December 20, 2024 • 36 mins
In this empowering episode, Gia welcomes Dr. Judith Joseph, a leading psychiatrist and researcher dedicated to democratizing mental health.
Together, they delve into the often-overlooked topic of high-functioning depression, exploring how it manifests in the lives of high-achieving women and the societal pressures that contribute to this silent struggle.
Dr. Judith shares her groundbreaking insights from her research lab, revealing the symptoms of high-functioning depression and how it differs from typical sadness. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing and validating our emotions, especially for those who feel the need to constantly push through pain for the sake of others.
Listeners will learn about Dr. Judith's innovative framework, the "Five V's of Happiness," which provides practical tools for finding joy and fulfillment in everyday life. From validation and expression to understanding personal values, this episode offers actionable steps to help you reconnect with what truly matters.
Join Gia and Dr. Judith as they discuss the ripple effect of mental health on families, the significance of slowing down, and the power of community support. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to redefine success and embrace their authentic selves.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Your Future Starts Now, the go-to podcast for
extraordinary women who are ready to step into their next chapter with
authentic confidence. I'm your host, Gia Lacqua empowerment coach,
motivational speaker, children's book author, and girl mom. Whether
you're a corporate powerhouse or an entrepreneur, this show is
designed for you. Your Future Starts Now is more than
(00:20):
just a podcast. It's a movement, a movement towards rewriting
the rules of success for high-achieving women. Are you ready
to get unstuck and step into your next chapter? If
so, you are exactly where you need to be. Your future starts
Welcome to Your Future Starts Now. I'm your host, Gia Lacqua. Thanks for
(00:41):
tuning in. I am so excited to introduce you today
to Dr. Judith Joseph. Dr. Judith is a leading
psychiatrist, researcher, and award-winning content creator dedicated
to providing her patients and community with groundbreaking insights
and practical tools to unlock a new world of mental
wealth and personal growth. Dr. Judith, we
(01:09):
Of course, there's a lot to talk about. So tell
us a little bit about, you know, so our listeners can get to know you a little bit better. Tell
Well, I'm a board certified psychiatrist and I
practice in Manhattan and I see patients that are
anywhere from four to 90 years old. And
(01:30):
I have a research lab where I do clinical studies, but I
also have a small private practice where I see patients for therapy and
medication management. Uh,
you know, in addition to that, um, you know, I, I started
creating content based on what I was seeing in my lab. It went viral. I
didn't think anyone would be interested in it. I thought, you know, people aren't interested in research,
(01:51):
but clearly they want to learn. Um, I
posted a real and a tick talk on high functioning depression
based on what I was seeing in my lab and. it was seen by over 20 million
people around the world. And people were like, oh my gosh, that's me. How did you know?
So I've really been on this mission to democratize mental health
and to provide evidence-based information based on what I see
(02:12):
in my practice and in my research, but
making it really accessible to people. Because I mean, if
you've ever searched for a psychiatrist, there are parts of the country where like
there's one of me for like 30,000 people. So you know, in
order to really address this mental health crisis and the shortage of providers,
I think that making this information available to the masses
(02:36):
Absolutely. And I love that. And it
makes so much sense. And when you say that, you know, people resonated
with your video and your message, would you say, you
know, it was a specific population or, you know,
Well, what I really see in terms of high functioning depression, it's
(02:57):
not just high achievers. You know, people think, oh, high functioning, you're like, you
know, this like corporate person with like, you know, gazillion
dollars and running a high powered company. No. Actually,
people who are high functioning, who push through pain, who push through obstacles every
day to show up for others, that's like the working mom. That's
like the single mom who's just trying to get everyone out the door, take
(03:19):
care of her career, making sure her kids
show up. That's the student, the
student who has so many exams, doesn't want to
ask the parent for help, doesn't want to burden anyone. You
know, people who are like the educators, the teachers who
are taking care of their students, but then also staying after
(03:42):
work to make sure that their students. Understand and, you
know, are really grasping information. So they pass their exams. Like,
these are the people who. Are the strong ones, you know, they
show up for others. They're the rock and they can. very
rarely show vulnerability because everyone's depending on them, but they're struggling
inside. And they wear a mask of productivity because that
(04:03):
is how they cope. They busy themselves, they push through pain. So
I was surprised by the variety of
people in different industries, different ages, you know,
just different backgrounds that were saying that they, that this
resonated with them. And also, I was also surprised that it was people from all
over the world, you know, people saying, Hey, I'm from, you know, X
(04:25):
part of Europe, and that's me, people from parts of
Asia, Africa saying, I do that, you know, I think
it is the human experience, because I think a lot of us feel like we can't
let our guards down, we have to show up. And that's our coping mechanism,
we busy ourselves through pain and discomfort, because
that's just how we know how to cope. We probably saw it in our parents. We
(04:46):
saw it in our communities. Maybe it's not culturally acceptable to
say things like I'm depressed. So you just, you know, keep
pushing through until something gets right. Your body breaks down or
you actually become clinically depressed and you can't function or you
cope with like substances or unhealthy behavior. So
I think it's an experience that a lot of people can identify with
(05:10):
Yeah, that makes sense. And so can you describe for people who may
not be as familiar with high-functioning depression or hidden depression, kind
of how you would distinguish that from, you know, just
being sad, right? Like, what does that look like? How would you describe
It's a really great question because we all experience sadness. That's
a part of the human experience. But in my research lab,
(05:33):
in order to meet criteria for major depressive disorder, which
is clinical depression, You have to pull out this big
Bible of psychiatry called the DSM-5 and then go through the checklist and
you have to meet five out of nine criteria. So some of those are like guilt,
poor concentration, low energy, not
getting good sleep, things like that. But you also have to meet criteria
(05:55):
for significant sadness or
something called anhedonia, which is a lack of interest and pleasure in things.
The anhedonia is the part that people don't realize is actually a
symptom that they're experiencing. It's like that meh, that blah, the lack of interest,
like things don't excite you anymore. So that kind of gets snuck under
the radar. But here's the thing, in order to meet criteria for a clinical
(06:18):
depression, a major depressive disorder, the box has to be checked that
you have a lack of functioning or significant impairment in functioning or
significant distress. So what I was seeing was a lot of
people who had symptoms of depression, but they were actually over-functioning,
right? Because that was their COVID mechanism, to be busy. Or they
weren't identifying with their emotions. They weren't saying, I'm just distressed because
(06:39):
maybe that wasn't a part of their cultural upbringing. Or maybe
there's people who just don't even acknowledge their symptoms. So
these people will get missed by a clinician. They go to a doctor and
the doctor's trying to put them in a box of depression. They're not going to
be diagnosed. Therapists will say, well, you don't meet criteria. And
the interesting thing is that so many people reach out to me over DMs,
(07:00):
over TikTok saying, my doctor said that there's
nothing wrong with me because I'm still functioning. Or they said, I don't meet criteria, but
there's something off. I can't put my finger on it. And so I
knew I was onto something, you know, why are we waiting for people to
break down, to be in significant distress, to have crisis in
order to address this? We can actually prevent this from happening. We
(07:21):
can prevent a mental health epidemic. And we don't have the providers.
There's just not enough psychiatrists. There's not enough therapists. There's not enough
mental health experts out there to meet this need. So let's try
and prevent this depression. Let's prevent this
substance abuse. Let's prevent this addiction to social
media, these negative coping mechanisms that people are using
(07:41):
to self-soothe something that they don't understand. And let's educate people,
let's democratize mental health and let them know that there's a name for this experience. And
in my research, when you give a name to someone's experience, right?
