July 22, 2025 • 34 mins
Dan Hoard discusses the upcoming season and some pro football history with team president Mike Brown.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, get everybody on Dan Horden. Thanks for downloading the
Bengals Booth Podcast the OOO the Yes addition, as we
discussed the upcoming season and a remarkable life in football
with team president Mike Brown. The Bengals Booth Podcast is
brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the
Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber, future proof
(00:26):
fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community
to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder
that you can have the latest edition of this podcast
delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing
(00:47):
wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since
clear laundry detergent cups. I did laundry last night and
was reminded of a major pet peeve. A few times
I've purchased detergent, the measuring cup that screws on to
the top has not been see through. Our current one
is red, so when you pour the detergent in, it's
(01:10):
hard to see the measuring lines. What gives clear cup, easy,
dark cup difficult. So if my clothes appear dirty or
smell a little stinky, blame it on the engineering genius
who messed with a good thing. Now, let's get to football.
(01:31):
The Bengals held their annual pre training camp media day
on Monday, and the highlight for me is always the
opportunity to visit with Mike Brown. After Mike discusses Bengals
business with local reporters, he always sits down for a
separate interview with me, where we typically discuss Bengal's history.
Mike will be ninety years old in a few weeks,
(01:53):
and he's still sharp as attack. Here's player personnel director
Duke Tobin on his boss's involvement.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Mike's the first one in the building every day in
the offseason, the only one in on the weekends. So
he's here. He's all football, all the time. It's his life,
it's his passion. He wants to be involved, he wants
to know what's going on. I think he's willing to
(02:21):
listen and understand others and delegate responsibilities as he's gotten older,
but he's certainly fun to be around because his passion
for what we do in the NFL and football in
general is high level, and it's really cool to see
his routine continue, and his routine is football.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
According to ESPN BET, there are only five teams this
year with better Super Bowl odds than the Bengals. Duke
Tobin calls it a championship caliber team, but it's not
in Mike's nature to say the same thing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, we have to prove it. And I grew up
in a coach's family, and my dad, who was a coach,
spent all his time not trying to raise expectations. That
was dangerous to do that, and I was taught that
(03:18):
that's how you ought to behave when this question is presented,
not declare victory before you've assembled to start the training camp.
I think we have good players, so does Baltimore, Sodaes, Pittsburgh,
(03:39):
and so does Cleveland. We have to prove that we're
better than they are. We're going to try. In my heart,
I like to think we can do that, but I
know how difficult it is. And that's about all I'm
going to say on it.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
How much involvedment do you still have on personnel decisions?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Well, when we well a lot, I stay involved. I've
tried to shift responsibility as the years have piled on,
and I've pretty well done that. In the play. I
(04:26):
don't coach the team. I don't necessarily pick the players.
I have a voice, but it is a noise. The
guy I would pick might be someone different. It's the
proper that I accept that. But I do have a voice, though,
(04:49):
and I do enjoy that part of it. It's fun
for me. I really like seeing the new guys when
they show up, and I get all excited inside. Try
not to show it, but I really really interested in
how they're going to do. I think we have some
good wines this year, and we obviously have one more
(05:11):
to figure out, but we'll get it done. I think
at some point.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The one more to figure out is obviously first round
draft pick Shamar Stuart, who remains unsigned as I record this.
The Bengals are trying to insert language into the contract
that would void future guarantees if Stuart gets into serious trouble.
It's language that's common with other NFL teams, but since
the Bengals last few first round draft picks haven't had
(05:37):
that language in their contracts, Shamar remains unsigned. Again. Here
are Duke Tobin and Mike Brown.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
The difference is minute, and it's just a clarification of
what is already agreed it means, and we're probably the
last team to put it in, so we're not at
the front end of this evolution. Maybe we're catching. But
the contracts also evolve in signing bonus and guaranteed percentage
(06:06):
and how many people in the draft get guarantees, so
they evolve in positive ways for both, and we're just
coming in line with what the rest of the league
is doing. If I thought we were being unfair, I
probably would hesitate, but I don't believe that, and I
don't certainly don't think that's the case. There's not much
(06:28):
to negotiate. You've got to look really hard to find
something to get mad about. And sometimes that's what we've
gotten caught up in, is somebody trying to prove their
worth by getting mad about something that doesn't matter. And
the rookie contracts are normally not very difficult. They're pretty slotted,
and so it's a little unusual. This is where it is.
(06:55):
I can't say I understand it, and I can't say
I blamed Shamar for it, because Schamar's just listening to
the advice he's paid for and I don't understand it,
but I'm not the one paying for that advice.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
This one is surprising. I hesitate to get into the detail,
but basically it turns on whether out years are guaranteed
if he gets involved in conduct detrimental to football. Well,
(07:27):
what does that mean? Detrimental to football in recent years
has been violence to women. That's about the one that
comes to mine. There are others, probably, but that's the
one that I think. Well, if we get a player
who gets involved in something like that or does something
that is just unacceptable, guess what, I don't want to
(07:49):
pay him. I really don't. If he's sitting in jail,
I don't think I ought to be paying him. And
so we say that if he got involved in conduct detrimental,
we'd have the right to terminate the guaranteed part for
the back years. He says, or his agent says, oh no,
(08:11):
you can terminate the guaranteed part only for the remaining
part of the year in which the event occurs. Oddly,
something like this has never occurred in my memory with us.
