Bengals Booth Podcast: The Room

Dan Hoard goes inside the Bengals draft room with a man who played a big role in selecting some of the best players in team history – former head coach Marvin Lewis.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I get everybody on dan Hoard and thanks for downloading
The Bengals Booth podcast The Room where It Happens. Addition,
as we get stories from inside the Bengals draft room
from a guy who is there for sixteen years, former
Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. The Bengals Booth Podcast is
brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the
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(00:28):
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(00:48):
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(01:33):
every year is Dave Lapham and I take one last
look at this year's draft class before predicting who the
Bengals are going to pick. But on this episode, we're
talking Bengals history with a guy who spent sixteen years
in the room where it happens. The NFL Draft is
a week away, and it is a treat to welcome

(01:55):
in a man who played a big role in selecting
some of the best players in Bengals history, Carson Palmer,
Andrew Whitworth, Gino Atkins, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, and many others.
The winningest coach in Bengals history, Marvin Lewis coach. When
you hear some of those names, do you instantly go
back to some draft day memories?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, Dan, that you instantly made me smile. There, Yeah,
a lot of great draft day memories, and you know,
when you're hoping that the people that we identified it
would really help us are there when it's our turn
to pick. And I think that's the best part of
the draft.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
You were in a lot of draft weekend war rooms.
Will you miss it next week?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I was out of it, and then they drug me
back in. In fact, the funniest thing is literally one
of my first experiences here when I wasn't involved in
the draft is getting the text messages from gms about hey,
should I pick this guy now? And one of the
gms I missed the text message, and now they were

(03:07):
in the sixth round. I said, no question the fourth
round about a ASU player, and you know, but no,
I'll be good. It was great to be in it
last year again, and particularly with the exposure I had
to all the quarterbacks out of the PAC twelve. They

(03:29):
went in the first round and have been have been
very significant for their teams. I believed in all three
of those guys. I thought they would be good players.
I also had exposure to Spencer Ratler from high school.
This year, Jackson Dark I was the first person that
offered Jackson Dart a scholarship literally and so it'll be cool,

(03:54):
but you know, No, I'll be all right.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
So you were there with Vegas last year, obviously with
the Bengals for more than a decade in the draft room.
What about prior to that with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Washington.
Were you in draft rooms there?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah? I was very fortunate that, you know, really, when
I started in ninety two with the Steelers with Bill
Kawer and Tom Donaho and the Rooney family, that, yeah,
we were in the room. And then later on as
I went on to Baltimore, I was in the room
as the coordinator and so forth. And in Washington, so yeah,
I was always involved and I really owe it to

(04:29):
them for them to be including me in that was
great to help me in the process as I became
the head coach of the Bengals because I had been
included in the process.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
So Marvin Bengals coaches have a big voice in the
draft process in Cincinnati. Was that always the case when
you got there or did that evolve during your sixteen
years as the head coach.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
No, I think it's been the case. It's how I
think Paul Brown and then later Mike Stahl, Mike all
the draft going that they wanted the involvement of the coaches.
We probably actually backed off a lot when I took
over because it would be more than double the scouting staff.
And then as time went on with do Tobin taking

(05:16):
over and doing such a great job with it, but
we added his father, Bill, two or three other scouts
right away when I got the job, So we kind
of took the coaches out of it and just tried
to focus them on areas where we felt like maybe
we would take a player at that position, or a
guy that maybe was an underclassman or somebody that had

(05:38):
some issues coming out, and we tried to focus on
those guys with the coaches more.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Even so, your very first pick, number one overall was
Carson Palmer. I assume it was a no brainer. The
next quarterback taken that year was Byron left Which what
stands out to you, Marvin about the pre draft process
with Carson Palmer was.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
It was really really cool. That was you know, when
I got the job, I'm sitting in the stands with
the Brown family, Mike, Troy, Katie and ABPB was there,
I can't remember, but and it's the Senior Bowl and
Carson's playing in the Senior Bowl, and I have no
idea of anything about Carson Palmer, but I'm literally sitting
there with them. I think they had already offered me

(06:24):
the job, but I had not accepted the job. And
I was sitting there in practice and Mike was just
doing and all over Carson and it was great. And
then getting to know Carson through the process going to
sc for pro day. Later on, we went back to California,
had a private workout with him which was just off
the charts, and we brought him to Cincinnati the two

(06:47):
weeks prior to the draft because we had a mini
camp to look for me to look at the current team,
and Carson was there. Byron Left, which had already been
in Cincinnati, we had Carson and Terrence Newman in town
for that weekend of our mini camp, and then walking
back across the street from practice on Saturday morning, I

(07:11):
was walking with Carson and I told him you were
going to be our first pick, and I said, you
and I are going to be joined to here. And
it was an exciting time. And obviously everything worked out.
We're able to get him signed right fire to the draft,
and it was great, you know, and he never disappointed
with what I told before his ability was just incredible.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Nobody loves quarterbacks more than Mike, and I think to
this day from talking to him, he believes Carson through
the prettiest ball of any of the great Bengals quarterbacks.
So was it the same for you.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
No question about it. I used to Dan. I used
to stand on the sideline prior to the games and
the officials who would be doing their little warm ups
where they're running up back and forth, shuffling down the sideline,
and I would stand there in the white while Carson
was throwing speed cutouts to our wide receivers and I
never moved. And one of the officials said to me,
I do your games. I've done your games. You're always

