May 21, 2025 • 51 mins
What if mentorship could transform not just individual businesses, but entire communities?
After a 40-year banking career, we introduce you to Bruce Taylor, a figurehead in Chicago business. Taylor has made it his mission to help uplift the next generation of leaders through 1:1 mentorship programs that are changing the landscape of the Chicago business community for the better.
In today’s episode, Taylor, former president of Cole Taylor Bank and founder of The Next Level Exchange, shares the principles of effective mentorship, why questions are more powerful than advice, and how creating economic opportunity lifts everyone up.
Oh, and Bruce just so happens to be Ashley’s mentor, too. In this candid conversation, they talk about what effective mentorship for entrepreneurs really looks like—and why great mentors don’t give advice, they ask better questions. Because, let’s face it, entrepreneurship is emotional…and sometimes lonely.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
✨ How to build an effective mentor-mentee relationship
✨ Why giving advice often backfires (and what to do instead)
✨ The keys to creating economic opportunity in overlooked communities
✨ How mentorship changed Bruce's approach to parenting adult children
✨ The power of being a "sponge" when building a business
✨ What it really takes to start and grow a successful venture
✨ How Bruce built The Next Level Exchange from scratch into a platform that has paired nearly 300 mentors and mentees
… and so much more!
Connect with Bruce:
Email: btaylor@taylorpartnerssbr.com
Website: http://www.Nextlevelexchange.org
Connect with Ashley:
Instagram @ashleydlogan
Website https://ashleydlogan.com/
Resources Mentioned
- The Next Level Exchange
- Chicago Urban League
- Sunshine Enterprises
- Women's Business Development Center
Have a topic or guest you’d love to see featured on the Unapologetically Yours podcast? Send us an email: podcast@unapologeticallyyours.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What people may or may not understand about entrepreneurship and leading a business isjust how taxing it can be.
It can be a very lonely journey when you're running your own business.
think especially for entrepreneurs, and maybe I'm un-thin-eyes here or not, I don't know,but I think especially for women entrepreneurs who are in charge of a family and raising
(00:23):
children, oftentimes.
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Unapologetically Yours podcast.
I'm your host Ashley Logan and I'm so happy to have you here today.
Unapologetically Yours is a podcast where we go deep on everything from spirituality torelationship and connection to business and belief systems.
(00:46):
Because in a world when we've been taught to play by the rules, it's time to liveunapologetically, right?
Absolutely.
So I'm so happy to have
one of my favorite people here as a guest today.
This man has been my mentor for really, I'm coming in five years.
Starting in the pandemic, I know, which is crazy.
(01:10):
And we were matched through a mentorship program and we took a personality test to see howwe could along and more on that later.
But long story short, for several years, we have met once a month to talk about everythingfrom
our businesses to life, to goal setting and beyond.
(01:32):
So I'd like to formally introduce Bruce Taylor.
is the former president of Cole Taylor Bank based here in Chicago and the founder of theNext Level Exchange.
Well, it's very nice to be here and to see you in a totally different context.
So thank you for inviting me.
Thank you.
(01:52):
Thank you for being here and thank you for being one of the 10 people who listen to thispodcast on a regular basis.
I'm there for you.
I get a lot out of them.
I appreciate that.
So I'm part of an organization called EO, Entrepreneurs Organization.
I've talked about it on the show before.
And Bruce is a member of an organization called YPO and YPO Gold now.
(02:19):
what those organizations have in common are
bringing like-minded leaders of businesses together in learning, in camaraderie, insharing of information.
And I grew up, because my dad was a member of YPO and had exposure to how beneficial theserelationships can be and how important.
(02:41):
So what made you want to become a mentor?
That's a good question.
Well, I think overall, I feel like I've been very fortunate.
in the opportunity to grow up with two very significant mentors in my life.
Not that they were formal, but the informal mentorship can be very important in my fatherand my grandfather.
(03:07):
And the opportunity that I had through them to learn, to listen to conversations, to uhget the benefit of their experiences was huge.
So fast forward.
now 60 some years.
And in addition to wanting to give back in a meaningful way and share the experiences,because we've had through our family business and the banking business, you know, we had
(03:34):
some really positive successes and we had some really nightmarish challenges that we hadto go through.
It's a roller coaster ride when you're running your own business and wanting to share and
kind of give back uniquely what I've learned through my experiences of the things thatwere successful and sharing the mistakes that I've made and what I've learned from those
(04:01):
mistakes.
I say that tongue in cheek, but there were plenty of mistakes and doing it for the benefitof somebody else, it just is one of really the highlights of this stage of my life.
In addition to that, the relationships that you established through
the mentoring programs I'm involved in, have been extremely meaningful.
(04:23):
And we can get more into that, but it's a wonderful way to give back.
Well, I think that when people may or may not understand about entrepreneurship andleading a business is just how taxing it can be emotionally, spiritually, physically, all
across the board.
And the importance of building community.
(04:46):
and not trying to be the smartest person in the room, but surrounding yourself with peoplewho can maybe help guide or can help take the load off or just commiserate in the day to
day.
It's really meaningful.
It's absolutely.
And it can be a very lonely journey when you're running your own business.
(05:07):
think especially for entrepreneurs and maybe a month and I sure or not.
don't know.
but I think especially for women entrepreneurs who are in charge of a family and raisingchildren oftentimes.
And I am amazed at the demands that are being placed on them and their ability to continueto build a business and navigate all of the challenges that is involved in that as they're
(05:34):
also maybe primarily responsible for children in the home and so forth.
I'm not sure when Ashley Logan actually sleeps, but there's a lot on your plate.
But again, it can be lonely and having somebody who can be an advocate, an advisor,somebody to share or bounce ideas off of can be meaningful.
(05:58):
Yeah.
Well, I have to say that one of the highlights of my business experience has been workingwith you.
And that's nice of you to say.
It's true.
Well, people will be like, oh, OK, you've got got lunch with your mentor.
I'm like, you mean my best friend, Bruce?
Well, one of the things you mentioned, and this is funny, and I still remember this fromwhen we first met this culture index personality test and why they matched us because we
(06:26):
have some similarities.
Sorry about that, Ashley, but you have some similarities to me.
But we.
We actually learned we both like to talk a lot and enjoy and meet people and get to knowwhat makes people tick and so forth.
And we were advised to not let our discussions devolve into something that is greatconversation, but we never get anything done.
(06:51):
But I think we kind of navigate that pretty well.
So.
I think so.
We figured out how to, we go and then we make our way.
back.
So what do you think in your experience are the key components of a mentor relationship?
First of all, it's a willingness to be an advocate and to meet the person, the mentee thatyou're working with where they're at, not based on my expectation.
(07:17):
I'm not a director of that business.
I'm not a lender.
I'm not an investor.
It's really about meeting the entrepreneur where they're at.
And then understanding how I can best
advocate, how I can be a really good listener, ask some good questions, and provide some,whether it's access to my social network or resources that I'm aware of.
(07:43):
But I think at the end of the day, flexible, being flexible, resourceful, willing to alsolearn from the mentee, because I've learned a lot from you over time, and just being that
advocate.
you know, for the business owner that you're working with.
Yeah, I think that's so true.
(08:04):
So.
Well, I've learned a lot from you as well.
And I think the other thing that I would add to that is consistency.
So every time that we end a meeting, we make sure to schedule the next session.
So it's on the books and that we're.
Yeah, you're always on the hook to meet with me.
Always on the hook.
One of the important things you do that I appreciate, and I think it's important in amentoring relationship is.
(08:29):
you spend a little bit of time at least to prepare an agenda before our meetings.
Now that may be, I don't know, I'm guessing you don't sweat about it for 24 hours, butmaybe a few minutes before.
But I think that helps give our discussion a little bit of structure.
And so it gives you the opportunity to think about what are the most important things youwant to discuss?
(08:51):
What's the takeaway you want to take from any particular meeting?
Yeah, yeah.
So.
No, absolutely.
And I don't necessarily have all the answers.
And no mentor is going to have all the answers.
But having the opportunity to discuss things that may be a little uncomfortable ordifficult to discuss because it exposes a vulnerability, uh it's important.
(09:16):
And even if I can't respond or provide some meaningful feedback, there are people that Iknow that I hopefully could talk to, tap into that.
could fill a gap that maybe I can't necessarily fill.
Yeah.
Well, and the other thing too that I think is important and that you're great about is notnecessarily giving advice, but asking questions to help people thoughtfully consider.
(09:43):
So how do you think that people in entrepreneur leader types, how do they react to givingadvice?
First of all, I don't think a role of a mentor is to tell the mentee what to do.
It's your business, you know it.
And I found out through my career, there's more than one way, there's more than my way toget something accomplished and something meaningful and positive accomplished.
(10:06):
So I think that has to be done in a very judicious way.
I mean, I can share an experience of, know, if there's a particular topic and I can sharewhat I did and what the result was, whether it was good, bad, or indifferent.
