April 13, 2025 • 53 mins
My guest this episode is Kim Butler, of Urban Homestead Hub. Kim is a Master Gardener, urban homesteader, and SEO strategist, blending her expertise in DIY sustainability, digital business, and community resilience to empower modern city dwellers to take control of their resources. With her years of experience Kimberly shares practical, no-nonsense tips on growing food in apartments, reducing reliance on store-bought goods, and preparing for uncertain times—without needing acres of land. You can find her online and follow her on the socials, which is where I found her!
Kim Butler/Urban Homestead Hub
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Homesteading.
It's a growing trend, but can you do
it in the city?
Kim Butler of Urban Homestead Hub is doing
it, and she talks about how you can
do it too.
Hi, it's the Urban Lady Prepper, and my
guest this episode is Kim Butler of Urban
(00:21):
Homestead Hub.
Kim is a master gardener, urban homesteader, and
SEO strategist, blending her expertise in DIY sustainability,
digital business, and community resilience to empower modern
city dwellers to take control of their resources.
With her years of experience, Kim shares practical,
no-nonsense tips on growing food in apartments,
reducing reliance on store-bought goods, and preparing
(00:44):
for uncertain times without needing acres of land.
You can find her online at urbanhomesteadhub.com
and follow her on the socials, which is
where I found her.
I'll include her links in the show description.
So, Kim, thanks for being on the show.
We got into the mid-80s today in
Atlanta.
Was it unusually warm down there in Florida
(01:04):
today, too?
I wouldn't say unusual, but it's in the
90s right now for the next couple of
days, so I guess that is a little
unusual.
Seems a little early.
That's already hot.
So you're out in Tampa now, correct?
I've been in Tampa for a little bit
over a year.
(01:24):
How are you liking it so far?
I like it a little better than Orlando.
There's definitely more of a push for gardens.
They have the Coalition of Community Gardens down
here.
The mayor has been sectioning off funds for
people to join these gardens.
She'll come to different conferences.
So, yeah, I feel like there's definitely much
(01:45):
more interest here, and so that's why I
think I like it a little bit better
than where I was.
Okay, so you've always been in Florida.
It's not like you moved from up north
or something like that.
I'm originally from California, and I left California.
That's a long story, but I left California
to move to Germany.
I've not in the service.
I just really liked Berlin and moved out
(02:07):
there for about five years, and then I
moved to Atlanta, and that's where I heard
about the Master Gardener program, and then I
moved to Orlando.
I'm in Atlanta now, and I haven't got
into the Master Gardener thing, but what got
you started on your journey with this whole
thing?
Did you intend to become a Master Gardener,
(02:28):
or was it just happenstance?
Really just happenstance.
I had friends that gardened.
I never thought I could grow a plant
and decided to just go to a community
garden when I moved to Georgia, and then
that's when somebody was like, would you be
interested in that?
And then I moved to Orlando and decided
(02:48):
to take the chance.
I think it was the first year of
COVID, where they had the online courses, so
I was able to get the designation.
So there was absolutely no in-person group
situation because of COVID, or it was just
all strictly online?
Yeah.
Ours was strictly online for Zoom sessions, and
then afterwards I was able to get my
hours, and now I do a lot more
(03:10):
in-person events when I can.
And how long did that process take?
It takes about 11 weeks, so I think
it's pretty simple, especially if you're doing it
online.
You have a lot of books that you
can read, and every week we're going through
the chapters and quizzes and stuff like that,
so it's pretty simple to get a grasp
(03:30):
of.
For someone who might be gardening and growing
some of their own food right now, how
much of a leap is it from what
they're already doing to taking a course like
that?
What would be the big takeaway for them
to make that move?
I would say if you have the interest,
because I didn't even have the space in
a lot of the subjects about palms and
(03:51):
things.
I was just never going to experience a
lot of things about lawns.
I was never really going to experience personally.
So find the subject that you like, and
it's pretty general.
It's a lot of vegetable gardening, a lot
of bug identification, leaf identification, and then just
kind of focus on that.
Now, are you a prepper as well as
(04:11):
a gardener?
Because I think that if you're gardening, you're
already kind of prepping, but are you doing
other sort of prepper type things other than
that?
I think I am a baby prepper.
There actually is a really cool store.
I remember Marietta, Georgia.
That is a whole prepper store, and they
would teach classes, and I would go over
there, and that was my first introduction into
(04:33):
prepping, and I knew if I was going
to move to Florida and they had these
hurricanes that I should at least have two
weeks out of some water or some access
to get clean water and then candles and
things like that and just having canned goods
and stuff like that.
So I would say definitely new.
(04:54):
Is this something that you think you're going
to get deeper into?
Oh yeah.
I have definitely met people who are so
much down the pipeline, so I feel like
there's so much to learn, and with the
hurricane season that we had last year, and
I think it's going to get worse, I
think it's time for me to really start
investing.
I've been looking more at like a power
(05:15):
source to have if things go off for
a while or a bug out bag, things
like that to have.
Well, I'm happy to help you with that.
That's kind of like my whole thing, but
one of the things that I try to
do is, because it's a whole urban thing,
is to let people know that there are
(05:37):
community gardens.
Yes, you can grow things in a small
space in an apartment.
So with people looking to grow more their
own food, what advice would you give someone
who's just starting to get into gardening?
Start small.
Start with things that you want to grow
and then look at the back of the
(05:57):
seeds.
I would never recommend for somebody new to
start with just seeds and putting them in
the ground.
I would say if you have maybe a
small hydroponic setup, I have one on my
counter, or just something really easy like that
where it's just plug and play, then sure,
you can start with seeds, but if it's
in the ground, I would definitely say start
(06:17):
with transplants, start with herbs, easy to grow
herbs like parsley, cilantro, and then figure out
what you can grow in your area, when
is the best time of year.
I was just having a conversation with somebody
talking about growing carrots and potatoes and broccoli
(06:37):
and just all types of different stuff that
I was like, you cannot do all of
that together.
Please don't do all of that.
Carrots were not fun.
They're not easy.
But one of the things that I express
to people, especially if they're starting out, there's
no shame in getting baby plants or getting
(06:58):
something from the store.
