March 28, 2024 • 38 mins
Tune in to the latest episode of Tulsa Talks Business podcast! Join hosts Cassie and Oscar Pound as they chat with Nathan Sweats, the mastermind behind Anthem Pools, Homes, and Construction in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Discover the secrets behind Anthem's growth and its transition into the commercial realm. Nathan shares his entrepreneurial journey, offering insights on staying passionate and relevant in today's fast-paced world. Don't miss out on valuable advice for overcoming the challenges of business ownership. Listen now for an inspiring conversation on success, perseverance, and the pursuit of excellence!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
On today's episode, we have Nathan Sweats, owner of Anthem Pools,
Homes, and Construction in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
So, we met you. How did we meet you?
I can't remember. I think there's actually a story of trauma we shouldn't talk about.
(00:20):
We previously built a pool with someone. You knew someone.
Maybe it was just Facebook, social media. No, I think we first originally met,
I called you guys to do an install and a custom build for me in Sepulpa.
Yes. You guys did that.
And then I had a remodel customer that was good friends with you, Laura Gibson.
(00:41):
Yes. She was our son's teacher, Ms. Gibson. Oh, yeah. She was our son's teacher. She shot out Ms. Gibson.
She made sure the twins and they all graduated.
And cool. Yeah. Yeah, and then through that, and then we built our house.
You came and looked at our pool.
And so, yeah, all kinds of stuff. But then I think at one point,
(01:02):
the pool that we had built previously, you had talked to us about some concrete
covering or something. Came out to look at it. Softcrete. Yeah.
Cool. So how long have you been in business?
So Anthem has been in business since 2019. 2019, I've been in the construction
industry pretty much since I was 16 years old.
(01:24):
But Anthem here in Tulsa, we've been in business since 2019.
So we originally started as Anthem Construction and evolved into Anthem Pools,
Anthem Homes, and now we own Softcrete, another company as well.
So since 2019, we've been pretty heavy in the presence in the market.
So I know we were talking a little bit before we really went live,
(01:47):
But you are transitioning not so much into residential and less residential, more commercial now?
Yeah, we're trying to focus our sales efforts into more commercial space, yeah. So why?
Yeah, that's a good question. I guess I'm a glutton for punishments in short.
I feel for the company as a general contractor,
(02:10):
I feel, and there's probably contractors that would disagree with this,
but it's probably kind of the next evolution as a general contractor going into
the commercial space and high level.
It really makes sense because we could have one to two commercial jobs replace
the total gross revenue of, let's say, five to eight residential jobs.
(02:34):
So, it's not necessarily we're looking to replace all of our work and go strictly
commercial, but we're just more actively targeting commercial work.
I can imagine, and Oscar probably knows this, on a general contractor perspective,
maybe it is the better play.
But on the subcontractor, it's definitely not normally.
(02:55):
Yeah, as a sub, you have to have a definite niche for it. As a general contractor,
if you know what you're doing and you're able to mitigate through all of the
legalities, that's a lot of words there.
Yeah. But if you're able to do that and do it efficiently, then I feel like
you probably could have a good niche there. Let me ask you a question that's a little bit different.
(03:19):
So what's your why for why you do what you do? That's a good one. Very good question.
My family, my time, freedom, my family. Are you free of your time, though?
No, I'm not. LOL. So, running a business doesn't make you just,
you know, you're not on vacation all the time? No, no.
Not at all. That's so funny. So, that's the idea. That was the idea.
(03:41):
So, what's the motivation?
Yeah, that's what I'm asking about your why. You know, what's your motivation
in life that keeps you passionate or striving to be better at what you do? Right.
So, I've pretty much been an entrepreneur since I was 11 years old.
I started selling candy bars.
That was my first hustle. So it's kind of in my DNA and my wife started Anthem
(04:02):
Realty. They're actually having a meeting right now upstairs.
So we're kind of just a household of entrepreneurs.
So call us crazy, but that's just kind of in our DNA.
And so we, we really enjoy innovation, dreaming, visioning, forecasting. The chase.
Yeah. I think it's a lot of it. A lot of us are like, it's the chase,
(04:24):
right? We think we're searching for freedom.
We never get the freedom, though.
I mean, you don't. Even right now, we have 10 or 11 managers inside the company now, right?
And I'm probably lying. Maybe nine. I think 11 counts me in Oscar.
Different managers inside the company. And there should be a level of freedom,
(04:46):
but there's not because there's still the liability.
And there's still the ownership. And so we, none of that ever leaves,
you know, we're on, we go on vacation and we still work.
Yeah. And so I don't, I felt like for a long time, it was like an irrational
perspective that people had gotten of what that looks like.
(05:06):
And so again, yes, we get to make our own schedule. We get to choose which 20 hours a day we work.
I think that's it. That's the freedom to what hours in like,
am I going to go to sleep at 10 or 12 tonight?
There you go. So am I getting up at four? I say that's the correct answer in
starting your own company, or at least for me, is to having the flexibility.
(05:29):
And I will honestly say that I don't feel personally, and maybe there's a lot
of business owners that feel the same way, that really don't have that much time freedom.
And that's why I say we aspire to, in our family, in our houses,
to have the freedom to, if I want to go take two days off and I'm not having
(05:51):
to clock out and request PTO.
That's the freedom that you get to choose that, but you might still take it
with you. Right. Exactly.
You know, for a long time, general contractors, I mean, you know,
it's not even general contractors. It's all of us, right? right?
Subs in general, where I've always been having to fight this fight of proving
that we are who we say we are, and we're not going to run with your money,
(06:12):
and we're not going to not do what we say we're going to do,
because there's a lot of horror stories, especially in Tulsa,
and probably still everywhere, right?
I actually have a friend that's becoming a GC in California,
and she was telling, she had posted on Facebook, and she had to stop at the
courthouse to get fingerprinted.
And I was like, what in the world? And she said, because in California,
(06:32):
to become any type of contractor, you have to be fingerprinted so they can come after you.
And I'm like, man, we should do that in Tulsa. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we need that.
How do you feel, has that hindered your growth? Have you come up with that? A lot of like people...
You know, you're going out to a bid and you have a hard time overcoming some
of that sometimes. Or is it, do you feel like your experience?
(06:56):
I would, I would say the general marketplace, and I believe a lot of our customers are similar, right?
So you guys do a lot more of the residential homeowners and stuff as I do.
I think the general trepidation for most homeowners is scared.
And someone told them that, you know, we required a large money down and never came back.
(07:17):
And we've been in positions just last year where, you know, homeowners have
given contractors a lot of money to get stuff done and, and vanished and,
and we had to come in to finish.
So, so yeah, the, the general, I believe the general marketplace,
the public has a great fear of that.
And I think all you can do is speak on your personal track record of,
(07:40):
you know, some validation that we have as a company, HBA members,
Better Business Bureau, you know, the kind of accolades and affiliations that
we have to kind of set us apart.
But really, at the end of the day, it's, you know, people are making a decision
like, hey, I feel like I trust these people in this company.
Kind of winning that trust with your customer, you know, basically.
And your track record of past customers definitely helps with that.
(08:04):
And, you know, someone asked us that question not long ago, and I feel like now in 2024.
And maybe it's because of our size now that we don't have to deal with that
quite as often, because I think that you can quickly Google and see who we are
and that we're trustworthy. worthy.
I definitely think in the early years, that was something that we fought a lot,
(08:29):
not just to prove that we were different than what everyone else was and that
we're different than maybe the past company that's been here.
And for us, like specifically, we, when marketing, we were talking about marketing
before we went live, like we don't market certain things.
So for example, we never talk about poop or butt crack plumbers.
(08:50):
Okay. Because that is narrative that was created by someone else that doesn't
portray what plumbing is or who our people are, right?
And so for a long time, so many of our competitors, your competitors,
have created their own problems that we've had to overcome because they created
a narrative that wasn't true. Yeah, trouble is the wrong thing.
(09:13):
And it's just like, when you show up, that's why our trucks all all look brand new, clean, pretty.
We have very specific expectations of what that looks like.
We're always buying new trucks. I just sold a truck that had a lot of life left
in it, 2017, and a lot of people said it only has 130,000 miles on it,
has a lot of life left in it. It doesn't fit our image anymore.
