And also both of them were, uh, very inclined to arts. 33 00:04:40,243.25081134 --> 00:04:45,493.25081134 Uh, my mother took us to every single concert she could have. 34 00:04:45,793.25081134 --> 00:04:53,953.25081134 And, um, uh, and my, my father, uh, this is the way he, he make his inference on us. 35 00:04:54,283.25081134 --> 00:04:57,733.25081134 He brought one day, he brought a very little, uh, like. 36 00:04:58,583.25081134 --> 00:05:02,273.25081134 Kind of a flute, very short, very simple. 37 00:05:02,783.25081134 --> 00:05:08,333.25081134 And rather than telling, look at this, try to play, he start playing that. 38 00:05:08,363.25081134 --> 00:05:10,913.25081134 Then all of us, oh, I want, I want, I want. 39 00:05:11,213.25081134 --> 00:05:21,413.25081134 So, uh, and then we, we became, uh, musicians, not professional, but we did learn to play the, the flute and better flute than that. 40 00:05:21,413.25081134 --> 00:05:23,813.25081134 And we, all, four of us played together. 41 00:05:23,813.25081134 --> 00:05:25,433.25081134 And that was very, very nice. 42 00:05:25,913.25081134 --> 00:05:31,643.25081134 And my mother also took us to every concert or ballet or, uh, painting shows. 43 00:05:31,643.25081134 --> 00:05:36,443.25081134 And I mean, I, I, I grew up in that kind of environment. 44 00:05:37,433.25081134 --> 00:05:40,883.25081134 So, uh, yeah. 45 00:05:40,883.25081134 --> 00:05:54,773.25081134 Um, so then I, I, I, when, when I finished, uh, high school, uh, I was, uh, I kind of was willing to, uh, study, uh, in industrial design. 46 00:05:54,822.25081134 --> 00:05:55,583.25081134 was gonna I wasn't. 47 00:05:55,752.25081134 --> 00:05:55,992.25081134 that. 48 00:05:55,992.25081134 --> 00:06:05,663.25081134 What, what was the conversation like with your parents and, and did they, did they become involved at all in your decision about what to study? Uh, not at all. 49 00:06:05,753.25081134 --> 00:06:06,503.25081134 Not at all. 50 00:06:06,503.25081134 --> 00:06:25,673.25081134 I mean, they, they did influence on us a lot, but, uh, mostly by letting us doing, not imposing or suggesting what to do, what not to do. 51 00:06:26,183.25081134 --> 00:06:37,823.25081134 I mean, that is a big, that is a big, um, uh, thing that I had in my childhood, like, um, permission. 52 00:06:38,873.25081134 --> 00:06:39,683.25081134 Um. 53 00:06:41,3.25081134 --> 00:06:43,343.25081134 Allowed to do whatever they want. 54 00:06:43,913.25081134 --> 00:06:45,713.25081134 I mean, of course there were limits. 55 00:06:45,773.25081134 --> 00:06:52,343.25081134 Uh, when you are a kid, you have to have limits, but not pushing, go this way or go that way. 56 00:06:52,733.25081134 --> 00:06:54,593.25081134 You wanna try this? Go ahead. 57 00:06:54,773.25081134 --> 00:06:58,583.25081134 Um, you wanna change this? Go ahead, try to do that. 58 00:06:58,583.25081134 --> 00:07:00,53.25081134 I mean, whatever you want. 59 00:07:00,473.25081134 --> 00:07:09,173.25081134 And that was a big, a big thing, uh, that, um, uh, I think it was, uh, the, the best influence I, I did have. 60 00:07:09,503.25081134 --> 00:07:15,233.25081134 And that's why I later, uh, allowed myself to invent some things. 61 00:07:16,73.25081134 --> 00:07:27,863.25081134 And, and, and the most, um, uh, most, uh, the, the big part of, uh, in invention, uh, has to do with that. 62 00:07:28,43.25081134 --> 00:07:34,703.25081134 Allow yourself to improve something, to do something new, to invent something. 63 00:07:35,242.25081134 --> 00:07:37,607.25081134 I think that So, Permission is great. 64 00:07:37,757.25081134 --> 00:07:39,113.25081134 Uh, so, so yeah. 65 00:07:39,137.25081134 --> 00:07:43,118.25081134 permission to do anything, uh, and you, Correct. 66 00:07:43,118.25081134 --> 00:07:43,388.25081134 Yeah. 67 00:07:43,517.25081134 --> 00:07:52,757.25081134 how, how did you start to choose industrial design? What, what was sort of, I, it's a, I feel they, they feel like kind of big words for someone who's just, you know, a 17 or 18 choosing what to study. 68 00:07:52,907.25081134 --> 00:07:59,288.25081134 What, what, how did you know what that was? Why were you interested in it? Um, I don't know. 69 00:07:59,288.25081134 --> 00:08:10,778.25081134 I mean, um, I believe I, I, I saw my father doing some things that, uh, were like, um, were new for me. 70 00:08:10,778.25081134 --> 00:08:25,448.25081134 I mean, he didn't quite invent it something, but I, he was always with a tool or fixing something or, uh, improving something that was, uh, broken or fixing. 71 00:08:26,258.25081134 --> 00:08:26,738.25081134 I don't know. 72 00:08:26,768.25081134 --> 00:08:28,808.25081134 I think that might have something to do. 73 00:08:28,868.25081134 --> 00:08:44,438.25081134 And also the, this what I told you, this permission to think something could be better, that is something that, yes, my father was, uh, always thinking this is like this, but it could be better. 74 00:08:44,967.25081134 --> 00:08:46,598.25081134 Like what And in his yeah. 75 00:08:46,658.25081134 --> 00:08:57,668.25081134 What? sort of things would he see and, uh, feel permission to improve? Um, I don't know. 76 00:08:57,668.25081134 --> 00:09:09,68.25081134 Like, um, I, I, I don't I, that no, no example can comes to my mind now, but, um, also, uh, I mean, I don't know. 77 00:09:09,128.25081134 --> 00:09:12,278.25081134 I, I maybe something comes up, uh, to me to tell you. 78 00:09:12,788.25081134 --> 00:09:22,868.25081134 Um, but he was always, uh, that is something else that, that both of them, uh, uh, uh, uh, taught us. 79 00:09:23,798.25081134 --> 00:09:35,108.25081134 With no intention to teach it just by doing that, uh, be close to nature, uh, respect nature. 80 00:09:36,158.25081134 --> 00:09:40,298.25081134 Uh, for example, uh, that came to me like, uh, water. 81 00:09:40,328.25081134 --> 00:09:43,988.25081134 My, my father was, uh, has a very concern about water. 82 00:09:44,408.25081134 --> 00:09:57,908.25081134 So, uh, how to use water to clean something and do not throw the water after you clean it because there is something even more dirty that you can clean with that dirty water. 83 00:09:58,28.25081134 --> 00:10:01,988.25081134 And then steps to use the water a few times. 84 00:10:03,38.25081134 --> 00:10:09,218.25081134 So, um, that is something, um. 85 00:10:09,848.25081134 --> 00:10:34,208.25081134 And, um, well, I, I, I, I live with that and, uh, I was also inclined, uh, to be part of natural, uh, even I didn't start biology or, or geologist like my brother and my sister, but I, I, I was always inclined to, uh, protect nature and to, to live with nature. 86 00:10:34,627.25081134 --> 00:10:35,433.25081134 And this Uh. 87 00:10:35,442.25081134 --> 00:10:37,482.25081134 this is all happening in the city of Buenos Aires. 88 00:10:37,842.25081134 --> 00:10:41,378.25081134 Is that where you were raised? No, no, no, no, no. 89 00:10:41,378.25081134 --> 00:10:54,227.25081134 Since my father was changing, uh, work for all, all the time, um, I, I was born in Buenos Aires, in Pado Mar, uh, close to Harling, Okay. 90 00:10:54,758.25081134 --> 00:10:57,368.25081134 in the, in the suburbs of Buenos Aires. 91 00:10:57,788.25081134 --> 00:11:04,868.25081134 And then we moved to my mother, my father discover, uh, a mine of a wolf from which is tungsten. 92 00:11:04,988.25081134 --> 00:11:08,408.25081134 Tungsten, and, well, the whole family. 93 00:11:08,678.25081134 --> 00:11:13,748.25081134 My sister was not born yet, but uh, and she born close to that mine. 94 00:11:14,348.25081134 --> 00:11:17,618.25081134 Um, so the whole family was there. 95 00:11:17,648.25081134 --> 00:11:24,428.25081134 My father was trying, but as since he was not, uh, good on business, um. 96 00:11:25,748.25081134 --> 00:11:29,78.25081134 Uh, that, that that project, uh, was, uh, failed. 97 00:11:29,498.25081134 --> 00:11:31,778.25081134 But he did found the, the, the toast string. 98 00:11:31,778.25081134 --> 00:11:43,628.25081134 They start, uh, um, uh, taking that, I mean, uh, from, from the mine, but the, then to sell that and to do a business about that was failed. 99 00:11:43,988.25081134 --> 00:11:51,128.25081134 So, uh, and then, um, after that we moved to Mardel Plata and then back to Buenos Aires. 100 00:11:51,128.25081134 --> 00:11:55,928.25081134 And then by, by myself, I went to, um, Mendoza and San Juan. 101 00:11:56,168.25081134 --> 00:12:01,358.25081134 I, I was traveling all, all over the country, working pretty much. 102 00:12:01,457.25081134 --> 00:12:09,612.25081134 I was thinking about that because it would, it would've been very surprising to me, although I'm sure Buenos Aires all those years ago was a different place than it is now. 103 00:12:09,882.25081134 --> 00:12:15,792.25081134 But a complaint that many people have currently about Buenos Aires is that it's not a, a city rooted in nature. 