May 28, 2025 • 30 mins
Tori McElhaney is joined by Will McFadden and Terrin Waack to break down what happened in the Atlanta Falcons' first OTA practice. Will and Tori detail exciting position group battles to look out for as well as what to expect moving forward. Terrin then joins to talk about her latest stats deep dive and what it could mean for Jalon Walker and James Pearce Jr. in their first year in the league.
0:00 - Introduction to OTAs
3:58 - Michael Penix Jr.'s performance
6:30 - Voluntary workouts roll call
10:35 - Position group battles
14:56 - Offensive standouts & recap
17:14 - Rookie pass rusher expectations
19:48 - First round "sackers" deep dive
23:15 - Setting expectations for Walker, Pearce
26:30 - First OTA practice for rookies
28:00 - Wrap up & Outro
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dirty Birds Football is back here in Flowery branch OTAs
Man OTA's They just started. We just saw, well, I
say we, you just saw the first practice. I had
to be inside doing some managerial work.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Don't act like you don't have a nice, lovely, lovely
big window.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I can say that I was looking out the window
pretty significantly, but I was not down on the sidelines
because of my schedule today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You were.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So this is actually a very important podcast for yours
truly as well for those listening and watching at home,
because I wasn't out there, so I don't know what
was happening.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're our audience. I am literally real time.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
This is real time learning for me, which I'm really
excited to get into. So we're gonna spend the next
ten fifteen minutes going over everything you saw at practice.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Now, remember, everybody, this is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
A voluntary OTA's mandatory mini camp doesn't start for another
week and a half, and so this is something that
we will be checking in every now and again.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
With the podcast only a couple of media availabilities, I
think per kind of phase. Yeah, right, so we had
one today, We'll have another one next week, and then
I don't know the rest of the schedule off the
top of my head, but we will keep you updated
from there.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We will literally be there from start to finish. So
let's dive in because I have a few questions that
I want to get to. Overall, I think that this
is a really important time for a lot of players
and coaches. It's a big part of install I know
last year talking to Zach Robinson, he was like, this
is where majority of the work that we need to do,
the brunch of the work we need to be putting
(01:36):
in this offense. It's all about what's happening in the
meeting rooms and inside your own brain. But this year
is a little bit different in that a lot of
these offensive players.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Are carryover from last year.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A lot of them know what they're doing, a lot
of them know exactly kind of what Zach Robinson is
implementing or has already implemented. And then you do have
some new faces on the defense Jeff Olbrick included. But
Jeff Olbrich has you know what, I want to make
this as simple of a defense as I possibly can
in terms of scheme. So I guess my question for
you is is like, as you are looking at this
(02:10):
ota period and the first time you're getting to see
these guys really out on the grass. What should the
goal for this Atlanta Falcons team be right now? And
what did Raheem Morris say earlier today about it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The overarching goal for any period before the regular season
starts is to stay healthy. So that is number one,
and you're going to hear that one hundred million times
between now and the start of the regular season. But
outside of that, I think it's kind of like two
different things. Right for the rookies, it's just getting acclimated
(02:43):
to the speed of an NFL practice. It's understanding where
to be, when to be there, how fast to move
from period to period, individual drills, team drills, all of
that right because they need every single rep to matter,
and time is very precious in kind of the current
landscape of the NFL. So that's kind of what this
is for the rookies. But I want to go back
because one of the most interesting things to me about
(03:05):
today's practice was, yes, this is a returning offense with
a lot of known starters, veterans in the case of
you know, Jake Matthews and Chris Lynstrom and now Drake Lennon.
You know, we can kind of say that, so there
are known commodities on this offense. However, I kind of
think that this is still a little bit of an
install period for Atlanta because of how singularly talented Michael
(03:29):
PENNOCKX Junior is in terms of where he can put
the ball on the field, which is to just say,
like anywhere. So I do think you're gonna see a
newer version of this offense than we saw last year
with Kirk Cousins running the show at this point in time.
So because of that, Yeah, there were some growing pains.
(03:49):
I think we saw it there on day one of
OTA's which is very important to stress.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
But well, that was gonna be my question. They're still
like shots, right, like, what did Michael Pennocks Junior look like?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
This is really the first time that you're getting to
see him with a helmet on throwing to his receivers
and honestly since last season the season ended, So how
did he look today?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
He looked a.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Little bumpy, to be honest, particularly in kind of the
eleven on eleven periods, and it's it's just tough to
tell if it was gloomy and muggy and rainy and
kind of he was an off day for.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Him, which it was. It was a gross outside, it
was it's really cold too.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Talked a lot about on the sidelines amongst the media
members who were ill prepared for this weather. But it
just looked a little bit sloppy, just the whole offense.
And that's what I'm kind of getting at is I
do think that this is still gonna be a little
bit of a learning process as you get going into
even the preseason, right, So that is, but then the
(04:49):
positive for Michael Pennox was particularly and take this with
a grain of salt, because again, it's OTA's they're throwing
against air.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, and you also don't really know exactly what they're
being asked to do, what they're specifically working on. I
always try to tell people that, especially during training camp.
It's like, yes, you're seeing kind of some of these big,
flashy plays, but you don't know what the defense is
trying to do.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
You don't know what they're installing. There's just a lot
of like unknowns in terms of what's being asked of
these players.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Only people that know it are the ones out there
on the field and in the coaching staff. But in
this particular example, None of that matters because it was
just the touch on some of his short throws. A
we talk about his arm strength and how we can
launch down the field. But last season, I think particularly
in training camp early on, I noticed that's a five
yard slant, man, you don't need to put it like
right between his eyeballs as fast as you can. Yeah,
(05:40):
And so today I just watched some of those slants,
some of those quick ins, those outs, much more touch
on the ball, kind of feathery, a lot better pace.
So that was a positive that I think actually matters
more than the sloppy nature of the play out there,
because that's just day one of OTA's.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Right and again gross outside. Yeah exact, I didn't want
to be out there. It just so happened that I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But no, I'm glad that you bring up Michael Pennocks,
and I'm glad that you kind of broke down how
he looked and maybe the reasons why.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
But also a little bit of like this is still
very early on.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
There's still a lot of questions that we have to
answer in regards to Michael Pennocks and where he's going.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
But something else that I really wanted to touch on
with you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Is you know, again, like I mentioned off the top,
this is voluntary OTAs. You don't have to be here.
Players don't have to be here if they don't want to.
But it's a really important time again in terms of
install So when you were looking out there at the
full gamut of what players were there, who was there,
who wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Kirk Cousins was not there, which Raheem Morris you know,
talked about in the press conference beforehand, said he hadn't
seen him in the building. But again, these are voluntary,
so he's been around, he hasn't been around. It kind
of is besides the point because again Michael Pennix Junior
is really the focus out there on the field, and.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like what we've said, this is going to be a
fluid situation until it's.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Not exactly and if he's the backup quarterback, everybody's comfortable
with that like it. So everything is just preceding the
way it has been forever. Right time is a flat circle.
