August 13, 2025 • 29 mins
In this WAHNcast replay from their hit session at the 2025 National Summit, four incredible women from Indiana WAHN, Danielle Smith, Scarlett Andrews, Jennifer Green, and Janine Betsey, share how building a “Personal Board of Directors” can shape not only your career, but your life.
What started as professional networking evolved into a trusted circle of mentors, cheerleaders, and truth-tellers who challenge, support, and advocate for one another—on the job and beyond. Along the way, these women became close friends, navigating leadership roles, career pivots, and life’s big moments together.
Tune in for stories, laughter, and practical tips for creating your own personal board, finding the right mix of voices at your table, and building relationships that last. Whether you’re early in your career or a seasoned leader, you’ll leave inspired to find your people and keep them close.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to WAHNcast, the official podcast of the Women's Affordable Housing Network.
This is our space to connect, get real, and talk about what's really happening in housing.
From bold leadership to resident stories that ground us in purpose.
We're here to amplify voices, strengthen each other, and share the kind of conversations you'd have with a friend who gets it.
(00:21):
Because when our voices are amplified, our communities grow stronger, and so do we. 6 00:00:28,619.932 --> 00:00:41,939.932 In this episode, we're joined by four incredible women from Indiana, Juan, Janine, Betsy, Scarlet Andrews, Jennifer Green, and Danielle Smith who brought the house down at our 2025 summit with their session on building your personal board of directors. 7 00:00:42,269.932 --> 00:00:45,209.932 It was so good we had to hit replay for Juan Cast. 8 00:00:45,539.932 --> 00:00:53,684.932 You'll hear how they've surrounded themselves with the right mix of mentors, sponsors, and truth tellers, and how those relationships have shaped both their careers and their lives. 9 00:00:54,389.932 --> 00:00:59,969.932 It's a conversation full of practical advice and the kind of connection that reminds us in housing and in life. 10 00:01:00,179.932 --> 00:01:02,789.932 The right people in your corner make all the difference. 11 00:01:04,979.932 --> 00:01:10,799.932 welcome to the Indiana Ladies of the Women in Affordable Housing Network. 12 00:01:11,69.932 --> 00:01:15,209.932 This is a rehash of a session that was at this year's National Summit. 13 00:01:15,764.932 --> 00:01:30,404.932 Danielle Smith, Scarlett Andrews and Jennifer Green are each going to introduce themselves, tell you a little bit about themselves, and then we'll start with today's session, which is about building a personal board of directors. 14 00:01:31,19.932 --> 00:01:33,659.932 Danny, would you like to start us all? Definitely. 15 00:01:33,899.932 --> 00:01:35,369.932 My name is Danielle Smith. 16 00:01:35,429.932 --> 00:01:38,309.932 I am the CEO of First Phase Strategies. 17 00:01:38,339.932 --> 00:01:47,619.932 We are a uniform relocation act compliant consultancy that works primarily in the multifamily housing market. 18 00:01:48,769.932 --> 00:01:49,449.932 Scarlett, you're up. 19 00:01:50,559.932 --> 00:01:51,549.932 Scarlett Andrews. 20 00:01:51,549.932 --> 00:01:52,869.932 I work for Hageman Capital. 21 00:01:52,869.932 --> 00:01:55,779.932 We're part of a family office based in Carmel, Indiana. 22 00:01:55,989.932 --> 00:01:58,329.932 We invest in real estate in a variety of different ways. 23 00:01:58,379.932 --> 00:02:06,904.932 When I first was part of this conversation, I was with one of our other verticals, TNH Investments, which poses on building and managing affordable housing. 24 00:02:09,964.932 --> 00:02:10,984.932 Hello everybody. 25 00:02:10,984.932 --> 00:02:20,154.932 Jennifer Green retired Executive Director of Partners in Housing Current board president of the Indiana WAHN chapter. 26 00:02:20,274.932 --> 00:02:23,584.932 And just excited to talk with these ladies today. 27 00:02:24,4.932 --> 00:02:28,984.932 I was trying to think the other day how long combined we've all known each other and I decided not to. 28 00:02:30,664.932 --> 00:02:31,744.932 It's a lot of years. 29 00:02:32,134.932 --> 00:02:33,94.932 It's a lot of years. 30 00:02:34,984.932 --> 00:02:35,824.932 Okay. 31 00:02:35,884.932 --> 00:02:36,484.932 All right. 32 00:02:36,484.932 --> 00:02:39,454.932 For today we're gonna talk about a number of items. 33 00:02:39,694.932 --> 00:02:45,34.932 We're gonna talk about encouraging women to build a network of women and ally advisors. 34 00:02:45,304.932 --> 00:02:49,669.932 What kind of action steps it might take to build your own personal board of direct. 35 00:02:51,264.932 --> 00:02:59,464.932 And what are some long-term impacts from building your own board of directors? So we're gonna start off with Danny. 36 00:02:59,714.932 --> 00:03:09,674.932 Can you talk to us about how you first started this idea of personal board of directors, what it means and why it's valuable? Sure. 37 00:03:09,674.932 --> 00:03:13,304.932 So I had noticed some patterns as I was. 38 00:03:13,854.932 --> 00:03:17,664.932 Sort of midstream in my career as opposed to where I am now. 39 00:03:17,694.932 --> 00:03:18,809.932 I guess it's not really the advanced. 40 00:03:19,929.932 --> 00:03:20,949.932 End of my career. 41 00:03:20,949.932 --> 00:03:28,409.932 I had my first couple jobs and I was seeking mentorship and trying to find really my place in the industry. 42 00:03:28,829.932 --> 00:03:33,269.932 And I was having, I continued having conversations with the same people. 43 00:03:33,469.932 --> 00:03:35,209.932 Jennifer, you were one of them. 44 00:03:35,239.932 --> 00:03:37,519.932 Janine, you were certainly one of them. 45 00:03:37,819.932 --> 00:03:43,749.932 And over time these relationships really solidified to the point where I would have. 46 00:03:43,889.932 --> 00:03:54,449.932 Small groups together and we just started having continued conversation that merited a regularly scheduled program. 47 00:03:54,659.932 --> 00:03:58,559.932 And so at some point we called this our personal board of directors. 48 00:03:58,799.932 --> 00:04:01,529.932 We now have a monthly meeting. 49 00:04:01,609.932 --> 00:04:16,879.932 And we, this is just a way for us to continue to push each other continue to build in our careers and support each other in not just our professional realm, but it has really spilled over into general life which has been a real pleasure. 50 00:04:18,604.932 --> 00:04:19,384.932 I love that. 51 00:04:19,684.932 --> 00:04:20,344.932 All right. 52 00:04:20,824.932 --> 00:04:32,744.932 How about Jennifer, will you talk a little bit about your personal board of directors and how you've worked it in your career at Partners in Housing? Yeah. 53 00:04:32,774.932 --> 00:04:34,874.932 And as I talked before, that. 54 00:04:35,624.932 --> 00:04:38,264.932 Your personal board of directors can change. 55 00:04:38,264.932 --> 00:04:42,654.932 You can add people, you can it just depends on where you are in your career. 56 00:04:43,54.932 --> 00:04:48,734.932 At Partners in Housing because we were a supportive housing provider. 57 00:04:49,94.932 --> 00:04:59,674.932 One day a few of us woke up and just figured out that all of the major supportive housing agencies in Indianapolis were led by women. 58 00:05:00,19.932 --> 00:05:02,509.932 Which, we figured we, we were great. 59 00:05:02,959.932 --> 00:05:12,639.932 And so we started doing a monthly meeting called VIM, which on your calendar so people wouldn't know what it was. 60 00:05:12,639.932 --> 00:05:19,779.932 It means very important meeting and we would all get together and at different places. 61 00:05:19,779.932 --> 00:05:22,869.932 Drinks were always involved that had to be involved. 62 00:05:23,319.932 --> 00:05:40,859.932 And we would just talk about, the landscape that we were in we always would bring a story, which I really liked about an employee that was out of control and everyone always had those stories and we gave each other advice on how to deal with that and what to do. 63 00:05:41,339.932 --> 00:05:45,69.932 And the great thing about that is that personal board of directors is. 64 00:05:45,894.932 --> 00:05:47,334.932 Still a part of my life. 65 00:05:47,334.932 --> 00:05:50,814.932 They've still continued to include me even though I've retired. 66 00:05:50,814.932 --> 00:06:04,674.932 And so it's, it was just a great experience and having those other five women in a room, you would be surprised at how much we could get done and be on the same page so that when it came to. 67 00:06:05,394.932 --> 00:06:12,204.932 Bigger things in a wider ran landscape, and maybe one of us was in the room and the rest of us weren't. 68 00:06:12,654.932 --> 00:06:19,144.932 We were able to, s speak for each other and say, here's what we need and here's what we want. 69 00:06:19,144.932 --> 00:06:23,854.932 And just like Danny said, it became, personal too. 70 00:06:23,854.932 --> 00:06:28,704.932 Weddings and births and divorces and deaths and all those things, and it's just. 71 00:06:29,244.932 --> 00:06:31,744.932 And a wonderful part for me. 72 00:06:33,724.932 --> 00:06:34,474.932 I love that. 73 00:06:34,804.932 --> 00:06:41,224.932 How about you, Scarlett? You worked up the mayor's office into a deputy mayor role. 74 00:06:41,494.932 --> 00:06:53,294.932 How did the board of directors help you before and after some of your key leadership roles? I I started in the mayor's office in early 2017. 