December 26, 2024 • 42 mins
This week on Wild Tails, we’re joined by Madison, better known as @zoogirlq, a passionate wildlife advocate with hands-on experience in conservation and animal care. Madison’s journey has taken her to South Africa, where she worked with Vets Go Wild, learning essential skills for wildlife veterinary care in the field.
In this episode, she also recounts an unforgettable adventure involving the transportation of an eland—a massive and unpredictable antelope—where things didn’t go quite as planned. Tune in for an exciting behind-the-scenes look at what it’s like to work with wildlife in challenging situations.
Whether you’re a conservation enthusiast or love hearing incredible animal stories, this is an episode you don’t want to miss!
Follow Madison on Instagram: Zoogirlq
Follow Wild Tails podcast in Instagram @Wildtailspod
Follow Wild Tails Podcast on Bluesky
Email the show at wildtailspod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:18):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) And welcome in to the Wild Tales Podcast.
This is your host.
I'm Mike Bona.
And thank you for tuning in if this is your first time.
I hope you enjoy.
And if you're a regular listener, thank you for your continuing support.
This is the last podcast of 2024.
I hope you had a wonderful year, and I hope your 2025 is even better.
(00:40):
I have a wonderful guest in this episode, an old friend.
We used to be co-workers, and now she's gone her own way to take a
different path.
She's kind of doing a little bit of everything, currently in vet school,
talking about a wonderful trip she had recently, working with conservation vets
out in the wilds of Africa.
(01:01):
And she's also well known for her Comic Con visits and her cosplays and costume
making.
She is very talented in that aspect.
Her name is Madison.
She goes by Zoo Girl Q on all the social media, so please follow her.
And we had a lot of fun chatting.
We had a delightful conversation.
(01:22):
She told a wonderful and exciting story of, well, you'll hear, it involves an
eland not cooperating during a medical procedure, which sometimes animals tend
to do.
But you know, she's a professional.
She surrounded herself with professionals.
They got through it, and you'll hear all about it.
So let me just stop rambling.
We'll get into the story time, and please let me welcome Madison.
(01:52):
So, Madison, thank you for joining the podcast.
We've known each other for many years.
We used to work together as zookeepers, and now you're across the world in
Scotland, going to vet school.
You do conservation projects, working down in Africa, and you also have a huge
following on social media doing cosplay and going to Comic Cons in different
(02:16):
countries.
Where do you find the time?
Do you even sleep?
Short answer, no.
No, I do.
I do try to get a healthy six to eight hours of sleep every night.
It doesn't always happen, but I do expend all of my energy.
Absolutely.
I never know what time zone I'm in.
(02:36):
So that's a fun thing about me.
Fun fact.
That does sound fun.
I see one of those, is that your Charizard outfit in the background?
I have Dragonite right there.
I have my Cubone.
I have my little hood for my Ewok.
And those are just the cosplays I have on display in my little streaming room.
And you make those yourself?
I have boxes and boxes.
(02:58):
Yes, I do make them myself.
I had to learn how to do pretty much everything that cosplay requires.
So I learned how to work with thermoplastics.
I learned how to sew.
I learned how to do foamsmithing, molding, 3D printing, all that good stuff.
Wow, it's all self-taught.
It's a lot of work.
Yeah, it's all self-taught.
(03:19):
I mean, I did have friends show me how to do things, but basically worked on
the skills by myself.
Is that how you're going through vet school too?
Is that all being self-taught?
Yes.
I don't know if you've been in vet school or any school actually, but they
really just give you the information.
No, that's not what I meant.
I take it back.
I'm sorry.
No, the joke.
(03:40):
I mean, honestly, though, they really do just give you the information and then
they're like, good luck.
And you're like, all right, I'm supposed to be a doctor by myself.
You know, that's how I felt because I actually did go to school, believe it or
not.
But yeah, I went through the Morpark program at the America's Teaching Zoo.
I worked with animals in the zoo there for two years.
(04:02):
I felt like I got an education, but then I started working at a real zoo
and I was on my own.
Yeah.
And it's like, you know, it's a small zoo at the school.
I worked with, you know, small primates and goats and stuff.
And then I got a job at a real zoo and was put in charge of
this huge, you know, black rhino.
I got like two days of training and then like, all right, you're on your own.
(04:24):
I'm like, wait, I'm on my own?
You trust me to know what I'm doing with this huge animal?
Right.
Even with the education, it's like once you're on your own in the real world,
you feel kind of like, do I belong here?
Do I actually know what I'm doing?
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
And 20 years later, I still don't know what I'm doing.
I mean, do any of us know what we're doing or do we just get really
(04:45):
good at pretending?
We're all just faking it.
Fake it till you make it, right?
Fake it till you make it.
Or retire first.
That's the worst part.
I remember when I started at the zoo and then all of a sudden I was
responsible for high school students and volunteers.
And I had to like teach them what I had just learned myself while I was
volunteering.
So that was fun.
(05:05):
But yeah, you get really good at it as you grow up.
You get really good at faking it till you make it.
And then people just think that you know what you're doing and you just go
through life like that.
Exactly.
Well, I think we could do a whole nother episode, although it's not really
animal related, talking about all your costumes and cosplay.
But we're here to talk about wildlife, animals.
(05:27):
And recently you took a trip to Africa, I believe you went to, was it Botswana
is where you ended up?
Yeah.
So that was just part of the trip.
I flew in to South Africa at the end of, was it the end of June
or the beginning of June?
I think it was the beginning of June.
And I spent two weeks on the Eastern Cape of South Africa doing the Vets Go
(05:51):
Wild course, which if for all those that don't know what the Vets Go Wild
course is, it's basically this like 16 day experience for vet students that's
run by William Folds, who is a wildlife conservation and management
veterinarian on the Eastern Cape of South Africa.
He's done absolutely wonderful work in rhino conservation.
(06:15):
He is part of Saving the Survivors, which is a wonderful, what would you call
it, like a program?
Yeah, program.
Yeah.
Well, I mean like Saving the Survivors.
So anyways, it was a group of veterinarians that actually were able to save the
first rhino from a poaching incident.
(06:37):
So the rhino was poached, they took her face off, her entire horn, she was
found alive and Will Folds along with I think one or two other veterinarians
were able to work together to actually save her life.
