May 15, 2025 ā¢ 31 mins
Explore the hidden world of nature after dark with author and adventurer Charles Hood, as he discusses his new book, "Nature at Night," and the incredible biodiversity that thrives under the stars.
In this illuminating episode of Wild Tails, host Mike Bona sits down with Charles Hood, renowned naturalist, photographer, and author of the upcoming book Nature at Night: Discover the Hidden World That Comes Alive After Dark (Timber Press, April 29, 2025).
From glowing bioluminescent seas to stealthy nocturnal predators, Charles takes us deep into the science and wonder of the natural world after sunset. With over 240 vivid wildlife photos and a wealth of ecological insight, his book is a must-read for anyone fascinated by nocturnal animals and biodiversity at night.
Charles Hood has been a professor, factory worker, ski instructor, and African nature guide. His adventures span all 50 states, 80 countries, and 1,000+ mammal sightings. He brings humor, depth, and heart to every story.
Whether you're a birder, wildlife enthusiast, or curious explorer, this episode will inspire you to look at the dark in a whole new light.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hello, and welcome into the Wild Tales Podcast.
I am your host, Mike Bona.
Thank you for tuning in.
If this is your first episode, you're in for a treat.
I have a great guest today.
Thank you for tuning in and I don't know how you found it, but I'm glad
you found it.
If you are a returning listener, thank you for supporting the podcast.
It's listeners like you that's helping this little podcast grow and grow, and I
(00:40):
greatly appreciate it.
However, there's more growth to be had.
I would love to see this podcast shoot up the chart to be among the top
listened podcasts in the country, nay, the world, and we can do that if you
just tell your friends and family about it.
If each of you listening to this podcast tell two friends, and they tell two
(01:01):
friends, and they tell a hundred thousand friends, we could be right up there
with SmartLists and Conan and the podcast giants of the world.
Okay, maybe my ambitions are a little high there, but I would like to get this
podcast out to more and more people out there, because I think I have some
(01:22):
great guests, some great stories that people would like to hear.
So please share and also subscribe, like, comment, rate, five stars, whatever
you got to do to help this podcast get noticed by more people.
Also, it's because of the more listeners I'm receiving and the more attention
(01:43):
this podcast is gaining that I get to interview great guests like today.
I have Charles Hood, who is a author, he is a photographer, he has traveled the
world, he's been a nature guide in Africa, he's been to all 50 U.S. states,
he's actually been to 80 different countries, he's been all the way down to the
(02:04):
South Pole, he has a long list of birds and mammals that he has recorded, he
has a fascinating life, a great story, and he is releasing a book called Nature
at Night, Discover the Hidden Worlds that Come Alive After Dark.
It is a illuminating and beautiful crafted exploration of the nocturnal world.
(02:24):
With wit, curiosity, and an adventurous spirit, Hood takes readers on a journey
into the darkness, revealing the astonishing life that thrives when the sun
goes down.
It is a great book, I received an advanced copy and I've read through most of
it, it is fascinating, the illustration and the photos are just simply
(02:47):
gorgeous, and I've never met Charles Hood before, this is the first time I've
had a guest on who I have never met before, and he sounds like a really
cool guy.
I really had a great time with him, I'm sure you all will love him as
well, so I will stop rambling and get into my delightful conversation with
author Charles Hood.
(03:13):
Alright, well today I'm very excited to welcome Charles Hood onto Wild Tales,
thanks for joining us today, Charles.
I'm so happy to be with everybody, thank you for inviting me.
So, I was reading your biography, and I just want to just read a portion of
this to my audience, because I find this fascinating, but it says, in addition
to being an author and professor, Hood has also been a factory worker, a ski
(03:35):
instructor, a dishwasher, and a nature guy in Africa, nature study has taken
him to all 50 US states, 80 countries, and the South Pole, along the way you've
seen 6,000 species of birds in the wild, 1,000 kinds of animals, Charles has
been lost in a whiteout in Tibet, contracted and survived bubonic plague, and
published 20 books and over 800 photographs.
(03:59):
I want to talk about all this and cover your whole life story, but we have
limited time, so I don't know where to start, but I know it's not really animal
related, or maybe it is, but I do want to ask, how does someone contract the
bubonic plague?
Alright, I want to encourage our listeners to get a classical education, if you
don't have one yet, it's time to know your history, so we all know there was
(04:20):
bubonic plague, and therefore you should probably know the onsets, you know,
one of the symptoms when it onsets, if you've read a book called The Distant
Mirror, you know, by Barbara Techman.
So I had crawled through a field in Oklahoma, trying to get close to these
lesser prairie chickens, and I had to crawl over a prairie dog mound, and then
of course I came in contact with the fleas from the prairie dogs, so then in
(04:42):
New Mexico, later on the trip, two weeks later, when I get the swollen bubo,
it's like, oh, I know what's happening right now, I know black bile when I see
it, but you know, with modern medicine, what could I, you know, as they say in
Monty Python, I was dead, but I got better.
Also, the bubonic plague isn't as virulent now as it used to be, and that's
simply, you know, like if it killed off all the humans, there'd be no hosts
(05:02):
left, so it is survivable, thank you, partly to antibiotics, and partly to an
education that I knew the symptoms.
Oklahoma, I was reading that, wondering what third world country you're in, but
you're right here in the U.S. Well, we won't insult your audience by saying
that I was in a third world country, but yeah, I was crawling through a field
on my belly over a prairie dog mound, trying to get up on some birds, and
(05:25):
I didn't even see the birds, that's the depressing thing, right, didn't get my
lesser prairie chickens, I think I had bad information on that site.
So you're not an immortal that was born in the 1700s?
Yeah, we don't talk about my vampiric origins, that's for a different station.
Great, well, I'm really excited to have you on the show, you sent me a copy
(05:47):
of your new book that's coming out, right, it's not released yet?
Well, that's always a softie, you know, it's in a warehouse somewhere, if you
go on Amazon, I'm sure someone can find it.
All right.
You know, Nature at Night is out there somewhere.
Nature at Night, here, I have a copy, I'm pulling in my hand, this is an
audio podcast, but I'll post a video clip of this, but yeah, I was looking
through this, this is, first of all, it's great information, great book,
(06:08):
visually stunning, the photographs and everything are just beautiful.
Well, you're very kind, one of the things about the book that, here, I'll hold
my copy closer to the microphone so your listening audience can see it better,
one of the things we tried to do was to never have a deer in the
headlights, we all know that cliche, but it's also true, right, that an animal
too over lit, or if you've been at a party and someone had a flash cube
(06:28):
on their camera way back in the day, we all had red eyes, so this is
fashion model lighting brought to the rainforest and used like with bats, so if
I was with researchers and we're catching bats in nets and handling them for
scientific purposes, I would take a picture, but I was traveling with extra
duffel bags, as everybody would imagine, like for Vogue magazine, they don't
(06:49):
just take your camera out and start shooting, they've got soft, wrapped,
diffused light, and I was using that trick to make nature less fearsome, to be
honest, you know, like to try to get a really, if I can use this word,
a sexy picture of a snake, or a really kind of flattering picture of a bat,
because we have so many misperceptions about the night.
I agree, and is that because, you know, most people are asleep at night, they
(07:12):
don't know what's going on around them in their own backyards at night, they
have a misconception of what these animals are up to?
