October 9, 2025 • 22 mins
In this week's episode of Between The Horns, J.B. Long and D'Marco Farr sit down with staff writer Stu Jackson to discuss key components to stopping Baltimore Ravens running back Derrick Henry's run game, breaking down Los Angeles Rams' special teams area of improvements, and more.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, it's week six, Rams and Ravens and Baltimore.
Welcome back to Between the Horns, presented by your Southern
California Tell you to dealers.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm JB.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Long with Super Bowl champion DeMarco farr and making his
first appearance. I think in the regular season on this
show to Jackson, what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Number two?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You could have in the program.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Maybe it is because I noticed the shoes before. This
is a second see come on, No, all right, I
missed you. Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, how's your MANI by guys, how is your weekend away?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good? I mean hard? Because you lost the last time out?
Can't wait for Sunday so you can, you know, go
back and get this bad taste out of your mouth.
But you know, not bad. Watching the tape, going back
through it again, there's a lot of good stuff on there.
I know you didn't get the result you wanted, and
I know you lost to your most hated rival, but
you know, when you're breaking stuff down, there's a lot
(00:57):
of positive This team is getting better in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I definitely had a hard time adhering to the twenty
four hour rule, I'll say, but it made it easier
having a friend in town visiting and doing some stuff
with that group over the weekend. So it's good.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think, what's it a salve maybe to have Seattle
and Arizona implode late at home and kind of give
you a couple back. It's interesting that the whole division
goes on the road this week. The Rams are the
only NFC West favorite away from home. So here's hoping
that a victory Monday, if it's in store for the Rams,
can turn things around pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Petty, If I lose, I want everyone else to lose
to it makes me feel better. What's that?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What's that saying about misery loving company?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah? Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
All right, Rams got some Yeah. In terms of own it,
fix it, where should we start? Is it ball security?
Is it kicking lows? You pick your lane and tell
us how the Rams are finally going to get right
in these areas that you know our fans have been
all over them. Yeah, as real source spots, and they've
cost LA some games.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I would go kicking game. That's the easiest thing to fix.
I think, you know Kyron and Blake Korum putting the
ball on the ground, You're going to have to give
them carries. We're all gonna hold their breath. You're gonna
have to dig yourself out of that hole. That's one
thing you can't replace those two guys. Kyron will take
carries and so will Blake Krum. The kicking game, that's
something that should be fixed. That shouldn't be an issue
(02:16):
at this point. Like you said, week six and we're
still talking about this. This is stuff you deal with
in preseason going into week one. It should not be
an issue now. So yeah, that to me is number one.
You have to fix what's going on there first, because
it doesn't matter if you're good on defense, it doesn't
matter if you have an all pro quarterback. If you're
not good there in the third phase, you're gonna lose
(02:38):
football games or put your win in jeopardy weekend and weekend.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, three of the last four games have featured failures
in that dimension. They got out of Tennessee with the win,
but it's not unrealistic to say, and there's plenty of
other things that have gone wrong for the Rams and
their two losses, but it's not unrealistic to say that
if either one of two kicking operations in Philadelphia or
home at so if I stadium go the other go
between the pipes. This team is the last undefeated team
(03:03):
in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, I agree completely with DeMarco. I mean, when Sean
McVay says that it's not just one thing with the
kicking game that's the problem or the sore spot that
to me is the priority or the greater cause for concern.
I mean, ball security issues, protect the ball better, concentrate better.
But with you know, the operation having multiple kicking operation
(03:24):
having multiple issues, I think that's where I think I
prioritize and put more of my attention.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I don't know if this makes it better or worse,
but like you guys probably did, I revisited the twenty
three trip to Baltimore, and it helps me at least,
I think the punting operation and punt covers in a
much better spot. Right with Evan Evans having lost that
game in overtime against a backup punt returner even though
there's a block in the back, but that's okay, it's
been doing us. And then the other thing is you
remember Lucas Haversik was the kicker that day in Baltimore,
(03:52):
and he actually made one to force overtime, but I
don't want to revisit those times in terms of the
kicking churn and the search for your your next specialist.
