October 14, 2025 • 41 mins
When grief and trauma threaten to pull you under, what if the most effective medicine wasn't sitting still, but moving with purpose? Kevin Howely discovered this truth firsthand after losing his sister, father, and mother in rapid succession between 2017 and 2020. Drawing on his unique background as both a professional clown and neuromuscular massage therapist, Kevin developed "Toss Catch Heal" – a therapeutic juggling method that transforms simple rhythmic movement into profound nervous system regulation.
The science behind this approach is fascinating. Juggling creates bilateral stimulation (similar to EMDR therapy), activates both brain hemispheres, and releases neurochemicals that counteract depression and anxiety. For those stuck in trauma responses, the practice demands presence – you simply can't juggle while lost in rumination about the past or anxiety about the future. This forced presence, combined with gentle movement, creates what Kevin calls "medicine in motion."
What makes this approach particularly valuable is its accessibility, especially for those who struggle with traditional talk therapy. "For men especially, this can be your starting place," Kevin explains. "I know how hard it can be to sit down and talk, but what if healing came through motion? What if taking action was the first therapy that finally worked for you?"
Perhaps most surprising is how the therapeutic benefit extends beyond the successful catches to include the inevitable drops. Learning to drop objects without self-judgment becomes a powerful metaphor for releasing perfectionism and developing resilience. Starting with colorful scarves that slow movement and reduce fear, practitioners gradually build confidence while simultaneously calming their nervous systems.
Whether you're working through grief, anxiety, depression, or simply feeling disconnected from your body, this innovative approach offers a playful yet powerful path toward healing. Visit Kevin's website or connect with him on Instagram to discover how something as simple as tossing and catching might become your unexpected pathway back to wholeness.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey Kevin, Thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So, excuse me.
So, just so everybody knows whoyou are, do you mind?
Just giving us a quickintroduction at the age of 17
and became a professional clownby age 18.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A clown.
In many ways is kind of like apsychologist with a red nose.
Okay, we learn how to connectwith our audience read emotion,
respond with presence and, justyou know, caring individuals
(00:54):
overall.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I would imagine having to connect at that level
with so many people probablymakes you pretty empathetic or
means you need to be prettyempathetic.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Right, right, and knowing you, you know who and
when to approach.
Yeah, uh, you know, uh, withall of the scary movies and such
of that, and you know, uh, youjust have to be aware gotcha go
ahead, nope, okay, so, um, uh,yeah, so uh, what, uh?
(01:32):
What I didn't know back thenwas that juggling would
eventually become a way out, wayout of darkness.
I often say I used the force,the force of gravity, to juggle
my way out of grief, anxiety,you know, maybe a little bit of
depression, and I need a way of.
(02:02):
You know, if juggling workedback then, where I was able to
develop my body and mind, maybethis can happen again.
Sure, that makes sense developthe toss.
(02:23):
So, you toss one apple, thenanother, and then another, and
then until it becomes motion,becomes medicine.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, I would imagine it really brings a sense of
presence too.
You can't be off in la-la landand juggling apples.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Right, right, exactly .
You have to be present in whereyou're at and you know how your
uh, uh, your posture andeverything.
So, uh, you're breathing andyou have to be really at one
with your objects, otherwiseyou're going to mess up.
Sure, and um, so and so, but itdidn't happen overnight.
(03:04):
You know, it took a while.
You know, so many years later,after I learned how to juggle
and I was dealing with my griefand everything and all the
turmoil that I was going through, I discovered that juggling was
(03:26):
more than a skill.
It was a healing art.
(03:50):
And over the next three years,or the past three years from
this point, I developed TossCatch Heal, a somatic, rhythmic
and therapeutic method thatblends play, pattern and
presence.
Okay, and I want to emphasizethe play.
Uh, we're not doing uh repshere.
This, this isn't physicaltherapy with the clipboard,
right?
Uh, this is uh, uh, you know,play a purpose, healing through
movement.
That feels good.
Yeah, if for anyone whostruggles to sit, still doesn't
(04:13):
feel safe talking or just needsa way to reconnect with their
body and nervous system throughaction, sure, nervous system
through action.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Sure, sure, I would imagine.
Yeah too, if you were stuck inlike a fight, flight type trauma
response and that energy hasgot to get out of your body.
You got to get it out somehow.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's usually light exercise or movement is what we,
as somatic coaches, tell peopleto try to help get rid of some
of that energy and some of thatcharge, to help help heal that
and so, uh, one thing that I uhdidn't mention was that, uh,
after I became, uh, after I didclowning for about 10 years, I
(04:53):
became a neuromuscular massagetherapist, and uh, so that, uh,
I've been connected with healthbasically my whole life, like
the natural forms of health, andso I wanted to kind of learn
about the human body for myself,for my own sake, as well as
(05:15):
others, you know, helping otherpeople.
Sure, those two connectionstogether really, you know, while
I was in school I was able tomassage school, I was able to
use juggling to learn how learnthe different, say, the joint
(05:36):
movements, how the differentjoints move Right, and so,
mechanics of the body.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Basically right.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Exactly, Exactly the mechanics of.
And so, coming back more intothe present, you know it's a.
It brings awareness to yourposture.
If you're slumped or rigid,your juggling will reflect that
(06:06):
it's going to be sloppy.
But that's okay at first, right, You're just practicing, You're
trying to learn it and you knowthings happen when you're in an
emotional and mental slump.
You're going to slump over fora while.
Sure, that's just how the bodyworks, right, and so we're going
(06:30):
to.
But eventually you're going towant to be successful with the
juggling, so the body is goingto naturally bring itself into a
more proper position in orderto relax and be able to do the
motion of juggling.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, for sure, and posture can be greatly affected
by the type of trauma responseyou can be in.
For example, like in a freezeresponse, you might slump and
pull your body in and have thatreally slumpy kind of posture
like you're talking about, andthen, as that you move up
through that nervous system,become more safe and present.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
you're automatically going to open up a little bit in
the chest and straight out as amt uh, neuromuscular therapy
therapist um, in my office whatI did was I I would take
pictures of people's posture toshow them exactly what was going
on with their posture, andsometimes they would be leaning
(07:33):
this way, sometimes this way orthat way and a bunch of
different ways, and it canreally affect the person's
mental and emotional state aswell.
So it goes both ways.
You know the the injury or the,the injury to the nervous
(07:54):
system, will affect your moodand vice versa.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, I mean by the feedback loop between your body
and your brain, right?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Right, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I mean by the feedbackloop between your body and your
brain right Right.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, can you tell me about any, any success stories you've had
, maybe just your own, withjuggling and kind of how?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
it helps, aside from my own.
I once I started working withmyself, I I kind of figured,
well, I, I need to find somebody.
And so what I did was I uhactually went to a physical
therapist, uh, uh, place aclinic, and but it wasn't really
(08:41):
up their alley.
