Yoga in Community, Listening Deeply, and Asking How (Not What) to Be

Sihnuu Hetep is a yoga and meditation guide, educator, grief companion, and mother. We talk about how personal loss, spiritual practice, and ancestral wisdom have shaped her approach to healing and teaching. Sihnuu reflects on her relationship with her grandfather, the experience of losing her father, and how these formative events opened the path toward a life guided by authenticity, passion, and care. We explore the difference between asking what we want to do and how we want to live, and how Sihnuu has built a practice centered on presence, intuition, and individual resonance. She shares her insights on trauma-informed yoga, the challenges of stepping into the wellness world as a young teacher, and the subtle ways yogic principles inform her parenting. One guiding principle is that the point isn't knowing everything, but honoring your own way and making space for others to do the same. Support the project: patreon.com/TherapyfortheWorld Music credits: “Limit 70,” licensed by Kevin MacLeod “Meditation” by Jules Massenet, from the Library of Congress Jukebox

Episode Transcript

(00:13):
Um, I know for me it was grief, you know, navigating grief with people. 5 00:00:19,65.000000001 --> 00:00:25,990 Um, also like using nature as a mirror, um, because of those, because those are my personal experiences.
And I think experiential knowledge is just as big as educational, um, or learned knowledge.

(00:34):
Um, so I think instructors should really lean on experiential knowledge as well as training because it'll give them more authenticity when, when they share their offerings, when they share their gifts. 8 00:00:58,430.176848728 --> 00:01:05,930.176848728 Welcome to Therapy for the World, an interview series with people working across the spectrum of self-care and world care. 9 00:01:06,590.176848728 --> 00:01:09,740.176848728 I'm Dan Sikorski, a writing teacher and therapist. 10 00:01:09,875.176848728 --> 00:01:17,575.176848728 And the other voice you hear is EP, a Yoga and Meditation Guide and Educator Grief Companion and Mother. 11 00:01:18,725.176848728 --> 00:01:22,985.176848728 We recorded this on July 17th at five in the afternoon. 12 00:01:23,555.176848728 --> 00:01:24,515.176848728 Here's our conversation. 13 00:01:40,174.65523831 --> 00:01:48,514.65523831 And I love the energy around you when we met at that class that you taught, uh, so many years ago, and I was looking forward to chatting with you. 14 00:01:49,264.65523831 --> 00:02:03,319.65523831 The question that I have been enjoying, starting with, and I wanna start with that question as well with you, is if you can think back to some experience or something in your early childhood that helped shape the person that you are today. 15 00:02:05,629.65523831 --> 00:02:10,699.65523831 Well, um, as many people know, I have a really strong relationship with my grandfather. 16 00:02:11,389.65523831 --> 00:02:16,279.65523831 Uh, when I was six years old, uh, my father was tragically killed. 17 00:02:16,879.65523831 --> 00:02:27,589.65523831 Um, and the strongest, the strongest relationship I had with a man in my life was my mother's father, who always poured love into me. 18 00:02:28,39.65523831 --> 00:02:36,769.65523831 Um, and I really felt cherished and praised and accepted for where I was in my entirety. 19 00:02:36,769.65523831 --> 00:02:56,809.65523831 So it was like no matter what change or challenges I went through in my life, I can always find groundedness and care, uh, in this person who saw me in my entirety and still told me that I deserved love, um, and still invested time and energy. 20 00:02:56,839.65523831 --> 00:02:58,459.65523831 Um, no matter how imp perfect I was. 21 00:02:58,459.65523831 --> 00:03:07,579.65523831 In fact, a few weeks back he sent me a picture of a flower and let me know that he named a flower s knew and how strong it was growing. 22 00:03:07,579.65523831 --> 00:03:11,479.65523831 And he's just been a really consistent presence in my life. 23 00:03:11,509.65523831 --> 00:03:17,839.65523831 Um, again, with all of the changes that I've navigated, um, he's just been. 24 00:03:18,289.65523831 --> 00:03:19,879.65523831 An extremely powerful force. 25 00:03:19,999.65523831 --> 00:03:48,19.65523831 Uh, so just having the relationship with him hasn't been important and the things that we've done together, camping, um, going to the beach, traveling, um, you know, I'm a city girl, so being able to have those experiences, um, it just felt really rich, um, to me as I started to get older and realized like where I was in my environment and what I was actually exposed to and what was possible for me. 26 00:03:48,499.65523831 --> 00:04:14,449.65523831 Uh, one thing that my grandfather also really, um, had me reflect on as a child, um, you know, we, we had these questions where we're asked like, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Um, but my grandfather would ask, uh, what type of life do you wanna have? Right? And once you answer that question, then you can say, okay, based on what type of life I wanna have. 27 00:04:15,259.65523831 --> 00:04:20,449.65523831 Who do I need to be? What do I need to do? Um, and then you go from there. 28 00:04:20,479.65523831 --> 00:04:29,839.65523831 'cause I know a lot of times we get trapped in what we do and it doesn't really create the life that we want. 29 00:04:30,649.65523831 --> 00:04:34,999.65523831 Um, so I think that's been really crucial. 30 00:04:35,299.65523831 --> 00:04:43,69.65523831 Um, that relationship has been really crucial for me in my development and it's kind of really helped steer, uh, my path. 31 00:04:44,59.65523831 --> 00:04:59,149.65523831 And it's kind of what, why I've been able to sustain myself as a yoga instructor because it is not easy out there for wellness providers, um, who wanna do it, who want to do it full time. 32 00:05:00,49.65523831 --> 00:05:06,679.65523831 Um, but I've been really, um, blessed to have been able to do it for so long as a single mother. 33 00:05:07,459.65523831 --> 00:05:11,389.65523831 Um, you know. 34 00:05:12,409.65523831 --> 00:05:19,369.65523831 I hold these words really close to my heart, and I always go back to it in those moments when I feel challenged or I wanna give up. 35 00:05:19,369.65523831 --> 00:05:24,769.65523831 And I remember the type of life that I want and the type of life that I want is one that feels meaningful. 36 00:05:25,339.65523831 --> 00:05:35,149.65523831 Um, one that's filled with passion, one that's filled with romance, and not just like, you know, relationships, uh, you know, love affairs, but romance. 37 00:05:35,149.65523831 --> 00:05:42,469.65523831 Like really being able to connect to that sack of energy, of exploring and feeling and sensing the world around you. 38 00:05:42,469.65523831 --> 00:05:44,809.65523831 With all of your senses, I'm able to travel. 39 00:05:45,49.65523831 --> 00:05:48,169.65523831 I'm able to taste delicious and healthy foods. 40 00:05:48,439.65523831 --> 00:05:56,929.65523831 Um, I'm able to do a lot of things because of the mindset that has, you know, my grandfather has helped me shape. 41 00:05:57,379.65523831 --> 00:05:59,719.65523831 So, I hope that answers your question. 42 00:05:59,719.65523831 --> 00:06:01,219.65523831 I know I went on and on and on. 43 00:06:01,939.65523831 --> 00:06:02,799.65523831 That was beautiful. 44 00:06:03,409.65523831 --> 00:06:03,739.65523831 Thank you. 45 00:06:04,359.65523831 --> 00:06:15,574.65523831 It feels a little bit like shifting from a what to a how, you know, like what do you want to be to a, how do you want to be, I feel like any other word, any of the other five. 46 00:06:16,264.65523831 --> 00:06:22,54.65523831 Ws is better than what, you know, even where or why or with whom How? Right. 