November 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Discover how to build credibility and trust as a virtual leader.
Ever wondered why it’s harder to build trust through a webcam than across a table? In this lively Halloween-themed episode, we are joined by longtime colleague and industry leader Brian McKibben to explore how to create instant credibility in a 2D world.
You’ll learn:
- 🧠The brain science of trust — why oxytocin is the key “bonding chemical” and how to trigger it virtually.
- 💻 First-impression facts — your audience forms a judgment in 200 milliseconds; how camera angle, lighting, and expression build (or break) credibility.
- 🤝 Professional presence tips — avoid the “virtual hoodie effect,” create psychological safety, and project warmth, reliability, and transparency.
- ⚙️ Practical fixes — lessons from Brian’s 600 WebEx clients and how the Group Virtual Office Audit pinpoints blind spots in just 30 minutes and 7 steps.
- 🎯 Real results — how engagement rates jump from 20% to 80% after applying these skills.
Whether you lead teams, pitch clients, or present daily on screen, this episode will help you build real-world trust in virtual spaces.
👉 Learn how to build trust instantly, register for a Group Virtual Office Audit at đź”—Group Virtual Office Audit Registration Â
Below are links to our Amazon Affiliate products that we use to improve our lighting and audio. (We may earn commission when these products are purchased.) Â
We would love to hear from you. Please connect with us on Linked In or Instagram (Virtual Engage)
đź”—Kimberli Gilbert Linked-In
If you have enjoyed this episode, please share and like it. Every like helps us grow! Thank you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
A dash of humor and a lot of really cool brain science, and we are in costume today.
On purpose, we wanted to surprise our guest and get his first reaction.
We'll introduce him in just a moment.
I'm Kimberly Gilbert, one of your cohos.
And I'm Kathy Godina, your other co-host.
(00:31):
Our topic today is trust on screen, building credibility as a Virtual Leader.
Think about that for just a moment.
Is that something any of you are struggling with? I know after having coached 8,500 humans in 33 countries, I hear back from people all the time that say, wow, Kimberly, that group virtual office audit was fantastic, and I had no idea how many mistakes I was making.
(01:02):
Now these are CEO.
CFOs, presidents of organizations, tenured humans in their, career field, coming back to me and saying, those 30 minutes and seven steps were so incredibly valuable, and I had no idea how I was showing up in 2D.
(01:25):
Kathy's going to chime in here very quickly, and then we are going to introduce our guest, Brian McKibbon.
Good morning everyone.
Happy Halloween.
This was so much fun to think about getting dressed up and, getting the reaction of our guest.
It was on purpose.
Mainly because of the topic of today's talk, and that is building trust virtually.
(01:49):
Now.
You can't see us right now.
Maybe you will in the future, but right now we are dressed as two different people and I am more of a, well, I'm not as scary as Kimberly.
We'll just say that.
And so we'll get Brian's reaction here in a few minutes and share that with you.
So Kathy is the diva today, and I am a skeleton.
(02:13):
My face is completely white and I have a lot of stitch marks or suture marks all over my face.
So let's introduce our amazing guest, Brian McKibbon.
We have known each other for over 20 years.
We've both worked in the virtual collaboration industry for years.
Having started at.
WebEx before WebEx became Cisco WebEx.
(02:36):
Brian has a lot to share about virtual trust as it relates to leadership and building credibility in the 2D world.
Brian, welcome.
Go ahead and introduce yourself to our amazing listeners.
Yes.
Thank you ladies.
It's a pleasure to join, this podcast.
I'm excited actually.
I'm Brian McKibben.
(02:56):
Over the course of my career, I've carried multiple different, career, positions, all the way from leadership down to the individual contributor.
And as Kimberly shared, the biggest, and probably the most exciting part of.
Virtual meetings is that I was at WebEx selling directly in the SMB space, starting my career.
(03:19):
I sold over 600 accounts in five years through the WebEx platform.
And, when I first started, it was quite the challenge to understand and learn.
Like what Kimberly and Kathy are referring to how to actually do this, and not necessarily replace, but augment the in-person meeting.
(03:43):
In the case of, WebEx in those 600 accounts that I sold over those five years, I actually never traveled and met one customer.
We did it all through a virtual environment.
Mm.
So of course I became an expert.
In the idea of being able to deliver virtually, and being able to impact the same way I would in an in-person meeting.
(04:09):
I love that.
Well, we know trust comes much more naturally.
Not to everybody at first, but as we grow in our learning journey and become better at socializing in person, it's much more natural.
We have eye contact and handshakes and body language and proximity to one another, and we don't have that virtually let's.
(04:34):
Focused a tiny bit on the brain science.
I know.
You'll just have to indulge me.
I love when we get to incorporate brain science into these podcasts because that's where my passion is.
I'm a neurolinguistics coach practitioner and have been practicing for over four years now and focusing on marrying presentation skills to the neuroscience, and it continues to fascinate me.
(04:57):
Every single day, neuroscience tells us that trust.
And that's our topic for today, is a chemical event.
When we feel safe and you know I'm all about psychological safety and we can teach you how to build psychological safety.
Starting with the group Virtual office audit, virtual office audit.com.
Again, 30 minutes.
(05:18):
Seven steps less than a hundred dollars, and you can start this learning journey.
We make it very, very simple and easy for you.
Our brains are releasing oxytocin.
So it's not just about dopamine.
We've talked about dopamine in previous episodes, and we are not oxytocin or dopamine experts, but you know, we know enough to be dangerous.
So oxytocin is the bonding hormone.
(05:40):
And guess what? In virtual environments, oxytocin levels are much, much harder to stimulate.
And we must be very intentional about stimulating oxytocin.
