July 25, 2024 • 72 mins
In this captivating episode, we delve into the historic bout between boxing legend Muhammad Ali and Japanese wrestling superstar Antonio Inoki. Taking place on June 26, 1976, this match was not just a spectacle but a groundbreaking event that bridged the worlds of professional boxing and wrestling.
We explore the technological marvel of closed-circuit television that allowed fans across the United States to witness the event live from Tokyo, Japan. Discover the behind-the-scenes negotiations, the cultural impact, and the intricate rules that shaped this unique encounter.
Join us as we revisit the atmosphere of 1976, the anticipation, and the aftermath of a match that left a lasting legacy in both sports and entertainment. From the $6 million challenge to the strategic maneuvers in the ring, this episode offers a comprehensive look at a pivotal moment in combat sports history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:33):
Music.
(00:55):
Basically, junior high, high school. See, it was actually Friday night primetime
program in New York, okay?
So at the time, I didn't understand why it had to be on Saturday morning, 11 o'clock.
Crazy, right? And back in 1976 in Japan, we had school on Saturdays.
(01:21):
You know, like half day until noon-ish. you
know like not a whole program but there was school
like morning school on saturday now it's
saturday and sunday you know it's a two days off and everything but the
way back in back in you know 1976 there was school on saturday morning and just
as soon as this morning you know period is over every kid in school ran home
(01:45):
you know and yeah to be actually it's like a 10 50 in the morning,
like 11 o'clock in the morning,
that meant 9.50 at night in New York City.
So it was for the American television, you know.
Not exactly television. It was actually like, there was no such thing as pay-per-view
(02:05):
yet. It was closed circuit.
Closed circuit. You know?
The technology of closed circuit was pretty new then, right?
I can't think of many things before that were on closed circuit.
Yeah, in wrestling, actually, like a historical closed circuit program was Freddie
(02:27):
Blassie against John Tallis from Los Angeles, you know.
But other than that, yeah, it's got Olympic, you know.
And let alone, pay-per-view wasn't the technology yet in the closed circuit.
And what they were saying is...
That the satellite beamed, right? You know, like before the satellite dish or
(02:51):
anything like that, you know, it was beamed back and forth from the States in Japan.
The only time they used such technology was for the Olympic or presidential
election or something like that, right? Yeah.
And they were saying, according to one source, it was beamed or that the closed
circuit was like aired, like in movie theaters, 250 cities in America.
(03:16):
Then some, you know, formed, they said, 170 cities.
So it has to be between either 170 cities in America or 250 cities.
It depends on what you're in. But it was all over America.
And it was basically closed circuit programming for America because of Muhammad Ali, huh, probably?
(03:36):
Sure. I mean, of course. More so than Antonio Inoki, yeah. Nobody knew who Antonio Inoki was, really.
Up until then. Outside of pro wrestling.
Oh, even for pro wrestling crowd in America, Antonio Inoki was still relatively
unknown up until that day.
And even if they didn't know the name Antonio Inoki, years before that,
(03:58):
I mean, years after that, oh, the Japanese wrestler who fought Muhammad Ali,
oh, that guy, right? Yeah.
And actually, it was for American programming. and mostly movie theater.
But like in Houston, Texas, you know, at the Houston Coliseum,
the main event at the Houston Coliseum was Terry Funk, then NWA champion, against Rocky Johnson.
(04:23):
That's, you know, Dwayne Johnson's dad.
NWA title match main event. Then after the main event, the movie feed come in
and show Muhammad Ali and Inoki.
In Chicago, there was Vern Gagne against Nick Parkwinkle and something like
a bruiser and crusher against Big Bad Bobby Duncombe and so and so.
In Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium, there's another card to feature.
(04:47):
And also at the Shea Stadium in New York City.
The feature was actually Bruno Sammartino, return of Bruno Sammartino against Stan Delarion Hansen.
And the mixed fight before there was a term such as MMA, it wasn't invented
until late 90s into 2000. So.
(05:10):
Shea Stadium, the main attraction was return of Bruno San Martino against Stan
Delariat Hanson, you know, months before
that at the Madison Square Garden storyline, but it was an accident.
But still, Bruno San Martino broke his neck, you know, and it was basically
storyline done by younger Stan Hanson's Delariat.
(05:34):
But it was main attraction at the Shea Stadium was two matches,
which is Bruno San Martino against Stan Hansen and mixed fight before there was such a term as MMA,
the heavyweight boxing, not the champion, but the heavyweight famous boxer,
Chuck Wepner, I guess, under the giant. Yeah.
(05:56):
So those are two things. And at the Shea Stadium, right in the middle of second
base or something, you know, you put a big screen screen to show the live beam
from Japan, Tokyo, Japan,
Muhammad Ali against Antonio Inoki.
Then actually like, Vern Gagne is, you know, tried to switch that into Bruno
(06:20):
against Muhammad Ali. That never happened, but you know what I'm saying?
Yeah. And actually the promoter who was in charge of the American promotion
and all the closed circuit thing, it was Ben Jr., today's Vincent Kennedy, McMahon.
Yeah. Interesting, huh? And all over the country.
(06:42):
But little did we know in Japan that why would they do that on Saturday morning?
You know what I'm saying? It was the beginning. Friday night, primetime program.
Yeah, Friday night, primetime programming from East Coast.
But because it was, you know, closed circuit, new technology,
(07:03):
closed circuit business, the whole thing was real huge.
Not boxing business, but wrestling business, which Muhammad Ali was involved. It's so huge, right?
See, Muhammad Ali at the time, 34, Antonio Inoki being 33.
And it was two years after Muhammad Ali's super famous Kinshasa that Muhammad
(07:26):
Ali got the title back from, you know, George Foreman.
It was super, super famous.
And they did the closed circuit for that too because that's from Congo, the African country.
They did that three o'clock in the morning over there for prime time in America.
(07:48):
And books and books been written about this Ali, you know, former fight.
What I'm trying to get to is that 1976 version of Muhammad Ali was obvious in his prime.
Yeah, very much so. And 34 years old, Inoki 33.
And what they were saying was professional boxing's world heavyweight champion
(08:09):
against pro wrestling's world heavyweight champion collides.
At the time, Anthony Inoki was NWF World Heavyweight Champion of New Japan.
Yeah. I mean, years, years before IWGP.
Yeah. And he, that was kind of the calling card for New Japan back then.
(08:31):
That was the, that was what it was all about, right?
The strong style challenges. Is my strong style better than your boxing or than
your other martial arts?
Yeah, but that's something that could never actually take place.
You know what I'm saying? You can talk about it.
A wrestler would actually have a fight against Muhammad Ali like a comic book fight, right?
(08:57):
It actually started a year prior to that, 1975, that Muhammad Ali had a title
defense at the Kuala Lumpur or somewhere in Asia, okay?
And wherever Muhammad Ali went, you know, the press, right?
Photographers and reporters, you know. And one little comment,
(09:18):
one little comment Muhammad Ali made, you know, on his way to Asia,
that is there any Asian Oriental fighter who could fight me?
I mean, it is one of the Muhammad Ali's jogging, right?
I mean, she talked, you know, always.
But it's a useless tribute. But Muhammad Ali's all those like almost like wrestling
(09:40):
promo thing, it was inspired by professional wrestling.
But there's two stories to it. I don't want to get off track on today's subject,
Antonio Inoki against Muhammad Ali, but it is very well known that Muhammad
Ali does promo. He talked, right?
None of the professional boxers was giving promo promo, but Muhammad Ali was natural.
(10:06):
But he admitted and he was telling people that he was inspired by professional wrestling.
And all these years up until then, He thought it was inspired by a black and
white TV wrestling that he watched as a kid.
And Ali himself thought it was gorgeous Jewish.
Okay. But Ali growing up in Louisville, Kentucky, right?
(10:32):
Unless, I mean, only rich people had TV sets, right? He wasn't widespread yet. Not until later on.
Yeah, because he was born in 1943, you know.
Then war was 1942 when he
was three years old world war ii ended
and tv boom starts like
(10:53):
1948 49 and the very first television star gorgeous george right but he was
gorgeous george was basically based in california and there was you know not
like your nbc abc cbs affiliates and all
these, you know, local stations around the country,
(11:14):
all the other local stations and network affiliates, that doesn't start in the
50s and mid-50s, you know.
So nobody was sure that what Muhammad Ali actually thought he watched.
He thought it was Gorgeous George, but nobody could confirm that because Gorgeous
George's TV didn't quite get to Louisville, Kentucky.
(11:38):
Right. then yeah then he kind of you know start talking but he really watched,
This blonde hair, black and white TV, blonde hair professional wrestler was giving promo, right?
And he remembered that. But he wasn't necessarily a big wrestling fan.
And he assumed he was Gorgeous George.
(12:00):
But he could have been Freddie Blass.
Same type, blonde hair, same era, and same kind of early, early wrestling promo, you know?
And including Dave Meltzer and other historians and researchers that where did
(12:20):
Ali actually watch wrestling television?
And pretty much concluded that Ali must have watched this when he was traveling with amateur boxing.
See, he represented the 1960 London Olympic and got the gold medal, right?
(12:42):
Well, he grew up in poor family and he probably wasn't traveling until then, right?
And he watched television on some Las Vegas hotel room and insisted that that's
where he got the idea of like talking to camera and whatever.
I mean, with the come up, I mean, like an office head that he just gave promo
(13:05):
because it's natural, right?
But he was inspired by this blonde hair professional wrestler.
In Las Vegas that seemed like that year and that around the time the main event
was which is interesting the main event of that television that night seems to be,
Freddie Blassie against Gorgeous George so no conclusion he might have watched.
(13:31):
Gorgeous George, he might have watched Freddie Blassie the reason I'm talking
about this was that 1976 1976, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Noki fight.
WWF, WWWF at the time, Vince McMahon, dad and son.
Vince McMahon Sr. put Freddie Blassie with Muhammad Ali on the plane.
(13:54):
And as he landed on Haneda Airport, Freddie Blassie started marching and started
giving, you know, promo, right?
Just as much as Muhammad Ali would. and those two spent time together all week
in the Kiyo Plaza Hotel in Shinjuku.
And Freddie Blassie insisted that what you watched as a kid must be me.
(14:18):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, all those years that Muhammad Ali thought he watched Gorgeous George wrestling,
early, early Gorgeous George television and he was so sure that it was Gorgeous George television.
Going back to this timeline and where he was and where Freddie Blassie was,
Freddie Blassie was so sure that
(14:40):
what you have watched was Freddie Blassie instead of, but no conclusion.
And I'll leave it to the, I don't know, more research. Sure.
But Freddie Blassie, Gorgeous George gone, Freddie Blassie gone,
now Muhammad Ali gone, you know, Anthony Yannick is gone. and it will be forever to debate, huh?
(15:04):
Yeah, but also I think it makes sense he would say that, right?
Because Fred Blassie, Gorgeous George, Nature Boys later on. Very similar.
It was kind of, that's the idea. It's easy to misremember. Bleach, yeah.
If you're not a serious wrestling fan, just TV view.
(15:26):
Wrestling was always popular programming. early on on television.
And when the TV became color, it was pretty popular.
And the cable TV came along, wrestling again, right?
And pay-per-view programming in 90s, wrestling was killer content.
Now that the wrestling is shifting into internet streaming.
(15:50):
You see, wrestling has always been on top of this technology.
Yeah. Agree? Because it wants to distribute to the most amount of people.
So it has to be kind of in front. Yeah, but why not rock concert?
Why not rock concert? Why not boxing? Why not football?
You know, it seems to me it's always wrestling.
(16:13):
Well, production will always have another level of control versus sports.
Television demo, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Yeah, demography and TV viewer right between white color and blue color,
you know, that cannot cater to all, you know, blue color audience,
(16:38):
but it's not for all white color audience.
TVs for a wide variety of audiences.
For some reason, wrestling always get on TV station, always cable station,
and then in the pay-per-view market.
Now all the wrestling is moving towards live streaming on your laptop or even
(17:01):
a smartphone, and wrestling is such.
But get back to this, you know, Anthony Inoki against Muhammad Ali fight,
because it's actually, it's more important now than it actually was then.
I think so. It was important and a real big thing then.
But it was actually for not
(17:24):
more educated audience for mixed martial arts or what would happen if professional
boxer and professional wrestler went against each other, what would be the rules?