104 00:12:15,972.25081134 --> 00:12:22,932.25081134 It's not a city where appreciation of nature comes easy because it is, it is a concrete jungle in many of its parts. 105 00:12:23,142.25081134 --> 00:12:31,632.25081134 Um, so I was, I was surprised that you might have felt that way growing up here, but it evidently you were, you were raised in other parts in places that were a Yeah, more nature based. 106 00:12:32,333.25081134 --> 00:12:33,83.25081134 definitely. 107 00:12:33,503.25081134 --> 00:12:48,623.25081134 Uh, and actually I, I, I went to Mendoza in order to, um, specialize my architectural, um, work on places, I don't know the word in English, in hospital. 108 00:12:49,223.25081134 --> 00:12:53,363.25081134 How would you say that? like not hospitable places, Yeah, yeah. 109 00:12:53,393.25081134 --> 00:12:53,783.25081134 Okay. 110 00:12:54,53.25081134 --> 00:12:59,963.25081134 Thinking that, uh, I mean, I did work, uh, uh, a number of them in the middle of the Andes. 111 00:13:00,443.25081134 --> 00:13:04,733.25081134 Uh, I, I built, uh, the first buildings on a ski center. 112 00:13:05,153.25081134 --> 00:13:12,143.25081134 Um, I, I built an, uh, astronomic, uh, observatory in San Juan in the middle of nothing. 113 00:13:13,38.25081134 --> 00:13:20,633.25081134 I, I built a, a, an airport, uh, close to Mendoza that was not in the middle of nothing but was far from the sea. 114 00:13:20,633.25081134 --> 00:13:20,693.25081134 I. 115 00:13:20,922.25081134 --> 00:13:23,22.25081134 that people don't think people can live in. 116 00:13:24,398.25081134 --> 00:13:25,478.25081134 Yes. 117 00:13:25,958.25081134 --> 00:13:44,348.25081134 But um, after a number of years, I discovered that the most inhospitable place that I worked was in Manhattan was another kind of hospitable, but, um, Let's then you can. 118 00:13:44,622.25081134 --> 00:13:48,162.25081134 Let's go there because you, you, so you, I know you studied industrial design. 119 00:13:48,372.25081134 --> 00:14:06,983.25081134 Um, how long did you work in, in, in Arina before you made your move to to Manhattan? Well, I work in Argentina until I was almost 50, meaning 25 years, or close to 30 years. 120 00:14:07,433.25081134 --> 00:14:14,843.25081134 Um, in Argentina, in, in, uh, in Mendoza, San Juan, a little in Buenos Aires, not that much. 121 00:14:15,53.25081134 --> 00:14:23,483.25081134 Um, so, and then I, uh, from Mendoza, I came back to Buenos Aires and start working. 122 00:14:23,513.25081134 --> 00:14:30,293.25081134 Uh, I think at that time I, I was, I start working as a metalsmith. 123 00:14:31,283.25081134 --> 00:14:41,753.25081134 Um, doing some architectural work, but, but closer to industrial design and, and metalsmith, uh, that kind of, uh, mix. 124 00:14:42,353.25081134 --> 00:14:55,973.25081134 Uh, I was good at that because, uh, I was also like the translator between metalsmith people and architect because I knew both languages. 125 00:14:56,603.25081134 --> 00:15:01,673.25081134 So I'm not a, for example, I'm not a good welder. 126 00:15:01,733.25081134 --> 00:15:07,43.25081134 I am my, my skills as a welder as not that good as many other I know. 127 00:15:07,583.25081134 --> 00:15:17,933.25081134 But, uh, since I design and I understand space and uh, and plans and all of that, uh, I was successful as a metal worker. 128 00:15:18,893.25081134 --> 00:15:24,923.25081134 So, um, and then I moved to Manhattan in 2001. 129 00:15:25,22.25081134 --> 00:15:41,167.25081134 And at that point, how did you identify professionally? I feel like I'm inclined to, to classify you under one profession, but it sounds like over those 25 years you did, uh, many, many different things and, and all those projects that you were just describing of building all these different types of things in different places. 130 00:15:41,287.25081134 --> 00:15:44,17.25081134 Uh, what, how did you, what did you call yourself? Okay. 131 00:15:44,17.25081134 --> 00:15:45,963.25081134 Hey, hey, Manhattan, I'm ale and I'm a. 132 00:15:47,78.25081134 --> 00:15:47,768.25081134 Yeah. 133 00:15:47,768.25081134 --> 00:15:54,818.25081134 Um, well, it's, um, I, I didn't have a name for what I do, but it's closer to an architect. 134 00:15:55,208.25081134 --> 00:16:10,298.25081134 But the point is that I was not an architect that sit in a, in a, in a chair or at that time already, I should have sit, uh, with a computer, which I didn't have skills to do, to do drawings and stuff with AutoCAD or nothing like that. 135 00:16:10,928.25081134 --> 00:16:17,378.25081134 But, um, I'm not the one who is, um, designing architecture on a desk. 136 00:16:17,858.25081134 --> 00:16:28,178.25081134 I was at the time because my experience, my previous experience in Mendozas and Juan, et cetera, was to build something that someone else designed. 137 00:16:28,778.25081134 --> 00:16:33,698.25081134 And I was trained for that and to do the actual work. 138 00:16:34,118.25081134 --> 00:16:36,908.25081134 I, at, at that time, I was, um, I. 139 00:16:37,613.25081134 --> 00:16:43,493.2508113 Uh, like, um, um, directing, uh, I mean, uh, organizing the jobs. 140 00:16:43,523.2508113 --> 00:16:57,443.2508113 I didn't use a hammer or, or, or a saw in my hand at that time, but I learned those, um, skills and in Manhattan I did use the hammer and, and everything, but I knew. 141 00:16:58,343.2508113 --> 00:17:04,163.2508113 Pretty much all these specialties like electricity, plumbing, uh, uh, carpentry, all of that. 142 00:17:04,553.2508113 --> 00:17:16,883.2508113 And I worked like that in Manhattan doing the whole thing, designing, building and, and taking care of the, of the crew and as myself also. 143 00:17:16,973.2508113 --> 00:17:31,403.2508113 Uh, so that is what I did in, in Manhattan, and I was quite good on that because I, within my crew, I, I had, uh, all the specialties and myself and within the whole thing. 144 00:17:31,943.2508113 --> 00:17:39,413.2508113 Um, it's not that I have to, uh, to, uh, hire someone else to do part of the job. 145 00:17:39,893.2508113 --> 00:17:42,353.2508113 Uh, me and my crew did, uh, everything. 146 00:17:42,417.2508113 --> 00:17:52,537.2508113 did you assemble that crew? Uh, you know, having just arrived in Manhattan, I don't know if you, if you knew many people in the area, how did you gather those, um, experts in their different specialties? I. 147 00:17:52,838.2508113 --> 00:17:54,278.2508113 That is a good question. 148 00:17:54,368.2508113 --> 00:18:00,668.2508113 Uh, a friend of mine, uh, Roberto, that, um, brought me to the States actually. 149 00:18:01,88.2508113 --> 00:18:05,438.2508113 Um, he found me jobs immediately the day I got there. 150 00:18:06,8.2508113 --> 00:18:14,738.2508113 When he picked me up at, at the airport, uh, he asked me, when do you wanna start working? I said, how about now? Okay. 151 00:18:14,858.2508113 --> 00:18:24,398.2508113 He, he took me to a kind of him that, uh, was about to ask him a job and he says, okay, this is my friend Alejandro. 152 00:18:24,398.2508113 --> 00:18:26,18.2508113 Please give it, give it to him. 153 00:18:26,18.2508113 --> 00:18:31,658.2508113 And I start working that afternoon and just by myself. 154 00:18:32,138.2508113 --> 00:18:46,808.2508113 And then I, um, I hire someone from Uruguay, all illegal people, I mean workers, you know, in New York is full of them, not now, but, um. 155 00:18:48,293.2508113 --> 00:19:04,763.2508113 Then, uh, I sold my house in BA to, uh, a lady that, uh, her, uh, uh, her nephew wanted to go to the States and he says, he called me, he says, uh, my nephew is a plumber to have a job for him. 156 00:19:04,763.2508113 --> 00:19:06,443.2508113 I said, yes, of course, send him here. 157 00:19:06,743.2508113 --> 00:19:14,183.2508113 The day he got there, I gave him a job, and, and then we become, we are now, we are very good friends because he's back too. 158 00:19:14,693.2508113 --> 00:19:28,733.2508113 So, um, and then by word, uh, do you know someone who can do this or that? Um, so one of the things that is inhospitable in Manhattan is that you have to. 159 00:19:29,128.2508113 --> 00:19:40,678.2508113 Um, you, you have to take care of your car all the time 'cause you cannot park here or you can park here until that time and then you have to move it. 160 00:19:41,8.2508113 --> 00:19:44,38.2508113 So one of us was in charge of the car. 161 00:19:44,428.2508113 --> 00:19:49,258.2508113 We need the car to bring tools and materials and stuff and, and on our sales. 162 00:19:49,738.2508113 --> 00:19:55,738.2508113 Um, but, uh, one of us was in charge of the car because, uh, I, I, I, I need that. 163 00:19:56,68.2508113 --> 00:20:03,448.2508113 I mean, you cannot leave the car park for four hours or five hours or, or eight hours in a place. 164 00:20:03,448.2508113 --> 00:20:04,408.2508113 You have to move it. 165 00:20:04,408.2508113 --> 00:20:08,548.2508113 You have to go buy something and come back and there is no park place. 166 00:20:08,618.2508113 --> 00:20:09,548.2508113 Et cetera. 