June 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Will McFadden and Terrin Waack breakdown the biggest stories from the final days of the Atlanta Falcons' offseason program, including updates on Kirk Cousins and the brand new draft picks. Then Tori McElhaney joins the podcast to preview the top position battles fans can look forward to when training camp rolls around in July.
0:00 - Intro
1:45 - OTA development program
4:00 - Kirk Cousins attends minicamp
8:43 - Minicamp standouts
11:30 - Looking ahead to training camp
14:27 - Tori joins the show
15:45 - Top training camp battles
20:25 - Defensive Line
29:25 - Safeties
34:30 - Nickelback
39:25 - Happy Father's Day!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dirty Birds. What's up? And welcome back to the Atlanta
Falcons podcast network. I'm your host, Will mcfatten. I'm joined
today by Arren Walk and we are going to talk
about Falcons Mini Camp. But first let's do some quick
kind of programming reminders. We had a discussion of podcast
with Michael Vick recently, so please go check that out
on YouTube on Atlanta Falcons dot com if you have
(00:22):
not already. We've had some excellent coverage of mini Camp,
just photo video, written content by Arron herself, by me,
by Tory mclaney following along with the team, So please
go check all of that stuff out if you are
curious about what has been going on in Flowery Branch.
But Terren, how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm good. I can't believe off season program is over?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I know right, it feels like it just like we
were just kind of getting warmed up for it or
ramped up for it, and now all of a sudden,
it's over. Now we're gone.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
When Raheems was when Raheem Moore is said today like
the five week break is coming up already, it's about
to be I mean it is June and not about
to be. It is June. Yeah, that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I mean weirdly, like, Yeah, this offseason feels faster, and
it's been, on the one hand, like less busy because
you haven't had a coaching change. There's been quarterback stability,
even though we've been talking about the quarterback position a lot,
and we will continue to do so in this conversation.
But yeah, it's kind of flown right by. So let's
(01:26):
go ahead and get into what all we learned over
the last couple of days and really going back to
just kind of the OTA sessions in general. What's been
kind of the big theme for Atlanta so far over
the last few weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Oh gosh. I think it's mainly been emphasism on the
developing guys because they want those who are new to
Atlanta to feel comfortable in their role in what they're
supposed to be doing on a day in and day
out basis come training camp. So it's the simple things
of like when do I need to arrive for practice,
(02:01):
what are we doing during practice? What am I supposed
to do in this specific drill? When can I eat?
It's simple things like that, but when you enter a
brand new program, that's overwhelming It's just like if you
enter a new school or a new job, you need
to learn the ins and outs, and now is the
time to do that, as opposed to training camp, where
it's like, all right, we got a buckle and it's
time to go.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah. I think that's a great analogy and it's one
that I was prepared to make myself. Is school, Yeah
got cha, Yeah, you beat me too it I love that.
But when you kind of are going through that the
first week in a new school or a new job, yeah,
you kind of need somebody like latch onto somebody like
one of those fish on a shark where you're like, hey,
where's the cafeteria? Hey, like, oh, is that meeting right now?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, Like I hadn't accepted it yet, so it didn't
pop up on my reminder like those little things. Because
when training camp kicks off here at the end of July,
everything is like full go until the end of the season.
So when you're in a drill, the minutes, the precious
seconds that these players and coaches have out there on
the field, they matter. So you can't be falling behind,
(03:03):
you can't be screwing up, you can't really be now
of course you can. You can sit there and say, hey,
remind me of this, give me some feedback what am
I doing here? But you got to know what you're doing.
And so that's kind of what this time of year
is like for a lot of these young guys.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's syllabus week. Yeah, like after syllabus week, you can't
drop the class. You can't change your class schedule. You
can't be like, oh what am I majoring in? I
don't know. Actually, my end, my analogy went too far.
I was like, what else would they do? They can't
also drop out of the team. I guess they can,
but they won't.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
No, So yeah, it's it's figuring. But it's for the
coaches too, right, it's like learning, all right, what do
I have in this guy? And where can he improve?
And then what do we want to your students five
six weeks? Yeah? Figure out? Okay, let's now that we've
gotten eyeballs on them, we've gotten to lay hands on
them and kind of work with them a little bit.
All right, how do we want to tweet and adjust?
So the other main thing that kind of was the
(03:56):
story because a lot of the stuff on the field
that well, we'll get to here in a second, a
little bit lighter than I think you would usually see
in a training camp practice or you know, even during
the season. The Kirk Cousins was here for mandatory mini
camp and that was the biggest storyline probably for Atlanta
all off season and leading up too Mini camp. Would
he be here? Not only was he here, he spoke
(04:18):
to the media afterwards, what did he have to say?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I think Kirk handled the media the best he could
with the position he is in. He didn't rock any
boats or cause any waves when he knows this is
the reality that he is in and whether or not
he likes it, he has to accept it because it's
not like he can just go plug and play himself
(04:41):
somewhere else. There are other parties involved that have to
agree to say a trade. And so at this point
Kirk said those conversations for for January, February, March, even April.
But like we said at the beginning of this podcast, somehow, someway,
it is June, and he knows that the options out
there no longer exist. Really, I mean, you saw Aaron
(05:03):
Rodgers finally made a decision and is with the Pittsburgh Steelers,
and so there's really nowhere you can really put him.
That is not the Atlanta Falcons, and I think he
just has to accept that and if anything, embrace it.
And so he said he will be moving forward. He
wants this team to win. He even was like, come February,
(05:24):
I hope we're lifting a Lombardi Trophy. And then when
it came to Michael Pennick Junior, He's like, I want
to help him as much as I can, but I'm
not going to overstep. I'm not going to be constantly
in his ear where it's just too many voices talking
to him at once. If he needs help, he knows
he can come to me. And Penick said that too,
like it seemed very professional. Again, this is like what
(05:45):
we're seeing. Who knows what goes on inside like or
behind closed doors. But from the perspective of Michael Pennock
Junior and Kirk Cousins speaking to the media on Tuesday,
they all know where they stand and for better or worse,
they're all okay with it.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I thought he kind of
handled it as well as you could expect him to.
And it's really the exact same thing about the way
that he handled when he was benched, and he starts
to the media as well. It's kind of like, I
don't know what you expect him to say. He's a professional,
Like there's nothing, yeah, right, but there's nothing that he
can say that's going to make that any better or
different or maybe kind of like change it so that
(06:23):
he's getting his version of the It just is what
it is. And yet he's still standing there saying what
I truly believe he believes, because that has been the
case for Kirk Cousins throughout his entire career, is that
he's kind of been that role model, player, teammate, and
maybe mentor.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Now, if he came out to the media and started
just slandering people left and right, that's only going to
hurt his career. That's going to hurt his chances of
say a team does become available and looking to trade,
because who would want that? Who would want that in
their organization? So I think the way he's handling it
is best not only for the Falcons but also himself.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, but like, I don't even know if it is
that calculated. It certainly could be, right, but I.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Don't think it is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But I think it's it's a situation where the calculated
approach and the genuine approach probably from him as a person,
just happened overlap there and he's right in the middle
of that then diagram, right. But I thought that Raheem
actually had a statement where he said, you know, Kirk
is not in the business of kind of like making
Michael Pennox's life difficult. And I do think that that
is kind of the best way to view the whole thing.
(07:28):
And Kirk said, I'm here to kind of control what
I can control, and for him that that is a
smaller kind of piece of the pie than maybe it
was in January and February. And so that is kind
of how I think we've arrived at this situation where
he's here. He's the backup quarterback. Sure, I fully expect
him to go out there and training camp and not
necessarily just like hand the ball over to Michael Pennox
(07:49):
and be like totally yours. Now they've said he's the
starter moving forward, So until the coaches say anything different,
that is the way things are. But I expect Kirk
to go out there and play in training camp like
he's coming for a job.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's football. You never know what's going to happen. Like
we say, Michael Pennock Junior is the starter right now.
Who knows what comes to August, what comes to October, November, December.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
January, everything, Everything can happen because the season takes its
own shape and form. Last year, there was a plan
this time of year and ultimately that plan didn't come
to fruition the entire way. So yeah, again, anything can
can happen. That's what makes this sport so much fun
to follow.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
The worst thing Kirk could do is not be prepared.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yep, yep, totally well said. And I don't expect him
to not be well prepared because again, we know about
Kirk Cousins at this point in time, but who maybe
do our listeners not know so much about who stood
out on the field to you during mini camp.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Look, I'm going to hang my hat on this guy
making a big twenty twenty five return, and that is
safety to Marco Helms. Yes, we both went to Alabama,
but that is not why. I just think I remember
his rookie season that he just progressively got better and
better and what was he a seventh round draft pick,
(09:06):
but he had starting opportunities at the end of that year,
and then you come into his second season and he
was doing really well in training camp, but then got
injured and I think it was the first preseason game,
and that took him out for the entire season. And
we didn't know at the time it was going to
be the entire season, but it was. And I talked
(09:27):
to DeMarco today and he was pretty open about it,
being like that was difficult. That was the first time
I've had to go a whole year without football. But
if anything, that's kind of just pumped him up more
for this season because he was like, I was so
excited to put my jersey back on. It's good to
be back on the field. He may not be one
hundred percent right now, but you don't have to because
it's the off season program. But he said he will
(09:48):
be by training camp, and I think just to reiterate
that it's not just me excited about him too. Jesse
Bates was over with the media today too, and he's like, honestly,
DeMarco is the aggressor in the safety room. He is
the one who's like, I want to hit somebody all
the time. He's like bouncing off the walls to do
it right. Now essentially, and they nicknamed him Bam Bam,
(10:12):
and I was like, Jesse, does he like that nickname?