It's called affect labeling. You allow them to name the experience
that in itself decreases the amount of anxiety that they experience because
(08:02):
they're like, well, finally, I know what this is. Yeah, there's nothing wrong
with me. There's it's not like there's this unknown entity.
I know it now. And now I can do something about it. Sure. And somebody
sees it. And someone sees it. Yeah, I'm glad you
said that because many times it's like an invisible condition, right?
Like, you know, things that we experience because you can't see them.
(08:23):
It's not like someone who's having an asthma attack. They're gasping for
air and you're like, oh, my gosh, someone get this person help. When someone's struggling
in silence and they have these symptoms that they don't understand. and
they appear high functioning, they're not going to get help, support, empathy. In
fact, they feel as if they're a burden. They feel like when
they ask for help, that they're burdening others. But if they only knew
(08:44):
that feeling guilt and feeling like you're a burden, if they
only knew that's a symptom of depression, they would be like, wait, this is a symptom. That's
why I don't want to ask for help. That's why I feel guilty when others help me. That's
why I feel less than. So I think it's important to allow
this information to be put out there so people cannot not necessarily
self-diagnose, but self-recognize that this
(09:05):
is something that they could potentially get help for and then prevent this
Yeah. And I love what you said, too. I think it is a very common, especially for
our audience of high achieving women, their symptoms to be
dismissed, especially in the general practice setting,
as, you know, well, you're a middle-aged woman, it's perimenopause, or,
(09:26):
you know, well, you're a mom. And so it's very easy
to sort of attribute or chalk up those symptoms to life.
Yeah, it is. I mean, like, We as women push
through pain, it's a part of the experience. From
the time we start menstruating, it's like, well, everyone goes
(09:47):
through this, so what's the big deal? I just remember some
of my siblings having the worst cramps
and then just couldn't go to school. You go
to school the next day and it's like, really? You didn't come to school because of your
period? It was like this stigma. When now when we see these
like Instagram memes of like men putting this period stimulator
(10:08):
on and the cramp simulator and they're like rolling on the floor. I can't
stand up. It's like, yeah, it's validating because
sometimes the period will stop you. Sometimes you can't go to school.
Sometimes you can't go to work. But we're just told like, well, all
women go through it. So like, what's your problem? And it's just very
unfair. And it's the same for postpartum depression. Like
(10:30):
I'm right now conducting a clinical study on postpartum depression, looking
at novel medications for it, because, you know, thus far, there's only
one FDA approved medication for something that has gone on since
the beginning of the time, right, for us as humans, which is
really scary to think about. But you know, we're told, okay,
well, every so what mothers give birth, and you're
(10:50):
not the first to do it like, oh, or like, my mom had five kids,
and you're complaining with one. But you know, we know now that
like, physiologically, that there are hormonal changes that
happen in the body and brain, that some Mothers
experience things like mastitis, which is like infections and
breastfeeding. And then some of us have C-sections and
(11:11):
we have to get through that. Some of us can't even poop after
we give birth. These are really tough things. And there's this
little being, sometimes more than one if we have multiple, right?
that depends on us and then we're just told well you're supposed to look thin
right afterwards you're supposed to look like you enjoy being a mother you're supposed to
get through it when all of these things are happening to our
(11:31):
bodies and brains and it's really a form of gaslighting for women so
yeah we are the pros in pushing through pain and
there's no wonder that you know, women are twice
as likely to have depression and anxiety than men. Sure. Because all these
things happen to us and we're told we're supposed to just deal with it because women go through this.
And then not to mention menopause, which just hits many of us like a
(11:53):
like a ton of bricks, because, you know, most physicians
and I know I went to medical school and I got maybe one course
on menopause and women spend like about, you
know, a significant portion of their lives, like two thirds of their lives postmenopausal. So
like, why are we not addressing
this? Why are we, why do we know so little about something that all
(12:15):
people who have ovaries will eventually go through? Why does this happen? It's
just really appalling. And that's why I think having this information
available and having support in community and talking about
it openly without shame is important. You know, like, For
me, it warms my heart when I hear women saying like, yeah, like I
(12:35):
couldn't sleep last night. You know, I guess it's perimenopause or
like, you know, my ears are itching and things are happening to my
body. Well, I guess it's perimenopause. It's like we need to talk about it. We
need to support each other because. Really, the providers don't know
the professionals are just they just they just know so little and
we have to take it on ourselves again to educate ourselves so
that we know it's not in our heads that this is happening to us. This is real and
(13:01):
Yeah. And I, and I appreciate that you're putting that truth out into the world
because the reality is I, you know, I've never been a huge fan of social media,
but one of the things I learned as I started
my business is there's a huge number
of credible experts like yourself who are using
it as a platform to educate. Right. And I think that's the
(13:22):
most powerful tool for people to
consume information right from credible experts and
to be more informed, whether it's about mental health, whether it's
about menopause. Right. And there's less stigma around all of those things
Yes, there's definitely still stigma. And, you know, I think stigma will
(13:44):
always exist. But I think what
is changing is that people are more open. And
the more we talk about it, eventually, you know, they'll
just still be those pockets of stigma, but the majority of people will accept it.
And Yeah, I agree. There
may be a fair bit of like over diagnosis online, and
(14:07):
there's nothing wrong with people sharing their stories. But when you're not, you
know, trained in a certain area, and like, you haven't seen the treatment successes,
the treatment failures, you haven't worked in teams, and
you're making blanket statements about, you know, your one
experience and applying it to everyone that's dangerous, you know, but
I do think that there's a place for stories like people
(14:29):
sharing their stories is very effective. A lot of times you hear health professionals talking
and you're just going out because it's boring. You know, you're like, what are they talking about? They're using
big words. So having, you know, real stories
of people who've experienced what they've experienced and gone
through it and had, you know, failures in their own
lives. That's very powerful. Yeah. And I do agree
(14:50):
that we need more health care professionals online who are credible, but
they also need help. They need support and they need to know how to
do it properly. You know, because if you do, you're
reading a journal article and no one cares about what you're saying, then that
Yeah, for sure. And I want to go back to something that you mentioned
earlier, because I do think it affects a significant portion
(15:15):
of the high functioning women that are listening
and that, you know, I talk to and work with. And specifically, you
know, we know the obvious, quote unquote, a
more common coping mechanisms, right? Like substance
abuse, drinking drugs, eating. We
(15:35):
don't talk as much about overfunctioning or
busyness as a coping mechanism. And
I would love your take on that and specifically how
Well, one of the symptoms in PTSD, post-traumatic stress
(15:57):
disorder, which is what people are, you know, people think PTSD or
trauma responses like PTSD only happen in like combat veterans.
But we now know that that's not the case. If you've been through something
painful in your life, and let's say like an abusive relationship
or a medical trauma, um, you
know, you can go through things like avoidance,
(16:19):
like not wanting to think about it, not wanting to deal with the trauma because
you don't want to be reminded it causes too much physiological unrest or
like causes you to go into fight or flight. And so one
of the ways that you avoid trauma is by busying
yourself. You know, if you're too busy, to
sit and sit still and think about something painful, then that's
(16:40):
your trauma response, right? I see this a lot. And
I see this fear of slowing down that if you, um, you
know, take the time to just sit and sit, you know, think about things. There's
this real fear that people have unconscious or conscious that
they'll just break down, you know, like, so they busy themselves. They
just keep going, going, going. I see this
(17:00):
a lot with moms, you know, it's like. Some of the
people I've treated who've gone through terrible divorces and financial traumas,
and they're on their own. They just, they don't want to slow down because they're afraid
that what if I slow down? What if I break down? My kids need me, you
know, or I'll lose my job. So they just push, push, push. And then before they know
it, they have like high blood pressure, diabetes, they haven't been taking care of themselves. And
(17:22):
they're like, where did the time go? You know, how did this happen to me? But
you know, there's a real gift and slowing down.