167 00:20:10,178.2508113 --> 00:20:30,543.2508113 So, um, yeah, I made that crew, I mean, the crew was changing, then the Uruguay left and Puerto Rican came, uh, to the crew and we were pretty much changing, except for Juan and I, that Juan is the, the problem that, uh, came from Buenos Aires. 168 00:20:31,17.2508113 --> 00:20:53,162.2508113 you were describing inhospitable as a welcome challenge, right? When you go to a place and it's inhospitable, you're like, Hmm, how can we make this place a little bit more hospitable or try to defy the inhospitable of this place? But it sounds like, like, did Manhattan uh, inspire you in that way? Uh, okay, let's try to make Manhattan hospitable or So, not so much. 169 00:20:53,438.2508113 --> 00:20:53,498.2508113 Yeah. 170 00:20:54,278.2508113 --> 00:20:54,788.2508113 Oh no. 171 00:20:54,788.2508113 --> 00:21:04,898.2508113 I just adjust, uh, myself and my, my work to the, the, the problems, uh, to work and, uh, in, in Manhattan. 172 00:21:05,258.2508113 --> 00:21:13,508.2508113 And, um, and luckily I find a, uh, a girl that helped me on that a lot. 173 00:21:13,988.2508113 --> 00:21:15,668.2508113 And finally I marry her. 174 00:21:16,718.2508113 --> 00:21:18,308.2508113 So, but, um. 175 00:21:18,948.2508113 --> 00:21:19,428.2508113 Yeah. 176 00:21:19,488.2508113 --> 00:21:33,738.2508113 Uh, when I start, uh, I, I was challenged to go to Mendoza Province in order to specialize in un hospitable basis, because that is supposed to be in the middle of nature. 177 00:21:34,368.2508113 --> 00:21:51,378.2508113 And it, it was, it was, I mean, uh, uh, I have to, uh, fix many problems that, um, challenge you when you don't have a, a, a hardware store around the corner and there is no communication. 178 00:21:51,678.2508113 --> 00:21:58,698.2508113 Most of my job were at the time was no internet, no computer, no cell phone, no nothing, just by radio. 179 00:21:58,938.2508113 --> 00:22:05,538.2508113 And sometimes the radio didn't, um, didn't work because there was a hill next to you, so nothing. 180 00:22:06,78.2508113 --> 00:22:09,108.2508113 Uh, and so how to use resources. 181 00:22:09,138.2508113 --> 00:22:12,978.2508113 I remember once I had to buy some trees. 182 00:22:14,333.2508113 --> 00:22:25,823.2508113 Which I would never do in ba but uh, in Mendoza, I mean a, a, a, uh, uh, woods of, uh, um, uh, I don't know the name. 183 00:22:26,723.2508113 --> 00:22:31,103.2508113 Well, it's a kind of tree, uh, that I bought them. 184 00:22:32,768.2508113 --> 00:22:39,188.2508113 In, in the, I mean, I, I didn't do it for myself, but for the company, I was allowed to do those, those kind of things. 185 00:22:39,488.2508113 --> 00:22:49,358.2508113 I need wood in order to bring down a, uh, a tank from a track that the crane was fail, never came down. 186 00:22:49,358.2508113 --> 00:22:52,118.2508113 So I have to do that myself. 187 00:22:52,418.2508113 --> 00:23:02,978.2508113 The, uh, the housekeeper of the, the, the job and the, the driver of the, the truck, because he was there with a big tank for gas and we couldn't bring it down. 188 00:23:02,978.2508113 --> 00:23:14,768.2508113 So I bought the trees, we cut the trees, we brought them to the place, and, and then we rolled the, uh, the, um, the tank over the, these trees. 189 00:23:15,398.2508113 --> 00:23:18,8.2508113 Uh, so I mean, those kind of resources. 190 00:23:18,287.2508113 --> 00:23:19,727.2508113 constant problem solving. 191 00:23:19,757.2508113 --> 00:23:23,327.2508113 Uh, it's impossible to write a manual about how to do the work that you do. 192 00:23:23,627.2508113 --> 00:23:24,848.2508113 Uh, No, no, absolutely. 193 00:23:24,887.2508113 --> 00:23:26,132.2508113 work that you did there? I. 194 00:23:26,318.2508113 --> 00:23:26,948.2508113 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 195 00:23:26,948.2508113 --> 00:23:27,818.2508113 Absolutely not. 196 00:23:27,908.2508113 --> 00:23:28,238.2508113 Yeah. 197 00:23:28,778.2508113 --> 00:23:47,738.2508113 Uh, or, or, uh, when you run out of gas or something in, in, uh, in, uh, when I was building the ski center and we have to bring, uh, bricks to a third floor of a building, and the crane wasn't working because we're no gas so by hand. 198 00:23:48,248.2508113 --> 00:23:54,128.2508113 And I learned a lot from Chileans, uh, carpenters how to move stuff. 199 00:23:54,308.2508113 --> 00:23:58,298.2508113 I mean, you have to deal with the resources you have there. 200 00:23:58,778.2508113 --> 00:24:02,498.2508113 I mean, because you not, you cannot go around the corner buy anything. 201 00:24:02,762.2508113 --> 00:24:13,418.2508113 Is the work that you thought you were gonna be doing when you started to, to, you know, enter this profession? Did you imagine yourself doing the jo, the jobs that you would ultimately do? No, no. 202 00:24:13,418.2508113 --> 00:24:43,118.2508113 But, uh, since, uh, when, when I was just finishing my career, my, my study, uh, when I be just, when I became, uh, an architecture, um, uh, a, a a, um, a cousin of my mother that has this company in Mendoza, uh, told me that, uh, he was an engineer and working for engineering jobs, like, uh, um, roads and bridges and all that stuff. 203 00:24:43,358.2508113 --> 00:24:46,778.2508113 And he wanted to start, um, architecture. 204 00:24:47,528.2508113 --> 00:25:02,858.2508113 So he told me the magic word, would you like to become an un hospitable places specialist on architect? And I said, duh, that's for me. 205 00:25:02,858.2508113 --> 00:25:03,908.2508113 That is me. 206 00:25:04,448.2508113 --> 00:25:08,858.2508113 So I just lived, uh, to Mendoza to do my first job, which was, uh. 207 00:25:09,713.2508113 --> 00:25:19,163.2508113 At, at that time was, um, the, um, soccer, uh, world Cup, um, in 1978. 208 00:25:20,753.2508113 --> 00:25:29,183.2508113 So they have to change the airport, eh, uh, from a small airport in a province to an international airport. 209 00:25:29,723.2508113 --> 00:25:47,633.2508113 And that was a big job, which, uh, I was supposed to be the secondhand of the director of that job, but two months after we started 1977, um, he quit. 210 00:25:48,623.2508113 --> 00:25:49,583.2508113 He. 211 00:25:51,383.2508113 --> 00:25:55,193.2508113 He get in a fight with the owner of the company and he quit. 212 00:25:55,823.2508113 --> 00:25:59,873.2508113 And the owner, actually, they were friends, but, uh, he, they couldn't work together. 213 00:25:59,903.2508113 --> 00:26:08,513.2508113 So, um, my uncle, uh, told him what I'm, I'm gonna do with the job. 214 00:26:08,543.2508113 --> 00:26:15,713.2508113 This is already going, who is gonna take care of that? And he says, Lacreu was a kid. 215 00:26:15,713.2508113 --> 00:26:19,253.2508113 I was like, 27 or 28, something like that. 216 00:26:20,933.2508113 --> 00:26:22,373.2508113 So said, yes, Lacreu can do that. 217 00:26:22,913.2508113 --> 00:26:25,583.2508113 He says, but Abdu does. 218 00:26:25,893.2508113 --> 00:26:27,923.2508113 Lacreu knows how to build airports. 219 00:26:29,843.2508113 --> 00:26:43,523.2508113 So his answer, and that make me a very hard influence, like as, as it was coming from my father, his answer was, can build. 220 00:26:44,303.2508113 --> 00:26:45,563.2508113 That crowd is a builder. 221 00:26:45,953.2508113 --> 00:26:47,183.2508113 He can build anything. 222 00:26:48,743.2508113 --> 00:26:49,523.2508113 So, okay. 223 00:26:49,763.2508113 --> 00:26:58,673.2508113 So since I knew, because I was his secondhand, I was writing notes and reading notes from the inspection, uh, all the time. 224 00:26:58,673.2508113 --> 00:27:02,513.2508113 I knew everything about the job. 225 00:27:03,503.2508113 --> 00:27:05,123.2508113 So I got in charge of that. 226 00:27:05,933.2508113 --> 00:27:10,523.2508113 Of course, uh, in the company, there were engineers and no, no architect. 227 00:27:10,523.2508113 --> 00:27:22,493.2508113 I was the only architect, but there were engineers older than me and more experienced that, uh, uh, guide me and, and, uh, and um, and taught me a lot. 228 00:27:22,883.2508113 --> 00:27:24,863.2508113 But I was in charge of the, of the job. 229 00:27:24,863.2508113 --> 00:27:28,703.2508113 I was the one who deal with inspectors and all of that, We have and. 230 00:27:28,712.2508113 --> 00:27:31,952.2508113 thank for the 1978 World Cups, uh, running smoothly. 231 00:27:33,898.2508113 --> 00:27:35,573.2508113 Yeah, yeah. 232 00:27:35,573.2508113 --> 00:27:36,893.2508113 No, we finished the job. 233 00:27:36,923.2508113 --> 00:27:43,673.2508113 Uh, even we have in the middle of the job we have a big, uh, earthquake. 234 00:27:44,453.2508113 --> 00:27:47,3.2508113 Uh, that was amazing. 235 00:27:47,603.2508113 --> 00:27:55,613.2508113 We, we, the, the, the, the whole building was, uh, like a big shed made of metallic structure. 236 00:27:56,63.2508113 --> 00:28:01,313.2508113 And, um, we need a crane to put the beams over the columns. 237 00:28:01,643.2508113 --> 00:28:06,173.2508113 So without, the crane was very expensive. 