So I moved on and I said, okay,well, I need to really buckle
down here and start to do moreresearch to figure out, okay,
where is this going?
Exactly Because I didn't haveall my ducks in a row at that
(09:02):
point, exactly because I didn'thave all my ducks in a row at
that point.
And so I eventually I met afriend of mine now We've
developed a friendship.
But this man came on to a cloneFacebook group and he said he
(09:26):
was looking to become a clown.
And I said you're already aclown, you just haven't had the
proper training yet.
And he just really grabbed onto that and I told him what I do
and what I could probably helphim do, and I told him about the
juggling.
And it turns out that he was aCPA, and we all know how CPAs
(09:53):
are stressed out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Especially during tax season.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Absolutely, and so we were figuring out okay, well,
this is how we can work this out.
We weren't quite sure at thetime, but we worked it out to
where we would do like an onlinecorrespondence where I sent him
(10:19):
videos and he would send mevideos back on his progress, and
he did very well.
Um, he's still working at ittoday because he doesn't uh,
maybe he practiced every singleday, but, uh, he does it often
enough and he's working on itand he's gotten uh better at it
(10:42):
and I think it has helped himwith his you know stress levels
in his job, and so I think thatwas a pretty good success.
Um, and sorry, my screen wentout um, so my uh, so I felt that
(11:05):
was a pretty good success overuh, probably I've I'm still
working with him today, but notas much on the juggling part.
Uh, he's kind of working on hisown for the most part.
He's gotten the basics down,yeah, and every so often I'll
interject and give them somepointers, um, but, um, we're
(11:27):
working on some other uh factors.
That's another story foranother time.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Uh, can you tell us a little bit about what led you
to doing that?
I mean, obviously you hadalready had some experience
clowning, juggling and all ofthis stuff as a kid, so it was
already a skill that you had.
But what made you make theconnection between?
Well, first of all, what wasthe trauma that you went through
?
So, and then, how did you makethe connection to juggling with
that trauma?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So in the in 2017, I had lost my sister.
Uh, the two in 2017, I had lostmy sister.
Okay, and then, uh, in 19, Ilost my uh dad.
And then, in uh 2020, I lost mymom.
And then, uh, I was dealingwith uh basically having to sell
(12:17):
my house, which I didn't reallywant to do.
Um, yeah, it sounds likeeverything kind of fell apart on
you.
Yeah, it was falling apart onme and, uh, I didn't like I said
, I didn't really.
I felt like I was losing somecontrol over what was going on,
and so I felt, okay, well, um, Ineed to feel like I have a
(12:39):
little bit of control, a littlebit of more confidence in myself
.
Bring that back.
And so I decided I practiced alittle bit during the winter,
but where I was located at thattime, I was renting in someone's
home and the ceiling was verylow, so I couldn't really juggle
(13:04):
clubs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Sure, you know, indoors no flaming bowling ball
pins, huh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
And so during the spring, itwas nice out.
I said, okay, I'm going outsideto see how this works and see
if this brings back something.
And so I started doing someclub juggling and some other
(13:32):
props, you know, juggling thethree apples I have beanbags
that look like apples, sure andso I was doing the club juggling
.
I was doing different tricksthat I never tried before.
I wanted to see how well Icould do this and where where it
(13:54):
will take me, and so I said, ok, I'm, I'm pushing forward, I'm
trying new stuff, I'm pushingforward, I'm trying new stuff.
And, lo and behold, I had a fewsuccesses.
They weren't huge successes,they were a little bit success,
(14:15):
but it felt big.
And that's the key point.
Right, there is that it feltbig, and that was where the
dopamine rush came, sure.
And so, uh, that just feltreally good, and so I kept doing
it, and so that was the reward,uh, center of the brain, right,
and uh.
(14:37):
So I decided, uh, okay, I'm, I'mgonna, and it's sort of like a
video game.
You know, you land a differentlevel of you know within the
game and you get that reward ofthe dopamine rush.
And so now I'm trying to do itmore and more and more, and it's
(14:59):
feeling good and you're feelingbetter about yourself, you're
feeling confident.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm doing itright, and so, uh, then the next
step was, um, I was stilldealing with some, uh,
rumination of my thoughts, ofwhat had gone on, still, and so
(15:21):
I just kept practicing and Inoticed that when I was actually
doing the juggling, I was notthinking about all my past
issues, I was thinking about thejuggling.
I was being centered, I wasbeing grounded in the present
(15:41):
moment.
I was being centered, I wasbeing grounded in the present
moment.
And so that was the next step.
I noticed that rumination wasquietly shifting away, and it
wasn't gone completely, but itwas just being shifted and being
put on pause for a while.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, are you familiar with polyvagal theory?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I believe, so A little bit of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So basically it's.
It's the concept that yournervous system is like a ladder.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
And up here you're connected.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right, you're in your right, all up, you're in your
safe connected space.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
This is where you're at when you're juggling Right.
Right Down here is your freezestate.
This is where you're at whenyou're sitting on the couch and
can't get up Right.
And then right here is yourfight or flight.
This is where you're fightingor running away, and the idea is
to get any from anywhere onthis ladder back to here takes
mobilizing energy, which can befeel really uncomfortable.
(16:47):
You know, when you're, whenyou're in that frozen state and
you can't, there is no safety,right, right.
What I love about this is it'sit's creating safety because
you're present.
You have to be present in orderto juggle.
You know you're not gonna bemuch of a juggler if you're
thinking about other stuff whenyou're trying to do it, so it
(17:09):
forces you to be present.
And it's also movement.
So it's it's toning your vagal,your vagal nerve right, your
ventral vagal nerve, while alsomobilizing energy and help to
process some of that stuckenergy.
I love it, man.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
It's cool and it's play, and so when you're playing
you're not really thinkingabout all your troubles.
You're playing and yeah, and sothat play gives you that safe
space to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, to be authentic and be present.
Yeah, which is?
I mean, that's the, that's thegoal, right?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Now you said you were you did some studying into it
and why it helps and that sortof thing.
Would you mind telling us alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
so, um, let me bring up uh, let's see here.
Uh, so we worked on.
Uh, let's see, so the science.
Uh, with toss, catch heel.
The movement activates thebilateral stimulation, sinking
both brain hemispheres, justlike in emdr and brain spotting
(18:27):
yeah, I didn't even think ofthat.
That's, that's great uh, ithelps regulate emotions by
keeping the body moving whilethe brain processes safely.
Uh, studies show motor learningboosts dopamine, as we just
talked about uh neuroplasticityin the b bdnf that's the brain's
(18:49):
fertilizer for growth andhealing.
Uh, it also reduces cortisol,our stress hormone.
Uh, physiology, uh,physiologically, uh, it enhances
balance proprioception.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Can I interrupt you real quick?
Yeah, the cortisol is superimportant.
That's something I talk about alot with my uh, with my
followers is cortisol is thestress hormone that gets
released when you're in thatfight or flight situation and
the only way to get out of it isto burn that energy.