47 00:06:22,204.65523831 --> 00:06:30,454.65523831 How, It's a lot more liberating, I feel, to navigate your life asking how rather than what. 48 00:06:30,694.65523831 --> 00:06:42,304.65523831 I mean, I think those other questions, they are also important, but I think they only contribute to that larger question, um, because that can change. 49 00:06:42,394.65523831 --> 00:06:49,324.65523831 What you wanna do can change based on like how it contributes to your how, right? but we're structured like on, on a world basis. 50 00:06:49,324.65523831 --> 00:06:58,684.65523831 We're structured to obtain what's, like, what's are much more, much more easier to get, you know, you go study something, you go buy something. 51 00:06:59,44.65523831 --> 00:07:03,394.65523831 It's like the, it feel like, it feels like the system around is not, um, enabled. 52 00:07:03,784.65523831 --> 00:07:15,784.65523831 It does not help enable us to get to those hows and those whys I think what those kind of questions, they're very short term questions, you know? totally. 53 00:07:17,29.65523831 --> 00:07:19,519.65523831 I wonder what it looks like to have an answer to that. 54 00:07:19,519.65523831 --> 00:07:23,59.65523831 How, and then like work in reverse. 55 00:07:23,624.65523831 --> 00:07:35,689.65523831 You wanna know how I wanna live? You know, we, we talk a lot about this soft girl life, but I feel like before that was a thing I was like, yeah, absolutely. 56 00:07:35,749.65523831 --> 00:07:44,689.65523831 I mean, for lack of better terminology, I definitely wanna live a life that doesn't feel like a push all of the time. 57 00:07:45,409.65523831 --> 00:07:47,569.65523831 Um, that doesn't feel depleting. 58 00:07:48,199.65523831 --> 00:07:53,569.65523831 And if I'm gonna deplete myself, I wanna deplete myself doing something that I'm passionate about because I have that fire to drive me. 59 00:07:53,659.65523831 --> 00:07:54,49.65523831 Right. 60 00:07:54,709.65523831 --> 00:07:56,179.65523831 So, um. 61 00:07:56,779.65523831 --> 00:08:08,989.65523831 I, I my how is definitely living my truth in all aspects of the way I exist in my love relationships, in my work relationships. 62 00:08:09,469.65523831 --> 00:08:31,654.65523831 Um, you know, how can I occupy myself fully, And I feel like, I mean, if I didn't get a paid, paid a salary to learn who I am and help people learn who they are, like I'm, I, I think I'm on the right path, so, I'm a big fan of, um, village lifestyles. 63 00:08:31,684.65523831 --> 00:08:36,739.65523831 I definitely like generalize and idealize what something could have looked like back then, back then Hmm. 64 00:08:37,324.65523831 --> 00:08:48,244.65523831 but where everyone sort of has their one little job and they have their livelihoods guaranteed to them and they play a role in their community and there is no hustle culture. 65 00:08:48,574.65523831 --> 00:09:02,74.65523831 There is no need to make sure that you're doing your job even better the next year so that you don't get swapped out by this other person because you're just like inherently trying your best and doing and just playing a central role. 66 00:09:02,134.65523831 --> 00:09:07,84.65523831 Like it's like a brick Should a bricks role in a building structure change year to year. 67 00:09:08,719.65523831 --> 00:09:11,149.65523831 you know what, that was a mic drop. 68 00:09:11,299.65523831 --> 00:09:14,989.65523831 And you know, my earth sign is really squealing at everything that you just said. 69 00:09:14,989.65523831 --> 00:09:31,939.65523831 Yeah, I mean, I do believe that everyone should feel secure and you know what they do and that it shouldn't help them live a long life and not worry about being replaced by AI or another person who will hustle harder than them. 70 00:09:32,179.65523831 --> 00:09:34,129.65523831 So, I totally agree. 71 00:09:34,129.65523831 --> 00:09:34,609.65523831 I get it. 72 00:09:36,29.65523831 --> 00:09:40,924.65523831 I wanna how, the theme, how. 73 00:09:42,394.65523831 --> 00:09:45,514.65523831 I want to stay in these beginnings for a little bit. 74 00:09:45,514.65523831 --> 00:09:54,934.65523831 You know, we're, we're, we're in the earlys, uh, which is, which is like the foundation of who, who we are later on, and the person that we move towards or away from. 75 00:09:55,534.65523831 --> 00:09:58,54.65523831 And I know that you pretty early on. 76 00:09:58,984.65523831 --> 00:10:02,224.65523831 Sought out some spiritual community in your life. 77 00:10:02,524.65523831 --> 00:10:13,849.65523831 What did that look like? Uh, you know, I know your grandfather was a person that filled the, the whole left in your, in your early life, but where else did you look for that, for that sustainment and for that community? Mm-hmm. 78 00:10:14,689.65523831 --> 00:10:16,189.65523831 So much like you, Dan. 79 00:10:16,519.65523831 --> 00:10:31,279.65523831 I really love the concept of a village, and when I was about 19, I went to my first ritual, um, and with a partner I was with, and I just felt really called to this community. 80 00:10:31,429.65523831 --> 00:10:38,659.65523831 Um, everyone was so happy and, you know, kind and nurturing. 81 00:10:39,199.65523831 --> 00:10:47,449.65523831 Um, and so I continued to go to classes to learn more about the philosophy, um, which is Kemetic philosophy. 82 00:10:47,929.65523831 --> 00:11:04,309.65523831 Um, and I loved what I was learning and a lot of it was rooted in truth, um, and acceptance of, you know, your life's path and the course that your life is taking. 83 00:11:05,29.65523831 --> 00:11:09,49.65523831 Um, and uh, it really resonated with me at the time. 84 00:11:10,99.65523831 --> 00:11:20,89.65523831 Another aspect of the community was, uh, learning a lot about the Dao de Jing, um, or the 64 Hexagrams, which is the book of changes. 85 00:11:20,89.65523831 --> 00:11:24,319.65523831 I don't know if you're familiar, but if you're not, I'll send you a link. 86 00:11:24,889.65523831 --> 00:11:36,439.65523831 Um, and, uh, I still use that, um, divination system, uh, because it really kind of speaks to nature. 87 00:11:36,724.65523831 --> 00:11:39,424.65523831 It starts at one, it goes all the way to 64. 88 00:11:39,964.65523831 --> 00:11:45,634.65523831 Um, and it speaks to, uh, a lot of natural occurrences in life. 89 00:11:45,874.65523831 --> 00:11:58,774.65523831 And it reflects it with like, uh, I guess I, I would, I, I would imagine it's like biomorphic, like how it relates life's experience to how, you know, nature, uh, kind of moves. 90 00:11:58,984.65523831 --> 00:12:06,304.65523831 And, uh, I, I, I really think that everything within each hexagram, uh, really resonates. 91 00:12:06,394.65523831 --> 00:12:19,774.65523831 One of them that, uh, stands out to me is Hexagram 51, which is called Arousing Shock Thunder, which is my incarnation objective. 92 00:12:19,774.65523831 --> 00:12:20,374.65523831 Geez. 93 00:12:20,554.65523831 --> 00:12:30,424.65523831 It's just so aggressive, right? So I, I, I would say I'm definitely in the right career because I need to be not getting shocked. 94 00:12:30,574.65523831 --> 00:12:36,274.65523831 Um, so arousing Shock Thunder speaks to those fault. 95 00:12:37,234.65523831 --> 00:13:03,874.65523831 Of, um, those bolting experiences in your life, right? But think about how these experiences that shake us call us to go to a higher power, right? We pray, we do our spiritual work, so the objective is to like stay in that energy space rather than having to be jolted so many times. 