238 00:28:06,173.2508113 --> 00:28:14,993.2508113 So I, I, I set up the columns a little loose so I, I can adjust to the beams later. 239 00:28:15,683.2508113 --> 00:28:28,463.2508113 And, um, we hired the crane for one day and we put like 18 beams, one after the other one, and just temporary and, um. 240 00:28:30,638.2508113 --> 00:28:35,348.2508113 Uh, everything rules, like, uh, we we're gonna adjust them tomorrow. 241 00:28:35,348.2508113 --> 00:28:40,328.2508113 Just, just leave, um, uh, leave them in place so the crane can leave. 242 00:28:41,933.2508113 --> 00:28:43,853.2508113 And that night was the earthquake. 243 00:28:44,753.2508113 --> 00:28:50,483.2508113 And I thought, oh my God, when I got to the job, everything is in, in the floor. 244 00:28:51,293.2508113 --> 00:28:52,163.2508113 It didn't happen. 245 00:28:52,493.2508113 --> 00:28:53,813.2508113 Everything was in place. 246 00:28:54,713.2508113 --> 00:29:01,373.2508113 And then we adjust everything, uh, uh, quickly before the next earthquake could come. 247 00:29:01,733.2508113 --> 00:29:03,743.2508113 And I was very lucky on that. 248 00:29:03,803.2508113 --> 00:29:11,453.2508113 Uh, it could have been a disaster that, but I think maybe just because it was, everything was loose, just temporary. 249 00:29:11,453.2508113 --> 00:29:13,163.2508113 Maybe it stayed. 250 00:29:13,613.2508113 --> 00:29:20,693.2508113 So, and that was, uh, it was, uh, not close, but not that far from the city. 251 00:29:21,113.2508113 --> 00:29:24,503.2508113 Uh, I went to my house every, every day. 252 00:29:25,103.2508113 --> 00:29:36,803.2508113 But on the other jobs, like the ski center or the uh, or the um, um, the observatory, I have to stay there because there was no other place to stay. 253 00:29:36,967.2508113 --> 00:29:44,682.2508113 I think that you're full of stories like this, one of near, near failures, total successes and things in the middle of all of those. 254 00:29:44,742.2508113 --> 00:29:49,482.2508113 I wanted to talk a little bit more about, um, New York before we come back to, to Enos Aires. 255 00:29:49,482.2508113 --> 00:30:09,728.2508113 And I want us to talk about, about the work that you're doing now, uh, which is, which is still within the world of architecture, but BB before we go there, did you get involved in organizing work in New York? I know that now these days your, your work is very involved with neighborhood organizations, for example, but in New York, did you have some of that as well? No, no. 256 00:30:09,818.2508113 --> 00:30:10,718.2508113 Nothing like that. 257 00:30:10,838.2508113 --> 00:30:11,738.2508113 Nothing at all. 258 00:30:12,188.2508113 --> 00:30:12,908.2508113 Nothing at all. 259 00:30:12,968.2508113 --> 00:30:13,268.2508113 No. 260 00:30:13,328.2508113 --> 00:30:16,207.2508113 I just was very focused on, uh, I. 261 00:30:16,268.2508113 --> 00:30:17,408.2508113 making some money. 262 00:30:18,338.2508113 --> 00:30:25,148.2508113 I, and, uh, yes, um, uh, I was not involved in that at all. 263 00:30:25,162.2508113 --> 00:30:26,288.2508113 So when My wife. 264 00:30:26,762.2508113 --> 00:30:27,833.2508113 Oh, My wife did. 265 00:30:27,893.2508113 --> 00:30:36,683.2508113 Yes, she was, she was, um, she was part of a community and, uh, social workers and, and, uh, social action. 266 00:30:37,43.2508113 --> 00:30:39,53.2508113 Yeah, but not, not myself. 267 00:30:39,143.2508113 --> 00:30:39,623.2508113 Not at all. 268 00:30:39,752.2508113 --> 00:31:03,323.2508113 when did you get, take your first steps in the world of, of neighborhood organizing? Uh, pretty much when, um, like few years ago, like, let's say not even five, maybe three, three years ago when I joined, uh, Palermo Resist because of my neighbor that, um. 269 00:31:04,883.2508113 --> 00:31:14,3.2508113 Didn't know me very well, but she says, uh, she brought a paper that someone, some other, uh, neighbor, uh, put on under his door. 270 00:31:14,3.2508113 --> 00:31:14,603.2508113 Her door. 271 00:31:14,603.2508113 --> 00:31:17,423.2508113 And she said, you might be interested on that. 272 00:31:17,483.2508113 --> 00:31:18,923.2508113 I said, oh, yeah, yeah. 273 00:31:19,13.2508113 --> 00:31:19,373.2508113 Okay. 274 00:31:19,733.2508113 --> 00:31:44,333.2508113 So, uh, because they were, uh, against the, uh, uh, urbanistic code, uh, that I didn't know much about that, but, um, I started feeling after the pandemic, uh, I started feeling that, uh, in Palermo, uh, buildings were, uh, growing up and I didn't like that. 275 00:31:45,443.2508113 --> 00:31:49,163.2508113 Uh, so I got involved in that organization. 276 00:31:49,523.2508113 --> 00:31:58,43.2508113 Uh, so that was my first, um, step on, on being on, on, uh, uh, social organization. 277 00:31:58,477.2508113 --> 00:32:02,128.2508113 And what was your role there when you first got involved? So you said, Hey, so you I. 278 00:32:02,157.2508113 --> 00:32:14,918.2508113 to a meeting, or how did you start getting involved there? Well, there were, um, there were, uh, some in that group were some commissions that work. 279 00:32:15,248.2508113 --> 00:32:27,8.2508113 One of them, uh, used to be, I mean, still there, um, fighting against, uh, noise in this, in the, in, in, in the neighborhood. 280 00:32:27,368.2508113 --> 00:32:49,478.2508113 Other ones were in charge of fighting against this, uh, uh, public, uh, occupation by private, uh, people like the decks that are in the streets, uh, using parking place or just bothering people for 24 7 since they use it few hours a week. 281 00:32:50,258.2508113 --> 00:32:55,898.2508113 Um, and they were out of, uh, rule and they're still there. 282 00:32:55,958.2508113 --> 00:32:57,8.2508113 I mean, that. 283 00:32:59,228.2508113 --> 00:33:06,428.2508113 At the pandemic, that was okay because you could, you could not be inside, uh, a place because of that. 284 00:33:06,818.2508113 --> 00:33:15,518.2508113 But after the EMIA was gone, uh, they keep, the places not even keep, but put more. 285 00:33:15,818.2508113 --> 00:33:19,238.2508113 I mean, they, they, they keep growing those places. 286 00:33:19,238.2508113 --> 00:33:21,368.2508113 That was another commission in this Palermo ed. 287 00:33:22,328.2508113 --> 00:33:47,228.2508113 And at the very beginning, I, since I am an architect and kind of, uh, uh, interested on, on spaces and urbanism, um, I got involved in the, uh, we, we made a, um, a law project in order to, to stop building inside the neighbors. 288 00:33:47,798.2508113 --> 00:33:48,518.2508113 Um. 289 00:33:49,358.2508113 --> 00:34:06,668.2508113 Since there are lots of spaces on the avenues that surrounded, like, let's say here in SC Cordova, there are lots, lots of places that you can build a tower or, or a, or a big building. 290 00:34:07,88.2508113 --> 00:34:40,538.2508113 But, uh, since they are very expensive, they allowed, uh, the investors to build inside the neighbors, like close to the, uh, Cortes, uh, square or everywhere that, where there was, uh, old houses, one story, maybe two, but all houses that are, are within the, the, the identity of the neighbor that is, I wouldn't say yet gone, but is that we are losing that. 291 00:34:40,688.2508113 --> 00:34:46,868.2508113 We are losing that, uh, just to, uh, for the, for the, um. 292 00:34:48,338.2508113 --> 00:34:53,798.2508113 Real estate, uh, developers make more money only for that. 293 00:34:54,278.2508113 --> 00:34:55,118.2508113 Only for that. 294 00:34:56,648.2508113 --> 00:35:02,288.2508113 So that, that is no improvement, no development, not real development. 295 00:35:02,888.2508113 --> 00:35:13,508.2508113 We, we, we start going to this, uh, magic world, uh, development, which, um, they call it development. 296 00:35:13,568.2508113 --> 00:35:26,888.2508113 But development is, I mean, you can, you can talk about urban development or real estate development, which are quite against each other. 297 00:35:27,428.2508113 --> 00:35:43,718.2508113 I mean, for me, development of a city is having more squares, more green space, more, uh, bringing up the quality of life of, uh, the, the inhabitants, the citizens. 298 00:35:44,783.2508113 --> 00:35:59,483.2508113 This doesn't even, some people says, well, but we need to, um, uh, improve to, to get more, more places, uh, for people, uh, to come to the city or to live in the city. 299 00:35:59,873.2508113 --> 00:36:00,713.2508113 That's not true. 300 00:36:00,953.2508113 --> 00:36:01,793.2508113 That's not true. 301 00:36:02,423.2508113 --> 00:36:06,383.2508113 Uh, big percentage of what they are building is not occupied. 302 00:36:06,383.2508113 --> 00:36:09,173.2508113 No can, nobody can afford that. 303 00:36:09,713.2508113 --> 00:36:28,643.2508113 And that is only for people that has some money and wants to do something with their money and bringing money from outside the country and put it in bricks in a neighborhood where the, the people, we are suffering that, and this is not for. 304 00:36:29,648.2508113 --> 00:36:31,268.2508113 2, 5, 10 years. 