Yes, you may slow down and you may cry. You may start
to feel depressed, but you start to feel again. You start to process that
trauma. You start to process those emotions. You start to
reflect on, well, how have I been maybe dealing with this in
(17:44):
an unhealthy way? How have I been coping in unhealthy ways? And
then you start to develop, hopefully, skills
that are more adaptive, that actually help you to process trauma
in ways that are sustainable. One
of the things that I use with my clients is mindfulness,
but different types of mindfulness that are newer
(18:07):
in existence, like metacognition, where they're not,
you know, trying to change their thoughts. They're actually trying
to live with that thought and say, like, OK, you know, these things happen. I
do worry, but let me process this in a healthy way and
learn how to live alongside my worries so that my worries don't dominate me,
so my worries don't make me do, do, do, do. Right. So my worries are
(18:29):
just there in the background, but I'm still taking care of myself. And
some of my clients just hold so much of their trauma
in their bodies that they don't realize that certain pain is related
to just being tense all the time. So some of them need a lot
of body work, a lot of movement work, because they're able
to release some of that through these more tangible,
(18:51):
more physical ways of getting
this stress out. Everyone's different. Others
are just not ready to talk yet. So we focus on
more of the behaviors like, well, you know, maybe
don't say yes to that project at work, because maybe you don't have to prove
yourself. Maybe you have guilt for being
(19:13):
late because you had to take your kid to the doctor, but you don't have
to say yes to that project and then make yourself even more
burdened. You know, like so a lot of intention in
the decisions that you're making. So that's everyone's different. But
the bottom line is that, you know, the busying themselves in
these ways is detrimental to them.
(19:34):
And you see this in children, they're busying themselves online. They're excessively
consuming social media and they can't, when
they take a break from the tablet or the device,
they just get restless and irritable. So what
I find is that when I'm treating the head of the household, be
it the mom or dad or whoever is the leader in
(19:57):
the household. When you work with them to slow the business down,
you see it being slowed in all of the family
unit. You see the child slowing down too. So because mom
isn't on her computer, you know, and during dinner, he like
the kid isn't on his device. Everyone's slowing down. Everyone's being intentional. Everyone's
being more present. And so that's why it's important to
(20:18):
address this because it is contagious. This busyness is contagious. This
high function depression is contagious. This anhedonia is contagious in
the same way that positive behaviors can be contagious. So,
Yeah, it's a great point. And I love to hear you say, you know,
think about that ripple effect. If you're a parent, how those
(20:38):
behaviors are serving you, how they're not serving you, but then
how are they impacting those around you and most importantly,
your family. So I think that's such great advice. And
I know you mentioned your happiness lab and you talk a lot about the science of
happiness. So I would love to, you know, if you could expand upon that a
Well, I've developed a system called the five V's. And
(21:01):
what I found is that we all have this
idea that whatever it is, if you if I ask my
my patients, my clients to imagine what happiness is, some of them will imagine,
you know, like finally finishing their medical school
and getting, you know, like a job and making a lot of money.
And then some of them will imagine Um, finally
(21:23):
finding a partner that gets them and then starting a family others,
it's like. Maintaining a certain amount of success as an
entrepreneur, but then what I found is that. And
what the research shows is that when you have these ideas of happiness. And
you're living for the future of happiness. You end up, once
you get those goals, you're still searching. You're still, OK, well, now
(21:44):
I want this and now I want that. And I've I've experienced
that, too. Like for me, it was when I finally graduate medical school,
when I finally get this position, when I finally get this marriage, when
I finally get this house. But then I had to have a baby and then, you
know, more. It's just like so much. And I was also down
that path, which led me to reflect on my own personal
experiences with high function depression, like just pushing through and not really being
(22:07):
present. So the five V's is about finding
points of happiness in the now. How do
you find happiness today? Because tomorrow really isn't promised. And
the first one is validation. So many of us, we
don't acknowledge how we feel because we push through our pain. So first,
I want you to be real with yourself and start acknowledging your feelings. Many
(22:30):
people with high functioning depression experience something called alexithymia, where
they don't know how they feel. So sometimes, you
know, in my book, I'll mention like, there's this list of emotions. So I want people to
start getting familiar with emotions. I treat children and adults.
So with the children I treat, I treat There's a
face chart that we use to identify emotions, but sometimes I use that same
(22:51):
face chart in my adult patients because they forget what,
you know, the range of emotions that they're capable of. You know, they're binary
at times, sad or happy, right? But no, there are other things. And
the reason that's important is because we now know from
science that happiness is not just one feeling.
It is a plethora of sensations. So like when you're feeling tired,
(23:12):
getting rest. When you're feeling thirsty, drinking water,
like feeling quenched. When you're feeling lonely, being connected.
These are the points that make up happiness, right? It's not
just one idea. So it's a real reframe for people. So
it's important to, number one, validate how you feel, but many
people have a hard time just even naming an emotion. So we work on that first. The
(23:35):
second is expressing how you feel, venting. And venting can
be to a therapist, it could be to a faith leader, it could be to a friend,
a family member. It could be to yourself, like just
saying it out loud in a mirror. It could be writing in
a journal. And for me, I vent, if I'm feeling a
certain way, I'll make like a meme or I'll post on social media
and I express it that way. But it could be creative. You can vent through, you
(23:58):
know, your singing or artistic expression, like
drawing. And the third is value. So what do
you really, what really gives you purpose in
life? What really gives you meaning in life? And be real
with this because A lot of times people think
that, oh, like I value money or I value success
(24:19):
or accolades, but at the end of the day, if you were to
be on your deathbed, what. would you do if you could wish
for five more minutes of something, what would you be doing? And I bet it
wouldn't be, well, I just need five more minutes. I
just wish I had gotten a degree or something like that. Most people won't
say that. They'll say things like, I wish I had more time with the ones I loved. I wish I
(24:39):
spent more time doing the things I really enjoyed. Sometimes
I have to really re-educate people about what their true
values are because they get lost along the way. And in my book, I talk about how you
can identify that. I was at a conference recently and I was having
a discussion with a woman who said, I don't know what I value anymore. So, you
know, I just briefly went over an exercise with her to try and figure out, you
(25:02):
know, where along the way did she lose herself? It turns out
she couldn't remember parts of her childhood because she had blocked it out. And
there was an unresolved trauma that had gotten in the way of her really staying
connected to what she really valued. And then the next V is
vital. So these are things that edify your body and
brain that really support the only body you
(25:23):
will ever have, the vehicle that carries you through
life that we neglect and many times treat poorly. So
for me, the area that I wish I was better
at is sleep. I wish that I could really work on
my sleep a bit more. But, you know, sleeping better, eating
foods that feed your brain, Six years ago, I shifted
(25:44):
my diet and I started eating fish every day. And it's really changed my
memory. It's I feel better. I feel less achy
with in terms of like eating anti-inflammatory foods. I eat blueberries every
day. So really feeding your brain with anti-inflammatory and
brain healthy foods. I'm getting movement and
(26:05):
I'm very intentional about working out as often as
possible because it makes me feel happy even on days when I don't want to. I get
some movement in. And then really having a healthier technology
relationship. So part of the vitals that I think doctors are
going to start asking about more is like, how much time do you spend on screens?
Because we know that that's not healthy for developing brains, and it's not healthy for
(26:27):
adults either. And then a part of that vitals
that I ask about as a therapist, and I include in my book is your relationships, because
the number one predictor of your longevity is the quality of your relationships.
