October 13, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, Alexis sits down with Helen Shanahan, an evocative Perth-based folk singer-songwriter whose music gently whispers tales of life, love, and longing. With a voice that captures vulnerability and truth, Helen has become a beloved figure in the local music scene, not only for her storytelling but also as the creator and host of The Songwriters Cafe, a performance series that celebrates original music and the art of songwriting.
Together, Alexis and Helen dive into the creative process behind her songs, the emotional honesty that fuels her writing, and how she continues to nurture community through connection and melody.
If you’d like to see more, you can follow on instagram; @ helenshanahan and @ songwriterscafe
This episode was recorded on 17 August 2025 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
…
Creative resources:
Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers
Let’s get social:
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TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I
am your host here at Through the Creative
Door.
On behalf of myself and my guests, I
would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and
custodians on which this podcast is recorded and
produced.
May we pay our respects to all First
Nations people and acknowledge Elders past and present.
(00:32):
On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an
array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into
their worlds and having some honest and inspiring
conversations along the way.
I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the
Creative Door.
Oh my goodness, Helen Shanahan, I am so
(00:53):
chuffed to have you Through the Creative Door.
I am so honoured to be Through the
Creative Door.
I'm just enamoured by you and everything that
you do and everything you touch.
And yeah, just so grateful that you said
yes to chatting.
Thank you for having me, honestly, and with
a baby in tow.
Thank you so much.
Hey, for the working mums, that's what we
(01:14):
do.
Not me personally, but like collectively, I've had
a few guests that have had to wrangle
kids as well and they are more than
welcome to come on the podcast.
Very inclusive, thank you.
So for those listening that may or may
not know the calibre of work and the
amazing, talented bear that you are, my goodness,
(01:37):
you are such an amazing singer-songwriter, you're
such an amazing storyteller.
For those listening, if you haven't been to
one of her shows, my good God, people,
get to a show.
You won't be disappointed.
You're just mesmerising, absolutely stunning.
Thank you.
You've toured extensively, all the way around Australia,
(01:59):
overseas.
I could go on and list all the
people that you've been on Bills.
But additional to that, you also host and
created this amazing show called the Songwriters Cafe.
It's such a courageous thing to start something
new, even though of course you're a muso
and it's in that sort of realm.
But still, it's like, I have this idea
and I'm going to start a thing and
(02:21):
you just don't know how it's going to
go.
Exactly, lots of fear, lots of fear.
But you said off mic that at the
time of us filming today, it's four years
running.
Yes, four years now.
And it actually came about because I lived
in London, like many fellow Aussies.
I spent a year in the UK and
(02:43):
it was really transformative for me because living
in Perth, it's an amazing community.
But at the same time, I guess clicks
that might form.
And for me, I felt sometimes like I
didn't know where my place was.
And I think moving overseas, it broadened my
horizons.
And I saw people in London, just do
(03:05):
whatever they wanted because it was just the
sheer number of people that were over there
and the diversity that I saw over there.
I came home and I was like, what
is actually stopping me from just doing what
I want?
Yes, there are groups that form.
The only person that is actually stopping me
is myself.
That year away gave me the courage to
(03:25):
say, I've always wanted to start something like
I saw when on my travels to Nashville
at the Bluebird Cafe.
And seeing, I guess, a songwriter in their
most purest form, because for me, when I
write a song, it's just myself and the
guitar or myself and the piano.
And I wanted to emulate that and have
(03:45):
the audience there for that kind of raw,
intimate vibe.
I just got the courage to ask more
and more cafe, which is in Fremantle, would
you mind if we had this night?
I was just lucky they got behind it
and all the stars aligned and the artists
that first played were on board.
And it was just a very small crowd
(04:07):
for the first one because it was just
during the COVID times and it was able
to build from there.
I think it's a book that says, feel
the fear and do it anyway.
Have you read that book?
I'm sure we need to put that in
the show notes.
It's because I, which I'm sure we'll delve
into at some point, but I deal with
(04:27):
a lot of anxiety, which I'm sure is
fraught for many musicians.
But I was seeing a therapist in the
early stages.
And she was like, if you didn't have
that, what would you do?
And she kept trying to tell me, if
you didn't have that anxiety, what would you
do?
And I was like, I just go out
there and do it.
Read this book, feel the fear and do
it anyway.
And that kind of stays with me to
(04:49):
this day.
Yeah, sorry, long winded answer, but yes, the
Sunrise Cafe, I just took the plunge and
did it.
And I'm so lucky that it's still going
to this day.
Yes.
Stunning.
And additional to the people listening, if you
are ever in Fremantle, Western Australia, get to
one of the shows.
It's the first week of each month.
(05:11):
Is that the?
Yes, the first Wednesday of each month we
try and do it.
So, yes.
So beautiful and such a gorgeous setting, such
the aesthetic just is perfect.
Absolutely.
It is gorgeous.
We're very lucky to that the cafe is
still really happy to work with us.
Now, I'm in your beautiful home.
(05:34):
Thank you so much for coming.
You just mentioned just before, obviously, the guitar
is one of the beautiful instruments that you
connect with and play, which I can see.
Yes, there's a few stringed instruments there to
your left for those listening.
I'm in a beautiful space in your home
and you've got a wonderful upright piano behind
(05:54):
you.
It's very out of tune, Alexis, so please
forgive me.
It's got character.
It's got character, that's for sure.
But I'm curious, what does a creative space
mean to you and why?
I think for me, it's almost, I don't
want to sound too regimented about it, but
(06:16):
for me, it's almost like that's where I
work essentially.
And that's where I need somewhere where I
can say, here's where I go to sleep,
but here's where I create.