(08:10):
standing here. He's throwing the ball and you never move.
I know he never missed it. It's just boom. It's
right there on the receiver's eyes. Every single time. I
don't have to move out of the way. They catch it.
Boom to step, boom, and it's that. And when Carson
got hurt in the spring of two thousand and six
and we brought in quarterbacks to work out and have

(08:33):
them throw for us, and I just would be standing there,
just shaking my head because there was just no comparison,
and they had been starting quarterbacks in the National Football League.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
You didn't play him as rookie year. The Chiefs basically
did the same thing a few years ago with Patrick Mahomes.
But that is the exception. Nowadays, most of the time
guys drafted high play right away. If you were doing
it again, would you do the same thing.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, probably not. But I do know that when I
got the job, I had many of the veteran players
come into my office and say, we don't need a Martin.
We don't need a quarterback. We've got we've got kids,
we don't need a quarterback because they had lived through
playing with a young quarterback and they really felt like

(09:23):
it was the franchise needed to win. They needed to
win as players because they know their their lifespan in
the National Football League's not very long. And but boy,
I tell you what, every day and Carson they practiced.
You know, Carson's just turned heads and uh, you know,
so we even added I added a period on Wednesday
or Thursday and Friday for Carson every week for him

(09:47):
to be you know, he he was. He was prepared
as a starting quarterback every week. Ken Zampasy, Barbara Counsel
did a great job always preparing him as the starting quarterback,
and and John Kitt how to be an NFL quarterback
and be the leader of the team, which was great.
He had a great mental in John, and but we

(10:07):
added a period where he was against pressure from the
opponents and it was five plays each day and he
had to go in and operate because I read an
article that Dan Reeves started doing that with Michael Vick
when he was a rookie, just to help him get
prepared for when he would be the guy. And so

(10:27):
it was very beneficial for Carson. And but he just
followed us every single day.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
And you did accomplish your objective with the team. You
went five hundred, but you were in playoff contention until
the final weeks of the season. It did flip the
narrative for the Bengals ability to contend going forward.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, it really did. The guys believed, you know, they
believed in Kit and that was great, and he was
able to rally the troops and you know, but we
were playing the Bills up there, and I remember there
was a pressure team and Kit knew where it was
coming and he hang on, and he held onto the
ball for as long as he could and hit Peter
Board with a big post and then he got down

(11:08):
and the blitzer slid right over. And I said, oh,
Carson would have been dead from that day. We did
that period because I you know, we wanted to prepare him.
But yeah, that was great. And then literally I remember
January February whatever and called both those guys in Carson
and John and said, Carson and juwe ball, now take

(11:30):
care of it. And the rest was history.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
All right, let's hit on some other draft success stories.
Andrew Whitworth's fifty fifth pick in two thousand and six,
he's gonna wind up in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Did you have any idea what you were getting on
and off the field in Big wid Dahn.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
No question we did. I remember what he was wearing
when we interviewed him in Indy. He had on a
beautiful white polo button down shirt call or. I mean,
he looked like a million bucks. And after he left
the room, I said to Paul Alexander, I said, Paul,
if we're fortunate enough to draft him, we won't. I

(12:11):
won't need you. And then boy, he again never disappointed,
and I'm just you know what a great player, person, teammate,
mentor an extension of us as coaches Wit and Domitow Peko,

(12:34):
but particularly with Brent, brought our team through the lockout
and made it stronger. And I remember him calling me
when the lockout was over and he said, I can't
wait to give this back to you because he was
dealing with all the issues the players had, you know,
from insurance and all those other things they had to

(12:55):
deal with during that period of time. But Andrew was
the best, you know, as Carson moved on and we draft,
we're fortunate enough to draft Andy. He was a great,
great caddy for Andy and mentor and you know, and
then he passed it on Andy, Sandy, it's your time

(13:15):
now to be the leader.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
You mentioned Domata Peco. That's the same draft as Andrew Whitworth.
I mean, the odds of getting your offensive heart beat
in terms of leadership and the same thing on the
defensive end in the same draft. It's pretty extraordinary.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
And I think I want to say, and I think
there was another player with John Joseph also.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
He was the first pick in that draft.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
YEP, that those guys set a record for the most
games played in the National Football League out of a
draft class. I remember, I think there was an article
written by somebody a few years ago. And I don't
know who the third round pick was that year, but
I know Domita was four. Obviously, with too we had

(14:01):
the running back Kenny Irons was also a second who
got hurt with the ACL injury. But I can't remember
who the third round pick was, but there and I
think maybe it was one other guy, but they set
a record who were games in the National Football League
out of one draft round by one team?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Twoy ten. Your fourth pick, number one twenty overall was
Gino Atkins, who went on to play in eight Pro Bowls.
Do you recall if anybody in particular was quote unquote
standing on the table and really trying to make the
case for Gino.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, Zim and I both did. We literally had identified
Gino as other than we knew Sue and the kid
from Oklahoma were going to go at the top of
the draft in the first round, and we thought Gino
was going to be as good or better path rusher