That cortisol is the energythat's what's to get out of.
(19:25):
It is to burn that energy.
That cortisol is the energythat's what's creating that
sympathetic energy?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So it makes total sense that it would help Seems
probably help with that Rightand from a neuromuscular
therapist point of view, that'sgetting entrapped into your soft
tissues, your, your fascia,your muscles, your connective
tissues, all your ligaments andeverything it's yeah, and it
(19:49):
causes inflammation, causes downthe road, can cause autoimmune
disease, can cause all kinds ofjust wrecks, wreaks, havoc on
your body, to mention.
You know like they usually showthe belly fat and all that
stuff, right?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh yeah, who would have thought that juggling could
help you lose weight?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, exactly All right man.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Sorry for the interruption, I just needed to
point that out.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's okay.
So let's see.
Like I said, physiologically,proprioception calms the nervous
system through rhythmicbreathing and posture awareness.
We've kind of covered that.
Psychologically, we tap intoflow states and build
self-efficacy, which Bandurashowed is key to resilience,
(20:35):
right?
So what is a flow?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
state Kevin, so what?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
is a flow state, kevin.
A flow state is when you are sozoned into something that
you're not thinking about reallyanything else, right?
And it's just flowing naturallyto you in what's happening with
(21:02):
you.
And so I'm sure you're you'refamiliar with, uh, some of that
as well.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, so almost like an autonomic uh movement is what
you're kind of talking about,right, like it becomes like
second nature muscle memory, notright, exactly something you're
thinking about yeah, right, andso, uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
so we're not just juggling objects, we're juggling
energy, emotion and even traumain a structured, embodied way.
It really is medicine in motion.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, that's awesome, man man.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So first of all say somebody wants to try this out
or get in touch with you tolearn more.
How would they do that?
So they can go to my website.
It's coachhealthavenuescom withan S dot com.
Forward, slash, toss, catchheal, and each beginning word,
beginning letter, is a capital.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You said you had a Facebook group as well, right?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I have one.
I don't work much with it, butI can do something once because
I'm just really getting startedinto working with people, yeah,
and what I'm here is to bringthis to the masses and let them
decide if that's something thatthey want to get involved with.
(22:34):
So a good way for me to forpeople to get in, uh, get in
contact with me, is probably uh,Instagram, which is uh, my uh
name on Instagram is avenueshealth, so it's opposite.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Um, you know, from myperspective as a like a somatic
coach, trauma-informed somaticcoach, polyvagal theory,
informed you know some peoplemight look at this like this is
crazy.
Why would somebody try to dojuggling to recover from trauma
or being stuck in a traumaresponse?
But it ticks all the boxes froma somatic perspective, you know
(23:15):
it's.
You've got the movement inthere to discharge some of that
sympathetic energy.
It's pulling you into thepresent by forcing you to be
present, because you're doingsomething manually with your
hands and you have to useeye-hand-eye coordination, at
least until you learn it right,at least until it becomes second
nature.
So these are both like thevagal toning.
(23:37):
Like I was saying, the more timeyou can spend present, the more
you are toning that vagus nerve.
It's just like a muscle.
You got to work it out and themore you work out, you know a
lot of us who've been stuck intrauma responses for a lot of
our lives I just realized we'rejust staring at you.
A lot of us that have been Holdon one second I just lost my
(24:00):
screen A lot of us that havebeen stuck in a trauma response
for most of our lives.
That part of our nervous systemis really strong because it's
it's done it.
You know, that's where you'vebeen, that's the muscles you've
been using.
So doing something like thisthat forces you to use those
(24:21):
different mental muscles, itjust makes perfect sense from a
from a somatic standpoint.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Here's a little note about myself that I didn't
really share in the beginning.
When I was born, my the doctorstold my mom that I may never
walk or talk, and so just, I'vedone a whole lot more than walk
or talk.
Yeah, I mean, I've ridden onunicycles and I don't do that
(24:52):
anymore, but I have done it anduh, so I, I, I uh, do a lot of
um, I just so, in the beginningof my juggling career, I had
trouble spinning plates and so Ijust, um, bought myself a
spinning plate not too long ago,maybe, I'll say about a month
(25:16):
ago.
Yeah, and I, uh, I learned thespinning plate and just like
within I would say, three tofour days, uh, where I got it
down pretty decent, and I'vebeen improving ever since then,
but sure, so it was like boom,you know, and it was like wow,
(25:39):
that didn't really take thatlong at all, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Cool, uh cool, so yeah.
So what?
What is your ideal clientele?
I mean, who's, who is it thatyou're you're really reaching
out to to help?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
well, I'd like to start with some people from the
US, and the reason for that iswhat I do is I actually will uh
send, uh, I'll have shipped tothem uh equipment, uh that they
need to get started with andwhat kind of equipment is that?
uh, so it would be a set ofscarves just like this, okay,
(26:17):
and also a set of uh bean bagsthat will be custom embroidered
with their name on it.
Oh, very cool.
That's so that they kind ofknow that they have something
for themselves that nobody elsehas For them.
(26:38):
If they want to share it,that's fine, that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So what about type of person Like who's going to
benefit from this the most?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So someone that has, you know, been through some
grief, maybe narcissistic abuse,someone that's, uh, highly
anxious, um, really anybody'sjust having a hard time being
present, right?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
right dissociative disorders and right, depression,
uh.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Those are the main factors of uh that are in the
studies for uh juggling exposuretherapy and uh.
So those are probably the keyones that I would like to start
off with, but I'm actually opento others, such as adhd maybe.
Uh, you know some people withuh, some uh mild autism.
(27:36):
Um, you know some maybe alittle more functional but you
could just benefit fromtherapeutic movement.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
And uh.
So yeah, those would be the, uh, the top ones.
And then I have sort of anotherlayer where I kind of feel like
maybe down the line that I canstart doing, uh, some work with
people with, um, uh, parkinson'sMS, stuff like that more
(28:05):
neurological disorders exactlyyeah, that's all, because it
does help with neural pathwaysand absolutely yeah, and this is
really cool.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay cool anything else you need everybody to know,
or?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
oh, I want to just talk to the audience at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Sure, let me get you pinned up on screen so that my
mug doesn't get in your way.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm going to move my screen here, okay.
So I want to speak to anyonelistening who needs to hear this
right now.
You do not have to go back.
You don't have to go back intoyour trauma today.
(28:55):
You don't have to diveheadfirst into your shadow to
begin healing.
That work will come later andshould, but only after you have
enough calm and strength to holdit Toss, catch.
Heal is a tool.
It's a flashlight and a map.
(29:16):
It's a way to move you out ofcrisis mode first, so when
you're ready, you can begindeeper healing work with more
strength, clarity and calmness.
And for men especially, thiscan be your starting place.
I know how hard it can be tosit down and talk, but what if
(29:41):
the healing came through motionand talk?
But what if the healing camethrough motion?