I don't think it's going to occur. So we're sitting
(08:34):
here arguing over something that I think is pretty remote,
and I ask myself sometimes why the hell we're doing it,
But we are, and he's doing it too, And at
some point we got to put this stuff behind and
just get him signed and get him up here and
(08:55):
get him so he can be a contributor. He needs
to get underw soon. It doesn't help him or us
to have this strung out.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
He is going to be a fantastic NFL football player.
He really is, because he's fierce, he's determined, he's strong,
he's fast, and nothing but high level respect for his ability.
And I think he's an excellent person and I'm looking
forward to having them here and having them around our
(09:27):
football team. Earlier is better with most things, and this
one would fall into that category.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Then there's Trey Hendrickson, who is under contract, wants a raise,
had an extension.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, we're working at it. It came over here and
we have people back in our office who are sharpening
their pencils and trying to figure that out as I speak.
Here has been a long negotiation. Trey Henderson is a
(10:00):
fine player, he's a good guy. We want him here.
Dealing with him is sometimes not so easy. That's all right.
He's got the right to argue his case. We'll try
to make sense of it from our perspective. We'll see
I'm not persuaded that it isn't going to get done.
(10:25):
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Trays an important part of our football team, and it's
been a very good player for us. I have a
ton of respect for him. He is part of our
football team. He's under contract, and like I said in
the past, he's earned a raise, he's earned an extension.
We're trying to do that and hopefully we'll be able
to do something that makes him happy and that we
(10:49):
can work with. It's not a bad thing having a
ton of good players, and a lot with good players
come very big contracts, and we've got that. That's what
makes our team good because we have dynamic, first rate players,
and so it's a good problem to have. But we're
working through it and hopefully something can come together. Right now,
(11:10):
he's a part of our football team. We expect him
to be here.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
The Bengals are obviously not the only team with contract issues,
but whenever they have one, some members of the national
media label them as cheap. That's despite the massive deals
given to Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase and t Higgins over
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Oh, it's just the form of foolish and sweat. We
deal with the media, and the media says things. A
lot of what they say is really on point and helpful,
and sometimes what they say is invalid, not true, just
(11:51):
the opinion of someone who isn't informed. That pretty well
falls into that question you ask, in my opinion, fall
into the ladder department. Because we operate under a cap system.
We pay out the last couple of years more than
(12:12):
the cap, so that reduces what we can pay in
the future. But that isn't being cheap. It's just trying
to make the system operate the way we can. Sometimes
we paid out so much in the cap system that
it makes it hard to form up a contract for someone.
(12:35):
At the end of the negotiating period, the money's already
been paid to others. That influences what we can pay.
But it isn't the question of being cheap. We will
pay out the full cap and go forward. As far
as the stadium is concerned. Our deal is within the
(12:57):
generality of what other deals are for NFL teams and
markets similar to ours that have stadiums similar to ours.
We pay out as much as the other teams do.
It's just talk by people that really don't understand the
system or us, and I don't pay much attention to it.
(13:20):
That doesn't bother me much.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Instead of listening to praise or criticism, Mike focuses on
his football team. Chances are he'll be sitting on his
golf cart for every minute of training camp.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I do it because I like doing it. I've done
it all my life. This is a football business and
that appeals to me. It's what I want to be
involved and I want to see our players. I want
to watch how they're coach. I get pleasure out of
doing that. It's one of the benefits that I have
(13:53):
that is most important to me, and I enjoy it.
I like being in this business. I don't apologize for
doing it because I can do it, and it's something
that I have the right to do if I choose
to do it anyway. It's fun for me. It might
(14:15):
not be fun for everybody. I don't suppose it would be,
but for me, it's fun. I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Coming up next, my one on one conversation with Mike.
As we look back at some significant anniversaries. But first,
here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is
brought to you by Pai Core, Proud to be the
Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future Proof
Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community
(14:44):
to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's my latest visit
with Mike Brown. Mike, I want to start with an anniversary.
This is the seventieth anniversary of your father's seventh and
(15:04):
final Pro football championship team, the nineteen fifty five Cleveland Browns.
Between the ages of ten and twenty, your dad's team
played for a league championship every year as a young man.
Did you take it for granted?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh not really. I remember when I was in high school.