So they started a foundation called Saving the Survivors, which now works to
protect a lot of rhino suffering from poaching incidents in South Africa and I
(07:01):
think like across other parts of Africa, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I believe he works in several other countries and yeah, Will Folds, he's
very, if you're in the industry, you know that name.
He's very well known as a conservationist, as a vet, wildlife vet, and he's
done amazing work.
And to be able to save a rhino that has been poached, has been shot and
its horn removed and those horns, they cut, I mean, it's brutal.
(07:23):
I would not recommend anyone looking for any photos or videos.
It is very disturbing to watch and to be able to treat an animal that's gone
through that horrific event and have it survive and I believe has also produced
offspring since that horrific event as well.
I mean, it's added to the rhino population.
That is an incredible story.
(07:44):
I got to reach out.
I wonder if he'd be interested in doing a podcast.
And you know what's actually crazy is he, well, I guess it's not that crazy,
but he is an incredible, incredible storyteller.
Like while I was down there spending time, he actually talked to us about rhino
conservation, about Tandy specifically, about another cow that he wasn't able
to save.
And he, the way that he tells the story and the way that he's connected with
(08:09):
those animals and is able to like connect with people through those stories is
really, really remarkable.
Like I was there sobbing in front of him, which is, I guess to be expected,
it is like rhino conservation is such a like emotional thing, right?
It's not just like sad and angry anymore.
It's like all of the emotions.
(08:31):
Like there's hope, there's anger, there's fear, there's sadness, there's
frustration.
There's just all of these things that come up in these stories.
And Will is just one of the most amazing humans in all the work that he's
done between the veterinary aspects to the political aspects, et cetera, et
cetera.
Yes.
So I was able to spend 16 days on a course led by Will Foulds where
(08:54):
he, the course is focused on game capture and essentially like the relocation
or the veterinary care of different wildlife species in the Eastern Cape of
South Africa surrounding conservation efforts.
And then after those 16 days, I went to Botswana, Namibia and had a little fun
doing other conservation things, but not so much vet work.
(09:16):
So it was it was a five week Africa extravaganza.
Fantastic.
So what did you learn?
What are some of the things you experienced while you're out there?
Oh, God, what didn't I experience?
So the course is basically set up.
There is I forget how many students, but I want to say there were like 12
ish veterinary students of all different ages.
(09:40):
We even had a not all different ages, but all different like stages in their
veterinary careers.
We even had a registered vet tech from Scotland.
So there were two people from coming from Scotland, me and this other girl, and
then a few Bristol vets and a few, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And the first few days were a lot of fun.
(10:00):
We did a lot of game drives around Amakala, which is Wilfold's basically home
reserve where he I think he owns a share of it.
And and then we also did lectures.
So in our lectures, we basically learned what wildlife procedures look like.
Right.
So a veterinary procedure in a zoo is definitely different than a veterinary
(10:25):
procedure in Africa.
And I know that you have personally experienced that as well.
We were even lucky enough to do one giraffe or sorry, we did two giraffe, but
we did one giraffe day.
And it's kind of like the wild, wild west out there.
Like, I'm thankful that I am from a background of working with large animals.
But there were a lot of students on this.
(10:49):
On this program that had only had small animal experience, and I think it was
like a huge game changer for them.
Oh, I bet.
I bet their eyes were just wide, just popping out the whole time.
Well, it was crazy to me because it was a lot of these girls first time
to South Africa as well.
And obviously I had been there.
I think it was my sixth or seventh time spending time doing anti-poaching or,
(11:12):
you know, whatever in South Africa.
Pretty much the first day they threw us on, they took us to a reserve and
we were doing what species was it?
I think it was kudu.
I think we were doing kudu relocation.
So we had to relocate a bunch of kudu bulls to a very large, large antelope
in Africa.
And giant, large, giant antelope, large, giant spiral horns, spiral horns.
(11:36):
Yes.
Yes.
They are gorgeous, but very big and potentially dangerous animals to work with.
And you know what else I learned is they take like crazy amounts of drugs to
knock down.
So you actually use more drugs in a kudu bull than you would a buffalo.
That's I didn't know that.
That's I don't know that you.
Nobody needs to know that, I guess, but they.
(11:58):
Well, now my listeners know that and they will use that information.
Yes.
So they're very sexual animals.
Eddie, we get to this, we get to this reserve and we literally all hop on
the back of a bucky.
And it's like me, three other girls and like six ground team guys.
And I'm like, there's too many people on the back of this bucky, first of all.
(12:20):
And that was like that was like these girls first African experience.
We're like driving through the bush on the back of the bucky, like, you know
how it like you bounce up if you're not holding on, you're like hitting your
head on branches or like almost flying out of the bucky.
It was it was insane experiences.
It's a rodeo.
It is definitely a rodeo.
And so that was the first day.
(12:41):
And then every day from there, we basically had a different animal procedure.
And Flynn, sorry, my dog is like asking for attention right now.
So every day from there, we have a different animal procedure.
But the craziest person and there are a lot of crazy things that happen.
Like I even got to shoot a dart gun out of a helicopter, which was insane
in and of itself.
(13:02):
It was an incredible experience for a vet student.
But the craziest thing that happened, we had one day.
Do you know what an eland is?
Yes, another large antelope with very large, large.
Yeah, another large animal antelope with very large horns, the largest
antelope, which is very important for the story.
These animals are seventeen hundred kilograms or pounds.
(13:27):
They might be seventeen hundred.
No, no, I think.
Yes.
Well, that's about right.
About seventeen hundred pounds or kilograms.
That'd be pounds.
So about what that'd be about eight, eight hundred, eight hundred kilograms,
kilograms.
All I know is that they're heavier than horses, right?
They're huge, like absolutely huge.
(13:48):
Just solid animals.
And we.
I'm saying seventeen hundred kilograms would be about four thousand pounds.
Are they that big?
Four thousand pounds.
I'm going to look.
Oh, my God.
We got to look this up.
How big is an eland?
How much does an eland weigh?
OK, so, yeah, the males, which we are moving males, are four hundred to nine
(14:12):
hundred and forty kilograms.
Yeah.
So about seventeen, eighteen hundred pounds.
So about seventeen, eighteen hundred pounds.
