April 4, 2025 • 27 mins
You’re successful on paper—but inside, you’re stuck, scared, and silently settling.
In this episode, Gia sits down with divorce attorney and unapologetic truth-teller Renee Bauer to expose the lie behind “I’m fine” and the deep conditioning that keeps women playing small.
From the shame of divorce to the pressure to be the perfect mom, partner, and professional, Renee shares her personal story of breaking free from good girl expectations and rebuilding life on her own damn terms.
They dive into: - Why women stay stuck in relationships, careers, and lives that look good but feel hollow - How good girl conditioning fuels people-pleasing, perfectionism, and decision paralysis - Why “just fine” is the most dangerous place to be - What it really takes to choose yourself—even if it means doing it afraid
This episode is your wake-up call. Your permission slip. Your reminder that it’s never too late to shift—and you don’t owe anyone an explanation for wanting more.
Listen in and ask yourself: What are you done settling for?
Connect with Renee: www.familylawyerct.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Shift happens, sometimes by choice, sometimes by circumstance.
And when it does, you have two options. You can either cling
to the life you've outgrown or step into the version of
you that knows she's meant for more. I'm Gia Lacqua, trauma-informed
empowerment coach and founder of Radical Prioritization. Welcome
to What the Shift, the podcast for women who've outgrown the
(00:24):
life they've built and are ready to create one that finally fits.
Here, we get real about the shifts that change everything. Identity shifts,
career pivots, relationship resets, mindset breakthroughs, and
learning how to finally release what's holding you back. You
don't have to have it all figured out. Just be ready for what's next. It's
time to shift. If
(00:45):
you've ever felt like you're stuck in a life that no longer fits, you're
in the right place. I'm Gia Lacqua, and this is What The
Shift, where we get real about the shifts that change, challenge,
and empower. Today, I am thrilled to introduce you
to Renee Bauer. Renee is a divorce attorney, an
international speaker, and author. She hosts the annual
(01:07):
She Who Wins Summit, a live event created to inspire, motivate,
and challenge women to move forward bravely in their personal and
business lives. Her impact has been recognized by Success Magazine,
where she was nominated as a Woman of Influence and with awards such
as Litigator of the Year, Women-Owned Business of the Year, and
New Leaders in the Law. She's been featured in multiple media
(01:29):
outlets such as the International Business Times, Comment Central, AP
News, NBC, Fox, and iHeartRadio. Renee, so
Yeah, I'm really excited to chat with you today. So I've got a
lot of things we can talk about. So
tell us, I guess, you know, just so our listeners can get to know you and your background and
(01:51):
your story a little bit better. What led you to the work that you're doing?
Oh, it's never a direct line, right? I thought
I wanted to work in politics. And I look
at that now and I'm like, oh, my God, thank God I did not do
that. I would have been chewed up and spit out. But I thought I wanted to
work Um, as a lobbyist, I thought I wanted to go to DC. I
(02:11):
applied for grad school and I said, well, rather than get my
master's degree, I might as well go get my law degree and then I
can go to DC and I can just do more with it. And once I
was in law school, I did an externship, really liked
working with people directly. And when I got out, I said, let me, me
try private practice and see how I feel about
(02:31):
give it a year. And I never looked back. And when I
went from one firm to the next, I just naturally fell into family law
and divorce as the thing that was a really good fit for me because
it wasn't just research and it wasn't just writing legal
briefs. It was really helping people transition through some of the hardest times
of their life. And then when I went through my own divorce, it really, really
(02:52):
landed because I knew all of the emotions and all of the horror and the angst
and all that came with it. And I feel like that's so much more
of the work that I do than necessarily even the
legal part of it is just really helping people through a major plot
I love that. And so it's so amazing when you
(03:13):
can combine your professional expertise into your personal
Well, you know, what's funny is I never talked about anything
personal because I'm like, you don't do that as a lawyer. You're all
buttoned up. You go to court, you don't share that. And I
was actually on a friend's podcast. It was probably about five years ago
(03:33):
and I had never listened to podcasts or did anything with them. And
she's like, I'm starting this podcast. Come on. And she asked
me about my divorce and I had never spoken about it
publicly before. And I had to call my mother and be like, mom, you
might've come up, sorry. And I had people reach out to be
like, thank you for talking about it in that way. And then
I realized I'm doing a huge disservice to clients if
(03:56):
I'm actually not infusing my own personal story to
this and not making it so like black and white and
here's the process and here's what happens. And it changed everything about how I
A hundred percent. And I know that's a hard shift, for sure.
But the vulnerability and sharing your story is so impactful, right,
in the work that you do. So I think that's amazing. So in 2023, you
(04:19):
wrote a book called She Who Wins. And in the book,
you talk about good girl conditioning. Yeah.
And that fits in perfectly with the themes we talk about on this show and
how that can keep women stuck. So I would
love to just get from your perspective kind of what that means to you and
(04:41):
Yeah. It's so common that I have clients come into
my office and some of them are extremely high performers.
They're C-suite executives. They're entrepreneurs. They're
multi-passionate. And they have so much anxiety about
taking this leap because they're afraid about what are people going
to say? What are people going to think about them? What
(05:03):
are their, how are their kids going to feel? What is their, you know, they're
so worried about pleasing everyone else that they're not actually making
the decision for themselves. And it doesn't matter who you are.
It doesn't matter how much education you have or how much money you make. Those are
still the common concerns. As I started to think about
it from my own perspective, I was like, what were the reasons that I almost didn't do
(05:23):
what I needed to do? Well, my family, their opinions, what
friends were going to say, you have the fancy Boston wedding and now you're getting divorced
and like. it was my job to keep everyone else happy. And
it was, you know, I'm very much in a service business anyway, and my job is
to keep clients happy. And so that was where I came at
it from. And the minute I stopped doing that and started making decisions about
(05:44):
what do I want? What do I care what they're saying? That's their problem, not
mine. It really changed everything, not just relationship wise,
but every business decision I ever make is I
make sure that I'm making it from that place of, What's the right thing?