What if taking action was thefirst therapy that finally
worked for you?
I have another little messagehere.
I want to share a personal story.
(30:01):
My GP doctor, who sadly passedaway last year, was a rare kind
of integrative osteopath.
He would geek out over thiskind of material.
He understood the mind-bodyconnection very deeply and
before he passed he actuallytold me I've always wanted to
(30:24):
learn to juggle.
I wish I could have taught him,but in some way, his curiosity
helped me fuel my mission.
This is for people like him too, the professionals like
yourself, and you know othertherapists coaches, different
kinds of therapists, physicaltherapists.
You know other therapists.
Coaches, different kinds oftherapists, physical therapists.
(30:46):
You know occupationaltherapists, recreational
therapists.
They would all benefit fromlearning this particular type of
method in order to help theirclients.
So yeah, clients.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So, uh, yeah, cool, well, well, thanks.
Uh, kevin, I really appreciateyou coming on this once again.
It's kevin halley.
Um throw, you want to do ademonstration?
Would that be something youcould do?
Just kind of show us whatyou're doing, yeah absolutely so
.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Uh, I want to uh just bring this up here.
So we'll do the scarf demo, notto show off, but to kind of
show how simple movements canunlock deep responses in the
nervous system.
Scarves are a great place tostart.
They slow things down, theyremove the fear down.
(31:47):
They slow things down, theyremove the fear.
They create an instant dopamineboost when you succeed, like we
talked about before.
That confidence builds fast andfrom there we add complexity,
just like we build capacity.
The scarves I use arecolor-coded for therapeutic
benefit, each chosenintentionally to support mental
(32:08):
and emotional healing Blue isfor calm and nervous system
regulation, green is for thegrowth and renewal, and purple
for spiritual clarity, emotionaltransformation and inner wisdom
.
And so, like I said, I havethese scarves here, I got that,
(32:31):
and so we'll put this here.
And so what we're going to dois we'll take the green one, and
what we want to do is we wantto kind of just stand, spread
our legs out at shoulder length,shoulder width, and do our
(32:54):
breathing in through the nose,out through the mouth, you know
the drill.
In through the nose, outthrough the mouth, you know the
drill.
And so now what we're going todo is, we're going to bring our
arm up and we want it straight,but we don't want it rigid, like
(33:14):
we were talking before.
We don't want it rigid andwe're going to bring it up from
our side and up and we're goingto flick our wrist up at the top
and we'll let it go.
And now, as we're doing that,we're tracking where the scarf
ends up and, like I said, thescarf, it slows things down, so
(33:38):
we don't have to worry about ithurting us or anybody, and it's
just slowing it down and we canwatch it.
It's, it's relaxing in itself.
Um, yeah, it really is.
So we just want to kind of keepdoing that for a few times,
because what we're doing iswe're actually training,
(33:59):
training our muscle memory forthis particular action, and this
is leading up to other parts ofthe training.
And we don't worry aboutdropping it.
Dropping is a very importantpart of the learning process and
(34:22):
it's also important to just letit go.
We're letting go of theperfection that a lot of people
hold within themselves oh, I gotto be perfect, I got to.
Oh, oh, I didn't catch it.
Oh, darn, what's going tohappen now?
And so we're just going to letit drop.
(34:43):
We're letting it drop, let theball drop.
You know, uh, we're letting theball drop.
Yeah, not a big deal life's,you know, um, the world's not
gonna end right, and so we'rejust gonna keep doing that.
And then, um, we can do that,maybe, let's say, five to ten
(35:05):
times, and then we can go, uh,and now we're gonna take a deep
breath again and, as we're, Iwant you to also check in on
yourself and see how you'refeeling during this process too.
Yeah, and how do you feelletting it drop?
(35:28):
How do you feel as you'restanding there doing this action
?
That's, that's really part ofmy program.
It's not just about thejuggling, it's really about
being present in the moment anddoing this exercise that's going
(35:50):
to help bring ourselves backfrom the edge.
I, like you know, I kind offeel like when I was going
through my turmoil and all thestuff that was going on, I was
heading towards the dark side ofthe force right, and I didn't
(36:14):
want to feel like so, and I feltlike I didn't want to go.
Darth Vader on it yeah sure.
And so I just decided, yeah,this needs to start changing.
So it's being present in themoment as we're doing this
(36:37):
exercise, so we can actuallybring it to the other side.
Look at it, don't worry aboutthe mechanics of it, just do it,
do the action, and uh,everything will uh come out just
how it needs to down the roadwhich is kind of like life right
absolutely.
(36:58):
I say that juggling is really ametaphor for life.
It really is.
There's so much that I'vereally picked up from juggling
and I'm getting a littleemotional about it because it
has really changed my life.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I would imagine, if it was thatpowerful for you, that it can
be that powerful for someoneelse too.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Absolutely, and that's why I felt like you know,
can I bring this to otherpeople and will they do this?
And so that's where I wanted toreally nail it down.
Where's the science of it?
How is it going to benefitpeople in the long run, and
who's it going to benefit aswell?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, and in a world filled with energy work and
crystals and planet alignmentsand woo-woo stuff, stuff, this
is something that is grounded inscience.
It right, it checks all theboxes.
Yeah I love it man cool, Iordered scarves.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
They just didn't get here in time oh, your scarf
didn't get here in time yeah,that's okay, they'll get here
exactly, yeah, I'm gonna try itout, do you so?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
is there a um?
Do you post like exercises onyour facebook page, or how do
you get this stuff out to people?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
so, uh, I've only really gotten started.
I want to start doing something, uh, a little bit more.
I'd really like to kind of do aone-on-one coaching with people
, uh online.
So, like I said, I uh when Iworked with stan, uh, my friend,
he um, we, we went back andforth.
Uh, I'd probably prefer doingmore of a live thing, um, but I
(38:53):
can do like a more of acorrespondence type uh, uh thing
as well uh, that's would saywhere this is going to benefit
someone where I'm talkingone-on-one with them, even
online, and so because then Ican kind of see, make little
(39:16):
suggestions for corrections orwhatever needs to happen.
Yeah, so they can find me onInstagram.
I'm obviously also on Facebook.
They can find me through KevinHowie.
There's a.
I have a my little icon for youknow.
(39:42):
My picture actually says andlet's see how does it go Find
joy in your journey.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, and if you can give me, get me links to your
different social accounts andyour, if you have a website or
anything like that, I'll includethem in the show notes so that
people can find it a littleeasier or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I'll include them in the show notes so that people
can find it a little easier.
I'll start probably trying topost a few more things that
might be able to give a fewlittle more hints to what they
can do for themselves.
The juggling is just one littlepart of it, because I'm a
(40:26):
neuromuscular therapist at youknow, um uh, with my knowledge
of it, I'm not.