305 00:36:31,778.2508113 --> 00:36:42,788.2508113 This is a process that will take 50 or a hundred years and will never get to what they think is a good city with no squares. 306 00:36:42,818.2508113 --> 00:37:18,68.2508113 No, I mean, if you see the, the, uh, the images that, uh, the um, uh, the Secretary of Development, I'm telling this is the Secretary of Development that, uh, runs an area in the government city, in the city government that, uh, used to be the, um, the Secretary of Urban Planning, urban Planning. 307 00:37:19,508.2508113 --> 00:37:22,538.2508113 Then even the name of that secretary Change. 308 00:37:22,718.2508113 --> 00:37:25,268.2508113 There is no urban planning anymore. 309 00:37:25,328.2508113 --> 00:37:27,38.2508113 This is development. 310 00:37:28,523.2508113 --> 00:37:32,633.2508113 But it's fake because it is real estate development. 311 00:37:32,663.2508113 --> 00:37:34,523.2508113 It's not even urban development. 312 00:37:34,542.2508113 --> 00:37:39,72.2508113 has been the game plan, the strategy in Palermo? Palermo resists. 313 00:37:39,102.2508113 --> 00:37:46,932.2508113 What has been, how do you guys challenge this? Flawed notion of, of development, and it's very, um, successful efforts. 314 00:37:46,932.2508113 --> 00:37:49,752.2508113 Sometimes I'm looking at one right now outside of my house. 315 00:37:49,962.2508113 --> 00:37:55,752.2508113 Uh, there's a, there's a building under construction right across the street where there was one, so a one or two story. 316 00:37:56,22.2508113 --> 00:38:03,822.2508113 Uh, it was a two story house that was abandoned, but that does not mean that just because it was abandoned, we have to build a tower there. 317 00:38:04,122.2508113 --> 00:38:08,262.2508113 Um, it was a beautiful structure actually, and I think some nice stuff could have come of it. 318 00:38:08,442.2508113 --> 00:38:08,862.2508113 But anyway. 319 00:38:08,862.2508113 --> 00:38:24,593.2508113 What is, what has been the game plan, uh, in general for Bara? How, or, or if, if it's not one that's been employed or used, how do you resist this? Well, the resistance was not, um, a very strong. 320 00:38:25,643.2508113 --> 00:38:40,313.2508113 And the way we did that is by, uh, making, uh, a law that then, um, every, I mean not everyone, but uh, many neighborhoods has the same problem. 321 00:38:41,423.2508113 --> 00:38:57,143.2508113 And each one of them made a, a law project to go to the legis, uh, legislature, um, in order to, not to stop, but to make it, uh, lower. 322 00:38:57,863.2508113 --> 00:39:13,733.2508113 The, uh, what the, the new, uh, urbanistic code allowed investors to do? Uh, some neighbors, uh, got, uh, a good answer. 323 00:39:13,733.2508113 --> 00:39:28,43.2508113 I mean, they pass, uh, part of the law, I mean, those different laws that from every neighborhood goes to one, uh, law that, um, was discussed in the register. 324 00:39:28,463.2508113 --> 00:39:32,603.2508113 How do you say legislator? Uh, legislator. 325 00:39:33,743.2508113 --> 00:39:34,553.2508113 Um. 326 00:39:38,228.2508113 --> 00:40:02,498.2508113 From my point of view, I mean, for, for example, Ali, uh, got something quite important there, but every other neighborhood didn't, I mean, we might have lower, a little bit the height of some buildings inside the neighborhood, but, uh, that is not enough at all. 327 00:40:02,528.2508113 --> 00:40:05,138.2508113 That is very little from my point of view. 328 00:40:05,948.2508113 --> 00:40:11,588.2508113 Um, so that was the, the, the way to resist, to resist. 329 00:40:11,858.2508113 --> 00:40:32,318.2508113 And, um, now we are trying to get, uh, something done about the noise, about the, uh, uh, the, the, the, the green, uh, places and, uh, the, the, the, um, taking of, uh, uh, public space in the streets. 330 00:40:32,768.2508113 --> 00:40:34,208.2508113 But we're not getting anywhere. 331 00:40:34,208.2508113 --> 00:40:35,887.2508113 I mean, It. 332 00:40:36,128.2508113 --> 00:40:36,548.2508113 things. 333 00:40:37,298.2508113 --> 00:40:38,168.2508113 Happening. 334 00:40:38,258.2508113 --> 00:40:39,818.2508113 Like, uh, nothing happens. 335 00:40:40,478.2508113 --> 00:40:43,778.2508113 And Pembro sister is now, I mean, I'm still there. 336 00:40:44,828.2508113 --> 00:40:55,778.2508113 Um, sometimes, I mean, they are meaning on the WhatsApp, uh, group, but there are no, no meetings, no no commissions working. 337 00:40:56,468.2508113 --> 00:41:11,523.2508113 Um, I guess it's because it's incredibly dispiriting to, to perform this work and to fight for these causes, but to have these business interests sort of bulldoze over over these Yeah. 338 00:41:11,712.2508113 --> 00:41:22,163.2508113 uh, how do you even address something like noise? Um, how, what, what were, what ideas did you guys have to, to counter that? Well, uh, we keep complaining. 339 00:41:22,163.2508113 --> 00:41:26,273.2508113 We do some, uh, media, um, noise. 340 00:41:27,173.2508113 --> 00:41:33,83.2508113 Um, uh, sometimes, uh, individually. 341 00:41:33,443.2508113 --> 00:41:44,843.2508113 Some people in, in, in that commission complains within a, um, there is a way that you can ask the city to do something. 342 00:41:44,903.2508113 --> 00:41:46,313.2508113 It's, uh, organic. 343 00:41:47,123.2508113 --> 00:41:54,368.2508113 But, uh, that is, uh, I don't know if I can say the word bullshit, uh, in this conversation. 344 00:41:54,477.2508113 --> 00:41:55,377.2508113 this context. 345 00:41:56,243.2508113 --> 00:41:57,143.2508113 Uh, yeah. 346 00:41:57,263.2508113 --> 00:41:59,678.2508113 Um, for example. 347 00:42:01,673.2508113 --> 00:42:03,563.2508113 I mean, I, I was complaining. 348 00:42:03,623.2508113 --> 00:42:09,83.2508113 I mean, I, I have never done that because I'm not good at, at doing, uh, internet stuff. 349 00:42:09,143.2508113 --> 00:42:19,43.2508113 But that is, there is, or there is a number that you can call and, but the, uh, they give you options, for example, about trees in the street. 350 00:42:19,103.2508113 --> 00:42:31,283.2508113 We are, I'm tired of fighting with people that are cutting big branch of a tree because a building next to it has to build their balconies. 351 00:42:32,603.2508113 --> 00:42:41,333.2508113 I said, excuse me, this tree is here for a hundred years and you are damaging the tree for something that you are going to build next. 352 00:42:42,203.2508113 --> 00:42:46,973.2508113 Sometimes they cut a big branch, but sometimes they cut, they cut the whole tree. 353 00:42:47,783.2508113 --> 00:42:54,413.2508113 And many times they are illegal because they are not even authorized by, uh, by anyone. 354 00:42:54,727.2508113 --> 00:42:55,763.2508113 I have to So, uh. 355 00:42:55,792.2508113 --> 00:43:21,832.2508113 something with you from, from this morning, um, I was, I was returning home around, around nine, nine or nine 30 in the morning, and there was a, um, a team of, frankly, I didn't want to see what they were doing, but there was a team of, of people climbed up in the tree and I believe they were removing branches from an area where there were some power lines and they had, you know, some caution tape around the area so that branch wouldn't fall in your head. 356 00:43:22,192.2508113 --> 00:43:23,572.2508113 So that's the worst thing that can happen. 357 00:43:24,432.2508113 --> 00:43:33,192.2508113 I, I know that in our groups, you know, in our, in our neighborhood groups, we, we denounce these, um, tree slaughters when they're occurring. 358 00:43:33,492.2508113 --> 00:43:46,662.2508113 And at the same time, whenever that has happened in our group chats, to use the word dispiriting, it's incredibly dispiriting to notice that there's so little that can be done right now when we notice it. 359 00:43:46,662.2508113 --> 00:43:53,172.2508113 So we, we will post about it and then it's like a collective mourning about what has occurred or what is occurring. 360 00:43:53,352.2508113 --> 00:43:55,62.2508113 And that is, there's value in that. 361 00:43:55,62.2508113 --> 00:44:02,142.2508113 I, I understand that there's value in the mourning of the process, in the resisting, even if, if the resistance is, if an unfruitful. 362 00:44:02,232.2508113 --> 00:44:05,382.2508113 So there's value in that, but at the same time it's, it's just incredibly saddening. 363 00:44:05,622.2508113 --> 00:44:06,882.2508113 So I didn't, I didn't share anything. 364 00:44:06,882.2508113 --> 00:44:12,703.2508113 I didn't say anything in the groups because, ugh, you know what? Yeah. 365 00:44:12,848.2508113 --> 00:44:13,268.2508113 Yeah. 366 00:44:13,298.2508113 --> 00:44:21,188.2508113 I mean, and, and the way that, uh, it is set up this, uh, uh, channels, uh, to complain or whatever, you have options. 367 00:44:21,218.2508113 --> 00:44:31,478.2508113 And the, one of the first option is to ask the city to catch a tree or to, uh, to, to cut branches. 