Bengals Booth Podcast: Secret

Dan Hoard and Dave Lapham take an in-depth look at the upcoming NFL draft and share their predictions for Cincinnati's selection at 17th-overall.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading
the Bengals Booth Podcast The until You Share Your Secret
with Me. Addition, as Dave Lapham joins me for an
in depth look at the upcoming NFL draft, culminating with
our predictions for who the Bengals are going to pick

(00:24):
at number seventeen. Overall, The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought
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(00:44):
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(01:52):
Now time for my final pre draft podcast with Dave Lapham,
which is typically one of the most downloaded episodes of
the year, since everybody wants to know who lap thinks
the Bengals are going to pick. Lap Let's start with
the all important need question. What is the number one

(02:12):
thing the Bengals must get in this draft?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, I think when you look at it, Dan, in
my mind, it's an interior, offensive and defensive lineman, and
I probably have to say offensive lineman more so. You know,
you do have a couple of young prospects that you
drafted last year in the second and third round at
the defensive tactical position.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know, that.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
That you're you're you're working with and you're trying to
improved from year one to year two. And I thought
they were both worthy of being selected, you know where
they were Jenkins McKinley in the second and third round, respectively.
But rookies are are exactly that. Rookies are young players

(02:57):
that need to learn a little bit. And I think
they went through that learning process. Uh, Jenkins obviously had
the injury that slowed him down. A hand injury to
a defensive lineman or an offensive lineman is brutal. When
you can't you're allowed to use your hands in the
National Football League and when the other guy can't you
can you can't.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's very tough.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
So, you know, I do think that they will address
the interior of the defensive line at some point. I
do think though, that the interior of the Bengals offensive
line that that definitely needs to be addressed. Uh, you know,
you you, uh, you have a situation where it's a
it's anybody's anybody's job right now at that at that
guard position. And I think that it's going to be

(03:41):
a very very big competition. You know, you sign one
in free agency and and I think Patrick's a good player,
There's no question about that. I think you know he's
a He's a guy that that is worthy of being signed.
The Bengals do sign him to that contract and unrestricted
free agency. Cordell Wolson that put on the bench toward

(04:04):
the end of the season last year, so he's going
to have to come back hard and compete for a
position inside. And Cody Ford has shown that position versatility
that's all so important. You know, he played both tackles
and both guards last year for of the five positions,
and I think you know he'll get a shot at

(04:26):
that guard position, one of the guard positions, and rightfully so.
But I do think that all things being equal, I'm
not saying you necessarily do it at seventeen if there
are other things available that might not be as big
a priority but would make your football team better, because
I do think that staying along the lines of the

(04:48):
best available player is the best way to go.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
That's the way you improve your roster.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
I'm with you to me, the number one need is
getting a starting guard, but you don't necessarily have to
do it in round one. You ticked off the list
of guys that they have and Hopefully new offensive line
coach Scott Peters works with that group and a solid
starter emerges, but they need to. Alex Kapp is gone,
Cordel Bowlson his bench. So yeah, I think out of

(05:18):
that group that you described, you can reasonably assume that
a good starter is going to emerge. I just think
hoping for two out of that group would be rolling
the dice. So they could still sign Brandon Sheriff, Dalton Reisner,
Will Hernandez somebody after the draft if they don't get
the type of player they like. But this looks to
be a really good draft for guards. You've got Calvin

(05:40):
Banks would be converting from tackle to guard in the NFL,
Tyler Booker, Gray Zabel, there are Day two guys Donovan Jackson,
Jonah Savoy and Nya Marcus bo Tate Ratlich and others.
Let's invest the necessary draft capital to get a quality guard.
It's going to help protect Joe Burrow for several years

(06:04):
to come. This is the year to do it for me.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And and I think another guy, Tristan Cologne guy out
of Arizona, an interior you know, offensive Lineman has been
another Like you said, Dan, you rattled off you guys
on my list, and uh and and UH, you know,
there there are probably others that the Bengals feel confident about.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
So I do.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
I do think that that that position will be addressed,
and in my opinion, UH, i'd like to seeing address.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
More than once.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
And the way that they're going to do that is,
I think they move back in the draft, uh with
that seventeenth pick. If you know, they're right in the
middle of the first round, and they've they've always got
groupings of players you know, at each at each spot
uh in the draft, and the Bengals with that, with
that seventeenth selection, as it's as it's coming up, you know,
it's like, okay, well we've got a few of our

(06:54):
uh guys that we've got in a grouping. But man,
if we can back a few and still have you know,
two or three of our grouping of five available to us,
let's do that. Because they've got pick seventeen, they've got
forty nine. They don't pick till forty nine in the
second round, and then in the third round they don't

(07:14):
pick until eighty one. So if they can get you know,
another second round pick or another third round pick and
address the offensive black Zech Ruth. I don't necessarily think
it's going to be a pick seventeen, but if they could,
if they do get an extra pick in the second
or third round, I don't necessarily think you have to
go offensive lineman back to back, you know, selections. You know,

(07:37):
if you have two second round picks, you've got to
do two interior alignement with those two second round picks,
or two thirds the same going with an interior alignment twice.
But I do think that there's it gives you an
opportunity to double down, you know, and maybe increase the
odds of one of them being the kind of football
player that you were hoping. And can you really give

(07:59):
you some quality staffs in that in that rookie season,
you know, I know, I know Zach and as Prusser
you know, said that they're not not looking for rookies
to start. They've got starters everywhere. They feel comfortable with that.
But in that and that should be you know, that
should be his message. I mean, everybody has to compete
for a position. But I know there's there's good players

(08:22):
out there, and and the guys, the guys that I
really like, I like the way he plays, I like
his career path. I like the kind of person he
seems to be as well as football player Will Campbell
out of l s u Uh. You know this guy.
We talked about it a lot. Okay, boy, this position versatility.

(08:42):
This guy can play guard and tackle. I haven't played
you know, all five, all five of the positions I can.
In my mind, it was easier to transition physically from
tackle to guard to move inside from tackle to guard,
but mentally much different situation. The speed of the game
is a lot quicker.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
You have to make calls, You have to be quick minded,
You have to recognize what the what the defense is
trying to do from a structure standpoint. You have to
make an appropriate call with blocking patterns take care of that.
So there's a lot bigger challenge mentally kicking inside from
from tackle to guard. The tackle doesn't really have to
worry about a lot of that. Tackle just has to

(09:25):
take care of his lane, you know, on that outside
the traffic on the interstate. It's a lot busier inside
with the between the the guards in the center, with
the defensive tackles and the linebackers that can play with
you and mess around and bringing safeties up into the
box and all that sort of thing. So sometimes guys
struggle a little bit with that. Physically not an issue

(09:48):
from to slide from tackle to guard, but mentally, you know,
can they handle it?