I'm not actually uh licensed asa massage therapist now, but I
can now uh definitely give uhsome tips of self-care.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Sure, Um yeah, self-care is incredibly
important too right so I canteach that.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I know uh, you know, a variety of different uh
corrective exercises, from umactive, isolated stretching to
um, also a few qigong motions,and so just bringing that all
together in an intuitive sense.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
And where are you located?
What's that?
Where are you located?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm in Michigan, southeast Michigan, between Ann
Arbor and Detroit.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Gotcha, okay, cool.
Well, thanks so much for comingon, kevin.
I really appreciate it.
I'll get those things sharedfor you If you can give them
over to me.
We'll make sure that everybodycan get in touch with you, and I
mean I'd love to have you backon on maybe a Facebook live or
something where we can do a demowith some people.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Absolutely, I'd love to have you back on on maybe a
Facebook Live or something wherewe can do a demo with some
people.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Absolutely, absolutely, I'd love to do that
Cool Well, thanks so much forjoining us, man.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Thanks for having me.
Hey Kevin, Thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, yeah.
So, excuse me.
So, just so everybody knows whoyou are, do you mind?
Just giving us a quickintroduction at the age of 17
and became a professional clownby age 18.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A clown.
In many ways is kind of like apsychologist with a red nose.
Okay, we learn how to connectwith our audience read emotion,
respond with presence and, justyou know, caring individuals
(00:54):
overall.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I would imagine having to connect at that level
with so many people probablymakes you pretty empathetic or
means you need to be prettyempathetic.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Right, right, and knowing you, you know who and
when to approach.
Yeah, uh, you know, uh, withall of the scary movies and such
of that, and you know, uh, youjust have to be aware gotcha go
ahead, nope, okay, so, um, uh,yeah, so uh, what, uh?
(01:32):
What I didn't know back thenwas that juggling would
eventually become a way out, wayout of darkness.
I often say I used the force,the force of gravity, to juggle
my way out of grief, anxiety,you know, maybe a little bit of
depression, and I need a way of.
(02:02):
You know, if juggling workedback then, where I was able to
develop my body and mind, maybethis can happen again.
Sure, that makes sense developthe toss.
(02:23):
So, you toss one apple, thenanother, and then another, and
then until it becomes motion,becomes medicine.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, I would imagine it really brings a sense of
presence too.
You can't be off in la-la landand juggling apples.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Right, right, exactly .
You have to be present in whereyou're at and you know how your
uh, uh, your posture andeverything.
So, uh, you're breathing andyou have to be really at one
with your objects, otherwiseyou're going to mess up.
Sure, and um, so and so, but itdidn't happen overnight.
(03:04):
You know, it took a while.
You know, so many years later,after I learned how to juggle
and I was dealing with my griefand everything and all the
turmoil that I was going through, I discovered that juggling was
(03:26):
more than a skill.
It was a healing art.
(03:50):
And over the next three years,or the past three years from
this point, I developed TossCatch Heal, a somatic, rhythmic
and therapeutic method thatblends play, pattern and
presence.
Okay, and I want to emphasizethe play.
Uh, we're not doing uh repshere.
This, this isn't physicaltherapy with the clipboard,
right?
Uh, this is uh, uh, you know,play a purpose, healing through
movement.
That feels good.
Yeah, if for anyone whostruggles to sit, still doesn't
(04:13):
feel safe talking or just needsa way to reconnect with their
body and nervous system throughaction, sure, nervous system
through action.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Sure, sure, I would imagine.
Yeah too, if you were stuck inlike a fight, flight type trauma
response and that energy hasgot to get out of your body.
You got to get it out somehow.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's usually light exercise or movement is what we,
as somatic coaches, tell peopleto try to help get rid of some
of that energy and some of thatcharge, to help help heal that
and so, uh, one thing that I uhdidn't mention was that, uh,
after I became, uh, after I didclowning for about 10 years, I
(04:53):
became a neuromuscular massagetherapist, and uh, so that, uh,
I've been connected with healthbasically my whole life, like
the natural forms of health, andso I wanted to kind of learn
about the human body for myself,for my own sake, as well as
(05:15):
others, you know, helping otherpeople.
Sure, those two connectionstogether really, you know, while
I was in school I was able tomassage school, I was able to
use juggling to learn how learnthe different, say, the joint
(05:36):
movements, how the differentjoints move Right, and so,
mechanics of the body.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Basically right.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Exactly, Exactly the mechanics of.
And so, coming back more intothe present, you know it's a.
It brings awareness to yourposture.
If you're slumped or rigid,your juggling will reflect that
(06:06):
it's going to be sloppy.
But that's okay at first, right, You're just practicing, You're
trying to learn it and you knowthings happen when you're in an
emotional and mental slump.
You're going to slump over fora while.
Sure, that's just how the bodyworks, right, and so we're going
(06:30):
to.
But eventually you're going towant to be successful with the
juggling, so the body is goingto naturally bring itself into a
more proper position in orderto relax and be able to do the
motion of juggling.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, for sure, and posture can be greatly affected
by the type of trauma responseyou can be in.
For example, like in a freezeresponse, you might slump and
pull your body in and have thatreally slumpy kind of posture
like you're talking about, andthen, as that you move up
through that nervous system,become more safe and present.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
you're automatically going to open up a little bit in
the chest and straight out as amt uh, neuromuscular therapy
therapist um, in my office whatI did was I I would take
pictures of people's posture toshow them exactly what was going
on with their posture, andsometimes they would be leaning
(07:33):
this way, sometimes this way orthat way and a bunch of
different ways, and it canreally affect the person's
mental and emotional state aswell.
So it goes both ways.
You know the the injury or the,the injury to the nervous
(07:54):
system, will affect your moodand vice versa.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, I mean by the feedback loop between your body
and your brain, right?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Right, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I mean by the feedbackloop between your body and your
brain right Right.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, can you tell me about any, any success stories you've had
, maybe just your own, withjuggling and kind of how?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
it helps, aside from my own.
I once I started working withmyself, I I kind of figured,
well, I, I need to find somebody.
And so what I did was I uhactually went to a physical
therapist, uh, uh, place aclinic, and but it wasn't really
(08:41):
up their alley.
So I moved on and I said, okay,well, I need to really buckle
down here and start to do moreresearch to figure out, okay,
where is this going?
Exactly Because I didn't haveall my ducks in a row at that
(09:02):
point, exactly because I didn'thave all my ducks in a row at
that point.
And so I eventually I met afriend of mine now We've
developed a friendship.
But this man came on to a cloneFacebook group and he said he
(09:26):
was looking to become a clown.
And I said you're already aclown, you just haven't had the
proper training yet.
And he just really grabbed onto that and I told him what I do
and what I could probably helphim do, and I told him about the
juggling.
And it turns out that he was aCPA, and we all know how CPAs
(09:53):
are stressed out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Especially during tax season.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Absolutely, and so we were figuring out okay, well,
this is how we can work this out.
We weren't quite sure at thetime, but we worked it out to
where we would do like an onlinecorrespondence where I sent him
(10:19):
videos and he would send mevideos back on his progress, and
he did very well.