So that's a sophomore in high school and what's make
me fifteen? We lost to the Rams, and when I
got there, the high school coach said to me that
this sun will come up tomorrow. Of course I knew
(15:40):
that I resented him saying that because I didn't want
to be thought of as so stupid that I would
be unable to handle what happened. And he had great teams,
a lot of great players. The other day I looked,
and I think I came up with eight who were
(16:02):
in the Hall of Fame. I think it's actually beyond
that because it was over seventeen years in Cleveland, but
in the first a few years they had eight, and
they were mainly offensive players. It was a fun time,
(16:28):
it was. I just took it as the way the
world was. In the high school kids would would go
up to a football game that was a night that
we weren't playing whatever nearby with my buddies and sitting
(16:48):
in the crowd, and one of them always liked to
start saying that Paul Brown, he's a dumbest solb and
then the people around would react, and it always delighted
him when they reacted in a way that was supposed
to make me angry, but of course it didn't. But
(17:11):
it was a memory I had of those times.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
How did those great years influence your desire to make
this your life's work?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Well, I liked the football part of it, This part
of it that I've been in all my life, was
not what I set out to do, but he did
not want me to be a football coach, and I
can understand why. It's a hard life in a lot
(17:42):
of ways. So I went to law school and I
ended up here. The fun of it's in the coaching area,
not so much the administrative area.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Did you watch game films with him or sit in
on any coaches meet?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I did. I was allowed to just roam around as
though I was a speck on the wall, and I
watched how they did things and how he did things.
And I even remember one time we were looking at
the film in the basement of the house and he
(18:22):
got called to the phone, and I'm sitting there and
they began to talk about him and their grievances as though,
you know, I guess I wasn't gonna know or respond.
But it was a very fun way to grow up,
(18:44):
and I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Seven years after that nineteen fifty five championship season, he
got forced out in Cleveland, and you had to deal
with Art Modell for decades as he owned the Browns
and the Ravens. Was that difficult for you personally?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Well, it was for our family. It really did impact
my father. It was something that he quite honestly, never
thought could happen, and it did. So he was out
of football for five years, and it was during that
time that we pursued the franchise that became the Bengals.
(19:27):
Except for him, there wouldn't be a franchise in Cincinnati.
It's just that cut and drying, and I think that's
something that pleases me. I don't go around talking about it,
but it's always something that I take pride in.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We're visiting the Bengals President Mike Brown. Let's move to
another anniversary. This is the fiftieth anniversary of the nineteen
seventy five Bengals, a team that went eleven and three,
the franchise record for best winning percentage in a season. Unfortunately,
two of the three regular season losses were to the Steelers,
who went on to win the Super Bowl. The other
loss that year was to the Browns, who were zero
(20:11):
to nine at the time. They were coached by Forrest Gregg.
Did that game have any impact on your decision and
your father's decision as well to hire Forrest a few
years later?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think my father was impressed with how Forrest coached,
and I think that it didn't hurt that Forrest got
fired by Art Model two. They had something in common.
Forest became a dear friend of mine when he was
done here because we weren't so different in age, and we
(20:47):
would go out every Friday night with Forrest and his
wife and me and my wife, and Jack Schiff and
his wife, and we just were a group of couples
that would go out and have a nice time together.
I have a high opinion of for Us as a person,
(21:13):
and he was different. I think it was good that
he was different because I came to understand how some
of that worked too. He was a wonderful guy.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That seventy five team lost by three in the playoffs
on the road at Oakland, and then four days after
the season, your father announced he was stepping down his
head coach. He was sixty seven at the time. Pete
Carroll's going to be seventy four this year. Bill Belichick
is moving on to a college job at the age
of seventy three. If your father had kept coaching after
(21:48):
that eleven and three final season, would history have been
significantly different for the Bengals.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I don't know. It is something that nobody knows, but
that team, we had a good team. We lost Oakland
in a playoff game at Oakland, and the reason we
lost was we were in position to win the game.
It looked like we were going to win the game.
We were within field goal range, and then we didn't
(22:20):
block one of their rushers who was a good player,
and that determined the game. I remember sitting on the
bus afterwards and the old Kentucky quarterback that played forever,
the kicker. Maybe you can remember George George. George walked
(22:42):
out and he saw me sitting there and he said, Oh,
don't be so desponded, that your time will come. And
I don't know what that was supposed to do for me.
It was not much solace at the time.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Let's talk about another anniversary. This is the twentieth anniversary
of the two thousand and five season that was the
first of Marvin Lewis's four AFC North titles. It's one
of my favorite seasons as a Bengals fan. Carson Palmer
emerged as one of the NFL's best young quarterbacks. Chad
Johnson became a national sensation. Odell Thurman might have had
the best year by a rookie defensive player you've ever had.
(23:22):
Do you have a fondness for that two thousand and
five team.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
They have a fondness for the individual players. Carson was
a great passer. He could really throw the ball just
about as well as you would ever see. And Thurman
had exceptional quickness. We've had some great full Perdon mess,
(23:48):
some great middle linebackers, and he was one of them.
Really a good player. And who is the other one
that you Chad? Chad? Of course was Chad. He the quickness,
he could get separation, and he was fearless until he
wasn't later in his career, but at that stage he was.
(24:10):
That was a good group of talented players. And some
of these things hang by a here. You just look
back and wonder why they didn't get over the hump.
They're so close. And we were good enough to have
done it with that team. We were good enough to
have done.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It, and unfortunately we know what happened in the playoffs.