And again, we can teach you how to do that.
We've got some statistics that are really interesting.
Kathy, why don't you go ahead and share those with us? Oh, I'd be happy to.
(06:03):
The research shows that in-person communication activates about 85% of our sensory trust channels.
Wow.
But virtual, that's a lot.
I know virtual interactions activate less than 40%.
What a huge difference.
That, and that's just insane.
Brian, what do you think about those numbers? If I could translate those into actually real life experience.
(06:28):
Yes.
What you're basically saying, to those in the audience, that with all those terminology that they used, is really, the interaction levels are a hundred percent different between an in-person meeting and.
It through a 2D or a virtual meeting, medium.
And so what it requires for us is to build that trust, is to really have some key, capabilities or transfer those capabilities that we would do in an in-person meeting and figure out how to use those same kinds of interactions like the virtual handshake.
(07:03):
What is that? How would I do that? How do I translate, interaction with my clients, customers, prospects, whoever I'm communicating with.
And there's tools within the virtual environment that allow me to do that.
We've all been in meetings, I'm sure in virtual meetings where we've seen other presenters.
Completely flop.
(07:23):
And you say to yourself, oh my gosh, what is going, what's going on with these people? They're, this meeting is horrible.
They haven't gone through a group virtual office audit.
I can almost guarantee that.
Well, and that, and that, that goes back to, you know, it is a skill.
And it takes practice.
You can either try to learn that yourself and continue to repeat your bad habits.
(07:47):
Mm-hmm.
Or to your point, you can seek, education and help to get you through those processes much quicker.
At WebEx.
Stepping back into the career again at WebEx, we had all those internal training tools that help to make us experts.
The longevity, and that's what we did.
(08:08):
We sold every single day online and we became experts through trial and error.
In today's world with the fast pace, do I really want to spend six months trying to figure out how to present virtually, or to your point, can we turn to the experts? In 30 minutes, seven steps really start to understand, and by the way, I've went through this, what they're referring to as a virtual office audit.
(08:37):
And you'll be surprised, even as an experienced presenter, as I am doing this for over 20 plus years, I found that I had huge holes in three main areas, myself, how I presented my workspace.
The material that I was actually presenting and how I was presenting it.
(08:58):
So it's invaluable to be able to get those three elements pulled together.
And I will say Kimberly and Kathy use present this in a way that's easy to digest and I can't, I would say it's invaluable to, experience that virtual office audit to start.
And then they then having all of the expertise behind that to do other things to help coach me to even be better.
(09:24):
Yeah.
So one-on-one coaching, we have virtual meeting facilitation basics.
We have presentation skills for virtual leaders.
There's a myriad of other.
Training programs that we can book.
So thank you, Brian.
I really appreciate that.
Kathy will back you up as well.
Kathy, tell us about your office in your prior career and how things changed for you as soon as you attended a virtual office audit.
(09:51):
Not knowing what in the world you were attending, not really thinking that you needed my training, right.
Those things come to people's minds.
What is Kimberly really going to teach me? I'm a pretty good 2D presenter.
I can do this.
So tell us a little bit about what happened for you.
Brian, I really appreciate your, comments.
They're spot on.
(10:12):
And when I took the virtual office audit, I had done several in-person presentations to employers, to their employees about their insurance.
And then of course, everything changed in 2020 and I had to pivot and do every.
Single meeting, virtually no training, just did my best.
And so, when I received Kimberly's training and those seven steps, I did have to practice a little bit, but I was amazed when I implemented those steps in the next employee meeting.
(10:44):
I was really surprised because I received more questions from the audience.
People were really thinking about what I was saying and trying to understand.
The nuances of the insurance plan that they have that I was explaining.
Mm-hmm.
Now, you know, insurance can be a little bit dry and boring.
Ugh.
But I felt really good at the end of the meeting thinking, wow, they really connected with my message.
(11:10):
And I think the reason is because of the way I delivered it.
It's the skillset.
Mm-hmm.
Is, is different and it's adaptable.
We can adapt in-person skills to the virtual world, and we can teach you how to do it.
But that virtual office audit really speaks to transparency, reliability, warmth.
Did you know that the brain automatically categorizes you as safe? Even virtually if you exude those particular traits.
(11:39):
And we'll talk a little bit about psychological safety as we move forward, but like Brian and Kathy both said, the virtual office audit.
Will teach you the foundation for success and then you are going to need to practice it.
Mm-hmm.
Which is why we are trying to open up additional hands-on labs throughout the year.
(12:01):
You can join our Facebook group, which is virtual.
Presentation Skills Mastery.
You can find us on LinkedIn at Genius Lab.
There's lots of different resources we are happy to share with you, and a lot of them are free.
This podcast is free.
As soon as we are able to launch on YouTube, we will be out there.
(12:22):
You'll hear us soon on Spotify.
So a lot of you loyal listeners, we have grown organically and we are.
Really excited about doubling our numbers month after month.
So go back and implement some of these skill sets once you learn them.
(12:43):
Just like we have, we went to Podcast University.
If we had not practiced these skillset sets, we would not be here.
And we've had to learn different things about how to warm our audience up to us for our first step.
Was the podcast university your first.
Step is the group virtual office audit, virtual office audit.com.
(13:04):
Kimberly, have a quick, I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, go for it.
I have a quick question for Brian.
So I thought your comment, Kimberly just now, you said that our brain automatically feels safe mm-hmm.
In a virtual meeting.
So, Brian, how safe were you when he jumped in on this meeting? Well, that was, that's a great question because, um, I, when I first joined, I didn't know who the participants were.
(13:30):
Mm-hmm.
And, it shocked me.