Just go to the store, get the little
organic already started pepper plant just to help
build confidence and that you don't have to
stress out whether or not this is going
to sprout, because that was very stressful when
I first started getting into gardening and growing
from seeds.
Since it's hit or miss, we might not
get anything.
(07:19):
Can you also encourage that, not feel like
you have to start out growing from seeds,
just get that plant, get those plants from
the store or the home improvement place and
go for it?
Oh yeah, I still do.
I'm not getting like perk sweet potatoes.
I'm getting sweet potato slips or plants that
are harder to germinate for me and I
(07:40):
don't really have the time to put it
in the perfect environment to get one seed
to sprout.
So yeah, I'm definitely on board with still
buying plants.
You know, going through your blog and the
different things that you've had on social media,
you appear to kind of do everything.
You use a mix of growing techniques.
I've seen you do the hydroponics, containers.
(08:03):
I saw you have regular in the dirt
gardening.
What is your preferred method and what do
you feel are the pros and cons of
each?
I really prefer raised bed gardening and that's
just because I like to get my hands
dirty.
I think it's a nice relaxing experience, especially
for what I do all day staring at
(08:24):
a computer.
Sometimes it's just nice to get your hands
in some actual dirt.
So I prefer that and plus you can
control the soil a little bit more because
everything's so sandy if you put everything directly
in ground.
Yeah, I agree.
Especially here with the clay in Georgia, it's
(08:44):
awful.
For all the amending you have to do
to make anything grow in it, you might
as well just get a container or a
planting bed and just not deal with that
hassle.
Now for hydroponics, I've done okay with it
when I've tried it on my own, but
for some reason it just seems like the
quality wasn't quite the same even with doing
(09:07):
the plant food.
When I tried to transplant them into the
dirt, there was this weird sort of struggle
and a couple of them made it and
some of them did or other ones kind
of creeped along, but then was okay.
So is it something I'm doing wrong or
is that just the nature of it's a
different type of technique?
I think because I've transferred stuff, I've tested
(09:28):
it with herbs and some people I've seen
do full-on fruits and things like that,
like tomatoes.
I think for me, I only grow lettuce
now in it.
That seems to be the best way.
The roots aren't going to be too long
where you have to and plus it grows
really fast.
It depends on the variety you're going to
use, but for me, lettuce has been just
(09:49):
the easiest thing and I think a lot
of the seeds that some of these companies
sell with it, I would say get your
own seeds.
But you definitely lean towards the container gardening
and hydroponics is just good for more like,
well, how about just leafy stuff in general,
not just lettuce, but something like spinach or
something like anything leafy.
(10:10):
Yes, especially something that you're going to harvest
pretty regularly because of that root structure, they
can get a little moldy.
I've been finding that issue out as soon
as the roots start to get just too
tangled up, then the plant starts to die.
Okay, so looking at the different ways to
grow, what are the pros and cons of
each one?
If they're in a small space, if they
(10:31):
had to choose a method, what would you
recommend?
I would say, so the pros and cons
of each method.
For raised bed gardening, of course, you're going
to have the space issue and where could
you put these raised beds?
I've been lucky to find community gardens, but
not everybody has that access, especially if you're
short on space.
I would say if you have a balcony
(10:54):
with more than six hours of direct sunlight
a day, then you can grow pretty much
everything except maybe tomatoes, flowering plants, like something
that's a little less sunlight intensive.
If you have a low light situation, or
perhaps you can put grow lights there.
I would also say the drawback is that,
(11:15):
of course, there's not so many things you
can put in one pot.
A lot of times it's just going to
be one plant, one pot.
Then also, you're still going to have to
worry about soil amendments, things like that, maybe
feeding them a little bit more than you
would in the raised bed where you have
beneficial bugs flying by to have that.
With container gardening, you still have to really
(11:36):
be on it with your soil amendments.
Then with hydroponic, I think it is definitely
the easiest, like let's just get something started.
I want to see something grow.
I think that's perfect because I often don't
even use the nutrients.
I would just say the biggest drawback is
I use purified water, no water from the
sink.
(11:57):
The Florida water, something is in it and
it's killing the plants.
I don't know what's going on.
One of the earliest things I wrote about
when I moved because I'm originally from New
York, and New York actually wins awards for
its water.
Our water is awesome.
When I moved to Georgia, I'm like, well,
the water here must be fantastic.
I'm sure it's fresh.
As soon as you turn it on, you're
(12:17):
like, no.
My dad's like, no, you do not drink
it from the tap.
You filter your water.
Don't give it to your pets.
It'll make you sick.
Just don't do it.
I'm like, ugh.
You would think being down south that the
water would be better and that's just simply
not the case.
(12:40):
For grow lights, you'd find that grow lights
are effective for doing things beyond just starting
because mainly I've used them to get things
going and then moving them to the garden.
Do you think that if someone has the
space, they really could just use grow lights
if they're in an area that doesn't get
a lot of sunlight?
I use grow lights for just my herbs
(13:00):
that I have in little pots.
I just use them and the herbs that
I have are thyme.
I have some dill and some chives.
I just put them under the grow light
and I used a lot of them quite
often.
They're always just trying to grow back.
I think it's perfect.
It's a little setup that I got that
(13:21):
just has the little lights on the top
and then it's a wood frame.
Then I also have a greenhouse, but I
do that a lot for seed starting.
I don't have ones yet, but those tall
vertical towers.
Do you have any experience with those?
Do you recommend them because it seems like
(13:43):
it would be cool for someone who has
the vertical space, maybe not the footprint.
Do you have any advice about those?
I think they look great.
I've seen them live in action.
I just don't have $700.
If you do, that's great.
I think it's a great investment because for
me, I can't fathom doing that just for
especially having the community garden and other things
(14:04):
available.
Right.
You have other ways of gardening.
Yeah, but I think they're great.
I love their setup.
I love the one that has the light
hovering over it so everything gets it.
I think they're great.
I wish I could have one.
Would you believe that would be a good
option for someone either their balcony doesn't get
a lot of light or they don't have
a balcony?
Oh yeah.
That would be worth the investment.
(14:25):
How much food would an average size one
get?
I know you can get them in different
sizes, but would it be enough for a
family or is it the kind of setup
where maybe one person or a couple?