What is anything anyway? Ryan Noozell out there continued to
practice with the team. You know, Dwayne Ledford has spoken twice,
the offensive line coach here in Atlanta about Ryan Neuzel
and how excited he is and kind of a connuity
(07:23):
that he brings and what he showed in his eight
starts last year. So even though nothing has been signed
on the dotted line, for all intents and purposes, the
plan is Nowsle is the guy at center there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, And I think with Noosle, it's interesting because you're right, like,
he's technically not under contract right right now, and he.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Signed a medical waiver I believe to practice.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
To practice, Okay, So that's what's interesting about this. And
it makes me think, and I have this is Tory talking.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
This is not the Falcons organization or front office or
anything like that, but it makes me think that it's
potentially the Falcons are potentially setting up a maybe longer
term deal with Ryan Noozle because it's taken so long.
Because if you were just going to sign him to
the one year tender that I think it's just north
of like three million dollars in one year, then you
would have already done it. It makes me kind of
(08:08):
think that they're opening the door a little bit that
they really believe in Ryan Noozle and they really think
that they could have something longer term with him, even
if they were to let say go and draft a
starting center next off season to have him as a backup.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
We've seen what he's been as.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
A backup, yea. And they're not afraid, as they've shown
and said, to add competition even where there is some.
So yeah, like, I don't think it precludes you from
adding at the position moving forward, and you know, we'll
we'll see where it goes from here. But again, it
seems as though Ryan Noozle is going to be the
starting center here in Atlanta in twenty twenty five, even
though it just is he's not on the roster.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Right, that's what we've been told. Weird, it's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
There's always one weird thing with an offensive lineman to
every single training camp, preseason, off season, you name it.
There's something weird with the offensive line that we got
to touch on.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I'm just glad I'm not like talking about the left
guard anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know they shifted one inside the center position to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So when it comes to guys who were out there
and who weren't, it's interesting because you do.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Get a lot of guys off of ir that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Are coming back slowly, but surely guys like Young Wayku,
guys like Brayln Trice, DeMarco Helms. What updates do you
have for the people listening and myself about.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Where these guys are.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, so Braylen Trice not out there practicing with the team,
kind of still in his recovery and rehabilitation phase after
tearing his acl last preseason unfortunately, and Rahee Morris says,
we'll see maybe by training camp he's back. They would
certainly like to get him back in the fold by then,
but you know, with a young player whose career is
(09:43):
fully ahead of him, you want to be cautious with
these types of things. So I wouldn't be surprised if
you know, we'll see how it all plays out. Young
Wayku is been kicking. We spoke to a matter of practice.
He says, he's kicking about two days a week now,
which is a good kind of place that he likes
to be at. It is consistent with his routine has been,
(10:04):
you know, over the years. So seems like he's any
good spot as he works back from the injury last year.
And then DeMarco Helms was back out there cool and
that's awesome. That's great to see. He also got injured
in that same game as Breyllan Trice. But I think
the Falcons kind of sneaky are high on at least
a role for him. I'm not saying he's all of
a sudden starting right across from Jesse Bates fully, but
(10:27):
I think they have a way to use him in mind,
and they are excited to see what that's going to
look like in this defense.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Let's talk about Young Wikhu a little bit, because I
know that this is going to be a topic of
conversation over the next months and as we get into
the regular season. Is like, the Falcons do have a
kicking competition on their hands. They brought in competition for
Young Wick who I know that you talk to him
a little bit after practice kind of what's his mentality
going like going into I guess this next period of
(10:55):
his career.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I mean he he said that he welcomed kind
of the compition. At this point in time, it's not
any different than it has been in years past. Typically
teams do go into training camp with two kickers on
the roster and there is some competition, and you know
then he kind of said all the right. Things of
even when you make the roster, you're competing against thirty
one other you know, kickers around the league and whoever
(11:18):
else may be available. So I think the biggest thing
for him was once he identified all right, this injury
is not getting any better. It is something that he
says he's dealt with before as a kicker. It is
just kind of the natural right.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Hip injury there.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, And what was interesting is I spoke to him
kind of earlier in the season, way before any of
this ever cropped up, just just kind of asking about
his workout and how he stays healthy and for the
long term, and really is about your core. It's your
core that keeps your hips tight and in place because
everything is stabilized much better. So I think all of
(11:54):
that once it just kind of started getting a little
bit out of whack, it broke down from there, right,
and there wasn't a way that they could get it
healthier without taking a step back. So that's when they
went on ir and all of that. And unfortunately Falcons
didn't make the playoffs, so season ended and then he
went into his off season. But I think he's looking
(12:15):
forward to a competition. I think most importantly, like he
has focused on his regimen, his routine. Who is a
very structured guy. He doesn't like to deviate from his
habit as most great kickers are. You know, kickers are
like golfers, their creatures of habit and routine. Yeah, so
it sounds like he is right back in his and
looking forward to proving it once again in training camp.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I know that's one of the competitions I'm looking at
most closely. But another competition that I'm really curious to
see how this goes is at Nickel. And you know,
I think that it's no secret that between d Alford,
Clark Phillips and now Billy Bowman Junior, there is kind
of this wide open competition, at least in my head
(12:58):
about what the starting Nickel package could look like. And
I know that I one of the questions that I
keyed you up on is, hey, who's someone who stood
out in this one singular practice that we're talking about
what's one person or one position group?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
And you actually brought up Billy Bowman Junior. Can you
explain why?
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean I think that you could kind of see
from both of the Falcons rookie safeties Xavier Wats and
Billy Bowman, like there is a real legitimate field speed
to them. I think there's instincts that allow them to
play a lot faster than maybe they're the numbers during
the draft process might suggest, right, because that's what we
all get caught up on. It's like is it a
four four seven or is it a four five three?
(13:42):
And if one then we can't draft and the other
he's a first rounder. It's like how quickly can they
diagnose things out on the field. And that was something
where seeing Billy Bowman, who's playing close to the line
of scrimmage, that's got to be a quality that you have.
You have to see things quickly and more importantly, react
as soon as you recognize what has hapen happening. And
then Xavier Watts on the back end, I thought kind
(14:02):
of demonstrated the same qualities as soon as the ball
was out of quarterbacks saying boom, he was breaking and going.
So really it's it's that Nickel combo with the safety
because I think the Falcons have the personality lump Kevin
King in there. You know Billy Bowmen for sure, but
d Alford Clark Phillips, like there are some bodies that
are very different. If you want to go big nickel,
(14:24):
you maybe put it Kevin King in there. If you
want to go you know, a little smaller but quicker,
that's maybe Billy Bowman, that's the Alford. Like, there are
a lot of options that the Falcons do have, and
again that feels like it's across the board on this defense.