And actually you know like 40 years after the actual fight you know I brought
(17:48):
this today oh nice it's it's a DVD.
146 minutes all 15 rounds no editing,
first round to 15 rounds of Inoki-Mohamed Ali fight and TV special a few days
before that you know the TV he had a you know basically press conference and
(18:12):
signing contracts thing,
but it was interesting enough to have this network primetime special just for
that press conference, you know.
And that's in it. And all 15 rounds,
2014, it finally came out with this booklet, you know, all these booklet and
(18:36):
reproduction of them. Poster?
1976 poster because it was not just for wrestling magazine and sports you know
sports pages sports paper that if you know for the younger audience over there out there.
If you live in Japan every train station subway station there's a newsstand
(19:00):
and you pick up tabloids evening paper yeah Two days as ever. Yeah.
Ah, yeah, yeah. Oh, kiosks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Magazines are everywhere.
Newspapers are everywhere.
More reading-oriented people, I guess, basically. And on the train and subways, you know.
(19:23):
Not anymore, you know, even middle-aged, you know, that the business managers,
what they have is smart phone on the train and subway now.
But all through, I don't know, post-war, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s,
into 90s, you know, until maybe five, six years ago, people are reading newspaper
on trains and subways, right?
(19:44):
Every paper every tabloid every
sports pages and evening news and magazine
or even comic book you know like a shonen magazine time another
and that comic book covered all the stories you know leading into inoki ali
fight you know it was going to be the greatest thing ever you know your hero
(20:05):
antonio inoki the wrestler would be fighting you know muhammad ali the greatest
boxer or greatest athlete ever lived.
And there was a, you know, the cartoon illustration of Inoki giving suplex or
something to Muhammad Ali and they expected that all the full contact match would happen.
(20:26):
And it was iffy, iffy situation, right?
Because Inoki all along was going to have mixed fight, you know?
And it was more difficult out and
like close to impossible to
actually convince Muhammad Ali people
to actually come into Japan and have a match against professional wrestler and
(20:53):
obviously professional boxing you know like commissions and you know WBA the
WBC that there was no IBF or world boxing organization or anything like that,
just two groups, WBC and WBA.
Anyhow, they don't sanction anything but boxing and they don't want boxers to
(21:14):
be participating in anything but boxing.
You know what I'm saying? Very, very, boxing people, very, very strict.
And almost that it came out from Inoki's, you know, like the top of the head idea.
Ali made comment publicly at the press conference, is there any Asian or Oriental
(21:37):
fighter who can fight me, right?
And it was nothing to it. It's just a conversation piece at one press conference, right?
Then it made news in Japan.
And Inoki read it and said, we could do this.
You know what I'm saying? Then the first, but nobody knew how to get a hold
(22:00):
of Ali's, like core Ali people.
I mean, like layers and layers of network of people until you actually get to Muhammad Ali Khan.
And the first group of people in Japan, I mean, Inoki's people and TV Asahi
tried to get to was like Nations Islam or something that Ali's church.
(22:20):
The Nation of Islam, it was an organization that he was a part of back then, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Based out of the United States. Cassius Clay, yeah.
Cassius Clay changed name, and he was baptized into Islam, Muslim.
And that was a church Japanese people first got to, probably like hoping that
(22:45):
you actually get to Ali's manager or close associates and all these things.
And actually, you know, because one of the managers went to, you know, Ali's.
Press conference and brought the letter from enoki on
the fight you know this thought it was stunt right stunt
you know nothing more than stunt and at least people told you know enoki's people
(23:09):
that all right six million dollar six million dollar you know why it was six
million dollar six million dollar man it was there you go like a joke yeah you
know six million dollar was
outrageous amount of money back in 1970, right?
Yeah. So anything over $6 million. Okay, $6 million and $1.
(23:32):
And Inoki decided to come up with it.
You know what I'm saying? He said it. To give it a little more context,
there was also a show on CBS back then.
It was kind of a superhero show, $6 million man, Steve Austin.
Not the one we're more familiar with.
Wrestler. before him and it was a big it was a hit show,
(23:53):
yeah of course I think $6 million man,
the bionic woman all those shows were so
huge but the $6 million that was a connotation $6 million if you pay so that
was like an image of outrageous amount of money so it was just an off color
comment he just made it on the fly because it wasn't going to happen it wasn't
(24:16):
a serious comment but Inoki took it seriously.
And Inoki and TV Asahi made an offer. Right. All right. We'll be paying $6 million and $1.
Then they thought it was, and still then, Muhammad Ali and his people thought
we're going to Japan for the, like a fun exhibition show.
(24:40):
Boxer against, boxer against professional wrestler. You know,
like a big TV show, you know, nothing serious.
Yeah. So like a.
I wouldn't say easy money, but kind of easy money kind of feeling, right?
Yeah. But Ali would not travel alone, you know, much like boxers and MMA fighter.
They have a whole entourage of people to travel with.
(25:02):
And Inoki and TBSI would be covering all the expenses, you know.
So bring your people over.
And actually, it was the Vince McMahon Jr.
Then, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, you know, At the time, he was in his early 30s.
(25:22):
Doing live broadcasting.
Yeah, that Vince. Introducing the television show. He had bell-bottoms, feathered hair.
And yellow sports jacket.
But it was not an NWA-type wrestling promoter.
It had to come from New York City. You know, and actually it was a time Antonio
(25:50):
Inoki's New Japan Pro Wrestling and Vince McMahon Sr.'s WWWF had a partnership.
Yeah, match made in heaven, you know, American side of the promoter and the production, all WWWF.
And we'll be doing the live satellite dish, you know, satellite feed from Tokyo.
(26:10):
And it was like a huge business and it was going to take place finally.
And months before that Inoki wearing this you know that the kimono jacket and
had a big press conference at the Plaza Hotel in New York and Ali shows up and you know,
I think even at that point, Muhammad Ali thought it was a show, right?
(26:33):
Like a big spectacle, you know, like a movie filming, like Muhammad Ali and
this strong, I mean, superstar Japanese wrestler, wrestler against boxer in
one ring and doing the exhibition.
Yeah. It's a great example of what people, I guess what people didn't or did
(26:53):
realize what was professional wrestling.
What was their idea of it they didn't really have any
idea of i think is the point in this situation oh they
they thought wrestling was always fake right that's
what i'm saying but they didn't exactly know they somebody was crazy enough
to be in the ring no anything really i mean just saying it's fake doesn't really
(27:14):
say anything it just it just shows that there's a process there are so many
different processes actually and it
exposes the kind of general ignorance about pro wrestling to what people were
thinking at that time, right?
And also, like, underestimating the size of wrestling fans, I mean,
(27:35):
like, all over the world. Sure, that they're not just in the United States or something.
Yeah, not just that, but the boxing people always feel that boxing is way above
wrestling. It's superior because it's a sport.
They say. Well, that's what they argue. But you got to realize in the States
(27:58):
versus Japan, the progress.
Japan has general consensus too.
Wrestling is a show. Right. Because
certain things happened over the years that didn't happen in Japan.
That it was allowed to grow in Japan without certain things.
There's a couple things that happened that just changed the trajectory,
(28:19):
excuse me, of... And also, Japanese
wrestling had pretty unique original evolution to it, right? Yeah.
And... Different kind of make-believe.
And it tries to... I would say it sticks to the original formula,
even still to this day, more so than most other kinds of wrestling,
(28:42):
aside from Lucha Libre, which I think is... It's a different beast, so...
They're different beasts. They're different animals. You can't even really talk
about it. I want to bring it up, but it's also like there's so much more to
it that it's like, I'm not an expert on that.
But even within the wrestling, but there was people like Bruno San Martino,
(29:05):
the people in New York believed in. Hero.
New York hero. Yeah, and also- Pennsylvania hero.
There is not another professional sport that comes back.
Every four weeks and pack up Madison Square Garden every month, 12 months in a row,
always over 20,000 people to watch either Bruno San Martino or Pedro Morales
(29:30):
all the way to Bob Backlund to Hulk Hogan. You know what I'm saying?
Wrestling is so underestimated, but it's always been popular, popular.
But this was like a different twist. a champion, crazy enough,
this Japanese martial arts style professional wrestler challenging Muhammad Ali in his prime.
(29:53):
And Inoki, crazy enough to actually step in the ring, right, with Muhammad Ali.
But Ali's people still were thinking that we're going to Japan to have this exhibition.
And even after Ali's people came to Japan and they asked the interpreter and
the TVSI producer, when are we going to have rehearsal?
(30:15):
They said, no, there is not going to be rehearsal.
You're working, right? No, there is not going to be any rehearsal. We're just going there.
Then there was a Korakuen Hall that opened spying, that the practice,
another TV thing that Inoki showing, you know, like working out with then young Fujiwara,
(30:40):
the Osamu Kido, the young Kengo Kimura, they're actually doing the wrestling
in the ring, Ali watching, you know, and Inoki was doing the chops and kicks and all these things.
It's like, I'm not going to let this guy do this.
I mean, Ali's people and Ali himself.
I'm not going to, no karate kick, no karate kicks or chops, you know,
(31:01):
that I'm not going to let him do that.
And then there was actually like serious rule meeting because boxing rules,
the wrestling rules, what can be done or what's allowed
and what's not allowed you know but the boxing
people felt that if wrestling i
(31:22):
mean even if it's a professional wrestling if you
could get a hold boxers and grab the
waist and take them down on the mat you know
or something you know i'm saying i'm not gonna let that happen not gonna let
that happen and no most i mean well boxers are striking right But they would
(31:42):
not let Antonio Inoki use his karate chop or headbutting or,
I mean, no crazy submission.
No strike to the throat. Nothing on the mat.
Yeah. Or the striking to the groin or something. Or no standing kick. Yeah.
No, you have to have your knees on them. I mean, they came up with all kinds of stuff.
(32:07):
You're not going to have a boxer on the mat. Then wrestlers can't wrestle.
You know what I'm saying?
And if it goes into the mat on the ground, you know, then the wrestling,
only 20 seconds allowed.
Both, you know, competitor has to get up.
It's all, every little detail was written. But he was not open to public. Isn't that weird?
(32:32):
That Mr. Keiichi Funabashi, who called the match, you know, in Japan, the play-by-play,
he remembers vividly that he was told what the basic rules are,
but he was never given what Inoki can do and cannot do and what Ari can do and cannot do.
They have to call the match sort of like a play-by-year kind of thing.
(32:55):
It's so weird. but Inoki's whole purpose was to whatever that Ali's people were
saying about the rules or let him do this and that or let him do this,
get Muhammad Ali in that ring you know because couple three times during that
(33:16):
the whole course of the week Ali's people was going to pack up and leave,
when doing it right thinking but they sensed it It was not the exhibition or
some kind of show that they thought it was going to be.
When it came to Japan, all these wrestling people and TV stations and the press,
photographers, and the whole environment, it looks pretty serious, right?
(33:43):
And they were all ready to leave. But you cannot leave. And this was like a
compromise that please get in the ring because we sold the ticket.
We were doing a TV show. And it's all just, you cannot cancel this.
And then you have to listen to what Ali people said.
Because the purpose was to get Ali actually be in the ring.
(34:09):
And actually, the match has to take place.
And apparently both guys
were you know pretty afraid of you know inoki
is crazy enough but ali's one punch could kill him too right uh probably that's
safe to say yeah yeah yeah like a boxer's muhammad ali's punch that's why inoki
(34:32):
was never close enough to get punched in the face. You know what I'm saying?
Or you cannot stand and kick.
That's why he was set on the mat, on the back almost, but you can kick on the ground.
So he came up with the idea. Later on, he was named Ali Kick.
You lay on the ground, but you aim Ali's knee, kicking, keep kicking.
(35:00):
And that was the only contact. Then Inoki was facing this way.
Because no punch from right hand Inoki was
always facing this way so Ari's left jab made
the contact once during the 15 round
but now it's see we didn't have educated eyes for this kind of fight because
(35:20):
actual mixed martial arts was there though you know what I'm saying the seeds
of it yeah and now that you can watch this all 15 rounds of it you know 15 long rounds.
Yeah, pretty much. And it was bashed.
It's just next morning, every single regular newspaper, Asahi Yomiuri,
(35:45):
Mainichi, you know, every single paper is like 15 round of nothing.