But for me, that has to be really
calming space and has to be somewhere I
feel like I'm free to just be myself
so I can get the best out of
myself.
(06:37):
We moved to Maylands about two years ago
and it's not a massive house.
It's not a massive space and we've got
two kids, but just to have a little
corner where I know I can go to
work and just get into that place is
everything to me because it means that I
can just take myself out of doing the
(06:57):
washing or being in the kitchen.
Exactly, yeah.
So it's like a little slice of house.
And even when I was in London and
I was living in a very small flat
with my good friend Joe, who was a
bass player, my husband, and even my dog,
we brought him over as well.
(07:19):
But I was working in a little, it
was like the laundry space, but I made
that the space where I went to do
the creativity and write my songs and you
just make it yours.
And that's where all the creative juices start
to flow.
But to me, it doesn't have to be
a big space.
It just has to be things that make
me feel calm, like having my little plant
(07:41):
here, even though it's probably seen better days.
And looking out behind me, I see a
beautiful little stained glass window and the piano.
It's not perfect.
Things are out of tune, but it's my
space.
I think that's what helps me get in
the zone.
Yeah.
How do you go with, because I'm curious,
(08:02):
there's been certain people that have been on
the podcast where they struggle to write when
anyone's in the house.
How do you go with that?
I've had to quickly get over that with
the kids.
(08:29):
I really do relate to that too, because
when I was younger, I never sung in
front of anyone and I would shut my
door and I didn't want anyone to be
in the house.
I had to really just make sure that
no one was home and that my mum
(08:51):
wasn't around.
And so I can really relate to that.
But I think circumstances for me are so
different now.
If I waited for that, then I wouldn't
create at all.
So I've really had to push myself out
of my comfort zone.
And I just like always keep my iPhone
handy and do voice notes constantly.
Or I might just scroll something down or
(09:13):
write something in my phone.
And for me, it's very here, there and
everywhere at the moment.
So I'm sure that might change when these
little ones are older.
But at the moment, it's just whenever I
can, whoever's there, just do it.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Now I'm curious, you, we've delved into and
(09:33):
only touched the surface of all the amazing
creative adventures you've had.
But is there something that you're most proud
of creating?
And how did it come about?
The Songwriters Cafe, like we've talked, and I
think that's because it's not just, it's not
about me.
And I feel like, you know, everything when
you're an artist, as you are, everything's very
(09:56):
like my feelings and me, which is great
and cathartic, and we love to connect.
But there's nothing like giving others a space
to maybe, I remember clearly, just inviting a
student into the round, who was really struggling
with fear of performing, but she's one of
the most amazing writers you've heard.
(10:18):
And just having the space to do that
and seeing that come to life and seeing
the audience, like enamoured with them too.
And just giving people that space, I think,
is something that I'm very proud of.
And my own work, I guess I'm proud
of it, but I feel like it's something
I need to work on is being proud
of what I do because of that constant,
(10:40):
you know, crippling self-doubt that, and I've
always learned to just, if I've achieved something,
to push it down and not celebrate it.
But I think I need to celebrate it
a bit more and look back and, yeah,
just be like, you got through the adversity
of self-doubt to actually do that.
I should be proud of it.
So, yeah, I think your question is actually,
(11:02):
yeah, making me want to be more proud
of what I do.
So, thank you.
Yeah, good.
Have some time to reflect on that.
Exactly, yeah.
It's interesting that you bring that to the
forefront because I feel like, whether it's other
creatives or people listening to the podcast, there's
so much of that we can relate to.
(11:24):
Yes.
There's an artist, a dear friend of mine,
and I constantly, every time he releases something,
I'm having to be that really voice of
reason of, have you just spent a moment
today to just pat yourself on the back
and be like, you've leased something today because
he's already moved on to the next thing.
And he's, oh, but it's just a release
day.
And I'm like, give it, yeah, you've put
(11:44):
your heart and soul into it.
You need to take stock.
And I think in Australia, there's always that,
you're tall popping.
So, you're always like, okay, that's good, but
just keep your head down and just move
on to the next thing.
And that's so ingrained in me and not
saying that I want to be like, oh,
check this out.
I think we do put almost like house
(12:06):
deposits we spend on our releases.
We should be proud of what we do,
but in reality, it's, we're usually thinking of
the next project and how can I make
that next video or how can I connect
to that person?
Yeah.
But in short, I am proud of the
Songwriters Cafe and I'm also, yeah, I am
proud of the recordings as well, but there
(12:27):
is nothing like collaboration and meeting people and
artists.
Yeah.
You spoke about that off mic, actually, about
the correlations of the people that have come
across your path through that show.
And I feel the same in regards to
the podcast.
I've come across people on my journey that
I would have never come across without this
wonderful project.
(12:48):
So, yeah, I can relate to that.
I feel you, I feel you.
Yeah.
Now, on the flip side of things that
we're proud of.
Yes.
What's something that's challenged your creativity?
And we've delved into touch the surface on
something and I don't want to lead to
your questions this particular way, but I'd be
interested to know whether that would be the
(13:10):
thing that you've battled with.
Ah, absolutely.
No, I'm, I think it's a great question
because, yeah, I'm quite open about like my
struggle with anxiety and depression.
I've had that since high school without giving
it a name and not knowing why I
felt like this for so long.
But music was always that outlet for me.
(13:33):
But it wasn't until recently, it's so much
more in our vocabulary.
Exactly, vocabulary.
Everyone's like, most people deal with it.
But at the time, it was very like,
you must repress this and keep this in.
And that was a big roadblock for me
for actually getting started.
And I surrounded myself with people that were
not the best to be around.
(13:55):
They were quite toxic, because I felt like
I was lesser.