Um, he's still working at ittoday because he doesn't uh,
maybe he practiced every singleday, but, uh, he does it often
enough and he's working on itand he's gotten uh better at it
(10:42):
and I think it has helped himwith his you know stress levels
in his job, and so I think thatwas a pretty good success.
Um, and sorry, my screen wentout um, so my uh, so I felt that
(11:05):
was a pretty good success overuh, probably I've I'm still
working with him today, but notas much on the juggling part.
Uh, he's kind of working on hisown for the most part.
He's gotten the basics down,yeah, and every so often I'll
interject and give them somepointers, um, but, um, we're
(11:27):
working on some other uh factors.
That's another story foranother time.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Uh, can you tell us a little bit about what led you
to doing that?
I mean, obviously you hadalready had some experience
clowning, juggling and all ofthis stuff as a kid, so it was
already a skill that you had.
But what made you make theconnection between?
Well, first of all, what wasthe trauma that you went through
?
So, and then, how did you makethe connection to juggling with
that trauma?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So in the in 2017, I had lost my sister.
Uh, the two in 2017, I had lostmy sister.
Okay, and then, uh, in 19, Ilost my uh dad.
And then, in uh 2020, I lost mymom.
And then, uh, I was dealingwith uh basically having to sell
(12:17):
my house, which I didn't reallywant to do.
Um, yeah, it sounds likeeverything kind of fell apart on
you.
Yeah, it was falling apart onme and, uh, I didn't like I said
, I didn't really.
I felt like I was losing somecontrol over what was going on,
and so I felt, okay, well, um, Ineed to feel like I have a
(12:39):
little bit of control, a littlebit of more confidence in myself
.
Bring that back.
And so I decided I practiced alittle bit during the winter,
but where I was located at thattime, I was renting in someone's
home and the ceiling was verylow, so I couldn't really juggle
(13:04):
clubs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Sure, you know, indoors no flaming bowling ball
pins, huh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
And so during the spring, itwas nice out.
I said, okay, I'm going outsideto see how this works and see
if this brings back something.
And so I started doing someclub juggling and some other
(13:32):
props, you know, juggling thethree apples I have beanbags
that look like apples, sure andso I was doing the club juggling
.
I was doing different tricksthat I never tried before.
I wanted to see how well Icould do this and where where it
(13:54):
will take me, and so I said, ok, I'm, I'm pushing forward, I'm
trying new stuff, I'm pushingforward, I'm trying new stuff.
And, lo and behold, I had a fewsuccesses.
They weren't huge successes,they were a little bit success,
(14:15):
but it felt big.
And that's the key point.
Right, there is that it feltbig, and that was where the
dopamine rush came, sure.
And so, uh, that just feltreally good, and so I kept doing
it, and so that was the reward,uh, center of the brain, right,
and uh.
(14:37):
So I decided, uh, okay, I'm, I'mgonna, and it's sort of like a
video game.
You know, you land a differentlevel of you know within the
game and you get that reward ofthe dopamine rush.
And so now I'm trying to do itmore and more and more, and it's
(14:59):
feeling good and you're feelingbetter about yourself, you're
feeling confident.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm doing itright, and so, uh, then the next
step was, um, I was stilldealing with some, uh,
rumination of my thoughts, ofwhat had gone on, still, and so
(15:21):
I just kept practicing and Inoticed that when I was actually
doing the juggling, I was notthinking about all my past
issues, I was thinking about thejuggling.
I was being centered, I wasbeing grounded in the present
(15:41):
moment.
I was being centered, I wasbeing grounded in the present
moment.
And so that was the next step.
I noticed that rumination wasquietly shifting away, and it
wasn't gone completely, but itwas just being shifted and being
put on pause for a while.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, are you familiar with polyvagal theory?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I believe, so A little bit of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So basically it's.
It's the concept that yournervous system is like a ladder.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
And up here you're connected.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right, you're in your right, all up, you're in your
safe connected space.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
This is where you're at when you're juggling Right.
Right Down here is your freezestate.
This is where you're at whenyou're sitting on the couch and
can't get up Right.
And then right here is yourfight or flight.
This is where you're fightingor running away, and the idea is
to get any from anywhere onthis ladder back to here takes
mobilizing energy, which can befeel really uncomfortable.
(16:47):
You know, when you're, whenyou're in that frozen state and
you can't, there is no safety,right, right.
What I love about this is it'sit's creating safety because
you're present.
You have to be present in orderto juggle.
You know you're not gonna bemuch of a juggler if you're
thinking about other stuff whenyou're trying to do it, so it
(17:09):
forces you to be present.
And it's also movement.
So it's it's toning your vagal,your vagal nerve right, your
ventral vagal nerve, while alsomobilizing energy and help to
process some of that stuckenergy.
I love it, man.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
It's cool and it's play, and so when you're playing
you're not really thinkingabout all your troubles.
You're playing and yeah, and sothat play gives you that safe
space to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, to be authentic and be present.
Yeah, which is?
I mean, that's the, that's thegoal, right?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Now you said you were you did some studying into it
and why it helps and that sortof thing.
Would you mind telling us alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
so, um, let me bring up uh, let's see here.
Uh, so we worked on.
Uh, let's see, so the science.
Uh, with toss, catch heel.
The movement activates thebilateral stimulation, sinking
both brain hemispheres, justlike in emdr and brain spotting
(18:27):
yeah, I didn't even think ofthat.
That's, that's great uh, ithelps regulate emotions by
keeping the body moving whilethe brain processes safely.
Uh, studies show motor learningboosts dopamine, as we just
talked about uh neuroplasticityin the b bdnf that's the brain's
(18:49):
fertilizer for growth andhealing.
Uh, it also reduces cortisol,our stress hormone.
Uh, physiology, uh,physiologically, uh, it enhances
balance proprioception.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Can I interrupt you real quick?
Yeah, the cortisol is superimportant.
That's something I talk about alot with my uh, with my
followers is cortisol is thestress hormone that gets
released when you're in thatfight or flight situation and
the only way to get out of it isto burn that energy.
That cortisol is the energythat's what's to get out of.
(19:25):
It is to burn that energy.
That cortisol is the energythat's what's creating that
sympathetic energy?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So it makes total sense that it would help Seems
probably help with that Rightand from a neuromuscular
therapist point of view, that'sgetting entrapped into your soft
tissues, your, your fascia,your muscles, your connective
tissues, all your ligaments andeverything it's yeah, and it
(19:49):
causes inflammation, causes downthe road, can cause autoimmune
disease, can cause all kinds ofjust wrecks, wreaks, havoc on
your body, to mention.
You know like they usually showthe belly fat and all that
stuff, right?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh yeah, who would have thought that juggling could
help you lose weight?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, exactly All right man.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Sorry for the interruption, I just needed to
point that out.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's okay.
So let's see.