96 00:13:04,714.65523831 --> 00:13:21,969.65523831 But, you know, sometimes it takes a little while for us to, you know, get there, Yeah, I don't know if I'm understanding the concept correctly and you'll have to correct me here, here, here I am just learning about Hexagram 51 and already chat, chatting about it. 97 00:13:21,969.65523831 --> 00:13:22,719.65523831 But mm-hmm. 98 00:13:22,779.65523831 --> 00:13:27,969.65523831 wonder if it's related to the idea that energy is available around us. 99 00:13:28,29.65523831 --> 00:13:29,229.65523831 And we are. 100 00:13:29,229.65523831 --> 00:13:47,689.65523831 We are often, like I could, like if I push my cup, it could be pushed enough to fall, but if like my cup wants to fall and I push it, it could use my push to fall, right? Or, or continue to pray, continue to work on your spiritual practice rather than waiting for those s jolts. 101 00:13:50,899.65523831 --> 00:14:01,729.65523831 Such 'cause a lot of us, like I said, yeah, a lot of us are, are, like I said, we're called to prayer and to God and seeing whatever our higher power is when we're experiencing these traumatic experiences. 102 00:14:01,999.65523831 --> 00:14:06,139.65523831 So I think that's what 51 is kind of saying to me. 103 00:14:06,199.65523831 --> 00:14:11,269.65523831 It's like, stay in that, don't wait for those jolts. 104 00:14:12,379.65523831 --> 00:14:12,619.65523831 Okay. 105 00:14:12,619.65523831 --> 00:14:13,219.65523831 I love that. 106 00:14:14,569.65523831 --> 00:14:27,319.65523831 With the assumption that the jolts, that the jolts will come, or is it like with faith that jolts will come in time, or is it renouncing entirely So the jolts are gonna come, jolts are gonna come regardless. 107 00:14:27,874.65523831 --> 00:14:28,384.65523831 Right. 108 00:14:28,444.65523831 --> 00:14:33,184.65523831 But if you stay in your spiritual practice, then they won't be as intense for you. 109 00:14:33,994.65523831 --> 00:14:34,444.65523831 Right. 110 00:14:34,804.65523831 --> 00:14:38,344.65523831 Or maybe you don't wait for the jolts in order to go to your spiritual practice. 111 00:14:38,374.65523831 --> 00:14:44,854.65523831 Sometimes we kind of fall off, right? And then when those jolts happen, we're like, oh gosh, we're in panic mode. 112 00:14:44,854.65523831 --> 00:14:46,534.65523831 We're going back to prayer. 113 00:14:46,654.65523831 --> 00:15:03,424.65523831 Instead of just staying in prayer or staying with our meditation or whatever your practice is, our breath work, our yoga practice, right? Just like how we wait till we're extremely unhealthy to sign up for the gym or to sign up for our Pilates. 114 00:15:03,424.65523831 --> 00:15:07,474.65523831 That's like the new thing now, right? Pilates, I am terrified of Pilates. 115 00:15:07,504.65523831 --> 00:15:08,974.65523831 I will say that out loud. 116 00:15:08,974.65523831 --> 00:15:11,944.65523831 I do not mind being perceived in that way. 117 00:15:12,364.65523831 --> 00:15:13,744.65523831 I am scared of Pilates. 118 00:15:14,194.65523831 --> 00:15:17,44.65523831 But it's a great, it's a beautiful thing. 119 00:15:17,44.65523831 --> 00:15:23,74.65523831 It's a great, it's a very rich practice, um, that works those tiny muscles in your body. 120 00:15:23,194.65523831 --> 00:15:25,44.65523831 Um, I think it's great, Mm-hmm. 121 00:15:25,324.65523831 --> 00:15:25,744.65523831 but. 122 00:15:26,534.65523831 --> 00:15:28,549.65523831 The girlies are on another level. 123 00:15:28,714.65523831 --> 00:15:29,194.65523831 I know. 124 00:15:29,194.65523831 --> 00:15:37,144.65523831 No, it's, I, I, I marvel at the things that sort of pick up steam every now and then, uh, and then, you know, fade away maybe, or maybe not. 125 00:15:37,174.65523831 --> 00:15:43,534.65523831 Who knows? Don't want to spell Pilates fortune right now, but who knows if it'll stay that way over the next couple years. 126 00:15:44,44.65523831 --> 00:15:53,14.65523831 I kept thinking about this step at 19 where you decided to, to, to touch base or to join this Kemetic community. 127 00:15:53,554.65523831 --> 00:16:05,404.65523831 How did you choose it? Or did it, you know, how did you go towards that? I think that when we're feeling that sense of needing some sort of community, it's like there is a plethora of them out there. 128 00:16:05,914.65523831 --> 00:16:24,289.65523831 How did you sort of know that you wanted to start with this one? Well, my partner at the time, his mother was a priestess in the community, so I would go to the events with him and his mom and his family, and it just really resonated with me. 129 00:16:25,114.65523831 --> 00:16:29,254.65523831 I really loved how communal they were and how accountable they were for one another. 130 00:16:29,944.65523831 --> 00:16:33,364.65523831 Um, and you know, all of my family is in Louisiana. 131 00:16:34,234.65523831 --> 00:16:38,44.65523831 Um, I do have some relatives here in Maryland as well. 132 00:16:38,704.65523831 --> 00:16:46,114.6552383 Um, but it just felt very, um, I felt very held in that community. 133 00:16:46,144.6552383 --> 00:16:57,214.6552383 I felt I also loved that they held me accountable, right? Like, Sue, are you doing your meditations? And, you know, they're checking in on me and my family. 134 00:16:57,394.6552383 --> 00:17:03,214.6552383 Um, which just was, it just worked well for what I needed at this time. 135 00:17:04,84.6552383 --> 00:17:04,414.6552383 Yeah. 136 00:17:05,434.6552383 --> 00:17:08,284.6552383 When you went to college, you decided to study at. 137 00:17:08,584.6552383 --> 00:17:10,174.6552383 Psychology, Mm-hmm. 138 00:17:10,504.6552383 --> 00:17:20,764.6552383 where did that interest come from Uh, I really love exploring, um, why people do the things they do. 139 00:17:22,234.6552383 --> 00:17:22,714.6552383 Uh. 140 00:17:23,239.6552383 --> 00:17:27,79.6552383 Really, it's, it's really not very poetic. 141 00:17:27,379.6552383 --> 00:17:37,489.6552383 I just really love the human mind, um, and how it works, um, and how people relate and why they relate, um, cause and effect. 142 00:17:37,589.6552383 --> 00:17:58,64.6552383 And when was it around that time that you first started having your, um, I was gonna say like, approachment, when did you first start approaching yoga or did yoga approach you? You know, I'm realizing that, I'm realizing that all of these things kind of revolved around a guy at the time. 143 00:17:58,214.6552383 --> 00:18:01,64.6552383 So this other, this other guy, no. 144 00:18:01,304.6552383 --> 00:18:02,324.6552383 Um, no. 145 00:18:02,324.6552383 --> 00:18:13,784.6552383 But really my first yoga class I had with, um, car Moko, who is an Asurion yoga instructor, um, it was with a gentleman. 146 00:18:13,789.6552383 --> 00:18:14,79.6552383 Okay. 147 00:18:14,804.6552383 --> 00:18:35,744.6552383 Who, um, actually was a part of the comedic community and he would, we would do private yoga sessions with him and, uh, I really loved the practice, so I got an internship at a Cru yoga studio and it had carpet. 148 00:18:36,344.6552383 --> 00:18:40,544.6552383 So I hope that is kind of like you, you're getting the image here. 149 00:18:40,544.6552383 --> 00:18:42,164.6552383 It was very sweaty carpets. 150 00:18:42,884.6552383 --> 00:18:45,974.6552383 Um, and, uh, so I did my internship there. 151 00:18:46,634.6552383 --> 00:18:53,54.6552383 Um, and then I did my yoga teacher training in 2010, 2011, between that time. 152 00:18:53,564.6552383 --> 00:19:00,284.6552383 Um, and then I passed my, uh, I got my certification. 153 00:19:01,874.6552383 --> 00:19:04,604.6552383 I struggled to get on that sub list. 154 00:19:05,84.6552383 --> 00:19:12,674.6552383 I would always wanna cover a class, and I was not selected until one day I got selected and I. 155 00:19:13,679.6552383 --> 00:19:14,729.6552383 The class. 156 00:19:15,299.6552383 --> 00:19:17,519.6552383 And, uh, I didn't have a front desk person. 157 00:19:19,409.6552383 --> 00:19:21,449.6552383 I didn't know what the alarm code was. 158 00:19:23,39.6552383 --> 00:19:39,749.6552383 And the, uh, studio owner came back to me and said, there, I guess there were some kind of undercover person that came to my class and said, I seemed a little frazzled, so they're not going to allow me to sub, and then I should get some community classes. 