I think Cardi is the guy. He's done a lot
of good, especially off the tee. I'll be curious to
see how much squib kicking he does or if the
Rams make a change there, because it seems like there's
some true to the fact that maybe his kickoffs are
(04:14):
impacting his place kicking.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wonder that's true.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, Yeah, it was interesting because you know, I think
it was you asking Coach about on the Coach McVay
show McAfee. Yeah, on behalf of McAfee, who was speculating
that maybe the you know, the squib kicks and the
mechanics with that are potentially causing some issues with with
Cardi and his kicks on field goals, and you know,
he said, you know, that's a fair, you know, fair
(04:37):
fair observation to make.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Do wonder about that too, because Chase Blackburn last time
he spoke to the media, he said that, you know,
mechanically they're they were trying to make it so that
there was you know, little difference, or to not have
it as much of an impact, but you know, maybe
that hasn't necessarily been the case, or it's gone in
a direction that maybe they didn't expect in terms of
how those mechanics have you know, impacted that motion.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, with the exception of one, the one that didn't
make it to the green zone, drop zone, whatever it
is where you have to kick it, those knuckleballs have
been wildly effective. You just cannot hit those, catch those
cleanly and get on a dead run. So they've helped you.
So I hope one doesn't affect the other, because that
would stink if you have to get rid of one.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Two personnel questions, one on offense, one on defense. Maybe
Steve knows the answer. That's kind of his role around
here left guard. I think we've all kind of been
waiting for Steve Avola to come back and take his
job back. I will say Dietisch has put together his
two best performances the last two times out. Do you
know where the Rams are heading going to Baltimore at
left guard?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
What Sean McVay has said is that, you know, if
Steve practices and plays the way he expects throughout this week,
then he will earn his starting job back. I do
give McVeigh credit for saying that or going with continuity,
I should say in terms of you know, if you
practice what you preach with competition and you know you're
doing what you think is best for the team, then
(06:03):
with the way Dtitch has been playing, then that's that's
what you're sticking with. But you know, at least from
what I've seen in just you know, the the one
viewing period of practice that we've had to this point
as of recording this, like it seemed it seems to be,
you know, trending in that direction. But again, there's still
a couple more practices to go, and like McVeigh said,
(06:25):
it's on you know, Steve to ultimately show.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That I've labeled Detach the bouncer. He looks like a
bouncer and that's how he plays. He just runs people
up out of there. It's so funny. I told people
this before he when I played, I hated guards that
look like him, the short, stocky guys, because low man
wins and he's already down here. It's kind of like
pun a forward playing guard. It's the same thing. It
drives you nuts, it drives everybody nuts. But Steve has girth.
(06:50):
Steve is a big dude. You don't want Steve leaning
on you for four quarters. That's why he's here. So
I'm with you. I'm glad did has played his butt off.
Go the continuity, but it is Thieve's job. Give him
a chance to win it back.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Let's go to defense next. And if I had told
you leaving Sofi Stadium a last Thursday night that Omar
Spates had a high ankle and might be missing some time,
would you believe that? Didn't see any sign of that.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
He played through it, watched every single sign, but I
heard it was you. I was reading you. Oh my god,
Omar Spates is heard. Wait a minute, let me go
back and check the tape, went through all. I think
he had like thirty seven to play thirty eight? Whatever
was every single snap, even his last one. It looks
like Omar Spates. When did he hurt himself? Did he
slip getting off the bus, getting in a car? I
(07:34):
don't know, but yeah, the dude is he's getting better
and he's playing tough. You're not going to be one
hundred percent in the NFL, but what you have to
do is suck it up and give your best to
your teammates, and that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So if we were to crowdsource this one, Shan Doolac
would make his Rams defensive debut in Baltimore next to
Nate Lamman. Is that the direction you think the Rams go?
Or how do they manage this?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Okay? I don't think you were avoid I don't think
the Rams, the coaching staff, the brain trust. I don't
think they're avoiding Troy Reader. That's not what they're that's
they could care less what people think. But if you
base it on preseason how he played, if you're just
going for a straight replacement, Nate Lanman is the mic,
he calls the plays. Omar Spates is the weak sidebacker.
He's the free hitter the week, the whip, so to speak.
(08:19):
Then your direct backup would be fifty six. And that's
exactly how he played. So if he played anything like
he played in the preseason, then there won't be much
drop off. He will be just as active as Omar
Spates getting to the football.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
There's also the option of promoting someone from the practice squad.