(09:35):
It was not the exact same. All of our trucks, we want it to look the same, but we've had to help...
You know, show that's who we are. And I see that as, as driving around town,
I see you guys, your, your image, your vehicles, billboards,
it's, it's consistent, it's clean, very professional, very looking well done.
And if I was in a market for, as a homeowner looking for HVAC,
(09:59):
like that, that will be on the forefront of my mind.
Uh, you don't see like two beat up old outdated trucks and it's kind of putting
down the road. They're all clean. They're all consistent.
So I will say They attest to your marketing. And that's a huge piece.
I see that as a homeowner. Well, we appreciate that. Our marketing,
she's sitting back there. She's like, yes.
But also, it's a level of recruitment, too, because our technicians want to
(10:23):
work in a nice vehicle, and they want to have air conditioning.
They want to have the tools, those things. And so that's what we've done to
separate ourselves from everyone else. And so do you feel like there's,
you know, in your space, I want to talk about pools because.
There's a lot of pool builders in Tulsa. Yeah. But there's not a lot of great
(10:44):
ones. Since this podcast started, three more just started. Three more because it's summer.
And, you know, even when we were building the pool at our last house,
you know, I mean, we had quote after quote after quote, but it would take forever
to even get those quotes.
Well, we're not a customer. And some people didn't even want to quote us.
Yeah, we're not. They were just like, well, we're not on time.
We're not your customer.
That needs six quotes. We are not that customer.
(11:07):
We just, we're actually a normally one and done quote. Okay.
But what do you like? Who do you trust? Yeah. Right. But we need you.
We ended up, I think with six quotes on that pool.
And this was before you did pools, I believe, or we knew you maybe,
but we ended up with six quotes.
We had three reputable Tulsa companies companies not show up for their quote.
(11:30):
We had three others that gave us the quote, but they- Couldn't start for six
months or something crazy like that. Yeah, two couldn't start.
And then the other, they couldn't-
None of them could give us a price. So like for us, if you need a new heat and
air system, you need a new sewer, you need a new generator, someone's going to get you a price today.
Unless it's a little bit more out of the scope of work, then you're going to
(11:53):
get it by tomorrow, period.
Okay. Everyone's working. Because we live in a society where people want it now.
They want things. And we could not get that. And so that's my advice.
You're not looking for advice. I like that. But if you, on pull quotes alone,
like we, I could not believe how many people just didn't show up.
(12:14):
Well, that says a lot. Yeah. So you're not going to get that. And I hear that.
And I can tell you, I don't, I wouldn't take a stab on the percentage,
10 to 15% of jobs that we land are strictly because we're the only one that gave them a number.
Yes. It's not a high percentage, but that's still a good, like free,
a free work because no one else would even, Hey, we'd not meet and greet.
(12:37):
And just because they didn't send an estimate, you know, we got it by default.
Who would have thought that you actually have to give a customer a price to
get the job? Yeah, exactly. Right.
You know, it's like that was mind-blowing to me to the point that,
honestly, that's how Quality ended up adding plumbing was because when we needed
to sub out plumbing, we couldn't find anyone that we trusted like us.
(12:58):
And we wanted them to provide service like us. And that never happened.
And then that's Quality just started electric two weeks ago.
And that's why we started electric because the exact same thing is that we,
every time we needed it, 100%, like, our goal is as if it's not working,
we're going to fix it today.
(13:18):
If it's not fixable or you choose to replace it, we're doing that tomorrow.
And, but if you need, you know, a new thing,
panel or a panel upgrade or something and we had
to sub that out most of those subs that we
were sending it would be okay we can do it next week
and it's like well these people don't have ac and people are looking
for that you know you can go on amazon right now and order
(13:38):
something and it's here tomorrow and in some cases between 4 and 8 a.m or 4
a.m and 8 a.m yeah the next day so we had to we have had to start evolving and
changing what that looks like and so we live in a society where if you want
a price for something if you're going to most people if If you're going to look
at vehicles, you're ready to buy one.
Whether you tell the sales guy that or not, you're ready to buy one.
(13:59):
If you're going to look at one, you're ready to buy one.
And it's the same way. Nobody just is like, well, I'm thinking about replacing
this in three years. Can you give me a price?
Well, the price ain't going to be the same. Well, in three years,
expect it to be a lot more.
Right. But the truth is that most people really have it in their head. I'd like to do this.
Hopefully I can budget or hopefully I can do it. You know what I mean?
That's really the truth.
(14:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's just whenever we were, we built that pool.
What was that two or three summers ago? Probably three summers ago.
We had said then, do we need to make a pool company?
FYI, no. The answer is no. Join the club. Come on. Yeah. Right.
But if you, that's the secret, you know, we just recorded another episode with
(14:41):
someone else earlier and everyone's always asking us like, what is the silver
bullet to business ownership?
What is the silver bullet that made you guys grow? What's this?
And I'm like, There isn't one, but if I had to guess, customer service?
Well, that's why I almost started, I considered starting a spray foam company
because whenever we were going to get our house spray foamed,
they were like six weeks out.
(15:02):
And I'm like, well, why don't I just buy the machine and we figure out how to start doing it?
Because we didn't do it. But I thought, you know, if they're six weeks out,
they're missing out on a lot of business.
Obviously, do they need more machines? Do they need more people?
What's going on? Because if they're backlogged that much.
But anyways, that's... We do live in a generation, a time of population where
a lot of this generation is we want it.
(15:23):
And that phones and technology, everything has got us accustomed to that.
Actually, I won't get much into it, but there's a huge study of this doctor,
this guy that did this big study on how the human brain is actually being changed
and morphed today in our society due to the technology in our phones.
Like, we can't do anything with our phones. I literally have my show notes right
(15:44):
here. And you want information, like you don't need to wait and let me go home
and research and call my dad. I mean, it's right there.
It's a couple of clicks away on your phone. So we do, we want it now,
at least a no, and then able to make a decision.
So you're absolutely right. And that doesn't just go to the younger generation.
That's all generations because of just the natural society has done that.
(16:06):
So I think there's a huge, something to say to that where, you know,
people are, they call and looking for quotes for HVAC, a pool, a home.
They're serious and they've really kind of started the process.
And they probably have an idea of what somebody else has paid for something similar.
So they're going to know most of the time if you're way out of the ballpark
or way under and go, okay, well, I just read that the average pool or the average
(16:30):
air conditioner in Tulsa was X, you know, and people do that.
We ask a lot of our, you know, when we're headed out to a quote,
like, what is your expectation that this would cost?
Because there is, especially, we don't see it. I feel like in plumbing and electric, it's not.
We had a lot of people really devaluing what we did in HVAC for a long time.
(16:54):
And that still happens. The people that, you know, if you're looking for the
bottom dollar, the cheapest price, we're not your company. just because we show up 24-7.
Someone in our building answers the phone until 9 p.m. every single night.
They are sitting in that building until 9 p.m. It's not third party.
We're dispatching. You talk to our managers. If you have an issue,
(17:15):
you talk to someone. But that comes with a cost, right?
And that's been a lot of our focus is how to create that experience.
Experience, but then you battle the, well, you know, and you probably see this
too with pools and homes and well, you know, so-and-so is $5,000 cheaper.
What's that $5,000 going to cost you?
Right. Where are you going to, where are you going to get that shorted somewhere
(17:38):
down the road? And the time and the quality in the, yes, a hundred percent every time.
I definitely see that in a lot of people. Or you're as cheaper as I've got a cheaper bid.
I said, well, that's great. Here's why this is our price.
And like I said, we build quality to our product. We're not in the race to the bottom.
(18:01):
It's not our model either.
So you guys, obviously, you get that and I get that as well.
So we have a standard. We have a quality. We have overhead.
And we maintain our professionalism, quality. quality and it's the same product
and it's consistent throughout.
So yeah, we're not going to always be the cheapest. So a very,
no, very few times I have been surprisingly, I don't know how,
(18:23):
but everyone's like, why was that? What did I miss? Yeah, exactly.
And you start getting nervous, but yeah, usually I would say that's 90% or more
of our customers understand that they, they're going with us not being the cheapest bid that they got.
So, or the only bid they got. So what's been the biggest struggle for you,
do you feel like, as far as being a business owner and dealing with,
(18:46):
whether it's customers, your team,
whatever it is, what's been your biggest stressor that you've dealt with in this whole process?