159 00:19:39,839.6552383 --> 00:19:40,529.6552383 And that's what I did. 160 00:19:40,529.6552383 --> 00:20:00,479.6552383 And that's how Yoga CNU was born because I was teaching classes anywhere in the park, you know, um, What did they mean by community classes? Don't teach here Exactly that. 161 00:20:02,129.6552383 --> 00:20:10,649.6552383 They tried to say it the yogic way, but yeah, I, I felt very, um, discarded. 162 00:20:11,489.6552383 --> 00:20:15,539.6552383 During the first part of my yoga journey. 163 00:20:16,169.6552383 --> 00:20:18,289.6552383 Um, and that is you were frazzled. 164 00:20:18,289.6552383 --> 00:20:19,804.6552383 It was your first class, I mean. 165 00:20:20,39.6552383 --> 00:20:22,229.6552383 well, not, no, not even just that. 166 00:20:22,349.6552383 --> 00:20:28,259.6552383 It was the fact that I didn't have a front desk person to sign anyone in, and they didn't tell me that there was an alarm code. 167 00:20:28,319.6552383 --> 00:20:36,239.6552383 So the alarm is going off and I don't know where the lights are. 168 00:20:36,239.6552383 --> 00:20:39,899.6552383 I don't have a front desk person, so I wasn't really supported. 169 00:20:40,769.6552383 --> 00:20:47,24.6552383 And then it kind of felt a little bit like a setup, It's real. 170 00:20:47,69.6552383 --> 00:20:47,639.6552383 honestly. 171 00:20:47,789.6552383 --> 00:20:49,769.6552383 And I will say that publicly. 172 00:20:50,819.6552383 --> 00:20:52,919.6552383 So you don't have to edit that out. 173 00:20:53,114.6552383 --> 00:20:57,89.6552383 You can keep that, but yeah. 174 00:20:57,239.6552383 --> 00:21:05,834.6552383 Um, it about that first class, you know, when the fir, the one that you went to with the gentleman, what was it about that first class that sort of got you and you were like, uh huh. 175 00:21:05,864.6552383 --> 00:21:06,194.6552383 Hmm. 176 00:21:06,224.6552383 --> 00:21:06,854.6552383 This is interesting. 177 00:21:07,679.6552383 --> 00:21:08,69.6552383 uh. 178 00:21:08,624.6552383 --> 00:21:12,554.6552383 I think the first time I really liked the way my body felt in yoga. 179 00:21:12,554.6552383 --> 00:21:16,64.6552383 I liked, um, opening my body. 180 00:21:16,364.6552383 --> 00:21:23,384.6552383 Um, I also liked the fact that there was like a philosophical component to this physical practice. 181 00:21:23,444.6552383 --> 00:21:26,384.6552383 It wasn't quite like the gym or gymnastics. 182 00:21:26,564.6552383 --> 00:21:44,744.6552383 It was like, ah, I get to challenge my through my mind, right? And I get to incorporate these tools, like my breath in order to move beyond any limitations of my mind. 183 00:21:45,584.6552383 --> 00:22:01,544.6552383 So it kind of started to feel like, you know, this challenge that I was taking on and it was a direct mirror to my life, you know, like being able to push through. 184 00:22:02,774.6552383 --> 00:22:12,134.6552383 In a real way, not like, oh, I'm just breezing through this challenge, but now my mind is kind of transformed through this challenge. 185 00:22:13,574.6552383 --> 00:22:16,544.6552383 And look at me, I look beautiful. 186 00:22:17,888.6926214 --> 00:22:34,418.6926214 That word challenge is I think, one that I don't know if, like we were playing Family Feud, like what words do you associate with yoga? It feels like challenge would not be up there, just because I think there's a, this misconception that yoga is like a thing that comes easy and like you should just get in there and like just do it. 187 00:22:34,778.6926214 --> 00:22:38,918.6926214 I, I, I think it's important to restore the fact that it can be challenging. 188 00:22:38,918.6926214 --> 00:22:39,368.6926214 It should be. 189 00:22:39,368.6926214 --> 00:22:39,968.6926214 It is. 190 00:22:40,233.6926214 --> 00:22:50,888.6926214 it is challenging and I think, you know, I used to really have this beef with the idea that, you know, people would look at me like, oh, you're a yoga instructor. 191 00:22:50,888.6926214 --> 00:22:52,58.6926214 You should know peace. 192 00:22:52,298.6926214 --> 00:22:58,898.6926214 But really it's that I'm a yoga instructor and I should know myself and I should be at peace. 193 00:22:59,648.6926214 --> 00:23:00,848.6926214 All that I am. 194 00:23:01,328.6926214 --> 00:23:02,798.6926214 And that is a challenge. 195 00:23:03,848.6926214 --> 00:23:07,478.6926214 And real peace is not the absence of challenge. 196 00:23:07,778.6926214 --> 00:23:15,788.6926214 Real peace is being at peace with all aspects, whether it is enjoyable or not. 197 00:23:16,508.6926214 --> 00:23:30,398.6926214 Um, so yeah, didn't exist and you were asked to, you know, say I give classes in, or I teach this, like, how would you describe, you just define yoga without saying yoga. 198 00:23:31,718.6926214 --> 00:23:42,998.6926214 remembrance, remembrance, putting yourself back together, remembering who you are. 199 00:23:43,88.6926214 --> 00:23:50,918.6926214 I think remembrance is a really great word that I would use to describe yoga. 200 00:23:51,788.6926214 --> 00:24:02,168.6926214 Um, because when we're born, you know, we think about, you know, our primal selves, right? We're young, we're very primal. 201 00:24:02,168.6926214 --> 00:24:03,578.6926214 Everybody's talking about terrible twos. 202 00:24:04,448.6926214 --> 00:24:06,668.6926214 But the reality is we are in a primitive state. 203 00:24:06,728.6926214 --> 00:24:09,8.6926214 We are not afraid to express ourselves. 204 00:24:09,398.6926214 --> 00:24:18,548.6926214 And we have these familial conditionings, we have these societal conditionings, and we start to move away from our primitive state. 205 00:24:19,628.6926214 --> 00:24:28,748.6926214 And sure, we become more refined in a lot of ways, but we also become more trapped in certain ways. 206 00:24:29,618.6926214 --> 00:24:43,388.6926214 So I think being able to combine that refinement with also like reconnecting with our true state, um, is what remembrance can do. 207 00:24:44,318.6926214 --> 00:24:48,853.6926214 So it's remembering a body that was freer, more playful. 208 00:24:50,498.6926214 --> 00:24:51,158.6926214 Exactly. 209 00:24:51,638.6926214 --> 00:24:51,848.6926214 Yeah. 210 00:24:53,288.6926214 --> 00:24:53,378.6926214 Mm-hmm. 211 00:24:53,948.6926214 --> 00:24:56,828.6926214 I'm still trying to practice remembrance. 212 00:24:57,683.6926214 --> 00:25:10,703.6926214 You know, I feel like, uh, one of the things that I shared with you is my challenge with being perceived, you know? So A it's an have that. 213 00:25:11,93.6926214 --> 00:25:12,323.6926214 A child doesn't have that. 214 00:25:12,533.6926214 --> 00:25:14,723.6926214 A child just does, does their thing. 215 00:25:15,563.6926214 --> 00:25:17,753.6926214 yeah, yeah. 216 00:25:18,503.6926214 --> 00:25:21,83.6926214 But it's, it's also, it goes, it occurs on the mat. 217 00:25:21,293.6926214 --> 00:25:25,433.6926214 I think it's a great place to practice that, but I often just feel that way on the streets. 218 00:25:25,763.6926214 --> 00:25:33,443.6926214 I like will be listening to a song and just like really wanting to, when the, when, you know, when the base drops, I really wanna just jump up and down on the sidewalk. 219 00:25:33,893.6926214 --> 00:25:38,963.6926214 And Do you do that? I don't, I do smaller things. 220 00:25:39,623.6926214 --> 00:25:40,493.6926214 I do smaller things. 221 00:25:40,518.6926214 --> 00:25:40,808.6926214 jobs. 222 00:25:41,453.6926214 --> 00:25:45,173.6926214 Yes, I do smaller steps or like, I'll, I always dance with my hands. 223 00:25:45,173.6926214 --> 00:25:47,33.6926214 My hands are very mobile when I'm walking. 