Do I really care what someone's going to say about me or
think about me? It's not my problem. And what is it
(06:05):
true to like my intuitive sense? And when
women start making decisions that way, I think we just, we glow up,
we shine. We just really step into the most
I think that is very relatable. I think our audience
can relate to what you just said about being stuck
in that cycle. I think what you said was it felt like it was my job to
(06:27):
keep everyone happy. And that resonates deeply with
me, you know, and recognizing that that's a
cycle we have to break. right, in order to branch out
and to have the life that we want. So, and I love you also talked
about tapping into your intuition, which I think we also lose touch with
and we lose connection with. So tell us a little bit, you know, what were some of the things
(06:47):
that you did? How do you break out of that mindset? How do we start to
I think it's really intentional because I think it's so
easy to fall back into that on any given day. I
mean, there's certainly things that will happen on
a day-to-day and I'm thinking, Am I worried about what
the perception is or the perspective? Am I
(07:09):
acting from that place or am I acting from a place of truth? So I'm constantly
doing that check-in with myself as to why I'm making the decision
that I'm making. My husband
is a huge supporter and knows me you know, probably better
than myself and calls me out on my own BS. Um, and is
able to also be that sounding board too. And
(07:30):
sometimes I'm just talking and he'll just be like, hold up, you know, and
like push back a little bit and challenge me, which is really welcome. Cause
because that challenge is usually the right thing to shift that mindset. I
don't think there's an easy answer. I don't think there's a, here's the
thing you do to overcome that. I think it's just awareness around
it. And then that constant check-in. Every time we
(07:51):
hit something prickly, it's like, okay, what do we do with that?
How do we respond to that? And that's when we stop and we think.
And I would like to say that I meditate. I
can, I don't do it often. I'm not
great at it because my mind is, which is, I know the whole point of
it. But I can do things in other ways. I go for a long walk. I
(08:12):
work out. Like those are the things that take me out of my head
and put me somewhere else in my body in a different way. And I have a
Yeah. And I think, you know, something you said was that check in
with yourself. So I agree with you. Awareness is the first step and just
being hyper aware of when we're doing it. But that check
in with yourself of asking, you know, whatever that question is for
(08:35):
you. Right? Am I acting in alignment with myself? Is
this an internal feeling or an external pull?
You know, that check-in, I think, can be very powerful once you have
that awareness to start discerning if you're acting from your authentic
self or not. So I think that's really powerful. And then the other thing you
talk about, which is something we also talk about on this show, is
(08:56):
the quote-unquote just fine mindset. And,
you know, as high achieving women, we've checked all the boxes, we're doing all the things, and
on the outside we are quote-unquote successful, right? But oftentimes on
the inside, we're left unfulfilled, feeling empty. self-neglect.
So now this, I mean, this is a multifaceted, right? So as women,
we can tell ourselves we're just fine when we actually are
(09:19):
struggling. We can tell ourselves we're fine in a relationship. And
I know you talk about that being a red flag. It could be a career where
we say it's fine. This is just the way it is. I know that
that's kind of a big question. From your perspective, tell us
a little bit about the just fine and why fine is not
It's an interesting, because I usually talk about it from the relationship perspective, but
(09:40):
I was just at dinner with a friend last night who was considering making a
job transition. And when we were sort of probing, she
was afraid to make the leap and started to probe why. And
the thing that was holding her back, she was like, well, my job right now is just fine.
And I was like, okay, then what does that mean? Are you fulfilled? Are
you, do you have joy in your job? I mean, listen, we all have those days, but
(10:01):
for the most part, are you finding happiness in
it? And the fact that she used those words just
fine to describe it. It was like, well, then that means it's not good enough. So
what's the next thing. And her, from her perspective, she
had fear that what if she took the job? It wasn't the right fit. What if
she couldn't do the job? What if she wasn't smart enough? What if
she didn't, the lawyer, what if she didn't bill enough? What if. You know, and
(10:24):
it's like when you start to justify your decisions or
inaction because something is just fine, like that's like the ultimate
wake up call of like, okay, just fine is not okay. And
now like, what's the next thing I can do? And it doesn't need to be huge.
It doesn't need to be walking away from a relationship or switching the job, but it could
be like, what's the next challenge? And for me, it's like, If I'm too
(10:45):
comfortable, I get bored. And I'm like, what's the next challenge I
can do? Like what, what to get myself excited again and
get like me, my energy going. Cause I, I thrive off of
like building stuff. And so it's just that it goes
to that check-in. It goes to like. that boredom, I
think. If you're just waking up
(11:05):
every day and you're just trudging along and you're like, okay,
day to day, next day, and it just feels like you're on a hamster wheel,
that's not good enough. That's the moment that you say, what can I
change? Because life's too short. And
especially as you get older and you look at it, you're like, oh my God, where
did those years go? I'm looking at, I think I'm planning
(11:26):
my 30 year high school reunion. I'm like, what the heck happened? I
feel like I'm still in high school. Right. Where did it go? Time is
a gift. And so I look at it, it's our job
to use it and to embrace it. And so what if
you fail? Who cares if it doesn't work out? And
I said to her, I'm like, who cares if you get fired? You'll figure out the next move.
(11:47):
But you made the move and it's just not, you're not answering me. It's just
I love that. And I think that's incredibly powerful. I
think a lot of it does come down to her own self-worth and her belief
in our capabilities, what we're capable of, what we're not capable of,
the stories we tell ourselves. But so many women,
and I know you know this, struggle with making those big decisions,
(12:10):
whether it is a relationship or a career, because of the fear
of the unknown, like your friend talked about, the what-if scenarios. So
how, I guess from your perspective, how do we navigate some
I think you do it afraid. I don't think that
anything worthwhile is going to be done in a comfortable way.
(12:31):
Like the thing that scares you the most and that,
like, that's the thing that you go for because it's exciting and
equally terrifying because you could fall on your face or
you could soar. If you don't go for it, then what? You live in
just wondering, like, I wonder what would have happened if had
I done it or had I gone for it? And you do it, you
(12:52):
do it afraid. So I started public speaking, motivational speaking.