(14:57):
inside path rusher as those two guys, and so we
we were so excited when he was there and we
picked him in the fourth round. You know, Gino's personality
of being so quiet and you know, but just you know,
we brought him on as a rookie. He started playing
on third down in twenty ten and then became the

(15:19):
full start starter in twenty eleven.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
You must have been rolling the dice a little bit
that he would be there in round four if you
felt that highly about him as an interior pass rusher.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, there was some you know, for whatever reason, there
were some negative thoughts about Geno coming out and obviously
his stature people doubted question that also, but you know, literally,
I think you know, obviously Aaron Donald had a tremendous career,
but Aaron you know, was probably just maybe a little

(15:51):
bit more explosive obviously, but but but you know, you know,
he began to he he changed how people looked at
defensive tackle and uh, you know, and and and that's
great and we were so so fortunate to have him.
We also drafted Carlos dun Left in the second round
that year, so uh, you know, we got a lot

(16:13):
of production out of those guys.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
What was coach Zimmer like in the draft room when
there was a guy on the board that he really really.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Won patients, you know, and you know, we all come
from different backgrounds. Zim basically had spent most of his
NFL career with the Cowboys prior to that, and uh,
you know, so he was used to people how they
did it differently, and uh, you know it spent one

(16:43):
year in Atlanta. So but you know, the thing about
it is, and I told our coaches just you know,
they were fortunate that Mike wanted to hear their opinion.
And so just be right, you know what I'm saying,
because when we put our when we put our ticket
on one of these guys, he's odd, and so let's go,
let's go make him the best.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I remember coach Gunther coming out of draft rooms muttering
anytime a high pick was used on an offensive player
instead of somebody that could help his side of the ball.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, no question about it. No. No. It's funny though,
because when I started in Pittsburgh in ninety two, you know,
I was out of the Bill Kawer. I was the
youngest coach on the staff, and none of those guys
wanted a high pick because they knew they had to
getting ready to play. But it's great when the coaches
do want to want to get a guy that they

(17:37):
think will help them improve on their side of the football.
And it's great, you know, but not everybody can have
every every round pick. You know, we got to build
the entire football team.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I'm sure in your sixteen years there were guys that
wasn't necessarily your choice. And I'm not going to ask
you to name names. But when that was the case,
was it difficult to be the person that then had
to go in front of the cameras and and sell
the wisdom of that choice.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
No, damn believe it or not. And I think we
got to this early the fact that the pick wasn't mine, Mike's,
it was the Bangles pick. And I think that was
really important. I know that when I when I got
the job, that was important to Mike that we stayed
unified and uh. And it was my I took it

(18:25):
on as my responsibility too, for all of us to
be involved and convince everybody why or why not? And uh.
And you know, we made some errors and some mistakes,
and but what we always learned from them. You know,
I think one you know, taking a cornerback that didn't
quite have the foot speed to do what we needed

(18:46):
to do. You know, what we're looking for the next year,
a cornerback that could do what we're looking for him
to do. And so we learned from sometimes when we
maybe reached a little bit and uh, you know, and
those were good thing. So and that's the process is
You're not always going to be right. It's not one
pick or one person's choice. It was it was basically

(19:09):
for the most part of group effort that way. And
we respected that process and I thought we we we
got good at that process. And Duke took it over
and managed that process, which was great.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
What's Duke's strength as a draft guru.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I think not getting swayed by popularity. You know that
he lets the the video and the physical characteristics do
the work. And the fact that we dove into the person.
You know, the thing about the draft and the National
Football League is and you can open up the hood.

(19:49):
And we made sure we tried to open up the
hood as much as we could. And uh, and I
think that that part of the process, you know, Duke
and I would start we would talk about that before
we were go over to Indy because I had no
idea who these guys were, and he would give me
a little bit of a preview myself personally, and then
we would preview the coaches on guys and so forth,

(20:10):
and who the targets that we really wanted to know
more about them, their personality. Was this a guy that
was a good fit for us personality wise, and then
just convincing everybody in the process, there's a lot of
good players. If this guy doesn't fit the mold, let's
move on to the next guy that does. Even if

(20:30):
he doesn't, maybe a great fit for the positions. It
makes our football team stronger. And I think Mike allowing
that to happen was huge, you know that, you know,
we didn't have to go with a popular pick. We
went with the one that fit us.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
So it sounds like those personal visits, whether it was
at the combine or back in Cincinnati, were really important to.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
You, yes, or going out on campus, you know, to
the to the players campus, taking that player to dinner,
spending time my greatest thing. And because I got put
on the competition com many by Missioner Tagliabu and six,
I wasn't able to get out to as many pro
days until the lockout team and then I realized what

(21:15):
I was missing, and so I was able to start
going to selected workout and being a fly on the
wall and watching how the player was interacting with his teammates,
the respect his teammates had for that player, and how
the respect he had for his teammates, and it was