Speaker 3 (09:52):
And it seems like.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
There's a lot of a lot of guys that have
already played both, so they've proven that, and I think, uh,
there's a lot of guys that are capable of playing
both but haven't been asked to yet. From a mental standpoint,
it seems like there's a pretty good group. And that's
the thing I think in general about this draft in
is the depth. You know, I mean every position group

(10:13):
has got some depth to it. I mean, the running
back position is ridiculous. You know, there's all there's all
kinds of depth there. The wide receiver position has a
ton of depth to it as well, And the Bengals
aren't necessarily in the market for, you know, for either
of those positions, but I mean there's there's so many
of them and their quality. You know, when when your

(10:34):
pick comes up, whatever it is, what round it is,
I mean that may be one of those one of
those position groups, maybe the best available athlete on the board,
and you pull the trigger on it because you're always
looking to improve your football team.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
But I think that bodes well.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
You know, It's like there's there's maybe a little bit
of a dip after the first I don't know, somewhere
between five and ten picks, a little bit of a depth.
Then it goes for and then there's not a fall
off the cliff gip. I mean, there's maybe another little dip.
But well, I'll tell you, you know, you get into
the into the uh you know, second, third, and fourth rounds,

(11:11):
even the fifth round. There's good football players there. There's
there's no question about it. That's why I think trading
back and accumulating another one, you know, makes some sense.
The Bengals only have six draft picks. They've traditionally had
had more than that in the last few years. I'd
like to see it happen again.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
I do think they're going to trade back. I think
it's most likely in round two. I was taking a
look at Round one, specifically at the team's picking, you know,
within a few spots behind them, and trying to take
note of who had extra picks, and the one team
that could conceivably make sense is Houston. They've got the
twenty fifth pick, they've got an extra third rounder, and

(11:53):
their GM, Nick Casserly is a wheeler, wheeler and dealer.
I think he's averaged five draft trade a year since
he's been their GM, so he loves to, you know,
move up, move back, move up, move back. So it
would have to make sense for somebody that Houston wants.
If you look at one of those trade value charts,

(12:13):
the value comes close to matching up with the twenty
fifth pick for the seventeenth pick plus a third rounder.
So you know, from a trade value stand up maybe
or standpoint rather maybe. But I really think the more
likely scenario is the second round because in recent years
that's when the Bengals have done it. They have made

(12:34):
a second round draft trade. In five out of the
last eight years. They've moved down four times. They've moved
up once when they moved up three spots to to
get Cam Taylor Britt. So what can they get if
they moved down in the second round? And again, look
at one of those trade value charts, every spot you

(12:55):
go back is worth ten points. So if you go
back five spots, it's worth fifty points on the draft chart.
If you go back ten it's worth one hundred points
on the draft chart, fifty points is a fourth round pick.
One hundred points is a low third round pick. So
that's the kind of pick they could get by moving

(13:18):
back in the second round. And I really think that
that makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, and I, like we talked about a little bit earlier,
the draft is still deep at that point. You know,
it's not like, oh man, you move back, you're sacrificing
an opportunity to get the better football players.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
There's still a lot of them there. You know.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
If you can move back and stay in the second, third,
and fourth round, get an extra third round pick by
moving back a little bit in the second round. I
do that all day, every day in this particular draft,
because the draft is.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Hall of famer nah, I mean, you can't make any
he call on a Hall of famer even before they
take a snap in the National Football League, even before
you know what what team they're going to does the
team's uh way you're doing things fit what that player's
talents are, uh physically you know some That's the thing.
The draft is such a crapshoot because you're going to

(14:18):
match the skill set of the player with the schematic
that you're running and is there a fit there? And
if there's not, does the player have the physical capabilities
of adjusting to your schematic? And there's a lot that
goes goes into that, and you're starting to roll the
roll the dice a little bit. So I mean you
never have slam dunk. Oh yeah, I mean if we
can get an extra third round pick, we know this

(14:38):
guy is going to be, you know, a potential pro bowler. Dah,
you don't. You don't even know if your first round
is going to be a potential pro bowler. But the
key is increasing your odds of finding you know, that
type of player, you know. And and the great Paul Brown,
his his whole mindset, uh was, was draft, develop, and
retain that That's what that's what he built is his uh,

(15:00):
his legend on and it certainly was a very unbelievable
legend that he built. And and he was the master
and you know, identifying, you know, the first thing you
have to do is identify, uh, the player does it
does is it a fit like we just talked about,
and then you know, draft him accordingly appropriately and then
developed that player and then when that first contracts up,

(15:23):
retain them you know, don't uh, don't go through the
whole process of of uh, the the cost and and
the the commitment, the work commitment that that your franchise
is doing to develop the player all from the management
to the coaches, to teammates to whatever, and let somebody
else benefit, you know. On the second contract, the retention

(15:44):
part of it was big for Paul.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Lap on your In the Trenches podcast. You've done some
great recent episodes with Mike Potts and Stephen Radissovich from
the Bengals personnel department. Based on those conversations and your
own research, does the strength of this draft bit the
Bengals needs.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
I really believe so, you know, I think that, uh,
that it does. I mean, you know, I think the
biggest need obviously is the interior of the offensive and
defensive line, like we talked about. But uh, if you
draft a guy at the tackle position and he proves
to be uh, you know, that's that's his best spot.

(16:24):
Can never have enough tackles, you know, I mean, uh,
if God forbid injury or or or whatever. An offensive
tackle is a is a key commodity in the National
Football League. Somebody that can can play that spot and uh,
if it's going to take a while for him to
maybe you know, be a big contributor at the tackle position,

(16:44):
or if.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
He can while he's in the weight as such.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Uh, you know, then then of course if he can
kick in the guard and solve that problem, you know,
that's huge. So I mean, drafting a guard is a
big key. But again, I think if you can find
a tackle that has that position flexibility and versatility, I
think that's a that's a that's a big deal.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Interior defensive tackle position I think is pretty deep. You know,
you have the g men out of Michigan and they're
they're slated to go Graham and Grant, they're slated to
go maybe a little bit a little bit higher. But
you know, I think I think the defensive tackle position
is is very very deep. And then the edge rush position,
I mean, there's a bunch of good edge rush guys.

(17:30):
And in the National Football League, a big thing that
you need is somebody to heat up the passer, get
after the quarterback and not necessarily you know, running up
a huge tab sacks all that, although that would be great,
but just pressuring him even uh is viotally important. And uh,
you shrinking the pocket on the quarterback, not letting the

(17:52):
quarterback just stand there comfortably in the pocket and and
pick you apart, or maybe climb the pocket and buy
time to pick you apart. And when you push the pocket,
you obstruct his vision. So the middle of the football
field becomes cloudy for the quarterback. And that's always a
big deal.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
You know. He sometimes they're throwing the football.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
And they're hoping and guessing a little bit that it's
going to be, you know, where they hope to successfully
make a completion.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
So it that I think, I think that's a that's
a big deal.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
But I do think there's there's depth that just about
every position group in this in this draft, it may
not be a draft that has you know, more Hall
of famers potential Hall of famers than any other draft
in the history of the National Football League.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Or more Pro Bowl.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Players in the early stages of their career than any
other draft in the history of the National Football League.
There's a lot of damn good football players in this
draft that can help help you build out a roster
and improve your franchise in the National Football League. And
I think the Bengals, you know, hopefully take full advantage
of it, and again like to see him get another

(18:58):
pick in so doing.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
I do think that the strength of the draft is
the trenches, and that obviously would fit the Bengals needs.
And I think it's worth pointing out that while it
is good in the trenches this year, it's not necessarily
a great offensive tackle draft, unlike last year. If Amarus
Mims was in this draft, I think he's one of

(19:22):
the top tackles on the board. He might go top
ten or top five if he were in this draft.
And last year, because there were so many great tackles,
he was the fifth tackle taken and the number eighteen
player overall. So strength and need lined up really nicely
for the Bengals last year. And then looking at it
in a different way, it sounds like the relative weakness