OK, and we have satisfied our American and the rest of the world listeners.
I get confused.
They're about five point two feet tall at the shoulder.
So just keep that in mind.
They're like kind of squatty, right?
(14:32):
Like I'm five, three and three quarters for those measuring.
So they're about my height at the shoulder and seventeen hundred pounds.
Anyways, so we're we're planning for this day.
Right.
And it's really in the hands of the vet students.
They split us up into teams and they were like, you guys figure out the drugs
like you figure out whatever.
(14:53):
And then what happens is that we all are responsible for like an animal.
Right.
So there were three eland that we had to move.
So there were three or.
Yeah, let's say there were three teams, teams of like three or four students
and a veterinarian.
But the veterinarian is in the helicopter, like darting the animals.
(15:15):
And we're on the ground team going to the animal.
So basically, we come up with the drug doses, tell the vet, the vet then darts
the animal.
And we are on the back of the bucky, like going to find that animal, get
it on the back of the truck, which, by the way, I don't know whose idea
it was to put a seventeen hundred pound animal on the back of when I say
(15:37):
a bucky like, you know what a bucky is.
But just so everybody understands, it's like a Toyota.
What's the small Toyota?
No, sorry.
It's like a Ford Ranger.
Right.
Tiny, tiny truck.
And the tiny truck that has like six people in the back because we're the
ground team going to pick up this animal.
Right.
So our vet goes up, they locate the eland.
(16:00):
We're like talking on the radio.
She darts the eland, the eland takes off.
Right.
So there's this excitatory phase when they get hit with drugs.
Everybody's like, when a zoo animal gets out, why don't they just start it?
Right.
And we have this conversation all the time.
It's like there's the excitatory phase of induction of anesthesia where the
animal just loses and runs.
(16:22):
Right.
And then you might lose the animal.
So the problem is she darts this eland and he starts going straight for Berbin.
And so we're trying we're sending all the vehicles around to try to cut him off
from going into the ravine.
And he's just heading straight.
And, you know, there's yelling on the radios, et cetera.
(16:44):
We're flying to get to this animal.
We lose him.
We lose Simon and we all hop out of the bucky.
Finally, get on foot, find him in the ravine.
I don't know how to explain this to you, but he's like.
If you imagine a forest and cliffs and then like as you're going down the
(17:05):
cliffs, there's like all these little like cattywampus like sides with trees
and whatever slightly falls down in and then gets like caught upside down, like
on his back in between two bushes, like going down the side of a mountain.
Right.
OK, not the most convenient position.
No.
(17:25):
And on top of it, you're like, OK, if this animal just lays like that, you
know, you have a ruminant that is now on its back.
But, you know, in a in a perfect world, in a zoo, right, you would be
able to fast an animal and blah, blah, blah and not have to worry about all
of these things.
But now you're concerned because he's sedated on his back, like corkscrewed
(17:47):
around a bush.
And we have to figure out how to get this seventeen hundred pound animal, like
not only upright, but like now up the side of this hill.
And we're like six girls and five guys.
Easy.
So super easy.
They have this thing in Africa where they say, oh, we need all the strong men.
And unfortunately, when they say we need strong men, it's like a bunch of women
(18:11):
built like me, which I am a strong man.
I do identify as a strong man, but it's not always.
The most ideal situation, so we find this, we find this island and we start
tying ropes, right, because that's the only way we're going to be able to kick
him over.
And then the big unfortunate part about this whole situation is we now have to
(18:35):
wake this animal up enough that he can stand up and we can like guide him
to walk back up the hill, right, because we can't carry him, but not enough
that he's just going to pull through all the ropes and bulldoze us.
And my heart rate is increasing just hearing this.
So this is like my third day, right, as like working as a wildlife
(18:57):
veterinarian.
And mind you, my third day, I just finished my second year of vet school.
I should not be responsible for this.
But the vet is up in the helicopter being like, everything's fine.
Right.
And we're like, yeah, everything's fine.
So you have an animal, you're estimating the weight, which leads to an
(19:18):
estimation of the drugs, knock it down.
And then you have to estimate the exact amount of reversal.
So it wakes up a little bit.
OK, easy.
Continue.
And that's actually a really good point.
I'm glad you brought that up.
We can talk about that in the resolution.
But so we get there and we do another another veterinarian gets to us.
(19:39):
So we have somebody on the ground that is a vet that is a fully fledged,
like graduated, is working for Wilfold's vet.
So we feel better.
But so we get some of the there's a partial reversal.
We administer the partial reversal.
We have all the ropes up and now we have to like flip this animal.
He starts to wake up.
Right.
So we're trying to flip him over and pull him up.
(20:02):
We have a head rope and a butt rope.
And so everybody's on a rope just like shoving, trying to pull this eland up a
hill.
And we finally get him walking up the hill.
People are like falling down, like sliding down in the mud.
You know, it's it's it's the wild, wild west out there is there really is no,
no good way to explain this.
But people are tripping over ropes like there's people that don't necessarily
(20:26):
completely speak English.
So we're all just trying to like yell at each other and give commands and like
work together.
And it's it's it's a lot it's a lot of fun, but it's a lot.
So we finally get this animal up to like the place where we can then work
on it, like a flat ground where the bucky can be.
And then we have to knock it back down.
(20:47):
Right.
So we can then put it on the stretcher and load it into the back of
the car.
So and this is where the vet students get to, like, be in charge of everything.
And if you know, like how easy it is, like, let's talk about how easy it
is to just give an IV injection to a horse, right?
Like you can just give it in the jugular vein.
(21:09):
The veins are huge, whatever.
Eland, not the same like Eland, you're giving IV injections in the ear vein.
And mind you, this animal is like half sedated, but not really.
So like kind of reactive, but also just like big and stupid and and, you know,
not acting right and kind of like waking up and wanting to get away and then
(21:31):
being like, oh, wait, just kidding.
I'm a little drunk, you know, like and as this girl, one of my friends is
trying to get a needle in its ear to give it more ketamine to put it
back to sleep so that we can get it on the vehicle, et cetera, et cetera.
So we have people holding it on ropes from both ends and we're trying to get
this ear vein.
Right.
And you're like holding the ear.
