September 18, 2024 • 61 mins
This is NOT a Jonas brother, but it is a conversation with the podcast's bestie, and pop star icon Ari Zizzo! Togay, we get an original song, and the first part of 2 in regards to sobriety and the journey Ari took towards this.
Stay with us for "exactly" one hour, while we discuss this, play a classic gayme (designing an entire pop career -- tour, album, lead single, the whole nine lives / yards for his cat). Which propels Ari to WRITE the song itself. That's right, this episode features an original song, written for... a cat! And, of course, this episode includes the iconic segments from everyone's favorite southern mom and pop! Linda LaFaye and Dad!
Don’t forget to like and subscribe to the podcast! Your reviews help us so much! And we'd love to hear from you @youvegotanhour on IG and TT. Share and tag us on your own socials! Yessss besties!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the podcast. This is you've got an hour with Adam Griffin,
(00:02):
unless you want it to be someone else and then I'll pretend to be that person.
I like coin, pay me.
Not me telling you to pay me. What is this a DJ set?
You can't just like pay me and that I change into a different person.
I'm not completely AI yet. I'm only potentially AI.
And today speaking of not AI, this has nothing to do with AI.
(00:23):
Today we have a Jonas brother on, but not Nick, Joe or... that other third one that... now the name
escapes me. No, this is my friend Ari, who totally could be a Jonas brother.
The voice. I don't have voice. It's like smooth, butta. It's like smooth, smooth, butta.
Butta, who's talking about butta? Oh my god.
PETA, don't come after me. PETA! PETA! PETA!
(00:46):
That's PETA. Not like PETA or my cousin, because I'm also a Griffin.
My sister's name is literally Meg, which was probably awkward for her in school.
I actually know it was. Family Guy reference. Anyone with me still?
PETA!
Wait till you hear, because he does sing for us today.
Yeah, that's right. You're going to get original music and a cat pop star.
(01:06):
That's the only teaser I'm giving you.
Thank you for being on the podcast today.
You are so, so very welcome.
What's so crazy is that we've been friends for a long time, but we've always been work friends.
And we've never hung out one-on-one.
I know.
So this is a special treat for me, just in general.
I've been living through our phones, talking to you off and on, but also listening to your music.
(01:29):
And just I feel like it's almost overwhelming, because you feel like you're not even a real person almost.
It's like, did I dream up this wonderful human in my life, or do you really exist?
Do you know what I mean?
So normally we start with games, and I've got a bunch of stuff, because you are a pop star in the making.
And I was thinking, I need to know some basics, because we never hung out one-on-one.
(01:50):
So I want to know, what's your favorite genre of pop?
Ugh.
Categories can go all over the place.
You know, it's pop.
But to me, there's like, you know, there's sleepy pop, and then there's like, electro pop,
and there's funk pop, and there's disco pop.
I mean, there's so many different variations.
What do you lean towards when you're listening by yourself?
In general, I don't listen to a ton of like, today's pop music.
(02:14):
Ooh, that's a hot take. I like that.
Yeah, I've just...
Board by it?
Yeah, board.
I'm bored. I think there's too much of the same stuff out there.
It is like, everybody either sounds like Billy Eilish.
They're in that sleepy camp.
Yeah.
Or they're all trying to be...
Sabrina Carpenter.
Yeah, they are. They're trying to be a Sabrina.
100%.
And like...
(02:34):
Well, there goes my pop career.
[laughs]
That's stuff.
I love like early 2000s.
Like 90s to like mid 2000s pop.
Oh, that's like the pinnacle.
That's the pinnacle.
The pinnacle of everything. Like when Max Martin like red one, all those guys...
Love a red one.
Yeah.
All those guys are just...
And Benny Blanco in his earlier days.
(02:55):
I mean, he's still...
Can I curse?
Yeah, absolutely.
He's still a fucking genius.
There you go.
It's actually the podcast isn't called.
You've got an hour.
It's called you've got a fucking hour.
[laughs]
Fuck?
Yes.
No, we're not keeping it PG here.
I love pop punk.
Oh, yes.
Big pop punk fan.
Yes.
I'm honestly, I'm really into the Willow Smith thing.
(03:16):
Because we're getting a hint of that, even though she's leaning more towards jazz right now.
I know nothing about this.
Oh, we are going to be listening after those.
Okay.
Because I'm a huge fan.
Fuck yeah.
Yes.
So here's what we'll do.
You've got an amazing gorgeous cat here.
We're going to curate a pop career for your cat.
[laughs]
Oh my god.
So first and foremost, before we get to the name and the branding,
(03:39):
we've got to start with what genre of music is this cat.
And for the viewers at home, we'll not viewers.
But the listeners at home,
this is like a very,
think of like Mr. Darcy had an affair with Garfield.
This is that cat.
Did I nail it or is that so not accurate?
I met your cat for five minutes.
He is super chill.
So chill.
(04:00):
Super relaxed,
incredibly loving, cuddly.
The perfect, I don't want to talk about the weight of the cat as I don't do this all.
I do 25 pounds.
Yeah, perfect weight for a cat.
He's massive.
But he's also just a big cat.
He is.
He's like a long boy.
Yeah, it's actually, I thought it was a Jaguar when I first came in.
I was a little confused.
I felt the same way when I first adopted him.
(04:20):
I literally, when he walked into my apartment,
I turned to my ex-girlfriend.
I was like, I didn't know they made cats that big.
Yes.
There's no way.
Oh, and that is like, if I ever go somewhere,
that's exactly what I want right there.
There's a cat in our apartment complex,
because I don't have an animal in my house.
I have a bamboo tree.
Fat.
You know, that's as far as I can go with that.
And it's not thriving.
(04:40):
But there's a cross-eyed,
siamese cat.
I can't handle it.
Oh my god.
I don't know if it's looking at me
or where it's really looking.
Right.
I mean, with cross-eyed, you would think you'd really know,
but you don't, because one's a little wonky.
So yeah, so let's think of a whole career for this cat,
because I'm seeing a pop future for this.
What's the genre?
What's the vibe?
(05:01):
It's my take me a minute.
That's okay.
I have an idea.
Tell me if I'm way off base here.
Okay.
I'm feeling sort of like,
Kylie Minogue is a great person to use as an identity
for pop music in general,
because she's had so many different iterations,
different chapters of her pop life.
And I am seeing a version of Kylie here,
(05:22):
and I want to know if you agree with it.
It's not the tension album.
It's not put on.
It's not the big 2000s early can't get you out of my head vibe.
I don't think I know any other Kylie Minogue.
Oh, there's, okay.
Well, then we'll use a dick.
Cut that and done that in her dream.
I was going to say the first album,
Kylie ever did was like,
everybody's talking like the locomotion,
(05:42):
and like, it was like very Australian 80s pop.
That's cool.
Because this guy is definitely Australian.
Oh yeah.
That's actually really funny.
Do you feel that?
Like, when you have an animal,
do you feel like you hear their voice and a different...
I've never pictured him with an Australian accent,
but it's kind of perfect.
It is.
It's kind of perfect.
Oh yes.
(06:03):
I'm like kind of leaning.
These are very different people.
Oh good.
Either JoJo.
Oh, not Ceywa.
Or nope.
Okay.
Just JoJo.
We have to be very punctual on that because...
I can't with the JoJo Ceywa.
I am so...
Yeah, no.
That movement, everybody's doing it.
(06:24):
It's not good.
It's not very bad for you.
It's like the Wiggles if they didn't have the plural.
It was like Wiggles and it fell off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say like also kind of Billy Eilish
because he's like sleepy and chill.
Yeah, sleepy pop really should be the genre for this.
He's not really loud.
His meows sound like a deflating balloon.
(06:46):
Like it's ridiculous.
It's just like...
Okay, let's go down the Billy Eilish train because I'm into that.
Looking at the cat here, I can sense that.
I can feel it.
What song is sort of like the epitome of the cat
for us to start this career where we're going to mold it from?
(07:07):
Like we're in the room, we're pitching this cat.
What's the song?
I know this is ridiculous.
This is amazing.
Who cares?
Oh, I'm on there.
Oh good.
Yeah, what's the song that is like the hitch of this song?
I think for him it would be...
What the hell is it called?
Everything I wanted.
Not bad guy?
No.
I just can't.
Well maybe when he has zoomies that little...
(07:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Greeny is.
Just that one hook.
Is him when he has zoomies?
100%.
Yeah, that's a little of like the through line
through the first album.
Yes.
We've got three acts, but they all have that connecting piece.
Perfect.
I'm into that.
Okay, so let's now that we've got this sort of like sleepy pop,
how are we going to differentiate your cat from a Billy Isle's catalog?
(07:48):
Like what's going to be the difference here?
Pause.
Gotta correct myself when I'm wrong.
And Billy does not wear oversized jumpsuit.
She sometimes wear oversized clothing.
Okay.
Glenn Close, No Sagar, but Billy all eyelash.
Maybe it's not the oversized jumpsuit.
Maybe it doesn't have to be the clothing,
but we'll get there in a second.
(08:10):
Like what's just the little bit of difference?
Aside from cat noises.
There.
And walking on all fours.
That true.
Well actually I heard she does that.
Oh.
Yeah.
Yes.
She tries to hide it.
But you know, her and Finneas have a whole dynamic going on there.
Which I don't really want to get into because it leaves
Game of Thrones-y if you know what I'm talking about.
Oh.
Having on the end bread is what I'm seeing.
(08:32):
And I hope that's not true.
And I hope she doesn't listen to this.
But anyway,
I said that not you.
[laughter]
Fair.
It's hard to say.
I know I'm giving hard pressing questions.
I'm like the SAT for ADHD.
That's my tagline.
I think everything's got cat ears.
You know, Ariana's got the signature pony.
And I know that's a little literal because it is a cat.
(08:52):
But like as a human doing the pop music in this cat essence.
I think we would have to throw a tail in there.
Oh, you want the tail too?
I don't know if the tail would be overkill.
Hmm.
Okay, maybe he is more subtle than that.
Like the cat ears could be like,
it doesn't always have to be ears on the head.
It could be ear necklace.
Ooh.
It could be ear belt.
It could be ear shoes.
(09:13):
Ooh.
I know, I'm like kind of, wow.
Maybe I should-
Maybe I should-
We should do this.
Maybe do this.
Yeah, what would the name of the band be?
Because I have an idea and I want you to come up with ears
before I speak mine.
I feel like just his name wouldn't be perfect.
Yeah, tell everyone what the name is.
It's a mango.
Yeah, mango's such a deliciously wonderful fruit and name.
It's vibrant.
It's juicy.
(09:33):
It's like you chillin' when you eat it.
It's actually my favorite fruit.
Oh, hell yeah.
And he's like kind of the shape of a mango.
He's like-
Yes.
Like a little narrow on top
and then this voluptuous ball is-
Yeah.
Rest of it's bumpy.
Do you know what I have in my car?
I'm not even joking.
I have a seltzer right now.
It's just water.
But like the water seltzer flavor is mango.
(09:53):
Hell yeah.
And I didn't know because you call him Minj.
I call him Minj.
Minj.
I always say it wrong.
Minj.
Minj.
And I think-
I think it's-
Well, I'm like on a Miss Maisel kick, so I'm thinking Minj.
Fair.
But I love Miss Maisel.
Me too.
Except that last season was kind of rough.
But you know, that's neither here nor there.
I didn't write it, so who cares?
Would have written it differently.
But yeah, mango could be a good name.
(10:15):
I was thinking like Catatonic.
Mmm.
And like maybe the first-
Maybe the second album is about like, you know, addiction
and it could be like Cat and Tonic.
Cat without Tonic.
And then it just drops that.
Ooh.
Yeah, and then we get a rebrand into mango.
But that would be like a new band.
I'm thinking like third album in.
Mango off the jump is good.
Yeah.
I think.
Yeah.
It just works kind of perfectly.
(10:36):
What's the like- what's the first song?
What are you pushing the label towards?
I would say-
I love how seriously you're taking this.
I just- I love that.
Well, you know, he's my son and I care about his career
and his future.
You do have kind of like a Mufasa and Simba Vah.
Together.
Without the death, there will be no-
No.
None of that.
Dramated out the 27's club.
(10:57):
Yes, we did.
Oh, that's a high five moment right there.
That's a real.
I feel like he'd have to have at least one single
that sounds like an enyous song.
Oh, my God, in love in you.
Oh, no.
I just like-
Do you think that's second or do we lead with that?
No, I think that would be like second or third.
Yeah, like to juxtapose what's going on.
(11:19):
First would kind of be like a post-moloan song circles.
Is that what it's called?
Oh, I love that.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
Just something with like-
Okay, for sure.
When I was a rock band-base.
You know, he could definitely go the country route.
No, I don't think that.
Or like you, Gras, but-
No, he's-
There's something secretive.
Yes.
Like questionable.
(11:39):
Yes.
But a good hook.
Yeah.
It's like it's bringing you in almost like a siren
a little bit but sleepy siren.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Okay.
Maybe the song is called siren.
Ooh.
Yeah, but it's like instead of in the water,
it's like in the litter box.
[LAUGHS]
And we're-
I'm leaning in a little too heavy with the cap.
Okay.
It doesn't need to be this forward with Katniss.
(12:02):
Oh, Katniss could be a good music video idea.
Little Hunger Games actually.
Could be a good name too.
Oh.