(19:47):
of this draft is quarterback and wide receiver. Not that
there aren't good ones, but there may be aren't great ones.
It sounds like the wide receivers in particular, you know
a bunch of good ones, a bunch that will play
for you, but not necessarily number ones. And who knows
about the quarterbacks, they seem like it's kind of a
crapshoot year where the quarterbacks are concerned. In this division,

(20:10):
the Browns and Steelers need quarterbacks. They'll probably use a
high pick on a guy that will be forced to
play at some point, and if he turns out to
be a bus that could sent two of their rivals
back a little bit. So I think it's a year
where not only do the strengths fit the Bengals needs,
but the weaknesses don't help some of their key rivals.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
I agree, I agree, and I think you know this draft.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Quarterbacks are always the value of the quarterback is paramount
in the National Football League. Obviously, quarterback if it's not
the most important position, and it is the most important
position in football, if it's not the most important position
in all of sports, I don't know what. I don't
know what other position is. So everybody's looking for their quarterback.

(21:00):
And and for that reason, you know, cam Ward, Shadura,
Sanders Jackson, darn those guys. And I hope every one
of them. I hope they all go in the top five.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
I hope, I hope.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
They they go up and they're shaking the Commissioner's hand
right away, you know, I mean, I hope, I hope
that's the h I hope that's the case as many
of those guys and as many wide receivers as possible.
So when it does get down to seventeen, the Bengals
have a plethora. It's like, man, are you kidding me?
We're definitely trading back. We've got we've got options at

(21:35):
the interior offensive line position, in the interior defensive line position.
We have options in multiple, multiple spots. But if for
some reason, you know, a player is sliding, it's like
because of that, because all the quarterbacks and other people
are being taken, you know, early early on in the
in the draft. And I don't think the Bengals move up,

(21:58):
but they could very well stay at seventeen. They say, man,
it might make sense to sit tight here because look
at some of the stuff that's falling.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
I mean, it's like, let's let's be patient, let's be prudent.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
And uh, you know, they they they showed that, uh
the Joe Burrow Draft. They draft Joe Burrow and they
sit tight and there's uh, there's Te Higgins, you know,
sitting there at the uh at the with the thirty
third pick of the draft, and the and the Bengals,
you know, they they had targeted him and he was wanted.
When he fell to them, it was incredible that that

(22:32):
he was there, and they were very very fortunate and blessed,
and lo and behold there's Logan Wilson, you know, in
the third round. So they get three guys that they
in that draft that they had identified, you know, as
as guys that they they held in high regard, and
all three of them, you know, fall to them. So
sometimes patience is a virtue, uh, not only in life
in general, but in the draft as well. And the

(22:54):
Bengals have shown that they've shown an ability to trade
trade back. So so it'll be interesting to see how
how how draft day doesn't pulled and how early some
of these quarterbacks go, because they're always going to be
picked earlier than I'm not saying that they deserve necessarily,

(23:14):
but earlier than anticipated. I mean a lot of a
lot of people. And it all depends on your need.
I mean, if you need a quarterback, hell, you're going
to have them all up there, real high on your
on your draft board. If you're like the Bengals with
Joe Burrow, they're not. Everybody's draft board is different for
those reasons. Based on those needs. That's why everybody has
a uh, you know, has an organizational mock draft, and

(23:37):
there's thirty two of the of franchises and thirty two
drafts mock drafts of those franchises. They're all going to
be different because every one of them has has a
different need, and maybe the top fifty players that each
each team puts on the board could be similar, and
there may be just a little bit of movement, you know,

(23:59):
and some of those positional rankings because of need, you're
always going to factor need in. So the fact that
the Bengals don't need a quarterback, I think is anytime
you go into a draft not needing the important position
to function as a team, you're in pretty good shape.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Lap the Bengals top thirty visits included Ohio State running
backs Trayvon Henderson and Quinn Shawn Judkins. Henderson's projected as
a second round pick. Judkins is projected as a second
or third round pick. They've got Chase Brown, They're bringing
back some JP Ryan. This week, it was announced that
they've renegotiated a contract with Zach Moss. So, assuming his

(24:41):
neck is okay, it looks like he could be back.
What do you make of the Bengals interest in these
early round running backs.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, you know, I think, like we talked about, the
running back position is probably the star position in this
year's draft in terms of quality player depth, and I
think as much as anything doing their due diligence. You know,
another guy like is Omarion Hampton out of North Carolina.
I think you know, he's got size, he's got uh skills.
I mean, there's so many of these running backs that

(25:12):
they're not just able to run. They can, obviously, but
they're not a one trick pony. It's not Oh, give
them the football and they can. They can run the
football and that's it.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Now.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
These guys they run the football at a high level,
but then they can run routes and catch the football
at a high level. And most importantly or very importantly
in the National Football because we talk about how it
being a passing league, and Joe Burrow in the Cincinnati
Bengals are very much and not an embarrassed or ashamed

(25:43):
to say that we throw the football. So you got
to have your running backs to be able to put
their nose in right down the middle of people and
pick them up and blitz, pick up and that's where
Samaji p run I think that's such a big acquisition
and as an understood to free agent because man, I mean,
he's a big guy under six feet tall, but Wayne

(26:03):
two unning thirty pounds, you know, and he has to
make you miss to him, and he can run you
over as well.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
There's nothing a defender hates more than.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
A back, like, oh, man, do I go in there
and anchor hard because he's gonna try to run me over.
But if I do that, he's gonna make me miss.
And if I go in there soft, he's gonna lower
his pads and run me over.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
And Somaji can do that at that type of thing
to you in the running game. And then he's always
been a really good rout runner and capture the football.
And since he's been with the Cincinnati Bengals and now back,
he was good at blitz pick up, but he's become outstanding.
I mean, he's one of the best blitz pickup guys
in all of football. He sticks his nose right down

(26:43):
the middle of people and no no matter who they are,
if it's a linebacker, that is his responsibility. If he's
doesn't have any blitzer, if he has to help an
offensive lineman that may have been having some trouble and
getting beaten by a defense. He'll stick his nose right
in there on that defensive lineman. I mean, he's he's
a valuable, valuable asset. So I mean, I think a
lot of these running backs give you, you know, that

(27:05):
type of thing, and there's there's a good number of them,
so I think you do your due diligence, and you
can never have enough of those guys either. And so
it'll be interesting to see how high a running back
does go to the Cincinnati Bengals, because it looks like
you know they're going to address that position at some
point in time. And as Paul Brown, the Great Paul

(27:28):
Brown said as well, you can never have enough players
to put points on the board for you.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
The guys will score touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
So when there's a guy that can score touchdowns that's
available to you in the draft and a spot that
you felt there's no way in hell that person was
going to be there, you got to pull the trader man.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I was a little surprised that they brought those Ohio
State guys in only because I can't see them using
a high pick. This year on a running back, but
Chase Brown was a fifth round pick, number one sixty
three overall. I think there are a lot of Chase
Browns in this draft. I feel like I saw about
six of them in the Big twelve. I mean, you