But I don't think
As successful as anybody has been in their business career, there have been plenty ofmistakes and there are other ways to get things accomplished.
(10:32):
And to think that somebody has the one right way to make something happen is probably notactually true.
There are many ways to get things done.
you know, as when I thought I was on the right course of doing something and realized itwasn't necessarily the right course and not going to produce the results I wanted, you
(10:52):
know, that makes me very aware today.
to be very careful about telling anybody what to do in their business.
You know it better than anybody.
So, you know, I can, I can lob in advice sometimes from the grandstands, but you know,you're the one that has to live with it, execute, and know all the different aspects of,
(11:15):
uh you know, what possibly would make it a good decision or not a good decision or courseof action.
Sure.
Well, and also like advising people
It creates sort of an emotional hierarchy, I think, to some extent, where that one personknows better than the other.
And I think that when, that most people sort of tense up when someone starts telling themwhat to do or giving should statements, how they should do something or what they should
(11:47):
not do.
And I think about how through these entrepreneur organizations and that
sort of coaching that they provide around interacting with one another as peers andmentorships and is the gestalt type mindset where you're not necessarily taking that
hierarchical position of looking down and telling someone what you do or not do.
(12:14):
But this extends so much beyond just business relationships and into personalrelationships too.
think it's hard for us type A type people who like to get shit done to not try to controlother people's outcomes.
think um people naturally, I think, especially an entrepreneur, a founder of a business,business owner, get fairly defensive when you tell them what to do.
(12:41):
And
ah I'll reiterate maybe in a slightly different way.
I don't know all of the players in your company and clients that you serve and the demandsthat are being made by various stakeholders.
I wouldn't know that necessarily in any mentor mentee relationship.
You know that as best.
(13:02):
So I can jump to a conclusion, tell you what to do, and miss some very important aspectsthat are kind of rate limiting factors when you have to decide.
What's the right thing to do?
What's the right course of action to take?
But I will say, one of the things that I've noticed, I think it's related, two pointsrelated to this.
(13:23):
One is the mentees that I've worked with that have been most successful are those that arelike sponges.
And I know I'm not the only person giving advice to you or to some of the other menteesI've worked with.
That's so much smarter than I was when I was growing up in my career.
Because I felt like if I couldn't know the answer myself, then I shouldn't be doing whatI'm doing.
(13:45):
But that's absolutely wrong.
The willingness to seek advice and input from others, I think is one of the criticalsuccess factors for success in running, starting up and running your own business.
I think you do that, some of the other mentees that I work with do that.
I think getting that input from others.
(14:06):
different sources I think is really important.
There's another interesting aspect about I think being a good mentor and that is I don'tknow if my children, my adult children who are now in their 40s and mid 30s uh will be
listening to this podcast but it has made me a better parent to my adult children where Ican consciously take the tape out of my head that deals with them as teenagers and puts in
(14:35):
the tape with
dealing with them as professionals, responsible adults, people who are accomplished intheir own way.
I get a lot further with my children not telling them what to do or accusing them of doingsomething like they always did when they were in high school, but asking, again, asking
(14:58):
good questions, sharing experiences, and letting them talk through the situations thatthey're involved with.
It opens the conversation up.
I would say new possibilities, new thoughts, new ideas.
and instead of shutting somebody down with a wall of advice, which is what it really is,it creates a wall.
(15:18):
Well, so one of the things I think about is being part of these entrepreneur organizationslike YPO or EO, prestigious organizations with very, very well-connected people.
And so naturally through that, it allows people to uplift one another at this.
playing field.
And that's to the benefit of the business community at large and to communities at large.
(15:42):
um But one of the things I think about a lot, and I know you do too, is how to um bring upother entrepreneurs or business owners maybe who don't have the same access to these
organizations, who don't have the same access to incredible mentors who can help pave theway either because
(16:04):
their socioeconomic status and they weren't born in a position where they automaticallyknow people who are more connected or have other barriers.
So tell me a little bit about how you feel about bringing other entrepreneurs up in theworld.
Yeah.
Well, as you know, I was born and raised and my and raised my family all in the Chicagoarea.
(16:29):
I love Chicago.
Even in the winter, I love Chicago and
When I left my full-time role at the bank back in 2014, I wanted to give back in a lot ofways, but in one way in particular in helping create more economic opportunity throughout
(16:51):
all of Chicago.
And through a fair amount of networking and discovery, I met a woman who was running theentrepreneurship program.
at the Chicago Urban League.
And as I learned, there are many different organizations in the city that are supporting avery diverse group of emerging business owners and entrepreneurs.
(17:17):
And she had mentioned to me that the one thing she had not yet been able to accomplish wasa mentoring program.
And I said, aha.
Wait, you know a thing or two about mentoring.
I have an idea.
This is in 2017, we launched our first group.
think it can be incredibly.
And this is through.
So you this led you to founding the next level exchange.
(17:41):
So we started with the Chicago Urban League, then Sunshine Enterprises joined us.
And then about a year later, the Women's Business Development Center.
And I just think we have found a very meaningful way for established businessprofessionals, business owners to give back uniquely.
you know, their gifts of their experience, their skills, their networks, their resourcesto a group that as we are more successful and as they are more successful become very
(18:15):
vested in this entrepreneurial experience we have all had, so many of us in so manydifferent communities that make Chicago what it is.
The established business
community here in Chicago giving back in a very unique way can make a significant impactover time and helping these business owners and their businesses become more successful
(18:38):
more quickly.
Whether that's creating jobs, careers, wealth, you know, within their own community.
I've seen this in many other communities here in Chicago, what that entrepreneurialexperience is like over the course of
multiple generations.
And I think that can have the same type of impact uh throughout all of the Chicago area,especially in areas and neighborhoods that are either overlooked or under-resourced
(19:11):
currently.
And there's a lot of great ideas, a lot of very energetic people who are working hard toestablish uh businesses within these communities.
And not all of them are going to be successful.
That's true in any community.
Being a banker, I saw plenty of people with what maybe you would call a lot of privilege,not end up being successful in their business ventures, but some of them will be.
(19:38):
And I think one of the most important things that you get out of successful entrepreneursis role models for others to follow.
I mean, one of the things that I'm most proud about regarding our program is when we askone of our mentees,
to become a mentor because of their experience and what they've learned and what they haveachieved.
(20:01):
Now it's a very hard sell because entrepreneurs are really busy and these people arerunning around spinning a lot of plates at the same do you mean?
Yeah, really, you have no idea.
You have no idea.
But there such important role models like the role models that I had, not only of my...
(20:22):
father and my grandfather, but the people in and around the community that I grew up inand was able to define what success can look like following an entrepreneurial or business
career.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that what's so cool about what you did was you took the experience thatyou had of one being mentored by those in your life and then also being a mentor to other
(20:51):
entrepreneurs.
and then created that roadmap to extend to communities with less resources.
And then you formally built that program.
Tell me a little bit more about how the organization has grown and how people listeningcan get involved.
Yeah, so we are the Next Level Exchange.
(21:11):
You can find us at nextlevelexchange.org on the internet.
We're always looking for mentors.
We're always looking for new mentees.
One of the interesting aspects about this, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, is that thisis a collaborative effort across more than one nonprofit organization supporting
entrepreneurs.
(21:32):
We have probably paired close to 300 mentors and mentees since the start.
This past year was uh really, I think, the beginning of an inflection point for theprogram when we actually hired our first full-time program director.
who's doing a marvelous job.
Shout out to Amy.
(21:52):
Hi, Amy.
You're doing a great job.
um And so as we continue to build the program, not only in terms of scale and the numberof people we touch, but also the value we add, where we can help identify business
opportunities for the mentees, continue to create meaningful networking opportunities,educational opportunities, and can hear from and to allow
(22:18):
the entrepreneurs in the program to hear from successful business owners about theirjourney.
I know I got that experience a lot in YPO when they had something called in the boardroomtype luncheon discussions where somebody would talk about how they built their business
and the ups and downs.
I think those are important learnings and opportunities for learning that we can sharewith the participants in the program.
(22:46):
So first of all, I think it's just amazing that you built this from the ground up and havefound sort of this pathway for entrepreneurs of all levels to give back.
And that's really impressive because it matters.
so what do you think are some of the benefits for the community around uplifting businessowners and new ventures?
(23:12):
Somebody once asked me at a planning session for this program,
several years ago.
So why are you doing it?
um Why is this important to you?
I think at the end of the day, it really is about I get a better place to live.
When there's more economic opportunity, more career opportunity, more wealth creationopportunity throughout all of Chicago, every one of us, whether you live in the suburbs or
(23:40):
in the city, on the north side or the south side, is gonna end up with a better home.
because the reverse is also true.
When there are challenges in our community, it affects all of us.
It may not affect us at that moment, but it affects opportunity, think, for everybody herein Chicago.
So I think we get a better home.