You look at the defensive line options, you look at
edge rusher options, you look at nickel options, safety options,
(14:45):
like there's there is a lot of versatility to this
defense and malleability for how the coaching staff wants to
ultimately deplay it and deploy it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So when you are looking at and you know, we
talk defense, let's switch over offense. Who stood out offensively
for you that you were really one either excited to
see out there today or somebody who caught.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Your ef It was really solid for the offensive line.
That's kind of a bad answer, but again, it wasn't
like the greatest day for the offense. I thought Bijon
did have a nice, really good run, long run down
the left sideline that was notable. Showcased his speed, so everybody.
Tyler al Jear showcased his vision too, as well, Tiegan Quittoriano,
(15:24):
the new tight end that they brought in as a
free agent. He was somebody who really was not on
my radar going into today, but I just kind of
noticed in a little like Charlie Warner light role John
Fitzpatrick last year as well, more of a run blocker,
but did great in that role. And I thought the
offensive line was the of the offense overall, was like
(15:46):
the most impressive part. Yeah, and kind of the one
part that took it to the defense. So overall, it
was a good day for Atlanta's defense, I would.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Say, nice. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I'm very fascinated to see kind of how this progresses.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
And it's like, okay, defense in the day to day,
but they always start, always right, and.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Then it's like what happens when you really get the
pads on, what happens when you're really going faster?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And none of the rookies with the first team, you
know I should mention. So again, it wasn't like, oh,
now you've inserted these four rookies into the lineup and
the defense has gone far and away better. No, it
was still you know, you have Leonard float out there on,
Katie was out there, You're like you had your kind
of veteran guys that you know and love out there
on the defense.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Well, there's so many more practices ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
This is the first of very many, you guys, like
whether it's the spring and or summer or training camp
when we get into it. But Will thank you so
much for sitting down and talking to me and catching
me up on all of the things that happened out
at practice today.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Glad you got my memo about pink.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know we're matching. For those not watching at home,
we both are wearing pink and it is hilarious. So
I am going to actually let you go because I'm
going to get Tarn watk cool bye this seat. She's
written a story on edge rushers and first your production
and what realistic expectations should be, so I'm very excited
(17:04):
to talk to her a little bit about that and
what makes Jayalen Walker and James Pearce Junior tick and
what that could mean for them in your one.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
But thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Will of course anytime.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
All right, I've switched well out for Tarren Walk. Taren,
welcome to the podcast studio.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Sorry I'm not in pink, but you won't catch me
in pink.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I was about to say, honestly, like I know for
a fact, Aryan and I will always match when she's
in all black, and if I wear any color at all,
it's like.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I'm sorry, but no, I'm really excited to welcome you
into the podcast studio today because you wrote a story yesterday.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
We're recording this on what day is it? Wednesday? Today's
Tuesday's Tuesday. We're recording this on Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
The holiday Memorial Day weekend really got me, so I
hope everybody had a great Memorial Day weekend. But anyways,
it is Tuesday. You wrote a story that ran earlier
this morning about expectations that we should have for year
one pass rushers that are taken in the first round,
and I really thoroughly enjoyed reading it. You put a
(18:06):
lot of work in everybody. Go to Atlanta Falcons dot
com and check out Terren's work.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It's a two part story.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There's a main analysis and then there is a separate
story that we've linked in the story that kind of
breaks down all of the.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Numbers, particularly sack numbers that Tarran has pulled for these guys.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So I go, as we're talking about this, like if
you're not doing anything, like go pull it up on
the site and walk through it with us, because I
have a few questions that I'm really excited to get to.
But first things versus like why did you want to
tell this story? You know, obviously the Falcons have not one,
but two first round picks that are going to be
(18:44):
coming off the edge in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
So where did this story idea kind of come from
for you?
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I mean, it just came from questions that were asked
immediately after the two were selected, right, I remember Jalen
Walker was selected well in JPJ James Pierce Junior on
the same day. So the press conference was this But
I remember being in there and multiple people being like, oh,
pass rushers in year one don't have the production, Like
why are you confident these two can have an immediate impact?
(19:09):
And of course the Falcons leadership is confident they can
have an immediate impact.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And I was like, is like, what's the validity behind
this question? Like is it true?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Like do rookie pass rushers kind of not really have
the numbers that you would want? Is there a jump
in your two, like when does the jump come? If so,
and so I looked at the numbers to see if
this is true, because like that question came from somewhere,
and I was like where, And the numbers do show
that in their first year. Pass rushers tend to not
(19:40):
really show the numbers that you would want, regardless of
the round they were picked in. And so what I
did is I looked at the past five years of
all linebackers and all defensive linemen, which some could argue
some of them wouldn't pass rush, some of them wouldn't
do this, but like for simplicity's sake, anyone who's not
in the secondary can be involved in the pass rush.
And so I just looked at them because you like,
everyone does their defense differently. Of course I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Everyone names their guys differently sometimes like some guys are
defensive ends, sometimes they're outside linebackers. Like it just it
depends on your coaching staff and what they So.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I did the big buckets of linebacker and defensive lineman,
and I did the last five years because that means
you've cycled out of your rookie contract if you had
your fifth year.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And with that, I just.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Looked at their sec totals year over year, and on
average in year one, in their first year, these five years,
they averaged three point three sacks.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Which that's kind of bananas to me because that was
where I was thinking in my mind, because you even
asked me the question, You're like, okay, like in a
first year, what would you deem to be a realistic
expectation in terms of just sheer sack numbers. We're not
talking about quarterback hits, we're not talking about pressures, we're
not talking about that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
We're literally gently saying about sacks.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And I think I said to you, like five or six.
I was like, that could be a really good year
if you get five or six. And then to know
that over the course of the last five years it's
been around three per individual as an average, like that
was kind of shocking to me.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
You look at last year alone, Chop Robinson had six sacks,
but when you take their class average, it was three
point two because you had a low of a half
a sack. And so when you look at all what
is it six of them, there was four sacks, there
was a half sack, there were three sacks, four and
a half sacks, six sacks one sack, So it is
kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
A little all over the place.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
But when you take the average, last year's first rounders
who pass rush average three point two, which is below
the average average of the crop eye pulled. But there's
still outliers like Will Anderson in twenty twenty three head seven.
Of course, Aiden Hutchinson had nine and a half in
twenty twenty two, Micah Parsons. The biggest outlier of this
(21:52):
entire study is just Mike thirteen in twenty twenty one
as a rookie, and you even go back to twenty
twenty when Chase Young had seven and a half.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
But what was even more interesting is when you get
into the numbers of year two, there's significant jump the
average of the five years. You can't count last year
because they didn't get to year two, but the so
the average of the four before was what it was
it four point shooe, let me see about four point seven. Yeah,
so that's a significant jump. Like, yes, it only looks
like one to two ish, but you're looking at an
(22:22):
entire class. And again there's a huge range of numbers here,
but it is proven that year one to year two
there is a jump, and you can see that with
the numbers too, Like gosh, Will Anderson went from seven
to eleven to pull the exact same guys. Aiden Hudgenson
went from nine and a half to eleven and a half.