Very good question. Growth. I would say growth. It's, you know,
we all want to grow, right?
We're not in business to just kind of, I mean, maybe some people are to stay
the same, just do whatever you do every year.
(19:07):
We obviously want to keep growing and expanding. And so I would say the biggest
obstacle that we found is we're growing and there's no way around that I mean,
even if we really didn't try too hard,
we're gonna naturally grow so how do you adapt and staff with your your overhead
your your current staff and managers and and.
How to manage the growth, right? You don't want to grow too much where you're
(19:31):
just juggling all day and you can't keep up with the growth,
but a managing and controlled growth.
So I would probably say that's the biggest obstacle with being so embedded into
the business to obviously be kind of,
you have to look up a little bit higher to look down to see everything below
and see where your weak links are and where we need to ramp up and where there's
(19:52):
more demand coming over here and how do we handle that?
So I would say growth is managing the growth.
I told Oscar from our few experiences of the things that we've built,
pools, shop, house, business, building, all of those things.
My general consensus of the sub or the contractor for those things that we did
(20:14):
was they tried to do everything themselves and it never allowed them to have
a good experience for their customer.
So we had projects that wouldn't be on time.
And it's like, Oscar would be like, these guys need a project manager. That's not the owner.
Because when it's just the owner still project managing everything and you've
got 10 projects going, none of them are going efficiently.
(20:36):
None of them, no one's in charge of this one.
You know, it's like, well, this paint needs to be touched up or it didn't get,
this wall didn't get touched at all.
Okay, I got it. And then now I'm reminding two weeks later because so-and-so forgot.
Got or you know when we were building our shop it's like
hey we can't get we we could when
it was time to get into our shop we love the city of
(20:58):
glimple but we could not get occupancy because we
did not have 10 trees okay and it was just like and it was like frozen grounds
it was january when we were supposed to be moving in and your house or the shop
the shop for quality for the building for quality yeah really yeah so wow we
could not get occupancy because glimple has all these new standards because they're growing fine.
(21:21):
But it was time and this was like two years ago. And I,
We had already had Cox move our
phones into the building, and we didn't realize this was holding us up.
We expected occupancy, and they're like, you can't take occupancy.
And I said, well, our phones are coming into this building. And they're like,
you cannot sit in your seats. And I said, I will stand.
It was a battle of the brains. However, it was over 10 trees, right?
(21:45):
But had that been managed properly or better, that would have been caught and
been so far ahead of that, right?
You would have known those, but I feel like what happens is a lot of people
want to start scaling and growing, and they're like, yes, I have 15 projects going at once.
And it's like, okay, well, how many managers do you have? Me.
(22:06):
A lot of people. Well, it's kind of like, I mean, we're in over 50 houses a day.
And if I was the only manager over all of those technicians going out and installs,
going out to houses, there would be so many balls dropped.
It wouldn't even be funny. It would just be crazy. We had, so on our growth
specifically, we had a couple local competitors that were so opinionated on
(22:32):
why we had so much office staff.
Okay. It was the whole hot topic of like, well, one of them was Cassie just
has all that office staff so she can have women in the trades. Okay.
Or they, how can they have pay that much office staff in the overhead?
It's like, well, you're not, so don't worry about it. But that's always been
(22:52):
what we were doing because we were taking care of our customer and we were focused
on the experience and we were planning for the growth. Yeah.
And so we were ahead of the growth. Right. But our customers can rely on that.
Right. And so when you. We did a little bit backwards.
And again, you know, we always say is our quality grew faster than our brains did.
(23:12):
And so we had to sometimes go backwards and be like, oh, crap,
you know, and try to figure things out. But that's what customers want.
Yeah. Because, you know, we talk a lot about Amazon and...
Anybody can sell a job, right? But it's execution.
How do you execute it and follow up in your back office, your overhead,
(23:33):
and being able to keep up with that and execute that internally.
There's a lot that goes to that. Well, you know, they say at Walmart,
the kiosk, the self-check kiosk, if you're buying like a vacuum cleaner and
it'll pop up and say, get the two-year replacement plan.
It's like an 80% close rate because it asks every single time.
So like anyone can people that check you out don't always
(23:54):
ask it yeah now so it asks
every time yeah right well i do too because i'm buying an 80
vacuum yeah we're gonna get it we're gonna buy another one but they but statistically
it's an 80 close rate because people are like well yeah i guess i do need that
and they do it because they ask every time but then they don't go in there shopping
for a warranty right and asking about warranty right and so but they wanted
(24:17):
it once they were like, yeah, okay.
Now that I have the option. Now that I have the option. But then the service
after that on the warranty, what's that look like? Yeah. Not always great, right?
So like you said, anybody can sell, but what you do after you sell is what matters
and what people, that's what gets your return business.
(24:39):
That's what gets the growth. Because the truth is, is there are times we're
all going to screw things up, whether we're building a house or whether we're
putting together a table, right?
Somebody at some point that works for us or whatever is going to screw something up.
But if our customers and the people that we're doing the work for,
big or small, understand that we're going to stand behind our work and take
(24:59):
care of, you know, them through the whole process, that goes a long way as well. Yeah.
For sure. So what do you think is the most overlooked process that homeowners
skip over when considering the next project at their house, like a pool or a.
I would say I would say budget mhm so I,
(25:20):
I have a lot of people that come to tell me, pool or home, this is my budget.
You know, they don't want to tell me that up front. That's fine.
I say, here's all your wish lists, and this is roughly what that cost is going
to be. And say, okay, well, that's outside of my budget.
Okay, well, let's talk what is in your budget.
So I like to tell a lot of the homeowners and our customers that you need to have a contingency.
(25:42):
So let's say on a pool, $85,000 is your max. Well, let's try to get your pool
into 80, 81, maybe 82,000.
There's not a lot of contingency that usually you need on a pool,
but you don't know what's underneath the dirt there either. So you can have surprises.
So I would say a lot of issues on the homeowner side is that they're at their
(26:03):
max when they go in and they're like, oh, I really saw this on HDTV and somebody
had this. And how much is that? And you give them a price.
Oh, can't do that now. And I was like, well, that's fine, but it's going to be twice as much later.
And when you've got concrete to bust out and all kinds of stuff.
I wondered how much HGTV affects because I get so frustrated when they're like.
(26:24):
Apparently I need to start watching HGTV.
Because you have people that are like. You can build a house in 30 minutes on
HGTV. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or like.
Some of the stuff they're charging, a demo wall, $5,000.
I mean, it's like some of these charges are. It's either really extreme or really low.
Yeah, I'm like, wow. But when Chip and Joanna Gaines were on,
it was like the worst because they would say new HVAC system for $7,200. And you're like, what?
(26:50):
Nobody's doing that. And now complete new duct work for $1,000 or something. And you're like, what?
Or the tile for a whole new bathroom would be so cheap. They would put these
numbers on there that weren't realistic.
And so people all the time would be like, well, Chip and Joanna Gaines just
replaced the new HVAC system for this brand new house.
And they have that expectation all the time. I was like, well,
I can, I can get all this done for only that much on my house.
(27:13):
Yeah. And so it's a false expectation. And then they call you and you're like,
that doesn't even cover the cost.
Maybe that was their price for the bulk. Yeah. You know.
Could be the difference between Texas and some of the other shows in back East
where they're, you know, that same tile is, you know, five times the cost. So. Yeah.
That's crazy. I just wondered if you ever like bump into that. We do. We do. Yeah.
(27:33):
People are actually, so a product that we just got, Softcrete, a customer.
At the home and garden show just last year brought that to us and
and asked us if we did softcrete and i had never heard of
it and she says it's rubber doesn't
get hot slip resistant decking that they put around pools and it's made of rubber
(27:53):
and doesn't fade and she sold me on it i was like wow that sounds really cool
but never heard of it so i looked it up she said yeah i saw it on hgtv i said
oh okay so i looked it up and i was like wow this sounds really cool it's like
what they they put around parks and splash pads,
looked it up and messaged the company Softcrete and,
Lo and behold, three months later, like we bought the territory to install it
(28:16):
for the entire state of Oklahoma.