We get more economic opportunity.
(24:02):
We have more people who are invested in what I think is one of the greatest expressions ofliberty.
Don't want to get all mushy here, but liberty in...
in America and that is the opportunity to start and build a business and to earn therewards from a successful journey of building a business.
(24:26):
And so more people invested in that and I also think when you create ultimately a criticalmass of successful businesses in any community, it begins to build on itself and it
creates.
uh Opportunities sort of like this flywheel concept that I think Stephen Covey or wasn'tgood to great one of those books had mentioned that um You know it creates this critical
(24:51):
massive continuing activity.
So when we're looking at the entrepreneurial landscape are all opportunities createdequal.
Oh absolutely not.
You know, there are some businesses that are much more difficult, at least from myobservation as a banker.
Our focus as a company was working with owner-operated family-owned businesses.
(25:16):
And I saw that there are some industries and types of businesses that are just harder.
Subcontracting in the construction business can be very difficult ah as an example.
Being a contractor in general, major contracts that you have to manage over the course oftime could be multiple months to...
over a year managing large contracts, construction projects can be very difficult.
(25:41):
So no, mean, different opportunities, em you know, are, doesn't necessarily mean youcan't, shouldn't pursue them, but they're gonna have inherent in them some different risks
and different challenges.
Real estate's a good example.
Real estate can be a feast in famine business.
I mean, we learned that during the financial crisis.
(26:04):
The great recession in 2008, uh home building, it basically falls off a cliff.
And we did experience that in spades.
So that real estate can be very lucrative, can be a very positive career, but also just tobe aware that it can be also very volatile.
(26:24):
So what advice do you have for someone who's just getting started on theirentrepreneurial?
because I know there's a lot of people listening who have a seed that's planted in theirmind that maybe they haven't taken that first step on yet.
uh so what do you have to say to that person?
ah This is not the easy path.
(26:47):
Being an entrepreneur is not the easy path.
It is, in many respects, the harder path.
Because if the owner doesn't get it done, oftentimes it doesn't get done, whatever thatdone is.
realizing that it is a challenge.
It's a journey.
It's a lifestyle choice.
I know when I was running the business, I never really left the company.
(27:08):
I was thinking about it all the time, oftentimes dreaming about it.
My father coined a term about the three o'clock in the morning sweats he would get wakingup worrying about the latest series of problems that might have been occurring.
So I'm laughing to myself because for the last three nights I have had.
3 a.m.
(27:28):
Well, you just may be sick, but hopefully.
Probably a combination of a bunch of things.
Yeah.
political turmoil.
Yeah.
So it's not necessarily easy.
It can be a hard path, but it also can be an incredibly rewarding path.
I mean, the opportunity to be your own boss, the opportunity to build something that hasnever existed before, the opportunity to be very creative.
(27:54):
It's going to take a lot of perseverance, a lot of energy.
I would suggest get a lot of input, get a lot of help, find advisors, friends, peers.
Mentors.
Mentors oh who can help you along the way.
Oftentimes testing your idea out while you may be working full time in one job, butfinding ways to test something out to see if it's viable, uh if that's a possibility,
(28:22):
whether it's a retail concept of some type or.
some consulting or advising type of business to see if you can generate the...
The number one thing to generate, obviously, is revenue.
So can you begin to generate the revenue that will give you a chance to sustain and builda business?
(28:44):
It's so true.
mean, and right now, not that you're suggesting that someone leans on the corporate dollarto go ahead and get started on something else.
But by the way, that's a really good strategy.
While you're gainfully employed, you...
I don't wanna tell people to not go the extra mile working those late hours at their dayjob, but at the same time, if you're passionate about something, you have a seed that's
(29:08):
planted and you wanna get something done, it's never been easier.
There's never been more resources to do that because it's easy to build a website.
It's easy to...
ah I don't wanna suggest that it's easy to start a business, but...
The word side hustle is something that people understand.
First of all, I feel busted, so I'm busted, but no, there are many businesses, and thisgoes back even prior times, that get started at night or on the weekends.
(29:38):
Yeah, I'm not suggesting you don't do your job for your day job.
That's how I started with Yakety Yak.
Actually kind of funny, because I'd started Yakety Yak, but I was working at an agency.
and I was freelancing for the Sun Times.
And they all knew about each other.
So when I had downtime at the agency, I was working on my own business and thenfreelancing in the meantime.
(30:03):
And I gradually dropped those other parts till I was full time with Yakity Yak.
You know, it can start as a hobby.
If you're thinking about baking and wanting to open a bakery, you can start that somewhatout of your own.
home kitchen or as a bakery, as a hobby, and kind of build it from there.
(30:24):
uh And we have, I know we've had several salon owners who've started doing hair salonservices in their homes on the weekends before they went out and took the leap to leave
their current full-time employment and start their own full-time salon business.
(30:45):
So those are.
couple of examples I think about.
It also is interesting to me when I think about some of the customers that we dealt withat the bank that I loved.
And one that I think of was a letter envelope converter.
I won't say their name because they might get upset with me, but I love this customer andthe story about how they started their business in their garage with one little machine
(31:11):
and were able to persevere.
to be resourceful and to build what has become a multi-million dollar business.
So there are a lot of these businesses that are very well established, well known, thatgot very meager starts in somebody's garage.
Well, I think the part of that too is that when we have such a mindset around performanceand revenue and growth and all of those things, and it's really part of our capitalistic
(31:40):
culture.
that sometimes it can be intimidating to start something because people will be like,okay, well, what are you gonna do with that?
And ask a lot of questions about how it's going to grow and where it's gonna be in thefuture.
And I think it's okay to get started without necessarily having those answers and takingall of those little wins in stride because those little wins are really important and a
(32:03):
collection of little wins builds a foundation for growth and.
and other things.
So I totally agree with you that starting in the garage, starting in the home kitchen, allof that, it's a start and should be celebrated.
But starting off and thinking that you need to be up here can be a really big barrier forjust taking the baby steps to start.
(32:24):
oh And there's a lot of on the job learning that occurs when you're running, I don't carewhat business, that life changes, circumstances change.
um
You know, I think about the wonderful job some of our mentees did as COVID broke out andall the shutdowns and how they pivoted so quickly to morph their business into something
(32:48):
that could survive, you know, a huge shock to them.
But that's not something anybody plans for.
And you don't necessarily need to have a very fancy, glossy operating plan every year.
Having somewhat of a plan, having some objectives and how you can achieve them isimportant.
But you can probably do that on a page, maybe at most two.
(33:11):
But the doing is really important and learning from the doing is also really important.
And what's working and what's not working.
And that's also, I think, what's important going back to not giving advice.
I mean, you have more contact with your clients and what they like and what they don'tlike.
I felt that way about our bank customers.
They let us know what the competition was doing.
(33:33):
They let us know where we were doing well and maybe where.
we were falling short.
So that type of information in your connection to your clients and other stakeholders isreally critical in learning on the job.
I'll just put it that way.
I think taking the time to reflect is important.
(33:54):
more than that, and that goes back to the mentee mentor relationship, is that it is amoment of reflection when you're coming together and sharing your updates and have a
chance to respond to questions.
that someone's asking about your business and about you as the whole person.
I think that that's one of the things I value so much about you is that when you're askingme questions about my business and we're checking in, it's a great chance for me to
(34:19):
reflect on, okay, what is actually true about my business right now?
What is true about the direction?
What are the opportunities?
What are the things I'm missing?
But you're asking me those questions, not as someone who is a stakeholder in the businesswho's tied to its performance.
but an advocate of me, the person, the whole person who is not just a business owner, butan entrepreneur and podcast host and fire starter and all sorts of other.
(34:48):
All that good stuff.
All that good stuff.
it's nice to have someone who can see the full picture and then ask questions to supportthe full picture.
Yeah.
As you were talking, what came to mind was work-life balance.
And one of the
I think a really successful mentoring relationship not only deals with a business, butwhat's going on in the mentors and mentees personal lives.
(35:15):
Because there, you know, I've said this a lot over the course of time, that when you arerunning your own business, what happens in your personal life affects your business and
what happens in the business impacts your personal life.
You can't really separate the two.
So having the willingness and
uh openness to deal with both sides of what makes you the whole person that you are.
(35:41):
And part of that, one that comes to mind is work-life balance and how do you get it?
That was important when I was coming up in my career and it's equally important now and itsurprises me sometimes what small shifts can do in terms of the impact, the big impact
that they can have.
I'll give you one example.
Yeah, tell us about that because I don't know if you guys,
(36:04):
Bruce, you ran one of the largest banks in the Midwest and it was eventually sold to?
We merged with MB and then we all merged with Fifth Third.
OK.
And a family business, legacy business, you were under a lot of pressure when you wererunning this organization.
So and you had three kids.
(36:24):
Well, I had a very supportive spouse and Barbie was was great.
We had a very we organized ourselves in a very traditional way.
um that enabled me to spend a lot of time at work.