And it would be C-A-T instead of Kat with the K.
Because we're not a Kardashian.
I'm not getting that kind of money up.
Absolutely not.
Mango couldn't be further from that.
No, it couldn't be further.
That's a definite no.
There it is.
Bro!
Hey!
(12:22):
Okay, so for the first, we've got a sort of post-melone vibe.
Then we've got an Inya vibe.
What's the album name?
Or is it just-
Or is it even an EP?
Like, how long is this album?
I feel like his debut should be an EP.
I do too.
I'm thinking of solid four to five songs.
Yeah.
But I think we would save the Inya vibe for his album.
(12:45):
Yeah, there we go.
Now we're talking.
It would be more of like a like raw, like real instrument.
Solid players on the album.
Yeah.
No features.
No.
But maybe a remix off of the first hit that kind of like sleeper hit comes out.
That I do because I love EDM.
Yes.
Oh my god, yes.
Wait, so I was thinking I spice, but now you're talking EDM.
(13:07):
That's a whole different way.
So we're getting, who are we getting on this?
Like, are we getting Kempetras?
Are we getting like a Charlie?
I mean, Charlie would be boss.
Charlie plus cat.
Charlie X cat X.
What?
Are you vibing with Charlie's new album?
I haven't listened to all of it.
Okay, we have a lot of homework for you.
And now I'm stressed.
Okay, I did too much homework coming into this.
(13:29):
Because I now I'm like brat.
And you literally have like a boogie board here that is brat.
I know.
Every song I've heard off of it, I've liked.
I just, I'm so like stuck in my like EDM bubble.
See, you didn't leave with EDM when we were talking about your favorite though.
I was going to, but we moved on.
(13:49):
We did.
Well, we're going to move on fast when it's me.
I'm driving the train off the rails.
At all times.
I know that my main note is going to be let the guest speak more.
I would think like he would have like a nice like disclosure remix on.
Ooh, oh yes.
And you know what?
(14:10):
I think Diplo would throw in a track at some point.
You know, a little feature with Diplo.
Oh, I could do that.
Maybe a little David.
I never know how to say the last thing.
Get a, Guetta.
Get a, get a, yeah.
Like get up and shut up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love him again.
My mantra in the morning.
Oh, yeah.
You know who actually is surprising me and I know you don't love like new age pop at all.
(14:32):
Paris Hilton has a new song out.
It's called I'm free.
And I don't really know where those lyrics came from because she's always been free.
And and wealthy.
So that's a very weird choice.
But it's a good song and it's interesting.
We'll have to listen to that as well.
I would love to.
We'll come back with hot takes from Brat, Willow and Paris.
(14:53):
Oh, I'm so down.
Okay, so this career is shaping up to be quite a success for your cat.
I would agree.
Would you want to do that with your cat or are you like in competition with each other?
Oh no, I would absolutely do that with him.
I think I would also be his manager.
Oh, we would need to.
Mm.
Oh, momager, you know.
Absolutely.
If we're coming up with this, we need more than 10%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And a mom can take a little off the top and the bottom.
(15:15):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That's right.
Even though you say he's got nothing in common with the Kardashians,
we're literally acting like a wrestler.
So.
Okay, I'm loving the pop career.
Where are we trying to push the cat to perform live first?
I'd say first out here would be a hotel cafe.
Ooh.
A key.
Well, we do have to start.
Launch.
(15:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, like iconic but small.
Yes.
Nice YouTube feature.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah.
Maybe, you know, it doesn't have to be Tiny Desk with something adjacent.
Because that kind of vibe.
He could do a Tiny Desk when he's a little more.
Yeah, you have to be established for Tiny Desk.
Yeah.
And he'd have like a really Tiny Desk because he's a little man.
Oh.
(15:55):
I'm going to cry.
Please.
Oh my god.
Oh, the Tiny Desk setup would be so good.
It would be like an actual Tiny Desk.
Oh my god.
What does NPR even stand for?
What is that?
Now, pretty ready?
Mm-hmm.
National public radio.
Probably that.
Okay.
Now, pretty ready?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're going to go random here.
Okay.
I've got word association.
(16:17):
I don't know if you've ever seen one of these games where I throw out a word
and like, you're supposed to give me a pop song as normally.
How that goes?
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to like give you--
We're not doing a quiz.
Okay.
Because this isn't actually the SAT.
But when I'm going to give a word from a song that I love
and we're going to develop a song, idea, or motif off of that for the cat.
(16:38):
Okay.
First, we're going to start with Lightning.
Lightning.
That's a good for EDM.
I know that's immediately where my head one was like a Kasha kind of thing.
Yes.
But it could also be like a moody stormy.
Ooh.
Break up song.
Another Kardashian reference stormy just saying.
I'm just gonna torture you this all happens out.
(16:59):
Oh my god.
Yeah, I would say like--
Yeah, I would go more like dark moody.
Like a rebirth through Lightning.
Oh, I like that.
Getting through a storm.
It's got a good mantra to it, EDM. It's going to be like light lyrically,
but that's like the vibe, that's the understatement.
(17:19):
Yeah.
And like it's really about the thunder actually,
but Lightning is the what we're leading with.
Just because that's how it goes.
It goes in that order, lightning and then thunder.
This is true.
This is a scientific podcast.
Oh, oh, I'm so sorry.
So such a science narrative.
Were you really?
Yeah.
Oh, I would have cheated off your test.
Yeah.
Okay, so favorite song title of all time.
(17:41):
And I'm really close with someone with this name.
It's probably not going to be what you think.
I'm going to say it's Rianan.
I love Fleetwood Mac.
I love Fleetwood Mac.
They're not really pop, but I mean, it's in the pop culture.
So the name Rianan, I think, could work for a cat.
It's mystical.
It's mythical.
It's sort of, I don't know any other merge words.
Would be a good cat name.
Yes.
Maybe he wrote a song about another cat.
(18:03):
Oh, maybe it's an ex.
Or was like writing about an ex and like trying to like disguise her name.
Yes.
And maybe there's like an incantation going on.
I'm seeing music videos with the paws.
Eln the Cauldron.
Can you see it?
The fucking pushing tarot cards out of the screen.
Oh my god.
The cat plays every character in it.
(18:23):
Oh my god.
That would be crazy.
No, and I don't really, do you think your cat's going to dance?
Like, is there going to be choreography ever?
No.
I think he would just have his fierce ass walk.
And there would be a lot of lounging.
Okay.
Maybe on a throne of some sort.
Yes.
Or like just like a established chair.
(18:44):
Oh, an established chair is established.
Okay.
I don't even know what that means.
No, no, it's established.
Wow.
Okay, love that.
We really went there and we've got a whole vision for Rianan.
All right.
I'm going to skip throat goat.
I don't know why I wrote that one down.
I was listening to a lot of Kim while I was thinking about this.
(19:04):
I don't think that's good for, let's not, like that, that lyric stat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I also wanted to say my favorite song title.
What please do is two kinds of silence by foxes.
Okay.
Now I have to listen to that because I don't remember that off the jump.
Such a good song.
I just love that title and it's a great lyric in the song.
(19:26):
Say the title one more time.
Two kinds of silence and like defining that in a relationship.
I'm guessing off the jump that it's like, you know,
there's good silence where you're comfortable and then there's discomfort
or those the two kinds.
Like awkward silence versus like really comfortable.
I don't think it's as much of a like on the nose definition of silence.
(19:49):
Yeah.
Pop can be ambiguous.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't know.
You have to listen to this song.
I will.
Listeners.
Go listen to this song.
Yes.
It's such a jam.
From foxes.
Foxes.
Yes.
Oh, now I'm thinking fox in the how.
That is so sad.
Okay.
That's not where we're supposed to go.
All right.
Now I've got a couple of words here and feel free to take whatever you want.
Schmorgasborg added this and create your own title.
(20:11):
But we've got like pure, which I think is a great word for a song.
So I'm obviously leaning in heavy to what I like.
And it's supposed to be not biased.
Pure love, heart, coconut, because it's common.
French.
That's it.
Yes.
It's so good.
The remixes.
If that doesn't get her the vote, I don't know what will.
Oh my god.
I didn't even like watch what it's from.
(20:33):
I've just seen the clip of her saying that.
And I've been meaning to see what the context is.
She's talking about her mother.
It's actually a quite profound statement.
Her mom is of Indian descent.
And she's telling her, you know, you didn't just, you didn't just arrive here in this moment.
What you're supposed to do with your life is more pressing than just you didn't just fall out of coconut tree.
(20:55):
You're a whole being.
There's a reason for your existence.
There's a reason for you to be here.
I love very beautiful.
That's it.
But we've made it funny.
Because now it's serious.
Meam culture is something else.
Oh my god.
It gets me through the internet.
It really does.
Yeah.
Same.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So with any of those words, though, do you feel something coming out?
(21:16):
And it could be, I'm interested to see which album it would reside on as well.
So we had pure, we had love, we had heart, we had coconut.
Coconut would be like a cute whimsical song about another cat that he likes.
I love that we've got so many X's in the, in the denim.
Oh, mangoes of, come on.
Look at him.
Big green eyes.
Throw goat.
(21:37):
It came back.
Came back when it shouldn't have.
Oh my god.
But having him named mango and then having an ex name coconut.
Yeah, come on.
I mean, it could be like a tropical house song.
Yes.
It could be like a big rum punch before the sober album.
Ooh.
See?
Okay, now we're getting to it.
And the song could be called Malibu.
(21:58):
Oh.
Coconut was the, was actually coconuts was a chem album.
Our song and then also that is also a title of a chem song.
Malibu.
We really?
Yes.
So funny.
So that's interesting.
Thank you.
It's interesting because the cat is so not in the lane of chem.
No.
At all.
But we've kind of got like a tangent of some of the like
content, lyrically names of chem.
(22:21):
Uh oh, I'm seeing a chem duet coming in the future.
Oh my god.
That would be epic.
So with this, this is my favorite of the songs that we've
thought of, this Malibu thing.
Yeah.
Let's think about like maybe what is the, like what's the hook?
Like what is the, we don't have to get into the like symphony of it.
But what are you thinking lyrically?
Oh god.
Off the jump.
You make songs so fast.
(22:42):
I was like, this is so up your alley though.
It is.
And it isn't.
Well, you know what?
I'm going to torture you and now it has to be.
This is now your whole brand.
[LAUGHS]
Like I either write really quickly or sometimes it just takes me a minute to like
do.
Well, definitely.
But there was a time during, I think it was maybe the pandemic.
(23:05):
Oh, the Tendollah song project?
Yes.
Yeah.
No, talk about that for a second, because that was wild.
The Tendollah song project was a kind of like just random endeavor that I had amidst
the pandemic.
I was like, as most of us words, very depressed and bored and--
(23:25):
Oh no, it was the happiest time in my life.
Oh yeah.
You know what, Loki had some of the best memories during the pandemic?
No, some are good.
Yeah, some are good, some are good.
He came out of it alive, which is sort of a blessing, I guess.
Absolutely.
I felt very like uninspired and like I wasn't doing enough of my time.
So I made like a random Instagram post.
There was a lot of pressure at that time for no reason.
(23:46):
I know.
It's crazy.
But you, off of that, you had a whole creative resurgence because of that.
You felt pressure to make something?
Yeah.
I kind of consistently do just for me.
Oh yeah, you're always working.
Yeah.
And so I made a post and offered to write people personalized one to two minute songs for
(24:07):
$10 a pop.
And I got a lot of requests and I ended up writing and producing a 33 song album or project.
I didn't realize it was that long.
Yeah.
And like all across different genres.
I had songs for friends.
I had songs for family.
I had songs for strangers.
I had songs for friends of friends.
(24:28):
How long did it take you to write 33 songs?
The whole project took me about like five to six months.
That's insane.
33 songs in five to six months.
Yeah.
That's like saying to Jane Austin, you're going to make every book you've ever written.
This month, bitch, go for it.
And she showed up.
She was so lazy.
(24:48):
It was like, it was very inspiring because I.
I typically write songs about myself.
This was a really unique opportunity to take other people's feelings and stories and have
to kind of relate them to my own life in a way to be able to tell a story about them.
(25:12):
And I had never really done something like that, especially like for strangers.
People I didn't really know anything about or like I didn't know what their vibe was.
I could be daunting.
Yeah, it was while I was like anticipating it.
But once I was able to talk to the people and just like just take whatever information they
gave me and use my own experiences in life as a way to relate to it.
(25:33):
And you made a whole concept album off of it.
Yeah.
It was, it's still probably my favorite project that I've ever done.
I wrote some of my favorite personal songs and like I had a blast doing it.
And especially just seeing the way it touched other people, especially the people who I wrote
for.
It was very personal like now this person has their own song written for them, which is
(25:56):
really cool.
Yeah, they should have paid you way more than $10.
Yeah, to be honest.
And like sure, but it totally wasn't about that, you know.
And some people did pay me a lot more than $10.
Which was lovely.
And I wasn't expecting that.
Not everyone.
Oh, I mad.
I mad for you.
That's your bommager I mad.
Oh my gosh.
No, it was so not about that.
(26:17):
And it was more about like working out this muscle and like also honing in more on my production
and mixing skills and like challenging myself to write.
Yeah, because you do the mixing yourself, which is insane to me.
Yeah.
Like not only do you, lyrically come up with a song and the composite and all of this,
you're actually mixing it, you're finalizing it.