My initial thought was to retract like any human being would until I realized that it was Kimberly and Kathy.
So that, but that is key.
That is called thin slicing, and we have an episode where we talk about thin slicing, and this really happens in our brains.
(13:50):
We aren't, we're not necessarily cognizant of conscious thoughts when we go into these situations.
Before Brian spoke or giggled or whatever he did.
First he had a thought that was.
Oh my gosh, am I in the wrong meeting? Think about that.
We, oh gosh, you guys, we love to do these things live online, and Kathy will tell you, I do this to her all the time.
(14:15):
This was her little spin to, to get me back, even though it's not April fools yet.
So testing these things live online helps us learn in real time, and you get to learn as well.
No, we are extreme.
But think about your, if you have a team leader, maybe they show up disheveled because their littles didn't sleep well the night before and they don't brush their hair, or they don't brush their teeth, or they don't show up with any kind of confidence.
(14:43):
Do you know them are they your leader? Yes.
You might give a little bit of grace to their situation, but if that happens again and again and again, you are going to lose trust.
Mm-hmm.
You might even think that you're showing up in the wrong meeting, and that's not what we want to build for you.
We know these skills like the back of our hand, and we have statistics to prove it.
(15:06):
Just for example, a lot of our clients have come to us in the past with a 15% engagement rate, and that's a team engagement rate.
And by the time they go through our training, which is a myriad of training programs, they move to the 95% rate for engagement.
And these are the statistics that come back.
Kathy, you're probably one of them.
Mm-hmm.
(15:26):
What would you say your engagement rates were virtually.
Kathy was already a really good presenter, by the way.
If you had to just guess off the cuff, what were your engagement rates prior to the virtual office audit? I would say, they were low.
They were low because people were just way like 20%.
I would say that, and then it jumped up 75 or 80%.
(15:48):
Just in one meeting.
That's amazing.
One meeting.
Mm-hmm.
Brian, I'm sure you can share some statistics.
You have so much wisdom in this space.
Do you have any stories that you could share? And I know I'm putting you on the spot right now, but any stories that you can think of where somebody has gone through a training and you've seen engagement rates jump? I'm gonna take a step back on this one because to me, this is near and dear to my heart.
(16:13):
How many times, and I would ask this question to any of you pod listening to this podcast, how many meetings have you ever jumped into where the presenter was wearing a ball cap, ah, or completely showed up our hoodie with inappropriate attire on? We are talking about initial trust, especially around now, would you ever show up to, and that would be my next question, would you ever show up to an in-person meeting? Dressed in a ball cap, a t-shirt, and a pair of jeans or shorts.
(16:44):
The answer's obviously no, but when you jump into the virtual environment, I'll use this as the example of trust.
What does the first you used, you asked me the question, what did I think of the two of you when I first joined this meeting? What do you think an audience thinks of a person wearing a ball cap in a professional environment? The first thing we all, we all go, oh my gosh.
(17:08):
What, what's up with this presenter? Mm-hmm.
You don't have trust in them right off the bat because they don't present themselves in a professional way.
So when you start thinking about going through, and this is what I was talking about with the virtual office audit you don't think about naturally in your head, which is, how do I present myself? Is the workspace that I have adequate to deliver consistent.
(17:35):
Highly qualified professional meetings with the hardware and all the material I'm using and is the material I'm actually using effective.
So when you started to talk about building trust, if those three elements aren't in place and you start off fumbling your technology, you're struggling with the technology and you're wearing a ball cap, I'm sorry.
(17:59):
You are going to start off by very low rates there.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
As far as how you are, perceived and the follow up of that.
And if we think about what we're trying, we're trying to, we're not replacing the in-person meeting.
We're trying to simulate it.
Because if we think about this and we take this to a business discussion, we're trying to simulate as much of an in-person meeting virtually as we can.
(18:26):
Mm-hmm.
Because let's face it.
We typically, in a lot of situations, we'll have a hybrid approach to our sales or marketing processes.
We'll have events in person, but we'll have many virtual events or very, many sales meetings.
And those can will go between a hybrid role of probably one in-person meeting and maybe 10 virtual meetings.
(18:49):
Well, in those 10 virtual meetings, it's paramount to push deals forward in sales.
I present myself like I would in person.
Mm-hmm.
So going back to your trust comments, Kathy, this is exactly near and dear to my heart because I, as a sales leader, completely lose my mind when a sales rep shows up completely in a virtual environment that I'm participating in.
(19:15):
Not prepared.
Completely.
So yes, this is the trust.
And I know for a fact the minute that that happens, and you can see this through success rates mm-hmm.
You go from very low success rates in that environment to when you're professional, you're materials, right? You ask questions, you're curious, you can see them explode into what you guys are saying, 75 to 90% improvement.
(19:45):
Your success rates of your meetings.
Oh, I mean, it's just, it's incredible.
Mm-hmm.
And there are some nonverbal cues that are very specific, but let me just share with you a new statistic, new research.
I was really, really excited to find this information.
Your audience forms a judgment about your trustworthiness.
Now, that's not an overall opinion.
(20:06):
This is about trustworthiness, and we'll be breaking down micro segments as we move forward with this podcast about different elements of how your audience forms a bond with you.
Your trustworthiness is 200 milliseconds.
Seeing you.
I think that probably happened in Brian's brain.
(20:28):
That's one fifth of a second.
So we've always had these statistics in the past that say eight seconds, seven seconds.
You don't get a second chance to make a first impression, et cetera.
But things are ramping up in our brains, and we are more keyed in because of technology than we have.
(20:48):
Ever been before? So if you think about it this way, before you say a word, before Kathy and I ever said a word, our cameras had already introduced us to Brian, and Brian was already ready to run, and that probably happened in less than a second.
