January 24, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode of “Inside the Oval” presented by Dignity Health, Alex Chang spoke about his path to the 49ers, offered advice to people who want to get into sports marketing, discussed the importance of championing diversity in the industry and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Inside the Overle podcast presented by Dignity Health.
I'm Hailey Jones and I'm Patti Kwan, and today we
are joined by Chief Marketing Officer Alex Chang. Alex, thank
you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Finally, thank you for having me. I've been waiting for
this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
What does it mean?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And I'm sure it's a lot of things, but what
does it mean to be a forty nine ers chief
marketing Officer.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It means I have probably one of the most incredible jobs, honestly,
like in our industry. It means I get to work
with an amazing group of individuals, including you guys, every
day and we collectively get to be the stewards of
this amazing brand that so many people really value and
(00:53):
love and consider an integral part of their life.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You went to Emory University studying biology. You got your
master's in public health policy and management, and you've mentioned
it to us before that you were on track doing
pre med. You thought you wanted to be a doctor.
At what point did you realize that wasn't what she
wanted to do anymore? Because that's a lot of curriculum, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So The one slight correction is my parents thought I
should be a doctor, right. I was just following a
path that had been kind of predetermined for me. So,
like a lot of Asian American families, my dad came
over from Taiwan. He's a doctor, and expectation is you're
going to be a doctor too, and there's not really
not much discussion about it.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Is really funny.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Actually has conversations with my daughter yes thy eight years old.
It has a whole conversation with her on the ride
home soccer yesterday and she asked me the same question
you just asked me, is hey, like when did you
know you didn't want to do that? And I told
her it was when I was already in college and
already two to three years into being pre med. She
asked me this really great question, was like why didn't
you say something sooner?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And I think it goes back to wanting to, you know,
kind of please your parents and kind of wanted to
do what's expected of you. And also, honestly, part of
it is on yourself because not knowing what you want
to do either, because you really hadn't figured out that
point in life, well haven't figured it out that I
think for me. I think when I was, you know,
junior senior year, I really said, okay, like, this is
(02:17):
not the path I want to go down. I'm not
excited by it. It doesn't feel like a future that
I really want. There are even some really tactical things
that sounds silly.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It grossed me out.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Like everything we did in biology, like all the dissections
and stuff, they grossed me out.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I couldn't do them.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I would literally sit there and be like, Okay, my
partner has to do all the dirty work. I'm just
gonna sit here and take some notes. Like it grows
me out. So it just wasn't for me. So I
realized that in college towards the end, had the hard
conversation with the parents, said, look, this isn't for me.
But the easiest pivot that I found was to go
to health policy management, which is really the business side
of healthcare.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
So that's what I did.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I made that pivot kind of towards the end of
undergrad and went straight into grad school. So I graduated
like in April, and then in May started in grad
school to get my master's and to finish that in
the following December, it's like a year and a half.
But it's one of those things where like, yeah, I
honestly I just kind of went along with the plan
for probably longer than I needed to. But I'm glad
I realized, at least partially, like this wasn't.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
The right path for me then.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But it was really many years later when I realized
what my real path was, which is being in sports
market That took another ten years of kind of being
out in the workforce and trying different things where I
figured that out. So, you know, to me, the big
lesson there is like you don't always have to know
the future. I think you have to kind of figure
it out as you go. But also the lesson is
to like really set your own path right, and if
you feel like you're going down a path it isn't right,
(03:33):
you owe it to yourself or to maybe other people
have expectations of you, to like voice that right and
to make a change, because if you don't, then you
may waste a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
When was your realization that you were passionate about sports marketing?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, So where I worked the longest after I graduate
was in an American Express. I was there about twelve years,
When I started there, I was at this it was
really in the dawn of the Internet, literally nineteen ninety nine,
two thousand, the Internet is literally being invented. And I
did a bunch of different roles there. I did stuff
in what was back then called interactive marketing, so this
(04:06):
is kind of what we considered like digital today. I
did stuff in more traditional product sales. One of my
last jobs there, had six jobs over twelve thirteen years there,
but my last job there was working in sports marketing,
managing their sponsorships. So I was managing their deals with
the NBA, with the US Open in tennis, with the
USGA and PGA Tour of America and golf. And I'd
(04:28):
never really been a space before. I knew the brand
really well. I've done product marketing for quite a bit.
I done a lot of advertising campaigns, creative development. But
AMAS is one of these companies that really encourages people
to try different things.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And so a role opened up in the space.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And I was interested in it. But I was fully TRANSPARENCD.
I've never done this before, and they're okay with that.
They said, look, you've shown enough leadership, ability and enough
passion understanding of our brand, we think this could be
a good opportunity for you, And literally within the first
few weeks I fell in love with it. I knew
it was kind of my calling because it kind of
married everything that I really enjoyed about work. Right it
(05:02):
allowed me to still be truly in marketing, and I
love the aspect of marketing because it allows you to
really marry kind of art and science, and I do
like both. I'm very kind of left brain, right brain,
and so I like the balance of both. But then
you intersect that with sports, which I had a lot
of passion for as a fan. But then when we
start working in it, you realize how really, really interesting
the industry is. I always tell people, look like, I
(05:25):
think you have to be a fan to work in sports,
but it can't be your only qualification, right, Like, you
have to actually have to love the industry and really
get excited by it.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And I really did like right away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I really like this idea of the role of sports
and culture, the role plays in people's lives. I like
the entire kind of ecosystem of sports and kind of
like following things like the money flow between teams and
leagues and unions and media networks and sponsors, like that
whole aspect of it was really interesting to me and
figure out how you can play a role in that
depending on which side of the table will you sit on.
(05:54):
So really it was within that role that I fell
in love with it and I knew right away.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Like that was my path.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You have experienceience working for agencies and big brands, and
you mentioned it before, like the interests of like the
sports industry and the kind of the workings behind it.
How did those industries you know, in the agency world
and the brand side of things, like how are they
similar to professional sports? And how are they different?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, I mean I will say this, like, you know,
every part of the sports ecosystem is a little bit different,
and there's some interlinkages there, and there's no better or worse.
I think the one thing they all share in common
obviously is like we're all working towards the same thing, right,
is really to like continue to keep people engaged in
something that they already love is professional sports, right and
(06:39):
really kind of feel that passion that people have for now,
how we do that is different?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Right. When you work at an agency, you're really helping.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Support your clients and their role in that space, right,
And so in my case, I worked for brand consulting mostly,
so I was helping brands like Microsoft and Verizon figure
out their strategy as released to sports.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So for Microsoft it was about their NFL deal, So
surface on the sidelines with you guys are very familiar
with for Verizons a BYuT NFL as well as well
as IndyCar and kind of what they do, and you're
trying to really help them figure out, Okay, your brand
sort of as a you're not a sports endemic, right,
You're a technology company or a wireless company, but you
want to have a role in this sport or in
(07:18):
this league, and so what can that be, What does
that look like, and what does it look like for
your fans, and how does that make sense. When you're
sitting on the h side, you know you're there to
help influence decisions, to help help provide advice and guidance,
but you're not making the call. It's your client's call
at the end of the day. Right on your brand side,
you are making the call, but you're also always just
adjacent to sport, right, unless you're a sports endemic, nless,
(07:39):
you're Nike, You're a gator Raade like every other brand,
essentially is adjacent to sport, and so you're constantly struggling
to kind of find a place at the table like
some you know, And so I think that's where I'm
having really good agencies and really good brand partners help
you because they help you find that place right and
we do that every day with our partners here. For example,
being team side for me has been really rewarding because
(08:00):
I think we have the closest relationship to the fan
of anyone else in the ecosystem. Right when you think
about like who does the end consumer in our case,
the fan care about the most. Who do they love
the most When it comes to what we do in sports,
it's typically going to be a team, right, Like we
are the brand that they're going to be most passionate about,
(08:23):
they're going to be happiest about when things go well,
they're going to be most upset about things aren't going well.