Definitely depending on what you grow.
Again, I really just think that hydroponics is
great for more lettuce and herb.
If you can figure out drying your herbs
(14:48):
or vacuum sealing or ways that you can
hold on to it, I do think it
could maybe if you're eating a salad every
day, if your family's eating a salad every
day or lettuce type of foods, I think
it's great.
Then you can have maybe a balcony full
of other things that you couldn't grow.
Then I also tell people if you really
(15:09):
are just bad at kind of growing those
things in addition to having the tower, you
can go to different CPA boxes where you
have local farmers who are growing stuff that
you don't grow or just talk to your
neighbors if they're growing stuff.
If they also have a tower, maybe you
guys can share between the two of you.
I do think that it's a beneficial tower
and I think it would grow a lot.
(15:31):
For me, I don't eat so much vegetables.
I'm like, oh, as much as I grow.
I eat my salads, but I think that
would be way too much lettuce for me,
but a family, sure.
Now for something like the onions or potatoes,
is that something that someone can manage in
an apartment with a container?
(15:52):
Because it seems like you can grow a
potato in pretty much anything.
Oh, yeah.
They will grow in pretty much anything.
I like cherry tomatoes to grow indoors.
That's really great.
You just have to make sure you're getting
that pollen fertilization aspect to make sure the
flowers are growing into tomatoes.
Then I could say, what else grows in
(16:14):
containers that I've grown?
I've grown ginger in containers and then you
could save that for a long time.
I've grown turmeric in containers.
I have no carrots in containers.
There's a lot of stuff that you can
possibly grow.
Potatoes are a good one and I think
almost perfect to grow in a container because
of the disease aspect.
(16:35):
Florida is so sensitive to bugs.
I saw your blog where you had the
recommendation, especially if you want to do organic
farming, just to get out there, check it,
get the bugs.
I also saw you don't recommend hybrids for
our purposes.
Right.
For the type of plants, because sometimes I
(17:00):
go back and forth, I definitely like to
use as much heirloom seeds as you can
possibly get your hand on.
Even if you are using your hybrid seeds
that you maybe started with, try to collect
the seeds from the plants that you do
grow.
I think that to me is the coolest
part of it, that you could then keep
those seeds and then those will be your
heirloom seeds.
Most of the stuff that we're growing now
(17:22):
are descendants of hybrids either way, but try
to get from a reputable seed company, somebody
that's already growing heirloom seeds to kind of
get around.
Again, Florida is so sensitive with everything we
can grow here.
You want to be as pure as possible.
I saw that you have your plot out
there where you are planting things in the
dirt and your greenhouse.
(17:43):
Do you have a dream space for your
homesteading process or are you okay with where
you're at and you think it'll work future
for you?
Yeah, I would love to have more space.
I know I don't want to do it
in Florida just because of property taxes and
their zoning issues with having a tiny home,
because that would be my dream setup is
(18:04):
a larger tiny home or maybe a shipping
container home, but we looked, I was working
into it with a realtor.
It's just really difficult here and they only
put them in certain areas of the state,
but that would be my dream setup to
have mostly more garden than house and be
able to at least have a space to
process everything, but also have a space that
(18:26):
maybe people can come and learn and then
I can also have in-person classes and
things like that.
That would be the dream.
Awesome.
The last blog that I just put out
was about if any single women or single
moms, they want to get more into going
off grid.
There is the logistics of exactly what you're
talking about, the zoning, the housing.
(18:47):
There's so many different places have their different
rules.
So I'm glad that you said that because
it kind of emphasizes that, yeah, it sounds
great, but where you want to go and
what you might want to do might not
be allowed.
So to definitely educate yourself on the area
you're going to and that's what's ultimately getting
you all the way out of Florida or?
(19:08):
I think overall, this wasn't exactly and no
shade of Florida people that are cool, but
this was really the state that I've dreamed
of being in for the rest of my
life.
I really like Georgia.
I like the seasons that they're still seasons.
I really like Savannah.
So I was thinking about going there.
It's still affordable and it's a little cute
(19:29):
town because I do.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
I love more urban areas just for cultural
exchange.
You know, there's more things to do.
I don't want to be too far in
the country, especially unfortunately in this country.
So you can't be too out in the
country and I feel like Savannah is perfect
and I can still drive to Atlanta if
(19:51):
I want or to the beach if I
want.
Yeah.
That's one thing I like about Atlanta.
When I moved here, it's like, oh, they
still have seasons.
I mean, it doesn't have a New York
winter, but still seeing the seasons change and
Georgia's beautiful in the spring.
I don't think there's anything prettier when everything
starts growing and you start smelling all the
flowers.
(20:11):
It makes up for all the bugs.
At least for me.
Oh, I hate bugs.
I miss growing cucumbers in Georgia though because
that was such a perfect, here in Florida,
they're just bug riddled.
I've stopped even trying to grow them, but
I was just thinking I miss being able
to do that up there and how green
it is up there.
(20:31):
It's just so beautiful.
And I love cucumbers and that's the one
thing I always have the most trouble trying
to grow.
And last year they were just a sorry
batch.
I just couldn't get them to happen.
It wasn't even the bugs.
It was just weird.
I don't know what I did wrong.
But then last year they just kind of
came back by themselves.
Some of them kind of looked like melons.
(20:53):
Like getting, I'm like, um, what's happening?
Yeah.
What, what did I do wrong?
Oh no.
They could, they just do, depending on the
variety, I've seen round cucumbers.
I've seen a round banana, which kind of
just blew my mind.
Yeah.
I had no idea.
I don't know if I'd recover from that.
(21:15):
That was interesting.
Cause I didn't realize, cause we only grow.
That's one thing I have learned about this
master gardener course.
We only grow one variety of a lot
of our food, unfortunately, one of those being
bananas.
And there's just, it's the, the crops are
sometimes being decimated because the way that we
farm is just doesn't in line with how
(21:36):
nature's replenishing the soil.
And it's just, you know, so there are
other varieties of fruit that I was like,
I didn't even know that this existed.
That's really interesting.
And I wish we had more variety.
I think that's also another benefit of gardening
that you find so many things that you
just didn't know existed before.
Is there anything in particular that you saw
(21:57):
that you were going to try to grow
or that you've tried to get going?