I don't like, there's so many levels and that's insane.
(26:40):
Thank you.
In a positive way.
I hope that if you ever have doubts with yourself that you look back at that moment and
you say, I made 33 songs for strangers during a global pandemic.
I can do anything and now I have to do it for mango.
There's no excuses.
Okay, here you go for mango.
Now, let's make the course.
Oh my gosh.
Malibu, bout an ex coconut.
(27:02):
Is it EDM vibes?
No.
I wasn't leaning one way or the other.
It sounded suggested.
You know the song, darling, darling by Halsey?
Yes.
Kind of thinking that.
Okay.
All right.
Give me some dark pop vibes.
Yeah, but like pretty guitar, like acoustic, stripped.
(27:23):
Totally had that wrong.
I don't know what I was thinking of.
Yeah, no.
Okay, totally stripped.
Yep.
Okay, there we are.
Now we've arrived.
Give me five to ten minutes and I will write.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We will be, but only after a few words from my mother.
Hi, everyone.
This is Linda Lefei and I've always got something to say.
The best topic is about paying attention to what's going on around you.
(27:47):
Take it in.
I love to watch people and imagine what their day looks like.
I think that means I'm interested in more than myself.
There's so many selfish people out there just thinking about me, me, me.
How can that make a person happy?
Just get up, wake up, look outside yourself.
There's so many people who need a little help.
(28:07):
A smile.
An odd.
Our time on this earth is pretty short and we were made to be kind to others.
So when you push me down the road and crawl up my tailgates because I'm in the left lane
going seven over the speed limit, how about you consider me, your angel keeping you out
of the next speed and ticket or worse, a wreck.
Or when you get irritated that the person in line in front of you at checkout is challenged
(28:31):
quickly swiping their items and to use their card to check out quickly.
Would you please just calm down?
Use that time to have your cleansing breath.
Take a big long inhale.
Hold it for a little bit and release it slowly.
Do it again.
And this time, say to yourself, I'm thankful I can breathe and not cough or need oxygen.
(28:53):
Be nice.
You're welcome.
That was my mother, don't you just lover?
And you know what?
We also love my father, so let's give him a second.
Adam is dead.
Times up.
Not in a literal second.
Wow, brevity.
Don't you love it?
As somebody quite long winded.
I think there's a message there for me.
But I don't have time to unpack it.
(29:14):
I gotta get back to the show.
Not before I say just a few things.
I don't do disclosures or trigger warnings or anything like that because real life conversations
don't permit that.
But if you are not in a place where you're ready to hear or discuss sobriety, then this
is probably not a topic for you.
However, you would be missing out on some really great conversation.
(29:38):
So I hope you stick around.
And the conversation is literally flowing for so long that it's going to spill over into
a second episode.
That's right.
Here's a little teaser.
Ari's not just on this week.
Ari is also on next week.
And I get a big ol' one-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop,
Falkhorn because this is actually part one of a two-part feature, our first ever.
So let's dive in.
(29:58):
Okay.
Cool.
I beg your Dolly pardon, you just like made up a whole thing right now.
I beg your Dolly pardon.
Nah.
You know I gotta be a little corny.
What in the world?
Are we recording?
Yeah.
Okay.
So we had Malibu as a title/Kokenutri.
So I wrote a verse in a chorus.
(30:19):
Look at you summarizing it real quick.
Dude.
I mean, what a great assignment holder you are.
I got you.
I got you, Professor.
I got you.
You did this.
I have to say, it's gonna sound like we just took no time at all and we didn't.
Like it literally like the moment that it took to do the ad break is how long it took for
you to write this.
Have chords.
The whole thing is so impressive.
It was like watching an Olympian.
(30:42):
I don't know.
People are about to be blasted.
Oh my god.
I haven't heard of you yet and I'm so ready.
I can't look at you though because I'm gonna cry.
Okay.
Go ahead.
I'm gonna kinda like make up a melody on the spot a little bit.
Literally no one's gonna know.
Okay.
Alright.
Let me see if I can balance this on my leg.
Would you say?
I said can I balance this on my leg?
There you, I don't know.
(31:03):
We'll find out.
If you all hear a crash it's a, I'm getting abused.
No, it's the guitar.
I'm just abusing my cat, you know.
This is not a big deal.
He's not a star yet.
You got a whip of a minishape.
That's not, we're joking.
That's bad.
Oh my god.
Thank you.
Here's Malibu.
I thought coconut trees could never take you from me until the day I stood alone now
(31:38):
on the beach.
I think about you and how you went with the breeze and hope you're somewhere being
who you meant to be.
Malibu and you and me, sixteen and I couldn't see.
(31:59):
I couldn't even find a night you leave.
Thought I looked you in the dark.
And see you driving in your car here you're speaking silent to me.
Don't you regret, get upset.
(32:20):
Don't forget me when you hear me playing on the radio.
Malibu and you and me, everything we couldn't be.
So we're falling in a mystery.
(32:42):
Are you kidding me?
I'm going to have to just do applause for the masses here because that was so, I need a
moment.
You're so talented.
It's insane.
Thank you.
I'm having hot flashes and it's not good.
It's not in this room.
That was so, first of all, sexy.
You killed that.
That was insane.
(33:03):
What?
For a cat.
I want to talk about.
He's going places.
He's going places.
This is really, we're really craft, we're seeing the beginning of a real career here.
Absolutely.
He telepathically communicated some of these words to me so I can't take all the credit.
Yeah, no, if you don't use that, like that is so good.
(33:24):
Thank you.
I mean your music's always good but that was, that was good.
Thank you man.
I am so into that.
I'm interested to see where it goes further from this but I like it with just the
guitar.
I liked it stripped down.
You had the right vibe for this.
I didn't think you were going to be anything but sincere with it because you understood the
assignment but like I'm so corny.
I thought it was going to, I don't know what I thought but you just succeed on my expectations.
(33:47):
I was just phenomenal.
This is a good segue and to pop start them and we've had some serious conversations on
the side about some of the challenges that you've been facing and you're in a good place
right now and I hope that you're recognizing that and feeling that.
Thank you.
You know, us seeing each other and we haven't seen each other in a while so I don't want you
to feel pressured to be anything other than your authentic self.
(34:09):
You're on a journey right now that can be arduous, can feel lonely and whenever possible
you need to fill up lifted because you are working through it.
Do you want to talk a little bit about what you had to go through to get to the place
that you're at right now?
Yeah.
I would love to.
First of all, thank you so much.
(34:31):
Doing stuff like this absolutely uplift me so I'm super grateful.
We'll have you back on.
Yeah, we would love to have you back on.
Super grateful you asked and that you're here.
This has been super fun.
I totally did not anticipate getting to write so this has been awesome.
Yay!
I didn't want to wear you out.
No, my god.
Not at all.
Okay, good.
Not at all.
(34:51):
Plus we're doing it for my son, my kitty.
My future pop star.
Look at him.
Oh my god.
But no, yeah, my journey in life has in general not been the easiest.
I have had a lot of love and support along the way and could not have done or achieved anything
(35:18):
in my life without that love and support.
So big shout out to my family and all my friends and all the friends I've made along the
way.
Yeah, that is important to have a community around you and those moments.
It's so important.
Cause we're specifically talking today about sobriety.
Yes.
I've especially learned through sobriety that you really can't do anything alone.
(35:42):
You just can't.
That doesn't mean don't give yourself credit where credit's a due of course, but yeah,
make sure you keep that part.
It takes a village.
For me, when I do feel like I'm doing things alone, I also have faith in my own concept of
a higher power that I feel is a guiding light for me through a lot of this.
(36:08):
There's a little like backstory.
So I'm transgender.
I have known my identity as a man, as a boy for the entirety of my life since I was, since
I could stand up on my own two feet and open my mouth.
It's just, I just knew who I was and unfortunately, you know, I didn't have the language to really
(36:38):
express that to other people or even understand it myself.
You know, feeling like I was born in the wrong body and, you know, like imprisoned in myself
and that I would have a really miserable life of just being hidden and anchored down to
(37:07):
a body and a person that wasn't who I knew I was.
That was really scary and a lot to carry as a child, which led me to seeking relief and
the easiest way for me to do that was to get into drinking and doing drugs.
(37:34):
How early did that start?
So I had, I started smoking cigarettes when I was 11.
11?
I had mine.
I was born from North Carolina.
From New York City, everything was very much available to me at all times.
Yeah, because you grew up in the city proper, right?
Yeah, yeah, up a re-side Manhattan, like Yorkville area.
(37:57):
Up a re-side, up a re-side, alright, not in that part.
Yeah, okay.
I have to like, like clarify that with people, it's like I didn't grow up and fucking
fifth after you, but I knew a lot of people that did.
We were walking to the flagship Ralph Lauren store every day.
But now so, you know, I started smoking cigarettes 11, smoking weeded around 12 or 13 and drinking
(38:22):
around the same time.
I got like proper drunk in eighth grade at like a house party with beer that I had stolen
from a grocery store.
There was a grocery store across the street from my middle school that I would go to every
day.
And just stuff my bag with bottles of whatever I could get my hands on and then go drink
with my friends.
(38:43):
It was ridiculous.
And I got away with that soon.
So that's fun.
But city kids, what do you got?
I got like, definitely got alcohol poisoning and was just doing, cook that night.
Also I had my first kiss with a girl that night, which, cute, which was like not what I expected
(39:05):
and nobody at the time knew that I liked girls.
That was just so scared of people knowing the truth about me.
You were hidden on a lot of levels here.
Yes.
Sexuality and gender identity.
I just didn't talk about those things.
I didn't know gender identity was a fucking thing.
It really wasn't a known thing in society.
(39:27):
I mean, where did we have examples for that?
Yeah.
That was never talked about.
Exactly.
So this is like 2009, 2010.
I eventually got to a point where I felt like I just had to say something.
So I came out as a lesbian at first.
And that was kind of relieving and everyone around me was like, well, duh.
(39:52):
You know, actually the first person I told was my mom and we were in the middle of fighting
about me slacking in school.
I just did not do the work and had no attention span and no like room inside of my head to
even fathom trying to squeeze math and fucking push it in there.
(40:15):
I mean, first of all, school stuff.
Yes.
So I hear you.
But also on the other molecular levels that you had going on, how would you have time to
learn new things?
You don't even have a foundation for yourself or the verbiage for it.
Yes.
Exactly.
Exactly.
No one understood why because I wasn't communicating why and I had no idea how to.
But how would we know?
Right.
So I was in the middle of a fight with my mom in her bedroom and she was like, you know,
(40:39):
home or come or come or come or come or yelling at me.
And I was like, man.
She was like, what?
I was like, what a great impression of your mother.
She totally doesn't sound like that.
No, not at all.
But I literally just blurted out.
I'm gay.
And she was like, you don't think I fucking know that.
Do you fucking homework?
She was like, oh, she didn't care at all.
(41:00):
I went straight to my room and I had my little like stash of alcohol in my cupboard.
I had like smirin' off ice and Mike's hard lemonade where my go to is delicious.
But I like took all the bottles out and I sat on the floor and I was like, oh my god, you
did it, dude.
Like, that wasn't so bad.
And so I like drank like smoked some weed and smoked a cigarette out my window, which
(41:20):
was like my nightly ritual and fucking eighth grade.
So I slowly started telling my friends that I like girls and that kind of evolved into
a two part coming out thing, which was I liked girls, but I want to be a boy.
When did that start happening?
Very shortly after.
Like this is like summer going into night grade, which is when I eventually officially came
(41:42):
out as trans without using that word, because I still didn't know.
I told my dad, my dad had a hunch that I wasn't telling the whole story when I just came
out as like in girls.
He was sniffing around, doesn't it?
Yeah, he was like, I feel like you're not saying something.
(42:04):
And I was like, yeah, like you're right.
Let me try to explain this to you.
I haven't just worn boys clothes my whole life because they're more comfortable.
You know, like this is how I want to express myself.
It's how I feel on the inside.
I've felt like a boy in my whole life, but I feel like it's wrong because it doesn't make
sense.
It's crazy.
(42:24):
Like, who is born into a body and then feels like they're the opposite gender?
Like, how does that happen?
And I don't know what's wrong with me, you know, and all that shit.
And my dad was just so heartbroken for me and immediately supportive.
And came out to my mom, she did not understand.
(42:48):
It took me a little while to really get through to her that this was a real thing, not me
reacting to the divorce, not me like wanting to be more masculine.
It was like, no, I am a boy.
Yeah, I'm not butch mom, I'm a man.
No, she literally was like, I don't understand why you can't just be butch.
(43:09):
And I laugh at that now because, oh my god.
Yeah, you have a good relationship, thankfully.
Yes, I have a very close and loving relationship with both of my parents.
My parents did a little research found out that there was this thing at the time called
gender identity disorder.
They took me to a specialist.
I got diagnosed with an extreme case of gender identity disorder, which is now no longer
(43:32):
in the same.
What is that?
That means like you think you're in the wrong body and it's almost like there was no
quote unquote treatment for it other than to allow that person to transition to the
other gender.
So was it good?
Was it a good thing?
It was a good thing.
Okay.
Yes.
It was the way it's word, it sounds like it's like anti.
Right.
And it was perceived that way after more and more people began to come out and then officially
(43:55):
like removed from the DSM.
But at the time, you know, they gave me a label.
I was like, oh, I fit under something.