According to statistics, probably one fifth of a second.
(21:11):
So let's think about eye contact, which is your camera alignment.
Brian, to your point earlier, I wanna blow my mind every time I see somebody logging in with their nose first and they're still doing it.
We were in an executive team meeting the other day where we were talking about somebody who's a very well-known speaker.
(21:31):
And she was sharing zoom, do's and don'ts, and she had her camera at the wrong angle.
I was found myself reaching through the camera saying, no, stop, because you're teaching this to people incorrectly.
So eye contact, lighting and visibility, micro expressions, gestures and tone.
(21:53):
You can go back and bookmark this section if you really, if you want a high level of nonverbal cues that really, really build credibility.
Kathy, I know you had something to chime in there with.
I was gonna go back when you were talking about that first 200 milliseconds.
Mm-hmm.
That's when Brian, moved back in his chair.
(22:14):
I know, I saw that.
Oh, I, I hope you guys, we can get this onto YouTube, because that was absolutely precious.
And this was all Kathy's brilliance, originally I was going to surprise Kimberly, and then she told me Brian was gonna be on this, as a guest.
And so I thought, oh, no.
And so I told her, and so then we did it together.
Sorry, Brian, we did not include you.
(22:35):
And thank you again, Brian.
If this was just so last minute, we just so appreciate your time.
Did you wanna share anything else there, Kathy? No, that was it.
Psychological safety is something that is near and dear to my heart.
And not only do nonverbal cues add to the psychological safety and your trustworthiness.
(22:55):
Also, we would love to give you ways to do that, and those are very quickly, and again, you can go back and bookmark this section.
Predictability participation signals transparency in setup.
Visible listening and follow through.
And we'll have a micro segment on Thursday about one of these topics we're gonna decide to surprise you.
(23:19):
So we aren't going to roll it out in this episode.
But Brian, we'd love to hear more from you before we close.
Yeah, just kind of recapping some of the things that I've said.
I think that, my experience, gave me at least the foundation for, presenting online.
I thought at, this point in my career that I was an expert.
(23:43):
And lo and behold that I find out I'm really not, especially in the 2D virtual space, whether you're a beginner or a seasoned pro like myself that's done this as a career.
There's always, technology changes.
The platforms that you're using can become inundated with new technology that you're unaware how to use.
(24:06):
Mm.
So just the, just as a senior person fumbling through the technology, having, the mics cut out, having the phone ring in the background mm-hmm.
All of those things that you just don't consider.
Those are paramount to your success.
And again, as a business person, and right now managing revenue for a company, it's paramount that we get this right because in an ever fast paced world that we're living in today, we don't get second chances to Kimberly's point.
(24:38):
Mm-hmm.
We typically get first impressions.
Which happened in that very fast, pace.
The material, the engagement, the way that we engage with our clients through a virtual environment, that's the part, frankly, that is very difficult.
How do you make sure that they're not looking at their phones, they don't have you turned off all of that stuff that, we know we do in meetings that are really horrible.
(25:03):
Mm-hmm.
So, um.
I would s highly suggest going back to, what we're talking about today.
The virtual office audit, to me, really level, set me in a way that I just, I can't say enough about it.
Those seven steps, 30 minutes really set the stage for me to then take the next steps and really give some coaching and understand how to Perfect.
(25:28):
Myself and improve myself even as a seasoned, leader in sales.
So Brian, I have a quick question for you.
One of the segments of the virtual office audit is background.
What do you think of Kimberly's background? So, Kimberly's background actually is really good.
I will say mine with my door open right now is not, because, it should be closed.
(25:50):
I noticed that as I was looking into my camera, I guess we can use this as a faux pa.
You need to have a background that is like Kimberly's or yours even is looks professional.
And if my door was closed, I would actually have the same effect.
So see, even virtual leaders who are very well seasoned need the virtual office audit.
(26:11):
Right.
Brian? Kathy was kind of poking fun.
Do you see where my finger is pointing? Yes.
Towards the, uh.
But what, but, but I will say, as a leader in this space, Kimberly certainly is always well prepared.
She always understands as a coach practitioner that how to present.
(26:35):
She's helped me again with several pieces of my, my office space.
I think that those are, to me, that was the biggest learning environment for me was my office space was completely misconfigured, and I needed help in a lot of other areas.
My presentation also, some of the way that I was presenting with the material needed to be adjusted.
(26:58):
If you need coaching on that, we certainly, she can help you there.
But you know, for me personally, this was just, invaluable to me and it's really helped me, moving sales process forward, especially in the virtual environment.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
This was really fun, both of you.
I like it when we, we get to move out of that proverbial box and we get to move toward the fringe, you know, which I'm all about moving toward the fringe and whatever it is that we're doing and trying to break the rules before we make the rules, that's completely me anyway.
(27:34):
Kathy, this feels like a wrap to me.
How do you feel about this session today? Well, actually it was really, really fun and we enjoyed having you Brian, and it was, enjoyable to surprise you as well.