On your first offensive snap against the Steelers, Carson tours
ACL and Pittsburgh not only won the game, but went
on to win the Super Bowl. He lost Greg Cook
after a brilliant rookie year, kajohn A Carter tore his
ACL in his first preseason game. Tim Krumery broke his
(24:51):
leg in multiple places in Super Bowl twenty three. Football
injuries happened, But do you think the Bengals have had
unusually bad life.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Of whatever our luck has been, if that's what it was,
was in the cards, And I don't really think of
it in that since we've had some times when guys
got hurt. Probably there were times when the other teams
felt the same way. But the players that you just
(25:23):
mentioned were really good players, and when they got hurt
that would have affected us. Over the years, there been
so many really outstanding players. I do think that it
is the case that our top players get less notice
or media attention than some do in the larger markets.
(25:48):
And the other thing that is just the fact if
you're going to be considered special in this business, you
better win the Super Bowl, and we haven't. And that's
the thing that puts a cap on the attention we get.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I have one more anniversary and unfortunately one more injury.
This is the tenth anniversary of the twenty fifteen team
that started eight to oh. They had a ten and
two record when Andy Dalton broke his thumb. Denver went
on to win the Super Bowl with an injury hampered Peyton,
Manning leading the way before he retired at full strength
(26:26):
that year. Did you feel like you had the AFC's
best team.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I always feel like we have the It was a
good team, and he was a fine player, very steady
and very accurate. When I say steady, he wasn't upset
by things that could discombobulate a quarterback. He just worked
right through them, and he was a special player for us.
(26:56):
We've had other top quarterbacks, I think more than our share,
but we've had them, and we've had a lot of
good teams because of them. We're sort of offensively oriented
as a general rule, and that requires the top quarterback,
(27:18):
and we've managed to have those guys. But you don't
have them every year. It is just the way the
league works. Right now, we have one that's pretty special
and I have hopes. I guess because of that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We are having this conversation just before the start of
training camp. Did you take a vacation in the off
season where you didn't come into the office.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Well, I like coming into the office, so this is
a little niche for me to go pad around in
and I have a lot of books down here that
I can read if I have time. It's probably the
case that my wife is glad that I go out
of the house for most of the day, and anyway,
(28:14):
I don't think of vacationing. It's a mistake I made
when I was younger, not to take vacations with the
family like I should have. I did a couple of times,
but not enough. I always encourage our guys to do that.
I've lived my life on this schedule. When my father
(28:37):
was coaching, I used to be the one that was
handed the keys when he went off in the wintertime
to Florida or later California, and then my job was
to make sure the place didn't blow up, which of
course it wasn't going to do. But it is a
(29:02):
nice life. I am lucky to have had a good run,
and I think the powers that being.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
We recently learned that Dave Lapham and Lamar Parrish are
going into the Bengals Ring of Honor. What immediately comes
to mind when you think of those two great former Bengals.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Well with Lamar, he was truly a great player. He
was the best cornerback I've ever seen. He was what
they call a shutdown cornerback. Every team talks as though
they might have one, but you don't really see very many.
Lamar was the quickest guy we ever had. He was
(29:46):
a great returner, great punt returner. I think he still
holds a record here for longest average punt return over
the course of a season, something like seventeen point five
yards or whatever it is. Eight Well, good for you,
(30:06):
good for him, Yes, that's right, and he deserves this.
Dave is a special guy. First saw him at the
North South game back when he was in his senior
(30:27):
year of college of getting ready for the draft, and
I went into the locker room down there at Old
Stadium downtown in Birmingham. Dave was a big, impressive guy.
He was just sitting on the training table and I
(30:49):
walked by and I thought, geez, that guy he built right,
what's wrong with him? And anyway, he caught my eye.
Then afted him as I remember in the third round.
He played for a long long time. He could play
every single position. Very smart guy. He just does not
(31:10):
the one that shows off how intelligent he is. He
makes a point of not being noticed that way. But
I've always respected him. He's done a great job for us.
After his football career as well as during his career,
(31:33):
and I think of him as an integral part of
our organization. He's a very special man. I like him
a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm right there with you. Training camp gets underway on Wednesday.
Are the butterflies and the excitement level as great as ever.
After being around pro football training camps for more than
seventy years now.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
I always look forward to this. It's something that probably
isn't made for everybody, but for me, it's what I know,
what I've done all my life, and when the football
starts up, it's like the band coming down the street
(32:18):
and the parade. I just feel it in my bones
and want to get out and see I like looking
at the new players, and that's it's fun to see
what they look like and think about how they might fit,
what they might do to improve it. That'll be in
(32:38):
the next day or two that I get out there
and do that. Now look forward to it. It is
true that we have them during the off season anymore,
but you don't do enough in those workouts to get
the feel for a player that you do during training
(33:01):
camp when they are actually playing the game some and
you get to see how they can handle things, so yes,
this is one of the best times of the year
for me sort of. My dad used to say, is
(33:22):
a Christmas when they had the draft. Well, this is
Christmas after you've opened the presence, I guess, which is
not a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I always enjoy our trips down memory Lane. I know
the fans enjoyed as well. Thanks so much for your time, Mike.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Well, thank you. It's fun for me to be here
with you.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
That's going to do it for this episode of the
Bengals Booth Podcast brought to you by pay Corps, proud
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(34:06):
done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if
you have a minute, give it a rating or share
a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm
Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.
