March 19, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when you stop second-guessing yourself and start following the pull toward something greater? Sometimes, the smallest seed of inspiration is actually your inner compass guiding you toward something much more.
In this episode of Unapologetically Yours, host Ashley Logan sits down with Jackie Hutson, managing partner of Atrium, founder of Piper & Mint, and all-around entrepreneurial powerhouse. Jackie shares her journey from building a multi-million dollar business to launching a product-based brand from scratch, all while redefining what success and balance truly mean for her.
Together, Ashley and Jackie dive into the depths of what it really takes to be an entrepreneur—the wins, the doubts, and the mindset shifts that make all the difference. They discuss what it means to lead with authenticity, how to trust your gut in business, and why boundaries are essential for sustainable success.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
- How Jackie scaled Atrium from $4M to $30M and what she learned along the way.
- The leap from corporate leadership to launching a startup—and why she finally said yes to herself.
- Balancing masculine and feminine energy in business and leadership.
- How to set boundaries, delegate, and protect your time as a high-performing entrepreneur.
- The reality of starting a product-based business from scratch—and what it takes to bring an idea to life.
- The importance of community, mentorship, and surrounding yourself with the right people.
…and so much more!
✨ Plus, Jackie shares the hardest lesson she’s learned as a leader and the mindset shift that changed everything.
This episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and powerful takeaways for entrepreneurs, dreamers, and anyone trying to juggle it all.
Connect with Jackie:
Instagram @piperandmint
TikTok @piperandmint
Website: www.piperandmint.com
Email: jackie@piperandmint.com
Connect with Ashley Logan:
Instagram @ashleydlogan
Website https://ashleydlogan.com/
Have a topic or guest you’d love to see featured on the Unapologetically Yours podcast? Send us an email: podcast@unapologeticallyyours.com
Keywords
spirituality, entrepreneurship, authenticity, motherhood, business, night sweats, women empowerment, personal growth, community support, purpose-driven, postpartum, sleep, women's health, entrepreneurship, community, comfort, innovation, pajamas, networking, milestones, business, family, self-care, boundaries, mom guilt, community, connection, entrepreneurship, personal growth, hobbies
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Unapologetic Living
03:02 The Journey of Authenticity
06:03 Balancing Business and Personal Life
08:55 The Birth of Piper and Mint
12:10 Purpose-Driven Entrepreneurship
14:52 The Impact of Night Sweats on Women
17:55 Building a Community and Support System
18:31 Innovative Pajamas: Comfort and Functionality
19:46 Women's Health Conversations: Breaking the Silence
21:48 Entrepreneurial Journey: From Vision to Reality
24:52 The Importance of Community for Working Mothers
27:33 Finding Your People: The Entrepreneurial Network
29:45 Celebrating Milestones: The Power of Reflection
32:18 Balancing Business and Family Life
35:19 Setting Boundaries for Personal Well-being
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Unapologetically Yours podcast.
I'm your host Ashley Logan and this is a place where we go deep on everything fromspirituality to relationship and connection to business and belief system because in a
world when we've been taught to play by the rules, it's time to live a little bitunapologetically.
For those of you who are tuning in for the first time, I am a mother of three, anentrepreneur.
(00:25):
I am also very deep in somatic.
practices from sound healing to breath work and have basically made it a point tore-examine every system that I built my life on over the last couple of years to start to
(00:45):
find truth and start to treat myself like a whole person instead of a fragmented personwearing the hat of mother, wearing the hat of wife, wearing the hat of business owner and
all of the things.
This adventure has taken me on a journey of bringing people from my past back into mylife, opening doors to new connections.
(01:09):
And I have to say that when you live a life that is fully aligned, the universe starts towork so much in your favor.
So with that, I want to introduce our guest today, who is a friend of mine that we metwhen we are 14 years old.
And then we're always friends and always cheering each other on from a distance.
(01:32):
But then really it was in the pandemic when we were both entrepreneurs figuring out life,figuring out business and realized that we really had sort of a gap in the space of
someone who really understood what it was like to run a business, what it meant to be amother and what it meant to wear all of these hats at once.
(01:52):
while also
paying attention to our spirituality, taking care of ourselves, making time for fun andpleasure and all of those things.
So without further ado, I want to introduce Jackie Hudson.
Thank you Ash, I'm so happy to be here.
So for background, Jackie is a managing partner of a company called Atrium, and she cantell you all about that company that she, like a total badass, bought into when it was at
(02:18):
roughly $4 million in revenue.
She has helped grow it to over $30 million in revenue.
She's a mother of two awesome, super high energy boys.
She is an entrepreneur in so many ways, from real estate investment to her latest project,Piper and Mint.
which is a company that provides pajamas that are moisture wicking for women who arebreastfeeding or in menopause to help combat those pesky night sweats that we all know a
(02:51):
thing or two about as women.
She wears a million hats in her life and also manages to show up as a friend.
as a mentor for others and a constant learner of the world.
So I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
So tell us, Jackie, with all of the hats that you wear, who are you today?
(03:16):
man, that's a really good question.
I think I am most authentic, I'm the most authentic version of myself that I've ever beenin my whole life.
think I always, I'm the same person on the inside, but I think the outside version of meis now matching that, right?
The thoughts and feelings that I've had, the way that my heart has led, I think I amdefinitely a people pleaser.
(03:41):
And so it's been a life of maybe,
thinking a lot of things and wanting to say a lot of things, but always being concernedabout others and how it's gonna come off where now I feel like I finally stepped into my
full truth.
And I will, you know, it still comes from my heart.
You know, I'm gonna still approach these things, but I'm not afraid to say the thinganymore.
I'm really been doing a lot of work thanks to you from an amazing, you know, women'sretreat that we had a couple years ago, a year and a half ago by now, but it's just really
(04:11):
been a journey of working on
my inner self and really letting that be what you see on the outside as well, right?
Not just this facade, not just, you know, part of me, but the whole me and bringing thatwhole me to work.
And that's okay, right?
And bringing the whole me into my marriage and that's okay, right?
And so people are getting, I almost think people are going to to know like a new versionof me these days.
(04:33):
And it's really exciting to be able to show up that way and just, again, have such aweight.
Like I never realized how.
I carried things on my shoulders to be honest by keeping those thoughts and feelingsinside.
yeah, again, I'm the same fifth grader that sold my Beanie Babies for $5,000 back in theday that I was, you know, it's just, I'm selling different things now, I guess.
(04:58):
So again, lot of the essence of who I am and how I approach life and things is definitelythe same, but I just feel like I've really come into my voice as a Voight.
I love that and I've seen that and had got to have a front row seats.
You do and but the truth is is that as women I think and especially as mothers and and inthe business world we're sort of taught to operate a certain way and be a be in a certain
(05:22):
energy and one I've talked about this a lot in season one like when you enter theworkforce, you've got to show up and Be professional and do all the things.
Yeah
And I guess going even a letter level deeper on that, you kind of mimic the masculine wayof doing business.
And that can be really tough as an empathetic heart led leader, then you start to try tofit yourself in a box where you're not maybe saying the things that are on your mind or
(05:50):
doing the things that you know in your heart are right.
But I'm here to say and can bear witness to you who've done this, that by doing thosethings and being your full self in business, it,
how far you've gotten.
What you've managed to do, look at the team that you've built and how you're more inalignment, which creates more ease and flow in every area of
(06:12):
And it's still a process, right?
Like I am on this journey.
I can look back and see where I've come from and I can be so proud of myself.
And then I can also look ahead and say, okay, like here's where I still need to do somemore work, right?
And still continue to gain that confidence and still continue to be rooted in my, youknow, my gut.
(06:33):
I've always had right gut and seeing people say that, but like I truly, feel it there andjust leaning into that and knowing that.
God, the universe like has my back and I will bet on myself.
I always say, if you're gonna bet on anybody, like bet on yourself, right?
And that's what I did with buying into Atrium.
And so I think that trusting that feeling and then actually doing action off of it, notjust saying, it's there, but, it's there, but, and then listening to all the noises around
(07:00):
me versus being like, it's there.
I need to now move my feet to do what my body's telling me, you what it's feeling.
So again, those are like.
Big aha moments for me, know?
Again, thanks to you.
And all, again, like breath work was like a life-changing experience for me.
I'd never done anything like that.
And then all of a sudden it was just like, holy shit, like what is coming out of me isjust, you know, like years of just pent up emotions, you know, and feelings that were
(07:30):
real, but I just didn't have the confidence or, you know, I don't even know, not theknowledge, but just.
Yeah, I think it really was like the confidence to say it, you know, and really sharethose feelings.
Yeah, it's so true.
mean, and like once you see the truth about yourself and your potential, it's really hardto unsee it.
Yeah.
It's going down the path of doing that inner work can be scary because it's like you'reforced to look in the mirror.
(07:57):
You're forced to then reconcile the things that don't fit any longer.
And also,
You know, it takes an element of courage to then make the change, but then when you havethe tools to know that you're supported, and especially when have a community of people
around you who are cheering for you, that makes a huge difference too.
Yeah, I mean, I think my girl chat that I have with you and some other fellow like badassbusiness friends, when tough days come for sure, right?
(08:23):
And sometimes when I'm just, especially, I'm part of this very large scale business, whichis awesome, but I also have passions in other places.
And so I launched, as you mentioned, my own product brand last year and very differentworld, right?
I'm living in one.
mass manufacturing, scaling, working with big retailers.
And then I'm starting from literally zero followers and making my own product, you know,and trying to balance, you know, the budget with the minimums and all the things that come
(08:52):
with manufacturing a product.
so, you know, some days are like, shit, like, this, am I really doing this?
You know, is this really worth it?
And then it just takes like one minute or one pep text back from your friend being like,you're killing it girl.
And I'm like, you're right.
Like I literally started from zero.
And again,
looking back on where I started versus always having this like goal or target, cause I'mvery goal oriented and I set big lofty goals.
(09:15):
But if I'm always looking ahead, I realized I was feeling like a failure cause I wasn'tthere yet where I'm really trying to tell myself like, look back, turn around and see
where you started this journey.
And then it's like, yeah, girl, like we're moving, you know, like we've made progress.
So I think living in that like dichotomy now of like two very different businesses hasbeen very.
humbling in a great way for me to say like, it's okay, like growth takes time.
(09:39):
It's not gonna be overnight.
But again, as long as I'm knowing that we're progressing, like I'm moving in the rightdirection, you know?
Yeah.
I love that so much.
I think that I need to go to touch back on a couple of different things.