This is something that other people must experience since there's a name for it.
And I found out about the word transsexual transgender.
So it was affirming in that way.
So it was very affirming.
That's good.
I didn't feel like this lone mistake because I felt that way in my whole life that I shouldn't
(44:21):
be here.
That something went wrong.
Something was wrong with me.
And now I still felt that way to a degree, but I at least knew that I wasn't alone.
I went into high school, socially transitioning as a boy, which was very hard.
But I got very badly bullied in high school and constantly misgendered and, you know, things
(44:43):
that were for me at the time very, very hard because I, in a way, was alone throughout
a lot of my transition being the only trans person that I knew.
And I had to navigate what that meant to me without any real role models or any friends
that were going through the same experience, which, you know, led me even further down
(45:06):
the path of abusing alcohol and drugs.
I loved to party.
I loved to be the life of the party.
I loved to feel good and better as I did when I got drunk and I got high.
And so that immediately became my go-to coping mechanism for anything and everything I dealt
(45:26):
with, which, you know, I struggled with my mental health too.
I was diagnosed with depression and ADHD and anxiety, eventually bipolar too.
From a very young age and was on medication from a very young age, it really helped me a lot,
but it wasn't the end all be y'all.
But the weight of that, yeah, that's a lot at once.
(45:49):
Yeah, it was a lot at once and it was too much for a kid to handle.
And my original high school did not handle me with care or well.
They actually eventually expelled me because I was too much for them to handle.
And what was their excuse?
What was their excuse?
(46:09):
What was their excuse?
Their excuse was that I failed chemistry.
Who didn't fail chemistry?
Exactly.
Also, a trans person failing chemistry is so I rhyme.
I know, right?
Like you didn't fail chemistry, but no.
But yeah, that's what they said was the reason I know that that wasn't it.
I don't think they could handle the amount of emotional instability I brought with me to
(46:36):
school.
Of course, I was going to be unstable and all over the place.
That's kind of a little more high school.
Yeah, I was very suicidal.
I skipped class constantly.
I wasn't a good fit for that school anyway.
And I looked back and I'm grateful that it happened.
But it's sad that that happened.
(46:57):
Yeah, it doesn't diminish the pain of that.
Right.
Like they didn't allow me to use the boys restroom or the boys locker room or on board
the dance teams.
Oh, fuck them.
Yeah, it was really fucked up.
But it led me to finding my second high school, which was a professional children's school
on that.
(47:17):
What is a professional children's school?
So it was, it's a school that's been around for over a hundred years now, probably 110
years now, specifically designed for students that have like artistic or professional endeavors
that are like a charter school then.
I don't know much about a charter school.
I mean, I don't even know what I just said.
But it's like it's specific.
(47:37):
It's specific in the need.
Yeah, it's like it was a very special school.
So there were a lot of actors, young actors, young musicians, young dancers.
Oh, okay, it's giving Macauley Cawkin.
Yeah, I think he actually might have gone to my school like that reference paid off.
Any, any freaking celebrity you think of that's from New York went to my school like Scarlett
(47:59):
Johansson, Yo Yo Ma, Vanessa Carlson, Nicky Wins, like Nicky Wins.
No, I got Britney Spears.
All right.
A lot of amazing people came to that.
No wonder you're a pop star.
Oh my gosh, I was very, very excited to go there and to be at a place that would help
cultivate my creative life.
Whose ideal was that was that your moms, your dads, or yours?
(48:21):
It came through one of my mom's students.
So my mom is a singer, songwriter, and a vocal coach.
My dad's a record producer and songwriter.
Now an actor.
It's okay.
You can tell us that the car owners, it's okay.
It came from a very musical background.
So a lot of support around my music career, which just began from a very, very, very
(48:45):
young age.
I just started playing piano and guitar when I was like four and singing and writing songs
at 10 and playing shows at 10 and like, my parents just kind of like threw up their hands
and were like, let them do this thing.
Yeah.
Which was awesome and I appreciate them not getting involved either.
So it allowed me to really explore this on my own.
(49:07):
Yeah, they weren't like Mama, Drew.
No, no, not at all.
So I feel very proud that I've earned everything I have in my career on my own and through my
work ethic and my talent.
Nothing's been handed to me.
But yeah, my second high school was awesome.
The drinking, the drug, using progressed quite a bit.
(49:27):
I was a massive stoner in high school.
Like my first, I'd say real addiction was weed and then cigarettes and ambion, the sleeping
pill.
Because I was prescribed to that as a kid and I realized that if you stayed up long enough
on it, you would like trip and I loved it.
So those are my first like addictions.
(49:47):
Still love to drink, but I could like go a day without it.
But I started experimenting with more drugs like cocaine.
I was prescribed to Adderall.
Yeah, I was on a lot of stuff and having a lot of fun and partying did a lot better in my
last two years because I was just a lot happier.
Everybody at my school was very--
Because of the cocaine.
Yeah, of course.
Everybody at my school was very affirming and I had no issues with my transition there.
(50:16):
And when I started high school, when I started 11th grade at this new high school, so I started
T in 2012.
So I was like 15 going on 16 and then I got top surgery that summer, July 16th of 2012.
And then went into this new high school.
So you did all that right before the new high school though?
Yes.
Wow.
(50:37):
Yeah, it was a lot.
It was a lot.
That was a big summer.
It was.
It was.
It was a life changing and saving summer.
Yeah, I went to college at SUNY Purchase College, Westchester, New York, study music there.
There at Music Conservatory, I was in studio composition.
(50:57):
I fucking loved it.
You know, going into college, I really felt a sense of freedom.
Obviously everybody does when they enter college, but for me to really explore my identity in the
world even further.
I actually went into college stealth, meaning like I didn't come out to anybody or let anyone
(51:21):
know that I was trans.
I didn't want anyone to know.
I was still not very connected in a positive way to being trans.
It was still something that I felt I wanted to hide.
I just wanted to be quote unquote normal, and quote unquote normal boy, normal man, right?
(51:42):
And I'm very fortunate to pass.
I hate that word, but because you can't see me like if you saw me, you wouldn't assume I
was a trans person.
But when I got to purchase a lot of people who came to that school from the city knew who
I was or were friends of mine.
So going in, that kind of just became a thing that people started to find out about me.
(52:06):
I kind of had to tell people because on one hand, I didn't want people to think of me
any differently, but on the other hand, I was like, this is something I feel I need to
share.
It's just a big part of me and my life.
And maybe I can hopefully reshape people's perspectives on what a trans person is or should
(52:32):
be by just being authentically myself and being open to having very uncomfortable conversations
with people who ask a lot of very uncomfortable questions.
And I just don't fucking care.
I don't care.
It's no care.
I like the 180 and the power that that holds versus when you were going into college and
you were like, I'm going to separate myself from this identity.
(52:53):
I'm not going to talk about it.
I'm not going to have it present in my conversation.
So having the power from that, I like hearing that.
Yeah.
And I think college was a way for me to really explore what masculinity meant to me.
You know, doing all of these like stereotypical heteronormative masculine things.
(53:19):
Yeah.
And being a grad being a grad, you know, dating a lot of girls, shit like that.
I loved it.
It was fun.
I never got to do that.
I never got to just be a boy.
So I wanted to do all these things that you need.
Your inner child was probably thriving.
Yes.
And college.
Yes.
I also like grew up an athlete.
(53:39):
So I was really excited to get to play a sport in college.
And to be the leader of a chapter of a fraternity, which normally has such, you know, a
bad connotation.
It can.
Yeah.
And to prove to my very small liberal art school that not all fraternities or chapters have
(54:01):
to be shitty.
Right.
So was there no Greek life and you made this charter?
No.
Oh, God.
You were the one and only Greek organization on our campus.
And you like are the one that rostered that.
I mean, it started it.
It was me and a group of guys who can't take all the credit.
But I thought.
No, I think you should.
This is my podcast.
I put a lot of work into it.
(54:22):
My fraternity recognized my trans identity and they were very proud of me.
And I was awarded a couple scholarships through them, which was amazing.
From the charter itself, from the Greek life?
From my contribution to my chapter and to the fraternity.
Yeah, chapter.
I couldn't remember if it's chapter or charter.
No, you're good.
You get a charter to start your chapter.
(54:42):
That's what it is.
Yeah.
But it was amazing.
We also gave a space for other guys who felt really out of place on campus to make
friends and come into their own.
We hosted a lot of really big social events, a lot of parties and like did a lot of service
work, which I'm sure you loved.
Yeah, you loved the party.
Love the party.
So being in college and involved in that kind of lifestyle, my alcoholism really began
(55:06):
to take hold.
I also became very addicted to cocaine, like really, really badly.
To the point where when I was 20, I kind of realized I had a problem.
And decided to go to my first meeting.
Like I went to a cocaine anonymous meeting and started going to alcoholics anonymous meetings.
But I couldn't quite grasp the idea of sobriety.
(55:31):
What that meant.
What that would look like for me.
I could not fathom giving up alcohol.
I just thought, okay, now I've stopped doing this one drug.
That means I'm doing the damn thing right.
You cut a piece of the pie out and you're still indulging in the pie.
Exactly.
But we're ignoring that the pie is there.
(55:51):
Right.
I did not understand that sobriety meant abstinence completely.
Once I figured that out, I was like, no, I'll stop doing coke though, which I did for a
while.
By my senior year, I was starting to abuse my adderol, which I never had before.
I started doing cocaine again, drinking a lot by myself, drinking every day, taking
(56:16):
booze to class.
That's often where it sneaks up is when you're by yourself.
Yes.
I, from the time I was a kid, smoking weed and cigarettes out my window, I loved getting
high and drunk by myself.
Often when I would get drunk at parties, I would Irish exit and go like explore and do
fun things by myself.
(56:37):
I got to like, yes.
You could escape from it.
I could just feel the good feelings, feel other than how I normally felt, forget about everything
else, focus on fun things and creative things and adventurous things that I thought at the
(57:00):
time I could only truly access through substances.
It's not to say I didn't write and perform and make a lot of music without drinking and
drugs because I did, but as I got older and more mounting pressure of life began to like
get at me, I saw the comfort of my toxic best friend, which was alcohol.
(57:25):
Fast forward to the pandemic.
That is really when my alcoholism went like to a new level.
Yes.
So, let's not fast forward just yet though because that's a largely, I get the book end of
where that's headed, but in the interim though, you did the cocaine anonymous, you cut it
out for a while.
And then what does that look like for you in the, let's say, 10 years between the pandemic
(57:51):
and cutting out cocaine?
Like are you just drinking casually in your mind or?
Yeah.
When I drank, I drank a lot, drank very hard.
I was doing other drugs, like Adderall and Ambien again, a lot of Ambien and Conflict.
You're a pill bro.
Love pills.
Yeah.
But alcohol was like the main, that was my shit.
(58:11):
Everywhere I went, any activity I did, I had to have alcohol.
Because I was like, it just makes everything more fun and easy and I'm more confident and I'm
more this and I'm less mad.
Well, an alcohol is dangerous like that because it's so passing in society.
Yeah, it's like embedded into our culture.
You turn on a show they're drinking.
(58:33):
You go anywhere.
Wine Wednesday, Margarita Monday.
Crazy.
For a long time, people are not thinking there's a problem there, right?
Especially because I was in college, in a frat, on a sports team doing all the stereotypical
things that align with that lifestyle and I had nobody around me telling me they thought
(58:59):
I had a problem.
Because I was very high functioning.
I was like a straight A student, very involved on campus.
But yeah, the only person I really had in my ear being like, "Hey, you drank too much."
Was my therapist, of course, who I'd been seeing since I was 14.
He was the only other trans man I knew.
(59:20):
Oh, you had a trans therapist that's so helpful.
He was great.
But he was like, "I would encourage you to revisit AA and..."
How'd you try AA before?
Yeah, this was after I went to CA and AA.
So you did both simultaneously for a minute?
Yeah, for like a hot minute, like three months, two months.
But again, I wasn't actually sober.
(59:41):
Right.
I didn't start the steps.
My sponsor was a woman who tried to fuck me and found out I was trans and then ghosted
me.
So that was fun.
And then I stopped going to AA.
She really needed to sit through the steps.
I hope she's still sober.
Yeah.
Shout out Chris.
Anyway.
Not the Chris.
(01:00:02):
Not the Chris with a K.
Was it with a K?
Was with a K.
Oh, no.
I know.
And then the whole Hillary Trump election was going on and I found out that she was very
pro-Trump and conservative and I was like, "Yep, I'm really glad."
That math is mathing.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I do want to fast forward to the pandemic because life just didn't dare.
(01:00:25):
I needed to know how we got to here.
Yeah, I graduated from college.
I moved from New York City to Los Angeles in September of 2018.
I was like, "I just began my life out here in LA."
I drank a lot but it wasn't like I was like, you know, locked away in my room isolating
(01:00:45):
drinking every day.
I drank every day.
I got drunk every day.
But again, like no one would notice because I didn't.
I wasn't a messy, crazy chaotic drunk.
Yeah, it wasn't inhibiting you in any way from your functions or my job.
No, exactly.
It was just I thought something that I almost needed to function better.
(01:01:08):
Therein lies the problem.
I think this is the perfect place to pause and that is a cat reference, P-A-W-S.
I am going to note, next episode in part two, we are not going to have a game because it
is the finishing of this conversation right on through.
See you then or you won't see us.