75 00:06:53,294.932 --> 00:06:54,554.932 This was first term. 76 00:06:54,804.932 --> 00:06:56,184.932 He is now in his third term. 77 00:06:56,194.932 --> 00:07:00,164.932 A little while ago, but I started out in a project management role. 78 00:07:00,164.932 --> 00:07:03,164.932 I had early career experience in community development. 79 00:07:03,469.932 --> 00:07:05,599.932 Not a lot of experience and really a lot of anything. 80 00:07:05,629.932 --> 00:07:14,589.932 And and not really a community of people around me at that time to turn to, to figure out how to do the work that I was doing. 81 00:07:14,669.932 --> 00:07:15,239.932 And. 82 00:07:15,994.932 --> 00:07:31,684.932 As I became more and more interested in development, in affordable housing, in real estate and as I started to be interested in leadership roles and have those opportunities the woman, the women that are represented here in many ways. 83 00:07:31,699.932 --> 00:07:43,339.932 Came alongside me and saw that I needed mentorship and support and community outside of my specific role or outside of the chain of command that I was part of at the city. 84 00:07:43,639.932 --> 00:07:45,19.932 And I think it has been. 85 00:07:45,574.932 --> 00:07:58,364.932 So helpful in my career to have, to be able to see women out in the affordable housing sector who are really thriving in a way, give back and come alongside people who are still learning which I very much was. 86 00:07:58,414.932 --> 00:08:01,384.932 As I rose to leadership roles at the City of Indianapolis. 87 00:08:02,44.932 --> 00:08:08,284.932 I needed some additional support outside and that became more structural. 88 00:08:08,554.932 --> 00:08:13,654.932 That's when Danny and Janine in particular started meeting with me on a regular basis. 89 00:08:13,894.932 --> 00:08:18,34.932 It became personal and professional, and they supported me. 90 00:08:18,39.932 --> 00:08:33,909.932 Through some personal growth and personal changes that I was experiencing at the same time as taking on more and more leadership responsibilities, both in management and making big decisions in a COVID context for how we were utilizing federal funds and local incentives to support affordable housing. 91 00:08:34,94.932 --> 00:08:34,444.932 Great. 92 00:08:36,519.932 --> 00:08:37,119.932 Awesome. 93 00:08:37,509.932 --> 00:08:37,989.932 Okay. 94 00:08:38,49.932 --> 00:08:48,714.932 How about how do you figure out your people on your board of directors? How do you recruit them? So I'm gonna jump in. 95 00:08:49,164.932 --> 00:08:52,764.932 I think a lot of this happens pretty naturally. 96 00:08:53,14.932 --> 00:08:58,494.932 It's easy to see, who you want to be in your career if you're somewhere in the midpoint. 97 00:08:58,884.932 --> 00:09:00,384.932 It's nice to start there. 98 00:09:00,414.932 --> 00:09:06,264.932 It's always helpful to seek advice from those that have already accomplished what you're looking to accomplish. 99 00:09:06,804.932 --> 00:09:08,514.932 But I think along the way. 100 00:09:09,489.932 --> 00:09:14,499.932 Particularly as women, we forge these relationships that become friendships quite easily. 101 00:09:14,549.932 --> 00:09:15,749.932 We enjoy communicating. 102 00:09:16,109.932 --> 00:09:16,859.932 It's so much fun. 103 00:09:17,9.932 --> 00:09:22,229.932 I hate that to cut that we just hang out. 104 00:09:22,319.932 --> 00:09:36,564.932 No, that is not the way to say that, but we forge these relationships in our professional lives, and our industry does a really good job of creating excuses to get together outside of the office hours. 105 00:09:36,674.932 --> 00:09:40,584.932 WAHN is one of those avenues that you can make connections easily. 106 00:09:41,254.932 --> 00:09:48,514.932 So in addition to just starting with maybe a mentor figure, also identifying your cheerleaders at those events. 107 00:09:48,614.932 --> 00:09:51,14.932 The people that are going to push you a little bit harder. 108 00:09:51,554.932 --> 00:09:55,244.932 I also find seeking advisors to be really important. 109 00:09:55,304.932 --> 00:10:05,564.932 As I was starting my business, it's really hard to figure out what a pricing structure and business model that makes sense, looks like, and so to have. 110 00:10:06,524.932 --> 00:10:13,714.932 People that you can consult, that you can call to help determine some of those things was really impactful for me. 111 00:10:14,104.932 --> 00:10:19,784.932 And so I think those are the lenses that I was examining my board of directors through. 112 00:10:22,814.932 --> 00:10:27,204.932 Yeah, I think also for me I was fortunate enough to be invited to some. 113 00:10:28,519.932 --> 00:10:39,29.932 When I worked in the public sector where I really wasn't the main contributor, I wasn't the one that was critical to be as part of the conversation, but I learned so much. 114 00:10:39,29.932 --> 00:10:49,49.932 So we we started the city of Indianapolis and several nonprofit leaders in the city that were involved in housing, started a group called Think Housing, and Jennifer and Janine were part of that. 115 00:10:49,524.932 --> 00:11:00,584.932 As leaders in the community and I was invited to the table and I remember taking just like copious notes of all the things that they were talking about and really had no idea what they were talking about. 116 00:11:00,584.932 --> 00:11:09,809.932 At the same time, I didn't even know how tax credits worked but I was just making these little graphs and designs of, I think the money goes this way and then it comes back that way. 117 00:11:10,109.932 --> 00:11:16,209.932 But it was so helpful for me to just be in a room of people who were a little bit ahead of me in my career. 118 00:11:16,209.932 --> 00:11:23,109.932 I, now, I'm at a point where I probably need to start looking the other direction and see who I could invite to the room. 119 00:11:23,329.932 --> 00:11:27,49.932 But I was really fortunate to be invited to those spaces. 120 00:11:27,299.932 --> 00:11:39,789.932 And then just starting to gravitate towards those people, as Danny said, gravitate towards those people who were doing things that I felt were really interesting or way beyond my comprehension, or growing in an area that I wanted to grow in. 121 00:11:41,379.932 --> 00:11:41,649.932 Nice. 122 00:11:42,729.932 --> 00:11:43,599.932 I think that's right. 123 00:11:43,599.932 --> 00:11:49,254.932 I think you meet people in different spaces and time depending on where you are in your career. 124 00:11:49,629.932 --> 00:11:51,489.932 And you observe people. 125 00:11:51,899.932 --> 00:11:57,839.932 My whole thing was not necessarily where that person was in. 126 00:11:59,324.932 --> 00:12:02,354.932 Their career, but just how they treated other people. 127 00:12:02,874.932 --> 00:12:14,924.932 And you watch people to see how do they interact with other people and how do they treat other people? And you start to think those are the people that I wanna be around because I want to be that same kind of person. 128 00:12:15,374.932 --> 00:12:21,444.932 And also you also like Scarlett said you start to meet people in these different. 129 00:12:22,299.932 --> 00:12:37,509.932 Communities and groups and adversaries come councils and all of this board of, other boards and you really are just like, wow, this is, these people know way more than I do and I need to get involved with them. 130 00:12:37,959.932 --> 00:12:41,379.932 And and so I think that was part of mine was just. 131 00:12:42,24.932 --> 00:12:48,834.932 Forging those relationships and watching people in different situations and just, seeing what kind of human they were. 132 00:12:48,924.932 --> 00:12:50,724.932 Those are the kind of people I wanna be around. 133 00:12:52,134.932 --> 00:12:52,794.932 I love that. 134 00:12:53,34.932 --> 00:12:54,114.932 I love good humans. 135 00:12:54,534.932 --> 00:12:55,254.932 Okay. 136 00:12:55,254.932 --> 00:13:01,9.932 Tell me a little bit more about your meeting setups. 137 00:13:04,314.932 --> 00:13:05,784.932 I'll start with Scarlett this time. 138 00:13:07,564.932 --> 00:13:12,804.932 So at this point we have a regular meeting that Danny and Jan and I do monthly. 139 00:13:13,134.932 --> 00:13:18,164.932 And so we get together and as they've said, it turns personal as well as professional. 140 00:13:18,414.932 --> 00:13:20,334.932 We do have a notebook. 141 00:13:20,364.932 --> 00:13:23,574.932 Janine is the keeper of the notebook where we put down goals. 142 00:13:24,174.932 --> 00:13:25,994.932 Professional personal. 143 00:13:25,994.932 --> 00:13:30,614.932 I think we have a house goal because all of us have house things that we need to work on. 144 00:13:31,24.932 --> 00:13:34,84.932 And, it just, the conversation really naturally flows. 145 00:13:34,334.932 --> 00:13:40,654.932 We come back to the notebook sometimes and away from it, but it, but really it's about prioritizing. 146 00:13:40,744.932 --> 00:13:51,864.932 I think that meeting on a monthly basis, we, we will reschedule if we need to, but for the most part, we really try to maintain that and I think all of us prioritize that in a way that is really special. 147 00:13:52,14.932 --> 00:13:57,424.932 And that, that I think is key for me is remembering how important that, that time is for us. 148 00:13:57,704.932 --> 00:14:09,844.932 And as I said, I think I'm at the point where I'd like to be a part of other groups too and see what I could foster among other women that are in the general community and economic developments here in Indianapolis. 149 00:14:09,894.932 --> 00:14:13,784.932 I'm part of another group with the women in Public Finance of Indiana. 