And I thought that's where I'm meant to
be.
And it really squashed me down.
And yeah, I'm surprised that I got to
the point that I am at this point.
And I guess when we talk about being
proud, I guess I'm proud that I got
to that point.
But I'm not so proud of how I
let myself be walked over for a long
(14:18):
time.
But that just comes with learning and growth.
And I'm, in a way, I'm glad I
had those experiences so I can, for my
children, I can help them and help them
recognise that in themselves.
But I definitely got myself into a lot
of situations that I would not recommend.
And that comes down to personally, but also
(14:41):
in the studio, I got myself into places
where I was just going along with things.
And I wasn't happy with it.
It took me too late to tell the
person, actually, I'm not happy with this, made
them upset.
And I feel like I definitely learned the
hard way.
And in the early days as a songwriter,
(15:01):
and just very naive and thinking everyone thinks
the same way as me, but not really.
I think had I had a bit more
self-confidence, and yeah, again, I think now
that I'm talking about it, I think it
was so ingrained in me to just never
be happy of anything good that I did.
I was like, no, I've got to keep
(15:21):
my head down and I've got to shrink.
And that only probably left me like maybe
10 or 12 years ago, seeing a therapist
and starting medication.
And when I was on the medication, I
was like, I can't believe I was living
like this for so long.
What a heaviness was on my back has
(15:43):
had just lifted.
Yeah, that was probably the biggest hurdle to
get through.
And still to this day, I definitely still
grapple with it, but I can manage it.
And I've had so many different learning tools
that I can implement and things that I
can, yeah, get me through the day and
get me through the gig and whatnot.
Is there like, because you said that it
(16:06):
crippled you and took real estate for 12
years.
Do you think there was like a catalyst,
like a point in time where you were
like, something's got to give, I need to
find a better way?
Absolutely.
And that actually came from, I met my
now husband and up until then, I'd just
(16:27):
been living at home with my parents as
we all do.
And I didn't realise how bad it was
until I lived with someone that was not
my family.
I guess like when we started to live
together and saw how I would just be
upset about things and worked up and so
overthinking when I had to go to a
gig.
I was like, it took for him to
(16:48):
see myself through his eyes to be like,
this is no way to live.
And also for my partner, I didn't want
him to have to see me like that.
And so he was a big catalyst for
me to think I'm worthy of more and
I'm worthy of getting help.
Whereas before the people I surrounded myself with
almost liked me in that place.
(17:10):
They were like, that's great because we can
lord over her in a way.
And I, yeah, I really did get myself
into some bad situations just from not knowing
that there was a better way to live
essentially.
So yeah, for anyone else that deals with
that, I feel you and I hope that
if it resonates with you, that you've got
someone to show you that you are worth
(17:33):
getting the help you need.
Yeah.
Sorry if I'm bringing it down.
Thank you so much for being so transparent
with us.
And it's, you're not the only one that
struggles with it.
And it's just amazing to be able to
know that maybe having that mirror someone in
your life to, to show you or maybe
(17:54):
encourage you that there was a better way.
And exactly.
And like you said, you now have had
help and you now have tools, strategies to
work with.
Exactly.
Whereas chipping away at it every day is
a new challenge, but you can get through
it.
You can get through it.
Now we were speaking about obviously this beautiful
(18:14):
little corner oasis in your home for creativity.
And you mentioned that there's nice little things
in this space that you draw upon.
Yes, absolutely.
Like the plants and the stained glass window.
Yeah.
But I'm curious if you had to pinpoint,
is there an object or a thing that
(18:35):
you can't live without when you're creating?
Definitely can't live without, I guess a notebook,
which is actually not in my space right
now, but I usually, I know it's like
very in this day and age.
And I said before, I do use my
notes app and things like that, but I
feel like putting pen to paper is just,
(18:57):
that's how I always started when I was
in high school, keeping a journal.
It was one of my tools initially to
just get everything out of my head.
So I think sitting down in this little
nook, getting out just a journal and a
pen and just writing like without that, I
feel like I'm a bit lost.
Otherwise I'm just in my phone a lot.
(19:18):
And I try, I'm on my phone a
lot, like I'm sure lots of people are
and are scrolling or that TikToks and Instagram,
but to have that, just the pen and
the paper, I think, yeah, it's really just
puts me in that mindset, that songwriting mindset.
We spoke off mic before about how sometimes
(19:38):
an instrument, like we spoke about how a
piano is like that extension.
And I think you'd be the same as
me where the pen to paper is almost
that extension of your subconscious and it flows
without you really thinking too much about it,
which for typing on a phone, even though
it's great and we're so used to doing
(19:59):
it, it's still like a different level.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's just something that feels natural and yeah,
gets you into the zone.
So yeah.
If you could give one piece of advice,
one nugget of gold to another creative, what
(20:19):
would it be?
Ah, this age old question, what would it
be?
I think it's probably going to sound quite
typical, but I think it's to remain true
to yourself and your spirit, because I think
in our industry, music industry, I know personally
(20:43):
that I always feel like, oh, I should
be a little bit more like this, or
I'd be a bit more liked if I
did that, or if I sounded like that
or wore that or talked differently.
But I think what I always look, want
to look back on, I always think of
myself as in my old, older age.
(21:05):
If I was to do that, would I
be happy with that?
Would I still resonate with that?
And I think I want to look back
and know that I was always reflecting the
point of my life that I was at,
rather than trying to be what I thought
other people wanted from me.
And it's something that I always have to
remind myself because I always catch myself doing
(21:27):
it.
I always think, oh my gosh, yeah, maybe
I need to be a little bit more
pop there or that, which is absolutely fine
if that's what's giving you your joy and
that's what's igniting your spark.