We'll see what the rest of this week holds. Sean
McVay has left that door open a couple of times too.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely, he expressed confidence in Troy Reader and Sean Dolac
as options there, and like you mentioned, he said they've
also got some candidates on the practice squad. But it
was interesting I did go back and read Chris Shule's
comments from August when I asked him, like, you know,
how did essentially like what did Dolac do to make
this team or how to hear and he said, you know,
(09:01):
contribution on special teams, but also like they would have
no hesitation to put him out there on defense if
they really needed to. To this point they haven't. But
that speaks to his readiness and preparedness and his strength
as a possible candidate to go out there if Spates
can't go.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Look the person up for the Ravens and their schematic
probably plays heavily into the Rams. Thinking again, as of
this moment, I think we all agree Lamar is trending
towards not playing week six right, Yes, bye week beyond
for Baltimore. So you could almost get him two weeks
for the price of one. Cooper Rush experienced not great
last week. Maybe they go back to Stoop Puntley. We'll see,
(09:38):
but that's kind of what the Rams are unknowingly preparing
for this week. They do know they'll get Dereck Henry,
and he's slumping a little bit in terms of his production.
And I can't help but believe that has a lot
to do with Lamar's hamstring and the fact that the
best rushing quarterback the league's ever seen has not been
his running mate lately.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh yeah, I think how much easier it is to
defend Derek Henry when you don't have to worry about
Lamar Jackson getting out the back door. All four guys
up front plus the linebackers can just flow to the
ball and go to Derrick Henry. With Lamar Jackson, you
have to dedicate someone or even if it's not your job,
and he pulls that ball out or you think he is,
you have to honor that because he's as fast as
(10:16):
anyone out there. So without him, different back, different scheme,
different offense, same approach like they did last week. Just
make Derrick Henry choke it down in the backfield. Don't
let him get ahead of steam, because if he does,
he's the juggernaut. But if you make him choke it down,
that's a big target, even for a guy as I
wouldn't say as small as do like, he's not the
biggest guy in the world, but Derek Henry's bigger than most.
(10:38):
So if you make him choke it down, you have
a bigger target to hit.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
When Lamar's out there, it changes the math, especially in
the box, and that's what and that his threat as
a runner is in a lot of ways, what kind
of what you're talking about impacts the ability for defense
is to decide whether they have to commit to one
or the other. And so I think probably you'd probably
agree with this based on what you've seen on tape,
But I would imagine that they've been able to commit
(11:01):
more defenders to the box without the threat of Lamar
there when he hasn't been out there, and that's made
a little bit more difficult to see Dereck Henry to
get going, not.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Just run arm two. Lamar's accurate, so if you're that
backside safety, you may leave that guy one on one
with the corner and go attack Derrick Henry. That's what's
been happening that I wouldn't expect that to change this
week now.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Going back to last year, between the two Saquon games,
the Rams defense was already improving at shutting down opponents
running attack. But I think year of a year of growth.
I mean, it's been a dream storyline. You look at
the gauntlet that they're running between Saquon Barkley and Jonathan
Taylor and Christian McCaffrey. Can they keep it up against
the Ravens?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I think so, especially when you I just like the
depth you have in the middle at defensive tackle. And
I sound like a broken record, but Kobe Turner, you
can pair him with Poona, you can pair him with
Tyler Davis, you can pair him with Braden Fist. There's
so many different fronts you can throw out and keep
guys fresh. Plus your edge guys are playing like gangbusters.
Byron Young is playing at a pro bowler. Jared Vers
(11:57):
picked up right where he left off, and there's a
new guy in town and Josiah Stewart who looks like
he's been here ten years. So you have a lot
of depth, you have a lot of wheels. You're very young,
and they're playing great. They're playing technically sound up front,
they're going through blockers, they're defeating people. They're not just
running around jumping up field. That carries that travels. There's
(12:18):
a reason they have slowed down and basically stopped three
of the best backs in the league in a row.