Like when it comes to, I think, being a entrepreneur, it takes courage, of course, andguts to put yourself out there to create something, to share something that you've birthed
(10:06):
in the world.
And it also takes guts to lead a team and requires compassion and heart and businesssense.
And so that you're striking that balance between like,
margins, profits, people, and the mission, and being a mission-driven business.
And so many women today are starting these incredible mission-driven businesses.
(10:27):
And when you're measuring yourself against the matrix of patriarchal capitalism, whereit's like growth, all of these things are deep in performance, it's hard to sit in the
present and say, you know what?
I did something amazing.
I created a
And so now let's shift and talk a little bit about Piper and Nitten.
(10:49):
So you had this vision of creating a brand of jammies that would help women get a betternight's sleep who are experiencing night sweats.
And as we know from being moms of kids, that happens a lot in pregnancy and postpartum,breastfeeding, all that.
(11:10):
The sweat, it's wild.
Your hormones are changing.
water, like you're shedding water, like all of those things.
And then now, years later, we're seeing this in like the para-menopausal state.
And so you had this vision of solving a problem, and I want to talk more about that, butthen you took the step to create a product, and then you took the step to brand the
(11:35):
product, and then you took the step to build a website so other people could access it.
And then you're putting yourself out there with marketing, and like every single one ofthose steps,
is to be celebrated.
But I think that sometimes the way that business is celebrated now, it's about how fastyou're growing and all of those things.
And that's a really masculine interpretation of contributing to the workforce andcontributing to the world.
(11:59):
And so I think that I admire so much that your presence of mind, they're like, OK, youknow what?
I'm not going to look towards the future about where I want to be and how I'm not thereand look at instead, what are the steps?
What are the goals?
What are the things that I took to get to this point so far and celebrate that?
And I think, you I look back and obviously at the end of day, you need to make money topay the bills, right?
(12:22):
So like to make it a viable business, yes, we have to have sales.
But I also look back and say, wow, we have, you know, over 350 women that are gettingbetter nights rest because of our pajamas.
You know, in six months we did that.
Like, wow, like that's amazing.
And that's the impact that I want to make with this company, right?
It's purpose driven for a, right?
It's to help with night sweats.
It's to help.
(12:42):
know, sleep is just so important, especially who we know as working moms.
It's like, if we could only sleep at all, right?
So just, yeah, if we're, if I'm able to play a little role in helping someone have betterrest, awesome.
And then on top of that, I knew when I started my own business that I wanted to have likea philanthropic component to it.
Like to me,
(13:04):
we can build business models that allow for that if you're starting it from the ground up.
So I did, right?
I built in this kickback.
So we partnered with a company called BabyQuest and we got to give our first donationcheck back to BabyQuest and just having the founder message me and be like, oh my
goodness, thank you.
So just a little insight about BabyQuest.
start with this, yeah, with baby quests.
So Baby Quest is an amazing nonprofit organization that gives fertility grants to couplesand people that cannot afford the journey to have a child, right?
(13:31):
So they help give grants for IVF, for surrogacy, for IUIs, like the things that Ipersonally had to deal with myself trying to conceive with both of my boys.
I was lucky I had a job with Great Benefits that actually had some coverage for there.
had to work, know, myself and my husband were both working and we had enough money tocover those bills, but a lot of families...
truly can't afford that they're taking out second mortgages to pay for IVF, they're takingout loans, or they just choose to, or they don't make the choice.
(13:57):
The choice is made for them.
They can't even go to that next step, right?
Which is just heart wrenching for me.
So no one should be denied the ability to have a family because they can't afford it.
It's just, it's just mind boggling to me.
So that's what BabyQuest is there for right now until insurance, until, you know, ourgovernment system can start to really figure this out and give the support that's needed
to.
these couples going through this or these women or even men that are looking for adoptionand surrogacy, BabyQuest comes in and kind of fills that gap in some way for right now.
(14:23):
And so just really proud to be a part of that and know that this business is not onlyhelping women sleep better, but we're also doing good on the back end too.
my gosh, I love that purpose-drivenness is giving back, making the world a better place,and just operating from that frequency in itself.
think the universe opens so many doors for you in that regard.
(14:44):
So thinking about your journey and your original vision with Piper and Mint, when did thatstart?
When did you first get the idea?
So really, I can't take credit for the original.
The OG came from my good friend Amelia.
So she and I both gave birth to our first children around the same time.
And we were just chatting about night sweats.
And it was something that I was experiencing.
(15:05):
I'd never read about it.
I mean, I read all the books too.
I mean, I had three years of going through fertility to read all the books that therewere.
And I still never read about it and didn't even hear about it from my OBGYN.
So her and I were chatting about it and she knows I'm in product development.
She knows I make products for a living.
she said, you know, there's got to be something out there.
And we looked and there wasn't.
(15:26):
And she's like, what if you can make pajamas that would help wick sweat away?
And that was nursing friendly.
Cause that was the other catch, right?
There was not pajamas that were checking all those boxes.
You know, her OB-GYN said like, wear a workout shirt or sleep on a towel.
And it's like, right, none of those are conducive to what you want to be doing whenyou're- the two hours that-
notice you have breast at it you have the snappy
(15:48):
They asked the clips.
Right, yep.
So it just wasn't functional, right?
And so we actually, even her and I went down the journey a little bit together for a whileand then life got in the way and we didn't end up doing much with it.
And then this was 11, 10 years ago, yeah.
And so fast forward, now I'm part owner of this manufacturing company.
I literally launch products for a living for other people.
(16:10):
And so every day I'm like stared in the face of these other people.
living their dream, watching their, you know, who are doing the thing.
And I'm like, why am I not doing it?
And so I went back to my friend Amelia and said, do you want it?
And she's like, you know what, you go for it.
Like I'm here, I'm gonna your biggest cheerleader, but you you go for it.
And so literally that was about probably three years ago, I started some heavy researchand development, finding the right fabric, finding the fits, getting some focus group
(16:35):
members, finding women in Facebook lactation groups.
I'm like, who's sweating?
I got some PJs for you to try.
And when I finally landed on the fabric,
I remember the one woman wrote me back and she goes, this is magical.
Like I have not slept through the night once.
And she was nine, 10 months postpartum and still sweating.
She was nursing, but her baby slept through the night, but she couldn't sleep through thenight because of the sweats.
(16:57):
So.
happens for those of you who haven't experienced this is like your case wet.
But then you wake up, sheets are wet or your pillowcase is wet.
And so then it's like, then you have to flip the pillow or do any of
she was taking showers in the of the night because she was so drenched.
And she goes, this was the first time I didn't have to take a shower.
(17:17):
And I was like, wow.
pajamas are wicking the sweat away, but then they're also quick dry.
So they're naturally, again, no like added chemicals for it.
It's just the yarns that we use are naturally moisture wicking, dry quickly.
And then the really special sauce, truly where the name comes from, Piper and Mint, isthat.
We use mint botanicals, they're infused in the yarns themselves.
(17:40):
So the yarns don't smell like mint, that's like our number one ask question.
But what mint is, it's a natural antibacterial from nature, so it cuts the odor.
So not only are you waking up dry because your pajamas have pulled the sweat away andquickly dried on you, but then the next morning you don't smell like you sweat all night,
which is also horrible to wake up in the morning and not be feeling your best.
(18:02):
And that can even be women that are breastfeeding and have...
know, milk spills at night while you're breastfeeding.
It's just a thing and you wake up and there's that smell of like dried breast milk.
I remember my first mom reached out and she goes, there's no dry breast milk smell.
Like I wake up and I haven't washed your pajamas.
She said in over two weeks, she's like, don't, don't, you know, don't get mad at me.
I'm like, no, that's great.
You know, and so those are all the added benefits of it, you know, as well was like thisodor component that just again, makes you feel a little bit more like, like a human,
(18:30):
right?
When you wake up.
how to actually seize.
One of the things that I am so struck by is the fact that for so long women's stories havebeen silenced.
And then when we do start telling stories, oftentimes we're retelling the stories thatwere taught to us a lot of times by men.
that's because we haven't had the space or the ability to stop and be like, is this true?
(18:53):
But one of those things when you think about reading the books,
when you have a conversation with other women in circle and say, my God, I'm sweating myass off.
And it's like, my God, me too, me too, me too, me too.
But it's not making its way into the literature.
And so to be seen and have a true story and a true experience and then a product that canhelp support it, like that's just amazing.
(19:14):
And I'm really excited.
think just in our world today, women's health is finally becoming a conversation, right?
I'm sure if it's not on your Instagram feed, I'm sorry, it probably will be afterlistening to this, but like menopause is kind of, know, is finally like having its moment,
right?
Parimenopause and also linking the things that we're going through in these journeys anddementia, right?
(19:37):
And like, so.
there's all these future health problems that are coming from us not talking about what'shappening to us right now, like at the age that we are at.
So I just think it's also really exciting to have a product, one that's like filling atrue need, but then also starting to see that there's other people starting to talk about
it as well, right?
And we're just one small piece of it, right?
(19:58):
There's so much to do within this space in regards to getting your hormones in check andall the things, but for me, these pajamas are like,
one piece of your toolbox, right, to get through these times.
And to be honest, even if you're not sweating, they're just really fucking comfortable.
can tell you this, well you know this, my daughter, my daughter is like a little, I don'tknow if I can say mini me.
(20:22):
Yes, she's a mini me.
And she loved my jammies so much and she feels big feelings.
And I'm proud of her for that because I kept my feelings small for a while.
Anyway, Jackie sent her a prototype of like a night, night shirt.
So now she wears it all the time and is obsessed and it's so cute.
(20:44):
And now we match.
So it's great.
And it's so soft and you get pillowcases that.
Yeah, they're in works.
They're in R &D.
I've been testing and my focus groupers are very excited about them.
And so, and that's the cool thing.
The fabrics.
Oh yeah, I got you girl.
Don't worry.
I got you.
We have new protos coming as soon as our good old Chinese new year when my factory shutsdown for a month.
(21:08):
It's real fun.
So they're in shutdown right now.
So when they open back up, you'll be the first on the list to get that next round.
I love it.
Thanks.
is huge.
so I just think about that journey of you had a vision.
You had a seed that was planted in you.
And it persisted.
And then eventually you listened.
And now look at all of the doors that is open for you.
(21:31):
Look at all of the connections that you've made.
And look at the world of possibilities.