That they're going to represent on their clothing, on their body,
with tattoos on the flag in front of their house,
on the bumper sticker on their car, and so to me,
I think realizing that we're all part of creating that
connection is pretty special and it's powerful and it's a
lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Did working for a brand and on the agency side,
did that inform decisions or how you work with partners?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Now? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I think I have enough experience to have seen all
different types of relationships in our business. And reality is,
like the supports industry are really small, street is very
relationship driven, and I truly believe that, like how you
treat people matters, right, And I think it's not just
about doing something for someone because they're doing something for
you later. It's also by just doing the right thing
for people, right, And I think our industry by and
(09:14):
large does that, and it's something I think I've personally
benefited from and I've tried to do that for people
that interact with as well. But when you're kind of
ston on dimer size of the table, you see different
types of things. Right.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
When I was the agency side, there were.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Times where, yeah, we had difficult clients who like didn't
treat their agency partners, including us very well. They looked
at us like sort of the faceless, anonymous commodity. Right,
We're just an army of agency people who can do
things that we ask you to do, and so there
isn't a level of respect there that I think should
be there.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I've also been in situations where you know, you treat
agencies like they're an extension of your team, right, in
which they are.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
In most cases, brands rely on agencies, and they rely
on properties like us they've worked with for a reason.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You need agencies because you need resources and expertise to
help you get something done.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Right. You need partners like teams or leagues.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Or athletes because they give you access to an audience
or give you some brand sort of credibility in a
space that you don't naturally have. Right. And so if
you recognize that that it is a truly a symbiotic relationship,
then I think that should then.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Be reflected in how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
But it doesn't always because a lot of times people
take it to the simplest kind of common denominator, which is, well,
I'm paying you, therefore I can kind of behave this way.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
But I've always rejected that theory.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And I've tried to kind of take that notion whether
I'm on the buy side or the cell side of
the table.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
What do you think are characteristics of a good marketer?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I think you have to be naturally curious.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think when you think about kind of the marketing
industry and the dynamics of what drives it, it's changing
every day, right, And there's been massive seed chains obviously
because of things like the smartphone, social media influencers, just
the Internet in general.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I always tell this story and it ages me, but
I'm okay with it. Like so, like I said, I
started my career nine nine, two thousand. Back then, the
number one marketing channel for a company like American Express,
a massive global brand, the number one marketing channel by
far was direct mail. That was how they acquired customers,
that was how they drove loyalty and retention. Direct mail
was the number one marketing channel. It was the majority
of the budget, the majority of the staff, majority of
(11:26):
the effort, and the majority of the metrics. We're driven
through a channel that today, by and large is defunct. Okay,
And that was I say, only good long time ago now,
but that was that was less than twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Okay. I started my career at that point.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, if I had said, Okay, I'm going to become
a super hyper expert in direct mail, and that's going
to be make me the best market I can be
for ust in my life, my cur have been over
a long time ago, right, So I think you have
to have this natural curiosity to say, Okay, well, if
the world's changing around me, like, can I learn about that?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Can I understand it?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I want to continue to learn about it, even
if it's areas that I'm less familiar with. Right I
think about where we are today and what you guys
are experts in. You guys are digital and social natives,
right like you guys literally like grew up with this technology.
You grew up with these channels. You grew up with
the kind of this way of interacting that I personally didn't, right,
And so for me a lot, I spend a lot
of ti my time trying to learn it. But I'm
(12:15):
learning it a little bit secondhand because I didn't experience it,
right I'm now in obviously I've adopted it now, but
had a very different phase right right in my growth
and development. And I have to be comfortable with that,
Right So, I think curiosity is a really important one.
I think the ability to collaborate with others is really
important as well.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
No marketer can do it alone.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Right, Even like the most creative people, creative geniuses, people
have the best ideas, ultimately need people around them to
help shape ideas, to help bring them to life, how
to improve them. And so it doesn't matter the size
of the team. I've worked with marketing teams. There are
thousands of people. Our team is, you know, thirty some people.
It doesn't matter to size the team. Like you need
to be able to work together with others because no
one can do it alone and lines are blurred a
(12:58):
lot in marketing.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Right. I look at you guys, what you're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
For example, like hosting a podcast isn't something that you
guys probably thought you'd be doing when you first walked
into this building. It wasn't part of your job description, right,
But you understood the opportunity. You have the curiosity and
interest to try to do that, and the brave and
we're brave enough to try it. And now something you
guys are really thriving at, right, And that's really important.
So I think that's really important. And then I think, lastly,
(13:24):
you know, to be sessful a marketer, I think you
have to really have an appreciation for the relationship that
you have with the consumer right, and have a lot
of respect for the consumer. And you can't just look
at consumers as a transactional relationship, you know, as.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
A dollar sign.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I think I think about as a relationship and that
you exist in someone's life and you have play a
role in their life and like to and take that
seriously right, and have a lot of respect for it,
especially when you work in our space, right, Like, we
are something that people care deeply about. We mean a
lot to them. We're part of the people's identity. We're
part of their traditions or part of what they their community,
what they passed down to you know, their next generation
(14:01):
and their families. And so I think if you if
you really cherish that relationship and have a lot of
respect for it, I think it affects kind of how
you think about your job day to.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Day as a consumer. Yourself, I would say, you have
a really impressive shoe game. Where did that start?
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You know? Growing up?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So I grew up in North Carolina in a small town,
and when I was growing up it was like in
the like the eighties, essentially, we didn't really have a
lot of professional sports around me.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
The one thing we did have with the a SEC
basketball acy.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Basketball is massive, and so I grew up a big
UNC fan, and so I think seeing people like Michael
Jordan and James Worthy and those guys and really following
the NBA as the people went from college to the
NBA is kind of my first love in sports exposed
me to the sneaker game. So I think that was
part of it, is just saying because that's the dawn
of like when air Jordan's came out and like commerce
weapons like sneakers started becoming part of pop culture. I
(14:51):
think the second part of it, and this sounds weird,
is because I didn't have a lot of sneakers as
a kid, and so I think, you know, as a kid,
I would get like most people, I get like, you know,
like one pair sneakers, and once it was worn out
or you grew out of it, you get the second
pair of sneakers. I said, I wasn't sniffing Jordan's at
that point. I wasn't an option, you know for me,
Like my parents just didn't think that was a good
use of money. And so I think I was always
(15:14):
kind of you know, going through like things like Est
Bay catalogs and like looking at sneakers or watching you know,
NBA games and like admiring sneakers but never having them,
And once I was lucky enough to start to be
able to have some suppose when come to spend on it,
I just felt like that was an area that it
made me happy, and it still does. At some point,
I know I'm going to be at a point where like,
I'm probably too old we were in the sneakers that
I'm wearing, but I don't think I'm I'm not there yet,
(15:35):
at least mentally, I'm not there yet, so I continue
to invest in it. But yeah, thank you for noticing.
I think our team in general honestly has like a
pretty good sneaker game, and our company in general.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Upped our sneaker game as a marketing department.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think when you work for a pro sports team
and you see all the great stuff like our players
are wearing, you naturally feel like I got to step
up my game. It's not gonna be the like Balenciaga
sneaks or anything, but yeah, a nice pair of dunks
or you know, some Jays, definitely I can get away with.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
For sure. For sure.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I also honestly, like the fact that I think you're
seeing this across our industry. I didn't see this whey
first started in sports. I think you're seeing it, like
people start to accept that, like it's okay to wear
sneakers to work, right, it's okay to wear jeans and
a hoodie to work. Like you gotta be put together
and you want to make sure it's you know, it's neat.