And then the last fee is vision. What are you celebrating? What
are you looking forward to? Many times, people
who push through pain don't acknowledge their wins. So I really teach
(26:50):
people to celebrate their small wins. It doesn't have to be grand.
It could be getting your kid to school on time. It could be getting one
thing done for that day. you know, could be making your bed or
just doing one thing on your to-do list, but also planning
moments in the future to celebrate with the values that
you actually love. So it's carving out that time and
(27:11):
being intentional about how much time you spend in
the future so that you keep moving forward. You have
things to look forward to in the future to move forward instead of being stuck in
the past. So these five V's are based on evidence-based
research based on positive psychology and elements of
cultural psychiatry. And in my book, I talk about how different
(27:32):
cultures do this, how they, you can make this really,
basically honoring your ancestors. I talk about parts
of Europe, Asia, Africa, how we all have the five E's.
within our cultural language, we just forgot about it.
You know, mental health has always been a part of our history,
you know, but we just forgot about it and how we can honor
(27:59):
Absolutely. Such a powerful framework. And I know you do have
a book that is launching in March of 2025 called
It's now April, April, April, April, April,
2025, which we can pre-order now. So is there anything else you'd
like people to know about your book and also where
(28:22):
You can pre-order the book on my website, anywhere
that books are sold. It's sold in audio and hardcover. The
hardcovers are really what I'm promoting because
there are grids in there. There are tools in there that, you know, you can use
for yourself, for your family members. There's something in there for every
age. I am a psychiatrist that treats all age groups and
(28:43):
all generations. And I do have pre-order bonuses.
So if you pre-order, there are bonuses that you can
get. There are audio soundbites
from world-renowned experts that all have gone through high-functioning
periods where they weren't acknowledging their pain and they talk about how they got through it.
(29:03):
And then I also have these virtual and in-person meetups in
my happiness lab. So we recently had a bunch of High
school students roll through the lab and they learned about the five V's in real time. We're
having adult meetups. We're taking the happiness lab on the road
so that, you know, you're not just watching something or reading something. You're
actually learning how to practice it and utilize it in your day
(29:24):
to day life. And it hopefully tailors to the
science of your happiness. And that's what is called the science of your happiness lab, because we
know that everyone has their own roadmaps. We're trying to help people to
come up with these individualized plans so they have sustainable happiness.
Love that. And so speaking of happiness, you know, we talk about success
on this podcast and redefining success. And so I would love to know
(29:50):
Well, you know, in 2020, I was sitting at my computer in my
lab like I am right now. And that's
the horns outside New York
City. But I was giving
a talk to a major hospital system and really
helping people navigate feelings of fears and anxiety because
(30:12):
of the unknown of the pandemic. And I found myself struggling
with this feeling of blah, numbing. And
I was like, halfway through the talk, I was like, I think I'm depressed. And it was like a
realization for me. And I'm a board certified psychiatrist. I
have like degrees from Columbia, Duke. I just was
shocked. I was like, how did I not know I was depressed? It kind of stuck up on me. So
(30:34):
I had to really redefine my own happiness because I had just gotten into
this prestigious group of women who were, it's
a women's collaborative at Columbia University where I went to medical school
and I'm chair of women in medicine there. And I just gotten all these, I was getting all
these press interviews and I was getting all these accolades and I just
felt like numb. I was like, okay, what's next? What's next? And
(30:56):
anhedonia stuck up on me. And so I had to really change
the way that I approached life because I had all the things on
my checklist. I had the marriage, had the kid, had the house, had the lab,
had the successful career, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled.
I wasn't feeling a sense of purpose. And I was just feeling blah.
And I had to reframe because I wasn't really taking care of myself
(31:18):
using the five V's. And that's why I ended up developing this,
because I think this can happen to anyone. Like I mentioned not just people
who are high achieving on paper or people who just push through pain
to show for others. You know, we just neglect ourselves. We just, you
know, don't even validate our own experiences as
humans. So I really wanted to get back to the basics and
(31:39):
make something that was accessible to everyone
so that we all have the possibility to achieve this,
you know, this happiness that is individualized. And that's why I
have these experiences called the science of your happiness, because I
really do believe that we all have the roadmap within.
(32:00):
Amazing. And I think thank you for sharing your story. I think it is so
relatable. And I think to your point, when we can be vulnerable and
share our experience, it can help others through their own
journey. And so, you know, so many women can relate to that.
You know, the work I do, I refer to it as the arrival fallacy,
right? Chasing after that next goal, that milestone, you get there and then
(32:21):
you're not celebrating the win. You're thinking about, OK, what's next? Right.
Thinking that that's going to bring you satisfaction, fulfillment, happiness.
But it doesn't. And so I think, you know, if you find yourself getting
trapped in that cycle, kind of pausing and asking yourself, you
know, what is it you're striving for? What is it we're seeking? What is it we're
(32:43):
Yeah, and also just like how to reflect and find that time in
life when you are actually feeling fulfilled and purposeful. And
I remembered it was back when I was with my siblings. My
dad is a pastor and we grew up in the church and he would pull us on stage and we
do these skits. And so I had to be like, you know, OK, let
me try doing that again. And I did that. I started doing skits on
(33:03):
social media and teaching about mental health and it just took off. Really,
when you do invest in what you truly value, it may not lead
to any money, but that wealth of happiness is
worth more than anything. So that's what you really
need to reflect on and try to find what you valued in
life and how did you get lost along the way. But you can find yourself
(33:28):
Is there anything else you would like to tell our listeners, one thing you'd like them to think
about doing differently or changing after listening to
I think whenever I speak with people out when I'm doing public
talks and speaking engagements, they're always like, well, how do I, how
do I get back to that? I just really need help. I encourage them to
take my anhedonia quiz. Um, it's on my
(33:50):
website and it's free and try to find the points
where you're really lacking. Pleasure. I think we tend to, when
you answer the quiz and you find things that you're, you are still enjoying, people tend
to just keep doing more of those things. That's important, but
also look at the things that you stopped enjoying and consider reengaging
in that. So one of the questions on the quiz is like, like, I
(34:12):
don't enjoy being as intimate with my partner anymore. So
like, you don't have to full on get into it with your partner. But one
of the things you can do is test the waters is, you know, just gently like
cuddling with them or just rubbing the smaller back or doing something where
you're basically exposing yourself to the idea of
doing the thing again, right? If it's, if it's art, and some people used
(34:33):
to like going to museums and looking at art, you don't have to go to like the MoMA, you don't
have to go to like, plan a day at the museum, but just try
like looking up art on your phone, you know, like, try to engage in things
that you used to enjoy slowly. Because I think we
tend to do what we're good at, or if want to keep doing what we already have
because it makes us feel good, but gently exposing
(34:54):
yourself to the things that you once enjoyed will actually retrain your
brain that you can enjoy them again. And that's one of the things I encourage
Such great advice. I love that. And Dr. Judith, where can our listeners learn
DrJudithJoseph.com, and you can follow me
on all socials at DrJudithJoseph. The only
(35:17):
one that I'm not at DrJudithJoseph on is Facebook. So
that one is DrJudithJosephMDMBA. I don't know
what I was thinking with that, but you can find me, you Google me, DrJudithJoseph.
Amazing. I want to thank you so much for being here, for sharing your insights, your
story, and your expertise. And thank you for the work that you're doing.
(35:41):
And of course, you can visit my website at GiaLacqua.com. Reach out on Instagram
at GiaLacqua. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. This
is Gia signing off with gratitude for your time and energy. Our mic drops, but
the movement continues. Until next time, your next chapter is
That concludes another empowering episode of Your Future Starts Now.
Before we wrap up, I want to thank this incredible community of high-achieving women.