And now it's Derrick Henry's turn. So I think that
will travel to.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Baltimore absolutely, And I think too it speaks to the
interchangeability of that group as well. That was something that
Kobe Turner talked a lot about in terms of just
that top four on the along the defensive line in
training camp, just with all the things that would allow
them to do, especially Tyler Davis in the role he
was going to have. And that's something that's shown up
to me as well, especially against the run.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And by the way, I see you, Kobe, when you're
trying to politic for a sack, you know that was
buyer out there. First, get your name of the paper.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, don't know. Did you guys check the forecast? Yet,
always always a fool's errand to predict weather or to
talk about it on a Thursday before a Sunday game.
But it looks like the conditions will be reminiscent of
our twenty twenty three trip to the Inner Harbor, if
not identical, DeMarco.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
If you're going on the road to the AFC's North
expect bad weather, right, So, like I said, one of
you guys has taken my rain shoes. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Pooka gonna wear gloves, are gonna tape up the fingers.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Dude, he is Look it's too late. He is a superstar.
Puka Nakua is a bona fide superstar in the National
Football League. You know him, you cheer for him, and
he gives it to you on game day. He's a
physical receiver. He is your number one right now. When
Matthew Stafford drops back, his first read is him, and
(13:41):
then based off that, I'll go other places. But Puka
is the guy you jammed the ball to, and I
think he's more than earn that.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I think he's also the most improved ram maybe the
most improved player in the league, which is hard to
say it because he set such a high bar as
a rookie and then, despite missing some time last year,
should have been an All Pro again in year two
because he was that much dramatically better. But you can
measure in all sorts of ways, catch rate, lack of drops,
catch transition yards after catch, getting in the end zone
these last couple of games, because he was so good
(14:10):
so early, I think we rob him of his respect
with the work he's done, the lonely quiet off field
work to get better in year three and really to
join that upper echelon.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
As complete of a receiver as there is in the
NFL right now, maybe the most complete, I would argue,
just in terms of run blocking when they put the
ball in his hands on some of those sweeps, you
know what he's asked to do obviously in the past game,
and just all the different routes he can run. Like,
to me, he's making a strong case early on for
our Offensive Player of the Year. I mean, there are
obviously many other players who were in that conversation too,
(14:44):
and that's not to discredit them, but just from from
what I've seen, you know, these these first five weeks,
like it's it's hard. It's hard to put anyone above
him right now in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And related, I think part of what's been so infuriating
about the Rams two loss so far is not just
their self inflicted nature, but coloring our thinking with the
fact that we know the Rams have the best quarterback
in the NFC right now. The five games he's played
so far have been MVP worthy, and so it's it's
so aggravating to not be five and zero when he's
(15:16):
putting these types of games together.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
This is crazy for me. Okay, So Stafford is on
a heater, right, Stafford is at the top, he's top
three and yards and all this stuff. But I actually
think he could play better. I do say more. I
think there's there's there's more there for him. You we
still haven't. They haven't really figured out this DeVante Adams thing.
(15:38):
When that starts to click, there's a whole nother level there. Uh,
there's still moments in games where the offense just kind
of goes stagnant for a while and he'll miss. Then
he'll make it up and finish like gangbusters. Like I said,
So there's he's playing great, and he's the best quarterback
in the NFC, no doubt. I'm right there with you.
But I think he can actually play better than what
he's playing. I really do. And when that starts to happen,
(16:01):
that's when things start to roll.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You're right, DeVante Adams, despite all the good he's done
through five games, is and during the lowest catch rate
of his career. So you think that's going to progress
to the mean over time, more time on task. If
Stafford's running backs hang on the football a little bit better,
his numbers are certainly better if and when they get
more out of their tight end room, including Terence Ferguson,
who caught his first pass as a pro.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What's that mean? That means bingo.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
More isn't always better, right, Like having more options is
not always going to translate to bigger stats. But I
think it will continue to mean good things for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Like you're saying, yes, I think he's all the way back,
no pun intended. Okay, try the.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Way to pay that off. I don't think Tell me
if you disagree. I don't think the Rams overlooked the
Niners last week, do you know?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think the Niners played good ball.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
They were they were slow stars on defense, They were
not ready for primetime on defense those first couple possessions.
They were able to tighten the screws from there. But
I don't think it was for lack of respect. If
for some reason it was message received, they won't do
it again this week against the depleted Baltimore group, right.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I hope not. I'm with you. I thought San Francisco
played better than most people thought. Mac Jones played better
than most people thought. And we said this leading into
the week when we were talking about their injury report.