I'm terrified of like, Even though like I speak in
a courtroom, it's so different than being on stage. And
I was like, I remember the first time I did it, I was shaking. And
to this day, I still get really nervous. And like when someone
asks me to speak, I'm like, yes. And then I'm like, oh
(13:13):
God, here we go again. The anxiety leading up to it. And I'm
like, but it's also exciting. Cause I'm like, I want to push to see
like how far can I push myself to be uncomfortable, to
get better, to challenge myself. I'm like, what's the worst that happens? I
suck? Okay. They won't invite me back. I'm like, I'll
live, you know, but it's like that adrenaline kind of
(13:33):
like I did something that I wasn't sure I was going to do well
and I did it anyway. And it's just getting, and I think women
are so conditioned to not do things that
are risky. And so it's like reconditioning that and
being like taking the risk every single time. And
that's okay. And not having the answer or knowing what it looks like
(13:55):
Yeah, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, right? Finding a way to
sit with the discomfort and push through it and challenge yourself, I think is really
important. And, you know, you sort of alluded to that midlife,
I don't call it a crisis, I call it more of an awakening, where you
realize that, okay, you know, I'm about halfway through,
right, give or take, and is this it? You
(14:18):
know, and then questioning, like, what am I settling for?
And I feel like as women, as high achieving women, we often are, like
you said, so busy making everyone else happy, keeping all
the balls in the air, achieving all the goals. But, you
know, at some point a lot of us stop and wonder, well, is this it?
Is this, am I fulfilled? And then what's next for
(14:38):
me? And so I think it really is like this awakening moment that
we have, many of us, and sort of look around and say, okay,
well, what's next for me? But that's where I think the fear comes
It's funny because I have a son who, uh, is 19. He's
off his freshman year in college. And when I say that to people, the
immediate response I get, most of them have been, how are
(15:00):
you doing? And I have seen friends who have sent
their kids off and the, the moms, um,
really feel lost and they don't know what's next. And they're like,
okay, now what? And I was like, why is it such a negative,
um, turning point in your life when you launched
your kid into the world. I'm like, now all
(15:22):
of it was good stuff, right? I'm like, but now some good stuff can happen. I'm
like, we did our jobs. Now it's exciting to
see we can take back that time that we so
lovingly and freely gave to our children, but now it's ours
again. And what can we do with that? And how do we take care of ourselves and
nurture ourselves and use that to do whatever it is you want
(15:42):
to do, write the book or run the marathon or travel by
yourself, whatever it is, you have this freedom to do that now.
And I think that, I think that that's a pretty cool place to be
in a time in your life to be, if we embrace it and not just
let it slip by. and wonder and like attach
ourselves to the past and now like live our
(16:04):
And I think that is a big shift. I think a lot of it comes down to
identity too, right? I know for me personally, when I shifted out of
the corporate world five years ago and started my own business, there was a
lot of it, my identity was very, very tied
to my work, my profession, my title, you know, the career.
And so that there was a lot of work I had to do to sort of you
(16:25):
know, get out of that cycle and sort of reinvent myself in
some way. So I think it's a great point. And how are you doing that
all along? So for those of us who don't have kids who are off in college, you
know, we're still in the thick of it, raising, you know, how do you create that space
for yourself? How do you create the time to figure out who you are and what you
want? You know, so when that moment comes, you're not thinking to yourself, okay,
(16:46):
well, who am I and what does my life look like now? So I
And it's not always easy because, you know, your tools and kids activities and
like, it has to be, you're, you're putting the time in your calendar you're
creating the date for yourself. Yeah. You know, and it might
not be every week. Like you take it when you can get it because reality
(17:08):
Yes, for sure. For sure. I love that. So I know you specialize
in family law and divorce. Tell us some of the things that
you see women in this phase kind of
I think it's the it's that fear of being alone.
That's a big one of The some people would choose
to stay with the partner that's maybe there's infidelity or
(17:31):
it's just toxic or it's not fulfilling or there's no connection than
to be alone. And I always say to people, I'm like, well, aren't you
alone anyway in that marriage? So what difference does
it make? And when you stay in that, there's no possibility for
anything else to come in. And I had one client
who was so afraid of being alone that she would have stayed
(17:53):
and her relationship was not a good one. And she
had, throughout the entire process, had her husband changed his mind, she
would have said, yes, I'll stay married. And they got divorced and about
a year later she reached out to me and she said, I have never been
happier. And I didn't even know how unhappy my relationship was
until I was forced into a new existence. And
(18:14):
it's just having trust and faith that it all
works out. And I think clients hate when I say that to them. I'm like, it's going to
be fine and you will be fine. But how do you know? Because I
know like, as long as you wake up every day, you put one foot in
front of your other, you will start to create. your new normal. And
yes, it's hard. You're going to have those days, you're going to have those moments where
you feel alone. If there's a New Year's Eve that you're by yourself
(18:37):
and you cry and so what? And then the next day you get
up and you don't know what that day can bring. So it's
It's not allowing that feeling of you having to
have someone sitting next to you in order to move forward and you can have
a fulfilled life whether you have someone in your life or
you don't. And I think money is always a big deal too where people are
(18:58):
worried about having enough money and it's rare
that someone comes back and says, I didn't figure it out.