(36:04):
Your energy, resilience, and commitment to growth are the driving force
behind what we do. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate
it, leave a review, and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Your
feedback fuels our mission to empower high-achieving women just like
you. And of course, share Your Future Starts Now with the extraordinary women
in your life who are also on a journey of healing and empowerment. Connect
(36:26):
with us on social media, share your thoughts, let us know what topics you'd like to
explore in future episodes. Stay connected on Instagram at
GiaLacqua. I encourage you to carry the energy of this conversation
into your day and keep on supporting the incredible women around you.
Welcome to Your Future Starts Now, the go-to podcast for
extraordinary women who are ready to step into their next chapter with
authentic confidence. I'm your host, Gia Lacqua empowerment coach,
motivational speaker, children's book author, and girl mom. Whether
you're a corporate powerhouse or an entrepreneur, this show is
designed for you. Your Future Starts Now is more than
(00:20):
just a podcast. It's a movement, a movement towards rewriting
the rules of success for high-achieving women. Are you ready
to get unstuck and step into your next chapter? If
so, you are exactly where you need to be. Your future starts
Welcome to Your Future Starts Now. I'm your host, Gia Lacqua. Thanks for
(00:41):
tuning in. I am so excited to introduce you today
to Dr. Judith Joseph. Dr. Judith is a leading
psychiatrist, researcher, and award-winning content creator dedicated
to providing her patients and community with groundbreaking insights
and practical tools to unlock a new world of mental
wealth and personal growth. Dr. Judith, we
(01:09):
Of course, there's a lot to talk about. So tell
us a little bit about, you know, so our listeners can get to know you a little bit better. Tell
Well, I'm a board certified psychiatrist and I
practice in Manhattan and I see patients that are
anywhere from four to 90 years old. And
(01:30):
I have a research lab where I do clinical studies, but I
also have a small private practice where I see patients for therapy and
medication management. Uh,
you know, in addition to that, um, you know, I, I started
creating content based on what I was seeing in my lab. It went viral. I
didn't think anyone would be interested in it. I thought, you know, people aren't interested in research,
(01:51):
but clearly they want to learn. Um, I
posted a real and a tick talk on high functioning depression
based on what I was seeing in my lab and. it was seen by over 20 million
people around the world. And people were like, oh my gosh, that's me. How did you know?
So I've really been on this mission to democratize mental health
and to provide evidence-based information based on what I see
(02:12):
in my practice and in my research, but
making it really accessible to people. Because I mean, if
you've ever searched for a psychiatrist, there are parts of the country where like
there's one of me for like 30,000 people. So you know, in
order to really address this mental health crisis and the shortage of providers,
I think that making this information available to the masses
(02:36):
Absolutely. And I love that. And it
makes so much sense. And when you say that, you know, people resonated
with your video and your message, would you say, you
know, it was a specific population or, you know,
Well, what I really see in terms of high functioning depression, it's
(02:57):
not just high achievers. You know, people think, oh, high functioning, you're like, you
know, this like corporate person with like, you know, gazillion
dollars and running a high powered company. No. Actually,
people who are high functioning, who push through pain, who push through obstacles every
day to show up for others, that's like the working mom. That's
like the single mom who's just trying to get everyone out the door, take
(03:19):
care of her career, making sure her kids
show up. That's the student, the
student who has so many exams, doesn't want to
ask the parent for help, doesn't want to burden anyone. You
know, people who are like the educators, the teachers who
are taking care of their students, but then also staying after
(03:42):
work to make sure that their students. Understand and, you
know, are really grasping information. So they pass their exams. Like,
these are the people who. Are the strong ones, you know, they
show up for others. They're the rock and they can. very
rarely show vulnerability because everyone's depending on them, but they're struggling
inside. And they wear a mask of productivity because that
(04:03):
is how they cope. They busy themselves, they push through pain. So
I was surprised by the variety of
people in different industries, different ages, you know,
just different backgrounds that were saying that they, that this
resonated with them. And also, I was also surprised that it was people from all
over the world, you know, people saying, Hey, I'm from, you know, X
(04:25):
part of Europe, and that's me, people from parts of
Asia, Africa saying, I do that, you know, I think
it is the human experience, because I think a lot of us feel like we can't
let our guards down, we have to show up. And that's our coping mechanism,
we busy ourselves through pain and discomfort, because
that's just how we know how to cope. We probably saw it in our parents. We
(04:46):
saw it in our communities. Maybe it's not culturally acceptable to
say things like I'm depressed. So you just, you know, keep
pushing through until something gets right. Your body breaks down or
you actually become clinically depressed and you can't function or you
cope with like substances or unhealthy behavior. So
I think it's an experience that a lot of people can identify with
(05:10):
Yeah, that makes sense. And so can you describe for people who may
not be as familiar with high-functioning depression or hidden depression, kind
of how you would distinguish that from, you know, just
being sad, right? Like, what does that look like? How would you describe
It's a really great question because we all experience sadness. That's
a part of the human experience. But in my research lab,
(05:33):
in order to meet criteria for major depressive disorder, which
is clinical depression, You have to pull out this big
Bible of psychiatry called the DSM-5 and then go through the checklist and
you have to meet five out of nine criteria. So some of those are like guilt,
poor concentration, low energy, not
getting good sleep, things like that. But you also have to meet criteria
(05:55):
for significant sadness or
something called anhedonia, which is a lack of interest and pleasure in things.
The anhedonia is the part that people don't realize is actually a
symptom that they're experiencing. It's like that meh, that blah, the lack of interest,
like things don't excite you anymore. So that kind of gets snuck under
the radar. But here's the thing, in order to meet criteria for a clinical
(06:18):
depression, a major depressive disorder, the box has to be checked that
you have a lack of functioning or significant impairment in functioning or
significant distress. So what I was seeing was a lot of
people who had symptoms of depression, but they were actually over-functioning,
right? Because that was their COVID mechanism, to be busy. Or they
weren't identifying with their emotions. They weren't saying, I'm just distressed because
(06:39):
maybe that wasn't a part of their cultural upbringing. Or maybe
there's people who just don't even acknowledge their symptoms. So
these people will get missed by a clinician. They go to a doctor and
the doctor's trying to put them in a box of depression. They're not going to
be diagnosed. Therapists will say, well, you don't meet criteria. And
the interesting thing is that so many people reach out to me over DMs,
(07:00):
over TikTok saying, my doctor said that there's
nothing wrong with me because I'm still functioning. Or they said, I don't meet criteria, but
there's something off. I can't put my finger on it. And so I
knew I was onto something, you know, why are we waiting for people to
break down, to be in significant distress, to have crisis in
order to address this? We can actually prevent this from happening. We
(07:21):
can prevent a mental health epidemic. And we don't have the providers.
There's just not enough psychiatrists. There's not enough therapists. There's not enough
mental health experts out there to meet this need. So let's try
and prevent this depression. Let's prevent this
substance abuse. Let's prevent this addiction to social
media, these negative coping mechanisms that people are using
(07:41):
to self-soothe something that they don't understand. And let's educate people,
let's democratize mental health and let them know that there's a name for this experience. And
in my research, when you give a name to someone's experience, right?
It's called affect labeling. You allow them to name the experience
that in itself decreases the amount of anxiety that they experience because
(08:02):
they're like, well, finally, I know what this is. Yeah, there's nothing wrong
with me. There's it's not like there's this unknown entity.
I know it now. And now I can do something about it. Sure. And somebody
sees it. And someone sees it. Yeah, I'm glad you
said that because many times it's like an invisible condition, right?
Like, you know, things that we experience because you can't see them.