150 00:14:13,784.932 --> 00:14:18,99.932 And and exploring what we could do in smaller group structures of those women as well. 151 00:14:20,109.932 --> 00:14:20,829.932 Nice. 152 00:14:21,179.932 --> 00:14:21,569.932 Yeah. 153 00:14:21,689.932 --> 00:14:24,359.932 How about you, Jennifer? Tell me about your meeting set up. 154 00:14:25,139.932 --> 00:14:35,119.932 Like I said we were meeting really on a monthly basis and we would give everybody an assignment when it was your month to decide where we wanted to meet. 155 00:14:35,689.932 --> 00:14:38,119.932 Usually it starts about four 30. 156 00:14:38,329.932 --> 00:14:41,779.932 And again, it's somewhere that involves alcohol. 157 00:14:42,229.932 --> 00:14:52,879.932 And usually we always would try to go somewhere new where, none of us had been before or where we thought, and we did this just like a regular board, there were six of us. 158 00:14:53,179.932 --> 00:14:54,769.932 Our quorum was three. 159 00:14:54,799.932 --> 00:14:56,389.932 So if at least three people. 160 00:14:57,649.932 --> 00:15:00,589.932 We're able to come, we'd can, we would go ahead and meet. 161 00:15:00,589.932 --> 00:15:01,669.932 We wouldn't cancel. 162 00:15:02,99.932 --> 00:15:03,719.932 And so we would do it that way. 163 00:15:03,969.932 --> 00:15:16,639.932 But normally it was, someplace like that where we could just talk and laugh and communicate and talk through things and get advice and, hear what other people were going on. 164 00:15:16,639.932 --> 00:15:18,259.932 It was funny because you could. 165 00:15:18,869.932 --> 00:15:30,579.932 Start to see each other's personality based on where they picked to go, places that I probably wouldn't have picked on my own, but I was glad that, they took me there. 166 00:15:30,579.932 --> 00:15:34,149.932 And so it was just those kind of things were fun. 167 00:15:34,369.932 --> 00:15:36,449.932 And we gave people opportunities too. 168 00:15:36,499.932 --> 00:15:39,499.932 If somebody would pick somewhere and somebody said, Hey, I gotta. 169 00:15:39,919.932 --> 00:15:46,669.932 Another meeting after this, can we make it closer to there so I don't have to do this, or I gotta pick kids up or things like that. 170 00:15:46,669.932 --> 00:15:48,949.932 So it was, pretty interactive. 171 00:15:49,99.932 --> 00:15:58,339.932 But and usually we, we would plan from four 30 to six and sometimes it'd go till six 30, sometimes it'd go till seven, and some of us might be there till eight. 172 00:15:58,549.932 --> 00:16:01,469.932 It just depended on, what was going on in life. 173 00:16:01,859.932 --> 00:16:17,829.932 The other thing I would say about, as we talked in the group at the summit, that, Janine is the glue in, in, in all of this because Janine would always meet with me 'cause she was my board chair at one time, and we'd go over things. 174 00:16:18,189.932 --> 00:16:22,269.932 But I never had to say, where are we meeting? 'cause it would always be Upland Brewery. 175 00:16:22,269.932 --> 00:16:30,859.932 I just never, that would never have to be a situation where are we meeting today, Janine? We still do that. 176 00:16:30,859.932 --> 00:16:40,264.932 We've done that, since I've been gone and it's just been, invaluable to have those type of conversations and mentors and friendships. 177 00:16:41,269.932 --> 00:16:43,429.932 I love that you guys have a quorum rule. 178 00:16:43,549.932 --> 00:16:44,899.932 That is amazing. 179 00:16:45,59.932 --> 00:16:46,259.932 That's a nice touch. 180 00:16:46,309.932 --> 00:16:51,589.932 I think one of the things that Scarlett has alluded to, which was. 181 00:16:52,134.932 --> 00:16:59,234.932 It, which is very important to all of us, is bringing up that next generation of women leaders. 182 00:16:59,654.932 --> 00:17:19,234.932 So do you guys have any recommendations for folks on how they might build their own kind of personal board of directors if they're early in their career? I think if you're early in your career, start paying attention. 183 00:17:19,684.932 --> 00:17:31,504.932 Again, maybe a mentor figure and see if you can identify a mentor that's going to push you, but also pay attention to those around you that might be in a similar situation. 184 00:17:31,864.932 --> 00:17:43,174.932 In those meetings, you can always tell who's asking the right questions, even if you don't know the answers, but maybe they ask with a little bit of bravery or, they're bringing interesting perspectives to a conversation. 185 00:17:43,534.932 --> 00:17:46,54.932 I think those are the people that you want. 186 00:17:46,549.932 --> 00:18:06,619.932 To have on your side and in your corner, and like Jennifer alluded to, do they have a great energy? You're gonna need that, particularly when you're early in your career, you're going to need somebody that's going to support you and say, yeah, today was a terrible day, we can figure this out and be in your corner as you figure that out. 187 00:18:11,679.932 --> 00:18:16,729.932 I also think for those that are later in their careers, I put myself in that bucket. 188 00:18:16,729.932 --> 00:18:18,199.932 Now same thing. 189 00:18:18,199.932 --> 00:18:20,479.932 Pay attention to who's asking good questions. 190 00:18:20,749.932 --> 00:18:21,134.932 Who is. 191 00:18:21,874.932 --> 00:18:36,694.932 The one taking notes and quiet, maybe quietly observing, but you can tell by the one question that they ask that there's the wheels are turning and it's in the right direction, and maybe a little bit of clarity can offer that person new opportunities and new understanding. 192 00:18:38,674.932 --> 00:18:46,954.932 I think the other thing is that when you're looking for people you don't want it, you want your group to be pretty diverse. 193 00:18:46,984.932 --> 00:18:52,834.932 You don't want it to be just people that are gonna continue to pump you up 'cause that's okay. 194 00:18:53,194.932 --> 00:18:55,504.932 But you need people that are gonna say. 195 00:18:56,329.932 --> 00:18:58,939.932 You know what? You're having a really bad day today. 196 00:18:59,239.932 --> 00:19:00,679.932 Get your act together. 197 00:19:00,709.932 --> 00:19:03,134.932 Here's what you know you probably need to do. 198 00:19:03,524.932 --> 00:19:08,194.932 And you need to have, disagreement sometimes because that makes all of us better. 199 00:19:08,604.932 --> 00:19:19,344.932 So you're looking for that kind of people and you want that group to be diverse and e and even in our group, the diversity came from not all of us. 200 00:19:19,899.932 --> 00:19:37,39.932 Had been in that supportive housing sector, we all were coming from different, we had people that were coming from corporate positions, other people from, some social services, but just a, just a wide variety of where everybody was coming from. 201 00:19:37,129.932 --> 00:19:38,329.932 And that's what you want. 202 00:19:38,329.932 --> 00:19:40,249.932 'cause you want those different opinions. 203 00:19:40,249.932 --> 00:19:41,209.932 You want those different. 204 00:19:42,574.932 --> 00:19:44,964.932 Views of things that are going on. 205 00:19:45,354.932 --> 00:19:48,384.932 And don't be afraid to ask somebody. 206 00:19:48,804.932 --> 00:19:54,174.932 People are gonna be honored that you ask them to be part of your personal board of directors. 207 00:19:54,174.932 --> 00:19:58,614.932 Look at that and just think, who can make me more well-rounded, in what I do. 208 00:20:01,494.932 --> 00:20:12,104.932 Yeah, I think just to piggyback off of Jennifer, I think not being afraid to be an advocate for the kind of spaces that you wanna be in and to seek out people. 209 00:20:12,104.932 --> 00:20:14,564.932 And if you're early in your career. 210 00:20:14,924.932 --> 00:20:26,264.932 I think you have a lot of room, whether you feel that or not, to ask people to go get coffee, to express to them that you find what they're doing really interesting and you wanna learn more about it. 211 00:20:26,474.932 --> 00:20:27,139.932 I think you have. 212 00:20:27,914.932 --> 00:20:30,174.932 You have the freedom to do that. 213 00:20:30,174.932 --> 00:20:33,144.932 And the worst that people could say is no, or I don't have time. 214 00:20:33,414.932 --> 00:20:38,14.932 And you can take that as not personal and take and move on to the next person. 215 00:20:38,264.932 --> 00:20:42,674.932 But I think you're gonna find that enough people are really willing to be a part of that. 216 00:20:42,914.932 --> 00:20:48,464.932 As I said, that's something that I want right now is to be part of a group of other young women who are. 217 00:20:49,64.932 --> 00:21:09,664.932 I guess I'm not part of the young part anymore, but I'd be a part of women who are coming up in, in these spaces and be talking about how the next step of affordable housing, the next step of housing in general, the next step of economic development in our city and state goes and so yeah, I would have those conversations. 218 00:21:11,119.932 --> 00:21:26,329.932 I, I think the other thing that I really appreciated about this group is also that when you make these connections, they could also lead to other career points in your job because people start to know, what you're interested in. 219 00:21:26,569.932 --> 00:21:29,824.932 If they're not interested, they might connect somebody who's better. 220 00:21:30,434.932 --> 00:21:39,584.932 But also the other thing that I've really seen is that what happens is these same folks are advocating for you in spaces where you're not. 221 00:21:39,914.932 --> 00:21:58,44.932 I remember a particular example where somebody that Danny was talking to had a not so nice analysis of, the critique that Scarlett gave from the mayor's office, and Danny put that guy right in check and he, she was like, excuse me. 222 00:21:58,104.932 --> 00:22:00,264.932 You would've not said that about a man. 223 00:22:00,444.932 --> 00:22:07,114.932 You only said that about a woman, so I'm gonna need you to change the way that you had that, and Scarlett wasn't there. 