The Child Within, the Art of Editing, and Finding Poetry in Daily Life

Sofía Sánchez Martínez is a poet, singer, editor, and researcher whose work moves between literature, music, and performance. She’s originally from San Luis Potosí in Mexico but has lived in Sevilla for a decade, where she earned a PhD in Communication from the University of Seville, as well as a Master’s in Creative Writing. She’s the author and editor of many books across several presses, including plays, essays on Latin American avant-garde movements, and poetry. I find her writing to be ethereal. Her stanzas are condensations into words of feelings that can be so difficult to grasp with care and precision. Her poetry has been translated into several languages, awarded the Luis Cernuda Prize, and appears in multiple anthologies. Sofi and I first met years ago when we were neighbors in Sevilla, and we reconnect every so often to talk about craft, editing, and life paths. In this hour, we talk about the long arc of her creative path—from editing and publishing to eventually finding a new life in music. Support the project: patreon.com/TherapyfortheWorld Music credits: “Limit 70,” licensed by Kevin MacLeod “Meditation” by Jules Massenet, from the Library of Congress Jukebox

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
when you're a little girl or little boy or, or you're just like younger, even like before, before teenage, before the adolescence, I think we are so wise, there's like pure wisdom and you can see also that you start to get a little bit like the shape of society, but you still have some like.

(00:24):
Purity, like of what you want, what you wanna say, what, who you want to become.
So that's why it's very important also, we evolve and we change, but it's very important to keep in contact with that, um, with that wisdom. 4 00:00:47,103.545410499 --> 00:00:56,253.545410499 Welcome to Therapy for the World, an interview series exploring the personal stories of people working across the spectrum of self care and world care. 5 00:00:56,823.545410499 --> 00:01:02,698.545410499 I'm Dan Sikorsky, a writing teacher and therapist, and the other voice you hear is Sophia Sanchez Martinez. 6 00:01:03,768.545410499 --> 00:01:11,508.545410499 Sophie is a poet, singer, editor, and researcher whose work moves between literature, music, and performance. 7 00:01:11,928.545410499 --> 00:01:23,118.545410499 She's originally from San Luis Potosi in Mexico, but has lived in Seville for a decade where she earned a PhD in communication from the University of Seville, as well as a master's in creative writing. 8 00:01:23,778.545410499 --> 00:01:33,108.545410499 She's the author and editor of many books across several presses, including plays essays on Latin American avant-garde movements and poetry. 9 00:01:33,918.545410499 --> 00:01:35,598.545410499 I find her writing to be ethereal. 10 00:01:36,93.545410499 --> 00:01:43,443.5454105 Her stanza are condensations into words of feelings that can be so difficult to grasp with care and precision. 11 00:01:43,983.5454105 --> 00:01:51,408.5454105 Her poetry has been translated into several languages, awarded the least Ola Prize, and appears in multiple anthologies. 12 00:01:52,753.5454105 --> 00:02:02,83.5454105 Sophie and I first met years ago when we were neighbors in Sivia, and we reconnect every so often to talk about craft editing and life paths. 13 00:02:02,705.89899915 --> 00:02:10,295.89899915 In this hour we talk about the long arc of her creative path from editing and publishing to eventually finding a new life in music. 14 00:02:11,380.89899915 --> 00:02:17,230.89899915 We recorded this on Friday, August 15th, 2025 at five in the afternoon. 15 00:02:17,830.89899915 --> 00:02:18,820.89899915 Here's our conversation. 16 00:02:29,243.97501489 --> 00:02:39,198.97501489 I'm so happy to be here with you again and to have a conversation, which I would love to start with the question that's been starting some of these conversations. 17 00:02:40,648.97501489 --> 00:02:57,563.97501489 If you had to think about a time, a person, an experience, something in your early childhood, in your youth that helped shape the person you are today, what would you point to? Oh, hello, Dan. 18 00:02:57,923.97501489 --> 00:03:17,3.97501489 I'm so happy, happy to, to talk to you again because I, I love, I just love this, for example, this question and what I, the first thing that comes to my mind and to my memory is my grandmother, uh, the mother of my father, uh, her name was lv. 19 00:03:18,548.97501489 --> 00:03:25,148.97501489 And she, uh, used to give all of her grandchildren a poem, the same poem. 20 00:03:25,478.97501489 --> 00:03:25,808.97501489 Okay. 21 00:03:26,168.97501489 --> 00:03:40,388.97501489 And it was wonderful because it's a short poem, a very like, simple with rhyme about, I would say it's about beauty and about about something that it's fragile as a flower. 22 00:03:40,388.97501489 --> 00:03:45,788.97501489 It's about a rose and a little boy, uh, trying to pursue that rose. 23 00:03:46,238.97501489 --> 00:03:49,958.97501489 But in the end, I'm not gonna say that the poem is in, in Spanish. 24 00:03:50,438.97501489 --> 00:04:06,68.97501489 Uh, and this poem, like the, what it showed you was that something very beautiful that I came to also learn later in life in a workshop of poetry, which was that to touch things, destroy them. 25 00:04:06,548.97501489 --> 00:04:13,358.97501489 It's a very weird idea, but it means about the fragility of beauty, you know, and of life also. 26 00:04:13,358.97501489 --> 00:04:16,958.97501489 And the, I would say, uh, uh. 27 00:04:19,448.97501489 --> 00:04:22,28.97501489 When something, um, finishes. 28 00:04:22,88.97501489 --> 00:04:29,408.97501489 It's like, uh, the, the finite No, the finite, It's finite, or it's ephe ephemeral also. 29 00:04:30,218.97501489 --> 00:04:30,908.97501489 exactly. 30 00:04:30,908.97501489 --> 00:04:32,348.97501489 That's the, that's the idea. 31 00:04:32,648.97501489 --> 00:04:40,568.97501489 So my grandmother, uh, told us or made us learn that poem for the school to all of her grandchildren. 32 00:04:40,988.97501489 --> 00:04:44,648.97501489 And this poem, I think my sister remembers it. 33 00:04:44,918.97501489 --> 00:04:52,838.97501489 My, my cousins remember this poem, and it was very beautiful because I've never come across a poem. 34 00:04:53,258.97501489 --> 00:04:55,208.97501489 So this was the first poem in my life. 35 00:04:55,718.97501489 --> 00:05:07,688.97501489 Of course, it was, uh, by speaking only, it was not written because I don't know if I already, maybe I could read and write, but very, I was very like seven, maybe eight years old. 36 00:05:08,168.97501489 --> 00:05:08,858.97501489 Of course, I could. 37 00:05:09,518.97501489 --> 00:05:11,198.97501489 Do the, the typical, no. 38 00:05:11,888.97501489 --> 00:05:21,608.97501489 Uh, the first encounter with literature was this poem, and it remem, it reminds me a lot of my grandmother of her food. 39 00:05:21,998.97501489 --> 00:05:27,398.97501489 Uh, it reminds me of this garden that she used to have, like in front of her house. 40 00:05:28,88.97501489 --> 00:05:32,408.97501489 And it's like a whole connection with this garden. 41 00:05:32,738.97501489 --> 00:05:48,398.97501489 Poetry, uh, my childhood, and also the encounter with this phenomenon, which is poetry, which is a phenomenon of language, but also of image, the production of images, of imagination. 42 00:05:48,908.97501489 --> 00:05:49,328.97501489 Okay. 43 00:05:49,688.97501489 --> 00:05:54,968.97501489 So this encounter was like a, okay, what is this? And I, I want to do that. 44 00:05:55,568.97501489 --> 00:05:59,558.97501489 What is this? And I want to do that with language, with images. 45 00:05:59,948.97501489 --> 00:06:04,388.97501489 And I think I started writing just at nine or 10 years old. 46 00:06:04,718.97501489 --> 00:06:06,968.97501489 I started writing because of that poem. 47 00:06:07,388.97501489 --> 00:06:22,568.97501489 So this was the first encounter with what? Now people ask me, no, what do you do? Or what do you like to do most? Or, no? And, and poetry for me is very important because it's a way of thinking. 48 00:06:22,658.97501489 --> 00:06:24,278.97501489 It's a way of living. 49 00:06:24,278.97501489 --> 00:06:25,898.97501489 It's a way of feeling. 50 00:06:26,108.97501489 --> 00:06:27,218.97501489 That's how you feel. 51 00:06:27,608.97501489 --> 00:06:39,188.97501489 I think most of people that, uh, maybe even don't practice the writing of poetry, but live in a certain way with a poetic attitude. 52 00:06:39,638.97501489 --> 00:06:39,788.97501489 Mm-hmm. 53 00:06:40,808.97501489 --> 00:06:45,848.97501489 You can say that person is a poet just because, uh, a way of noticing. 54 00:06:46,478.97501489 --> 00:06:48,188.97501489 Life and reality. 55 00:06:48,968.97501489 --> 00:06:51,788.97501489 So that's what I, what I believe is the most important. 56 00:06:52,208.97501489 --> 00:06:54,158.97501489 Even, even before the writing. 57 00:06:54,428.97501489 --> 00:07:03,313.97501489 It's the poetic moment, the poetic attitude, and that's what I read when I was really, really small, thanks to my, my grandmother, Elda. 58 00:07:05,438.97501489 --> 00:07:11,888.97501489 We could go one of those 20 different branches that this memory creates. 59 00:07:11,888.97501489 --> 00:07:19,123.97501489 It, it feels like a, when I, when I'm in Maria, a trunk memory, uh, you know, the tree trunk Mm-hmm. 60 00:07:19,208.97501489 --> 00:07:24,443.97501489 that I can see how so much was born of that experience, Mm-hmm. 61 00:07:24,458.97501489 --> 00:07:29,318.97501489 you know, just to point to one thing in particular, what is this? And I want to do this. 62 00:07:29,798.97501489 --> 00:07:32,588.97501489 Those questions, those feelings coexisting in you. 63 00:07:32,923.97501489 --> 00:07:33,343.97501489 Mm-hmm. 64 00:07:33,878.97501489 --> 00:07:42,818.97501489 I sounds to me like a testament to the, wisdom that one does not need to, no one's profession from head to toe to engage in it. 65 00:07:43,178.97501489 --> 00:07:50,228.97501489 There's always an element of healthy curiosity around much I still have yet to discover in my profession as I go through it. 66 00:07:50,258.97501489 --> 00:07:57,248.97501489 Otherwise, it's kind of boring, right? It's like, I think maybe the question of what is this? What is poetry is still animates your work in a way. 67 00:07:57,458.97501489 --> 00:08:07,133.97501489 Of course, I don't know what is it when I know I probably am gonna be dead or probably I don't wanna write anymore because I'm gonna rebuild the mystery. 68 00:08:07,283.97501489 --> 00:08:19,433.97501489 As long as I don't know quite sure how the, does that phenomenon work in the mind, in the consciousness, in the language, in the imagination level. 69 00:08:19,748.97501489 --> 00:08:25,268.97501489 In the body because it's, it's an embodiment of, of, of, of reality. 