But like end of the day, like we can dress
comfortably at work. It's not about suit and ties and
being super formal business at tire every day.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
And when I started, the industry was like that. It
was suit and tie every.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Day and super formal even if you were just gonna
be sitting in your office all day.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Starting your career with suit and tie every day really formal.
But also in New York, which is like notoriously small closets, how.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Did that work? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know, you you get efficient, you know, with combinations
and like bas you start with like base patterns first,
base colors, ties, shirts, socks, shoes, like just ge all
the basics first and you kind of build from there.
But yeah, it's not great, Like you know, you think
about like a hot, humid New York summer and packing
onto a subway like a sardine and literally what you'd
(17:06):
have to do, and a lot of people do this.
You have a change of clothes at work, and so
you literally have like an extra shirt, suit, a tie,
like you change at work because there's no point in
getting changed before because you're gonna be a mess. And
winter's the same thing. You know, in any big city
where you're out commuting, like literally in the streets a lot,
you wear the weather, right, So if it's wet out,
you're gonna be wet. If it's cold Jermany cold, if
(17:27):
it's hot, you're gonna be hot, and so you have
to adapt to it. I think we're much luckier here
in the Bay Area. It's pretty much awesome weather all
the time, so we're not really exposed to the elements
that much, and so you know, we can kind of.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Where we want to wear.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You've received a number of accolades from Adweek, Gold House, SBJ,
to name a few. Is there any that meant the
most to you or like really sunk in that you'd
made it?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yeah, Well, I don't know if I've made it. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
If I don't I don't know if if you ever
achieved that, but I was really honored with the gold
House Awards. People might be familiar with it, and so
Gold House organization that focuses on Asian Americans and they
have a Gold House a one hundred award which each
year honors the one hundred most influential Asian Americans. And
so I was lucky if we named that list. I
(18:14):
think it was a year before last. And there's some
really impressive, way more impressive than names on that list,
and so to be considered kind in that company, I
think was an honor for me. I think also honestly
representing Asian American community in our industry has always been
an honor for me. There aren't a lot of us,
and that's just the reality of it. This is a
non traditional space for Asian Americans to be in marketing
in general, but especially sports marketing specifically, Like pretty unusual
(18:36):
see Asian Americans in this space. And so for me,
I think to be able to hopefully be a leader
and a role model for my community in this space
and then to be recognized for like for an organization
like that was a pretty big honor.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, the theme of APEX this past year
was breaking the bamboo ceiling, which is like a term
a lot of us in the community are familiar with
as one of a handful of Asian America can see
level executives across the NFL, like, how did you kind
of break through that ceiling and what advice do you
have to anyone who's trying to also advance their career.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is
recognizing that it's there, but at the same time ignoring it.
I know that sounds weird, right, because I think the
reality is is, like we all recognize the dynamics that
are play in our society, both from a societal standpoint
kind of in the personal life as well as your
professional life. We know and we know the challenges and
bears that exist, and so you cannot pretend those aren't there.
(19:31):
I think pretending they're not there isn't a realistic kind
of scenary to be in. So but once you realize
they're there, then you have to like really work your
butt off to combat it, right and to somewhat say
like that that isn't something that's going to hold me back,
like I'm going to succeed in spite of that, almost
use it as a challenge in some ways, a little
bit of a chip on the shoulder if you have
(19:53):
to and power through it. Now that it's uncomfortable at times,
right because you know that it's a challenge.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
You know that it's you. Niue is different.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
People aren't expecting that necessarily, But for me, I've always
kind of warned that as a badge of honor, frankly,
and I've took it as honor as a challenge, and
I really, like, honestly like thought about it to say, like,
I want to set.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
An example for other people too, right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Because I think that's what I think inspires people to say,
Like if I see other people around me who are
doing this, and like, it gives me the feeling that
I can do that as well. And so that's always
been something that's really important to me.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
You also serve as exec sponsor of our Latino Employee
Resource Group lead. As someone who's not in that community,
why was it important for you to get involved?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I think it's important.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And you know, so we have sofal rgs here, which
I'm really proud of for a lot of different communities
and frankly, for the.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Our latinx RG.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We didn't have someone at a senior level who was
part of that community, right and obviously that right away
says like that's a gap that we obviously need to
address and fill. Despite that, I think what they ultimately
need was not just someone from their community, but als
someone understood the needs of an ERG right and like
why they exist where they need support, what kind of
(21:08):
advice and GUIDs do they need, and what kind of
advocacy do they need? And that's something that I wanted
to provide, regardless of whether I was a part of
their community or.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Not as a husband, father, cmo ERG, exec sponsor. How
do you find any sort of like work life balance.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm tired a lot, you know. I always tell people this,
and it's true. I think I have three kids now
as I have fourteen eleven and eight, two boys and
a little girl, and I would say that my energy
levels since I've had my first kid has never been
as high as it was before. Like it just my
max you know, like fuel in the tank is not
like eighty percent of high as iking goes. I almos
a little bit tired, but I'm okay, I can function
with that. I think it's about making concerted effort to
(21:52):
make sure they're is balanced in your life and putting
yourself in situations where you can have that balance. Meaning
if we were if I was in a where it
required me to work one hundred hours a week around
twenty four seven three sixty five, that would not allow
me to have balance on other parts of my life.
That isn't a role that I would do right, Like,
I want to be in a situation where from a
professional standpoint, I have the ability to have balance on
(22:14):
their personal life and in my personal life. I make
sure I don't overcommit to where it can impact my
professional life either. I make sure there's balance on both sides.
So I think that's part of it. Having an incredible
partner and a support system in place is a big
part of it as well. So my wife, Manica is
amazing and she helps a lot, and I help her
as well. I support her professional career as well. She's
really busy as well, and so we try to support
each other wherever we can to make sure that we're
(22:36):
able to do it weing to do at home and
in the workplace. So I think that's a big part
of it. I think having kids who appreciate what I
do helps. My kids love sports. They love this organization.
They love coming to the stadium and you guys have
seen them a ton of times and they like being here.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that helps a lot too.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know when I tell them, Hey, I got to
get to the stadium like six hours before we kick off,
and they're like, great, can we perfect? Like that works
for me. So and being a place with a workplace
where that's okay, Like that's not an odd thing to
have your family here six hours before a game, like
people are cool with it. So I think being the
right situations and knowing that that that's a priority and making.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It that way.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But I will tell you this, look early on in
my career, like it was us of a priority. Like
early on in my career, talk about any experiences about
the grind is about you know, being able to pay
my rent or about being able to get that next promotion,
and that was the priority and work life wasn't really
the priorities that it needs to be. And that's okay too.
I think at every stage in your career, your priorities
can change and you have to recognize what they are
at that point and then adjust your situation so you
(23:38):
can best match those you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Six hours before a game, what does your game day
routine look like? I feel like I just kind of
see you in places all around the stadium.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's a lot of running around and just like checking
on people you know, and making sure everyone's good and
like people are set. The reality is someone asking this
before too. It's like at the end of the day,
like everything that we've done, the ration, the planning that's.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Gone on, that's the work.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
But by the time we get the game day, it's
execution time and you guys are out there doing your thing.
Everyone is going at that point right at that point,
if there's anything for me to actually do, then something
must have gone horribly wrong because at that point, like
it should be like okay, now we're just go, you know.