224 00:25:47,333.6926214 --> 00:25:53,3.6926214 Um, but they, it feels like a mini step, you know, it feels like a mini expression, but the, but my hands are free. 225 00:25:53,213.6926214 --> 00:25:55,253.6926214 Like my hands are, have been emancipated. 226 00:25:55,613.6926214 --> 00:26:03,173.6926214 Um, but the rest of my body is still pretty much like, wary of how I don't know anyone around me. 227 00:26:03,323.6926214 --> 00:26:04,553.6926214 There's no reason why I couldn't. 228 00:26:04,553.6926214 --> 00:26:11,723.6926214 Just, that song is really inviting me to jump, you know, or to run the rest of the side of that block, even though I'm wearing street clothes. 229 00:26:11,723.6926214 --> 00:26:13,613.6926214 Like it, the possibility is there. 230 00:26:13,823.6926214 --> 00:26:16,193.6926214 I, as a child, I would, I would've done it as a child. 231 00:26:16,193.6926214 --> 00:26:17,573.6926214 I would do it as a child. 232 00:26:17,723.6926214 --> 00:26:21,383.6926214 I would like me to do it now, but it's, it's tough. 233 00:26:21,383.6926214 --> 00:26:23,633.6926214 Like I think the mat is a great place to practice that. 234 00:26:23,963.6926214 --> 00:26:37,373.6926214 Um, but it's like, I guess it's like a, is it playful? Do you like find playful being part of practice? Yeah, I think it can be a part of practice when you have the freedom to teach in that way. 235 00:26:38,33.6926214 --> 00:26:52,134.6926214 Um, I, one thing that you made me think of, well, first of all, for you for expressing your hands because I rely very heavily on T-Rex arms and my hands are always like this. 236 00:26:52,808.6926214 --> 00:26:54,278.6926214 I never know what to do with my hands. 237 00:26:54,278.6926214 --> 00:27:01,598.6926214 I, I've even shared with my friends, like when I dance, I, I don't know, like I could have a drink in my hand, but I don't really drink alcohol. 238 00:27:01,988.6926214 --> 00:27:05,168.6926214 So I'm like, I have a cup of water, two cups of water. 239 00:27:05,468.6926214 --> 00:27:06,528.6926214 You know, I don't Right. 240 00:27:07,628.6926214 --> 00:27:20,768.6926214 But one of the things that I have been leaning on in, um, my teaching lately, uh, for yoga is I'm going back to the hexagrams Hexagram 15, um, which is humility. 241 00:27:21,98.6926214 --> 00:27:25,538.6926214 And it doesn't really speak to the humility of being unseen or unheard. 242 00:27:25,868.6926214 --> 00:27:33,398.6926214 Um, but the total opposite right, is releasing your ego in order to listen very closely to your body's wisdom and what it means. 243 00:27:33,668.6926214 --> 00:27:44,228.6926214 So what that may look like on your mat is releasing the urge to compare yourself to someone else or even to yourself where you've been, where you like to be. 244 00:27:44,618.6926214 --> 00:27:49,988.6926214 Um, and just really coming back to like where you are and listening to those messages. 245 00:27:50,393.6926214 --> 00:27:52,103.6926214 Um, that your body is speaking to you. 246 00:27:52,103.6926214 --> 00:27:53,723.6926214 Maybe your body is saying push harder. 247 00:27:53,783.6926214 --> 00:28:02,783.6926214 Maybe your body is saying modify, maybe your body is saying rest, you know, and maybe your body is saying, jump up and down on the sidewalk and sling those hands. 248 00:28:03,23.6926214 --> 00:28:09,263.6926214 You know, you just never really know unless you're there in the present moment. 249 00:28:09,413.6926214 --> 00:28:09,833.6926214 Right. 250 00:28:10,733.6926214 --> 00:28:12,773.6926214 So it's just not something to be anticipated. 251 00:28:12,773.6926214 --> 00:28:18,863.6926214 And I think what happens with me is that I anticipate a certain judgment from people, right. 252 00:28:19,133.6926214 --> 00:28:25,13.6926214 Instead of just being where I am and not really worrying about what happens next. 253 00:28:25,223.6926214 --> 00:28:45,143.6926214 I mean, with the exception of like illegal activities, obviously in a responsible and that's where the refinement comes in, right? Um, so yeah, I think that's how we can invite more plays, just releasing our, um, that mental, those mental chains we have in our practice. 254 00:28:45,263.6926214 --> 00:28:46,643.6926214 So, Yeah, yeah. 255 00:28:46,643.6926214 --> 00:28:47,663.6926214 I hope I answered that. 256 00:28:48,23.6926214 --> 00:28:59,153.6926214 I hear you saying that the body wants to be playful, sort of lean into that Intuit, that feel, that feel that inc that inclination and it another force that I imagine you. 257 00:29:00,113.6926214 --> 00:29:02,183.6926214 Spring in is, I imagine. 258 00:29:02,183.6926214 --> 00:29:06,233.6926214 But I'd like to ask you, if you do, is dance, I know you come from the world of dance. 259 00:29:06,503.6926214 --> 00:29:10,883.6926214 Uh, do you still feel like a dancer? Well, okay. 260 00:29:11,393.6926214 --> 00:29:14,303.6926214 I'm not, I wasn't like Alvin Ailey dancer. 261 00:29:14,393.6926214 --> 00:29:16,133.6926214 I did dance. 262 00:29:16,253.6926214 --> 00:29:19,43.6926214 I was in ballet classes until I was in about high school. 263 00:29:19,43.6926214 --> 00:29:23,513.6926214 And then after that I would just like dance like on my own. 264 00:29:24,113.6926214 --> 00:29:29,393.6926214 Um, I do have like a, usually have like dancier flows. 265 00:29:29,933.6926214 --> 00:29:35,93.6926214 Um, I'm really big on transitions and I think that is inspired by dance. 266 00:29:35,663.6926214 --> 00:29:43,463.6926214 Uh, so I would say that my sequences a is a lot more like flowy and less rigid. 267 00:29:43,973.6926214 --> 00:29:44,423.6926214 Uh. 268 00:29:46,148.6926214 --> 00:29:57,263.6926214 But yeah, I guess I would say I, I incorporate a little bit of the dance philosophy into my practice, I was gonna ask you what your yoga practice is like. 269 00:29:58,223.6926214 --> 00:30:08,543.6926214 Right now I don't think there's any real, like, I, I'm always challenging myself that that's one thing that I like to do. 270 00:30:08,603.6926214 --> 00:30:12,173.6926214 I like to like push myself beyond limits. 271 00:30:12,803.6926214 --> 00:30:21,23.6926214 Um, so right now I have been working with a lot of arm balances. 272 00:30:22,133.6926214 --> 00:30:31,403.6926214 I've been working with toe stands and, um, which is an arm balance. 273 00:30:31,823.6926214 --> 00:30:47,33.6926214 So I guess I would say, like, I've been doing a lot of like sequencing that can kind of contribute to two different challenging postures, if that makes sense. 274 00:30:47,393.6926214 --> 00:30:50,273.6926214 So it's like, I'm, I'm struggling with my words here. 275 00:30:51,323.6926214 --> 00:31:07,538.6926214 Um, have you ever seen toe stand where you do like the figure four, where you cross your ankle over your left knee and you're bouncing on one foot? So that is one of the peak postures, and the other one is still a figure four, but this time you have your back leg extended. 276 00:31:07,538.6926214 --> 00:31:12,758.6926214 So kind of like a sequence that's like a, a two for one. 277 00:31:12,968.6926214 --> 00:31:22,88.6926214 I've been enjoying a lot of two for one sequences where I can do more than one peak posture, but I'm using the same kind of techniques and movements in order to prepare my body for it. 278 00:31:22,118.6926214 --> 00:31:22,568.6926214 Right. 279 00:31:23,108.6926214 --> 00:31:25,58.6926214 Um, so I've been really enjoying that. 280 00:31:25,808.6926214 --> 00:31:34,478.6926214 Um, I've also been doing a lot more slow flows, um, over the past two years. 281 00:31:34,478.6926214 --> 00:31:41,438.6926214 That's something I've been inviting more, um, because I've always been like a vinyasa type of person. 282 00:31:41,798.6926214 --> 00:31:42,848.6926214 I love vinyasa. 283 00:31:42,848.6926214 --> 00:31:44,618.6926214 I love the flow of it. 284 00:31:45,458.6926214 --> 00:31:52,568.6926214 But one thing that I really think has helped me a lot in my personal life is doing a slow flow class. 