June 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Dan Hoard visits with Trevor Sikkema from Pro Football Focus about Cincinnati’s draft class and chances of winning the AFC North. Then, Dan shares five observations about one of the biggest storylines to look forward to in training camp.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, get everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading the Bengals Boot Podcast.
The holiday oh holiday addition, as the players begin a
five week break before training camp, but we don't here
On the pod. Coming up, I'll talk to Trevor Sikkama
from Pro Football Focus about what it's going to take
(00:24):
for the Bengals to surpass Baltimore in the AFC North,
followed by five observations about one of the biggest storylines
will be focused on in training camp. The Bengals Booth
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(00:46):
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computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the
greatest thing since Knockout Roses. My stepfather was a wholesale florist,
(01:14):
so you would think I would know something about flowers
and how to grow them. Unfortunately I don't. Whatever the
opposite of a green thumb is, you're listening to them.
That's why knockout roses are so great. They're already planted
in front of our house when we moved in, and
with little to no maintenance, they bloom beautifully year after year.
(01:37):
All we have to do is prune them occasionally and
that's it. Sun and rain takes care of the rest.
So if you're looking to add some beautifully colored flowers
to your home, knockout roses are hard to beat and,
more importantly, for me, easy to grow. Now, let's get
to football. According to ESPN bet, at this point of
(02:00):
the off season, Cincinnati is tied for having the seventh
best odds of winning the Super Bowl. This week, I
discussed the roster and some key off season question marks
with Trevor Sikama, an analyst and podcaster for Pro Football Focus. Trevor,
you've probably been on a bunch of podcasts where the
(02:21):
host near the end says, tell us where people can
find you or find your work, And I want to
start with that because it seems to me that, in
addition to your written content, you are doing more and
more podcasts and Pro Football Focus, so fill us in.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Pro Football Focus.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
They keep you busy, but I'm glad that they do
because I work with a lot of great people, get
to do a lot of different shows. The main one
that I do is the PFFNFL show that I get
to do with mainly Dalton Washman, but we have a
lot of other great people who are in on that
show as well. Max Chadwick is a familiar face there,
those guys doing the college show also dabbling in the
NFL world. I also cover the NFL Draft three sixty five.
(03:02):
That's my true passion, is the lead draft analyst for
Pro Football Focus, and I do that over the NFL
Stock Exchange show with my good friend and co host
Connor Rogers. So it definitely keeps us busy, even here
in the middle of the offseason. It gives us things
to think about, and we're already thinking about that twenty
twenty six NFL Draft class to win some summer scouting.
So the work never stops, the podcast never stopped.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
But I love it. I love what I get to do,
so it's always great when I get the turn.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Of my gun.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So with the title NFL Draft Analyst. Let's discuss the
Bengals draft. They had six picks. The top three were
Shamar Stewart, Demetrius Knight, and Dylan Fairchild.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
How did they do?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I look, I actually really liked what the Bengals were
able to do in the draft. I think that the
Shamar Stewart pick, obviously, I think that what's going on
with him and the contract situation, it.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Put the dark cloud over it.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Honestly, though, the way that I saw this is this
is kind of what they really wanted Miles Murphy to be,
except for just maybe like a higher ceiling type of
version of that. Not that Miles Murphy can't find a
place on the defensive line, whether it's on the interior
or the edge, but I think they were hoping that
he'd probably find more of a home and be more
dominant as an edge rusher. And I think they think
(04:17):
the same now of Shamar Stewart, who I think is
like Miles Murphy just almost super charged a little bit, right,
taking a super Mario mushroom or something with the size,
to strength, the explosiveness, all that good stuff. So I
know that the contract situation that he's currently in kind
of clouds that a little bit. But this is a
very talented football player and one who is a highly
regarded recruit for a reason, somebody who at texts A
(04:39):
and M really had to get on the field over
the last couple of years and develop him in any
way that he could.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And then of course you have this year starting with Nick.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Scorton there on that team, So I think it's still
going to be a little bit of time and development.
It's going to take a little bit of time for him,
but he's got an incredibly high ceiling.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I like the Dylan Fairchilds selection as well.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
This is an interior offensive line that really just had
to get a lot better from what it was last season.
And there's some familiar faces there, Ted Carris obviously one
of them playing at that center spot.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
But then it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Feels like those two guard spots are up for grabs
and it's sort of going to be a training camp
battle of who's going to come out and win those
and I think that Dylan Fairchild could very well. You know,
he's coming from such a highly successful program at Georgia.
He's faced some of the best interior defensive linemen in
the SEC over the last couple of years. So I
like the fact that they've either got him his depth
(05:24):
or maybe as an early starter. Here, Demetrius Knight was
somebody who you know, when I was looking at night,
I didn't get to him until sort of late in
the process. I didn't really know a lot about him.
And it kind of makes sense, right, I mean, he's
a Georgia Tech for all those years, plays but sort
of sparingly. Okay, maybe as one year left or I
think he had two years left of eligibility. But he
goes to Charlotte, so he kind of goes down in
(05:45):
competition a little bit, but he shows out really well.
So then all right, well, Charlotte to Columbia South Carolina.
That's not too far away. They've actually been able to
see me play. Let me go to South Carolina. And yes,
he is an older prospect, but man, you love what
he's able to bring to the table, in my opinion,
especially as a will linebacker, which is perfect for what
the Bengals need. Right They've got Logan Wilson in the
(06:07):
middle to be able to play that mike linebacker role
as the centerpiece of that second level of the defense.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now Demetrius Knight.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
He's a player who you know, when I watched him
and I first looked at his measurables, I was like, man,
you know, he's big enough to be able to play Mike.
I actually kind of like him as a Mike backer,
and I still think that he could be a good
Mike linebacker.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But really it's that run and chaseability.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
It's his fluidity and coverage and the potential that he
has there that really gets me excited. And so I
think he landed in a perfect spot where he can
play more as that in space linebacker. You know, Logan
Wilson's the one who's calling things out, He's getting the
run fits set everything like that, and then Demetrius can
play a little bit more in space and run and
chase a little bit more. So I think that that
gets a lot out of what he brings to the table.
(06:48):
I think Breck Carter kind of the same way, coming
from Clemson, another athletic linebacker to bring in that depth
and kind of get that same player there. And then
I'll just shout out Tis Brooks as well. You know,
when I was watching Tis Brooks, he had some of
my favorite vision of any running back in the class.
Now that is my as people ask me all the
time kind of about how I scout and what I'm
(07:09):
looking for and things like that, generally not to give
away too much of the secret sauce.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I don't really care. I love talking about it.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
But I have about ten categories for every single position,
and there are things like for running backs, for example,
it's you know, like how often they can make guys
miss elusiveness, you know what they are after contact, you
know their strength after contact, their vision.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Things like that, right, And it's not like all.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Those ten categories are just okay, it's one out of ten,
it's one out of ten. It's one out of ten,
and then we get to one hundred. That's a fine
way to do it. But as I've been scouting over
the years, I find tune in a little bit to say, like,
you know what, actually, visions the most important part for me,
and so I give it a little bit higher of
a weight, a higher percentage. So maybe out of ten
points instead, now vision might be out of sixteen or eighteen,
(07:54):
so there are more points to be gained, because I
think that that trait is more valuable if you can't
see the field the way that you need to. No
matter how fast yard, no matter how strong you are,
you're just gonna flame out in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Trent Richardson is a great example of that.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Look how incredible Trent Richardson was when he was at Alabama,
and yet he gets to the NFL. He just could
not read blocking schemes the way that he needed to.
He did not have that running back vision to match
the athletic traits. Taj Brooks a little bit of the opposite.
I'm not sure that he is the best caliber athlete
for the position, but man, can he see it? He
is patient, He knows where these blockers are going to be,
(08:30):
he knows where his aiming points are. He knows when
he needs to arrive to get past them, past the
line of scrimmage and into.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That second level.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
So it might not be a big home run hitter
for you, but I think there are going to be
a handful of plays throughout practice preseason whenever he gets
his chances to showcase his stuff. The Bengals could look
at him and say, man, all right, is he gonna
be the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Early down back for us all the time? No, but
especially if there are some.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Injuries, we feel good about the high football IQ this
guy has and putting him in the lineup. So that's
just sort of an overview of when I'm looking at
the names in their class, of this class some of
the thoughts that I had of them pre draft.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Trevor Sikramuff from Pro Football Focus is our guest. I
want to circle back to Shamar Stewart for a second.