70 00:08:25,268.97501489 --> 00:08:31,628.97501489 The words in the poem and this thing that I love when people say, I don't like poetry because I don't understand it. 71 00:08:31,808.97501489 --> 00:08:34,928.97501489 And I always say, that's the point of poetry. 72 00:08:36,68.97501489 --> 00:08:43,178.97501489 And that's how you see how people get uncomf so uncomfortable when they don't understand something. 73 00:08:43,358.97501489 --> 00:08:50,48.97501489 And that's my willingness to get into that aby of not knowing the unknown. 74 00:08:50,618.97501489 --> 00:08:52,178.97501489 And I just wanna dive into that. 75 00:08:52,178.97501489 --> 00:08:54,998.97501489 That's why I love art and poetry, for example. 76 00:08:54,998.97501489 --> 00:08:55,238.97501489 No. 77 00:08:55,568.97501489 --> 00:08:57,363.97501489 Or paintings, abstract paintings. 78 00:08:57,428.97501489 --> 00:08:58,448.97501489 I adore that. 79 00:08:58,898.97501489 --> 00:09:02,18.97501489 Of course you cannot understand that because it's subconscious. 80 00:09:03,103.97501489 --> 00:09:06,568.97501489 I, I guess I would respond to that, that I, I hear you on the. 81 00:09:07,613.97501489 --> 00:09:14,753.97501489 There is an element of appreciating the unknown and the unknowable, maybe even in, in a poetic encounter. 82 00:09:15,413.97501489 --> 00:09:19,43.97501489 it, I, I feel as though, and I wonder if you feel this too. 83 00:09:19,43.97501489 --> 00:09:47,933.97501489 I feel as though there has to be at least something, a sliver, a an ounce of something that you do know or understand or can connect with in that, um, in that invitation into the unknown, right? Like something to a string from which to pull you in that speaks to something you do know, a, a way in which you can connect with the o that other wise, unknowable mass of, of, stuff. 84 00:09:47,963.97501489 --> 00:09:48,473.97501489 Of life. 85 00:09:48,773.97501489 --> 00:09:49,523.97501489 Of life stuff. 86 00:09:51,263.97501489 --> 00:09:59,693.97501489 Of course, I think, I think that for me, I, I would say rationally, uh, emotion, you have to connect at an emotional level. 87 00:10:00,53.97501489 --> 00:10:02,213.97501489 Then maybe you can connect at a. 88 00:10:03,638.97501489 --> 00:10:04,778.97501489 Different kinds of levels. 89 00:10:04,778.97501489 --> 00:10:06,938.97501489 Maybe cerebral or intellectual or whatever. 90 00:10:07,388.97501489 --> 00:10:14,918.97501489 But now I think it even goes in another way, which is you have to connect ener energetically. 91 00:10:15,278.97501489 --> 00:10:16,268.97501489 It's energy. 92 00:10:16,898.97501489 --> 00:10:26,978.97501489 Because when you feel, when you read a poem, when I'm, I think I'm just putting myself in the reader or in the perspective of the observer. 93 00:10:27,158.97501489 --> 00:10:40,208.97501489 I'm not putting in so much in the perspective of the maker, because I think the artist, the writer, the painter, the you, you know what you want to say even though you try to hide. 94 00:10:40,388.97501489 --> 00:10:47,648.97501489 I think it's this game between hiding and showing, and then maybe I do a poem about my grandmother and the rose and the garden. 95 00:10:48,518.97501489 --> 00:10:51,248.97501489 I'm not gonna give you all of my memory in a poem. 96 00:10:51,548.97501489 --> 00:10:54,458.97501489 I'm gonna give you some stuff. 97 00:10:54,818.97501489 --> 00:10:56,588.97501489 I'm gonna give you maybe an image. 98 00:10:57,248.97501489 --> 00:11:04,598.97501489 I'm gonna try to, uh, make something out of it, but I'm not gonna give it all to you, but I know what I'm saying. 99 00:11:04,928.97501489 --> 00:11:05,918.97501489 That's important. 100 00:11:06,218.97501489 --> 00:11:22,328.97501489 I think from the perspective of the creator, you have to, you should know from the perspective of the reader or the observer, I think it almost, I, I could say it goes beyond words. 101 00:11:22,568.97501489 --> 00:11:23,858.97501489 This happens in music. 102 00:11:24,398.97501489 --> 00:11:34,268.97501489 You don't understand maybe Spanish, maybe you're from, uh, another, uh, language, but you can feel no, the chords, maybe the harmonies. 103 00:11:35,168.97501489 --> 00:11:35,918.97501489 It's something ener. 104 00:11:35,948.97501489 --> 00:11:36,608.97501489 It's energy. 105 00:11:36,608.97501489 --> 00:11:39,578.97501489 I think it's the, the, it's working with energy. 106 00:11:39,788.97501489 --> 00:11:42,188.97501489 That's what the artists are doing in reality. 107 00:11:42,608.97501489 --> 00:11:46,28.97501489 They're working with energy, and the energy is a perception. 108 00:11:46,568.97501489 --> 00:11:50,663.97501489 Working with perceptions, The poem on Hmm. 109 00:11:50,778.97501489 --> 00:11:51,738.97501489 on another branch. 110 00:11:51,828.97501489 --> 00:11:58,608.97501489 There, the poem spoke, the one that your grandma would teach to you all. 111 00:11:58,968.97501489 --> 00:12:02,958.97501489 It said that to touch something is to destroy it. 112 00:12:03,608.97501489 --> 00:12:03,938.97501489 Mm-hmm. 113 00:12:04,53.97501489 --> 00:12:09,998.97501489 Uh, you said that that, that, that then came up in your writing courses, your poetry writing courses over time. 114 00:12:10,298.97501489 --> 00:12:11,38.97501489 I'd love Yeah. 115 00:12:11,258.97501489 --> 00:12:12,218.97501489 there for a little bit. 116 00:12:12,218.97501489 --> 00:12:30,758.97501489 What were your earliest poetic, um, instructions, like those spaces where you learned this craft, where you were, um, to it in a more academic or formal setting? Yeah, and I, I hopefully also, you know, how did that lesson apply in that setting? Yeah. 117 00:12:30,848.97501489 --> 00:12:35,108.97501489 So, uh, it was this moment, now, this first like fire that was this poem. 118 00:12:35,408.97501489 --> 00:12:44,468.97501489 I started writing on the margins of the notebooks in school, and then I was very interested, very young, like 12 years old in philosophy. 119 00:12:44,918.97501489 --> 00:12:52,178.97501489 So I started reading the world of Sophie, you know this by Justine Gardner, I think, uh, this book that is called The World of Sophia. 120 00:12:52,508.97501489 --> 00:12:57,128.97501489 Okay? So this talks about the history of philosophy and I was like, okay, I don't know if I. 121 00:12:57,468.97501489 --> 00:13:01,368.97501489 Like even more philosophy than literature or poetry. 122 00:13:01,938.97501489 --> 00:13:03,78.97501489 I mean, they're so connected. 123 00:13:03,588.97501489 --> 00:13:19,218.97501489 And I asked in the primary school where I attended, is there any, like, are there any philosophy courses that I can at 12 years old? Because I think, uh, this, um, Socrates and Aristo, I think they're very interesting. 124 00:13:19,578.97501489 --> 00:13:21,18.97501489 I think there's something there. 125 00:13:21,18.97501489 --> 00:13:25,458.97501489 And they were like, okay, kid, you have to wait, uh, like until you're a bit, uh, older. 126 00:13:25,488.97501489 --> 00:13:25,878.97501489 Okay. 127 00:13:26,118.97501489 --> 00:13:28,98.97501489 So I kept, uh, writing a lot. 128 00:13:28,98.97501489 --> 00:13:39,78.97501489 And then I remember, I recall writing essays too, talking about politics and talking about social and uh, talking about, um, injustice. 129 00:13:39,228.97501489 --> 00:13:42,948.97501489 I was very political even like at 12, 13 years old. 130 00:13:43,278.97501489 --> 00:13:52,248.97501489 And then at that time I met someone that was like, uh, my first love and this person was very important for my. 131 00:13:52,673.97501489 --> 00:13:58,793.97501489 Life because inspired me in the romantic way, but also inspired me in the artistic way. 132 00:13:59,273.97501489 --> 00:14:05,213.97501489 And this person is gonna be important later on when we keep talking about music. 133 00:14:05,693.97501489 --> 00:14:12,23.97501489 And this was my, I formed my first band when I was 12 years old and I was the bass, the bass player. 134 00:14:13,463.97501489 --> 00:14:18,143.97501489 And uh, at that moment I got very inspired and I wrote a whole book. 135 00:14:18,623.97501489 --> 00:14:22,673.97501489 It had poetry, essays, and it had short stories. 136 00:14:22,733.97501489 --> 00:14:27,623.97501489 I was 14, 15 years old, so I wanted to publish that. 137 00:14:28,313.97501489 --> 00:14:32,153.97501489 Uh, like there's something there I want to publish 15-year-old. 138 00:14:32,303.97501489 --> 00:14:32,843.97501489 Okay. 139 00:14:33,263.97501489 --> 00:14:39,293.97501489 So I went to the place here in San Luis Potosi, Mexico, where I am right now, visiting my family. 140 00:14:39,953.97501489 --> 00:14:43,523.97501489 And I went to this like publishing from the government. 141 00:14:44,93.97501489 --> 00:14:46,463.97501489 It was the publishing house, uh, PON. 142 00:14:47,903.97501489 --> 00:14:50,483.97501489 And they received me, they received my, my book. 143 00:14:50,813.97501489 --> 00:14:51,203.97501489 Okay. 144 00:14:51,203.97501489 --> 00:14:55,283.97501489 This little girl, she wants to write and they reco recommended it, like, okay. 145 00:14:55,313.97501489 --> 00:15:06,593.97501489 So we often like publish books with prizes or with other kind of, you know, like old people or older. 146 00:15:06,593.97501489 --> 00:15:06,833.97501489 No. 147 00:15:07,133.97501489 --> 00:15:14,3.97501489 So we recommend you to, that you come to the workshops, uh, poetry workshops on Saturdays with a poet. 148 00:15:14,33.97501489 --> 00:15:27,143.97501489 And my first, um, poet teacher and or person that introduced me to the ways of poetry, like officially, and his name is, um, Mario Alonso. 149 00:15:27,503.97501489 --> 00:15:29,63.97501489 Mario Alonso Lopez, Nevada. 150 00:15:29,453.97501489 --> 00:15:33,653.97501489 He, I think he still do, uh, he, he he do that. 151 00:15:33,683.97501489 --> 00:15:35,333.97501489 He does, he still does that workshops. 152 00:15:35,543.97501489 --> 00:15:44,903.97501489 Those workshops In, in another, I think it's a museum now, a house museum of another poet, very famous in Mexico called, uh, Jose Manuelo. 153 00:15:46,328.97501489 --> 00:15:54,488.97501489 So this, this poet read some of my poems I, I shared in these workshops, like we all know, workshop was my first time. 154 00:15:54,488.97501489 --> 00:15:55,568.97501489 I was 15 years old. 155 00:15:56,498.97501489 --> 00:16:06,728.97501489 And it was beautiful because I had the, the, the experience of also hear other poets older than me and get inspired by that. 156 00:16:06,848.97501489 --> 00:16:07,88.97501489 No. 157 00:16:07,418.97501489 --> 00:16:09,308.97501489 So that's where I would say it began. 158 00:16:09,308.97501489 --> 00:16:10,748.97501489 Like the commitment. 159 00:16:10,748.97501489 --> 00:16:14,348.97501489 I wanna, I want to produce poetry. 160 00:16:14,798.97501489 --> 00:16:16,688.97501489 Wanna write it? Edit. 161 00:16:16,748.97501489 --> 00:16:17,678.97501489 That's the first time. 162 00:16:17,738.97501489 --> 00:16:18,818.97501489 Edit your poems. 163 00:16:18,848.97501489 --> 00:16:19,808.97501489 What's that? Edit. 164 00:16:19,898.97501489 --> 00:16:21,158.97501489 Oh, you can change your mind. 165 00:16:21,188.97501489 --> 00:16:21,968.97501489 Oh, interesting. 