Cause when you're forced to figure it out, like we're really strong and
we're taskmasters and we make magic happen. And
women are able to do that, whether it's redefining who they
are in their career, going back to work. elevating what they were
(19:22):
Yeah. And I think, you know, we tend to focus on the negatives
of that, right? You know, rather than look at the opportunity within
To create, like you said, to create something new, to create your own thing, to
start fresh that next chapter. But it's very, I think our,
you know, our brains are wired to keep us safe. So we're looking at
all the negatives first and we tend to focus on that. And
(19:45):
then a lot of times I know having kids can make that
situation more difficult as well. What do you say to the women
who are stuck in that situation where they feel like, oh, I have to stay for
So I love that you asked me this because every time someone starts
going down that conversation, man and woman, it doesn't matter
who they are and they start saying they're worried about the kids and maybe
(20:06):
now is not the right time. I ask them if their daughter was in
the same marriage that they're in right now,
what would they tell them? And every single person will say, I
would tell her to leave. I'm like, well, why is
it good enough for not good? You know, not good enough for her, but
it's good enough for you. That's your answer. And if you stay,
(20:27):
your daughter will end up in that same relationship, most
likely because of the cycle and because of what she has
seen, unless she breaks that herself and we can't, we,
who knows. So. Those are the kids are going to be fine. Kids
are going to model their future and their relationships after what they
see. And sometimes having at least one parent who
(20:48):
is in a healthy relationship or has a healthy identity is
the anchor that they need in order to make those decisions for
themselves in the future. And when kids stay embroiled in that
conflict, it actually causes more damage than having parents separate.
Yeah, it's a great point. And I think, you know, the modeling, like you
said, the breaking of cycles, because if you think about the good
(21:09):
girl conditioning, how does that play into
There is, it's, it's, I think it's plays, it's everything, right?
It's like, it is the reason why so many women hesitate.
It's the reason why I will have someone come to me after they've
been married 30 years and they're like, well, the kids are, Finally out
(21:32):
of the house and now I can get divorced and I'm like, you
just gave up so much of your life. Why? And it
was because the right thing to do was to keep
my family happy, to keep my kid. And it's, it's
heartbreaking because it's like there was so much potential for
happiness, but they stayed 20 years too long. Um, and
I think that a lot of women make that decision because they
(21:55):
don't want to be the disruptor. They don't want to be the first one
in their family who's divorced. Um, then you hear that a lot and
they'll hear their parents stay together for 50, 60 years. And
therefore it's their obligation. It's their duty to do the same thing.
And that's being the good girl. That's being the people pleaser. And until
we decide to break that cycle and that role and straight
(22:17):
up say to those people who we love, who are well-intentioned, who
want the best for us. I'm sorry you feel that way, but
it's my life and my decision, and you get a little bit confrontational with
them, you're gonna continue to make those decisions to
keep them happy, knowing that it's not gonna be easy,
and you're gonna ruffle some feathers, and you do it anyway, because
(22:39):
Yeah, and what I hear you saying is also you're making the conscious decision
to prioritize yourself. Yeah. Right, to prioritize your happiness,
your future. which again is really
hard to do, and especially alone. So
You know what's great about that, and you'll
(23:00):
hear someone say, a lot of times you'll hear a mom say, they're
missing half the time with their kids. And I'll say, but think about
the possibility and potential of what relationship you can have with
your kids. One of the things that when I got divorced, my son and I
always planned a mom and son trip. It was something that would have
probably never happened had we been a married intact family. But
(23:20):
I was really intentional, Beau. And I had never traveled by myself. I'm
like, we're going to go travel to Colorado, rent the car, go to the
dude ranch. We're going to do all of these trips. And some of his greatest
memories, he talks about that time. And that
was time that it was just the two of us. And that's
so much more meaningful than whether he went every
(23:41):
other weekend to a parent. Like he doesn't talk about that as the thing. It's
the memories that he remembers are these like moments that we create. And
sometimes we don't do that if you're, unless you're, I mean
I hate to say unless you're divorced, but it's the divorce that forces you to
look at your relationship a little bit different and not take for granted that
your kids are always there. So creating those memories in
(24:02):
Yeah, it's the catalyst, right? And then you think about how can I be more
intentional in spending that time together? I love that. That's a
beautiful story. So for our listeners, if there's someone listening today, Renee,
who is feeling stuck, who's feeling overwhelmed, who's
feeling afraid to take that next step, what's
I would say make a list of what the thing is that you're looking
(24:25):
for. And it could be Happiness fulfillment
connection and usually the type of high-level things on that list
and then on the other side of that piece of paper What's the thing holding you
back? and if it says fear and overwhelm and anxiety
and that's not good enough reason and just Focus on what
you actually want and make the decision based on that and sometimes
(24:46):
when you can just see it on paper Mm-hmm. It reminds yourself
of like this is why I'm not settling for good enough or just
fine anymore Like the things I want are worthy, but write
it down And look at it every single day, because
you get maybe a little bit more brave, or maybe you take a little bit of
a small step towards that, but at least it keeps you
(25:09):
Yeah, and I think what you said is really important too, in addition to writing it
down, is knowing that you deserve it. Knowing that you're worth having
And don't apologize for it. It's okay to say, I want
to be happy or to say, I want financial independence.
That's not selfish. Like you can say all of those things and
(25:31):
it's, it's fine. I think that's women don't talk about that stuff either. Right.
Well, they don't talk about money and how much we're earning and,
Like, why? Why are we not talking about that stuff? And why can
we not say, I want this from my life? Like, just getting really
comfortable of talking about all the things that we see the men talking about.
You know, they talk about, they don't apologize for having wishes
(25:52):
and desires. So I think we should stop apologizing for
it too. It's not a dirty secret. We get to say what we want in
Absolutely. Which goes back to that good girl conditioning, right?
What we believe we can and should talk about, I think it's
really important. Yes. Absolutely. So Renee, where can
(26:13):
So my law firm can be found at FamilyLawyerCT.com. If
anyone is listening and is at that crossroads of
a divorce or not, I do have a free guide there
that gets you to start thinking about the first steps. My
practice is in Connecticut, but the guide is really, anyone can use
(26:36):
Perfect. I want to thank you so much for being here, for sharing your story, your
And of course, you can visit my website at gialacqua.com, reach out on Instagram at
gialacqua. I want to thank you for joining us today. And remember, shift
happens. So if you're feeling called to something greater, trust
the pull. We'll see you next time on What the Shift. All
(26:58):
right, Shifter, that's a wrap on today's episode of What The Shift. But
here's the thing. Awareness is just the first step. The
real shift happens when you decide to do something with it. So before
you go back to business as usual, ask yourself, what is
one thing you are done carrying? What's one shift you're
ready to make? And if this episode hit home, don't keep it to yourself. Hit
(27:19):
subscribe, leave a review, and send it to a woman who needs to hear this because
we shift together. Remember, you don't have to have it all figured out.