(28:07):
see is Corey Kiner as a really good football player.
I think he can play in the NFL. I don't
think he's going to get drafted this year, just because
there are so many good running backs in the Big twelve.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
R J.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Harvey from UCF, DJ Geddons from Kansas State, Cam Skataboo,
who is awesome for Arizona State, TOAJ Brooks from Texas Tech,
Devin Neil from Kansas. It seemed like every team had
an NFL caliber running back and they're probably all Day
three guys. Maybe one of the guys I mentioned sneaks

(28:41):
into the third round, like Skataboo, but I think most
of those guys that I mentioned will either be Day
three or maybe even undrafted free agents. So if you're
looking to add depth at running back, you don't have
to do it high this year.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
No question, no question about it. And you know the combine.
I got a copy of the players that showed up
at the combine. And that doesn't mean you know that
there's a player out there that's going to get drafted
that that you know wasn't at the combine, or wasn't
it wasn't at the combine.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
But you know, the.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Combine is a pretty good example of what NFL teams
think about about players. And for example, they're there are
from an offensive lineman standpoint twenty five caliber center guard,
interior offensive line candidates went to the combine. I'm looking
at I don't know, maybe a half a dozen that

(29:38):
the Bengals would have significant interest in same thing. You know,
for the tackle position, twenty five of those and there's
you know, maybe half a dozen.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
The running back position they had the most.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
I mean, they had so many people to combine and
they might have had a dozen guys that I think, Man,
you know what, you got to take a second look
at this guy. You're gonna maybe take a third look
at this guy. And even even if you're set at
the running back position, the the the odds of an injury,
unfortunately at the running back position a hell of a

(30:13):
lot more than they are at the at the tackle
position or the guards position or whatever else. So you
can never have enough of those of those type of players,
So I do. I do believe there's gonna be a
lot of running backs drafted in this draft, for sure,
And then they don't. They'll they'll come as as college
free agents and have a legitimate chance of making a
football team or a practice squader, or where the case

(30:35):
may be.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
The Bengals first third round pick last year was Jermaine Burton.
He's still on the roster, so the Bengals have not
given up on him, but will last year's experience where
they took him despite some red flags, have any impact
on what they do in this year's draft.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
You always learn lessons, you know, and and if if
it doesn't work out, and you're you know, you're you're
getting close to that fire and you got it. You
know you're you're out and it's a cold evening, you
want to get your body warm. You get close to
that fire, and close to that fire, then all of
a sudden you get so close and it burns you
so and uh and in that situation you make a

(31:16):
call and uh and and you roll the dice and
and might get burned a little bit. I think every
case is an individual study. I heard Zach Taylor talk
about that that phraseology in his press and I thought
that was a that was a good good way to
put it. Every player is an individual case study. So

(31:39):
but but part of of what you experienced there, you
learn from it and you put it in the memory
bank and you put it in the files that you
can reference back to from an organizational standpoint, So I
do think that there was.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
A learning uh.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Uh, a lesson learned, I think in the drafting of Burton.
And I do think that Burton was a highly regarded
I mean, you know, mid first round caliber type player,
and they got him in the third you know, and
so they probably thought, you know, a third round pick
is still a valuable pick, and ain't the middle of
the first round. So maybe we maybe we take a

(32:19):
little bit of a chance here and and uh and
see what happens. And that's not to say that that
Burton doesn't grow from his mistakes. You know that he
made last year from a behavior standpoint, But the the
the alarming thing is that the pattern continued, you know,

(32:39):
I mean, you hope that now that he's a pro
and he's making money and has an opportunity to make money,
that would would take care of his family for multiple generations,
potentially might give him a little inkling to change some
of his ways, and the fact that it necessarily didn't
can be alarming. So yeah, there's a lot to be

(33:03):
learned there for sure. But again, as Zach said, every
player is an individual case study.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
The Bengals had three extra draft picks last year. They've
got one fewer than they should have this year. One
of those extra picks last year was in the third round,
So they took a calculated risk on Jermaine Burton because,
as you mentioned, he had first round talent, and at
least so far, it hasn't worked out very well. I

(33:34):
don't think it was a bad gamble every team. Yeah,
every team takes calculated risks in the draft. Sometimes we
know about it, sometimes we don't. They often work. Randy
Moss and Warren Warren Sap had red flags during the
Hall of Fame. Jalen Carter had major red flags a
couple of years ago. He just helped Eagles win the

(33:55):
Super Bowl. You do your best on those individual case
studies to evaluate the person and decide if he's worth
the risk. I don't see the Bengals taking big risks
this year because they only have six picks, not because
they are scared off from what happened with Jermaine last year.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
I agree one hundred thousand percent with that. Dan.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
And you know, it's it's funny when you're talking about
although it's not quite the same these days with college
football because you have multi millionaires playing the college football
transfer a portal, money and all that kind of thing,
and money to keep players out of the transfer for
a portal. I mean, it's it's it's a crazy uh,

(34:34):
it's a crazy deal now in college football. But I
remember back in the day, one concern that organizations had
was how will money change a guy? You know, it's like,
here's a guy that through high school and college, maybe
even earlier than that, his way out of a tough
way of life with sports and and you know, realized

(34:58):
that he had to, uh, somebody let them down the
proper path of Okay, make sure you keep track of academics,
where uh the fact that you might be progressing with
your athletic career, your academic career doesn't allow you to advance,
you know you're going to be in trouble. So you know,
you get guys that some guys fell off the off

(35:21):
the wagon after their high school careers because they didn't
take advice about the academics. Guys that took advice about
academics go to the collegiate ranks and and and you know,
continue to develop and build their careers. And then they
go to the National Football League and make money. And boy,
I'll tell you, I saw I saw cases of it.

(35:42):
You know, guys would get that uh that signing bonus
and and be different guys. I mean, the the the
irresponsibility portion of their of their personality came out, you know,
full force.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Man.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I mean it was crazy. And they couldn't get the
money in the bank positive quickly enough to cover the
fact they were buying them as erati or whatever. I mean,
it's like, oh, man, are you kidding me? Uh so, yeah,
It's it's interesting. It's you don't know how things are
going to affect players and maybe change them a little bit.

(36:16):
And every every single draft pick I shouldn't say every
single but a high percentage of the draft picks, or
if there's there's some risk involved, you know, there's some
you don't know exactly what you're gonna get, Like like
when the Bengals selected Kenny Anderson, and he panned out
like he did. You know, they felt like they knew

(36:36):
what they were going to get and they got it.
Joe Burrow, they felt like they knew where they were
going to get and they got it. Boomer Sisen. They
felt like they knew where they were going to get
and they got it. And that you know, that's just
the most important position of the quarterback position. But there
have been a ton around the league where it hasn't
panned out that way, and for the Bengals as well
at the quarterback position, UH in other positions. So the

(36:56):
draft is it's referred to as a crapshoot for reason,
and a good reason.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Really, did you get a Maserati with your signing bonus?

Speaker 3 (37:07):
No, I was.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I was already married when and I get married right
before UH training camp started my rookie year, and so
I responsibly purchased a a Chevrolet Monte Carlo.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
But that was the first car I ever owned, man,
I mean I didn't have I didn't have two Nichols
in that regard, and it was I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's like wow, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
It wasn't what I guess you'd consider the family car
as such. But I didn't go crazy, but I you know,
I kind of wanted a little bit of Hey did
Monty Carlo? Yeah, cruise around Wakefield mask will be Hey
what up?