But I think try not to do it
for the sake of pleasing other people, because
then you look back and it won't be...
Authentic.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:47):
So I think it's a hard thing to
do, but if you can do it, then
keep holding on.
Hold on to your dear life.
Hold on.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do right
now.
Hold on to dear life.
All said, every time a guest says these
little bits, lengthy bits of wisdom, I'm like,
(22:08):
yes, I've got to remind myself of this.
Yes, Alexis.
I know, but we get in that zone,
don't we?
And I need to remind myself too.
So yeah, you just...
So that's what we're here for.
Yeah, exactly.
We're all reminding each other.
Exactly.
True, true.
We've got this.
We've got each other.
Yeah, yeah.
(22:28):
Now, if someone wanted to develop their creative
process...
Yes.
They wanted to do what you do, whether
that be producing a show, being a singer
-songwriter.
Yes.
All those wonderful things.
Is there any resources that you would recommend?
Any books, podcasts?
(22:50):
Ah, yes.
Courses?
Oh, absolutely.
Oh my God.
I'm sure your other guests have named probably
a lot of what I would But The
Artist's Way by Julia Cameron is such an
amazing book if you're like, where do I
start?
Because that goes through ways to unlock your
(23:12):
artistry in a very safe way where you
don't feel pressure and you can just do
it at your own pace.
And that's a really wonderful resource.
If you want to get a bit deeper
on lyrics, Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattinson.
Have you heard of that one?
Yeah, that's an amazing book to develop your
(23:32):
lyrics.
What inspired me greatly in a very uninspired
phase of my life was joining iHeart Songwriting
Club because that actually gave me all the
songs for my last album, Canvas, which is
where each week they give you a topic
each week and you have to write your
(23:53):
song in an hour and then upload it
onto the system.
And then you get feedback from all the
other writers in the club.
And it's just such a good way.
For instance, I was very time poor and
still am.
So I was like, the one hour that
I had, I just wrote my song, I
had the theme there, I had the parameters,
(24:15):
and I just went for it, uploaded it
and got the feedback.
And at the end of the term, you
have 10 songs.
So it's just something to keep you accountable.
Because I think the other thing, if you're
just starting out, is that we're very judgemental
on what we do.
And you might be thinking, this isn't good
enough.
Oh, I'm going to start again.
And I've only written one verse.
(24:37):
But what something like the club did for
me is to just let go of perfection
and just finish the thing, just write it,
move on to the next thing.
And that's the only way to improve is
to just keep finishing things.
And you might be able to find something
that you liked in a song, even if
it's not the whole song.
(24:58):
So yeah, I think just finishing things is
another bit of advice that I've always tried
to stick with as well, even if I'm
not happy with it.
A lot can be said for, in both
of those circumstances, a lot can be said
for holding space to be like, every week,
a new song.
Like without fail, that is the commitment.
(25:18):
Exactly.
And yeah, again, following through and just like
rightly or wrongly, however I feel about it,
just in the process of finishing.
Yeah, exactly.
A lot can be said for that.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Accountability.
Yes.
Good.
Which is always why it's nice to have
others in the room that you have to
be accountable for.
Exactly.
I always put the analogy of having a
PT at the gym.
Oh my gosh, yes, that's so true.
(25:40):
Yes, exactly.
I can totally do it on my own.
Someone's waiting there for me and I have
to show up.
Exactly.
That's right.
It's so true.
I love that amount.
I'm going to steal that one.
I'll be here all week.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Now I've got an extra question for you.
(26:00):
Yes.
If you could have anyone else come on
this podcast and answer these questions, who would
it be and why?
Oh my goodness.
There's so many people in the Perth scene
that are just incredible.
Someone who I really admire, I guess just
in the Perth scene, that would be really
interesting to have on is Rose Parker.
(26:23):
Have you met Rose before?
I haven't personally, but I know who she
is.
Yes.
She was such a big help for me
because I saw her as an OT and
she helped me with so much tension that
I had in my neck and my jaw
and my chest and everywhere.
While she was helping me with that, she
actually helped me a lot mentally with songwriting
(26:46):
as well and artist and showed me how
things were connected from my body to my
actual singing and my work and how her
journey through songwriting and also working as an
OT, I think would be really interesting to
hear how she also has maintained stamina through.
(27:07):
She was in a band called The Velvet
Janes when she was younger and how she
kept finding joy for herself with writing and
pivoting.
I think that could be really cool to
listen to.
That's someone in the Perth scene, but if
you were going to have someone from, I
think, I don't know if Claire lives in
Victoria?
I think she does these days.
(27:27):
I think she moved during COVID or something.
If you could get her on, she would
be incredible.
Shoot my shot.
Come on, shoot your shot.
Get her on.
I think she would have lots of nuggets
of wisdom as well.
Yeah, there's just so many people and I
know that you're going to keep on doing
this for many a year to come.
Thank you for doing what you do and
going behind the creative door and finding all
(27:51):
these pearls of wisdom with all the artists
that you talk to because just going through
like in a stalkerish way over the last
week, I've already learned so much.
So thank you for what you do.
Oh my goodness.
Helen Shanahan.
Thank you.
What an absolute joy it's been to have
you on the show.
Thank you and sorry for the distraction.
(28:12):
No, she's glorious.
Auntie, working mommas, that's what's happening.
Yeah.
For those listening, your daughter's clapping.
She is.
Well done, Mum.
Well done.
She's focused on me now, Mum.
(28:32):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of
Through the Creative Door.
If you enjoy our episodes and find value
in them, consider supporting us by making a
donation.
Just visit buymeacoffee.com forward slash through the
(28:55):
creative door or via the link in our
Instagram bio where you can choose an amount
and even write us a little message.
Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate
all of your support.
But if you can't donate, no worries.
You can still help us out by sharing
our podcast with your friends and family and
(29:15):
leaving a review on your favourite platform.
Thanks so much for being part of our
community.
We'll catch you on the next episode.
Bye.
Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I
am your host here at Through the Creative
Door.
On behalf of myself and my guests, I
would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and
custodians on which this podcast is recorded and
produced.
May we pay our respects to all First
Nations people and acknowledge Elders past and present.
(00:32):
On this podcast, I'll be chatting to an
array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into
their worlds and having some honest and inspiring
conversations along the way.
I'm delighted to welcome you to Through the
Creative Door.
Oh my goodness, Helen Shanahan, I am so
(00:53):
chuffed to have you Through the Creative Door.
I am so honoured to be Through the
Creative Door.
I'm just enamoured by you and everything that
you do and everything you touch.
And yeah, just so grateful that you said
yes to chatting.
Thank you for having me, honestly, and with
a baby in tow.
Thank you so much.
Hey, for the working mums, that's what we
(01:14):
do.
Not me personally, but like collectively, I've had
a few guests that have had to wrangle
kids as well and they are more than
welcome to come on the podcast.
Very inclusive, thank you.
So for those listening that may or may
not know the calibre of work and the
amazing, talented bear that you are, my goodness,
(01:37):
you are such an amazing singer-songwriter, you're
such an amazing storyteller.
For those listening, if you haven't been to
one of her shows, my good God, people,
get to a show.
You won't be disappointed.
You're just mesmerising, absolutely stunning.
Thank you.
You've toured extensively, all the way around Australia,
(01:59):
overseas.
I could go on and list all the
people that you've been on Bills.
But additional to that, you also host and
created this amazing show called the Songwriters Cafe.
It's such a courageous thing to start something
new, even though of course you're a muso
and it's in that sort of realm.
But still, it's like, I have this idea
and I'm going to start a thing and
(02:21):
you just don't know how it's going to
go.
Exactly, lots of fear, lots of fear.
But you said off mic that at the
time of us filming today, it's four years
running.
Yes, four years now.
And it actually came about because I lived
in London, like many fellow Aussies.
I spent a year in the UK and
(02:43):
it was really transformative for me because living
in Perth, it's an amazing community.
But at the same time, I guess clicks
that might form.
And for me, I felt sometimes like I
didn't know where my place was.
And I think moving overseas, it broadened my
horizons.
And I saw people in London, just do
(03:05):
whatever they wanted because it was just the
sheer number of people that were over there
and the diversity that I saw over there.
I came home and I was like, what
is actually stopping me from just doing what
I want?
Yes, there are groups that form.
The only person that is actually stopping me
is myself.
That year away gave me the courage to
(03:25):
say, I've always wanted to start something like
I saw when on my travels to Nashville
at the Bluebird Cafe.
And seeing, I guess, a songwriter in their
most purest form, because for me, when I
write a song, it's just myself and the
guitar or myself and the piano.
And I wanted to emulate that and have
(03:45):
the audience there for that kind of raw,
intimate vibe.
I just got the courage to ask more
and more cafe, which is in Fremantle, would
you mind if we had this night?
I was just lucky they got behind it
and all the stars aligned and the artists
that first played were on board.
And it was just a very small crowd
(04:07):
for the first one because it was just
during the COVID times and it was able
to build from there.
I think it's a book that says, feel
the fear and do it anyway.
Have you read that book?
I'm sure we need to put that in
the show notes.
It's because I, which I'm sure we'll delve
into at some point, but I deal with
(04:27):
a lot of anxiety, which I'm sure is
fraught for many musicians.
But I was seeing a therapist in the
early stages.
And she was like, if you didn't have
that, what would you do?
And she kept trying to tell me, if
you didn't have that anxiety, what would you
do?
And I was like, I just go out
there and do it.
Read this book, feel the fear and do
it anyway.
And that kind of stays with me to
(04:49):
this day.
Yeah, sorry, long winded answer, but yes, the
Sunrise Cafe, I just took the plunge and
did it.
And I'm so lucky that it's still going
to this day.
Yes.
Stunning.
And additional to the people listening, if you
are ever in Fremantle, Western Australia, get to
one of the shows.
It's the first week of each month.
(05:11):
Is that the?
Yes, the first Wednesday of each month we
try and do it.
So, yes.
So beautiful and such a gorgeous setting, such
the aesthetic just is perfect.
Absolutely.
It is gorgeous.
We're very lucky to that the cafe is
still really happy to work with us.
Now, I'm in your beautiful home.
(05:34):
Thank you so much for coming.
You just mentioned just before, obviously, the guitar
is one of the beautiful instruments that you
connect with and play, which I can see.
Yes, there's a few stringed instruments there to
your left for those listening.
I'm in a beautiful space in your home
and you've got a wonderful upright piano behind
(05:54):
you.
It's very out of tune, Alexis, so please
forgive me.
It's got character.
It's got character, that's for sure.
But I'm curious, what does a creative space
mean to you and why?
I think for me, it's almost, I don't
want to sound too regimented about it, but
(06:16):
for me, it's almost like that's where I
work essentially.
And that's where I need somewhere where I
can say, here's where I go to sleep,
but here's where I create.
But for me, that has to be really
calming space and has to be somewhere I
feel like I'm free to just be myself
so I can get the best out of
myself.
(06:37):
We moved to Maylands about two years ago
and it's not a massive house.
It's not a massive space and we've got
two kids, but just to have a little
corner where I know I can go to
work and just get into that place is
everything to me because it means that I
can just take myself out of doing the
(06:57):
washing or being in the kitchen.