Well, particularly in North America and even in Europe, I think we've been
trained to fear the night, because it's profitable for certain companies to
tell us that we need security lights and motion-triggered lights, and so we
begin to buy into this idea that if there's no lights, then the bad things are
(07:35):
going to get us, the bad people, the bad animals, the bad vibes, the miasma
that's out there, but the reality is, if, you know, for all of us who are
listening right now, your great-grandfather could walk around in the dark
perfectly fine.
If we go back 50, 100, 150 years, no one could come home from the field
back to the village.
If you couldn't walk by moonlight, you'd just have to sit there and starve.
(07:55):
So we've been told we need lights, but really we don't.
Good point.
So you've already covered a little brief stories talking about taking photos of
bats and crawling through chicken poop, you know, animal stories, but talking
about this, when you're writing and taking photographs for this book, Nature at
Night, any particular stories or incidents that stand out that you can recall?
(08:18):
So for those of you who are bird watchers, you know people keep lists, a trip
list, a year list, a yard list, and then there are mammal watchers who keep
lists, and they're a smaller group, but nonetheless just as dedicated.
So I've been blessed to be invited along with some of the top mammal watchers
in the world as they go on their expeditions.
So we went to Gabon in West Africa to look for the giant pangolin.
(08:40):
I think a lot of people now heard of pangolin, this sort of scaly anteater from
the old world, but there is a kind that is never seen.
It's in the Congo basin called the giant pangolin, and it's a biggie.
You know, it weighs 80 pounds, it's bigger than a Newfoundland dog, and hardly
ever seen.
Of course, the native trackers see it, and a few researchers have some radio
collared, but the normal tourist never sees them.
(09:02):
So we did an expedition.
We were staying in an abandoned village, abandoned research station, no
electricity, no, you know, just drinking out of the rivers and bathing there
and hiking in the forest at night, and the guards who took us around, the
trackers, were saying, run, run, run in French, which I don't speak all that
well, but I know run in French.
(09:22):
And then I thought, oh, the elephants are after us, because there are now two
species of elephants in Africa that's been split apart.
The regular grassland savannah elephant that everyone sees on safari in Kenya,
which is relatively benign, and you know, you kind of predict what it's going
to do, but then the other species now is the rainforest, or the West African
elephant, and it is a little bit more temperamental, and it really, when it
(09:44):
sees a human, it just thinks, oh, I think I'll smush that, smoosh that thing
flat.
There's a person, I'll just run out and smoosh it.
That seems to be their sort of reaction, and so they are actually a legitimate
threat, and so when the trackers are saying, run, run, run, and we were really
trying to conserve our flashlight batteries, because we were staying in a camp
with no electricity, so we had rechargeable batteries, so like sort of every
(10:05):
third person had his or her light on in the dimmest setting, and I'm trying to
run through the rainforest of Gabon at night with no flashlight, thinking,
well, you know, if I have to die, I guess this is as good a way
to go as any other, you know, like, better, I suppose, this and that.
They can say I died, but I'm doing what I like.
But then we get there, and the trackers had found a giant pangolin, and that
was the great thing, and we were trying to get a picture of it, and I
(10:26):
have to confess, we did something a little bit bad.
They tried to grab the pangolin by its tail.
Two trackers, these are very athletic people.
They could be, you know, playing on the NFL team.
They could not deter that animal.
It was just like, I'm going over here now, and it just flings them off with
its tail, off into the darkness, and off it goes.
But there it was.
We saw a giant pangolin.
They do exist.
(10:47):
That's fascinating.
Yeah, I can imagine, because they're all pretty much muscle, and just having
about 60 pounds, a pangolin, yeah, smaller South African version, you know, and
they're, you know, just tight little balls of muscle.
But yeah, that's a lot of animals to try to hold.
Yeah, it's almost prehistoric.
If you know about giant ground sloths or something, they have these immense
(11:08):
digging talons on their front feet and so on.
So, yay for going out with people that are, A, determined to see things, and B,
can make the connections up with the researchers.
That's great.
Yeah, and being in Africa myself a few times, I know if your trackers or guides
say run, you don't question them.
Sure, right.
You just go off what they're.
And if they say it's up in the bushes, like, oh, okay, it's up there somewhere.
(11:31):
I just need to keep looking until I can see what they see.
Oh, they can see, you know, a small little mammal, you know, 60 miles away in
a bush somewhere, and they got great vision.
They do it every day.
They know what they're doing.
Yes, it's really sort of depressing.
It's not pretty good, actually, and even though I wear glasses, I'm pretty good
sight, but I'm nothing compared to them.
Oh, my gosh.
(11:53):
Yeah, well, at least you would have been trampled by an elephant, though.
You would have had an exciting obituary.
Yes, someone can write that one up for me.
I don't mind, yeah.
That's great.
So, I'm guessing that was one of the bucket list animals that you got to see.
Sure, you know, there are 6,000 species of mammals, and the top, top, top, top
(12:14):
person of all, John Hall.
Hi, John Hall.
He's seen 2,400, something like that.
The rest of us are at the 1,000 mark, you know.
He works for the UN, so I always say he's got a, it's not a fair
advantage.
He has to travel for work, but he's also just very, very dedicated, more so
even than I am.
I have a friend that just came back from the Congo.
It's, there's a little small group, but they're like the most hardcore bird
(12:36):
watchers.
They want to do it all the time, and if it, you know, if they have
to work occasionally, that seems to be a nuisance they'll put up with or, you
know, show up for their family once in a while, but they're out there in the
field most of the time, and I do go with them.
In Nicaragua, we saw a species of bat that had never been seen alive before.
I went out with the bat people, and it was known only from a skull, and
so we trapped it and deduced it must be this one, photographed it, got a DNA
(13:00):
sample, which is, which is waiting, awaiting publication still.
So, yeah, make, okay, this is for your listeners.
Find some friends, and then make sure they're rich friends.
It really helps to have rich friends, because some of this stuff is really
expensive, like the thermal scopes we use at night to look for, you know, the
body heat of an animal, the signature, the thermal signature of an animal,
those are thousands of dollars.
(13:21):
You definitely want a rich friend when it comes time to buy your heat scope.
Oh, well, if there's any listeners out there who are rich, who need a friend, I
can volunteer my services.
Yeah, Mike is volunteering his services, y'all.
Right, yeah.
I'm sure Charles might be available as well.
Yes, I'm a good guy.
I travel well, I take good pictures.
(13:41):
I guarantee I'll get you a really sexy picture for your YouTube page, for your
website page.
Yeah, I don't know how many mammals I've seen, probably not nearly as many as
you as your friends.
I just started recently, keeping track of my bird species.
A few episodes ago, I was talking to Chris Mortenson, who's the host of All
Creatures podcast, and he was bird shaming me because we both use the eBird
app.
Do you use the eBird?
(14:02):
Yes, yes.
And I have, you know, I just started kind of keeping track.
So I have like 30 species that I observed.
So since then, I've been building up, I'm almost to 100 now.
So we'll see over the next few years how, how high you can get up to.
But I gotta get out of my little pocket here in Southern California and start
checking out other parts of the country and other countries to get those
(14:23):
numbers up.
Well, you know, Mike, shame on you, indeed, because Southern California, you
know, they did a weekend in Los Angeles County, they did a weekend count two
weeks ago, I think it was, and they had a bad year, they only had 265
species from Friday, Saturday and Sunday, collectively, everybody's lists put
together.
But yes, you're around a lot of things.
(14:45):
I'm far from professional, it's pure amateur here, but I'll get up there.
It's addictive.
So I actually don't recommend it.
If you have an addictive personality, don't take up bird listing.
It's it never ends.