224 00:22:07,319.932 --> 00:22:20,129.932 She didn't know about it, but, or she knew about it later, but the whole purpose is that then you, people know more who you are and they're advocating for you in spaces where you're not. 225 00:22:21,359.932 --> 00:22:22,914.932 So yeah I think that's great too. 226 00:22:22,914.932 --> 00:22:25,104.932 And I'm gonna do another Danny example. 227 00:22:25,434.932 --> 00:22:28,789.932 Just having that relationship with her and. 228 00:22:29,559.932 --> 00:22:45,349.932 Having situations that I've been in before where we had a situation not earlier this year where she had a client that and she had put me down as a reference and I talked to this client and I explained to them, who they were and what they do. 229 00:22:45,679.932 --> 00:22:51,929.932 But I also explained, if that's not what you're looking for, you need to be able to tell her, don't keep this. 230 00:22:52,679.932 --> 00:22:56,429.932 Stringing her on and saying things like this, like that. 231 00:22:56,819.932 --> 00:23:05,539.932 And so I think when you know a person you know what to say in those situations so that you know that person doesn't get led. 232 00:23:05,914.932 --> 00:23:10,884.932 Astray or just, go down a path that, they don't need to go down. 233 00:23:10,884.932 --> 00:23:14,514.932 And so as soon as I got off the phone, I called Danny and I said, here's what I said. 234 00:23:14,904.932 --> 00:23:26,224.932 And and she was like, I was thinking the same thing, so I'm so glad you said it, but sometimes you can't say that to a prospective client, but as a person, that I'm a room reference. 235 00:23:26,224.932 --> 00:23:28,149.932 I said it nicely, but I also was saying. 236 00:23:29,404.932 --> 00:23:32,404.932 I felt like I was giving her a way out if she wanted one. 237 00:23:32,734.932 --> 00:23:37,804.932 So I think, if things like that it's beneficial to have those type of people in your corner. 238 00:23:39,34.932 --> 00:23:39,574.932 Nice. 239 00:23:40,654.932 --> 00:23:41,254.932 Okay. 240 00:23:41,254.932 --> 00:23:48,664.932 As we approach the end of our topics, I wanna give each one of you a chance to maybe close with a closing thought. 241 00:23:51,379.932 --> 00:23:53,329.932 And I'll start with Jennifer on this one. 242 00:23:53,329.932 --> 00:23:55,789.932 'cause I don't think she's gone first yet, oh, wow. 243 00:23:55,789.932 --> 00:23:56,239.932 Thank you. 244 00:23:56,549.932 --> 00:24:05,339.932 Again, I just wanna say I didn't know that I had a personal board of directors until, we put that name to it, so it's a good thing. 245 00:24:05,699.932 --> 00:24:09,539.932 But I also think the other thing for me has been. 246 00:24:10,499.932 --> 00:24:19,739.932 As I was getting close to ending my career, was being there for people that are up and coming. 247 00:24:20,129.932 --> 00:24:24,599.932 As Janine knows, I'm not a let's have coffee, let you know. 248 00:24:24,599.932 --> 00:24:29,639.932 I'm not that kind of person, but I made myself available. 249 00:24:29,954.932 --> 00:24:34,724.932 To people, especially to women that were, that wanted to know about this industry. 250 00:24:35,34.932 --> 00:24:36,414.932 That had questions. 251 00:24:36,774.932 --> 00:24:42,414.932 I just made myself available and it made me better too, to have those conversations. 252 00:24:42,414.932 --> 00:24:48,644.932 'cause you're talking about an industry, I'm talking about an industry that I had been in for, 30 years of my life. 253 00:24:48,644.932 --> 00:24:50,904.932 So it's, this is an industry I love. 254 00:24:51,234.932 --> 00:24:54,894.932 So when you hear yourself talking about it, you go, okay, this is why. 255 00:24:55,719.932 --> 00:24:58,89.932 I do this, so this is why I did this. 256 00:24:58,659.932 --> 00:25:01,419.932 And so I think that helped. 257 00:25:01,419.932 --> 00:25:08,659.932 And then being able to put them on a path to create their, personal board of directors. 258 00:25:08,659.932 --> 00:25:19,629.932 I think that's where I've got the most satisfaction is in that way of, having my own, but being able to put other people on that path and just being there. 259 00:25:20,619.932 --> 00:25:27,299.932 To, ask answer questions and see what they have on their mind and and just making yourself available. 260 00:25:32,219.932 --> 00:25:32,639.932 All right. 261 00:25:32,999.932 --> 00:25:37,739.932 Danny Scarlett, which one of you wants to go next? I can jump in. 262 00:25:37,839.932 --> 00:25:38,559.932 I think. 263 00:25:39,444.932 --> 00:25:45,384.932 What it can sound that like we're talking about here is mentorship and that's a piece of it. 264 00:25:45,384.932 --> 00:25:57,334.932 But I guess to distinguish personal board of directors, I think there's a lot of value in having a group and a structure to it that creates accountability and creates community. 265 00:25:57,844.932 --> 00:26:02,574.932 And I think that is something distinct that is worth. 266 00:26:03,519.932 --> 00:26:23,119.932 Creating for yourself or trying to be a part of? Because I think so much of this standing up for each other holding people accountable sharing ideas and getting feedback is created in a group structure at least for a few people and over time and over commitment to that. 267 00:26:23,174.932 --> 00:26:25,334.932 Yes, seek out one-on-one mentorships. 268 00:26:25,334.932 --> 00:26:31,969.932 And I think those are valuable for other reasons, but I think this personal board of directors concept is really powerful for that accountability and community. 269 00:26:35,194.932 --> 00:26:42,79.932 And I'm recalling, when I first used the term personal board of directors, I read it in a business book. 270 00:26:42,129.932 --> 00:26:52,659.932 But something else I read in a business book, and I said this at the conference as well, was that you, I had read, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. 271 00:26:53,229.932 --> 00:26:55,449.932 And I was really looking to. 272 00:26:55,824.932 --> 00:27:02,334.932 Beef up those people I was investing my time with which sounds very self-serving. 273 00:27:02,334.932 --> 00:27:04,644.932 And to be clear, it certainly is. 274 00:27:04,824.932 --> 00:27:08,214.932 These have been transformative relationships in my life. 275 00:27:08,604.932 --> 00:27:30,794.932 All three of you have seen me through crazy Life chapters and career chapters and starting a business and staff, starting a family, and we've seen each other through a lot of life I feel that my life has made, has been made so much more rich by these relationships and the way that you both support and challenge me. 276 00:27:31,134.932 --> 00:27:33,504.932 So I'm just really grateful and would. 277 00:27:34,254.932 --> 00:27:36,774.932 Be happy to share my contact information. 278 00:27:36,774.932 --> 00:27:38,94.932 I hope it's in the show notes. 279 00:27:38,404.932 --> 00:27:44,874.932 So anybody that has questions about, forging their own personal board of directors, I'd be happy to help facilitate and make connections. 280 00:27:45,894.932 --> 00:27:46,554.932 I love that. 281 00:27:47,64.932 --> 00:28:02,614.932 I would say the other thing that I really got out of the board of directors, especially during critical career transitions, is that it creates a safe space where you can talk about things that you may not be able to talk to other people about yet. 282 00:28:03,134.932 --> 00:28:07,724.932 So it's very nice just to have people that are gonna give you feedback. 283 00:28:07,949.932 --> 00:28:16,509.932 That you may or may not wanna hear, because that's what really makes it work is having a group of people that are willing to say things to you that. 284 00:28:16,764.932 --> 00:28:20,124.932 It may not make you feel good, but they're gonna make you better. 285 00:28:20,374.932 --> 00:28:24,514.932 And every person here has been that to me as well. 286 00:28:24,514.932 --> 00:28:31,834.932 So I'm very thankful for the networks and the people and the women that stick together in Indiana. 287 00:28:32,134.932 --> 00:28:39,24.932 And as I watch the field grow I think we've heard from all of us that we're all willing to help. 288 00:28:39,729.932 --> 00:28:42,939.932 Other women grow in this field. 289 00:28:42,939.932 --> 00:28:52,899.932 And for myself, it's also women and people of color, people that don't usually have access to the same rooms and frames and opportunities. 290 00:28:53,169.932 --> 00:28:58,659.932 It's many of our goals to help open those doors for everybody else. 291 00:28:58,899.932 --> 00:29:05,919.932 So yes, please reach out to us and let us know how we can help you, and we really appreciate your time today. 292 00:29:07,299.932 --> 00:29:07,839.932 Thank you. 293 00:29:07,989.932 --> 00:29:08,619.932 Thank you. 294 00:29:11,769.932 --> 00:29:17,139.932 Thanks for being here with us on WAHNcast, the official podcast of the Women's Affordable Housing Network. 295 00:29:17,529.932 --> 00:29:25,749.932 Every guest, every story, every listen, helps us keep this space real rooted and resonant, and we're so glad you're a part of it. 296 00:29:26,169.932 --> 00:29:29,49.932 Big thanks to our guests for sharing their time and knowledge with us. 297 00:29:29,484.932 --> 00:29:37,254.932 To our sponsors for making this platform possible and to you for tuning in, sharing and helping us keep this conversation going. 298 00:29:37,944.932 --> 00:29:43,374.932 Be sure to follow rate and share WAHNcast wherever you listen and bring a friend next time We saved them a seat.