You're innovating not just with this product, but then also podcasts and other thingswhere you can do to support people who are
who want to follow a similar path and have an idea about a product and want to bring it tolife and now you're helping to create a roadmap for them.
Yeah, it's been fun.
I I had always thought, I mean, I started businesses all growing up.
(21:53):
I always had something, I would call them hobbies.
In college, I got really serious and was actually selling a product that I had made tosome storefronts and whatnot, which was very cool.
But then, you know, did the corporate track and then now eventually made my way back overto the entrepreneurial side.
So it's really, again, back to who I am today is I'm the same girl that was sewing pursesin my basement.
You know, I'm just doing it now at the scale that I can afford to do it at and really haveit be meaningful.
(22:18):
to the world, which is exciting.
And you know you're paving the way for other people to do the same which is amazing.
So anyone out there who has an idea, plant it in their mind, find the way, take that firststep because that is how you change the world.
That's how you make an impact.
That's how you also start to tell true stories and change the narrative for people aroundyou who have had similar experiences who might not have been seen or who might not have
(22:41):
found their voice yet.
Yeah, yeah, and I think us as women, are visionaries, we are idea makers, right?
Like we see the problems, we're ultimate fixers, so.
We call this feminine energy, the creative, yes, the innovatious.
I would too.
Would you say that we need more feminine energy in the workplace or more masculine energy?
(23:05):
That's a silly question Ash.
Let's be real.
We know you can't say nothing about it.
sucks interview with Joe Rogan where he needs more masculine energy.
And just to go on a tangent for a second, like within each of us, we have masculine andfeminine energy.
And part of the reason why so many people are feeling off kilter or uncentered is becausethey're not tapping into their own masculine and feminine energy.
(23:29):
So I would say that we all need the, you know, we've got the feminine flow and thecreative.
And we need the boundaries and the follow through and the steps and all of those things.
And that kind of comes from the consistent masculine that's based on a 24 hour day cycle.
It's masculine energy represents the sun and that comes up and feminine energy is the moonand it's a longer cycle and has more flow and creativity.
(23:55):
We need both of those things.
However, when you look at how many people are not able to use their voice because theyhave not
been in a safe enough space to tell true stories.
That's where really the feminine energy has been so off balance for so many people, wherethe workplace has been allowed to take on a shape that is more serves one type of person.
(24:20):
so anyway, kudos to you for you did both.
had your feminine idea, your creativity, and you're putting that to test.
And you also are taking the steps to, with your masculine energy of action follow through.
setting goals and all of those things and it's really beautiful.
So one of the things that I think is so important about being a person alive today iscommunity and especially when it comes to working mothers and by working mothers I mean
(24:54):
women who are getting shit done, involved in their communities, balancing lots of thingsand I would say that most of us are.
even hesitate to just put this in the category of mothers, but people who are wearing lotsof hats in life, who are dreamers, who are trying to create things, who are trying to move
the needle on their lives, community is an essential part of it.
(25:19):
Surrounding yourself with like-minded people who see, have a similar world of you from theterms of not looking at people who look exactly like you or think exactly like you, but
are willing to like,
challenge you and help you expand your thinking and help uplift you.
Yeah, keep you going.
Yeah, and I think it's a balance between, you know, there's friend circles that can dothat.
(25:44):
But I also think if you are someone who truly is on the business side, it's important tohave both.
And I think both of those I really found a little bit later in my life.
And I'm so glad that on this entrepreneurial journey that I'm on that I found you when Idid, right?
Like, I mean, that was huge to be able to have, that's like,
(26:06):
Double bonus, right?
I have a friend and a woman in business who I can like go to and understand me and knowwhere I'm at and talk about, you know, the motherhood piece, right?
Like all the things.
First, the whole, the whole bit of it.
But then I also, mean, recently I'm actually here in Chicago because yesterday I was at myfirst, you know, entrepreneurial training session with this new group that I'm a part of
(26:29):
now where it is men and women who are in a certain level of.
business revenue size where we are like or way beyond where I'm at right now.
And I've never been in a room with people that were that, I mean, we literally sat and wewere joking.
We're like, my gosh, we're not the lone weirdo.
(26:49):
Like we're all being, we're all there together and we're not alone.
just, we feel alone in maybe our day-to-day network, right?
Because we are the entrepreneur, we are the visionary and you have a team.
amazing team below you but they're not you and there's a reason for that right that youneed both for that to work.
Well, it's interesting because it's just a different set of, I don't want to say problems,but a different set of thoughts and considerations that when you're running the business
(27:17):
and the responsibilities and the weight of that hits differently.
Yeah.
So when you walk into a room, I experienced this when I joined EO, the EntrepreneursOrganization.
I walked into my first event and I remember I brought my friend Macy to come with me and Iwas like, I grabbed her arm, was like.
my God, I found my people.
was just like, speak the same language.
Understand instantly the same problem.
(27:38):
Okay, how are you balancing work and home?
How are you figuring out the financial piece?
How are you helping make sure that your people don't hate you and then go on to leavereviews about you on every platform possibly because they hate you so much.
Truly, it's like, how do you balance all those things and then get resources foraccounting, how to structure your days and all of that.
(28:02):
It's like, it's so...
helpful to learn from each other and have that mindset of like gut someone got to keep it.
Hey, have you thought about it?
Yeah, and I think what's cool about, again, at least this business group that I'm at,people are at all different spectrums of their business right now, right?
There are people in this group that have done the things and they are like building thisfreedom lifestyle where they now have, you know, team members running this and that for
(28:25):
them.
And so I can look at them and say, oh, you can do your business that way.
And they're doing it, right?
And you can look at someone who's just a little bit more like a couple steps behind me,right?
And so it's really interesting.
to say we're all very like-minded people, but we're at different parts in our businessjourney.
And just the conversation, I had a lunchtime conversation and an inter-time conversation,and all of a sudden my mind is completely blowing up in the best way, because it's things
(28:49):
that, again, maybe listening to that, you ask me all the time, is this fear that you'refeeling, or is it really a no?
Is it a no because you don't want to, or is it a fear?
so much I'm realizing, I think, is fear-based and not a hard no.
It's afraid of, I really do it?
And then it's like, have these people looking at me saying, you've done it.
(29:11):
Like, what do you mean, can you do it?
You did it.
So now if you wanna do the next, like go for it, right?
And that there's an opportunity.
Someone there who can like hold up a mirror to you and be like, hi.
Yeah.
And I think about this, actually, on episode one of season two, I talked a little bitabout our time together a couple of years ago when we both went and we like spent the
(29:34):
night at a hotel.
We printed out Rebecca Campbell's Work Your Light vision book for, you know, reflecting onthe previous year.
And then.
setting intentions and goals for the following year.
Yeah.
And what was so cool about doing that with you was that you would say like, okay, well Idid, I'm gonna you as an example, but you did the same for me.
(29:57):
Whereas like, you're like, okay, well I just like only did this thing and this thing andthis thing and this and I don't know, I don't think I will.
And then I was like, Jackie, what the fuck are you talking about?
You did this?
You did that?
Remember this thing that you overcame?
And my God, and what about this?
Yeah,
I'll do those things.
And you did the same thing for me.
And it was so validating to be like, wait, hang on.
(30:19):
Let's not focus so much on the things we didn't do.
Let's focus on the things that we did do.
And remember to celebrate all those milestones.
But also, just to have someone there who's cheering you on and saying, hey, remember, thisis the thing that you accomplished that you kind of dusted onto the rug because maybe you
didn't have anyone to celebrate it with.
Or maybe you just had to run to soccer practice with kids.
(30:41):
You didn't get a chance to acknowledge it.
But to stop and say,
yes, I made things happen.
And what's also cool about that, I told you this, I brought that book back out justrecently and I read back through it and I was like, hell yeah.
Like the things that I had set out for myself, you I had certain timelines again that Ihad put on these ideal timelines.
(31:01):
I'll call it for 2024 or 2023 at the time I think it was.
And looking back, I mean, some yes got accomplished in 2023, but I would say almost everysingle thing I had on there by the end of like this past year had worked its way out, you
know?
And I just think that's,
So such an important reminder, like writing things down, like we had to physically writein a book.
(31:22):
It wasn't typed, it wasn't, you know, a voice memo note, like it was our hand to a pen topaper, right?
And even in my training yesterday, they basically said, put your computers away.
Like we are writing things down.
Then you can transfer it to your computer, transfer it however you want, but that's justthat physical act of writing and paper and grounding and just like.
(31:46):
That's a different press puts it in your brain differently, right?
Like there's like science aid
in the universe in a way that's like really intentional and you can come back to andreference and have yourself accountable for and all of those things.
It's a really beautiful thing.
So now you are balancing a brand new baby startup that's so wonderful and so exciting.
(32:06):
Everyone needs to go buy Piper Mint Jammy.
Not your sweatener.
And can't wait for the pillowcases.
So we'll make sure to share the links there.
You're also a managing partner of a
massive business that continues to grow and blow things out of the water and you'rekicking ass there and you're leading in a way that is heart-centric and using your voice
(32:27):
and that's amazing.
You're also a mom.
So what are some of the things that you do to stay centered and focused and that lose yourshit in all of the different, to be a whole person all the time?
Yeah, it's hard.
I will say that, you as I work on my business, my business has granted me some luxuries ofoutsourcing certain things that I used to have to do all myself, right?
(32:52):
So even down to as simple as, you know, now I have someone deliver some lunch meals to mefor the week versus me spending three hours on a Sunday prepping.
And that's now three hours I can go spend with my kids and we'll go do something fun.
So I do think when you can, and even outsourcing could be like running high school.
kids and students that wanna help have some exposure to things, right?
So I'm trying to be, make sure I'm working on the things that I actually need me to be,need me for it.
(33:17):
And for the other things, I'm pushing things down to my team.
I'm trying to find people outside of my network that can help support me.
But it's saying, I've gotten a lot better about saying like, it can wait to some emails,it can wait to some customers, it can wait to even some of my team members to be honest.
Obviously I'm always there and they know if the house is burning down, like they can textme and I will always answer them.
(33:42):
But I think setting up some more boundaries has been really helpful for me coming in atnight and trying to make sure I am putting my phone away when the boys are around, you
know, and I still get caught, trust me.
There is a lot of work, you know, still to be done.
But I think setting up those boundaries and also taking time, like I go, I playcompetitive tennis and that is something that I do for me.
(34:04):
and I enjoy it and we are undefeated and we are gonna be going to districts again andhopefully states again.
And like, that's a fun thing as an adult to get back into competition in a different way,right?