(21:36):
that guy a good fit and that was the thing.
And I'll tell you a quick story. When we went
to work out Cam Newton, great physical talent, we couldn't
get a receiver to catch for him. We went to
Florida State or we worked out Ponder and he was
at home in Dallas. So we were able to get

(21:57):
the kids from SMU to help catch and do that.
We go to Saint Louis and to Missouri to work
out Gabbert and we got a flying coaches to catch.
We go to TCU, the entire football team is there
as part of the process with Andy Dalton, and that

(22:18):
that that said a lot about what Andy Dalton meant
to its teammates. And you know that that was a lot.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
This reminds me of the movie Draft Day where the
players didn't show up for the top prospects birthday party,
and Kevin Costner remembered that so things like that do
happen that that makes an impression.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
It makes an impression. That morning, you know, literally I
think we had I can't remember who was in town,
but I flew into dall on good Friday morning early.
When I got on the plane, there was the USA
Today on my chair and I read the article. In
the article it said the team that's fortunate enough to

(23:02):
draft AJ Green and Andy Dalton will be the big
winners in the draft. When I landed in Dallas, I
drove over to the campus and I met the coaches
for breakfast. They had taken Andy to dinner the night
before and met.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
With the and they're like, man, I've been talking to nobody,
but we literally held our breath and we were able
to draft Andy AJ obviously at number four, and then
later Andy Dalton.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
And you know, it sprung us forward again, which was great.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
So other than Carson, AJ was your only other top
five pick, because you mentioned number four. Overall, that twenty
eleven draft is considered one of the all time great drafts.
JJ Watt, von Miller, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones. You mentioned
Cam Newton, who took the Panthers to the Super Bowl
twelve of the top sixteen picks in that draft were

(23:56):
Pro bowlers. What tipped the scales in favor of A. J.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Green just the way he carried himself, you know, A
Julio Patrick Peterson I had met, We met with them all.
In fact, I think the META had Julio in town
before I went to meet with Andy, and Cam had
been there the day before, and uh, and then I

(24:23):
met with Patrick Peterson in the airport after I came
back from Dallas of being with Andy and Ponder and uh,
we literally met with him in the uh in the
airport lounge there at CBG, so when he was on
his way flying to his next stop. So, yeah, we

(24:43):
were excited. Uh. You know, at that number four slot,
we would have picked we wanted obviously our AJ, but
we would have picked vond had uh, you know, had
AJ been gone. You know, that was the decision of
Von Miller and AJ Green, and then the Cincinnati Bengals

(25:04):
would have been a three to four defense in Von Miller.
You know, then we knew what we had to do
then was prepared to make the switch so that we
could you know, really maximize Von's ability.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Couldn't go wrong either way.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
No, that's exactly right. And then Patrick Peterson was our
fallback guy if we had to move back in the draft,
and if if Cam was there, we were going to
pick Cam. And Jay Gruden was prepared to build the
Cam Newton offense. So, you know, that's the thing. I think,
the involvement of our coaches, our coordinators. I was so

(25:37):
fortunate to have guys that were so invested in that
like that.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
So a bunch of quarterbacks and you you mentioned several
of them were taken before Andy in that twenty eleven drafting.
You took him in the second round. What was it
about Andy? I know Jay Gruden was really high on him.
Why did you guys think that this guy would be
ready from day one?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
He never knew to throw. I literally, I was watching
this guy from TCU and I go into Jay's office.
I said, this quarterback from TCU never miss it. I say,
have you looked at it? And yeah, he's my favorite
and he goes he was on the other team that

(26:21):
you coached at the Senior Bowl. And I didn't even
realize that, you know, I said, it's awesome. We just
held our breath. We sent the quarterbacks a little book
before they came to visit us a little like playbook
that Jay had put together. Andy came in and had

(26:45):
some type bears when he brought it into visit with us.
You know this right here, and and that was so
so impressive, you know, you know, but we we literally
held our breath, we did we uh uh? Later on,
Bill Polly and told me, he said, you know, he did.

(27:08):
They didn't know that the injury that Peyton Nanny had
to his neck was going to be so severe, and
they ended up picking the offen tackle Costanza instead of Andy.
And he said to me one time, he said, you know,
we just I just didn't know Peyton's injury was as
severe as it was. And you know, we would have

(27:29):
picked Andy Dalton. That was the guy that they had
targeted also, and you know, Carl Kaepernick went the very
next pick. Colin had Colin at the Senior Bowl and
he and Locker at the Senior Bowl where the quarterbacks
we had on a squad.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Out of all of those quarterbacks, take it in that draft.
Andy's had the longest career, and you know, you can
make the case the most successful. Cam had a great run,
but it didn't last nearly as long. And Andy's still
going strong.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
If you look at Andy's numbers, really incredible in comparison
to the guys that have earned Hall of Fame quarterback.
The thinging about it, I will tell you that I
had a you know, last year, We're getting ready to
play the Carolina Panthers and on Tuesday morning they announced
Andy Dalkins at starting quarterback and I just get a
sick feeling in my stomach because I know what we're