Everybody is focused on the fact that he only had
four and a half sacks, and that's fair. It's certainly
a major point of discussion. I've made the case though,
that saying that he wasn't productive just because of that
stat is an overstatement because he was good against the run.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
He had a lot of pressures.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Is that how you felt about Shamar Stewart?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, so I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
He his tape looks different from a player that you
would say, like, oh, just you know, one and a
half sacks every single year. Like when you see a
player who has three years of either rotating and contributing
snaps or even starting snaps for them to have that
little production, I think that your mind immediately goes to like, Okay,
this guy can't play.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
He's not gonna make it, and you know, a.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Little bit of a puff in our chest here, I'd
say that this is all Shamar Stewart's a good example
of why PFF exists, in my opinion, because you get
to go beyond just the common stats there. And sometimes
the stats do tell the story correctly, but sometimes they don't,
and I think you need a little bit more context there.
In that regard, I will say this, The pass rush
metric that I like to lean on so much more
(10:15):
so than sacks is a passers win percentage, and for
Schmar Stewart that passor's win percentage of And just to
give people a barometer here, you know, like twenty five
to thirty percent of a pastor's win percentage how often
you're winning one on one against your matchup that is
(10:35):
in front of you, whether or not you make it
to the quarterback or not. Right, because it's independent of that.
Let's say that the offense is running a play where
the ball's coming out of his hands within two point
five seconds. Well, even if you're Trey Anderson, right, A
great example of somebody who wins one on one a
lot very quickly, even if he wins within the first
two seconds, well, he's not going to get a sack,
he might not even get a pressure because the ball's
(10:56):
coming out so quick.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But he still did his job. He's still won.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
And so pastors win percentage is something that's a little
bit more concrete. It's something that's a little bit more
stable that we can predict that we like to lean
on a little bit more. If you have a twenty
five to thirty percent pass or twin percentage, that's crazy.
That's like defensive player of the year type of category.
Twenty to twenty five is normally that tier one of
edge rusher's, the Trey Henderson's, the Miles Garretts, the Michael Parsons,
(11:19):
the TJ. Watts like those guys, a lot of them
in their best years, they're in that range fifteen to
twenty really good starting edge rusher. You get down to
ten to fifteen percent, it's like, okay, it's not bad.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Maybe a starter, rotational guy.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And if you're below ten percent, you're probably your team's
probably looking to upgrade your spot if that's how you
are consistently playing. Shamar Stewart was right around that fifteen
percent pass or twin percentage this past year. So it's
much more indicative of what this guy can do as
a pass rusher rather than just looking at the one
and a half sacks that he had. So he still
needs to put it together. I still think he needs
(11:52):
a better pass rush plant, specifically before the ball is snapped,
but at least that physical ability was able to show
out in that sort of metric. So that's the way
that I viewed Shimar Stewart. And you're right, strength wise,
length wise, overall body type, really good run defender as well.
You picked this guy because you hope that he has
a high floor because of his athletic and strength gifts,
(12:13):
and then also because of high he has a high ceiling.
Those are the types of first round picks that you
love to make, and hopefully we get to see him
on the field soon.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
One more draft related question before I changed the subject.
After the draft, the Bengals signed center Seth McLaughlan from
Ohio State and defensive tackle Eric Gregory out of Arkansas's
college free agents. Did you like either or both? And
did anybody else that they signed in the undrafted category
catch your eye?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
So I haven't seen their entire undrafted free agency list,
so I'll kind of like go down their their depth
chart and see if I recognize any names here. I
don't know a lot about Gregory, but I do know
a lot about McLaughlin, who, before he got hurt, man
he was playing very very well. And this is somebody
that before he even went to Ohio State, when he
was an Alabama he wasn't consistent.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
The way that he needed to be yet.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
But I watched him and I go, Okay, I mean
we've got something here. We've got something where very clearly,
whether it was as a sophomore or a junior, before
he got hurt and before he transferred over to Oiowa State,
he showed signs of like, all right, this guy kind
of plays the game like a pro, you know, like
the movement skills, they're quick, they're precise, He's thinking about
things the right way. Now, there are times when, okay,
(13:24):
it might show up he's not the most physically gifted
interior offensive lineman. Okay, he might get knocked off of
his balance and off of his feet a little bit.
Maybe it takes him a little bit more and asking
him to reach completely across the body. If you're talking
about an inside zone or an outside zone rushing play
like that's a little bit difficult for him, but he
does a lot of the really solid things well. And
(13:46):
I think it's traits like that when when you hear
stuff like that about an interior offensive lineman, you don't
have to worry as much as you would maybe if
you heard those exact same things about an offensive tackle,
because if you're an offensive tackle, you've got to kind
of be left on an island.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Well, when you're on the interior, actually when you were
at center, so much of what you're able to do
is chemistry based. It's so much around you know, Okay,
not only do I have to know my own strength
and weaknesses very well, because I.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Talk about I feel like I talk about that all
the time.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Interior offensive linemen have to self scout as good as
as good as anybody can, because you not only have
to know your own strength and weaknesses, you've got to
know the strength and weaknesses of the two guys next
to you, whether it's a tackle or in the center's case,
whether it's the two guards. So you got to know, like, okay,
well you know I got Let's say Fairchild wins the
starting gig right and and McLaughlin might be able to
(14:34):
go like, Okay, I got Fairchild next to me.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
All Right.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
He's a little bit lighter, but he is quick. So
if we're ever in a situation where I need him
to bounce off of one defensive tackle and help me out,
I know he's going to be able to do it.
So all that to kind of say, I hope that
he gets back to that pre injury form Seth McLachlin,
because I thought he was. He was playing at a
really high level before he ended up getting hurt. And
I just think that you already saw the baselines, whether
it was at Alabama or Ohio State of him preparing
(14:58):
and playing like a pro.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So I think that he was a really nice undrafted
free agent.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Dad, I actually have one more draft related question. It
goes back to last year's draft. The tackles last year
were thought to be historically good. Eight were taken in
the first round. A Marius Mims was the fifth tackle selected.
One year later, how high would a Marius Mims be
on that tackle list based on his rookie year?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Oh wow?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Okay, so the twenty twenty five class, let's take a
look at the offensive tackles and the guys that were
drafted there, Uh you had.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Will Campbell obviously went four harmon Membugo seven nine.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I meant last year's class.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So if the eight taken last oh oh, okay, Marius
was fifth. And I'm wondering based on the fact that
he got to play, he played well if if it
were done again, now, you know, would he be in
the top two or three? Would it be Joe Alton
then him, or would he be at the top.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, Like I so, I think the all still still
that top guy there. But man, it's basically anybody's It's
basically anybody to take that second offensive tackle spot.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I mean, like Leatham obviously got some playing time. He struggled,
but he moved from left to right. The same exact
situation with Tolise Fuanga. Both of those guys. I like
the decent amount, but anytime you're throwing them on the
other side of the line of scrimmage, it's hard enough
as a rookie, and then when you're switching everything, it's
sort of tough to think about. But I think a
Marius at least like to your point, like he looked
as advertised when he was out there, Like, yeah, okay,
(16:29):
he's a little bit raw, but we knew that was
going to be the case with his experience coming out
of Georgia and him missing that the time at Georgia
due to injury. I think I think Olu Fashonu probably
is still well. I guess not still he was the
third offensive tackle taking he's probably the second guy. But
then yeah, I mean, Mims could very well have been
right there, picked within the top ten. I think that
(16:51):
he had a year where you feel good about it
moving forward. You know, did he like the world on fire?
Was it as good as Joe Alt?
Speaker 5 (16:57):
No?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Okay, but that's why Alt's going is the first defensive
tackle here in this discussion. But I really do think
that he gets picked eighteenth. You could very well make
a case for him to go fringe top ten if
this is sort of this redraft and be that second
or third offensive tackle take and probably, I would say
in the conversation for that third offensive tackle take in.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Trevor Sikoma from Pro Football Focus is our guest as
PFF's lead draft analyst. I'm sure you watched a lot
of Notre Dames defensive players over the last couple of
years and therefore saw Al Golden's defenses. What did you
think of the higher and do you expect significant improvement
in the Bengals defense specifically tied to Al Golden taking over.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, so I like Al Golden. I liked what I
saw from.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Him last year at Notre Dame. You know, an aggressive
style of defense, specifically in coverage, and I think that's
where you would really want to focus things for the
Bengals when you're sort of like looking at what could
be this season. I think specifically there is one player.