So I think there's a lot of that, just checking in,
make sure everyone's goods and when you need thing. There's
the kind of B to B side of it too,
to make sure we're hosting clients and whatnot that I'm
(24:23):
doing that as well, checking out our ownership groups and
our exec team, make sure those folks are good, and
a lot of it. Even now in my fifth season,
A lot of it is still observing and learning too
right and understanding that. I made a really concerted effort,
especially my first few seasons unless the COVID year we
did have fans here, but to really understand the fan
experience and kind of what they're you know, A big
part of our obviously delivery on game day is the
(24:44):
game day experience itself for the folks who are here
in the building. So I spent a lot of time
trying to understand that and kind of see what does
that look them feel like to them. I watch the
fans a lot to see how they're responding. I watch and
see where they are, say like, okay, like you know
where we're at kickoff? Are people still out in the concourse?
Are they in their seats now like and fired up?
You know who we're doing certain forms of entertainment. Are
(25:05):
they engaged with it? Are they or they are kind
of often doing their own thing. So a lot of
is that sort of observation as well. But I try
to typically buy you know, third quarter, maybe start of
the fourth, try to settle down at that point and
and you know, get with my kids, get with my family,
and like try to spend time with them and hopefully
kind of see us close out a game.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
What's been your favorite memory since joining the team.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have a few, So I think my first day
was a really important memory for me. I literally got
goosebumps kind of just driving up to the building for
the first time as a as an employee, I come
for interviews and stuff, but as an employee, I remember
getting my badge, you know, and just feeling really proud
to have that, And so that's one.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I think.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
That same season, being on the field and when the
MC championship game with the confetti following and Journey playing
was definitely a big memory for me, and just.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
I was overwhelmed the motion just it just it just
so joyous.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And I've never and I've had a lot of amazing
experiences in my career, but I've never felt that much
just pure joy, you know, in a work quote unquote
work context, like ever, Like, I've just never felt that high,
you know, at it from a work standpoint, and so
that was pretty pretty incredible. I think there was there
was no one moment, but I was honestly really proud
of the way our team kind.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Of handled twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
All up, it was a challenging year for everybody for
a multitude of reasons. And I think the way that
our team ultimately pulled together as a team and I
think really opened up to each other as a team,
and I think, you know, became much closer even though
we were physically a part for you know, a good
part of that year.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I was really proud of that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
There's just so many cool moments, honestly, and I think
that's something that I've always appreciated, is that this role
has enabled me and you and everybody just to like
experience some like really incredible moments.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And it's not just about's happening on the field.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Certainly, that's part of it, and winning has been great,
and we've had a really really awesome you know run
in the in the at least the five years I've
been here, and hopefully that continues on. It's not just
about that, though, I think It's really about kind of
the moments that we share together and the fun that
we can have and like the.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
The fact that we're lucky to be a part of
this organization.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Hopefully more fun memories to come very soon. We're heading
into our first home playoff game. What are you excited for.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I'm excited for the energy in the building, that buzz
that only playoff football can bring with the fans. You know,
once the red end zones get painted red and the
fans show up and we know, it's like, you know,
that first step towards the ultimate goal, it's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It's hard to describe that. And also just again, I
still have it now, Like I get that pride of
knowing that like we're part of bringing something.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
To people that they care so much about.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Right, that's all every marketer's ultimate goal, I think is
to have a genuine connection with a consumer. And we
have that in spades, and I don't take that for granted.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
What advice do you have to anyone who wants to
break into the sports industry.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I would say, you know, start wherever you can, Like
there's so many entry points in sports, and your first
job in sports won't be your last job in sports, right,
And so don't feel like I've got to find like
the exact perfect starting point, Like, just get started, because
once you get started, you'll start to find other opportunities
open up. The world will change around you, You'll make
more you'll develop more relationships. You'll start to have different
(28:35):
avenues come in front of you and so and then
you can fire out the next path is right. I've
used analogy a lot, so I know you guys have
heard this before, but I think about careers kind of
like those old school chooseral and adventure books where there
isn't one set path, right. Everyone's adventure is going to
be different. So as you get to each decision point,
each fork in the road, you have to decide what's
best for you at that point, Right, what do you
(28:57):
prioritize at that point.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
In your career?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And then you make a sion and based off of that,
and then a few years on you may even know
when that point's going to come. You have to make
another decision. You have to reassess then, and ultimately, through
a series of decisions, you'll end up where you end up.
But it's very hard at this first point to say
I know exactly how this is getting to the endpoint. Right,
You may still end up getting there, but how you
get there is going to change, and I think you
have to be okay with that, and be okay with
me being flexible making those decisions as you go, because
(29:21):
the role's going to change around you. Your priorities are
going to change, and all that affects that decision making.
I think if you go into it saying like there's
only one path and here's why I have to start,
and this is one hundred going to get me to
the end, I know every step along the way, I
think it's not realistic and you're probably gonna be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
I think you have to be a little bit more nimble.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
The question we ask on every episode every job posting
has the like other duties as assigned as the CMO. Here,
have you done anything that maybe you weren't expecting to
do when you've got here?
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Wow, that's a really good question. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I'll be honest with you, like there's nothing crazy, like hey,
I had to do this, like really like odd thing,
you know, because honestly, for me and even working in
like big brands working agencies, you kind of have to
do it all, you know. I've always said this, and
I think this exists in most fastest of sports. Generally,
most sports marketing teams aren't that big, okay, and that
really work for a team you work for a brand
or for an agency, like it's usually a pretty small
(30:14):
and normal team. So I think to be successful in
this type of role, no matter what your title is,
I think you have to have two things.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I think one, you have to have.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The ability to range up, so ability to hold yourself
in a room in a conversation with people who might
be a quote unquote above you in terms of like
level of seniority experience. So have that ability to range
up and be comfortable in that environment no matter what.
But also the humbleness and the willness to arrange quote
unquote down, meaning like do whatever it takes.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Like if you have to end up.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Being someone who's helping clean up a room, pick up garbage, like,
then just do that, you know, if you have to.
You know, remember when we launched the Member Inclusive member
program right for the concessions, we had to work concession
lines right and help direct people. There was a guy
wants maybe this is the example. Now when we first
launched that, it was for a preseason game. I remember
it was for a preseason game against Kansas City. It
was our first beta launch of this program. I was
(31:01):
walking through the concourse, like you only dudes, checking things out.
A guy comes up to me and he's trying to
find chicken fingers and he can't find them at the concessions,
sand right in front of them, and they didn't have them.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
They genuinely didn't have them.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So I spent the next fifteen minutes walking the concourse
with him finding him chicken fingers. And that's okay, Like
that's part of the delivery of like, I'm here representing
the brand, right, it doesn't matter the title or my
day to day cut unquote role. Like that's he's looking
for assistance. I'm here, I can assist, so I help.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's funny. We had Jeff Fong on and he was
saying that he's memorized the map because he likes walking
around on a game day and directing people.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Okay, that's now his thing, that is. Yeah, I was
thinking the exact same thing. I was gonna bring that
up that Jeff was like, I like my game day
is I like to go on the concourse and help
people out. I was like, I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think he's I mean, he could probably just moonlight then,
you know, right as a brand ambassador and get paid
for it.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
I mean I do think, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You know, we all wear we all wear business you know, suits,
on game day or whatnot.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Like we're kind of like dead ringers for someone who
can help.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Right between that and the credential, it's like we're basically
a beacon for whatever question you have, I can answer,
and I try to answer them as I can. But
I also know that, like when I need a phone
or friend, I will so this question I really don't know.
If someone asks the question about how to get to
some place I really don't know, I know very quickly
to look for someone like a playmaker and grab them
and have them answered the question.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
That's so good. Well, Alex, thank you so much for
joining the podcast.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it.