But we'll talk to you then.
Thank you so much to my guests, Ari Zizzo.
(01:01:30):
Thank you for being back next week.
And thank you to the listeners.
Thanks out there.
Like and subscribe.
And Chris Capuchino.
You're on thin ice.
You haven't produced.
What's going on?
Yes, the record still reflects that Chris is not really a real person but in the context
of this.
Do you think the podcast just fell out of book?
Welcome back to the podcast. This is you've got an hour with Adam Griffin,
(00:02):
unless you want it to be someone else and then I'll pretend to be that person.
I like coin, pay me.
Not me telling you to pay me. What is this a DJ set?
You can't just like pay me and that I change into a different person.
I'm not completely AI yet. I'm only potentially AI.
And today speaking of not AI, this has nothing to do with AI.
(00:23):
Today we have a Jonas brother on, but not Nick, Joe or... that other third one that... now the name
escapes me. No, this is my friend Ari, who totally could be a Jonas brother.
The voice. I don't have voice. It's like smooth, butta. It's like smooth, smooth, butta.
Butta, who's talking about butta? Oh my god.
PETA, don't come after me. PETA! PETA! PETA!
(00:46):
That's PETA. Not like PETA or my cousin, because I'm also a Griffin.
My sister's name is literally Meg, which was probably awkward for her in school.
I actually know it was. Family Guy reference. Anyone with me still?
PETA!
Wait till you hear, because he does sing for us today.
Yeah, that's right. You're going to get original music and a cat pop star.
(01:06):
That's the only teaser I'm giving you.
Thank you for being on the podcast today.
You are so, so very welcome.
What's so crazy is that we've been friends for a long time, but we've always been work friends.
And we've never hung out one-on-one.
I know.
So this is a special treat for me, just in general.
I've been living through our phones, talking to you off and on, but also listening to your music.
(01:29):
And just I feel like it's almost overwhelming, because you feel like you're not even a real person almost.
It's like, did I dream up this wonderful human in my life, or do you really exist?
Do you know what I mean?
So normally we start with games, and I've got a bunch of stuff, because you are a pop star in the making.
And I was thinking, I need to know some basics, because we never hung out one-on-one.
(01:50):
So I want to know, what's your favorite genre of pop?
Ugh.
Categories can go all over the place.
You know, it's pop.
But to me, there's like, you know, there's sleepy pop, and then there's like, electro pop,
and there's funk pop, and there's disco pop.
I mean, there's so many different variations.
What do you lean towards when you're listening by yourself?
In general, I don't listen to a ton of like, today's pop music.
(02:14):
Ooh, that's a hot take. I like that.
Yeah, I've just...
Board by it?
Yeah, board.
I'm bored. I think there's too much of the same stuff out there.
It is like, everybody either sounds like Billy Eilish.
They're in that sleepy camp.
Yeah.
Or they're all trying to be...
Sabrina Carpenter.
Yeah, they are. They're trying to be a Sabrina.
100%.
And like...
(02:34):
Well, there goes my pop career.
[laughs]
That's stuff.
I love like early 2000s.
Like 90s to like mid 2000s pop.
Oh, that's like the pinnacle.
That's the pinnacle.
The pinnacle of everything. Like when Max Martin like red one, all those guys...
Love a red one.
Yeah.
All those guys are just...
And Benny Blanco in his earlier days.
(02:55):
I mean, he's still...
Can I curse?
Yeah, absolutely.
He's still a fucking genius.
There you go.
It's actually the podcast isn't called.
You've got an hour.
It's called you've got a fucking hour.
[laughs]
Fuck?
Yes.
No, we're not keeping it PG here.
I love pop punk.
Oh, yes.
Big pop punk fan.
Yes.
I'm honestly, I'm really into the Willow Smith thing.
(03:16):
Because we're getting a hint of that, even though she's leaning more towards jazz right now.
I know nothing about this.
Oh, we are going to be listening after those.
Okay.
Because I'm a huge fan.
Fuck yeah.
Yes.
So here's what we'll do.
You've got an amazing gorgeous cat here.
We're going to curate a pop career for your cat.
[laughs]
Oh my god.
So first and foremost, before we get to the name and the branding,
(03:39):
we've got to start with what genre of music is this cat.
And for the viewers at home, we'll not viewers.
But the listeners at home,
this is like a very,
think of like Mr. Darcy had an affair with Garfield.
This is that cat.
Did I nail it or is that so not accurate?
I met your cat for five minutes.
He is super chill.
So chill.
(04:00):
Super relaxed,
incredibly loving, cuddly.
The perfect, I don't want to talk about the weight of the cat as I don't do this all.
I do 25 pounds.
Yeah, perfect weight for a cat.
He's massive.
But he's also just a big cat.
He is.
He's like a long boy.
Yeah, it's actually, I thought it was a Jaguar when I first came in.
I was a little confused.
I felt the same way when I first adopted him.
(04:20):
I literally, when he walked into my apartment,
I turned to my ex-girlfriend.
I was like, I didn't know they made cats that big.
Yes.
There's no way.
Oh, and that is like, if I ever go somewhere,
that's exactly what I want right there.
There's a cat in our apartment complex,
because I don't have an animal in my house.
I have a bamboo tree.
Fat.
You know, that's as far as I can go with that.
And it's not thriving.
(04:40):
But there's a cross-eyed,
siamese cat.
I can't handle it.
Oh my god.
I don't know if it's looking at me
or where it's really looking.
Right.
I mean, with cross-eyed, you would think you'd really know,
but you don't, because one's a little wonky.
So yeah, so let's think of a whole career for this cat,
because I'm seeing a pop future for this.
What's the genre?
What's the vibe?
(05:01):
It's my take me a minute.
That's okay.
I have an idea.
Tell me if I'm way off base here.
Okay.
I'm feeling sort of like,
Kylie Minogue is a great person to use as an identity
for pop music in general,
because she's had so many different iterations,
different chapters of her pop life.
And I am seeing a version of Kylie here,
(05:22):
and I want to know if you agree with it.
It's not the tension album.
It's not put on.
It's not the big 2000s early can't get you out of my head vibe.
I don't think I know any other Kylie Minogue.
Oh, there's, okay.
Well, then we'll use a dick.
Cut that and done that in her dream.
I was going to say the first album,
Kylie ever did was like,
everybody's talking like the locomotion,
(05:42):
and like, it was like very Australian 80s pop.
That's cool.
Because this guy is definitely Australian.
Oh yeah.
That's actually really funny.
Do you feel that?
Like, when you have an animal,
do you feel like you hear their voice and a different...
I've never pictured him with an Australian accent,
but it's kind of perfect.
It is.
It's kind of perfect.
Oh yes.
(06:03):
I'm like kind of leaning.
These are very different people.
Oh good.
Either JoJo.
Oh, not Ceywa.
Or nope.
Okay.
Just JoJo.
We have to be very punctual on that because...
I can't with the JoJo Ceywa.
I am so...
Yeah, no.
That movement, everybody's doing it.
(06:24):
It's not good.
It's not very bad for you.
It's like the Wiggles if they didn't have the plural.
It was like Wiggles and it fell off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say like also kind of Billy Eilish
because he's like sleepy and chill.
Yeah, sleepy pop really should be the genre for this.
He's not really loud.
His meows sound like a deflating balloon.
(06:46):
Like it's ridiculous.
It's just like...
Okay, let's go down the Billy Eilish train because I'm into that.
Looking at the cat here, I can sense that.
I can feel it.
What song is sort of like the epitome of the cat
for us to start this career where we're going to mold it from?
(07:07):
Like we're in the room, we're pitching this cat.
What's the song?
I know this is ridiculous.
This is amazing.
Who cares?
Oh, I'm on there.
Oh good.
Yeah, what's the song that is like the hitch of this song?
I think for him it would be...
What the hell is it called?
Everything I wanted.
Not bad guy?
No.
I just can't.
Well maybe when he has zoomies that little...
(07:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Greeny is.
Just that one hook.
Is him when he has zoomies?
100%.
Yeah, that's a little of like the through line
through the first album.
Yes.
We've got three acts, but they all have that connecting piece.
Perfect.
I'm into that.
Okay, so let's now that we've got this sort of like sleepy pop,
how are we going to differentiate your cat from a Billy Isle's catalog?
(07:48):
Like what's going to be the difference here?
Pause.
Gotta correct myself when I'm wrong.
And Billy does not wear oversized jumpsuit.
She sometimes wear oversized clothing.
Okay.
Glenn Close, No Sagar, but Billy all eyelash.
Maybe it's not the oversized jumpsuit.
Maybe it doesn't have to be the clothing,
but we'll get there in a second.
(08:10):
Like what's just the little bit of difference?
Aside from cat noises.
There.
And walking on all fours.
That true.
Well actually I heard she does that.
Oh.
Yeah.
Yes.
She tries to hide it.
But you know, her and Finneas have a whole dynamic going on there.
Which I don't really want to get into because it leaves
Game of Thrones-y if you know what I'm talking about.
Oh.
Having on the end bread is what I'm seeing.
(08:32):
And I hope that's not true.
And I hope she doesn't listen to this.
But anyway,
I said that not you.
[laughter]
Fair.
It's hard to say.
I know I'm giving hard pressing questions.
I'm like the SAT for ADHD.
That's my tagline.
I think everything's got cat ears.
You know, Ariana's got the signature pony.
And I know that's a little literal because it is a cat.
(08:52):
But like as a human doing the pop music in this cat essence.
I think we would have to throw a tail in there.
Oh, you want the tail too?
I don't know if the tail would be overkill.
Hmm.
Okay, maybe he is more subtle than that.
Like the cat ears could be like,
it doesn't always have to be ears on the head.
It could be ear necklace.
Ooh.
It could be ear belt.
It could be ear shoes.
(09:13):
Ooh.
I know, I'm like kind of, wow.
Maybe I should-
Maybe I should-
We should do this.
Maybe do this.
Yeah, what would the name of the band be?
Because I have an idea and I want you to come up with ears
before I speak mine.
I feel like just his name wouldn't be perfect.
Yeah, tell everyone what the name is.
It's a mango.
Yeah, mango's such a deliciously wonderful fruit and name.
It's vibrant.
It's juicy.
(09:33):
It's like you chillin' when you eat it.
It's actually my favorite fruit.
Oh, hell yeah.
And he's like kind of the shape of a mango.
He's like-
Yes.
Like a little narrow on top
and then this voluptuous ball is-
Yeah.
Rest of it's bumpy.
Do you know what I have in my car?
I'm not even joking.
I have a seltzer right now.
It's just water.
But like the water seltzer flavor is mango.
(09:53):
Hell yeah.
And I didn't know because you call him Minj.
I call him Minj.
Minj.
I always say it wrong.
Minj.
Minj.
And I think-
I think it's-
Well, I'm like on a Miss Maisel kick, so I'm thinking Minj.
Fair.
But I love Miss Maisel.
Me too.
Except that last season was kind of rough.
But you know, that's neither here nor there.
I didn't write it, so who cares?
Would have written it differently.
But yeah, mango could be a good name.
(10:15):
I was thinking like Catatonic.
Mmm.
And like maybe the first-
Maybe the second album is about like, you know, addiction
and it could be like Cat and Tonic.
Cat without Tonic.
And then it just drops that.
Ooh.
Yeah, and then we get a rebrand into mango.
But that would be like a new band.
I'm thinking like third album in.
Mango off the jump is good.
Yeah.
I think.
Yeah.
It just works kind of perfectly.
(10:36):
What's the like- what's the first song?
What are you pushing the label towards?
I would say-
I love how seriously you're taking this.
I just- I love that.
Well, you know, he's my son and I care about his career
and his future.
You do have kind of like a Mufasa and Simba Vah.
Together.
Without the death, there will be no-
No.
None of that.
Dramated out the 27's club.
(10:57):
Yes, we did.
Oh, that's a high five moment right there.
That's a real.
I feel like he'd have to have at least one single
that sounds like an enyous song.
Oh, my God, in love in you.
Oh, no.
I just like-
Do you think that's second or do we lead with that?
No, I think that would be like second or third.
Yeah, like to juxtapose what's going on.
(11:19):
First would kind of be like a post-moloan song circles.
Is that what it's called?
Oh, I love that.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
Just something with like-
Okay, for sure.
When I was a rock band-base.
You know, he could definitely go the country route.
No, I don't think that.
Or like you, Gras, but-
No, he's-
There's something secretive.
Yes.
Like questionable.
(11:39):
Yes.
But a good hook.
Yeah.
It's like it's bringing you in almost like a siren
a little bit but sleepy siren.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Okay.
Maybe the song is called siren.
Ooh.
Yeah, but it's like instead of in the water,
it's like in the litter box.
[LAUGHS]
And we're-
I'm leaning in a little too heavy with the cap.
Okay.
It doesn't need to be this forward with Katniss.
(12:02):
Oh, Katniss could be a good music video idea.
Little Hunger Games actually.
Could be a good name too.
Oh.
And it would be C-A-T instead of Kat with the K.
Because we're not a Kardashian.
I'm not getting that kind of money up.
Absolutely not.
Mango couldn't be further from that.
No, it couldn't be further.
That's a definite no.
There it is.
Bro!
Hey!
(12:22):
Okay, so for the first, we've got a sort of post-melone vibe.
Then we've got an Inya vibe.
What's the album name?
Or is it just-
Or is it even an EP?