(21:53):
You have somebody like I'm holding the front of the animal, like somebody's
holding off the vein.
She's trying to get this like tiny little needle in this tiny ear vein in this
giant Eland.
And that was a whole scene in and of itself.
We finally get the drugs in, we knock it down.
And that and that's when I realized I don't think I really thought through how
difficult this was going to be.
(22:14):
But like we have this animal on the ground.
Right.
And then we have to get it onto the steel stretcher.
So we're like it's taking, I don't know, 10 people to all fit in and like
get hands underneath this animal to roll it onto a stretcher.
So we finally do that.
And then we have to just hand lift, hand lift it.
(22:36):
A 70.
It's huge.
Into the back of a Ford Ranger.
And everybody's yelling, everybody's like shoulder to shoulder trying to get in
there.
And I'm like, I'm in there and I'm like squished between two guys.
And I'm literally like, I don't I can't even get ground underneath me to like
use any of the muscles that I actually have.
(22:58):
Like, I don't know how people contort themselves and like use all of their
musculature to lift these animals.
It seemed impossible.
It seemed impossible.
But we somehow did it.
Nothing's impossible.
Apparently nothing is impossible.
We somehow did it.
And we got him into the back of the car.
And then me, the team of like three other girls and then a couple of guys
(23:20):
got into the back of the Bucky with this animal.
And we were transferring it then to a trailer to then take it somewhere else.
Right.
So we're riding in the back of this truck, essentially, with the eland in the
truck asleep, ideally.
And we go over the ravine, we start to get out and we're hauling like we're
(23:43):
literally hauling ass, bouncing all over the place, et cetera, et cetera.
And all of a sudden his skin starts twitching.
And I was like, um, I was like, he needs more ketamine.
And the girls were like, what, what?
And I was like, he needs more ketamine.
I don't know.
I'm stupid.
I'm not, I don't know what I was thinking, but I like laid my body of
(24:06):
him thinking that my little like one hundred and fifty pound body is going to
hold down this animal.
I don't know.
Yeah, anyways, so we had a girl on each ear trying to hit a vein and
mind you, it's it's just impossible.
You're in a moving vehicle.
Well, I'm like tapping the top of the truck and I'm like, hey, like we need
to stop.
We stopped the truck and they're just trying to go, trying to go, trying to go,
(24:29):
trying to get some analgesics into this animal.
And I'm laying on top of him and all of a sudden ear twitch.
And I was like, oh, no.
I was like, you guys, we got to hit it.
Like you have to get the drugs in him now.
Yeah.
Another ear twitch.
And then he literally just stands up, just flies me off.
(24:49):
I like hit the side.
So these trucks have like sidebars kind of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I like hit the sidebar and then I start yelling.
I was just like, oh, everybody get out.
Everybody get out.
Everybody.
I like turn around.
And this guy, one of our ground team behind me literally is like pinned.
The island is leaning towards us.
(25:09):
He's pinned between the island and the vehicle on his like chin.
And he like you could tell he already tried to dip out of the truck.
But like the island is holding and he's like yelling.
And I was like, oh, my God.
So I like grab the side of the of the bucky of the truck.
And I like booty pops the island off of this guy.
(25:30):
This guy fall onto the ground.
I have another student there that was standing there like this, like eyes open,
like not knowing what to do.
I was like, get out of the vehicle.
Get out.
Get out.
I had another guy coming from the ground in a vehicle that was following us,
like lifting students out of the vehicle.
There's a whole video of this.
I essentially like knock the island off this guy and then dove head first out
(25:55):
of the vehicle.
And this island's just like standing up in the back of this truck.
And I was like, oh, my God, this is a worst case scenario.
This is worst case scenario.
This animal is way too big to be in this truck anyways.
And we literally had six people in the back of the vehicle with it.
And he just wakes up, just wakes up in the back of the vehicle.
(26:16):
It was insane.
That's crazy.
That is insane.
That is so resolution.
Did he jump out, run off?
Did you guys were able to sedate him again?
I was expecting that he was going to jump out and run off, but thankfully he
didn't.
Like once we all got out of the vehicle, he just stood up and he was
blindfolded.
So he just was basically like.
(26:37):
What's happening?
And then a vet came from another vehicle and like got on top of the vehicle
and was able to sedate him to go down again.
And thankfully he did not wake up a second time.
So we then were able to just like get him to where we needed to get
him to and load him into the moving vehicle.
But what was crazy is that fun that was traumatizing in and of itself.
(27:02):
Granted, like I have been in bad situations like that before.
But I was stressed because the rest of the vet students were panicking.
Like it was a full blown.
I have never seen so much panic in one moment.
And I was like, oh, my God, somebody is going to get hurt.
Somebody did get stomped on.
Like this one girl had to go over the top of the truck.
(27:25):
Like it was just it was quite an experience.
And the worst part is that it happened again.
Like it happened with the second eland and the second eland actually like
jumped out of the vehicle.
And mind you, this was not my eland.
So I was watching this from afar.
But he actually woke up and ended up jumping out of the truck, which is crazy.
And then I can't remember if it happened to the third one or not.
(27:49):
But we had a discussion after and I had never thought about this.
And this was a good learning experience.
But what you were saying is like, you know, we were visualizing how much the
animal weighed, how much drugs to use, et cetera, et cetera.
And the doses that we were using are correct.
And any like had we given any more knockdown drugs or anything like we could
(28:13):
have killed the animal like it's what we were doing is correct.
But Will speculates that these animals are just so fat that the volume of just
like the drugs are not being metabolized properly because he was like, this
happens every year.
And I was like, if it happens every year, why don't you warn us?
(28:36):
It would have been nice just to know.
It's probably more fun on his part just to see your reaction.
I mean, that's the thing.
It's a good learning experience.
I will be prepared in the future to just expect that if I ever work with
eland ever again.
But yeah, it was crazy.
They're the most unsuspecting looking animals.
They're like giant cow antelope, essentially.
(28:59):
Yeah.
And it's it's easy to, you know, to not like not panic, especially with your
first time.
It's like that's your instinct to panic.
But yeah, that's a field you want to get into.
You got to expect your anticipate the craziest things that happen because
you're right.
This is a completely different world than in a zoo setting.
You know, in a zoo, you're in a confined space.