But I was, I got sold on it at the Home and Garden Show. From a customer.
From a customer that sold on HGTV. Wow, that's cool.
Yeah, so that's the history behind it. And, you know, now we're probably getting
ready to install some of that at the gathering place.
So we'll have some good exposure. And it's really picking up steam.
And being the only one that can install it in the state of Oklahoma,
(28:37):
it's a pretty, it's a very phenomenal product.
But yeah, that's. You do definitely have to be willing to grow.
That's one of quality's core values. So it's like so embedded in me that I say
it to other people all the time.
But you have to be willing to grow in like what technology can do and what your customers are seeing.
Because some people get so close minded of, no, I've done it this way for so
(29:00):
long. You know, if Oscar, if we...
Learned it, we wouldn't be selling as much because back then,
way back then, because he's way older than me, way back then,
he was doing, I mean, there was no Wi-Fi thermostats.
(29:23):
There was no communicating systems.
There was no... Hey, I still wrote invoices on paper. He did do that, right?
But there's so much of that. There's mercury thermostats. But if we just kept
that mindset, we would be leaving our customers out of all the technology.
Sure, yeah. And even with like our older customers that are older generation customers, they –.
(29:50):
It's funny because sometimes they are more excited about the technology than
even the younger generation who just expect it. Yeah.
When we, before my grandparents passed away, we replaced my grandparents' HVAC
system and we put a digital thermostat in my papa's house and it was literally
like the basic, most basic digital thermostat.
(30:12):
Like it was the biggest, largest display that we could find with the biggest
buttons and it was up or down.
No wi-fi no programming but he thought that was the coolest thing ever yeah you know sure but,
i could have we could have just left him on his an old mercury thermostat
right and they but you have to be willing
to like go learn go go learn about the soft creek evolve and then be able to
(30:34):
teach that yeah and you know some people hold themselves back by not being willing
to do that yeah the soft creek came when i wasn't wasn't looking for it i was
at the home and garden show to sell our products, our current products, right? Homes and pools.
And a customer came up to the booth and sold me on a product that we didn't have.
So that's cool. So we are, speaking of the Home and Garden Show,
(30:54):
we're all going to be doing that next week.
This episode will probably, will not be live. So this will be in retro.
We'll have to like come back and be like, so did it really? Yeah.
But next week we're going to the Home and Garden Show. You've been there a few years.
Yeah. We, this is our first year back. I was telling you before we went live,
about six years ago, we did the home and go show. I think it was six years,
(31:16):
yeah. And we were so much smaller back then.
It about killed us because it was, there's like four people total in the office
and we all worked it straight.
It's like curtain, like who's doing something? And then we're also answering the phones from there.
Now, that's definitely not the experience that'll happen. It'll be a different, different.
But, you know, in our space outside of Oklahoma, there are a lot of people that
(31:36):
have perceptions of these shows. like it's a waste of time.
And I don't truly believe anyone's going to come to the Home and Garden Show.
They're going to see about 12 heat and air companies. Yep.
About, I think there's seven plumbing companies and five or six electric companies.
They're going to see a ton of builders, right? A lot of pools.
Pool builders, yep. It's just about peaking interest. What do you hope to gain
(31:57):
from those shows when you go there?
Well, I always, the first year, so this would be my third, maybe fourth year
at the Home and Garden Show. And.
You know it it does bring sales so there's no doubt about that they're more
competitive sales because everybody's giving away some shiny object whatever
the hitching thing is right so,
(32:18):
not a lot of compulsive decisions are made purchasing a pool right 70 80 000
investment in your backyard it's not just like yeah let's do it so but i do
feel for the branding the growth that we talked about as far as growing the
company being there consistently seeing there is uh you You know,
the billboards, the trucks,
it's being consistent, being a common presence there.
(32:41):
And so this year will be the first year where we get to actually go.
And hopefully that customer that showed us about Soft Creek will actually have
a Soft Creek booth there.
So now we have a new product in the marketplace in Tulsa available to the entire state.
We're actually doing the Home and Garden Show in Tulsa and in Oklahoma City
for Soft Creek this year. Are you doing Claremore?
No, we're not doing the Claremore one. We just, we wanted to kind of ease into it.
(33:06):
So, yeah, so we got quite a, we got quite a log of jobs already that like we
have to get done by the summer. So it's, that's a good problem, right?
It's a good problem, but here it is. It's, you know, it's the growth side of
it. Right. So it's a new product. It sells itself.
It is not the cheapest product. It's a luxury product, but people want it around their pools.
(33:26):
And, you know, for us to being able to, to grow and expand that,
what we want to do now, what does that look like on us being on the back end,
being able to deliver and execute and have the back end?
Office to support the work and the invoicing and the materials and the order and procurement.
So there's a lot that goes to it. So just feel like it's the natural evolution of, of, of growing.
(33:47):
So we look forward to it. The Home and Garden Show, it is long,
exhausting hours and, you know, a lot of talking and it's like a three,
four day podcast almost.
You're just like selling, selling, selling. You got to be on,
on, on, and then you, and then some of it's for nothing. But all of it, it's all for something.
(34:07):
It's all for the exposure, the recognition.
Like I said, I tell our people, we're not going there to sell things.
Equipment, where whatever we come from it is more exposure and more.
Three months later, you'll see, I saw you at the Home and Garden Show.
You go to somebody's house and they got your magnet on the fridge or whatever.
So it all adds up into the branding. It does.
(34:31):
But if you go into it saying like, I'm going to sell a house or I'm going to sell pool this show.
I did that. I did that two years ago. And I said, our goal, we had a goal,
a financial goal where we wanted to sell at the
home and garden show and we we never made it we
never we never made it we always get sales at the home and
garden show so there is definitely a benefit to that it covers the
cost and the time that goes into doing the show but it is
(34:54):
a just a consistency just being there every year
and people that saw us two years ago weren't ready
then and maybe they see us and they're they're ready now so it's
kind of a follow-up and a follow-through with your branding and marketing to
be there and kind of i consider it a necessary
evil but it's not really an evil but it's it's
it's a lot there's a lot that goes into the setup the tear down the
(35:15):
marketing behind it and yeah things of that so there's a
lot that goes into it and i find it beneficial that's definitely gonna be there's
like i said this is our first year back honestly we probably should have been
there the last two years but it just wasn't our focus it was not necessarily
wasn't our focus but it's not cheap number one those booths are not cheap All
of the tear down the setup, you got to have staff to do that.
(35:37):
Kaylee, our marketing manager, she's sitting in the room with us.
Y'all can, if you're listening to any podcast Cassie's on, I'm always talking about Kaylee.
And people think that someone said, well, Kaylee's Cassie's assistant.
And I'm like, I wish she was.
She helps me with a lot of things, but she handles all the marketing for everything.
But literally what goes into this home and garden show yesterday,
(35:59):
I said, Kaylee and I are going to need to be checked into a...
Mental mental mental facility maybe or a
what did i say mental health day like it's
because it's a lot and it's a lot but
anyways it's it's exciting well we are super excited that you got to come in
um actually anybody in the future we are currently recording at blue studios
(36:24):
and anthem construction construction building is where this is housed.
And so we were excited about that, just a little plug there.
With this podcast, we knew what we wanted to do, but we knew that we believe
in staying in our lane of business and what we can do.
So you're probably not ever going to see us, I don't want to say ever,
(36:46):
but I don't know, we'll do a whole setup.
It's easier to come in in an environment like this, out of our office,
do the thing and then leave. And so we're excited Decided to find that in Tulsa.
They're building a brand new, Anthem Construction is actually building them
a brand new studio in the same building. And so lots of opportunity there.
So we thank you for being our second guest ever.
(37:10):
Number two. There you go. I thought it was number one. Yeah, right.
I didn't make the cut. Yeah. It was just like a scheduling thing. Same day, though.
That's right. I'm used to being second best, but sometimes we still. Always the first.
First in homes, Marvin was first in insurance, so you're both the first,
okay? I can always find a way to turn it.
(37:31):
I'll take it. It was great being on with you guys. I really appreciate it and
looking forward to hopefully future invites.
Yeah, for sure. We want to just – our goal for this is to just keep growing,
talking to more businesses in Tulsa that are doing business like us,
That are providing exceptional customer service and to continue to show the Tulsa,
(37:53):
other people in Tulsa that are looking to be entrepreneurs or business owners
to provide great customer service are customers of the type of people that you
can expect who are coming to your house.