I grew a loofah.
That for me was like, whoa, I didn't
know this was a whole thing.
I didn't either.
It's like, wow, without plants.
I don't know what I thought it was
before.
Yeah, I thought it was a sea sponge,
but then I realized, oh, these are two
(22:18):
different things, sea sponges and, and that, and
then you can save them for so long.
That was really cool to see.
I'm trying to think, I grew sugar baby
watermelons, which were like a little mini watermelon,
which I thought was pretty neat.
And I grew something called shampoo ginger, which
(22:39):
is like a ginger.
You can't eat it, but there's a little
bulb that's red.
If you squeeze it, this liquid comes out
and it's like a soapy smell and people
use it to rinse their hair in Hawaii
or Thailand.
I think it's native to those particular areas.
And I just love that.
And I thought it was the coolest thing.
Interesting.
But yeah, that, that's, that sounds interesting.
(23:00):
I just saw one recently where it actually
puts out a soapy kind of substance and
that's what people use instead of soap.
I'm like, oh, okay.
That's one way to get soap without having
to buy it.
How easily does luffa grow?
I'm just curious.
I've seen them and they grow like long
and stretchy.
(23:22):
It was like a weed after a while.
I'm like, I don't want any more luffa.
This is weird.
It took up my entire garden and I,
cause they warned me, they're like, this is
all you're going to grow is just luffa.
So if you do want to grow luffa,
have the space.
There are certain plants that are just like,
you know, for example, if you grow mint,
(23:43):
never grow it in the- I was
going to say mint.
I'm still finding pieces of mint and I'm
like, I pulled this up a couple of
seasons ago.
It will never die.
Yeah.
Mine powered back.
Even once it got cold, I didn't do
a thing.
It just shot up like, yeah, I'm here.
I know there's no getting rid of you.
(24:03):
Actually in time, the time was anxious to
come back too.
Time's pretty tough.
I'm like, oh, okay.
One less thing for me to do.
But the little small melons sound good, especially
if you're in a small place, you don't
have to worry about getting some honking award
-winning watermelon.
Was it easy to grow too?
Oh, you know, it was easier than I
(24:25):
thought.
The hardest part for me, it was like
a dance of when to harvest because it
looked harvestable and I'm like, okay.
And then you would cut it open, not
ready.
Or then you cut it open and a
bug got to it.
So it was like, how can I get
this melon right at the time that it
needs to be harvested?
And I ended up, I maybe got about
four out of the 10 or 12 that
(24:48):
grew that didn't get to somebody that weren't,
no, probably more than four now that I
think about it.
But it was only on a four by
10 plot and it didn't really spread so
much and they were just cute little melons.
And I've never seen the seeds.
They were like little happy faces in there
(25:09):
because I realized I had never seen watermelon
seeds.
I hadn't seen them since I was a
child.
Well, that's true.
I mean, now everything is seedless, which is
weird.
So of course it's the part for me
that's like, it's a conspiracy they don't want
us to grow our own food.
No, I definitely believe it though because I
mean, they were so disconnected from our food
source.
(25:30):
And that's also one of the reasons I
started was just to connect myself back to
it.
And especially COVID, you would think that would
have driven that home for a lot of
people, but.
No, it doesn't.
We've gotten very comfortable.
And one of the examples that I like
to give is I happened to be in
(25:50):
New York when Hurricane Sandy hit.
And of course that was horrible.
And it was just weird watching people go
into the store and it's hitting them that
nothing is there.
And the look on their face is like,
okay, no, there really is nothing here.
It's like, okay, it's not magic.
Bring this stuff in.
(26:12):
The stations have gas, but there's no power.
So we can't pump the gas.
You would think it would make people a
little more cognizant of it, but once everything
went back to normal, they're like, no, we're
good.
Which is weird because it can happen again,
and it's happening more and more, which is
(26:32):
why when you're gardening, when you talk to
gardeners or people who are doing other kinds
of prepping type stuff, it's like you feel
like you're yelling into the void.
It's very frustrating.
But yeah, that brings me to the next
question.
I have emphasized growing one's food as much
as possible.
And for me, that meant being less dependent
(26:53):
on stores and not relying on food companies,
mainly because of questionable practices and ingredients.
Were those your reasons too, or was it
more than that?
It was definitely that.
It was coming back to the States and
getting sick every time I would try to
eat something and smelling bleach on the chicken
or smelling stuff.
(27:14):
It hits you in the face that, oh
my goodness, we're eating a lot of bad
stuff.
And then all the outbreaks and all the
things.
The listeria.
Yeah, the listeria.
It's the year of listeria.
Everything is a listeria warning or a recall.
Yeah.
(27:35):
And it's just being able to have skills.
I always felt like if the lights go
off, nobody's going to be asking me to
redesign their website for them.
So I need to have an actual skill
that I can do things if that ever
happens.
The next podcast is about food insecurity, because
I also don't believe people realize how bad
(27:56):
it is right now.
Just being able to grow your own stuff
and make your own stuff, because we've become
so used to convenience that not only are
we disconnected with where our food comes from,
we forget how easy it is just to
make some of this stuff ourselves.
It's not that hard to make bread.
(28:17):
It's not that hard to make your own
cheese, like something simple like mozzarella.
When I had my chickens and when I
had my garden and I was making my
own bread, it's like, you can tell me
nothing.
It's like I can feed myself.
It might not be a massive variety of
stuff, but at least I know that if
something goes on, I can feed myself.
(28:39):
Exactly.
That is so important.
Yeah.
You have your company, the Urban Homestead Hub,
and you do other stuff as well.
What were your goals when you set up
the business and have those goals changed?
Well, it's a whole other name of the
(29:01):
site.
It was before called Black Homesteader, and the
goal was just to showcase me trying to
learn a homestead.
Then I realized they have a whole conference
and things, and they just didn't buy their
domain.
I was like, just take the domain, because
all I'm doing is blogging about what I'm
learning, topics that I'll discuss in a class
(29:22):
or something for Master Gardening.
I really just wanted to have a place
to build my skill as a marketer and
then also talk about the things that I
love to talk about.
That was the main thing.
If somebody reads it, that's awesome.