Micah Parsons, well, he went from thirteen to thirteen and
(22:43):
a half, so it's still.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Again a big jump, but it's still a mad number.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And then he went to fourteen.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
So you see year over year and even I picked
two guys or three guys that work directly with Jeff
Olbreaker worked directly with Nate Alie, and you saw the
same trends out of them. And so I know they're
confident that they can get this immediate impact out of
Jalen Walker and James Piers Junior. I'll be curious to
see if, like they can, like if they break this average.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, because that's the thing is, like I what I'm
thinking about the what does immediate impact look like? You know, like,
what does immediate impact look like for the Falcons with
Jalen Walker and James Piers Junior? Are you okay with
three and a half sacks for each guy throughout an
entire season?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I guess it depends on what Arnold Abacketty is doing.
It depends on what Leonard Floyd is doing. Braylin Trice,
you know, I think that you have to look at
it from a holistic standpoint of your pass rush Kayden Ellis.
If Kayden Ellis leads this team again in sacks, are
you okay with that?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I guess it depends on the number. You know, what,
did he.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Have six five and a half last year? I think
Arnold Abakhetty led with six and a half. Yeah, it
was around there. It was in that range, right, So
if you are you okay with that? I guess it depends.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
To my point, it's like it depends on the collective
unit as a whole. So I'm curious for you as
you were really diving into all of this and really
learning about what type of jump can be made from
year one to year two. I'm curious what does all
of this mean for Jalen Walker and James Pearce Junior
in their first year.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
I think people can relax a little bit on the
expectations for them because you name so many people that
I think of.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Nate Ali said the other day where it's like you're.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Not gonna have one guy with this astronomical number, with
this attack style front that they want to implement, you're
gonna have like as a collective unit, a big number,
Like you don't really want one superstar. He used the
phrase no independent contractors, Like you're not gonna have one
superstar in this style. It's kind of just like all
coming at it in the wave after wave kind of
thing that he's been describing. And so if it is
(24:58):
around three or four for those two, I would consider
to access as long as you are with the average
or above average in my mind, because there are so
many others, and I think the public in general, because
I put a poll out that's like, what would you
realistically you can consider a good year for either of these?
And I think the range was one to three, four
to five, six to eight. I'm missing number somewhere because
(25:21):
the final one was ten and up, but around that, yeah,
and on average mostly everyone picked I think like the
second or third, like the four to six, yeah, four
to six change. I'm missing up my own poll right now,
but I was like, your your expectations are.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
A little high.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Here's the thing though, I what's funny is is like
that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
No, it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And what I think is really interesting is is the
Falcons And you wrote about this in your story.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The Falcons have been in.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
The bottom quartile of sacks over the last what five years,
twenty eighteen? They are last, yeah, last in collective sacks
over that time timeframe. So honestly, what we're taught talking
about in terms of realistic expectations and the jump you
could make in pass rush if you can go from
thirty two to twenty five, like, that's a great jump
(26:09):
for this team, this organization considering how little movement there's
been in terms of sack production collectively over the last
seven eight years. So I know that I talked to
Will a little bit about what he saw and took
away from practice. And I want to ask you kind
of in the context of this story and really looking
(26:30):
at Jaywalk and looking at JPJ, like these two guys
who this coaching staff, and let's be honest, the SPAN
base wants to come in and make an impact immediately,
what did they kind of look like out during their
first ARTA practice.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Anytime you say Jaywalk, I think of my father, So
I know, I'm like, how was my dad out there?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Just jiffy free.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Jalen Walker had some reps with the first team, which
I thought was very noteworthy because Raheem Morris did say
what was it at Rookie Mini Caamp that it is
realistic to expect the rookies to play in your one,
to make an impact your one, and play significant reps,
and so to see that already being implemented or like
getting a few reps here and there, It wasn't like
(27:11):
a lot a lot, right, Yeah, but just seeing it
in general was interesting. I can't really speak on James
Pierce Junior and how he performed in team because he didn't.
I'm not really sure why we spoke to Raheem Morris
before practice not after. I'm sure that might be a
question when we do get to talk to Raheem next. Yeah,
so I can't speak on that. He was there though,
(27:31):
and like actively watching and.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Did all like individual stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, he was running off to the side a bit later. Yeah,
So not sure what that is he practiced in rookie right, yeah,
like fully Yeah, so who knows.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It was a gross day.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Maybe we'll ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, Again, as I said earlier with Will like, we
have a lot of practice time ahead of us, and
I don't think this one practice is gonna make or
break much.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Of anything at all.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
But is there anything else you want to say about
this case study and writing this story in any thing
that you enjoyed about it?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I think the key here is just to be pleasantly surprised,
happily surprised, rather than being unrealistically hopeful, like keep a
level ahead of it, any level letting like, I don't know,
I can't think of a.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I don't know I was gonna think of I can't
think of the word I want to say.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Anyways, that's embarrassing, but it's just being realistic. I know
people are very very excited about Jalen Walker and James
Pierce Junior both and rightly so right they should be
their first round graph picks.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You went up into the first round to get James
Freers Junior again to make sure that you had two
pass rushers right going into twenty twenty five an area
of significant need.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
So yes, there should be a level.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
There is you be as excited as you want, yes,
just don't be mean if their numbers aren't exactly what
you want them to be, like.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Guess technically speaking, according to Tarran and all the work
that you put in on this story, like, it's not astronomical,
like the outliers of Aiden Hutcherson and Michael Parsons.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
They are who they are because they're the outline.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
In five years, there's one player who had double digit
sacks in their rookie years.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, it's like, let's tape expectations a little bit.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
People like, but go ahead, if they go and have
twenty sacks twenty, I don't know. If they do that,
then round of applause. I'll throw the study in the trash. Yeah,
or I'll just redo it and you'll skew the average
and you'll be an outliar. All the math terms necessary,
all the thanks.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
All right, Well, this has been a really fascinating conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Again, everybody go check out Terren's work on Atlanta Falcons
dot com. I know, I really enjoyed reading it and
checking it out, and it really did help me. I think,
put him to perspective what my own expectations are. It's
like any other position people, right, So I would definitely
recommend you guys go check that out. Well, that's gonna
do it for the Atlanta Falcons. Podcast Network coming to
(29:57):
you after the Falcon's very first OT practice.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Again, make sure and like comment subscribe. You could catch us.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Anywhere where you can find your podcast, whether it's YouTube, Spotify,
Apple pod, tarn and I and will too.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
We'll be back at a later date. We have a
lot more, many more practices to get to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Hopefully the next one isn't as gross.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
I don't want to say where summer because then I'm
gonna be like, why is it so hot?