Looking back now, I'm thinking, well, maybe I didn't have to spend all that time.
think one of the benefits of maybe today's world, FaceTime is less important, but that maybe for a different episode for you.
(36:52):
But the one change that I made, because it was when our kids were little, and so I'mthinking in the late 80s, early 90s.
um
You know, I would work six days a week.
It made a huge difference when I started coming home for lunch on Saturdays.
That it was just at least for me.
I don't know about for I think also for Barbie and the kids that I left work and justspent that that rest of that day with the family and took some of the burden off of Barbie
(37:23):
and obviously took Sunday off.
I never got to the end of the to do list.
I think that's another issue we should talk about it another oh episode.
ah But there's always something to do.
That situation struck me as it was a little change that had a very big impact in improvingfamily relationships.
(37:44):
So one of the things that I really appreciate about you is your capacity for curiosity,always learning new things, open minded to new perspectives.
What's something that had you known now that you would have done differently?
Well, you know what?
(38:05):
There's this saying about give credit and take responsibility.
Another way that I think about that is catching people doing things right.
I would have done a lot more of that.
I mean, there were times when I felt the weight of the world was on my shoulders runningour company when things weren't going well.
(38:26):
And it was hard for me to do that.
But if I were to do something different now as being my genuine, interested, curious self,but also catching people doing something right, encouraging them, being positive with
them, yeah, it doesn't mean that you don't address issues that might be coming up.
When you feel the weight of the world is on your shoulders, it's hard to do that.
(38:49):
You know, when you're worried and concerned and overwhelmed, it's sometimes hard to givethat credit.
give that positive feedback to people.
As much as you possibly can, I would definitely have done that.
It's so much about finding the right people.
And that's the hardest, I think, part of almost every business is getting the right peoplein the right places in the company.
(39:16):
We weren't always successful about it.
And oftentimes, you know, we hired some...
big name professionals in the banking business that didn't work out so well.
uh But I would say the last six to eight years of the company before we merged, we had awonderful opportunity.
(39:39):
If I could boil my career down to two decisions I made, one of them was bringing in awhole team of bankers and executives from our primary competitor.
who did a wonderful job.
were great people.
The opportunities that arose from the financial crisis crisis.
(39:59):
Yeah.
know what?
Thank God we were smart enough to take advantage of it.
they uh being they did a wonderful job, know, sometimes keeping your eyes open andchanging your plan when an opportunity arises, you know, is as important as identifying a
risk and trying to mitigate it as best you can.
(40:20):
So I think.
And also even with mentorship, there's also, would guess, you as you observe, anyoneobserves people they've worked for, what they do that they like and what they do that they
really don't like.
Those are important learnings too, to kind of tuck away.
What do you like what your boss does for you?
(40:41):
And what do you really don't like?
And I think those are important learnings too.
So in any event, people are really important.
And hard to get it right.
Amen.
Amen to that.
They're the most important part of the business.
And they are.
(41:02):
It's hard to get right.
I chew on that a little bit because I think for anyone who's looking to build a team,doing things like taking a personality test, like culture index, so you could know that
you're a good match is important.
especially as you think about like role allocation and different things like that in thescaling part.
(41:23):
Going back to the next level exchange.
So right now you have had over 300 pairings of mentee mentors and which is making a hugedifference in the business landscape in the city of Chicago.
And so what are your goals over the next couple of years and how can what qualifiessomeone to be uh a mentee or a mentors if
(41:47):
should they want to be involved in the program?
Can I mention something first before I answer your question?
Of course.
So one of the uh additional benefits of this program is the relationships that are beingcreated between people who would have otherwise never met one another from different
communities, different cultures.
(42:08):
There are so many walls that exist in our city, in our area that these bridges being uh
built between these different individuals and the communities they represent.
We've heard from our mentors, it's one of the most valuable things they get out ofparticipating in the program.
know, that's A sense of community is so, and so important.
(42:31):
That's been very rewarding to see happen and the commitment so many people in theestablished business community have towards this program and the mentees they're working
with.
With the entrepreneurs, the mentees that we work with.
We're generally looking for people who've been in business for a couple years who eitherhave made it their full-time job or are considering making it their full-time job.
(42:57):
And so generally at least $25,000 a year in sales.
ah But we also make exceptions.
And those exceptions are based on the organization that they come through and how theyenter in the program.
One of the three partner organizations.
If they feel
that they're ready, then we'll make the exception and make sure that we find hopefully thebest mentor we can for them.
(43:22):
And that's again, the Urban League Women's Business Development Center and SunshineEnterprises.
That's where about 90 % currently of our mentees come from.
The mentors are people who have been in business for about 10 years, who've had eithersome extensive professional experience or managerial experience or ownership experience.
(43:44):
It's a very diverse group.
I mean, even just age demographic.
I think that one of the youngest mentors we had was in his young thirties.
And some of the mentors we have are in their seventies.
We have a lot of women, we have a lot of men, we have mentors of color.
So it's, uh you know, a very diverse group.
(44:05):
uh And so, you know, we're fortunate.
And that was one of the litmus tests for me about the sustainability of this program.
is to continue to attract people in the traditional business community to give back inthis very meaningful way.
You know, as far as what I hope, like I said, I hope we uh will add more organizations tothis effort.
(44:33):
We'll see more success that's very tangible and very meaningful.
You know, I've mentioned to you before a woman who I've mentored, uh who founded Ladies ofVirtue when we first started.
She had only volunteer help, and now I think she has a staff of close to 10.
(44:54):
or maybe more people that she's paying because of the expansion and growth of hernonprofit program.
More stories like that, more opportunities that we're giving the entrepreneurs in theprogram to find new markets and new opportunities for them to do business, not only within
their community, but outside their community, if that's the interest of the entrepreneur.
(45:19):
And when we...
continue to create a community of mentors who are kind of like-minded and want to giveback in this way because they find value in this work and they know it's important um to
creating that home we all want to live in here in the Chicago area.
So.
It's a really, really impressive thing that you're doing.
(45:41):
And because it not only uplifts the business owners who, let's face it,
We entrepreneurs need all the support and compassion that we can get.
And you don't get it necessarily.
You really have to fight to build your own community.
And in some cases, you might be lucky enough to join a group like YPO or EO.
(46:05):
And other times, you're scraping by and trying to find people who understand and speak thelanguage and get all of the headaches.
and joys of being in business.
But more than that, it's about the impact that each of these businesses can make bycreating jobs, by uh creating new paths.
(46:29):
And I think that what we need to remember is that there's room at the table for everyone.
There is endless opportunities to create wealth and abundance in businesses.
And by extending
a hand to the next person and bringing them along and sharing networks and sharinginformation and helping to build community, it really is to the benefit of everyone.
(46:57):
All of us here.
So absolutely, I'm very lucky to have found something that I do for free.
I don't get paid for this and I love it.
Somebody is very lucky if they find a career that they would do even if they didn't getpaid.
And I would do this.
So I'm fortunate to have the opportunity.
I feel so lucky to have miraculously been matched with you and that we've built such agreat rapport and you've been such a huge impact in my life just from being a friend and
(47:28):
then also uh making introductions that have been so helpful and connecting me with peoplewho might give me those insights that maybe I would have otherwise overlooked.
So I'm so profoundly grateful.
But who is your favorite mentee?
you are by so much, so many lengths.
(47:48):
Absolutely you are.
But Jamila's right there with you.
You and Jamila are tops.
We won't tell any of the other ones.
Yeah, no.
Shh.
You will keep that between us.
So, Bruce, there is a question that I ask everyone on the show.
What are you doing to show up in your life unapologetically?
(48:10):
Well, you know, I know you end your shows this way because I've heard
This on every show so I get ready for this for this One of the ten listeners.
Yeah, no, so I you know what I think at this stage um And I think you know this I think itis so important to let people know how you feel about them and to share the love and In a
(48:34):
very overt way that you have towards the people that are important to you in your lifethat to me You know is
guess what I am doing more today than I have ever done before.
So.
That's great.
I appreciate that.
It is.
important to to express and tell people what you mean to them.
(48:57):
So on that note, so profoundly grateful for you.
So thank you.
Thank you for your letting me into your world and your journey of being a business owner.
So it's been really meaningful to me.
So.
So anything else that you'd like to share about entrepreneurship, mentorship, business,life, parenthood that you've been dying to get off your chest?
(49:27):
Because I know there's some insights in there.
my gosh.
Well, one of the things I try to think about, and I'm not successful, particularly withyou when we meet.
But I've got to be listening 75 % of the time.
I talk way too much.
Probably the problem is you ask two good questions and then I start spouting off.
(49:49):
So we've shared a lot today.
I think as an entrepreneur, it can be lonely.
There's no reason to take this journey alone.
There are a lot of people who are looking to help provide advice and guidance and providea boost.
So it's too difficult to try and do it.
So look for the helpers.