What a joke. And I was like, nobody, I mean, real, not a real journalist,
but, you know, newspaper journalist,
even sports writer from that, you know, or real big newspaper didn't understand
the thing, what actually took place.
(36:06):
In the real fight situation, first contact will pretty much determine the outcome
because real fight can be 10 seconds of it, right? Of course. Yeah.
And Inoki was careful enough not to get hit. Ali was far enough.
And there was a couple of times, round six and round eight, round 12,
(36:30):
that Inoki actually had a wrestling taco dive and got both Ali's legs on the
mat. And Inoki tried to elbow him.
And Ali got up and said, I told you not to use elbow.
It's on the film. You know, then all these people, furious, got in the ring.
(36:52):
And the referee was special, very special in that match, that judo gene, LaBelle.
Probably he was the only person who could actually call it, knowing,
you know, wrestling, martial arts, judo background, and knows boxing too.
And also Hollywood stunt person. You know what I'm saying?
(37:13):
No better person than the judo gene, LaBelle.
And he called it right in the middle and he was the one who had to watch everything
that was happening in the ring, what was not happening in the ring.
But actually, it is very, very exciting to watch that very same footage.
I was ninth grade, you know, like hoping that the Inoki, the first contact Inoki's
(37:38):
big dropkick could hit, you know, Muhammad Ali's head or something or pick him
up in the body slam and suplex or something, right? None of those things happened.
But Ali's punch didn't connect either.
So it was like nothing really happened because that's what it would look like in a real fight.
(37:59):
It took us 30-plus years to figure that out.
And it was re-evaluated and all came to like,
Like, this is what would look like in a situation of wrestler against boxer
with no high spot planned, you know?
(38:22):
It was very interesting. But
the ninth grade, you know, myself ran home on Saturday, you know, noon.
And all the kids ran home from junior high.
And they actually had the live feed, you know, in the 11 o'clock,
12 noon into 1 o'clock, all 15 round.
The same, very same night, Saturday night, 7.30 to 9, that they aired the same
(38:47):
match on Japanese primetime too. So I was able to watch noon show and night show twice.
I still didn't understand the thing, you know.
But it was the kind of TV program that the non-wrestling fan would watch.
Because Muhammad Ali against Anthony Inoki, and it's not a wrestling show.
(39:08):
It was like a special programming.
It's like something special is happening that day. Yeah.
Everybody watched. Like the Super Bowl. You know, everybody.
Bigger than that probably because that yeah because super bowl i never watched
or maybe a few years ago do you remember the conor mcgregor floyd madeweather.
(39:31):
That was a closed circuit. Yeah, but it was MMA, UFC against retired boxers.
It's the same idea, isn't it? It was.
Mixed fight. Yeah, but Muhammad Ali was the world heavyweight boxing champion then.
I mean, real, Muhammad Ali's prime time, still heavyweight champion of the world.
(39:58):
And it was crazy that the, see, boxing people always hated it,
you know, as big as Ali was,
you know, not as a boxer or a star, as a champion, even as a person,
why would go to Japan and do that, right?
I mean, like, downgrading himself, you know, to be involved in pro wrestling or something.
(40:20):
And in Japan, as serious it was,
it was like Antonio Inoki's moment that Inoki was a huge star, though,
But that was the day that became,
he was, I mean, really larger than life and bigger than movie star,
bigger than any rock star, bigger than any baseball star, bigger than John Baba, right?
(40:44):
That he was beyond wrestling that day. Yeah.
Really. Because we have to understand what Muhammad Ali meant back in 1976, you know?
And he was in his prime. And just two years after his Kinshasa's, you know, miracle,
(41:06):
you know, Muhammad Ali against George Foreman fight, which was his biggest victory
and also biggest fight in his, pretty much, history.
And we have to understand how big Muhammad Ali was.
And Ali was crazy enough. Antonio Inoki was crazy enough to actually do that.
(41:28):
In June 26th of 1976.
Then they became friends. And, you know, like fast forward another 20 years, 1995,
Pyongyang, North Korea, you know, Inoki put together, you know,
two-day peace festival, April 28th, April 29th, 1995.
(41:52):
190,000 people each day.
So like 380,000. That's crazy, right?
But that's what they were. 380,000 people in two days at the Pyongyang's Mayday
Stadium they promoted a wrestling card first night main event Shinya Hashimoto against Scott Norton,
(42:16):
second night the main event was the only time and the last time that Inoki and
Ric Flair fought against each other Inoki against Ric Flair you know And still to this day,
North Korea and Japan has no diplomacy that the Japanese passport,
you cannot go to North Korea.
(42:38):
It was when Inoki was the upper house parliament, you know, the active politician
and not retired wrestler.
He put together a peace festival, you know, and Inoki was the only person who
could go back and forth with Japan and North Korea freely. at the time.
(42:59):
And Eric Bischoff talked about this a lot, right? You know, because he sent,
he wanted to make it look like New Japan and WCW put together a package and went to North Korea.
Nah. It was Antonio Inoki's, you know, promoting.
Antonio Inoki brought the entire
New Japan roster, including New Japan American, like Lord Warrior Hawk,
(43:26):
Scott Norton, Wild Pegasus Chris Benoit, and two called Scorpio.
And WCW wrestler who was brought was Steiner Brothers and Steiner Brothers and
Ric Flair and Eric Bischoff were with them, right?
And they aired a mini pay-per-view package in America.
(43:47):
But what was important was that Antonio Inoki was able to bring Muhammad Ali
into North Korea for that event. That's right. Right.
That's, yeah, yeah. So it was like, so bringing American hero Muhammad Ali into
North Korean turf, only Anthony Yoki could do, huh?
(44:08):
I think so. He did a lot of, he pulled off a lot of magic, I think.
He did things. Through the years. He did things that only. Unthinkable. Only he could do it.
Only he. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's the kind of person he was.
There's a realness to. All the way to his passing, you know,
(44:29):
up until a couple days before his passing.
Up to his technology, he was running his YouTube programming.
That's right, the YouTube channel, the Inoki channel. Yeah, 79-year-old Antonio
Inoki running a YouTube channel up until just days before his passing.
I think he was even on national TV a couple days before. Right, right, right.
(44:54):
The 24-hour TV marathon thing for the charity. Charity, charity.
Always on, always working, always at work.
In public eyes, yes.
But this, you know, they weren't talking about this, like evaluating like this
(45:15):
way back in 1970s or even 80s.
But after this MMA thing that Muhammad Ali against Inoki fight became pretty
much the beginning, I mean, as a study goes,
beginning of what what it's called mma now
yeah yeah so inoki was
(45:35):
in a way always pioneering and some
you know some fantasy and some fiction some non-fiction right because inoki
was old fashion wrestling promoter and wrestler that all all the way till i
mean even after he's retired as an active wrestler he was telling people that
when he was active wrestler there was no distinguish,
(45:59):
I mean, we didn't distinguish, you know, there was no difference between martial
arts and wrestling. What I was doing was real.
That's how Inoki was telling the world. I don't know about the wrestling today,
but what I was doing was pretty real back then.
I mean, real, real. I mean, I don't know that term real, you know,
(46:21):
life is real. But the nuance to it, there's a deeper nuance to it,
and there's There's a spirit to it, too.
It's a way. It's a way of living your life. Yeah.
Yeah. And after Muhammad Ali fight, you know, then Inoki started running the
series of, you know, mixed martial arts fight that, you know,
(46:42):
Inoki against, you know, the Monster Man,
or the Chuck Wepner, of course, that the Kim Croquet, that the karate fighter,
the kickboxer, to judoka, to usuka.
William Ruska was actually before Muhammad Ali fight. Yeah, William Ruska.
(47:02):
And it was when Inoki had this mixed martial arts fight, it was not on Friday
night wrestling program.
Whenever Inoki had this mixed martial arts fight, it was like a primetime special
on Wednesday night or something, aside from your regular Friday night wrestling.
So people thought, tonight's Inoki, he does different thing.
(47:23):
It's wrestling, of course. but treated differently.
Inoki against this kickboxer, Inoki against judoka, Inoki against this karate
guy, that 7.30 to 9 o'clock, 90-minute network program, like special program.
Friday night wrestling is great, but when Inoki does this mixed martial arts
(47:44):
fight, it's even more special.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
So they did that for... that the Ali fight was 1976.
And Inoki's series of mixed
martial arts fight was all the way to like 79 80
that the last one was a Kyokushin karate Willie Williams yeah yeah that was
(48:10):
like very of course believable is one thing but Kyokushin karate school against
New Japan Shin Nihon Pro Wrestling thing,
they're two different schools, you know?
Take pride to what you're doing is like the best of martial arts, right? Yeah.
And also there's a picture, interesting photo, that a week before Inoki-Ari fight.
(48:39):
I told you about the one at the Korakuen Hall, there's a practice TV,
you know, Inoki's filming, working up, and Ari shows up and what he did was
just jumping ropes, not that much.
But Muhammad Ali was kind of like a professional wrestler-like that he and Inoki
(49:00):
walked towards each other and face off like they were going to fight, right?
They weren't going to do it, but like a promo purpose, of course.
Muhammad Ali walked right into Inoki and Inoki face off. There's a photo.
What's interesting is that the wrestlers, Japanese young wrestlers,
who's like holding, you know, Ali and Inoki, to not to fight, holding it.
(49:26):
It is young Killer Khan, the young Fujiwara, the young Satoru Sayama. It's all in the photo.
Inoki and TV Asahi people and just a couple, and also Inoki's then wife, Mitsuko Baisho.
Like the biggest movie actress at the time. Yeah.
Mitsuko Baisho. And Inoki's Ken Tajima was Inoki's number one interpreter.
(49:51):
And it's basically TV Asahi people, not like Fujiwara or anybody like that.
But for the workout TV show a week before the match,
you know Ali showing doing jump rope
you know he's doing you know like a little spying session
with Fujiwara or Musami Kido or Kengo Kimura but who was around around the ring
(50:14):
was that this 18 year old Satoru Sayama years before Tiger Mask right and big
huge Masashi Osawa year before he was Killer Khan to stop in the fight and Fujiwara
nobody knew who he was then then, right?
Like samurai, you know, like a kagemusha kind of guy, right?
And all these, you know, that New Japan t-shirt, top and bottom,
(50:39):
you know, younger fighter, then all became somebody, you know?
So it's really interesting to see what's in that old photo. Yeah.
Yeah. So now that it's 48 years later, it's like looking back the history pieces
who was in that environment then.
Young Lion Satoru Sayama, can you imagine that? I can because I think being...
(51:07):
Inoki side for that i'm sure it inspired
something in sayama to
become who he became and also and he
was you know rest you know wrestling fan growing up
but the satoru sayama's another hero was always bruce lee and that was a big
that was big in hollywood in general in the 70s was yeah bruce lee and kung
(51:30):
fu the explosion of kung fu yes all over the states yeah yeah in the The theaters, too.
Oh, in Japan. Japan, all over. All over the globe.
It was a global thing. And when the biggest movie, Enter the Dragon,
came, he was already dead. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah. So it was even more mysterious, you know? Yeah.
(51:52):
But that was like every year when June 26th comes, you know,
you can't help but think about this Inoki-Mohamedari fight.
Well I was 9th grade you know but it was one of the biggest things as a kid
growing up I was 9th grade so not a little kid not an adult but like a 15 year old guy,
(52:17):
trying to figure out what the wrestling is or what the Muhammad Ali Inoki fight
would be and you really watched it real time you know like a live feed and didn't
understand quite a bit but I don't think anybody did. It was all new.
It was very... Most people were disappointed because it looked like a nothing
(52:41):
happening fight, right?
I was not all that disappointed like most people, but it was like I was puzzled.
Why didn't Inoki do this? Why didn't Muhammad Ali do this?
Why didn't he do this and why didn't he do that? You know what I'm saying? They couldn't.
The rules were like straight jackets for both of them. They couldn't do anything.
(53:05):
More on the Inoki part, you know? It was something that didn't really favor the fans.
It was more of saving face for everybody in the ring.
Because they were expecting a big backdrop or big suplex or drop kicking or
alley punching and Inoki chopping something, right?
(53:27):
But it was very, very exciting, just like something that you can be proud of to be a wrestling fan.