Christian McCaffrey is good enough to beat you by himself,
so you have to respect that. As long as he's
out there, there's still a legit threat. But yeah, I'll
give you that. The Rams defense kind of they woke
(17:32):
up late, but once they did, they they were great.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
They were punishing, they were absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Punishing, and they gave you a shot to win the game.
So if you start the game the way you finished it, absolutely,
if you hold onto the rock, it's a w. So
let's hope that all that stuff you left it here
in so far?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Am I misremembering? Or was Baltimore like the favorite to
win not just the division but maybe a ring this summer?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They had built maybe the best roster in football, and
I know it's depleted. What was it, six guys with
all Pro honors and on defense, tens of millions of
dollars in active last.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Week, crazy amount of Pro Bowls and cap space absent.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
But if any opponent should recognize and respect what a
one in four team with a championship roster and aspirations
is capable of in any given moment. It's a Los
Angeles Rams. They were just in these cleats a year
ago and look what the Rams were able to do.
So let this not be the week for Baltimore's comeback.
I guess to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I don't think Harbaugh is giving up. Do you know?
I don't think Baltimore is gonna give up. I think
they're gonna keep fighting. Mark Andrews isn't going to forget
how to play football, and Dereck Henry isn't gonna shrink
just because they're one and four. If anything, they're going
to be better. So yeah, it doesn't matter who's out there,
you have to play your best game.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
It's like Sean McVay said, that's a prideful team led
by a prideful head coach. Like there's no way they
let that pass.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
But what's the feeling when you see a team like
Houston who you beat, and you know the state that
the Texans offense started the year and if not is
in currently put up like a record number of points
at M and T Banks Stadium. You know the state
of this defense. Baltimore used to be the best defense
in the league for multiple years now they're the consensus worst.
You walk in there feeling like you should score forty.
(19:07):
But that's a dangerous place to be. That's tough to
sleep on.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
It is. I feel good about my chances, don't you.
I mean, if you beat a team that just you know,
kick the you know what out of them, you feel
good about your chances.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But that's not how this game works.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You have to boil it down. You have to play
our best game, and we have to bring it to
Baltimore first. And then if they do, sure, yeah, I
agree with you. If you beat them, then you should
beat them as bad. But it doesn't work that way
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then the Ram's gonna stay in Baltimore practice at
Camden Yards, I read and get their work in for
London and Jacksonville beyond. We mentioned this earlier, but it
might be worth visiting a little bit more closely.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Here.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
All four NFC West teams on the road San Francisco
at Tampa Bay, Seattle at Jacksonville, Arizona at Indy. The
Rams competition Roade Dogs this week.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I'm a big Baker fan. I'm even more a Baker fan,
right now take it to them who Seattle have again.
Jacksonville Jacksonville, Man, look, Jacksonville is no joke. Jacksonville might
be for real. Way to go, Liam Cohen, Yes, sir,
so yeah, I hope uh that the rest of the
West gets beat up and we come out of Baltimore
with the only win in the division this weekend. That'd
(20:14):
be nice.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Are there closing thoughts keys of victory, anything that we
didn't get to that you want to make sure that
you get out.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Uh just remember, man, I mean like Kyron Williams is
one of your best players, period, end of story. And
if we could fix it, if he could fix it,
if they could fix it, they would. But there's no
way he's not gonna take another Like, you can't bench
the guy. He's one. He's your starting tailback. You're gonna
have to give him carries. He's gonna have to be better.