But I know that if I don't do that time for me, it's harder for me to show up the best foreverybody else.
So I think it's just really prioritizing and then having to say no.
say no to a lot more things than I ever used to.
(34:26):
Again, I think that's the people pleaser in me.
would be like, yes, I can do it.
Yes, I can do it.
And now I'm like, no, if it's not like a...
Someone says, it's not a hell yeah, it's like a fuck no.
Like that's something that my coach taught me last year.
Like if you're not feeling, if it's a should, shut it.
If it's a want, that's a different story.
So again, it's all these little, little things that have just added up to me being able toorganize and have more, you know, meaningful moments with people.
(34:52):
And I believe with my kids.
I really believe it's quality, not quantity to be honest.
Like I, if I have to go to a work meeting, like I don't feel guilty about that.
Like I know I'm doing that for a reason.
It's not just to get away, it's to go build my business bigger, right?
But you know, we're going on a ski trip this weekend and I'm not gonna chuck my work onMonday.
We're gonna be skiing instead.
So I've just, again, set some boundaries up, I think in a much more productive way than Iever have in the past.
(35:14):
And I still have so much more opportunity to keep doing that.
And I'm really actually excited about that, to keep building those boundaries and keepbuilding.
You know, there's no balance.
It's integration, especially as an entrepreneur.
So it's just where does that lie?
Where does some things start and stop and making sure that when I'm at the business, I'mgiving focus to the business.
When I'm with my kids, I'm being focused to my kids.
And when and how that shows up, I'm not so concerned about that.
(35:38):
It's just making sure that I'm intentional when I'm there and that people feel likethey're being seen by me, right?
And that I'm not being scatterbrained and distracted.
No, I love that.
And especially the competitive tennis parts.
It's like finding hobbies and all those things is so important.
I think I told you that I just started singing less.
Amazing, I'm so happy for you that you are doing that for yourself.
(36:02):
Because right, that is for you.
That is for you and yourself and it brings you joy and.
still the same five year old girl in the inside.
I just sing and perform and all of that and it's showing up until the
to see you with your guitar on Hinsdale Central stage doing, know, wild horses and beinglike, I just remember looking at you up there and being like, it's fucking awesome.
(36:26):
Like so cool.
Like you're just such a rock star.
So I'm so glad you're, you know, coming back to that.
I mean, I know you've always been, you know, you'll sing here and there, but reallyactually committing and saying, no, like I want to hone in on this passion and skill of
mine, which you have an amazing talent for anyways.
Like I just think it's wonderful.
Thank you, yes, I love it and it's interesting to me because some of the things that I'mlearning through going back to singing lessons are things like, okay, it's a lot of breath
(36:55):
work, it's somatics, and like, okay, where are you placing things in your body and howyou're letting it out?
I feel so much like, my God, this is kind of like all of the things that I did to get awayfrom myself and all of the tools that I found to come back to it through
breath and sound healing and other things and then it's like putting these pieces backtogether now and like the last frontier is like singing again.
(37:21):
my gosh, it's so cool.
So who knows what I'll do with it or nothing.
Yeah.
And maybe I would just go.
I mean, I'm not going to like join the- I mean, yes, you- let's be real, I gotcha.
But I think that that's an important takeaway too is like remembering that like in all ofit, like when I first started Yakity Yak, Yak Yak is my content marketing agency, been in
(37:43):
business for over 10 years, multi seven figure business.
And when I started it, I didn't know, I didn't have a road book.
didn't have, I wore every single hat.
I can say that I have literally done every single job in the company to this day can saythat.
And when I first started, that was a,
I was like, I'm working so hard.
(38:05):
working all these.
And I thought that was cool.
I that was something to be celebrated.
That I was working to the point of burnout, that I was doing all of those things.
honestly, it's taken a really, really long time to dismantle that mindset within myselfand to make sure that I'm trusting my team.
I need reminders sometimes to be like, no, we got it.
We hate you on this.
(38:25):
that there doesn't, you don't need to fill all of the roles, that that is actually a verymasculine mindset.
Instead it's like, build trust, build the right people, delegate appropriately, andcelebrate them for what they bring in.
And it makes life so much easier as an entrepreneur.
(38:45):
those of you who are starting out, there's so many amazing tools right now, like from AI,from email, from meeting schedule systems, and so many things that didn't exist
necessarily when I was getting started, but they do exist now.
and can buy you back your time, can buy you back your freedom so that you can be a wholeperson.
And a whole person isn't a workaholic, a whole person isn't just a mom who is only focusedon her children.
(39:10):
Like there needs to be room for the things that light you up, like tennis, like making adifference in the world, like girlfriends, connections, all those things, singing lessons,
whatever it may be.
Because when you have space, then it allows...
Like the universe brings you so many new things to respond to that might take you down apath that is the life of your dreams.
(39:33):
I and I think it's okay to not be there for everything for others.
I've gotten to a point where sometimes my tennis will come foot with a football game and Igo to tennis because if I don't go to tennis, I'm not gonna show up the next day for my
family in the same way.
If I have nothing for myself and I'm only just giving, giving, at some point that willdrain my battery, it will.
(40:00):
So I think it's that balance of making sure
or sorry, not balance, like just understanding that it's okay to choose you.
And that so many, that any flack that you get for that is not a true story.
It's someone else who decided that that's not how mothers should be.
that's not how business owners should be.
(40:23):
But when you examine it, it's not the truth.
So mom guilt is, yes, it's real.
Like, yes, so many of us would prefer to be with our kids over...
working late to make ends meet, all those things.
And it comes from a huge state of privilege, sometimes to have the choice.
But noting that we get to take agency over our destiny and it's okay to have space to be,to make a difference.
(40:52):
Life doesn't just stop when you have children and the impact that you can make in theworld can be vast and continuous and it can work in conjunction with motherhood,
entrepreneurship, having
a day job, having all those things and just figuring out, like listening to that likelittle nudge inside of you that says like, okay, I've got an idea, I've got something I
(41:14):
want to do.
I got to listen to it because the longer you don't listen to it, the more the universewill start dropping these absolute disrupting bombs on you and your friends.
Take the next step.
And I think it's modeling it for the children, for my children too, right?
Like they see, they see me taking time when I need it for myself and that's okay.
Right.
And I hope that they will do the same thing for themselves as they get older and, andthey're, you know, navigating their journey.
(41:39):
So I think it's, I think it's again, it, models both ways too.
I think hopefully I'm, mean, So, well, same Z girl, same Z.
Thank you.
So now a few things here.
Yeah.
Thinking about this in terms of like what we're modeling for our kids.
I think we're also modeling for each other as women.
(42:02):
And this over the last couple of years you and I both gone through like tons of highs andlows together as you've been building your business.
I've been going through changes and building new businesses and building new things.
And I think that what is so interesting is that
oftentimes I'll be high and then maybe you'll be going through something and I can holdspace for you and look at you.
(42:22):
then vice versa, sometimes we're both just like, what the fuck?
Life is hard.
Yeah, I think that we, I noticed myself especially in the pandemic and the yearsimmediately following the pandemic that I would just like kind of isolate and not go to
people for help because I was kind of like, we'd been forced in this situation where wewere doing things all by ourselves.
(42:45):
And so as we reconnected in each other's lives and you become just such an important partof mine, I was reminded how vital it is to pick up the phone and call someone and leave a
voice note.
It's like, hey, I'm working through this thing right now.
(43:09):
Hey, I'm not in a great place.
Or hey, what's going on with you and checking in?
Yes.
Check.
and with your girlfriends.
It can change your life.
Yes, and again, I am, as Ashley already mentioned, voice memos are like my new goal for2025 is like send as many voice memos as I can, but I just think, doesn't everyone light
(43:32):
up when they hear their friend's voice?
Even if it's just on a recording and I know we all hate leaving cell phone recordings,like those don't leave me one of those, but send me a voice memo all day, so.
I just think, again, even if it's just a check-in of thinking of you all, right?
Because we think of our friends all the time, but we don't always tell each othernecessarily that we're thinking of each other, right?
Especially for us where we're not in the same city.
So we don't get to see each other that same way that you might see other people.
(43:55):
So yes, check in with friends if you're having a shitty day.
It's okay to tell someone that, especially someone who's in your safe circle, right?
Because they're gonna know what you, they might, you might not even know what you need,but they might, right?
Or then they're just there to say, hey, I hear you, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
know, just to be that.
(44:16):
We're not alone.
All of us, listening men or women, you're not alone.
And to find people who you can count on, to find people you can relate to, to find peopleyou can connect to, because together we are so much stronger.
And as human beings, it's in our DNA to build connection.
And we have gotten into these habits of being in super burnout cycles where we don'thave...
(44:39):
space for it.
I know for a long period of time, the first people that I would cancel out would be mygirlfriends, even though they're the ones that uplifted me the most.
so I've been really making a conscious effort to say, no, like, this is, I'm going to feelmore uplifted.
maybe also it's not just what I feel, but it's like, maybe I can uplift someone else who'sgoing through something.
(45:01):
And just remember, like, this myopic kind of view that we sort of had to adopt duringpandemic and post pandemic.
doesn't exist anymore.
So find your people, find your community, lean on them and hold space for them and thenlet them hold space for you.
Because what happens then is you get new ideas, you get new suggestions, you meet newpeople, you get new experiences and all of those are the way of feeling supported so that
(45:30):
you can go on and do the thing in this world that you are meant to do.
And I'll say just real quickly, I have found some of my closest friendships much later inlife, right?
Like, I mean, I love, or they've come back full circle from earlier in life, right?
So I have it on both sides, but there's relationships that I've met literally in the pastone to two years with a young woman who I'm like, my gosh, like we knew each other in a
(45:55):
life past for sure.
And then we had crossover and loose circles.
And now she's back in my life, we're back in each other's lives and like.
You know, I can't imagine my life without her in it for the rest of it, right?
So I think sometimes don't think that because you're of a certain age, you can't find newbest friends because you can't.
I mean, we're a perfect example of that, right?
You know, it's just so, it's so cool.
(46:16):
never.
was like a little too rebellious in high school for Jackie.
I was voted class grandma, if you don't remember that.
I was by a bedazzled senior shirt.
So yeah, I was a little straight lace, let's say, but I've come a long way from that too.
No, you haven't.
Darn it.
no, but you do an amazing thing.
(46:37):
Let me ask you a question.
What are you doing to show up in the world unapologetically?
I think I kind of started off with the podcast this way.
Like I am just really trusting my gut and not just trusting it, but then speaking it,right?