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Boys? Yeah? Remember me? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Much more with Lap to Gum, including our first round predictions.
But first, here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth
podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to
be the Bengals Official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health

(38:14):
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. All right, we
are going to get to our predictions in just a bit,
But first, do you have a few Day two or
Day three guys that you like?

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Donovan Jackson out of Ohio State, Uh, I'd like I
like looking at uh at him a little bit as
as an offensive lineman. I'm not sure where Luke Candor
out of you see, you know all about him Dan
Elder High School went to Louisville. You know, I think
I think he's uh, he's a guy that, uh that

(38:54):
has some potential. Charles Grant out of William and mary
as A as an interior offensive lineman, I think, uh,
you know, has has some uh.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Some potential appeal.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Kate Ratlic, you know, I think I don't think he's
necessarily a first rounder, but you know, second or third
round I jump all over all over that.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
I think Josh.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Simmons, I think uh uh seven eah, like you mentioned
out of Arizona. I think those guys will probably be gone.
Jared Wilson out of Georgia. He's a center, but could
he play guard? I mean, you know, you think maybe
maybe that would be the case. I know long teams
have grays abel as A as a first rounder, maybe

(39:37):
a late first rounder. I'm not sure. I'm not sure
he'd be there, you know, in the second round. I
think the Bengals would have to maybe you know, move
up to get him. But he might be there, you know,
in the late second round. And a guy like that,
potentially uh Jordan Phillips out of Maryland, big defensive lineman,

(40:01):
they might be able to even get him in the
fourth or fifth round. I think I think that guy
is one, that one that might hold some some merit
in that regard.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Dion Walker out of Kentucky, Big old beast.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I'm not sure he goes in the first round, but
would he be there in the second potentially? I mean,
the three and forty five pounds space eater man. He's
a he's a he's a powerful human being.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
TYLERK. Williams out of Ohio State. Second round.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
You know, maybe there's there's there's quite a few really
and then of course, I mean I'm just looking at
the at the defensive defensive line scenario here. Jack Sawyer
interesting candidate. People have him he's not a first rounder.
Other people, oh yeah, he's a definite first rounder. A
lot of people have in the second round. Would he

(40:55):
would he go as low as the second round as
the Bengals are. I'm not sure that that would be
the case, but you know, he's an interesting guy. Shamar
Stewart out of Texas A and m if he's there
in the in the in the second round.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Uh. Jehad Campbell out of out of Alabama. I like
that guy.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
I think he's another I like the Campbell boys. I
think you know, he's another one that if he's there
in the second round, you'd have to you'd have to
jump on him. Jack Kaiser out of Notre Dame as
a as a linebacker. Al Golden knows all about that kid.
You know if he if he's there in that uh
in that portion of the draft, you uh do you

(41:36):
make the make the move there?

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Jaylen Walker out of Georgia, you know. I mean he's
got a lot of versatility. He can play off the
ball as well as rush the passer. He's physically athletically gifted.
So yeah, I mean the list is and then again
another Notre Dame uh potential at the at the corner position,
Benjamin Moore. I'm not sure that he's there in the

(42:02):
second round. I think Al Golden would definitely give us
some serious consideration. Then his running mate Xavier Watts at
safety on a Notre Dame. I mean, he's he's one
that would probably be there in those third fourth round
kind of guy potentially. So there's a good number. I mean,
like we talked about this, this is a keep draft,

(42:22):
and I think you know the fact that players of
that caliber would be there when we're when we're talking
about that, that possibility confirms that, all.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Right, you mentioned several of my favorite Day two or
Day three guys, I'll give you at least one other
name that I've got, and he is a guy from
our alma mater, running back Laquint Allen. I think would
be a great fit for what the Bengals do on
offense because he is a real dual threat. He ran
for more than a thousand yards. But he also set
the Syracuse record for catches by a running back last year.

(42:57):
He had sixty four catches out of the backfield. He's
only twenty years old. Because of this really deep pool
of running backs, I think he'll be there on Day three.
So if they go for a running back I like
laquin Allen, I'll mention a Day two edge rusher. I
think he'll be Day two Ashton Gilotti from Louisville. He
is a guy that our mutual friend Joe Goodberry really likes.

(43:19):
Tremendous athletic testing, good production at Louisville, and he seems
to be a little bit under the radars. So not
sure if he'll be there at pick number forty nine,
but maybe he is, and if so, I think he'd
be a good fit. I like a Day three pass
rusher Kyle Connard from South Carolina, the SEC Defensive Player
of the Year last year. He won the Bronco on

(43:40):
a Gerski Award. Probably a situational pass rusher projected to
go on Day three, but hey, the Bengals could use
a guy that fits that description. You mentioned a couple
of the Notre Dame defensive guys that I really like.
Xavier Watts, the safety would be tremendous if he's there
in Round two. Thirteen interceptions over the last two years,

(44:03):
so it would probably take pick number forty nine to
get him. Jake Kaiser another guy you mentioned. He played
in seventy games at Notre Dame, a captain last year.
Little bit undersized, a good, not great athlete, but Al
Golden would certainly know exactly what he can and cannot
do and would know how to use him. And then

(44:24):
I also want to get back to Luke Candra out
of UC and Elder High School. If they were to
double down on interior offensive lineman, he would be a
great candidate. His dream is to stay home and play
for the Bengals to be the next you know, Kevin
Huber High School, college and pro in Cincinnati. Two time
All American, two time All Big twelve, Great Pro Football

(44:48):
Focus grades, a captain, a leader. He's going to be
there on Day three. He might even be available after
the draft. I hope for his sake that's not the case.
But I would really love to see him wind up
in a Cincinnati Bengals uniform.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, I'd love to see that as well.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
You know a guy that Elder High School Louisville now
with the Cincinnati Bengals. I mean, that'd be a storybook
scenario to his career. I think Scott Peters, the offensive
line coach, could could take a guy like that and
really work with him. And and you know the fact
that the Bengals, we mentioned Al Golden on the defensive

(45:30):
side of the football, and there are other multiple defensive
coaches that are new to the staff on his side
of things, and Al Golden he knows what he's looking
at in terms of these players. And the thing about
Al when you think about it, is, Shoot, he was
at the collegiate level. I mean, he coached Notre Dame

(45:51):
all the way to the National championship. So he looked
at just reams and rings of tape of players as
he was prepping uh for the Notre Dame fighting Iris's schedule,
and they play a very good schedule and again they
go all the way to the National championship game.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
So he what an asset.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
He is in the draft room right now talking to
the organization and the scouts and everybody else about his opinion.
And I know Duke Tobin uh wants in Mike Brown,
it starts with him. Wants everybody in the organization to
have a voice and have an opinion. And Al Golden
is going to have a very strong voice and a
lot of opinions on not only the Notre Dame players

(46:30):
that we talk about, that the defensive players that he coached,
that he knows intimately as in terms of football players
and human beings. That's that's invaluable information. And guys that man,
I'll tell you about when we were game planning against
this dude.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
What a beast.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I mean this guy, shoot, I think he grated one
hundred percent pass protection watching him and tape all year long,
I mean this this guy is an animal.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Nobody beats this kid.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
And this running back, Oh my gosh, man, we having
round two or three guys and need jucas.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
And off he goes and.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
I mean those those kind of personal experiences, I think
are are big. So I think uh, I think Al
Golden and uh and guys, you know, they came from
other organizations, you know, like the the other coaches, other
organizations in the National Football League. When you get that
kind of experience in your game planning against other teams,
and then like the normand Patriots, New Orleans Faints where