Because then even after you've seen all the birds, you still want to see, you
know, the for this year, or this month or this location.
Yeah, so I think I'm officially what they call at bird watching age.
(15:10):
So let's go back to nature at night.
So you discover, you know, you're you're roaming through or taking photos of
different regions, different areas under the ocean.
Do you get to do any of those photographies or scuba diving?
I'm a reasonably good researcher.
So if I can't find a picture, I know someone who took it.
I do have a good picture.
And that's in the book that I'm proud of.
There's a dolphin leaping out of the water that actually tells us a lot about
(15:32):
nature at night under the ocean.
So here's the backstory.
The biggest migration in the world is not the Serengeti and it's not the
caribou up in Alaska.
It is the oceans of the world.
Trillions, trillions, trillions of organisms are moving up and down thousands
of feet at a time from the daytime, where they're down in the darker depths, up
(15:53):
to the nighttime when they want to feed on the surface.
So phytoplankton, they need sunlight.
They're the little planty things in the ocean.
And so they're up at the surface all the time.
But things that want to eat the phytoplankton, the sort of graze the grass, so
to speak, they don't want to get eaten by anything else.
So they come up at night.
And that means that the things that are following them are coming up and things
that are following them that are coming up.
We all can imagine the food chain here.
(16:13):
And one of the things that is participating in this vertical migration every
day are the cookie cutter sharks.
These are about a foot and a half long.
They kind of look like a big slug or a big eel or something.
And they've got a completely circular mouth full of very, very sharp teeth.
And as animals are coming from the lower depths to the higher depths, these
cookie cutter sharks dart in and grab a mouthful of flesh, twist in a circle
(16:36):
and peel away and grab that outer layer of epidermis and maybe some muscle and
fat, whatever they've gotten.
And we can see their actions on dolphins because dolphins are chasing nocturnal
squid.
Of course, dolphins have echolocation.
They don't care whether it's daytime or nighttime.
So most dolphins are feeding at night.
They're feeding on these squid that are following the little animals that are
following the other little animals.
(16:57):
And the cookie cutter sharks are coming in.
And so I got a picture of a leaping dolphin in Indonesia.
And it had these sort of starfish shaped scars down its side, like little
rosettes, like little wedding corsages all down its legs.
Like what the heck is that all about?
That's not a barnacle.
And then I realized, oh, those are healed cookie cutter shark bites that it got
chasing the squid at night.
(17:19):
Yeah, I hope that all made sense to your listeners.
A little bit complicated ecosystem stuff going on there.
But we do have some pictures also of the dolphins underwater at night.
I didn't take that picture.
Luckily, my editors were able to work with me on locating the people that have
the right pictures.
But thank you.
You're very kind to even bring it up.
Yeah, I'm actually I found that page right now as you're talking of the dolphin
leaping and the cookie cutter shark right next to it.
(17:42):
Those things are I would not want that mouth around any part of me that looks
gnarly.
Yeah, it's a very nasty looking kind of thing.
You know, if your audience wants to look it up.
Yeah, they do.
They're a little bit alien, like alien, like they're a little creepy.
And there's a picture in the book of a submarine how we found out about cookie
cutter sharks.
They were unknown to science.
(18:03):
But the American submarines in the 1970s were losing their radar capability
because something was gnawing on the neoprene housing that covered the
electronics.
And it turned out, you know, research revealed that it was the cookie cutter
sharks.
They thought the neoprene on the submarine was like a really big, juicy whale
with one soft spot, a hard whale with a soft spot.
And they were biting the submarines and wrecking all this equipment.
(18:25):
And now we know more about them.
And now our submarines are different, too.
Wow.
I would imagine, yeah, especially just nature under the water, even at night or
during any time we know so very little about.
I imagine at night there's even less that we know about.
Sure.
For those who are listening, who want to, you know, you're looking for your Ph
.D. project, I always recommend.
Can you please explain to us why some of the mammals glow in the dark, which
(18:47):
is something we've only learned about recently?
Platypuses, for example, in Australia, if you have a UV flashlight, which, of
course, you want so you can see scorpions, they glow in the dark.
But you take your UV flashlight and as the platypus swims by, or in the case
of North America, as the flying squirrel glides by at night, they glow under a
UV flashlight.
They don't actually glow without the flashlight, but they do glow.
(19:10):
And you also need those flashlights to see glow in the dark lichen, which is
how the flying squirrels were discovered to be glowing in the dark.
Because some botanists were out at night looking for glow in the dark lichen
with their UV flashlight and then a squirrel flew by.
They go, wow, that squirrel is glowing hot pink.
What's going on with that?
And then they go to the museum.
So there is a Ph.D. dissertation waiting to happen.
(19:30):
One of your listeners should do this and figure out how many animals glow in
the dark and why.
Because we don't know.
We would like to know, but we don't know.
Yeah, two questions I would love to know the answer to, especially why.
I mean, even scorpions, too.
You got some scorpions.
I have actually have one in the house that my son has that we have a
little UV light.
We can glow on it and see it just pop.
All scorpions glow in the dark with UV light.
(19:52):
Just a $10 light from Amazon will do that.
And there are some more expensive kinds of flashlights, too.
There's lots of theories, of course.
It may be that it just helps them with photosensitivity to give a sense that
from moonlight they're out in the open.
It's part of their receptor.
Their whole exoskeleton is sort of absorbing this moonlight.
And they realize, I need to get undercover.
I'm kind of exposed here with the flying squirrels.
(20:15):
Maybe it helps them with vitamin D in some kind of a way, because they are
nocturnal.
There are three species of flying squirrels here in North America, and they
don't flap their wings like a bird, of course, but they glide from tree to
tree.
And they are nocturnal, so maybe it's helping with some type of vitamin
deficiency.
But no, we're waiting.
Your listeners are going to...
Anyone listening to this program, they're into it, right?
(20:37):
They're going to tell us.
They're going to tell us what's going on.
I hope so.
Well, my listeners, find the answer and then contribute it to the Wild Tales
podcast.
We'll put you on air for an hour and mention your name a lot.
That's all I want in my life.
So how did you get interested in this, wildlife in general, wildlife at night?
What was the inspiration for this book?
(21:00):
I'm lucky in that I'm from a different generation maybe than some of our
youngest, youngest listeners.
My parents loved me.
I'm sure we did everything right.
But hey, as long as you're back by dinner, you don't get arrested, go do your
thing.
You've got a bike, go do your thing.
So I could be out exploring on my own along the...
I grew up in East LA, so along the Los Angeles River or sneaking into the
(21:21):
zoo through the back, a hole in the fence in the back.
I just had some freedom of movement.
So I always associate nature with pleasure and with independence and with
knowledge and sometimes fear.
I would scare myself when I saw a snake I wasn't prepared for.
But to me, it's a place to be at home.
And I don't really think about, oh, that I don't belong there.
(21:42):
I think I don't belong there more likely when I'm trying to park.
Like in Santa Monica or something.
Well, they don't want me here.
Look, there's no parking signs.
I'm the wrong guy for them.
But nature, I never feel that.
I always feel somehow welcome, even if it's hot and humid and I don't like the
humidity, but I never feel excluded.
And I don't know how to share that with everybody.
It's our birthright.
We get to do it.
(22:02):
Let's go out and have some fun.
It's free.
Go out for a hike.
It's free.
Absolutely.
It's free.
You never know what you're going to find.
You go on the same hike every day for a year and see something different every
day when it comes to nature, different plants, animals, bugs, birds, wildlife,
bobcats.