368 00:44:31,868.2508113 --> 00:44:38,258.2508113 But, uh, there is, there is no option saying, uh, here should be a tree. 369 00:44:38,288.2508113 --> 00:44:39,158.2508113 And there is none. 370 00:44:39,968.2508113 --> 00:44:43,658.2508113 And here, uh, used to be a tree and it's gone. 371 00:44:44,348.2508113 --> 00:44:45,968.2508113 That is not an option. 372 00:44:46,658.2508113 --> 00:44:50,558.2508113 So in order to change that, it's a long way to go. 373 00:44:50,648.2508113 --> 00:44:52,688.2508113 It's a very long way to go. 374 00:44:52,702.2508113 --> 00:44:58,197.2508113 I wanted to talk a little bit about affordable housing before we move into the, the project that we're both involved in. 375 00:44:58,467.2508113 --> 00:45:05,937.2508113 Um, you mentioned, mentioned that the, one of the biggest arguments for this construction is that it creates new housing. 376 00:45:05,937.2508113 --> 00:45:11,457.2508113 And we, we both know that it's a bit preposterous that argument because the housing is incredibly expensive. 377 00:45:11,457.2508113 --> 00:45:19,287.2508113 They're mostly luxury homes that are being built or homes that are outside the price range of the families that, that once inhabited these neighborhoods. 378 00:45:19,557.2508113 --> 00:45:24,57.2508113 Um, they're not neighborhood homes, right? They're, they're, for a different population. 379 00:45:25,767.2508113 --> 00:45:28,857.2508113 I, I know that this is not the solution to that problem. 380 00:45:28,917.2508113 --> 00:45:36,987.2508113 You know, building these towers is not the solution, but it is, it is it not at the same time, true that we do need to build homes and we do need to build towers. 381 00:45:38,588.2508113 --> 00:45:39,503.2508113 Uh, no. 382 00:45:39,803.2508113 --> 00:45:41,663.2508113 I mean, we don't need that. 383 00:45:41,783.2508113 --> 00:45:47,393.2508113 Uh, and we cannot afford to do that anymore because there is a, um. 384 00:45:48,548.2508113 --> 00:45:57,638.2508113 Uh, it, it should be an equilibrium between, uh, number of people and number of square footage, green square footage. 385 00:45:58,628.2508113 --> 00:46:09,608.2508113 Um, so, um, first of all, there are a lot of, um. 386 00:46:11,18.2508113 --> 00:46:19,58.2508113 Of housing, uh, available that are not occupied because no one can afford that. 387 00:46:19,658.2508113 --> 00:46:21,488.2508113 You mentioned affordable housing. 388 00:46:22,718.2508113 --> 00:46:36,818.2508113 For who? For the people that every day, I mean, bueno say has 3 million people, but another 3 million people come back and forth every single day wasting four or five hours of their time. 389 00:46:37,598.2508113 --> 00:46:53,168.2508113 And, uh, using, um, uh, transportation that brings all kind of pollution, noise and gas to the atmosphere and to the people that le lives in, the people in, in the city. 390 00:46:53,438.2508113 --> 00:47:04,688.2508113 Uh, that, um, you think, well, maybe if we double the population of ba um, these people that are coming back and forth. 391 00:47:05,723.2508113 --> 00:47:08,273.2508113 Are gonna be in BA, they don't have to travel. 392 00:47:08,363.2508113 --> 00:47:09,293.2508113 That's not true. 393 00:47:10,103.2508113 --> 00:47:27,473.2508113 First of all, the problem of, uh, people in being in Buenos Aires in houses that are not, uh, real houses, I mean on all the villages, um, this is not a problem that the city can fix. 394 00:47:27,863.2508113 --> 00:47:37,823.2508113 This is a problem of the whole country because, uh, people come to BA because in their own places, in their own provinces, they don't have a job. 395 00:47:38,3.2508113 --> 00:47:40,43.2508113 They cannot afford to live there. 396 00:47:40,493.2508113 --> 00:47:54,563.2508113 And they think many times it's not, it's not real that in the city, we, they will have a job and many of them do have a job, but cannot afford to live in the city, but lives in the suburbs. 397 00:47:55,73.2508113 --> 00:47:58,403.2508113 So, spend five hours a day going back and forth. 398 00:48:00,83.2508113 --> 00:48:16,853.2508113 So the, the affordable housing is, um, I, I, I don't know exactly, uh, what, uh, could help the city for that, but, uh, I do believe that is not, it's a national problem. 399 00:48:16,883.2508113 --> 00:48:27,203.2508113 It's not a problem that you can fix within the city and keep building this, uh, new housing that is not affordable. 400 00:48:27,743.2508113 --> 00:48:29,873.2508113 Um, it's not fixing that. 401 00:48:30,683.2508113 --> 00:48:31,673.2508113 It's not fixing that. 402 00:48:32,63.2508113 --> 00:48:44,873.2508113 And it's not even fixing, I mean, it's destroying the city because they are against the number of square footage, uh, green square footage for, I mean, this is a, a formula. 403 00:48:44,873.2508113 --> 00:48:45,743.2508113 Very simple. 404 00:48:46,43.2508113 --> 00:48:56,483.2508113 If you are talking about, um, five, let's say five square foot, green, square foot per inhabitant, if you. 405 00:48:57,653.2508113 --> 00:49:03,443.2508113 Grow the A number of inheritance, that equation goes worse. 406 00:49:04,622.2508113 --> 00:49:05,102.2508113 Totally. 407 00:49:05,153.2508113 --> 00:49:05,543.2508113 that is. 408 00:49:05,882.2508113 --> 00:49:28,622.2508113 I, I'm voicing these concerns in the spirit of inquiry and in order to understand the issue a little bit better myself, uh, because I have been convinced in the past by arguments in favor of dense urban living as a solution to human sprawl and human occupation of, of, of territory, of, of, of earth's land. 409 00:49:28,712.2508113 --> 00:49:33,932.2508113 Right? Uh, in, in, in a way, it's part of what drew me to Enos Aires and to a large city. 410 00:49:33,932.2508113 --> 00:49:35,162.2508113 For the first time in my life, I. 411 00:49:35,472.2508113 --> 00:49:47,577.2508113 A, a place where, where folks are very condensed and living in a, in, in high, um, high settings, meaning In order to occupy less land. 412 00:49:47,577.2508113 --> 00:49:58,857.2508113 And I'm, I'm contrasting this obviously with, with us suburbs and, and with us sprawl, which is what I grew up around and what I found very like, like also not the solution. 413 00:49:58,857.2508113 --> 00:50:21,267.2508113 I think that there's maybe a way in which you achieve that five square feet of, of green space per individual with the concept of the front and the back lawn, right? But we both, we, we know that that's also not the solution because it creates these huge, huge, huge metropolis that require cars, require taking over even more territory require highways. 414 00:50:21,417.2508113 --> 00:50:30,987.2508113 So I'm, I'm wondering, like I've been, I've been convinced by the argument that we're really, what we need is to have really tall urban centers and there and around it to have green space. 415 00:50:31,197.2508113 --> 00:50:36,327.2508113 And, and I know we're now gonna talk a little bit more about this project that we're creating to have an urban park in the city. 416 00:50:36,327.2508113 --> 00:50:40,617.2508113 But I wanted to run that by you because I have been convinced by that argument before. 417 00:50:41,753.2508113 --> 00:50:43,103.2508113 Well, yes, you are. 418 00:50:43,163.2508113 --> 00:50:44,573.2508113 You are a hundred percent right. 419 00:50:44,603.2508113 --> 00:51:08,33.2508113 And I do have a, uh, project, uh, used to be in my mind, but it also used to be in our dining table in Manhattan for weeks and month because I built that, uh, that city that you are talking about, uh, on a, on a model, uh, on a, uh, and I agree a hundred percent with you. 420 00:51:08,363.2508113 --> 00:51:14,153.2508113 Uh, tall buildings are not bad because they allowed the sun to go to go around. 421 00:51:14,393.2508113 --> 00:51:21,653.2508113 They are bad if they are all together, but if you have one here, one there, and surrounded by, by green space, that is the model. 422 00:51:21,893.2508113 --> 00:51:29,393.2508113 I call it the, um, um, model of, uh, territory occupation. 423 00:51:29,462.2508113 --> 00:51:30,222.2508113 That's beautiful. 