Exactly, yeah.
So it's like a little slice of house.
And even when I was in London and
I was living in a very small flat
with my good friend Joe, who was a
bass player, my husband, and even my dog,
we brought him over as well.
(07:19):
But I was working in a little, it
was like the laundry space, but I made
that the space where I went to do
the creativity and write my songs and you
just make it yours.
And that's where all the creative juices start
to flow.
But to me, it doesn't have to be
a big space.
It just has to be things that make
me feel calm, like having my little plant
(07:41):
here, even though it's probably seen better days.
And looking out behind me, I see a
beautiful little stained glass window and the piano.
It's not perfect.
Things are out of tune, but it's my
space.
I think that's what helps me get in
the zone.
Yeah.
How do you go with, because I'm curious,
(08:02):
there's been certain people that have been on
the podcast where they struggle to write when
anyone's in the house.
How do you go with that?
I've had to quickly get over that with
the kids.
(08:29):
I really do relate to that too, because
when I was younger, I never sung in
front of anyone and I would shut my
door and I didn't want anyone to be
in the house.
I had to really just make sure that
no one was home and that my mum
(08:51):
wasn't around.
And so I can really relate to that.
But I think circumstances for me are so
different now.
If I waited for that, then I wouldn't
create at all.
So I've really had to push myself out
of my comfort zone.
And I just like always keep my iPhone
handy and do voice notes constantly.
Or I might just scroll something down or
(09:13):
write something in my phone.
And for me, it's very here, there and
everywhere at the moment.
So I'm sure that might change when these
little ones are older.
But at the moment, it's just whenever I
can, whoever's there, just do it.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Now I'm curious, you, we've delved into and
(09:33):
only touched the surface of all the amazing
creative adventures you've had.
But is there something that you're most proud
of creating?
And how did it come about?
The Songwriters Cafe, like we've talked, and I
think that's because it's not just, it's not
about me.
And I feel like, you know, everything when
you're an artist, as you are, everything's very
(09:56):
like my feelings and me, which is great
and cathartic, and we love to connect.
But there's nothing like giving others a space
to maybe, I remember clearly, just inviting a
student into the round, who was really struggling
with fear of performing, but she's one of
the most amazing writers you've heard.
(10:18):
And just having the space to do that
and seeing that come to life and seeing
the audience, like enamoured with them too.
And just giving people that space, I think,
is something that I'm very proud of.
And my own work, I guess I'm proud
of it, but I feel like it's something
I need to work on is being proud
of what I do because of that constant,
(10:40):
you know, crippling self-doubt that, and I've
always learned to just, if I've achieved something,
to push it down and not celebrate it.
But I think I need to celebrate it
a bit more and look back and, yeah,
just be like, you got through the adversity
of self-doubt to actually do that.
I should be proud of it.
So, yeah, I think your question is actually,
(11:02):
yeah, making me want to be more proud
of what I do.
So, thank you.
Yeah, good.
Have some time to reflect on that.
Exactly, yeah.
It's interesting that you bring that to the
forefront because I feel like, whether it's other
creatives or people listening to the podcast, there's
so much of that we can relate to.
(11:24):
Yes.
There's an artist, a dear friend of mine,
and I constantly, every time he releases something,
I'm having to be that really voice of
reason of, have you just spent a moment
today to just pat yourself on the back
and be like, you've leased something today because
he's already moved on to the next thing.
And he's, oh, but it's just a release
day.
And I'm like, give it, yeah, you've put
(11:44):
your heart and soul into it.
You need to take stock.
And I think in Australia, there's always that,
you're tall popping.
So, you're always like, okay, that's good, but
just keep your head down and just move
on to the next thing.
And that's so ingrained in me and not
saying that I want to be like, oh,
check this out.
I think we do put almost like house
(12:06):
deposits we spend on our releases.
We should be proud of what we do,
but in reality, it's, we're usually thinking of
the next project and how can I make
that next video or how can I connect
to that person?
Yeah.
But in short, I am proud of the
Songwriters Cafe and I'm also, yeah, I am
proud of the recordings as well, but there
(12:27):
is nothing like collaboration and meeting people and
artists.
Yeah.
You spoke about that off mic, actually, about
the correlations of the people that have come
across your path through that show.
And I feel the same in regards to
the podcast.
I've come across people on my journey that
I would have never come across without this
wonderful project.
(12:48):
So, yeah, I can relate to that.
I feel you, I feel you.
Yeah.
Now, on the flip side of things that
we're proud of.
Yes.
What's something that's challenged your creativity?
And we've delved into touch the surface on
something and I don't want to lead to
your questions this particular way, but I'd be
interested to know whether that would be the
(13:10):
thing that you've battled with.
Ah, absolutely.
No, I'm, I think it's a great question
because, yeah, I'm quite open about like my
struggle with anxiety and depression.
I've had that since high school without giving
it a name and not knowing why I
felt like this for so long.
But music was always that outlet for me.
(13:33):
But it wasn't until recently, it's so much
more in our vocabulary.
Exactly, vocabulary.
Everyone's like, most people deal with it.
But at the time, it was very like,
you must repress this and keep this in.
And that was a big roadblock for me
for actually getting started.
And I surrounded myself with people that were
not the best to be around.
(13:55):
They were quite toxic, because I felt like
I was lesser.
And I thought that's where I'm meant to
be.
And it really squashed me down.
And yeah, I'm surprised that I got to
the point that I am at this point.
And I guess when we talk about being
proud, I guess I'm proud that I got
to that point.
But I'm not so proud of how I
let myself be walked over for a long
(14:18):
time.
But that just comes with learning and growth.