I think he knows that. But just the one thing
(20:41):
is you've got to fix what's ailing you in the
third phase in the kicking game. That should be the
first thing that was fixed. So maybe that's gone on
a little bit too long. So we'll see. Hopefully that
gets fixed in Baltimore. That's always tricky down there, especially
on special teams. So we'll see. It's a great test.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You remember how uh Sean may Fake called the first
drive of the last trip to Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Pow right down the middle. Yes, gut punch, gut punch,
gut punch. Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I wonder if they don't run it back this week.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Like to see a replay? Why not? Interesting?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I think too, that would go a long way with
avoiding some of the self inflicted mistakes that cost them
last week and being able to control the time of
possession better. That's something that you know, I'm looking forward
to seeing how it plays out this week. I think
the way the forty nine ers controlled the time possession
last week had a lot to do with making the
margins so thin in terms of again some of those
(21:29):
you know, instances where there were those self inflicted mistakes,
and so you avoid those and you do a better
job of controlling time and possession, I think you can
you reach the potential of like you were talking about,
a game like the Texans had last week against Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
You know, it's interesting that you called back to that
that time of possession, which I'm of the mind that
typically it's an overrated football stat. But when you're playing
San Francisco, we've seen that before. We know how consequential
that is. And I almost take consolation from that. And
I'm optimistic that the Rams could have and should have
won that game even though it started the way it did,
because there were previous iterations of this team and of
(22:06):
that rivalry. Where you start a game like that against
Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco, it's over. You're onto the
next week.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Free score loss. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
That that's not how Thursday Night football went. It didn't
finish the way we would have liked, but that's an
interesting callback by used to. I'm gonna feel better about that.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
For senior staff writers Stu Jackson, who may or may
not have made his first appearance this season, check We'll
check Pro Football Reference. But either way, come back soon
and come back off. And yes, the Marco far who's
here every week. I'm JB. Long, Wishing you a good
rest of your week, looking forward to back to back
road trips, first of Baltimore, then to London. We'll talk
to you next time between the Horns because then by
your Southern California Toyta dealers
All right, it's week six, Rams and Ravens and Baltimore.
Welcome back to Between the Horns, presented by your Southern
California Tell you to dealers.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm JB.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Long with Super Bowl champion DeMarco farr and making his
first appearance. I think in the regular season on this
show to Jackson, what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Number two?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You could have in the program.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Maybe it is because I noticed the shoes before. This
is a second see come on, No, all right, I
missed you. Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, how's your MANI by guys, how is your weekend away?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good? I mean hard? Because you lost the last time out?
Can't wait for Sunday so you can, you know, go
back and get this bad taste out of your mouth.
But you know, not bad. Watching the tape, going back
through it again, there's a lot of good stuff on there.
I know you didn't get the result you wanted, and
I know you lost to your most hated rival, but
you know, when you're breaking stuff down, there's a lot
(00:57):
of positive This team is getting better in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I definitely had a hard time adhering to the twenty
four hour rule, I'll say, but it made it easier
having a friend in town visiting and doing some stuff
with that group over the weekend. So it's good.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think, what's it a salve maybe to have Seattle
and Arizona implode late at home and kind of give
you a couple back. It's interesting that the whole division
goes on the road this week. The Rams are the
only NFC West favorite away from home. So here's hoping
that a victory Monday, if it's in store for the Rams,
can turn things around pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Petty, If I lose, I want everyone else to lose
to it makes me feel better. What's that?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What's that saying about misery loving company?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah? Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
All right, Rams got some Yeah. In terms of own it,
fix it, where should we start? Is it ball security?
Is it kicking lows? You pick your lane and tell
us how the Rams are finally going to get right
in these areas that you know our fans have been
all over them. Yeah, as real source spots, and they've
cost LA some games.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I would go kicking game. That's the easiest thing to fix.
I think, you know Kyron and Blake Korum putting the
ball on the ground, You're going to have to give
them carries. We're all gonna hold their breath. You're gonna
have to dig yourself out of that hole. That's one
thing you can't replace those two guys. Kyron will take
carries and so will Blake Krum. The kicking game, that's
something that should be fixed. That shouldn't be an issue
(02:16):
at this point. Like you said, week six and we're
still talking about this. This is stuff you deal with
in preseason going into week one. It should not be
an issue now. So yeah, that to me is number one.
You have to fix what's going on there first, because
it doesn't matter if you're good on defense, it doesn't
matter if you have an all pro quarterback. If you're
not good there in the third phase, you're gonna lose
(02:38):
football games or put your win in jeopardy weekend and weekend.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, three of the last four games have featured failures
in that dimension. They got out of Tennessee with the win,
but it's not unrealistic to say, and there's plenty of
other things that have gone wrong for the Rams and
their two losses, but it's not unrealistic to say that
if either one of two kicking operations in Philadelphia or
home at so if I stadium go the other go
between the pipes. This team is the last undefeated team
(03:03):
in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, I agree completely with DeMarco. I mean, when Sean
McVay says that it's not just one thing with the
kicking game that's the problem or the sore spot that
to me is the priority or the greater cause for concern.