424 00:51:30,263.2508113 --> 00:51:30,563.2508113 Uh. 425 00:51:30,912.2508113 --> 00:51:32,262.2508113 the diagram in my head right now. 426 00:51:32,262.2508113 --> 00:51:38,168.2508113 I'm imagining like one tall building and then descending buildings of, of height around it Yeah. 427 00:51:38,288.2508113 --> 00:51:38,708.2508113 Yeah. 428 00:51:38,828.2508113 --> 00:51:47,858.2508113 And also that you can build that by taking care of the nature that surrounded you, especially the sun, where the sun is coming from. 429 00:51:47,858.2508113 --> 00:52:08,588.2508113 So you, you, you, you show your better windows to that place, not as the urban code, uh, urbanistic code that we have now that all the corners, uh, has the same, um, regulation for, uh, uh, for height and for, um, uh, graduate the top. 430 00:52:09,728.2508113 --> 00:52:15,278.2508113 But some of them get the sun from some somewhere, and some of them get the sun from the other side. 431 00:52:15,518.2508113 --> 00:52:17,528.2508113 So they, they don't care about that. 432 00:52:17,558.2508113 --> 00:52:24,938.2508113 I mean, they're all equal because it's too difficult to say, well, this corner has to be this way and this corner has to be this other way. 433 00:52:25,388.2508113 --> 00:52:26,258.2508113 But, um. 434 00:52:28,553.2508113 --> 00:52:48,533.2508113 That have, uh, said, uh, I, I would like to discuss with you maybe out of the, uh, the interview this, uh, model of, um, of territory occupation, because I see we are a hundred percent on the same, um, on the same, uh, wave. 435 00:52:49,73.2508113 --> 00:53:01,73.2508113 And, uh, let me tell you, going back to this neighborhoods, uh, in the suburbs of, uh, of big cities like New York, people commute every day by cars. 436 00:53:02,288.2508113 --> 00:53:05,648.2508113 Miles and miles and they leave. 437 00:53:05,708.2508113 --> 00:53:14,888.2508113 Yes, they leave, leave because most of their time they're in the city working, but they go to sleep, at least in a nice neighborhood. 438 00:53:14,888.2508113 --> 00:53:15,398.2508113 No noisy. 439 00:53:16,58.2508113 --> 00:53:17,348.2508113 Uh uh. 440 00:53:17,408.2508113 --> 00:53:28,388.2508113 But, uh, when you forget, uh, the butter, uh, that you need for, for breakfast, you have to take the car and go like a mile away to a shopping center to buy the batter. 441 00:53:28,868.2508113 --> 00:53:49,838.2508113 Uh, so, but um, also that kind of distribution, that kind of model of territory occupation takes lots of land from being green absorbent, uh, with trees to get a roof. 442 00:53:49,988.2508113 --> 00:53:52,748.2508113 If you have a roof here, another here, another here, another here. 443 00:53:52,988.2508113 --> 00:53:58,153.2508113 That is, uh, like Imper Impermeability. 444 00:53:59,227.2508113 --> 00:53:59,307.2508113 Hmm. 445 00:54:00,42.2508113 --> 00:54:04,133.2508113 Oh, that's a good Make it, um, um, Oh, not permeable. 446 00:54:04,632.2508113 --> 00:54:06,983.2508113 Do you mean rainproof, Yeah. 447 00:54:07,103.2508113 --> 00:54:07,523.2508113 Yeah. 448 00:54:07,913.2508113 --> 00:54:23,3.2508113 Each roof is a, is a rainproof, but if you have one above the other one you have just one roof, one roof here, and everything around is green and absorbent and, and with trees. 449 00:54:23,63.2508113 --> 00:54:43,283.2508113 And, uh, not only, not only that in my project, there is, uh, you can even grow vegetables at, at, uh, 300 yards from your house and maybe your own vegetables that you walk three, three blocks and you have your fresh vegetable for tonight for the salad. 450 00:54:44,213.2508113 --> 00:54:52,523.2508113 So, uh, there are many, many other things, uh, about installations, about recycling, about the way that you take care of the land. 451 00:54:52,677.2508113 --> 00:54:56,877.2508113 Yeah, so this is ter, the model of territory occupation will bookmark it. 452 00:54:57,327.2508113 --> 00:55:00,837.2508113 It's more, it feels like more of a utopian dream for now. 453 00:55:01,737.2508113 --> 00:55:02,788.2508113 maybe, Okay. 454 00:55:03,267.2508113 --> 00:55:07,768.2508113 but Yeah, something that's more tangible and realistic that we're working on right now. 455 00:55:08,457.2508113 --> 00:55:22,118.2508113 Which is, um, to create an urban park, an urban forest, very in, in the heart of bmo, really close yeah, uh, yeah, some of the avenues that you were just naming, and a territory that is currently unoccupied, a territory exactly. 456 00:55:22,227.2508113 --> 00:55:22,947.2508113 been abandoned. 457 00:55:23,217.2508113 --> 00:55:28,407.2508113 This is, this is a, a, a project that hasn't been part of your mission for a while. 458 00:55:28,407.2508113 --> 00:55:33,357.2508113 I joined the effort in, in, you know, in the last, uh, last, late last year. 459 00:55:34,227.2508113 --> 00:55:42,83.2508113 How did you get involved with this, and why is it something that's so important to you right now? Well, the first thing that, um. 460 00:55:43,463.2508113 --> 00:55:58,223.2508113 Um, attracted to me is that I was in the, uh, within Palermo Resist, I was in the commission that was in charge of writing the, the, um, the law project for Palermo. 461 00:55:58,973.2508113 --> 00:56:21,263.2508113 And we have the, um, advice of, uh, one of the, um, uh, register, uh, advisors, uh, that, uh, told us that, uh, the, the neighborhood we should talk about is from Godo Cruz to, uh, CAEs and, uh, I mean. 462 00:56:22,223.2508113 --> 00:56:39,893.2508113 This, um, this railroad track was out of our, our law project in PAL System, and I discussed that I was completely against that, but the other five on the commission agreed with him. 463 00:56:40,313.2508113 --> 00:56:46,193.2508113 Actually, there was another one, uh, that thought like me, but the majority agree with that. 464 00:56:46,253.2508113 --> 00:56:48,443.2508113 Let's take this away. 465 00:56:48,653.2508113 --> 00:56:50,423.2508113 So I said, this is not good. 466 00:56:50,423.2508113 --> 00:56:57,323.2508113 I mean, this is the best place that we can, or the only place that we can make it green. 467 00:56:58,13.2508113 --> 00:57:09,953.2508113 So, and I joined another, um, another group of, uh, of neighbors named, um, Palermo, uh, neighbors for Palermo. 468 00:57:11,408.2508113 --> 00:57:21,308.2508113 That they were looking, they were looking at this for years, for, for 10 or 15 years, they were looking at this place that is abandoned completely. 469 00:57:22,568.2508113 --> 00:57:36,548.2508113 And it's the only place that can, um, feel this, uh, necessity of all that part of Palermo that needs desperately because they have none, none. 470 00:57:36,548.2508113 --> 00:57:37,508.2508113 Green space. 471 00:57:37,958.2508113 --> 00:57:42,68.2508113 You can say Palermo all, Palermo, all the communal. 472 00:57:42,248.2508113 --> 00:57:48,308.2508113 Uh, 14 has a lot of green space because you can talk about park rero. 473 00:57:48,968.2508113 --> 00:58:00,68.2508113 Uh, you can talk about the, the, uh, uh, the, the horse racing, uh, field, the polo field, the, uh, the airport. 474 00:58:00,248.2508113 --> 00:58:04,958.2508113 Uh, many, many, but they're all together in one part of Palermo. 475 00:58:05,22.2508113 --> 00:58:05,978.2508113 not Palermo. 476 00:58:06,792.2508113 --> 00:58:08,783.2508113 for most Exactly, exactly. 477 00:58:09,53.2508113 --> 00:58:15,773.2508113 So what we took, what we really need is, um, close, uh, green space. 478 00:58:16,133.2508113 --> 00:58:20,963.2508113 You cannot think about someone that lives in wabe, gusto and Cordova. 479 00:58:21,203.2508113 --> 00:58:29,547.2508113 Uh, a lady with a, with a two years old in a, in a, in a, uh, how you call the scroller, The stroller. 480 00:58:29,638.2508113 --> 00:58:39,923.2508113 the scroller, and another six years old, holding her hand, uh, walking to park is, is, is unthinkable. 481 00:58:40,253.2508113 --> 00:59:01,103.2508113 So, uh, we do need, and actually there are an international standards that say you need a green space up 300 yards from, or four at the most from your house and between Ciz and Dogo, well, not Dogo, but Baland. 482 00:59:01,343.2508113 --> 00:59:02,573.2508113 It is a big space. 483 00:59:02,633.2508113 --> 00:59:04,553.2508113 It's a big, I can tell you there are. 484 00:59:06,233.2508113 --> 00:59:12,623.2508113 20, what we call, um, uh, sense radios. 485 00:59:13,793.2508113 --> 00:59:24,923.2508113 There is a, a way to measure the, uh, the amount of populations, uh, that are in a, in a, uh, piece of land, uh, which are the, the sense radios. 486 00:59:24,983.2508113 --> 00:59:35,663.2508113 They have, uh, uh, 1500, uh, inhabitants in each sense radius around this, uh, railroad track. 487 00:59:35,903.2508113 --> 00:59:40,913.2508113 There are 20 of them, which means 30,000 people. 488 00:59:42,143.2508113 --> 00:59:43,613.2508113 30,000 people. 489 00:59:44,603.2508113 --> 00:59:46,643.2508113 They don't have a green space. 490 00:59:46,943.2508113 --> 00:59:47,303.2508113 Zero. 491 00:59:48,293.2508113 --> 00:59:48,803.2508113 Zero. 492 00:59:49,553.2508113 --> 00:59:51,23.2508113 I have a, a green space. 493 00:59:51,113.2508113 --> 01:00:03,353.2508113 Like it's a, a lot, like it's 30, uh, 300, uh, 300 square meters that it solves the problem of the next building, just one building next to it. 494 01:00:03,413.2508113 --> 01:00:04,643.2508113 I mean, for 20 people. 495 01:00:04,793.2508113 --> 01:00:06,323.2508113 I mean, there's nothing. 496 01:00:06,808.2508113 --> 01:00:15,83.2508113 Uh, and, and, and besides that, there, there are very, very, very tiny, uh, little, uh, uh, green spaces. 497 01:00:16,43.2508113 --> 01:00:26,93.2508113 So, uh, this is the last resource that this part of the city I'm talking about Palermo Viejo, what we call Palermo Hollywood or Palermo soho. 498 01:00:26,483.2508113 --> 01:00:32,243.2508113 Um, that has none, uh, uh, green spaces. 