Like, how long is this album?
I feel like his debut should be an EP.
I do too.
I'm thinking of solid four to five songs.
Yeah.
But I think we would save the Inya vibe for his album.
(12:45):
Yeah, there we go.
Now we're talking.
It would be more of like a like raw, like real instrument.
Solid players on the album.
Yeah.
No features.
No.
But maybe a remix off of the first hit that kind of like sleeper hit comes out.
That I do because I love EDM.
Yes.
Oh my god, yes.
Wait, so I was thinking I spice, but now you're talking EDM.
(13:07):
That's a whole different way.
So we're getting, who are we getting on this?
Like, are we getting Kempetras?
Are we getting like a Charlie?
I mean, Charlie would be boss.
Charlie plus cat.
Charlie X cat X.
What?
Are you vibing with Charlie's new album?
I haven't listened to all of it.
Okay, we have a lot of homework for you.
And now I'm stressed.
Okay, I did too much homework coming into this.
(13:29):
Because I now I'm like brat.
And you literally have like a boogie board here that is brat.
I know.
Every song I've heard off of it, I've liked.
I just, I'm so like stuck in my like EDM bubble.
See, you didn't leave with EDM when we were talking about your favorite though.
I was going to, but we moved on.
(13:49):
We did.
Well, we're going to move on fast when it's me.
I'm driving the train off the rails.
At all times.
I know that my main note is going to be let the guest speak more.
I would think like he would have like a nice like disclosure remix on.
Ooh, oh yes.
And you know what?
(14:10):
I think Diplo would throw in a track at some point.
You know, a little feature with Diplo.
Oh, I could do that.
Maybe a little David.
I never know how to say the last thing.
Get a, Guetta.
Get a, get a, yeah.
Like get up and shut up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love him again.
My mantra in the morning.
Oh, yeah.
You know who actually is surprising me and I know you don't love like new age pop at all.
(14:32):
Paris Hilton has a new song out.
It's called I'm free.
And I don't really know where those lyrics came from because she's always been free.
And and wealthy.
So that's a very weird choice.
But it's a good song and it's interesting.
We'll have to listen to that as well.
I would love to.
We'll come back with hot takes from Brat, Willow and Paris.
(14:53):
Oh, I'm so down.
Okay, so this career is shaping up to be quite a success for your cat.
I would agree.
Would you want to do that with your cat or are you like in competition with each other?
Oh no, I would absolutely do that with him.
I think I would also be his manager.
Oh, we would need to.
Mm.
Oh, momager, you know.
Absolutely.
If we're coming up with this, we need more than 10%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And a mom can take a little off the top and the bottom.
(15:15):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That's right.
Even though you say he's got nothing in common with the Kardashians,
we're literally acting like a wrestler.
So.
Okay, I'm loving the pop career.
Where are we trying to push the cat to perform live first?
I'd say first out here would be a hotel cafe.
Ooh.
A key.
Well, we do have to start.
Launch.
(15:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, like iconic but small.
Yes.
Nice YouTube feature.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah.
Maybe, you know, it doesn't have to be Tiny Desk with something adjacent.
Because that kind of vibe.
He could do a Tiny Desk when he's a little more.
Yeah, you have to be established for Tiny Desk.
Yeah.
And he'd have like a really Tiny Desk because he's a little man.
Oh.
(15:55):
I'm going to cry.
Please.
Oh my god.
Oh, the Tiny Desk setup would be so good.
It would be like an actual Tiny Desk.
Oh my god.
What does NPR even stand for?
What is that?
Now, pretty ready?
Mm-hmm.
National public radio.
Probably that.
Okay.
Now, pretty ready?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're going to go random here.
Okay.
I've got word association.
(16:17):
I don't know if you've ever seen one of these games where I throw out a word
and like, you're supposed to give me a pop song as normally.
How that goes?
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to like give you--
We're not doing a quiz.
Okay.
Because this isn't actually the SAT.
But when I'm going to give a word from a song that I love
and we're going to develop a song, idea, or motif off of that for the cat.
(16:38):
Okay.
First, we're going to start with Lightning.
Lightning.
That's a good for EDM.
I know that's immediately where my head one was like a Kasha kind of thing.
Yes.
But it could also be like a moody stormy.
Ooh.
Break up song.
Another Kardashian reference stormy just saying.
I'm just gonna torture you this all happens out.
(16:59):
Oh my god.
Yeah, I would say like--
Yeah, I would go more like dark moody.
Like a rebirth through Lightning.
Oh, I like that.
Getting through a storm.
It's got a good mantra to it, EDM. It's going to be like light lyrically,
but that's like the vibe, that's the understatement.
(17:19):
Yeah.
And like it's really about the thunder actually,
but Lightning is the what we're leading with.
Just because that's how it goes.
It goes in that order, lightning and then thunder.
This is true.
This is a scientific podcast.
Oh, oh, I'm so sorry.
So such a science narrative.
Were you really?
Yeah.
Oh, I would have cheated off your test.
Yeah.
Okay, so favorite song title of all time.
(17:41):
And I'm really close with someone with this name.
It's probably not going to be what you think.
I'm going to say it's Rianan.
I love Fleetwood Mac.
I love Fleetwood Mac.
They're not really pop, but I mean, it's in the pop culture.
So the name Rianan, I think, could work for a cat.
It's mystical.
It's mythical.
It's sort of, I don't know any other merge words.
Would be a good cat name.
Yes.
Maybe he wrote a song about another cat.
(18:03):
Oh, maybe it's an ex.
Or was like writing about an ex and like trying to like disguise her name.
Yes.
And maybe there's like an incantation going on.
I'm seeing music videos with the paws.
Eln the Cauldron.
Can you see it?
The fucking pushing tarot cards out of the screen.
Oh my god.
The cat plays every character in it.
(18:23):
Oh my god.
That would be crazy.
No, and I don't really, do you think your cat's going to dance?
Like, is there going to be choreography ever?
No.
I think he would just have his fierce ass walk.
And there would be a lot of lounging.
Okay.
Maybe on a throne of some sort.
Yes.
Or like just like a established chair.
(18:44):
Oh, an established chair is established.
Okay.
I don't even know what that means.
No, no, it's established.
Wow.
Okay, love that.
We really went there and we've got a whole vision for Rianan.
All right.
I'm going to skip throat goat.
I don't know why I wrote that one down.
I was listening to a lot of Kim while I was thinking about this.
(19:04):
I don't think that's good for, let's not, like that, that lyric stat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I also wanted to say my favorite song title.
What please do is two kinds of silence by foxes.
Okay.
Now I have to listen to that because I don't remember that off the jump.
Such a good song.
I just love that title and it's a great lyric in the song.
(19:26):
Say the title one more time.
Two kinds of silence and like defining that in a relationship.
I'm guessing off the jump that it's like, you know,
there's good silence where you're comfortable and then there's discomfort
or those the two kinds.
Like awkward silence versus like really comfortable.
I don't think it's as much of a like on the nose definition of silence.
(19:49):
Yeah.
Pop can be ambiguous.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't know.
You have to listen to this song.
I will.
Listeners.
Go listen to this song.
Yes.
It's such a jam.
From foxes.
Foxes.
Yes.
Oh, now I'm thinking fox in the how.
That is so sad.
Okay.
That's not where we're supposed to go.
All right.
Now I've got a couple of words here and feel free to take whatever you want.
Schmorgasborg added this and create your own title.
(20:11):
But we've got like pure, which I think is a great word for a song.
So I'm obviously leaning in heavy to what I like.
And it's supposed to be not biased.
Pure love, heart, coconut, because it's common.
French.
That's it.
Yes.
It's so good.
The remixes.
If that doesn't get her the vote, I don't know what will.
Oh my god.
I didn't even like watch what it's from.
(20:33):
I've just seen the clip of her saying that.
And I've been meaning to see what the context is.
She's talking about her mother.
It's actually a quite profound statement.
Her mom is of Indian descent.
And she's telling her, you know, you didn't just, you didn't just arrive here in this moment.
What you're supposed to do with your life is more pressing than just you didn't just fall out of coconut tree.
(20:55):
You're a whole being.
There's a reason for your existence.
There's a reason for you to be here.
I love very beautiful.
That's it.
But we've made it funny.
Because now it's serious.
Meam culture is something else.
Oh my god.
It gets me through the internet.
It really does.
Yeah.
Same.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So with any of those words, though, do you feel something coming out?
(21:16):
And it could be, I'm interested to see which album it would reside on as well.
So we had pure, we had love, we had heart, we had coconut.
Coconut would be like a cute whimsical song about another cat that he likes.
I love that we've got so many X's in the, in the denim.
Oh, mangoes of, come on.
Look at him.
Big green eyes.
Throw goat.
(21:37):
It came back.
Came back when it shouldn't have.
Oh my god.
But having him named mango and then having an ex name coconut.
Yeah, come on.
I mean, it could be like a tropical house song.
Yes.
It could be like a big rum punch before the sober album.
Ooh.
See?
Okay, now we're getting to it.
And the song could be called Malibu.
(21:58):
Oh.
Coconut was the, was actually coconuts was a chem album.
Our song and then also that is also a title of a chem song.
Malibu.
We really?
Yes.
So funny.
So that's interesting.
Thank you.
It's interesting because the cat is so not in the lane of chem.
No.
At all.
But we've kind of got like a tangent of some of the like
content, lyrically names of chem.
(22:21):
Uh oh, I'm seeing a chem duet coming in the future.
Oh my god.
That would be epic.
So with this, this is my favorite of the songs that we've
thought of, this Malibu thing.
Yeah.
Let's think about like maybe what is the, like what's the hook?
Like what is the, we don't have to get into the like symphony of it.
But what are you thinking lyrically?
Oh god.
Off the jump.
You make songs so fast.
(22:42):
I was like, this is so up your alley though.
It is.
And it isn't.
Well, you know what?
I'm going to torture you and now it has to be.
This is now your whole brand.
[LAUGHS]
Like I either write really quickly or sometimes it just takes me a minute to like
do.
Well, definitely.
But there was a time during, I think it was maybe the pandemic.
(23:05):
Oh, the Tendollah song project?
Yes.
Yeah.
No, talk about that for a second, because that was wild.
The Tendollah song project was a kind of like just random endeavor that I had amidst
the pandemic.
I was like, as most of us words, very depressed and bored and--
(23:25):
Oh no, it was the happiest time in my life.
Oh yeah.
You know what, Loki had some of the best memories during the pandemic?
No, some are good.
Yeah, some are good, some are good.
He came out of it alive, which is sort of a blessing, I guess.
Absolutely.
I felt very like uninspired and like I wasn't doing enough of my time.
So I made like a random Instagram post.
There was a lot of pressure at that time for no reason.
(23:46):
I know.
It's crazy.
But you, off of that, you had a whole creative resurgence because of that.
You felt pressure to make something?
Yeah.
I kind of consistently do just for me.
Oh yeah, you're always working.
Yeah.
And so I made a post and offered to write people personalized one to two minute songs for
(24:07):
$10 a pop.
And I got a lot of requests and I ended up writing and producing a 33 song album or project.
I didn't realize it was that long.
Yeah.
And like all across different genres.
I had songs for friends.
I had songs for family.
I had songs for strangers.
I had songs for friends of friends.
(24:28):
How long did it take you to write 33 songs?
The whole project took me about like five to six months.
That's insane.
33 songs in five to six months.
Yeah.
That's like saying to Jane Austin, you're going to make every book you've ever written.
This month, bitch, go for it.
And she showed up.
She was so lazy.
(24:48):
It was like, it was very inspiring because I.
I typically write songs about myself.
This was a really unique opportunity to take other people's feelings and stories and have
to kind of relate them to my own life in a way to be able to tell a story about them.
(25:12):
And I had never really done something like that, especially like for strangers.
People I didn't really know anything about or like I didn't know what their vibe was.
I could be daunting.
Yeah, it was while I was like anticipating it.
But once I was able to talk to the people and just like just take whatever information they
gave me and use my own experiences in life as a way to relate to it.
(25:33):
And you made a whole concept album off of it.
Yeah.
It was, it's still probably my favorite project that I've ever done.
I wrote some of my favorite personal songs and like I had a blast doing it.
And especially just seeing the way it touched other people, especially the people who I wrote
for.
It was very personal like now this person has their own song written for them, which is
(25:56):
really cool.
Yeah, they should have paid you way more than $10.
Yeah, to be honest.
And like sure, but it totally wasn't about that, you know.
And some people did pay me a lot more than $10.
Which was lovely.
And I wasn't expecting that.
Not everyone.
Oh, I mad.
I mad for you.
That's your bommager I mad.
Oh my gosh.
No, it was so not about that.
(26:17):
And it was more about like working out this muscle and like also honing in more on my production
and mixing skills and like challenging myself to write.
Yeah, because you do the mixing yourself, which is insane to me.
Yeah.
Like not only do you, lyrically come up with a song and the composite and all of this,
you're actually mixing it, you're finalizing it.
I don't like, there's so many levels and that's insane.
(26:40):
Thank you.
In a positive way.
I hope that if you ever have doubts with yourself that you look back at that moment and
you say, I made 33 songs for strangers during a global pandemic.
I can do anything and now I have to do it for mango.
There's no excuses.
Okay, here you go for mango.
Now, let's make the course.
Oh my gosh.
Malibu, bout an ex coconut.