But Inoki didn't lose, did he? Well, I believe there was a book in English by
Josh Gross, and there was a statistic of him.
I forget the name of the outlet,
(53:48):
but they did a statistic where they went to a website and registered how many
what we call significant strikes in MMA and boxing statistics these days.
I think Ali, it was about nine punches he threw and connected with four.
(54:08):
All together? All together. Yeah, and it was Inoki, the total of like 78 kicks.
Kicks. And connected with like 40-something, 47 or something like that.
So if you gave it to an MMA or boxing judge today, you'd have to say Inoki won.
(54:28):
Inoki won. Yes. Yeah, but that's MMA.
Or boxing or anything. But combat sports evolved from that point is what I'm trying to say.
Yeah. And almost as a wrestler, we are wrestling fans, right?
And wrestling people. Yeah.
Winning and losing almost isn't as important.
(54:49):
That match took place that time is very important.
Because that, they could cancel it, right?
You know, like so much promo and everything else that people dreamed of having
in Okinawa in the same ring and actually having them imagine all these things that.
(55:13):
Almost didn't happen you know that Inoki and his people really worked so hard
to not let Ali's people pack up,
and leave you know and Ali was all ready to walk in the ring you know all handling
all handling I mean like a crazy Muhammad Ali against crazy Antonio like two genius,
(55:37):
you know, that there's Inoki Entourage, Ali Entourage, right?
But those were two actually be in the ring.
They were the king, king that night.
Yeah. So that's like, as we grow older, I think we understand this whole thing much better.
I think as MMA grows, as pro wrestling and boxing grow, this was an important
(56:02):
point. You can learn a lot from studying just this one match.
I mean, there were books written on just this one event.
Oh, in Japan. In English? In English, yeah.
Especially about Ali's career. A lot of boxing literature or journalism out there.
There's a lot of coverage of this era.
Yeah, Ali did something crazy. Lots of different perspectives because media
(56:28):
people in boxing, there he is. Great shot.
This is DVD.
I'm going to watch it one more time probably. You can survive all 15 rounds.
It's pretty brutally boring after a while.
No, it's not boring at all. Every second is pretty important.
(56:48):
I watch it very carefully, because it's like boxing, basically, three minutes.
There's a counting, and it's really tight.
No boring moment for me.
There were a lot of people in the crowd, I remember, from watching the video
of it that were starting to shout.
(57:09):
Towards the end, weren't they? Boring. Yeah. Fight.
Yeah, but those were uneducated audience then. I think most people were uneducated
still back then. Yeah, right, educated.
Yeah, and then expected something like a full contact fight.
And did you know the ringside, the most expensive ticket was like 300,000 yen
(57:30):
at the time? Right, yeah.
The sponsors got it, yeah.
Yeah, but the 3,000 yen. I mean, now the WrestleMania is like ringside tickets
inflated way too expensive.
But 1976, 300,000 yen, like you have $3,000 for ringside ticket.
That's outrageous then. It was a high status occasion.
(57:53):
Everything about it was high status. So I think that also gave it that feeling
of being more than just a regular show or just a wrestling match or a boxing match.
Yeah, it wasn't a wrestling show. No, it was a global event.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Something crazy. Something like that.
(58:15):
And I'm glad, you know, I watched it as a kid, you know.
Now that you have to go back and watch the old video or just kind of talk about
it or study, you know, what was happening then, you know.
But it was like the whole buzz, whole just buzz was in Japan at the time. Yeah.
And I remember that, you know, really well.
(58:38):
It's been 48 years I can still
talk about it there's so much we could extrapolate
from it I think maybe next year we should talk let's talk
about it again next year June 26th I'll probably watch this DVD probably two
more times until then I'll have to revisit it myself then at your word because
(59:02):
it's not boring really it's not anymore, you know.
And for some people who don't like this, you know, MMA thing or the mixed fight
or you know, just a lot of older wrestling fans almost had this preconceiving
notion that it would be boring.
Oh gosh, I can't stand it. Because I think that you have to study it. People prejudice.
(59:27):
That's all correct and for sure. But I also think it's,
You can't watch it for entertainment value. You have to study it for a lot.
You get a lot more out of it if you watch it really seriously.
I mean, some people don't want to do that. That's a free time.
They can do whatever they want.
(59:48):
But that's just, you need to. Well, today's wrestling audience or the younger
generation people, they cannot sit through two hours. We're living in a different world.
That's asking a lot. Even the new movies, you go into YouTube,
they give you a 10-minute clip of the new movies that's out there now.
(01:00:12):
They cannot sit through a two-hour movie, so they watch this 10-minute clip.
Somebody came up with this 10-minute clip of the movie. Like a preview.
It felt like you've watched the whole thing. Yeah. And then you felt like you watched.
I mean, you think you know everything about it, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, but for a longer match, was it WrestleMania XII then?
(01:00:37):
The Bret Hart against Shawn Michaels, one-hour match? Iron Man match.
And after 60 minutes, they go into sudden death for another six minutes or something.
And I don't think I felt that was long.
It was like I enjoyed the entire match. A lot of people complain about that
one, but it's for different crowds, different tastes different crowds I love
(01:01:01):
them that's one of my favorites I recently re-watched I recently watched 1957.
Luthez against Ricky Dawson 61 minute fight that's great yeah,
Yeah, it's a really, really good match. 1957, Korakuen Stadium,
60-minute, you know, 60-minute, no fall. You know what I'm saying? Not one fall.
(01:01:24):
But it was, like, a really good build-up of the match, you know.
I guess you have to be, like, really mature, you know, to watch a 60-minute
match. I mean, you got to think about it now.
There are so many new fans getting into it. And I'm just thinking about it a
lot because it's been 20 years from being 20.
(01:01:46):
I'm going to be 40 soon, so I'm thinking about the past 20 years a lot and how
so much has just popped up within 20 years to keep up with everything.
It's just I don't know where you start. So I understand it's hard to ask people.
Your brain is a lot more mature than 20 years ago. Of course, yeah, of course.
(01:02:11):
Okay, go back and watch Bret Hart against Shawn Michaels.
That's one of my all-time favorites. That's a favorite match of mine.
But I'm trying to speak, as we're on the show, I have to speak for like the
general, there's a general population out there.
Quite a few people don't like that match. I am aware of that.
(01:02:32):
And for the same reason. You can't make them like you.
Because we all cultivated different tastes, growing up where we are and but
the good wrestling match is good wrestling match that hasn't been changed much
you know there's Antonio Inoki Dory Funk Jr.
Title match 60 minute you know that's also 60 minute match really good you know Inoki Billy Robinson,
(01:02:58):
that's 60 minute too yeah that's pretty
I mean really good that is something that ages every
year it looks better and more realistic
yeah it's not boring no way yeah no i i mean yeah it's a lot of people can't
get over they they're they're not there they're not ready like a less high spot
it's high it's too well because it's it's not as immediately gratifying.
(01:03:27):
I mean with their there's a style not as immediate gratifying i mean okay with
pro wrestling that we're talking about that we love,
like I just covered a blood sport on the observer website that is most in line
with the style of wrestling.
I think we're talking about today is that trying to fight in a way that would
(01:03:51):
be realistic in reality is.
Or our world, would this actually work? And I think that goes or connects to Inoki's mindset.
Yeah, I guess some of the wrestling fans are not looking for reality.
No, they're looking for a fantasy version of the more recent modern pro wrestling
(01:04:15):
that's been out there for 40 years.
Or the match to look just like your video game. I mean, there's a lot of,
there's like a formula for a lot of new style matches that kind of,
it gets more and more condensed every couple of years.
The length of it. One more 60 minute match that's on video is the 1995 Manami
(01:04:40):
Toyota against Kyoko Inoue 60 minute match.
I believe, I think 95 was also when Kobashi and Kawada had a 60 minute match.
Oh 94 95 it's kind of famous that
then kawada against kobashi 60
minutes sound like non-stop matching because their stamina
(01:05:00):
is good you know i can't remember the venue
but i remember because it was one of the first
cassette tapes that i owned a long
time ago when i said like vhs vhs but
yeah you know usually talking about tape trading
for a moment you'd sometimes get a
tape that would have two hours length or maybe three hours
(01:05:22):
length or one hour this match
was so long that it would often fill up most of
a cassette tape that was the japanese
videos the matches were longer so it would be one
tape with one match so it's easy for me to remember because
i remember it like an object but again that's
neither here nor there that's another one of these 60 minute
(01:05:44):
great matches that people should
take the time to watch and just enjoy it's hard we're distracted i mean beyond
what generation just simply just simply study everything that's going on i think
that's sometimes it's hard to ask i mean people find it difficult it's not enough.
(01:06:08):
I don't know. Okay. So today we talked about Muhammad Ali, Antonio Inoki, 1976, June 26th match.
You know, and, you know, Muhammad Ali passed away, what, 2016?
Yeah. And Antonio Inoki passed two years ago, 2022.
(01:06:28):
And both, yeah, kings are gone.
But we will be talking about Inoki-Muhammad Ali fight you know periodically you know,
let's do that every year I think so and there's two more years until the 50
so I think there's a lot more that we can talk about too there's a lot that
also made Inoki famous in America before I forget if you remember the Bad News
(01:06:54):
Bear movie yeah yeah Bad News Bear go to Japan he had a cameo and Inoki,
yeah not the cameo but a couple important scenes that you know Inoki as a martial arts champion.
Yeah so so hollywood you know
wanted inoki too then yeah and of course that's where
(01:07:14):
you know he got his theme song that
we often hear i mean this is connected
to ali this is from ali right ali oh ali bombay inoki bombay so oh ali gave
him that so what so yeah so the the chant Can't was from the Rumble in the Jungle,
(01:07:37):
the match he had with Foreman and Zaire.
Yeah, Ali Bomayeh. That was the local language for saying, Ali, kill him. Ali, kill him.
Yeah. Fight, fight. But not as crazy sounding as that. And then he kind of took
it for his own after the Ali match.
And it's that group. It's a great funk group, Mandrill.
(01:07:58):
They did the recorded version of Ali Bomayeh.
Which is also used for Inoki. Ari. But Mandrill, yes. Because Ari gave him that music.
And from that point on, it became Inoki Bombaye. And he played the song until his passing.
Yeah. So. Very important. You could see how these little things get passed on
(01:08:21):
and how they survive generations.
Also, Inoki, Muhammad Ali, as great as he was, Inoki, great as he was, he became equal.
Yeah. So that was, yeah, very historical.
I mean, a lot of things came out of that. I mean, we could probably talk just
about MMA, how it affected MMA only.
(01:08:44):
You know what I mean? And the type of person who would do unthinkable,
thinkable, you know? Yeah. Unpredictable. Yeah.
Yeah, and then make impossible possible, the kind of person they were.
All right. Okay. So. And we should do the questionnaire show,
you know, question shows. We're going to get to those soon.
(01:09:06):
Yeah. And also, we'll be releasing a lot of archives from now on.
Yes. Yeah, keep checking back.
Antonio Inoki episodes, Misawa episodes, the Keiji Muto episode.
What else? Baba. I can't remember. We did a lot. I know that.
And I just found a couple of, actually more than a couple of older episodes. In an old computer.
(01:09:29):
Yeah, from another drive. So the full Inoki series, I think that's five parts.
Five episodes. Giant Baba.
Giant Baba 3 episodes. Riki Dozan is up there already that you can find out
on YouTube or our archive on Podbean.
All kinds. I have to sift through them. Keiji Muto, Masa Chono.
(01:09:50):
Chono, Three Musketeers.
Johnny Powers, Dick Murdock. adrian adonis funks hansen two episodes and hansen two episodes on jumbo,
bruce brody no not yet you didn't want to do it you didn't want to do it you
wanted to wait i did you wanted to wait here's a brody episode yeah okay because
(01:10:12):
because i have to organize my thought we're still waiting that'll be a special
one but we'll do we could do that anytime yeah Yeah,
because July 17th,
or in Japanese calendar,
July 18th is Bruce and Brody Memorial.
So, yeah, let's talk about Brody. We could talk about that.
(01:10:35):
And our interviews with Medusa and Debbie Malenko, X-Pac, Sean Waltman.
Everything's available. There's a lot of good stuff, and there's a lot more
good stuff coming. So just keep an eye out.