Dal Washerman did a really good job of pointing this
out as well my coast on the PFFNFL show.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Al Golden likes to play a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Of single high stuff, you know, and he had a
really good safety to be able to do it in
Xavier Watts last year. So you know, Wats is somebody
who I'm very excited about with him being in Atlanta
now getting to pair with Jesse Bates, who Bengals fans
obviously know very well. When you look at their current
situation with Al Golden coming over to Cincinnati, Geno Stone
(18:25):
is the player that I would want to highlight because
Geno Stone comes over from Baltimore, he does not have
a good season. In his first year in Cincinnati, his
coverage grade went from an eighty five point seven all
the way down to I believe it was a fifty
two point two or fifty two point three.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It just was not. It was a career low in
coverage grade.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Now, Luana Rumo was doing a lot of too high stuff,
like Cincinnati's sort of been leaning into that they've got
these two high safety looks, and Geno Stone was Yeah,
I think he was much more valuable when he was
in more of that single high situation, whether it was
with him as the free safety or sometimes as the
strong safety, the Robbert type over the middle.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Golden leans more into that.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Golden is more of a Cover one, Cover three, single
high safety type of a defensive shell, at least from
what we saw at Notre Dame. I think the best
coaches will always tell you, oh, you build the scheme
around the players.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So maybe it looks a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Maybe it's not as aggressive because he's going from having
Watts at the Notre Dame college level to now, okay,
it's the NFL. These guys are bigger, faster, stronger, I
think at every single position. But if they do lean
more into that. I think that gets more out of
Stone certainly as somebody who can then play as that
center fielder, free safety and coverage. I like Jordan Battle
in that situation as well, because when I watched him
(19:35):
at Alabama, he was very high at Football IQ all
the way back to his freshman season, as somebody who
could call things out, he control the middle of the field,
he could play in that robber role, he could play
down in the box. So I think that fits both
of those guys a little bit more. And then when
you were playing single high on the outside, sometimes it's
cover three, sometimes it's cover one, but a lot of
times it's man match, its zone match stuff. You still
(19:57):
have to be aggressive, think quickly, and get the mo
most out of some very agile, elusive and explosive corners.
That's what Dax Hill is, That's what DJ Turner is,
right like, That's why you drafted those guys so specifically.
I think a lot of times when you think about,
all right, well, new defense coming in, you know, what's
it gonna look like?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Is it you know? Is it three four? Is it
four to three? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
A lot of people talk about the box in the front,
with new defensive coordinators coming in, I am more focused
on what Golden is going to change for them on
the back end, because I feel like there were inconsistencies
there for the Bengals over the last couple of years really,
since they haven't had Jesse Bates back there to be
able to play that impactful safety role. And now with
the signing of Stone and him still being there, him
(20:40):
being a more advantageous situation, I think from the top down,
it's going to help this defense feel like those guys
are in their more proper spots.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
If you will.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We've got a few minutes left with Trevor Sikomuff from
Pro Football Focus, what are your biggest Bengals question marks?
Roughly a month before the start of training camp.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I think often line has to be the big one, right.
I think this unit really struggled along the interior offensive
line with Carris and Kappa and voltson last year, and
Carris was solid. I think I think it wasn't his
best year, but I feel like he did kind of
as well as he could, you know, with with some
of the injuries of the offensive tackles and the the
inconsistencies with the guys that were standing next to him.
(21:19):
Obviously they don't have Alex cap anymore, and he got
a handful of guys that are fighting for those guard spots.
But figuring out what the best starting three is on
that interior is paramount for them heading into training camp,
heading in the preseason, because there are so many teams
in the NFL that are leaning into interior pressure. Now
you know before and I look, the big money still
(21:41):
goes to the Miles Garretts, the Micah Parsons, the Nick Bosas,
it still goes to a lot of those edge rushers.
But there are a lot of defensive coordinators that realize
the shortest distance to the quarterback is right up the
middle in a straight line, and if you can disrupt
the center, if you can disrupt the guards, and if
you can get in those a gaps, that really causes
(22:01):
a lot of a fuss for quarterbacks, especially a guy
like Burrow, who are for as elite as he is,
you know, heast doesn't have He's not the best scrambler,
and so if you really pressure him immediately up front,
that's something that's going to kill the play I for
you're the Bengals, and so for a team that has
two phenomenal wide receivers in Jamar Chase and t Higgins.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
The Bengals really are.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
A team that I feel like are going to be
in a lot of shootouts every single year if they
are every single game, if those guys are fully healthy,
because it's basically a matter of can you protect Joe
Burrow for three seconds. If you can protect Joe Burrow
for three seconds the majority of the game, I will
tell you I will bet on those two receivers to
win more often than they lose. And I think the
Bengals are scoring, you know, twenty five thirty plus every
(22:43):
single game, so they're going to be led, in my opinion,
by their offense.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I think that's always going to be the case.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
For as much as I like the Al Golden Higher,
I think it is going to take a little bit
of time. They're still obviously going to be fixing things
on the defensive line. Getting Trey Hendrickson out there is
paramount because he felt like he was a man alone
last season. Getting Shamar Stewart out there by week one
of the regular seasons so that the second half of
the season and hopefully the playoff run, he is more
acclimated to what NFL speed and NFL life is when
(23:10):
the game is going on.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So I think that certainly.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
On the defensive line, you have those questions to get
those guys out there as well. But as long as
Hendrickson's out there and as long as Shamar Stewart are
out there, as long as those contract things get worked out,
I'm not as nervous about that. I'm still nervous about
that interior offensive line because if it is as ineffective
as it was last year, it's just such a killer.
So we saw this team come on and still overcome
(23:33):
things like that and really make a playoff push towards
the end of last year. But the interior offensive line,
that is the biggest question mark that I have for
the Cincinnati Bengals, because if it's good, I think this
can be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.
But if it's not, it could be a reason that
keeps them out of the playoffs in a tough division.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
All Right, that's a perfect segue to my last topic.
Baltimore's won the AFC North each of the last two years.
No team has ever wanted three years in a row.
So how do you handicap bau More, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and
Cleveland at this stage.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, I think that Baltimore has to be the favorites,
not that Cincinnati can't spoil them. I think they're right
there competing for what I would call is they're right
there with one of those wild card teams. Now, of
course it's the NFL. Crazy things happen all the time.
Maybe that race is closer than we think. At this point,
I'd feel like it's all I think the Ravens are
probably going to be two wins better than the Cincinnati Bengals,
(24:24):
whatever number that is, fourteen, thirteen, twelve, whatever that is.
I feel like they're going to be two wins better
than the Bengals this upcoming season. I think the Browns
are in for a long season, and I look at
the Browns long term out looking. Man, I have a
lot of respect for Kevin Stefanski as a coach, Tim
(24:44):
Schwartz a defense coordinator, but that roster has only been
getting worse.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I feel like as time has gone on.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Outside of a couple of the stars, certainly Miles Garrett,
they paid to be around there for a long time.
But man, just look at their offensive line I mean
Joel Buttonio White Teller, their former All pros. Both of
those guys didn't play well last year. Now they're both
above the age of thirty. Ethan Postics to undrestricted free
agent this upcoming season, so is Jack Conklin to want
Jones struggled and he's probably gonna start for them at
offensive tackle so very quickly. I think three years ago
(25:13):
Cleveland was thought of as one of the best offensive
lines in the NFL, and now I think that it's
bottom half of the league, maybe bottom ten, bottom five
in the league, depending on how those veterans are able
to play into their thirties. So it's tough there, especially
with the quarterback situation.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I have a lot of faith in the Cleveland Browns
to be super competitive. I feel like I've been trying
to hedge the Steelers like every year, but Mike Tomlin
just keeps winning enough to keep the five hundred Street going,
you know, with Rogers there, I think the defense is
still gonna be good.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
The offense, I just I don't know what the identity is.
I just don't like, you.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Go out and you trade for DK Metcalf and he's
sort of the same thing that George Picking was. It
doesn't really change your offense a lot. And now you
bring in a quarterback in Rogers, who, yeah, okay, I
think that just by nature he's going to be better
than a rookie and Will Howard and Mason Rudolph, who's
proven to not be a starting quarterback.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
In this league.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
But look at what Rogers has been the last two years.