Speaking my truth, not letting what in my brain might be saying, I don't know.
(46:59):
Like, should you really say that?
Right?
That like little, like that voice is, I can gently pick it up and put it down and say,okay, I hear that voice, but I'm gonna,
do what's right for me.
I'm gonna step into my truth.
So I think every day that I can show up and start, again, being more of my authentic selfon the outside, as I said, right?
(47:19):
The feelings have always been there, but really being able to speak my truth in any aspectof my life.
I think that's my way of really just stepping out into the world the most unapologeticallyway for me.
Bye.
I'm so glad that you are.
How can people find you?
So they can follow at on Instagram at Piper and Mint P-I-P-E-R A-N-D-M-I-N-T.
We also have a website www.piperandmint.com.
(47:42):
So those are probably the best ways I'm on there.
that's been a whole nother thing, right?
That could be a whole nother podcast.
But yes, I am out in social in a major way that I never have been before.
So that's been its own growing pains.
But yeah, that's the best way to reach me.
Send me a DM, we're super active.
We love chatting and hearing from people.
So excited to connect with you.
(48:03):
Awesome, thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate everyone who tuned in.
Jackie, it's been such a pleasure.
And I'm just grateful to have you in the seat and in the studio.
And I know you're gonna go on and make a huge impact in the world.
Keep doing all the things.
Thank you.
I am Ashley, this is Jackie, and we are unapologetically yours.
Hello and welcome to the Unapologetically Yours podcast.
I'm your host Ashley Logan and this is a place where we go deep on everything fromspirituality to relationship and connection to business and belief system because in a
world when we've been taught to play by the rules, it's time to live a little bitunapologetically.
For those of you who are tuning in for the first time, I am a mother of three, anentrepreneur.
(00:25):
I am also very deep in somatic.
practices from sound healing to breath work and have basically made it a point tore-examine every system that I built my life on over the last couple of years to start to
(00:45):
find truth and start to treat myself like a whole person instead of a fragmented personwearing the hat of mother, wearing the hat of wife, wearing the hat of business owner and
all of the things.
This adventure has taken me on a journey of bringing people from my past back into mylife, opening doors to new connections.
(01:09):
And I have to say that when you live a life that is fully aligned, the universe starts towork so much in your favor.
So with that, I want to introduce our guest today, who is a friend of mine that we metwhen we are 14 years old.
And then we're always friends and always cheering each other on from a distance.
(01:32):
But then really it was in the pandemic when we were both entrepreneurs figuring out life,figuring out business and realized that we really had sort of a gap in the space of
someone who really understood what it was like to run a business, what it meant to be amother and what it meant to wear all of these hats at once.
(01:52):
while also
paying attention to our spirituality, taking care of ourselves, making time for fun andpleasure and all of those things.
So without further ado, I want to introduce Jackie Hudson.
Thank you Ash, I'm so happy to be here.
So for background, Jackie is a managing partner of a company called Atrium, and she cantell you all about that company that she, like a total badass, bought into when it was at
(02:18):
roughly $4 million in revenue.
She has helped grow it to over $30 million in revenue.
She's a mother of two awesome, super high energy boys.
She is an entrepreneur in so many ways, from real estate investment to her latest project,Piper and Mint.
which is a company that provides pajamas that are moisture wicking for women who arebreastfeeding or in menopause to help combat those pesky night sweats that we all know a
(02:51):
thing or two about as women.
She wears a million hats in her life and also manages to show up as a friend.
as a mentor for others and a constant learner of the world.
So I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
So tell us, Jackie, with all of the hats that you wear, who are you today?
(03:16):
man, that's a really good question.
I think I am most authentic, I'm the most authentic version of myself that I've ever beenin my whole life.
think I always, I'm the same person on the inside, but I think the outside version of meis now matching that, right?
The thoughts and feelings that I've had, the way that my heart has led, I think I amdefinitely a people pleaser.
(03:41):
And so it's been a life of maybe,
thinking a lot of things and wanting to say a lot of things, but always being concernedabout others and how it's gonna come off where now I feel like I finally stepped into my
full truth.
And I will, you know, it still comes from my heart.
You know, I'm gonna still approach these things, but I'm not afraid to say the thinganymore.
I'm really been doing a lot of work thanks to you from an amazing, you know, women'sretreat that we had a couple years ago, a year and a half ago by now, but it's just really
(04:11):
been a journey of working on
my inner self and really letting that be what you see on the outside as well, right?
Not just this facade, not just, you know, part of me, but the whole me and bringing thatwhole me to work.
And that's okay, right?
And bringing the whole me into my marriage and that's okay, right?
And so people are getting, I almost think people are going to to know like a new versionof me these days.
(04:33):
And it's really exciting to be able to show up that way and just, again, have such aweight.
Like I never realized how.
I carried things on my shoulders to be honest by keeping those thoughts and feelingsinside.
yeah, again, I'm the same fifth grader that sold my Beanie Babies for $5,000 back in theday that I was, you know, it's just, I'm selling different things now, I guess.
(04:58):
So again, lot of the essence of who I am and how I approach life and things is definitelythe same, but I just feel like I've really come into my voice as a Voight.
I love that and I've seen that and had got to have a front row seats.
You do and but the truth is is that as women I think and especially as mothers and and inthe business world we're sort of taught to operate a certain way and be a be in a certain
(05:22):
energy and one I've talked about this a lot in season one like when you enter theworkforce, you've got to show up and Be professional and do all the things.
Yeah
And I guess going even a letter level deeper on that, you kind of mimic the masculine wayof doing business.
And that can be really tough as an empathetic heart led leader, then you start to try tofit yourself in a box where you're not maybe saying the things that are on your mind or
(05:50):
doing the things that you know in your heart are right.
But I'm here to say and can bear witness to you who've done this, that by doing thosethings and being your full self in business, it,
how far you've gotten.
What you've managed to do, look at the team that you've built and how you're more inalignment, which creates more ease and flow in every area of
(06:12):
And it's still a process, right?
Like I am on this journey.
I can look back and see where I've come from and I can be so proud of myself.
And then I can also look ahead and say, okay, like here's where I still need to do somemore work, right?
And still continue to gain that confidence and still continue to be rooted in my, youknow, my gut.
(06:33):
I've always had right gut and seeing people say that, but like I truly, feel it there andjust leaning into that and knowing that.
God, the universe like has my back and I will bet on myself.
I always say, if you're gonna bet on anybody, like bet on yourself, right?
And that's what I did with buying into Atrium.
And so I think that trusting that feeling and then actually doing action off of it, notjust saying, it's there, but, it's there, but, and then listening to all the noises around
(07:00):
me versus being like, it's there.
I need to now move my feet to do what my body's telling me, you what it's feeling.
So again, those are like.
Big aha moments for me, know?
Again, thanks to you.
And all, again, like breath work was like a life-changing experience for me.
I'd never done anything like that.
And then all of a sudden it was just like, holy shit, like what is coming out of me isjust, you know, like years of just pent up emotions, you know, and feelings that were
(07:30):
real, but I just didn't have the confidence or, you know, I don't even know, not theknowledge, but just.
Yeah, I think it really was like the confidence to say it, you know, and really sharethose feelings.
Yeah, it's so true.
mean, and like once you see the truth about yourself and your potential, it's really hardto unsee it.
Yeah.
It's going down the path of doing that inner work can be scary because it's like you'reforced to look in the mirror.
(07:57):
You're forced to then reconcile the things that don't fit any longer.
And also,
You know, it takes an element of courage to then make the change, but then when you havethe tools to know that you're supported, and especially when have a community of people
around you who are cheering for you, that makes a huge difference too.
Yeah, I mean, I think my girl chat that I have with you and some other fellow like badassbusiness friends, when tough days come for sure, right?
(08:23):
And sometimes when I'm just, especially, I'm part of this very large scale business, whichis awesome, but I also have passions in other places.
And so I launched, as you mentioned, my own product brand last year and very differentworld, right?
I'm living in one.
mass manufacturing, scaling, working with big retailers.
And then I'm starting from literally zero followers and making my own product, you know,and trying to balance, you know, the budget with the minimums and all the things that come
(08:52):
with manufacturing a product.
so, you know, some days are like, shit, like, this, am I really doing this?
You know, is this really worth it?
And then it just takes like one minute or one pep text back from your friend being like,you're killing it girl.
And I'm like, you're right.
Like I literally started from zero.
And again,
looking back on where I started versus always having this like goal or target, cause I'mvery goal oriented and I set big lofty goals.
(09:15):
But if I'm always looking ahead, I realized I was feeling like a failure cause I wasn'tthere yet where I'm really trying to tell myself like, look back, turn around and see
where you started this journey.
And then it's like, yeah, girl, like we're moving, you know, like we've made progress.
So I think living in that like dichotomy now of like two very different businesses hasbeen very.
humbling in a great way for me to say like, it's okay, like growth takes time.
(09:39):
It's not gonna be overnight.
But again, as long as I'm knowing that we're progressing, like I'm moving in the rightdirection, you know?
Yeah.
I love that so much.
I think that I need to go to touch back on a couple of different things.
Like when it comes to, I think, being a entrepreneur, it takes courage, of course, andguts to put yourself out there to create something, to share something that you've birthed
(10:06):
in the world.
And it also takes guts to lead a team and requires compassion and heart and businesssense.
And so that you're striking that balance between like,
margins, profits, people, and the mission, and being a mission-driven business.
And so many women today are starting these incredible mission-driven businesses.
(10:27):
And when you're measuring yourself against the matrix of patriarchal capitalism, whereit's like growth, all of these things are deep in performance, it's hard to sit in the
present and say, you know what?
I did something amazing.
I created a
And so now let's shift and talk a little bit about Piper and Nitten.
(10:49):
So you had this vision of creating a brand of jammies that would help women get a betternight's sleep who are experiencing night sweats.
And as we know from being moms of kids, that happens a lot in pregnancy and postpartum,breastfeeding, all that.
(11:10):
The sweat, it's wild.
Your hormones are changing.
water, like you're shedding water, like all of those things.
And then now, years later, we're seeing this in like the para-menopausal state.
And so you had this vision of solving a problem, and I want to talk more about that, butthen you took the step to create a product, and then you took the step to brand the
(11:35):
product, and then you took the step to build a website so other people could access it.
And then you're putting yourself out there with marketing, and like every single one ofthose steps,
is to be celebrated.
But I think that sometimes the way that business is celebrated now, it's about how fastyou're growing and all of those things.