You just have to take the next step. And I'll be right here next week, ready
to shift with you. This is What the Shift, and we are just
Shift happens, sometimes by choice, sometimes by circumstance.
And when it does, you have two options. You can either cling
to the life you've outgrown or step into the version of
you that knows she's meant for more. I'm Gia Lacqua, trauma-informed
empowerment coach and founder of Radical Prioritization. Welcome
to What the Shift, the podcast for women who've outgrown the
(00:24):
life they've built and are ready to create one that finally fits.
Here, we get real about the shifts that change everything. Identity shifts,
career pivots, relationship resets, mindset breakthroughs, and
learning how to finally release what's holding you back. You
don't have to have it all figured out. Just be ready for what's next. It's
time to shift. If
(00:45):
you've ever felt like you're stuck in a life that no longer fits, you're
in the right place. I'm Gia Lacqua, and this is What The
Shift, where we get real about the shifts that change, challenge,
and empower. Today, I am thrilled to introduce you
to Renee Bauer. Renee is a divorce attorney, an
international speaker, and author. She hosts the annual
(01:07):
She Who Wins Summit, a live event created to inspire, motivate,
and challenge women to move forward bravely in their personal and
business lives. Her impact has been recognized by Success Magazine,
where she was nominated as a Woman of Influence and with awards such
as Litigator of the Year, Women-Owned Business of the Year, and
New Leaders in the Law. She's been featured in multiple media
(01:29):
outlets such as the International Business Times, Comment Central, AP
News, NBC, Fox, and iHeartRadio. Renee, so
Yeah, I'm really excited to chat with you today. So I've got a
lot of things we can talk about. So
tell us, I guess, you know, just so our listeners can get to know you and your background and
(01:51):
your story a little bit better. What led you to the work that you're doing?
Oh, it's never a direct line, right? I thought
I wanted to work in politics. And I look
at that now and I'm like, oh, my God, thank God I did not do
that. I would have been chewed up and spit out. But I thought I wanted to
work Um, as a lobbyist, I thought I wanted to go to DC. I
(02:11):
applied for grad school and I said, well, rather than get my
master's degree, I might as well go get my law degree and then I
can go to DC and I can just do more with it. And once I
was in law school, I did an externship, really liked
working with people directly. And when I got out, I said, let me, me
try private practice and see how I feel about
(02:31):
give it a year. And I never looked back. And when I
went from one firm to the next, I just naturally fell into family law
and divorce as the thing that was a really good fit for me because
it wasn't just research and it wasn't just writing legal
briefs. It was really helping people transition through some of the hardest times
of their life. And then when I went through my own divorce, it really, really
(02:52):
landed because I knew all of the emotions and all of the horror and the angst
and all that came with it. And I feel like that's so much more
of the work that I do than necessarily even the
legal part of it is just really helping people through a major plot
I love that. And so it's so amazing when you
(03:13):
can combine your professional expertise into your personal
Well, you know, what's funny is I never talked about anything
personal because I'm like, you don't do that as a lawyer. You're all
buttoned up. You go to court, you don't share that. And I
was actually on a friend's podcast. It was probably about five years ago
(03:33):
and I had never listened to podcasts or did anything with them. And
she's like, I'm starting this podcast. Come on. And she asked
me about my divorce and I had never spoken about it
publicly before. And I had to call my mother and be like, mom, you
might've come up, sorry. And I had people reach out to be
like, thank you for talking about it in that way. And then
I realized I'm doing a huge disservice to clients if
(03:56):
I'm actually not infusing my own personal story to
this and not making it so like black and white and
here's the process and here's what happens. And it changed everything about how I
A hundred percent. And I know that's a hard shift, for sure.
But the vulnerability and sharing your story is so impactful, right,
in the work that you do. So I think that's amazing. So in 2023, you
(04:19):
wrote a book called She Who Wins. And in the book,
you talk about good girl conditioning. Yeah.
And that fits in perfectly with the themes we talk about on this show and
how that can keep women stuck. So I would
love to just get from your perspective kind of what that means to you and
(04:41):
Yeah. It's so common that I have clients come into
my office and some of them are extremely high performers.
They're C-suite executives. They're entrepreneurs. They're
multi-passionate. And they have so much anxiety about
taking this leap because they're afraid about what are people going
to say? What are people going to think about them? What
(05:03):
are their, how are their kids going to feel? What is their, you know, they're
so worried about pleasing everyone else that they're not actually making
the decision for themselves. And it doesn't matter who you are.
It doesn't matter how much education you have or how much money you make. Those are
still the common concerns. As I started to think about
it from my own perspective, I was like, what were the reasons that I almost didn't do
(05:23):
what I needed to do? Well, my family, their opinions, what
friends were going to say, you have the fancy Boston wedding and now you're getting divorced
and like. it was my job to keep everyone else happy. And
it was, you know, I'm very much in a service business anyway, and my job is
to keep clients happy. And so that was where I came at
it from. And the minute I stopped doing that and started making decisions about
(05:44):
what do I want? What do I care what they're saying? That's their problem, not
mine. It really changed everything, not just relationship wise,
but every business decision I ever make is I
make sure that I'm making it from that place of, What's the right thing?