(47:25):
these coaches come from. And in the division teams that
that these teams play, uh, the the in the a
C and the NFC respectively, in their in their divisions,
and and every team in the NFL crosses over and
plays you know, everybody every four years, you know. I mean,
so there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of
new new voices and new opinions in that draft room

(47:49):
as they're getting ready for the draft. And I think
that's good. I think I think it's gonna be Uh.
They're they're going to be armed, well armed, and prepare
for every every conceivable opportunity that might crop up in
the draft and in free agency as well. You know,
you're talking about guys unrestricted free agents. Now, I'm not

(48:11):
sure they're going to be spending a whole lot more
money on unrestricted free agency. It will be more the
secondary market probably after the draft. Like we talked about, uh,
there there may be another another push. But you know, men,
you've you've prepped for all these guys. We talked about
al at the collegiate level, at the professional level. All
these guys have done the same thing, broken the takedown

(48:33):
and talked about you know, these opponents and uh and
how good they are and what we considered to be
their strengths and weaknesses from an organizational standpoint when we
were playing against them and taking that that information is
valuable and bring it to Cincinnati. It might be the same,
but there might be some new input that's extremely valuable.

(48:54):
So I think that the new coaching staff is going
to be very very significant in terms of what the
Bengals decide to do with respect to a round by
round basis in the draft. And I'm sure they've already
had him put in unrestricted free agency as well.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
We have just about arrived at prediction time. But before
we get to putting you on the spot and putting
myself on the spot, who do you have in the
mix your final candidates to be the seventeenth overall pick.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Well, you know, there's there's all all kinds of all
kinds of candidates out there. I will say that, Uh,
you know, mel kiper I looked at I looked at
his his top you know, I guess twenty just recently
came out and it's a lot different, you know than

(49:49):
a lot of other other people's top twenty. But there
there are there's a multiple list of candidates. So honestly,
I think, uh, you know, Will cam is probably my
my number one guy. I think if I had to,
if I had to make a pick, uh, and you know,

(50:10):
it's just you know, you're gonna be locked in a
room you can't make you can't be unlocked out of
that room until you decide who you're who you're taking.
You know, at seventeen, I think Will Campbell gives gives
a tremendous amount of tremendous amount of value there, So
it I probably you know, lean toward that, But I mean,

(50:31):
there'd be so many guys potentially there. If Jaylon Walker
is there, Uh, you know, this guy can play outside linebacker,
inside linebacker, slot corner, you know, Mike Green out of
out of Marshall, if he if he's there, you have
to you have to consider, you know, a guy like that,

(50:53):
and I mean, uh a Buka at Buka out of
a house state at why receiver, I mean he falls
into that that kind of that kind of category. Will
Johnson potentially cornerback out of Michigan. I mean, there are
there are so many guys that that you look at
Jihad Campbell, the other Campbell, I mean looking at him,

(51:13):
linebacker out of Alabama, like you know, like that guy
potentially Gray's Abel out of uh North Dakota State, a
smaller school.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
But man, he dominated. He dominated at North Dakota State.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
I mean, he's He's a guy that could be right
there in the middle of the first round for the
Cincinnati Bengals take would that be a little rich?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
He's unbelievable pass protector. I think is he the one
man that might have been a wide receiver or a
running back before he converted.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Yeah, he converted.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
To uh uh in the office of I know, I
know he's very athletic and but and he's he's a
little bit undersized. Uh, he's really good pass protector. Thh man,
He's got movement skills. He's very athletic. My concern I
guess on him would be, you know, handling these big, huge,
two gaping defensive tackles. That's not necessarily you know, his

(52:11):
big strength is is moving moving guys like that Derek Harmon,
a defensive tackle lot of Oregon. There's medical concerns I
guess with him now, but he's a heck of an
interior pass rush guy. Uh Matt Gold and another receiver
out of Texas. I mean, this guy runs a four
two nine. If he slides all the way down to there,

(52:31):
you know it's is he Is he worth looking at?
And you know, hell yeah. Amaron Hampton the running back
that I that I like. I mean, there's I could go.
I could go on and on. You know, there's gonna
be a quarterback obviously in that air, but not not
interested in any of that noise. And that's for sure.
But it's it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. There's

(52:53):
there's a a good number of guys. But I think
if I had to, if I had to pick, because
I I think Will Campbell not only from a you know,
a football player standpoint, I think he played tackle or
I think he could do either and do either he's
gets drafted. You know, you've got a pair of book ends,

(53:13):
Orlando Brown and our big boy men's like you talk
about Dan who has got what that's just the bookends
are huge, humongous. I mean big ath what the guys
that tackle position? So do you draft another tackle? Well, yeah,
well he play right away. Maybe kick him inside the guard.
I mean I think he'd be I think he'd make

(53:35):
that transition very easily because he's got tremendous football IQ.
You know, he's got leadership qualities. They rave about him
as a person, and that's what the uh, that's what
Zach Taylor has done in the Bengals organization has done.
Has has made the culture that they've you know developed
here in Cincinnati, I think is second to none. And

(53:56):
it's become a destination.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Every that the Bengal was probably interviewed in terms of
unrestricted free agency and the draft, would you have answers
in coming to Cincinnati?

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Son? Hell, yeah, man, you got Joe Burrow, you got this,
you got that.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I mean, the the Cincinnati Bengals have developed at pretty
good roster, good good culture. It's a destination, man, and
there's nothing better when your organization has become a destination
and you're living in high cotton.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
I have seven guys in the mix for me as
the seventeenth overall pick two defensive tackles. You mentioned Derek
Harmon from Oregon, He's one. Walter Nolan from Ole Miss
is the other. I've got Mike Green from Marshall is
my one edge in my final seven guys. I've got
two safeties, Malachi Starks and Nick Evan Wory.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
And I've got two offensive linemen, Tyler Booker and Kelvin Banks.
Harmon is six' five athletic interior pass, rusher number one
by far according TO pff for interior pressures last year
in college. Football The bengals could obviously use. That nolan

(55:14):
is six,' four tremendous quickness of very disruptive interior linement
in the running and. Passing game there are some character
concerns there That the bengals would have to be. Okay
with green is my favorite among the. Edge guys, he's twitchy.
He's violent he was number one in the country in
sacks last year. With seventeen does have assault charges in,

(55:36):
his past but his Coaches at virginia And then marshall rave.
ABOUT him i think he Looks Like trey hendrickson two
point zero to ME when i watch his Footage From Marshall,
malachi starks the safety Out of georgia is about as
close as sure thing as you. Can get, to me
three year starter quarterback of Those great, georgia defenses never missed.