If you're watching on YouTube, just keep an eye out. please subscribe and
there's a bell notification that will notify you when our
new stuff is up and if you hit that it really
helps the show kind of move up to other people's
(01:10:58):
eyes and then we get more views and then ultimately can do more cool stuff right
yeah okay if people want to reach you outside of this where can they reach you
mr saito uh on x twitter Twitter at Fumihikodayo,
F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O-D-A-Y-O, Fumihikodayo.
(01:11:53):
Music.
Music.
(00:33):
Music.
(00:55):
Basically, junior high, high school. See, it was actually Friday night primetime
program in New York, okay?
So at the time, I didn't understand why it had to be on Saturday morning, 11 o'clock.
Crazy, right? And back in 1976 in Japan, we had school on Saturdays.
(01:21):
You know, like half day until noon-ish. you
know like not a whole program but there was school
like morning school on saturday now it's
saturday and sunday you know it's a two days off and everything but the
way back in back in you know 1976 there was school on saturday morning and just
as soon as this morning you know period is over every kid in school ran home
(01:45):
you know and yeah to be actually it's like a 10 50 in the morning,
like 11 o'clock in the morning,
that meant 9.50 at night in New York City.
So it was for the American television, you know.
Not exactly television. It was actually like, there was no such thing as pay-per-view
(02:05):
yet. It was closed circuit.
Closed circuit. You know?
The technology of closed circuit was pretty new then, right?
I can't think of many things before that were on closed circuit.
Yeah, in wrestling, actually, like a historical closed circuit program was Freddie
(02:27):
Blassie against John Tallis from Los Angeles, you know.
But other than that, yeah, it's got Olympic, you know.
And let alone, pay-per-view wasn't the technology yet in the closed circuit.
And what they were saying is...
That the satellite beamed, right? You know, like before the satellite dish or
(02:51):
anything like that, you know, it was beamed back and forth from the States in Japan.
The only time they used such technology was for the Olympic or presidential
election or something like that, right? Yeah.
And they were saying, according to one source, it was beamed or that the closed
circuit was like aired, like in movie theaters, 250 cities in America.
(03:16):
Then some, you know, formed, they said, 170 cities.
So it has to be between either 170 cities in America or 250 cities.
It depends on what you're in. But it was all over America.
And it was basically closed circuit programming for America because of Muhammad Ali, huh, probably?
(03:36):
Sure. I mean, of course. More so than Antonio Inoki, yeah. Nobody knew who Antonio Inoki was, really.
Up until then. Outside of pro wrestling.
Oh, even for pro wrestling crowd in America, Antonio Inoki was still relatively
unknown up until that day.
And even if they didn't know the name Antonio Inoki, years before that,
(03:58):
I mean, years after that, oh, the Japanese wrestler who fought Muhammad Ali,
oh, that guy, right? Yeah.
And actually, it was for American programming. and mostly movie theater.
But like in Houston, Texas, you know, at the Houston Coliseum,
the main event at the Houston Coliseum was Terry Funk, then NWA champion, against Rocky Johnson.
(04:23):
That's, you know, Dwayne Johnson's dad.
NWA title match main event. Then after the main event, the movie feed come in
and show Muhammad Ali and Inoki.
In Chicago, there was Vern Gagne against Nick Parkwinkle and something like
a bruiser and crusher against Big Bad Bobby Duncombe and so and so.
In Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium, there's another card to feature.
(04:47):
And also at the Shea Stadium in New York City.
The feature was actually Bruno Sammartino, return of Bruno Sammartino against Stan Delarion Hansen.
And the mixed fight before there was a term such as MMA, it wasn't invented
until late 90s into 2000. So.
(05:10):
Shea Stadium, the main attraction was return of Bruno San Martino against Stan
Delariat Hanson, you know, months before
that at the Madison Square Garden storyline, but it was an accident.
But still, Bruno San Martino broke his neck, you know, and it was basically
storyline done by younger Stan Hanson's Delariat.
(05:34):
But it was main attraction at the Shea Stadium was two matches,
which is Bruno San Martino against Stan Hansen and mixed fight before there was such a term as MMA,
the heavyweight boxing, not the champion, but the heavyweight famous boxer,
Chuck Wepner, I guess, under the giant. Yeah.
(05:56):
So those are two things. And at the Shea Stadium, right in the middle of second
base or something, you know, you put a big screen screen to show the live beam
from Japan, Tokyo, Japan,
Muhammad Ali against Antonio Inoki.
Then actually like, Vern Gagne is, you know, tried to switch that into Bruno
(06:20):
against Muhammad Ali. That never happened, but you know what I'm saying?
Yeah. And actually the promoter who was in charge of the American promotion
and all the closed circuit thing, it was Ben Jr., today's Vincent Kennedy, McMahon.
Yeah. Interesting, huh? And all over the country.
(06:42):
But little did we know in Japan that why would they do that on Saturday morning?
You know what I'm saying? It was the beginning. Friday night, primetime program.
Yeah, Friday night, primetime programming from East Coast.
But because it was, you know, closed circuit, new technology,
(07:03):
closed circuit business, the whole thing was real huge.
Not boxing business, but wrestling business, which Muhammad Ali was involved. It's so huge, right?
See, Muhammad Ali at the time, 34, Antonio Inoki being 33.
And it was two years after Muhammad Ali's super famous Kinshasa that Muhammad
(07:26):
Ali got the title back from, you know, George Foreman.
It was super, super famous.
And they did the closed circuit for that too because that's from Congo, the African country.
They did that three o'clock in the morning over there for prime time in America.
(07:48):
And books and books been written about this Ali, you know, former fight.
What I'm trying to get to is that 1976 version of Muhammad Ali was obvious in his prime.
Yeah, very much so. And 34 years old, Inoki 33.
And what they were saying was professional boxing's world heavyweight champion
(08:09):
against pro wrestling's world heavyweight champion collides.
At the time, Anthony Inoki was NWF World Heavyweight Champion of New Japan.
Yeah. I mean, years, years before IWGP.
Yeah. And he, that was kind of the calling card for New Japan back then.
(08:31):
That was the, that was what it was all about, right?
The strong style challenges. Is my strong style better than your boxing or than
your other martial arts?
Yeah, but that's something that could never actually take place.
You know what I'm saying? You can talk about it.
A wrestler would actually have a fight against Muhammad Ali like a comic book fight, right?
(08:57):
It actually started a year prior to that, 1975, that Muhammad Ali had a title
defense at the Kuala Lumpur or somewhere in Asia, okay?
And wherever Muhammad Ali went, you know, the press, right?
Photographers and reporters, you know. And one little comment,
(09:18):
one little comment Muhammad Ali made, you know, on his way to Asia,
that is there any Asian Oriental fighter who could fight me?
I mean, it is one of the Muhammad Ali's jogging, right?
I mean, she talked, you know, always.
But it's a useless tribute. But Muhammad Ali's all those like almost like wrestling
(09:40):
promo thing, it was inspired by professional wrestling.
But there's two stories to it. I don't want to get off track on today's subject,
Antonio Inoki against Muhammad Ali, but it is very well known that Muhammad
Ali does promo. He talked, right?
None of the professional boxers was giving promo promo, but Muhammad Ali was natural.
(10:06):
But he admitted and he was telling people that he was inspired by professional wrestling.
And all these years up until then, He thought it was inspired by a black and
white TV wrestling that he watched as a kid.
And Ali himself thought it was gorgeous Jewish.
Okay. But Ali growing up in Louisville, Kentucky, right?
(10:32):
Unless, I mean, only rich people had TV sets, right? He wasn't widespread yet. Not until later on.
Yeah, because he was born in 1943, you know.
Then war was 1942 when he
was three years old world war ii ended
and tv boom starts like
(10:53):
1948 49 and the very first television star gorgeous george right but he was
gorgeous george was basically based in california and there was you know not
like your nbc abc cbs affiliates and all
these, you know, local stations around the country,
(11:14):
all the other local stations and network affiliates, that doesn't start in the
50s and mid-50s, you know.
So nobody was sure that what Muhammad Ali actually thought he watched.
He thought it was Gorgeous George, but nobody could confirm that because Gorgeous
George's TV didn't quite get to Louisville, Kentucky.
(11:38):
Right. then yeah then he kind of you know start talking but he really watched,
This blonde hair, black and white TV, blonde hair professional wrestler was giving promo, right?
And he remembered that. But he wasn't necessarily a big wrestling fan.
And he assumed he was Gorgeous George.
(12:00):
But he could have been Freddie Blass.
Same type, blonde hair, same era, and same kind of early, early wrestling promo, you know?
And including Dave Meltzer and other historians and researchers that where did
(12:20):
Ali actually watch wrestling television?
And pretty much concluded that Ali must have watched this when he was traveling with amateur boxing.
See, he represented the 1960 London Olympic and got the gold medal, right?
(12:42):
Well, he grew up in poor family and he probably wasn't traveling until then, right?
And he watched television on some Las Vegas hotel room and insisted that that's
where he got the idea of like talking to camera and whatever.
I mean, with the come up, I mean, like an office head that he just gave promo
(13:05):
because it's natural, right?
But he was inspired by this blonde hair professional wrestler.
In Las Vegas that seemed like that year and that around the time the main event
was which is interesting the main event of that television that night seems to be,
Freddie Blassie against Gorgeous George so no conclusion he might have watched.
(13:31):
Gorgeous George, he might have watched Freddie Blassie the reason I'm talking
about this was that 1976 1976, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Noki fight.
WWF, WWWF at the time, Vince McMahon, dad and son.
Vince McMahon Sr. put Freddie Blassie with Muhammad Ali on the plane.
(13:54):
And as he landed on Haneda Airport, Freddie Blassie started marching and started
giving, you know, promo, right?
Just as much as Muhammad Ali would. and those two spent time together all week
in the Kiyo Plaza Hotel in Shinjuku.
And Freddie Blassie insisted that what you watched as a kid must be me.
(14:18):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, all those years that Muhammad Ali thought he watched Gorgeous George wrestling,
early, early Gorgeous George television and he was so sure that it was Gorgeous George television.
Going back to this timeline and where he was and where Freddie Blassie was,
Freddie Blassie was so sure that
(14:40):
what you have watched was Freddie Blassie instead of, but no conclusion.
And I'll leave it to the, I don't know, more research. Sure.
But Freddie Blassie, Gorgeous George gone, Freddie Blassie gone,
now Muhammad Ali gone, you know, Anthony Yannick is gone. and it will be forever to debate, huh?
(15:04):
Yeah, but also I think it makes sense he would say that, right?
Because Fred Blassie, Gorgeous George, Nature Boys later on. Very similar.
It was kind of, that's the idea. It's easy to misremember. Bleach, yeah.
If you're not a serious wrestling fan, just TV view.
(15:26):
Wrestling was always popular programming. early on on television.
And when the TV became color, it was pretty popular.
And the cable TV came along, wrestling again, right?
And pay-per-view programming in 90s, wrestling was killer content.
Now that the wrestling is shifting into internet streaming.
(15:50):
You see, wrestling has always been on top of this technology.
Yeah. Agree? Because it wants to distribute to the most amount of people.
So it has to be kind of in front. Yeah, but why not rock concert?
Why not rock concert? Why not boxing? Why not football?
You know, it seems to me it's always wrestling.
(16:13):
Well, production will always have another level of control versus sports.
Television demo, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Yeah, demography and TV viewer right between white color and blue color,
you know, that cannot cater to all, you know, blue color audience,
(16:38):
but it's not for all white color audience.
TVs for a wide variety of audiences.
For some reason, wrestling always get on TV station, always cable station,
and then in the pay-per-view market.
Now all the wrestling is moving towards live streaming on your laptop or even
(17:01):
a smartphone, and wrestling is such.
But get back to this, you know, Anthony Inoki against Muhammad Ali fight,
because it's actually, it's more important now than it actually was then.
I think so. It was important and a real big thing then.
But it was actually for not
(17:24):
more educated audience for mixed martial arts or what would happen if professional
boxer and professional wrestler went against each other, what would be the rules?
And actually you know like 40 years after the actual fight you know I brought
(17:48):
this today oh nice it's it's a DVD.
146 minutes all 15 rounds no editing,
first round to 15 rounds of Inoki-Mohamed Ali fight and TV special a few days
before that you know the TV he had a you know basically press conference and
(18:12):
signing contracts thing,
but it was interesting enough to have this network primetime special just for
that press conference, you know.