And I hope everyone has a happy Halloween. 326 00:27:47,198.3768198 --> 00:27:53,618.3768198 Give us the opportunity to help you improve your virtual setup. 327 00:27:53,948.3768198 --> 00:28:00,758.3768198 Extract the best 2D version of your 3D self build instant credibility. 328 00:28:00,758.3768198 --> 00:28:01,658.3768198 It works. 329 00:28:01,658.3768198 --> 00:28:02,888.3768198 I'm telling you it works. 330 00:28:02,888.3768198 --> 00:28:05,708.3768198 After 2000 virtual office audits now. 331 00:28:06,218.3768198 --> 00:28:07,568.3768198 It really does work. 332 00:28:07,568.3768198 --> 00:28:09,668.3768198 Virtual office audit.com. 333 00:28:09,968.3768198 --> 00:28:16,898.3768198 Again, 30 minutes, seven steps will help you assess your space, your lighting, your video frame. 334 00:28:16,898.3768198 --> 00:28:20,208.3768198 We talk about all these things in the group virtual office audit. 335 00:28:20,208.3768198 --> 00:28:24,683.3768198 And then, like Brian said, if you wanna book a one-on-one advanced coaching, we are here. 336 00:28:25,83.3768198 --> 00:28:26,523.3768198 To meet your needs. 337 00:28:27,183.3768198 --> 00:28:33,903.3768198 We look forward to sharing time with you in the next episode where we go live from the waist up.
A dash of humor and a lot of really cool brain science, and we are in costume today.
On purpose, we wanted to surprise our guest and get his first reaction.
We'll introduce him in just a moment.
I'm Kimberly Gilbert, one of your cohos.
And I'm Kathy Godina, your other co-host.
(00:31):
Our topic today is trust on screen, building credibility as a Virtual Leader.
Think about that for just a moment.
Is that something any of you are struggling with? I know after having coached 8,500 humans in 33 countries, I hear back from people all the time that say, wow, Kimberly, that group virtual office audit was fantastic, and I had no idea how many mistakes I was making.
(01:02):
Now these are CEO.
CFOs, presidents of organizations, tenured humans in their, career field, coming back to me and saying, those 30 minutes and seven steps were so incredibly valuable, and I had no idea how I was showing up in 2D.
(01:25):
Kathy's going to chime in here very quickly, and then we are going to introduce our guest, Brian McKibbon.
Good morning everyone.
Happy Halloween.
This was so much fun to think about getting dressed up and, getting the reaction of our guest.
It was on purpose.
Mainly because of the topic of today's talk, and that is building trust virtually.
(01:49):
Now.
You can't see us right now.
Maybe you will in the future, but right now we are dressed as two different people and I am more of a, well, I'm not as scary as Kimberly.
We'll just say that.
And so we'll get Brian's reaction here in a few minutes and share that with you.
So Kathy is the diva today, and I am a skeleton.
(02:13):
My face is completely white and I have a lot of stitch marks or suture marks all over my face.
So let's introduce our amazing guest, Brian McKibbon.
We have known each other for over 20 years.
We've both worked in the virtual collaboration industry for years.
Having started at.
WebEx before WebEx became Cisco WebEx.
(02:36):
Brian has a lot to share about virtual trust as it relates to leadership and building credibility in the 2D world.
Brian, welcome.
Go ahead and introduce yourself to our amazing listeners.
Yes.
Thank you ladies.
It's a pleasure to join, this podcast.
I'm excited actually.
I'm Brian McKibben.
(02:56):
Over the course of my career, I've carried multiple different, career, positions, all the way from leadership down to the individual contributor.
And as Kimberly shared, the biggest, and probably the most exciting part of.
Virtual meetings is that I was at WebEx selling directly in the SMB space, starting my career.
(03:19):
I sold over 600 accounts in five years through the WebEx platform.
And, when I first started, it was quite the challenge to understand and learn.
Like what Kimberly and Kathy are referring to how to actually do this, and not necessarily replace, but augment the in-person meeting.
(03:43):
In the case of, WebEx in those 600 accounts that I sold over those five years, I actually never traveled and met one customer.
We did it all through a virtual environment.
Mm.
So of course I became an expert.
In the idea of being able to deliver virtually, and being able to impact the same way I would in an in-person meeting.
(04:09):
I love that.
Well, we know trust comes much more naturally.
Not to everybody at first, but as we grow in our learning journey and become better at socializing in person, it's much more natural.
We have eye contact and handshakes and body language and proximity to one another, and we don't have that virtually let's.
(04:34):
Focused a tiny bit on the brain science.
I know.
You'll just have to indulge me.
I love when we get to incorporate brain science into these podcasts because that's where my passion is.
I'm a neurolinguistics coach practitioner and have been practicing for over four years now and focusing on marrying presentation skills to the neuroscience, and it continues to fascinate me.
(04:57):
Every single day, neuroscience tells us that trust.
And that's our topic for today, is a chemical event.
When we feel safe and you know I'm all about psychological safety and we can teach you how to build psychological safety.
Starting with the group Virtual office audit, virtual office audit.com.
Again, 30 minutes.
(05:18):
Seven steps less than a hundred dollars, and you can start this learning journey.
We make it very, very simple and easy for you.
Our brains are releasing oxytocin.
So it's not just about dopamine.
We've talked about dopamine in previous episodes, and we are not oxytocin or dopamine experts, but you know, we know enough to be dangerous.
So oxytocin is the bonding hormone.
(05:40):
And guess what? In virtual environments, oxytocin levels are much, much harder to stimulate.
And we must be very intentional about stimulating oxytocin.
And again, we can teach you how to do that.
We've got some statistics that are really interesting.
Kathy, why don't you go ahead and share those with us? Oh, I'd be happy to.
(06:03):
The research shows that in-person communication activates about 85% of our sensory trust channels.
Wow.
But virtual, that's a lot.
I know virtual interactions activate less than 40%.
What a huge difference.
That, and that's just insane.
Brian, what do you think about those numbers? If I could translate those into actually real life experience.
(06:28):
Yes.
What you're basically saying, to those in the audience, that with all those terminology that they used, is really, the interaction levels are a hundred percent different between an in-person meeting and.
It through a 2D or a virtual meeting, medium.
And so what it requires for us is to build that trust, is to really have some key, capabilities or transfer those capabilities that we would do in an in-person meeting and figure out how to use those same kinds of interactions like the virtual handshake.