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I know it.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's what's so crazy is I've never had an OTA
practice that was like frigid, and this one was cold.
But we will be back next time, so make sure
and check it out. Until then, guys, thanks so much
Dirty Birds Football is back here in Flowery branch OTAs
Man OTA's They just started. We just saw, well, I
say we, you just saw the first practice. I had
to be inside doing some managerial work.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Don't act like you don't have a nice, lovely, lovely
big window.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I can say that I was looking out the window
pretty significantly, but I was not down on the sidelines
because of my schedule today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You were.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So this is actually a very important podcast for yours
truly as well for those listening and watching at home,
because I wasn't out there, so I don't know what
was happening.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're our audience. I am literally real time.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
This is real time learning for me, which I'm really
excited to get into. So we're gonna spend the next
ten fifteen minutes going over everything you saw at practice.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Now, remember, everybody, this is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
A voluntary OTA's mandatory mini camp doesn't start for another
week and a half, and so this is something that
we will be checking in every now and again.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
With the podcast only a couple of media availabilities, I
think per kind of phase. Yeah, right, so we had
one today, We'll have another one next week, and then
I don't know the rest of the schedule off the
top of my head, but we will keep you updated
from there.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We will literally be there from start to finish. So
let's dive in because I have a few questions that
I want to get to. Overall, I think that this
is a really important time for a lot of players
and coaches. It's a big part of install I know
last year talking to Zach Robinson, he was like, this
is where majority of the work that we need to do,
the brunch of the work we need to be putting
(01:36):
in this offense. It's all about what's happening in the
meeting rooms and inside your own brain. But this year
is a little bit different in that a lot of
these offensive players.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Are carryover from last year.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A lot of them know what they're doing, a lot
of them know exactly kind of what Zach Robinson is
implementing or has already implemented. And then you do have
some new faces on the defense Jeff Olbrick included. But
Jeff Olbrich has you know what, I want to make
this as simple of a defense as I possibly can
in terms of scheme. So I guess my question for
you is is like, as you are looking at this
(02:10):
ota period and the first time you're getting to see
these guys really out on the grass. What should the
goal for this Atlanta Falcons team be right now? And
what did Raheem Morris say earlier today about it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The overarching goal for any period before the regular season
starts is to stay healthy. So that is number one,
and you're going to hear that one hundred million times
between now and the start of the regular season. But
outside of that, I think it's kind of like two
different things. Right for the rookies, it's just getting acclimated
(02:43):
to the speed of an NFL practice. It's understanding where
to be, when to be there, how fast to move
from period to period, individual drills, team drills, all of
that right because they need every single rep to matter,
and time is very precious in kind of the current
landscape of the NFL. So that's kind of what this
is for the rookies. But I want to go back
because one of the most interesting things to me about
(03:05):
today's practice was, yes, this is a returning offense with
a lot of known starters, veterans in the case of
you know, Jake Matthews and Chris Lynstrom and now Drake Lennon.
You know, we can kind of say that, so there
are known commodities on this offense. However, I kind of
think that this is still a little bit of an
install period for Atlanta because of how singularly talented Michael
(03:29):
PENNOCKX Junior is in terms of where he can put
the ball on the field, which is to just say,
like anywhere. So I do think you're gonna see a
newer version of this offense than we saw last year
with Kirk Cousins running the show at this point in time.
So because of that, Yeah, there were some growing pains.
(03:49):
I think we saw it there on day one of
OTA's which is very important to stress.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
But well, that was gonna be my question. They're still
like shots, right, like, what did Michael Pennocks Junior look like?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
This is really the first time that you're getting to
see him with a helmet on throwing to his receivers
and honestly since last season the season ended, So how
did he look today?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
He looked a.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Little bumpy, to be honest, particularly in kind of the
eleven on eleven periods, and it's it's just tough to
tell if it was gloomy and muggy and rainy and
kind of he was an off day for.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Him, which it was. It was a gross outside, it
was it's really cold too.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Talked a lot about on the sidelines amongst the media
members who were ill prepared for this weather. But it
just looked a little bit sloppy, just the whole offense.
And that's what I'm kind of getting at is I
do think that this is still gonna be a little
bit of a learning process as you get going into
even the preseason, right, So that is, but then the
(04:49):
positive for Michael Pennox was particularly and take this with
a grain of salt, because again, it's OTA's they're throwing
against air.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, and you also don't really know exactly what they're
being asked to do, what they're specifically working on. I
always try to tell people that, especially during training camp.
It's like, yes, you're seeing kind of some of these big,
flashy plays, but you don't know what the defense is
trying to do.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
You don't know what they're installing. There's just a lot
of like unknowns in terms of what's being asked of
these players.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Only people that know it are the ones out there
on the field and in the coaching staff. But in
this particular example, None of that matters because it was
just the touch on some of his short throws. A
we talk about his arm strength and how we can
launch down the field. But last season, I think particularly
in training camp early on, I noticed that's a five
yard slant, man, you don't need to put it like
right between his eyeballs as fast as you can. Yeah,
(05:40):
And so today I just watched some of those slants,
some of those quick ins, those outs, much more touch
on the ball, kind of feathery, a lot better pace.
So that was a positive that I think actually matters
more than the sloppy nature of the play out there,
because that's just day one of OTA's.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Right and again gross outside. Yeah exact, I didn't want
to be out there. It just so happened that I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But no, I'm glad that you bring up Michael Pennocks,
and I'm glad that you kind of broke down how
he looked and maybe the reasons why.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
But also a little bit of like this is still
very early on.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
There's still a lot of questions that we have to
answer in regards to Michael Pennocks and where he's going.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
But something else that I really wanted to touch on
with you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Is you know, again, like I mentioned off the top,
this is voluntary OTAs. You don't have to be here.
Players don't have to be here if they don't want to.
But it's a really important time again in terms of
install So when you were looking out there at the
full gamut of what players were there, who was there,
who wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Kirk Cousins was not there, which Raheem Morris you know,
talked about in the press conference beforehand, said he hadn't
seen him in the building. But again, these are voluntary,
so he's been around, he hasn't been around. It kind
of is besides the point because again Michael Pennix Junior
is really the focus out there on the field, and.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like what we've said, this is going to be a
fluid situation until it's.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Not exactly and if he's the backup quarterback, everybody's comfortable
with that like it. So everything is just preceding the
way it has been forever. Right time is a flat circle.