Welcome to the Inside the Overle podcast presented by Dignity Health.
I'm Hailey Jones and I'm Patti Kwan, and today we
are joined by Chief Marketing Officer Alex Chang. Alex, thank
you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Finally, thank you for having me. I've been waiting for
this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
What does it mean?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And I'm sure it's a lot of things, but what
does it mean to be a forty nine ers chief
marketing Officer.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It means I have probably one of the most incredible jobs, honestly,
like in our industry. It means I get to work
with an amazing group of individuals, including you guys, every
day and we collectively get to be the stewards of
this amazing brand that so many people really value and
(00:53):
love and consider an integral part of their life.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You went to Emory University studying biology. You got your
master's in public health policy and management, and you've mentioned
it to us before that you were on track doing
pre med. You thought you wanted to be a doctor.
At what point did you realize that wasn't what she
wanted to do anymore? Because that's a lot of curriculum, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So The one slight correction is my parents thought I
should be a doctor, right. I was just following a
path that had been kind of predetermined for me. So,
like a lot of Asian American families, my dad came
over from Taiwan. He's a doctor, and expectation is you're
going to be a doctor too, and there's not really
not much discussion about it.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Is really funny.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Actually has conversations with my daughter yes thy eight years old.
It has a whole conversation with her on the ride
home soccer yesterday and she asked me the same question
you just asked me, is hey, like when did you
know you didn't want to do that? And I told
her it was when I was already in college and
already two to three years into being pre med. She
asked me this really great question, was like why didn't
you say something sooner?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And I think it goes back to wanting to, you know,
kind of please your parents and kind of wanted to
do what's expected of you. And also, honestly, part of
it is on yourself because not knowing what you want
to do either, because you really hadn't figured out that
point in life, well haven't figured it out that I
think for me. I think when I was, you know,
junior senior year, I really said, okay, like, this is
(02:17):
not the path I want to go down. I'm not
excited by it. It doesn't feel like a future that
I really want. There are even some really tactical things
that sounds silly.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It grossed me out.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Like everything we did in biology, like all the dissections
and stuff, they grossed me out.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I couldn't do them.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I would literally sit there and be like, Okay, my
partner has to do all the dirty work. I'm just
gonna sit here and take some notes. Like it grows
me out. So it just wasn't for me. So I
realized that in college towards the end, had the hard
conversation with the parents, said, look, this isn't for me.
But the easiest pivot that I found was to go
to health policy management, which is really the business side
of healthcare.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
So that's what I did.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I made that pivot kind of towards the end of
undergrad and went straight into grad school. So I graduated
like in April, and then in May started in grad
school to get my master's and to finish that in
the following December, it's like a year and a half.
But it's one of those things where like, yeah, I
honestly I just kind of went along with the plan
for probably longer than I needed to. But I'm glad
I realized, at least partially, like this wasn't.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
The right path for me then.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But it was really many years later when I realized
what my real path was, which is being in sports
market That took another ten years of kind of being
out in the workforce and trying different things where I
figured that out. So, you know, to me, the big
lesson there is like you don't always have to know
the future. I think you have to kind of figure
it out as you go. But also the lesson is
to like really set your own path right, and if
you feel like you're going down a path it isn't right,
(03:33):
you owe it to yourself or to maybe other people
have expectations of you, to like voice that right and
to make a change, because if you don't, then you
may waste a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
When was your realization that you were passionate about sports marketing?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, So where I worked the longest after I graduate
was in an American Express. I was there about twelve years,
When I started there, I was at this it was
really in the dawn of the Internet, literally nineteen ninety nine,
two thousand, the Internet is literally being invented. And I
did a bunch of different roles there. I did stuff
in what was back then called interactive marketing, so this
(04:06):
is kind of what we considered like digital today. I
did stuff in more traditional product sales. One of my
last jobs there, had six jobs over twelve thirteen years there,
but my last job there was working in sports marketing,
managing their sponsorships. So I was managing their deals with
the NBA, with the US Open in tennis, with the
USGA and PGA Tour of America and golf. And I'd
(04:28):
never really been a space before. I knew the brand
really well. I've done product marketing for quite a bit.
I done a lot of advertising campaigns, creative development. But
AMAS is one of these companies that really encourages people
to try different things.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And so a role opened up in the space.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And I was interested in it. But I was fully TRANSPARENCD.
I've never done this before, and they're okay with that.
They said, look, you've shown enough leadership, ability and enough
passion understanding of our brand, we think this could be
a good opportunity for you, And literally within the first
few weeks I fell in love with it. I knew
it was kind of my calling because it kind of
married everything that I really enjoyed about work. Right it
(05:02):
allowed me to still be truly in marketing, and I
love the aspect of marketing because it allows you to
really marry kind of art and science, and I do
like both. I'm very kind of left brain, right brain,
and so I like the balance of both. But then
you intersect that with sports, which I had a lot
of passion for as a fan. But then when we
start working in it, you realize how really, really interesting
the industry is. I always tell people, look like, I
(05:25):
think you have to be a fan to work in sports,
but it can't be your only qualification, right, Like, you
have to actually have to love the industry and really
get excited by it.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And I really did like right away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I really like this idea of the role of sports
and culture, the role plays in people's lives. I like
the entire kind of ecosystem of sports and kind of
like following things like the money flow between teams and
leagues and unions and media networks and sponsors, like that
whole aspect of it was really interesting to me and
figure out how you can play a role in that
depending on which side of the table will you sit on.
(05:54):
So really it was within that role that I fell
in love with it and I knew right away.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Like that was my path.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You have experienceience working for agencies and big brands, and
you mentioned it before, like the interests of like the
sports industry and the kind of the workings behind it.
How did those industries you know, in the agency world
and the brand side of things, like how are they
similar to professional sports? And how are they different?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, I mean I will say this, like, you know,
every part of the sports ecosystem is a little bit different,
and there's some interlinkages there, and there's no better or worse.
I think the one thing they all share in common
obviously is like we're all working towards the same thing, right,
is really to like continue to keep people engaged in
something that they already love is professional sports, right and
(06:39):
really kind of feel that passion that people have for now,
how we do that is different?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Right. When you work at an agency, you're really helping.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Support your clients and their role in that space, right,
And so in my case, I worked for brand consulting mostly,
so I was helping brands like Microsoft and Verizon figure
out their strategy as released to sports.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So for Microsoft it was about their NFL deal, So
surface on the sidelines with you guys are very familiar
with for Verizons a BYuT NFL as well as well
as IndyCar and kind of what they do, and you're
trying to really help them figure out, Okay, your brand
sort of as a you're not a sports endemic, right,
You're a technology company or a wireless company, but you
want to have a role in this sport or in
(07:18):
this league, and so what can that be, What does
that look like, and what does it look like for
your fans, and how does that make sense. When you're
sitting on the h side, you know you're there to
help influence decisions, to help help provide advice and guidance,
but you're not making the call. It's your client's call
at the end of the day. Right on your brand side,
you are making the call, but you're also always just
adjacent to sport, right, unless you're a sports endemic, nless,
(07:39):
you're Nike, You're a gator Raade like every other brand,
essentially is adjacent to sport, and so you're constantly struggling
to kind of find a place at the table like
some you know, And so I think that's where I'm
having really good agencies and really good brand partners help
you because they help you find that place right and
we do that every day with our partners here. For example,
being team side for me has been really rewarding because
(08:00):
I think we have the closest relationship to the fan
of anyone else in the ecosystem. Right when you think
about like who does the end consumer in our case,
the fan care about the most. Who do they love
the most When it comes to what we do in sports,
it's typically going to be a team, right, Like we
are the brand that they're going to be most passionate about,
(08:23):
they're going to be happiest about when things go well,
they're going to be most upset about things aren't going well.