(07:03):
What is that? How would I do that? How do I translate, interaction with my clients, customers, prospects, whoever I'm communicating with.
And there's tools within the virtual environment that allow me to do that.
We've all been in meetings, I'm sure in virtual meetings where we've seen other presenters.
Completely flop.
(07:23):
And you say to yourself, oh my gosh, what is going, what's going on with these people? They're, this meeting is horrible.
They haven't gone through a group virtual office audit.
I can almost guarantee that.
Well, and that, and that, that goes back to, you know, it is a skill.
And it takes practice.
You can either try to learn that yourself and continue to repeat your bad habits.
(07:47):
Mm-hmm.
Or to your point, you can seek, education and help to get you through those processes much quicker.
At WebEx.
Stepping back into the career again at WebEx, we had all those internal training tools that help to make us experts.
The longevity, and that's what we did.
(08:08):
We sold every single day online and we became experts through trial and error.
In today's world with the fast pace, do I really want to spend six months trying to figure out how to present virtually, or to your point, can we turn to the experts? In 30 minutes, seven steps really start to understand, and by the way, I've went through this, what they're referring to as a virtual office audit.
(08:37):
And you'll be surprised, even as an experienced presenter, as I am doing this for over 20 plus years, I found that I had huge holes in three main areas, myself, how I presented my workspace.
The material that I was actually presenting and how I was presenting it.
(08:58):
So it's invaluable to be able to get those three elements pulled together.
And I will say Kimberly and Kathy use present this in a way that's easy to digest and I can't, I would say it's invaluable to, experience that virtual office audit to start.
And then they then having all of the expertise behind that to do other things to help coach me to even be better.
(09:24):
Yeah.
So one-on-one coaching, we have virtual meeting facilitation basics.
We have presentation skills for virtual leaders.
There's a myriad of other.
Training programs that we can book.
So thank you, Brian.
I really appreciate that.
Kathy will back you up as well.
Kathy, tell us about your office in your prior career and how things changed for you as soon as you attended a virtual office audit.
(09:51):
Not knowing what in the world you were attending, not really thinking that you needed my training, right.
Those things come to people's minds.
What is Kimberly really going to teach me? I'm a pretty good 2D presenter.
I can do this.
So tell us a little bit about what happened for you.
Brian, I really appreciate your, comments.
They're spot on.
(10:12):
And when I took the virtual office audit, I had done several in-person presentations to employers, to their employees about their insurance.
And then of course, everything changed in 2020 and I had to pivot and do every.
Single meeting, virtually no training, just did my best.
And so, when I received Kimberly's training and those seven steps, I did have to practice a little bit, but I was amazed when I implemented those steps in the next employee meeting.
(10:44):
I was really surprised because I received more questions from the audience.
People were really thinking about what I was saying and trying to understand.
The nuances of the insurance plan that they have that I was explaining.
Mm-hmm.
Now, you know, insurance can be a little bit dry and boring.
Ugh.
But I felt really good at the end of the meeting thinking, wow, they really connected with my message.
(11:10):
And I think the reason is because of the way I delivered it.
It's the skillset.
Mm-hmm.
Is, is different and it's adaptable.
We can adapt in-person skills to the virtual world, and we can teach you how to do it.
But that virtual office audit really speaks to transparency, reliability, warmth.
Did you know that the brain automatically categorizes you as safe? Even virtually if you exude those particular traits.
(11:39):
And we'll talk a little bit about psychological safety as we move forward, but like Brian and Kathy both said, the virtual office audit.
Will teach you the foundation for success and then you are going to need to practice it.
Mm-hmm.
Which is why we are trying to open up additional hands-on labs throughout the year.
(12:01):
You can join our Facebook group, which is virtual.
Presentation Skills Mastery.
You can find us on LinkedIn at Genius Lab.
There's lots of different resources we are happy to share with you, and a lot of them are free.
This podcast is free.
As soon as we are able to launch on YouTube, we will be out there.
(12:22):
You'll hear us soon on Spotify.
So a lot of you loyal listeners, we have grown organically and we are.
Really excited about doubling our numbers month after month.
So go back and implement some of these skill sets once you learn them.
(12:43):
Just like we have, we went to Podcast University.
If we had not practiced these skillset sets, we would not be here.
And we've had to learn different things about how to warm our audience up to us for our first step.
Was the podcast university your first.
Step is the group virtual office audit, virtual office audit.com.
(13:04):
Kimberly, have a quick, I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, go for it.
I have a quick question for Brian.
So I thought your comment, Kimberly just now, you said that our brain automatically feels safe mm-hmm.
In a virtual meeting.
So, Brian, how safe were you when he jumped in on this meeting? Well, that was, that's a great question because, um, I, when I first joined, I didn't know who the participants were.
(13:30):
Mm-hmm.
And, it shocked me.
My initial thought was to retract like any human being would until I realized that it was Kimberly and Kathy.
So that, but that is key.
That is called thin slicing, and we have an episode where we talk about thin slicing, and this really happens in our brains.
(13:50):
We aren't, we're not necessarily cognizant of conscious thoughts when we go into these situations.
Before Brian spoke or giggled or whatever he did.
First he had a thought that was.
Oh my gosh, am I in the wrong meeting? Think about that.
We, oh gosh, you guys, we love to do these things live online, and Kathy will tell you, I do this to her all the time.
(14:15):
This was her little spin to, to get me back, even though it's not April fools yet.
So testing these things live online helps us learn in real time, and you get to learn as well.
No, we are extreme.