And that's in it. And all 15 rounds,
2014, it finally came out with this booklet, you know, all these booklet and
(18:36):
reproduction of them. Poster?
1976 poster because it was not just for wrestling magazine and sports you know
sports pages sports paper that if you know for the younger audience over there out there.
If you live in Japan every train station subway station there's a newsstand
(19:00):
and you pick up tabloids evening paper yeah Two days as ever. Yeah.
Ah, yeah, yeah. Oh, kiosks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Magazines are everywhere.
Newspapers are everywhere.
More reading-oriented people, I guess, basically. And on the train and subways, you know.
(19:23):
Not anymore, you know, even middle-aged, you know, that the business managers,
what they have is smart phone on the train and subway now.
But all through, I don't know, post-war, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s,
into 90s, you know, until maybe five, six years ago, people are reading newspaper
on trains and subways, right?
(19:44):
Every paper every tabloid every
sports pages and evening news and magazine
or even comic book you know like a shonen magazine time another
and that comic book covered all the stories you know leading into inoki ali
fight you know it was going to be the greatest thing ever you know your hero
(20:05):
antonio inoki the wrestler would be fighting you know muhammad ali the greatest
boxer or greatest athlete ever lived.
And there was a, you know, the cartoon illustration of Inoki giving suplex or
something to Muhammad Ali and they expected that all the full contact match would happen.
(20:26):
And it was iffy, iffy situation, right?
Because Inoki all along was going to have mixed fight, you know?
And it was more difficult out and
like close to impossible to
actually convince Muhammad Ali people
to actually come into Japan and have a match against professional wrestler and
(20:53):
obviously professional boxing you know like commissions and you know WBA the
WBC that there was no IBF or world boxing organization or anything like that,
just two groups, WBC and WBA.
Anyhow, they don't sanction anything but boxing and they don't want boxers to
(21:14):
be participating in anything but boxing.
You know what I'm saying? Very, very, boxing people, very, very strict.
And almost that it came out from Inoki's, you know, like the top of the head idea.
Ali made comment publicly at the press conference, is there any Asian or Oriental
(21:37):
fighter who can fight me, right?
And it was nothing to it. It's just a conversation piece at one press conference, right?
Then it made news in Japan.
And Inoki read it and said, we could do this.
You know what I'm saying? Then the first, but nobody knew how to get a hold
(22:00):
of Ali's, like core Ali people.
I mean, like layers and layers of network of people until you actually get to Muhammad Ali Khan.
And the first group of people in Japan, I mean, Inoki's people and TV Asahi
tried to get to was like Nations Islam or something that Ali's church.
(22:20):
The Nation of Islam, it was an organization that he was a part of back then, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Based out of the United States. Cassius Clay, yeah.
Cassius Clay changed name, and he was baptized into Islam, Muslim.
And that was a church Japanese people first got to, probably like hoping that
(22:45):
you actually get to Ali's manager or close associates and all these things.
And actually, you know, because one of the managers went to, you know, Ali's.
Press conference and brought the letter from enoki on
the fight you know this thought it was stunt right stunt
you know nothing more than stunt and at least people told you know enoki's people
(23:09):
that all right six million dollar six million dollar you know why it was six
million dollar six million dollar man it was there you go like a joke yeah you
know six million dollar was
outrageous amount of money back in 1970, right?
Yeah. So anything over $6 million. Okay, $6 million and $1.
(23:32):
And Inoki decided to come up with it.
You know what I'm saying? He said it. To give it a little more context,
there was also a show on CBS back then.
It was kind of a superhero show, $6 million man, Steve Austin.
Not the one we're more familiar with.
Wrestler. before him and it was a big it was a hit show,
(23:53):
yeah of course I think $6 million man,
the bionic woman all those shows were so
huge but the $6 million that was a connotation $6 million if you pay so that
was like an image of outrageous amount of money so it was just an off color
comment he just made it on the fly because it wasn't going to happen it wasn't
(24:16):
a serious comment but Inoki took it seriously.
And Inoki and TV Asahi made an offer. Right. All right. We'll be paying $6 million and $1.
Then they thought it was, and still then, Muhammad Ali and his people thought
we're going to Japan for the, like a fun exhibition show.
(24:40):
Boxer against, boxer against professional wrestler. You know,
like a big TV show, you know, nothing serious.
Yeah. So like a.
I wouldn't say easy money, but kind of easy money kind of feeling, right?
Yeah. But Ali would not travel alone, you know, much like boxers and MMA fighter.
They have a whole entourage of people to travel with.
(25:02):
And Inoki and TBSI would be covering all the expenses, you know.
So bring your people over.
And actually, it was the Vince McMahon Jr.
Then, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, you know, At the time, he was in his early 30s.
(25:22):
Doing live broadcasting.
Yeah, that Vince. Introducing the television show. He had bell-bottoms, feathered hair.
And yellow sports jacket.
But it was not an NWA-type wrestling promoter.
It had to come from New York City. You know, and actually it was a time Antonio
(25:50):
Inoki's New Japan Pro Wrestling and Vince McMahon Sr.'s WWWF had a partnership.
Yeah, match made in heaven, you know, American side of the promoter and the production, all WWWF.
And we'll be doing the live satellite dish, you know, satellite feed from Tokyo.
(26:10):
And it was like a huge business and it was going to take place finally.
And months before that Inoki wearing this you know that the kimono jacket and
had a big press conference at the Plaza Hotel in New York and Ali shows up and you know,
I think even at that point, Muhammad Ali thought it was a show, right?
(26:33):
Like a big spectacle, you know, like a movie filming, like Muhammad Ali and
this strong, I mean, superstar Japanese wrestler, wrestler against boxer in
one ring and doing the exhibition.
Yeah. It's a great example of what people, I guess what people didn't or did
(26:53):
realize what was professional wrestling.
What was their idea of it they didn't really have any
idea of i think is the point in this situation oh they
they thought wrestling was always fake right that's
what i'm saying but they didn't exactly know they somebody was crazy enough
to be in the ring no anything really i mean just saying it's fake doesn't really
(27:14):
say anything it just it just shows that there's a process there are so many
different processes actually and it
exposes the kind of general ignorance about pro wrestling to what people were
thinking at that time, right?
And also, like, underestimating the size of wrestling fans, I mean,
(27:35):
like, all over the world. Sure, that they're not just in the United States or something.
Yeah, not just that, but the boxing people always feel that boxing is way above
wrestling. It's superior because it's a sport.
They say. Well, that's what they argue. But you got to realize in the States
(27:58):
versus Japan, the progress.
Japan has general consensus too.
Wrestling is a show. Right. Because
certain things happened over the years that didn't happen in Japan.
That it was allowed to grow in Japan without certain things.
There's a couple things that happened that just changed the trajectory,
(28:19):
excuse me, of... And also, Japanese
wrestling had pretty unique original evolution to it, right? Yeah.
And... Different kind of make-believe.
And it tries to... I would say it sticks to the original formula,
even still to this day, more so than most other kinds of wrestling,
(28:42):
aside from Lucha Libre, which I think is... It's a different beast, so...
They're different beasts. They're different animals. You can't even really talk
about it. I want to bring it up, but it's also like there's so much more to
it that it's like, I'm not an expert on that.
But even within the wrestling, but there was people like Bruno San Martino,
(29:05):
the people in New York believed in. Hero.
New York hero. Yeah, and also- Pennsylvania hero.
There is not another professional sport that comes back.
Every four weeks and pack up Madison Square Garden every month, 12 months in a row,
always over 20,000 people to watch either Bruno San Martino or Pedro Morales
(29:30):
all the way to Bob Backlund to Hulk Hogan. You know what I'm saying?
Wrestling is so underestimated, but it's always been popular, popular.
But this was like a different twist. a champion, crazy enough,
this Japanese martial arts style professional wrestler challenging Muhammad Ali in his prime.
(29:53):
And Inoki, crazy enough to actually step in the ring, right, with Muhammad Ali.
But Ali's people still were thinking that we're going to Japan to have this exhibition.
And even after Ali's people came to Japan and they asked the interpreter and
the TVSI producer, when are we going to have rehearsal?
(30:15):
They said, no, there is not going to be rehearsal.
You're working, right? No, there is not going to be any rehearsal. We're just going there.
Then there was a Korakuen Hall that opened spying, that the practice,
another TV thing that Inoki showing, you know, like working out with then young Fujiwara,
(30:40):
the Osamu Kido, the young Kengo Kimura, they're actually doing the wrestling
in the ring, Ali watching, you know, and Inoki was doing the chops and kicks and all these things.
It's like, I'm not going to let this guy do this.
I mean, Ali's people and Ali himself.
I'm not going to, no karate kick, no karate kicks or chops, you know,
(31:01):
that I'm not going to let him do that.
And then there was actually like serious rule meeting because boxing rules,
the wrestling rules, what can be done or what's allowed
and what's not allowed you know but the boxing
people felt that if wrestling i
(31:22):
mean even if it's a professional wrestling if you
could get a hold boxers and grab the
waist and take them down on the mat you know
or something you know i'm saying i'm not gonna let that happen not gonna let
that happen and no most i mean well boxers are striking right But they would
(31:42):
not let Antonio Inoki use his karate chop or headbutting or,
I mean, no crazy submission.
No strike to the throat. Nothing on the mat.
Yeah. Or the striking to the groin or something. Or no standing kick. Yeah.
No, you have to have your knees on them. I mean, they came up with all kinds of stuff.
(32:07):
You're not going to have a boxer on the mat. Then wrestlers can't wrestle.
You know what I'm saying?
And if it goes into the mat on the ground, you know, then the wrestling,
only 20 seconds allowed.
Both, you know, competitor has to get up.
It's all, every little detail was written. But he was not open to public. Isn't that weird?
(32:32):
That Mr. Keiichi Funabashi, who called the match, you know, in Japan, the play-by-play,
he remembers vividly that he was told what the basic rules are,
but he was never given what Inoki can do and cannot do and what Ari can do and cannot do.
They have to call the match sort of like a play-by-year kind of thing.
(32:55):
It's so weird. but Inoki's whole purpose was to whatever that Ali's people were
saying about the rules or let him do this and that or let him do this,
get Muhammad Ali in that ring you know because couple three times during that
(33:16):
the whole course of the week Ali's people was going to pack up and leave,
when doing it right thinking but they sensed it It was not the exhibition or
some kind of show that they thought it was going to be.
When it came to Japan, all these wrestling people and TV stations and the press,
photographers, and the whole environment, it looks pretty serious, right?
(33:43):
And they were all ready to leave. But you cannot leave. And this was like a
compromise that please get in the ring because we sold the ticket.
We were doing a TV show. And it's all just, you cannot cancel this.
And then you have to listen to what Ali people said.
Because the purpose was to get Ali actually be in the ring.
(34:09):
And actually, the match has to take place.
And apparently both guys
were you know pretty afraid of you know inoki
is crazy enough but ali's one punch could kill him too right uh probably that's
safe to say yeah yeah yeah like a boxer's muhammad ali's punch that's why inoki
(34:32):
was never close enough to get punched in the face. You know what I'm saying?
Or you cannot stand and kick.
That's why he was set on the mat, on the back almost, but you can kick on the ground.
So he came up with the idea. Later on, he was named Ali Kick.
You lay on the ground, but you aim Ali's knee, kicking, keep kicking.
(35:00):
And that was the only contact. Then Inoki was facing this way.
Because no punch from right hand Inoki was
always facing this way so Ari's left jab made
the contact once during the 15 round
but now it's see we didn't have educated eyes for this kind of fight because
(35:20):
actual mixed martial arts was there though you know what I'm saying the seeds
of it yeah and now that you can watch this all 15 rounds of it you know 15 long rounds.
Yeah, pretty much. And it was bashed.
It's just next morning, every single regular newspaper, Asahi Yomiuri,
(35:45):
Mainichi, you know, every single paper is like 15 round of nothing.
What a joke. And I was like, nobody, I mean, real, not a real journalist,
but, you know, newspaper journalist,
even sports writer from that, you know, or real big newspaper didn't understand
the thing, what actually took place.
(36:06):
In the real fight situation, first contact will pretty much determine the outcome
because real fight can be 10 seconds of it, right? Of course. Yeah.
And Inoki was careful enough not to get hit. Ali was far enough.