(29:21):
You can sometimes have an animal willingly walk into a crate to be confined, be
injected and accept these behaviors in the wild.
It is a whole different ballgame and for anyone listening, asking, you know,
why would you even put the animal through this?
What was the goal?
I mean, it's a very important tool in conservation.
(29:44):
But why were you moving these eland?
You know, it obviously depends on the species and the reserve etc.
And I think that in this case, like we had too many.
If I remember correctly, there were too many male eland.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) And welcome in to the Wild Tales Podcast.
This is your host.
I'm Mike Bona.
And thank you for tuning in if this is your first time.
I hope you enjoy.
And if you're a regular listener, thank you for your continuing support.
This is the last podcast of 2024.
I hope you had a wonderful year, and I hope your 2025 is even better.
(00:40):
I have a wonderful guest in this episode, an old friend.
We used to be co-workers, and now she's gone her own way to take a
different path.
She's kind of doing a little bit of everything, currently in vet school,
talking about a wonderful trip she had recently, working with conservation vets
out in the wilds of Africa.
(01:01):
And she's also well known for her Comic Con visits and her cosplays and costume
making.
She is very talented in that aspect.
Her name is Madison.
She goes by Zoo Girl Q on all the social media, so please follow her.
And we had a lot of fun chatting.
We had a delightful conversation.
(01:22):
She told a wonderful and exciting story of, well, you'll hear, it involves an
eland not cooperating during a medical procedure, which sometimes animals tend
to do.
But you know, she's a professional.
She surrounded herself with professionals.
They got through it, and you'll hear all about it.
So let me just stop rambling.
We'll get into the story time, and please let me welcome Madison.
(01:52):
So, Madison, thank you for joining the podcast.
We've known each other for many years.
We used to work together as zookeepers, and now you're across the world in
Scotland, going to vet school.
You do conservation projects, working down in Africa, and you also have a huge
following on social media doing cosplay and going to Comic Cons in different
(02:16):
countries.
Where do you find the time?
Do you even sleep?
Short answer, no.
No, I do.
I do try to get a healthy six to eight hours of sleep every night.
It doesn't always happen, but I do expend all of my energy.
Absolutely.
I never know what time zone I'm in.
(02:36):
So that's a fun thing about me.
Fun fact.
That does sound fun.
I see one of those, is that your Charizard outfit in the background?
I have Dragonite right there.
I have my Cubone.
I have my little hood for my Ewok.
And those are just the cosplays I have on display in my little streaming room.
And you make those yourself?
I have boxes and boxes.
(02:58):
Yes, I do make them myself.
I had to learn how to do pretty much everything that cosplay requires.
So I learned how to work with thermoplastics.
I learned how to sew.
I learned how to do foamsmithing, molding, 3D printing, all that good stuff.
Wow, it's all self-taught.
It's a lot of work.
Yeah, it's all self-taught.
(03:19):
I mean, I did have friends show me how to do things, but basically worked on
the skills by myself.
Is that how you're going through vet school too?
Is that all being self-taught?
Yes.
I don't know if you've been in vet school or any school actually, but they
really just give you the information.
No, that's not what I meant.
I take it back.
I'm sorry.
No, the joke.
(03:40):
I mean, honestly, though, they really do just give you the information and then
they're like, good luck.
And you're like, all right, I'm supposed to be a doctor by myself.
You know, that's how I felt because I actually did go to school, believe it or
not.
But yeah, I went through the Morpark program at the America's Teaching Zoo.
I worked with animals in the zoo there for two years.
(04:02):
I felt like I got an education, but then I started working at a real zoo
and I was on my own.
Yeah.
And it's like, you know, it's a small zoo at the school.
I worked with, you know, small primates and goats and stuff.
And then I got a job at a real zoo and was put in charge of
this huge, you know, black rhino.
I got like two days of training and then like, all right, you're on your own.
(04:24):
I'm like, wait, I'm on my own?
You trust me to know what I'm doing with this huge animal?
Right.
Even with the education, it's like once you're on your own in the real world,
you feel kind of like, do I belong here?
Do I actually know what I'm doing?
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
And 20 years later, I still don't know what I'm doing.
I mean, do any of us know what we're doing or do we just get really
(04:45):
good at pretending?
We're all just faking it.
Fake it till you make it, right?
Fake it till you make it.
Or retire first.
That's the worst part.
I remember when I started at the zoo and then all of a sudden I was
responsible for high school students and volunteers.
And I had to like teach them what I had just learned myself while I was
volunteering.
So that was fun.
(05:05):
But yeah, you get really good at it as you grow up.
You get really good at faking it till you make it.
And then people just think that you know what you're doing and you just go
through life like that.
Exactly.
Well, I think we could do a whole nother episode, although it's not really
animal related, talking about all your costumes and cosplay.
But we're here to talk about wildlife, animals.
(05:27):
And recently you took a trip to Africa, I believe you went to, was it Botswana
is where you ended up?
Yeah.
So that was just part of the trip.
I flew in to South Africa at the end of, was it the end of June
or the beginning of June?
I think it was the beginning of June.
And I spent two weeks on the Eastern Cape of South Africa doing the Vets Go
(05:51):
Wild course, which if for all those that don't know what the Vets Go Wild
course is, it's basically this like 16 day experience for vet students that's
run by William Folds, who is a wildlife conservation and management
veterinarian on the Eastern Cape of South Africa.
He's done absolutely wonderful work in rhino conservation.
(06:15):
He is part of Saving the Survivors, which is a wonderful, what would you call
it, like a program?
Yeah, program.
Yeah.
Well, I mean like Saving the Survivors.
So anyways, it was a group of veterinarians that actually were able to save the
first rhino from a poaching incident.
(06:37):
So the rhino was poached, they took her face off, her entire horn, she was
found alive and Will Folds along with I think one or two other veterinarians
were able to work together to actually save her life.
So they started a foundation called Saving the Survivors, which now works to
protect a lot of rhino suffering from poaching incidents in South Africa and I
(07:01):
think like across other parts of Africa, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I believe he works in several other countries and yeah, Will Folds, he's
very, if you're in the industry, you know that name.
He's very well known as a conservationist, as a vet, wildlife vet, and he's
done amazing work.