This is like what Tom Brady was in the back
end of the Buccaneer years. He's trying to get the
ball out within two seconds. He's trying to hang onto
the ball. Now you have wide receivers where DK metcalf,
his whole thing is hold onto the ball for two
three seconds to throw it to me. Deep Rogers didn't
have as good of an arm as he used to,
and he doesn't want to hold onto the ball because.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
He's forty one, forty two years old. So I just
there's good players in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Obviously I have a ton of respect for Mike Tomlin
as a head coach, but I think their offensive philosophy
is just, certainly on paper, it's not very cohesive. So
I really do think it's a two team race, and
we'll see how close the Bengals can can get to
whatever win total the Ravens end up putting up this year.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Trevor, this has been great. I really appreciate your time.
Keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Appreciated that anytime.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Trevor obviously knows his stuff. If you would like to
hear more of his content, you'll find him on the
PFF NFL Podcast and the NFL Stock Exchange Draft Podcast.
You can also follow him on x at Tampa Bay Trey.
Now here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth Podcast
is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to be
(27:16):
the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future
Proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and
community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the
best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the
official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now time for five
observations and the topic on this edition of the pod
(27:38):
is first round draft pick Shamar Stewart. As of this recording,
the twenty one year old defensive end out of Texas
A and M has not signed a contract or a
waiver that would cover him in the event of injury
and allow him to practice until a deal is done.
Observation number one involves the coverage of this negotiation nationally.
(28:00):
It's being portrayed like the Bengals are cheap or trying
to insert a crazy and unusual clause that is somehow
holding up the deal. That's simply not true. The clause
is reportedly standard among other NFL teams. However, the language
is slightly different from the bengals last two first round picks,
(28:22):
and Stuart and his agent are fighting those changes. And
now some people are floating doom and gloom scenarios, including
the idea that Stuart could skip his rookie year and
re enter the draft next year. That is so far
fetched that it really doesn't deserve our attention. The second
pick in the draft, Heisman Trophy winner Travis Hunter, is
(28:45):
also unsigned, and I haven't heard anybody bring up that
possibility with him. History tells us that the Bengals and
Stuart will eventually reach a deal, hopefully in time for
the first practice of training camp. Here's defensive coordinator Al Golden.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
I've been around long enough to know these things. Sometimes
they take some time, or they're more complicated than they
are on their face, and we're hopeful to get this
resolved in the next five six weeks and get him
out there and really looking forward. I love the young man.
He's had a great attitude, he learns really well, he's
a tentive. He asked good questions, So from that standpoint,
(29:26):
he's doing everything we're asking.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Observation number two involves the notion that Stuart's status is
a big distraction. Here are Ted Carris and Zach Taylor.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
I don't think it's been a distraction. I think it's
more been a distraction for the fans mostly. I mean,
I know Twitter, Twitter's hot right now, and since he
Twitter doesn't mess around, and you know, obviously you don't
want that to be.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
You know, carry into you know, when it gets real.
This is uh, you know, like I said, I thought
of Produglis ring.
Speaker 7 (29:59):
This is a different time, and you know, I think
it's you know, how it's how it's played out has
been probably unfortunate for both sides.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
It gets a lot of attention to the media and
not as much attention in the locker room, and so
I think it's very easy for us isolate ourselves in
these walls. We spend a lot of time here you
get asked questions about it, but you just learned to
continue to keep it moving. So I think our players
are doing a great job just focusing on what's important
inside the walls. Getting our reps down to practice certainly
gets a lot of headlines and stories and all that,
but we don't worry about any that stuff. And it
(30:31):
could be a contract, it can be an injury, it
can be any sort of adversity that can strike all
thirty two teams in this league. It's all going to
come in different shapes and forms. It's how your team
handles adversity the best, and this team's got a history
of doing a great job handling adversity the right way.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If Stewart had a sore hamstring and was around every day,
sitting in on meetings but watching practice from the sidelines,
would that be viewed as a big distraction. No, So
what's the difference? And that leads to observation number three,
his lack of practice time. I don't want to be
a homer and say that it's insignificant. Every practice is meaningful,
(31:08):
and Chamar would benefit from getting reps. But there are
still six weeks of practices in three preseason games before
the regular season opener in Cleveland. Here's Shamar's former college
teammate who now has the locker next to him in Cincinnati,
McKinley Jackson.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
I don't focus on contracts and all that stuff. I
just tell him like staying the playbook and stay in shape.
And I care for him very very much beyond football,
Like he's a special guy, special person. Stands background. That said,
where he came from, and I know where you can go.
I know what he can do for this team. Like
I said, he's really special. So just I'm hoping that
(31:47):
all that gets figured upstairs. How all the time goes.
He's ready and he's stuck, he's died, ain't locked in
because he's the first runner for us. He's gonna have
to he's gonna have to play. So he's going to
get in and I have I have a bunch of
faith in him. Take four of a push every day.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Observation number four involves a possible silver lining. The Bengals
have a lot of young defensive linemen, and since Shamar,
Trey Hendrickson, and b J. Hill weren't on the field
during OTA's and Mini gamps in BJ's case dudo minor injury.
Guys like Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins, Cedric Johnson, and McKinley Jackson.
(32:24):
We're getting extra reps here are Al Golden and Zach Taylor.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
It affects us in a positive way. As ironic as
that is, because you're already preparing for that injury when
it when it exposes itself. During the year, you forced
guys into playing multiple positions. H you know what we call,
you know, basically just horizontal depth. You know, ends playing tackle,
tackles playing end, some linebackers playing on the edge, those
(32:49):
type of things. So I think from that standpoint, we
always see the we always see the good in it
and the opportunity. Uh And I'm being serious on that.
Some guys have really taken advantage of their reps in
their opportunity and obviously I think will be more formidable
when those guys come back.
Speaker 8 (33:04):
It's been really good for guys as we build that depth.
Guys were fighting for opportunity in that way. It's been
a very positive thing. I think Al and our staff
has done a great job, especially on outside of the ball,
practicing with intent every single day. The install what we're
trying to achieve holding guys accountable, and the players have
(33:25):
really bought in and that's been exciting for me to see.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
My fifth and final observation is about what we're going
to see when Schamar gets on the field. As I
mentioned in my conversation with Trevor Sikkima, I think there's
been too much focus on what Chamar didn't do well
in college than where he excelled. Pro Football Focus graded
him number five in the country among defensive ends at
(33:48):
stopping the run and had him tied for twenty fifth
in the Power Conferences in most quarterback pressures, even though
he only had one and a half sacks last year.
Here's Bengal defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
We're literally talking about him missing sacks. But the guy
with his violent in the run game, he affects the
quarterback at a high rate. When I say affected, he's
back there right first year playing, truly starting, so he's
just got to learn how to finish. But more importantly,
(34:23):
he's beating up on tight ends. He is destroying tackles
run in pass. His effort and play style is phenomenal.
Like his his effort to the ball is he leaked. Okay, Now,
like I told everybody, if if he just finishes on
let's let's just say he gets I don't know, you
(34:46):
call it six seven sacks. You know what, he's not.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
A Cincinnati bank.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
That's that to me is the biggest thing. And so
people judged him off of that. But you got to
remember it first time doing it. When I say first
time doing it, it was a first year start. So as
he grows and develops as a player, I think the
skies are the limit. And like I always compare similar
(35:12):
deal to Rashaun Gary when he was coming out. You know,
he had all the traits, but he had he had
good pressure productions, but he didn't have the sac production. Well,
he gets to the league, he gets goes up, he's
on an edge more than he's been in college. And
then all of a sudden he he has two productions,
(35:35):
THENDO too, Bowl, those type of things. So but again,
like I said, if he had the numbers would have
been long gone. I'm saying top five, he was by
far the most explosive player in the draft.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You heard it. Jerry Montgomery says that Stewart has the
talent worthy of a top five NFL draft pick, and
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It's only a matter
of time before he's under contract. That's going to do it.
For this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to
you by Pai Core, Proud to be the Bengals Official
(36:09):
HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet
designed to elevate your home, business and community to a
new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for
the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider
of the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please
subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute,
give it a rating or share a comment that helps
(36:32):
more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks
so much for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast
Hi, get everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading the Bengals Boot Podcast.