He goes, no, it makes him more angry, but that
makes it even better.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, if there's one person you want angry on the defense,
it's a guy named Bam bam. Right. I want to know,
is there are pebbles like he loose pebbles on the defense.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
We're not going to get into naming all of them.
You and I tried making up nicknames for different positions earlier.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's amazing content. We're not giving that away, Terren.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We're not going to name everyone else off after Flintstone's characters.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
We'll leave it.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Not yet. It is Flintstones's right, everybody, stay tuned. Yeah, okay,
we got it, Jets.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I really want to make sure that that reference.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Not ahead of the time. No. I think that's a
great that's a great pick because DeMarco Hellams is, like
people forget Justin Simmons was not on the roster because
Marco Hellams was a player. I think they envisioned taking
that next step. Now, who knows, maybe they still make
the Simons signing. If Helms is like, that's all in
the past, and it's hypothetical and everything changes based.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
On you have Jordan Fuller now too, so it's not
just automatically.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, So, like, is that the safety group is crowded?
There are a few different groups here, like inside linebacker
kind of a similar deal, Nickel corner kind of a
similar deal. Like there are some depths where there is suddenly, yeah,
some some depth. So like I guess as we wrap
up this conversation and you guys can stick around for
the second part of this episode where I'll be joined
by Tory McLane and we're going to kind of preview
(11:34):
training camp. But tarn the last kind of question for
you is, like, is that safety group kind of the
number one position you're looking forward to seeing in training camp?
And are there maybe some others that have kind of
caught your eye?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I would have to say safety is number one just
because of this investment in a single player, like curious
how he's going to bounce back from his injury and
you're three. But at the same time, I think it's
just the defense as a whole because so many efforts
have been put in this offseason to bolster that unit
in depth and in talent that I'm curious what that
(12:13):
starting lineup is going to look like in general, because
there are so many options not just at safety, but
at as you said, inside linebacker, outside linebacker, defensive line,
even corner like. There are so many different ways this
defense could go, and I think it's going to be
a very competitive training camp for that reason.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I had a piece on Vine Diablo, another new addition
to the defense, go up Wednesday afternoon after their second
mini camp practice, and the analogy that I made in
the piece was basically that the defense has been going
undergoing a renovation. It's not a total overhaul. There's still
foundational pieces and pillars holding up the structure, like Jesse
Bates and aj Terrell, but you do have some new
(12:54):
key faces, whether they be the draft picks and all
of those players we expect to be inserted into the defense,
Leonard Floyd or a divine Diablo in the middle. So
like there are familiar faces returning that is going to
mean a lot, but there are also some really important
new pieces and new faces to this defense, one of
them being the defensive coordinator in Jeff Oulbrik. I mean, so,
(13:14):
I think you're spot on in identifying the defense as
a whole. Really is. It's kind of the side of
the ball to watch after last year it felt like
the offense was kind of out side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
No, I completely agree, that'll be. I'm excited for training though.
I'm okay that we're having us Like I'm excited for
training camp.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's okay to feel you can contain multitudes.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
More than one emotion. It's weird, but I'm really excited
for training camp, mainly because mandatory mini camp was just
so low key.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah. Again, I wish we were talking more about football
here for you guys, but like there's one a ton
to ride home about on the gymal Walker look good,
you know. Building back.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Lamar Jackson had an interception on Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
There you go. We got Lamar out here making place.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah that the wide were throwing footballs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
They were Yeah, Drake, Drake looking like a solid lefty out.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And knocked over one of the No one made it
in the trash can, but he knocked over the trash can.
So sorry that part about practice this is that's not
on you at all.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I just as the host, I'm realizing, all right, we're
talking about football thrown in trash cans. We probably will
red light going on in the pocket, Taren, I got it. No,
it's perfect. Let's go ahead and get to my conversation
now with Tory and we will preview train camp. Tory, Hello,
how are you? Thank you for joining me?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, switched out with Taryn Walk. We don't really look similar,
so no one should be confused. We don't really sound
similar either.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So hair darker hair, right, a.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Bit more of a southern accent, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Of a darker complexion. Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, you could
do a horrible terrant impression. You got that on.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I don't think. I don't think I could do a
terrant impression. It would probably just be something sarcastic tagging
on the end, something about Nascar. Yeah, probably be my
go to if I had.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
To guess, Oh, it's probably pretty much.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
She loves Pitbull. I could probably do a good like
Pitbull Dale. Yep, I could probably do that, and she.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Would you bade me into saying that I did. I
don't feel good about No. I gotta be better about
that next time. I think she always the math is
in mathing.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
That's mine and another go to of hers is I'm uncozy,
she I'm cozy when she's uncomfortable, I'm uncozy, which.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, there are some terranism there is, which yeah, true,
lovely and adorable. And this is a great way to
start our our kind of second part of our podcast
and transition here because we just wrapped up talking about
safeties and she was sharing a little bit about why
she's so excited to see DeMarco Hellum's back out on
the field and kind of the role that they might
envision for him, and it just kind of got me
(15:46):
thinking about, all right, what are the camp battles that
we really do expect to play out in training camp.
You know, they've wrapped up OTA's, They've wrapped up mini camps,
so the next time they're going to take the field,
it's gonna be a little bit more real. So let's
go through just kind of the three camp battles we
think could be the biggest. Did you have any difficulty
(16:07):
identifying any of the camp battles you wanted to pick for.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
This So a little yes and no to that, because
I think the main thing that I want people to
know about mandatory mini camp, and honestly, OTA's this whole
spring has been kind of the lack of real live
information that we're getting a mandatory mini camp. The two
days that we were able to see were these glorified walkthroughs,
and there wasn't really a lot going on. There wasn't
(16:32):
really a lot to report on, like.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
A lot of individual drill, a.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Lot of individual stuff, like a lot of guys just
kind of like what like we didn't even see eleven
on eleven teamwork with the ones or the twos, like
we're talking about some of as Raheem Morris said, the
young guys getting out there and running some things around,
and that was pretty much it. There wasn't a lot
to go off of. And so I think because of that,
I could sit here and say, like, yeah, it made
(16:56):
it difficult to pinpoint different you know, training battles that
there could potentially become July and August. But I actually
think I had the opposite reaction a little bit. And
I know we differ on this a little bit because
I knowing what you know about particularly the four draft pick,
the four defensive draft picks that came in, you know
(17:16):
that the plan is the goal is Orhie Morris has
said it, Terry Fonto has said it is that they're
going to play and play early, and you are talking
about them potentially being starters across all levels of the defense.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, there's clear kind of areas where you could pencil
them in, right, That is how the Falcons envision them
early on exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
So when we're talking about like the top three, I
guess camp battles that there could realistically be, we're talking
about where these rookies are actually could slot in. So
we're talking about Xavier Watts at safety, We're talking about
Billy Bowman junior at nickel, We're talking about James Pierce junior,
and Jayleen Walker coming off the edge. Those are the
three that we're going to talk about here today. And
(17:56):
to me, it's because we're trying to pinpoint where these
rookies are going to be and how quickly they can
get there.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, And I mean you make a great point because
it is easy to project, and if we do want
to project and accurately project that those guys kind of
come out of training camp with a starting role, then yeah,
you can look at the defense and kind of be like,
all right, I know where that is gonna where he's
gonna be. I know the second corner, I know the Nickel,
I know our edges, Like really, it just then becomes
(18:24):
kind of like the rotations and the packages and who
is next to each other maybe on the defensive line
or at linebacker. When is Divine Diablo in there versus
Troy Anderson, you know, like some of those nuanced things.
But by and large, yeah, if we're talking just pure
starting eleven, Yeah, the picture becomes clearer if the rookies
do step into those roles as we expect they might offensively,
(18:47):
we kind of know what tox It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I feel bad not talking. I feel like ninety percent
of what I've been talking about this offseason has been
about the defense. But I think that's obviously by design.
We talked at nauseum about the offense last year with
the addition of Karkuz and some Michael Pinnings.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So it's weird how it like ebbs.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
And always does, always does. But I and heck, we're
let's be real, We're still talking about Michael Pennocks Junior
and Kirk Cousins, you know, like that's not stopping. So
but the in terms of just absolute camp battles and
roster construction and who could make the fifty three man roster.
A lot of the eyes, a lot of my eyes
are on on this defensive side of the pall because
to your point, the offensive side of the ball feels set.
(19:24):
It feels as set in stone as I feel like
it has been since the Matt Ryan Julio days. Wow,
like outside of left guard, of course, but I do
because we know left guard, so we know left guard
was like a revolving door. G. I know, I TLG.
That's funny. So I I say all of that to
(19:44):
ultimately say that that's where I do feel like the
defense there are to your point as well, even though
we're talking about potential starters, to me, the more important
conversation is about what do these rotations look like, particularly
across the defensive line, because I do feel like you
feel pretty good about Okay, aj Terrell, Kayden Ellis, Mike Hughes,
(20:08):
Jesse Bates, who's going to be beside Jesse Bates. We'll
get a question, but it's that it's that defensive front
and what their rotation could look like and what the
mixing and matching look like based on the situation at
hand that they're going again, So I'm we're going to
get into all of that I don't want to jump
the gun.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
No, let let's let's use that as an opportunity to
get into We'll start with the defense line and maybe
work our way our way back from there. Do you
want to talk specifically about edge rusher or kind of
the front four slash five, because I do think that
given a hybrid approach, we expect jell fulbreak and remorse.
As they said they will deploy, there's going to be
(20:45):
some variation to probably what a starting week looks like
week to week. Do you want to maybe say, here's
our thoughts for a three to four, and here's our
which would be a five man front right here, two outsides,
and here's kind of a four to three.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, I think let's do that because I think
for me, it's a big part of this is that
I always tell people like, it doesn't freaking matter unless
it's the starting quarterback. It doesn't freaking matter who's starting,
like true it and maybe your offensive line. Like again, offensively,
it's a little bit different because there's not a rotation
per se. You have your guys, your go to guys. Defensively,
(21:20):
it's about who has the highest snap count like that.