(50:10):
Yeah.
Find a Bruce.
Find or even there's there's better Bruce's than this Bruce.
I am sure this is what we'll name that episode.
Better Bruce.
No, better.
Find a Bruce.
Find your Bruce.
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
For those of you tuning in, thank you for being here.
(50:31):
And if you have a little seed planted in your mind and are ready to say take the stepstowards entrepreneurship.
Um, know that you aren't alone.
Know there are people who are cheering for you.
Know that there is a seat at the table.
No idea is too big or too small.
The most important thing to do is to just start.
So take a minute, smash that follow button.
(50:56):
If you've got any questions, um, send us an email at podcast at unapologeticallyyours.com.
We want to hear from you and until next time, go out and make some mischief in the world.
Jump in puddles, make some noise, call your friends and tell them how important they areto you.
And until next time, I'm Ashley, this is Bruce, and we are unapologetically yours.
What people may or may not understand about entrepreneurship and leading a business isjust how taxing it can be.
It can be a very lonely journey when you're running your own business.
think especially for entrepreneurs, and maybe I'm un-thin-eyes here or not, I don't know,but I think especially for women entrepreneurs who are in charge of a family and raising
(00:23):
children, oftentimes.
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Unapologetically Yours podcast.
I'm your host Ashley Logan and I'm so happy to have you here today.
Unapologetically Yours is a podcast where we go deep on everything from spirituality torelationship and connection to business and belief systems.
(00:46):
Because in a world when we've been taught to play by the rules, it's time to liveunapologetically, right?
Absolutely.
So I'm so happy to have
one of my favorite people here as a guest today.
This man has been my mentor for really, I'm coming in five years.
Starting in the pandemic, I know, which is crazy.
(01:10):
And we were matched through a mentorship program and we took a personality test to see howwe could along and more on that later.
But long story short, for several years, we have met once a month to talk about everythingfrom
our businesses to life, to goal setting and beyond.
(01:32):
So I'd like to formally introduce Bruce Taylor.
is the former president of Cole Taylor Bank based here in Chicago and the founder of theNext Level Exchange.
Well, it's very nice to be here and to see you in a totally different context.
So thank you for inviting me.
Thank you.
(01:52):
Thank you for being here and thank you for being one of the 10 people who listen to thispodcast on a regular basis.
I'm there for you.
I get a lot out of them.
I appreciate that.
So I'm part of an organization called EO, Entrepreneurs Organization.
I've talked about it on the show before.
And Bruce is a member of an organization called YPO and YPO Gold now.
(02:19):
what those organizations have in common are
bringing like-minded leaders of businesses together in learning, in camaraderie, insharing of information.
And I grew up, because my dad was a member of YPO and had exposure to how beneficial theserelationships can be and how important.
(02:41):
So what made you want to become a mentor?
That's a good question.
Well, I think overall, I feel like I've been very fortunate.
in the opportunity to grow up with two very significant mentors in my life.
Not that they were formal, but the informal mentorship can be very important in my fatherand my grandfather.
(03:07):
And the opportunity that I had through them to learn, to listen to conversations, to uhget the benefit of their experiences was huge.
So fast forward.
now 60 some years.
And in addition to wanting to give back in a meaningful way and share the experiences,because we've had through our family business and the banking business, you know, we had
(03:34):
some really positive successes and we had some really nightmarish challenges that we hadto go through.
It's a roller coaster ride when you're running your own business and wanting to share and
kind of give back uniquely what I've learned through my experiences of the things thatwere successful and sharing the mistakes that I've made and what I've learned from those
(04:01):
mistakes.
I say that tongue in cheek, but there were plenty of mistakes and doing it for the benefitof somebody else, it just is one of really the highlights of this stage of my life.
In addition to that, the relationships that you established through
the mentoring programs I'm involved in, have been extremely meaningful.
(04:23):
And we can get more into that, but it's a wonderful way to give back.
Well, I think that when people may or may not understand about entrepreneurship andleading a business is just how taxing it can be emotionally, spiritually, physically, all
across the board.
And the importance of building community.
(04:46):
and not trying to be the smartest person in the room, but surrounding yourself with peoplewho can maybe help guide or can help take the load off or just commiserate in the day to
day.
It's really meaningful.
It's absolutely.
And it can be a very lonely journey when you're running your own business.
(05:07):
think especially for entrepreneurs and maybe a month and I sure or not.
don't know.
but I think especially for women entrepreneurs who are in charge of a family and raisingchildren oftentimes.
And I am amazed at the demands that are being placed on them and their ability to continueto build a business and navigate all of the challenges that is involved in that as they're
(05:34):
also maybe primarily responsible for children in the home and so forth.
I'm not sure when Ashley Logan actually sleeps, but there's a lot on your plate.
But again, it can be lonely and having somebody who can be an advocate, an advisor,somebody to share or bounce ideas off of can be meaningful.
(05:58):
Yeah.
Well, I have to say that one of the highlights of my business experience has been workingwith you.
And that's nice of you to say.
It's true.
Well, people will be like, oh, OK, you've got got lunch with your mentor.
I'm like, you mean my best friend, Bruce?
Well, one of the things you mentioned, and this is funny, and I still remember this fromwhen we first met this culture index personality test and why they matched us because we
(06:26):
have some similarities.
Sorry about that, Ashley, but you have some similarities to me.
But we.
We actually learned we both like to talk a lot and enjoy and meet people and get to knowwhat makes people tick and so forth.
And we were advised to not let our discussions devolve into something that is greatconversation, but we never get anything done.
(06:51):
But I think we kind of navigate that pretty well.
So.
I think so.
We figured out how to, we go and then we make our way.
back.
So what do you think in your experience are the key components of a mentor relationship?
First of all, it's a willingness to be an advocate and to meet the person, the mentee thatyou're working with where they're at, not based on my expectation.
(07:17):
I'm not a director of that business.
I'm not a lender.
I'm not an investor.
It's really about meeting the entrepreneur where they're at.
And then understanding how I can best
advocate, how I can be a really good listener, ask some good questions, and provide some,whether it's access to my social network or resources that I'm aware of.
(07:43):
But I think at the end of the day, flexible, being flexible, resourceful, willing to alsolearn from the mentee, because I've learned a lot from you over time, and just being that
advocate.
you know, for the business owner that you're working with.
Yeah, I think that's so true.
(08:04):
So.
Well, I've learned a lot from you as well.
And I think the other thing that I would add to that is consistency.
So every time that we end a meeting, we make sure to schedule the next session.
So it's on the books and that we're.
Yeah, you're always on the hook to meet with me.
Always on the hook.
One of the important things you do that I appreciate, and I think it's important in amentoring relationship is.
(08:29):
you spend a little bit of time at least to prepare an agenda before our meetings.
Now that may be, I don't know, I'm guessing you don't sweat about it for 24 hours, butmaybe a few minutes before.
But I think that helps give our discussion a little bit of structure.
And so it gives you the opportunity to think about what are the most important things youwant to discuss?
(08:51):
What's the takeaway you want to take from any particular meeting?
Yeah, yeah.
So.
No, absolutely.
And I don't necessarily have all the answers.
And no mentor is going to have all the answers.
But having the opportunity to discuss things that may be a little uncomfortable ordifficult to discuss because it exposes a vulnerability, uh it's important.
(09:16):
And even if I can't respond or provide some meaningful feedback, there are people that Iknow that I hopefully could talk to, tap into that.
could fill a gap that maybe I can't necessarily fill.
Yeah.
Well, and the other thing too that I think is important and that you're great about is notnecessarily giving advice, but asking questions to help people thoughtfully consider.
(09:43):
So how do you think that people in entrepreneur leader types, how do they react to givingadvice?
First of all, I don't think a role of a mentor is to tell the mentee what to do.
It's your business, you know it.
And I found out through my career, there's more than one way, there's more than my way toget something accomplished and something meaningful and positive accomplished.
(10:06):
So I think that has to be done in a very judicious way.
I mean, I can share an experience of, know, if there's a particular topic and I can sharewhat I did and what the result was, whether it was good, bad, or indifferent.
But I don't think
As successful as anybody has been in their business career, there have been plenty ofmistakes and there are other ways to get things accomplished.
(10:32):
And to think that somebody has the one right way to make something happen is probably notactually true.
There are many ways to get things done.
you know, as when I thought I was on the right course of doing something and realized itwasn't necessarily the right course and not going to produce the results I wanted, you
(10:52):
know, that makes me very aware today.
to be very careful about telling anybody what to do in their business.
You know it better than anybody.
So, you know, I can, I can lob in advice sometimes from the grandstands, but you know,you're the one that has to live with it, execute, and know all the different aspects of,
(11:15):
uh you know, what possibly would make it a good decision or not a good decision or courseof action.
Sure.
Well, and also like advising people
It creates sort of an emotional hierarchy, I think, to some extent, where that one personknows better than the other.