166 00:16:21,968.97501489 --> 00:16:22,238.97501489 No. 167 00:16:23,48.97501489 --> 00:16:26,858.97501489 And then develop this eye of correcting your own work. 168 00:16:27,38.97501489 --> 00:16:29,768.97501489 And then, uh, I want to publish my, my books. 169 00:16:29,768.97501489 --> 00:16:30,458.97501489 That's my dream. 170 00:16:30,458.97501489 --> 00:16:32,228.97501489 No, it's like being an astronaut. 171 00:16:32,288.97501489 --> 00:16:35,108.97501489 Well, my, my, my dream was to become a poet. 172 00:16:35,348.97501489 --> 00:16:44,618.9750149 Know, and this, I remember some of the poems were like, I got, got good like feedback and there was one poem. 173 00:16:45,128.9750149 --> 00:16:50,648.9750149 I remember one, like love poem, very classy, like with rhymes and all in that time. 174 00:16:50,708.9750149 --> 00:16:52,688.9750149 Now, I, I don't like it and I don't do it. 175 00:16:52,718.9750149 --> 00:16:56,588.9750149 I respect the people that rhyme, but I don't, now I don't. 176 00:16:56,588.9750149 --> 00:17:03,848.9750149 But in that, I think, I don't remember if that was a poem with rhyme, but this, this poet for me, like I respect it a lot. 177 00:17:04,403.9750149 --> 00:17:10,508.9750149 I, I, I, I came with this point when he told me I wouldn't act or take anything out of it. 178 00:17:11,108.9750149 --> 00:17:12,248.9750149 It's perfect how it is. 179 00:17:13,208.9750149 --> 00:17:16,148.9750149 And I was very like, okay, I'm not that bad. 180 00:17:16,718.9750149 --> 00:17:19,268.9750149 Okay, okay, now it's being collective. 181 00:17:19,268.9750149 --> 00:17:27,998.9750149 No, came out from my margins in the book, in the notebooks, and now I'm making it collective and it doesn't suck. 182 00:17:29,228.9750149 --> 00:17:34,58.9750149 So, yeah, then it hap, it, it some years passed by. 183 00:17:34,553.9750149 --> 00:17:38,183.9750149 And my first book, I self-published here in San Luis Potosi. 184 00:17:38,693.9750149 --> 00:17:40,433.9750149 When I was 21 years old. 185 00:17:40,823.9750149 --> 00:17:43,583.9750149 I saw, I said, okay, I want to do this book. 186 00:17:44,3.9750149 --> 00:17:45,473.9750149 Nobody's gonna do it. 187 00:17:45,533.9750149 --> 00:17:47,423.9750149 But I, I believe in myself. 188 00:17:47,723.9750149 --> 00:17:52,373.9750149 So I remember I came with a plan, like economic plan with my family. 189 00:17:52,493.9750149 --> 00:17:57,173.9750149 I was, okay, so this is a book and I'm gonna return you the money. 190 00:17:57,173.9750149 --> 00:18:01,883.9750149 You lend me the money to do this in the polishing house, in the press and whatever. 191 00:18:01,883.9750149 --> 00:18:02,93.9750149 No. 192 00:18:02,573.9750149 --> 00:18:04,973.9750149 And um, I think they were very impressed. 193 00:18:04,973.9750149 --> 00:18:08,933.9750149 Like, she's 21, she wants to do a book, let's support her. 194 00:18:09,773.9750149 --> 00:18:17,183.9750149 But then here in San Luis Potosi in Mexico, it wasn't well seen that a 21-year-old wanted to do that. 195 00:18:17,843.9750149 --> 00:18:19,523.9750149 And they criticized me a lot. 196 00:18:20,183.9750149 --> 00:18:21,713.9750149 I mean, I presented the book. 197 00:18:21,713.9750149 --> 00:18:23,633.9750149 I didn't felt quite a connection. 198 00:18:24,203.9750149 --> 00:18:28,313.9750149 Some people bought the book, some people liked the book, but I didn't felt. 199 00:18:29,3.9750149 --> 00:18:34,643.9750149 Like the, the magic, the it, like the magic wasn't happening. 200 00:18:35,3.9750149 --> 00:18:44,873.9750149 So I remember that by that time, I already lived one year in Seil, Spain, and in Seil I read poetry and I felt the connection. 201 00:18:45,353.9750149 --> 00:18:58,853.9750149 I felt that my poetic energy was well received and my projects, because I used to have a magazine of poetry, arts and politics, and this fun scene, they received it. 202 00:18:58,853.9750149 --> 00:19:02,813.9750149 And many people from Spain started sending me their, their work. 203 00:19:02,873.9750149 --> 00:19:09,83.9750149 Uh, I think by, I, I don't know if it was two months or month per month. 204 00:19:10,178.9750149 --> 00:19:15,188.9750149 They would send me work and it was a beautiful, like, connection between Spain and Mexico. 205 00:19:16,178.9750149 --> 00:19:20,618.9750149 Uh, but when I came back I said, okay, I don't feel like I'm connecting. 206 00:19:20,978.9750149 --> 00:19:25,658.9750149 I'm gonna start a publishing house and I'm gonna publish other people beside me. 207 00:19:25,688.9750149 --> 00:19:26,138.9750149 Okay. 208 00:19:26,318.9750149 --> 00:19:27,488.9750149 So that was the idea. 209 00:19:27,608.9750149 --> 00:19:32,918.9750149 I published my book because I wanted to start a publishing house, and then it was beautiful. 210 00:19:32,918.9750149 --> 00:19:37,328.9750149 We published around 11 or 12 different books of different people. 211 00:19:37,628.9750149 --> 00:19:40,748.9750149 It was novel, like short stories and poetry. 212 00:19:41,468.9750149 --> 00:19:54,398.9750149 And I think the, the best thing that came out of that is that the same publishing house where I went, where I went when I was 15, uh, agreed to work with my publishing house. 213 00:19:54,428.9750149 --> 00:19:56,348.9750149 Well, our publishing house, my sister and I. 214 00:19:57,128.9750149 --> 00:20:01,628.9750149 To publish, uh, a very recognized poet, uh, that now passed away. 215 00:20:01,658.9750149 --> 00:20:16,598.9750149 His name was Lisa Albert Ano a very good poet from Mexico, and we published one of his books along the publishing house of the State of Sand Luis osi and editorial to which was our publishing house. 216 00:20:16,838.9750149 --> 00:20:28,148.9750149 So that was like, okay, I I, I did it in a way, you know, with other poet, but I did all of the, you know, editing the correction and also the actual book. 217 00:20:28,208.9750149 --> 00:20:29,318.9750149 I, I designed it. 218 00:20:29,738.9750149 --> 00:20:33,818.9750149 So I, I became thanks to a friend, Isabel De Lara, which is a very good friend. 219 00:20:33,818.9750149 --> 00:20:35,258.9750149 She now lives in Barcelona. 220 00:20:35,738.9750149 --> 00:20:40,298.9750149 She, she showed me everything about, about editing in design. 221 00:20:40,718.9750149 --> 00:20:44,378.9750149 And I did also, like, I love the editorial work. 222 00:20:45,233.9750149 --> 00:20:51,113.9750149 Came to me as something that I could say love equally to poetry, to produce poetry. 223 00:20:51,623.9750149 --> 00:20:55,703.9750149 I love to, to make books like the loss of books. 224 00:20:55,703.9750149 --> 00:21:02,783.9750149 It's something that it's, I have a big library here that I left in Mexico in my parents' house, and I see it and it's like, oh no. 225 00:21:02,783.9750149 --> 00:21:03,743.9750149 All of my books. 226 00:21:03,923.9750149 --> 00:21:12,23.9750149 And now I have a lot of books like In Seil, that's where I currently live, and it's like I have so many little libraries around the world, so many books that I love. 227 00:21:12,383.9750149 --> 00:21:21,478.9750149 It's like My Heart is a little bit, yeah, in different books like Horror Crookes from Harry Potter, Nice Harry Potter reference. 228 00:21:21,478.9750149 --> 00:21:23,98.9750149 Always important to have one of those somewhere. 229 00:21:23,603.9750149 --> 00:21:23,948.9750149 love Harry. 230 00:21:25,648.9750149 --> 00:21:38,458.9750149 the, the statement that stood out to me in, in this story is your conviction that the creator should know that you know what you want to say. 231 00:21:39,508.9750149 --> 00:21:40,18.9750149 I, I. 232 00:21:40,958.9750149 --> 00:21:48,668.9750149 doubt that you know what you want to say because I, because you, you know, you published six books in six years later on in this timeline. 233 00:21:49,238.9750149 --> 00:21:49,598.9750149 I know. 234 00:21:49,598.9750149 --> 00:21:52,88.9750149 You know what you want to say. 235 00:21:52,958.9750149 --> 00:22:00,788.9750149 Maybe I'm envious because I certainly don't, think it's something I tap into when I'm working with others on their writing. 236 00:22:01,28.9750149 --> 00:22:01,688.9750149 Certainly. 237 00:22:02,48.9750149 --> 00:22:04,508.9750149 I think I know what you want to say. 238 00:22:04,918.9750149 --> 00:22:05,338.9750149 Mm-hmm. 239 00:22:05,408.9750149 --> 00:22:10,58.9750149 a little bit of the feeling I try to connect with when I work on someone else's writing as an editor. 240 00:22:10,358.9750149 --> 00:22:10,778.9750149 Mm-hmm. 241 00:22:11,168.9750149 --> 00:22:18,458.9750149 if I don't know, it's probably because don't know, or we need to create an understanding around what you wanna say a little bit more. 242 00:22:18,458.9750149 --> 00:22:32,558.9750149 Right? Like, what, what are you trying to say? Here is probably the question I ask in every single session of editorial work with someone, because it's often through, through the act of speaking about it and of, of diving into what is, what is what you, what you're trying to say. 243 00:22:32,558.9750149 --> 00:22:35,528.9750149 Here we come Mm, clarity around, around the words. 244 00:22:35,768.9750149 --> 00:22:36,468.9750149 Um, but when you were. 245 00:22:37,913.9750149 --> 00:22:43,943.9750149 12 you, I think you said, and you created this, this manuscript of essays and poems and so on. 246 00:22:44,273.9750149 --> 00:22:47,813.9750149 Did you know then as well what you wanted to say? for sure. 247 00:22:48,173.9750149 --> 00:22:54,173.9750149 Maybe I knew more what I wanted to say when I was, uh, younger than now because I was clear. 248 00:22:54,173.9750149 --> 00:23:23,813.9750149 I think, and this is a theory I have, I mean a home, uh, home fear theory, which is that when you're a little girl or little boy or, or you're just like younger, even like before, before teenage, before the adolescence, I think we are so wise, there's like pure wisdom and you can see also that you start to get a little bit like the shape of society, but you still have some like. 249 00:23:24,863.9750149 --> 00:23:30,233.9750149 Purity, like of what you want, what you wanna say, what, who you want to become. 250 00:23:30,563.9750149 --> 00:23:39,53.9750149 So that's why it's very important also, we evolve and we change, but it's very important to keep in contact with that, um, with that wisdom. 251 00:23:39,503.9750149 --> 00:23:39,953.9750149 Okay. 252 00:23:40,103.9750149 --> 00:23:53,63.9750149 So I, there is a, like a phrase from, uh, friends, uh, which is a painter, and she wrote, and maybe it's from someone that I don't know, but it says, CIA Destin, which means childhood is destiny. 253 00:23:53,813.9750149 --> 00:23:54,53.9750149 Okay. 254 00:23:54,293.9750149 --> 00:24:05,63.9750149 So I think in, in, in life, which is I, I I gather as a circle or as a spiral, you always go back to the center. 255 00:24:05,123.9750149 --> 00:24:12,383.9750149 And the center usually relies or lies in childhood in who you. 256 00:24:13,898.9750149 --> 00:24:17,738.9750149 Uh, perceived you were or what you wanted. 