I don't care who you run out there for the
first play because for me, I remember one time it
was like very early on in Kyle Pits, after he
had been drafted, he wasn't out there for like the
first play the game because they're running the ball, and
that they wanted a different look. They wanted a more heavy,
(21:41):
heavy look.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Arthursmith, I feel like loved doing that he did.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
And so technically Kyle Pits wasn't a starter that game.
Doesn't mean that he didn't play ninety eight percent of
the offensive snaps, you know, like I think that I
want to make that very clear. So let's talk to
your point. Let's talk about the groupings more so than
maybe even just specific starter.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Let's do the Let's do a five man front first,
because I actually kind of think that that is maybe
where they'll lean a little bit more. I think there's
more versatility and flexibility which matches the personnel out of
a kind of a three four five man front alignment.
So do you want to take a first stab at
five or do you want me to?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I think I can take a stab at it. I
think I do think that I would if it's a.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Maybe like leaders in the Clubhouse, and then who are
the guys who could break into that house.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So obviously you can't talk about the front without talking
about the two first round draft picks Jalen Walker and
James christ Junior. But I'm curious to see how they
match up with the Leonard Floyd, Arnold ab Katie Braylen
Trice when he comes back. Like to me, I feel
very strongly that you have. I feel like Braylen Trice
(22:51):
is more of this like bigger guy. So for if
it's a run stopping the situation, she need a.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Bigger end kind of player.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, I also know that they're trying to do some
stuff with Zach Harrison, Brandon Dorlis. So even though we're
talking about like what this five man front could be,
it's any combination of this stuff. If you're needing long
and lanky, you're putting Leonard Floyd out there, and you're
putting James Spears juniors to set the edge. But if
you're wanting more of these like run stoppers, Braylan Trice,
(23:20):
maybe Jalen Walker, who can get sideline to sideline really quick.
Like So for for all of that, what's really complicated
is is like there's not a there's not an answer here,
you know, because I don't think that it matters. Like,
let's say week one, the Falcons run the five front,
the five man front that they run out there is
(23:41):
Leonard Floyd, Arnold, ab Katie, David Anyamata, Zach Harrison, Rugeroro. Like,
let's say that's the five that they run out there
for the first two plays of game one week one. Yep,
that doesn't mean that two plays later, it's not gonna
be Zach Harrison, James Spears, Junior, Jalen Walker, Kayden ellis
coming up in between, you know, David Anyamata and Rukro Like,
(24:04):
there are so many variables to this front and the
attack style that they want to be. I know, a
couple of weeks ago, we talked with Taran about or
I guess I talked with tarn about what you are.
We had you there in the back of our minds.
Anytime I make a dad joke, I'm like, oh, we.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Love that the corner, that's your brand.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But we were talking about, you know, realistic expectations for
ed Rushers year one in the rookie year, and I
kind of said, it's like, okay, yes, the Falcons as
an organization are dead last in pass rush stats in
total sack numbers over the last five six years. To
break into even the middle quartile of sacks and pressures
(24:53):
across the league, I think it's going to be everyone.
It's not like we're just sitting here being like James
Chris Junior is gonna get ten sacks and it's going
to fundament change what the Falcons are doing past rush wise,
It's okay, maybe he gets three, Maybe Jalyn Walker gets three,
maybe kay Nellis gets five, Maybe Arnold ib Katie gets six.
You know like, I think, if you have these waves,
I'll take that. And to me, it doesn't matter who's starting.
(25:14):
It's just as long as they're getting after the quarterback.
I did not answer your question at all.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Now that I've been rambling, I was literally about to
be like, okay, so are we gonna go with Leonard
Floyd and Zach Harrison.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I feel awful that I've been talking for maybe five
minutes straight and never once did I answer the question.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But you laid out. You laid out why maybe even
thinking about it in terms of starters and backups, at
least when it comes to the defensive line and the
front seven, maybe kind of like a fool's errand yeah,
because everybody's going to have their role, you know, like
Eddie Goldman, I don't think we would have if we
look back on the twenty twenty four season in five years,
I don't think people are gonna be like, oh, yeah,
Eddie Goldman was a starting defensive lineman for the Falcons.
(25:56):
He started some games last year for Atlanta like he
was a star. So that that is kind of the
big asterisk when it comes to a defensive front. However,
that being said, I think you're five that you called
out at least day one makes sense in there. And
I think that James Pierce, out of the two first
(26:17):
round rookies, I think is probably more likely to start
in a purely situational role and just know exactly what
he's doing. I think Jalen Walker, as much as they
say they're starting him off on the edge, like we
know what he can do, and he's looked really good
out there like that has been kind of my takeaway
I think from mini camp is Jalen Walker looks solid.
Like he was leading the defensive line individual rust drills.
He showed a lot more flexibility than I thought he
(26:39):
did on tape, and that kind of stood out to me.
I was like, Wow, he really bends around the bag nicely.
So if we're talking any rookies, I think he maybe
has one of the strongest chances of cracking that starting lineup.
So I like the five D laid out there and
maybe even adding Jalen Walker as that kind of like
sixth man. Could he be the first rotation with Arnold
Levy Katie.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I think it's interesting too because it's like who ultimately
steps up within the first five or six weeks in
this the way that they want to play, in the
style that Jeff Olbrick wants to play in. I think
it's going to be a big because of the way
that training camp is these days, and you know, TBD
on whether or not starters are actually or anyone is
going to play in the preseason. I think that's a
little TBD at this point. I do think that it's
(27:22):
going to be probably five or six weeks into the
season before we really feel like we know what this
defense is in the way that they want to play.
We've heard from different guys about you've heard it at nauseum,
the attack stile front that they want to have and
it's like, but what does that mean? And I thought
Ruker Roro explained it very well comparing it to last year.
He was like, last year, you know, you're reacting based
(27:46):
on you're having to think about you know, Okay, if
they do this, we got to do this. If they
do this, And he was like, that's not necessarily what
things are now. It's a bit more simplistic.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, you're not diagnosing, you're just deploying.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
You're just it's proactive, not reactive. Is the main thing
that I feel like I've gotten about what this front
could be from these players and what the style is
the problem right now, they don't have pads on. We
have no idea what this front.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Is going to look like.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
You know, Like I'm so you're kind of talking in
this hypothetic.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
We're still talking like yeah, theoretical, hypothetical, all the edicals,
all of them. But it is exciting. And this is
the last thing that I think we can talk about
with the Front seven really quickly, with the fore man
look and how when they talk about versatility, like this
is what gets me excited and it totally falls in
line with the hypothetical theory. But let's say they're actually
(28:38):
set up really well for like a fore Man front
if it included say Zach Harrison on one of the ends.
Then you've got Ruke and David in the middle, and
you've got Brandon dor List maybe on the other side.
Like that's a nice solid four that are big enough
to defend the run but can also attack as you
said in that single gap style. But then behind them
you got Caden Ellis, you got Divine Diablo, and you
(28:58):
got Jalen Walker. Because now you're in a four to three, right,
you got three linebackers, all of whom got some nice
speed and athleticism. You walk Jalen Walker, you can really
quickly bump somebody down and turn that into a five
to two. Look like, there is so much flexibility with
all of these guys. So again, it's probably a little
bit of a moot point to be looking at them
as as starters and back.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Ups, I mean, and like drop Devon Diablo.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Back, like yea, you know there's the former safety. Former safety,
we have like fifteen safeties on this roster. You want
to just talk about the safety that's our next camback.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's talk about safeties.
I think the big the big part of this is
where I think where DeMarco Helms fits into this now
that he's coming back from indury. I know you and
Teraryn talked a lot about that. I'm really excited to
have him back because I thought that he was on
such an upward trajectory and I felt like this staff
specifically really valued him, and even though he's a seventh
(29:48):
round draft pick, They're like, get this guy out there.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And if if he brings that physical element, you could
argue that's kind of like one of the few missing
ingredients for Atlanta's defense when you know, we talk about
the versatility and some of the ballhawk nature that like
Jesse Batesman don't really have that like pure just hammer dumper. Yeah,
they don't really have the Willie Moe or the Keanu
Neale of defense's past. To Marco Hellms turns into that,
(30:11):
I wouldn't be mad at it.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
That would be a w for this front office. That's
for sure a big draft win. But I also think
that obviously you go and you get Xavier Wats, and
you go and get Xavier Watts for a reason. And
I know that it's a bit of a mixed bag
again because we haven't necessarily seen him truly alongside Jesse
(30:33):
Bates in the traditional sense. They're not going at one
hundred and ten percent. We're not really seeing eleven on eleven.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
He was mostly actually kind of like working on some
individual things right off to the side, not in like
an injury sense or anything, just getting some like pure
skilled technical stuff done.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And that was something that even Rahee Morris on Wednesday,
he was talking about James Pearce Junior because he also
was one of those guys that was having some like
one on one technique stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You'm talking a lot, would you, Gray? Yeah, Floyd on Tuesday. Yeah,
there just like during special teams when everybody else was working,
he was just locked in a conversation. I was like, Hey,
that's great, like getting his year. Jerry Gray brought up
Javon Curse when talking about like who in the league
is talking about Javon Curse nineteen ninety nine draft yea, yeah,
Jerry Gray is so like, tell him stories, talk his
(31:18):
zero off.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah. So it's interesting because I think because of the
nature of we haven't really seen as much. I I'm
still penciling in Xavier Watts to be a guy who
slots in alongside Jesse Bates. The issue is is like
how quickly can he get there?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
True? Because I could totally see a world where, yes,
Xavier Wats play is a starter for like twelve or
thirteen games this season, but in week one it is
Jordan Fuller out there, correct, you know, like I could
see that being a reality.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
And I think with the way that this, I mean
you kind of saw it with Ruke Roro. Let's use
him as an example. Last year he was a healthy
scratch for the first four games of the season because
essentially what Raheem Moore say is we don't need him right, Like,
we have a lot of depth. Do we have Grady
Jared out there or David an Nimai. Everybody's good, everybody's healthy.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And so why rush him out there? When we put
him out there, he'll know exactly what you're doing. We'll
have seen it for four weeks on practice fields at
a high level. Yeah, It's like they'll know.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah. So it almost makes me wonder if someone like
an Xavier Watts could follow a similar not saying that
he'll be a healthy scratch and like we won't see him.