That they're going to represent on their clothing, on their body,
with tattoos on the flag in front of their house,
on the bumper sticker on their car, and so to me,
I think realizing that we're all part of creating that
connection is pretty special and it's powerful and it's a
lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Did working for a brand and on the agency side,
did that inform decisions or how you work with partners?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Now? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I think I have enough experience to have seen all
different types of relationships in our business. And reality is,
like the supports industry are really small, street is very
relationship driven, and I truly believe that, like how you
treat people matters, right, And I think it's not just
about doing something for someone because they're doing something for
you later. It's also by just doing the right thing
for people, right, And I think our industry by and
(09:14):
large does that, and it's something I think I've personally
benefited from and I've tried to do that for people
that interact with as well. But when you're kind of
ston on dimer size of the table, you see different
types of things. Right.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
When I was the agency side, there were.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Times where, yeah, we had difficult clients who like didn't
treat their agency partners, including us very well. They looked
at us like sort of the faceless, anonymous commodity. Right,
We're just an army of agency people who can do
things that we ask you to do, and so there
isn't a level of respect there that I think should
be there.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I've also been in situations where you know, you treat
agencies like they're an extension of your team, right, in
which they are.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
In most cases, brands rely on agencies, and they rely
on properties like us they've worked with for a reason.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You need agencies because you need resources and expertise to
help you get something done.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Right. You need partners like teams or leagues.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Or athletes because they give you access to an audience
or give you some brand sort of credibility in a
space that you don't naturally have. Right. And so if
you recognize that that it is a truly a symbiotic relationship,
then I think that should then.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Be reflected in how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
But it doesn't always because a lot of times people
take it to the simplest kind of common denominator, which is, well,
I'm paying you, therefore I can kind of behave this way.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
But I've always rejected that theory.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And I've tried to kind of take that notion whether
I'm on the buy side or the cell side of
the table.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
What do you think are characteristics of a good marketer?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I think you have to be naturally curious.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think when you think about kind of the marketing
industry and the dynamics of what drives it, it's changing
every day, right, And there's been massive seed chains obviously
because of things like the smartphone, social media influencers, just
the Internet in general.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I always tell this story and it ages me, but
I'm okay with it. Like so, like I said, I
started my career nine nine, two thousand. Back then, the
number one marketing channel for a company like American Express,
a massive global brand, the number one marketing channel by
far was direct mail. That was how they acquired customers,
that was how they drove loyalty and retention. Direct mail
was the number one marketing channel. It was the majority
of the budget, the majority of the staff, majority of
(11:26):
the effort, and the majority of the metrics. We're driven
through a channel that today, by and large is defunct. Okay,
And that was I say, only good long time ago now,
but that was that was less than twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Okay. I started my career at that point.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, if I had said, Okay, I'm going to become
a super hyper expert in direct mail, and that's going
to be make me the best market I can be
for ust in my life, my cur have been over
a long time ago, right, So I think you have
to have this natural curiosity to say, Okay, well, if
the world's changing around me, like, can I learn about that?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Can I understand it?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I want to continue to learn about it, even
if it's areas that I'm less familiar with. Right I
think about where we are today and what you guys
are experts in. You guys are digital and social natives,
right like you guys literally like grew up with this technology.
You grew up with these channels. You grew up with
the kind of this way of interacting that I personally didn't, right,
And so for me a lot, I spend a lot
of ti my time trying to learn it. But I'm
(12:15):
learning it a little bit secondhand because I didn't experience it,
right I'm now in obviously I've adopted it now, but
had a very different phase right right in my growth
and development. And I have to be comfortable with that,
Right So, I think curiosity is a really important one.
I think the ability to collaborate with others is really
important as well.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
No marketer can do it alone.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Right, Even like the most creative people, creative geniuses, people
have the best ideas, ultimately need people around them to
help shape ideas, to help bring them to life, how
to improve them. And so it doesn't matter the size
of the team. I've worked with marketing teams. There are
thousands of people. Our team is, you know, thirty some people.
It doesn't matter to size the team. Like you need
to be able to work together with others because no
one can do it alone and lines are blurred a
(12:58):
lot in marketing.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Right. I look at you guys, what you're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
For example, like hosting a podcast isn't something that you
guys probably thought you'd be doing when you first walked
into this building. It wasn't part of your job description, right,
But you understood the opportunity. You have the curiosity and
interest to try to do that, and the brave and
we're brave enough to try it. And now something you
guys are really thriving at, right, And that's really important.
So I think that's really important. And then I think, lastly,
(13:24):
you know, to be sessful a marketer, I think you
have to really have an appreciation for the relationship that
you have with the consumer right, and have a lot
of respect for the consumer. And you can't just look
at consumers as a transactional relationship, you know, as.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
A dollar sign.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I think I think about as a relationship and that
you exist in someone's life and you have play a
role in their life and like to and take that
seriously right, and have a lot of respect for it,
especially when you work in our space, right, Like, we
are something that people care deeply about. We mean a
lot to them. We're part of the people's identity. We're
part of their traditions or part of what they their community,
what they passed down to you know, their next generation
(14:01):
and their families. And so I think if you if
you really cherish that relationship and have a lot of
respect for it, I think it affects kind of how
you think about your job day to.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Day as a consumer. Yourself, I would say, you have
a really impressive shoe game. Where did that start?
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You know? Growing up?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So I grew up in North Carolina in a small town,
and when I was growing up it was like in
the like the eighties, essentially, we didn't really have a
lot of professional sports around me.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
The one thing we did have with the a SEC
basketball acy.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Basketball is massive, and so I grew up a big
UNC fan, and so I think seeing people like Michael
Jordan and James Worthy and those guys and really following
the NBA as the people went from college to the
NBA is kind of my first love in sports exposed
me to the sneaker game. So I think that was
part of it, is just saying because that's the dawn
of like when air Jordan's came out and like commerce
weapons like sneakers started becoming part of pop culture. I
(14:51):
think the second part of it, and this sounds weird,
is because I didn't have a lot of sneakers as
a kid, and so I think, you know, as a kid,
I would get like most people, I get like, you know,
like one pair sneakers, and once it was worn out
or you grew out of it, you get the second
pair of sneakers. I said, I wasn't sniffing Jordan's at
that point. I wasn't an option, you know for me,
Like my parents just didn't think that was a good
use of money. And so I think I was always
(15:14):
kind of you know, going through like things like Est
Bay catalogs and like looking at sneakers or watching you know,
NBA games and like admiring sneakers but never having them,
And once I was lucky enough to start to be
able to have some suppose when come to spend on it,
I just felt like that was an area that it
made me happy, and it still does. At some point,
I know I'm going to be at a point where like,
I'm probably too old we were in the sneakers that
I'm wearing, but I don't think I'm I'm not there yet,
(15:35):
at least mentally, I'm not there yet, so I continue
to invest in it. But yeah, thank you for noticing.
I think our team in general honestly has like a
pretty good sneaker game, and our company in general.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Upped our sneaker game as a marketing department.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I think when you work for a pro sports team
and you see all the great stuff like our players
are wearing, you naturally feel like I got to step
up my game. It's not gonna be the like Balenciaga
sneaks or anything, but yeah, a nice pair of dunks
or you know, some Jays, definitely I can get away with.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
For sure. For sure.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I also honestly, like the fact that I think you're
seeing this across our industry. I didn't see this whey
first started in sports. I think you're seeing it, like
people start to accept that, like it's okay to wear
sneakers to work, right, it's okay to wear jeans and
a hoodie to work. Like you gotta be put together
and you want to make sure it's you know, it's neat.