If nobody reads it, it's my creative outlet
that I could test things on and it's
(29:42):
a topic that I can write endlessly about.
That's been the main thing.
I would love for it to be a
full-time job, but I also love my
day-to-day.
It's kind of like back and forth.
I do love working with a lot of
different people because I work
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Homesteading.
It's a growing trend, but can you do
it in the city?
Kim Butler of Urban Homestead Hub is doing
it, and she talks about how you can
do it too.
Hi, it's the Urban Lady Prepper, and my
guest this episode is Kim Butler of Urban
(00:21):
Homestead Hub.
Kim is a master gardener, urban homesteader, and
SEO strategist, blending her expertise in DIY sustainability,
digital business, and community resilience to empower modern
city dwellers to take control of their resources.
With her years of experience, Kim shares practical,
no-nonsense tips on growing food in apartments,
reducing reliance on store-bought goods, and preparing
(00:44):
for uncertain times without needing acres of land.
You can find her online at urbanhomesteadhub.com
and follow her on the socials, which is
where I found her.
I'll include her links in the show description.
So, Kim, thanks for being on the show.
We got into the mid-80s today in
Atlanta.
Was it unusually warm down there in Florida
(01:04):
today, too?
I wouldn't say unusual, but it's in the
90s right now for the next couple of
days, so I guess that is a little
unusual.
Seems a little early.
That's already hot.
So you're out in Tampa now, correct?
I've been in Tampa for a little bit
over a year.
(01:24):
How are you liking it so far?
I like it a little better than Orlando.
There's definitely more of a push for gardens.
They have the Coalition of Community Gardens down
here.
The mayor has been sectioning off funds for
people to join these gardens.
She'll come to different conferences.
So, yeah, I feel like there's definitely much
(01:45):
more interest here, and so that's why I
think I like it a little bit better
than where I was.
Okay, so you've always been in Florida.
It's not like you moved from up north
or something like that.
I'm originally from California, and I left California.
That's a long story, but I left California
to move to Germany.
I've not in the service.
I just really liked Berlin and moved out
(02:07):
there for about five years, and then I
moved to Atlanta, and that's where I heard
about the Master Gardener program, and then I
moved to Orlando.
I'm in Atlanta now, and I haven't got
into the Master Gardener thing, but what got
you started on your journey with this whole
thing?
Did you intend to become a Master Gardener,
(02:28):
or was it just happenstance?
Really just happenstance.
I had friends that gardened.
I never thought I could grow a plant
and decided to just go to a community
garden when I moved to Georgia, and then
that's when somebody was like, would you be
interested in that?
And then I moved to Orlando and decided
(02:48):
to take the chance.
I think it was the first year of
COVID, where they had the online courses, so
I was able to get the designation.
So there was absolutely no in-person group
situation because of COVID, or it was just
all strictly online?
Yeah.
Ours was strictly online for Zoom sessions, and
then afterwards I was able to get my
hours, and now I do a lot more
(03:10):
in-person events when I can.
And how long did that process take?
It takes about 11 weeks, so I think
it's pretty simple, especially if you're doing it
online.
You have a lot of books that you
can read, and every week we're going through
the chapters and quizzes and stuff like that,
so it's pretty simple to get a grasp
(03:30):
of.
For someone who might be gardening and growing
some of their own food right now, how
much of a leap is it from what
they're already doing to taking a course like
that?
What would be the big takeaway for them
to make that move?
I would say if you have the interest,
because I didn't even have the space in
a lot of the subjects about palms and
(03:51):
things.
I was just never going to experience a
lot of things about lawns.
I was never really going to experience personally.
So find the subject that you like, and
it's pretty general.
It's a lot of vegetable gardening, a lot
of bug identification, leaf identification, and then just
kind of focus on that.
Now, are you a prepper as well as
(04:11):
a gardener?
Because I think that if you're gardening, you're
already kind of prepping, but are you doing
other sort of prepper type things other than
that?
I think I am a baby prepper.
There actually is a really cool store.
I remember Marietta, Georgia.
That is a whole prepper store, and they
would teach classes, and I would go over
there, and that was my first introduction into
(04:33):
prepping, and I knew if I was going
to move to Florida and they had these
hurricanes that I should at least have two
weeks out of some water or some access
to get clean water and then candles and
things like that and just having canned goods
and stuff like that.
So I would say definitely new.
(04:54):
Is this something that you think you're going
to get deeper into?
Oh yeah.
I have definitely met people who are so
much down the pipeline, so I feel like
there's so much to learn, and with the
hurricane season that we had last year, and
I think it's going to get worse, I
think it's time for me to really start
investing.
I've been looking more at like a power
(05:15):
source to have if things go off for
a while or a bug out bag, things
like that to have.
Well, I'm happy to help you with that.
That's kind of like my whole thing, but
one of the things that I try to
do is, because it's a whole urban thing,
is to let people know that there are
(05:37):
community gardens.
Yes, you can grow things in a small
space in an apartment.
So with people looking to grow more their
own food, what advice would you give someone
who's just starting to get into gardening?
Start small.
Start with things that you want to grow
and then look at the back of the
(05:57):
seeds.
I would never recommend for somebody new to
start with just seeds and putting them in
the ground.
I would say if you have maybe a
small hydroponic setup, I have one on my
counter, or just something really easy like that
where it's just plug and play, then sure,
you can start with seeds, but if it's
in the ground, I would definitely say start
(06:17):
with transplants, start with herbs, easy to grow
herbs like parsley, cilantro, and then figure out
what you can grow in your area, when
is the best time of year.
I was just having a conversation with somebody
talking about growing carrots and potatoes and broccoli
(06:37):
and just all types of different stuff that
I was like, you cannot do all of
that together.
Please don't do all of that.
Carrots were not fun.
They're not easy.
But one of the things that I express
to people, especially if they're starting out, there's
no shame in getting baby plants or getting
(06:58):
something from the store.
Just go to the store, get the little
organic already started pepper plant just to help
build confidence and that you don't have to
stress out whether or not this is going
to sprout, because that was very stressful when
I first started getting into gardening and growing
from seeds.
Since it's hit or miss, we might not
get anything.