I don't think that at all. But to your point
about Jordan Fuller being the vet guy in there, being
somebody who has a lot of experience under his belt,
who's played in some different systems, like that could be
(32:33):
the easy safe option early, but it's ultimately about where
Xavier Watts gets to buy week seven, Week eight.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, but I think by and large, like the safety
group is gonna be a little bit like the defensive
line too, where you can mix and match based on
some matchups. All Right, they're playing more physical. If DeMarco
Hellms fits into that role, we're gonna start bringing him
in there, maybe a little bit more than Exavier Wat.
I'm in the box, yeah, because like Jesse can do
all of it. Yeah, you can almost kind of like
(33:01):
plug and play that second piece to like deploy them
as the as they need to fit the matchup that
you're going up again. So I think the safety situation
is fascinating. I also think it's going to play into
the nickel situation because like you can roll them down,
you can have a big nickel. Kevin King, I don't
even know what position he is. He's kind of like
just a little bit of everything, corner, hybrid safety nickel.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah, honestly, the best the best part of your depth
is Kevin King in my opinion, because I do think
he can do anything you really need him to. Injuries
are going to happen. It's the NFL, so you need
to be able to have somebody who is a jack
of always.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
A super utility player in baseball. He's like Martin Proto.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Right, Yeah, great, grate pool. I loved Martin Proto when
he was with the Right. Yeah, he like just would
do everything for you. Hey, have you ever played first base?
All right, we'll suit up. You're going out there, head man.
But I think in terms of what Kevin King, Kevin
King can be in any room in the secondary. He
can work with the safety, so you can work with
the Nickels, you can work with the corners, like wherever
(34:02):
you can plug and play him. Well, it's an asset
to have him on this fifty three man roster. I
think it's why they brought him back. It gives them
the flexibility, especially when they're thinking about who they were
drafting and what type of player they're gonna get. It
was like, okay, well, if you get a corner, you
can slot, Mike Cues in the slot, not to say
slot seven times. But I think that's what's really great
(34:23):
about Kevin King is the ability to do a little
bit of everything and cross train in that way. But
in terms of to move us forward like a little
let's let's talk about the Nickel a little bit, because
I think that is one of the biggest question marks
I have is whether who who is going to emerge there?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It might be the most pure can't battle.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yes, yeah, yes, it's and I think it's between if
we're just going a pure Nickel. Look, we're not talking
like just.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
No, yeah, just like the guys in a typical NIKEL
slot corner.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, it's it's between three three guys. You're talking about
d Alford, who's been the starter at Nickel the last
last two years. You have Clark Phillips, the third, who
primarily was working last year outside and he did get
some reps when Mike Cues was hurt outside opposite AJ Trarell.
And then you have Billy Bowman Junior, who is a
recent draft pick. And those are the three guys that
(35:16):
I think all of them are in this conversation, and
I at this point in time don't know who I'm
putting above the other or even if nickel is going
to be the package that they predominantly sit in.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, right, like that type of nickel again, because like
that you talked about, Yeah, as we've talked about, it
reminds me a lot of twenty nineteen or twenty twenty
when you had demarco'casey and Kean O'Neil and Ricardo Allen
and it was like, Okay, yeah, we don't necessarily need
Brian Poole because I think he was actually gone that
off season and they could kind of manufacture that big
(35:53):
nickel look and same type of skill set. So yeah,
there is a chance that they don't really have either
of those any of those three out there, and they
do have DeMarco helms with Jordan Fuller and Jesse Bates
and Javier Watts. Yeah exactly. So of those three, though,
I think that the I think right now the leaders
is de offered, and I think the race is kind
(36:14):
of Billy Bowman's to win or lose. I think how
he performs in training camp will either help him secure
that job as the starter, because I watched him closely
kind of on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's funny that you mentioned that, because I knew were
going to get into this. One of the first things
that Will told me after we got off the practice
field the other day because you were specifically watching the rookies,
so everybody.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Goes that was my assignment.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
That was design who's watching the rookies and giving like
a progress report on where they are and what they're doing.
And the first thing he said was, it's really easy
to watch Billy Bowman junior just just looking at him. Yeah,
that is word for literally what Will said.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So we'll just enjoy watching that young man practice.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Like what stuck out to you.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
He's like fiery. You just kind of feel the energy
resonating off him. He had a crop top jersey and
and then like tucked the under armour up underneath it.
So he was just like full sporting some midriff, which
you know it's hot out there on June tenth as
they were practicing, so hey, go for it, but just
quick to react kind of flies downhill swagger, which I
(37:16):
think kind of you need in that spot. That would
be an interesting little like episode is just ranking the
positions where like you need the most of the least swagger.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh, like we should absolutely does a.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Kicker need to have the most swagger on the team
or the.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Leastwager on the great question, right question?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Because I think a nickel corner like you if you
got a honey Badger, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Outside baker, outside corner wide receiver, just off the top
of outside corner wide receiver and then nickel, Yeah, those
are the ones that need the most swag.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I think I think we're onto something here. But yeah,
so he definitely brings that to the table and and
we have It was interesting when Rahee Morris was kind
of singling him out talking about the learning style of
all the rookies, and he was just like, and then
Billy Bowman kind of does his own thing, but you
can tell that he is asking everybody about everything and
just trying to learn everywhere he goes. I think that's
(38:06):
a pretty big green flag if you're looking at like,
are you going to earn your role in training camp?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So I'm excited to see what he brings. But right
now the Alford probably has the spot. Can Billy Bowman,
you know, knock him out of that or even Clark
Phillips As he continues to advance in his career, he
was our camp champ last year.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I was just about to say, like Clark Phillips is
for the last two years or three years, however long
he's been here. Now he always pops in training camp.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, always't to talking about speed. I underestimated how fast
he actually is.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, in his vertical like he's going up against Drake
London and Drake has you know, a bunch of inches
on him, so I oftentimes he just has this flashiness
to him that I don't think many people have seen
in season, but I feel like I see it all
the time in training camp, and I'm kind of like,
where's the disconnect, Like why can't we see this flashiness
(38:57):
in the season, And so it's kind of a toss up.
That's why I think this, to your point, is the
truest and most pure camp battle that we're gonna see
going into July, August and into the preseason.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Man, I can't wait, it's almost here. We're gonna keep
an eye on all of these. So don't worry. Even
though we say Nickel might be the most pure camp battle,
We're still going to be watching closely to the third
running back position and see, you know, is it going
to be Jase McClellan or Carlos Washington. I have my thoughts,
but we've got plenty of time to cover those not
on today's episode. Before we wrap up, though, it is
Father's Day this weekend, So Happy Father's dayed all the
(39:33):
dads out there. Father, I am a father, Yes, thank
you Liam for making me a daddy. But you grew
up as the daughter of a football coach. So I
just thought it would be a fun way to close
this out to see if you have any memorable like
Father's Day moments that you had with your dad.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So, oh gosh, there are so many, but I think
just recently my dad. And also so I'm the oldest
of three, three girls, and so we used to joke
when I was younger that dad, because he was around
football players so much, he had too much testosterone, like
at work, and so he'd come home and he could
only handle estrogen like that was the whole thing, is,
(40:13):
like we would joke. He's the best girl dad. I
can't say enough great things about about him. But something
special that's happened in the last month is my little sister,
who was eighteen. She's a big golfer. She won a
state championship back in May, and my dad, yeah, dad,
it was her coach. He was her golf coach and
(40:34):
he actually when she won, when they won that state,
that golf state championship, my dad had actually done something
that I don't know very many people who have done this,
but he won a state championship coaching all three of
his daughters.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
So he cut yes, that's so cool. Yeah, so he
could you win softball?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I'm a four time softball state champion in the state
of Georgia. Let's go yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I thought you knew that.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I mean maybe, but like, that's incredible. That blows my mind.
I didn't realize I was sitting here with softball royalty.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
So my dad coached me my junior and senior year.
We won both of those years. And then he coached
my middle sister, katherin Grace for four years. They won
I think three state championships together.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And then his dad's like the Bill Walsh of Georgia
High School, No real.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And then he when Charlesy, my little sister, when she
started to pick up golf in like middle school, he
would go golfing with her, and that he decided to
help with the high school and the girls team there,
and then they won a state championship this past May.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
So look out.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I don't know if that's the comparison we want to make,
but hey, but so it's I say all that to
say that, like he's had these moments. We have these
pictures and maybe I'll post them at some point, but
there are these pictures of I'm hugging him after we
won in softball, My kath and Grace is hugging him
after we won in softball, and then Charlesea won was
hugging him after she won.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Golf for him.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So he has one at least one state championship with
all three of his daughters.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, that's such an awesome just memory, and that would
make me so proud. You know, one day, I'm never
lucky for Liam to win one blue ribbon in a
swim meet and you're like, yeah, yeah, you guys did
at the highest level. That's that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah. So to share that with him and to kind
of see this like full circle moment of all three
of us have had that, it's like, I don't know
anybody else who has that story. So that that, to
me is the epitome of like girl dad energy, like
Happy Father's Day to my dad and all of the
state championships that we were able to break him.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. Yeah, Happy
Father's Day to your dad. Happy Father's stayed all the
dad's out there. I think I think we've gone on
for long enough today, so we will end it there
for Tory mclaney, I am Will McFadden. Thank you guys
so much for listening and watching, and we will see
you soon.