Like I said, physiologically,proprioception calms the nervous
system through rhythmicbreathing and posture awareness.
We've kind of covered that.
Psychologically, we tap intoflow states and build
self-efficacy, which Bandurashowed is key to resilience,
(20:35):
right?
So what is a flow?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
state Kevin, so what?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
is a flow state, kevin.
A flow state is when you are sozoned into something that
you're not thinking about reallyanything else, right?
And it's just flowing naturallyto you in what's happening with
(21:02):
you.
And so I'm sure you're you'refamiliar with, uh, some of that
as well.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, so almost like an autonomic uh movement is what
you're kind of talking about,right, like it becomes like
second nature muscle memory, notright, exactly something you're
thinking about yeah, right, andso, uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
so we're not just juggling objects, we're juggling
energy, emotion and even traumain a structured, embodied way.
It really is medicine in motion.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, that's awesome, man man.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So first of all say somebody wants to try this out
or get in touch with you tolearn more.
How would they do that?
So they can go to my website.
It's coachhealthavenuescom withan S dot com.
Forward, slash, toss, catchheal, and each beginning word,
beginning letter, is a capital.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You said you had a Facebook group as well, right?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I have one.
I don't work much with it, butI can do something once because
I'm just really getting startedinto working with people, yeah,
and what I'm here is to bringthis to the masses and let them
decide if that's something thatthey want to get involved with.
(22:34):
So a good way for me to forpeople to get in, uh, get in
contact with me, is probably uh,Instagram, which is uh, my uh
name on Instagram is avenueshealth, so it's opposite.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Um, you know, from myperspective as a like a somatic
coach, trauma-informed somaticcoach, polyvagal theory,
informed you know some peoplemight look at this like this is
crazy.
Why would somebody try to dojuggling to recover from trauma
or being stuck in a traumaresponse?
But it ticks all the boxes froma somatic perspective, you know
(23:15):
it's.
You've got the movement inthere to discharge some of that
sympathetic energy.
It's pulling you into thepresent by forcing you to be
present, because you're doingsomething manually with your
hands and you have to useeye-hand-eye coordination, at
least until you learn it right,at least until it becomes second
nature.
So these are both like thevagal toning.
(23:37):
Like I was saying, the more timeyou can spend present, the more
you are toning that vagus nerve.
It's just like a muscle.
You got to work it out and themore you work out, you know a
lot of us who've been stuck intrauma responses for a lot of
our lives I just realized we'rejust staring at you.
A lot of us that have been Holdon one second I just lost my
(24:00):
screen A lot of us that havebeen stuck in a trauma response
for most of our lives.
That part of our nervous systemis really strong because it's
it's done it.
You know, that's where you'vebeen, that's the muscles you've
been using.
So doing something like thisthat forces you to use those
(24:21):
different mental muscles, itjust makes perfect sense from a
from a somatic standpoint.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Here's a little note about myself that I didn't
really share in the beginning.
When I was born, my the doctorstold my mom that I may never
walk or talk, and so just, I'vedone a whole lot more than walk
or talk.
Yeah, I mean, I've ridden onunicycles and I don't do that
(24:52):
anymore, but I have done it anduh, so I, I, I uh, do a lot of
um, I just so, in the beginningof my juggling career, I had
trouble spinning plates and so Ijust, um, bought myself a
spinning plate not too long ago,maybe, I'll say about a month
(25:16):
ago.
Yeah, and I, uh, I learned thespinning plate and just like
within I would say, three tofour days, uh, where I got it
down pretty decent, and I'vebeen improving ever since then,
but sure, so it was like boom,you know, and it was like wow,
(25:39):
that didn't really take thatlong at all, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Cool, uh cool, so yeah.
So what?
What is your ideal clientele?
I mean, who's, who is it thatyou're you're really reaching
out to to help?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
well, I'd like to start with some people from the
US, and the reason for that iswhat I do is I actually will uh
send, uh, I'll have shipped tothem uh equipment, uh that they
need to get started with andwhat kind of equipment is that?
uh, so it would be a set ofscarves just like this, okay,
(26:17):
and also a set of uh bean bagsthat will be custom embroidered
with their name on it.
Oh, very cool.
That's so that they kind ofknow that they have something
for themselves that nobody elsehas For them.
(26:38):
If they want to share it,that's fine, that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So what about type of person Like who's going to
benefit from this the most?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So someone that has, you know, been through some
grief, maybe narcissistic abuse,someone that's, uh, highly
anxious, um, really anybody'sjust having a hard time being
present, right?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
right dissociative disorders and right, depression,
uh.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Those are the main factors of uh that are in the
studies for uh juggling exposuretherapy and uh.
So those are probably the keyones that I would like to start
off with, but I'm actually opento others, such as adhd maybe.
Uh, you know some people withuh, some uh mild autism.
(27:36):
Um, you know some maybe alittle more functional but you
could just benefit fromtherapeutic movement.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
And uh.
So yeah, those would be the, uh, the top ones.
And then I have sort of anotherlayer where I kind of feel like
maybe down the line that I canstart doing, uh, some work with
people with, um, uh, parkinson'sMS, stuff like that more
(28:05):
neurological disorders exactlyyeah, that's all, because it
does help with neural pathwaysand absolutely yeah, and this is
really cool.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay cool anything else you need everybody to know,
or?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
oh, I want to just talk to the audience at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Sure, let me get you pinned up on screen so that my
mug doesn't get in your way.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm going to move my screen here, okay.
So I want to speak to anyonelistening who needs to hear this
right now.
You do not have to go back.
You don't have to go back intoyour trauma today.
(28:55):
You don't have to diveheadfirst into your shadow to
begin healing.
That work will come later andshould, but only after you have
enough calm and strength to holdit Toss, catch.
Heal is a tool.
It's a flashlight and a map.
(29:16):
It's a way to move you out ofcrisis mode first, so when
you're ready, you can begindeeper healing work with more
strength, clarity and calmness.
And for men especially, thiscan be your starting place.
I know how hard it can be tosit down and talk, but what if
(29:41):
the healing came through motionand talk?
But what if the healing camethrough motion?
What if taking action was thefirst therapy that finally
worked for you?
I have another little messagehere.
I want to share a personal story.
(30:01):
My GP doctor, who sadly passedaway last year, was a rare kind
of integrative osteopath.
He would geek out over thiskind of material.
He understood the mind-bodyconnection very deeply and
before he passed he actuallytold me I've always wanted to
(30:24):
learn to juggle.
I wish I could have taught him,but in some way, his curiosity
helped me fuel my mission.
This is for people like him too, the professionals like
yourself, and you know othertherapists coaches, different
kinds of therapists, physicaltherapists.
You know other therapists.
Coaches, different kinds oftherapists, physical therapists.
(30:46):
You know occupationaltherapists, recreational
therapists.
They would all benefit fromlearning this particular type of
method in order to help theirclients.
So yeah, clients.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So, uh, yeah, cool, well, well, thanks.