(28:21):
in for. I know that he's going to be prepared.
I know he's going to know where every pressure is
coming from, the looks and everything, and he's going to
be able to get ready with football. And we had
to play an outstanding game and we didn't and they
beat us.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Coming up next with coach Lewis, I'll look back at
the two thousand and five draft. One that could have
gone down is among the best in team history if
not for a misfortune and tragedy. But first, here's a
quick reminder that the Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to
you by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals official
HR software provider by Alta Fiber future Proof fiber Internet

(28:59):
designed elevate your home, business, and community to a new
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best fans. Guttering Health is the official healthcare provider of
the Bengals. Marvin, you had some great drafts in Cincinnati.
Of any in Bengals history, this is the one that
might go down and probably does go down as the

(29:19):
most heartbreaking. You took David Pollock in round one, he
played one year before his neck injury. He took Odell
Thurman in round two. He had the best rookie year
of any defensive player in franchise history, and then he
never played again because of off the field issues. And
then in round three it took Chris Henry, who was
terrific for four and a half seasons and obviously was

(29:40):
the most tragic story of all as he passed away
at the age of twenty six. How much different is
Bengals history if those players had long careers, no.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Question about it. David Pollack again, pold your breath moment
brought him to Cincinnati the end of the process. Biggest
Jim Ratt had man named at Georgia when he was
a young player and watched him after its freshman season.

(30:11):
Just incredible. He was going to be our Carson Palmer
of the defense, and you know, had brought Kevin Green
to training campus with Kevin their jersey there to help
mentor David, and David wasn't signing. Kevin had to leave. Literally,
Kevin drove the Cincinnati from Canton after being inducted in

(30:32):
the Pro Football Hall of Fame to be there with
David Pollock. How about that? And you know, and David
was unsigny, so Kevin came and gone before David got
the camp.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Got to say hi, but not doing anything.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
But you know, just incredible, O'Dell, Just what a fine,
fine player could have been a starting half back in
the National Football League. That's the kind of athlete. Ose
y'all was. Smarter a whip, took up got football. I
said to Mike Brown after the first practice of rookie camp,
He's just like Reddy Lewis. And literally seven years later

(31:12):
I said that again after the first day minicamp about
Oneteed perfect.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
He's just like Ray and in what ways.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Instinctive, never wasted a step, smart as a whip, picked
up football like that made people around them better so sudden,
and when they hit you, it's like getting hit by
cinder block. You know, so just incredible. I did my

(31:43):
last season going to Georgia for the pro day. I
was at Georgia. Somebody came up from behind me and
hugged me, and I turned around and it was Odell
and I had the biggest smile on my face. I
was so glad that he was there doing well. Coach
Rick took care of him. Kirby has taken care of
him since, you know, giving him a role there at

(32:06):
the University of Georgia. And I'm just so relieved he
was doing well. And he's like, Coach, I don't have
anything went on play, so literally we had Adam No
make up the jersey for Odell and senate to him,
framed it, sent it to him, you know, just I mean,

(32:26):
you're right. And Chris Henry, I mean, I remember a
Thanksgiving the writers were writing that we had three first
round picks. You know that, you know, two thirds of
the way, three fourths away three that season that you
know we had won the draft with three first round picks.
You know, you Jackson came back from West Virginia just

(32:49):
raving about Chris Henry and they had watched one on
one film with him and Adam Jones, and him just
taken Adam a park Adam or that.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
I can't wait to see Adam out.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
But that's how impressive it was was to see those
two compete. And they had watched Lily a one on
one practice tape when they were at WVU and you
know Christly with special And yes, it was so unfortunate.
He had basically turned his life around. And when the

(33:21):
accident in the curb.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
You coached so many great linebackers in Pittsburgh and Baltimore
and elsewhere, and I think people forget how impactful Odell
was his rookie year. Five interceptions, five forced fumbles, a
ton of tackles. He was on his way to being
one of the best linebackers in the league.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
No question about it, no question about it. He just
was so instinctive, so sudden. We were able to use
him as a blitzer, as a cover guy. He could
do it all, and you know, and he was smart
enough to get it right for the most part if
he jumping offside when he was glitzing, but other than that,

(34:04):
But no, we were we were really fortunate. And uh,
you know, uh, he just you know, was dealing with
a lot of you know, demons, in his life that
you learned.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Unfortunately, So from your sixteen Bengals drafts, do you have
a pick that isn't as obvious as some of the
ones that I've mentioned that you thought was especially impactful.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
I mean, obviously these first rounders the picked were so
impactful on our squad. You know, tyer Riifer let me
change the game for it. You know, he really did.
And you know it means such such a difference in
what we were doing and everything that way. You know, uh,
you know Chris Perry before he gets hurt, you know,

(34:50):
such the athleticism, the ability to catch the run, to
do everything with tremendous you know, uh, Leon All and
what he and John Joseph were able to do. Leon
was a great mentor to John Joseph. Uh and watching
those two grow up together, you know, it was just

(35:11):
it's just incredible. Guy down like Georgia I Loca fourth
round pick. You know, you know Sean this, you know,
we were just so lucky and uh, you know that's
the part of the uh, maybe from recruiting in college,
through being involved in the draft process. You know, in