And anyway, so we're excited. So thank you for coming and hanging out.
Appreciate it. Thank you. Great being on. Thank you.
On today's episode, we have Nathan Sweats, owner of Anthem Pools,
Homes, and Construction in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
So, we met you. How did we meet you?
I can't remember. I think there's actually a story of trauma we shouldn't talk about.
(00:20):
We previously built a pool with someone. You knew someone.
Maybe it was just Facebook, social media. No, I think we first originally met,
I called you guys to do an install and a custom build for me in Sepulpa.
Yes. You guys did that.
And then I had a remodel customer that was good friends with you, Laura Gibson.
(00:41):
Yes. She was our son's teacher, Ms. Gibson. Oh, yeah. She was our son's teacher. She shot out Ms. Gibson.
She made sure the twins and they all graduated.
And cool. Yeah. Yeah, and then through that, and then we built our house.
You came and looked at our pool.
And so, yeah, all kinds of stuff. But then I think at one point,
(01:02):
the pool that we had built previously, you had talked to us about some concrete
covering or something. Came out to look at it. Softcrete. Yeah.
Cool. So how long have you been in business?
So Anthem has been in business since 2019. 2019, I've been in the construction
industry pretty much since I was 16 years old.
(01:24):
But Anthem here in Tulsa, we've been in business since 2019.
So we originally started as Anthem Construction and evolved into Anthem Pools,
Anthem Homes, and now we own Softcrete, another company as well.
So since 2019, we've been pretty heavy in the presence in the market.
So I know we were talking a little bit before we really went live,
(01:47):
But you are transitioning not so much into residential and less residential, more commercial now?
Yeah, we're trying to focus our sales efforts into more commercial space, yeah. So why?
Yeah, that's a good question. I guess I'm a glutton for punishments in short.
I feel for the company as a general contractor,
(02:10):
I feel, and there's probably contractors that would disagree with this,
but it's probably kind of the next evolution as a general contractor going into
the commercial space and high level.
It really makes sense because we could have one to two commercial jobs replace
the total gross revenue of, let's say, five to eight residential jobs.
(02:34):
So, it's not necessarily we're looking to replace all of our work and go strictly
commercial, but we're just more actively targeting commercial work.
I can imagine, and Oscar probably knows this, on a general contractor perspective,
maybe it is the better play.
But on the subcontractor, it's definitely not normally.
(02:55):
Yeah, as a sub, you have to have a definite niche for it. As a general contractor,
if you know what you're doing and you're able to mitigate through all of the
legalities, that's a lot of words there.
Yeah. But if you're able to do that and do it efficiently, then I feel like
you probably could have a good niche there. Let me ask you a question that's a little bit different.
(03:19):
So what's your why for why you do what you do? That's a good one. Very good question.
My family, my time, freedom, my family. Are you free of your time, though?
No, I'm not. LOL. So, running a business doesn't make you just,
you know, you're not on vacation all the time? No, no.
Not at all. That's so funny. So, that's the idea. That was the idea.
(03:41):
So, what's the motivation?
Yeah, that's what I'm asking about your why. You know, what's your motivation
in life that keeps you passionate or striving to be better at what you do? Right.
So, I've pretty much been an entrepreneur since I was 11 years old.
I started selling candy bars.
That was my first hustle. So it's kind of in my DNA and my wife started Anthem
(04:02):
Realty. They're actually having a meeting right now upstairs.
So we're kind of just a household of entrepreneurs.
So call us crazy, but that's just kind of in our DNA.
And so we, we really enjoy innovation, dreaming, visioning, forecasting. The chase.
Yeah. I think it's a lot of it. A lot of us are like, it's the chase,
(04:24):
right? We think we're searching for freedom.
We never get the freedom, though.
I mean, you don't. Even right now, we have 10 or 11 managers inside the company now, right?
And I'm probably lying. Maybe nine. I think 11 counts me in Oscar.
Different managers inside the company. And there should be a level of freedom,
(04:46):
but there's not because there's still the liability.
And there's still the ownership. And so we, none of that ever leaves,
you know, we're on, we go on vacation and we still work.
Yeah. And so I don't, I felt like for a long time, it was like an irrational
perspective that people had gotten of what that looks like.
(05:06):
And so again, yes, we get to make our own schedule. We get to choose which 20 hours a day we work.
I think that's it. That's the freedom to what hours in like,
am I going to go to sleep at 10 or 12 tonight?
There you go. So am I getting up at four? I say that's the correct answer in
starting your own company, or at least for me, is to having the flexibility.
(05:29):
And I will honestly say that I don't feel personally, and maybe there's a lot
of business owners that feel the same way, that really don't have that much time freedom.
And that's why I say we aspire to, in our family, in our houses,
to have the freedom to, if I want to go take two days off and I'm not having
(05:51):
to clock out and request PTO.
That's the freedom that you get to choose that, but you might still take it
with you. Right. Exactly.
You know, for a long time, general contractors, I mean, you know,
it's not even general contractors. It's all of us, right? right?
Subs in general, where I've always been having to fight this fight of proving
that we are who we say we are, and we're not going to run with your money,
(06:12):
and we're not going to not do what we say we're going to do,
because there's a lot of horror stories, especially in Tulsa,
and probably still everywhere, right?
I actually have a friend that's becoming a GC in California,
and she was telling, she had posted on Facebook, and she had to stop at the
courthouse to get fingerprinted.
And I was like, what in the world? And she said, because in California,
(06:32):
to become any type of contractor, you have to be fingerprinted so they can come after you.
And I'm like, man, we should do that in Tulsa. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we need that.
How do you feel, has that hindered your growth? Have you come up with that? A lot of like people...
You know, you're going out to a bid and you have a hard time overcoming some
of that sometimes. Or is it, do you feel like your experience?
(06:56):
I would, I would say the general marketplace, and I believe a lot of our customers are similar, right?
So you guys do a lot more of the residential homeowners and stuff as I do.
I think the general trepidation for most homeowners is scared.
And someone told them that, you know, we required a large money down and never came back.
(07:17):
And we've been in positions just last year where, you know, homeowners have
given contractors a lot of money to get stuff done and, and vanished and,
and we had to come in to finish.
So, so yeah, the, the general, I believe the general marketplace,
the public has a great fear of that.
And I think all you can do is speak on your personal track record of,
(07:40):
you know, some validation that we have as a company, HBA members,
Better Business Bureau, you know, the kind of accolades and affiliations that
we have to kind of set us apart.
But really, at the end of the day, it's, you know, people are making a decision
like, hey, I feel like I trust these people in this company.
Kind of winning that trust with your customer, you know, basically.
And your track record of past customers definitely helps with that.
(08:04):
And, you know, someone asked us that question not long ago, and I feel like now in 2024.
And maybe it's because of our size now that we don't have to deal with that
quite as often, because I think that you can quickly Google and see who we are
and that we're trustworthy. worthy.
I definitely think in the early years, that was something that we fought a lot,
(08:29):
not just to prove that we were different than what everyone else was and that
we're different than maybe the past company that's been here.
And for us, like specifically, we, when marketing, we were talking about marketing
before we went live, like we don't market certain things.
So for example, we never talk about poop or butt crack plumbers.
(08:50):
Okay. Because that is narrative that was created by someone else that doesn't
portray what plumbing is or who our people are, right?
And so for a long time, so many of our competitors, your competitors,
have created their own problems that we've had to overcome because they created
a narrative that wasn't true. Yeah, trouble is the wrong thing.
(09:13):
And it's just like, when you show up, that's why our trucks all all look brand new, clean, pretty.
We have very specific expectations of what that looks like.
We're always buying new trucks. I just sold a truck that had a lot of life left
in it, 2017, and a lot of people said it only has 130,000 miles on it,
has a lot of life left in it. It doesn't fit our image anymore.
(09:35):
It was not the exact same. All of our trucks, we want it to look the same, but we've had to help...
You know, show that's who we are. And I see that as, as driving around town,
I see you guys, your, your image, your vehicles, billboards,
it's, it's consistent, it's clean, very professional, very looking well done.