285 00:31:52,688.6926214 --> 00:31:56,798.6926214 And one of the things that I kind of speak to is a journey of the seed. 286 00:31:57,443.6926214 --> 00:32:21,953.6926214 Um, and I talk about the heavy impact of the soil, right? Feeling that groundedness underneath the soil and really taking a moment to connect to your roots and the things that feed the soil and the challenges you may have in breaking through that compacted soil, but the importance of doing so in order to reach the light right, in order to expand. 287 00:32:22,343.6926214 --> 00:32:35,3.6926214 So I think that has kind of allowed me to not rush towards things, right? And reconnect to that, how that we spoke about a little bit earlier. 288 00:32:35,513.6926214 --> 00:32:44,993.6926214 Uh, because, you know, even with a yoga practice, I can find myself wandering a lot and searching a lot and desiring a lot. 289 00:32:45,593.6926214 --> 00:32:55,553.6926214 Um, so I think what the slow flow has kind of helped me with is like being grounded right where I am and offering myself to what I have right in front of me. 290 00:32:57,338.6926214 --> 00:32:58,968.6926214 So You're. 291 00:32:59,453.6926214 --> 00:33:05,273.6926214 Me with these images that are coming up, the rooting the soil. 292 00:33:06,623.6926214 --> 00:33:10,493.6926214 I feel like you speak with a lot of images and a lot of visuals. 293 00:33:10,493.6926214 --> 00:33:13,373.6926214 I remember that from the class of yours I attended as well. 294 00:33:13,703.6926214 --> 00:33:16,973.6926214 Um, it it, it's in line with your writing. 295 00:33:16,973.6926214 --> 00:33:26,273.6926214 You also write really beautifully and bring in images from the outside world to, to ground and to connect the practice to the, to the natural world. 296 00:33:27,173.6926214 --> 00:33:35,183.6926214 Where to what do you trace your sort of comfort with words and with bringing visuals and images into, into practice. 297 00:33:36,578.6926214 --> 00:33:38,828.6926214 When I was growing up, I was very quiet. 298 00:33:40,148.6926214 --> 00:33:55,448.6926214 I didn't speak a lot because I was scared to speak, but my grandfather would take me to Rock Creek Park, he would take me to Chin T Island, and I would just spend a lot of time observing nature and I had a lot of words inside of me. 299 00:33:56,408.6926214 --> 00:33:59,588.6926214 I had a lot of thoughts, but I would not speak. 300 00:34:00,158.6926214 --> 00:34:13,718.6926214 And when I became a teenager, my grandparents started to buy me journals and they would buy me really interesting journals, like leather bound journals with like, um, for African print journals every year. 301 00:34:13,718.6926214 --> 00:34:16,448.6926214 It was just like a different type of journal for my birthday. 302 00:34:16,448.6926214 --> 00:34:22,208.6926214 And I guess maybe now that I'm thinking about it, maybe they're like, this girl she needs to like express herself or something. 303 00:34:22,208.6926214 --> 00:34:27,428.6926214 Right? And I would write, I would do a lot of writing. 304 00:34:27,908.6926214 --> 00:34:36,608.6926214 Um, and a lot of my writing, um, was around the things that I would see in nature and the things that I would feel in nature. 305 00:34:36,728.6926214 --> 00:34:41,168.6926214 And, uh, I just felt really expansive when I was in nature. 306 00:34:41,978.6926214 --> 00:34:43,688.6926214 There wasn't a lot of distraction. 307 00:34:44,258.6926214 --> 00:34:53,738.6926214 Um, you know, one of the quotes I actually posted this week was, um, nature always resumes itself amongst the ruins. 308 00:34:54,773.6926214 --> 00:34:55,223.6926214 Right. 309 00:34:55,403.6926214 --> 00:34:58,673.6926214 So nature doesn't favor good or bad, it just is. 310 00:34:58,673.6926214 --> 00:35:00,923.6926214 It just comes back to what's natural. 311 00:35:01,523.6926214 --> 00:35:05,333.6926214 Um, and this kind of brings me back to the concept of truth. 312 00:35:06,173.6926214 --> 00:35:19,943.6926214 And I think with some of the things that I've moved through in my life, it's very important for me to be connected to being okay and understanding the importance of life and how it progresses. 313 00:35:20,363.6926214 --> 00:35:21,803.6926214 Progresses, excuse me. 314 00:35:21,863.6926214 --> 00:35:33,563.6926214 And uh, you know, moving with the seasons, things die away in winter to make room for me life this spring, and I'm the reflection of that. 315 00:35:34,73.6926214 --> 00:35:39,863.6926214 So that's how, you know, I'm able to move forward myself with those things in mind. 316 00:35:40,508.6926214 --> 00:35:43,958.6926214 It sounds like you've had a crash course in observing like that you would. 317 00:35:45,173.6926214 --> 00:35:47,693.6926214 That you were taught or like given space to just observe. 318 00:35:47,993.6926214 --> 00:35:50,153.6926214 Which is a, which is a, which is a teacher of its own. 319 00:35:50,153.6926214 --> 00:35:55,943.6926214 I feel like so many processes around us, the minute we start attending to them, have something to teach us. 320 00:35:58,13.6926214 --> 00:36:06,938.6926214 Were you ever able to share those with people when you were a kid? Those writings Not really. 321 00:36:08,108.6926214 --> 00:36:08,768.6926214 Not really. 322 00:36:10,28.6926214 --> 00:36:11,678.6926214 I think I just kept them to myself. 323 00:36:13,378.6926214 --> 00:36:20,38.6926214 When I was a teenager, I had a really close friend that also wrote, but I never really shared like my deep reflections. 324 00:36:20,38.6926214 --> 00:36:28,768.6926214 It was just also always like poems or little things that rhymed, you know? So it wasn't anything too intense. 325 00:36:29,383.6926214 --> 00:36:33,748.6926214 and when did, when did you start sharing? Mm. 326 00:36:34,588.6926214 --> 00:36:41,248.6926214 Well, when I was in high school, I did another poem, but again, it wasn't super deep reflection. 327 00:36:42,58.6926214 --> 00:36:42,598.6926214 Um. 328 00:36:43,288.6926214 --> 00:36:53,698.6926214 I would say I started sharing my writing when I got deeper into my yoga practice, um, just on social media, on my website, where I would share some of my musings. 329 00:36:54,148.6926214 --> 00:36:58,978.6926214 Um, mostly because I felt like they could help other people to self navigate. 330 00:36:59,878.6926214 --> 00:37:03,328.6926214 Um, so yeah, that's where I started sharing. 331 00:37:04,933.6926214 --> 00:37:15,163.6926214 You've taught in so many different spaces and places and to, I was gonna say types of people, people are all the same, but to people who wear different hats. 332 00:37:15,553.6926214 --> 00:37:19,903.6926214 You've taught in, in business settings, you've taught, um, in recreational settings. 333 00:37:19,903.6926214 --> 00:37:24,93.6926214 You've taught on the National Mall, um, once or twice Mm-hmm. 334 00:37:24,613.6926214 --> 00:37:38,278.6926214 Do you feel like, uh, the classes change based off the place that you're in? Or are they more or less the same? Um, I think they change, I think the needs on a. 335 00:37:39,163.6926214 --> 00:37:41,473.6926214 Larger scale tends to be different. 336 00:37:41,473.6926214 --> 00:37:48,253.6926214 I know that like collectively, people that come to yoga studios tends to be looking for more of a like workout. 337 00:37:49,63.6926214 --> 00:37:53,803.6926214 Um, you do have your handful of people that are really looking for something deeper. 338 00:37:54,73.6926214 --> 00:37:57,283.6926214 I mean, and, and I would say people are looking for something deeper. 339 00:37:57,973.6926214 --> 00:38:19,543.6926214 Um, in a lot of my community classes, I know that there is usually like a focus, right? Um, so I tend to use, 'cause I have um, uh, yoga therapy certification. 