The holiday oh holiday addition, as the players begin a
five week break before training camp, but we don't here
On the pod. Coming up, I'll talk to Trevor Sikkama
from Pro Football Focus about what it's going to take
(00:24):
for the Bengals to surpass Baltimore in the AFC North,
followed by five observations about one of the biggest storylines
will be focused on in training camp. The Bengals Booth
Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to
be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber,
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
(00:46):
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a
quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
this podcast as delivered write to your phone, tablet, or
computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the
greatest thing since Knockout Roses. My stepfather was a wholesale florist,
(01:14):
so you would think I would know something about flowers
and how to grow them. Unfortunately I don't. Whatever the
opposite of a green thumb is, you're listening to them.
That's why knockout roses are so great. They're already planted
in front of our house when we moved in, and
with little to no maintenance, they bloom beautifully year after year.
(01:37):
All we have to do is prune them occasionally and
that's it. Sun and rain takes care of the rest.
So if you're looking to add some beautifully colored flowers
to your home, knockout roses are hard to beat and,
more importantly, for me, easy to grow. Now, let's get
to football. According to ESPN bet, at this point of
(02:00):
the off season, Cincinnati is tied for having the seventh
best odds of winning the Super Bowl. This week, I
discussed the roster and some key off season question marks
with Trevor Sikama, an analyst and podcaster for Pro Football Focus. Trevor,
you've probably been on a bunch of podcasts where the
(02:21):
host near the end says, tell us where people can
find you or find your work, And I want to
start with that because it seems to me that, in
addition to your written content, you are doing more and
more podcasts and Pro Football Focus, so fill us in.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Pro Football Focus.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
They keep you busy, but I'm glad that they do
because I work with a lot of great people, get
to do a lot of different shows. The main one
that I do is the PFFNFL show that I get
to do with mainly Dalton Washman, but we have a
lot of other great people who are in on that
show as well. Max Chadwick is a familiar face there,
those guys doing the college show also dabbling in the
NFL world. I also cover the NFL Draft three sixty five.
(03:02):
That's my true passion, is the lead draft analyst for
Pro Football Focus, and I do that over the NFL
Stock Exchange show with my good friend and co host
Connor Rogers. So it definitely keeps us busy, even here
in the middle of the offseason. It gives us things
to think about, and we're already thinking about that twenty
twenty six NFL Draft class to win some summer scouting.
So the work never stops, the podcast never stopped.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
But I love it. I love what I get to do,
so it's always great when I get the turn.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Of my gun.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So with the title NFL Draft Analyst. Let's discuss the
Bengals draft. They had six picks. The top three were
Shamar Stewart, Demetrius Knight, and Dylan Fairchild.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
How did they do?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I look, I actually really liked what the Bengals were
able to do in the draft. I think that the
Shamar Stewart pick, obviously, I think that what's going on
with him and the contract situation, it.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Put the dark cloud over it.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Honestly, though, the way that I saw this is this
is kind of what they really wanted Miles Murphy to be,
except for just maybe like a higher ceiling type of
version of that. Not that Miles Murphy can't find a
place on the defensive line, whether it's on the interior
or the edge, but I think they were hoping that
he'd probably find more of a home and be more
dominant as an edge rusher. And I think they think
(04:17):
the same now of Shamar Stewart, who I think is
like Miles Murphy just almost super charged a little bit, right,
taking a super Mario mushroom or something with the size,
to strength, the explosiveness, all that good stuff. So I
know that the contract situation that he's currently in kind
of clouds that a little bit. But this is a
very talented football player and one who is a highly
regarded recruit for a reason, somebody who at texts A
(04:39):
and M really had to get on the field over
the last couple of years and develop him in any
way that he could.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And then of course you have this year starting with Nick.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Scorton there on that team, So I think it's still
going to be a little bit of time and development.
It's going to take a little bit of time for him,
but he's got an incredibly high ceiling.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I like the Dylan Fairchilds selection as well.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
This is an interior offensive line that really just had
to get a lot better from what it was last season.
And there's some familiar faces there, Ted Carris obviously one
of them playing at that center spot.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
But then it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Feels like those two guard spots are up for grabs
and it's sort of going to be a training camp
battle of who's going to come out and win those
and I think that Dylan Fairchild could very well. You know,
he's coming from such a highly successful program at Georgia.
He's faced some of the best interior defensive linemen in
the SEC over the last couple of years. So I
like the fact that they've either got him his depth
(05:24):
or maybe as an early starter. Here, Demetrius Knight was
somebody who you know, when I was looking at night,
I didn't get to him until sort of late in
the process. I didn't really know a lot about him.
And it kind of makes sense, right, I mean, he's
a Georgia Tech for all those years, plays but sort
of sparingly. Okay, maybe as one year left or I
think he had two years left of eligibility. But he
goes to Charlotte, so he kind of goes down in
(05:45):
competition a little bit, but he shows out really well.
So then all right, well, Charlotte to Columbia South Carolina.
That's not too far away. They've actually been able to
see me play. Let me go to South Carolina. And yes,
he is an older prospect, but man, you love what
he's able to bring to the table, in my opinion,
especially as a will linebacker, which is perfect for what
the Bengals need. Right They've got Logan Wilson in the
(06:07):
middle to be able to play that mike linebacker role
as the centerpiece of that second level of the defense.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now Demetrius Knight.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
He's a player who you know, when I watched him
and I first looked at his measurables, I was like, man,
you know, he's big enough to be able to play Mike.
I actually kind of like him as a Mike backer,
and I still think that he could be a good
Mike linebacker.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But really it's that run and chaseability.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
It's his fluidity and coverage and the potential that he
has there that really gets me excited. And so I
think he landed in a perfect spot where he can
play more as that in space linebacker. You know, Logan
Wilson's the one who's calling things out, He's getting the
run fits set everything like that, and then Demetrius can
play a little bit more in space and run and
chase a little bit more. So I think that that
gets a lot out of what he brings to the table.
(06:48):
I think Breck Carter kind of the same way, coming
from Clemson, another athletic linebacker to bring in that depth
and kind of get that same player there. And then
I'll just shout out Tis Brooks as well. You know,
when I was watching Tis Brooks, he had some of
my favorite vision of any running back in the class.
Now that is my as people ask me all the
time kind of about how I scout and what I'm
(07:09):
looking for and things like that, generally not to give
away too much of the secret sauce.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I don't really care. I love talking about it.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
But I have about ten categories for every single position,
and there are things like for running backs, for example,
it's you know, like how often they can make guys
miss elusiveness, you know what they are after contact, you
know their strength after contact, their vision.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Things like that, right, And it's not like all.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Those ten categories are just okay, it's one out of ten,
it's one out of ten. It's one out of ten,
and then we get to one hundred. That's a fine
way to do it. But as I've been scouting over
the years, I find tune in a little bit to say, like,
you know what, actually, visions the most important part for me,
and so I give it a little bit higher of
a weight, a higher percentage. So maybe out of ten
points instead, now vision might be out of sixteen or eighteen,
(07:54):
so there are more points to be gained, because I
think that that trait is more valuable if you can't
see the field the way that you need to. No
matter how fast yard, no matter how strong you are,
you're just gonna flame out in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Trent Richardson is a great example of that.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Look how incredible Trent Richardson was when he was at Alabama,
and yet he gets to the NFL. He just could
not read blocking schemes the way that he needed to.
He did not have that running back vision to match
the athletic traits. Taj Brooks a little bit of the opposite.
I'm not sure that he is the best caliber athlete
for the position, but man, can he see it? He
is patient, He knows where these blockers are going to be,
(08:30):
he knows where his aiming points are. He knows when
he needs to arrive to get past them, past the
line of scrimmage and into.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That second level.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
So it might not be a big home run hitter
for you, but I think there are going to be
a handful of plays throughout practice preseason whenever he gets
his chances to showcase his stuff. The Bengals could look
at him and say, man, all right, is he gonna
be the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Early down back for us all the time? No, but
especially if there are some.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Injuries, we feel good about the high football IQ this
guy has and putting him in the lineup. So that's
just sort of an overview of when I'm looking at
the names in their class, of this class some of
the thoughts that I had of them pre draft.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Trevor Sikramuff from Pro Football Focus is our guest. I
want to circle back to Shamar Stewart for a second.