And if I was in a market for, as a homeowner looking for HVAC,
(09:59):
like that, that will be on the forefront of my mind.
Uh, you don't see like two beat up old outdated trucks and it's kind of putting
down the road. They're all clean. They're all consistent.
So I will say They attest to your marketing. And that's a huge piece.
I see that as a homeowner. Well, we appreciate that. Our marketing,
she's sitting back there. She's like, yes.
But also, it's a level of recruitment, too, because our technicians want to
(10:23):
work in a nice vehicle, and they want to have air conditioning.
They want to have the tools, those things. And so that's what we've done to
separate ourselves from everyone else. And so do you feel like there's,
you know, in your space, I want to talk about pools because.
There's a lot of pool builders in Tulsa. Yeah. But there's not a lot of great
(10:44):
ones. Since this podcast started, three more just started. Three more because it's summer.
And, you know, even when we were building the pool at our last house,
you know, I mean, we had quote after quote after quote, but it would take forever
to even get those quotes.
Well, we're not a customer. And some people didn't even want to quote us.
Yeah, we're not. They were just like, well, we're not on time.
We're not your customer.
That needs six quotes. We are not that customer.
(11:07):
We just, we're actually a normally one and done quote. Okay.
But what do you like? Who do you trust? Yeah. Right. But we need you.
We ended up, I think with six quotes on that pool.
And this was before you did pools, I believe, or we knew you maybe,
but we ended up with six quotes.
We had three reputable Tulsa companies companies not show up for their quote.
(11:30):
We had three others that gave us the quote, but they- Couldn't start for six
months or something crazy like that. Yeah, two couldn't start.
And then the other, they couldn't-
None of them could give us a price. So like for us, if you need a new heat and
air system, you need a new sewer, you need a new generator, someone's going to get you a price today.
Unless it's a little bit more out of the scope of work, then you're going to
(11:53):
get it by tomorrow, period.
Okay. Everyone's working. Because we live in a society where people want it now.
They want things. And we could not get that. And so that's my advice.
You're not looking for advice. I like that. But if you, on pull quotes alone,
like we, I could not believe how many people just didn't show up.
(12:14):
Well, that says a lot. Yeah. So you're not going to get that. And I hear that.
And I can tell you, I don't, I wouldn't take a stab on the percentage,
10 to 15% of jobs that we land are strictly because we're the only one that gave them a number.
Yes. It's not a high percentage, but that's still a good, like free,
a free work because no one else would even, Hey, we'd not meet and greet.
(12:37):
And just because they didn't send an estimate, you know, we got it by default.
Who would have thought that you actually have to give a customer a price to
get the job? Yeah, exactly. Right.
You know, it's like that was mind-blowing to me to the point that,
honestly, that's how Quality ended up adding plumbing was because when we needed
to sub out plumbing, we couldn't find anyone that we trusted like us.
(12:58):
And we wanted them to provide service like us. And that never happened.
And then that's Quality just started electric two weeks ago.
And that's why we started electric because the exact same thing is that we,
every time we needed it, 100%, like, our goal is as if it's not working,
we're going to fix it today.
(13:18):
If it's not fixable or you choose to replace it, we're doing that tomorrow.
And, but if you need, you know, a new thing,
panel or a panel upgrade or something and we had
to sub that out most of those subs that we
were sending it would be okay we can do it next week
and it's like well these people don't have ac and people are looking
for that you know you can go on amazon right now and order
(13:38):
something and it's here tomorrow and in some cases between 4 and 8 a.m or 4
a.m and 8 a.m yeah the next day so we had to we have had to start evolving and
changing what that looks like and so we live in a society where if you want
a price for something if you're going to most people if If you're going to look
at vehicles, you're ready to buy one.
Whether you tell the sales guy that or not, you're ready to buy one.
(13:59):
If you're going to look at one, you're ready to buy one.
And it's the same way. Nobody just is like, well, I'm thinking about replacing
this in three years. Can you give me a price?
Well, the price ain't going to be the same. Well, in three years,
expect it to be a lot more.
Right. But the truth is that most people really have it in their head. I'd like to do this.
Hopefully I can budget or hopefully I can do it. You know what I mean?
That's really the truth.
(14:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's just whenever we were, we built that pool.
What was that two or three summers ago? Probably three summers ago.
We had said then, do we need to make a pool company?
FYI, no. The answer is no. Join the club. Come on. Yeah. Right.
But if you, that's the secret, you know, we just recorded another episode with
(14:41):
someone else earlier and everyone's always asking us like, what is the silver
bullet to business ownership?
What is the silver bullet that made you guys grow? What's this?
And I'm like, There isn't one, but if I had to guess, customer service?
Well, that's why I almost started, I considered starting a spray foam company
because whenever we were going to get our house spray foamed,
they were like six weeks out.
(15:02):
And I'm like, well, why don't I just buy the machine and we figure out how to start doing it?
Because we didn't do it. But I thought, you know, if they're six weeks out,
they're missing out on a lot of business.
Obviously, do they need more machines? Do they need more people?
What's going on? Because if they're backlogged that much.
But anyways, that's... We do live in a generation, a time of population where
a lot of this generation is we want it.
(15:23):
And that phones and technology, everything has got us accustomed to that.
Actually, I won't get much into it, but there's a huge study of this doctor,
this guy that did this big study on how the human brain is actually being changed
and morphed today in our society due to the technology in our phones.
Like, we can't do anything with our phones. I literally have my show notes right
(15:44):
here. And you want information, like you don't need to wait and let me go home
and research and call my dad. I mean, it's right there.
It's a couple of clicks away on your phone. So we do, we want it now,
at least a no, and then able to make a decision.
So you're absolutely right. And that doesn't just go to the younger generation.
That's all generations because of just the natural society has done that.
(16:06):
So I think there's a huge, something to say to that where, you know,
people are, they call and looking for quotes for HVAC, a pool, a home.
They're serious and they've really kind of started the process.
And they probably have an idea of what somebody else has paid for something similar.
So they're going to know most of the time if you're way out of the ballpark
or way under and go, okay, well, I just read that the average pool or the average
(16:30):
air conditioner in Tulsa was X, you know, and people do that.
We ask a lot of our, you know, when we're headed out to a quote,
like, what is your expectation that this would cost?
Because there is, especially, we don't see it. I feel like in plumbing and electric, it's not.
We had a lot of people really devaluing what we did in HVAC for a long time.
(16:54):
And that still happens. The people that, you know, if you're looking for the
bottom dollar, the cheapest price, we're not your company. just because we show up 24-7.
Someone in our building answers the phone until 9 p.m. every single night.
They are sitting in that building until 9 p.m. It's not third party.
We're dispatching. You talk to our managers. If you have an issue,
(17:15):
you talk to someone. But that comes with a cost, right?
And that's been a lot of our focus is how to create that experience.
Experience, but then you battle the, well, you know, and you probably see this
too with pools and homes and well, you know, so-and-so is $5,000 cheaper.
What's that $5,000 going to cost you?
Right. Where are you going to, where are you going to get that shorted somewhere
(17:38):
down the road? And the time and the quality in the, yes, a hundred percent every time.
I definitely see that in a lot of people. Or you're as cheaper as I've got a cheaper bid.
I said, well, that's great. Here's why this is our price.
And like I said, we build quality to our product. We're not in the race to the bottom.
(18:01):
It's not our model either.
So you guys, obviously, you get that and I get that as well.
So we have a standard. We have a quality. We have overhead.
And we maintain our professionalism, quality. quality and it's the same product
and it's consistent throughout.
So yeah, we're not going to always be the cheapest. So a very,
no, very few times I have been surprisingly, I don't know how,
(18:23):
but everyone's like, why was that? What did I miss? Yeah, exactly.
And you start getting nervous, but yeah, usually I would say that's 90% or more
of our customers understand that they, they're going with us not being the cheapest bid that they got.
So, or the only bid they got. So what's been the biggest struggle for you,
do you feel like, as far as being a business owner and dealing with,
(18:46):
whether it's customers, your team,
whatever it is, what's been your biggest stressor that you've dealt with in this whole process?
Very good question. Growth. I would say growth. It's, you know,
we all want to grow, right?
We're not in business to just kind of, I mean, maybe some people are to stay
the same, just do whatever you do every year.