Hi, get everybody on Dan Horden. Thanks for downloading the
Bengals Booth Podcast the OOO the Yes addition, as we
discussed the upcoming season and a remarkable life in football
with team president Mike Brown. The Bengals Booth Podcast is
brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the
Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber, future proof
(00:26):
fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community
to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder
that you can have the latest edition of this podcast
delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing
(00:47):
wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since
clear laundry detergent cups. I did laundry last night and
was reminded of a major pet peeve. A few times
I've purchased detergent, the measuring cup that screws on to
the top has not been see through. Our current one
is red, so when you pour the detergent in, it's
(01:10):
hard to see the measuring lines. What gives clear cup, easy,
dark cup difficult. So if my clothes appear dirty or
smell a little stinky, blame it on the engineering genius
who messed with a good thing. Now, let's get to football.
(01:31):
The Bengals held their annual pre training camp media day
on Monday, and the highlight for me is always the
opportunity to visit with Mike Brown. After Mike discusses Bengals
business with local reporters, he always sits down for a
separate interview with me, where we typically discuss Bengal's history.
Mike will be ninety years old in a few weeks,
(01:53):
and he's still sharp as attack. Here's player personnel director
Duke Tobin on his boss's involvement.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Mike's the first one in the building every day in
the offseason, the only one in on the weekends. So
he's here. He's all football, all the time. It's his life,
it's his passion. He wants to be involved, he wants
to know what's going on. I think he's willing to
(02:21):
listen and understand others and delegate responsibilities as he's gotten older,
but he's certainly fun to be around because his passion
for what we do in the NFL and football in
general is high level, and it's really cool to see
his routine continue, and his routine is football.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
According to ESPN BET, there are only five teams this
year with better Super Bowl odds than the Bengals. Duke
Tobin calls it a championship caliber team, but it's not
in Mike's nature to say the same thing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, we have to prove it. And I grew up
in a coach's family, and my dad, who was a coach,
spent all his time not trying to raise expectations. That
was dangerous to do that, and I was taught that
(03:18):
that's how you ought to behave when this question is presented,
not declare victory before you've assembled to start the training camp.
I think we have good players, so does Baltimore, Sodaes, Pittsburgh,
(03:39):
and so does Cleveland. We have to prove that we're
better than they are. We're going to try. In my heart,
I like to think we can do that, but I
know how difficult it is. And that's about all I'm
going to say on it.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
How much involvedment do you still have on personnel decisions?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Well, when we well a lot, I stay involved. I've
tried to shift responsibility as the years have piled on,
and I've pretty well done that. In the play. I
(04:26):
don't coach the team. I don't necessarily pick the players.
I have a voice, but it is a noise. The
guy I would pick might be someone different. It's the
proper that I accept that. But I do have a voice, though,
(04:49):
and I do enjoy that part of it. It's fun
for me. I really like seeing the new guys when
they show up, and I get all excited inside. Try
not to show it, but I really really interested in
how they're going to do. I think we have some
good wines this year, and we obviously have one more
(05:11):
to figure out, but we'll get it done. I think
at some point.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The one more to figure out is obviously first round
draft pick Shamar Stuart, who remains unsigned as I record this.
The Bengals are trying to insert language into the contract
that would void future guarantees if Stuart gets into serious trouble.
It's language that's common with other NFL teams, but since
the Bengals last few first round draft picks haven't had
(05:37):
that language in their contracts, Shamar remains unsigned. Again. Here
are Duke Tobin and Mike Brown.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
The difference is minute, and it's just a clarification of
what is already agreed it means, and we're probably the
last team to put it in, so we're not at
the front end of this evolution. Maybe we're catching. But
the contracts also evolve in signing bonus and guaranteed percentage
(06:06):
and how many people in the draft get guarantees, so
they evolve in positive ways for both, and we're just
coming in line with what the rest of the league
is doing. If I thought we were being unfair, I
probably would hesitate, but I don't believe that, and I
don't certainly don't think that's the case. There's not much
(06:28):
to negotiate. You've got to look really hard to find
something to get mad about. And sometimes that's what we've
gotten caught up in, is somebody trying to prove their
worth by getting mad about something that doesn't matter. And
the rookie contracts are normally not very difficult. They're pretty slotted,
and so it's a little unusual. This is where it is.
(06:55):
I can't say I understand it, and I can't say
I blamed Shamar for it, because Schamar's just listening to
the advice he's paid for and I don't understand it,
but I'm not the one paying for that advice.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
This one is surprising. I hesitate to get into the detail,
but basically it turns on whether out years are guaranteed
if he gets involved in conduct detrimental to football. Well,
(07:27):
what does that mean? Detrimental to football in recent years
has been violence to women. That's about the one that
comes to mine. There are others, probably, but that's the
one that I think. Well, if we get a player
who gets involved in something like that or does something
that is just unacceptable, guess what, I don't want to
(07:49):
pay him. I really don't. If he's sitting in jail,
I don't think I ought to be paying him. And
so we say that if he got involved in conduct detrimental,
we'd have the right to terminate the guaranteed part for
the back years. He says, or his agent says, oh no,
(08:11):
you can terminate the guaranteed part only for the remaining
part of the year in which the event occurs. Oddly,
something like this has never occurred in my memory with us.