And there was a couple of times, round six and round eight, round 12,
(36:30):
that Inoki actually had a wrestling taco dive and got both Ali's legs on the
mat. And Inoki tried to elbow him.
And Ali got up and said, I told you not to use elbow.
It's on the film. You know, then all these people, furious, got in the ring.
(36:52):
And the referee was special, very special in that match, that judo gene, LaBelle.
Probably he was the only person who could actually call it, knowing,
you know, wrestling, martial arts, judo background, and knows boxing too.
And also Hollywood stunt person. You know what I'm saying?
(37:13):
No better person than the judo gene, LaBelle.
And he called it right in the middle and he was the one who had to watch everything
that was happening in the ring, what was not happening in the ring.
But actually, it is very, very exciting to watch that very same footage.
I was ninth grade, you know, like hoping that the Inoki, the first contact Inoki's
(37:38):
big dropkick could hit, you know, Muhammad Ali's head or something or pick him
up in the body slam and suplex or something, right? None of those things happened.
But Ali's punch didn't connect either.
So it was like nothing really happened because that's what it would look like in a real fight.
(37:59):
It took us 30-plus years to figure that out.
And it was re-evaluated and all came to like,
Like, this is what would look like in a situation of wrestler against boxer
with no high spot planned, you know?
(38:22):
It was very interesting. But
the ninth grade, you know, myself ran home on Saturday, you know, noon.
And all the kids ran home from junior high.
And they actually had the live feed, you know, in the 11 o'clock,
12 noon into 1 o'clock, all 15 round.
The same, very same night, Saturday night, 7.30 to 9, that they aired the same
(38:47):
match on Japanese primetime too. So I was able to watch noon show and night show twice.
I still didn't understand the thing, you know.
But it was the kind of TV program that the non-wrestling fan would watch.
Because Muhammad Ali against Anthony Inoki, and it's not a wrestling show.
(39:08):
It was like a special programming.
It's like something special is happening that day. Yeah.
Everybody watched. Like the Super Bowl. You know, everybody.
Bigger than that probably because that yeah because super bowl i never watched
or maybe a few years ago do you remember the conor mcgregor floyd madeweather.
(39:31):
That was a closed circuit. Yeah, but it was MMA, UFC against retired boxers.
It's the same idea, isn't it? It was.
Mixed fight. Yeah, but Muhammad Ali was the world heavyweight boxing champion then.
I mean, real, Muhammad Ali's prime time, still heavyweight champion of the world.
(39:58):
And it was crazy that the, see, boxing people always hated it,
you know, as big as Ali was,
you know, not as a boxer or a star, as a champion, even as a person,
why would go to Japan and do that, right?
I mean, like, downgrading himself, you know, to be involved in pro wrestling or something.
(40:20):
And in Japan, as serious it was,
it was like Antonio Inoki's moment that Inoki was a huge star, though,
But that was the day that became,
he was, I mean, really larger than life and bigger than movie star,
bigger than any rock star, bigger than any baseball star, bigger than John Baba, right?
(40:44):
That he was beyond wrestling that day. Yeah.
Really. Because we have to understand what Muhammad Ali meant back in 1976, you know?
And he was in his prime. And just two years after his Kinshasa's, you know, miracle,
(41:06):
you know, Muhammad Ali against George Foreman fight, which was his biggest victory
and also biggest fight in his, pretty much, history.
And we have to understand how big Muhammad Ali was.
And Ali was crazy enough. Antonio Inoki was crazy enough to actually do that.
(41:28):
In June 26th of 1976.
Then they became friends. And, you know, like fast forward another 20 years, 1995,
Pyongyang, North Korea, you know, Inoki put together, you know,
two-day peace festival, April 28th, April 29th, 1995.
(41:52):
190,000 people each day.
So like 380,000. That's crazy, right?
But that's what they were. 380,000 people in two days at the Pyongyang's Mayday
Stadium they promoted a wrestling card first night main event Shinya Hashimoto against Scott Norton,
(42:16):
second night the main event was the only time and the last time that Inoki and
Ric Flair fought against each other Inoki against Ric Flair you know And still to this day,
North Korea and Japan has no diplomacy that the Japanese passport,
you cannot go to North Korea.
(42:38):
It was when Inoki was the upper house parliament, you know, the active politician
and not retired wrestler.
He put together a peace festival, you know, and Inoki was the only person who
could go back and forth with Japan and North Korea freely. at the time.
(42:59):
And Eric Bischoff talked about this a lot, right? You know, because he sent,
he wanted to make it look like New Japan and WCW put together a package and went to North Korea.
Nah. It was Antonio Inoki's, you know, promoting.
Antonio Inoki brought the entire
New Japan roster, including New Japan American, like Lord Warrior Hawk,
(43:26):
Scott Norton, Wild Pegasus Chris Benoit, and two called Scorpio.
And WCW wrestler who was brought was Steiner Brothers and Steiner Brothers and
Ric Flair and Eric Bischoff were with them, right?
And they aired a mini pay-per-view package in America.
(43:47):
But what was important was that Antonio Inoki was able to bring Muhammad Ali
into North Korea for that event. That's right. Right.
That's, yeah, yeah. So it was like, so bringing American hero Muhammad Ali into
North Korean turf, only Anthony Yoki could do, huh?
(44:08):
I think so. He did a lot of, he pulled off a lot of magic, I think.
He did things. Through the years. He did things that only. Unthinkable. Only he could do it.
Only he. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's the kind of person he was.
There's a realness to. All the way to his passing, you know,
(44:29):
up until a couple days before his passing.
Up to his technology, he was running his YouTube programming.
That's right, the YouTube channel, the Inoki channel. Yeah, 79-year-old Antonio
Inoki running a YouTube channel up until just days before his passing.
I think he was even on national TV a couple days before. Right, right, right.
(44:54):
The 24-hour TV marathon thing for the charity. Charity, charity.
Always on, always working, always at work.
In public eyes, yes.
But this, you know, they weren't talking about this, like evaluating like this
(45:15):
way back in 1970s or even 80s.
But after this MMA thing that Muhammad Ali against Inoki fight became pretty
much the beginning, I mean, as a study goes,
beginning of what what it's called mma now
yeah yeah so inoki was
(45:35):
in a way always pioneering and some
you know some fantasy and some fiction some non-fiction right because inoki
was old fashion wrestling promoter and wrestler that all all the way till i
mean even after he's retired as an active wrestler he was telling people that
when he was active wrestler there was no distinguish,
(45:59):
I mean, we didn't distinguish, you know, there was no difference between martial
arts and wrestling. What I was doing was real.
That's how Inoki was telling the world. I don't know about the wrestling today,
but what I was doing was pretty real back then.
I mean, real, real. I mean, I don't know that term real, you know,
(46:21):
life is real. But the nuance to it, there's a deeper nuance to it,
and there's There's a spirit to it, too.
It's a way. It's a way of living your life. Yeah.
Yeah. And after Muhammad Ali fight, you know, then Inoki started running the
series of, you know, mixed martial arts fight that, you know,
(46:42):
Inoki against, you know, the Monster Man,
or the Chuck Wepner, of course, that the Kim Croquet, that the karate fighter,
the kickboxer, to judoka, to usuka.
William Ruska was actually before Muhammad Ali fight. Yeah, William Ruska.
(47:02):
And it was when Inoki had this mixed martial arts fight, it was not on Friday
night wrestling program.
Whenever Inoki had this mixed martial arts fight, it was like a primetime special
on Wednesday night or something, aside from your regular Friday night wrestling.
So people thought, tonight's Inoki, he does different thing.
(47:23):
It's wrestling, of course. but treated differently.
Inoki against this kickboxer, Inoki against judoka, Inoki against this karate
guy, that 7.30 to 9 o'clock, 90-minute network program, like special program.
Friday night wrestling is great, but when Inoki does this mixed martial arts
(47:44):
fight, it's even more special.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
So they did that for... that the Ali fight was 1976.
And Inoki's series of mixed
martial arts fight was all the way to like 79 80
that the last one was a Kyokushin karate Willie Williams yeah yeah that was
(48:10):
like very of course believable is one thing but Kyokushin karate school against
New Japan Shin Nihon Pro Wrestling thing,
they're two different schools, you know?
Take pride to what you're doing is like the best of martial arts, right? Yeah.
And also there's a picture, interesting photo, that a week before Inoki-Ari fight.
(48:39):
I told you about the one at the Korakuen Hall, there's a practice TV,
you know, Inoki's filming, working up, and Ari shows up and what he did was
just jumping ropes, not that much.
But Muhammad Ali was kind of like a professional wrestler-like that he and Inoki
(49:00):
walked towards each other and face off like they were going to fight, right?
They weren't going to do it, but like a promo purpose, of course.
Muhammad Ali walked right into Inoki and Inoki face off. There's a photo.
What's interesting is that the wrestlers, Japanese young wrestlers,
who's like holding, you know, Ali and Inoki, to not to fight, holding it.
(49:26):
It is young Killer Khan, the young Fujiwara, the young Satoru Sayama. It's all in the photo.
Inoki and TV Asahi people and just a couple, and also Inoki's then wife, Mitsuko Baisho.
Like the biggest movie actress at the time. Yeah.
Mitsuko Baisho. And Inoki's Ken Tajima was Inoki's number one interpreter.
(49:51):
And it's basically TV Asahi people, not like Fujiwara or anybody like that.
But for the workout TV show a week before the match,
you know Ali showing doing jump rope
you know he's doing you know like a little spying session
with Fujiwara or Musami Kido or Kengo Kimura but who was around around the ring
(50:14):
was that this 18 year old Satoru Sayama years before Tiger Mask right and big
huge Masashi Osawa year before he was Killer Khan to stop in the fight and Fujiwara
nobody knew who he was then then, right?
Like samurai, you know, like a kagemusha kind of guy, right?
And all these, you know, that New Japan t-shirt, top and bottom,
(50:39):
you know, younger fighter, then all became somebody, you know?
So it's really interesting to see what's in that old photo. Yeah.
Yeah. So now that it's 48 years later, it's like looking back the history pieces
who was in that environment then.
Young Lion Satoru Sayama, can you imagine that? I can because I think being...
(51:07):
Inoki side for that i'm sure it inspired
something in sayama to
become who he became and also and he
was you know rest you know wrestling fan growing up
but the satoru sayama's another hero was always bruce lee and that was a big
that was big in hollywood in general in the 70s was yeah bruce lee and kung
(51:30):
fu the explosion of kung fu yes all over the states yeah yeah in the The theaters, too.
Oh, in Japan. Japan, all over. All over the globe.
It was a global thing. And when the biggest movie, Enter the Dragon,
came, he was already dead. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah. So it was even more mysterious, you know? Yeah.
(51:52):
But that was like every year when June 26th comes, you know,
you can't help but think about this Inoki-Mohamedari fight.
Well I was 9th grade you know but it was one of the biggest things as a kid
growing up I was 9th grade so not a little kid not an adult but like a 15 year old guy,
(52:17):
trying to figure out what the wrestling is or what the Muhammad Ali Inoki fight
would be and you really watched it real time you know like a live feed and didn't
understand quite a bit but I don't think anybody did. It was all new.
It was very... Most people were disappointed because it looked like a nothing
(52:41):
happening fight, right?
I was not all that disappointed like most people, but it was like I was puzzled.
Why didn't Inoki do this? Why didn't Muhammad Ali do this?
Why didn't he do this and why didn't he do that? You know what I'm saying? They couldn't.
The rules were like straight jackets for both of them. They couldn't do anything.
(53:05):
More on the Inoki part, you know? It was something that didn't really favor the fans.
It was more of saving face for everybody in the ring.
Because they were expecting a big backdrop or big suplex or drop kicking or
alley punching and Inoki chopping something, right?
(53:27):
But it was very, very exciting, just like something that you can be proud of to be a wrestling fan.
But Inoki didn't lose, did he? Well, I believe there was a book in English by
Josh Gross, and there was a statistic of him.
I forget the name of the outlet,
(53:48):
but they did a statistic where they went to a website and registered how many
what we call significant strikes in MMA and boxing statistics these days.
I think Ali, it was about nine punches he threw and connected with four.
(54:08):
All together? All together. Yeah, and it was Inoki, the total of like 78 kicks.