But like end of the day, like we can dress
comfortably at work. It's not about suit and ties and
being super formal business at tire every day.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
And when I started, the industry was like that. It
was suit and tie every.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Day and super formal even if you were just gonna
be sitting in your office all day.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Starting your career with suit and tie every day really formal.
But also in New York, which is like notoriously small closets, how.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Did that work? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know, you you get efficient, you know, with combinations
and like bas you start with like base patterns first,
base colors, ties, shirts, socks, shoes, like just ge all
the basics first and you kind of build from there.
But yeah, it's not great, Like you know, you think
about like a hot, humid New York summer and packing
onto a subway like a sardine and literally what you'd
(17:06):
have to do, and a lot of people do this.
You have a change of clothes at work, and so
you literally have like an extra shirt, suit, a tie,
like you change at work because there's no point in
getting changed before because you're gonna be a mess. And
winter's the same thing. You know, in any big city
where you're out commuting, like literally in the streets a lot,
you wear the weather, right, So if it's wet out,
you're gonna be wet. If it's cold Jermany cold, if
(17:27):
it's hot, you're gonna be hot, and so you have
to adapt to it. I think we're much luckier here
in the Bay Area. It's pretty much awesome weather all
the time, so we're not really exposed to the elements
that much, and so you know, we can kind of.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Where we want to wear.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You've received a number of accolades from Adweek, Gold House, SBJ,
to name a few. Is there any that meant the
most to you or like really sunk in that you'd
made it?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yeah, Well, I don't know if I've made it. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
If I don't I don't know if if you ever
achieved that, but I was really honored with the gold
House Awards. People might be familiar with it, and so
Gold House organization that focuses on Asian Americans and they
have a Gold House a one hundred award which each
year honors the one hundred most influential Asian Americans. And
so I was lucky if we named that list. I
(18:14):
think it was a year before last. And there's some
really impressive, way more impressive than names on that list,
and so to be considered kind in that company, I
think was an honor for me. I think also honestly
representing Asian American community in our industry has always been
an honor for me. There aren't a lot of us,
and that's just the reality of it. This is a
non traditional space for Asian Americans to be in marketing
in general, but especially sports marketing specifically, Like pretty unusual
(18:36):
see Asian Americans in this space. And so for me,
I think to be able to hopefully be a leader
and a role model for my community in this space
and then to be recognized for like for an organization
like that was a pretty big honor.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, the theme of APEX this past year
was breaking the bamboo ceiling, which is like a term
a lot of us in the community are familiar with
as one of a handful of Asian America can see
level executives across the NFL, like, how did you kind
of break through that ceiling and what advice do you
have to anyone who's trying to also advance their career.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is
recognizing that it's there, but at the same time ignoring it.
I know that sounds weird, right, because I think the
reality is is, like we all recognize the dynamics that
are play in our society, both from a societal standpoint
kind of in the personal life as well as your
professional life. We know and we know the challenges and
bears that exist, and so you cannot pretend those aren't there.
(19:31):
I think pretending they're not there isn't a realistic kind
of scenary to be in. So but once you realize
they're there, then you have to like really work your
butt off to combat it, right and to somewhat say
like that that isn't something that's going to hold me back,
like I'm going to succeed in spite of that, almost
use it as a challenge in some ways, a little
bit of a chip on the shoulder if you have
(19:53):
to and power through it. Now that it's uncomfortable at times,
right because you know that it's a challenge.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
You know that it's you. Niue is different.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
People aren't expecting that necessarily, But for me, I've always
kind of warned that as a badge of honor, frankly,
and I've took it as honor as a challenge, and
I really, like, honestly like thought about it to say, like,
I want to set.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
An example for other people too, right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Because I think that's what I think inspires people to say,
Like if I see other people around me who are
doing this, and like, it gives me the feeling that
I can do that as well. And so that's always
been something that's really important to me.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
You also serve as exec sponsor of our Latino Employee
Resource Group lead. As someone who's not in that community,
why was it important for you to get involved?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I think it's important.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And you know, so we have sofal rgs here, which
I'm really proud of for a lot of different communities
and frankly, for the.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Our latinx RG.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
We didn't have someone at a senior level who was
part of that community, right and obviously that right away
says like that's a gap that we obviously need to
address and fill. Despite that, I think what they ultimately
need was not just someone from their community, but als
someone understood the needs of an ERG right and like
why they exist where they need support, what kind of
(21:08):
advice and GUIDs do they need, and what kind of
advocacy do they need? And that's something that I wanted
to provide, regardless of whether I was a part of
their community or.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Not as a husband, father, cmo ERG, exec sponsor. How
do you find any sort of like work life balance.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm tired a lot, you know. I always tell people this,
and it's true. I think I have three kids now
as I have fourteen eleven and eight, two boys and
a little girl, and I would say that my energy
levels since I've had my first kid has never been
as high as it was before. Like it just my
max you know, like fuel in the tank is not
like eighty percent of high as iking goes. I almos
a little bit tired, but I'm okay, I can function
with that. I think it's about making concerted effort to
(21:52):
make sure they're is balanced in your life and putting
yourself in situations where you can have that balance. Meaning
if we were if I was in a where it
required me to work one hundred hours a week around
twenty four seven three sixty five, that would not allow
me to have balance on other parts of my life.
That isn't a role that I would do right, Like,
I want to be in a situation where from a
professional standpoint, I have the ability to have balance on
(22:14):
their personal life and in my personal life. I make
sure I don't overcommit to where it can impact my
professional life either. I make sure there's balance on both sides.
So I think that's part of it. Having an incredible
partner and a support system in place is a big
part of it as well. So my wife, Manica is
amazing and she helps a lot, and I help her
as well. I support her professional career as well. She's
really busy as well, and so we try to support
each other wherever we can to make sure that we're
(22:36):
able to do it weing to do at home and
in the workplace. So I think that's a big part
of it. I think having kids who appreciate what I
do helps. My kids love sports. They love this organization.
They love coming to the stadium and you guys have
seen them a ton of times and they like being here.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that helps a lot too.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know when I tell them, Hey, I got to
get to the stadium like six hours before we kick off,
and they're like, great, can we perfect? Like that works
for me. So and being a place with a workplace
where that's okay, Like that's not an odd thing to
have your family here six hours before a game, like
people are cool with it. So I think being the
right situations and knowing that that that's a priority and making.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It that way.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But I will tell you this, look early on in
my career, like it was us of a priority. Like
early on in my career, talk about any experiences about
the grind is about you know, being able to pay
my rent or about being able to get that next promotion,
and that was the priority and work life wasn't really
the priorities that it needs to be. And that's okay too.
I think at every stage in your career, your priorities
can change and you have to recognize what they are
at that point and then adjust your situation so you
(23:38):
can best match those you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Six hours before a game, what does your game day
routine look like? I feel like I just kind of
see you in places all around the stadium.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's a lot of running around and just like checking
on people you know, and making sure everyone's good and
like people are set. The reality is someone asking this
before too. It's like at the end of the day,
like everything that we've done, the ration, the planning that's.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Gone on, that's the work.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
But by the time we get the game day, it's
execution time and you guys are out there doing your thing.
Everyone is going at that point right at that point,
if there's anything for me to actually do, then something
must have gone horribly wrong because at that point, like
it should be like okay, now we're just go, you know.