And to be able to save a rhino that has been poached, has been shot and
its horn removed and those horns, they cut, I mean, it's brutal.
(07:23):
I would not recommend anyone looking for any photos or videos.
It is very disturbing to watch and to be able to treat an animal that's gone
through that horrific event and have it survive and I believe has also produced
offspring since that horrific event as well.
I mean, it's added to the rhino population.
That is an incredible story.
(07:44):
I got to reach out.
I wonder if he'd be interested in doing a podcast.
And you know what's actually crazy is he, well, I guess it's not that crazy,
but he is an incredible, incredible storyteller.
Like while I was down there spending time, he actually talked to us about rhino
conservation, about Tandy specifically, about another cow that he wasn't able
to save.
And he, the way that he tells the story and the way that he's connected with
(08:09):
those animals and is able to like connect with people through those stories is
really, really remarkable.
Like I was there sobbing in front of him, which is, I guess to be expected,
it is like rhino conservation is such a like emotional thing, right?
It's not just like sad and angry anymore.
It's like all of the emotions.
(08:31):
Like there's hope, there's anger, there's fear, there's sadness, there's
frustration.
There's just all of these things that come up in these stories.
And Will is just one of the most amazing humans in all the work that he's
done between the veterinary aspects to the political aspects, et cetera, et
cetera.
Yes.
So I was able to spend 16 days on a course led by Will Foulds where
(08:54):
he, the course is focused on game capture and essentially like the relocation
or the veterinary care of different wildlife species in the Eastern Cape of
South Africa surrounding conservation efforts.
And then after those 16 days, I went to Botswana, Namibia and had a little fun
doing other conservation things, but not so much vet work.
(09:16):
So it was it was a five week Africa extravaganza.
Fantastic.
So what did you learn?
What are some of the things you experienced while you're out there?
Oh, God, what didn't I experience?
So the course is basically set up.
There is I forget how many students, but I want to say there were like 12
ish veterinary students of all different ages.
(09:40):
We even had a not all different ages, but all different like stages in their
veterinary careers.
We even had a registered vet tech from Scotland.
So there were two people from coming from Scotland, me and this other girl, and
then a few Bristol vets and a few, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And the first few days were a lot of fun.
(10:00):
We did a lot of game drives around Amakala, which is Wilfold's basically home
reserve where he I think he owns a share of it.
And and then we also did lectures.
So in our lectures, we basically learned what wildlife procedures look like.
Right.
So a veterinary procedure in a zoo is definitely different than a veterinary
(10:25):
procedure in Africa.
And I know that you have personally experienced that as well.
We were even lucky enough to do one giraffe or sorry, we did two giraffe, but
we did one giraffe day.
And it's kind of like the wild, wild west out there.
Like, I'm thankful that I am from a background of working with large animals.
But there were a lot of students on this.
(10:49):
On this program that had only had small animal experience, and I think it was
like a huge game changer for them.
Oh, I bet.
I bet their eyes were just wide, just popping out the whole time.
Well, it was crazy to me because it was a lot of these girls first time
to South Africa as well.
And obviously I had been there.
I think it was my sixth or seventh time spending time doing anti-poaching or,
(11:12):
you know, whatever in South Africa.
Pretty much the first day they threw us on, they took us to a reserve and
we were doing what species was it?
I think it was kudu.
I think we were doing kudu relocation.
So we had to relocate a bunch of kudu bulls to a very large, large antelope
in Africa.
And giant, large, giant antelope, large, giant spiral horns, spiral horns.
(11:36):
Yes.
Yes.
They are gorgeous, but very big and potentially dangerous animals to work with.
And you know what else I learned is they take like crazy amounts of drugs to
knock down.
So you actually use more drugs in a kudu bull than you would a buffalo.
That's I didn't know that.
That's I don't know that you.
Nobody needs to know that, I guess, but they.
(11:58):
Well, now my listeners know that and they will use that information.
Yes.
So they're very sexual animals.
Eddie, we get to this, we get to this reserve and we literally all hop on
the back of a bucky.
And it's like me, three other girls and like six ground team guys.
And I'm like, there's too many people on the back of this bucky, first of all.
(12:20):
And that was like that was like these girls first African experience.
We're like driving through the bush on the back of the bucky, like, you know
how it like you bounce up if you're not holding on, you're like hitting your
head on branches or like almost flying out of the bucky.
It was it was insane experiences.
It's a rodeo.
It is definitely a rodeo.
And so that was the first day.
(12:41):
And then every day from there, we basically had a different animal procedure.
And Flynn, sorry, my dog is like asking for attention right now.
So every day from there, we have a different animal procedure.
But the craziest person and there are a lot of crazy things that happen.
Like I even got to shoot a dart gun out of a helicopter, which was insane
in and of itself.
(13:02):
It was an incredible experience for a vet student.
But the craziest thing that happened, we had one day.
Do you know what an eland is?
Yes, another large antelope with very large, large.
Yeah, another large animal antelope with very large horns, the largest
antelope, which is very important for the story.
These animals are seventeen hundred kilograms or pounds.
(13:27):
They might be seventeen hundred.
No, no, I think.
Yes.
Well, that's about right.
About seventeen hundred pounds or kilograms.
That'd be pounds.
So about what that'd be about eight, eight hundred, eight hundred kilograms,
kilograms.
All I know is that they're heavier than horses, right?
They're huge, like absolutely huge.
(13:48):
Just solid animals.
And we.
I'm saying seventeen hundred kilograms would be about four thousand pounds.
Are they that big?
Four thousand pounds.
I'm going to look.
Oh, my God.
We got to look this up.
How big is an eland?
How much does an eland weigh?
OK, so, yeah, the males, which we are moving males, are four hundred to nine
(14:12):
hundred and forty kilograms.
Yeah.
So about seventeen, eighteen hundred pounds.
So about seventeen, eighteen hundred pounds.
OK, and we have satisfied our American and the rest of the world listeners.
I get confused.
They're about five point two feet tall at the shoulder.
So just keep that in mind.
They're like kind of squatty, right?
(14:32):
Like I'm five, three and three quarters for those measuring.
So they're about my height at the shoulder and seventeen hundred pounds.
Anyways, so we're we're planning for this day.
Right.
And it's really in the hands of the vet students.