You never know.
Right.
And then if you do the same trail that you've done during the day at night
with a friend, with a backup flashlight, I always say bring two flashlights.
(22:25):
If you've ever lost your car keys or dropped your glasses or something.
If you bring one flashlight, you're bound to drop it in the stream.
That's inevitable or your batteries are going to die.
Bring a backup flashlight.
You'll never need it, but have it there.
And maybe go with a friend if you're a little bit worried about your security
or your orientation.
But yeah, you're going to see whether it's the glow-in-the-dark lichen or where
you see a bobcat or a coyote or in the summer, the snakes are more likely
(22:48):
to be out at night just because it's a little bit cooler.
And so they're trying to respond to that or the prey is out.
The mice are out.
Sure.
You're bound to see something or smell something, hear something.
We get to turn off our vision a little bit at night and use our other
senses.
So that's part of the pleasure, smelling all the different aromas that are
coming out of the little bit higher humidity at night.
So often the plants are a bit more aromatic.
(23:09):
Yeah.
Give it a try.
It's fun.
Yeah.
So how did this passion for animals and wildlife take you from East LA to the
South Pole and Africa, all these different countries?
I'm the guy who says, fill out the little piece of paper.
So for example, for your audience, I am a retired English professor and
professor emeritus, blah, blah, blah.
(23:29):
But I have a sort of secret hidden life of outdoor travel and outdoor nature.
And I always fill out the piece of paper.
I wanted to go to Papua New Guinea to see the birds.
And I was a student.
I didn't have any money.
But then I found out the Fulbright program, they'll send people, they'll send
American citizens abroad.
So I said, you know, what's really essential right now for the world is for us
(23:50):
to translate this tribal poetry before it disappears.
You need to send me to Papua New Guinea.
I'm an expert in ethnopoetics, which was sort of true and sort of not true
exactly.
I was expert adjacent.
I'm going to go and learn the language and meet these people and capture their
material on the page because I'm really good at that in a way that's sensitive
to their oral traditions.
I won't superimpose my Western literary canon on them.
(24:13):
I'll find an organic way of expressing themselves.
And you all need to send me there.
And as one of my professors said when he was writing my recommendation, he
says, be careful, you may have to go.
And so sure enough, I went to Papua New Guinea.
And, you know, to give a mouse a cookie for those of you who have taught
that book to your children, to give a mouse a cookie.
Well, then I'm going to want to go to Antarctica.
If you send me to New Guinea, someone's going to pay me to go to the
(24:34):
South Pole.
It's not like a place I can go on my own, really.
So, yes, one thing has led to another over the years of Borneo and Tibet and
Madagascar, mostly on my own.
Mostly I had to pay for it myself through teaching overtime, teaching extra
classes.
If we're going to be honest about it, to get the money, I worked a lot
of extra hours.
I can relate.
(24:54):
And, you know, if there's a place you want to go, if there's a will, there's
a way.
And if you don't have, you know, if you're not rich, you don't have that money
in the bank, find a way.
I've always, when I was a kid, always wanted to travel to Africa.
That was my goal.
And then I got to do that through a grant to work with the Draft Conservation
Foundation.
And that was like, I was 30 as first time I got to go.
I'm like, this is it.
(25:14):
This will just feed that need.
I went to Kenya, spent a few weeks there, came back.
But no, I'm like, that wasn't, it's like a drug.
You know, it's like, now I got to go back.
That's just one country.
There's so many.
I went back, I've been to Namibia, and I'm hoping to go back some more.
But, you know, you find, if you're clever, you can find other people to fund
your trips for you.
(25:35):
Absolutely.
And that's funny, because I went to Kenya for my first Sub-Saharan Africa trip.
And when I was 30, it just took that long for all the, you know, family
relations and everything to line up.
And I remember when I booked that trip, I was sort of hugging myself in the
mirror, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to leave, you know, in six weeks and go
to Kenya.
This is amazing.
And then when I got there, it was every bit as amazing.
For those who haven't gone yet, y'all, it's like, it's exactly like what it
(25:58):
looks like, you know, in the TV show, you see a secretary bird or a giraffe
even, you know, wow, this is so much better than a zoo.
Nothing against zoos.
I want to take my kids to zoos, but like, come on, my grandkids too.
But like, come on now, the real thing is so much better.
Oh, yeah.
Something about just seeing animals in their natural environment.
So yeah, I work at a zoo.
(26:18):
So yeah, nothing against zoos.
I'm always a big zoo supporter, but I'll be driving through the zoo.
And we're next to, you know, the city park.
And we drive past, you know, all these, you know, animals that we have on
display, like, oh, yeah, we see every day kind of unnoticed.
But we see a wild deer on the other side of the fence in the park,
we got to stop like, oh, look, it's a deer.
And it's just a different setting.
It's just animal in its own world.
(26:38):
And it's like, just, it's different.
And it's just so engaging.
You shared with your audience the P-22 story in the LA Zoo.
Have we had that on air?
I have not.
Do you want to tell it or shall I?
A koala.
Yeah, they did not come in and graze on it.
I just think I'm, I'm nothing against the zoos.
You know, I just think it's, it's, that's where nature will find a way.
(27:02):
So, yes, I remember, yeah, being at the zoo, we were all shocked of all the
animals all like the small gazelle and deer like and all the, you know,
mountain lion, prey looking animals.
They pick the koala right?
Why a koala?
How do they even recognize that a koala would be food?
But yeah, after that, you know, we know, you know, shade on P-22, he's doing
(27:24):
what cougars do.
And so we just did a better job after that to protect our animals.
And that was the only, only animal that he was able to get from, from our
zoo.
Apparently, yeah, for those of you who don't know, P-22 is the now deceased
famous puma from Griffith Park in Los Angeles that crossed all the freeways to
end up in a relatively small area and then was mostly eating mule deer.
(27:45):
And I apparently ate a gray fox once, at least once.
So yeah, nothing against the LA Zoo.
And it's a place I've spent many, I've been at that zoo more times than any
other zoo.
You know, I grew up on the, in East LA and also along the LA River
in Atwater.
I've been there many more times than the San Diego Zoo.
So we wish to support our zoos.
But I have to, I have to say, when you see the same animals, lemurs or
(28:08):
anything in true nature, quote unquote, true nature, you know, woo, your little
heart goes pitter pat.
Ah, I agree.
So, um, this is a great story.
It's great talking to y'all.
I hope I didn't get you back on the show again.
But in the meantime, Nature by Night, where can our listeners look for this
book?
Where can they order it, pre-order it?
It's from a company called Timber Press, which is in Portland, Oregon.
(28:29):
And they have a website or any bookstore for those of you who remember what
those look like.
Better to support your local bookstore and ask for Nature at Night there than
to go through Amazon.
But if Amazon is your, is how you get your books, who am I to judge?
So it's, yeah, it's out now.
It's called Nature at Night.
And thank you for mentioning the photographs.
I'm pretty happy with how the book looks.
It's a pretty snappy looking publication.
(28:51):
You should be.
It's gorgeous.
Nature at Night, discover the hidden worlds that come alive after dark by
Charles Hood.
Charles, thank you for being on Wild Tales.
And, uh, can't wait to see what you have in store for us in the future.
Thank you so much.
This has been great fun.
Thank you.
All right, man.
Take care.
(29:12):
Hey, I want to give a big thanks to Charles Hood for coming on the podcast
today.
He just seems like a really cool dude.
I think I could hang with him, have a few beers, tell some stories.