And I'm, in a way, I'm glad I
had those experiences so I can, for my
children, I can help them and help them
recognise that in themselves.
But I definitely got myself into a lot
of situations that I would not recommend.
And that comes down to personally, but also
(14:41):
in the studio, I got myself into places
where I was just going along with things.
And I wasn't happy with it.
It took me too late to tell the
person, actually, I'm not happy with this, made
them upset.
And I feel like I definitely learned the
hard way.
And in the early days as a songwriter,
(15:01):
and just very naive and thinking everyone thinks
the same way as me, but not really.
I think had I had a bit more
self-confidence, and yeah, again, I think now
that I'm talking about it, I think it
was so ingrained in me to just never
be happy of anything good that I did.
I was like, no, I've got to keep
(15:21):
my head down and I've got to shrink.
And that only probably left me like maybe
10 or 12 years ago, seeing a therapist
and starting medication.
And when I was on the medication, I
was like, I can't believe I was living
like this for so long.
What a heaviness was on my back has
(15:43):
had just lifted.
Yeah, that was probably the biggest hurdle to
get through.
And still to this day, I definitely still
grapple with it, but I can manage it.
And I've had so many different learning tools
that I can implement and things that I
can, yeah, get me through the day and
get me through the gig and whatnot.
Is there like, because you said that it
(16:06):
crippled you and took real estate for 12
years.
Do you think there was like a catalyst,
like a point in time where you were
like, something's got to give, I need to
find a better way?
Absolutely.
And that actually came from, I met my
now husband and up until then, I'd just
(16:27):
been living at home with my parents as
we all do.
And I didn't realise how bad it was
until I lived with someone that was not
my family.
I guess like when we started to live
together and saw how I would just be
upset about things and worked up and so
overthinking when I had to go to a
gig.
I was like, it took for him to
(16:48):
see myself through his eyes to be like,
this is no way to live.
And also for my partner, I didn't want
him to have to see me like that.
And so he was a big catalyst for
me to think I'm worthy of more and
I'm worthy of getting help.
Whereas before the people I surrounded myself with
almost liked me in that place.
(17:10):
They were like, that's great because we can
lord over her in a way.
And I, yeah, I really did get myself
into some bad situations just from not knowing
that there was a better way to live
essentially.
So yeah, for anyone else that deals with
that, I feel you and I hope that
if it resonates with you, that you've got
someone to show you that you are worth
(17:33):
getting the help you need.
Yeah.
Sorry if I'm bringing it down.
Thank you so much for being so transparent
with us.
And it's, you're not the only one that
struggles with it.
And it's just amazing to be able to
know that maybe having that mirror someone in
your life to, to show you or maybe
(17:54):
encourage you that there was a better way.
And exactly.
And like you said, you now have had
help and you now have tools, strategies to
work with.
Exactly.
Whereas chipping away at it every day is
a new challenge, but you can get through
it.
You can get through it.
Now we were speaking about obviously this beautiful
(18:14):
little corner oasis in your home for creativity.
And you mentioned that there's nice little things
in this space that you draw upon.
Yes, absolutely.
Like the plants and the stained glass window.
Yeah.
But I'm curious if you had to pinpoint,
is there an object or a thing that
(18:35):
you can't live without when you're creating?
Definitely can't live without, I guess a notebook,
which is actually not in my space right
now, but I usually, I know it's like
very in this day and age.
And I said before, I do use my
notes app and things like that, but I
feel like putting pen to paper is just,
(18:57):
that's how I always started when I was
in high school, keeping a journal.
It was one of my tools initially to
just get everything out of my head.
So I think sitting down in this little
nook, getting out just a journal and a
pen and just writing like without that, I
feel like I'm a bit lost.
Otherwise I'm just in my phone a lot.
(19:18):
And I try, I'm on my phone a
lot, like I'm sure lots of people are
and are scrolling or that TikToks and Instagram,
but to have that, just the pen and
the paper, I think, yeah, it's really just
puts me in that mindset, that songwriting mindset.
We spoke off mic before about how sometimes
(19:38):
an instrument, like we spoke about how a
piano is like that extension.
And I think you'd be the same as
me where the pen to paper is almost
that extension of your subconscious and it flows
without you really thinking too much about it,
which for typing on a phone, even though
it's great and we're so used to doing
(19:59):
it, it's still like a different level.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's just something that feels natural and yeah,
gets you into the zone.
So yeah.
If you could give one piece of advice,
one nugget of gold to another creative, what
(20:19):
would it be?
Ah, this age old question, what would it
be?
I think it's probably going to sound quite
typical, but I think it's to remain true
to yourself and your spirit, because I think
in our industry, music industry, I know personally
(20:43):
that I always feel like, oh, I should
be a little bit more like this, or
I'd be a bit more liked if I
did that, or if I sounded like that
or wore that or talked differently.
But I think what I always look, want
to look back on, I always think of
myself as in my old, older age.
(21:05):
If I was to do that, would I
be happy with that?
Would I still resonate with that?
And I think I want to look back
and know that I was always reflecting the
point of my life that I was at,
rather than trying to be what I thought
other people wanted from me.
And it's something that I always have to
remind myself because I always catch myself doing
(21:27):
it.
I always think, oh my gosh, yeah, maybe
I need to be a little bit more
pop there or that, which is absolutely fine
if that's what's giving you your joy and
that's what's igniting your spark.
But I think try not to do it
for the sake of pleasing other people, because
then you look back and it won't be...
Authentic.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:47):
So I think it's a hard thing to
do, but if you can do it, then
keep holding on.
Hold on to your dear life.
Hold on.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do right
now.
Hold on to dear life.