Dirty Birds. What's up? And welcome back to the Atlanta
Falcons podcast network. I'm your host, Will mcfatten. I'm joined
today by Arren Walk and we are going to talk
about Falcons Mini Camp. But first let's do some quick
kind of programming reminders. We had a discussion of podcast
with Michael Vick recently, so please go check that out
on YouTube on Atlanta Falcons dot com if you have
(00:22):
not already. We've had some excellent coverage of mini Camp,
just photo video, written content by Arron herself, by me,
by Tory mclaney following along with the team, So please
go check all of that stuff out if you are
curious about what has been going on in Flowery Branch.
But Terren, how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm good. I can't believe off season program is over?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I know right, it feels like it just like we
were just kind of getting warmed up for it or
ramped up for it, and now all of a sudden,
it's over. Now we're gone.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
When Raheems was when Raheem Moore is said today like
the five week break is coming up already, it's about
to be I mean it is June and not about
to be. It is June. Yeah, that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I mean weirdly, like, Yeah, this offseason feels faster, and
it's been, on the one hand, like less busy because
you haven't had a coaching change. There's been quarterback stability,
even though we've been talking about the quarterback position a lot,
and we will continue to do so in this conversation.
But yeah, it's kind of flown right by. So let's
(01:26):
go ahead and get into what all we learned over
the last couple of days and really going back to
just kind of the OTA sessions in general. What's been
kind of the big theme for Atlanta so far over
the last few weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Oh gosh. I think it's mainly been emphasism on the
developing guys because they want those who are new to
Atlanta to feel comfortable in their role in what they're
supposed to be doing on a day in and day
out basis come training camp. So it's the simple things
of like when do I need to arrive for practice,
(02:01):
what are we doing during practice? What am I supposed
to do in this specific drill? When can I eat?
It's simple things like that, but when you enter a
brand new program, that's overwhelming It's just like if you
enter a new school or a new job, you need
to learn the ins and outs, and now is the
time to do that, as opposed to training camp, where
it's like, all right, we got a buckle and it's
time to go.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah. I think that's a great analogy and it's one
that I was prepared to make myself. Is school, Yeah
got cha, Yeah, you beat me too it I love that.
But when you kind of are going through that the
first week in a new school or a new job, yeah,
you kind of need somebody like latch onto somebody like
one of those fish on a shark where you're like, hey,
where's the cafeteria? Hey, like, oh, is that meeting right now?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, Like I hadn't accepted it yet, so it didn't
pop up on my reminder like those little things. Because
when training camp kicks off here at the end of July,
everything is like full go until the end of the season.
So when you're in a drill, the minutes, the precious
seconds that these players and coaches have out there on
the field, they matter. So you can't be falling behind,
(03:03):
you can't be screwing up, you can't really be now
of course you can. You can sit there and say, hey,
remind me of this, give me some feedback what am
I doing here? But you got to know what you're doing.
And so that's kind of what this time of year
is like for a lot of these young guys.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's syllabus week. Yeah, like after syllabus week, you can't
drop the class. You can't change your class schedule. You
can't be like, oh what am I majoring in? I
don't know. Actually, my end, my analogy went too far.
I was like, what else would they do? They can't
also drop out of the team. I guess they can,
but they won't.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
No, So yeah, it's it's figuring. But it's for the
coaches too, right, it's like learning, all right, what do
I have in this guy? And where can he improve?
And then what do we want to your students five
six weeks? Yeah? Figure out? Okay, let's now that we've
gotten eyeballs on them, we've gotten to lay hands on
them and kind of work with them a little bit.
All right, how do we want to tweet and adjust?
So the other main thing that kind of was the
(03:56):
story because a lot of the stuff on the field
that well, we'll get to here in a second, a
little bit lighter than I think you would usually see
in a training camp practice or you know, even during
the season. The Kirk Cousins was here for mandatory mini
camp and that was the biggest storyline probably for Atlanta
all off season and leading up too Mini camp. Would
he be here? Not only was he here, he spoke
(04:18):
to the media afterwards, what did he have to say?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I think Kirk handled the media the best he could
with the position he is in. He didn't rock any
boats or cause any waves when he knows this is
the reality that he is in and whether or not
he likes it, he has to accept it because it's
not like he can just go plug and play himself
(04:41):
somewhere else. There are other parties involved that have to
agree to say a trade. And so at this point
Kirk said those conversations for for January, February, March, even April.
But like we said at the beginning of this podcast, somehow, someway,
it is June, and he knows that the options out
there no longer exist. Really, I mean, you saw Aaron
(05:03):
Rodgers finally made a decision and is with the Pittsburgh Steelers,
and so there's really nowhere you can really put him.
That is not the Atlanta Falcons, and I think he
just has to accept that and if anything, embrace it.
And so he said he will be moving forward. He
wants this team to win. He even was like, come February,
(05:24):
I hope we're lifting a Lombardi Trophy. And then when
it came to Michael Pennick Junior, He's like, I want
to help him as much as I can, but I'm
not going to overstep. I'm not going to be constantly
in his ear where it's just too many voices talking
to him at once. If he needs help, he knows
he can come to me. And Penick said that too,
like it seemed very professional. Again, this is like what
(05:45):
we're seeing. Who knows what goes on inside like or
behind closed doors. But from the perspective of Michael Pennock
Junior and Kirk Cousins speaking to the media on Tuesday,
they all know where they stand and for better or worse,
they're all okay with it.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I thought he kind of
handled it as well as you could expect him to.
And it's really the exact same thing about the way
that he handled when he was benched, and he starts
to the media as well. It's kind of like, I
don't know what you expect him to say. He's a professional,
Like there's nothing, yeah, right, but there's nothing that he
can say that's going to make that any better or
different or maybe kind of like change it so that
(06:23):
he's getting his version of the It just is what
it is. And yet he's still standing there saying what
I truly believe he believes, because that has been the
case for Kirk Cousins throughout his entire career, is that
he's kind of been that role model, player, teammate, and
maybe mentor.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Now, if he came out to the media and started
just slandering people left and right, that's only going to
hurt his career. That's going to hurt his chances of
say a team does become available and looking to trade,
because who would want that? Who would want that in
their organization? So I think the way he's handling it
is best not only for the Falcons but also himself.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, but like, I don't even know if it is
that calculated. It certainly could be, right, but I.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Don't think it is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But I think it's it's a situation where the calculated
approach and the genuine approach probably from him as a person,
just happened overlap there and he's right in the middle
of that then diagram, right. But I thought that Raheem
actually had a statement where he said, you know, Kirk
is not in the business of kind of like making
Michael Pennox's life difficult. And I do think that that
is kind of the best way to view the whole thing.
(07:28):
And Kirk said, I'm here to kind of control what
I can control, and for him that that is a
smaller kind of piece of the pie than maybe it
was in January and February. And so that is kind
of how I think we've arrived at this situation where
he's here. He's the backup quarterback. Sure, I fully expect
him to go out there and training camp and not
necessarily just like hand the ball over to Michael Pennox
(07:49):
and be like totally yours. Now they've said he's the
starter moving forward, So until the coaches say anything different,
that is the way things are. But I expect Kirk
to go out there and play in training camp like
he's coming for a job.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's football. You never know what's going to happen. Like
we say, Michael Pennock Junior is the starter right now.
Who knows what comes to August, what comes to October, November, December.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
January, everything, Everything can happen because the season takes its
own shape and form. Last year, there was a plan
this time of year and ultimately that plan didn't come
to fruition the entire way. So yeah, again, anything can
can happen. That's what makes this sport so much fun
to follow.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
The worst thing Kirk could do is not be prepared.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yep, yep, totally well said. And I don't expect him
to not be well prepared because again, we know about
Kirk Cousins at this point in time, but who maybe
do our listeners not know so much about who stood
out on the field to you during mini camp.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Look, I'm going to hang my hat on this guy
making a big twenty twenty five return, and that is
safety to Marco Helms. Yes, we both went to Alabama,
but that is not why. I just think I remember
his rookie season that he just progressively got better and
better and what was he a seventh round draft pick,
(09:06):
but he had starting opportunities at the end of that year,
and then you come into his second season and he
was doing really well in training camp, but then got
injured and I think it was the first preseason game,
and that took him out for the entire season. And
we didn't know at the time it was going to
be the entire season, but it was. And I talked
(09:27):
to DeMarco today and he was pretty open about it,
being like that was difficult. That was the first time
I've had to go a whole year without football. But
if anything, that's kind of just pumped him up more
for this season because he was like, I was so
excited to put my jersey back on. It's good to
be back on the field. He may not be one
hundred percent right now, but you don't have to because
it's the off season program. But he said he will
(09:48):
be by training camp, and I think just to reiterate
that it's not just me excited about him too. Jesse
Bates was over with the media today too, and he's like, honestly,
DeMarco is the aggressor in the safety room. He is
the one who's like, I want to hit somebody all
the time. He's like bouncing off the walls to do
it right. Now essentially, and they nicknamed him Bam Bam,
(10:12):
and I was like, Jesse, does he like that nickname?
He goes, no, it makes him more angry, but that
makes it even better.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, if there's one person you want angry on the defense,
it's a guy named Bam bam. Right. I want to know,
is there are pebbles like he loose pebbles on the defense.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
We're not going to get into naming all of them.