(55:59):
A game. Team leader the last Time the bengals were
really good, on defense They Had. Jesse bates this guy
has a Lot Of jesse bates, to him. To me
and then There's Nick, emon warri arguably the best athlete
in the draft on a defense that lacks big. Play
guys he could Be it pick six's fumbles forced from.
Jarring hits he's like a More Athletic kyle hamilton. Creating

(56:24):
havoc and then you have the, Two Guards tyler Booker And,
kelvin banks who would be a. CONVERTED tackle i Interviewed
former Alabama Quarterback tyler, watts recently who's the analyst on the.
Radio broadcasts he put it, this way every quarterback in
the world would Want Five tyler bookers in front. Of them,
physically imposing elite pass protector with, a big magnetic Personality

(56:49):
Like Orlando. Brown Junior, like orlando not necessarily a, great
athlete that's the knock, on HIM but i do think
he's going to be successful IN. The nfl And Then
kelvin banks left Tackle, at texas so there's always a
bit of a gamble and you move him to guard IN.
The nfl but he's a much better Athlete, than BOOKER
and i think he could eventually become your starting left

(57:09):
Tackle After Orlando, Brown junior so some potential extra. Value
there so those are my Seven guys i've identified as
The ones i'm really focusing on at pick.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Number seventeen, You Know walter nolan you talk About the
green led the country in sacks. With Seventeen walter nolan
led the nation in twelve tackles, for loss that LED.
The fbs so he's one of those guys that is,
a disruptor, you know hit a. Gap penetrate, so yeah

(57:42):
it's gonna it's gonna. BE interesting, I Mean, al golden
do these guys fit WHAT who i? Should say who
fits best to what he wants to do or he
has so much in his in his repertoire that he
Can say i'm going to take this guy and just
MODIFY what i do to fit this. Guy's STRENGTHS and

(58:03):
i think that's the definition of a Great. COACHING uh
i think that That's What paul, brown again uh and
his coaching staff they were so, good at. IS adapting
i mean they had they had a uh a structure
in mind what they wanted to. Do schematically BUT if
i might Read From penn state, with that, you know
unbelievable quickness and burst and first step quickness and all

(58:26):
of that, is available take them and if you, have to,
you know modify and adjust a, little bit uh to
basically align align yourself with this.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Skill set so.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Be it, you know when you when you have a
when you have a guy that could be that type
of a, disruptive force, you know you you. Proceed accordingly,
so yeah it's it's going to, be interesting uh interesting
to see exactly what uh, you know what What the
bengals decide, to do how they decide to. Do it

(58:57):
they're all as. WE'VE shown i think there are a
lot of very very good football players. Out there and
it's not just a position. OR two i think it's
a lot. Of positions in, this draft there is position
death and, You know THAT'S why i think That. THE
bengals i think they're going to make a lot of

(59:19):
hay in, the, second, third fourth.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
FIFTH round i.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Really do even if they stayed, the inn they stayed
right where they are with, THEIR picks i think they're
gonna make a lot. Of hay and then You Mentioned.
TREY henderson i guess that that's obviously. Big priority get
that bad, boy done get. HIM signed, i mean, they
said go out and see what kind of the kind
of trade market there. Would be there's multiple teams out

(59:43):
there that would Trade For. Trey henderson but they're not
going to pay thirty million dollars a year to compensate
them and the first round pick to have the the
right to compensate them another thirdy you know that. Thirty
million so you Know, the bengals you know they're not
going to take a third, round pick or, you know

(01:00:04):
even a second, round pick unless it's, real high whatever
the case. May be both both it takes two. To
tango both have to be satisfied with the with the.
TRADE arrangement i don't think there's going to be A
trade i think there's a trade market, out there there's,
trade value there's a lot of teams see the Value In,
tredy henderson but so Do, the bengals And the bengals
have them, under contract and they in order to keep,

(01:00:26):
Them happy i'd give them.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Fifteen million i'd give them a. Signing bonus.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Fifteen million he's at fifteen, point eight sixteen, point two
somewhere in. That range get them up over. Thirty Million,
say trey You're a. Bengal man we. Love you, you
know we. Understand You, les cincinnati you love, your teammates
you love, it here we love.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
You too, thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Million and then the next year bonus money, goes down the.
Salaries arrives keep them around that thirty million dollars thirty
to thirty low thirties compensation for. Multiple years keep one
of the best, heads rushers if not, the best In
The national football Here. IN cincinnati, i mean you can't
let seventeen sacks, walk Because Like paul, brown said, you

(01:01:06):
know they didn't, draft them but they got him in
the trade and they've been instrumental in. His development he'll
he'll verbalize that retain this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Dude man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Retain them and that's What the bengals have done a
good job of with what they did in resigning some
of these. Younger players dan they, identified them they, drafted
them they developed them and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Retained Them, Joe Burrow JAMAR. Chase. T higgins YOU know
gasicki a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Big contract, you know he came from, another team but
they they developed him and. Retain him SAYING. With, Pj,
HILL so i mean retaining people is the biggest is the.
BIGGEST thing, i mean don't let a player go unless
his playing abilities. Have diminished you know that then players

(01:01:57):
cut themselves and that in. That scenario but don't don't
don't let a player go because you've, been there responsible
and how you've handled your, salary cap, you know and
you have so much money in the last year or
two of the contract that it's like it's inconceivable that
you're able to fulfill.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
The obligation and the player.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
KNOWS too, i mean there are players out there now
that one of the reasons they're, out there but one
is age and the OTHER is i mean they are sorry.
Cap Casualties the bengals aren't. About That the bengals are
all About What paul brown used to reference as a.
Square deal if we, sign you we expect to. Fulfill
it we expect you to fulfill your endo the bargain,

(01:02:38):
as well and that's a. Square DEAL and I think
bengal has done a pretty good job. OF that, i
mean you got teams out there, sixty million sixty, six million,
you know in, cap Jail the bengals, six million one
of the least amounts In The National. Football league so
they've done a pretty Good Job katie Blackburn and troy,
And Everybody Paul, brown junior, you know managing the salary

(01:03:01):
cap and not having. Ego contracts, irresponsible contracts you know
that get a lot of publicity when they're, initially signed
but in the end you. Get problems and those problems don't.
Go away there's a hangover and. The hangover, you know when,
you're drinking you get. A hangover eventually it. Goes away

(01:03:21):
when you're irresponsible to these, ego contracts the hangover.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Gets, worse man it doesn't. Go away it's a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
All right time FOR the espn chime and My Best
roger goodell imitation to get this officially on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
The record.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
With the seventeenth pick in the twenty TWENTY Five, nfl
Draft The cincinnati, Bengals select i'm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Gonna, you know you make a great argument for a
lot of a lot, of Players but I'm Still i'm
i'm gonna go with. MY man, I mean i know
it's the former offense of lineman, in Me and i'll fully,
admit It but i've grown to Love Will. Campbell Man
but i'd be happy all the players that we threw. Out,
there shoot every single one of them can help this.

(01:04:13):
Football TEAM but i would like to see the big Boy. From, Elision,
HONESTLY dan i don't think he's going to. BE there
I think i think he'll. Be GONE but i think
that's maybe one of the reasons that if he for
some reason were to, be THERE would i would jump
up and you'd have to put a harness on me
to bring me back to. MY seat i jump up

(01:04:35):
and run to that table to uh to make. That selection?