(35:32):
Pittsburgh in my first year, we draft Levon Kirkland in
my position. Next year, we draft Chad Brown, next year
we draft Jason Gilden, I mean Dante and so they
all three of them became Pro Bowl players, and it
just they included me in the process, and I was
very very fortunate that and uh and so when I
moved on to Baltimore, the first pick we'd pick on

(35:55):
defense is Ray Lewis. And literally I was still in
Pittsburgh when I went to the Combine that year, and
I had watched plays at Miami and I shut the
tape off and one got Dick Leabow and it's a dick.
You got to see this guy. Five plays, That's all
I watched. I went to the combine, introduced myself and
I said, you know, I'm Marvin Lewis'm the linebacker coach

(36:17):
at Pittsburgh. Steve, you're a hell of a player. I'll
never get to coach you, but good luck to you.
Two weeks later, I was the defensive coordinator in Baltimore
and we picked him at number twenty six because he
didn't run that but boy was his sudden. And I
would tease Jesse Armstead and Michael Barrow down the line

(36:41):
that if they hadn't come out before him at Miami.
When I was in the process with the Steelers, they
would not have been a Ray Lewis. You know, that
would not have been so lucky. But those guys helped
me because I wasn't as high on them coming down
in the draft and they were very, very productive NFL player,
So they taught me a lesson of what Ray could be.

(37:03):
And uh, and that's the fun of the process. And
you gotta you gotta dig deep into it and get
into it. And and that's the thing that I loved
about Mike Brown. As soon as the seasons over, Mike's
ready to draft. I mean, this is the this week.
He can't wait to get to the draft. You know,
he loves it. And uh and that's so great because

(37:25):
he's involved, he's excited about it, and uh you know, uh,
but I'm literally as soon as the season he's ready
to get to the draft. And uh, you know so.
And then once the draft's over, he's ready to get
to the season. Let's cut the that's cut the team
and get to the season. And you know, because he this,

(37:46):
this is what he does, this is his lifeblood. It's
all he worried about is the football team. And winning.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Do you guys stay in frequent contact?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yes, I I check in, you know, once a month
or so, and uh, you know, uh, you know, when
you spend sixteen years, you know, and probably for the
first eleven or twelve talk to somebody every single day.
You know. People can't believe that we would sit out
and meet every day and it might be five minutes,

(38:14):
it might be fifty five minutes. But that's all he does.
Twenty four to seven, three sixty five. The man went
on one vacation when I was here two years. I
think this is what he cares about, is that football
team and winning. And obviously this year with them making
the move they did and bringing back tight end and
both receivers, and now that they go into the draft prostics,

(38:38):
they got to sway it a little bit to the
defensive side.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
I would imagine, you know, I've been thinking of something
you said, Marvin, as the Bengals prepare for this draft, because,
as you mentioned, after re signing Tea and Jamar and
obviously Joe's extension last year, they're going to have to
be younger and cheaper on defense. That's just the way
it is. I just thinkly, remember you at some point

(39:01):
saying you need young legs on defense, and that's ringing
in my head right now as they prepare for this draft.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
You really that's the beauty of the draft. And it
was kind of funny that the year of the lockout
we reverse the process so you're able to go through
the draft and then fill in with free agency after
the draft, which would be the ideal way to do it,

(39:31):
which then your whole draft board would be opened. You know,
you really wouldn't worry about we got to make sure
we get a guy at some point here or there.
You can just pick the best players throughout and then
fill in with free agents if you could do that process.
But no, I really believe that, you know, particularly you know,

(39:52):
you're what the colleges are doing now that you can
get guys, you know, defensive linemen, the interior guys, edge guys.
There's so many edge guys that can change the game.
I mean, you look at last year's draft class and
how many edge guys came out and were productive as rookies,
you know, because that's what they're doing in college. And

(40:15):
then you look at the corners and the safeties because
they have to be able to cover so those are
the things. And you know, and unfortunately the fungible position
as a linebacker. You know, but you can be the
game has changed so much. Well now you're looking for athletes,
and that's what they had in Cincinnati in the two

(40:36):
interior and I think one of the guys left now,
but that's what they had and two good athletes inside
and fifty seven and fifty five. You know, both guys
were good athletes. And that's what we were able to
have back in the day when we had Caleb Miller
and Landon Johnson. They weren't big, but they were athletes,
you know, through that little stretch and then we ended

(40:58):
up getting a little bigger as we went.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
When you evaluated players, what did you prioritize and what
were your non negotiables?