What is anything anyway? Ryan Noozell out there continued to
practice with the team. You know, Dwayne Ledford has spoken twice,
the offensive line coach here in Atlanta about Ryan Neuzel
and how excited he is and kind of a connuity
(07:23):
that he brings and what he showed in his eight
starts last year. So even though nothing has been signed
on the dotted line, for all intents and purposes, the
plan is Nowsle is the guy at center there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, And I think with Noosle, it's interesting because you're right, like,
he's technically not under contract right right now, and he.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Signed a medical waiver I believe to practice.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
To practice, Okay, So that's what's interesting about this. And
it makes me think, and I have this is Tory talking.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
This is not the Falcons organization or front office or
anything like that, but it makes me think that it's
potentially the Falcons are potentially setting up a maybe longer
term deal with Ryan Noozle because it's taken so long.
Because if you were just going to sign him to
the one year tender that I think it's just north
of like three million dollars in one year, then you
would have already done it. It makes me kind of
(08:08):
think that they're opening the door a little bit that
they really believe in Ryan Noozle and they really think
that they could have something longer term with him, even
if they were to let say go and draft a
starting center next off season to have him as a backup.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
We've seen what he's been as.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
A backup, yea. And they're not afraid, as they've shown
and said, to add competition even where there is some.
So yeah, like, I don't think it precludes you from
adding at the position moving forward, and you know, we'll
we'll see where it goes from here. But again, it
seems as though Ryan Noozle is going to be the
starting center here in Atlanta in twenty twenty five, even
though it just is he's not on the roster.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Right, that's what we've been told. Weird, it's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
There's always one weird thing with an offensive lineman to
every single training camp, preseason, off season, you name it.
There's something weird with the offensive line that we got
to touch on.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I'm just glad I'm not like talking about the left
guard anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know they shifted one inside the center position to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So when it comes to guys who were out there
and who weren't, it's interesting because you do.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Get a lot of guys off of ir that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Are coming back slowly, but surely guys like Young Wayku,
guys like Brayln Trice, DeMarco Helms. What updates do you
have for the people listening and myself about.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Where these guys are.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, so Braylen Trice not out there practicing with the team,
kind of still in his recovery and rehabilitation phase after
tearing his acl last preseason unfortunately, and Rahee Morris says,
we'll see maybe by training camp he's back. They would
certainly like to get him back in the fold by then,
but you know, with a young player whose career is
(09:43):
fully ahead of him, you want to be cautious with
these types of things. So I wouldn't be surprised if
you know, we'll see how it all plays out. Young
Wayku is been kicking. We spoke to a matter of practice.
He says, he's kicking about two days a week now,
which is a good kind of place that he likes
to be at. It is consistent with his routine has been,
(10:04):
you know, over the years. So seems like he's any
good spot as he works back from the injury last year.
And then DeMarco Helms was back out there cool and
that's awesome. That's great to see. He also got injured
in that same game as Breyllan Trice. But I think
the Falcons kind of sneaky are high on at least
a role for him. I'm not saying he's all of
a sudden starting right across from Jesse Bates fully, but
(10:27):
I think they have a way to use him in mind,
and they are excited to see what that's going to
look like in this defense.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Let's talk about Young Wikhu a little bit, because I
know that this is going to be a topic of
conversation over the next months and as we get into
the regular season. Is like, the Falcons do have a
kicking competition on their hands. They brought in competition for
Young Wick who I know that you talk to him
a little bit after practice kind of what's his mentality
going like going into I guess this next period of
(10:55):
his career.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I mean he he said that he welcomed kind
of the compition. At this point in time, it's not
any different than it has been in years past. Typically
teams do go into training camp with two kickers on
the roster and there is some competition, and you know
then he kind of said all the right. Things of
even when you make the roster, you're competing against thirty
one other you know, kickers around the league and whoever
(11:18):
else may be available. So I think the biggest thing
for him was once he identified all right, this injury
is not getting any better. It is something that he
says he's dealt with before as a kicker. It is
just kind of the natural right.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Hip injury there.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, And what was interesting is I spoke to him
kind of earlier in the season, way before any of
this ever cropped up, just just kind of asking about
his workout and how he stays healthy and for the
long term, and really is about your core. It's your
core that keeps your hips tight and in place because
everything is stabilized much better. So I think all of
(11:54):
that once it just kind of started getting a little
bit out of whack, it broke down from there, right,
and there wasn't a way that they could get it
healthier without taking a step back. So that's when they
went on ir and all of that. And unfortunately Falcons
didn't make the playoffs, so season ended and then he
went into his off season. But I think he's looking
(12:15):
forward to a competition. I think most importantly, like he
has focused on his regimen, his routine. Who is a
very structured guy. He doesn't like to deviate from his
habit as most great kickers are. You know, kickers are
like golfers, their creatures of habit and routine. Yeah, so
it sounds like he is right back in his and
looking forward to proving it once again in training camp.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I know that's one of the competitions I'm looking at
most closely. But another competition that I'm really curious to
see how this goes is at Nickel. And you know,
I think that it's no secret that between d Alford,
Clark Phillips and now Billy Bowman Junior, there is kind
of this wide open competition, at least in my head
(12:58):
about what the starting Nickel package could look like. And
I know that I one of the questions that I
keyed you up on is, hey, who's someone who stood
out in this one singular practice that we're talking about
what's one person or one position group?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
And you actually brought up Billy Bowman Junior. Can you
explain why?
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean I think that you could kind of see
from both of the Falcons rookie safeties Xavier Wats and
Billy Bowman, like there is a real legitimate field speed
to them. I think there's instincts that allow them to
play a lot faster than maybe they're the numbers during
the draft process might suggest, right, because that's what we
all get caught up on. It's like is it a
four four seven or is it a four five three?
(13:42):
And if one then we can't draft and the other
he's a first rounder. It's like how quickly can they
diagnose things out on the field. And that was something
where seeing Billy Bowman, who's playing close to the line
of scrimmage, that's got to be a quality that you have.
You have to see things quickly and more importantly, react
as soon as you recognize what has hapen happening. And
then Xavier Watts on the back end, I thought kind
(14:02):
of demonstrated the same qualities as soon as the ball
was out of quarterbacks saying boom, he was breaking and going.
So really it's it's that Nickel combo with the safety
because I think the Falcons have the personality lump Kevin
King in there. You know Billy Bowmen for sure, but
d Alford Clark Phillips, like there are some bodies that
are very different. If you want to go big nickel,
(14:24):
you maybe put it Kevin King in there. If you
want to go you know, a little smaller but quicker,
that's maybe Billy Bowman, that's the Alford. Like, there are
a lot of options that the Falcons do have, and
again that feels like it's across the board on this defense.
You look at the defensive line options, you look at
edge rusher options, you look at nickel options, safety options,
(14:45):
like there's there is a lot of versatility to this
defense and malleability for how the coaching staff wants to
ultimately deplay it and deploy it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So when you are looking at and you know, we
talk defense, let's switch over offense. Who stood out offensively
for you that you were really one either excited to
see out there today or somebody who caught.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Your ef It was really solid for the offensive line.