But think about your, if you have a team leader, maybe they show up disheveled because their littles didn't sleep well the night before and they don't brush their hair, or they don't brush their teeth, or they don't show up with any kind of confidence.
(14:43):
Do you know them are they your leader? Yes.
You might give a little bit of grace to their situation, but if that happens again and again and again, you are going to lose trust.
Mm-hmm.
You might even think that you're showing up in the wrong meeting, and that's not what we want to build for you.
We know these skills like the back of our hand, and we have statistics to prove it.
(15:06):
Just for example, a lot of our clients have come to us in the past with a 15% engagement rate, and that's a team engagement rate.
And by the time they go through our training, which is a myriad of training programs, they move to the 95% rate for engagement.
And these are the statistics that come back.
Kathy, you're probably one of them.
Mm-hmm.
(15:26):
What would you say your engagement rates were virtually.
Kathy was already a really good presenter, by the way.
If you had to just guess off the cuff, what were your engagement rates prior to the virtual office audit? I would say, they were low.
They were low because people were just way like 20%.
I would say that, and then it jumped up 75 or 80%.
(15:48):
Just in one meeting.
That's amazing.
One meeting.
Mm-hmm.
Brian, I'm sure you can share some statistics.
You have so much wisdom in this space.
Do you have any stories that you could share? And I know I'm putting you on the spot right now, but any stories that you can think of where somebody has gone through a training and you've seen engagement rates jump? I'm gonna take a step back on this one because to me, this is near and dear to my heart.
(16:13):
How many times, and I would ask this question to any of you pod listening to this podcast, how many meetings have you ever jumped into where the presenter was wearing a ball cap, ah, or completely showed up our hoodie with inappropriate attire on? We are talking about initial trust, especially around now, would you ever show up to, and that would be my next question, would you ever show up to an in-person meeting? Dressed in a ball cap, a t-shirt, and a pair of jeans or shorts.
(16:44):
The answer's obviously no, but when you jump into the virtual environment, I'll use this as the example of trust.
What does the first you used, you asked me the question, what did I think of the two of you when I first joined this meeting? What do you think an audience thinks of a person wearing a ball cap in a professional environment? The first thing we all, we all go, oh my gosh.
(17:08):
What, what's up with this presenter? Mm-hmm.
You don't have trust in them right off the bat because they don't present themselves in a professional way.
So when you start thinking about going through, and this is what I was talking about with the virtual office audit you don't think about naturally in your head, which is, how do I present myself? Is the workspace that I have adequate to deliver consistent.
(17:35):
Highly qualified professional meetings with the hardware and all the material I'm using and is the material I'm actually using effective.
So when you started to talk about building trust, if those three elements aren't in place and you start off fumbling your technology, you're struggling with the technology and you're wearing a ball cap, I'm sorry.
(17:59):
You are going to start off by very low rates there.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
As far as how you are, perceived and the follow up of that.
And if we think about what we're trying, we're trying to, we're not replacing the in-person meeting.
We're trying to simulate it.
Because if we think about this and we take this to a business discussion, we're trying to simulate as much of an in-person meeting virtually as we can.
(18:26):
Mm-hmm.
Because let's face it.
We typically, in a lot of situations, we'll have a hybrid approach to our sales or marketing processes.
We'll have events in person, but we'll have many virtual events or very, many sales meetings.
And those can will go between a hybrid role of probably one in-person meeting and maybe 10 virtual meetings.
(18:49):
Well, in those 10 virtual meetings, it's paramount to push deals forward in sales.
I present myself like I would in person.
Mm-hmm.
So going back to your trust comments, Kathy, this is exactly near and dear to my heart because I, as a sales leader, completely lose my mind when a sales rep shows up completely in a virtual environment that I'm participating in.
(19:15):
Not prepared.
Completely.
So yes, this is the trust.
And I know for a fact the minute that that happens, and you can see this through success rates mm-hmm.
You go from very low success rates in that environment to when you're professional, you're materials, right? You ask questions, you're curious, you can see them explode into what you guys are saying, 75 to 90% improvement.
(19:45):
Your success rates of your meetings.
Oh, I mean, it's just, it's incredible.
Mm-hmm.
And there are some nonverbal cues that are very specific, but let me just share with you a new statistic, new research.
I was really, really excited to find this information.
Your audience forms a judgment about your trustworthiness.
Now, that's not an overall opinion.
(20:06):
This is about trustworthiness, and we'll be breaking down micro segments as we move forward with this podcast about different elements of how your audience forms a bond with you.
Your trustworthiness is 200 milliseconds.
Seeing you.
I think that probably happened in Brian's brain.
(20:28):
That's one fifth of a second.
So we've always had these statistics in the past that say eight seconds, seven seconds.
You don't get a second chance to make a first impression, et cetera.
But things are ramping up in our brains, and we are more keyed in because of technology than we have.
(20:48):
Ever been before? So if you think about it this way, before you say a word, before Kathy and I ever said a word, our cameras had already introduced us to Brian, and Brian was already ready to run, and that probably happened in less than a second.
According to statistics, probably one fifth of a second.
(21:11):
So let's think about eye contact, which is your camera alignment.
Brian, to your point earlier, I wanna blow my mind every time I see somebody logging in with their nose first and they're still doing it.
We were in an executive team meeting the other day where we were talking about somebody who's a very well-known speaker.
(21:31):
And she was sharing zoom, do's and don'ts, and she had her camera at the wrong angle.
I was found myself reaching through the camera saying, no, stop, because you're teaching this to people incorrectly.
So eye contact, lighting and visibility, micro expressions, gestures and tone.
(21:53):
You can go back and bookmark this section if you really, if you want a high level of nonverbal cues that really, really build credibility.
Kathy, I know you had something to chime in there with.