Speaker 2 (41:08):
They had to be competitive non negotial right there. And
I think the second thing, they had to be smart
enough to handle the changes and that you do game
plan wise and even sometimes in between series. You know,

(41:29):
I was blessed as a young coach to be around
the Rod Woodson uh to see how smart guys could
be and and and be impactful that way. And so
but those were the things, you know, and then as
far as you know what you're looking for, we're looking
for guys that were you know, I said this from

(41:50):
the start, big strong, physical men. We were competing in
the most physical division in the National Football League and
we had to go be more physical than Baltimore Pittsburgh.
And at the time I was there, Cleveland was drafting
at the top of the draft every year. So I
mean a yukawuiji board and hit on somebody, you know,

(42:11):
with your eyes shut.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
They got the second pick this year. So some things
have changed.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
But we had to be able to withstand. And I
think about from when I started in those first signing
of free agents Reggie Kelly, because we had to be
able to block the perimeter guys that Baltimore and Pittsburgh had,
and Reggie Kelly was that guy for us. But then
the leadership that we brought in, But those are the
things they announced answer your question. We needed to get

(42:40):
bigger and stronger and more physical. I mean, when Michael
Johnson and Carlos Dunlaugh and those guys got off the bus,
they were big men, and that's what we wanted to
look like. And the same thing on the conversing on
the other side of the ball was with the offensive line.
They had to be big, strong, physical people, and we're
able to always put good runners behind him. Physical runner,

(43:02):
you know, from Corey to Rudy. J just said obviously
the Joe Mixon and all the other guys that came,
you know in between Ben Jarvis. You know, Uh, that's
the kind of football we played, and so we had
to be great at that and drafted that. You know,
when we had Rudy, we draft Chris Perry because we

(43:23):
felt like he offered a change up in a different style. Uh,
and the same thing with with oh, our guy from
North Carolina, you know, the accident, the guys that we
had during those times, you know, Geo he had to
you know, so we were always trying to make sure

(43:44):
that we had flexibility and versatility and what we were
doing within the football team.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Do you still feel that way about the AFC North
or did your opinion of it for standing out in
that sense change from the last couple of years you
spent with the Raiders.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I was get involved against it this year, so yes.
And Cleveland is that now they're a physical football team,
you know, up front on offense, and uh, they you know,
their backs were a little bit dinged up and injured
this year, but but that's what they do. And obviously
Baltimore hasn't changed in Pittsburgh has yet to change, so
it's really it's still the same. I mean, you know,

(44:22):
the Bengals, because of the quarterback and the skill on offense,
they go about it a different way.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
You know, So this one might be difficult. But do
you remember any specific times where there was a player
who was taken just before the Bengals selection where it
really broke your heart?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
There always is right, you know what I mean, there's
no question about it if there always is a player
and you know that that maybe goes right before you.
You know the thing, and that's why you know that.
You know, people think you go into the draft, uh,
you know, you have certain targets. You hope you can

(45:03):
get some, but you know you got to be know
that the other teams are doing their work as well,
and sometimes the guy just doesn't quite get to you.
And you know, the way Mike did the process was
really good. You know, we would be four or five
picks from our from our pick and we would have
you know, he wanted to have six names, five or
six names to say again, these are the guys that

(45:25):
were targeting, and we feel everybody feels good about this guy.
And if you don't say so, and let's let's move
on to the next one and maybe fill in later
on at that spot. But but, but that was a
good part of the process.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
After you picked a guy, how quickly did you know
if he was going to be successful in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Well, I think we got a little bit of an indication,
you know, when we would bring them in for the
rookie can't put them on the field and start doing
stuff with them, and you know, really when you can,
you know, But like I said earlier, you know in
the NFL, there's really no restriction on what you can't
can and can't do. You really should know a lot
about the player. Is much about kick me for the

(46:10):
first three four rounds. You know. Now maybe down the
line you don't know quite as much and you're going
off the time the scouts spent on campus. If we
did have a coach, go to the campus and then
the videotape, And that was the thing in the process
that I'd love to do too. I mean, I would
try to watch through to three hundred of the players,

(46:31):
many of the players that I could like. If I
knew there was multiple players on a team, then I
wanted to watch that that side of the ball versus whoever,
So that I knew something about some of these guys
that were maybe down the line in the sixth seventh
round that way, so you know, you really, you know,

(46:52):
you get to feel pretty pretty pretty close, you know,
early on. And and the fact that that you know,
we wanted to try and get those guys involved early,
and that was another part of it. You know, let's
do what they do. Let's make sure we're bringing a
guy to Cincinnati that if he is a deep ball catcher,

(47:13):
let's throw deep balls to him, you know, that's what
he does. If he's an underneath guy, let's make sure
we can have give him success and what he does,
you know. And if he's a running back and has
great hands, let's make sure we feature him that way.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
All right, a few more non draft questions and I'll
let you go. You came to pay Corps this year
to face the Bengals. You saw Joe Burrow in peak form.
He tied his career high with five touchdown passes that day.
What impressed you most seeing Joe Burrow in person.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I think his ex accuracy number one. He doesn't get
as much credit for how he can move in the pocket.
And the fact that I think he took what the
defense gave him. You know, we we we tried to.
I don't think Higgins played that day, so we were
able to just you know, kind of shift everything over

(48:07):
to Chase and so the tight end killed.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Us receiving yards in that game.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
So you know, so those things I think. You know,
I was fortunate enough to be there the year before
when when Chad went into the Ring of Honor, and
that was the first time I had ever seen Joe
Burrow up close on the on the field before the
game when they were doing the pregame and how big
he was. I didn't realize that. So he's an impressive player,