I don't think it's going to occur. So we're sitting
(08:34):
here arguing over something that I think is pretty remote,
and I ask myself sometimes why the hell we're doing it,
But we are, and he's doing it too, And at
some point we got to put this stuff behind and
just get him signed and get him up here and
(08:55):
get him so he can be a contributor. He needs
to get underw soon. It doesn't help him or us
to have this strung out.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
He is going to be a fantastic NFL football player.
He really is, because he's fierce, he's determined, he's strong,
he's fast, and nothing but high level respect for his ability.
And I think he's an excellent person and I'm looking
forward to having them here and having them around our
(09:27):
football team. Earlier is better with most things, and this
one would fall into that category.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Then there's Trey Hendrickson, who is under contract, wants a raise,
had an extension.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, we're working at it. It came over here and
we have people back in our office who are sharpening
their pencils and trying to figure that out as I speak.
Here has been a long negotiation. Trey Henderson is a
(10:00):
fine player, he's a good guy. We want him here.
Dealing with him is sometimes not so easy. That's all right.
He's got the right to argue his case. We'll try
to make sense of it from our perspective. We'll see
I'm not persuaded that it isn't going to get done.
(10:25):
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Trays an important part of our football team, and it's
been a very good player for us. I have a
ton of respect for him. He is part of our
football team. He's under contract, and like I said in
the past, he's earned a raise, he's earned an extension.
We're trying to do that and hopefully we'll be able
to do something that makes him happy and that we
(10:49):
can work with. It's not a bad thing having a
ton of good players, and a lot with good players
come very big contracts, and we've got that. That's what
makes our team good because we have dynamic, first rate players,
and so it's a good problem to have. But we're
working through it and hopefully something can come together. Right now,
(11:10):
he's a part of our football team. We expect him
to be here.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
The Bengals are obviously not the only team with contract issues,
but whenever they have one, some members of the national
media label them as cheap. That's despite the massive deals
given to Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase and t Higgins over
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Oh, it's just the form of foolish and sweat. We
deal with the media, and the media says things. A
lot of what they say is really on point and helpful,
and sometimes what they say is invalid, not true, just
(11:51):
the opinion of someone who isn't informed. That pretty well
falls into that question you ask, in my opinion, fall
into the ladder department. Because we operate under a cap system.
We pay out the last couple of years more than
(12:12):
the cap, so that reduces what we can pay in
the future. But that isn't being cheap. It's just trying
to make the system operate the way we can. Sometimes
we paid out so much in the cap system that
it makes it hard to form up a contract for someone.
(12:35):
At the end of the negotiating period, the money's already
been paid to others. That influences what we can pay.
But it isn't the question of being cheap. We will
pay out the full cap and go forward. As far
as the stadium is concerned. Our deal is within the
(12:57):
generality of what other deals are for NFL teams and
markets similar to ours that have stadiums similar to ours.
We pay out as much as the other teams do.
It's just talk by people that really don't understand the
system or us, and I don't pay much attention to it.
(13:20):
That doesn't bother me much.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Instead of listening to praise or criticism, Mike focuses on
his football team. Chances are he'll be sitting on his
golf cart for every minute of training camp.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I do it because I like doing it. I've done
it all my life. This is a football business and
that appeals to me. It's what I want to be
involved and I want to see our players. I want
to watch how they're coach. I get pleasure out of
doing that. It's one of the benefits that I have
(13:53):
that is most important to me, and I enjoy it.
I like being in this business. I don't apologize for
doing it because I can do it, and it's something
that I have the right to do if I choose
to do it anyway. It's fun for me. It might
(14:15):
not be fun for everybody. I don't suppose it would be,
but for me, it's fun. I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Coming up next, my one on one conversation with Mike.
As we look back at some significant anniversaries. But first,
here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is
brought to you by Pai Core, Proud to be the
Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future Proof
Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community
(14:44):
to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's my latest visit
with Mike Brown. Mike, I want to start with an anniversary.
This is the seventieth anniversary of your father's seventh and
(15:04):
final Pro football championship team, the nineteen fifty five Cleveland Browns.
Between the ages of ten and twenty, your dad's team
played for a league championship every year as a young man.
Did you take it for granted?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh not really. I remember when I was in high school.