Everybody is focused on the fact that he only had
four and a half sacks, and that's fair. It's certainly
a major point of discussion. I've made the case though,
that saying that he wasn't productive just because of that
stat is an overstatement because he was good against the run.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
He had a lot of pressures.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Is that how you felt about Shamar Stewart?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, so I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
He his tape looks different from a player that you
would say, like, oh, just you know, one and a
half sacks every single year. Like when you see a
player who has three years of either rotating and contributing
snaps or even starting snaps for them to have that
little production, I think that your mind immediately goes to like, Okay,
this guy can't play.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
He's not gonna make it, and you know, a.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Little bit of a puff in our chest here, I'd
say that this is all Shamar Stewart's a good example
of why PFF exists, in my opinion, because you get
to go beyond just the common stats there. And sometimes
the stats do tell the story correctly, but sometimes they don't,
and I think you need a little bit more context there.
In that regard, I will say this, The pass rush
metric that I like to lean on so much more
(10:15):
so than sacks is a passers win percentage, and for
Schmar Stewart that passor's win percentage of And just to
give people a barometer here, you know, like twenty five
to thirty percent of a pastor's win percentage how often
you're winning one on one against your matchup that is
(10:35):
in front of you, whether or not you make it
to the quarterback or not. Right, because it's independent of that.
Let's say that the offense is running a play where
the ball's coming out of his hands within two point
five seconds. Well, even if you're Trey Anderson, right, A
great example of somebody who wins one on one a
lot very quickly, even if he wins within the first
two seconds, well, he's not going to get a sack,
he might not even get a pressure because the ball's
(10:56):
coming out so quick.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But he still did his job. He's still won.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
And so pastors win percentage is something that's a little
bit more concrete. It's something that's a little bit more
stable that we can predict that we like to lean
on a little bit more. If you have a twenty
five to thirty percent pass or twin percentage, that's crazy.
That's like defensive player of the year type of category.
Twenty to twenty five is normally that tier one of
edge rusher's, the Trey Henderson's, the Miles Garretts, the Michael Parsons,
(11:19):
the TJ. Watts like those guys, a lot of them
in their best years, they're in that range fifteen to
twenty really good starting edge rusher. You get down to
ten to fifteen percent, it's like, okay, it's not bad.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Maybe a starter, rotational guy.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And if you're below ten percent, you're probably your team's
probably looking to upgrade your spot if that's how you
are consistently playing. Shamar Stewart was right around that fifteen
percent pass or twin percentage this past year. So it's
much more indicative of what this guy can do as
a pass rusher rather than just looking at the one
and a half sacks that he had. So he still
needs to put it together. I still think he needs
(11:52):
a better pass rush plant, specifically before the ball is snapped,
but at least that physical ability was able to show
out in that sort of metric. So that's the way
that I viewed Shimar Stewart. And you're right, strength wise,
length wise, overall body type, really good run defender as well.
You picked this guy because you hope that he has
a high floor because of his athletic and strength gifts,
(12:13):
and then also because of high he has a high ceiling.
Those are the types of first round picks that you
love to make, and hopefully we get to see him
on the field soon.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
One more draft related question before I changed the subject.
After the draft, the Bengals signed center Seth McLaughlan from
Ohio State and defensive tackle Eric Gregory out of Arkansas's
college free agents. Did you like either or both? And
did anybody else that they signed in the undrafted category
catch your eye?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
So I haven't seen their entire undrafted free agency list,
so I'll kind of like go down their their depth
chart and see if I recognize any names here. I
don't know a lot about Gregory, but I do know
a lot about McLaughlin, who, before he got hurt, man
he was playing very very well. And this is somebody
that before he even went to Ohio State, when he
was an Alabama he wasn't consistent.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
The way that he needed to be yet.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
But I watched him and I go, Okay, I mean
we've got something here. We've got something where very clearly,
whether it was as a sophomore or a junior, before
he got hurt and before he transferred over to Oiowa State,
he showed signs of like, all right, this guy kind
of plays the game like a pro, you know, like
the movement skills, they're quick, they're precise, He's thinking about
things the right way. Now, there are times when, okay,
(13:24):
it might show up he's not the most physically gifted
interior offensive lineman. Okay, he might get knocked off of
his balance and off of his feet a little bit.
Maybe it takes him a little bit more and asking
him to reach completely across the body. If you're talking
about an inside zone or an outside zone rushing play
like that's a little bit difficult for him, but he
does a lot of the really solid things well. And
(13:46):
I think it's traits like that when when you hear
stuff like that about an interior offensive lineman, you don't
have to worry as much as you would maybe if
you heard those exact same things about an offensive tackle,
because if you're an offensive tackle, you've got to kind
of be left on an island.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Well, when you're on the interior, actually when you were
at center, so much of what you're able to do
is chemistry based. It's so much around you know, Okay,
not only do I have to know my own strength
and weaknesses very well, because I.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Talk about I feel like I talk about that all
the time.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Interior offensive linemen have to self scout as good as
as good as anybody can, because you not only have
to know your own strength and weaknesses, you've got to
know the strength and weaknesses of the two guys next
to you, whether it's a tackle or in the center's case,
whether it's the two guards. So you got to know, like, okay,
well you know I got Let's say Fairchild wins the
starting gig right and and McLaughlin might be able to
(14:34):
go like, Okay, I got Fairchild next to me.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
All Right.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
He's a little bit lighter, but he is quick. So
if we're ever in a situation where I need him
to bounce off of one defensive tackle and help me out,
I know he's going to be able to do it.
So all that to kind of say, I hope that
he gets back to that pre injury form Seth McLachlin,
because I thought he was. He was playing at a
really high level before he ended up getting hurt. And
I just think that you already saw the baselines, whether
it was at Alabama or Ohio State of him preparing
(14:58):
and playing like a pro.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So I think that he was a really nice undrafted
free agent.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Dad, I actually have one more draft related question. It
goes back to last year's draft. The tackles last year
were thought to be historically good. Eight were taken in
the first round. A Marius Mims was the fifth tackle selected.
One year later, how high would a Marius Mims be
on that tackle list based on his rookie year?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Oh wow?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Okay, so the twenty twenty five class, let's take a
look at the offensive tackles and the guys that were
drafted there, Uh you had.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Will Campbell obviously went four harmon Membugo seven nine.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I meant last year's class.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So if the eight taken last oh oh, okay, Marius
was fifth. And I'm wondering based on the fact that
he got to play, he played well if if it
were done again, now, you know, would he be in
the top two or three? Would it be Joe Alton
then him, or would he be at the top.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, Like I so, I think the all still still
that top guy there. But man, it's basically anybody's It's
basically anybody to take that second offensive tackle spot.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It really is.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I mean, like Leatham obviously got some playing time. He struggled,
but he moved from left to right. The same exact
situation with Tolise Fuanga. Both of those guys. I like
the decent amount, but anytime you're throwing them on the
other side of the line of scrimmage, it's hard enough
as a rookie, and then when you're switching everything, it's
sort of tough to think about. But I think a
Marius at least like to your point, like he looked
as advertised when he was out there, Like, yeah, okay,
(16:29):
he's a little bit raw, but we knew that was
going to be the case with his experience coming out
of Georgia and him missing that the time at Georgia
due to injury. I think I think Olu Fashonu probably
is still well. I guess not still he was the
third offensive tackle taking he's probably the second guy. But
then yeah, I mean, Mims could very well have been
right there, picked within the top ten. I think that
(16:51):
he had a year where you feel good about it
moving forward. You know, did he like the world on fire?
Was it as good as Joe Alt?
Speaker 5 (16:57):
No?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Okay, but that's why Alt's going is the first defensive
tackle here in this discussion. But I really do think
that he gets picked eighteenth. You could very well make
a case for him to go fringe top ten if
this is sort of this redraft and be that second
or third offensive tackle take and probably, I would say
in the conversation for that third offensive tackle take in.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Trevor Sikoma from Pro Football Focus is our guest as
PFF's lead draft analyst. I'm sure you watched a lot
of Notre Dames defensive players over the last couple of
years and therefore saw Al Golden's defenses. What did you
think of the higher and do you expect significant improvement
in the Bengals defense specifically tied to Al Golden taking over.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, so I like Al Golden. I liked what I
saw from.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Him last year at Notre Dame. You know, an aggressive
style of defense, specifically in coverage, and I think that's
where you would really want to focus things for the
Bengals when you're sort of like looking at what could
be this season. I think specifically there is one player.