And that's a really masculine interpretation of contributing to the workforce andcontributing to the world.
(11:59):
And so I think that I admire so much that your presence of mind, they're like, OK, youknow what?
I'm not going to look towards the future about where I want to be and how I'm not thereand look at instead, what are the steps?
What are the goals?
What are the things that I took to get to this point so far and celebrate that?
And I think, you I look back and obviously at the end of day, you need to make money topay the bills, right?
(12:22):
So like to make it a viable business, yes, we have to have sales.
But I also look back and say, wow, we have, you know, over 350 women that are gettingbetter nights rest because of our pajamas.
You know, in six months we did that.
Like, wow, like that's amazing.
And that's the impact that I want to make with this company, right?
It's purpose driven for a, right?
It's to help with night sweats.
It's to help.
(12:42):
know, sleep is just so important, especially who we know as working moms.
It's like, if we could only sleep at all, right?
So just, yeah, if we're, if I'm able to play a little role in helping someone have betterrest, awesome.
And then on top of that, I knew when I started my own business that I wanted to have likea philanthropic component to it.
Like to me,
(13:04):
we can build business models that allow for that if you're starting it from the ground up.
So I did, right?
I built in this kickback.
So we partnered with a company called BabyQuest and we got to give our first donationcheck back to BabyQuest and just having the founder message me and be like, oh my
goodness, thank you.
So just a little insight about BabyQuest.
start with this, yeah, with baby quests.
So Baby Quest is an amazing nonprofit organization that gives fertility grants to couplesand people that cannot afford the journey to have a child, right?
(13:31):
So they help give grants for IVF, for surrogacy, for IUIs, like the things that Ipersonally had to deal with myself trying to conceive with both of my boys.
I was lucky I had a job with Great Benefits that actually had some coverage for there.
had to work, know, myself and my husband were both working and we had enough money tocover those bills, but a lot of families...
truly can't afford that they're taking out second mortgages to pay for IVF, they're takingout loans, or they just choose to, or they don't make the choice.
(13:57):
The choice is made for them.
They can't even go to that next step, right?
Which is just heart wrenching for me.
So no one should be denied the ability to have a family because they can't afford it.
It's just, it's just mind boggling to me.
So that's what BabyQuest is there for right now until insurance, until, you know, ourgovernment system can start to really figure this out and give the support that's needed
to.
these couples going through this or these women or even men that are looking for adoptionand surrogacy, BabyQuest comes in and kind of fills that gap in some way for right now.
(14:23):
And so just really proud to be a part of that and know that this business is not onlyhelping women sleep better, but we're also doing good on the back end too.
my gosh, I love that purpose-drivenness is giving back, making the world a better place,and just operating from that frequency in itself.
think the universe opens so many doors for you in that regard.
(14:44):
So thinking about your journey and your original vision with Piper and Mint, when did thatstart?
When did you first get the idea?
So really, I can't take credit for the original.
The OG came from my good friend Amelia.
So she and I both gave birth to our first children around the same time.
And we were just chatting about night sweats.
And it was something that I was experiencing.
(15:05):
I'd never read about it.
I mean, I read all the books too.
I mean, I had three years of going through fertility to read all the books that therewere.
And I still never read about it and didn't even hear about it from my OBGYN.
So her and I were chatting about it and she knows I'm in product development.
She knows I make products for a living.
she said, you know, there's got to be something out there.
And we looked and there wasn't.
(15:26):
And she's like, what if you can make pajamas that would help wick sweat away?
And that was nursing friendly.
Cause that was the other catch, right?
There was not pajamas that were checking all those boxes.
You know, her OB-GYN said like, wear a workout shirt or sleep on a towel.
And it's like, right, none of those are conducive to what you want to be doing whenyou're- the two hours that-
notice you have breast at it you have the snappy
(15:48):
They asked the clips.
Right, yep.
So it just wasn't functional, right?
And so we actually, even her and I went down the journey a little bit together for a whileand then life got in the way and we didn't end up doing much with it.
And then this was 11, 10 years ago, yeah.
And so fast forward, now I'm part owner of this manufacturing company.
I literally launch products for a living for other people.
(16:10):
And so every day I'm like stared in the face of these other people.
living their dream, watching their, you know, who are doing the thing.
And I'm like, why am I not doing it?
And so I went back to my friend Amelia and said, do you want it?
And she's like, you know what, you go for it.
Like I'm here, I'm gonna your biggest cheerleader, but you you go for it.
And so literally that was about probably three years ago, I started some heavy researchand development, finding the right fabric, finding the fits, getting some focus group
(16:35):
members, finding women in Facebook lactation groups.
I'm like, who's sweating?
I got some PJs for you to try.
And when I finally landed on the fabric,
I remember the one woman wrote me back and she goes, this is magical.
Like I have not slept through the night once.
And she was nine, 10 months postpartum and still sweating.
She was nursing, but her baby slept through the night, but she couldn't sleep through thenight because of the sweats.
(16:57):
So.
happens for those of you who haven't experienced this is like your case wet.
But then you wake up, sheets are wet or your pillowcase is wet.
And so then it's like, then you have to flip the pillow or do any of
she was taking showers in the of the night because she was so drenched.
And she goes, this was the first time I didn't have to take a shower.
(17:17):
And I was like, wow.
pajamas are wicking the sweat away, but then they're also quick dry.
So they're naturally, again, no like added chemicals for it.
It's just the yarns that we use are naturally moisture wicking, dry quickly.
And then the really special sauce, truly where the name comes from, Piper and Mint, isthat.
We use mint botanicals, they're infused in the yarns themselves.
(17:40):
So the yarns don't smell like mint, that's like our number one ask question.
But what mint is, it's a natural antibacterial from nature, so it cuts the odor.
So not only are you waking up dry because your pajamas have pulled the sweat away andquickly dried on you, but then the next morning you don't smell like you sweat all night,
which is also horrible to wake up in the morning and not be feeling your best.
(18:02):
And that can even be women that are breastfeeding and have...
know, milk spills at night while you're breastfeeding.
It's just a thing and you wake up and there's that smell of like dried breast milk.
I remember my first mom reached out and she goes, there's no dry breast milk smell.
Like I wake up and I haven't washed your pajamas.
She said in over two weeks, she's like, don't, don't, you know, don't get mad at me.
I'm like, no, that's great.
You know, and so those are all the added benefits of it, you know, as well was like thisodor component that just again, makes you feel a little bit more like, like a human,
(18:30):
right?
When you wake up.
how to actually seize.
One of the things that I am so struck by is the fact that for so long women's stories havebeen silenced.
And then when we do start telling stories, oftentimes we're retelling the stories thatwere taught to us a lot of times by men.
that's because we haven't had the space or the ability to stop and be like, is this true?
(18:53):
But one of those things when you think about reading the books,
when you have a conversation with other women in circle and say, my God, I'm sweating myass off.
And it's like, my God, me too, me too, me too, me too.
But it's not making its way into the literature.
And so to be seen and have a true story and a true experience and then a product that canhelp support it, like that's just amazing.
(19:14):
And I'm really excited.
think just in our world today, women's health is finally becoming a conversation, right?
I'm sure if it's not on your Instagram feed, I'm sorry, it probably will be afterlistening to this, but like menopause is kind of, know, is finally like having its moment,
right?
Parimenopause and also linking the things that we're going through in these journeys anddementia, right?
(19:37):
And like, so.
there's all these future health problems that are coming from us not talking about what'shappening to us right now, like at the age that we are at.
So I just think it's also really exciting to have a product, one that's like filling atrue need, but then also starting to see that there's other people starting to talk about
it as well, right?
And we're just one small piece of it, right?
(19:58):
There's so much to do within this space in regards to getting your hormones in check andall the things, but for me, these pajamas are like,
one piece of your toolbox, right, to get through these times.
And to be honest, even if you're not sweating, they're just really fucking comfortable.
can tell you this, well you know this, my daughter, my daughter is like a little, I don'tknow if I can say mini me.
(20:22):
Yes, she's a mini me.
And she loved my jammies so much and she feels big feelings.
And I'm proud of her for that because I kept my feelings small for a while.
Anyway, Jackie sent her a prototype of like a night, night shirt.
So now she wears it all the time and is obsessed and it's so cute.
(20:44):
And now we match.
So it's great.
And it's so soft and you get pillowcases that.
Yeah, they're in works.
They're in R &D.
I've been testing and my focus groupers are very excited about them.
And so, and that's the cool thing.
The fabrics.
Oh yeah, I got you girl.
Don't worry.
I got you.
We have new protos coming as soon as our good old Chinese new year when my factory shutsdown for a month.
(21:08):
It's real fun.
So they're in shutdown right now.
So when they open back up, you'll be the first on the list to get that next round.
I love it.
Thanks.
is huge.
so I just think about that journey of you had a vision.
You had a seed that was planted in you.
And it persisted.
And then eventually you listened.
And now look at all of the doors that is open for you.
(21:31):
Look at all of the connections that you've made.
And look at the world of possibilities.
You're innovating not just with this product, but then also podcasts and other thingswhere you can do to support people who are
who want to follow a similar path and have an idea about a product and want to bring it tolife and now you're helping to create a roadmap for them.
Yeah, it's been fun.
I I had always thought, I mean, I started businesses all growing up.
(21:53):
I always had something, I would call them hobbies.
In college, I got really serious and was actually selling a product that I had made tosome storefronts and whatnot, which was very cool.
But then, you know, did the corporate track and then now eventually made my way back overto the entrepreneurial side.
So it's really, again, back to who I am today is I'm the same girl that was sewing pursesin my basement.
You know, I'm just doing it now at the scale that I can afford to do it at and really haveit be meaningful.
(22:18):
to the world, which is exciting.
And you know you're paving the way for other people to do the same which is amazing.
So anyone out there who has an idea, plant it in their mind, find the way, take that firststep because that is how you change the world.
That's how you make an impact.
That's how you also start to tell true stories and change the narrative for people aroundyou who have had similar experiences who might not have been seen or who might not have
(22:41):
found their voice yet.
Yeah, yeah, and I think us as women, are visionaries, we are idea makers, right?
Like we see the problems, we're ultimate fixers, so.
We call this feminine energy, the creative, yes, the innovatious.
I would too.
Would you say that we need more feminine energy in the workplace or more masculine energy?
(23:05):
That's a silly question Ash.
Let's be real.
We know you can't say nothing about it.
sucks interview with Joe Rogan where he needs more masculine energy.