Welcome to WAHNcast, the official podcast of the Women's Affordable Housing Network.
This is our space to connect, get real, and talk about what's really happening in housing.
From bold leadership to resident stories that ground us in purpose.
We're here to amplify voices, strengthen each other, and share the kind of conversations you'd have with a friend who gets it.
(00:21):
Because when our voices are amplified, our communities grow stronger, and so do we. 6 00:00:28,619.932 --> 00:00:41,939.932 In this episode, we're joined by four incredible women from Indiana, Juan, Janine, Betsy, Scarlet Andrews, Jennifer Green, and Danielle Smith who brought the house down at our 2025 summit with their session on building your personal board of directors. 7 00:00:42,269.932 --> 00:00:45,209.932 It was so good we had to hit replay for Juan Cast. 8 00:00:45,539.932 --> 00:00:53,684.932 You'll hear how they've surrounded themselves with the right mix of mentors, sponsors, and truth tellers, and how those relationships have shaped both their careers and their lives. 9 00:00:54,389.932 --> 00:00:59,969.932 It's a conversation full of practical advice and the kind of connection that reminds us in housing and in life. 10 00:01:00,179.932 --> 00:01:02,789.932 The right people in your corner make all the difference. 11 00:01:04,979.932 --> 00:01:10,799.932 welcome to the Indiana Ladies of the Women in Affordable Housing Network. 12 00:01:11,69.932 --> 00:01:15,209.932 This is a rehash of a session that was at this year's National Summit. 13 00:01:15,764.932 --> 00:01:30,404.932 Danielle Smith, Scarlett Andrews and Jennifer Green are each going to introduce themselves, tell you a little bit about themselves, and then we'll start with today's session, which is about building a personal board of directors. 14 00:01:31,19.932 --> 00:01:33,659.932 Danny, would you like to start us all? Definitely. 15 00:01:33,899.932 --> 00:01:35,369.932 My name is Danielle Smith. 16 00:01:35,429.932 --> 00:01:38,309.932 I am the CEO of First Phase Strategies. 17 00:01:38,339.932 --> 00:01:47,619.932 We are a uniform relocation act compliant consultancy that works primarily in the multifamily housing market. 18 00:01:48,769.932 --> 00:01:49,449.932 Scarlett, you're up. 19 00:01:50,559.932 --> 00:01:51,549.932 Scarlett Andrews. 20 00:01:51,549.932 --> 00:01:52,869.932 I work for Hageman Capital. 21 00:01:52,869.932 --> 00:01:55,779.932 We're part of a family office based in Carmel, Indiana. 22 00:01:55,989.932 --> 00:01:58,329.932 We invest in real estate in a variety of different ways. 23 00:01:58,379.932 --> 00:02:06,904.932 When I first was part of this conversation, I was with one of our other verticals, TNH Investments, which poses on building and managing affordable housing. 24 00:02:09,964.932 --> 00:02:10,984.932 Hello everybody. 25 00:02:10,984.932 --> 00:02:20,154.932 Jennifer Green retired Executive Director of Partners in Housing Current board president of the Indiana WAHN chapter. 26 00:02:20,274.932 --> 00:02:23,584.932 And just excited to talk with these ladies today. 27 00:02:24,4.932 --> 00:02:28,984.932 I was trying to think the other day how long combined we've all known each other and I decided not to. 28 00:02:30,664.932 --> 00:02:31,744.932 It's a lot of years. 29 00:02:32,134.932 --> 00:02:33,94.932 It's a lot of years. 30 00:02:34,984.932 --> 00:02:35,824.932 Okay. 31 00:02:35,884.932 --> 00:02:36,484.932 All right. 32 00:02:36,484.932 --> 00:02:39,454.932 For today we're gonna talk about a number of items. 33 00:02:39,694.932 --> 00:02:45,34.932 We're gonna talk about encouraging women to build a network of women and ally advisors. 34 00:02:45,304.932 --> 00:02:49,669.932 What kind of action steps it might take to build your own personal board of direct. 35 00:02:51,264.932 --> 00:02:59,464.932 And what are some long-term impacts from building your own board of directors? So we're gonna start off with Danny. 36 00:02:59,714.932 --> 00:03:09,674.932 Can you talk to us about how you first started this idea of personal board of directors, what it means and why it's valuable? Sure. 37 00:03:09,674.932 --> 00:03:13,304.932 So I had noticed some patterns as I was. 38 00:03:13,854.932 --> 00:03:17,664.932 Sort of midstream in my career as opposed to where I am now. 39 00:03:17,694.932 --> 00:03:18,809.932 I guess it's not really the advanced. 40 00:03:19,929.932 --> 00:03:20,949.932 End of my career. 41 00:03:20,949.932 --> 00:03:28,409.932 I had my first couple jobs and I was seeking mentorship and trying to find really my place in the industry. 42 00:03:28,829.932 --> 00:03:33,269.932 And I was having, I continued having conversations with the same people. 43 00:03:33,469.932 --> 00:03:35,209.932 Jennifer, you were one of them. 44 00:03:35,239.932 --> 00:03:37,519.932 Janine, you were certainly one of them. 45 00:03:37,819.932 --> 00:03:43,749.932 And over time these relationships really solidified to the point where I would have. 46 00:03:43,889.932 --> 00:03:54,449.932 Small groups together and we just started having continued conversation that merited a regularly scheduled program. 47 00:03:54,659.932 --> 00:03:58,559.932 And so at some point we called this our personal board of directors. 48 00:03:58,799.932 --> 00:04:01,529.932 We now have a monthly meeting. 49 00:04:01,609.932 --> 00:04:16,879.932 And we, this is just a way for us to continue to push each other continue to build in our careers and support each other in not just our professional realm, but it has really spilled over into general life which has been a real pleasure. 50 00:04:18,604.932 --> 00:04:19,384.932 I love that. 51 00:04:19,684.932 --> 00:04:20,344.932 All right. 52 00:04:20,824.932 --> 00:04:32,744.932 How about Jennifer, will you talk a little bit about your personal board of directors and how you've worked it in your career at Partners in Housing? Yeah. 53 00:04:32,774.932 --> 00:04:34,874.932 And as I talked before, that. 54 00:04:35,624.932 --> 00:04:38,264.932 Your personal board of directors can change. 55 00:04:38,264.932 --> 00:04:42,654.932 You can add people, you can it just depends on where you are in your career. 56 00:04:43,54.932 --> 00:04:48,734.932 At Partners in Housing because we were a supportive housing provider. 57 00:04:49,94.932 --> 00:04:59,674.932 One day a few of us woke up and just figured out that all of the major supportive housing agencies in Indianapolis were led by women. 58 00:05:00,19.932 --> 00:05:02,509.932 Which, we figured we, we were great. 59 00:05:02,959.932 --> 00:05:12,639.932 And so we started doing a monthly meeting called VIM, which on your calendar so people wouldn't know what it was. 60 00:05:12,639.932 --> 00:05:19,779.932 It means very important meeting and we would all get together and at different places. 61 00:05:19,779.932 --> 00:05:22,869.932 Drinks were always involved that had to be involved. 62 00:05:23,319.932 --> 00:05:40,859.932 And we would just talk about, the landscape that we were in we always would bring a story, which I really liked about an employee that was out of control and everyone always had those stories and we gave each other advice on how to deal with that and what to do. 63 00:05:41,339.932 --> 00:05:45,69.932 And the great thing about that is that personal board of directors is. 64 00:05:45,894.932 --> 00:05:47,334.932 Still a part of my life. 65 00:05:47,334.932 --> 00:05:50,814.932 They've still continued to include me even though I've retired. 66 00:05:50,814.932 --> 00:06:04,674.932 And so it's, it was just a great experience and having those other five women in a room, you would be surprised at how much we could get done and be on the same page so that when it came to. 67 00:06:05,394.932 --> 00:06:12,204.932 Bigger things in a wider ran landscape, and maybe one of us was in the room and the rest of us weren't. 68 00:06:12,654.932 --> 00:06:19,144.932 We were able to, s speak for each other and say, here's what we need and here's what we want. 69 00:06:19,144.932 --> 00:06:23,854.932 And just like Danny said, it became, personal too. 70 00:06:23,854.932 --> 00:06:28,704.932 Weddings and births and divorces and deaths and all those things, and it's just. 71 00:06:29,244.932 --> 00:06:31,744.932 And a wonderful part for me. 72 00:06:33,724.932 --> 00:06:34,474.932 I love that. 73 00:06:34,804.932 --> 00:06:41,224.932 How about you, Scarlett? You worked up the mayor's office into a deputy mayor role. 74 00:06:41,494.932 --> 00:06:53,294.932 How did the board of directors help you before and after some of your key leadership roles? I I started in the mayor's office in early 2017. 75 00:06:53,294.932 --> 00:06:54,554.932 This was first term. 76 00:06:54,804.932 --> 00:06:56,184.932 He is now in his third term. 77 00:06:56,194.932 --> 00:07:00,164.932 A little while ago, but I started out in a project management role. 78 00:07:00,164.932 --> 00:07:03,164.932 I had early career experience in community development. 79 00:07:03,469.932 --> 00:07:05,599.932 Not a lot of experience and really a lot of anything. 80 00:07:05,629.932 --> 00:07:14,589.932 And and not really a community of people around me at that time to turn to, to figure out how to do the work that I was doing. 