(08:23):
It's not like someone who's having an asthma attack. They're gasping for
air and you're like, oh, my gosh, someone get this person help. When someone's struggling
in silence and they have these symptoms that they don't understand. and
they appear high functioning, they're not going to get help, support, empathy. In
fact, they feel as if they're a burden. They feel like when
they ask for help, that they're burdening others. But if they only knew
(08:44):
that feeling guilt and feeling like you're a burden, if they
only knew that's a symptom of depression, they would be like, wait, this is a symptom. That's
why I don't want to ask for help. That's why I feel guilty when others help me. That's
why I feel less than. So I think it's important to allow
this information to be put out there so people cannot not necessarily
self-diagnose, but self-recognize that this
(09:05):
is something that they could potentially get help for and then prevent this
Yeah. And I love what you said, too. I think it is a very common, especially for
our audience of high achieving women, their symptoms to be
dismissed, especially in the general practice setting,
as, you know, well, you're a middle-aged woman, it's perimenopause, or,
(09:26):
you know, well, you're a mom. And so it's very easy
to sort of attribute or chalk up those symptoms to life.
Yeah, it is. I mean, like, We as women push
through pain, it's a part of the experience. From
the time we start menstruating, it's like, well, everyone goes
(09:47):
through this, so what's the big deal? I just remember some
of my siblings having the worst cramps
and then just couldn't go to school. You go
to school the next day and it's like, really? You didn't come to school because of your
period? It was like this stigma. When now when we see these
like Instagram memes of like men putting this period stimulator
(10:08):
on and the cramp simulator and they're like rolling on the floor. I can't
stand up. It's like, yeah, it's validating because
sometimes the period will stop you. Sometimes you can't go to school.
Sometimes you can't go to work. But we're just told like, well, all
women go through it. So like, what's your problem? And it's just very
unfair. And it's the same for postpartum depression. Like
(10:30):
I'm right now conducting a clinical study on postpartum depression, looking
at novel medications for it, because, you know, thus far, there's only
one FDA approved medication for something that has gone on since
the beginning of the time, right, for us as humans, which is
really scary to think about. But you know, we're told, okay,
well, every so what mothers give birth, and you're
(10:50):
not the first to do it like, oh, or like, my mom had five kids,
and you're complaining with one. But you know, we know now that
like, physiologically, that there are hormonal changes that
happen in the body and brain, that some Mothers
experience things like mastitis, which is like infections and
breastfeeding. And then some of us have C-sections and
(11:11):
we have to get through that. Some of us can't even poop after
we give birth. These are really tough things. And there's this
little being, sometimes more than one if we have multiple, right?
that depends on us and then we're just told well you're supposed to look thin
right afterwards you're supposed to look like you enjoy being a mother you're supposed to
get through it when all of these things are happening to our
(11:31):
bodies and brains and it's really a form of gaslighting for women so
yeah we are the pros in pushing through pain and
there's no wonder that you know, women are twice
as likely to have depression and anxiety than men. Sure. Because all these
things happen to us and we're told we're supposed to just deal with it because women go through this.
And then not to mention menopause, which just hits many of us like a
(11:53):
like a ton of bricks, because, you know, most physicians
and I know I went to medical school and I got maybe one course
on menopause and women spend like about, you
know, a significant portion of their lives, like two thirds of their lives postmenopausal. So
like, why are we not addressing
this? Why are we, why do we know so little about something that all
(12:15):
people who have ovaries will eventually go through? Why does this happen? It's
just really appalling. And that's why I think having this information
available and having support in community and talking about
it openly without shame is important. You know, like, For
me, it warms my heart when I hear women saying like, yeah, like I
(12:35):
couldn't sleep last night. You know, I guess it's perimenopause or
like, you know, my ears are itching and things are happening to my
body. Well, I guess it's perimenopause. It's like we need to talk about it. We
need to support each other because. Really, the providers don't know
the professionals are just they just they just know so little and
we have to take it on ourselves again to educate ourselves so
that we know it's not in our heads that this is happening to us. This is real and
(13:01):
Yeah. And I, and I appreciate that you're putting that truth out into the world
because the reality is I, you know, I've never been a huge fan of social media,
but one of the things I learned as I started
my business is there's a huge number
of credible experts like yourself who are using
it as a platform to educate. Right. And I think that's the
(13:22):
most powerful tool for people to
consume information right from credible experts and
to be more informed, whether it's about mental health, whether it's
about menopause. Right. And there's less stigma around all of those things
Yes, there's definitely still stigma. And, you know, I think stigma will
(13:44):
always exist. But I think what
is changing is that people are more open. And
the more we talk about it, eventually, you know, they'll
just still be those pockets of stigma, but the majority of people will accept it.
And Yeah, I agree. There
may be a fair bit of like over diagnosis online, and
(14:07):
there's nothing wrong with people sharing their stories. But when you're not, you
know, trained in a certain area, and like, you haven't seen the treatment successes,
the treatment failures, you haven't worked in teams, and
you're making blanket statements about, you know, your one
experience and applying it to everyone that's dangerous, you know, but
I do think that there's a place for stories like people
(14:29):
sharing their stories is very effective. A lot of times you hear health professionals talking
and you're just going out because it's boring. You know, you're like, what are they talking about? They're using
big words. So having, you know, real stories
of people who've experienced what they've experienced and gone
through it and had, you know, failures in their own
lives. That's very powerful. Yeah. And I do agree
(14:50):
that we need more health care professionals online who are credible, but
they also need help. They need support and they need to know how to
do it properly. You know, because if you do, you're
reading a journal article and no one cares about what you're saying, then that
Yeah, for sure. And I want to go back to something that you mentioned
earlier, because I do think it affects a significant portion
(15:15):
of the high functioning women that are listening
and that, you know, I talk to and work with. And specifically, you
know, we know the obvious, quote unquote, a
more common coping mechanisms, right? Like substance
abuse, drinking drugs, eating. We
(15:35):
don't talk as much about overfunctioning or
busyness as a coping mechanism. And
I would love your take on that and specifically how
Well, one of the symptoms in PTSD, post-traumatic stress
(15:57):
disorder, which is what people are, you know, people think PTSD or
trauma responses like PTSD only happen in like combat veterans.
But we now know that that's not the case. If you've been through something
painful in your life, and let's say like an abusive relationship
or a medical trauma, um, you
know, you can go through things like avoidance,
(16:19):
like not wanting to think about it, not wanting to deal with the trauma because
you don't want to be reminded it causes too much physiological unrest or
like causes you to go into fight or flight. And so one
of the ways that you avoid trauma is by busying
yourself. You know, if you're too busy, to
sit and sit still and think about something painful, then that's
(16:40):
your trauma response, right? I see this a lot. And
I see this fear of slowing down that if you, um, you
know, take the time to just sit and sit, you know, think about things. There's
this real fear that people have unconscious or conscious that
they'll just break down, you know, like, so they busy themselves. They
just keep going, going, going. I see this
(17:00):
a lot with moms, you know, it's like. Some of the
people I've treated who've gone through terrible divorces and financial traumas,
and they're on their own. They just, they don't want to slow down because they're afraid
that what if I slow down? What if I break down? My kids need me, you
know, or I'll lose my job. So they just push, push, push. And then before they know
it, they have like high blood pressure, diabetes, they haven't been taking care of themselves. And
(17:22):
they're like, where did the time go? You know, how did this happen to me? But
you know, there's a real gift and slowing down.