257 00:24:18,578.9750149 --> 00:24:22,748.9750149 Obviously that change, that change is, it evolves. 258 00:24:22,748.9750149 --> 00:24:29,318.9750149 You don't have to, uh, you know, because that could also make you stay in the past. 259 00:24:29,498.9750149 --> 00:24:31,358.9750149 And that's not good for evolution. 260 00:24:31,388.9750149 --> 00:24:34,628.9750149 No, but I think it's very important to keep in mind. 261 00:24:34,808.9750149 --> 00:24:39,938.9750149 For example, sometimes I'm a bit lost relationship wise in that sense. 262 00:24:39,953.9750149 --> 00:24:48,8.9750149 I, I, I think I have like, ooh, the books and literature and music, but maybe in the relationship maturity, I'm like here. 263 00:24:49,388.9750149 --> 00:24:51,848.9750149 So that's a working process. 264 00:24:52,418.9750149 --> 00:25:08,738.9750149 So sometimes I ask my little, my little Sophie, what do you think it's the right thing to do? She's so good at advice, like giving me advice she knows because she's very committed to, uh, an image. 265 00:25:09,668.9750149 --> 00:25:11,498.9750149 Of, of the good and the bad. 266 00:25:11,498.9750149 --> 00:25:23,438.9750149 Maybe like, she knows when, when we become like adults, uh, the, I think the nuances of good and bad is like, they're different. 267 00:25:23,678.9750149 --> 00:25:36,128.9750149 But when you want to ask for yourself, I don't say for the rest of the world, for yourself, is this good for me? Is this correct for me? Is this a wise for me? Is, is this gonna make me happy? That simple. 268 00:25:36,128.9750149 --> 00:25:36,998.9750149 It's as simple as that. 269 00:25:37,598.9750149 --> 00:25:44,918.9750149 And sometimes, like, I think it's a good like to hear one self's voice when you were like almost a child. 270 00:25:45,518.9750149 --> 00:25:51,788.9750149 This 12-year-old, she knows, I, I mean she used to do short stories. 271 00:25:51,878.9750149 --> 00:25:54,968.9750149 She, she didn't believe she was bad at writing short stories. 272 00:25:55,58.9750149 --> 00:25:57,728.9750149 Now I say I'm bad at writing short stories. 273 00:25:59,138.9750149 --> 00:26:00,878.9750149 It's an idea that came to me. 274 00:26:01,28.9750149 --> 00:26:06,368.9750149 I don't think, no one told me that myself put that limit, but. 275 00:26:07,493.9750149 --> 00:26:11,633.9750149 She could write essays, politics, short stories, poems. 276 00:26:12,23.9750149 --> 00:26:13,643.9750149 She knew, she knew the real. 277 00:26:14,103.9750149 --> 00:26:20,333.9750149 She could show up at the biggest publisher in town and say, Hey, I have a book I have a book, now. 278 00:26:20,333.9750149 --> 00:26:21,503.9750149 I don't, I don't do that. 279 00:26:21,593.9750149 --> 00:26:24,413.9750149 I'm so scared, like, let them come to me. 280 00:26:25,253.9750149 --> 00:26:29,903.9750149 If they don't show interest, I'm, if they don't show interest, I'm not gonna go and, and show my book. 281 00:26:29,903.9750149 --> 00:26:31,13.9750149 That's not correct. 282 00:26:32,873.9750149 --> 00:26:33,623.9750149 Weird, no. 283 00:26:34,268.9750149 --> 00:26:34,898.9750149 Sophie. 284 00:26:35,918.9750149 --> 00:26:38,908.9750149 while we're still on the topic of writing, Mm-hmm. 285 00:26:38,918.9750149 --> 00:26:45,718.9750149 you were talking to me earlier off the air about how you're doing a little bit less writing yourself right now, and Mm-hmm. 286 00:26:45,758.9750149 --> 00:26:47,648.9750149 we'll talk about that in, in a, in a little bit. 287 00:26:47,648.9750149 --> 00:26:50,408.9750149 But you're still doing a lot of editorial work. 288 00:26:50,888.9750149 --> 00:26:51,248.9750149 Um. 289 00:26:52,478.9750149 --> 00:26:57,508.9750149 You, you, I like that you, you used the word editorial instead of editing Mm-hmm. 290 00:26:57,578.9750149 --> 00:26:59,498.9750149 in your, in your, in your speech. 291 00:26:59,858.9750149 --> 00:27:11,263.9750149 Um, which I imagine has to do with the fact that you had so much history, so much of, so much, so many stories and history in working in publishing houses and, and editorial, Mm-hmm. 292 00:27:12,3.9750149 --> 00:27:12,423.9750149 Mm-hmm. 293 00:27:12,668.9750149 --> 00:27:13,658.9750149 The editorial world. 294 00:27:13,658.9750149 --> 00:27:14,48.9750149 Yeah. 295 00:27:14,378.9750149 --> 00:27:14,708.9750149 Yeah. 296 00:27:14,948.9750149 --> 00:27:17,618.9750149 Which is traditionally where a lot of editing happens. 297 00:27:17,618.9750149 --> 00:27:20,633.9750149 But you, you call it editorial work still, which is, Mm-hmm. 298 00:27:20,768.9750149 --> 00:27:21,398.9750149 is interesting. 299 00:27:21,608.9750149 --> 00:27:29,263.9750149 Wh what are, what is your approach to editing? How do you work with a writer, um, when they bring you a poem, for instance? Mm-hmm. 300 00:27:29,738.9750149 --> 00:27:47,528.9750149 Yeah, it's, it's interesting because, uh, when I started in this editorial, Torino, my book, my publishing house, I think I was very, I wanted to keep this editorial work, which is this line now, this line of what it's supposed to be, the. 301 00:27:48,578.9750149 --> 00:27:55,238.9750149 Kind of a quality now that we are looking for and maybe, uh, to, to keep it good for everyone. 302 00:27:55,238.9750149 --> 00:28:00,218.9750149 No, so, so you have all kinds of authors, all kinds of ages. 303 00:28:00,218.9750149 --> 00:28:01,268.9750149 This was very important. 304 00:28:01,268.9750149 --> 00:28:05,738.9750149 We could have a 19-year-old poet, which was very good. 305 00:28:06,368.9750149 --> 00:28:09,998.9750149 Luis k Mendoza, I remember he's maybe still here in San Luis. 306 00:28:10,808.9750149 --> 00:28:17,408.9750149 And then Luis Alberto Ano, who had some good important prize of like, literature. 307 00:28:17,768.9750149 --> 00:28:22,808.9750149 So for me it was important that the age, uh, or the experience wasn't a problem. 308 00:28:22,988.9750149 --> 00:28:25,238.9750149 No, it was the quality of the writing. 309 00:28:25,748.9750149 --> 00:28:36,813.9750149 And this is very interesting because I remember just by conversation, I, I said I thought this 19-year-old is a good poet, just by the conversation. 310 00:28:37,853.9750149 --> 00:28:42,53.9750149 He told me like a memory of his like adolescent childhood, I don't know. 311 00:28:42,383.9750149 --> 00:28:47,303.9750149 And I was like, oh, just the way he's telling me this story, I'm sure he's a good writer. 312 00:28:47,693.9750149 --> 00:28:51,323.9750149 And when he sent us the manuscript, it was a good manuscript. 313 00:28:51,653.9750149 --> 00:29:00,23.9750149 But then of course there was more work in the editing, in the actual editing than maybe in the book of the other poet. 314 00:29:00,23.9750149 --> 00:29:07,553.9750149 No, because there was a work already and there was like experience and self editing, so it's easier. 315 00:29:08,483.9750149 --> 00:29:14,903.9750149 Then I went to Bil to study a master in creative writing, and then I could write a lot. 316 00:29:14,903.9750149 --> 00:29:16,523.9750149 That's when I had this like. 317 00:29:17,123.9750149 --> 00:29:19,583.9750149 It was like an explosion of creativity. 318 00:29:19,583.9750149 --> 00:29:20,243.9750149 Actually. 319 00:29:20,243.9750149 --> 00:29:27,833.9750149 It was crazy that I, I think I wrote three books in one year, three poetry books, and all of them were published later on. 320 00:29:28,373.9750149 --> 00:29:30,623.9750149 It was a play and two poetry books. 321 00:29:31,343.9750149 --> 00:29:42,803.9750149 And when I went to Bil feeling that connection, I decided to, and my publishing house, because I didn't have the time and I wanted to, I wanted to focus on writing. 322 00:29:43,433.9750149 --> 00:29:54,923.9750149 I think there's a time for everything, uh, as you said earlier, and you have to choose your battles and you have to say, okay, right now I wanna write and then you write Right now I don't wanna edit, I wanna write. 323 00:29:55,283.9750149 --> 00:29:57,143.9750149 And I did that for, for a few years. 324 00:29:57,563.9750149 --> 00:30:03,383.9750149 Then started, I started the PhD, so there was a lot of writing, and then there was like, um. 325 00:30:03,458.9750149 --> 00:30:11,468.9750149 A publishing house that invited me to, to, to start a project that was very interesting, which was Eros. 326 00:30:11,978.9750149 --> 00:30:24,938.9750149 This is, um, a publishing house that, uh, it's like it was founded in Madrid and the two, uh, like editors, uh, it started good first year. 327 00:30:24,938.9750149 --> 00:30:26,288.9750149 I think I stayed two years. 328 00:30:26,678.9750149 --> 00:30:27,638.9750149 It was, it was good. 329 00:30:27,638.9750149 --> 00:30:28,898.9750149 It was a good experience. 330 00:30:29,18.9750149 --> 00:30:44,768.9750149 But then we ended our relationship, like work relationship and uh, I feel very proud of that year because those two years, for me, it was seeing how the publishing house world worked in Spain. 331 00:30:45,398.9750149 --> 00:30:45,758.9750149 Okay. 332 00:30:45,968.9750149 --> 00:30:48,818.9750149 So it was good because now I have the experience in Mexico. 333 00:30:49,118.9750149 --> 00:30:53,408.9750149 Now I have the experience in Spain, but it was essay world. 334 00:30:53,408.9750149 --> 00:30:58,238.9750149 So I remember I edited my first book with Ika was Donna Haraway. 335 00:30:59,798.9750149 --> 00:31:03,338.9750149 That's like having a jewel in your hands to edit. 336 00:31:03,878.9750149 --> 00:31:15,398.9750149 And I felt so excited doing all of this big bi, you know, the bibliography or the, the end that you have all of these quotes and it's like, it was, it was mad. 337 00:31:15,398.9750149 --> 00:31:16,868.9750149 It was like 20 pages. 338 00:31:16,868.9750149 --> 00:31:20,78.9750149 Like it, this is another book, just the references. 339 00:31:20,198.9750149 --> 00:31:25,88.9750149 I mean, this is chunky theory, you know, remember, remember my relationship with philosophy. 340 00:31:25,88.9750149 --> 00:31:26,888.9750149 This was, this was insane. 341 00:31:27,278.9750149 --> 00:31:34,838.9750149 Then I could, I, I did another book, which was, um, Robert Ro, which is Queer Theory. 342 00:31:35,348.9750149 --> 00:31:36,548.9750149 What a book. 343 00:31:36,608.9750149 --> 00:31:41,228.9750149 I mean just like, uh, essays that matter. 344 00:31:41,288.9750149 --> 00:31:44,768.9750149 Ecology, uh, uh. 345 00:31:45,443.9750149 --> 00:31:51,533.9750149 Everything, you know, like this, this new, uh, approach echo feminism. 346 00:31:51,863.9750149 --> 00:31:52,703.9750149 It was beautiful. 347 00:31:52,733.9750149 --> 00:31:54,203.9750149 It was a beautiful experience. 348 00:31:54,653.9750149 --> 00:32:13,343.9750149 And then later on, and now my actual like work that I do apart from little things that I did, uh, like on my own, like with authors and, and that's a work that is slower, but very beautiful too, just to work with one author and it's all by yourself. 349 00:32:13,343.9750149 --> 00:32:15,833.9750149 It's not with other publishing houses, just with the author. 