81 00:07:14,669.932 --> 00:07:15,239.932 And. 82 00:07:15,994.932 --> 00:07:31,684.932 As I became more and more interested in development, in affordable housing, in real estate and as I started to be interested in leadership roles and have those opportunities the woman, the women that are represented here in many ways. 83 00:07:31,699.932 --> 00:07:43,339.932 Came alongside me and saw that I needed mentorship and support and community outside of my specific role or outside of the chain of command that I was part of at the city. 84 00:07:43,639.932 --> 00:07:45,19.932 And I think it has been. 85 00:07:45,574.932 --> 00:07:58,364.932 So helpful in my career to have, to be able to see women out in the affordable housing sector who are really thriving in a way, give back and come alongside people who are still learning which I very much was. 86 00:07:58,414.932 --> 00:08:01,384.932 As I rose to leadership roles at the City of Indianapolis. 87 00:08:02,44.932 --> 00:08:08,284.932 I needed some additional support outside and that became more structural. 88 00:08:08,554.932 --> 00:08:13,654.932 That's when Danny and Janine in particular started meeting with me on a regular basis. 89 00:08:13,894.932 --> 00:08:18,34.932 It became personal and professional, and they supported me. 90 00:08:18,39.932 --> 00:08:33,909.932 Through some personal growth and personal changes that I was experiencing at the same time as taking on more and more leadership responsibilities, both in management and making big decisions in a COVID context for how we were utilizing federal funds and local incentives to support affordable housing. 91 00:08:34,94.932 --> 00:08:34,444.932 Great. 92 00:08:36,519.932 --> 00:08:37,119.932 Awesome. 93 00:08:37,509.932 --> 00:08:37,989.932 Okay. 94 00:08:38,49.932 --> 00:08:48,714.932 How about how do you figure out your people on your board of directors? How do you recruit them? So I'm gonna jump in. 95 00:08:49,164.932 --> 00:08:52,764.932 I think a lot of this happens pretty naturally. 96 00:08:53,14.932 --> 00:08:58,494.932 It's easy to see, who you want to be in your career if you're somewhere in the midpoint. 97 00:08:58,884.932 --> 00:09:00,384.932 It's nice to start there. 98 00:09:00,414.932 --> 00:09:06,264.932 It's always helpful to seek advice from those that have already accomplished what you're looking to accomplish. 99 00:09:06,804.932 --> 00:09:08,514.932 But I think along the way. 100 00:09:09,489.932 --> 00:09:14,499.932 Particularly as women, we forge these relationships that become friendships quite easily. 101 00:09:14,549.932 --> 00:09:15,749.932 We enjoy communicating. 102 00:09:16,109.932 --> 00:09:16,859.932 It's so much fun. 103 00:09:17,9.932 --> 00:09:22,229.932 I hate that to cut that we just hang out. 104 00:09:22,319.932 --> 00:09:36,564.932 No, that is not the way to say that, but we forge these relationships in our professional lives, and our industry does a really good job of creating excuses to get together outside of the office hours. 105 00:09:36,674.932 --> 00:09:40,584.932 WAHN is one of those avenues that you can make connections easily. 106 00:09:41,254.932 --> 00:09:48,514.932 So in addition to just starting with maybe a mentor figure, also identifying your cheerleaders at those events. 107 00:09:48,614.932 --> 00:09:51,14.932 The people that are going to push you a little bit harder. 108 00:09:51,554.932 --> 00:09:55,244.932 I also find seeking advisors to be really important. 109 00:09:55,304.932 --> 00:10:05,564.932 As I was starting my business, it's really hard to figure out what a pricing structure and business model that makes sense, looks like, and so to have. 110 00:10:06,524.932 --> 00:10:13,714.932 People that you can consult, that you can call to help determine some of those things was really impactful for me. 111 00:10:14,104.932 --> 00:10:19,784.932 And so I think those are the lenses that I was examining my board of directors through. 112 00:10:22,814.932 --> 00:10:27,204.932 Yeah, I think also for me I was fortunate enough to be invited to some. 113 00:10:28,519.932 --> 00:10:39,29.932 When I worked in the public sector where I really wasn't the main contributor, I wasn't the one that was critical to be as part of the conversation, but I learned so much. 114 00:10:39,29.932 --> 00:10:49,49.932 So we we started the city of Indianapolis and several nonprofit leaders in the city that were involved in housing, started a group called Think Housing, and Jennifer and Janine were part of that. 115 00:10:49,524.932 --> 00:11:00,584.932 As leaders in the community and I was invited to the table and I remember taking just like copious notes of all the things that they were talking about and really had no idea what they were talking about. 116 00:11:00,584.932 --> 00:11:09,809.932 At the same time, I didn't even know how tax credits worked but I was just making these little graphs and designs of, I think the money goes this way and then it comes back that way. 117 00:11:10,109.932 --> 00:11:16,209.932 But it was so helpful for me to just be in a room of people who were a little bit ahead of me in my career. 118 00:11:16,209.932 --> 00:11:23,109.932 I, now, I'm at a point where I probably need to start looking the other direction and see who I could invite to the room. 119 00:11:23,329.932 --> 00:11:27,49.932 But I was really fortunate to be invited to those spaces. 120 00:11:27,299.932 --> 00:11:39,789.932 And then just starting to gravitate towards those people, as Danny said, gravitate towards those people who were doing things that I felt were really interesting or way beyond my comprehension, or growing in an area that I wanted to grow in. 121 00:11:41,379.932 --> 00:11:41,649.932 Nice. 122 00:11:42,729.932 --> 00:11:43,599.932 I think that's right. 123 00:11:43,599.932 --> 00:11:49,254.932 I think you meet people in different spaces and time depending on where you are in your career. 124 00:11:49,629.932 --> 00:11:51,489.932 And you observe people. 125 00:11:51,899.932 --> 00:11:57,839.932 My whole thing was not necessarily where that person was in. 126 00:11:59,324.932 --> 00:12:02,354.932 Their career, but just how they treated other people. 127 00:12:02,874.932 --> 00:12:14,924.932 And you watch people to see how do they interact with other people and how do they treat other people? And you start to think those are the people that I wanna be around because I want to be that same kind of person. 128 00:12:15,374.932 --> 00:12:21,444.932 And also you also like Scarlett said you start to meet people in these different. 129 00:12:22,299.932 --> 00:12:37,509.932 Communities and groups and adversaries come councils and all of this board of, other boards and you really are just like, wow, this is, these people know way more than I do and I need to get involved with them. 130 00:12:37,959.932 --> 00:12:41,379.932 And and so I think that was part of mine was just. 131 00:12:42,24.932 --> 00:12:48,834.932 Forging those relationships and watching people in different situations and just, seeing what kind of human they were. 132 00:12:48,924.932 --> 00:12:50,724.932 Those are the kind of people I wanna be around. 133 00:12:52,134.932 --> 00:12:52,794.932 I love that. 134 00:12:53,34.932 --> 00:12:54,114.932 I love good humans. 135 00:12:54,534.932 --> 00:12:55,254.932 Okay. 136 00:12:55,254.932 --> 00:13:01,9.932 Tell me a little bit more about your meeting setups. 137 00:13:04,314.932 --> 00:13:05,784.932 I'll start with Scarlett this time. 138 00:13:07,564.932 --> 00:13:12,804.932 So at this point we have a regular meeting that Danny and Jan and I do monthly. 139 00:13:13,134.932 --> 00:13:18,164.932 And so we get together and as they've said, it turns personal as well as professional. 140 00:13:18,414.932 --> 00:13:20,334.932 We do have a notebook. 141 00:13:20,364.932 --> 00:13:23,574.932 Janine is the keeper of the notebook where we put down goals. 142 00:13:24,174.932 --> 00:13:25,994.932 Professional personal. 143 00:13:25,994.932 --> 00:13:30,614.932 I think we have a house goal because all of us have house things that we need to work on. 144 00:13:31,24.932 --> 00:13:34,84.932 And, it just, the conversation really naturally flows. 145 00:13:34,334.932 --> 00:13:40,654.932 We come back to the notebook sometimes and away from it, but it, but really it's about prioritizing. 146 00:13:40,744.932 --> 00:13:51,864.932 I think that meeting on a monthly basis, we, we will reschedule if we need to, but for the most part, we really try to maintain that and I think all of us prioritize that in a way that is really special. 147 00:13:52,14.932 --> 00:13:57,424.932 And that, that I think is key for me is remembering how important that, that time is for us. 148 00:13:57,704.932 --> 00:14:09,844.932 And as I said, I think I'm at the point where I'd like to be a part of other groups too and see what I could foster among other women that are in the general community and economic developments here in Indianapolis. 149 00:14:09,894.932 --> 00:14:13,784.932 I'm part of another group with the women in Public Finance of Indiana. 150 00:14:13,784.932 --> 00:14:18,99.932 And and exploring what we could do in smaller group structures of those women as well. 151 00:14:20,109.932 --> 00:14:20,829.932 Nice. 152 00:14:21,179.932 --> 00:14:21,569.932 Yeah. 153 00:14:21,689.932 --> 00:14:24,359.932 How about you, Jennifer? Tell me about your meeting set up. 154 00:14:25,139.932 --> 00:14:35,119.932 Like I said we were meeting really on a monthly basis and we would give everybody an assignment when it was your month to decide where we wanted to meet. 155 00:14:35,689.932 --> 00:14:38,119.932 Usually it starts about four 30. 156 00:14:38,329.932 --> 00:14:41,779.932 And again, it's somewhere that involves alcohol. 