(07:19):
Can you also encourage that, not feel like
you have to start out growing from seeds,
just get that plant, get those plants from
the store or the home improvement place and
go for it?
Oh yeah, I still do.
I'm not getting like perk sweet potatoes.
I'm getting sweet potato slips or plants that
are harder to germinate for me and I
(07:40):
don't really have the time to put it
in the perfect environment to get one seed
to sprout.
So yeah, I'm definitely on board with still
buying plants.
You know, going through your blog and the
different things that you've had on social media,
you appear to kind of do everything.
You use a mix of growing techniques.
I've seen you do the hydroponics, containers.
(08:03):
I saw you have regular in the dirt
gardening.
What is your preferred method and what do
you feel are the pros and cons of
each?
I really prefer raised bed gardening and that's
just because I like to get my hands
dirty.
I think it's a nice relaxing experience, especially
for what I do all day staring at
(08:24):
a computer.
Sometimes it's just nice to get your hands
in some actual dirt.
So I prefer that and plus you can
control the soil a little bit more because
everything's so sandy if you put everything directly
in ground.
Yeah, I agree.
Especially here with the clay in Georgia, it's
(08:44):
awful.
For all the amending you have to do
to make anything grow in it, you might
as well just get a container or a
planting bed and just not deal with that
hassle.
Now for hydroponics, I've done okay with it
when I've tried it on my own, but
for some reason it just seems like the
quality wasn't quite the same even with doing
(09:07):
the plant food.
When I tried to transplant them into the
dirt, there was this weird sort of struggle
and a couple of them made it and
some of them did or other ones kind
of creeped along, but then was okay.
So is it something I'm doing wrong or
is that just the nature of it's a
different type of technique?
I think because I've transferred stuff, I've tested
(09:28):
it with herbs and some people I've seen
do full-on fruits and things like that,
like tomatoes.
I think for me, I only grow lettuce
now in it.
That seems to be the best way.
The roots aren't going to be too long
where you have to and plus it grows
really fast.
It depends on the variety you're going to
use, but for me, lettuce has been just
(09:49):
the easiest thing and I think a lot
of the seeds that some of these companies
sell with it, I would say get your
own seeds.
But you definitely lean towards the container gardening
and hydroponics is just good for more like,
well, how about just leafy stuff in general,
not just lettuce, but something like spinach or
something like anything leafy.
(10:10):
Yes, especially something that you're going to harvest
pretty regularly because of that root structure, they
can get a little moldy.
I've been finding that issue out as soon
as the roots start to get just too
tangled up, then the plant starts to die.
Okay, so looking at the different ways to
grow, what are the pros and cons of
each one?
If they're in a small space, if they
(10:31):
had to choose a method, what would you
recommend?
I would say, so the pros and cons
of each method.
For raised bed gardening, of course, you're going
to have the space issue and where could
you put these raised beds?
I've been lucky to find community gardens, but
not everybody has that access, especially if you're
short on space.
I would say if you have a balcony
(10:54):
with more than six hours of direct sunlight
a day, then you can grow pretty much
everything except maybe tomatoes, flowering plants, like something
that's a little less sunlight intensive.
If you have a low light situation, or
perhaps you can put grow lights there.
I would also say the drawback is that,
(11:15):
of course, there's not so many things you
can put in one pot.
A lot of times it's just going to
be one plant, one pot.
Then also, you're still going to have to
worry about soil amendments, things like that, maybe
feeding them a little bit more than you
would in the raised bed where you have
beneficial bugs flying by to have that.
With container gardening, you still have to really
(11:36):
be on it with your soil amendments.
Then with hydroponic, I think it is definitely
the easiest, like let's just get something started.
I want to see something grow.
I think that's perfect because I often don't
even use the nutrients.
I would just say the biggest drawback is
I use purified water, no water from the
sink.
(11:57):
The Florida water, something is in it and
it's killing the plants.
I don't know what's going on.
One of the earliest things I wrote about
when I moved because I'm originally from New
York, and New York actually wins awards for
its water.
Our water is awesome.
When I moved to Georgia, I'm like, well,
the water here must be fantastic.
I'm sure it's fresh.
As soon as you turn it on, you're
(12:17):
like, no.
My dad's like, no, you do not drink
it from the tap.
You filter your water.
Don't give it to your pets.
It'll make you sick.
Just don't do it.
I'm like, ugh.
You would think being down south that the
water would be better and that's just simply
not the case.
(12:40):
For grow lights, you'd find that grow lights
are effective for doing things beyond just starting
because mainly I've used them to get things
going and then moving them to the garden.
Do you think that if someone has the
space, they really could just use grow lights
if they're in an area that doesn't get
a lot of sunlight?
I use grow lights for just my herbs
(13:00):
that I have in little pots.
I just use them and the herbs that
I have are thyme.
I have some dill and some chives.
I just put them under the grow light
and I used a lot of them quite
often.
They're always just trying to grow back.
I think it's perfect.
It's a little setup that I got that
(13:21):
just has the little lights on the top
and then it's a wood frame.
Then I also have a greenhouse, but I
do that a lot for seed starting.
I don't have ones yet, but those tall
vertical towers.
Do you have any experience with those?
Do you recommend them because it seems like
(13:43):
it would be cool for someone who has
the vertical space, maybe not the footprint.
Do you have any advice about those?
I think they look great.
I've seen them live in action.
I just don't have $700.
If you do, that's great.
I think it's a great investment because for
me, I can't fathom doing that just for
especially having the community garden and other things
(14:04):
available.
Right.
You have other ways of gardening.
Yeah, but I think they're great.
I love their setup.
I love the one that has the light
hovering over it so everything gets it.
I think they're great.
I wish I could have one.
Would you believe that would be a good
option for someone either their balcony doesn't get
a lot of light or they don't have
a balcony?
Oh yeah.
That would be worth the investment.
(14:25):
How much food would an average size one
get?
I know you can get them in different
sizes, but would it be enough for a
family or is it the kind of setup
where maybe one person or a couple?
Definitely depending on what you grow.
Again, I really just think that hydroponics is
great for more lettuce and herb.
If you can figure out drying your herbs
(14:48):
or vacuum sealing or ways that you can
hold on to it, I do think it
could maybe if you're eating a salad every
day, if your family's eating a salad every
day or lettuce type of foods, I think
it's great.