Yes, you may slow down and you may cry. You may start
to feel depressed, but you start to feel again. You start to process that
trauma. You start to process those emotions. You start to
reflect on, well, how have I been maybe dealing with this in
(17:44):
an unhealthy way? How have I been coping in unhealthy ways? And
then you start to develop, hopefully, skills
that are more adaptive, that actually help you to process trauma
in ways that are sustainable. One
of the things that I use with my clients is mindfulness,
but different types of mindfulness that are newer
(18:07):
in existence, like metacognition, where they're not,
you know, trying to change their thoughts. They're actually trying
to live with that thought and say, like, OK, you know, these things happen. I
do worry, but let me process this in a healthy way and
learn how to live alongside my worries so that my worries don't dominate me,
so my worries don't make me do, do, do, do. Right. So my worries are
(18:29):
just there in the background, but I'm still taking care of myself. And
some of my clients just hold so much of their trauma
in their bodies that they don't realize that certain pain is related
to just being tense all the time. So some of them need a lot
of body work, a lot of movement work, because they're able
to release some of that through these more tangible,
(18:51):
more physical ways of getting
this stress out. Everyone's different. Others
are just not ready to talk yet. So we focus on
more of the behaviors like, well, you know, maybe
don't say yes to that project at work, because maybe you don't have to prove
yourself. Maybe you have guilt for being
(19:13):
late because you had to take your kid to the doctor, but you don't have
to say yes to that project and then make yourself even more
burdened. You know, like so a lot of intention in
the decisions that you're making. So that's everyone's different. But
the bottom line is that, you know, the busying themselves in
these ways is detrimental to them.
(19:34):
And you see this in children, they're busying themselves online. They're excessively
consuming social media and they can't, when
they take a break from the tablet or the device,
they just get restless and irritable. So what
I find is that when I'm treating the head of the household, be
it the mom or dad or whoever is the leader in
(19:57):
the household. When you work with them to slow the business down,
you see it being slowed in all of the family
unit. You see the child slowing down too. So because mom
isn't on her computer, you know, and during dinner, he like
the kid isn't on his device. Everyone's slowing down. Everyone's being intentional. Everyone's
being more present. And so that's why it's important to
(20:18):
address this because it is contagious. This busyness is contagious. This
high function depression is contagious. This anhedonia is contagious in
the same way that positive behaviors can be contagious. So,
Yeah, it's a great point. And I love to hear you say, you know,
think about that ripple effect. If you're a parent, how those
(20:38):
behaviors are serving you, how they're not serving you, but then
how are they impacting those around you and most importantly,
your family. So I think that's such great advice. And
I know you mentioned your happiness lab and you talk a lot about the science of
happiness. So I would love to, you know, if you could expand upon that a
Well, I've developed a system called the five V's. And
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what I found is that we all have this
idea that whatever it is, if you if I ask my
my patients, my clients to imagine what happiness is, some of them will imagine,
you know, like finally finishing their medical school
and getting, you know, like a job and making a lot of money.
And then some of them will imagine Um, finally
(21:23):
finding a partner that gets them and then starting a family others,
it's like. Maintaining a certain amount of success as an
entrepreneur, but then what I found is that. And
what the research shows is that when you have these ideas of happiness. And
you're living for the future of happiness. You end up, once
you get those goals, you're still searching. You're still, OK, well, now
(21:44):
I want this and now I want that. And I've I've experienced
that, too. Like for me, it was when I finally graduate medical school,
when I finally get this position, when I finally get this marriage, when
I finally get this house. But then I had to have a baby and then, you
know, more. It's just like so much. And I was also down
that path, which led me to reflect on my own personal
experiences with high function depression, like just pushing through and not really being
(22:07):
present. So the five V's is about finding
points of happiness in the now. How do
you find happiness today? Because tomorrow really isn't promised. And
the first one is validation. So many of us, we
don't acknowledge how we feel because we push through our pain. So first,
I want you to be real with yourself and start acknowledging your feelings. Many
(22:30):
people with high functioning depression experience something called alexithymia, where
they don't know how they feel. So sometimes, you
know, in my book, I'll mention like, there's this list of emotions. So I want people to
start getting familiar with emotions. I treat children and adults.
So with the children I treat, I treat There's a
face chart that we use to identify emotions, but sometimes I use that same
(22:51):
face chart in my adult patients because they forget what,
you know, the range of emotions that they're capable of. You know, they're binary
at times, sad or happy, right? But no, there are other things. And
the reason that's important is because we now know from
science that happiness is not just one feeling.
It is a plethora of sensations. So like when you're feeling tired,
(23:12):
getting rest. When you're feeling thirsty, drinking water,
like feeling quenched. When you're feeling lonely, being connected.
These are the points that make up happiness, right? It's not
just one idea. So it's a real reframe for people. So
it's important to, number one, validate how you feel, but many
people have a hard time just even naming an emotion. So we work on that first. The
(23:35):
second is expressing how you feel, venting. And venting can
be to a therapist, it could be to a faith leader, it could be to a friend,
a family member. It could be to yourself, like just
saying it out loud in a mirror. It could be writing in
a journal. And for me, I vent, if I'm feeling a
certain way, I'll make like a meme or I'll post on social media
and I express it that way. But it could be creative. You can vent through, you
(23:58):
know, your singing or artistic expression, like
drawing. And the third is value. So what do
you really, what really gives you purpose in
life? What really gives you meaning in life? And be real
with this because A lot of times people think
that, oh, like I value money or I value success
(24:19):
or accolades, but at the end of the day, if you were to
be on your deathbed, what. would you do if you could wish
for five more minutes of something, what would you be doing? And I bet it
wouldn't be, well, I just need five more minutes. I
just wish I had gotten a degree or something like that. Most people won't
say that. They'll say things like, I wish I had more time with the ones I loved. I wish I
(24:39):
spent more time doing the things I really enjoyed. Sometimes
I have to really re-educate people about what their true
values are because they get lost along the way. And in my book, I talk about how you
can identify that. I was at a conference recently and I was having
a discussion with a woman who said, I don't know what I value anymore. So, you
know, I just briefly went over an exercise with her to try and figure out, you
(25:02):
know, where along the way did she lose herself? It turns out
she couldn't remember parts of her childhood because she had blocked it out. And
there was an unresolved trauma that had gotten in the way of her really staying
connected to what she really valued. And then the next V is
vital. So these are things that edify your body and
brain that really support the only body you
(25:23):
will ever have, the vehicle that carries you through
life that we neglect and many times treat poorly. So
for me, the area that I wish I was better
at is sleep. I wish that I could really work on
my sleep a bit more. But, you know, sleeping better, eating
foods that feed your brain, Six years ago, I shifted
(25:44):
my diet and I started eating fish every day. And it's really changed my
memory. It's I feel better. I feel less achy
with in terms of like eating anti-inflammatory foods. I eat blueberries every
day. So really feeding your brain with anti-inflammatory and
brain healthy foods. I'm getting movement and
(26:05):
I'm very intentional about working out as often as
possible because it makes me feel happy even on days when I don't want to. I get
some movement in. And then really having a healthier technology
relationship. So part of the vitals that I think doctors are
going to start asking about more is like, how much time do you spend on screens?
Because we know that that's not healthy for developing brains, and it's not healthy for
(26:27):
adults either. And then a part of that vitals
that I ask about as a therapist, and I include in my book is your relationships, because
the number one predictor of your longevity is the quality of your relationships.
And then the last fee is vision. What are you celebrating? What
are you looking forward to? Many times, people
who push through pain don't acknowledge their wins. So I really teach
(26:50):
people to celebrate their small wins. It doesn't have to be grand.
It could be getting your kid to school on time. It could be getting one
thing done for that day. you know, could be making your bed or
just doing one thing on your to-do list, but also planning
moments in the future to celebrate with the values that
you actually love. So it's carving out that time and
(27:11):
being intentional about how much time you spend in
the future so that you keep moving forward. You have
things to look forward to in the future to move forward instead of being stuck in
the past. So these five V's are based on evidence-based
research based on positive psychology and elements of
cultural psychiatry. And in my book, I talk about how different
(27:32):
cultures do this, how they, you can make this really,
basically honoring your ancestors. I talk about parts
of Europe, Asia, Africa, how we all have the five E's.
within our cultural language, we just forgot about it.