(19:07):
We obviously want to keep growing and expanding. And so I would say the biggest
obstacle that we found is we're growing and there's no way around that I mean,
even if we really didn't try too hard,
we're gonna naturally grow so how do you adapt and staff with your your overhead
your your current staff and managers and and.
How to manage the growth, right? You don't want to grow too much where you're
(19:31):
just juggling all day and you can't keep up with the growth,
but a managing and controlled growth.
So I would probably say that's the biggest obstacle with being so embedded into
the business to obviously be kind of,
you have to look up a little bit higher to look down to see everything below
and see where your weak links are and where we need to ramp up and where there's
(19:52):
more demand coming over here and how do we handle that?
So I would say growth is managing the growth.
I told Oscar from our few experiences of the things that we've built,
pools, shop, house, business, building, all of those things.
My general consensus of the sub or the contractor for those things that we did
(20:14):
was they tried to do everything themselves and it never allowed them to have
a good experience for their customer.
So we had projects that wouldn't be on time.
And it's like, Oscar would be like, these guys need a project manager. That's not the owner.
Because when it's just the owner still project managing everything and you've
got 10 projects going, none of them are going efficiently.
(20:36):
None of them, no one's in charge of this one.
You know, it's like, well, this paint needs to be touched up or it didn't get,
this wall didn't get touched at all.
Okay, I got it. And then now I'm reminding two weeks later because so-and-so forgot.
Got or you know when we were building our shop it's like
hey we can't get we we could when
it was time to get into our shop we love the city of
(20:58):
glimple but we could not get occupancy because we
did not have 10 trees okay and it was just like and it was like frozen grounds
it was january when we were supposed to be moving in and your house or the shop
the shop for quality for the building for quality yeah really yeah so wow we
could not get occupancy because glimple has all these new standards because they're growing fine.
(21:21):
But it was time and this was like two years ago. And I,
We had already had Cox move our
phones into the building, and we didn't realize this was holding us up.
We expected occupancy, and they're like, you can't take occupancy.
And I said, well, our phones are coming into this building. And they're like,
you cannot sit in your seats. And I said, I will stand.
It was a battle of the brains. However, it was over 10 trees, right?
(21:45):
But had that been managed properly or better, that would have been caught and
been so far ahead of that, right?
You would have known those, but I feel like what happens is a lot of people
want to start scaling and growing, and they're like, yes, I have 15 projects going at once.
And it's like, okay, well, how many managers do you have? Me.
(22:06):
A lot of people. Well, it's kind of like, I mean, we're in over 50 houses a day.
And if I was the only manager over all of those technicians going out and installs,
going out to houses, there would be so many balls dropped.
It wouldn't even be funny. It would just be crazy. We had, so on our growth
specifically, we had a couple local competitors that were so opinionated on
(22:32):
why we had so much office staff.
Okay. It was the whole hot topic of like, well, one of them was Cassie just
has all that office staff so she can have women in the trades. Okay.
Or they, how can they have pay that much office staff in the overhead?
It's like, well, you're not, so don't worry about it. But that's always been
(22:52):
what we were doing because we were taking care of our customer and we were focused
on the experience and we were planning for the growth. Yeah.
And so we were ahead of the growth. Right. But our customers can rely on that.
Right. And so when you. We did a little bit backwards.
And again, you know, we always say is our quality grew faster than our brains did.
(23:12):
And so we had to sometimes go backwards and be like, oh, crap,
you know, and try to figure things out. But that's what customers want.
Yeah. Because, you know, we talk a lot about Amazon and...
Anybody can sell a job, right? But it's execution.
How do you execute it and follow up in your back office, your overhead,
(23:33):
and being able to keep up with that and execute that internally.
There's a lot that goes to that. Well, you know, they say at Walmart,
the kiosk, the self-check kiosk, if you're buying like a vacuum cleaner and
it'll pop up and say, get the two-year replacement plan.
It's like an 80% close rate because it asks every single time.
So like anyone can people that check you out don't always
(23:54):
ask it yeah now so it asks
every time yeah right well i do too because i'm buying an 80
vacuum yeah we're gonna get it we're gonna buy another one but they but statistically
it's an 80 close rate because people are like well yeah i guess i do need that
and they do it because they ask every time but then they don't go in there shopping
for a warranty right and asking about warranty right and so but they wanted
(24:17):
it once they were like, yeah, okay.
Now that I have the option. Now that I have the option. But then the service
after that on the warranty, what's that look like? Yeah. Not always great, right?
So like you said, anybody can sell, but what you do after you sell is what matters
and what people, that's what gets your return business.
(24:39):
That's what gets the growth. Because the truth is, is there are times we're
all going to screw things up, whether we're building a house or whether we're
putting together a table, right?
Somebody at some point that works for us or whatever is going to screw something up.
But if our customers and the people that we're doing the work for,
big or small, understand that we're going to stand behind our work and take
(24:59):
care of, you know, them through the whole process, that goes a long way as well. Yeah.
For sure. So what do you think is the most overlooked process that homeowners
skip over when considering the next project at their house, like a pool or a.
I would say I would say budget mhm so I,
(25:20):
I have a lot of people that come to tell me, pool or home, this is my budget.
You know, they don't want to tell me that up front. That's fine.
I say, here's all your wish lists, and this is roughly what that cost is going
to be. And say, okay, well, that's outside of my budget.
Okay, well, let's talk what is in your budget.
So I like to tell a lot of the homeowners and our customers that you need to have a contingency.
(25:42):
So let's say on a pool, $85,000 is your max. Well, let's try to get your pool
into 80, 81, maybe 82,000.
There's not a lot of contingency that usually you need on a pool,
but you don't know what's underneath the dirt there either. So you can have surprises.
So I would say a lot of issues on the homeowner side is that they're at their
(26:03):
max when they go in and they're like, oh, I really saw this on HDTV and somebody
had this. And how much is that? And you give them a price.
Oh, can't do that now. And I was like, well, that's fine, but it's going to be twice as much later.
And when you've got concrete to bust out and all kinds of stuff.
I wondered how much HGTV affects because I get so frustrated when they're like.
(26:24):
Apparently I need to start watching HGTV.
Because you have people that are like. You can build a house in 30 minutes on
HGTV. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or like.
Some of the stuff they're charging, a demo wall, $5,000.
I mean, it's like some of these charges are. It's either really extreme or really low.
Yeah, I'm like, wow. But when Chip and Joanna Gaines were on,
it was like the worst because they would say new HVAC system for $7,200. And you're like, what?
(26:50):
Nobody's doing that. And now complete new duct work for $1,000 or something. And you're like, what?
Or the tile for a whole new bathroom would be so cheap. They would put these
numbers on there that weren't realistic.
And so people all the time would be like, well, Chip and Joanna Gaines just
replaced the new HVAC system for this brand new house.
And they have that expectation all the time. I was like, well,
I can, I can get all this done for only that much on my house.
(27:13):
Yeah. And so it's a false expectation. And then they call you and you're like,
that doesn't even cover the cost.
Maybe that was their price for the bulk. Yeah. You know.
Could be the difference between Texas and some of the other shows in back East
where they're, you know, that same tile is, you know, five times the cost. So. Yeah.
That's crazy. I just wondered if you ever like bump into that. We do. We do. Yeah.
(27:33):
People are actually, so a product that we just got, Softcrete, a customer.
At the home and garden show just last year brought that to us and
and asked us if we did softcrete and i had never heard of
it and she says it's rubber doesn't
get hot slip resistant decking that they put around pools and it's made of rubber
(27:53):
and doesn't fade and she sold me on it i was like wow that sounds really cool
but never heard of it so i looked it up she said yeah i saw it on hgtv i said
oh okay so i looked it up and i was like wow this sounds really cool it's like
what they they put around parks and splash pads,
looked it up and messaged the company Softcrete and,
Lo and behold, three months later, like we bought the territory to install it
(28:16):
for the entire state of Oklahoma.
But I was, I got sold on it at the Home and Garden Show. From a customer.
From a customer that sold on HGTV. Wow, that's cool.
Yeah, so that's the history behind it. And, you know, now we're probably getting
ready to install some of that at the gathering place.
So we'll have some good exposure. And it's really picking up steam.