They split us up into teams and they were like, you guys figure out the drugs
like you figure out whatever.
(14:53):
And then what happens is that we all are responsible for like an animal.
Right.
So there were three eland that we had to move.
So there were three or.
Yeah, let's say there were three teams, teams of like three or four students
and a veterinarian.
But the veterinarian is in the helicopter, like darting the animals.
(15:15):
And we're on the ground team going to the animal.
So basically, we come up with the drug doses, tell the vet, the vet then darts
the animal.
And we are on the back of the bucky, like going to find that animal, get
it on the back of the truck, which, by the way, I don't know whose idea
it was to put a seventeen hundred pound animal on the back of when I say
(15:37):
a bucky like, you know what a bucky is.
But just so everybody understands, it's like a Toyota.
What's the small Toyota?
No, sorry.
It's like a Ford Ranger.
Right.
Tiny, tiny truck.
And the tiny truck that has like six people in the back because we're the
ground team going to pick up this animal.
Right.
So our vet goes up, they locate the eland.
(16:00):
We're like talking on the radio.
She darts the eland, the eland takes off.
Right.
So there's this excitatory phase when they get hit with drugs.
Everybody's like, when a zoo animal gets out, why don't they just start it?
Right.
And we have this conversation all the time.
It's like there's the excitatory phase of induction of anesthesia where the
animal just loses and runs.
(16:22):
Right.
And then you might lose the animal.
So the problem is she darts this eland and he starts going straight for Berbin.
And so we're trying we're sending all the vehicles around to try to cut him off
from going into the ravine.
And he's just heading straight.
And, you know, there's yelling on the radios, et cetera.
(16:44):
We're flying to get to this animal.
We lose him.
We lose Simon and we all hop out of the bucky.
Finally, get on foot, find him in the ravine.
I don't know how to explain this to you, but he's like.
If you imagine a forest and cliffs and then like as you're going down the
(17:05):
cliffs, there's like all these little like cattywampus like sides with trees
and whatever slightly falls down in and then gets like caught upside down, like
on his back in between two bushes, like going down the side of a mountain.
Right.
OK, not the most convenient position.
No.
(17:25):
And on top of it, you're like, OK, if this animal just lays like that, you
know, you have a ruminant that is now on its back.
But, you know, in a in a perfect world, in a zoo, right, you would be
able to fast an animal and blah, blah, blah and not have to worry about all
of these things.
But now you're concerned because he's sedated on his back, like corkscrewed
(17:47):
around a bush.
And we have to figure out how to get this seventeen hundred pound animal, like
not only upright, but like now up the side of this hill.
And we're like six girls and five guys.
Easy.
So super easy.
They have this thing in Africa where they say, oh, we need all the strong men.
And unfortunately, when they say we need strong men, it's like a bunch of women
(18:11):
built like me, which I am a strong man.
I do identify as a strong man, but it's not always.
The most ideal situation, so we find this, we find this island and we start
tying ropes, right, because that's the only way we're going to be able to kick
him over.
And then the big unfortunate part about this whole situation is we now have to
(18:35):
wake this animal up enough that he can stand up and we can like guide him
to walk back up the hill, right, because we can't carry him, but not enough
that he's just going to pull through all the ropes and bulldoze us.
And my heart rate is increasing just hearing this.
So this is like my third day, right, as like working as a wildlife
(18:57):
veterinarian.
And mind you, my third day, I just finished my second year of vet school.
I should not be responsible for this.
But the vet is up in the helicopter being like, everything's fine.
Right.
And we're like, yeah, everything's fine.
So you have an animal, you're estimating the weight, which leads to an
(19:18):
estimation of the drugs, knock it down.
And then you have to estimate the exact amount of reversal.
So it wakes up a little bit.
OK, easy.
Continue.
And that's actually a really good point.
I'm glad you brought that up.
We can talk about that in the resolution.
But so we get there and we do another another veterinarian gets to us.
(19:39):
So we have somebody on the ground that is a vet that is a fully fledged,
like graduated, is working for Wilfold's vet.
So we feel better.
But so we get some of the there's a partial reversal.
We administer the partial reversal.
We have all the ropes up and now we have to like flip this animal.
He starts to wake up.
Right.
So we're trying to flip him over and pull him up.
(20:02):
We have a head rope and a butt rope.
And so everybody's on a rope just like shoving, trying to pull this eland up a
hill.
And we finally get him walking up the hill.
People are like falling down, like sliding down in the mud.
You know, it's it's it's the wild, wild west out there is there really is no,
no good way to explain this.
But people are tripping over ropes like there's people that don't necessarily
(20:26):
completely speak English.
So we're all just trying to like yell at each other and give commands and like
work together.
And it's it's it's a lot it's a lot of fun, but it's a lot.
So we finally get this animal up to like the place where we can then work
on it, like a flat ground where the bucky can be.
And then we have to knock it back down.
(20:47):
Right.
So we can then put it on the stretcher and load it into the back of
the car.
So and this is where the vet students get to, like, be in charge of everything.
And if you know, like how easy it is, like, let's talk about how easy it
is to just give an IV injection to a horse, right?
Like you can just give it in the jugular vein.
(21:09):
The veins are huge, whatever.
Eland, not the same like Eland, you're giving IV injections in the ear vein.
And mind you, this animal is like half sedated, but not really.
So like kind of reactive, but also just like big and stupid and and, you know,
not acting right and kind of like waking up and wanting to get away and then
(21:31):
being like, oh, wait, just kidding.
I'm a little drunk, you know, like and as this girl, one of my friends is
trying to get a needle in its ear to give it more ketamine to put it
back to sleep so that we can get it on the vehicle, et cetera, et cetera.
So we have people holding it on ropes from both ends and we're trying to get
this ear vein.
Right.
And you're like holding the ear.
(21:53):
You have somebody like I'm holding the front of the animal, like somebody's
holding off the vein.
She's trying to get this like tiny little needle in this tiny ear vein in this
giant Eland.
And that was a whole scene in and of itself.
We finally get the drugs in, we knock it down.
And that and that's when I realized I don't think I really thought through how
difficult this was going to be.
(22:14):
But like we have this animal on the ground.
Right.
And then we have to get it onto the steel stretcher.