(27:02):
Is it EDM vibes?
No.
I wasn't leaning one way or the other.
It sounded suggested.
You know the song, darling, darling by Halsey?
Yes.
Kind of thinking that.
Okay.
All right.
Give me some dark pop vibes.
Yeah, but like pretty guitar, like acoustic, stripped.
(27:23):
Totally had that wrong.
I don't know what I was thinking of.
Yeah, no.
Okay, totally stripped.
Yep.
Okay, there we are.
Now we've arrived.
Give me five to ten minutes and I will write.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We will be, but only after a few words from my mother.
Hi, everyone.
This is Linda Lefei and I've always got something to say.
The best topic is about paying attention to what's going on around you.
(27:47):
Take it in.
I love to watch people and imagine what their day looks like.
I think that means I'm interested in more than myself.
There's so many selfish people out there just thinking about me, me, me.
How can that make a person happy?
Just get up, wake up, look outside yourself.
There's so many people who need a little help.
(28:07):
A smile.
An odd.
Our time on this earth is pretty short and we were made to be kind to others.
So when you push me down the road and crawl up my tailgates because I'm in the left lane
going seven over the speed limit, how about you consider me, your angel keeping you out
of the next speed and ticket or worse, a wreck.
Or when you get irritated that the person in line in front of you at checkout is challenged
(28:31):
quickly swiping their items and to use their card to check out quickly.
Would you please just calm down?
Use that time to have your cleansing breath.
Take a big long inhale.
Hold it for a little bit and release it slowly.
Do it again.
And this time, say to yourself, I'm thankful I can breathe and not cough or need oxygen.
(28:53):
Be nice.
You're welcome.
That was my mother, don't you just lover?
And you know what?
We also love my father, so let's give him a second.
Adam is dead.
Times up.
Not in a literal second.
Wow, brevity.
Don't you love it?
As somebody quite long winded.
I think there's a message there for me.
But I don't have time to unpack it.
(29:14):
I gotta get back to the show.
Not before I say just a few things.
I don't do disclosures or trigger warnings or anything like that because real life conversations
don't permit that.
But if you are not in a place where you're ready to hear or discuss sobriety, then this
is probably not a topic for you.
However, you would be missing out on some really great conversation.
(29:38):
So I hope you stick around.
And the conversation is literally flowing for so long that it's going to spill over into
a second episode.
That's right.
Here's a little teaser.
Ari's not just on this week.
Ari is also on next week.
And I get a big ol' one-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop,
Falkhorn because this is actually part one of a two-part feature, our first ever.
So let's dive in.
(29:58):
Okay.
Cool.
I beg your Dolly pardon, you just like made up a whole thing right now.
I beg your Dolly pardon.
Nah.
You know I gotta be a little corny.
What in the world?
Are we recording?
Yeah.
Okay.
So we had Malibu as a title/Kokenutri.
So I wrote a verse in a chorus.
(30:19):
Look at you summarizing it real quick.
Dude.
I mean, what a great assignment holder you are.
I got you.
I got you, Professor.
I got you.
You did this.
I have to say, it's gonna sound like we just took no time at all and we didn't.
Like it literally like the moment that it took to do the ad break is how long it took for
you to write this.
Have chords.
The whole thing is so impressive.
It was like watching an Olympian.
(30:42):
I don't know.
People are about to be blasted.
Oh my god.
I haven't heard of you yet and I'm so ready.
I can't look at you though because I'm gonna cry.
Okay.
Go ahead.
I'm gonna kinda like make up a melody on the spot a little bit.
Literally no one's gonna know.
Okay.
Alright.
Let me see if I can balance this on my leg.
Would you say?
I said can I balance this on my leg?
There you, I don't know.
(31:03):
We'll find out.
If you all hear a crash it's a, I'm getting abused.
No, it's the guitar.
I'm just abusing my cat, you know.
This is not a big deal.
He's not a star yet.
You got a whip of a minishape.
That's not, we're joking.
That's bad.
Oh my god.
Thank you.
Here's Malibu.
I thought coconut trees could never take you from me until the day I stood alone now
(31:38):
on the beach.
I think about you and how you went with the breeze and hope you're somewhere being
who you meant to be.
Malibu and you and me, sixteen and I couldn't see.
(31:59):
I couldn't even find a night you leave.
Thought I looked you in the dark.
And see you driving in your car here you're speaking silent to me.
Don't you regret, get upset.
(32:20):
Don't forget me when you hear me playing on the radio.
Malibu and you and me, everything we couldn't be.
So we're falling in a mystery.
(32:42):
Are you kidding me?
I'm going to have to just do applause for the masses here because that was so, I need a
moment.
You're so talented.
It's insane.
Thank you.
I'm having hot flashes and it's not good.
It's not in this room.
That was so, first of all, sexy.
You killed that.
That was insane.
(33:03):
What?
For a cat.
I want to talk about.
He's going places.
He's going places.
This is really, we're really craft, we're seeing the beginning of a real career here.
Absolutely.
He telepathically communicated some of these words to me so I can't take all the credit.
Yeah, no, if you don't use that, like that is so good.
(33:24):
Thank you.
I mean your music's always good but that was, that was good.
Thank you man.
I am so into that.
I'm interested to see where it goes further from this but I like it with just the
guitar.
I liked it stripped down.
You had the right vibe for this.
I didn't think you were going to be anything but sincere with it because you understood the
assignment but like I'm so corny.
I thought it was going to, I don't know what I thought but you just succeed on my expectations.
(33:47):
I was just phenomenal.
This is a good segue and to pop start them and we've had some serious conversations on
the side about some of the challenges that you've been facing and you're in a good place
right now and I hope that you're recognizing that and feeling that.
Thank you.
You know, us seeing each other and we haven't seen each other in a while so I don't want you
to feel pressured to be anything other than your authentic self.
(34:09):
You're on a journey right now that can be arduous, can feel lonely and whenever possible
you need to fill up lifted because you are working through it.
Do you want to talk a little bit about what you had to go through to get to the place
that you're at right now?
Yeah.
I would love to.
First of all, thank you so much.
(34:31):
Doing stuff like this absolutely uplift me so I'm super grateful.
We'll have you back on.
Yeah, we would love to have you back on.
Super grateful you asked and that you're here.
This has been super fun.
I totally did not anticipate getting to write so this has been awesome.
Yay!
I didn't want to wear you out.
No, my god.
Not at all.
Okay, good.
Not at all.
(34:51):
Plus we're doing it for my son, my kitty.
My future pop star.
Look at him.
Oh my god.
But no, yeah, my journey in life has in general not been the easiest.
I have had a lot of love and support along the way and could not have done or achieved anything
(35:18):
in my life without that love and support.
So big shout out to my family and all my friends and all the friends I've made along the
way.
Yeah, that is important to have a community around you and those moments.
It's so important.
Cause we're specifically talking today about sobriety.
Yes.
I've especially learned through sobriety that you really can't do anything alone.
(35:42):
You just can't.
That doesn't mean don't give yourself credit where credit's a due of course, but yeah,
make sure you keep that part.
It takes a village.
For me, when I do feel like I'm doing things alone, I also have faith in my own concept of
a higher power that I feel is a guiding light for me through a lot of this.
(36:08):
There's a little like backstory.
So I'm transgender.
I have known my identity as a man, as a boy for the entirety of my life since I was, since
I could stand up on my own two feet and open my mouth.
It's just, I just knew who I was and unfortunately, you know, I didn't have the language to really
(36:38):
express that to other people or even understand it myself.
You know, feeling like I was born in the wrong body and, you know, like imprisoned in myself
and that I would have a really miserable life of just being hidden and anchored down to
(37:07):
a body and a person that wasn't who I knew I was.
That was really scary and a lot to carry as a child, which led me to seeking relief and
the easiest way for me to do that was to get into drinking and doing drugs.
(37:34):
How early did that start?
So I had, I started smoking cigarettes when I was 11.
11?
I had mine.
I was born from North Carolina.
From New York City, everything was very much available to me at all times.
Yeah, because you grew up in the city proper, right?
Yeah, yeah, up a re-side Manhattan, like Yorkville area.
(37:57):
Up a re-side, up a re-side, alright, not in that part.
Yeah, okay.
I have to like, like clarify that with people, it's like I didn't grow up and fucking
fifth after you, but I knew a lot of people that did.
We were walking to the flagship Ralph Lauren store every day.
But now so, you know, I started smoking cigarettes 11, smoking weeded around 12 or 13 and drinking
(38:22):
around the same time.
I got like proper drunk in eighth grade at like a house party with beer that I had stolen
from a grocery store.
There was a grocery store across the street from my middle school that I would go to every
day.
And just stuff my bag with bottles of whatever I could get my hands on and then go drink
with my friends.
(38:43):
It was ridiculous.
And I got away with that soon.
So that's fun.
But city kids, what do you got?
I got like, definitely got alcohol poisoning and was just doing, cook that night.
Also I had my first kiss with a girl that night, which, cute, which was like not what I expected
(39:05):
and nobody at the time knew that I liked girls.
That was just so scared of people knowing the truth about me.
You were hidden on a lot of levels here.
Yes.
Sexuality and gender identity.
I just didn't talk about those things.
I didn't know gender identity was a fucking thing.
It really wasn't a known thing in society.
(39:27):
I mean, where did we have examples for that?
Yeah.
That was never talked about.
Exactly.
So this is like 2009, 2010.
I eventually got to a point where I felt like I just had to say something.
So I came out as a lesbian at first.
And that was kind of relieving and everyone around me was like, well, duh.
(39:52):
You know, actually the first person I told was my mom and we were in the middle of fighting
about me slacking in school.
I just did not do the work and had no attention span and no like room inside of my head to
even fathom trying to squeeze math and fucking push it in there.
(40:15):
I mean, first of all, school stuff.
Yes.
So I hear you.
But also on the other molecular levels that you had going on, how would you have time to
learn new things?
You don't even have a foundation for yourself or the verbiage for it.
Yes.
Exactly.
Exactly.
No one understood why because I wasn't communicating why and I had no idea how to.
But how would we know?
Right.
So I was in the middle of a fight with my mom in her bedroom and she was like, you know,
(40:39):
home or come or come or come or come or yelling at me.
And I was like, man.
She was like, what?
I was like, what a great impression of your mother.
She totally doesn't sound like that.
No, not at all.
But I literally just blurted out.
I'm gay.
And she was like, you don't think I fucking know that.
Do you fucking homework?
She was like, oh, she didn't care at all.
(41:00):
I went straight to my room and I had my little like stash of alcohol in my cupboard.
I had like smirin' off ice and Mike's hard lemonade where my go to is delicious.
But I like took all the bottles out and I sat on the floor and I was like, oh my god, you
did it, dude.
Like, that wasn't so bad.
And so I like drank like smoked some weed and smoked a cigarette out my window, which
(41:20):
was like my nightly ritual and fucking eighth grade.
So I slowly started telling my friends that I like girls and that kind of evolved into
a two part coming out thing, which was I liked girls, but I want to be a boy.
When did that start happening?
Very shortly after.
Like this is like summer going into night grade, which is when I eventually officially came
(41:42):
out as trans without using that word, because I still didn't know.
I told my dad, my dad had a hunch that I wasn't telling the whole story when I just came
out as like in girls.
He was sniffing around, doesn't it?
Yeah, he was like, I feel like you're not saying something.
(42:04):
And I was like, yeah, like you're right.
Let me try to explain this to you.
I haven't just worn boys clothes my whole life because they're more comfortable.
You know, like this is how I want to express myself.
It's how I feel on the inside.
I've felt like a boy in my whole life, but I feel like it's wrong because it doesn't make
sense.
It's crazy.
(42:24):
Like, who is born into a body and then feels like they're the opposite gender?
Like, how does that happen?
And I don't know what's wrong with me, you know, and all that shit.
And my dad was just so heartbroken for me and immediately supportive.
And came out to my mom, she did not understand.
(42:48):
It took me a little while to really get through to her that this was a real thing, not me
reacting to the divorce, not me like wanting to be more masculine.
It was like, no, I am a boy.
Yeah, I'm not butch mom, I'm a man.
No, she literally was like, I don't understand why you can't just be butch.
(43:09):
And I laugh at that now because, oh my god.
Yeah, you have a good relationship, thankfully.
Yes, I have a very close and loving relationship with both of my parents.
My parents did a little research found out that there was this thing at the time called
gender identity disorder.
They took me to a specialist.
I got diagnosed with an extreme case of gender identity disorder, which is now no longer
(43:32):
in the same.
What is that?
That means like you think you're in the wrong body and it's almost like there was no
quote unquote treatment for it other than to allow that person to transition to the
other gender.
So was it good?
Was it a good thing?
It was a good thing.
Okay.
Yes.
It was the way it's word, it sounds like it's like anti.
Right.
And it was perceived that way after more and more people began to come out and then officially
(43:55):
like removed from the DSM.
But at the time, you know, they gave me a label.
I was like, oh, I fit under something.
This is something that other people must experience since there's a name for it.
And I found out about the word transsexual transgender.
So it was affirming in that way.
So it was very affirming.
That's good.
I didn't feel like this lone mistake because I felt that way in my whole life that I shouldn't
(44:21):
be here.
That something went wrong.
Something was wrong with me.
And now I still felt that way to a degree, but I at least knew that I wasn't alone.