And being the only one that can install it in the state of Oklahoma,
(28:37):
it's a pretty, it's a very phenomenal product.
But yeah, that's. You do definitely have to be willing to grow.
That's one of quality's core values. So it's like so embedded in me that I say
it to other people all the time.
But you have to be willing to grow in like what technology can do and what your customers are seeing.
Because some people get so close minded of, no, I've done it this way for so
(29:00):
long. You know, if Oscar, if we...
Learned it, we wouldn't be selling as much because back then,
way back then, because he's way older than me, way back then,
he was doing, I mean, there was no Wi-Fi thermostats.
(29:23):
There was no communicating systems.
There was no... Hey, I still wrote invoices on paper. He did do that, right?
But there's so much of that. There's mercury thermostats. But if we just kept
that mindset, we would be leaving our customers out of all the technology.
Sure, yeah. And even with like our older customers that are older generation customers, they –.
(29:50):
It's funny because sometimes they are more excited about the technology than
even the younger generation who just expect it. Yeah.
When we, before my grandparents passed away, we replaced my grandparents' HVAC
system and we put a digital thermostat in my papa's house and it was literally
like the basic, most basic digital thermostat.
(30:12):
Like it was the biggest, largest display that we could find with the biggest
buttons and it was up or down.
No wi-fi no programming but he thought that was the coolest thing ever yeah you know sure but,
i could have we could have just left him on his an old mercury thermostat
right and they but you have to be willing
to like go learn go go learn about the soft creek evolve and then be able to
(30:34):
teach that yeah and you know some people hold themselves back by not being willing
to do that yeah the soft creek came when i wasn't wasn't looking for it i was
at the home and garden show to sell our products, our current products, right? Homes and pools.
And a customer came up to the booth and sold me on a product that we didn't have.
So that's cool. So we are, speaking of the Home and Garden Show,
(30:54):
we're all going to be doing that next week.
This episode will probably, will not be live. So this will be in retro.
We'll have to like come back and be like, so did it really? Yeah.
But next week we're going to the Home and Garden Show. You've been there a few years.
Yeah. We, this is our first year back. I was telling you before we went live,
about six years ago, we did the home and go show. I think it was six years,
(31:16):
yeah. And we were so much smaller back then.
It about killed us because it was, there's like four people total in the office
and we all worked it straight.
It's like curtain, like who's doing something? And then we're also answering the phones from there.
Now, that's definitely not the experience that'll happen. It'll be a different, different.
But, you know, in our space outside of Oklahoma, there are a lot of people that
(31:36):
have perceptions of these shows. like it's a waste of time.
And I don't truly believe anyone's going to come to the Home and Garden Show.
They're going to see about 12 heat and air companies. Yep.
About, I think there's seven plumbing companies and five or six electric companies.
They're going to see a ton of builders, right? A lot of pools.
Pool builders, yep. It's just about peaking interest. What do you hope to gain
(31:57):
from those shows when you go there?
Well, I always, the first year, so this would be my third, maybe fourth year
at the Home and Garden Show. And.
You know it it does bring sales so there's no doubt about that they're more
competitive sales because everybody's giving away some shiny object whatever
the hitching thing is right so,
(32:18):
not a lot of compulsive decisions are made purchasing a pool right 70 80 000
investment in your backyard it's not just like yeah let's do it so but i do
feel for the branding the growth that we talked about as far as growing the
company being there consistently seeing there is uh you You know,
the billboards, the trucks,
it's being consistent, being a common presence there.
(32:41):
And so this year will be the first year where we get to actually go.
And hopefully that customer that showed us about Soft Creek will actually have
a Soft Creek booth there.
So now we have a new product in the marketplace in Tulsa available to the entire state.
We're actually doing the Home and Garden Show in Tulsa and in Oklahoma City
for Soft Creek this year. Are you doing Claremore?
No, we're not doing the Claremore one. We just, we wanted to kind of ease into it.
(33:06):
So, yeah, so we got quite a, we got quite a log of jobs already that like we
have to get done by the summer. So it's, that's a good problem, right?
It's a good problem, but here it is. It's, you know, it's the growth side of
it. Right. So it's a new product. It sells itself.
It is not the cheapest product. It's a luxury product, but people want it around their pools.
(33:26):
And, you know, for us to being able to, to grow and expand that,
what we want to do now, what does that look like on us being on the back end,
being able to deliver and execute and have the back end?
Office to support the work and the invoicing and the materials and the order and procurement.
So there's a lot that goes to it. So just feel like it's the natural evolution of, of, of growing.
(33:47):
So we look forward to it. The Home and Garden Show, it is long,
exhausting hours and, you know, a lot of talking and it's like a three,
four day podcast almost.
You're just like selling, selling, selling. You got to be on,
on, on, and then you, and then some of it's for nothing. But all of it, it's all for something.
(34:07):
It's all for the exposure, the recognition.
Like I said, I tell our people, we're not going there to sell things.
Equipment, where whatever we come from it is more exposure and more.
Three months later, you'll see, I saw you at the Home and Garden Show.
You go to somebody's house and they got your magnet on the fridge or whatever.
So it all adds up into the branding. It does.
(34:31):
But if you go into it saying like, I'm going to sell a house or I'm going to sell pool this show.
I did that. I did that two years ago. And I said, our goal, we had a goal,
a financial goal where we wanted to sell at the
home and garden show and we we never made it we
never we never made it we always get sales at the home and
garden show so there is definitely a benefit to that it covers the
cost and the time that goes into doing the show but it is
(34:54):
a just a consistency just being there every year
and people that saw us two years ago weren't ready
then and maybe they see us and they're they're ready now so it's
kind of a follow-up and a follow-through with your branding and marketing to
be there and kind of i consider it a necessary
evil but it's not really an evil but it's it's
it's a lot there's a lot that goes into the setup the tear down the
(35:15):
marketing behind it and yeah things of that so there's a
lot that goes into it and i find it beneficial that's definitely gonna be there's
like i said this is our first year back honestly we probably should have been
there the last two years but it just wasn't our focus it was not necessarily
wasn't our focus but it's not cheap number one those booths are not cheap All
of the tear down the setup, you got to have staff to do that.
(35:37):
Kaylee, our marketing manager, she's sitting in the room with us.
Y'all can, if you're listening to any podcast Cassie's on, I'm always talking about Kaylee.
And people think that someone said, well, Kaylee's Cassie's assistant.
And I'm like, I wish she was.
She helps me with a lot of things, but she handles all the marketing for everything.
But literally what goes into this home and garden show yesterday,
(35:59):
I said, Kaylee and I are going to need to be checked into a...
Mental mental mental facility maybe or a
what did i say mental health day like it's
because it's a lot and it's a lot but
anyways it's it's exciting well we are super excited that you got to come in
um actually anybody in the future we are currently recording at blue studios
(36:24):
and anthem construction construction building is where this is housed.
And so we were excited about that, just a little plug there.
With this podcast, we knew what we wanted to do, but we knew that we believe
in staying in our lane of business and what we can do.
So you're probably not ever going to see us, I don't want to say ever,
(36:46):
but I don't know, we'll do a whole setup.
It's easier to come in in an environment like this, out of our office,
do the thing and then leave. And so we're excited Decided to find that in Tulsa.
They're building a brand new, Anthem Construction is actually building them
a brand new studio in the same building. And so lots of opportunity there.
So we thank you for being our second guest ever.
(37:10):
Number two. There you go. I thought it was number one. Yeah, right.
I didn't make the cut. Yeah. It was just like a scheduling thing. Same day, though.
That's right. I'm used to being second best, but sometimes we still. Always the first.
First in homes, Marvin was first in insurance, so you're both the first,
okay? I can always find a way to turn it.
(37:31):
I'll take it. It was great being on with you guys. I really appreciate it and
looking forward to hopefully future invites.
Yeah, for sure. We want to just – our goal for this is to just keep growing,
talking to more businesses in Tulsa that are doing business like us,
That are providing exceptional customer service and to continue to show the Tulsa,
(37:53):
other people in Tulsa that are looking to be entrepreneurs or business owners
to provide great customer service are customers of the type of people that you
can expect who are coming to your house.
And anyway, so we're excited. So thank you for coming and hanging out.
Appreciate it. Thank you. Great being on. Thank you.
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