So we're like it's taking, I don't know, 10 people to all fit in and like
get hands underneath this animal to roll it onto a stretcher.
So we finally do that.
And then we have to just hand lift, hand lift it.
(22:36):
A 70.
It's huge.
Into the back of a Ford Ranger.
And everybody's yelling, everybody's like shoulder to shoulder trying to get in
there.
And I'm like, I'm in there and I'm like squished between two guys.
And I'm literally like, I don't I can't even get ground underneath me to like
use any of the muscles that I actually have.
(22:58):
Like, I don't know how people contort themselves and like use all of their
musculature to lift these animals.
It seemed impossible.
It seemed impossible.
But we somehow did it.
Nothing's impossible.
Apparently nothing is impossible.
We somehow did it.
And we got him into the back of the car.
And then me, the team of like three other girls and then a couple of guys
(23:20):
got into the back of the Bucky with this animal.
And we were transferring it then to a trailer to then take it somewhere else.
Right.
So we're riding in the back of this truck, essentially, with the eland in the
truck asleep, ideally.
And we go over the ravine, we start to get out and we're hauling like we're
(23:43):
literally hauling ass, bouncing all over the place, et cetera, et cetera.
And all of a sudden his skin starts twitching.
And I was like, um, I was like, he needs more ketamine.
And the girls were like, what, what?
And I was like, he needs more ketamine.
I don't know.
I'm stupid.
I'm not, I don't know what I was thinking, but I like laid my body of
(24:06):
him thinking that my little like one hundred and fifty pound body is going to
hold down this animal.
I don't know.
Yeah, anyways, so we had a girl on each ear trying to hit a vein and
mind you, it's it's just impossible.
You're in a moving vehicle.
Well, I'm like tapping the top of the truck and I'm like, hey, like we need
to stop.
We stopped the truck and they're just trying to go, trying to go, trying to go,
(24:29):
trying to get some analgesics into this animal.
And I'm laying on top of him and all of a sudden ear twitch.
And I was like, oh, no.
I was like, you guys, we got to hit it.
Like you have to get the drugs in him now.
Yeah.
Another ear twitch.
And then he literally just stands up, just flies me off.
(24:49):
I like hit the side.
So these trucks have like sidebars kind of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I like hit the sidebar and then I start yelling.
I was just like, oh, everybody get out.
Everybody get out.
Everybody.
I like turn around.
And this guy, one of our ground team behind me literally is like pinned.
The island is leaning towards us.
(25:09):
He's pinned between the island and the vehicle on his like chin.
And he like you could tell he already tried to dip out of the truck.
But like the island is holding and he's like yelling.
And I was like, oh, my God.
So I like grab the side of the of the bucky of the truck.
And I like booty pops the island off of this guy.
(25:30):
This guy fall onto the ground.
I have another student there that was standing there like this, like eyes open,
like not knowing what to do.
I was like, get out of the vehicle.
Get out.
Get out.
I had another guy coming from the ground in a vehicle that was following us,
like lifting students out of the vehicle.
There's a whole video of this.
I essentially like knock the island off this guy and then dove head first out
(25:55):
of the vehicle.
And this island's just like standing up in the back of this truck.
And I was like, oh, my God, this is a worst case scenario.
This is worst case scenario.
This animal is way too big to be in this truck anyways.
And we literally had six people in the back of the vehicle with it.
And he just wakes up, just wakes up in the back of the vehicle.
(26:16):
It was insane.
That's crazy.
That is insane.
That is so resolution.
Did he jump out, run off?
Did you guys were able to sedate him again?
I was expecting that he was going to jump out and run off, but thankfully he
didn't.
Like once we all got out of the vehicle, he just stood up and he was
blindfolded.
So he just was basically like.
(26:37):
What's happening?
And then a vet came from another vehicle and like got on top of the vehicle
and was able to sedate him to go down again.
And thankfully he did not wake up a second time.
So we then were able to just like get him to where we needed to get
him to and load him into the moving vehicle.
But what was crazy is that fun that was traumatizing in and of itself.
(27:02):
Granted, like I have been in bad situations like that before.
But I was stressed because the rest of the vet students were panicking.
Like it was a full blown.
I have never seen so much panic in one moment.
And I was like, oh, my God, somebody is going to get hurt.
Somebody did get stomped on.
Like this one girl had to go over the top of the truck.
(27:25):
Like it was just it was quite an experience.
And the worst part is that it happened again.
Like it happened with the second eland and the second eland actually like
jumped out of the vehicle.
And mind you, this was not my eland.
So I was watching this from afar.
But he actually woke up and ended up jumping out of the truck, which is crazy.
And then I can't remember if it happened to the third one or not.
(27:49):
But we had a discussion after and I had never thought about this.
And this was a good learning experience.
But what you were saying is like, you know, we were visualizing how much the
animal weighed, how much drugs to use, et cetera, et cetera.
And the doses that we were using are correct.
And any like had we given any more knockdown drugs or anything like we could
(28:13):
have killed the animal like it's what we were doing is correct.
But Will speculates that these animals are just so fat that the volume of just
like the drugs are not being metabolized properly because he was like, this
happens every year.
And I was like, if it happens every year, why don't you warn us?
(28:36):
It would have been nice just to know.
It's probably more fun on his part just to see your reaction.
I mean, that's the thing.
It's a good learning experience.
I will be prepared in the future to just expect that if I ever work with
eland ever again.
But yeah, it was crazy.
They're the most unsuspecting looking animals.
They're like giant cow antelope, essentially.
(28:59):
Yeah.
And it's it's easy to, you know, to not like not panic, especially with your
first time.
It's like that's your instinct to panic.
But yeah, that's a field you want to get into.
You got to expect your anticipate the craziest things that happen because
you're right.
This is a completely different world than in a zoo setting.
You know, in a zoo, you're in a confined space.
(29:21):
You can sometimes have an animal willingly walk into a crate to be confined, be
injected and accept these behaviors in the wild.
It is a whole different ballgame and for anyone listening, asking, you know,
why would you even put the animal through this?
What was the goal?
I mean, it's a very important tool in conservation.
(29:44):
But why were you moving these eland?
You know, it obviously depends on the species and the reserve etc.
And I think that in this case, like we had too many.
If I remember correctly, there were too many male eland.
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