That's kind of a bad answer, but again, it wasn't
like the greatest day for the offense. I thought Bijon
did have a nice, really good run, long run down
the left sideline that was notable. Showcased his speed, so everybody.
Tyler al Jear showcased his vision too, as well, Tiegan Quittoriano,
(15:24):
the new tight end that they brought in as a
free agent. He was somebody who really was not on
my radar going into today, but I just kind of
noticed in a little like Charlie Warner light role John
Fitzpatrick last year as well, more of a run blocker,
but did great in that role. And I thought the
offensive line was the of the offense overall, was like
(15:46):
the most impressive part. Yeah, and kind of the one
part that took it to the defense. So overall, it
was a good day for Atlanta's defense, I would.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Say, nice. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I'm very fascinated to see kind of how this progresses.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
And it's like, okay, defense in the day to day,
but they always start, always right, and.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Then it's like what happens when you really get the
pads on, what happens when you're really going faster?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And none of the rookies with the first team, you
know I should mention. So again, it wasn't like, oh,
now you've inserted these four rookies into the lineup and
the defense has gone far and away better. No, it
was still you know, you have Leonard float out there on,
Katie was out there, You're like you had your kind
of veteran guys that you know and love out there
on the defense.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Well, there's so many more practices ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
This is the first of very many, you guys, like
whether it's the spring and or summer or training camp
when we get into it. But Will thank you so
much for sitting down and talking to me and catching
me up on all of the things that happened out
at practice today.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Glad you got my memo about pink.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know we're matching. For those not watching at home,
we both are wearing pink and it is hilarious. So
I am going to actually let you go because I'm
going to get Tarn watk cool bye this seat. She's
written a story on edge rushers and first your production
and what realistic expectations should be, so I'm very excited
(17:04):
to talk to her a little bit about that and
what makes Jayalen Walker and James Pearce Junior tick and
what that could mean for them in your one.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
But thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Will of course anytime.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
All right, I've switched well out for Tarren Walk. Taren,
welcome to the podcast studio.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Sorry I'm not in pink, but you won't catch me
in pink.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I was about to say, honestly, like I know for
a fact, Aryan and I will always match when she's
in all black, and if I wear any color at all,
it's like.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I'm sorry, but no, I'm really excited to welcome you
into the podcast studio today because you wrote a story yesterday.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
We're recording this on what day is it? Wednesday? Today's
Tuesday's Tuesday. We're recording this on Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
The holiday Memorial Day weekend really got me, so I
hope everybody had a great Memorial Day weekend. But anyways,
it is Tuesday. You wrote a story that ran earlier
this morning about expectations that we should have for year
one pass rushers that are taken in the first round,
and I really thoroughly enjoyed reading it. You put a
(18:06):
lot of work in everybody. Go to Atlanta Falcons dot
com and check out Terren's work.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It's a two part story.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There's a main analysis and then there is a separate
story that we've linked in the story that kind of
breaks down all of the.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Numbers, particularly sack numbers that Tarran has pulled for these guys.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So I go, as we're talking about this, like if
you're not doing anything, like go pull it up on
the site and walk through it with us, because I
have a few questions that I'm really excited to get to.
But first things versus like why did you want to
tell this story? You know, obviously the Falcons have not one,
but two first round picks that are going to be
(18:44):
coming off the edge in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
So where did this story idea kind of come from
for you?
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I mean, it just came from questions that were asked
immediately after the two were selected, right, I remember Jalen
Walker was selected well in JPJ James Pierce Junior on
the same day. So the press conference was this But
I remember being in there and multiple people being like, oh,
pass rushers in year one don't have the production, Like
why are you confident these two can have an immediate impact?
(19:09):
And of course the Falcons leadership is confident they can
have an immediate impact.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And I was like, is like, what's the validity behind
this question? Like is it true?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Like do rookie pass rushers kind of not really have
the numbers that you would want? Is there a jump
in your two, like when does the jump come? If so,
and so I looked at the numbers to see if
this is true, because like that question came from somewhere,
and I was like where, And the numbers do show
that in their first year. Pass rushers tend to not
(19:40):
really show the numbers that you would want, regardless of
the round they were picked in. And so what I
did is I looked at the past five years of
all linebackers and all defensive linemen, which some could argue
some of them wouldn't pass rush, some of them wouldn't
do this, but like for simplicity's sake, anyone who's not
in the secondary can be involved in the pass rush.
And so I just looked at them because you like,
everyone does their defense differently. Of course I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Everyone names their guys differently sometimes like some guys are
defensive ends, sometimes they're outside linebackers. Like it just it
depends on your coaching staff and what they So.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I did the big buckets of linebacker and defensive lineman,
and I did the last five years because that means
you've cycled out of your rookie contract if you had
your fifth year.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And with that, I just.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Looked at their sec totals year over year, and on
average in year one, in their first year, these five years,
they averaged three point three sacks.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Which that's kind of bananas to me because that was
where I was thinking in my mind, because you even
asked me the question, You're like, okay, like in a
first year, what would you deem to be a realistic
expectation in terms of just sheer sack numbers. We're not
talking about quarterback hits, we're not talking about pressures, we're
not talking about that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
We're literally gently saying about sacks.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And I think I said to you, like five or six.
I was like, that could be a really good year
if you get five or six. And then to know
that over the course of the last five years it's
been around three per individual as an average, like that
was kind of shocking to me.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
You look at last year alone, Chop Robinson had six sacks,
but when you take their class average, it was three
point two because you had a low of a half
a sack. And so when you look at all what
is it six of them, there was four sacks, there
was a half sack, there were three sacks, four and
a half sacks, six sacks one sack, So it is
kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
A little all over the place.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
But when you take the average, last year's first rounders
who pass rush average three point two, which is below
the average average of the crop eye pulled. But there's
still outliers like Will Anderson in twenty twenty three head seven.
Of course, Aiden Hutchinson had nine and a half in
twenty twenty two, Micah Parsons. The biggest outlier of this
(21:52):
entire study is just Mike thirteen in twenty twenty one
as a rookie, and you even go back to twenty
twenty when Chase Young had seven and a half.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
But what was even more interesting is when you get
into the numbers of year two, there's significant jump the
average of the five years. You can't count last year
because they didn't get to year two, but the so
the average of the four before was what it was
it four point shooe, let me see about four point seven. Yeah,
so that's a significant jump. Like, yes, it only looks
like one to two ish, but you're looking at an
(22:22):
entire class. And again there's a huge range of numbers here,
but it is proven that year one to year two
there is a jump, and you can see that with
the numbers too, Like gosh, Will Anderson went from seven
to eleven to pull the exact same guys. Aiden Hudgenson
went from nine and a half to eleven and a half.