And just to go on a tangent for a second, like within each of us, we have masculine andfeminine energy.
And part of the reason why so many people are feeling off kilter or uncentered is becausethey're not tapping into their own masculine and feminine energy.
(23:29):
So I would say that we all need the, you know, we've got the feminine flow and thecreative.
And we need the boundaries and the follow through and the steps and all of those things.
And that kind of comes from the consistent masculine that's based on a 24 hour day cycle.
It's masculine energy represents the sun and that comes up and feminine energy is the moonand it's a longer cycle and has more flow and creativity.
(23:55):
We need both of those things.
However, when you look at how many people are not able to use their voice because theyhave not
been in a safe enough space to tell true stories.
That's where really the feminine energy has been so off balance for so many people, wherethe workplace has been allowed to take on a shape that is more serves one type of person.
(24:20):
so anyway, kudos to you for you did both.
had your feminine idea, your creativity, and you're putting that to test.
And you also are taking the steps to, with your masculine energy of action follow through.
setting goals and all of those things and it's really beautiful.
So one of the things that I think is so important about being a person alive today iscommunity and especially when it comes to working mothers and by working mothers I mean
(24:54):
women who are getting shit done, involved in their communities, balancing lots of thingsand I would say that most of us are.
even hesitate to just put this in the category of mothers, but people who are wearing lotsof hats in life, who are dreamers, who are trying to create things, who are trying to move
the needle on their lives, community is an essential part of it.
(25:19):
Surrounding yourself with like-minded people who see, have a similar world of you from theterms of not looking at people who look exactly like you or think exactly like you, but
are willing to like,
challenge you and help you expand your thinking and help uplift you.
Yeah, keep you going.
Yeah, and I think it's a balance between, you know, there's friend circles that can dothat.
(25:44):
But I also think if you are someone who truly is on the business side, it's important tohave both.
And I think both of those I really found a little bit later in my life.
And I'm so glad that on this entrepreneurial journey that I'm on that I found you when Idid, right?
Like, I mean, that was huge to be able to have, that's like,
(26:06):
Double bonus, right?
I have a friend and a woman in business who I can like go to and understand me and knowwhere I'm at and talk about, you know, the motherhood piece, right?
Like all the things.
First, the whole, the whole bit of it.
But then I also, mean, recently I'm actually here in Chicago because yesterday I was at myfirst, you know, entrepreneurial training session with this new group that I'm a part of
(26:29):
now where it is men and women who are in a certain level of.
business revenue size where we are like or way beyond where I'm at right now.
And I've never been in a room with people that were that, I mean, we literally sat and wewere joking.
We're like, my gosh, we're not the lone weirdo.
(26:49):
Like we're all being, we're all there together and we're not alone.
just, we feel alone in maybe our day-to-day network, right?
Because we are the entrepreneur, we are the visionary and you have a team.
amazing team below you but they're not you and there's a reason for that right that youneed both for that to work.
Well, it's interesting because it's just a different set of, I don't want to say problems,but a different set of thoughts and considerations that when you're running the business
(27:17):
and the responsibilities and the weight of that hits differently.
Yeah.
So when you walk into a room, I experienced this when I joined EO, the EntrepreneursOrganization.
I walked into my first event and I remember I brought my friend Macy to come with me and Iwas like, I grabbed her arm, was like.
my God, I found my people.
was just like, speak the same language.
Understand instantly the same problem.
(27:38):
Okay, how are you balancing work and home?
How are you figuring out the financial piece?
How are you helping make sure that your people don't hate you and then go on to leavereviews about you on every platform possibly because they hate you so much.
Truly, it's like, how do you balance all those things and then get resources foraccounting, how to structure your days and all of that.
(28:02):
It's like, it's so...
helpful to learn from each other and have that mindset of like gut someone got to keep it.
Hey, have you thought about it?
Yeah, and I think what's cool about, again, at least this business group that I'm at,people are at all different spectrums of their business right now, right?
There are people in this group that have done the things and they are like building thisfreedom lifestyle where they now have, you know, team members running this and that for
(28:25):
them.
And so I can look at them and say, oh, you can do your business that way.
And they're doing it, right?
And you can look at someone who's just a little bit more like a couple steps behind me,right?
And so it's really interesting.
to say we're all very like-minded people, but we're at different parts in our businessjourney.
And just the conversation, I had a lunchtime conversation and an inter-time conversation,and all of a sudden my mind is completely blowing up in the best way, because it's things
(28:49):
that, again, maybe listening to that, you ask me all the time, is this fear that you'refeeling, or is it really a no?
Is it a no because you don't want to, or is it a fear?
so much I'm realizing, I think, is fear-based and not a hard no.
It's afraid of, I really do it?
And then it's like, have these people looking at me saying, you've done it.
(29:11):
Like, what do you mean, can you do it?
You did it.
So now if you wanna do the next, like go for it, right?
And that there's an opportunity.
Someone there who can like hold up a mirror to you and be like, hi.
Yeah.
And I think about this, actually, on episode one of season two, I talked a little bitabout our time together a couple of years ago when we both went and we like spent the
(29:34):
night at a hotel.
We printed out Rebecca Campbell's Work Your Light vision book for, you know, reflecting onthe previous year.
And then.
setting intentions and goals for the following year.
Yeah.
And what was so cool about doing that with you was that you would say like, okay, well Idid, I'm gonna you as an example, but you did the same for me.
(29:57):
Whereas like, you're like, okay, well I just like only did this thing and this thing andthis thing and this and I don't know, I don't think I will.
And then I was like, Jackie, what the fuck are you talking about?
You did this?
You did that?
Remember this thing that you overcame?
And my God, and what about this?
Yeah,
I'll do those things.
And you did the same thing for me.
And it was so validating to be like, wait, hang on.
(30:19):
Let's not focus so much on the things we didn't do.
Let's focus on the things that we did do.
And remember to celebrate all those milestones.
But also, just to have someone there who's cheering you on and saying, hey, remember, thisis the thing that you accomplished that you kind of dusted onto the rug because maybe you
didn't have anyone to celebrate it with.
Or maybe you just had to run to soccer practice with kids.
(30:41):
You didn't get a chance to acknowledge it.
But to stop and say,
yes, I made things happen.
And what's also cool about that, I told you this, I brought that book back out justrecently and I read back through it and I was like, hell yeah.
Like the things that I had set out for myself, you I had certain timelines again that Ihad put on these ideal timelines.
(31:01):
I'll call it for 2024 or 2023 at the time I think it was.
And looking back, I mean, some yes got accomplished in 2023, but I would say almost everysingle thing I had on there by the end of like this past year had worked its way out, you
know?
And I just think that's,
So such an important reminder, like writing things down, like we had to physically writein a book.
(31:22):
It wasn't typed, it wasn't, you know, a voice memo note, like it was our hand to a pen topaper, right?
And even in my training yesterday, they basically said, put your computers away.
Like we are writing things down.
Then you can transfer it to your computer, transfer it however you want, but that's justthat physical act of writing and paper and grounding and just like.
(31:46):
That's a different press puts it in your brain differently, right?
Like there's like science aid
in the universe in a way that's like really intentional and you can come back to andreference and have yourself accountable for and all of those things.
It's a really beautiful thing.
So now you are balancing a brand new baby startup that's so wonderful and so exciting.
(32:06):
Everyone needs to go buy Piper Mint Jammy.
Not your sweatener.
And can't wait for the pillowcases.
So we'll make sure to share the links there.
You're also a managing partner of a
massive business that continues to grow and blow things out of the water and you'rekicking ass there and you're leading in a way that is heart-centric and using your voice
(32:27):
and that's amazing.
You're also a mom.
So what are some of the things that you do to stay centered and focused and that lose yourshit in all of the different, to be a whole person all the time?
Yeah, it's hard.
I will say that, you as I work on my business, my business has granted me some luxuries ofoutsourcing certain things that I used to have to do all myself, right?
(32:52):
So even down to as simple as, you know, now I have someone deliver some lunch meals to mefor the week versus me spending three hours on a Sunday prepping.
And that's now three hours I can go spend with my kids and we'll go do something fun.
So I do think when you can, and even outsourcing could be like running high school.
kids and students that wanna help have some exposure to things, right?
So I'm trying to be, make sure I'm working on the things that I actually need me to be,need me for it.
(33:17):
And for the other things, I'm pushing things down to my team.
I'm trying to find people outside of my network that can help support me.
But it's saying, I've gotten a lot better about saying like, it can wait to some emails,it can wait to some customers, it can wait to even some of my team members to be honest.
Obviously I'm always there and they know if the house is burning down, like they can textme and I will always answer them.
(33:42):
But I think setting up some more boundaries has been really helpful for me coming in atnight and trying to make sure I am putting my phone away when the boys are around, you
know, and I still get caught, trust me.
There is a lot of work, you know, still to be done.
But I think setting up those boundaries and also taking time, like I go, I playcompetitive tennis and that is something that I do for me.
(34:04):
and I enjoy it and we are undefeated and we are gonna be going to districts again andhopefully states again.
And like, that's a fun thing as an adult to get back into competition in a different way,right?
But I know that if I don't do that time for me, it's harder for me to show up the best foreverybody else.
So I think it's just really prioritizing and then having to say no.
say no to a lot more things than I ever used to.
(34:26):
Again, I think that's the people pleaser in me.
would be like, yes, I can do it.
Yes, I can do it.
And now I'm like, no, if it's not like a...
Someone says, it's not a hell yeah, it's like a fuck no.
Like that's something that my coach taught me last year.
Like if you're not feeling, if it's a should, shut it.
If it's a want, that's a different story.
So again, it's all these little, little things that have just added up to me being able toorganize and have more, you know, meaningful moments with people.
(34:52):
And I believe with my kids.
I really believe it's quality, not quantity to be honest.
Like I, if I have to go to a work meeting, like I don't feel guilty about that.
Like I know I'm doing that for a reason.
It's not just to get away, it's to go build my business bigger, right?
But you know, we're going on a ski trip this weekend and I'm not gonna chuck my work onMonday.
We're gonna be skiing instead.
So I've just, again, set some boundaries up, I think in a much more productive way than Iever have in the past.
(35:14):
And I still have so much more opportunity to keep doing that.
And I'm really actually excited about that, to keep building those boundaries and keepbuilding.
You know, there's no balance.
It's integration, especially as an entrepreneur.
So it's just where does that lie?
Where does some things start and stop and making sure that when I'm at the business, I'mgiving focus to the business.