(48:41):
you know. Uh. The receivers and the tight end were
so impressive physically, uh that day as well. You know,
I noticed, you know, I saw them that same day
I was on the field and Green gave I mean,
they're well put together football team on that side of
the ball, and uh, and you know, I mean he
is arguably you know that it's not the top but

(49:04):
in the top two three quarterbacks in National Football League,
and you know, he goes out and proves it day
in and day out.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Marvin, before Vegas, you were back in college football for
a few years at Arizona State. What do you think
of Bill Belichick becoming the head coach at North Carolina?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I think number one. You know, obviously he gives an
instant credibility to what they're doing. He's surrounded himself with
his people who really do a great job at what
they do. I know, coaches, administration and Mike Lombardi. So
you know, he's put together a really good cast of

(49:44):
characters to help them build the program. That way, the
thing that I think the biggest struggle Bill is going
to have, and I don't know if if the time
constraints that you have in college football, which really makes
no sense because now we're paying the they're paying these guys,
and now you're limiting them so many hours, seventeen hours
a week basically because the game comes for three And

(50:07):
that's the biggest difference in college football. You know, the
time we spent in the National Football League with these
guys and then in college now you're ratcheted back to
those hours and so I think that's going to be
a big adjustment, the fact that the portal just opened again.
So you know, the comings and goings of the guys

(50:29):
who get their feelings hurt. That's the other difficult part,
you know what I'm saying. And I'm sure there'll be
Jettis and some guys and you know, we won't feel
the love and so they'll be leaving that way. But
that's part of the college football process these days.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
You are seven years younger than Pete Carroll. He just
jumped back into the head coaching pool. Would you like
to keep coaching in some capacity.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
No, I think I'm good. I'm done. You know, I'm bored,
let me tell you that. But I don't know what
I'll do. But it was great. I was glad that
trying to help the people that have helped over the
last few years. You know, I stay in touch with

(51:16):
you know, with Kenny at Asu. I've been down there
three four times. I'll be there tomorrow to look at
their clinic. You know, I've been down at University of
Arizona UNLB, you know. So you know a lot of
these coaches that I know, you know, stay in touch with,
But no, I think I'm done. You know the other

(51:39):
side of it is my wife's put up with this
stuff for over forty seven years.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yes she has, and.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
So you know, as she says, it's her time now.
And so now I'm here for every service, repair man
and everything and all those things that come with running
the household and taking those offs for late and so
that's what I do now.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
And being a great grandfather.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yes, and those my three dudes. You know we got today,
We got basketball tonight, we had soccer when tuesday, we
got golf school on Saturday. Grayson had piano and hip
hop yesterday. You know. So they're busy guys, and to
watch them grow up has been really cool.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
I probably should have phrased that differently, being an excellent
grandfather as opposed to a great grandfather. That sounds like,
you know, we're talking about another generation. Final question for you, Marvin.
We've all heard the saying you want to leave something
better than you found it. I think that's certainly true

(52:47):
of your time in Cincinnati. You finished with a winning record,
seven playoff trips, four division titles. What are you proudest
of from your ten years the Bengals head coach.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I think I'm probably proudest of the fact that watching
the men grow and the father's productive husbands. I think that,
to me is the coolest part. I've missed their calls,
but they've did these zoom calls last couple of Sundays

(53:19):
and there's twenty guys on there, and you know, it's
really cool. And we didn't win a championship, but I
which is why we do this, but to see these
guys be productive adults after their careers, it's really cool.
And I know that's what gives Mike the most satisfaction.

(53:42):
You know the fact that Mike never wanted to see
a player that couldn't be productive the rest of his life,
and that's really cool. You know, Sam Hubbard just got
married last weekend, and the whole Sam Hubbard story from
when he's in high school with Moller and and I'm
up there at House State with Earth and Sam calls
Irvine and Irvan puts me on the phone with Sam

(54:03):
Hubbard and says, hey, here's your next coach. And the
fact that we were fortunate enough to draft Sam and
you know so, and then watching what the impact he's
having in in the Cincinnati community with his foundation is
Mont property. That stuff's really cool, you know, to see
what these guys have grown and done and being productive.

(54:23):
You know Vontez is here in Arizona and seeing him
coach junior high football, have a trucking business. You know
Wallace Gilberry who we didn't draft but we brought into Cincinnati,
ended his career, made us a better football team, and
he has a very successful trucking business. So that stuff,

(54:45):
I mean, that's this thing that that makes it cool.
You know, you've mentioned Andrew, We know David College and
all these guys and what the greatest things they did.
But you know, I just think that they're being able
to see them being productive. Aj you know Aj Green,
the father in him, the husband. That's the coolest.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Put Marvin, this has been a real treat. You've been
very generous with your time. I can't thank you enough
and I really really do appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
You welcome, Dan Good to do it my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Coming out early next week on the next edition of
The Bengals Booth podcast, draft predictions from Dave Lapham and me.
But that's going to do it for this episode of
the pod. Brought to you by Paycore proud to be
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(55:40):
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