And I think that when, that most people sort of tense up when someone starts telling themwhat to do or giving should statements, how they should do something or what they should
(11:47):
not do.
And I think about how through these entrepreneur organizations and that
sort of coaching that they provide around interacting with one another as peers andmentorships and is the gestalt type mindset where you're not necessarily taking that
hierarchical position of looking down and telling someone what you do or not do.
(12:14):
But this extends so much beyond just business relationships and into personalrelationships too.
think it's hard for us type A type people who like to get shit done to not try to controlother people's outcomes.
think um people naturally, I think, especially an entrepreneur, a founder of a business,business owner, get fairly defensive when you tell them what to do.
(12:41):
And
ah I'll reiterate maybe in a slightly different way.
I don't know all of the players in your company and clients that you serve and the demandsthat are being made by various stakeholders.
I wouldn't know that necessarily in any mentor mentee relationship.
You know that as best.
(13:02):
So I can jump to a conclusion, tell you what to do, and miss some very important aspectsthat are kind of rate limiting factors when you have to decide.
What's the right thing to do?
What's the right course of action to take?
But I will say, one of the things that I've noticed, I think it's related, two pointsrelated to this.
(13:23):
One is the mentees that I've worked with that have been most successful are those that arelike sponges.
And I know I'm not the only person giving advice to you or to some of the other menteesI've worked with.
That's so much smarter than I was when I was growing up in my career.
Because I felt like if I couldn't know the answer myself, then I shouldn't be doing whatI'm doing.
(13:45):
But that's absolutely wrong.
The willingness to seek advice and input from others, I think is one of the criticalsuccess factors for success in running, starting up and running your own business.
I think you do that, some of the other mentees that I work with do that.
I think getting that input from others.
(14:06):
different sources I think is really important.
There's another interesting aspect about I think being a good mentor and that is I don'tknow if my children, my adult children who are now in their 40s and mid 30s uh will be
listening to this podcast but it has made me a better parent to my adult children where Ican consciously take the tape out of my head that deals with them as teenagers and puts in
(14:35):
the tape with
dealing with them as professionals, responsible adults, people who are accomplished intheir own way.
I get a lot further with my children not telling them what to do or accusing them of doingsomething like they always did when they were in high school, but asking, again, asking
(14:58):
good questions, sharing experiences, and letting them talk through the situations thatthey're involved with.
It opens the conversation up.
I would say new possibilities, new thoughts, new ideas.
and instead of shutting somebody down with a wall of advice, which is what it really is,it creates a wall.
(15:18):
Well, so one of the things I think about is being part of these entrepreneur organizationslike YPO or EO, prestigious organizations with very, very well-connected people.
And so naturally through that, it allows people to uplift one another at this.
playing field.
And that's to the benefit of the business community at large and to communities at large.
(15:42):
um But one of the things I think about a lot, and I know you do too, is how to um bring upother entrepreneurs or business owners maybe who don't have the same access to these
organizations, who don't have the same access to incredible mentors who can help pave theway either because
(16:04):
their socioeconomic status and they weren't born in a position where they automaticallyknow people who are more connected or have other barriers.
So tell me a little bit about how you feel about bringing other entrepreneurs up in theworld.
Yeah.
Well, as you know, I was born and raised and my and raised my family all in the Chicagoarea.
(16:29):
I love Chicago.
Even in the winter, I love Chicago and
When I left my full-time role at the bank back in 2014, I wanted to give back in a lot ofways, but in one way in particular in helping create more economic opportunity throughout
(16:51):
all of Chicago.
And through a fair amount of networking and discovery, I met a woman who was running theentrepreneurship program.
at the Chicago Urban League.
And as I learned, there are many different organizations in the city that are supporting avery diverse group of emerging business owners and entrepreneurs.
(17:17):
And she had mentioned to me that the one thing she had not yet been able to accomplish wasa mentoring program.
And I said, aha.
Wait, you know a thing or two about mentoring.
I have an idea.
This is in 2017, we launched our first group.
think it can be incredibly.
And this is through.
So you this led you to founding the next level exchange.
(17:41):
So we started with the Chicago Urban League, then Sunshine Enterprises joined us.
And then about a year later, the Women's Business Development Center.
And I just think we have found a very meaningful way for established businessprofessionals, business owners to give back uniquely.
you know, their gifts of their experience, their skills, their networks, their resourcesto a group that as we are more successful and as they are more successful become very
(18:15):
vested in this entrepreneurial experience we have all had, so many of us in so manydifferent communities that make Chicago what it is.
The established business
community here in Chicago giving back in a very unique way can make a significant impactover time and helping these business owners and their businesses become more successful
(18:38):
more quickly.
Whether that's creating jobs, careers, wealth, you know, within their own community.
I've seen this in many other communities here in Chicago, what that entrepreneurialexperience is like over the course of
multiple generations.
And I think that can have the same type of impact uh throughout all of the Chicago area,especially in areas and neighborhoods that are either overlooked or under-resourced
(19:11):
currently.
And there's a lot of great ideas, a lot of very energetic people who are working hard toestablish uh businesses within these communities.
And not all of them are going to be successful.
That's true in any community.
Being a banker, I saw plenty of people with what maybe you would call a lot of privilege,not end up being successful in their business ventures, but some of them will be.
(19:38):
And I think one of the most important things that you get out of successful entrepreneursis role models for others to follow.
I mean, one of the things that I'm most proud about regarding our program is when we askone of our mentees,
to become a mentor because of their experience and what they've learned and what they haveachieved.
(20:01):
Now it's a very hard sell because entrepreneurs are really busy and these people arerunning around spinning a lot of plates at the same do you mean?
Yeah, really, you have no idea.
You have no idea.
But there such important role models like the role models that I had, not only of my...
(20:22):
father and my grandfather, but the people in and around the community that I grew up inand was able to define what success can look like following an entrepreneurial or business
career.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that what's so cool about what you did was you took the experience thatyou had of one being mentored by those in your life and then also being a mentor to other
(20:51):
entrepreneurs.
and then created that roadmap to extend to communities with less resources.
And then you formally built that program.
Tell me a little bit more about how the organization has grown and how people listeningcan get involved.
Yeah, so we are the Next Level Exchange.
(21:11):
You can find us at nextlevelexchange.org on the internet.
We're always looking for mentors.
We're always looking for new mentees.
One of the interesting aspects about this, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, is that thisis a collaborative effort across more than one nonprofit organization supporting
entrepreneurs.
(21:32):
We have probably paired close to 300 mentors and mentees since the start.
This past year was uh really, I think, the beginning of an inflection point for theprogram when we actually hired our first full-time program director.
who's doing a marvelous job.
Shout out to Amy.
(21:52):
Hi, Amy.
You're doing a great job.
um And so as we continue to build the program, not only in terms of scale and the numberof people we touch, but also the value we add, where we can help identify business
opportunities for the mentees, continue to create meaningful networking opportunities,educational opportunities, and can hear from and to allow
(22:18):
the entrepreneurs in the program to hear from successful business owners about theirjourney.
I know I got that experience a lot in YPO when they had something called in the boardroomtype luncheon discussions where somebody would talk about how they built their business
and the ups and downs.
I think those are important learnings and opportunities for learning that we can sharewith the participants in the program.
(22:46):
So first of all, I think it's just amazing that you built this from the ground up and havefound sort of this pathway for entrepreneurs of all levels to give back.
And that's really impressive because it matters.
so what do you think are some of the benefits for the community around uplifting businessowners and new ventures?
(23:12):
Somebody once asked me at a planning session for this program,
several years ago.
So why are you doing it?
um Why is this important to you?
I think at the end of the day, it really is about I get a better place to live.
When there's more economic opportunity, more career opportunity, more wealth creationopportunity throughout all of Chicago, every one of us, whether you live in the suburbs or
(23:40):
in the city, on the north side or the south side, is gonna end up with a better home.
because the reverse is also true.
When there are challenges in our community, it affects all of us.
It may not affect us at that moment, but it affects opportunity, think, for everybody herein Chicago.
So I think we get a better home.
We get more economic opportunity.
(24:02):
We have more people who are invested in what I think is one of the greatest expressions ofliberty.
Don't want to get all mushy here, but liberty in...
in America and that is the opportunity to start and build a business and to earn therewards from a successful journey of building a business.
(24:26):
And so more people invested in that and I also think when you create ultimately a criticalmass of successful businesses in any community, it begins to build on itself and it
creates.
uh Opportunities sort of like this flywheel concept that I think Stephen Covey or wasn'tgood to great one of those books had mentioned that um You know it creates this critical
(24:51):
massive continuing activity.
So when we're looking at the entrepreneurial landscape are all opportunities createdequal.
Oh absolutely not.
You know, there are some businesses that are much more difficult, at least from myobservation as a banker.
Our focus as a company was working with owner-operated family-owned businesses.
(25:16):
And I saw that there are some industries and types of businesses that are just harder.