He seems like he's lived a life.
He's actually one of the first guests, actually the first guests I've had on
Wild Tales, who I have not known previously, because that's what you do when
(29:32):
you start a podcast.
You start by inviting your friends on and people, to help you out.
Now, thanks to you, all my loyal listeners, words getting out and I'm getting
to interview people who I don't know.
People that live fascinating lives and do interesting things and write
fascinating books.
So yeah, please check out Nature at Night by Charles Hood.
(29:54):
Check it out wherever you find books.
I highly recommend supporting.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hello, and welcome into the Wild Tales Podcast.
I am your host, Mike Bona.
Thank you for tuning in.
If this is your first episode, you're in for a treat.
I have a great guest today.
Thank you for tuning in and I don't know how you found it, but I'm glad
you found it.
If you are a returning listener, thank you for supporting the podcast.
It's listeners like you that's helping this little podcast grow and grow, and I
(00:40):
greatly appreciate it.
However, there's more growth to be had.
I would love to see this podcast shoot up the chart to be among the top
listened podcasts in the country, nay, the world, and we can do that if you
just tell your friends and family about it.
If each of you listening to this podcast tell two friends, and they tell two
(01:01):
friends, and they tell a hundred thousand friends, we could be right up there
with SmartLists and Conan and the podcast giants of the world.
Okay, maybe my ambitions are a little high there, but I would like to get this
podcast out to more and more people out there, because I think I have some
(01:22):
great guests, some great stories that people would like to hear.
So please share and also subscribe, like, comment, rate, five stars, whatever
you got to do to help this podcast get noticed by more people.
Also, it's because of the more listeners I'm receiving and the more attention
(01:43):
this podcast is gaining that I get to interview great guests like today.
I have Charles Hood, who is a author, he is a photographer, he has traveled the
world, he's been a nature guide in Africa, he's been to all 50 U.S. states,
he's actually been to 80 different countries, he's been all the way down to the
(02:04):
South Pole, he has a long list of birds and mammals that he has recorded, he
has a fascinating life, a great story, and he is releasing a book called Nature
at Night, Discover the Hidden Worlds that Come Alive After Dark.
It is a illuminating and beautiful crafted exploration of the nocturnal world.
(02:24):
With wit, curiosity, and an adventurous spirit, Hood takes readers on a journey
into the darkness, revealing the astonishing life that thrives when the sun
goes down.
It is a great book, I received an advanced copy and I've read through most of
it, it is fascinating, the illustration and the photos are just simply
(02:47):
gorgeous, and I've never met Charles Hood before, this is the first time I've
had a guest on who I have never met before, and he sounds like a really
cool guy.
I really had a great time with him, I'm sure you all will love him as
well, so I will stop rambling and get into my delightful conversation with
author Charles Hood.
(03:13):
Alright, well today I'm very excited to welcome Charles Hood onto Wild Tales,
thanks for joining us today, Charles.
I'm so happy to be with everybody, thank you for inviting me.
So, I was reading your biography, and I just want to just read a portion of
this to my audience, because I find this fascinating, but it says, in addition
to being an author and professor, Hood has also been a factory worker, a ski
(03:35):
instructor, a dishwasher, and a nature guy in Africa, nature study has taken
him to all 50 US states, 80 countries, and the South Pole, along the way you've
seen 6,000 species of birds in the wild, 1,000 kinds of animals, Charles has
been lost in a whiteout in Tibet, contracted and survived bubonic plague, and
published 20 books and over 800 photographs.
(03:59):
I want to talk about all this and cover your whole life story, but we have
limited time, so I don't know where to start, but I know it's not really animal
related, or maybe it is, but I do want to ask, how does someone contract the
bubonic plague?
Alright, I want to encourage our listeners to get a classical education, if you
don't have one yet, it's time to know your history, so we all know there was
(04:20):
bubonic plague, and therefore you should probably know the onsets, you know,
one of the symptoms when it onsets, if you've read a book called The Distant
Mirror, you know, by Barbara Techman.
So I had crawled through a field in Oklahoma, trying to get close to these
lesser prairie chickens, and I had to crawl over a prairie dog mound, and then
of course I came in contact with the fleas from the prairie dogs, so then in
(04:42):
New Mexico, later on the trip, two weeks later, when I get the swollen bubo,
it's like, oh, I know what's happening right now, I know black bile when I see
it, but you know, with modern medicine, what could I, you know, as they say in
Monty Python, I was dead, but I got better.
Also, the bubonic plague isn't as virulent now as it used to be, and that's
simply, you know, like if it killed off all the humans, there'd be no hosts
(05:02):
left, so it is survivable, thank you, partly to antibiotics, and partly to an
education that I knew the symptoms.
Oklahoma, I was reading that, wondering what third world country you're in, but
you're right here in the U.S. Well, we won't insult your audience by saying
that I was in a third world country, but yeah, I was crawling through a field
on my belly over a prairie dog mound, trying to get up on some birds, and
(05:25):
I didn't even see the birds, that's the depressing thing, right, didn't get my
lesser prairie chickens, I think I had bad information on that site.
So you're not an immortal that was born in the 1700s?
Yeah, we don't talk about my vampiric origins, that's for a different station.
Great, well, I'm really excited to have you on the show, you sent me a copy
(05:47):
of your new book that's coming out, right, it's not released yet?
Well, that's always a softie, you know, it's in a warehouse somewhere, if you
go on Amazon, I'm sure someone can find it.
All right.
You know, Nature at Night is out there somewhere.
Nature at Night, here, I have a copy, I'm pulling in my hand, this is an
audio podcast, but I'll post a video clip of this, but yeah, I was looking
through this, this is, first of all, it's great information, great book,
(06:08):
visually stunning, the photographs and everything are just beautiful.
Well, you're very kind, one of the things about the book that, here, I'll hold
my copy closer to the microphone so your listening audience can see it better,
one of the things we tried to do was to never have a deer in the
headlights, we all know that cliche, but it's also true, right, that an animal
too over lit, or if you've been at a party and someone had a flash cube
(06:28):
on their camera way back in the day, we all had red eyes, so this is
fashion model lighting brought to the rainforest and used like with bats, so if
I was with researchers and we're catching bats in nets and handling them for
scientific purposes, I would take a picture, but I was traveling with extra
duffel bags, as everybody would imagine, like for Vogue magazine, they don't
(06:49):
just take your camera out and start shooting, they've got soft, wrapped,
diffused light, and I was using that trick to make nature less fearsome, to be
honest, you know, like to try to get a really, if I can use this word,
a sexy picture of a snake, or a really kind of flattering picture of a bat,
because we have so many misperceptions about the night.
I agree, and is that because, you know, most people are asleep at night, they
(07:12):
don't know what's going on around them in their own backyards at night, they
have a misconception of what these animals are up to?
Well, particularly in North America and even in Europe, I think we've been
trained to fear the night, because it's profitable for certain companies to
tell us that we need security lights and motion-triggered lights, and so we
begin to buy into this idea that if there's no lights, then the bad things are
(07:35):
going to get us, the bad people, the bad animals, the bad vibes, the miasma
that's out there, but the reality is, if, you know, for all of us who are
listening right now, your great-grandfather could walk around in the dark
perfectly fine.
If we go back 50, 100, 150 years, no one could come home from the field
back to the village.
If you couldn't walk by moonlight, you'd just have to sit there and starve.
(07:55):
So we've been told we need lights, but really we don't.
Good point.