So that's a sophomore in high school and what's make
me fifteen? We lost to the Rams, and when I
got there, the high school coach said to me that
this sun will come up tomorrow. Of course I knew
(15:40):
that I resented him saying that because I didn't want
to be thought of as so stupid that I would
be unable to handle what happened. And he had great teams,
a lot of great players. The other day I looked,
and I think I came up with eight who were
(16:02):
in the Hall of Fame. I think it's actually beyond
that because it was over seventeen years in Cleveland, but
in the first a few years they had eight, and
they were mainly offensive players. It was a fun time,
(16:28):
it was. I just took it as the way the
world was. In the high school kids would would go
up to a football game that was a night that
we weren't playing whatever nearby with my buddies and sitting
(16:48):
in the crowd, and one of them always liked to
start saying that Paul Brown, he's a dumbest solb and
then the people around would react, and it always delighted
him when they reacted in a way that was supposed
to make me angry, but of course it didn't. But
(17:11):
it was a memory I had of those times.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
How did those great years influence your desire to make
this your life's work?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Well, I liked the football part of it, This part
of it that I've been in all my life, was
not what I set out to do, but he did
not want me to be a football coach, and I
can understand why. It's a hard life in a lot
(17:42):
of ways. So I went to law school and I
ended up here. The fun of it's in the coaching area,
not so much the administrative area.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Did you watch game films with him or sit in
on any coaches meet?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I did. I was allowed to just roam around as
though I was a speck on the wall, and I
watched how they did things and how he did things.
And I even remember one time we were looking at
the film in the basement of the house and he
(18:22):
got called to the phone, and I'm sitting there and
they began to talk about him and their grievances as though,
you know, I guess I wasn't gonna know or respond.
But it was a very fun way to grow up,
(18:44):
and I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Seven years after that nineteen fifty five championship season, he
got forced out in Cleveland, and you had to deal
with Art Modell for decades as he owned the Browns
and the Ravens. Was that difficult for you personally?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Well, it was for our family. It really did impact
my father. It was something that he quite honestly, never
thought could happen, and it did. So he was out
of football for five years, and it was during that
time that we pursued the franchise that became the Bengals.
(19:27):
Except for him, there wouldn't be a franchise in Cincinnati.
It's just that cut and drying, and I think that's
something that pleases me. I don't go around talking about it,
but it's always something that I take pride in.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We're visiting the Bengals President Mike Brown. Let's move to
another anniversary. This is the fiftieth anniversary of the nineteen
seventy five Bengals, a team that went eleven and three,
the franchise record for best winning percentage in a season. Unfortunately,
two of the three regular season losses were to the Steelers,
who went on to win the Super Bowl. The other
loss that year was to the Browns, who were zero
(20:11):
to nine at the time. They were coached by Forrest Gregg.
Did that game have any impact on your decision and
your father's decision as well to hire Forrest a few
years later?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think my father was impressed with how Forrest coached,
and I think that it didn't hurt that Forrest got
fired by Art Model two. They had something in common.
Forest became a dear friend of mine when he was
done here because we weren't so different in age, and we
(20:47):
would go out every Friday night with Forrest and his
wife and me and my wife, and Jack Schiff and
his wife, and we just were a group of couples
that would go out and have a nice time together.
I have a high opinion of for Us as a person,
(21:13):
and he was different. I think it was good that
he was different because I came to understand how some
of that worked too. He was a wonderful guy.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That seventy five team lost by three in the playoffs
on the road at Oakland, and then four days after
the season, your father announced he was stepping down his
head coach. He was sixty seven at the time. Pete
Carroll's going to be seventy four this year. Bill Belichick
is moving on to a college job at the age
of seventy three. If your father had kept coaching after
(21:48):
that eleven and three final season, would history have been
significantly different for the Bengals.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I don't know. It is something that nobody knows, but
that team, we had a good team. We lost Oakland
in a playoff game at Oakland, and the reason we
lost was we were in position to win the game.
It looked like we were going to win the game.
We were within field goal range, and then we didn't
(22:20):
block one of their rushers who was a good player,
and that determined the game. I remember sitting on the
bus afterwards and the old Kentucky quarterback that played forever,
the kicker. Maybe you can remember George George. George walked
(22:42):
out and he saw me sitting there and he said, Oh,
don't be so desponded, that your time will come. And
I don't know what that was supposed to do for me.
It was not much solace at the time.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Let's talk about another anniversary. This is the twentieth anniversary
of the two thousand and five season that was the
first of Marvin Lewis's four AFC North titles. It's one
of my favorite seasons as a Bengals fan. Carson Palmer
emerged as one of the NFL's best young quarterbacks. Chad
Johnson became a national sensation. Odell Thurman might have had
the best year by a rookie defensive player you've ever had.
(23:22):
Do you have a fondness for that two thousand and
five team.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
They have a fondness for the individual players. Carson was
a great passer. He could really throw the ball just
about as well as you would ever see. And Thurman
had exceptional quickness. We've had some great full Perdon mess,
(23:48):
some great middle linebackers, and he was one of them.
Really a good player. And who is the other one
that you Chad? Chad? Of course was Chad. He the quickness,
he could get separation, and he was fearless until he
wasn't later in his career, but at that stage he was.
(24:10):
That was a good group of talented players. And some
of these things hang by a here. You just look
back and wonder why they didn't get over the hump.
They're so close. And we were good enough to have
done it with that team. We were good enough to
have done.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It, and unfortunately we know what happened in the playoffs.