Do I really care what someone's going to say about me or
think about me? It's not my problem. And what is it
(06:05):
true to like my intuitive sense? And when
women start making decisions that way, I think we just, we glow up,
we shine. We just really step into the most
I think that is very relatable. I think our audience
can relate to what you just said about being stuck
in that cycle. I think what you said was it felt like it was my job to
(06:27):
keep everyone happy. And that resonates deeply with
me, you know, and recognizing that that's a
cycle we have to break. right, in order to branch out
and to have the life that we want. So, and I love you also talked
about tapping into your intuition, which I think we also lose touch with
and we lose connection with. So tell us a little bit, you know, what were some of the things
(06:47):
that you did? How do you break out of that mindset? How do we start to
I think it's really intentional because I think it's so
easy to fall back into that on any given day. I
mean, there's certainly things that will happen on
a day-to-day and I'm thinking, Am I worried about what
the perception is or the perspective? Am I
(07:09):
acting from that place or am I acting from a place of truth? So I'm constantly
doing that check-in with myself as to why I'm making the decision
that I'm making. My husband
is a huge supporter and knows me you know, probably better
than myself and calls me out on my own BS. Um, and is
able to also be that sounding board too. And
(07:30):
sometimes I'm just talking and he'll just be like, hold up, you know, and
like push back a little bit and challenge me, which is really welcome. Cause
because that challenge is usually the right thing to shift that mindset. I
don't think there's an easy answer. I don't think there's a, here's the
thing you do to overcome that. I think it's just awareness around
it. And then that constant check-in. Every time we
(07:51):
hit something prickly, it's like, okay, what do we do with that?
How do we respond to that? And that's when we stop and we think.
And I would like to say that I meditate. I
can, I don't do it often. I'm not
great at it because my mind is, which is, I know the whole point of
it. But I can do things in other ways. I go for a long walk. I
(08:12):
work out. Like those are the things that take me out of my head
and put me somewhere else in my body in a different way. And I have a
Yeah. And I think, you know, something you said was that check in
with yourself. So I agree with you. Awareness is the first step and just
being hyper aware of when we're doing it. But that check
in with yourself of asking, you know, whatever that question is for
(08:35):
you. Right? Am I acting in alignment with myself? Is
this an internal feeling or an external pull?
You know, that check-in, I think, can be very powerful once you have
that awareness to start discerning if you're acting from your authentic
self or not. So I think that's really powerful. And then the other thing you
talk about, which is something we also talk about on this show, is
(08:56):
the quote-unquote just fine mindset. And,
you know, as high achieving women, we've checked all the boxes, we're doing all the things, and
on the outside we are quote-unquote successful, right? But oftentimes on
the inside, we're left unfulfilled, feeling empty. self-neglect.
So now this, I mean, this is a multifaceted, right? So as women,
we can tell ourselves we're just fine when we actually are
(09:19):
struggling. We can tell ourselves we're fine in a relationship. And
I know you talk about that being a red flag. It could be a career where
we say it's fine. This is just the way it is. I know that
that's kind of a big question. From your perspective, tell us
a little bit about the just fine and why fine is not
It's an interesting, because I usually talk about it from the relationship perspective, but
(09:40):
I was just at dinner with a friend last night who was considering making a
job transition. And when we were sort of probing, she
was afraid to make the leap and started to probe why. And
the thing that was holding her back, she was like, well, my job right now is just fine.
And I was like, okay, then what does that mean? Are you fulfilled? Are
you, do you have joy in your job? I mean, listen, we all have those days, but
(10:01):
for the most part, are you finding happiness in
it? And the fact that she used those words just
fine to describe it. It was like, well, then that means it's not good enough. So
what's the next thing. And her, from her perspective, she
had fear that what if she took the job? It wasn't the right fit. What if
she couldn't do the job? What if she wasn't smart enough? What if
she didn't, the lawyer, what if she didn't bill enough? What if. You know, and
(10:24):
it's like when you start to justify your decisions or
inaction because something is just fine, like that's like the ultimate
wake up call of like, okay, just fine is not okay. And
now like, what's the next thing I can do? And it doesn't need to be huge.
It doesn't need to be walking away from a relationship or switching the job, but it could
be like, what's the next challenge? And for me, it's like, If I'm too
(10:45):
comfortable, I get bored. And I'm like, what's the next challenge I
can do? Like what, what to get myself excited again and
get like me, my energy going. Cause I, I thrive off of
like building stuff. And so it's just that it goes
to that check-in. It goes to like. that boredom, I
think. If you're just waking up
(11:05):
every day and you're just trudging along and you're like, okay,
day to day, next day, and it just feels like you're on a hamster wheel,
that's not good enough. That's the moment that you say, what can I
change? Because life's too short. And
especially as you get older and you look at it, you're like, oh my God, where
did those years go? I'm looking at, I think I'm planning
(11:26):
my 30 year high school reunion. I'm like, what the heck happened? I
feel like I'm still in high school. Right. Where did it go? Time is
a gift. And so I look at it, it's our job
to use it and to embrace it. And so what if
you fail? Who cares if it doesn't work out? And
I said to her, I'm like, who cares if you get fired? You'll figure out the next move.
(11:47):
But you made the move and it's just not, you're not answering me. It's just
I love that. And I think that's incredibly powerful. I
think a lot of it does come down to her own self-worth and her belief
in our capabilities, what we're capable of, what we're not capable of,
the stories we tell ourselves. But so many women,
and I know you know this, struggle with making those big decisions,
(12:10):
whether it is a relationship or a career, because of the fear
of the unknown, like your friend talked about, the what-if scenarios. So
how, I guess from your perspective, how do we navigate some
I think you do it afraid. I don't think that
anything worthwhile is going to be done in a comfortable way.
(12:31):
Like the thing that scares you the most and that,
like, that's the thing that you go for because it's exciting and
equally terrifying because you could fall on your face or
you could soar. If you don't go for it, then what? You live in
just wondering, like, I wonder what would have happened if had
I done it or had I gone for it? And you do it, you
(12:52):
do it afraid. So I started public speaking, motivational speaking.