You and I tried making up nicknames for different positions earlier.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's amazing content. We're not giving that away, Terren.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We're not going to name everyone else off after Flintstone's characters.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
We'll leave it.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Not yet. It is Flintstones's right, everybody, stay tuned. Yeah, okay,
we got it, Jets.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I really want to make sure that that reference.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Not ahead of the time. No. I think that's a
great that's a great pick because DeMarco Hellams is, like
people forget Justin Simmons was not on the roster because
Marco Hellams was a player. I think they envisioned taking
that next step. Now, who knows, maybe they still make
the Simons signing. If Helms is like, that's all in
the past, and it's hypothetical and everything changes based.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
On you have Jordan Fuller now too, so it's not
just automatically.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, So, like, is that the safety group is crowded?
There are a few different groups here, like inside linebacker
kind of a similar deal, Nickel corner kind of a
similar deal. Like there are some depths where there is suddenly, yeah,
some some depth. So like I guess as we wrap
up this conversation and you guys can stick around for
the second part of this episode where I'll be joined
by Tory McLane and we're going to kind of preview
(11:34):
training camp. But tarn the last kind of question for
you is, like, is that safety group kind of the
number one position you're looking forward to seeing in training camp?
And are there maybe some others that have kind of
caught your eye?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I would have to say safety is number one just
because of this investment in a single player, like curious
how he's going to bounce back from his injury and
you're three. But at the same time, I think it's
just the defense as a whole because so many efforts
have been put in this offseason to bolster that unit
in depth and in talent that I'm curious what that
(12:13):
starting lineup is going to look like in general, because
there are so many options not just at safety, but
at as you said, inside linebacker, outside linebacker, defensive line,
even corner like. There are so many different ways this
defense could go, and I think it's going to be
a very competitive training camp for that reason.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I had a piece on Vine Diablo, another new addition
to the defense, go up Wednesday afternoon after their second
mini camp practice, and the analogy that I made in
the piece was basically that the defense has been going
undergoing a renovation. It's not a total overhaul. There's still
foundational pieces and pillars holding up the structure, like Jesse
Bates and aj Terrell, but you do have some new
(12:54):
key faces, whether they be the draft picks and all
of those players we expect to be inserted into the defense,
Leonard Floyd or a divine Diablo in the middle. So
like there are familiar faces returning that is going to
mean a lot, but there are also some really important
new pieces and new faces to this defense, one of
them being the defensive coordinator in Jeff Oulbrik. I mean, so,
(13:14):
I think you're spot on in identifying the defense as
a whole. Really is. It's kind of the side of
the ball to watch after last year it felt like
the offense was kind of out side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
No, I completely agree, that'll be. I'm excited for training though.
I'm okay that we're having us Like I'm excited for
training camp.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's okay to feel you can contain multitudes.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
More than one emotion. It's weird, but I'm really excited
for training camp, mainly because mandatory mini camp was just
so low key.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah. Again, I wish we were talking more about football
here for you guys, but like there's one a ton
to ride home about on the gymal Walker look good,
you know. Building back.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Lamar Jackson had an interception on Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
There you go. We got Lamar out here making place.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah that the wide were throwing footballs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
They were Yeah, Drake, Drake looking like a solid lefty out.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And knocked over one of the No one made it
in the trash can, but he knocked over the trash can.
So sorry that part about practice this is that's not
on you at all.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I just as the host, I'm realizing, all right, we're
talking about football thrown in trash cans. We probably will
red light going on in the pocket, Taren, I got it. No,
it's perfect. Let's go ahead and get to my conversation
now with Tory and we will preview train camp. Tory, Hello,
how are you? Thank you for joining me?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, switched out with Taryn Walk. We don't really look similar,
so no one should be confused. We don't really sound
similar either.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So hair darker hair, right, a.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Bit more of a southern accent, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Of a darker complexion. Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, you could
do a horrible terrant impression. You got that on.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I don't think. I don't think I could do a
terrant impression. It would probably just be something sarcastic tagging
on the end, something about Nascar. Yeah, probably be my
go to if I had.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
To guess, Oh, it's probably pretty much.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
She loves Pitbull. I could probably do a good like
Pitbull Dale. Yep, I could probably do that, and she.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Would you bade me into saying that I did. I
don't feel good about No. I gotta be better about
that next time. I think she always the math is
in mathing.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
That's mine and another go to of hers is I'm uncozy,
she I'm cozy when she's uncomfortable, I'm uncozy, which.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, there are some terranism there is, which yeah, true,
lovely and adorable. And this is a great way to
start our our kind of second part of our podcast
and transition here because we just wrapped up talking about
safeties and she was sharing a little bit about why
she's so excited to see DeMarco Hellum's back out on
the field and kind of the role that they might
envision for him, and it just kind of got me
(15:46):
thinking about, all right, what are the camp battles that
we really do expect to play out in training camp.
You know, they've wrapped up OTA's, They've wrapped up mini camps,
so the next time they're going to take the field,
it's gonna be a little bit more real. So let's
go through just kind of the three camp battles we
think could be the biggest. Did you have any difficulty
(16:07):
identifying any of the camp battles you wanted to pick for.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
This So a little yes and no to that, because
I think the main thing that I want people to
know about mandatory mini camp, and honestly, OTA's this whole
spring has been kind of the lack of real live
information that we're getting a mandatory mini camp. The two
days that we were able to see were these glorified walkthroughs,
and there wasn't really a lot going on. There wasn't
(16:32):
really a lot to report on, like.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
A lot of individual drill, a.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Lot of individual stuff, like a lot of guys just
kind of like what like we didn't even see eleven
on eleven teamwork with the ones or the twos, like
we're talking about some of as Raheem Morris said, the
young guys getting out there and running some things around,
and that was pretty much it. There wasn't a lot
to go off of. And so I think because of that,
I could sit here and say, like, yeah, it made
(16:56):
it difficult to pinpoint different you know, training battles that
there could potentially become July and August. But I actually
think I had the opposite reaction a little bit. And
I know we differ on this a little bit because
I knowing what you know about particularly the four draft pick,
the four defensive draft picks that came in, you know
(17:16):
that the plan is the goal is Orhie Morris has
said it, Terry Fonto has said it is that they're
going to play and play early, and you are talking
about them potentially being starters across all levels of the defense.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, there's clear kind of areas where you could pencil
them in, right, That is how the Falcons envision them
early on exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
So when we're talking about like the top three, I
guess camp battles that there could realistically be, we're talking
about where these rookies are actually could slot in. So
we're talking about Xavier Watts at safety, We're talking about
Billy Bowman junior at nickel, We're talking about James Pierce junior,
and Jayleen Walker coming off the edge. Those are the
three that we're going to talk about here today. And
(17:56):
to me, it's because we're trying to pinpoint where these
rookies are going to be and how quickly they can
get there.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, And I mean you make a great point because
it is easy to project, and if we do want
to project and accurately project that those guys kind of
come out of training camp with a starting role, then yeah,
you can look at the defense and kind of be like,
all right, I know where that is gonna where he's
gonna be. I know the second corner, I know the Nickel,
I know our edges, Like really, it just then becomes
(18:24):
kind of like the rotations and the packages and who
is next to each other maybe on the defensive line
or at linebacker. When is Divine Diablo in there versus
Troy Anderson, you know, like some of those nuanced things.
But by and large, yeah, if we're talking just pure
starting eleven, Yeah, the picture becomes clearer if the rookies
do step into those roles as we expect they might offensively,
(18:47):
we kind of know what tox It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I feel bad not talking. I feel like ninety percent
of what I've been talking about this offseason has been
about the defense. But I think that's obviously by design.
We talked at nauseum about the offense last year with
the addition of Karkuz and some Michael Pinnings.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So it's weird how it like ebbs.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
And always does, always does. But I and heck, we're
let's be real, We're still talking about Michael Pennocks Junior
and Kirk Cousins, you know, like that's not stopping. So
but the in terms of just absolute camp battles and
roster construction and who could make the fifty three man roster.
A lot of the eyes, a lot of my eyes
are on on this defensive side of the pall because
to your point, the offensive side of the ball feels set.
(19:24):
It feels as set in stone as I feel like
it has been since the Matt Ryan Julio days. Wow,
like outside of left guard, of course, but I do
because we know left guard, so we know left guard
was like a revolving door. G. I know, I TLG.
That's funny. So I I say all of that to
(19:44):
ultimately say that that's where I do feel like the
defense there are to your point as well, even though
we're talking about potential starters, to me, the more important
conversation is about what do these rotations look like, particularly
across the defensive line, because I do feel like you
feel pretty good about Okay, aj Terrell, Kayden Ellis, Mike Hughes,
(20:08):
Jesse Bates, who's going to be beside Jesse Bates. We'll
get a question, but it's that it's that defensive front
and what their rotation could look like and what the
mixing and matching look like based on the situation at
hand that they're going again, So I'm we're going to
get into all of that I don't want to jump
the gun.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
No, let let's let's use that as an opportunity to
get into We'll start with the defense line and maybe
work our way our way back from there. Do you
want to talk specifically about edge rusher or kind of
the front four slash five, because I do think that
given a hybrid approach, we expect jell fulbreak and remorse.
As they said they will deploy, there's going to be
(20:45):
some variation to probably what a starting week looks like
week to week. Do you want to maybe say, here's
our thoughts for a three to four, and here's our
which would be a five man front right here, two outsides,
and here's kind of a four to three.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, I think let's do that because I think
for me, it's a big part of this is that
I always tell people like, it doesn't freaking matter unless
it's the starting quarterback. It doesn't freaking matter who's starting,
like true it and maybe your offensive line. Like again, offensively,
it's a little bit different because there's not a rotation
per se. You have your guys, your go to guys. Defensively,
(21:20):
it's about who has the highest snap count like that.