350 00:32:16,223.9750149 --> 00:32:18,863.9750149 That's a very personal, personalized work. 351 00:32:18,893.9750149 --> 00:32:19,913.9750149 And I like that work. 352 00:32:19,913.9750149 --> 00:32:20,963.9750149 It's a bit slower. 353 00:32:22,373.9750149 --> 00:32:35,783.9750149 Um, and now I'm with Editorial Ultra Marina and what I did with them and, and I'm so like, so happy to do, to do that was the ontology of the Infra Realist, which is what my PhD was based on. 354 00:32:36,218.9750149 --> 00:33:01,448.9750149 I finished the PhD last year and a few months later I was doing the ontology of these 20 writers of Mexico and, and some of Chile and some of Peru with this poetry that's being, uh, taken out of the, like the center of the talk or the culture in Mexico because they were treated as rebels that were just violent. 355 00:33:01,538.9750149 --> 00:33:05,798.9750149 And they're not, they're not part of literature history in Mexico. 356 00:33:06,338.9750149 --> 00:33:14,408.9750149 How are, how are they not gonna be part of literature, uh, history in Mexico when they are the most close to the. 357 00:33:15,158.9750149 --> 00:33:29,768.9750149 To the way of seeing the world, to the language of the streets, to the way of seeing the body and the relationship, uh, the, the erotic part of, I mean, of Latin America, of Mexico. 358 00:33:29,948.9750149 --> 00:33:33,398.9750149 So it's, I think it's like so necessary. 359 00:33:33,458.9750149 --> 00:33:40,118.9750149 And I did that and I'm super, super happy that I could be the, the editor in, uh, of that anthology. 360 00:33:40,688.9750149 --> 00:33:45,878.9750149 And then, uh, Aurora, you know, Aurora, she published a book and I was also the editor. 361 00:33:46,503.9750149 --> 00:33:54,693.9750149 So I think it's been, uh, quite an opportunity, but always working with, uh, independent publishing houses, never with a big one. 362 00:33:55,113.9750149 --> 00:34:21,93.9750149 So I could say that I've always been close to the, to the author or in some of the cases to the translators because, for example, in the books that I mentioned earlier, the Kartika books, it's just with the translators because the Robert McGreer is in, I think Washington and, I mean Donna Haraway, like doing the, these like international conferences and universities, like it's, it's, its far away. 363 00:34:21,393.9750149 --> 00:34:24,843.9750149 But with other authors it's close and it's very personal. 364 00:34:24,843.9750149 --> 00:34:25,923.9750149 It's very endearing. 365 00:34:26,313.9750149 --> 00:34:36,603.9750149 So I think it varies on the project, but the relationship with the text, obviously in the, in the editing process is very important. 366 00:34:37,58.9750149 --> 00:34:52,808.9750149 Even though maybe you're not agreeing, even though maybe some poems you don't like, because it's not your, it doesn't matter that, but what you have to do is to make it work as a system, because books are, it's very cold to see it this way, but it's like a system. 367 00:34:52,958.9750149 --> 00:34:53,318.9750149 Okay. 368 00:34:53,528.9750149 --> 00:34:55,358.9750149 So it has to work in that sense. 369 00:34:55,448.9750149 --> 00:34:58,958.9750149 The order of the test, O obviously the correcting, et cetera. 370 00:34:58,958.9750149 --> 00:35:03,278.9750149 No, even the design, that's what's a, a place where I also like to participate. 371 00:35:03,518.9750149 --> 00:35:06,488.9750149 The design of covers, the design of the book, everything. 372 00:35:06,968.9750149 --> 00:35:08,828.9750149 The margins important. 373 00:35:09,488.9750149 --> 00:35:10,898.9750149 Everything is important in a book. 374 00:35:11,653.9750149 --> 00:35:11,943.9750149 Yeah. 375 00:35:12,233.9750149 --> 00:35:13,418.9750149 So it's a system. 376 00:35:13,838.9750149 --> 00:35:16,298.9750149 You also said the word slow. 377 00:35:16,328.9750149 --> 00:35:20,468.9750149 It's a slower process to work with an independent author. 378 00:35:20,708.9750149 --> 00:35:27,338.9750149 How does that work? Look, when you meet with the author, are you editing on the sentence level? Are you thinking. 379 00:35:27,428.9750149 --> 00:35:28,808.9750149 Always on a systemic level. 380 00:35:28,808.9750149 --> 00:35:31,598.9750149 I'm sure the sentence is also part of the, the, the system. 381 00:35:31,868.9750149 --> 00:35:51,833.9750149 Uh, so I wonder what, you know, what does that work look like on, um, on a day-to-day basis with the writer? For example, in a, the, the, my, I think my specialty, because in the essay process, it's more about maybe paragraphs, you know, I mean, you go by sentence, but it's not as detailed. 382 00:35:51,953.9750149 --> 00:36:00,833.9750149 It's more like in the global aspect, but in the poetry level, birth by word, by word, every comma. 383 00:36:01,313.9750149 --> 00:36:04,73.9750149 Why did you put two points instead of point and comma? Wow. 384 00:36:04,403.9750149 --> 00:36:08,423.9750149 Why did you make a space here? Maybe you know, everything. 385 00:36:08,508.9750149 --> 00:36:15,503.9750149 I, I am very detailed, but I'm very respectful because I always say, okay, you ended like this, this poem. 386 00:36:15,503.9750149 --> 00:36:16,913.9750149 It's nice, it's very beautiful. 387 00:36:17,393.9750149 --> 00:36:21,83.9750149 I suggest this, but you are the author. 388 00:36:21,593.9750149 --> 00:36:30,353.9750149 You decide, you know, it's very important that you offer options, maybe two options even. 389 00:36:31,103.9750149 --> 00:36:33,203.9750149 But it's your poem, it's your poetry. 390 00:36:33,533.9750149 --> 00:36:38,783.9750149 So I'm very respectful in that sense, but I go word by word point and comma per comma. 391 00:36:39,143.9750149 --> 00:36:44,243.9750149 In poetry essays, it's more the global paragraph. 392 00:36:44,258.9750149 --> 00:36:44,418.9750149 the. 393 00:36:45,608.9750149 --> 00:36:50,588.9750149 The word is why that you asked, um, you know, why this and why that. 394 00:36:50,588.9750149 --> 00:37:00,368.9750149 It's an invitation to justification and invitation to intentionality behind the, behind the word choice, the punctuation choice. 395 00:37:00,478.9750149 --> 00:37:00,898.9750149 Mm-hmm. 396 00:37:01,148.9750149 --> 00:37:04,868.9750149 reminded of what your first writing teacher said to you. 397 00:37:05,528.9750149 --> 00:37:13,878.9750149 You don't need to add or delete a thing, and how important it is to tell a writer that when it's true, Hmm. 398 00:37:14,18.9750149 --> 00:37:16,958.9750149 so that it builds that self-confidence also in the product. 399 00:37:17,48.9750149 --> 00:37:17,288.9750149 Um. 400 00:37:17,663.9750149 --> 00:37:18,503.9750149 It's very important. 401 00:37:18,503.9750149 --> 00:37:24,83.9750149 And you know what? That was like a beautiful gift that this person gave me. 402 00:37:24,413.9750149 --> 00:37:26,753.9750149 And when I see it fit, I say that. 403 00:37:26,888.9750149 --> 00:37:30,398.9750149 At this point, I wouldn't take and act anything. 404 00:37:31,88.9750149 --> 00:37:31,538.9750149 Okay. 405 00:37:31,538.9750149 --> 00:37:36,98.9750149 And it's very nice because I see what it made to me, which is this confidence. 406 00:37:36,158.9750149 --> 00:37:42,878.9750149 And I don't see it like, I don't give it easily, but I, I also know what it made for me. 407 00:37:42,878.9750149 --> 00:37:48,668.9750149 I didn't forgot, you know, I didn't forget these words that, that this, this person gave me. 408 00:37:48,668.9750149 --> 00:37:52,58.9750149 So it's a present, you know, and it's also builds confi. 409 00:37:52,88.9750149 --> 00:37:53,558.9750149 It's important to build confidence. 410 00:37:53,798.9750149 --> 00:38:01,58.9750149 And I wanted to say like about books that I remember recently done in this process, which is one by one, one-on-one. 411 00:38:01,88.9750149 --> 00:38:01,478.9750149 I'm sorry. 412 00:38:02,78.9750149 --> 00:38:13,478.9750149 It's, uh, it was with the poet and singer, just singer Lola in Seville and this beautiful, amazing author and like artist. 413 00:38:14,18.9750149 --> 00:38:16,448.9750149 She made a book about her parents. 414 00:38:17,93.9750149 --> 00:38:22,868.9750149 And, and about, uh, grieving this process of grief? No, when, when they died. 415 00:38:23,378.9750149 --> 00:38:31,598.9750149 So the process was so intimate then that I, I felt I was healing through the editing of this book. 416 00:38:32,258.9750149 --> 00:38:35,558.9750149 And we used to like, go poem by, by, um, poem by poem. 417 00:38:36,248.9750149 --> 00:38:37,718.9750149 And some destroyed me. 418 00:38:37,718.9750149 --> 00:38:41,918.9750149 Like they wanted to make me just like, cry with her. 419 00:38:41,918.9750149 --> 00:38:45,608.9750149 But then it was like, okay, don't lose focus of the job. 420 00:38:45,968.9750149 --> 00:38:46,388.9750149 Okay. 421 00:38:46,898.9750149 --> 00:38:52,883.9750149 But then I could, if I have the chance, I would say to her today was very, it was so hard. 422 00:38:52,883.9750149 --> 00:38:53,858.9750149 It was so intense. 423 00:38:53,978.9750149 --> 00:38:55,328.9750149 Thank you for sharing. 424 00:38:56,318.9750149 --> 00:38:57,548.9750149 Because we don't say that anymore. 425 00:38:57,548.9750149 --> 00:38:58,58.9750149 It's like. 426 00:38:58,628.9750149 --> 00:39:00,128.9750149 Thank you for sharing this. 427 00:39:00,128.9750149 --> 00:39:09,758.9750149 Thank you for, for being so, uh, courageous, uh, to, to, to show this, to work in this and to also, she, she made it a poem. 428 00:39:09,788.9750149 --> 00:39:10,868.9750149 It's a poetry book. 429 00:39:11,168.9750149 --> 00:39:16,418.9750149 She published it and she made a, a play, like a theater piece. 430 00:39:16,448.9750149 --> 00:39:24,938.9750149 Theater piece and as cd, so she connected theater, theater, music, and poetry. 431 00:39:26,228.9750149 --> 00:39:28,778.9750149 Beautifully made with a lot of sense. 432 00:39:29,888.9750149 --> 00:39:31,808.9750149 You know, it has, it had sense. 433 00:39:32,438.9750149 --> 00:39:44,828.9750149 So I connected emotionally and, and I was very like, I, I really, I really like, I, I came in a way to the process of editing and I came out different. 434 00:39:46,268.9750149 --> 00:39:47,198.9750149 It was amazing. 435 00:39:47,198.9750149 --> 00:39:47,588.9750149 Yeah. 436 00:39:48,323.9750149 --> 00:39:49,613.9750149 About that grieving process. 437 00:39:49,613.9750149 --> 00:40:04,283.9750149 Also, she opened a space for people she knew that had maybe a, a loss and invited them to send her an audio record telling or sharing something about this process, this grieving process. 438 00:40:04,853.9750149 --> 00:40:09,713.9750149 And she, she, she knew a little bit of my story and she asked me, would you like to share? And I said, of course. 439 00:40:09,923.9750149 --> 00:40:12,773.9750149 And some told me I couldn't go because I was working. 440 00:40:12,773.9750149 --> 00:40:21,143.9750149 But some told me that in the theater, in the play concert, she put, uh, one of the recordings and one of them was me talking about my experience. 