Micah Parsons, well, he went from thirteen to thirteen and
(22:43):
a half, so it's still.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Again a big jump, but it's still a mad number.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And then he went to fourteen.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
So you see year over year and even I picked
two guys or three guys that work directly with Jeff
Olbreaker worked directly with Nate Alie, and you saw the
same trends out of them. And so I know they're
confident that they can get this immediate impact out of
Jalen Walker and James Piers Junior. I'll be curious to
see if, like they can, like if they break this average.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, because that's the thing is, like I what I'm
thinking about the what does immediate impact look like? You know, like,
what does immediate impact look like for the Falcons with
Jalen Walker and James Piers Junior? Are you okay with
three and a half sacks for each guy throughout an
entire season?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I guess it depends on what Arnold Abacketty is doing.
It depends on what Leonard Floyd is doing. Braylin Trice,
you know, I think that you have to look at
it from a holistic standpoint of your pass rush Kayden Ellis.
If Kayden Ellis leads this team again in sacks, are
you okay with that?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I guess it depends on the number. You know, what,
did he.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Have six five and a half last year? I think
Arnold Abakhetty led with six and a half. Yeah, it
was around there. It was in that range, right, So
if you are you okay with that? I guess it depends.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
To my point, it's like it depends on the collective
unit as a whole. So I'm curious for you as
you were really diving into all of this and really
learning about what type of jump can be made from
year one to year two. I'm curious what does all
of this mean for Jalen Walker and James Pearce Junior
in their first year.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
I think people can relax a little bit on the
expectations for them because you name so many people that
I think of.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Nate Ali said the other day where it's like you're.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Not gonna have one guy with this astronomical number, with
this attack style front that they want to implement, you're
gonna have like as a collective unit, a big number,
Like you don't really want one superstar. He used the
phrase no independent contractors, Like you're not gonna have one
superstar in this style. It's kind of just like all
coming at it in the wave after wave kind of
thing that he's been describing. And so if it is
(24:58):
around three or four for those two, I would consider
to access as long as you are with the average
or above average in my mind, because there are so
many others, and I think the public in general, because
I put a poll out that's like, what would you
realistically you can consider a good year for either of these?
And I think the range was one to three, four
to five, six to eight. I'm missing number somewhere because
(25:21):
the final one was ten and up, but around that, yeah,
and on average mostly everyone picked I think like the
second or third, like the four to six, yeah, four
to six change. I'm missing up my own poll right now,
but I was like, your your expectations are.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
A little high.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Here's the thing though, I what's funny is is like
that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
No, it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And what I think is really interesting is is the
Falcons And you wrote about this in your story.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The Falcons have been in.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
The bottom quartile of sacks over the last what five years,
twenty eighteen? They are last, yeah, last in collective sacks
over that time timeframe. So honestly, what we're taught talking
about in terms of realistic expectations and the jump you
could make in pass rush if you can go from
thirty two to twenty five, like, that's a great jump
(26:09):
for this team, this organization considering how little movement there's
been in terms of sack production collectively over the last
seven eight years. So I know that I talked to
Will a little bit about what he saw and took
away from practice. And I want to ask you kind
of in the context of this story and really looking
(26:30):
at Jaywalk and looking at JPJ, like these two guys
who this coaching staff, and let's be honest, the SPAN
base wants to come in and make an impact immediately,
what did they kind of look like out during their
first ARTA practice.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Anytime you say Jaywalk, I think of my father, So
I know, I'm like, how was my dad out there?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Just jiffy free.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Jalen Walker had some reps with the first team, which
I thought was very noteworthy because Raheem Morris did say
what was it at Rookie Mini Caamp that it is
realistic to expect the rookies to play in your one,
to make an impact your one, and play significant reps,
and so to see that already being implemented or like
getting a few reps here and there, It wasn't like
(27:11):
a lot a lot, right, Yeah, but just seeing it
in general was interesting. I can't really speak on James
Pierce Junior and how he performed in team because he didn't.
I'm not really sure why we spoke to Raheem Morris
before practice not after. I'm sure that might be a
question when we do get to talk to Raheem next. Yeah,
so I can't speak on that. He was there though,
(27:31):
and like actively watching and.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Did all like individual stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, he was running off to the side a bit later. Yeah,
So not sure what that is he practiced in rookie right, yeah,
like fully Yeah, so who knows.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It was a gross day.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Maybe we'll ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, Again, as I said earlier with Will like, we
have a lot of practice time ahead of us, and
I don't think this one practice is gonna make or
break much.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Of anything at all.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
But is there anything else you want to say about
this case study and writing this story in any thing
that you enjoyed about it?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I think the key here is just to be pleasantly surprised,
happily surprised, rather than being unrealistically hopeful, like keep a
level ahead of it, any level letting like, I don't know,
I can't think of a.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I don't know I was gonna think of I can't
think of the word I want to say.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Anyways, that's embarrassing, but it's just being realistic. I know
people are very very excited about Jalen Walker and James
Pierce Junior both and rightly so right they should be
their first round graph picks.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You went up into the first round to get James
Freers Junior again to make sure that you had two
pass rushers right going into twenty twenty five an area
of significant need.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
So yes, there should be a level.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
There is you be as excited as you want, yes,
just don't be mean if their numbers aren't exactly what
you want them to be, like.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Guess technically speaking, according to Tarran and all the work
that you put in on this story, like, it's not astronomical,
like the outliers of Aiden Hutcherson and Michael Parsons.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
They are who they are because they're the outline.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
In five years, there's one player who had double digit
sacks in their rookie years.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, it's like, let's tape expectations a little bit.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
People like, but go ahead, if they go and have
twenty sacks twenty, I don't know. If they do that,
then round of applause. I'll throw the study in the trash. Yeah,
or I'll just redo it and you'll skew the average
and you'll be an outliar. All the math terms necessary,
all the thanks.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
All right, Well, this has been a really fascinating conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Again, everybody go check out Terren's work on Atlanta Falcons
dot com. I know, I really enjoyed reading it and
checking it out, and it really did help me. I think,
put him to perspective what my own expectations are. It's
like any other position people, right, So I would definitely
recommend you guys go check that out. Well, that's gonna
do it for the Atlanta Falcons. Podcast Network coming to
(29:57):
you after the Falcon's very first OT practice.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Again, make sure and like comment subscribe. You could catch us.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Anywhere where you can find your podcast, whether it's YouTube, Spotify,
Apple pod, tarn and I and will too.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
We'll be back at a later date. We have a
lot more, many more practices to get to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Hopefully the next one isn't as gross.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
I don't want to say where summer because then I'm
gonna be like, why is it so hot?
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I know it.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's what's so crazy is I've never had an OTA
practice that was like frigid, and this one was cold.
But we will be back next time, so make sure
and check it out. Until then, guys, thanks so much
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.