So you've already covered a little brief stories talking about taking photos of
bats and crawling through chicken poop, you know, animal stories, but talking
about this, when you're writing and taking photographs for this book, Nature at
Night, any particular stories or incidents that stand out that you can recall?
(08:18):
So for those of you who are bird watchers, you know people keep lists, a trip
list, a year list, a yard list, and then there are mammal watchers who keep
lists, and they're a smaller group, but nonetheless just as dedicated.
So I've been blessed to be invited along with some of the top mammal watchers
in the world as they go on their expeditions.
So we went to Gabon in West Africa to look for the giant pangolin.
(08:40):
I think a lot of people now heard of pangolin, this sort of scaly anteater from
the old world, but there is a kind that is never seen.
It's in the Congo basin called the giant pangolin, and it's a biggie.
You know, it weighs 80 pounds, it's bigger than a Newfoundland dog, and hardly
ever seen.
Of course, the native trackers see it, and a few researchers have some radio
collared, but the normal tourist never sees them.
(09:02):
So we did an expedition.
We were staying in an abandoned village, abandoned research station, no
electricity, no, you know, just drinking out of the rivers and bathing there
and hiking in the forest at night, and the guards who took us around, the
trackers, were saying, run, run, run in French, which I don't speak all that
well, but I know run in French.
(09:22):
And then I thought, oh, the elephants are after us, because there are now two
species of elephants in Africa that's been split apart.
The regular grassland savannah elephant that everyone sees on safari in Kenya,
which is relatively benign, and you know, you kind of predict what it's going
to do, but then the other species now is the rainforest, or the West African
elephant, and it is a little bit more temperamental, and it really, when it
(09:44):
sees a human, it just thinks, oh, I think I'll smush that, smoosh that thing
flat.
There's a person, I'll just run out and smoosh it.
That seems to be their sort of reaction, and so they are actually a legitimate
threat, and so when the trackers are saying, run, run, run, and we were really
trying to conserve our flashlight batteries, because we were staying in a camp
with no electricity, so we had rechargeable batteries, so like sort of every
(10:05):
third person had his or her light on in the dimmest setting, and I'm trying to
run through the rainforest of Gabon at night with no flashlight, thinking,
well, you know, if I have to die, I guess this is as good a way
to go as any other, you know, like, better, I suppose, this and that.
They can say I died, but I'm doing what I like.
But then we get there, and the trackers had found a giant pangolin, and that
was the great thing, and we were trying to get a picture of it, and I
(10:26):
have to confess, we did something a little bit bad.
They tried to grab the pangolin by its tail.
Two trackers, these are very athletic people.
They could be, you know, playing on the NFL team.
They could not deter that animal.
It was just like, I'm going over here now, and it just flings them off with
its tail, off into the darkness, and off it goes.
But there it was.
We saw a giant pangolin.
They do exist.
(10:47):
That's fascinating.
Yeah, I can imagine, because they're all pretty much muscle, and just having
about 60 pounds, a pangolin, yeah, smaller South African version, you know, and
they're, you know, just tight little balls of muscle.
But yeah, that's a lot of animals to try to hold.
Yeah, it's almost prehistoric.
If you know about giant ground sloths or something, they have these immense
(11:08):
digging talons on their front feet and so on.
So, yay for going out with people that are, A, determined to see things, and B,
can make the connections up with the researchers.
That's great.
Yeah, and being in Africa myself a few times, I know if your trackers or guides
say run, you don't question them.
Sure, right.
You just go off what they're.
And if they say it's up in the bushes, like, oh, okay, it's up there somewhere.
(11:31):
I just need to keep looking until I can see what they see.
Oh, they can see, you know, a small little mammal, you know, 60 miles away in
a bush somewhere, and they got great vision.
They do it every day.
They know what they're doing.
Yes, it's really sort of depressing.
It's not pretty good, actually, and even though I wear glasses, I'm pretty good
sight, but I'm nothing compared to them.
Oh, my gosh.
(11:53):
Yeah, well, at least you would have been trampled by an elephant, though.
You would have had an exciting obituary.
Yes, someone can write that one up for me.
I don't mind, yeah.
That's great.
So, I'm guessing that was one of the bucket list animals that you got to see.
Sure, you know, there are 6,000 species of mammals, and the top, top, top, top
(12:14):
person of all, John Hall.
Hi, John Hall.
He's seen 2,400, something like that.
The rest of us are at the 1,000 mark, you know.
He works for the UN, so I always say he's got a, it's not a fair
advantage.
He has to travel for work, but he's also just very, very dedicated, more so
even than I am.
I have a friend that just came back from the Congo.
It's, there's a little small group, but they're like the most hardcore bird
(12:36):
watchers.
They want to do it all the time, and if it, you know, if they have
to work occasionally, that seems to be a nuisance they'll put up with or, you
know, show up for their family once in a while, but they're out there in the
field most of the time, and I do go with them.
In Nicaragua, we saw a species of bat that had never been seen alive before.
I went out with the bat people, and it was known only from a skull, and
so we trapped it and deduced it must be this one, photographed it, got a DNA
(13:00):
sample, which is, which is waiting, awaiting publication still.
So, yeah, make, okay, this is for your listeners.
Find some friends, and then make sure they're rich friends.
It really helps to have rich friends, because some of this stuff is really
expensive, like the thermal scopes we use at night to look for, you know, the
body heat of an animal, the signature, the thermal signature of an animal,
those are thousands of dollars.
(13:21):
You definitely want a rich friend when it comes time to buy your heat scope.
Oh, well, if there's any listeners out there who are rich, who need a friend, I
can volunteer my services.
Yeah, Mike is volunteering his services, y'all.
Right, yeah.
I'm sure Charles might be available as well.
Yes, I'm a good guy.
I travel well, I take good pictures.
(13:41):
I guarantee I'll get you a really sexy picture for your YouTube page, for your
website page.
Yeah, I don't know how many mammals I've seen, probably not nearly as many as
you as your friends.
I just started recently, keeping track of my bird species.
A few episodes ago, I was talking to Chris Mortenson, who's the host of All
Creatures podcast, and he was bird shaming me because we both use the eBird
app.
Do you use the eBird?
(14:02):
Yes, yes.
And I have, you know, I just started kind of keeping track.
So I have like 30 species that I observed.
So since then, I've been building up, I'm almost to 100 now.
So we'll see over the next few years how, how high you can get up to.
But I gotta get out of my little pocket here in Southern California and start
checking out other parts of the country and other countries to get those
(14:23):
numbers up.
Well, you know, Mike, shame on you, indeed, because Southern California, you
know, they did a weekend in Los Angeles County, they did a weekend count two
weeks ago, I think it was, and they had a bad year, they only had 265
species from Friday, Saturday and Sunday, collectively, everybody's lists put
together.
But yes, you're around a lot of things.
(14:45):
I'm far from professional, it's pure amateur here, but I'll get up there.
It's addictive.
So I actually don't recommend it.
If you have an addictive personality, don't take up bird listing.
It's it never ends.
Because then even after you've seen all the birds, you still want to see, you
know, the for this year, or this month or this location.
Yeah, so I think I'm officially what they call at bird watching age.
(15:10):
So let's go back to nature at night.
So you discover, you know, you're you're roaming through or taking photos of
different regions, different areas under the ocean.
Do you get to do any of those photographies or scuba diving?
I'm a reasonably good researcher.
So if I can't find a picture, I know someone who took it.
I do have a good picture.
And that's in the book that I'm proud of.