Uh, kevin, I really appreciateyou coming on this once again.
It's kevin halley.
Um throw, you want to do ademonstration?
Would that be something youcould do?
Just kind of show us whatyou're doing, yeah absolutely so
.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Uh, I want to uh just bring this up here.
So we'll do the scarf demo, notto show off, but to kind of
show how simple movements canunlock deep responses in the
nervous system.
Scarves are a great place tostart.
They slow things down, theyremove the fear down.
(31:47):
They slow things down, theyremove the fear.
They create an instant dopamineboost when you succeed, like we
talked about before.
That confidence builds fast andfrom there we add complexity,
just like we build capacity.
The scarves I use arecolor-coded for therapeutic
benefit, each chosenintentionally to support mental
(32:08):
and emotional healing Blue isfor calm and nervous system
regulation, green is for thegrowth and renewal, and purple
for spiritual clarity, emotionaltransformation and inner wisdom
.
And so, like I said, I havethese scarves here, I got that,
(32:31):
and so we'll put this here.
And so what we're going to dois we'll take the green one, and
what we want to do is we wantto kind of just stand, spread
our legs out at shoulder length,shoulder width, and do our
(32:54):
breathing in through the nose,out through the mouth, you know
the drill.
In through the nose, outthrough the mouth, you know the
drill.
And so now what we're going todo is, we're going to bring our
arm up and we want it straight,but we don't want it rigid, like
(33:14):
we were talking before.
We don't want it rigid andwe're going to bring it up from
our side and up and we're goingto flick our wrist up at the top
and we'll let it go.
And now, as we're doing that,we're tracking where the scarf
ends up and, like I said, thescarf, it slows things down, so
(33:38):
we don't have to worry about ithurting us or anybody, and it's
just slowing it down and we canwatch it.
It's, it's relaxing in itself.
Um, yeah, it really is.
So we just want to kind of keepdoing that for a few times,
because what we're doing iswe're actually training,
(33:59):
training our muscle memory forthis particular action, and this
is leading up to other parts ofthe training.
And we don't worry aboutdropping it.
Dropping is a very importantpart of the learning process and
(34:22):
it's also important to just letit go.
We're letting go of theperfection that a lot of people
hold within themselves oh, I gotto be perfect, I got to.
Oh, oh, I didn't catch it.
Oh, darn, what's going tohappen now?
And so we're just going to letit drop.
(34:43):
We're letting it drop, let theball drop.
You know, uh, we're letting theball drop.
Yeah, not a big deal life's,you know, um, the world's not
gonna end right, and so we'rejust gonna keep doing that.
And then, um, we can do that,maybe, let's say, five to ten
(35:05):
times, and then we can go, uh,and now we're gonna take a deep
breath again and, as we're, Iwant you to also check in on
yourself and see how you'refeeling during this process too.
Yeah, and how do you feelletting it drop?
(35:28):
How do you feel as you'restanding there doing this action
?
That's, that's really part ofmy program.
It's not just about thejuggling, it's really about
being present in the moment anddoing this exercise that's going
(35:50):
to help bring ourselves backfrom the edge.
I, like you know, I kind offeel like when I was going
through my turmoil and all thestuff that was going on, I was
heading towards the dark side ofthe force right, and I didn't
(36:14):
want to feel like so, and I feltlike I didn't want to go.
Darth Vader on it yeah sure.
And so I just decided, yeah,this needs to start changing.
So it's being present in themoment as we're doing this
(36:37):
exercise, so we can actuallybring it to the other side.
Look at it, don't worry aboutthe mechanics of it, just do it,
do the action, and uh,everything will uh come out just
how it needs to down the roadwhich is kind of like life right
absolutely.
(36:58):
I say that juggling is really ametaphor for life.
It really is.
There's so much that I'vereally picked up from juggling
and I'm getting a littleemotional about it because it
has really changed my life.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I would imagine, if it was thatpowerful for you, that it can
be that powerful for someoneelse too.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Absolutely, and that's why I felt like you know,
can I bring this to otherpeople and will they do this?
And so that's where I wanted toreally nail it down.
Where's the science of it?
How is it going to benefitpeople in the long run, and
who's it going to benefit aswell?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, and in a world filled with energy work and
crystals and planet alignmentsand woo-woo stuff, stuff, this
is something that is grounded inscience.
It right, it checks all theboxes.
Yeah I love it man cool, Iordered scarves.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
They just didn't get here in time oh, your scarf
didn't get here in time yeah,that's okay, they'll get here
exactly, yeah, I'm gonna try itout, do you so?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
is there a um?
Do you post like exercises onyour facebook page, or how do
you get this stuff out to people?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
so, uh, I've only really gotten started.
I want to start doing something, uh, a little bit more.
I'd really like to kind of do aone-on-one coaching with people
, uh online.
So, like I said, I uh when Iworked with stan, uh, my friend,
he um, we, we went back andforth.
Uh, I'd probably prefer doingmore of a live thing, um, but I
(38:53):
can do like a more of acorrespondence type uh, uh thing
as well uh, that's would saywhere this is going to benefit
someone where I'm talkingone-on-one with them, even
online, and so because then Ican kind of see, make little
(39:16):
suggestions for corrections orwhatever needs to happen.
Yeah, so they can find me onInstagram.
I'm obviously also on Facebook.
They can find me through KevinHowie.
There's a.
I have a my little icon for youknow.
(39:42):
My picture actually says andlet's see how does it go Find
joy in your journey.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, and if you can give me, get me links to your
different social accounts andyour, if you have a website or
anything like that, I'll includethem in the show notes so that
people can find it a littleeasier or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I'll include them in the show notes so that people
can find it a little easier.
I'll start probably trying topost a few more things that
might be able to give a fewlittle more hints to what they
can do for themselves.
The juggling is just one littlepart of it, because I'm a
(40:26):
neuromuscular therapist at youknow, um uh, with my knowledge
of it, I'm not.
I'm not actually uh licensed asa massage therapist now, but I
can now uh definitely give uhsome tips of self-care.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Sure, Um yeah, self-care is incredibly
important too right so I canteach that.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I know uh, you know, a variety of different uh
corrective exercises, from umactive, isolated stretching to
um, also a few qigong motions,and so just bringing that all
together in an intuitive sense.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
And where are you located?
What's that?
Where are you located?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm in Michigan, southeast Michigan, between Ann
Arbor and Detroit.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Gotcha, okay, cool.
Well, thanks so much for comingon, kevin.
I really appreciate it.
I'll get those things sharedfor you If you can give them
over to me.
We'll make sure that everybodycan get in touch with you, and I
mean I'd love to have you backon on maybe a Facebook live or
something where we can do a demowith some people.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Absolutely, I'd love to have you back on on maybe a
Facebook Live or something wherewe can do a demo with some
people.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Absolutely, absolutely, I'd love to do that
Cool Well, thanks so much forjoining us, man.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Thanks for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!