340 00:38:19,693.6926214 --> 00:38:24,943.6926214 My 500 hour is in yoga therapy, so I tend to pull from that a little bit more. 341 00:38:24,943.6926214 --> 00:38:36,373.6926214 I don't generally teach Vinyasa in my community classes because I like it to be a little more, um, uh, holistic. 342 00:38:38,38.6926214 --> 00:38:41,818.6926214 I like for there to be some talking involved. 343 00:38:42,268.6926214 --> 00:38:45,478.6926214 I like for people to do some self-inquiry. 344 00:38:46,48.6926214 --> 00:38:49,528.6926214 Um, I like for people to be able to ask me questions as well. 345 00:38:49,888.6926214 --> 00:39:01,18.6926214 Um, I would say a little more like functional, right? Things that they could carry with them in a very clear way, um, in my community, uh, classes. 346 00:39:01,318.6926214 --> 00:39:07,963.6926214 So When you say community classes, now they, it means something different, right? Than what it used to mean, like not here. 347 00:39:09,88.6926214 --> 00:39:12,538.6926214 yeah, it means here you're here for a reason. 348 00:39:12,538.6926214 --> 00:39:13,738.6926214 We're inviting you here. 349 00:39:14,38.6926214 --> 00:39:15,748.6926214 Yeah, things changed. 350 00:39:16,528.6926214 --> 00:39:26,638.6926214 But in the studio, you know, I might just be like, okay, we're doing forearm stand today and people are happy right in the community. 351 00:39:26,638.6926214 --> 00:39:29,728.6926214 I'm like, okay, we're learning how to self regulate. 352 00:39:30,28.6926214 --> 00:39:31,588.6926214 We're learning how to self notice. 353 00:39:32,113.6926214 --> 00:39:40,513.6926214 We're learning what no feels like in our body before we say it, right? We're learning how to relate to our neighbor. 354 00:39:41,293.6926214 --> 00:39:45,673.6926214 So just things like that, things that people can use. 355 00:39:46,453.6926214 --> 00:39:53,83.6926214 Um, I tend to kind of lean on when I teach community classes, The word functional feels like it fits there. 356 00:39:53,113.6926214 --> 00:39:53,503.6926214 Yeah. 357 00:39:53,953.6926214 --> 00:40:12,553.6926214 What is, what is yoga therapy? What does that field do with yoga? Like why is that a subfield of yoga? um, because it focuses on the whole person, right? And it's not just like a quick one hour class. 358 00:40:12,883.6926214 --> 00:40:18,763.6926214 You might speak to me and say, Hey, nu, this is what I am dealing with in my life. 359 00:40:18,853.6926214 --> 00:40:23,923.6926214 And I might give you like some breath work to do for these amount of days. 360 00:40:24,223.6926214 --> 00:40:30,373.6926214 I might say, do these particular poses? Um, I might say rest. 361 00:40:31,228.6926214 --> 00:40:33,478.6926214 I might say take a walk in the park. 362 00:40:34,288.6926214 --> 00:40:36,88.6926214 I might say, drink more water. 363 00:40:36,178.6926214 --> 00:40:40,198.6926214 I might say, do these affirmations, um, or connect to this chocolate. 364 00:40:40,678.6926214 --> 00:40:44,998.6926214 Um, so I think it's a little more prescribed Hmm. 365 00:40:45,238.6926214 --> 00:40:54,898.6926214 than just like a one hour yoga class, Feels like more of a conversation with a like a customized mm-hmm. 366 00:40:55,413.6926214 --> 00:40:58,828.6926214 And it's a, it's a more customized experience. 367 00:41:00,163.6926214 --> 00:41:10,933.6926214 I went to a massage about a year or two ago and was so thrown off when I got there, and the Mr wanted to talk to me first. 368 00:41:11,623.6926214 --> 00:41:16,813.6926214 He wanted to just sit down, you know, two chairs and talk about what I needed. 369 00:41:17,593.6926214 --> 00:41:23,653.6926214 And I remember being very thrown off by this experience at, at first with time. 370 00:41:23,653.6926214 --> 00:41:36,733.6926214 I came to understand it as an essential piece of any sort of treatment for, for you to know, for the practitioners to know, what are you looking for? Why did you choose this modality, you know, a massage. 371 00:41:36,733.6926214 --> 00:41:53,653.6926214 What does that even mean? What are you looking for in this, in this healing practice? Uh, and how can I tailor it to what you're needing or, and how can I help you find the pieces of this that fit for, that fit for your purposes too? Yeah. 372 00:41:53,923.6926214 --> 00:42:08,383.6926214 I think that is like one of the things that really helped me, um, in my healing journey with yoga is being able to sit down and really think about what I needed to, well. 373 00:42:10,108.6926214 --> 00:42:15,508.6926214 You also teach, uh, teachers now you, you, you're a trainer of new teachers. 374 00:42:15,778.6926214 --> 00:42:26,98.6926214 What are some of the lessons that you really hope people leave training with, aside from like how to, you know, guide poses and prevent injuries, of course, but beyond that. 375 00:42:27,163.6926214 --> 00:42:27,643.6926214 Right. 376 00:42:28,543.6926214 --> 00:42:37,693.6926214 Um, that, you know, everyone has their own unique voice and offering, um, what someone may need from cnu. 377 00:42:38,443.6926214 --> 00:42:44,233.6926214 They may not need it from Dan, or, you know, can anybody do it like Dan? Right. 378 00:42:44,293.6926214 --> 00:42:51,553.6926214 Can anybody do it? Like, and I think what happens oftentimes with new teachers is they wanna reach this standard. 379 00:42:52,183.6926214 --> 00:42:57,283.6926214 Um, and I think the only standard is really just safety. 380 00:42:58,543.6926214 --> 00:43:04,63.6926214 Um, other than that, like your journey and teaching is gonna look different. 381 00:43:04,858.6926214 --> 00:43:05,998.6926214 From everyone else's. 382 00:43:06,88.6926214 --> 00:43:14,908.6926214 And you really have to find like, what resonates with you when it comes to what do you wanna offer people? Uh, and I think that is gonna be the biggest thing. 383 00:43:15,508.6926214 --> 00:43:20,548.6926214 Um, I know for me it was grief, you know, navigating grief with people. 384 00:43:20,908.6926214 --> 00:43:27,833.6926214 Um, also like using nature as a mirror, um, because of those, because those are my personal experiences. 385 00:43:28,498.6926214 --> 00:43:35,968.6926214 And I think experiential knowledge is just as big as educational, um, or learned knowledge. 386 00:43:36,58.6926214 --> 00:43:51,418.6926214 Um, so I think instructors should really lean on experiential knowledge as well as training because it'll give them more authenticity when, when they share their offerings, when they share their gifts. 387 00:43:52,273.6926214 --> 00:44:02,323.6926214 It's similar to what we were discussing with yoga therapy in that they're tailoring the teaching experience to them and what they themselves as unique practitioners would be able to offer. 388 00:44:02,473.6926214 --> 00:44:10,213.6926214 So it's like merging your own lively, your own life and experience with this practice and not just becoming the practice. 389 00:44:11,713.6926214 --> 00:44:12,103.6926214 Yeah. 390 00:44:12,463.6926214 --> 00:44:33,360.8023057 But it also takes a skill to be able to use experiential knowledge and not make it about you, How do you avoid that pitfall? I think really staying curious about the person you're working with, um, not inserting your own personal experience. 391 00:44:34,20.8023057 --> 00:44:43,920.8023057 Um, and I think there are times where you may be like, you know what? I've experienced this, but you'll kind of be able to intuit when it's appropriate. 392 00:44:44,250.8023057 --> 00:44:47,520.8023057 I mean, I always kind of like play it safe and I don't. 393 00:44:49,230.8023057 --> 00:44:57,120.8023057 Unless it's a person that I like know, uh, when it's a client, I tend not to bring my personal life into it. 394 00:44:57,630.8023057 --> 00:45:03,810.8023057 Um, but I think leaning on curiosity is your best bet. 395 00:45:04,380.8023057 --> 00:45:15,481.8023057 I resonate with that also in the, in the therapeutic profession, the person in front of you is always a new variable that, um, how to put it. 396 00:45:16,455.8023057 --> 00:45:28,665.8023057 Comes before anything you've learned or think, you know, it's a, it's a whole new world in front of you that tests theories that, that, that, that could be like the exception to to all the, to all the knowledge in the world. 