There's a dolphin leaping out of the water that actually tells us a lot about
(15:32):
nature at night under the ocean.
So here's the backstory.
The biggest migration in the world is not the Serengeti and it's not the
caribou up in Alaska.
It is the oceans of the world.
Trillions, trillions, trillions of organisms are moving up and down thousands
of feet at a time from the daytime, where they're down in the darker depths, up
(15:53):
to the nighttime when they want to feed on the surface.
So phytoplankton, they need sunlight.
They're the little planty things in the ocean.
And so they're up at the surface all the time.
But things that want to eat the phytoplankton, the sort of graze the grass, so
to speak, they don't want to get eaten by anything else.
So they come up at night.
And that means that the things that are following them are coming up and things
that are following them that are coming up.
We all can imagine the food chain here.
(16:13):
And one of the things that is participating in this vertical migration every
day are the cookie cutter sharks.
These are about a foot and a half long.
They kind of look like a big slug or a big eel or something.
And they've got a completely circular mouth full of very, very sharp teeth.
And as animals are coming from the lower depths to the higher depths, these
cookie cutter sharks dart in and grab a mouthful of flesh, twist in a circle
(16:36):
and peel away and grab that outer layer of epidermis and maybe some muscle and
fat, whatever they've gotten.
And we can see their actions on dolphins because dolphins are chasing nocturnal
squid.
Of course, dolphins have echolocation.
They don't care whether it's daytime or nighttime.
So most dolphins are feeding at night.
They're feeding on these squid that are following the little animals that are
following the other little animals.
(16:57):
And the cookie cutter sharks are coming in.
And so I got a picture of a leaping dolphin in Indonesia.
And it had these sort of starfish shaped scars down its side, like little
rosettes, like little wedding corsages all down its legs.
Like what the heck is that all about?
That's not a barnacle.
And then I realized, oh, those are healed cookie cutter shark bites that it got
chasing the squid at night.
(17:19):
Yeah, I hope that all made sense to your listeners.
A little bit complicated ecosystem stuff going on there.
But we do have some pictures also of the dolphins underwater at night.
I didn't take that picture.
Luckily, my editors were able to work with me on locating the people that have
the right pictures.
But thank you.
You're very kind to even bring it up.
Yeah, I'm actually I found that page right now as you're talking of the dolphin
leaping and the cookie cutter shark right next to it.
(17:42):
Those things are I would not want that mouth around any part of me that looks
gnarly.
Yeah, it's a very nasty looking kind of thing.
You know, if your audience wants to look it up.
Yeah, they do.
They're a little bit alien, like alien, like they're a little creepy.
And there's a picture in the book of a submarine how we found out about cookie
cutter sharks.
They were unknown to science.
(18:03):
But the American submarines in the 1970s were losing their radar capability
because something was gnawing on the neoprene housing that covered the
electronics.
And it turned out, you know, research revealed that it was the cookie cutter
sharks.
They thought the neoprene on the submarine was like a really big, juicy whale
with one soft spot, a hard whale with a soft spot.
And they were biting the submarines and wrecking all this equipment.
(18:25):
And now we know more about them.
And now our submarines are different, too.
Wow.
I would imagine, yeah, especially just nature under the water, even at night or
during any time we know so very little about.
I imagine at night there's even less that we know about.
Sure.
For those who are listening, who want to, you know, you're looking for your Ph
.D. project, I always recommend.
Can you please explain to us why some of the mammals glow in the dark, which
(18:47):
is something we've only learned about recently?
Platypuses, for example, in Australia, if you have a UV flashlight, which, of
course, you want so you can see scorpions, they glow in the dark.
But you take your UV flashlight and as the platypus swims by, or in the case
of North America, as the flying squirrel glides by at night, they glow under a
UV flashlight.
They don't actually glow without the flashlight, but they do glow.
(19:10):
And you also need those flashlights to see glow in the dark lichen, which is
how the flying squirrels were discovered to be glowing in the dark.
Because some botanists were out at night looking for glow in the dark lichen
with their UV flashlight and then a squirrel flew by.
They go, wow, that squirrel is glowing hot pink.
What's going on with that?
And then they go to the museum.
So there is a Ph.D. dissertation waiting to happen.
(19:30):
One of your listeners should do this and figure out how many animals glow in
the dark and why.
Because we don't know.
We would like to know, but we don't know.
Yeah, two questions I would love to know the answer to, especially why.
I mean, even scorpions, too.
You got some scorpions.
I have actually have one in the house that my son has that we have a
little UV light.
We can glow on it and see it just pop.
All scorpions glow in the dark with UV light.
(19:52):
Just a $10 light from Amazon will do that.
And there are some more expensive kinds of flashlights, too.
There's lots of theories, of course.
It may be that it just helps them with photosensitivity to give a sense that
from moonlight they're out in the open.
It's part of their receptor.
Their whole exoskeleton is sort of absorbing this moonlight.
And they realize, I need to get undercover.
I'm kind of exposed here with the flying squirrels.
(20:15):
Maybe it helps them with vitamin D in some kind of a way, because they are
nocturnal.
There are three species of flying squirrels here in North America, and they
don't flap their wings like a bird, of course, but they glide from tree to
tree.
And they are nocturnal, so maybe it's helping with some type of vitamin
deficiency.
But no, we're waiting.
Your listeners are going to...
Anyone listening to this program, they're into it, right?
(20:37):
They're going to tell us.
They're going to tell us what's going on.
I hope so.
Well, my listeners, find the answer and then contribute it to the Wild Tales
podcast.
We'll put you on air for an hour and mention your name a lot.
That's all I want in my life.
So how did you get interested in this, wildlife in general, wildlife at night?
What was the inspiration for this book?
(21:00):
I'm lucky in that I'm from a different generation maybe than some of our
youngest, youngest listeners.
My parents loved me.
I'm sure we did everything right.
But hey, as long as you're back by dinner, you don't get arrested, go do your
thing.
You've got a bike, go do your thing.
So I could be out exploring on my own along the...
I grew up in East LA, so along the Los Angeles River or sneaking into the
(21:21):
zoo through the back, a hole in the fence in the back.
I just had some freedom of movement.
So I always associate nature with pleasure and with independence and with
knowledge and sometimes fear.
I would scare myself when I saw a snake I wasn't prepared for.
But to me, it's a place to be at home.
And I don't really think about, oh, that I don't belong there.
(21:42):
I think I don't belong there more likely when I'm trying to park.
Like in Santa Monica or something.
Well, they don't want me here.
Look, there's no parking signs.
I'm the wrong guy for them.
But nature, I never feel that.
I always feel somehow welcome, even if it's hot and humid and I don't like the
humidity, but I never feel excluded.
And I don't know how to share that with everybody.
It's our birthright.
We get to do it.
(22:02):
Let's go out and have some fun.
It's free.
Go out for a hike.
It's free.
Absolutely.
It's free.
You never know what you're going to find.
You go on the same hike every day for a year and see something different every
day when it comes to nature, different plants, animals, bugs, birds, wildlife,
bobcats.
You never know.
Right.
And then if you do the same trail that you've done during the day at night
with a friend, with a backup flashlight, I always say bring two flashlights.
(22:25):
If you've ever lost your car keys or dropped your glasses or something.
If you bring one flashlight, you're bound to drop it in the stream.
That's inevitable or your batteries are going to die.
Bring a backup flashlight.
You'll never need it, but have it there.
And maybe go with a friend if you're a little bit worried about your security
or your orientation.