I'm terrified of like, Even though like I speak in
a courtroom, it's so different than being on stage. And
I was like, I remember the first time I did it, I was shaking. And
to this day, I still get really nervous. And like when someone
asks me to speak, I'm like, yes. And then I'm like, oh
(13:13):
God, here we go again. The anxiety leading up to it. And I'm
like, but it's also exciting. Cause I'm like, I want to push to see
like how far can I push myself to be uncomfortable, to
get better, to challenge myself. I'm like, what's the worst that happens? I
suck? Okay. They won't invite me back. I'm like, I'll
live, you know, but it's like that adrenaline kind of
(13:33):
like I did something that I wasn't sure I was going to do well
and I did it anyway. And it's just getting, and I think women
are so conditioned to not do things that
are risky. And so it's like reconditioning that and
being like taking the risk every single time. And
that's okay. And not having the answer or knowing what it looks like
(13:55):
Yeah, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, right? Finding a way to
sit with the discomfort and push through it and challenge yourself, I think is really
important. And, you know, you sort of alluded to that midlife,
I don't call it a crisis, I call it more of an awakening, where you
realize that, okay, you know, I'm about halfway through,
right, give or take, and is this it? You
(14:18):
know, and then questioning, like, what am I settling for?
And I feel like as women, as high achieving women, we often are, like
you said, so busy making everyone else happy, keeping all
the balls in the air, achieving all the goals. But, you
know, at some point a lot of us stop and wonder, well, is this it?
Is this, am I fulfilled? And then what's next for
(14:38):
me? And so I think it really is like this awakening moment that
we have, many of us, and sort of look around and say, okay,
well, what's next for me? But that's where I think the fear comes
It's funny because I have a son who, uh, is 19. He's
off his freshman year in college. And when I say that to people, the
immediate response I get, most of them have been, how are
(15:00):
you doing? And I have seen friends who have sent
their kids off and the, the moms, um,
really feel lost and they don't know what's next. And they're like,
okay, now what? And I was like, why is it such a negative,
um, turning point in your life when you launched
your kid into the world. I'm like, now all
(15:22):
of it was good stuff, right? I'm like, but now some good stuff can happen. I'm
like, we did our jobs. Now it's exciting to
see we can take back that time that we so
lovingly and freely gave to our children, but now it's ours
again. And what can we do with that? And how do we take care of ourselves and
nurture ourselves and use that to do whatever it is you want
(15:42):
to do, write the book or run the marathon or travel by
yourself, whatever it is, you have this freedom to do that now.
And I think that, I think that that's a pretty cool place to be
in a time in your life to be, if we embrace it and not just
let it slip by. and wonder and like attach
ourselves to the past and now like live our
(16:04):
And I think that is a big shift. I think a lot of it comes down to
identity too, right? I know for me personally, when I shifted out of
the corporate world five years ago and started my own business, there was a
lot of it, my identity was very, very tied
to my work, my profession, my title, you know, the career.
And so that there was a lot of work I had to do to sort of you
(16:25):
know, get out of that cycle and sort of reinvent myself in
some way. So I think it's a great point. And how are you doing that
all along? So for those of us who don't have kids who are off in college, you
know, we're still in the thick of it, raising, you know, how do you create that space
for yourself? How do you create the time to figure out who you are and what you
want? You know, so when that moment comes, you're not thinking to yourself, okay,
(16:46):
well, who am I and what does my life look like now? So I
And it's not always easy because, you know, your tools and kids activities and
like, it has to be, you're, you're putting the time in your calendar you're
creating the date for yourself. Yeah. You know, and it might
not be every week. Like you take it when you can get it because reality
(17:08):
Yes, for sure. For sure. I love that. So I know you specialize
in family law and divorce. Tell us some of the things that
you see women in this phase kind of
I think it's the it's that fear of being alone.
That's a big one of The some people would choose
to stay with the partner that's maybe there's infidelity or
(17:31):
it's just toxic or it's not fulfilling or there's no connection than
to be alone. And I always say to people, I'm like, well, aren't you
alone anyway in that marriage? So what difference does
it make? And when you stay in that, there's no possibility for
anything else to come in. And I had one client
who was so afraid of being alone that she would have stayed
(17:53):
and her relationship was not a good one. And she
had, throughout the entire process, had her husband changed his mind, she
would have said, yes, I'll stay married. And they got divorced and about
a year later she reached out to me and she said, I have never been
happier. And I didn't even know how unhappy my relationship was
until I was forced into a new existence. And
(18:14):
it's just having trust and faith that it all
works out. And I think clients hate when I say that to them. I'm like, it's going to
be fine and you will be fine. But how do you know? Because I
know like, as long as you wake up every day, you put one foot in
front of your other, you will start to create. your new normal. And
yes, it's hard. You're going to have those days, you're going to have those moments where
you feel alone. If there's a New Year's Eve that you're by yourself
(18:37):
and you cry and so what? And then the next day you get
up and you don't know what that day can bring. So it's
It's not allowing that feeling of you having to
have someone sitting next to you in order to move forward and you can have
a fulfilled life whether you have someone in your life or
you don't. And I think money is always a big deal too where people are
(18:58):
worried about having enough money and it's rare
that someone comes back and says, I didn't figure it out.
Cause when you're forced to figure it out, like we're really strong and
we're taskmasters and we make magic happen. And
women are able to do that, whether it's redefining who they
are in their career, going back to work. elevating what they were
(19:22):
Yeah. And I think, you know, we tend to focus on the negatives
of that, right? You know, rather than look at the opportunity within
To create, like you said, to create something new, to create your own thing, to
start fresh that next chapter. But it's very, I think our,
you know, our brains are wired to keep us safe. So we're looking at
all the negatives first and we tend to focus on that. And
(19:45):
then a lot of times I know having kids can make that
situation more difficult as well. What do you say to the women
who are stuck in that situation where they feel like, oh, I have to stay for
So I love that you asked me this because every time someone starts
going down that conversation, man and woman, it doesn't matter
who they are and they start saying they're worried about the kids and maybe
(20:06):
now is not the right time. I ask them if their daughter was in
the same marriage that they're in right now,
what would they tell them? And every single person will say, I
would tell her to leave. I'm like, well, why is
it good enough for not good? You know, not good enough for her, but
it's good enough for you. That's your answer. And if you stay,
(20:27):
your daughter will end up in that same relationship, most
likely because of the cycle and because of what she has
seen, unless she breaks that herself and we can't, we,
who knows. So. Those are the kids are going to be fine. Kids
are going to model their future and their relationships after what they
see. And sometimes having at least one parent who
(20:48):
is in a healthy relationship or has a healthy identity is
the anchor that they need in order to make those decisions for
themselves in the future. And when kids stay embroiled in that
conflict, it actually causes more damage than having parents separate.