157 00:14:42,229.932 --> 00:14:52,879.932 And usually we always would try to go somewhere new where, none of us had been before or where we thought, and we did this just like a regular board, there were six of us. 158 00:14:53,179.932 --> 00:14:54,769.932 Our quorum was three. 159 00:14:54,799.932 --> 00:14:56,389.932 So if at least three people. 160 00:14:57,649.932 --> 00:15:00,589.932 We're able to come, we'd can, we would go ahead and meet. 161 00:15:00,589.932 --> 00:15:01,669.932 We wouldn't cancel. 162 00:15:02,99.932 --> 00:15:03,719.932 And so we would do it that way. 163 00:15:03,969.932 --> 00:15:16,639.932 But normally it was, someplace like that where we could just talk and laugh and communicate and talk through things and get advice and, hear what other people were going on. 164 00:15:16,639.932 --> 00:15:18,259.932 It was funny because you could. 165 00:15:18,869.932 --> 00:15:30,579.932 Start to see each other's personality based on where they picked to go, places that I probably wouldn't have picked on my own, but I was glad that, they took me there. 166 00:15:30,579.932 --> 00:15:34,149.932 And so it was just those kind of things were fun. 167 00:15:34,369.932 --> 00:15:36,449.932 And we gave people opportunities too. 168 00:15:36,499.932 --> 00:15:39,499.932 If somebody would pick somewhere and somebody said, Hey, I gotta. 169 00:15:39,919.932 --> 00:15:46,669.932 Another meeting after this, can we make it closer to there so I don't have to do this, or I gotta pick kids up or things like that. 170 00:15:46,669.932 --> 00:15:48,949.932 So it was, pretty interactive. 171 00:15:49,99.932 --> 00:15:58,339.932 But and usually we, we would plan from four 30 to six and sometimes it'd go till six 30, sometimes it'd go till seven, and some of us might be there till eight. 172 00:15:58,549.932 --> 00:16:01,469.932 It just depended on, what was going on in life. 173 00:16:01,859.932 --> 00:16:17,829.932 The other thing I would say about, as we talked in the group at the summit, that, Janine is the glue in, in, in all of this because Janine would always meet with me 'cause she was my board chair at one time, and we'd go over things. 174 00:16:18,189.932 --> 00:16:22,269.932 But I never had to say, where are we meeting? 'cause it would always be Upland Brewery. 175 00:16:22,269.932 --> 00:16:30,859.932 I just never, that would never have to be a situation where are we meeting today, Janine? We still do that. 176 00:16:30,859.932 --> 00:16:40,264.932 We've done that, since I've been gone and it's just been, invaluable to have those type of conversations and mentors and friendships. 177 00:16:41,269.932 --> 00:16:43,429.932 I love that you guys have a quorum rule. 178 00:16:43,549.932 --> 00:16:44,899.932 That is amazing. 179 00:16:45,59.932 --> 00:16:46,259.932 That's a nice touch. 180 00:16:46,309.932 --> 00:16:51,589.932 I think one of the things that Scarlett has alluded to, which was. 181 00:16:52,134.932 --> 00:16:59,234.932 It, which is very important to all of us, is bringing up that next generation of women leaders. 182 00:16:59,654.932 --> 00:17:19,234.932 So do you guys have any recommendations for folks on how they might build their own kind of personal board of directors if they're early in their career? I think if you're early in your career, start paying attention. 183 00:17:19,684.932 --> 00:17:31,504.932 Again, maybe a mentor figure and see if you can identify a mentor that's going to push you, but also pay attention to those around you that might be in a similar situation. 184 00:17:31,864.932 --> 00:17:43,174.932 In those meetings, you can always tell who's asking the right questions, even if you don't know the answers, but maybe they ask with a little bit of bravery or, they're bringing interesting perspectives to a conversation. 185 00:17:43,534.932 --> 00:17:46,54.932 I think those are the people that you want. 186 00:17:46,549.932 --> 00:18:06,619.932 To have on your side and in your corner, and like Jennifer alluded to, do they have a great energy? You're gonna need that, particularly when you're early in your career, you're going to need somebody that's going to support you and say, yeah, today was a terrible day, we can figure this out and be in your corner as you figure that out. 187 00:18:11,679.932 --> 00:18:16,729.932 I also think for those that are later in their careers, I put myself in that bucket. 188 00:18:16,729.932 --> 00:18:18,199.932 Now same thing. 189 00:18:18,199.932 --> 00:18:20,479.932 Pay attention to who's asking good questions. 190 00:18:20,749.932 --> 00:18:21,134.932 Who is. 191 00:18:21,874.932 --> 00:18:36,694.932 The one taking notes and quiet, maybe quietly observing, but you can tell by the one question that they ask that there's the wheels are turning and it's in the right direction, and maybe a little bit of clarity can offer that person new opportunities and new understanding. 192 00:18:38,674.932 --> 00:18:46,954.932 I think the other thing is that when you're looking for people you don't want it, you want your group to be pretty diverse. 193 00:18:46,984.932 --> 00:18:52,834.932 You don't want it to be just people that are gonna continue to pump you up 'cause that's okay. 194 00:18:53,194.932 --> 00:18:55,504.932 But you need people that are gonna say. 195 00:18:56,329.932 --> 00:18:58,939.932 You know what? You're having a really bad day today. 196 00:18:59,239.932 --> 00:19:00,679.932 Get your act together. 197 00:19:00,709.932 --> 00:19:03,134.932 Here's what you know you probably need to do. 198 00:19:03,524.932 --> 00:19:08,194.932 And you need to have, disagreement sometimes because that makes all of us better. 199 00:19:08,604.932 --> 00:19:19,344.932 So you're looking for that kind of people and you want that group to be diverse and e and even in our group, the diversity came from not all of us. 200 00:19:19,899.932 --> 00:19:37,39.932 Had been in that supportive housing sector, we all were coming from different, we had people that were coming from corporate positions, other people from, some social services, but just a, just a wide variety of where everybody was coming from. 201 00:19:37,129.932 --> 00:19:38,329.932 And that's what you want. 202 00:19:38,329.932 --> 00:19:40,249.932 'cause you want those different opinions. 203 00:19:40,249.932 --> 00:19:41,209.932 You want those different. 204 00:19:42,574.932 --> 00:19:44,964.932 Views of things that are going on. 205 00:19:45,354.932 --> 00:19:48,384.932 And don't be afraid to ask somebody. 206 00:19:48,804.932 --> 00:19:54,174.932 People are gonna be honored that you ask them to be part of your personal board of directors. 207 00:19:54,174.932 --> 00:19:58,614.932 Look at that and just think, who can make me more well-rounded, in what I do. 208 00:20:01,494.932 --> 00:20:12,104.932 Yeah, I think just to piggyback off of Jennifer, I think not being afraid to be an advocate for the kind of spaces that you wanna be in and to seek out people. 209 00:20:12,104.932 --> 00:20:14,564.932 And if you're early in your career. 210 00:20:14,924.932 --> 00:20:26,264.932 I think you have a lot of room, whether you feel that or not, to ask people to go get coffee, to express to them that you find what they're doing really interesting and you wanna learn more about it. 211 00:20:26,474.932 --> 00:20:27,139.932 I think you have. 212 00:20:27,914.932 --> 00:20:30,174.932 You have the freedom to do that. 213 00:20:30,174.932 --> 00:20:33,144.932 And the worst that people could say is no, or I don't have time. 214 00:20:33,414.932 --> 00:20:38,14.932 And you can take that as not personal and take and move on to the next person. 215 00:20:38,264.932 --> 00:20:42,674.932 But I think you're gonna find that enough people are really willing to be a part of that. 216 00:20:42,914.932 --> 00:20:48,464.932 As I said, that's something that I want right now is to be part of a group of other young women who are. 217 00:20:49,64.932 --> 00:21:09,664.932 I guess I'm not part of the young part anymore, but I'd be a part of women who are coming up in, in these spaces and be talking about how the next step of affordable housing, the next step of housing in general, the next step of economic development in our city and state goes and so yeah, I would have those conversations. 218 00:21:11,119.932 --> 00:21:26,329.932 I, I think the other thing that I really appreciated about this group is also that when you make these connections, they could also lead to other career points in your job because people start to know, what you're interested in. 219 00:21:26,569.932 --> 00:21:29,824.932 If they're not interested, they might connect somebody who's better. 220 00:21:30,434.932 --> 00:21:39,584.932 But also the other thing that I've really seen is that what happens is these same folks are advocating for you in spaces where you're not. 221 00:21:39,914.932 --> 00:21:58,44.932 I remember a particular example where somebody that Danny was talking to had a not so nice analysis of, the critique that Scarlett gave from the mayor's office, and Danny put that guy right in check and he, she was like, excuse me. 222 00:21:58,104.932 --> 00:22:00,264.932 You would've not said that about a man. 223 00:22:00,444.932 --> 00:22:07,114.932 You only said that about a woman, so I'm gonna need you to change the way that you had that, and Scarlett wasn't there. 