I don't care who you run out there for the
first play because for me, I remember one time it
was like very early on in Kyle Pits, after he
had been drafted, he wasn't out there for like the
first play the game because they're running the ball, and
that they wanted a different look. They wanted a more heavy,
(21:41):
heavy look.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Arthursmith, I feel like loved doing that he did.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
And so technically Kyle Pits wasn't a starter that game.
Doesn't mean that he didn't play ninety eight percent of
the offensive snaps, you know, like I think that I
want to make that very clear. So let's talk to
your point. Let's talk about the groupings more so than
maybe even just specific starter.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Let's do the Let's do a five man front first,
because I actually kind of think that that is maybe
where they'll lean a little bit more. I think there's
more versatility and flexibility which matches the personnel out of
a kind of a three four five man front alignment.
So do you want to take a first stab at
five or do you want me to?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I think I can take a stab at it. I
think I do think that I would if it's a.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Maybe like leaders in the Clubhouse, and then who are
the guys who could break into that house.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So obviously you can't talk about the front without talking
about the two first round draft picks Jalen Walker and
James christ Junior. But I'm curious to see how they
match up with the Leonard Floyd, Arnold ab Katie Braylen
Trice when he comes back. Like to me, I feel
very strongly that you have. I feel like Braylen Trice
(22:51):
is more of this like bigger guy. So for if
it's a run stopping the situation, she need a.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Bigger end kind of player.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, I also know that they're trying to do some
stuff with Zach Harrison, Brandon Dorlis. So even though we're
talking about like what this five man front could be,
it's any combination of this stuff. If you're needing long
and lanky, you're putting Leonard Floyd out there, and you're
putting James Spears juniors to set the edge. But if
you're wanting more of these like run stoppers, Braylan Trice,
(23:20):
maybe Jalen Walker, who can get sideline to sideline really quick.
Like So for for all of that, what's really complicated
is is like there's not a there's not an answer here,
you know, because I don't think that it matters. Like,
let's say week one, the Falcons run the five front,
the five man front that they run out there is
(23:41):
Leonard Floyd, Arnold, ab Katie, David Anyamata, Zach Harrison, Rugeroro. Like,
let's say that's the five that they run out there
for the first two plays of game one week one. Yep,
that doesn't mean that two plays later, it's not gonna
be Zach Harrison, James Spears, Junior, Jalen Walker, Kayden ellis
coming up in between, you know, David Anyamata and Rukro Like,
(24:04):
there are so many variables to this front and the
attack style that they want to be. I know, a
couple of weeks ago, we talked with Taran about or
I guess I talked with tarn about what you are.
We had you there in the back of our minds.
Anytime I make a dad joke, I'm like, oh, we.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Love that the corner, that's your brand.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But we were talking about, you know, realistic expectations for
ed Rushers year one in the rookie year, and I
kind of said, it's like, okay, yes, the Falcons as
an organization are dead last in pass rush stats in
total sack numbers over the last five six years. To
break into even the middle quartile of sacks and pressures
(24:53):
across the league, I think it's going to be everyone.
It's not like we're just sitting here being like James
Chris Junior is gonna get ten sacks and it's going
to fundament change what the Falcons are doing past rush wise,
It's okay, maybe he gets three, Maybe Jalyn Walker gets three,
maybe kay Nellis gets five, Maybe Arnold ib Katie gets six.
You know like, I think, if you have these waves,
I'll take that. And to me, it doesn't matter who's starting.
(25:14):
It's just as long as they're getting after the quarterback.
I did not answer your question at all.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Now that I've been rambling, I was literally about to
be like, okay, so are we gonna go with Leonard
Floyd and Zach Harrison.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I feel awful that I've been talking for maybe five
minutes straight and never once did I answer the question.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But you laid out. You laid out why maybe even
thinking about it in terms of starters and backups, at
least when it comes to the defensive line and the
front seven, maybe kind of like a fool's errand yeah,
because everybody's going to have their role, you know, like
Eddie Goldman, I don't think we would have if we
look back on the twenty twenty four season in five years,
I don't think people are gonna be like, oh, yeah,
Eddie Goldman was a starting defensive lineman for the Falcons.
(25:56):
He started some games last year for Atlanta like he
was a star. So that that is kind of the
big asterisk when it comes to a defensive front. However,
that being said, I think you're five that you called
out at least day one makes sense in there. And
I think that James Pierce, out of the two first
(26:17):
round rookies, I think is probably more likely to start
in a purely situational role and just know exactly what
he's doing. I think Jalen Walker, as much as they
say they're starting him off on the edge, like we
know what he can do, and he's looked really good
out there like that has been kind of my takeaway
I think from mini camp is Jalen Walker looks solid.
Like he was leading the defensive line individual rust drills.
He showed a lot more flexibility than I thought he
(26:39):
did on tape, and that kind of stood out to me.
I was like, Wow, he really bends around the bag nicely.
So if we're talking any rookies, I think he maybe
has one of the strongest chances of cracking that starting lineup.
So I like the five D laid out there and
maybe even adding Jalen Walker as that kind of like
sixth man. Could he be the first rotation with Arnold
Levy Katie.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I think it's interesting too because it's like who ultimately
steps up within the first five or six weeks in
this the way that they want to play, in the
style that Jeff Olbrick wants to play in. I think
it's going to be a big because of the way
that training camp is these days, and you know, TBD
on whether or not starters are actually or anyone is
going to play in the preseason. I think that's a
little TBD at this point. I do think that it's
(27:22):
going to be probably five or six weeks into the
season before we really feel like we know what this
defense is in the way that they want to play.
We've heard from different guys about you've heard it at nauseum,
the attack stile front that they want to have and
it's like, but what does that mean? And I thought
Ruker Roro explained it very well comparing it to last year.
He was like, last year, you know, you're reacting based
(27:46):
on you're having to think about you know, Okay, if
they do this, we got to do this. If they
do this, And he was like, that's not necessarily what
things are now. It's a bit more simplistic.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, you're not diagnosing, you're just deploying.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
You're just it's proactive, not reactive. Is the main thing
that I feel like I've gotten about what this front
could be from these players and what the style is
the problem right now, they don't have pads on. We
have no idea what this front.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Is going to look like.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
You know, Like I'm so you're kind of talking in
this hypothetic.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
We're still talking like yeah, theoretical, hypothetical, all the edicals,
all of them. But it is exciting. And this is
the last thing that I think we can talk about
with the Front seven really quickly, with the fore man
look and how when they talk about versatility, like this
is what gets me excited and it totally falls in
line with the hypothetical theory. But let's say they're actually
(28:38):
set up really well for like a fore Man front
if it included say Zach Harrison on one of the ends.
Then you've got Ruke and David in the middle, and
you've got Brandon dor List maybe on the other side.
Like that's a nice solid four that are big enough
to defend the run but can also attack as you
said in that single gap style. But then behind them
you got Caden Ellis, you got Divine Diablo, and you
(28:58):
got Jalen Walker. Because now you're in a four to three, right,
you got three linebackers, all of whom got some nice
speed and athleticism. You walk Jalen Walker, you can really
quickly bump somebody down and turn that into a five
to two. Look like, there is so much flexibility with
all of these guys. So again, it's probably a little
bit of a moot point to be looking at them
as as starters and back.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Ups, I mean, and like drop Devon Diablo.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Back, like yea, you know there's the former safety. Former safety,
we have like fifteen safeties on this roster. You want
to just talk about the safety that's our next camback.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's talk about safeties.
I think the big the big part of this is
where I think where DeMarco Helms fits into this now
that he's coming back from indury. I know you and
Teraryn talked a lot about that. I'm really excited to
have him back because I thought that he was on
such an upward trajectory and I felt like this staff
specifically really valued him, and even though he's a seventh
(29:48):
round draft pick, They're like, get this guy out there.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And if if he brings that physical element, you could
argue that's kind of like one of the few missing
ingredients for Atlanta's defense when you know, we talk about
the versatility and some of the ballhawk nature that like
Jesse Batesman don't really have that like pure just hammer dumper. Yeah,
they don't really have the Willie Moe or the Keanu
Neale of defense's past. To Marco Hellms turns into that,
(30:11):
I wouldn't be mad at it.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
That would be a w for this front office. That's
for sure a big draft win. But I also think
that obviously you go and you get Xavier Wats, and
you go and get Xavier Watts for a reason. And
I know that it's a bit of a mixed bag
again because we haven't necessarily seen him truly alongside Jesse
(30:33):
Bates in the traditional sense. They're not going at one
hundred and ten percent. We're not really seeing eleven on eleven.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
He was mostly actually kind of like working on some
individual things right off to the side, not in like
an injury sense or anything, just getting some like pure
skilled technical stuff done.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
And that was something that even Rahee Morris on Wednesday,
he was talking about James Pearce Junior because he also
was one of those guys that was having some like
one on one technique stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You'm talking a lot, would you, Gray? Yeah, Floyd on Tuesday. Yeah,
there just like during special teams when everybody else was working,
he was just locked in a conversation. I was like, Hey,
that's great, like getting his year. Jerry Gray brought up
Javon Curse when talking about like who in the league
is talking about Javon Curse nineteen ninety nine draft yea, yeah,
Jerry Gray is so like, tell him stories, talk his
(31:18):
zero off.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah. So it's interesting because I think because of the
nature of we haven't really seen as much. I I'm
still penciling in Xavier Watts to be a guy who
slots in alongside Jesse Bates. The issue is is like
how quickly can he get there?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
True? Because I could totally see a world where, yes,
Xavier Wats play is a starter for like twelve or
thirteen games this season, but in week one it is
Jordan Fuller out there, correct, you know, like I could
see that being a reality.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
And I think with the way that this, I mean
you kind of saw it with Ruke Roro. Let's use
him as an example. Last year he was a healthy
scratch for the first four games of the season because
essentially what Raheem Moore say is we don't need him right, Like,
we have a lot of depth. Do we have Grady
Jared out there or David an Nimai. Everybody's good, everybody's healthy.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And so why rush him out there? When we put
him out there, he'll know exactly what you're doing. We'll
have seen it for four weeks on practice fields at
a high level. Yeah, It's like they'll know.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah. So it almost makes me wonder if someone like
an Xavier Watts could follow a similar not saying that
he'll be a healthy scratch and like we won't see him.