Then you can have maybe a balcony full
of other things that you couldn't grow.
Then I also tell people if you really
(15:09):
are just bad at kind of growing those
things in addition to having the tower, you
can go to different CPA boxes where you
have local farmers who are growing stuff that
you don't grow or just talk to your
neighbors if they're growing stuff.
If they also have a tower, maybe you
guys can share between the two of you.
I do think that it's a beneficial tower
and I think it would grow a lot.
(15:31):
For me, I don't eat so much vegetables.
I'm like, oh, as much as I grow.
I eat my salads, but I think that
would be way too much lettuce for me,
but a family, sure.
Now for something like the onions or potatoes,
is that something that someone can manage in
an apartment with a container?
(15:52):
Because it seems like you can grow a
potato in pretty much anything.
Oh, yeah.
They will grow in pretty much anything.
I like cherry tomatoes to grow indoors.
That's really great.
You just have to make sure you're getting
that pollen fertilization aspect to make sure the
flowers are growing into tomatoes.
Then I could say, what else grows in
(16:14):
containers that I've grown?
I've grown ginger in containers and then you
could save that for a long time.
I've grown turmeric in containers.
I have no carrots in containers.
There's a lot of stuff that you can
possibly grow.
Potatoes are a good one and I think
almost perfect to grow in a container because
of the disease aspect.
(16:35):
Florida is so sensitive to bugs.
I saw your blog where you had the
recommendation, especially if you want to do organic
farming, just to get out there, check it,
get the bugs.
I also saw you don't recommend hybrids for
our purposes.
Right.
For the type of plants, because sometimes I
(17:00):
go back and forth, I definitely like to
use as much heirloom seeds as you can
possibly get your hand on.
Even if you are using your hybrid seeds
that you maybe started with, try to collect
the seeds from the plants that you do
grow.
I think that to me is the coolest
part of it, that you could then keep
those seeds and then those will be your
heirloom seeds.
Most of the stuff that we're growing now
(17:22):
are descendants of hybrids either way, but try
to get from a reputable seed company, somebody
that's already growing heirloom seeds to kind of
get around.
Again, Florida is so sensitive with everything we
can grow here.
You want to be as pure as possible.
I saw that you have your plot out
there where you are planting things in the
dirt and your greenhouse.
(17:43):
Do you have a dream space for your
homesteading process or are you okay with where
you're at and you think it'll work future
for you?
Yeah, I would love to have more space.
I know I don't want to do it
in Florida just because of property taxes and
their zoning issues with having a tiny home,
because that would be my dream setup is
(18:04):
a larger tiny home or maybe a shipping
container home, but we looked, I was working
into it with a realtor.
It's just really difficult here and they only
put them in certain areas of the state,
but that would be my dream setup to
have mostly more garden than house and be
able to at least have a space to
process everything, but also have a space that
(18:26):
maybe people can come and learn and then
I can also have in-person classes and
things like that.
That would be the dream.
Awesome.
The last blog that I just put out
was about if any single women or single
moms, they want to get more into going
off grid.
There is the logistics of exactly what you're
talking about, the zoning, the housing.
(18:47):
There's so many different places have their different
rules.
So I'm glad that you said that because
it kind of emphasizes that, yeah, it sounds
great, but where you want to go and
what you might want to do might not
be allowed.
So to definitely educate yourself on the area
you're going to and that's what's ultimately getting
you all the way out of Florida or?
(19:08):
I think overall, this wasn't exactly and no
shade of Florida people that are cool, but
this was really the state that I've dreamed
of being in for the rest of my
life.
I really like Georgia.
I like the seasons that they're still seasons.
I really like Savannah.
So I was thinking about going there.
It's still affordable and it's a little cute
(19:29):
town because I do.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
I love more urban areas just for cultural
exchange.
You know, there's more things to do.
I don't want to be too far in
the country, especially unfortunately in this country.
So you can't be too out in the
country and I feel like Savannah is perfect
and I can still drive to Atlanta if
(19:51):
I want or to the beach if I
want.
Yeah.
That's one thing I like about Atlanta.
When I moved here, it's like, oh, they
still have seasons.
I mean, it doesn't have a New York
winter, but still seeing the seasons change and
Georgia's beautiful in the spring.
I don't think there's anything prettier when everything
starts growing and you start smelling all the
flowers.
(20:11):
It makes up for all the bugs.
At least for me.
Oh, I hate bugs.
I miss growing cucumbers in Georgia though because
that was such a perfect, here in Florida,
they're just bug riddled.
I've stopped even trying to grow them, but
I was just thinking I miss being able
to do that up there and how green
it is up there.
(20:31):
It's just so beautiful.
And I love cucumbers and that's the one
thing I always have the most trouble trying
to grow.
And last year they were just a sorry
batch.
I just couldn't get them to happen.
It wasn't even the bugs.
It was just weird.
I don't know what I did wrong.
But then last year they just kind of
came back by themselves.
Some of them kind of looked like melons.
(20:53):
Like getting, I'm like, um, what's happening?
Yeah.
What, what did I do wrong?
Oh no.
They could, they just do, depending on the
variety, I've seen round cucumbers.
I've seen a round banana, which kind of
just blew my mind.
Yeah.
I had no idea.
I don't know if I'd recover from that.
(21:15):
That was interesting.
Cause I didn't realize, cause we only grow.
That's one thing I have learned about this
master gardener course.
We only grow one variety of a lot
of our food, unfortunately, one of those being
bananas.
And there's just, it's the, the crops are
sometimes being decimated because the way that we
farm is just doesn't in line with how
(21:36):
nature's replenishing the soil.
And it's just, you know, so there are
other varieties of fruit that I was like,
I didn't even know that this existed.
That's really interesting.
And I wish we had more variety.
I think that's also another benefit of gardening
that you find so many things that you
just didn't know existed before.
Is there anything in particular that you saw
(21:57):
that you were going to try to grow
or that you've tried to get going?
I grew a loofah.
That for me was like, whoa, I didn't
know this was a whole thing.
I didn't either.
It's like, wow, without plants.
I don't know what I thought it was
before.