Kicks. And connected with like 40-something, 47 or something like that.
So if you gave it to an MMA or boxing judge today, you'd have to say Inoki won.
(54:28):
Inoki won. Yes. Yeah, but that's MMA.
Or boxing or anything. But combat sports evolved from that point is what I'm trying to say.
Yeah. And almost as a wrestler, we are wrestling fans, right?
And wrestling people. Yeah.
Winning and losing almost isn't as important.
(54:49):
That match took place that time is very important.
Because that, they could cancel it, right?
You know, like so much promo and everything else that people dreamed of having
in Okinawa in the same ring and actually having them imagine all these things that.
(55:13):
Almost didn't happen you know that Inoki and his people really worked so hard
to not let Ali's people pack up,
and leave you know and Ali was all ready to walk in the ring you know all handling
all handling I mean like a crazy Muhammad Ali against crazy Antonio like two genius,
(55:37):
you know, that there's Inoki Entourage, Ali Entourage, right?
But those were two actually be in the ring.
They were the king, king that night.
Yeah. So that's like, as we grow older, I think we understand this whole thing much better.
I think as MMA grows, as pro wrestling and boxing grow, this was an important
(56:02):
point. You can learn a lot from studying just this one match.
I mean, there were books written on just this one event.
Oh, in Japan. In English? In English, yeah.
Especially about Ali's career. A lot of boxing literature or journalism out there.
There's a lot of coverage of this era.
Yeah, Ali did something crazy. Lots of different perspectives because media
(56:28):
people in boxing, there he is. Great shot.
This is DVD.
I'm going to watch it one more time probably. You can survive all 15 rounds.
It's pretty brutally boring after a while.
No, it's not boring at all. Every second is pretty important.
(56:48):
I watch it very carefully, because it's like boxing, basically, three minutes.
There's a counting, and it's really tight.
No boring moment for me.
There were a lot of people in the crowd, I remember, from watching the video
of it that were starting to shout.
(57:09):
Towards the end, weren't they? Boring. Yeah. Fight.
Yeah, but those were uneducated audience then. I think most people were uneducated
still back then. Yeah, right, educated.
Yeah, and then expected something like a full contact fight.
And did you know the ringside, the most expensive ticket was like 300,000 yen
(57:30):
at the time? Right, yeah.
The sponsors got it, yeah.
Yeah, but the 3,000 yen. I mean, now the WrestleMania is like ringside tickets
inflated way too expensive.
But 1976, 300,000 yen, like you have $3,000 for ringside ticket.
That's outrageous then. It was a high status occasion.
(57:53):
Everything about it was high status. So I think that also gave it that feeling
of being more than just a regular show or just a wrestling match or a boxing match.
Yeah, it wasn't a wrestling show. No, it was a global event.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Something crazy. Something like that.
(58:15):
And I'm glad, you know, I watched it as a kid, you know.
Now that you have to go back and watch the old video or just kind of talk about
it or study, you know, what was happening then, you know.
But it was like the whole buzz, whole just buzz was in Japan at the time. Yeah.
And I remember that, you know, really well.
(58:38):
It's been 48 years I can still
talk about it there's so much we could extrapolate
from it I think maybe next year we should talk let's talk
about it again next year June 26th I'll probably watch this DVD probably two
more times until then I'll have to revisit it myself then at your word because
(59:02):
it's not boring really it's not anymore, you know.
And for some people who don't like this, you know, MMA thing or the mixed fight
or you know, just a lot of older wrestling fans almost had this preconceiving
notion that it would be boring.
Oh gosh, I can't stand it. Because I think that you have to study it. People prejudice.
(59:27):
That's all correct and for sure. But I also think it's,
You can't watch it for entertainment value. You have to study it for a lot.
You get a lot more out of it if you watch it really seriously.
I mean, some people don't want to do that. That's a free time.
They can do whatever they want.
(59:48):
But that's just, you need to. Well, today's wrestling audience or the younger
generation people, they cannot sit through two hours. We're living in a different world.
That's asking a lot. Even the new movies, you go into YouTube,
they give you a 10-minute clip of the new movies that's out there now.
(01:00:12):
They cannot sit through a two-hour movie, so they watch this 10-minute clip.
Somebody came up with this 10-minute clip of the movie. Like a preview.
It felt like you've watched the whole thing. Yeah. And then you felt like you watched.
I mean, you think you know everything about it, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, but for a longer match, was it WrestleMania XII then?
(01:00:37):
The Bret Hart against Shawn Michaels, one-hour match? Iron Man match.
And after 60 minutes, they go into sudden death for another six minutes or something.
And I don't think I felt that was long.
It was like I enjoyed the entire match. A lot of people complain about that
one, but it's for different crowds, different tastes different crowds I love
(01:01:01):
them that's one of my favorites I recently re-watched I recently watched 1957.
Luthez against Ricky Dawson 61 minute fight that's great yeah,
Yeah, it's a really, really good match. 1957, Korakuen Stadium,
60-minute, you know, 60-minute, no fall. You know what I'm saying? Not one fall.
(01:01:24):
But it was, like, a really good build-up of the match, you know.
I guess you have to be, like, really mature, you know, to watch a 60-minute
match. I mean, you got to think about it now.
There are so many new fans getting into it. And I'm just thinking about it a
lot because it's been 20 years from being 20.
(01:01:46):
I'm going to be 40 soon, so I'm thinking about the past 20 years a lot and how
so much has just popped up within 20 years to keep up with everything.
It's just I don't know where you start. So I understand it's hard to ask people.
Your brain is a lot more mature than 20 years ago. Of course, yeah, of course.
(01:02:11):
Okay, go back and watch Bret Hart against Shawn Michaels.
That's one of my all-time favorites. That's a favorite match of mine.
But I'm trying to speak, as we're on the show, I have to speak for like the
general, there's a general population out there.
Quite a few people don't like that match. I am aware of that.
(01:02:32):
And for the same reason. You can't make them like you.
Because we all cultivated different tastes, growing up where we are and but
the good wrestling match is good wrestling match that hasn't been changed much
you know there's Antonio Inoki Dory Funk Jr.
Title match 60 minute you know that's also 60 minute match really good you know Inoki Billy Robinson,
(01:02:58):
that's 60 minute too yeah that's pretty
I mean really good that is something that ages every
year it looks better and more realistic
yeah it's not boring no way yeah no i i mean yeah it's a lot of people can't
get over they they're they're not there they're not ready like a less high spot
it's high it's too well because it's it's not as immediately gratifying.
(01:03:27):
I mean with their there's a style not as immediate gratifying i mean okay with
pro wrestling that we're talking about that we love,
like I just covered a blood sport on the observer website that is most in line
with the style of wrestling.
I think we're talking about today is that trying to fight in a way that would
(01:03:51):
be realistic in reality is.
Or our world, would this actually work? And I think that goes or connects to Inoki's mindset.
Yeah, I guess some of the wrestling fans are not looking for reality.
No, they're looking for a fantasy version of the more recent modern pro wrestling
(01:04:15):
that's been out there for 40 years.
Or the match to look just like your video game. I mean, there's a lot of,
there's like a formula for a lot of new style matches that kind of,
it gets more and more condensed every couple of years.
The length of it. One more 60 minute match that's on video is the 1995 Manami
(01:04:40):
Toyota against Kyoko Inoue 60 minute match.
I believe, I think 95 was also when Kobashi and Kawada had a 60 minute match.
Oh 94 95 it's kind of famous that
then kawada against kobashi 60
minutes sound like non-stop matching because their stamina
(01:05:00):
is good you know i can't remember the venue
but i remember because it was one of the first
cassette tapes that i owned a long
time ago when i said like vhs vhs but
yeah you know usually talking about tape trading
for a moment you'd sometimes get a
tape that would have two hours length or maybe three hours
(01:05:22):
length or one hour this match
was so long that it would often fill up most of
a cassette tape that was the japanese
videos the matches were longer so it would be one
tape with one match so it's easy for me to remember because
i remember it like an object but again that's
neither here nor there that's another one of these 60 minute
(01:05:44):
great matches that people should
take the time to watch and just enjoy it's hard we're distracted i mean beyond
what generation just simply just simply study everything that's going on i think
that's sometimes it's hard to ask i mean people find it difficult it's not enough.
(01:06:08):
I don't know. Okay. So today we talked about Muhammad Ali, Antonio Inoki, 1976, June 26th match.
You know, and, you know, Muhammad Ali passed away, what, 2016?
Yeah. And Antonio Inoki passed two years ago, 2022.
(01:06:28):
And both, yeah, kings are gone.
But we will be talking about Inoki-Muhammad Ali fight you know periodically you know,
let's do that every year I think so and there's two more years until the 50
so I think there's a lot more that we can talk about too there's a lot that
also made Inoki famous in America before I forget if you remember the Bad News
(01:06:54):
Bear movie yeah yeah Bad News Bear go to Japan he had a cameo and Inoki,
yeah not the cameo but a couple important scenes that you know Inoki as a martial arts champion.
Yeah so so hollywood you know
wanted inoki too then yeah and of course that's where
(01:07:14):
you know he got his theme song that
we often hear i mean this is connected
to ali this is from ali right ali oh ali bombay inoki bombay so oh ali gave
him that so what so yeah so the the chant Can't was from the Rumble in the Jungle,
(01:07:37):
the match he had with Foreman and Zaire.
Yeah, Ali Bomayeh. That was the local language for saying, Ali, kill him. Ali, kill him.
Yeah. Fight, fight. But not as crazy sounding as that. And then he kind of took
it for his own after the Ali match.
And it's that group. It's a great funk group, Mandrill.
(01:07:58):
They did the recorded version of Ali Bomayeh.
Which is also used for Inoki. Ari. But Mandrill, yes. Because Ari gave him that music.
And from that point on, it became Inoki Bombaye. And he played the song until his passing.
Yeah. So. Very important. You could see how these little things get passed on
(01:08:21):
and how they survive generations.
Also, Inoki, Muhammad Ali, as great as he was, Inoki, great as he was, he became equal.
Yeah. So that was, yeah, very historical.
I mean, a lot of things came out of that. I mean, we could probably talk just
about MMA, how it affected MMA only.
(01:08:44):
You know what I mean? And the type of person who would do unthinkable,
thinkable, you know? Yeah. Unpredictable. Yeah.
Yeah, and then make impossible possible, the kind of person they were.
All right. Okay. So. And we should do the questionnaire show,
you know, question shows. We're going to get to those soon.
(01:09:06):
Yeah. And also, we'll be releasing a lot of archives from now on.
Yes. Yeah, keep checking back.
Antonio Inoki episodes, Misawa episodes, the Keiji Muto episode.
What else? Baba. I can't remember. We did a lot. I know that.
And I just found a couple of, actually more than a couple of older episodes. In an old computer.
(01:09:29):
Yeah, from another drive. So the full Inoki series, I think that's five parts.
Five episodes. Giant Baba.
Giant Baba 3 episodes. Riki Dozan is up there already that you can find out
on YouTube or our archive on Podbean.
All kinds. I have to sift through them. Keiji Muto, Masa Chono.
(01:09:50):
Chono, Three Musketeers.
Johnny Powers, Dick Murdock. adrian adonis funks hansen two episodes and hansen two episodes on jumbo,
bruce brody no not yet you didn't want to do it you didn't want to do it you
wanted to wait i did you wanted to wait here's a brody episode yeah okay because
(01:10:12):
because i have to organize my thought we're still waiting that'll be a special
one but we'll do we could do that anytime yeah Yeah,
because July 17th,
or in Japanese calendar,
July 18th is Bruce and Brody Memorial.
So, yeah, let's talk about Brody. We could talk about that.
(01:10:35):
And our interviews with Medusa and Debbie Malenko, X-Pac, Sean Waltman.
Everything's available. There's a lot of good stuff, and there's a lot more
good stuff coming. So just keep an eye out.
If you're watching on YouTube, just keep an eye out. please subscribe and
there's a bell notification that will notify you when our
new stuff is up and if you hit that it really
helps the show kind of move up to other people's
(01:10:58):
eyes and then we get more views and then ultimately can do more cool stuff right
yeah okay if people want to reach you outside of this where can they reach you
mr saito uh on x twitter Twitter at Fumihikodayo,
F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O-D-A-Y-O, Fumihikodayo.
(01:11:53):
Music.
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