Dal Washerman did a really good job of pointing this
out as well my coast on the PFFNFL show.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Al Golden likes to play a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Of single high stuff, you know, and he had a
really good safety to be able to do it in
Xavier Watts last year. So you know, Wats is somebody
who I'm very excited about with him being in Atlanta
now getting to pair with Jesse Bates, who Bengals fans
obviously know very well. When you look at their current
situation with Al Golden coming over to Cincinnati, Geno Stone
(18:25):
is the player that I would want to highlight because
Geno Stone comes over from Baltimore, he does not have
a good season. In his first year in Cincinnati, his
coverage grade went from an eighty five point seven all
the way down to I believe it was a fifty
two point two or fifty two point three.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It just was not. It was a career low in
coverage grade.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Now, Luana Rumo was doing a lot of too high stuff,
like Cincinnati's sort of been leaning into that they've got
these two high safety looks, and Geno Stone was Yeah,
I think he was much more valuable when he was
in more of that single high situation, whether it was
with him as the free safety or sometimes as the
strong safety, the Robbert type over the middle.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Golden leans more into that.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Golden is more of a Cover one, Cover three, single
high safety type of a defensive shell, at least from
what we saw at Notre Dame. I think the best
coaches will always tell you, oh, you build the scheme
around the players.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So maybe it looks a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Maybe it's not as aggressive because he's going from having
Watts at the Notre Dame college level to now, okay,
it's the NFL. These guys are bigger, faster, stronger, I
think at every single position. But if they do lean
more into that. I think that gets more out of
Stone certainly as somebody who can then play as that
center fielder, free safety and coverage. I like Jordan Battle
in that situation as well, because when I watched him
(19:35):
at Alabama, he was very high at Football IQ all
the way back to his freshman season, as somebody who
could call things out, he control the middle of the field,
he could play in that robber role, he could play
down in the box. So I think that fits both
of those guys a little bit more. And then when
you were playing single high on the outside, sometimes it's
cover three, sometimes it's cover one, but a lot of
times it's man match, its zone match stuff. You still
(19:57):
have to be aggressive, think quickly, and get the mo
most out of some very agile, elusive and explosive corners.
That's what Dax Hill is, That's what DJ Turner is,
right like, That's why you drafted those guys so specifically.
I think a lot of times when you think about,
all right, well, new defense coming in, you know, what's
it gonna look like?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Is it you know? Is it three four? Is it
four to three? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
A lot of people talk about the box in the front,
with new defensive coordinators coming in, I am more focused
on what Golden is going to change for them on
the back end, because I feel like there were inconsistencies
there for the Bengals over the last couple of years really,
since they haven't had Jesse Bates back there to be
able to play that impactful safety role. And now with
the signing of Stone and him still being there, him
(20:40):
being a more advantageous situation, I think from the top down,
it's going to help this defense feel like those guys
are in their more proper spots.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
If you will.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We've got a few minutes left with Trevor Sikomuff from
Pro Football Focus, what are your biggest Bengals question marks?
Roughly a month before the start of training camp.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I think often line has to be the big one, right.
I think this unit really struggled along the interior offensive
line with Carris and Kappa and voltson last year, and
Carris was solid. I think I think it wasn't his
best year, but I feel like he did kind of
as well as he could, you know, with with some
of the injuries of the offensive tackles and the the
inconsistencies with the guys that were standing next to him.
(21:19):
Obviously they don't have Alex cap anymore, and he got
a handful of guys that are fighting for those guard spots.
But figuring out what the best starting three is on
that interior is paramount for them heading into training camp,
heading in the preseason, because there are so many teams
in the NFL that are leaning into interior pressure. Now
you know before and I look, the big money still
(21:41):
goes to the Miles Garretts, the Micah Parsons, the Nick Bosas,
it still goes to a lot of those edge rushers.
But there are a lot of defensive coordinators that realize
the shortest distance to the quarterback is right up the
middle in a straight line, and if you can disrupt
the center, if you can disrupt the guards, and if
you can get in those a gaps, that really causes
(22:01):
a lot of a fuss for quarterbacks, especially a guy
like Burrow, who are for as elite as he is,
you know, heast doesn't have He's not the best scrambler,
and so if you really pressure him immediately up front,
that's something that's going to kill the play I for
you're the Bengals, and so for a team that has
two phenomenal wide receivers in Jamar Chase and t Higgins.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
The Bengals really are.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
A team that I feel like are going to be
in a lot of shootouts every single year if they
are every single game, if those guys are fully healthy,
because it's basically a matter of can you protect Joe
Burrow for three seconds. If you can protect Joe Burrow
for three seconds the majority of the game, I will
tell you I will bet on those two receivers to
win more often than they lose. And I think the
Bengals are scoring, you know, twenty five thirty plus every
(22:43):
single game, so they're going to be led, in my opinion,
by their offense.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I think that's always going to be the case.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
For as much as I like the Al Golden Higher,
I think it is going to take a little bit
of time. They're still obviously going to be fixing things
on the defensive line. Getting Trey Hendrickson out there is
paramount because he felt like he was a man alone
last season. Getting Shamar Stewart out there by week one
of the regular seasons so that the second half of
the season and hopefully the playoff run, he is more
acclimated to what NFL speed and NFL life is when
(23:10):
the game is going on.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So I think that certainly.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
On the defensive line, you have those questions to get
those guys out there as well. But as long as
Hendrickson's out there and as long as Shamar Stewart are
out there, as long as those contract things get worked out,
I'm not as nervous about that. I'm still nervous about
that interior offensive line because if it is as ineffective
as it was last year, it's just such a killer.
So we saw this team come on and still overcome
(23:33):
things like that and really make a playoff push towards
the end of last year. But the interior offensive line,
that is the biggest question mark that I have for
the Cincinnati Bengals, because if it's good, I think this
can be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.
But if it's not, it could be a reason that
keeps them out of the playoffs in a tough division.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
All Right, that's a perfect segue to my last topic.
Baltimore's won the AFC North each of the last two years.
No team has ever wanted three years in a row.
So how do you handicap bau More, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and
Cleveland at this stage.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, I think that Baltimore has to be the favorites,
not that Cincinnati can't spoil them. I think they're right
there competing for what I would call is they're right
there with one of those wild card teams. Now, of
course it's the NFL. Crazy things happen all the time.
Maybe that race is closer than we think. At this point,
I'd feel like it's all I think the Ravens are
probably going to be two wins better than the Cincinnati Bengals,
(24:24):
whatever number that is, fourteen, thirteen, twelve, whatever that is.
I feel like they're going to be two wins better
than the Bengals this upcoming season. I think the Browns
are in for a long season, and I look at
the Browns long term out looking. Man, I have a
lot of respect for Kevin Stefanski as a coach, Tim
(24:44):
Schwartz a defense coordinator, but that roster has only been
getting worse.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I feel like as time has gone on.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Outside of a couple of the stars, certainly Miles Garrett,
they paid to be around there for a long time.
But man, just look at their offensive line I mean
Joel Buttonio White Teller, their former All pros. Both of
those guys didn't play well last year. Now they're both
above the age of thirty. Ethan Postics to undrestricted free
agent this upcoming season, so is Jack Conklin to want
Jones struggled and he's probably gonna start for them at
offensive tackle so very quickly. I think three years ago
(25:13):
Cleveland was thought of as one of the best offensive
lines in the NFL, and now I think that it's
bottom half of the league, maybe bottom ten, bottom five
in the league, depending on how those veterans are able
to play into their thirties. So it's tough there, especially
with the quarterback situation.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I have a lot of faith in the Cleveland Browns
to be super competitive. I feel like I've been trying
to hedge the Steelers like every year, but Mike Tomlin
just keeps winning enough to keep the five hundred Street going,
you know, with Rogers there, I think the defense is
still gonna be good.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
The offense, I just I don't know what the identity is.
I just don't like, you.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Go out and you trade for DK Metcalf and he's
sort of the same thing that George Picking was. It
doesn't really change your offense a lot. And now you
bring in a quarterback in Rogers, who, yeah, okay, I
think that just by nature he's going to be better
than a rookie and Will Howard and Mason Rudolph, who's
proven to not be a starting quarterback.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
In this league.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
But look at what Rogers has been the last two years.