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
All right my Pick Is. Derek harmon and this, is truly,
for me the best player, available scenario because they've already
devoted free agency dollars in draft capital on. Defensive tackles
they RE Signed, bj hill THEY. Signed, tj slayton They
drafted Jenkins and jackson. Last year do you want all
of those guys to play, this year but none of

(01:05:00):
them is a high level. Pass Rusher derek harmon gives
you the best hope of Having Your chris Jones Or,
cam hayward who really creates havoc in the middle of the.
Defensive line how much better would this defense be with
a guy shrinking, the pocket, getting sacks, getting pressures batting.
Down passes he's, Six' five he's, got long. Arms good

(01:05:24):
athleticism if you want To Copy the Super, bowl champion
eagles then build a. Dominant defensive line harmon would be a.
Great first step he's my. GUY at seventeen i really
Wanted To. TAKE malacky Starks I think al golden would
love having that quarterback in the back. Of his secondary
and even though you know he didn't run a great time,

(01:05:47):
at the combine he ran a four. Five point forty
he was really good in all of the other football
drills in in terms, OF his Athleticism I think melachi
starks is going, To Be great but i'm Settling In
on derek harmon is my pick, at Number seventeen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
And i'd be. Thrilled with that that would not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
BOTHER me, WHATSOEVER i mean i do think that He's
like the philadelphia eagleshould talk about they were too deep
across the board in.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Terms of waves.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Of defensive linemen they throw in there and keep them
fresh and just rush the hell out. Of the Quarterback
and And derek harmon is is the best interior pass
rusher in the draft, in my opinion because he's got
the length like, you talk about plus he's he's, got
a big big. TOOLBOX of, moves i mean he's not

(01:06:36):
just a one trick pony In terms of i'm gonna. Bull,
rush it okay, that's this week and then, The next
week i'm going to just speed rush you on the
edge of your shoulder.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
As a guard and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
THE three, technique i mean he's he's got a myriad
of things that he can he can go TO and
AND i think i, think he, would he would he'd
be a heck. Of a, pick and again like, we talked,
ABOUT you KNOW i guess i can with four tongue
a Little bit, because, i'm saying well they committed so
many dollars offensively an, unrestricted free agency let's take care.

(01:07:07):
Of the DEFENSE what am i doing as a, Former
offensive lineman i've taken an interior offensive lineman BECAUSE that's
where i.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
WOULD put him i, would draft him put him In
a guard and my.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Reasoning number nine you know he uh he got hit
a lot last year. And he's courageous you'll hold the
football as long as any Quarterback In The national football
league in order to uh make sure that, that you know.
Everything plays out he he is the master at finding

(01:07:38):
something late uh And uh and i'm sure he drives.
Defensive backs crazy and then you obviously he's got the
athleticism to climb the pocket and get out of the
pocket and uh roll to his right and left like.
We talked, about, but, uh IF if if I Do
take will campbell the final piece to solidify that that
offense because like like we, were talking about the guard.

(01:08:00):
POSITION needs help i do think that that's probably the
biggest need on. The football, team and, unfortunately you know,
For the defense i'm gonna take that guy to, fill
that Need and then i've probably used every other pick.
On the defense i'm gonna use a lot of the picks.
On the defense there's no. Question about, THAT but. HONESTLY i.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Would i Would.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
There's and i'm Not Saying it's will campbell, or A bust,
but i'm saying at some, point in time you know
that that is the area that that needs. To be
Fulfilled if the bengals, Have You, Know Will, campbell malachi, starks,
You Know uh derek harmon and a couple of other
guys in that, Grouping of five i'd be good with any.

(01:08:44):
Of Those guys and i'm sure they. WOULD Be too
U and, Like i said I'm. Not sure Will If
if will campbell would, Would be there i'd be. Right
all back i'd like to light the cigar man THAT
right after.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I picked him we agree that number one thing they've
got to come away with as. As Starting guard but
i've been overdosing on mock draft SIMULATORS and what i
found lap IS that when i went defense in round
one and a guard, IN round two i still. Had
GREAT options when i took a guard in round one
and then looked for a defense difference maker in, THE

(01:09:18):
second round i wasn't quite as happy. With The outcome
so I'm going with harmon, In round one starks, if
he's gone and THEN hoping That I, Get Donovan jackson
Jonas avoy And Aya or tate ratledge as my guard.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
In, round Two.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Yeah and i'd be very happy with. THAT as well
i do think that the two rookie interior defensive linemen
that they took in the second and third, ROUND last
Year i think. Jenkins being healthy, i'm telling you trying
to rush the pastor with a big old cast on your.

(01:09:55):
HAND is, impossible i mean your hand used to just
done using, the one hand and they're using. Two against
you it's it's not. A FAIR fight SO i Think, i,
think jenkins uh he didn't really, show his. ARSENAL you
know i think he's a significant. Pass rusher inside but,
with that said you can never have. Enough of them

(01:10:19):
you want as many as you. Can Possibly get McKinley
jackson more of, a run, stuffer you know to gapper,
kind of guy and you can never have enough. Of
those either so we we've talked for, a while here
but coming all, the way, around circling back what are?
We talking about interior offensive. And defensive lineman just the

(01:10:39):
way we, started the podcast we, Came, full circle dan
and here we are coming right, back to that to
that point of Importance For, the cincinnati bengals and. They've addressed,
it you know in free agency they signed an interior lineman.
Offensively and defensively they got to address it in the,
draft AS well, and i think uh THEY should and

(01:11:01):
i think they will address.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
It multiple times. Like we're describing we.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Will Be together On Thursday At pai corpse stadium for
a draft party for. SEASON ticket members i know you
have something fun in store the Following, night on friday
along With the first star logistics for the second and
third rounds. Of the draft tell me a little bit
about what's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Going, on there yeah this will be the third annual
Draft Party For. First start logistics we're gonna be At a. Great,
american ballpark Uh In the red stadium obviously is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Where.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
We'll be uh we're Going To Have andre yosi vash
will be a special, guest FOR us and uh, he'll,
be Interviewing. Uh interviewing andre we've got other other guests as. Well,
lined Up Uh. There's eric all we'll be there to
talk about what's going on with him and one unfortunate

(01:11:55):
thing that he's not going to be able to play
the upcoming, season as well that that's. Just been determined,
but a man, you talk about a guy that h
was on, a career path his trajector is going straight
up and. That's the thing the biggest Variable In The
national football league's injury you have no, control over whatsoever

(01:12:17):
and that is. The biggest Variable so hopefully eric all
is uh is going to be able to rehab well
and and come back and perform for the level that
he had, been performing, at because man he was a
factor not only in, the passing game but they were
doing things with him in the running, game as well
and they were creating formations to. UTILIZE his, talents, i
Mean uh he's, he's an impressive impressive young. Man for

(01:12:40):
sure so we're gonna have other other special, guests as well,
and and uh it'll be. A good time i mean
it's from, seven to eleven uh down There a, great
American Ballpark and joe goodbury will be, There As well
brad JOHANSSON. Will be mc we're gonna uh and and
other people That work with joe on his on the
work that he does with respect to the draft and free,

(01:13:04):
agency and everything we'll be there. On the, panel so
yeah it's going to be a full night of football
for Sure on.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
That friday night sounds.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Like good stuff i've taken a bunch. OF your time i.
Really appreciate it you are spending time. With your family
have a safe Trip, back TO cincinnati and i will
see You at Pay. CORPS on thursday i.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Look, forward, to it sir have the best day.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
You ever, had once, Again this year i'll be posting
podcasts after each day, of the draft so when you
get up, the next morning you'll hear from the players moments.
After they're picked you'll hear what the coaches are, saying
about them and you'll Get analysis. From lapping me that's
Next On The, bengals booth podcast brought to You. By

(01:13:47):
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(01:14:09):
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