Subcontracting in the construction business can be very difficult ah as an example.
Being a contractor in general, major contracts that you have to manage over the course oftime could be multiple months to...
over a year managing large contracts, construction projects can be very difficult.
(25:41):
So no, mean, different opportunities, em you know, are, doesn't necessarily mean youcan't, shouldn't pursue them, but they're gonna have inherent in them some different risks
and different challenges.
Real estate's a good example.
Real estate can be a feast in famine business.
I mean, we learned that during the financial crisis.
(26:04):
The great recession in 2008, uh home building, it basically falls off a cliff.
And we did experience that in spades.
So that real estate can be very lucrative, can be a very positive career, but also just tobe aware that it can be also very volatile.
(26:24):
So what advice do you have for someone who's just getting started on theirentrepreneurial?
because I know there's a lot of people listening who have a seed that's planted in theirmind that maybe they haven't taken that first step on yet.
uh so what do you have to say to that person?
ah This is not the easy path.
(26:47):
Being an entrepreneur is not the easy path.
It is, in many respects, the harder path.
Because if the owner doesn't get it done, oftentimes it doesn't get done, whatever thatdone is.
realizing that it is a challenge.
It's a journey.
It's a lifestyle choice.
I know when I was running the business, I never really left the company.
(27:08):
I was thinking about it all the time, oftentimes dreaming about it.
My father coined a term about the three o'clock in the morning sweats he would get wakingup worrying about the latest series of problems that might have been occurring.
So I'm laughing to myself because for the last three nights I have had.
3 a.m.
(27:28):
Well, you just may be sick, but hopefully.
Probably a combination of a bunch of things.
Yeah.
political turmoil.
Yeah.
So it's not necessarily easy.
It can be a hard path, but it also can be an incredibly rewarding path.
I mean, the opportunity to be your own boss, the opportunity to build something that hasnever existed before, the opportunity to be very creative.
(27:54):
It's going to take a lot of perseverance, a lot of energy.
I would suggest get a lot of input, get a lot of help, find advisors, friends, peers.
Mentors.
Mentors oh who can help you along the way.
Oftentimes testing your idea out while you may be working full time in one job, butfinding ways to test something out to see if it's viable, uh if that's a possibility,
(28:22):
whether it's a retail concept of some type or.
some consulting or advising type of business to see if you can generate the...
The number one thing to generate, obviously, is revenue.
So can you begin to generate the revenue that will give you a chance to sustain and builda business?
(28:44):
It's so true.
mean, and right now, not that you're suggesting that someone leans on the corporate dollarto go ahead and get started on something else.
But by the way, that's a really good strategy.
While you're gainfully employed, you...
I don't wanna tell people to not go the extra mile working those late hours at their dayjob, but at the same time, if you're passionate about something, you have a seed that's
(29:08):
planted and you wanna get something done, it's never been easier.
There's never been more resources to do that because it's easy to build a website.
It's easy to...
ah I don't wanna suggest that it's easy to start a business, but...
The word side hustle is something that people understand.
First of all, I feel busted, so I'm busted, but no, there are many businesses, and thisgoes back even prior times, that get started at night or on the weekends.
(29:38):
Yeah, I'm not suggesting you don't do your job for your day job.
That's how I started with Yakety Yak.
Actually kind of funny, because I'd started Yakety Yak, but I was working at an agency.
and I was freelancing for the Sun Times.
And they all knew about each other.
So when I had downtime at the agency, I was working on my own business and thenfreelancing in the meantime.
(30:03):
And I gradually dropped those other parts till I was full time with Yakity Yak.
You know, it can start as a hobby.
If you're thinking about baking and wanting to open a bakery, you can start that somewhatout of your own.
home kitchen or as a bakery, as a hobby, and kind of build it from there.
(30:24):
uh And we have, I know we've had several salon owners who've started doing hair salonservices in their homes on the weekends before they went out and took the leap to leave
their current full-time employment and start their own full-time salon business.
(30:45):
So those are.
couple of examples I think about.
It also is interesting to me when I think about some of the customers that we dealt withat the bank that I loved.
And one that I think of was a letter envelope converter.
I won't say their name because they might get upset with me, but I love this customer andthe story about how they started their business in their garage with one little machine
(31:11):
and were able to persevere.
to be resourceful and to build what has become a multi-million dollar business.
So there are a lot of these businesses that are very well established, well known, thatgot very meager starts in somebody's garage.
Well, I think the part of that too is that when we have such a mindset around performanceand revenue and growth and all of those things, and it's really part of our capitalistic
(31:40):
culture.
that sometimes it can be intimidating to start something because people will be like,okay, well, what are you gonna do with that?
And ask a lot of questions about how it's going to grow and where it's gonna be in thefuture.
And I think it's okay to get started without necessarily having those answers and takingall of those little wins in stride because those little wins are really important and a
(32:03):
collection of little wins builds a foundation for growth and.
and other things.
So I totally agree with you that starting in the garage, starting in the home kitchen, allof that, it's a start and should be celebrated.
But starting off and thinking that you need to be up here can be a really big barrier forjust taking the baby steps to start.
(32:24):
oh And there's a lot of on the job learning that occurs when you're running, I don't carewhat business, that life changes, circumstances change.
um
You know, I think about the wonderful job some of our mentees did as COVID broke out andall the shutdowns and how they pivoted so quickly to morph their business into something
(32:48):
that could survive, you know, a huge shock to them.
But that's not something anybody plans for.
And you don't necessarily need to have a very fancy, glossy operating plan every year.
Having somewhat of a plan, having some objectives and how you can achieve them isimportant.
But you can probably do that on a page, maybe at most two.
(33:11):
But the doing is really important and learning from the doing is also really important.
And what's working and what's not working.
And that's also, I think, what's important going back to not giving advice.
I mean, you have more contact with your clients and what they like and what they don'tlike.
I felt that way about our bank customers.
They let us know what the competition was doing.
(33:33):
They let us know where we were doing well and maybe where.
we were falling short.
So that type of information in your connection to your clients and other stakeholders isreally critical in learning on the job.
I'll just put it that way.
I think taking the time to reflect is important.
(33:54):
more than that, and that goes back to the mentee mentor relationship, is that it is amoment of reflection when you're coming together and sharing your updates and have a
chance to respond to questions.
that someone's asking about your business and about you as the whole person.
I think that that's one of the things I value so much about you is that when you're askingme questions about my business and we're checking in, it's a great chance for me to
(34:19):
reflect on, okay, what is actually true about my business right now?
What is true about the direction?
What are the opportunities?
What are the things I'm missing?
But you're asking me those questions, not as someone who is a stakeholder in the businesswho's tied to its performance.
but an advocate of me, the person, the whole person who is not just a business owner, butan entrepreneur and podcast host and fire starter and all sorts of other.
(34:48):
All that good stuff.
All that good stuff.
it's nice to have someone who can see the full picture and then ask questions to supportthe full picture.
Yeah.
As you were talking, what came to mind was work-life balance.
And one of the
I think a really successful mentoring relationship not only deals with a business, butwhat's going on in the mentors and mentees personal lives.
(35:15):
Because there, you know, I've said this a lot over the course of time, that when you arerunning your own business, what happens in your personal life affects your business and
what happens in the business impacts your personal life.
You can't really separate the two.
So having the willingness and
uh openness to deal with both sides of what makes you the whole person that you are.
(35:41):
And part of that, one that comes to mind is work-life balance and how do you get it?
That was important when I was coming up in my career and it's equally important now and itsurprises me sometimes what small shifts can do in terms of the impact, the big impact
that they can have.
I'll give you one example.
Yeah, tell us about that because I don't know if you guys,
(36:04):
Bruce, you ran one of the largest banks in the Midwest and it was eventually sold to?
We merged with MB and then we all merged with Fifth Third.
OK.
And a family business, legacy business, you were under a lot of pressure when you wererunning this organization.
So and you had three kids.
(36:24):
Well, I had a very supportive spouse and Barbie was was great.
We had a very we organized ourselves in a very traditional way.
um that enabled me to spend a lot of time at work.
Looking back now, I'm thinking, well, maybe I didn't have to spend all that time.
think one of the benefits of maybe today's world, FaceTime is less important, but that maybe for a different episode for you.
(36:52):
But the one change that I made, because it was when our kids were little, and so I'mthinking in the late 80s, early 90s.
um
You know, I would work six days a week.
It made a huge difference when I started coming home for lunch on Saturdays.
That it was just at least for me.
I don't know about for I think also for Barbie and the kids that I left work and justspent that that rest of that day with the family and took some of the burden off of Barbie
(37:23):
and obviously took Sunday off.
I never got to the end of the to do list.
I think that's another issue we should talk about it another oh episode.
ah But there's always something to do.
That situation struck me as it was a little change that had a very big impact in improvingfamily relationships.
(37:44):
So one of the things that I really appreciate about you is your capacity for curiosity,always learning new things, open minded to new perspectives.