This is like what Tom Brady was in the back
end of the Buccaneer years. He's trying to get the
ball out within two seconds. He's trying to hang onto
the ball. Now you have wide receivers where DK metcalf,
his whole thing is hold onto the ball for two
three seconds to throw it to me. Deep Rogers didn't
have as good of an arm as he used to,
and he doesn't want to hold onto the ball because.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
He's forty one, forty two years old. So I just
there's good players in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Obviously I have a ton of respect for Mike Tomlin
as a head coach, but I think their offensive philosophy
is just, certainly on paper, it's not very cohesive. So
I really do think it's a two team race, and
we'll see how close the Bengals can can get to
whatever win total the Ravens end up putting up this year.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Trevor, this has been great. I really appreciate your time.
Keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Appreciated that anytime.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Trevor obviously knows his stuff. If you would like to
hear more of his content, you'll find him on the
PFF NFL Podcast and the NFL Stock Exchange Draft Podcast.
You can also follow him on x at Tampa Bay Trey.
Now here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth Podcast
is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to be
(27:16):
the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future
Proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and
community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the
best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the
official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now time for five
observations and the topic on this edition of the pod
(27:38):
is first round draft pick Shamar Stewart. As of this recording,
the twenty one year old defensive end out of Texas
A and M has not signed a contract or a
waiver that would cover him in the event of injury
and allow him to practice until a deal is done.
Observation number one involves the coverage of this negotiation nationally.
(28:00):
It's being portrayed like the Bengals are cheap or trying
to insert a crazy and unusual clause that is somehow
holding up the deal. That's simply not true. The clause
is reportedly standard among other NFL teams. However, the language
is slightly different from the bengals last two first round picks,
(28:22):
and Stuart and his agent are fighting those changes. And
now some people are floating doom and gloom scenarios, including
the idea that Stuart could skip his rookie year and
re enter the draft next year. That is so far
fetched that it really doesn't deserve our attention. The second
pick in the draft, Heisman Trophy winner Travis Hunter, is
(28:45):
also unsigned, and I haven't heard anybody bring up that
possibility with him. History tells us that the Bengals and
Stuart will eventually reach a deal, hopefully in time for
the first practice of training camp. Here's defensive coordinator Al Golden.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
I've been around long enough to know these things. Sometimes
they take some time, or they're more complicated than they
are on their face, and we're hopeful to get this
resolved in the next five six weeks and get him
out there and really looking forward. I love the young man.
He's had a great attitude, he learns really well, he's
a tentive. He asked good questions, So from that standpoint,
(29:26):
he's doing everything we're asking.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Observation number two involves the notion that Stuart's status is
a big distraction. Here are Ted Carris and Zach Taylor.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
I don't think it's been a distraction. I think it's
more been a distraction for the fans mostly. I mean,
I know Twitter, Twitter's hot right now, and since he
Twitter doesn't mess around, and you know, obviously you don't
want that to be.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
You know, carry into you know, when it gets real.
This is uh, you know, like I said, I thought
of Produglis ring.
Speaker 7 (29:59):
This is a different time, and you know, I think
it's you know, how it's how it's played out has
been probably unfortunate for both sides.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
It gets a lot of attention to the media and
not as much attention in the locker room, and so
I think it's very easy for us isolate ourselves in
these walls. We spend a lot of time here you
get asked questions about it, but you just learned to
continue to keep it moving. So I think our players
are doing a great job just focusing on what's important
inside the walls. Getting our reps down to practice certainly
gets a lot of headlines and stories and all that,
but we don't worry about any that stuff. And it
(30:31):
could be a contract, it can be an injury, it
can be any sort of adversity that can strike all
thirty two teams in this league. It's all going to
come in different shapes and forms. It's how your team
handles adversity the best, and this team's got a history
of doing a great job handling adversity the right way.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If Stewart had a sore hamstring and was around every day,
sitting in on meetings but watching practice from the sidelines,
would that be viewed as a big distraction. No, So
what's the difference? And that leads to observation number three,
his lack of practice time. I don't want to be
a homer and say that it's insignificant. Every practice is meaningful,
(31:08):
and Chamar would benefit from getting reps. But there are
still six weeks of practices in three preseason games before
the regular season opener in Cleveland. Here's Shamar's former college
teammate who now has the locker next to him in Cincinnati,
McKinley Jackson.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
I don't focus on contracts and all that stuff. I
just tell him like staying the playbook and stay in shape.
And I care for him very very much beyond football,
Like he's a special guy, special person. Stands background. That said,
where he came from, and I know where you can go.
I know what he can do for this team. Like
I said, he's really special. So just I'm hoping that
(31:47):
all that gets figured upstairs. How all the time goes.
He's ready and he's stuck, he's died, ain't locked in
because he's the first runner for us. He's gonna have
to he's gonna have to play. So he's going to
get in and I have I have a bunch of
faith in him. Take four of a push every day.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Observation number four involves a possible silver lining. The Bengals
have a lot of young defensive linemen, and since Shamar,
Trey Hendrickson, and b J. Hill weren't on the field
during OTA's and Mini gamps in BJ's case dudo minor injury.
Guys like Miles Murphy, Chris Jenkins, Cedric Johnson, and McKinley Jackson.
(32:24):
We're getting extra reps here are Al Golden and Zach Taylor.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
It affects us in a positive way. As ironic as
that is, because you're already preparing for that injury when
it when it exposes itself. During the year, you forced
guys into playing multiple positions. H you know what we call,
you know, basically just horizontal depth. You know, ends playing tackle,
tackles playing end, some linebackers playing on the edge, those
(32:49):
type of things. So I think from that standpoint, we
always see the we always see the good in it
and the opportunity. Uh And I'm being serious on that.
Some guys have really taken advantage of their reps in
their opportunity and obviously I think will be more formidable
when those guys come back.
Speaker 8 (33:04):
It's been really good for guys as we build that depth.
Guys were fighting for opportunity in that way. It's been
a very positive thing. I think Al and our staff
has done a great job, especially on outside of the ball,
practicing with intent every single day. The install what we're
trying to achieve holding guys accountable, and the players have
(33:25):
really bought in and that's been exciting for me to see.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
My fifth and final observation is about what we're going
to see when Schamar gets on the field. As I
mentioned in my conversation with Trevor Sikkima, I think there's
been too much focus on what Chamar didn't do well
in college than where he excelled. Pro Football Focus graded
him number five in the country among defensive ends at
(33:48):
stopping the run and had him tied for twenty fifth
in the Power Conferences in most quarterback pressures, even though
he only had one and a half sacks last year.
Here's Bengal defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
We're literally talking about him missing sacks. But the guy
with his violent in the run game, he affects the
quarterback at a high rate. When I say affected, he's
back there right first year playing, truly starting, so he's
just got to learn how to finish. But more importantly,
(34:23):
he's beating up on tight ends. He is destroying tackles
run in pass. His effort and play style is phenomenal.
Like his his effort to the ball is he leaked. Okay, Now,
like I told everybody, if if he just finishes on
let's let's just say he gets I don't know, you
(34:46):
call it six seven sacks. You know what, he's not.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
A Cincinnati bank.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
That's that to me is the biggest thing. And so
people judged him off of that. But you got to
remember it first time doing it. When I say first
time doing it, it was a first year start. So as
he grows and develops as a player, I think the
skies are the limit. And like I always compare similar
(35:12):
deal to Rashaun Gary when he was coming out. You know,
he had all the traits, but he had he had
good pressure productions, but he didn't have the sac production. Well,
he gets to the league, he gets goes up, he's
on an edge more than he's been in college. And
then all of a sudden he he has two productions,
(35:35):
THENDO too, Bowl, those type of things. So but again,
like I said, if he had the numbers would have
been long gone. I'm saying top five, he was by
far the most explosive player in the draft.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You heard it. Jerry Montgomery says that Stewart has the
talent worthy of a top five NFL draft pick, and
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It's only a matter
of time before he's under contract. That's going to do it.
For this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to
you by Pai Core, Proud to be the Bengals Official
(36:09):
HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet
designed to elevate your home, business and community to a
new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for
the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider
of the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please
subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute,
give it a rating or share a comment that helps
(36:32):
more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks
so much for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast
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