I went into high school, socially transitioning as a boy, which was very hard.
But I got very badly bullied in high school and constantly misgendered and, you know, things
(44:43):
that were for me at the time very, very hard because I, in a way, was alone throughout
a lot of my transition being the only trans person that I knew.
And I had to navigate what that meant to me without any real role models or any friends
that were going through the same experience, which, you know, led me even further down
(45:06):
the path of abusing alcohol and drugs.
I loved to party.
I loved to be the life of the party.
I loved to feel good and better as I did when I got drunk and I got high.
And so that immediately became my go-to coping mechanism for anything and everything I dealt
(45:26):
with, which, you know, I struggled with my mental health too.
I was diagnosed with depression and ADHD and anxiety, eventually bipolar too.
From a very young age and was on medication from a very young age, it really helped me a lot,
but it wasn't the end all be y'all.
But the weight of that, yeah, that's a lot at once.
(45:49):
Yeah, it was a lot at once and it was too much for a kid to handle.
And my original high school did not handle me with care or well.
They actually eventually expelled me because I was too much for them to handle.
And what was their excuse?
What was their excuse?
(46:09):
What was their excuse?
Their excuse was that I failed chemistry.
Who didn't fail chemistry?
Exactly.
Also, a trans person failing chemistry is so I rhyme.
I know, right?
Like you didn't fail chemistry, but no.
But yeah, that's what they said was the reason I know that that wasn't it.
I don't think they could handle the amount of emotional instability I brought with me to
(46:36):
school.
Of course, I was going to be unstable and all over the place.
That's kind of a little more high school.
Yeah, I was very suicidal.
I skipped class constantly.
I wasn't a good fit for that school anyway.
And I looked back and I'm grateful that it happened.
But it's sad that that happened.
(46:57):
Yeah, it doesn't diminish the pain of that.
Right.
Like they didn't allow me to use the boys restroom or the boys locker room or on board
the dance teams.
Oh, fuck them.
Yeah, it was really fucked up.
But it led me to finding my second high school, which was a professional children's school
on that.
(47:17):
What is a professional children's school?
So it was, it's a school that's been around for over a hundred years now, probably 110
years now, specifically designed for students that have like artistic or professional endeavors
that are like a charter school then.
I don't know much about a charter school.
I mean, I don't even know what I just said.
But it's like it's specific.
(47:37):
It's specific in the need.
Yeah, it's like it was a very special school.
So there were a lot of actors, young actors, young musicians, young dancers.
Oh, okay, it's giving Macauley Cawkin.
Yeah, I think he actually might have gone to my school like that reference paid off.
Any, any freaking celebrity you think of that's from New York went to my school like Scarlett
(47:59):
Johansson, Yo Yo Ma, Vanessa Carlson, Nicky Wins, like Nicky Wins.
No, I got Britney Spears.
All right.
A lot of amazing people came to that.
No wonder you're a pop star.
Oh my gosh, I was very, very excited to go there and to be at a place that would help
cultivate my creative life.
Whose ideal was that was that your moms, your dads, or yours?
(48:21):
It came through one of my mom's students.
So my mom is a singer, songwriter, and a vocal coach.
My dad's a record producer and songwriter.
Now an actor.
It's okay.
You can tell us that the car owners, it's okay.
It came from a very musical background.
So a lot of support around my music career, which just began from a very, very, very
(48:45):
young age.
I just started playing piano and guitar when I was like four and singing and writing songs
at 10 and playing shows at 10 and like, my parents just kind of like threw up their hands
and were like, let them do this thing.
Yeah.
Which was awesome and I appreciate them not getting involved either.
So it allowed me to really explore this on my own.
(49:07):
Yeah, they weren't like Mama, Drew.
No, no, not at all.
So I feel very proud that I've earned everything I have in my career on my own and through my
work ethic and my talent.
Nothing's been handed to me.
But yeah, my second high school was awesome.
The drinking, the drug, using progressed quite a bit.
(49:27):
I was a massive stoner in high school.
Like my first, I'd say real addiction was weed and then cigarettes and ambion, the sleeping
pill.
Because I was prescribed to that as a kid and I realized that if you stayed up long enough
on it, you would like trip and I loved it.
So those are my first like addictions.
(49:47):
Still love to drink, but I could like go a day without it.
But I started experimenting with more drugs like cocaine.
I was prescribed to Adderall.
Yeah, I was on a lot of stuff and having a lot of fun and partying did a lot better in my
last two years because I was just a lot happier.
Everybody at my school was very--
Because of the cocaine.
Yeah, of course.
Everybody at my school was very affirming and I had no issues with my transition there.
(50:16):
And when I started high school, when I started 11th grade at this new high school, so I started
T in 2012.
So I was like 15 going on 16 and then I got top surgery that summer, July 16th of 2012.
And then went into this new high school.
So you did all that right before the new high school though?
Yes.
Wow.
(50:37):
Yeah, it was a lot.
It was a lot.
That was a big summer.
It was.
It was.
It was a life changing and saving summer.
Yeah, I went to college at SUNY Purchase College, Westchester, New York, study music there.
There at Music Conservatory, I was in studio composition.
(50:57):
I fucking loved it.
You know, going into college, I really felt a sense of freedom.
Obviously everybody does when they enter college, but for me to really explore my identity in the
world even further.
I actually went into college stealth, meaning like I didn't come out to anybody or let anyone
(51:21):
know that I was trans.
I didn't want anyone to know.
I was still not very connected in a positive way to being trans.
It was still something that I felt I wanted to hide.
I just wanted to be quote unquote normal, and quote unquote normal boy, normal man, right?
(51:42):
And I'm very fortunate to pass.
I hate that word, but because you can't see me like if you saw me, you wouldn't assume I
was a trans person.
But when I got to purchase a lot of people who came to that school from the city knew who
I was or were friends of mine.
So going in, that kind of just became a thing that people started to find out about me.
(52:06):
I kind of had to tell people because on one hand, I didn't want people to think of me
any differently, but on the other hand, I was like, this is something I feel I need to
share.
It's just a big part of me and my life.
And maybe I can hopefully reshape people's perspectives on what a trans person is or should
(52:32):
be by just being authentically myself and being open to having very uncomfortable conversations
with people who ask a lot of very uncomfortable questions.
And I just don't fucking care.
I don't care.
It's no care.
I like the 180 and the power that that holds versus when you were going into college and
you were like, I'm going to separate myself from this identity.
(52:53):
I'm not going to talk about it.
I'm not going to have it present in my conversation.
So having the power from that, I like hearing that.
Yeah.
And I think college was a way for me to really explore what masculinity meant to me.
You know, doing all of these like stereotypical heteronormative masculine things.
(53:19):
Yeah.
And being a grad being a grad, you know, dating a lot of girls, shit like that.
I loved it.
It was fun.
I never got to do that.
I never got to just be a boy.
So I wanted to do all these things that you need.
Your inner child was probably thriving.
Yes.
And college.
Yes.
I also like grew up an athlete.
(53:39):
So I was really excited to get to play a sport in college.
And to be the leader of a chapter of a fraternity, which normally has such, you know, a
bad connotation.
It can.
Yeah.
And to prove to my very small liberal art school that not all fraternities or chapters have
(54:01):
to be shitty.
Right.
So was there no Greek life and you made this charter?
No.
Oh, God.
You were the one and only Greek organization on our campus.
And you like are the one that rostered that.
I mean, it started it.
It was me and a group of guys who can't take all the credit.
But I thought.
No, I think you should.
This is my podcast.
I put a lot of work into it.
(54:22):
My fraternity recognized my trans identity and they were very proud of me.
And I was awarded a couple scholarships through them, which was amazing.
From the charter itself, from the Greek life?
From my contribution to my chapter and to the fraternity.
Yeah, chapter.
I couldn't remember if it's chapter or charter.
No, you're good.
You get a charter to start your chapter.
(54:42):
That's what it is.
Yeah.
But it was amazing.
We also gave a space for other guys who felt really out of place on campus to make
friends and come into their own.
We hosted a lot of really big social events, a lot of parties and like did a lot of service
work, which I'm sure you loved.
Yeah, you loved the party.
Love the party.
So being in college and involved in that kind of lifestyle, my alcoholism really began
(55:06):
to take hold.
I also became very addicted to cocaine, like really, really badly.
To the point where when I was 20, I kind of realized I had a problem.
And decided to go to my first meeting.
Like I went to a cocaine anonymous meeting and started going to alcoholics anonymous meetings.
But I couldn't quite grasp the idea of sobriety.
(55:31):
What that meant.
What that would look like for me.
I could not fathom giving up alcohol.
I just thought, okay, now I've stopped doing this one drug.
That means I'm doing the damn thing right.
You cut a piece of the pie out and you're still indulging in the pie.
Exactly.
But we're ignoring that the pie is there.
(55:51):
Right.
I did not understand that sobriety meant abstinence completely.
Once I figured that out, I was like, no, I'll stop doing coke though, which I did for a
while.
By my senior year, I was starting to abuse my adderol, which I never had before.
I started doing cocaine again, drinking a lot by myself, drinking every day, taking
(56:16):
booze to class.
That's often where it sneaks up is when you're by yourself.
Yes.
I, from the time I was a kid, smoking weed and cigarettes out my window, I loved getting
high and drunk by myself.
Often when I would get drunk at parties, I would Irish exit and go like explore and do
fun things by myself.
(56:37):
I got to like, yes.
You could escape from it.
I could just feel the good feelings, feel other than how I normally felt, forget about everything
else, focus on fun things and creative things and adventurous things that I thought at the
(57:00):
time I could only truly access through substances.
It's not to say I didn't write and perform and make a lot of music without drinking and
drugs because I did, but as I got older and more mounting pressure of life began to like
get at me, I saw the comfort of my toxic best friend, which was alcohol.
(57:25):
Fast forward to the pandemic.
That is really when my alcoholism went like to a new level.
Yes.
So, let's not fast forward just yet though because that's a largely, I get the book end of
where that's headed, but in the interim though, you did the cocaine anonymous, you cut it
out for a while.
And then what does that look like for you in the, let's say, 10 years between the pandemic
(57:51):
and cutting out cocaine?
Like are you just drinking casually in your mind or?
Yeah.
When I drank, I drank a lot, drank very hard.
I was doing other drugs, like Adderall and Ambien again, a lot of Ambien and Conflict.
You're a pill bro.
Love pills.
Yeah.
But alcohol was like the main, that was my shit.
(58:11):
Everywhere I went, any activity I did, I had to have alcohol.
Because I was like, it just makes everything more fun and easy and I'm more confident and I'm
more this and I'm less mad.
Well, an alcohol is dangerous like that because it's so passing in society.
Yeah, it's like embedded into our culture.
You turn on a show they're drinking.
(58:33):
You go anywhere.
Wine Wednesday, Margarita Monday.
Crazy.
For a long time, people are not thinking there's a problem there, right?
Especially because I was in college, in a frat, on a sports team doing all the stereotypical
things that align with that lifestyle and I had nobody around me telling me they thought
(58:59):
I had a problem.
Because I was very high functioning.
I was like a straight A student, very involved on campus.
But yeah, the only person I really had in my ear being like, "Hey, you drank too much."
Was my therapist, of course, who I'd been seeing since I was 14.
He was the only other trans man I knew.
(59:20):
Oh, you had a trans therapist that's so helpful.
He was great.
But he was like, "I would encourage you to revisit AA and..."
How'd you try AA before?
Yeah, this was after I went to CA and AA.
So you did both simultaneously for a minute?
Yeah, for like a hot minute, like three months, two months.
But again, I wasn't actually sober.
(59:41):
Right.
I didn't start the steps.
My sponsor was a woman who tried to fuck me and found out I was trans and then ghosted
me.
So that was fun.
And then I stopped going to AA.
She really needed to sit through the steps.
I hope she's still sober.
Yeah.
Shout out Chris.
Anyway.
Not the Chris.
(01:00:02):
Not the Chris with a K.
Was it with a K?
Was with a K.
Oh, no.
I know.
And then the whole Hillary Trump election was going on and I found out that she was very
pro-Trump and conservative and I was like, "Yep, I'm really glad."
That math is mathing.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I do want to fast forward to the pandemic because life just didn't dare.
(01:00:25):
I needed to know how we got to here.
Yeah, I graduated from college.
I moved from New York City to Los Angeles in September of 2018.
I was like, "I just began my life out here in LA."
I drank a lot but it wasn't like I was like, you know, locked away in my room isolating
(01:00:45):
drinking every day.
I drank every day.
I got drunk every day.
But again, like no one would notice because I didn't.
I wasn't a messy, crazy chaotic drunk.
Yeah, it wasn't inhibiting you in any way from your functions or my job.
No, exactly.
It was just I thought something that I almost needed to function better.
(01:01:08):
Therein lies the problem.
I think this is the perfect place to pause and that is a cat reference, P-A-W-S.
I am going to note, next episode in part two, we are not going to have a game because it
is the finishing of this conversation right on through.
See you then or you won't see us.
But we'll talk to you then.
Thank you so much to my guests, Ari Zizzo.
(01:01:30):
Thank you for being back next week.
And thank you to the listeners.
Thanks out there.
Like and subscribe.
And Chris Capuchino.
You're on thin ice.
You haven't produced.
What's going on?
Yes, the record still reflects that Chris is not really a real person but in the context
of this.
Do you think the podcast just fell out of book?
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