224 00:22:07,319.932 --> 00:22:20,129.932 She didn't know about it, but, or she knew about it later, but the whole purpose is that then you, people know more who you are and they're advocating for you in spaces where you're not. 225 00:22:21,359.932 --> 00:22:22,914.932 So yeah I think that's great too. 226 00:22:22,914.932 --> 00:22:25,104.932 And I'm gonna do another Danny example. 227 00:22:25,434.932 --> 00:22:28,789.932 Just having that relationship with her and. 228 00:22:29,559.932 --> 00:22:45,349.932 Having situations that I've been in before where we had a situation not earlier this year where she had a client that and she had put me down as a reference and I talked to this client and I explained to them, who they were and what they do. 229 00:22:45,679.932 --> 00:22:51,929.932 But I also explained, if that's not what you're looking for, you need to be able to tell her, don't keep this. 230 00:22:52,679.932 --> 00:22:56,429.932 Stringing her on and saying things like this, like that. 231 00:22:56,819.932 --> 00:23:05,539.932 And so I think when you know a person you know what to say in those situations so that you know that person doesn't get led. 232 00:23:05,914.932 --> 00:23:10,884.932 Astray or just, go down a path that, they don't need to go down. 233 00:23:10,884.932 --> 00:23:14,514.932 And so as soon as I got off the phone, I called Danny and I said, here's what I said. 234 00:23:14,904.932 --> 00:23:26,224.932 And and she was like, I was thinking the same thing, so I'm so glad you said it, but sometimes you can't say that to a prospective client, but as a person, that I'm a room reference. 235 00:23:26,224.932 --> 00:23:28,149.932 I said it nicely, but I also was saying. 236 00:23:29,404.932 --> 00:23:32,404.932 I felt like I was giving her a way out if she wanted one. 237 00:23:32,734.932 --> 00:23:37,804.932 So I think, if things like that it's beneficial to have those type of people in your corner. 238 00:23:39,34.932 --> 00:23:39,574.932 Nice. 239 00:23:40,654.932 --> 00:23:41,254.932 Okay. 240 00:23:41,254.932 --> 00:23:48,664.932 As we approach the end of our topics, I wanna give each one of you a chance to maybe close with a closing thought. 241 00:23:51,379.932 --> 00:23:53,329.932 And I'll start with Jennifer on this one. 242 00:23:53,329.932 --> 00:23:55,789.932 'cause I don't think she's gone first yet, oh, wow. 243 00:23:55,789.932 --> 00:23:56,239.932 Thank you. 244 00:23:56,549.932 --> 00:24:05,339.932 Again, I just wanna say I didn't know that I had a personal board of directors until, we put that name to it, so it's a good thing. 245 00:24:05,699.932 --> 00:24:09,539.932 But I also think the other thing for me has been. 246 00:24:10,499.932 --> 00:24:19,739.932 As I was getting close to ending my career, was being there for people that are up and coming. 247 00:24:20,129.932 --> 00:24:24,599.932 As Janine knows, I'm not a let's have coffee, let you know. 248 00:24:24,599.932 --> 00:24:29,639.932 I'm not that kind of person, but I made myself available. 249 00:24:29,954.932 --> 00:24:34,724.932 To people, especially to women that were, that wanted to know about this industry. 250 00:24:35,34.932 --> 00:24:36,414.932 That had questions. 251 00:24:36,774.932 --> 00:24:42,414.932 I just made myself available and it made me better too, to have those conversations. 252 00:24:42,414.932 --> 00:24:48,644.932 'cause you're talking about an industry, I'm talking about an industry that I had been in for, 30 years of my life. 253 00:24:48,644.932 --> 00:24:50,904.932 So it's, this is an industry I love. 254 00:24:51,234.932 --> 00:24:54,894.932 So when you hear yourself talking about it, you go, okay, this is why. 255 00:24:55,719.932 --> 00:24:58,89.932 I do this, so this is why I did this. 256 00:24:58,659.932 --> 00:25:01,419.932 And so I think that helped. 257 00:25:01,419.932 --> 00:25:08,659.932 And then being able to put them on a path to create their, personal board of directors. 258 00:25:08,659.932 --> 00:25:19,629.932 I think that's where I've got the most satisfaction is in that way of, having my own, but being able to put other people on that path and just being there. 259 00:25:20,619.932 --> 00:25:27,299.932 To, ask answer questions and see what they have on their mind and and just making yourself available. 260 00:25:32,219.932 --> 00:25:32,639.932 All right. 261 00:25:32,999.932 --> 00:25:37,739.932 Danny Scarlett, which one of you wants to go next? I can jump in. 262 00:25:37,839.932 --> 00:25:38,559.932 I think. 263 00:25:39,444.932 --> 00:25:45,384.932 What it can sound that like we're talking about here is mentorship and that's a piece of it. 264 00:25:45,384.932 --> 00:25:57,334.932 But I guess to distinguish personal board of directors, I think there's a lot of value in having a group and a structure to it that creates accountability and creates community. 265 00:25:57,844.932 --> 00:26:02,574.932 And I think that is something distinct that is worth. 266 00:26:03,519.932 --> 00:26:23,119.932 Creating for yourself or trying to be a part of? Because I think so much of this standing up for each other holding people accountable sharing ideas and getting feedback is created in a group structure at least for a few people and over time and over commitment to that. 267 00:26:23,174.932 --> 00:26:25,334.932 Yes, seek out one-on-one mentorships. 268 00:26:25,334.932 --> 00:26:31,969.932 And I think those are valuable for other reasons, but I think this personal board of directors concept is really powerful for that accountability and community. 269 00:26:35,194.932 --> 00:26:42,79.932 And I'm recalling, when I first used the term personal board of directors, I read it in a business book. 270 00:26:42,129.932 --> 00:26:52,659.932 But something else I read in a business book, and I said this at the conference as well, was that you, I had read, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. 271 00:26:53,229.932 --> 00:26:55,449.932 And I was really looking to. 272 00:26:55,824.932 --> 00:27:02,334.932 Beef up those people I was investing my time with which sounds very self-serving. 273 00:27:02,334.932 --> 00:27:04,644.932 And to be clear, it certainly is. 274 00:27:04,824.932 --> 00:27:08,214.932 These have been transformative relationships in my life. 275 00:27:08,604.932 --> 00:27:30,794.932 All three of you have seen me through crazy Life chapters and career chapters and starting a business and staff, starting a family, and we've seen each other through a lot of life I feel that my life has made, has been made so much more rich by these relationships and the way that you both support and challenge me. 276 00:27:31,134.932 --> 00:27:33,504.932 So I'm just really grateful and would. 277 00:27:34,254.932 --> 00:27:36,774.932 Be happy to share my contact information. 278 00:27:36,774.932 --> 00:27:38,94.932 I hope it's in the show notes. 279 00:27:38,404.932 --> 00:27:44,874.932 So anybody that has questions about, forging their own personal board of directors, I'd be happy to help facilitate and make connections. 280 00:27:45,894.932 --> 00:27:46,554.932 I love that. 281 00:27:47,64.932 --> 00:28:02,614.932 I would say the other thing that I really got out of the board of directors, especially during critical career transitions, is that it creates a safe space where you can talk about things that you may not be able to talk to other people about yet. 282 00:28:03,134.932 --> 00:28:07,724.932 So it's very nice just to have people that are gonna give you feedback. 283 00:28:07,949.932 --> 00:28:16,509.932 That you may or may not wanna hear, because that's what really makes it work is having a group of people that are willing to say things to you that. 284 00:28:16,764.932 --> 00:28:20,124.932 It may not make you feel good, but they're gonna make you better. 285 00:28:20,374.932 --> 00:28:24,514.932 And every person here has been that to me as well. 286 00:28:24,514.932 --> 00:28:31,834.932 So I'm very thankful for the networks and the people and the women that stick together in Indiana. 287 00:28:32,134.932 --> 00:28:39,24.932 And as I watch the field grow I think we've heard from all of us that we're all willing to help. 288 00:28:39,729.932 --> 00:28:42,939.932 Other women grow in this field. 289 00:28:42,939.932 --> 00:28:52,899.932 And for myself, it's also women and people of color, people that don't usually have access to the same rooms and frames and opportunities. 290 00:28:53,169.932 --> 00:28:58,659.932 It's many of our goals to help open those doors for everybody else. 291 00:28:58,899.932 --> 00:29:05,919.932 So yes, please reach out to us and let us know how we can help you, and we really appreciate your time today. 292 00:29:07,299.932 --> 00:29:07,839.932 Thank you. 293 00:29:07,989.932 --> 00:29:08,619.932 Thank you. 294 00:29:11,769.932 --> 00:29:17,139.932 Thanks for being here with us on WAHNcast, the official podcast of the Women's Affordable Housing Network. 295 00:29:17,529.932 --> 00:29:25,749.932 Every guest, every story, every listen, helps us keep this space real rooted and resonant, and we're so glad you're a part of it. 296 00:29:26,169.932 --> 00:29:29,49.932 Big thanks to our guests for sharing their time and knowledge with us. 297 00:29:29,484.932 --> 00:29:37,254.932 To our sponsors for making this platform possible and to you for tuning in, sharing and helping us keep this conversation going. 298 00:29:37,944.932 --> 00:29:43,374.932 Be sure to follow rate and share WAHNcast wherever you listen and bring a friend next time We saved them a seat.
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