441 00:40:21,563.9750149 --> 00:40:23,603.9750149 So like full circle? No. 442 00:40:25,173.9750149 --> 00:40:35,13.9750149 I am, I'm struck by an image of the editorial encounter as the meeting of two subjectivities, one, the author and, and the other, uh, an interlocutor that. 443 00:40:36,53.9750149 --> 00:40:42,533.9750149 That organizes the dialogue a little bit more perhaps, or adds to it when it's chosen as an editor for a reason. 444 00:40:42,533.9750149 --> 00:40:54,263.9750149 Right? For, for your capacity to, to listen, to engage and to be touched by, to be, to almost like, be in the therapeutic sense of an, an emptiness that welcomes the fullness of the other. 445 00:40:54,503.9750149 --> 00:41:00,173.9750149 You empty yourself out so that the other story can enter you and you can be in conversation with it. 446 00:41:00,533.9750149 --> 00:41:04,973.9750149 Um, you, you mentioned earlier that you stopped writing a bit, or you're doing less of it now. 447 00:41:04,973.9750149 --> 00:41:07,813.9750149 Maybe you're doing more support of others and, and Yeah. 448 00:41:07,883.9750149 --> 00:41:14,543.9750149 artistic projects, but you stopped writing, you said, because you felt you needed to live in order to write. 449 00:41:14,843.9750149 --> 00:41:15,763.9750149 I wonder if Yeah. 450 00:41:15,803.9750149 --> 00:41:17,63.9750149 speak to that a little bit. 451 00:41:17,393.9750149 --> 00:41:23,888.9750149 Uh, what, what did you mean by that? How, I mean, I think when you are in a writing process. 452 00:41:25,28.9750149 --> 00:41:27,308.9750149 I feel there's like an abstraction of reality. 453 00:41:27,908.9750149 --> 00:41:37,208.9750149 It's kind of, I don't know if, if the word is meditation, but you install yourself, or at least that happens to me and I feel very lucky that that happens to me. 454 00:41:37,658.9750149 --> 00:41:46,358.9750149 But when inspiration and work both strike me, it's, it's, it's a phenomenon. 455 00:41:46,778.9750149 --> 00:41:47,78.9750149 Okay. 456 00:41:47,318.9750149 --> 00:41:59,948.9750149 So maybe it happens when I'm gonna about to sleep, something pops in my mind and I remember one of my, like when I write something that was very inspired without even light, I just start writing. 457 00:42:00,338.9750149 --> 00:42:05,138.9750149 Like I'm taking almost like, uh, message from someone. 458 00:42:05,198.9750149 --> 00:42:06,968.9750149 Like words start coming easily. 459 00:42:06,968.9750149 --> 00:42:17,618.9750149 What I want to say, what I'm remembering, almost like, uh, yeah, like a bit of a, what do you say when you are like on drugs? Kind of, uh, another state of mind. 460 00:42:19,688.9750149 --> 00:42:24,908.9750149 And actually this, this exists in, uh, neuroscientific because I love neuroscience obviously too. 461 00:42:25,448.9750149 --> 00:42:33,458.9750149 In the process of knowing a little bit more, more about consciousness, uh, and consi consciousness and conscience, it is two different words. 462 00:42:33,458.9750149 --> 00:42:35,948.9750149 No, you, you, you, and conscience. 463 00:42:35,948.9750149 --> 00:42:36,398.9750149 Yes. 464 00:42:36,638.9750149 --> 00:42:37,448.9750149 consciousness and unconscious. 465 00:42:37,448.9750149 --> 00:42:37,688.9750149 Yeah. 466 00:42:38,48.9750149 --> 00:42:44,108.9750149 So, uh, there is a process in the brain, which is the state of flow. 467 00:42:44,648.9750149 --> 00:42:45,878.9750149 And many people talk about this. 468 00:42:45,878.9750149 --> 00:42:55,568.9750149 So the state of flow is this moment of inspiration that it can be also, um, how do you say? Like you can give it to others. 469 00:42:55,778.9750149 --> 00:42:56,978.9750149 That happens in music. 470 00:42:57,578.9750149 --> 00:42:58,568.9750149 That happens in music. 471 00:42:58,598.9750149 --> 00:43:03,668.9750149 And that happens also in, for example, a creative writing group or in a yoga group. 472 00:43:03,848.9750149 --> 00:43:05,228.9750149 Like there's a unity. 473 00:43:05,228.9750149 --> 00:43:10,598.9750149 No, there's, when there's a collective, this state of mind gets to other people. 474 00:43:10,958.9750149 --> 00:43:15,818.9750149 That's when I talk about energy and um, you said conscious. 475 00:43:15,878.9750149 --> 00:43:16,28.9750149 Yeah. 476 00:43:17,93.9750149 --> 00:43:17,663.9750149 Concise. 477 00:43:17,818.9750149 --> 00:43:18,668.9750149 Consciousness. 478 00:43:18,808.9750149 --> 00:43:19,28.9750149 Yes. 479 00:43:19,928.9750149 --> 00:43:20,453.9750149 Yes, yes, yes. 480 00:43:20,873.9750149 --> 00:43:33,713.9750149 And I think, I believe that, um, these processes can be produced, but then, but then also they can be also just like, okay, I welcome this process. 481 00:43:34,163.9750149 --> 00:43:39,743.9750149 So it can be, you can do it of course, but you can also stay. 482 00:43:40,403.9750149 --> 00:43:40,733.9750149 Okay. 483 00:43:40,733.9750149 --> 00:43:43,133.9750149 I don't wanna get into that right now. 484 00:43:43,133.9750149 --> 00:43:43,733.9750149 Mm-hmm. 485 00:43:44,388.9750149 --> 00:43:46,433.9750149 And I think many people do that also. 486 00:43:46,433.9750149 --> 00:43:50,273.9750149 I think everyone has the capacity to write, to do poetry, to paint. 487 00:43:50,603.9750149 --> 00:43:53,153.9750149 They just choose not to do it because they don't need it. 488 00:43:53,153.9750149 --> 00:43:54,803.9750149 Maybe in that moment of their life. 489 00:43:55,283.9750149 --> 00:44:02,813.9750149 Right now, what I feel is that I'm choosing not to get into that state of mind for any, I don't know the reason. 490 00:44:03,173.9750149 --> 00:44:05,993.9750149 I just know that I want to experience different things. 491 00:44:07,313.9750149 --> 00:44:18,203.9750149 Not in that state of mind because my writings began to look very alike, like a copy of myself. 492 00:44:18,683.9750149 --> 00:44:21,863.9750149 And I think that's a phenomenon that also happens when you write a lot. 493 00:44:21,863.9750149 --> 00:44:26,753.9750149 You publish a lot and you kind of get, you discover a little bit, kind of a formula. 494 00:44:26,963.9750149 --> 00:44:29,693.9750149 Ooh, people like this, they're publishing it. 495 00:44:29,693.9750149 --> 00:44:33,683.9750149 And I'm not putting money like my last five or six books. 496 00:44:33,863.9750149 --> 00:44:34,823.9750149 They just do it. 497 00:44:34,823.9750149 --> 00:44:35,633.9750149 They sell it. 498 00:44:35,813.9750149 --> 00:44:42,323.9750149 And I just go and present the book like, hello, I did this and I, I didn't do anything, I just did the book. 499 00:44:42,593.9750149 --> 00:44:43,613.9750149 So that's beautiful. 500 00:44:43,668.9750149 --> 00:44:47,153.9750149 But then you can get a, a, a little bit of a, like a comfort zone. 501 00:44:47,813.9750149 --> 00:44:56,93.9750149 And what I feel is sometimes that could mean that your work could be like over vigilant of yourself. 502 00:44:56,93.9750149 --> 00:45:01,343.9750149 Like, you know, that they, like when you talk about this unconsciously. 503 00:45:02,453.9750149 --> 00:45:08,423.9750149 So that for me, messes with the quality of the work. 504 00:45:08,813.9750149 --> 00:45:09,173.9750149 Okay. 505 00:45:09,383.9750149 --> 00:45:20,723.9750149 So right now what I feel more into is, uh, creating songs, creating music, and music has taken an important place in my life. 506 00:45:21,713.9750149 --> 00:45:22,613.9750149 Uh, yeah. 507 00:45:22,763.9750149 --> 00:45:26,453.9750149 So writing is a little bit like, I know that's there, it's my secret garden. 508 00:45:26,933.9750149 --> 00:45:30,623.9750149 It's there that rose that image. 509 00:45:31,253.9750149 --> 00:45:35,153.9750149 It's there for me now and I'm sharing it, sharing it in another way. 510 00:45:35,153.9750149 --> 00:45:43,613.9750149 For example, recently I, we went, uh, on a small tour with the band that I have where, where I sing and where I play some instruments, liberte. 511 00:45:44,303.9750149 --> 00:45:48,863.9750149 And my, my book, one of my books was published in German. 512 00:45:49,433.9750149 --> 00:45:50,243.9750149 It's a translation. 513 00:45:50,798.9750149 --> 00:45:52,238.9750149 It's my first translation ever. 514 00:45:52,568.9750149 --> 00:45:53,738.9750149 So I was enjoying that. 515 00:45:53,738.9750149 --> 00:46:05,618.9750149 No, like saying, okay, some of the books that I've already done, like written and published, they're having their own curse and I'm so lucky to see what's going on with them. 516 00:46:06,8.9750149 --> 00:46:07,628.9750149 Like, there's life after me. 517 00:46:08,168.9750149 --> 00:46:09,428.9750149 I'm not doing anything anymore. 518 00:46:09,428.9750149 --> 00:46:11,318.9750149 Like the words are already, already there. 519 00:46:11,768.9750149 --> 00:46:17,768.9750149 Uh, the translator, by the way, Maya TriNet, she's a philosopher, and I was like, I love it. 520 00:46:17,768.9750149 --> 00:46:29,558.9750149 How, how, how did that book got to a, the hands of Argentinian but German based, uh, philosopher and translator. 521 00:46:30,68.9750149 --> 00:46:31,298.9750149 And it was fascinating. 522 00:46:31,298.9750149 --> 00:46:42,278.9750149 It was fascinating to see, to have in my hands a book that I don't understand and it's my book with my words, with my feelings, with my life. 523 00:46:42,788.9750149 --> 00:46:43,958.9750149 And I just see symbols. 524 00:46:45,68.9750149 --> 00:47:03,668.9750149 Well, I understand the names, like se I understand the names of the people that I maybe, um, dedicate one of Orone and I can see like Machu Picchu and the word, uh, cosmos and maybe some words I don't, I don't like, I just, and I love German. 525 00:47:03,673.9750149 --> 00:47:08,738.9750149 I, I, I actually learned a little bit when I was like, um, uh, yeah. 526 00:47:08,738.9750149 --> 00:47:09,308.9750149 Younger. 527 00:47:09,578.9750149 --> 00:47:12,428.9750149 I don't remember anything like, so yeah. 528 00:47:12,428.9750149 --> 00:47:16,238.9750149 And so I, I have the book in my hands and it's like, okay, I understand my name. 529 00:47:17,168.9750149 --> 00:47:17,738.9750149 But that's it. 530 00:47:18,38.9750149 --> 00:47:18,848.9750149 It's beautiful. 531 00:47:18,878.9750149 --> 00:47:20,18.9750149 It's a beautiful miracle. 532 00:47:20,138.9750149 --> 00:47:21,458.9750149 I'm super thankful for that. 533 00:47:22,553.9750149 --> 00:47:26,863.9750149 You've been speaking about this transition from writing to music, Mm-hmm. 534 00:47:27,983.9750149 --> 00:47:33,113.9750149 O opens up or expands maybe is a better word, a chapter in your life. 535 00:47:33,143.9750149 --> 00:47:39,83.9750149 You've always been connected to music from what I understand, but this was, um, you jumped into the pool. 536 00:47:39,143.9750149 --> 00:47:57,443.9750149 A little bit more over the last few years, what do you think, uh, you know, led you to, to those waters? What do you think led you to decide that you, or to be drawn to, I dunno, if you decided, maybe you were just drawn to, to, to music both your own and, and, and collective music with others. 