So I think there's a lot of that, just checking in,
make sure everyone's goods and when you need thing. There's
the kind of B to B side of it too,
to make sure we're hosting clients and whatnot that I'm
(24:23):
doing that as well, checking out our ownership groups and
our exec team, make sure those folks are good, and
a lot of it. Even now in my fifth season,
A lot of it is still observing and learning too
right and understanding that. I made a really concerted effort,
especially my first few seasons unless the COVID year we
did have fans here, but to really understand the fan
experience and kind of what they're you know, A big
part of our obviously delivery on game day is the
(24:44):
game day experience itself for the folks who are here
in the building. So I spent a lot of time
trying to understand that and kind of see what does
that look them feel like to them. I watch the
fans a lot to see how they're responding. I watch and
see where they are, say like, okay, like you know
where we're at kickoff? Are people still out in the concourse?
Are they in their seats now like and fired up?
You know who we're doing certain forms of entertainment. Are
(25:05):
they engaged with it? Are they or they are kind
of often doing their own thing. So a lot of
is that sort of observation as well. But I try
to typically buy you know, third quarter, maybe start of
the fourth, try to settle down at that point and
and you know, get with my kids, get with my family,
and like try to spend time with them and hopefully
kind of see us close out a game.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
What's been your favorite memory since joining the team.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have a few, So I think my first day
was a really important memory for me. I literally got
goosebumps kind of just driving up to the building for
the first time as a as an employee, I come
for interviews and stuff, but as an employee, I remember
getting my badge, you know, and just feeling really proud
to have that, And so that's one.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I think.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
That same season, being on the field and when the
MC championship game with the confetti following and Journey playing
was definitely a big memory for me, and just.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
I was overwhelmed the motion just it just it just
so joyous.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And I've never and I've had a lot of amazing
experiences in my career, but I've never felt that much
just pure joy, you know, in a work quote unquote
work context, like ever, Like, I've just never felt that high,
you know, at it from a work standpoint, and so
that was pretty pretty incredible. I think there was there
was no one moment, but I was honestly really proud
of the way our team kind.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Of handled twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
All up, it was a challenging year for everybody for
a multitude of reasons. And I think the way that
our team ultimately pulled together as a team and I
think really opened up to each other as a team,
and I think, you know, became much closer even though
we were physically a part for you know, a good
part of that year.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I was really proud of that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
There's just so many cool moments, honestly, and I think
that's something that I've always appreciated, is that this role
has enabled me and you and everybody just to like
experience some like really incredible moments.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And it's not just about's happening on the field.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Certainly, that's part of it, and winning has been great,
and we've had a really really awesome you know run
in the in the at least the five years I've
been here, and hopefully that continues on. It's not just
about that, though, I think It's really about kind of
the moments that we share together and the fun that
we can have and like the.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
The fact that we're lucky to be a part of
this organization.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Hopefully more fun memories to come very soon. We're heading
into our first home playoff game. What are you excited for.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I'm excited for the energy in the building, that buzz
that only playoff football can bring with the fans. You know,
once the red end zones get painted red and the
fans show up and we know, it's like, you know,
that first step towards the ultimate goal, it's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It's hard to describe that. And also just again, I
still have it now, Like I get that pride of
knowing that like we're part of bringing something.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
To people that they care so much about.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Right, that's all every marketer's ultimate goal, I think is
to have a genuine connection with a consumer. And we
have that in spades, and I don't take that for granted.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
What advice do you have to anyone who wants to
break into the sports industry.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I would say, you know, start wherever you can, Like
there's so many entry points in sports, and your first
job in sports won't be your last job in sports, right,
And so don't feel like I've got to find like
the exact perfect starting point, Like, just get started, because
once you get started, you'll start to find other opportunities
open up. The world will change around you, You'll make
more you'll develop more relationships. You'll start to have different
(28:35):
avenues come in front of you and so and then
you can fire out the next path is right. I've
used analogy a lot, so I know you guys have
heard this before, but I think about careers kind of
like those old school chooseral and adventure books where there
isn't one set path, right. Everyone's adventure is going to
be different. So as you get to each decision point,
each fork in the road, you have to decide what's
best for you at that point, Right, what do you
(28:57):
prioritize at that point.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
In your career?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And then you make a sion and based off of that,
and then a few years on you may even know
when that point's going to come. You have to make
another decision. You have to reassess then, and ultimately, through
a series of decisions, you'll end up where you end up.
But it's very hard at this first point to say
I know exactly how this is getting to the endpoint. Right,
You may still end up getting there, but how you
get there is going to change, and I think you
have to be okay with that, and be okay with
me being flexible making those decisions as you go, because
(29:21):
the role's going to change around you. Your priorities are
going to change, and all that affects that decision making.
I think if you go into it saying like there's
only one path and here's why I have to start,
and this is one hundred going to get me to
the end, I know every step along the way, I
think it's not realistic and you're probably gonna be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
I think you have to be a little bit more nimble.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
The question we ask on every episode every job posting
has the like other duties as assigned as the CMO. Here,
have you done anything that maybe you weren't expecting to
do when you've got here?
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Wow, that's a really good question. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I'll be honest with you, like there's nothing crazy, like hey,
I had to do this, like really like odd thing,
you know, because honestly, for me and even working in
like big brands working agencies, you kind of have to
do it all, you know. I've always said this, and
I think this exists in most fastest of sports. Generally,
most sports marketing teams aren't that big, okay, and that
really work for a team you work for a brand
or for an agency, like it's usually a pretty small
(30:14):
and normal team. So I think to be successful in
this type of role, no matter what your title is,
I think you have to have two things.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I think one, you have to have.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The ability to range up, so ability to hold yourself
in a room in a conversation with people who might
be a quote unquote above you in terms of like
level of seniority experience. So have that ability to range
up and be comfortable in that environment no matter what.
But also the humbleness and the willness to arrange quote
unquote down, meaning like do whatever it takes.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Like if you have to end up.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Being someone who's helping clean up a room, pick up garbage, like,
then just do that, you know, if you have to.
You know, remember when we launched the Member Inclusive member
program right for the concessions, we had to work concession
lines right and help direct people. There was a guy
wants maybe this is the example. Now when we first
launched that, it was for a preseason game. I remember
it was for a preseason game against Kansas City. It
was our first beta launch of this program. I was
(31:01):
walking through the concourse, like you only dudes, checking things out.
A guy comes up to me and he's trying to
find chicken fingers and he can't find them at the concessions,
sand right in front of them, and they didn't have them.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
They genuinely didn't have them.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So I spent the next fifteen minutes walking the concourse
with him finding him chicken fingers. And that's okay, Like
that's part of the delivery of like, I'm here representing
the brand, right, it doesn't matter the title or my
day to day cut unquote role. Like that's he's looking
for assistance. I'm here, I can assist, so I help.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's funny. We had Jeff Fong on and he was
saying that he's memorized the map because he likes walking
around on a game day and directing people.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Okay, that's now his thing, that is. Yeah, I was
thinking the exact same thing. I was gonna bring that
up that Jeff was like, I like my game day
is I like to go on the concourse and help
people out. I was like, I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think he's I mean, he could probably just moonlight then,
you know, right as a brand ambassador and get paid
for it.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
I mean I do think, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You know, we all wear we all wear business you know, suits,
on game day or whatnot.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Like we're kind of like dead ringers for someone who
can help.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Right between that and the credential, it's like we're basically
a beacon for whatever question you have, I can answer,
and I try to answer them as I can. But
I also know that, like when I need a phone
or friend, I will so this question I really don't know.
If someone asks the question about how to get to
some place I really don't know, I know very quickly
to look for someone like a playmaker and grab them
and have them answered the question.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
That's so good. Well, Alex, thank you so much for
joining the podcast.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it.
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