On your first offensive snap against the Steelers, Carson tours
ACL and Pittsburgh not only won the game, but went
on to win the Super Bowl. He lost Greg Cook
after a brilliant rookie year, kajohn A Carter tore his
ACL in his first preseason game. Tim Krumery broke his
(24:51):
leg in multiple places in Super Bowl twenty three. Football
injuries happened, But do you think the Bengals have had
unusually bad life.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Of whatever our luck has been, if that's what it was,
was in the cards, And I don't really think of
it in that since we've had some times when guys
got hurt. Probably there were times when the other teams
felt the same way. But the players that you just
(25:23):
mentioned were really good players, and when they got hurt
that would have affected us. Over the years, there been
so many really outstanding players. I do think that it
is the case that our top players get less notice
or media attention than some do in the larger markets.
(25:48):
And the other thing that is just the fact if
you're going to be considered special in this business, you
better win the Super Bowl, and we haven't. And that's
the thing that puts a cap on the attention we get.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I have one more anniversary and unfortunately one more injury.
This is the tenth anniversary of the twenty fifteen team
that started eight to oh. They had a ten and
two record when Andy Dalton broke his thumb. Denver went
on to win the Super Bowl with an injury hampered Peyton,
Manning leading the way before he retired at full strength
(26:26):
that year. Did you feel like you had the AFC's
best team.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I always feel like we have the It was a
good team, and he was a fine player, very steady
and very accurate. When I say steady, he wasn't upset
by things that could discombobulate a quarterback. He just worked
right through them, and he was a special player for us.
(26:56):
We've had other top quarterbacks, I think more than our share,
but we've had them, and we've had a lot of
good teams because of them. We're sort of offensively oriented
as a general rule, and that requires the top quarterback,
(27:18):
and we've managed to have those guys. But you don't
have them every year. It is just the way the
league works. Right now, we have one that's pretty special
and I have hopes. I guess because of that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We are having this conversation just before the start of
training camp. Did you take a vacation in the off
season where you didn't come into the office.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Well, I like coming into the office, so this is
a little niche for me to go pad around in
and I have a lot of books down here that
I can read if I have time. It's probably the
case that my wife is glad that I go out
of the house for most of the day, and anyway,
(28:14):
I don't think of vacationing. It's a mistake I made
when I was younger, not to take vacations with the
family like I should have. I did a couple of times,
but not enough. I always encourage our guys to do that.
I've lived my life on this schedule. When my father
(28:37):
was coaching, I used to be the one that was
handed the keys when he went off in the wintertime
to Florida or later California, and then my job was
to make sure the place didn't blow up, which of
course it wasn't going to do. But it is a
(29:02):
nice life. I am lucky to have had a good run,
and I think the powers that being.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
We recently learned that Dave Lapham and Lamar Parrish are
going into the Bengals Ring of Honor. What immediately comes
to mind when you think of those two great former Bengals.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Well with Lamar, he was truly a great player. He
was the best cornerback I've ever seen. He was what
they call a shutdown cornerback. Every team talks as though
they might have one, but you don't really see very many.
Lamar was the quickest guy we ever had. He was
(29:46):
a great returner, great punt returner. I think he still
holds a record here for longest average punt return over
the course of a season, something like seventeen point five
yards or whatever it is. Eight Well, good for you,
(30:06):
good for him, Yes, that's right, and he deserves this.
Dave is a special guy. First saw him at the
North South game back when he was in his senior
(30:27):
year of college of getting ready for the draft, and
I went into the locker room down there at Old
Stadium downtown in Birmingham. Dave was a big, impressive guy.
He was just sitting on the training table and I
(30:49):
walked by and I thought, geez, that guy he built right,
what's wrong with him? And anyway, he caught my eye.
Then afted him as I remember in the third round.
He played for a long long time. He could play
every single position. Very smart guy. He just does not
(31:10):
the one that shows off how intelligent he is. He
makes a point of not being noticed that way. But
I've always respected him. He's done a great job for us.
After his football career as well as during his career,
(31:33):
and I think of him as an integral part of
our organization. He's a very special man. I like him
a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm right there with you. Training camp gets underway on Wednesday.
Are the butterflies and the excitement level as great as ever.
After being around pro football training camps for more than
seventy years now.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
I always look forward to this. It's something that probably
isn't made for everybody, but for me, it's what I know,
what I've done all my life, and when the football
starts up, it's like the band coming down the street
(32:18):
and the parade. I just feel it in my bones
and want to get out and see I like looking
at the new players, and that's it's fun to see
what they look like and think about how they might fit,
what they might do to improve it. That'll be in
(32:38):
the next day or two that I get out there
and do that. Now look forward to it. It is
true that we have them during the off season anymore,
but you don't do enough in those workouts to get
the feel for a player that you do during training
(33:01):
camp when they are actually playing the game some and
you get to see how they can handle things, so yes,
this is one of the best times of the year
for me sort of. My dad used to say, is
(33:22):
a Christmas when they had the draft. Well, this is
Christmas after you've opened the presence, I guess, which is
not a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I always enjoy our trips down memory Lane. I know
the fans enjoyed as well. Thanks so much for your time, Mike.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Well, thank you. It's fun for me to be here
with you.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
That's going to do it for this episode of the
Bengals Booth Podcast brought to you by pay Corps, proud
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(34:06):
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Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.
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