537 00:47:57,593.9750149 --> 00:48:07,373.9750149 What drew you to, to engage in this form of expression? Yeah, I think, um, music for me has always been. 538 00:48:07,913.9750149 --> 00:48:11,993.9750149 A connection, like a bridge towards my father. 539 00:48:12,593.9750149 --> 00:48:12,893.9750149 Okay. 540 00:48:12,893.9750149 --> 00:48:23,273.9750149 So my father, he was a musician before we were born, my sister and I, and he was like a guitar, classical guitar player when he was young. 541 00:48:23,483.9750149 --> 00:48:31,103.9750149 He got into the Mexico conservatoire when he was like very, very young, playing like classical guitar. 542 00:48:31,763.9750149 --> 00:48:35,3.9750149 So he also composed some things. 543 00:48:35,3.9750149 --> 00:48:38,963.9750149 Also, he played like the typical thing not playing in parties, in weddings. 544 00:48:38,963.9750149 --> 00:48:47,423.9750149 The typical thing, not just to to, to do something, uh, with it, with that more professional, but then when, when he. 545 00:48:47,978.9750149 --> 00:48:50,498.9750149 Also had another career, which was like chemistry. 546 00:48:50,498.9750149 --> 00:48:51,908.9750149 He makes flavors. 547 00:48:52,268.9750149 --> 00:48:53,78.9750149 It's very interesting. 548 00:48:53,78.9750149 --> 00:48:57,8.9750149 My, my father is very like a, a renaissance kind of man. 549 00:48:57,98.9750149 --> 00:49:00,8.9750149 He also likes to invent musician. 550 00:49:00,518.9750149 --> 00:49:05,138.9750149 Uh, he now got, got into 3D model and he makes like sculptures. 551 00:49:05,168.9750149 --> 00:49:06,368.9750149 Like, he's very interesting. 552 00:49:06,428.9750149 --> 00:49:18,338.9750149 And I think when I was 12 years old, before that, I used to play a little bit of piano, classical piano, because my sister played piano and I didn't wanna get, uh, behind, stay behind. 553 00:49:18,758.9750149 --> 00:49:20,288.9750149 So I, I started piano. 554 00:49:20,288.9750149 --> 00:49:20,768.9750149 Also. 555 00:49:20,768.9750149 --> 00:49:22,898.9750149 I liked ballet because I love ballet too. 556 00:49:22,898.9750149 --> 00:49:23,798.9750149 I love dancing. 557 00:49:23,858.9750149 --> 00:49:25,328.9750149 I love flamenco dancing too. 558 00:49:25,718.9750149 --> 00:49:35,528.9750149 I used to dance flamenco, but with ballet, I remember that, that my mom took me to see a class and I saw the pianist and I saw, no, I want to study piano, not the ballet. 559 00:49:35,888.9750149 --> 00:49:42,248.9750149 So I decided that like at eight and I play a little bit of piano with, with my sister. 560 00:49:42,278.9750149 --> 00:49:45,158.9750149 Sometimes we make like duets Mozart. 561 00:49:45,248.9750149 --> 00:49:45,998.9750149 Very, very nice. 562 00:49:46,28.9750149 --> 00:49:46,418.9750149 I mean. 563 00:49:47,273.9750149 --> 00:49:52,343.9750149 This was my, my entering music by piano and reading and classical music. 564 00:49:52,343.9750149 --> 00:49:54,263.9750149 That was a strong entrance to music. 565 00:49:55,253.9750149 --> 00:50:04,763.9750149 Then I met this first love, uh, David and I got into this band when I was 12. 566 00:50:05,333.9750149 --> 00:50:10,973.9750149 So I music became something more like a love connection. 567 00:50:11,33.9750149 --> 00:50:15,653.9750149 No, like I'm in love for the first time and music was there. 568 00:50:15,683.9750149 --> 00:50:25,313.9750149 You know, like the first covers we did about was like Nirvana and Blink 180 2 and know like very grunch, no, very rock and roll. 569 00:50:25,883.9750149 --> 00:50:35,393.9750149 And I remember that I came with my dad, which he already is, and was a musician, and I told him like, dad, I'm the bass player of a band. 570 00:50:35,423.9750149 --> 00:50:36,23.9750149 I need a bass. 571 00:50:37,523.9750149 --> 00:50:40,493.9750149 And he was super happy because he used to play the bass also. 572 00:50:40,493.9750149 --> 00:50:40,733.9750149 No. 573 00:50:40,973.9750149 --> 00:50:45,473.9750149 So he showed me my first songs in guitar and in the bass. 574 00:50:46,433.9750149 --> 00:50:52,703.9750149 And so I, I saw, okay, music connects me to very important men in my life. 575 00:50:53,123.9750149 --> 00:51:00,323.9750149 Okay? So it was a way of communicating with, with people that I loved, especially with men. 576 00:51:00,413.9750149 --> 00:51:04,703.9750149 Okay? This is important I think, in a psychological, uh, level. 577 00:51:04,703.9750149 --> 00:51:05,3.9750149 No. 578 00:51:05,918.9750149 --> 00:51:20,468.9750149 So then this, this guy was still in my life only as a friend, but he stayed in my life for 15 years as a friend, important friend, and we used to have conversations about God, about life. 579 00:51:20,948.9750149 --> 00:51:28,598.9750149 I think he was kind of a, I remember him as this guide of the tribe, you know, like a shaman. 580 00:51:28,628.9750149 --> 00:51:30,608.9750149 I used to call him, you're like a shaman. 581 00:51:30,938.9750149 --> 00:51:35,768.9750149 Like he had so much power in the sense of spiritual power. 582 00:51:36,68.9750149 --> 00:51:39,938.9750149 Obviously he liked to experiment with PE and marijuana. 583 00:51:40,88.9750149 --> 00:51:45,998.9750149 He already had a tattoo at 14, like he was very. 584 00:51:46,438.9750149 --> 00:51:47,908.9750149 Ahead of his age. 585 00:51:47,968.9750149 --> 00:51:48,328.9750149 Okay. 586 00:51:48,838.9750149 --> 00:51:51,328.9750149 Then he, he went out of school. 587 00:51:51,358.9750149 --> 00:51:56,488.9750149 I mean, they, they kick him out of school because he was super revel and they kick him out. 588 00:51:56,968.9750149 --> 00:52:03,508.9750149 And then I saw him, like in periods of a year passed, and I saw him two years passed, and I saw him again. 589 00:52:03,748.9750149 --> 00:52:05,488.9750149 Three years passed, and I saw him again. 590 00:52:05,728.9750149 --> 00:52:13,318.9750149 And then I went to Spain and we kept riding each other until one day he tell, he told me like, I felt the same for you. 591 00:52:13,318.9750149 --> 00:52:15,448.9750149 Like I, I I was drawn to you. 592 00:52:16,468.9750149 --> 00:52:19,18.9750149 And it was beautiful because I felt okay. 593 00:52:19,18.9750149 --> 00:52:20,488.9750149 It was not in my imagination. 594 00:52:20,638.9750149 --> 00:52:26,278.9750149 No, like the love, romantic love, but of course we always were only friends. 595 00:52:26,368.9750149 --> 00:52:31,768.9750149 Okay? So this platonic, no love was very linked to music. 596 00:52:32,68.9750149 --> 00:52:33,778.9750149 And then he passed away. 597 00:52:34,258.9750149 --> 00:52:44,578.9750149 He passed away on 2020, on the end of 2020, on November, very suddenly, uh, sadly, he, he committed suicide. 598 00:52:45,833.9750149 --> 00:53:02,453.9750149 And it was like, I mean, for me, I, I think it's being like the hardest, the hardest pain, the hardest loss, because I already lost my, my grandfa, my grandparents, but they were all, you know, like one natural deaths. 599 00:53:02,903.9750149 --> 00:53:08,303.9750149 But this was like unbelievably painful and saddened. 600 00:53:09,83.9750149 --> 00:53:18,773.9750149 So in 2021, just a few months after his loss, like three months, I was very sad, maybe even depressed. 601 00:53:19,133.9750149 --> 00:53:20,483.9750149 And I was like, I wanna sing. 602 00:53:21,353.9750149 --> 00:53:29,303.9750149 But what I really wanted is to cry when you wanna shout and cry, but I want it to be very loud. 603 00:53:30,143.9750149 --> 00:53:31,883.9750149 But I wanted to be beautiful. 604 00:53:33,848.9750149 --> 00:53:38,498.9750149 So, so I, I started, and I think that's around the time we met. 605 00:53:38,918.9750149 --> 00:53:44,468.9750149 I started with jazz classes, Ja, vocal jazz, to learn to sing jazz. 606 00:53:45,98.9750149 --> 00:53:51,878.9750149 And this changed my life, to connect me to life again because I was really sad. 607 00:53:52,568.9750149 --> 00:53:58,658.9750149 And of course it was like a mean of communication with maybe with this person after his death. 608 00:53:58,718.9750149 --> 00:53:59,168.9750149 No. 609 00:53:59,948.9750149 --> 00:54:15,128.9750149 It was like, okay, I'm taking some kind of, um, testify, no, what, what maybe our dreams were when we were, um, adolescent teenagers. 610 00:54:15,398.9750149 --> 00:54:19,733.9750149 If you see my life actually just taking what I wanted when I was. 611 00:54:20,483.9750149 --> 00:54:28,283.9750149 A child and what I wanted when I was, uh, a teenage, it's like everything is there in my current activities. 612 00:54:28,763.9750149 --> 00:54:32,3.9750149 I already wanted that when I was in that, in that time. 613 00:54:32,273.9750149 --> 00:54:33,593.9750149 But now it has more sense. 614 00:54:33,593.9750149 --> 00:54:34,403.9750149 No, of course. 615 00:54:34,583.9750149 --> 00:54:35,543.9750149 Has more sense. 616 00:54:35,603.9750149 --> 00:54:52,163.9750149 And with music, I became, uh, there was a point where I started getting a lot of affections, uh, uh, affected, uh, amygdala, you know, Vocal chords you mean? you know, the Boca calls the ones that are here, there's a right. 617 00:54:52,493.9750149 --> 00:54:54,563.9750149 Remember the tonsils? Maybe tonsils. 618 00:54:54,778.9750149 --> 00:54:55,558.9750149 Maybe, yes. 619 00:54:55,573.9750149 --> 00:54:55,693.9750149 I. 620 00:54:58,148.9750149 --> 00:55:00,113.9750149 So I wanted even to remove them. 621 00:55:00,113.9750149 --> 00:55:02,303.9750149 I was like, you are not touching this. 622 00:55:02,303.9750149 --> 00:55:05,453.9750149 And, and I've been resisting. 623 00:55:05,693.9750149 --> 00:55:10,343.9750149 But in the end, uh, I went to like, uh, different people that helped me. 624 00:55:10,343.9750149 --> 00:55:12,233.9750149 Like I, I, I went to different doctors. 625 00:55:12,593.9750149 --> 00:55:14,663.9750149 I think it was the grieving process. 626 00:55:15,203.9750149 --> 00:55:16,103.9750149 I think it was just. 627 00:55:16,898.9750149 --> 00:55:17,528.9750149 Pain. 628 00:55:17,798.9750149 --> 00:55:20,318.9750149 I mean, it's connected to how he died. 629 00:55:20,318.9750149 --> 00:55:21,938.9750149 So it's everything here. 630 00:55:22,358.9750149 --> 00:55:44,918.9750149 And then I, what I did was someone told me very, very, like therapeutically when I was working with my vocal horse and with my boys and told me, what is your connection to music? And I told her, I think it's the loss of someone very important to me, a friend, a master, like a teacher, and someone I loved when I was a child. 631 00:55:45,728.9750149 --> 00:55:57,788.9750149 Okay? At some point I really wish for you that you relate to music in the joy and the life aspect and your individual experience. 632 00:55:58,358.9750149 --> 00:56:06,968.9750149 You, I suggest you, you should disconnect this traumatic thing that happened to a loved one. 633 00:56:07,658.9750149 --> 00:56:11,738.9750149 And just take your present and your gift and enjoy. 634 00:56:12,563.9750149 --> 00:56:13,163.9750149 Okay. 635 00:56:13,403.9750149 --> 00:56:14,663.9750149 It was a powerful moment. 