Yeah, I thought it was a sea sponge,
but then I realized, oh, these are two
(22:18):
different things, sea sponges and, and that, and
then you can save them for so long.
That was really cool to see.
I'm trying to think, I grew sugar baby
watermelons, which were like a little mini watermelon,
which I thought was pretty neat.
And I grew something called shampoo ginger, which
(22:39):
is like a ginger.
You can't eat it, but there's a little
bulb that's red.
If you squeeze it, this liquid comes out
and it's like a soapy smell and people
use it to rinse their hair in Hawaii
or Thailand.
I think it's native to those particular areas.
And I just love that.
And I thought it was the coolest thing.
Interesting.
But yeah, that, that's, that sounds interesting.
(23:00):
I just saw one recently where it actually
puts out a soapy kind of substance and
that's what people use instead of soap.
I'm like, oh, okay.
That's one way to get soap without having
to buy it.
How easily does luffa grow?
I'm just curious.
I've seen them and they grow like long
and stretchy.
(23:22):
It was like a weed after a while.
I'm like, I don't want any more luffa.
This is weird.
It took up my entire garden and I,
cause they warned me, they're like, this is
all you're going to grow is just luffa.
So if you do want to grow luffa,
have the space.
There are certain plants that are just like,
you know, for example, if you grow mint,
(23:43):
never grow it in the- I was
going to say mint.
I'm still finding pieces of mint and I'm
like, I pulled this up a couple of
seasons ago.
It will never die.
Yeah.
Mine powered back.
Even once it got cold, I didn't do
a thing.
It just shot up like, yeah, I'm here.
I know there's no getting rid of you.
(24:03):
Actually in time, the time was anxious to
come back too.
Time's pretty tough.
I'm like, oh, okay.
One less thing for me to do.
But the little small melons sound good, especially
if you're in a small place, you don't
have to worry about getting some honking award
-winning watermelon.
Was it easy to grow too?
Oh, you know, it was easier than I
(24:25):
thought.
The hardest part for me, it was like
a dance of when to harvest because it
looked harvestable and I'm like, okay.
And then you would cut it open, not
ready.
Or then you cut it open and a
bug got to it.
So it was like, how can I get
this melon right at the time that it
needs to be harvested?
And I ended up, I maybe got about
four out of the 10 or 12 that
(24:48):
grew that didn't get to somebody that weren't,
no, probably more than four now that I
think about it.
But it was only on a four by
10 plot and it didn't really spread so
much and they were just cute little melons.
And I've never seen the seeds.
They were like little happy faces in there
(25:09):
because I realized I had never seen watermelon
seeds.
I hadn't seen them since I was a
child.
Well, that's true.
I mean, now everything is seedless, which is
weird.
So of course it's the part for me
that's like, it's a conspiracy they don't want
us to grow our own food.
No, I definitely believe it though because I
mean, they were so disconnected from our food
source.
(25:30):
And that's also one of the reasons I
started was just to connect myself back to
it.
And especially COVID, you would think that would
have driven that home for a lot of
people, but.
No, it doesn't.
We've gotten very comfortable.
And one of the examples that I like
to give is I happened to be in
(25:50):
New York when Hurricane Sandy hit.
And of course that was horrible.
And it was just weird watching people go
into the store and it's hitting them that
nothing is there.
And the look on their face is like,
okay, no, there really is nothing here.
It's like, okay, it's not magic.
Bring this stuff in.
(26:12):
The stations have gas, but there's no power.
So we can't pump the gas.
You would think it would make people a
little more cognizant of it, but once everything
went back to normal, they're like, no, we're
good.
Which is weird because it can happen again,
and it's happening more and more, which is
(26:32):
why when you're gardening, when you talk to
gardeners or people who are doing other kinds
of prepping type stuff, it's like you feel
like you're yelling into the void.
It's very frustrating.
But yeah, that brings me to the next
question.
I have emphasized growing one's food as much
as possible.
And for me, that meant being less dependent
(26:53):
on stores and not relying on food companies,
mainly because of questionable practices and ingredients.
Were those your reasons too, or was it
more than that?
It was definitely that.
It was coming back to the States and
getting sick every time I would try to
eat something and smelling bleach on the chicken
or smelling stuff.
(27:14):
It hits you in the face that, oh
my goodness, we're eating a lot of bad
stuff.
And then all the outbreaks and all the
things.
The listeria.
Yeah, the listeria.
It's the year of listeria.
Everything is a listeria warning or a recall.
Yeah.
(27:35):
And it's just being able to have skills.
I always felt like if the lights go
off, nobody's going to be asking me to
redesign their website for them.
So I need to have an actual skill
that I can do things if that ever
happens.
The next podcast is about food insecurity, because
I also don't believe people realize how bad
(27:56):
it is right now.
Just being able to grow your own stuff
and make your own stuff, because we've become
so used to convenience that not only are
we disconnected with where our food comes from,
we forget how easy it is just to
make some of this stuff ourselves.
It's not that hard to make bread.
(28:17):
It's not that hard to make your own
cheese, like something simple like mozzarella.
When I had my chickens and when I
had my garden and I was making my
own bread, it's like, you can tell me
nothing.
It's like I can feed myself.
It might not be a massive variety of
stuff, but at least I know that if
something goes on, I can feed myself.
(28:39):
Exactly.
That is so important.
Yeah.
You have your company, the Urban Homestead Hub,
and you do other stuff as well.
What were your goals when you set up
the business and have those goals changed?
Well, it's a whole other name of the
(29:01):
site.
It was before called Black Homesteader, and the
goal was just to showcase me trying to
learn a homestead.
Then I realized they have a whole conference
and things, and they just didn't buy their
domain.
I was like, just take the domain, because
all I'm doing is blogging about what I'm
learning, topics that I'll discuss in a class
(29:22):
or something for Master Gardening.
I really just wanted to have a place
to build my skill as a marketer and
then also talk about the things that I
love to talk about.
That was the main thing.
If somebody reads it, that's awesome.
If nobody reads it, it's my creative outlet
that I could test things on and it's
(29:42):
a topic that I can write endlessly about.
That's been the main thing.
I would love for it to be a
full-time job, but I also love my
day-to-day.
It's kind of like back and forth.
I do love working with a lot of
different people because I work
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