499 01:00:32,933.2508113 --> 01:00:41,153.2508113 So, um, yes, I got very, and I live within, within that, uh, that uh, uh, polygon. 500 01:00:41,813.2508113 --> 01:00:43,163.2508113 So, um. 501 01:00:43,207.2508113 --> 01:00:49,87.2508113 polygon, but you've also spoken to me about how you are not expecting, and this is, I'm using your words. 502 01:00:49,87.2508113 --> 01:00:52,357.2508113 I would never have an idea like this, but you're not expecting to see this park. 503 01:00:53,213.2508113 --> 01:00:53,903.2508113 Of course not. 504 01:00:53,963.2508113 --> 01:00:54,713.2508113 Of course not. 505 01:00:54,773.2508113 --> 01:00:56,93.2508113 I mean, this takes time. 506 01:00:56,93.2508113 --> 01:01:01,493.2508113 I'm 73 already, and, uh, well, but that is part of my nature. 507 01:01:01,493.2508113 --> 01:01:14,513.2508113 I mean, uh, I'm not fighting for me, I'm fighting for the society or my neighbors or, or, or humanity, whatever, uh, is not, uh, yes, uh, you are, you are. 508 01:01:14,513.2508113 --> 01:01:14,783.2508113 Right. 509 01:01:14,813.2508113 --> 01:01:35,903.2508113 I mean, uh, I have been in many, um, reunions that the, the, the, the governor has called and I've heard, and even in Peral City, I've heard neighbors that says, I'm here because they're building a building next to my house and I don't want to lose the sun or whatever. 510 01:01:36,863.2508113 --> 01:01:38,513.2508113 Okay, that's your problem. 511 01:01:38,513.2508113 --> 01:01:45,173.2508113 But there are many other problems within, uh, the, the, the, the neighborhood that should, you should address. 512 01:01:45,203.2508113 --> 01:01:48,113.2508113 And many people doesn't have that kind of thinking. 513 01:01:48,743.2508113 --> 01:01:54,83.2508113 Uh, I'm not doing this, not even for my family because my, my daughter lives in Uruguay. 514 01:01:54,83.2508113 --> 01:01:56,453.2508113 My son lives in, in far away in the city. 515 01:01:56,603.2508113 --> 01:02:23,933.2508113 They, they will never see this, uh, not even me, but, uh, I feel like something has to be done and I'm encouraging, uh, the neighbors around or not around because this is not only for Palermo, but uh, and this is not only for a park, this is also for people to understand that if you do something, you can get something. 516 01:02:24,713.2508113 --> 01:02:27,923.2508113 But if you stay home, you are not gonna get anything. 517 01:02:28,823.2508113 --> 01:02:30,743.2508113 That is part of my view. 518 01:02:31,337.2508113 --> 01:02:31,882.2508113 I love that. 519 01:02:31,972.2508113 --> 01:02:34,162.2508113 It's part of what drew me to the project too. 520 01:02:34,162.2508113 --> 01:02:36,652.2508113 I mean, I, I, I told you the other day. 521 01:02:37,102.2508113 --> 01:02:43,642.2508113 When we were having, um, our, I think it was, we were having a meeting among, among those of us involved. 522 01:02:43,672.2508113 --> 01:02:48,862.2508113 And I said, I spoke about how you recruited me, um, in a way to, to the project. 523 01:02:49,192.2508113 --> 01:02:52,702.2508113 And you weren't, I don't think you were, you, maybe you were impending to recruit me. 524 01:02:52,702.2508113 --> 01:02:53,62.2508113 I don't know. 525 01:02:53,842.2508113 --> 01:03:07,882.2508113 I would love to know how, how do you think that the organization has grown so much in the last few months? 'cause it's, it's, it's really has, and you said it was born like 10 or 15 years ago, the idea, and that's certainly correct, but over the last year it's exploded in, in interest and in popularity. 526 01:03:07,882.2508113 --> 01:03:11,633.2508113 Why now? Well, I don't know. 527 01:03:11,633.2508113 --> 01:03:12,203.2508113 I don't know. 528 01:03:12,263.2508113 --> 01:03:31,703.2508113 I believe a big part of that is that, uh, we recruited people like you that are active and are willing to do something, and, and they are, uh, a number of, of guys and, and, uh, young people because the, the people are fighting this for 15 years. 529 01:03:32,513.2508113 --> 01:03:41,303.2508113 They are all old like me or even older, and they do very little steps here and there. 530 01:03:41,603.2508113 --> 01:03:44,303.2508113 Uh, but they are, they cannot, uh. 531 01:03:45,303.2508113 --> 01:03:49,113.2508113 They cannot take, uh, a keep, uh, an Instagram, for example. 532 01:03:49,173.2508113 --> 01:03:59,897.2508113 None of us know how to deal with that, uh, or, or going every other weekend to the, to the square, uh, to, to, to Canvas. 533 01:04:00,123.2508113 --> 01:04:05,433.2508113 recruit more people and to inform and to, uh, make this massive, I don't know. 534 01:04:05,493.2508113 --> 01:04:38,433.2508113 But, um, in the last few months, uh, yes, umdo, um, has, uh, grow a lot, not only in a number of people, but in organization, not, we have, um, like teams that are working on those and on events, new events, um, or, um, or in press, uh, um, for media and stuff. 535 01:04:38,463.2508113 --> 01:04:40,743.2508113 And that is growing. 536 01:04:40,743.2508113 --> 01:04:41,223.2508113 I hope. 537 01:04:41,223.2508113 --> 01:04:42,3.2508113 I mean, I. 538 01:04:43,778.2508113 --> 01:05:06,368.2508113 I still have some energy to keep, uh, this going, but I don't know how, how longer I, I I can, I can afford to, to put all my energy I having, I'm having stuff postponed from my own home and my family, uh, and I don't know how, how much I can afford that. 539 01:05:06,428.2508113 --> 01:05:18,938.2508113 And so I, I hope somebody, I mean, there are already people that are taking this on their own ho hands and, um, I hope it keeps growing and going somewhere. 540 01:05:19,492.2508113 --> 01:05:19,972.2508113 Totally. 541 01:05:21,142.2508113 --> 01:05:59,558.2508113 I know that we have to start wrapping up, but I would love to ask you just, you know, as a closing question, how do you think we can be better neighbors to each other? Well, I think, um, a good thing is, um, to listen to each other and, um, finding whatever we have in common and talk about that and, and keep going about that and leave for later. 542 01:06:00,263.2508113 --> 01:06:02,123.2508113 Or forever, whatever. 543 01:06:02,153.2508113 --> 01:06:04,43.2508113 We are not agreeing on. 544 01:06:04,643.2508113 --> 01:06:11,903.2508113 We, we cannot agree on many things, but we can, we, we, we can agree in many other things. 545 01:06:11,963.2508113 --> 01:06:13,373.2508113 So let's work on that. 546 01:06:13,973.2508113 --> 01:06:23,123.2508113 Um, this, uh, this group is one of the, I think one of the secrets, uh, for this to keep growing is because of that we listen to each other. 547 01:06:23,573.2508113 --> 01:06:33,923.2508113 We, uh, we talk about, uh, what we want and on, on what we agree, and we don't talk about what, on what we don't. 548 01:06:36,203.2508113 --> 01:06:38,993.2508113 I think that is part of, of the secret. 549 01:06:39,512.2508113 --> 01:06:52,622.2508113 I appreciate that you, you, you're right that one of the principles that organizes us is that we're nonpartisan and we, uh, we try to not delve into too, too much of the, of the party politics, of, of the matter. 550 01:06:52,682.2508113 --> 01:06:55,82.2508113 Um, and it's definitely been something that's, that's united us. 551 01:06:55,82.2508113 --> 01:06:58,592.2508113 I'm really thankful for this time to sit with you and to talk. 552 01:06:58,862.2508113 --> 01:07:14,282.2508113 I feel like often we're rushing to towards some sort of activity or event or meeting, and it's nice to just hear also about, um, your background beyond this, this project, which obviously is, is in so, so much a part of your path, um, to this moment. 553 01:07:14,282.2508113 --> 01:07:15,482.2508113 So thank you so much. 554 01:07:16,568.2508113 --> 01:07:16,858.2508113 Okay. 555 01:07:16,883.2508113 --> 01:07:17,513.2508113 Thank you. 556 01:07:17,513.2508113 --> 01:07:18,113.2508113 Thank you. 557 01:07:18,113.2508113 --> 01:07:24,323.2508113 I, I love talking to you and, uh, uh, there are lots of things that, uh, we didn't talk yet. 558 01:07:24,803.2508113 --> 01:07:26,573.2508113 Uh, I hope we have the chance. 559 01:07:26,573.2508113 --> 01:07:27,293.2508113 Yes, of course. 560 01:07:27,293.2508113 --> 01:07:29,453.2508113 We are gonna have the chance to talk about that. 561 01:07:29,483.2508113 --> 01:07:29,873.2508113 Yes. 562 01:07:30,83.2508113 --> 01:07:30,503.2508113 Thank you. 563 01:07:30,503.2508113 --> 01:07:31,283.2508113 Thank you very much. 564 01:07:36,910.8914296 --> 01:07:37,960.8914296 Thanks for being here. 565 01:07:38,530.8914296 --> 01:07:46,60.8914296 If this conversation resonated with you, consider reviewing therapy for the world or sharing the link with someone who might appreciate it. 566 01:07:46,720.8914296 --> 01:07:50,170.8914296 Until next time, speak with care and listen deeply.