You know, mental health has always been a part of our history,
you know, but we just forgot about it and how we can honor
(27:59):
Absolutely. Such a powerful framework. And I know you do have
a book that is launching in March of 2025 called
It's now April, April, April, April, April,
2025, which we can pre-order now. So is there anything else you'd
like people to know about your book and also where
(28:22):
You can pre-order the book on my website, anywhere
that books are sold. It's sold in audio and hardcover. The
hardcovers are really what I'm promoting because
there are grids in there. There are tools in there that, you know, you can use
for yourself, for your family members. There's something in there for every
age. I am a psychiatrist that treats all age groups and
(28:43):
all generations. And I do have pre-order bonuses.
So if you pre-order, there are bonuses that you can
get. There are audio soundbites
from world-renowned experts that all have gone through high-functioning
periods where they weren't acknowledging their pain and they talk about how they got through it.
(29:03):
And then I also have these virtual and in-person meetups in
my happiness lab. So we recently had a bunch of High
school students roll through the lab and they learned about the five V's in real time. We're
having adult meetups. We're taking the happiness lab on the road
so that, you know, you're not just watching something or reading something. You're
actually learning how to practice it and utilize it in your day
(29:24):
to day life. And it hopefully tailors to the
science of your happiness. And that's what is called the science of your happiness lab, because we
know that everyone has their own roadmaps. We're trying to help people to
come up with these individualized plans so they have sustainable happiness.
Love that. And so speaking of happiness, you know, we talk about success
on this podcast and redefining success. And so I would love to know
(29:50):
Well, you know, in 2020, I was sitting at my computer in my
lab like I am right now. And that's
the horns outside New York
City. But I was giving
a talk to a major hospital system and really
helping people navigate feelings of fears and anxiety because
(30:12):
of the unknown of the pandemic. And I found myself struggling
with this feeling of blah, numbing. And
I was like, halfway through the talk, I was like, I think I'm depressed. And it was like a
realization for me. And I'm a board certified psychiatrist. I
have like degrees from Columbia, Duke. I just was
shocked. I was like, how did I not know I was depressed? It kind of stuck up on me. So
(30:34):
I had to really redefine my own happiness because I had just gotten into
this prestigious group of women who were, it's
a women's collaborative at Columbia University where I went to medical school
and I'm chair of women in medicine there. And I just gotten all these, I was getting all
these press interviews and I was getting all these accolades and I just
felt like numb. I was like, okay, what's next? What's next? And
(30:56):
anhedonia stuck up on me. And so I had to really change
the way that I approached life because I had all the things on
my checklist. I had the marriage, had the kid, had the house, had the lab,
had the successful career, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled.
I wasn't feeling a sense of purpose. And I was just feeling blah.
And I had to reframe because I wasn't really taking care of myself
(31:18):
using the five V's. And that's why I ended up developing this,
because I think this can happen to anyone. Like I mentioned not just people
who are high achieving on paper or people who just push through pain
to show for others. You know, we just neglect ourselves. We just, you
know, don't even validate our own experiences as
humans. So I really wanted to get back to the basics and
(31:39):
make something that was accessible to everyone
so that we all have the possibility to achieve this,
you know, this happiness that is individualized. And that's why I
have these experiences called the science of your happiness, because I
really do believe that we all have the roadmap within.
(32:00):
Amazing. And I think thank you for sharing your story. I think it is so
relatable. And I think to your point, when we can be vulnerable and
share our experience, it can help others through their own
journey. And so, you know, so many women can relate to that.
You know, the work I do, I refer to it as the arrival fallacy,
right? Chasing after that next goal, that milestone, you get there and then
(32:21):
you're not celebrating the win. You're thinking about, OK, what's next? Right.
Thinking that that's going to bring you satisfaction, fulfillment, happiness.
But it doesn't. And so I think, you know, if you find yourself getting
trapped in that cycle, kind of pausing and asking yourself, you
know, what is it you're striving for? What is it we're seeking? What is it we're
(32:43):
Yeah, and also just like how to reflect and find that time in
life when you are actually feeling fulfilled and purposeful. And
I remembered it was back when I was with my siblings. My
dad is a pastor and we grew up in the church and he would pull us on stage and we
do these skits. And so I had to be like, you know, OK, let
me try doing that again. And I did that. I started doing skits on
(33:03):
social media and teaching about mental health and it just took off. Really,
when you do invest in what you truly value, it may not lead
to any money, but that wealth of happiness is
worth more than anything. So that's what you really
need to reflect on and try to find what you valued in
life and how did you get lost along the way. But you can find yourself
(33:28):
Is there anything else you would like to tell our listeners, one thing you'd like them to think
about doing differently or changing after listening to
I think whenever I speak with people out when I'm doing public
talks and speaking engagements, they're always like, well, how do I, how
do I get back to that? I just really need help. I encourage them to
take my anhedonia quiz. Um, it's on my
(33:50):
website and it's free and try to find the points
where you're really lacking. Pleasure. I think we tend to, when
you answer the quiz and you find things that you're, you are still enjoying, people tend
to just keep doing more of those things. That's important, but
also look at the things that you stopped enjoying and consider reengaging
in that. So one of the questions on the quiz is like, like, I
(34:12):
don't enjoy being as intimate with my partner anymore. So
like, you don't have to full on get into it with your partner. But one
of the things you can do is test the waters is, you know, just gently like
cuddling with them or just rubbing the smaller back or doing something where
you're basically exposing yourself to the idea of
doing the thing again, right? If it's, if it's art, and some people used
(34:33):
to like going to museums and looking at art, you don't have to go to like the MoMA, you don't
have to go to like, plan a day at the museum, but just try
like looking up art on your phone, you know, like, try to engage in things
that you used to enjoy slowly. Because I think we
tend to do what we're good at, or if want to keep doing what we already have
because it makes us feel good, but gently exposing
(34:54):
yourself to the things that you once enjoyed will actually retrain your
brain that you can enjoy them again. And that's one of the things I encourage
Such great advice. I love that. And Dr. Judith, where can our listeners learn
DrJudithJoseph.com, and you can follow me
on all socials at DrJudithJoseph. The only
(35:17):
one that I'm not at DrJudithJoseph on is Facebook. So
that one is DrJudithJosephMDMBA. I don't know
what I was thinking with that, but you can find me, you Google me, DrJudithJoseph.
Amazing. I want to thank you so much for being here, for sharing your insights, your
story, and your expertise. And thank you for the work that you're doing.
(35:41):
And of course, you can visit my website at GiaLacqua.com. Reach out on Instagram
at GiaLacqua. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. This
is Gia signing off with gratitude for your time and energy. Our mic drops, but
the movement continues. Until next time, your next chapter is
That concludes another empowering episode of Your Future Starts Now.
Before we wrap up, I want to thank this incredible community of high-achieving women.
(36:04):
Your energy, resilience, and commitment to growth are the driving force
behind what we do. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate
it, leave a review, and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Your
feedback fuels our mission to empower high-achieving women just like
you. And of course, share Your Future Starts Now with the extraordinary women
in your life who are also on a journey of healing and empowerment. Connect
(36:26):
with us on social media, share your thoughts, let us know what topics you'd like to
explore in future episodes. Stay connected on Instagram at
GiaLacqua. I encourage you to carry the energy of this conversation
into your day and keep on supporting the incredible women around you.
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