All said, every time a guest says these
little bits, lengthy bits of wisdom, I'm like,
(22:08):
yes, I've got to remind myself of this.
Yes, Alexis.
I know, but we get in that zone,
don't we?
And I need to remind myself too.
So yeah, you just...
So that's what we're here for.
Yeah, exactly.
We're all reminding each other.
Exactly.
True, true.
We've got this.
We've got each other.
Yeah, yeah.
(22:28):
Now, if someone wanted to develop their creative
process...
Yes.
They wanted to do what you do, whether
that be producing a show, being a singer
-songwriter.
Yes.
All those wonderful things.
Is there any resources that you would recommend?
Any books, podcasts?
(22:50):
Ah, yes.
Courses?
Oh, absolutely.
Oh my God.
I'm sure your other guests have named probably
a lot of what I would But The
Artist's Way by Julia Cameron is such an
amazing book if you're like, where do I
start?
Because that goes through ways to unlock your
(23:12):
artistry in a very safe way where you
don't feel pressure and you can just do
it at your own pace.
And that's a really wonderful resource.
If you want to get a bit deeper
on lyrics, Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattinson.
Have you heard of that one?
Yeah, that's an amazing book to develop your
(23:32):
lyrics.
What inspired me greatly in a very uninspired
phase of my life was joining iHeart Songwriting
Club because that actually gave me all the
songs for my last album, Canvas, which is
where each week they give you a topic
each week and you have to write your
(23:53):
song in an hour and then upload it
onto the system.
And then you get feedback from all the
other writers in the club.
And it's just such a good way.
For instance, I was very time poor and
still am.
So I was like, the one hour that
I had, I just wrote my song, I
had the theme there, I had the parameters,
(24:15):
and I just went for it, uploaded it
and got the feedback.
And at the end of the term, you
have 10 songs.
So it's just something to keep you accountable.
Because I think the other thing, if you're
just starting out, is that we're very judgemental
on what we do.
And you might be thinking, this isn't good
enough.
Oh, I'm going to start again.
And I've only written one verse.
(24:37):
But what something like the club did for
me is to just let go of perfection
and just finish the thing, just write it,
move on to the next thing.
And that's the only way to improve is
to just keep finishing things.
And you might be able to find something
that you liked in a song, even if
it's not the whole song.
(24:58):
So yeah, I think just finishing things is
another bit of advice that I've always tried
to stick with as well, even if I'm
not happy with it.
A lot can be said for, in both
of those circumstances, a lot can be said
for holding space to be like, every week,
a new song.
Like without fail, that is the commitment.
(25:18):
Exactly.
And yeah, again, following through and just like
rightly or wrongly, however I feel about it,
just in the process of finishing.
Yeah, exactly.
A lot can be said for that.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Accountability.
Yes.
Good.
Which is always why it's nice to have
others in the room that you have to
be accountable for.
Exactly.
I always put the analogy of having a
PT at the gym.
Oh my gosh, yes, that's so true.
(25:40):
Yes, exactly.
I can totally do it on my own.
Someone's waiting there for me and I have
to show up.
Exactly.
That's right.
It's so true.
I love that amount.
I'm going to steal that one.
I'll be here all week.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Now I've got an extra question for you.
(26:00):
Yes.
If you could have anyone else come on
this podcast and answer these questions, who would
it be and why?
Oh my goodness.
There's so many people in the Perth scene
that are just incredible.
Someone who I really admire, I guess just
in the Perth scene, that would be really
interesting to have on is Rose Parker.
(26:23):
Have you met Rose before?
I haven't personally, but I know who she
is.
Yes.
She was such a big help for me
because I saw her as an OT and
she helped me with so much tension that
I had in my neck and my jaw
and my chest and everywhere.
While she was helping me with that, she
actually helped me a lot mentally with songwriting
(26:46):
as well and artist and showed me how
things were connected from my body to my
actual singing and my work and how her
journey through songwriting and also working as an
OT, I think would be really interesting to
hear how she also has maintained stamina through.
(27:07):
She was in a band called The Velvet
Janes when she was younger and how she
kept finding joy for herself with writing and
pivoting.
I think that could be really cool to
listen to.
That's someone in the Perth scene, but if
you were going to have someone from, I
think, I don't know if Claire lives in
Victoria?
I think she does these days.
(27:27):
I think she moved during COVID or something.
If you could get her on, she would
be incredible.
Shoot my shot.
Come on, shoot your shot.
Get her on.
I think she would have lots of nuggets
of wisdom as well.
Yeah, there's just so many people and I
know that you're going to keep on doing
this for many a year to come.
Thank you for doing what you do and
going behind the creative door and finding all
(27:51):
these pearls of wisdom with all the artists
that you talk to because just going through
like in a stalkerish way over the last
week, I've already learned so much.
So thank you for what you do.
Oh my goodness.
Helen Shanahan.
Thank you.
What an absolute joy it's been to have
you on the show.
Thank you and sorry for the distraction.
(28:12):
No, she's glorious.
Auntie, working mommas, that's what's happening.
Yeah.
For those listening, your daughter's clapping.
She is.
Well done, Mum.
Well done.
She's focused on me now, Mum.
(28:32):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of
Through the Creative Door.
If you enjoy our episodes and find value
in them, consider supporting us by making a
donation.
Just visit buymeacoffee.com forward slash through the
(28:55):
creative door or via the link in our
Instagram bio where you can choose an amount
and even write us a little message.
Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate
all of your support.
But if you can't donate, no worries.
You can still help us out by sharing
our podcast with your friends and family and
(29:15):
leaving a review on your favourite platform.
Thanks so much for being part of our
community.
We'll catch you on the next episode.
Bye.
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