I mean, ball security issues, protect the ball better, concentrate better.
But with you know, the operation having multiple kicking operation
(03:24):
having multiple issues, I think that's where I think I
prioritize and put more of my attention.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I don't know if this makes it better or worse,
but like you guys probably did, I revisited the twenty
three trip to Baltimore, and it helps me at least,
I think the punting operation and punt covers in a
much better spot. Right with Evan Evans having lost that
game in overtime against a backup punt returner even though
there's a block in the back, but that's okay, it's
been doing us. And then the other thing is you
remember Lucas Haversik was the kicker that day in Baltimore,
(03:52):
and he actually made one to force overtime, but I
don't want to revisit those times in terms of the
kicking churn and the search for your your next specialist.
I think Cardi is the guy. He's done a lot
of good, especially off the tee. I'll be curious to
see how much squib kicking he does or if the
Rams make a change there, because it seems like there's
some true to the fact that maybe his kickoffs are
(04:14):
impacting his place kicking.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wonder that's true.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, Yeah, it was interesting because you know, I think
it was you asking Coach about on the Coach McVay
show McAfee. Yeah, on behalf of McAfee, who was speculating
that maybe the you know, the squib kicks and the
mechanics with that are potentially causing some issues with with
Cardi and his kicks on field goals, and you know,
he said, you know, that's a fair, you know, fair
(04:37):
fair observation to make.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Do wonder about that too, because Chase Blackburn last time
he spoke to the media, he said that, you know,
mechanically they're they were trying to make it so that
there was you know, little difference, or to not have
it as much of an impact, but you know, maybe
that hasn't necessarily been the case, or it's gone in
a direction that maybe they didn't expect in terms of
how those mechanics have you know, impacted that motion.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, with the exception of one, the one that didn't
make it to the green zone, drop zone, whatever it
is where you have to kick it, those knuckleballs have
been wildly effective. You just cannot hit those, catch those
cleanly and get on a dead run. So they've helped you.
So I hope one doesn't affect the other, because that
would stink if you have to get rid of one.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Two personnel questions, one on offense, one on defense. Maybe
Steve knows the answer. That's kind of his role around
here left guard. I think we've all kind of been
waiting for Steve Avola to come back and take his
job back. I will say Dietisch has put together his
two best performances the last two times out. Do you
know where the Rams are heading going to Baltimore at
left guard?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
What Sean McVay has said is that, you know, if
Steve practices and plays the way he expects throughout this week,
then he will earn his starting job back. I do
give McVeigh credit for saying that or going with continuity,
I should say in terms of you know, if you
practice what you preach with competition and you know you're
doing what you think is best for the team, then
(06:03):
with the way Dtitch has been playing, then that's that's
what you're sticking with. But you know, at least from
what I've seen in just you know, the the one
viewing period of practice that we've had to this point
as of recording this, like it seemed it seems to be,
you know, trending in that direction. But again, there's still
a couple more practices to go, and like McVeigh said,
(06:25):
it's on you know, Steve to ultimately show.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That I've labeled Detach the bouncer. He looks like a
bouncer and that's how he plays. He just runs people
up out of there. It's so funny. I told people
this before he when I played, I hated guards that
look like him, the short, stocky guys, because low man
wins and he's already down here. It's kind of like
pun a forward playing guard. It's the same thing. It
drives you nuts, it drives everybody nuts. But Steve has girth.
(06:50):
Steve is a big dude. You don't want Steve leaning
on you for four quarters. That's why he's here. So
I'm with you. I'm glad did has played his butt off.