397 00:45:30,45.8023057 --> 00:45:30,535.8023057 Exactly. 398 00:45:32,265.8023057 --> 00:45:32,755.8023057 Exactly. 399 00:45:34,515.8023057 --> 00:45:41,775.8023057 You were talking about grief earlier, and I wanna ask you a little bit about grief mapping and trauma-informed yoga. 400 00:45:42,225.8023057 --> 00:45:43,995.8023057 What is, what are Okay. 401 00:45:44,625.8023057 --> 00:45:59,110.8023057 about? I think I can speak a little bit more to, uh, trauma informed yoga and just being able to determine like what touch, feel safe. 402 00:45:59,755.8023057 --> 00:46:06,505.8023057 When not to touch, how to approach people, what poses don't feel safe. 403 00:46:07,135.8023057 --> 00:46:17,95.8023057 Um, one thing I learned recently was about the shoulder RINs interlacing your fingers behind your back. 404 00:46:17,455.8023057 --> 00:46:22,645.8023057 That can be traumatic for people that have been arrested or incarcerated. 405 00:46:23,155.8023057 --> 00:46:50,335.8023057 Um, so just kind of like a heightened awareness, right? I think is gonna be important with trauma-informed yoga, being able to like read your audience and be mindful of certain words or volume or lighting, um, those types of things, right? And sometimes it's challenging for people to like move slowly. 406 00:46:50,935.8023057 --> 00:46:56,155.8023057 So I think it really is not a one size fits all. 407 00:46:57,355.8023057 --> 00:47:05,935.8023057 Trauma informed yoga, but it is a certain, like mindfulness you have to have when you are teaching trauma informed yoga and you really have to know where you're going. 408 00:47:05,935.8023057 --> 00:47:15,295.8023057 'cause you may be teaching trauma informed yoga at a prison or, or a transitional housing or to young children. 409 00:47:15,625.8023057 --> 00:47:21,595.8023057 Uh, so yeah, it's another customizable kind of experience. 410 00:47:21,595.8023057 --> 00:47:22,795.8023057 The trauma informed yoga. 411 00:47:23,635.8023057 --> 00:47:31,45.8023057 I've been meaning to sit down and have a conversation with the yoga teacher at, um, the psychiatric hospital where I currently work at. 412 00:47:31,280.8023057 --> 00:47:34,375.8023057 She, she hosts a yoga class with the, with patients there. 413 00:47:34,555.8023057 --> 00:47:38,545.8023057 The, the patients who have been patients there for a while now. 414 00:47:38,875.8023057 --> 00:47:40,285.8023057 Um, and she hosts a yoga class with them. 415 00:47:40,285.8023057 --> 00:47:46,615.8023057 And I know the patients really enjoy it, but, and when I've seen the class from, from the outside, they don't, they know they don't have mats. 416 00:47:46,615.8023057 --> 00:47:49,615.8023057 It's a pretty, um, low resource setting. 417 00:47:49,615.8023057 --> 00:47:51,115.8023057 So they don't, they don't use mats. 418 00:47:51,505.8023057 --> 00:47:55,615.8023057 And I think that yoga is sort of redefined in that small setting. 419 00:47:56,410.8023057 --> 00:48:02,470.8023057 I'm sure that there are certain considerations that that teacher has to make for the patients at this, in this place too. 420 00:48:02,500.8023057 --> 00:48:09,700.8023057 You know, even something as simple as closing your eyes could be traumatic for someone who's, who's been, who's been locked up for. 421 00:48:09,700.8023057 --> 00:48:18,730.8023057 So while if I, I say locked up, but it's, and I, I say it and I don't say it at the same time, but there's something about being locked up when you're in a, in a, in a clinical hospital. 422 00:48:20,170.8023057 --> 00:48:20,650.8023057 Yeah. 423 00:48:20,800.8023057 --> 00:48:22,150.8023057 Yeah, that's another big one. 424 00:48:22,150.8023057 --> 00:48:26,920.8023057 Like, so you can offer a soft gaze instead of eyes all the way closed. 425 00:48:27,280.8023057 --> 00:48:40,375.8023057 Right? So just being mindful of those kind of details, um, it contributes to the whole trauma informed or trauma conscious philosophy, so, I know our time is limited. 426 00:48:40,405.8023057 --> 00:48:43,495.8023057 I wanted to connect two ideas before we start wrapping up. 427 00:48:43,645.8023057 --> 00:48:47,515.8023057 Um, one is the idea of playful and the other one is the idea of motherhood. 428 00:48:47,875.8023057 --> 00:48:51,595.8023057 I know that it's a really important role and identity for you. 429 00:48:52,135.8023057 --> 00:49:07,240.8023057 I wonder, um, if if your, if your, if you as a mother, if incorporate yoga into mothering, does your, does your daughter have an understanding of, um, of yoga? Does she My daughter has, my daughter has steered so clear of yoga. 430 00:49:07,300.8023057 --> 00:49:07,780.8023057 Okay. 431 00:49:07,840.8023057 --> 00:49:09,70.8023057 She's like, I don't wanna do that. 432 00:49:09,280.8023057 --> 00:49:17,800.8023057 But I think really what that is, is her trying to parp her own path, um, because I have my yoga, her father has his thing that he's feeling great at. 433 00:49:18,220.8023057 --> 00:49:24,460.8023057 Um, and she is just like trying to find her own lane. 434 00:49:24,670.8023057 --> 00:49:28,0.8023057 And she has, she's an amazing artist and she's self-taught. 435 00:49:28,480.8023057 --> 00:49:31,330.8023057 Um, and she's doing really great work. 436 00:49:31,480.8023057 --> 00:49:34,750.8023057 Um, she's learning, she's growing. 437 00:49:35,320.8023057 --> 00:49:42,855.8023057 Uh, so one thing we have done well, one thing I have done with Eric growing up is, uh. 438 00:49:44,80.8023057 --> 00:49:48,610.8023057 Teaching her how to use her breath moments where she feels overwhelmed or anxious. 439 00:49:48,940.8023057 --> 00:49:50,350.8023057 That's one thing she does. 440 00:49:50,860.8023057 --> 00:49:56,290.8023057 Um, but as far as like the asana, she's not really into that. 441 00:49:56,680.8023057 --> 00:50:03,550.8023057 Uh, and I suppose with art, there are yoga principles that you use. 442 00:50:03,550.8023057 --> 00:50:08,860.8023057 So in a sense she is practicing, but just using a different modality. 443 00:50:09,446.9687903 --> 00:50:11,41.9687903 Thank you for yoga looks different. 444 00:50:11,731.9687903 --> 00:50:11,851.9687903 Yeah. 445 00:50:11,851.9687903 --> 00:50:12,151.9687903 Yeah. 446 00:50:12,151.9687903 --> 00:50:12,152.9687903 Yeah. 447 00:50:12,157.9687903 --> 00:50:13,231.9687903 It looks different for us all. 448 00:50:14,356.9687903 --> 00:50:21,286.9687903 I'm so thankful for this time together, uh, from opposite Poles of the Earth, connected again six years later. 449 00:50:22,526.9687903 --> 00:50:22,746.9687903 Yes. 450 00:50:22,926.9687903 --> 00:50:23,146.9687903 Yes. 451 00:50:23,146.9687903 --> 00:50:23,147.9687903 Yes. 452 00:50:23,996.9687903 --> 00:50:26,146.9687903 Thank Thank you so much for, for sitting down. 453 00:50:28,861.9687903 --> 00:50:29,491.9687903 thank you. 454 00:50:29,491.9687903 --> 00:50:30,991.9687903 This was a great conversation. 455 00:50:30,991.9687903 --> 00:50:32,911.9687903 It didn't really feel like an interview. 456 00:50:32,911.9687903 --> 00:50:34,416.9687903 It just felt like talking with a friend. 457 00:50:35,596.9687903 --> 00:50:36,221.9687903 That's the spirit. 458 00:50:41,513.8153725 --> 00:50:42,563.8153725 Thanks for being here. 459 00:50:43,133.8153725 --> 00:50:50,663.8153725 If this conversation resonated with you, consider reviewing therapy for the world or sharing the link with someone who might appreciate it. 460 00:50:51,323.8153725 --> 00:50:54,773.8153725 Until next time, speak with care and listen deeply.