Yeah, it's a great point. And I think, you know, the modeling, like you
said, the breaking of cycles, because if you think about the good
(21:09):
girl conditioning, how does that play into
There is, it's, it's, I think it's plays, it's everything, right?
It's like, it is the reason why so many women hesitate.
It's the reason why I will have someone come to me after they've
been married 30 years and they're like, well, the kids are, Finally out
(21:32):
of the house and now I can get divorced and I'm like, you
just gave up so much of your life. Why? And it
was because the right thing to do was to keep
my family happy, to keep my kid. And it's, it's
heartbreaking because it's like there was so much potential for
happiness, but they stayed 20 years too long. Um, and
I think that a lot of women make that decision because they
(21:55):
don't want to be the disruptor. They don't want to be the first one
in their family who's divorced. Um, then you hear that a lot and
they'll hear their parents stay together for 50, 60 years. And
therefore it's their obligation. It's their duty to do the same thing.
And that's being the good girl. That's being the people pleaser. And until
we decide to break that cycle and that role and straight
(22:17):
up say to those people who we love, who are well-intentioned, who
want the best for us. I'm sorry you feel that way, but
it's my life and my decision, and you get a little bit confrontational with
them, you're gonna continue to make those decisions to
keep them happy, knowing that it's not gonna be easy,
and you're gonna ruffle some feathers, and you do it anyway, because
(22:39):
Yeah, and what I hear you saying is also you're making the conscious decision
to prioritize yourself. Yeah. Right, to prioritize your happiness,
your future. which again is really
hard to do, and especially alone. So
You know what's great about that, and you'll
(23:00):
hear someone say, a lot of times you'll hear a mom say, they're
missing half the time with their kids. And I'll say, but think about
the possibility and potential of what relationship you can have with
your kids. One of the things that when I got divorced, my son and I
always planned a mom and son trip. It was something that would have
probably never happened had we been a married intact family. But
(23:20):
I was really intentional, Beau. And I had never traveled by myself. I'm
like, we're going to go travel to Colorado, rent the car, go to the
dude ranch. We're going to do all of these trips. And some of his greatest
memories, he talks about that time. And that
was time that it was just the two of us. And that's
so much more meaningful than whether he went every
(23:41):
other weekend to a parent. Like he doesn't talk about that as the thing. It's
the memories that he remembers are these like moments that we create. And
sometimes we don't do that if you're, unless you're, I mean
I hate to say unless you're divorced, but it's the divorce that forces you to
look at your relationship a little bit different and not take for granted that
your kids are always there. So creating those memories in
(24:02):
Yeah, it's the catalyst, right? And then you think about how can I be more
intentional in spending that time together? I love that. That's a
beautiful story. So for our listeners, if there's someone listening today, Renee,
who is feeling stuck, who's feeling overwhelmed, who's
feeling afraid to take that next step, what's
I would say make a list of what the thing is that you're looking
(24:25):
for. And it could be Happiness fulfillment
connection and usually the type of high-level things on that list
and then on the other side of that piece of paper What's the thing holding you
back? and if it says fear and overwhelm and anxiety
and that's not good enough reason and just Focus on what
you actually want and make the decision based on that and sometimes
(24:46):
when you can just see it on paper Mm-hmm. It reminds yourself
of like this is why I'm not settling for good enough or just
fine anymore Like the things I want are worthy, but write
it down And look at it every single day, because
you get maybe a little bit more brave, or maybe you take a little bit of
a small step towards that, but at least it keeps you
(25:09):
Yeah, and I think what you said is really important too, in addition to writing it
down, is knowing that you deserve it. Knowing that you're worth having
And don't apologize for it. It's okay to say, I want
to be happy or to say, I want financial independence.
That's not selfish. Like you can say all of those things and
(25:31):
it's, it's fine. I think that's women don't talk about that stuff either. Right.
Well, they don't talk about money and how much we're earning and,
Like, why? Why are we not talking about that stuff? And why can
we not say, I want this from my life? Like, just getting really
comfortable of talking about all the things that we see the men talking about.
You know, they talk about, they don't apologize for having wishes
(25:52):
and desires. So I think we should stop apologizing for
it too. It's not a dirty secret. We get to say what we want in
Absolutely. Which goes back to that good girl conditioning, right?
What we believe we can and should talk about, I think it's
really important. Yes. Absolutely. So Renee, where can
(26:13):
So my law firm can be found at FamilyLawyerCT.com. If
anyone is listening and is at that crossroads of
a divorce or not, I do have a free guide there
that gets you to start thinking about the first steps. My
practice is in Connecticut, but the guide is really, anyone can use
(26:36):
Perfect. I want to thank you so much for being here, for sharing your story, your
And of course, you can visit my website at gialacqua.com, reach out on Instagram at
gialacqua. I want to thank you for joining us today. And remember, shift
happens. So if you're feeling called to something greater, trust
the pull. We'll see you next time on What the Shift. All
(26:58):
right, Shifter, that's a wrap on today's episode of What The Shift. But
here's the thing. Awareness is just the first step. The
real shift happens when you decide to do something with it. So before
you go back to business as usual, ask yourself, what is
one thing you are done carrying? What's one shift you're
ready to make? And if this episode hit home, don't keep it to yourself. Hit
(27:19):
subscribe, leave a review, and send it to a woman who needs to hear this because
we shift together. Remember, you don't have to have it all figured out.
You just have to take the next step. And I'll be right here next week, ready
to shift with you. This is What the Shift, and we are just
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