When I'm with my kids, I'm being focused to my kids.
And when and how that shows up, I'm not so concerned about that.
(35:38):
It's just making sure that I'm intentional when I'm there and that people feel likethey're being seen by me, right?
And that I'm not being scatterbrained and distracted.
No, I love that.
And especially the competitive tennis parts.
It's like finding hobbies and all those things is so important.
I think I told you that I just started singing less.
Amazing, I'm so happy for you that you are doing that for yourself.
(36:02):
Because right, that is for you.
That is for you and yourself and it brings you joy and.
still the same five year old girl in the inside.
I just sing and perform and all of that and it's showing up until the
to see you with your guitar on Hinsdale Central stage doing, know, wild horses and beinglike, I just remember looking at you up there and being like, it's fucking awesome.
(36:26):
Like so cool.
Like you're just such a rock star.
So I'm so glad you're, you know, coming back to that.
I mean, I know you've always been, you know, you'll sing here and there, but reallyactually committing and saying, no, like I want to hone in on this passion and skill of
mine, which you have an amazing talent for anyways.
Like I just think it's wonderful.
Thank you, yes, I love it and it's interesting to me because some of the things that I'mlearning through going back to singing lessons are things like, okay, it's a lot of breath
(36:55):
work, it's somatics, and like, okay, where are you placing things in your body and howyou're letting it out?
I feel so much like, my God, this is kind of like all of the things that I did to get awayfrom myself and all of the tools that I found to come back to it through
breath and sound healing and other things and then it's like putting these pieces backtogether now and like the last frontier is like singing again.
(37:21):
my gosh, it's so cool.
So who knows what I'll do with it or nothing.
Yeah.
And maybe I would just go.
I mean, I'm not going to like join the- I mean, yes, you- let's be real, I gotcha.
But I think that that's an important takeaway too is like remembering that like in all ofit, like when I first started Yakity Yak, Yak Yak is my content marketing agency, been in
(37:43):
business for over 10 years, multi seven figure business.
And when I started it, I didn't know, I didn't have a road book.
didn't have, I wore every single hat.
I can say that I have literally done every single job in the company to this day can saythat.
And when I first started, that was a,
I was like, I'm working so hard.
(38:05):
working all these.
And I thought that was cool.
I that was something to be celebrated.
That I was working to the point of burnout, that I was doing all of those things.
honestly, it's taken a really, really long time to dismantle that mindset within myselfand to make sure that I'm trusting my team.
I need reminders sometimes to be like, no, we got it.
We hate you on this.
(38:25):
that there doesn't, you don't need to fill all of the roles, that that is actually a verymasculine mindset.
Instead it's like, build trust, build the right people, delegate appropriately, andcelebrate them for what they bring in.
And it makes life so much easier as an entrepreneur.
(38:45):
those of you who are starting out, there's so many amazing tools right now, like from AI,from email, from meeting schedule systems, and so many things that didn't exist
necessarily when I was getting started, but they do exist now.
and can buy you back your time, can buy you back your freedom so that you can be a wholeperson.
And a whole person isn't a workaholic, a whole person isn't just a mom who is only focusedon her children.
(39:10):
Like there needs to be room for the things that light you up, like tennis, like making adifference in the world, like girlfriends, connections, all those things, singing lessons,
whatever it may be.
Because when you have space, then it allows...
Like the universe brings you so many new things to respond to that might take you down apath that is the life of your dreams.
(39:33):
I and I think it's okay to not be there for everything for others.
I've gotten to a point where sometimes my tennis will come foot with a football game and Igo to tennis because if I don't go to tennis, I'm not gonna show up the next day for my
family in the same way.
If I have nothing for myself and I'm only just giving, giving, at some point that willdrain my battery, it will.
(40:00):
So I think it's that balance of making sure
or sorry, not balance, like just understanding that it's okay to choose you.
And that so many, that any flack that you get for that is not a true story.
It's someone else who decided that that's not how mothers should be.
that's not how business owners should be.
(40:23):
But when you examine it, it's not the truth.
So mom guilt is, yes, it's real.
Like, yes, so many of us would prefer to be with our kids over...
working late to make ends meet, all those things.
And it comes from a huge state of privilege, sometimes to have the choice.
But noting that we get to take agency over our destiny and it's okay to have space to be,to make a difference.
(40:52):
Life doesn't just stop when you have children and the impact that you can make in theworld can be vast and continuous and it can work in conjunction with motherhood,
entrepreneurship, having
a day job, having all those things and just figuring out, like listening to that likelittle nudge inside of you that says like, okay, I've got an idea, I've got something I
(41:14):
want to do.
I got to listen to it because the longer you don't listen to it, the more the universewill start dropping these absolute disrupting bombs on you and your friends.
Take the next step.
And I think it's modeling it for the children, for my children too, right?
Like they see, they see me taking time when I need it for myself and that's okay.
Right.
And I hope that they will do the same thing for themselves as they get older and, andthey're, you know, navigating their journey.
(41:39):
So I think it's, I think it's again, it, models both ways too.
I think hopefully I'm, mean, So, well, same Z girl, same Z.
Thank you.
So now a few things here.
Yeah.
Thinking about this in terms of like what we're modeling for our kids.
I think we're also modeling for each other as women.
(42:02):
And this over the last couple of years you and I both gone through like tons of highs andlows together as you've been building your business.
I've been going through changes and building new businesses and building new things.
And I think that what is so interesting is that
oftentimes I'll be high and then maybe you'll be going through something and I can holdspace for you and look at you.
(42:22):
then vice versa, sometimes we're both just like, what the fuck?
Life is hard.
Yeah, I think that we, I noticed myself especially in the pandemic and the yearsimmediately following the pandemic that I would just like kind of isolate and not go to
people for help because I was kind of like, we'd been forced in this situation where wewere doing things all by ourselves.
(42:45):
And so as we reconnected in each other's lives and you become just such an important partof mine, I was reminded how vital it is to pick up the phone and call someone and leave a
voice note.
It's like, hey, I'm working through this thing right now.
(43:09):
Hey, I'm not in a great place.
Or hey, what's going on with you and checking in?
Yes.
Check.
and with your girlfriends.
It can change your life.
Yes, and again, I am, as Ashley already mentioned, voice memos are like my new goal for2025 is like send as many voice memos as I can, but I just think, doesn't everyone light
(43:32):
up when they hear their friend's voice?
Even if it's just on a recording and I know we all hate leaving cell phone recordings,like those don't leave me one of those, but send me a voice memo all day, so.
I just think, again, even if it's just a check-in of thinking of you all, right?
Because we think of our friends all the time, but we don't always tell each othernecessarily that we're thinking of each other, right?
Especially for us where we're not in the same city.
So we don't get to see each other that same way that you might see other people.
(43:55):
So yes, check in with friends if you're having a shitty day.
It's okay to tell someone that, especially someone who's in your safe circle, right?
Because they're gonna know what you, they might, you might not even know what you need,but they might, right?
Or then they're just there to say, hey, I hear you, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
know, just to be that.
(44:16):
We're not alone.
All of us, listening men or women, you're not alone.
And to find people who you can count on, to find people you can relate to, to find peopleyou can connect to, because together we are so much stronger.
And as human beings, it's in our DNA to build connection.
And we have gotten into these habits of being in super burnout cycles where we don'thave...
(44:39):
space for it.
I know for a long period of time, the first people that I would cancel out would be mygirlfriends, even though they're the ones that uplifted me the most.
so I've been really making a conscious effort to say, no, like, this is, I'm going to feelmore uplifted.
maybe also it's not just what I feel, but it's like, maybe I can uplift someone else who'sgoing through something.
(45:01):
And just remember, like, this myopic kind of view that we sort of had to adopt duringpandemic and post pandemic.
doesn't exist anymore.
So find your people, find your community, lean on them and hold space for them and thenlet them hold space for you.
Because what happens then is you get new ideas, you get new suggestions, you meet newpeople, you get new experiences and all of those are the way of feeling supported so that
(45:30):
you can go on and do the thing in this world that you are meant to do.
And I'll say just real quickly, I have found some of my closest friendships much later inlife, right?
Like, I mean, I love, or they've come back full circle from earlier in life, right?
So I have it on both sides, but there's relationships that I've met literally in the pastone to two years with a young woman who I'm like, my gosh, like we knew each other in a
(45:55):
life past for sure.
And then we had crossover and loose circles.
And now she's back in my life, we're back in each other's lives and like.
You know, I can't imagine my life without her in it for the rest of it, right?
So I think sometimes don't think that because you're of a certain age, you can't find newbest friends because you can't.
I mean, we're a perfect example of that, right?
You know, it's just so, it's so cool.
(46:16):
never.
was like a little too rebellious in high school for Jackie.
I was voted class grandma, if you don't remember that.
I was by a bedazzled senior shirt.
So yeah, I was a little straight lace, let's say, but I've come a long way from that too.
No, you haven't.
Darn it.
no, but you do an amazing thing.
(46:37):
Let me ask you a question.
What are you doing to show up in the world unapologetically?
I think I kind of started off with the podcast this way.
Like I am just really trusting my gut and not just trusting it, but then speaking it,right?
Speaking my truth, not letting what in my brain might be saying, I don't know.
(46:59):
Like, should you really say that?
Right?
That like little, like that voice is, I can gently pick it up and put it down and say,okay, I hear that voice, but I'm gonna,
do what's right for me.
I'm gonna step into my truth.
So I think every day that I can show up and start, again, being more of my authentic selfon the outside, as I said, right?
(47:19):
The feelings have always been there, but really being able to speak my truth in any aspectof my life.
I think that's my way of really just stepping out into the world the most unapologeticallyway for me.
Bye.
I'm so glad that you are.
How can people find you?
So they can follow at on Instagram at Piper and Mint P-I-P-E-R A-N-D-M-I-N-T.
We also have a website www.piperandmint.com.
(47:42):
So those are probably the best ways I'm on there.
that's been a whole nother thing, right?
That could be a whole nother podcast.
But yes, I am out in social in a major way that I never have been before.
So that's been its own growing pains.
But yeah, that's the best way to reach me.
Send me a DM, we're super active.
We love chatting and hearing from people.
So excited to connect with you.
(48:03):
Awesome, thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate everyone who tuned in.
Jackie, it's been such a pleasure.
And I'm just grateful to have you in the seat and in the studio.
And I know you're gonna go on and make a huge impact in the world.
Keep doing all the things.
Thank you.
I am Ashley, this is Jackie, and we are unapologetically yours.
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