I was gonna go back when you were talking about that first 200 milliseconds.
Mm-hmm.
That's when Brian, moved back in his chair.
(22:14):
I know, I saw that.
Oh, I, I hope you guys, we can get this onto YouTube, because that was absolutely precious.
And this was all Kathy's brilliance, originally I was going to surprise Kimberly, and then she told me Brian was gonna be on this, as a guest.
And so I thought, oh, no.
And so I told her, and so then we did it together.
Sorry, Brian, we did not include you.
(22:35):
And thank you again, Brian.
If this was just so last minute, we just so appreciate your time.
Did you wanna share anything else there, Kathy? No, that was it.
Psychological safety is something that is near and dear to my heart.
And not only do nonverbal cues add to the psychological safety and your trustworthiness.
(22:55):
Also, we would love to give you ways to do that, and those are very quickly, and again, you can go back and bookmark this section.
Predictability participation signals transparency in setup.
Visible listening and follow through.
And we'll have a micro segment on Thursday about one of these topics we're gonna decide to surprise you.
(23:19):
So we aren't going to roll it out in this episode.
But Brian, we'd love to hear more from you before we close.
Yeah, just kind of recapping some of the things that I've said.
I think that, my experience, gave me at least the foundation for, presenting online.
I thought at, this point in my career that I was an expert.
(23:43):
And lo and behold that I find out I'm really not, especially in the 2D virtual space, whether you're a beginner or a seasoned pro like myself that's done this as a career.
There's always, technology changes.
The platforms that you're using can become inundated with new technology that you're unaware how to use.
(24:06):
Mm.
So just the, just as a senior person fumbling through the technology, having, the mics cut out, having the phone ring in the background mm-hmm.
All of those things that you just don't consider.
Those are paramount to your success.
And again, as a business person, and right now managing revenue for a company, it's paramount that we get this right because in an ever fast paced world that we're living in today, we don't get second chances to Kimberly's point.
(24:38):
Mm-hmm.
We typically get first impressions.
Which happened in that very fast, pace.
The material, the engagement, the way that we engage with our clients through a virtual environment, that's the part, frankly, that is very difficult.
How do you make sure that they're not looking at their phones, they don't have you turned off all of that stuff that, we know we do in meetings that are really horrible.
(25:03):
Mm-hmm.
So, um.
I would s highly suggest going back to, what we're talking about today.
The virtual office audit, to me, really level, set me in a way that I just, I can't say enough about it.
Those seven steps, 30 minutes really set the stage for me to then take the next steps and really give some coaching and understand how to Perfect.
(25:28):
Myself and improve myself even as a seasoned, leader in sales.
So Brian, I have a quick question for you.
One of the segments of the virtual office audit is background.
What do you think of Kimberly's background? So, Kimberly's background actually is really good.
I will say mine with my door open right now is not, because, it should be closed.
(25:50):
I noticed that as I was looking into my camera, I guess we can use this as a faux pa.
You need to have a background that is like Kimberly's or yours even is looks professional.
And if my door was closed, I would actually have the same effect.
So see, even virtual leaders who are very well seasoned need the virtual office audit.
(26:11):
Right.
Brian? Kathy was kind of poking fun.
Do you see where my finger is pointing? Yes.
Towards the, uh.
But what, but, but I will say, as a leader in this space, Kimberly certainly is always well prepared.
She always understands as a coach practitioner that how to present.
(26:35):
She's helped me again with several pieces of my, my office space.
I think that those are, to me, that was the biggest learning environment for me was my office space was completely misconfigured, and I needed help in a lot of other areas.
My presentation also, some of the way that I was presenting with the material needed to be adjusted.
(26:58):
If you need coaching on that, we certainly, she can help you there.
But you know, for me personally, this was just, invaluable to me and it's really helped me, moving sales process forward, especially in the virtual environment.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
This was really fun, both of you.
I like it when we, we get to move out of that proverbial box and we get to move toward the fringe, you know, which I'm all about moving toward the fringe and whatever it is that we're doing and trying to break the rules before we make the rules, that's completely me anyway.
(27:34):
Kathy, this feels like a wrap to me.
How do you feel about this session today? Well, actually it was really, really fun and we enjoyed having you Brian, and it was, enjoyable to surprise you as well.
And I hope everyone has a happy Halloween. 326 00:27:47,198.3768198 --> 00:27:53,618.3768198 Give us the opportunity to help you improve your virtual setup. 327 00:27:53,948.3768198 --> 00:28:00,758.3768198 Extract the best 2D version of your 3D self build instant credibility. 328 00:28:00,758.3768198 --> 00:28:01,658.3768198 It works. 329 00:28:01,658.3768198 --> 00:28:02,888.3768198 I'm telling you it works. 330 00:28:02,888.3768198 --> 00:28:05,708.3768198 After 2000 virtual office audits now. 331 00:28:06,218.3768198 --> 00:28:07,568.3768198 It really does work. 332 00:28:07,568.3768198 --> 00:28:09,668.3768198 Virtual office audit.com. 333 00:28:09,968.3768198 --> 00:28:16,898.3768198 Again, 30 minutes, seven steps will help you assess your space, your lighting, your video frame. 334 00:28:16,898.3768198 --> 00:28:20,208.3768198 We talk about all these things in the group virtual office audit. 335 00:28:20,208.3768198 --> 00:28:24,683.3768198 And then, like Brian said, if you wanna book a one-on-one advanced coaching, we are here. 336 00:28:25,83.3768198 --> 00:28:26,523.3768198 To meet your needs. 337 00:28:27,183.3768198 --> 00:28:33,903.3768198 We look forward to sharing time with you in the next episode where we go live from the waist up.
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