What's something that had you known now that you would have done differently?
Well, you know what?
(38:05):
There's this saying about give credit and take responsibility.
Another way that I think about that is catching people doing things right.
I would have done a lot more of that.
I mean, there were times when I felt the weight of the world was on my shoulders runningour company when things weren't going well.
(38:26):
And it was hard for me to do that.
But if I were to do something different now as being my genuine, interested, curious self,but also catching people doing something right, encouraging them, being positive with
them, yeah, it doesn't mean that you don't address issues that might be coming up.
When you feel the weight of the world is on your shoulders, it's hard to do that.
(38:49):
You know, when you're worried and concerned and overwhelmed, it's sometimes hard to givethat credit.
give that positive feedback to people.
As much as you possibly can, I would definitely have done that.
It's so much about finding the right people.
And that's the hardest, I think, part of almost every business is getting the right peoplein the right places in the company.
(39:16):
We weren't always successful about it.
And oftentimes, you know, we hired some...
big name professionals in the banking business that didn't work out so well.
uh But I would say the last six to eight years of the company before we merged, we had awonderful opportunity.
(39:39):
If I could boil my career down to two decisions I made, one of them was bringing in awhole team of bankers and executives from our primary competitor.
who did a wonderful job.
were great people.
The opportunities that arose from the financial crisis crisis.
(39:59):
Yeah.
know what?
Thank God we were smart enough to take advantage of it.
they uh being they did a wonderful job, know, sometimes keeping your eyes open andchanging your plan when an opportunity arises, you know, is as important as identifying a
risk and trying to mitigate it as best you can.
(40:20):
So I think.
And also even with mentorship, there's also, would guess, you as you observe, anyoneobserves people they've worked for, what they do that they like and what they do that they
really don't like.
Those are important learnings too, to kind of tuck away.
What do you like what your boss does for you?
(40:41):
And what do you really don't like?
And I think those are important learnings too.
So in any event, people are really important.
And hard to get it right.
Amen.
Amen to that.
They're the most important part of the business.
And they are.
(41:02):
It's hard to get right.
I chew on that a little bit because I think for anyone who's looking to build a team,doing things like taking a personality test, like culture index, so you could know that
you're a good match is important.
especially as you think about like role allocation and different things like that in thescaling part.
(41:23):
Going back to the next level exchange.
So right now you have had over 300 pairings of mentee mentors and which is making a hugedifference in the business landscape in the city of Chicago.
And so what are your goals over the next couple of years and how can what qualifiessomeone to be uh a mentee or a mentors if
(41:47):
should they want to be involved in the program?
Can I mention something first before I answer your question?
Of course.
So one of the uh additional benefits of this program is the relationships that are beingcreated between people who would have otherwise never met one another from different
communities, different cultures.
(42:08):
There are so many walls that exist in our city, in our area that these bridges being uh
built between these different individuals and the communities they represent.
We've heard from our mentors, it's one of the most valuable things they get out ofparticipating in the program.
know, that's A sense of community is so, and so important.
(42:31):
That's been very rewarding to see happen and the commitment so many people in theestablished business community have towards this program and the mentees they're working
with.
With the entrepreneurs, the mentees that we work with.
We're generally looking for people who've been in business for a couple years who eitherhave made it their full-time job or are considering making it their full-time job.
(42:57):
And so generally at least $25,000 a year in sales.
ah But we also make exceptions.
And those exceptions are based on the organization that they come through and how theyenter in the program.
One of the three partner organizations.
If they feel
that they're ready, then we'll make the exception and make sure that we find hopefully thebest mentor we can for them.
(43:22):
And that's again, the Urban League Women's Business Development Center and SunshineEnterprises.
That's where about 90 % currently of our mentees come from.
The mentors are people who have been in business for about 10 years, who've had eithersome extensive professional experience or managerial experience or ownership experience.
(43:44):
It's a very diverse group.
I mean, even just age demographic.
I think that one of the youngest mentors we had was in his young thirties.
And some of the mentors we have are in their seventies.
We have a lot of women, we have a lot of men, we have mentors of color.
So it's, uh you know, a very diverse group.
(44:05):
uh And so, you know, we're fortunate.
And that was one of the litmus tests for me about the sustainability of this program.
is to continue to attract people in the traditional business community to give back inthis very meaningful way.
You know, as far as what I hope, like I said, I hope we uh will add more organizations tothis effort.
(44:33):
We'll see more success that's very tangible and very meaningful.
You know, I've mentioned to you before a woman who I've mentored, uh who founded Ladies ofVirtue when we first started.
She had only volunteer help, and now I think she has a staff of close to 10.
(44:54):
or maybe more people that she's paying because of the expansion and growth of hernonprofit program.
More stories like that, more opportunities that we're giving the entrepreneurs in theprogram to find new markets and new opportunities for them to do business, not only within
their community, but outside their community, if that's the interest of the entrepreneur.
(45:19):
And when we...
continue to create a community of mentors who are kind of like-minded and want to giveback in this way because they find value in this work and they know it's important um to
creating that home we all want to live in here in the Chicago area.
So.
It's a really, really impressive thing that you're doing.
(45:41):
And because it not only uplifts the business owners who, let's face it,
We entrepreneurs need all the support and compassion that we can get.
And you don't get it necessarily.
You really have to fight to build your own community.
And in some cases, you might be lucky enough to join a group like YPO or EO.
(46:05):
And other times, you're scraping by and trying to find people who understand and speak thelanguage and get all of the headaches.
and joys of being in business.
But more than that, it's about the impact that each of these businesses can make bycreating jobs, by uh creating new paths.
(46:29):
And I think that what we need to remember is that there's room at the table for everyone.
There is endless opportunities to create wealth and abundance in businesses.
And by extending
a hand to the next person and bringing them along and sharing networks and sharinginformation and helping to build community, it really is to the benefit of everyone.
(46:57):
All of us here.
So absolutely, I'm very lucky to have found something that I do for free.
I don't get paid for this and I love it.
Somebody is very lucky if they find a career that they would do even if they didn't getpaid.
And I would do this.
So I'm fortunate to have the opportunity.
I feel so lucky to have miraculously been matched with you and that we've built such agreat rapport and you've been such a huge impact in my life just from being a friend and
(47:28):
then also uh making introductions that have been so helpful and connecting me with peoplewho might give me those insights that maybe I would have otherwise overlooked.
So I'm so profoundly grateful.
But who is your favorite mentee?
you are by so much, so many lengths.
(47:48):
Absolutely you are.
But Jamila's right there with you.
You and Jamila are tops.
We won't tell any of the other ones.
Yeah, no.
Shh.
You will keep that between us.
So, Bruce, there is a question that I ask everyone on the show.
What are you doing to show up in your life unapologetically?
(48:10):
Well, you know, I know you end your shows this way because I've heard
This on every show so I get ready for this for this One of the ten listeners.
Yeah, no, so I you know what I think at this stage um And I think you know this I think itis so important to let people know how you feel about them and to share the love and In a
(48:34):
very overt way that you have towards the people that are important to you in your lifethat to me You know is
guess what I am doing more today than I have ever done before.
So.
That's great.
I appreciate that.
It is.
important to to express and tell people what you mean to them.
(48:57):
So on that note, so profoundly grateful for you.
So thank you.
Thank you for your letting me into your world and your journey of being a business owner.
So it's been really meaningful to me.
So.
So anything else that you'd like to share about entrepreneurship, mentorship, business,life, parenthood that you've been dying to get off your chest?
(49:27):
Because I know there's some insights in there.
my gosh.
Well, one of the things I try to think about, and I'm not successful, particularly withyou when we meet.
But I've got to be listening 75 % of the time.
I talk way too much.
Probably the problem is you ask two good questions and then I start spouting off.
(49:49):
So we've shared a lot today.
I think as an entrepreneur, it can be lonely.
There's no reason to take this journey alone.
There are a lot of people who are looking to help provide advice and guidance and providea boost.
So it's too difficult to try and do it.
So look for the helpers.
(50:10):
Yeah.
Find a Bruce.
Find or even there's there's better Bruce's than this Bruce.
I am sure this is what we'll name that episode.
Better Bruce.
No, better.
Find a Bruce.
Find your Bruce.
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
For those of you tuning in, thank you for being here.
(50:31):
And if you have a little seed planted in your mind and are ready to say take the stepstowards entrepreneurship.
Um, know that you aren't alone.
Know there are people who are cheering for you.
Know that there is a seat at the table.
No idea is too big or too small.
The most important thing to do is to just start.
So take a minute, smash that follow button.
(50:56):
If you've got any questions, um, send us an email at podcast at unapologeticallyyours.com.
We want to hear from you and until next time, go out and make some mischief in the world.
Jump in puddles, make some noise, call your friends and tell them how important they areto you.
And until next time, I'm Ashley, this is Bruce, and we are unapologetically yours.
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