But yeah, you're going to see whether it's the glow-in-the-dark lichen or where
you see a bobcat or a coyote or in the summer, the snakes are more likely
(22:48):
to be out at night just because it's a little bit cooler.
And so they're trying to respond to that or the prey is out.
The mice are out.
Sure.
You're bound to see something or smell something, hear something.
We get to turn off our vision a little bit at night and use our other
senses.
So that's part of the pleasure, smelling all the different aromas that are
coming out of the little bit higher humidity at night.
So often the plants are a bit more aromatic.
(23:09):
Yeah.
Give it a try.
It's fun.
Yeah.
So how did this passion for animals and wildlife take you from East LA to the
South Pole and Africa, all these different countries?
I'm the guy who says, fill out the little piece of paper.
So for example, for your audience, I am a retired English professor and
professor emeritus, blah, blah, blah.
(23:29):
But I have a sort of secret hidden life of outdoor travel and outdoor nature.
And I always fill out the piece of paper.
I wanted to go to Papua New Guinea to see the birds.
And I was a student.
I didn't have any money.
But then I found out the Fulbright program, they'll send people, they'll send
American citizens abroad.
So I said, you know, what's really essential right now for the world is for us
(23:50):
to translate this tribal poetry before it disappears.
You need to send me to Papua New Guinea.
I'm an expert in ethnopoetics, which was sort of true and sort of not true
exactly.
I was expert adjacent.
I'm going to go and learn the language and meet these people and capture their
material on the page because I'm really good at that in a way that's sensitive
to their oral traditions.
I won't superimpose my Western literary canon on them.
(24:13):
I'll find an organic way of expressing themselves.
And you all need to send me there.
And as one of my professors said when he was writing my recommendation, he
says, be careful, you may have to go.
And so sure enough, I went to Papua New Guinea.
And, you know, to give a mouse a cookie for those of you who have taught
that book to your children, to give a mouse a cookie.
Well, then I'm going to want to go to Antarctica.
If you send me to New Guinea, someone's going to pay me to go to the
(24:34):
South Pole.
It's not like a place I can go on my own, really.
So, yes, one thing has led to another over the years of Borneo and Tibet and
Madagascar, mostly on my own.
Mostly I had to pay for it myself through teaching overtime, teaching extra
classes.
If we're going to be honest about it, to get the money, I worked a lot
of extra hours.
I can relate.
(24:54):
And, you know, if there's a place you want to go, if there's a will, there's
a way.
And if you don't have, you know, if you're not rich, you don't have that money
in the bank, find a way.
I've always, when I was a kid, always wanted to travel to Africa.
That was my goal.
And then I got to do that through a grant to work with the Draft Conservation
Foundation.
And that was like, I was 30 as first time I got to go.
I'm like, this is it.
(25:14):
This will just feed that need.
I went to Kenya, spent a few weeks there, came back.
But no, I'm like, that wasn't, it's like a drug.
You know, it's like, now I got to go back.
That's just one country.
There's so many.
I went back, I've been to Namibia, and I'm hoping to go back some more.
But, you know, you find, if you're clever, you can find other people to fund
your trips for you.
(25:35):
Absolutely.
And that's funny, because I went to Kenya for my first Sub-Saharan Africa trip.
And when I was 30, it just took that long for all the, you know, family
relations and everything to line up.
And I remember when I booked that trip, I was sort of hugging myself in the
mirror, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to leave, you know, in six weeks and go
to Kenya.
This is amazing.
And then when I got there, it was every bit as amazing.
For those who haven't gone yet, y'all, it's like, it's exactly like what it
(25:58):
looks like, you know, in the TV show, you see a secretary bird or a giraffe
even, you know, wow, this is so much better than a zoo.
Nothing against zoos.
I want to take my kids to zoos, but like, come on, my grandkids too.
But like, come on now, the real thing is so much better.
Oh, yeah.
Something about just seeing animals in their natural environment.
So yeah, I work at a zoo.
(26:18):
So yeah, nothing against zoos.
I'm always a big zoo supporter, but I'll be driving through the zoo.
And we're next to, you know, the city park.
And we drive past, you know, all these, you know, animals that we have on
display, like, oh, yeah, we see every day kind of unnoticed.
But we see a wild deer on the other side of the fence in the park,
we got to stop like, oh, look, it's a deer.
And it's just a different setting.
It's just animal in its own world.
(26:38):
And it's like, just, it's different.
And it's just so engaging.
You shared with your audience the P-22 story in the LA Zoo.
Have we had that on air?
I have not.
Do you want to tell it or shall I?
A koala.
Yeah, they did not come in and graze on it.
I just think I'm, I'm nothing against the zoos.
You know, I just think it's, it's, that's where nature will find a way.
(27:02):
So, yes, I remember, yeah, being at the zoo, we were all shocked of all the
animals all like the small gazelle and deer like and all the, you know,
mountain lion, prey looking animals.
They pick the koala right?
Why a koala?
How do they even recognize that a koala would be food?
But yeah, after that, you know, we know, you know, shade on P-22, he's doing
(27:24):
what cougars do.
And so we just did a better job after that to protect our animals.
And that was the only, only animal that he was able to get from, from our
zoo.
Apparently, yeah, for those of you who don't know, P-22 is the now deceased
famous puma from Griffith Park in Los Angeles that crossed all the freeways to
end up in a relatively small area and then was mostly eating mule deer.
(27:45):
And I apparently ate a gray fox once, at least once.
So yeah, nothing against the LA Zoo.
And it's a place I've spent many, I've been at that zoo more times than any
other zoo.
You know, I grew up on the, in East LA and also along the LA River
in Atwater.
I've been there many more times than the San Diego Zoo.
So we wish to support our zoos.
But I have to, I have to say, when you see the same animals, lemurs or
(28:08):
anything in true nature, quote unquote, true nature, you know, woo, your little
heart goes pitter pat.
Ah, I agree.
So, um, this is a great story.
It's great talking to y'all.
I hope I didn't get you back on the show again.
But in the meantime, Nature by Night, where can our listeners look for this
book?
Where can they order it, pre-order it?
It's from a company called Timber Press, which is in Portland, Oregon.
(28:29):
And they have a website or any bookstore for those of you who remember what
those look like.
Better to support your local bookstore and ask for Nature at Night there than
to go through Amazon.
But if Amazon is your, is how you get your books, who am I to judge?
So it's, yeah, it's out now.
It's called Nature at Night.
And thank you for mentioning the photographs.
I'm pretty happy with how the book looks.
It's a pretty snappy looking publication.
(28:51):
You should be.
It's gorgeous.
Nature at Night, discover the hidden worlds that come alive after dark by
Charles Hood.
Charles, thank you for being on Wild Tales.
And, uh, can't wait to see what you have in store for us in the future.
Thank you so much.
This has been great fun.
Thank you.
All right, man.
Take care.
(29:12):
Hey, I want to give a big thanks to Charles Hood for coming on the podcast
today.
He just seems like a really cool dude.
I think I could hang with him, have a few beers, tell some stories.
He seems like he's lived a life.
He's actually one of the first guests, actually the first guests I've had on
Wild Tales, who I have not known previously, because that's what you do when
(29:32):
you start a podcast.
You start by inviting your friends on and people, to help you out.
Now, thanks to you, all my loyal listeners, words getting out and I'm getting
to interview people who I don't know.
People that live fascinating lives and do interesting things and write
fascinating books.
So yeah, please check out Nature at Night by Charles Hood.
(29:54):
Check it out wherever you find books.
I highly recommend supporting.
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