636 00:56:14,663.9750149 --> 00:56:17,993.9750149 I cry, you know, all of that revelation, therapeutic moment. 637 00:56:18,293.9750149 --> 00:56:26,423.9750149 And then I started taking the music in, uh, from another perspective, because I used to ch chant. 638 00:56:26,483.9750149 --> 00:56:37,823.9750149 I used to sing and cry because there was all of that process, but then it transformed into an art, and then it transformed into this. 639 00:56:37,823.9750149 --> 00:56:40,973.9750149 Like, I don't see it as a professional approach. 640 00:56:41,363.9750149 --> 00:56:44,243.9750149 I see it more as a passion that I have. 641 00:56:44,873.9750149 --> 00:56:48,953.9750149 Hobbies is, is, I think it stays like small now. 642 00:56:49,138.9750149 --> 00:56:52,913.9750149 I, I would say hobby, but it's a passion that I have. 643 00:56:53,603.9750149 --> 00:56:54,893.9750149 It's something that I love to do also. 644 00:56:55,643.9750149 --> 00:56:56,603.9750149 So, yeah. 645 00:56:56,723.9750149 --> 00:57:01,463.9750149 And collectively, it, it also made me feel supported by people, you know. 646 00:57:01,673.9750149 --> 00:57:04,163.9750149 Now, my, my band, they're like brothers and sisters. 647 00:57:04,583.9750149 --> 00:57:05,453.9750149 It's like a family. 648 00:57:05,963.9750149 --> 00:57:10,733.9750149 you guys just came back from, uh, being on tour in Belgium and Germany. 649 00:57:11,123.9750149 --> 00:57:19,763.9750149 Uh, I'd love to hear about what it was like to be with others who, uh, you you called singing beautiful shouting, which I thought was lovely. 650 00:57:20,48.9750149 --> 00:57:20,468.9750149 Mm-hmm. 651 00:57:20,753.9750149 --> 00:57:24,563.9750149 and for each of them, perhaps it's beautiful noise, you know, whatever it is that they're creating. 652 00:57:24,863.9750149 --> 00:57:32,843.9750149 What is it like to be with others who have, who share this passion? And, uh, you guys got along so well, which is hard to do, I think, when you're traveling with a group of people for so long. 653 00:57:33,143.9750149 --> 00:57:46,403.9750149 Uh, what, what were the, the rules of that? The rules or the, the secrets of that experience? So, of course it's difficult because everyone has their own relationship with music, right? Everyone has their own dream about music. 654 00:57:46,673.9750149 --> 00:57:49,683.9750149 Maybe I don't have a very professional, uh. 655 00:57:50,123.9750149 --> 00:57:51,263.9750149 Way of looking it. 656 00:57:51,533.9750149 --> 00:57:59,873.9750149 I have another approach, maybe more spiritual or therapeutic, and other, other members of the band have other approaches. 657 00:58:00,503.9750149 --> 00:58:14,183.9750149 I think at the beginning it was hard because we, uh, also perform in bil when we can maybe one concert per month, one concert every two months, but we rehearse every Friday. 658 00:58:14,393.9750149 --> 00:58:19,13.9750149 Like these people is people that I see no matter how occupied I am. 659 00:58:19,343.9750149 --> 00:58:20,513.9750149 We always rehearse. 660 00:58:20,993.9750149 --> 00:58:25,853.9750149 We try to every Friday, like that's the, that the structure. 661 00:58:26,363.9750149 --> 00:58:34,193.9750149 So we already know, uh, each other very well, but, um, you, you know what they say, you wanna know someone go and take a trip with them. 662 00:58:35,183.9750149 --> 00:58:43,943.9750149 So when you travel, every little aspect of the personality gets a bit like widened and they can clash a little bit. 663 00:58:43,943.9750149 --> 00:58:44,243.9750149 No. 664 00:58:44,543.9750149 --> 00:58:50,453.9750149 So yeah, at the beginning it was hard, especially between the guitar player and me because we are like brother and sister. 665 00:58:50,453.9750149 --> 00:58:55,373.9750149 So there's a lot of, um, like we know each other's trauma. 666 00:58:55,493.9750149 --> 00:59:02,753.9750149 He's a psychologist, so he knows that I have that issues, that I have, uh, problems with people telling me what to do. 667 00:59:02,753.9750149 --> 00:59:05,33.9750149 So he tries to be like very gentle. 668 00:59:06,263.9750149 --> 00:59:12,953.9750149 But then I have a, a, a sweet, I, I am a sweet person by definition, but I also can be explosive. 669 00:59:13,253.9750149 --> 00:59:17,543.9750149 And when something I don't, I don't like something, you can see it in all my energy. 670 00:59:17,978.9750149 --> 00:59:21,338.9750149 And that can be a little bit, all Sophie transformed, she's now mad. 671 00:59:21,398.9750149 --> 00:59:21,638.9750149 No. 672 00:59:21,848.9750149 --> 00:59:23,678.9750149 Or she's not very happy. 673 00:59:24,98.9750149 --> 00:59:25,478.9750149 But then we talked about it. 674 00:59:25,988.9750149 --> 00:59:29,708.9750149 Hey, look, I saw you were a bit of uncomfortable. 675 00:59:29,708.9750149 --> 00:59:44,648.9750149 Were you, was, was there something wrong? And then our conversations were so nice because it was like, yeah, it's not you, it's me, it's it, this, that you comment on the rehearsal, re remind me of this, of the past. 676 00:59:45,458.9750149 --> 00:59:49,118.9750149 It's like, like, but not from you, but from other people in my life. 677 00:59:49,118.9750149 --> 00:59:49,418.9750149 No. 678 00:59:49,418.9750149 --> 00:59:54,548.9750149 So it's beautiful because we are already so work like we are not, uh, teens anymore. 679 00:59:54,578.9750149 --> 00:59:54,818.9750149 No. 680 00:59:55,88.9750149 --> 00:59:57,968.9750149 And we are very responsible of our own baggage. 681 00:59:58,358.9750149 --> 01:00:02,168.9750149 So that's what I think happens in the tour also with other people in the band. 682 01:00:02,498.9750149 --> 01:00:03,758.9750149 There was connections. 683 01:00:03,758.9750149 --> 01:00:16,298.9750149 There was more like ization maybe in, in each one story or like, I think it's, it was a way of seeing how also this was kind of a, like a collective, uh, therapy. 684 01:00:17,78.9750149 --> 01:00:33,878.9750149 Because what the results were beautiful on stage and people used to say like, wow, we can see, like, the music was great, but the thing that we enjoyed most in the performance was the connection between you. 685 01:00:34,208.9750149 --> 01:00:37,658.9750149 It seems like you really like to hear one another. 686 01:00:38,258.9750149 --> 01:00:40,628.9750149 You really enjoy one another. 687 01:00:41,738.9750149 --> 01:00:42,758.9750149 It was beautiful. 688 01:00:43,148.9750149 --> 01:00:52,568.9750149 And so there's also like a job in ego because everyone tries to have their own like, uh, master or their own talent shown. 689 01:00:52,808.9750149 --> 01:00:59,198.9750149 So the, the show is very like trying to connect, like there's no only one people doing something. 690 01:00:59,438.9750149 --> 01:01:09,488.9750149 For example, I sing, but then I go to the precautions, quiet listening, or maybe the violinist, which is Nana, she's from Germany. 691 01:01:09,488.9750149 --> 01:01:09,578.9750149 She's. 692 01:01:10,163.9750149 --> 01:01:11,873.9750149 An amazing musician in person. 693 01:01:12,233.9750149 --> 01:01:19,103.9750149 Sometimes she goes to the main, like with a guitar and she sings and it's like, Ooh, this band is moving around. 694 01:01:19,523.9750149 --> 01:01:23,33.9750149 Or maybe the clarinetist also sings okay. 695 01:01:23,33.9750149 --> 01:01:23,963.9750149 Like everyone is. 696 01:01:24,383.9750149 --> 01:01:25,823.9750149 It's not just one person show. 697 01:01:26,753.9750149 --> 01:01:27,443.9750149 It's beautiful. 698 01:01:27,473.9750149 --> 01:01:40,433.9750149 I think that's working also with the, with the whole box of, of jewels and having each one of the members have their special moment and also listen to each other. 699 01:01:40,523.9750149 --> 01:01:47,243.9750149 That's the most important thing in a collective work, either being a band or a theater play or whatever. 700 01:01:47,873.9750149 --> 01:01:49,433.9750149 Listen to each other. 701 01:01:49,763.9750149 --> 01:01:50,303.9750149 Very important. 702 01:01:50,978.9750149 --> 01:01:55,133.9750149 They come for the music and they come for the relationship Yeah. 703 01:01:55,793.9750149 --> 01:01:56,453.9750149 I. 704 01:01:56,873.9750149 --> 01:02:02,843.9750149 Wonder what the poetic attitude is there for you in music I. 705 01:02:03,638.9750149 --> 01:02:04,208.9750149 Mm. 706 01:02:04,268.9750149 --> 01:02:05,348.9750149 Completely poetic. 707 01:02:05,588.9750149 --> 01:02:13,928.9750149 I mean, the thing that I like about music, for example, in Belgium, we not did only like concerts, we did also music, street music playing. 708 01:02:14,828.9750149 --> 01:02:15,458.9750149 That's hard. 709 01:02:15,998.9750149 --> 01:02:21,68.9750149 It's hard because people might not want to hear you when they're walking through that street. 710 01:02:21,518.9750149 --> 01:02:27,938.9750149 People maybe are going through something difficult and maybe they, that's exactly what they needed to hear some music. 711 01:02:28,448.9750149 --> 01:02:32,348.9750149 So people are coming like come, coming and going. 712 01:02:33,518.9750149 --> 01:02:45,998.9750149 And what I like is that when you're doing music, maybe singing or maybe just playing or doing other stuff, like supporting the band, it's, it's like a way of being very present. 713 01:02:46,58.9750149 --> 01:02:47,978.9750149 Like music is being very present. 714 01:02:48,278.9750149 --> 01:02:50,528.9750149 So the poetic attitude is totally there. 715 01:02:50,528.9750149 --> 01:02:53,648.9750149 Like it, it moved me at some, sometimes. 716 01:02:54,23.9750149 --> 01:02:57,683.9750149 At some point that I cried because it was like life occurring. 717 01:02:58,463.9750149 --> 01:03:00,593.9750149 So the poem was that moment. 718 01:03:01,253.9750149 --> 01:03:03,663.9750149 Life occurring and me occurring for life has. 719 01:03:03,863.9750149 --> 01:03:04,343.9750149 Well, Yeah. 720 01:03:04,343.9750149 --> 01:03:05,513.9750149 You're there for that moment. 721 01:03:05,998.9750149 --> 01:03:06,288.9750149 Yeah. 722 01:03:06,923.9750149 --> 01:03:08,63.9750149 I want to thank you. 723 01:03:08,183.9750149 --> 01:03:11,363.9750149 I'm sure there are other branches of this chunk that we could keep exploring. 724 01:03:11,693.9750149 --> 01:03:19,283.9750149 Um, and I want to thank you by saying what you say to your students, it seems like to your, to your writers, thank you for sharing your story. 725 01:03:20,513.9750149 --> 01:03:21,173.9750149 Thank you, Dan. 726 01:03:21,173.9750149 --> 01:03:22,133.9750149 Thank you for listening. 727 01:03:22,433.9750149 --> 01:03:23,93.9750149 You're so sweet. 728 01:03:23,93.9750149 --> 01:03:23,453.9750149 Thank you. 729 01:03:23,453.9750149 --> 01:03:23,873.9750149 Thank you. 730 01:03:28,906.6271301 --> 01:03:29,956.6271301 Thanks for being here. 731 01:03:30,526.6271301 --> 01:03:38,56.6271301 If this conversation resonated with you, consider reviewing therapy for the world or sharing the link with someone who might appreciate it. 732 01:03:38,716.6271301 --> 01:03:42,166.6271301 Until next time, speak with care and listen deeply.