I don't think that at all. But to your point
about Jordan Fuller being the vet guy in there, being
somebody who has a lot of experience under his belt,
who's played in some different systems, like that could be
(32:33):
the easy safe option early, but it's ultimately about where
Xavier Watts gets to buy week seven, Week eight.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, but I think by and large, like the safety
group is gonna be a little bit like the defensive
line too, where you can mix and match based on
some matchups. All Right, they're playing more physical. If DeMarco
Hellms fits into that role, we're gonna start bringing him
in there, maybe a little bit more than Exavier Wat.
I'm in the box, yeah, because like Jesse can do
all of it. Yeah, you can almost kind of like
(33:01):
plug and play that second piece to like deploy them
as the as they need to fit the matchup that
you're going up again. So I think the safety situation
is fascinating. I also think it's going to play into
the nickel situation because like you can roll them down,
you can have a big nickel. Kevin King, I don't
even know what position he is. He's kind of like
just a little bit of everything, corner, hybrid safety nickel.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah, honestly, the best the best part of your depth
is Kevin King in my opinion, because I do think
he can do anything you really need him to. Injuries
are going to happen. It's the NFL, so you need
to be able to have somebody who is a jack
of always.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
A super utility player in baseball. He's like Martin Proto.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Right, Yeah, great, grate pool. I loved Martin Proto when
he was with the Right. Yeah, he like just would
do everything for you. Hey, have you ever played first base?
All right, we'll suit up. You're going out there, head man.
But I think in terms of what Kevin King, Kevin
King can be in any room in the secondary. He
can work with the safety, so you can work with
the Nickels, you can work with the corners, like wherever
(34:02):
you can plug and play him. Well, it's an asset
to have him on this fifty three man roster. I
think it's why they brought him back. It gives them
the flexibility, especially when they're thinking about who they were
drafting and what type of player they're gonna get. It
was like, okay, well, if you get a corner, you
can slot, Mike Cues in the slot, not to say
slot seven times. But I think that's what's really great
(34:23):
about Kevin King is the ability to do a little
bit of everything and cross train in that way. But
in terms of to move us forward like a little
let's let's talk about the Nickel a little bit, because
I think that is one of the biggest question marks
I have is whether who who is going to emerge there?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It might be the most pure can't battle.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yes, yeah, yes, it's and I think it's between if
we're just going a pure Nickel. Look, we're not talking
like just.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
No, yeah, just like the guys in a typical NIKEL
slot corner.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yes, it's it's between three three guys. You're talking about
d Alford, who's been the starter at Nickel the last
last two years. You have Clark Phillips, the third, who
primarily was working last year outside and he did get
some reps when Mike Cues was hurt outside opposite AJ Trarell.
And then you have Billy Bowman Junior, who is a
recent draft pick. And those are the three guys that
(35:16):
I think all of them are in this conversation, and
I at this point in time don't know who I'm
putting above the other or even if nickel is going
to be the package that they predominantly sit in.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, right, like that type of nickel again, because like
that you talked about, Yeah, as we've talked about, it
reminds me a lot of twenty nineteen or twenty twenty
when you had demarco'casey and Kean O'Neil and Ricardo Allen
and it was like, Okay, yeah, we don't necessarily need
Brian Poole because I think he was actually gone that
off season and they could kind of manufacture that big
(35:53):
nickel look and same type of skill set. So yeah,
there is a chance that they don't really have either
of those any of those three out there, and they
do have DeMarco helms with Jordan Fuller and Jesse Bates
and Javier Watts. Yeah exactly. So of those three, though,
I think that the I think right now the leaders
is de offered, and I think the race is kind
(36:14):
of Billy Bowman's to win or lose. I think how
he performs in training camp will either help him secure
that job as the starter, because I watched him closely
kind of on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's funny that you mentioned that, because I knew were
going to get into this. One of the first things
that Will told me after we got off the practice
field the other day because you were specifically watching the rookies,
so everybody.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Goes that was my assignment.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
That was design who's watching the rookies and giving like
a progress report on where they are and what they're doing.
And the first thing he said was, it's really easy
to watch Billy Bowman junior just just looking at him. Yeah,
that is word for literally what Will said.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So we'll just enjoy watching that young man practice.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Like what stuck out to you.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
He's like fiery. You just kind of feel the energy
resonating off him. He had a crop top jersey and
and then like tucked the under armour up underneath it.
So he was just like full sporting some midriff, which
you know it's hot out there on June tenth as
they were practicing, so hey, go for it, but just
quick to react kind of flies downhill swagger, which I
(37:16):
think kind of you need in that spot. That would
be an interesting little like episode is just ranking the
positions where like you need the most of the least swagger.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh, like we should absolutely does a.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Kicker need to have the most swagger on the team
or the.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Leastwager on the great question, right question?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Because I think a nickel corner like you if you
got a honey Badger, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Outside baker, outside corner wide receiver, just off the top
of outside corner wide receiver and then nickel, Yeah, those
are the ones that need the most swag.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I think I think we're onto something here. But yeah,
so he definitely brings that to the table and and
we have It was interesting when Rahee Morris was kind
of singling him out talking about the learning style of
all the rookies, and he was just like, and then
Billy Bowman kind of does his own thing, but you
can tell that he is asking everybody about everything and
just trying to learn everywhere he goes. I think that's
(38:06):
a pretty big green flag if you're looking at like,
are you going to earn your role in training camp?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So I'm excited to see what he brings. But right
now the Alford probably has the spot. Can Billy Bowman,
you know, knock him out of that or even Clark
Phillips As he continues to advance in his career, he
was our camp champ last year.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I was just about to say, like Clark Phillips is
for the last two years or three years, however long
he's been here. Now he always pops in training camp.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, always't to talking about speed. I underestimated how fast
he actually is.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, in his vertical like he's going up against Drake
London and Drake has you know, a bunch of inches
on him, so I oftentimes he just has this flashiness
to him that I don't think many people have seen
in season, but I feel like I see it all
the time in training camp, and I'm kind of like,
where's the disconnect, Like why can't we see this flashiness
(38:57):
in the season, And so it's kind of a toss up.
That's why I think this, to your point, is the
truest and most pure camp battle that we're gonna see
going into July, August and into the preseason.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Man, I can't wait, it's almost here. We're gonna keep
an eye on all of these. So don't worry. Even
though we say Nickel might be the most pure camp battle,
We're still going to be watching closely to the third
running back position and see, you know, is it going
to be Jase McClellan or Carlos Washington. I have my thoughts,
but we've got plenty of time to cover those not
on today's episode. Before we wrap up, though, it is
Father's Day this weekend, So Happy Father's dayed all the
(39:33):
dads out there. Father, I am a father, Yes, thank
you Liam for making me a daddy. But you grew
up as the daughter of a football coach. So I
just thought it would be a fun way to close
this out to see if you have any memorable like
Father's Day moments that you had with your dad.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
So, oh gosh, there are so many, but I think
just recently my dad. And also so I'm the oldest
of three, three girls, and so we used to joke
when I was younger that dad, because he was around
football players so much, he had too much testosterone, like
at work, and so he'd come home and he could
only handle estrogen like that was the whole thing, is,
(40:13):
like we would joke. He's the best girl dad. I
can't say enough great things about about him. But something
special that's happened in the last month is my little sister,
who was eighteen. She's a big golfer. She won a
state championship back in May, and my dad, yeah, dad,
it was her coach. He was her golf coach and
(40:34):
he actually when she won, when they won that state,
that golf state championship, my dad had actually done something
that I don't know very many people who have done this,
but he won a state championship coaching all three of
his daughters.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
So he cut yes, that's so cool. Yeah, so he
could you win softball?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I'm a four time softball state champion in the state
of Georgia. Let's go yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
I thought you knew that.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I mean maybe, but like, that's incredible. That blows my mind.
I didn't realize I was sitting here with softball royalty.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
So my dad coached me my junior and senior year.
We won both of those years. And then he coached
my middle sister, katherin Grace for four years. They won
I think three state championships together.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And then his dad's like the Bill Walsh of Georgia
High School, No real.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And then he when Charlesy, my little sister, when she
started to pick up golf in like middle school, he
would go golfing with her, and that he decided to
help with the high school and the girls team there,
and then they won a state championship this past May.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
So look out.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
I don't know if that's the comparison we want to make,
but hey, but so it's I say all that to
say that, like he's had these moments. We have these
pictures and maybe I'll post them at some point, but
there are these pictures of I'm hugging him after we
won in softball, My kath and Grace is hugging him
after we won in softball, and then Charlesea won was
hugging him after she won.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Golf for him.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So he has one at least one state championship with
all three of his daughters.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, that's such an awesome just memory, and that would
make me so proud. You know, one day, I'm never
lucky for Liam to win one blue ribbon in a
swim meet and you're like, yeah, yeah, you guys did
at the highest level. That's that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah. So to share that with him and to kind
of see this like full circle moment of all three
of us have had that, it's like, I don't know
anybody else who has that story. So that that, to
me is the epitome of like girl dad energy, like
Happy Father's Day to my dad and all of the
state championships that we were able to break him.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. Yeah, Happy
Father's Day to your dad. Happy Father's stayed all the
dad's out there. I think I think we've gone on
for long enough today, so we will end it there
for Tory mclaney, I am Will McFadden. Thank you guys
so much for listening and watching, and we will see
you soon.
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