Go the continuity, but it is Thieve's job. Give him
a chance to win it back.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Let's go to defense next. And if I had told
you leaving Sofi Stadium a last Thursday night that Omar
Spates had a high ankle and might be missing some time,
would you believe that? Didn't see any sign of that.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
He played through it, watched every single sign, but I
heard it was you. I was reading you. Oh my god,
Omar Spates is heard. Wait a minute, let me go
back and check the tape, went through all. I think
he had like thirty seven to play thirty eight? Whatever
was every single snap, even his last one. It looks
like Omar Spates. When did he hurt himself? Did he
slip getting off the bus, getting in a car? I
(07:34):
don't know, but yeah, the dude is he's getting better
and he's playing tough. You're not going to be one
hundred percent in the NFL, but what you have to
do is suck it up and give your best to
your teammates, and that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So if we were to crowdsource this one, Shan Doolac
would make his Rams defensive debut in Baltimore next to
Nate Lamman. Is that the direction you think the Rams go?
Or how do they manage this?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Okay? I don't think you were avoid I don't think
the Rams, the coaching staff, the brain trust. I don't
think they're avoiding Troy Reader. That's not what they're that's
they could care less what people think. But if you
base it on preseason how he played, if you're just
going for a straight replacement, Nate Lanman is the mic,
he calls the plays. Omar Spates is the weak sidebacker.
He's the free hitter the week, the whip, so to speak.
(08:19):
Then your direct backup would be fifty six. And that's
exactly how he played. So if he played anything like
he played in the preseason, then there won't be much
drop off. He will be just as active as Omar
Spates getting to the football.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
There's also the option of promoting someone from the practice squad.
We'll see what the rest of this week holds. Sean
McVay has left that door open a couple of times too.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Absolutely, he expressed confidence in Troy Reader and Sean Dolac
as options there, and like you mentioned, he said they've
also got some candidates on the practice squad. But it
was interesting I did go back and read Chris Shule's
comments from August when I asked him, like, you know,
how did essentially like what did Dolac do to make
this team or how to hear and he said, you know,
(09:01):
contribution on special teams, but also like they would have
no hesitation to put him out there on defense if
they really needed to. To this point they haven't. But
that speaks to his readiness and preparedness and his strength
as a possible candidate to go out there if Spates
can't go.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Look the person up for the Ravens and their schematic
probably plays heavily into the Rams. Thinking again, as of
this moment, I think we all agree Lamar is trending
towards not playing week six right, Yes, bye week beyond
for Baltimore. So you could almost get him two weeks
for the price of one. Cooper Rush experienced not great
last week. Maybe they go back to Stoop Puntley. We'll see,
(09:38):
but that's kind of what the Rams are unknowingly preparing
for this week. They do know they'll get Dereck Henry,
and he's slumping a little bit in terms of his production.
And I can't help but believe that has a lot
to do with Lamar's hamstring and the fact that the
best rushing quarterback the league's ever seen has not been
his running mate lately.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh yeah, I think how much easier it is to
defend Derek Henry when you don't have to worry about
Lamar Jackson getting out the back door. All four guys
up front plus the linebackers can just flow to the
ball and go to Derrick Henry. With Lamar Jackson, you
have to dedicate someone or even if it's not your job,
and he pulls that ball out or you think he is,
you have to honor that because he's as fast as
(10:16):
anyone out there. So without him, different back, different scheme,
different offense, same approach like they did last week. Just
make Derrick Henry choke it down in the backfield. Don't
let him get ahead of steam, because if he does,
he's the juggernaut. But if you make him choke it down,
that's a big target, even for a guy as I
wouldn't say as small as do like, he's not the
biggest guy in the world, but Derek Henry's bigger than most.
(10:38):
So if you make him choke it down, you have
a bigger target to hit.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
When Lamar's out there, it changes the math, especially in
the box, and that's what and that his threat as
a runner is in a lot of ways, what kind
of what you're talking about impacts the ability for defense
is to decide whether they have to commit to one
or the other. And so I think probably you'd probably
agree with this based on what you've seen on tape,
But I would imagine that they've been able to commit
(11:01):
more defenders to the box without the threat of Lamar
there when he hasn't been out there, and that's made
a little bit more difficult to see Dereck Henry to
get going, not.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Just run arm two. Lamar's accurate, so if you're that
backside safety, you may leave that guy one on one
with the corner and go attack Derrick Henry. That's what's
been happening that I wouldn't expect that to change this
week now.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Going back to last year, between the two Saquon games,
the Rams defense was already improving at shutting down opponents
running attack. But I think year of a year of growth.
I mean, it's been a dream storyline. You look at
the gauntlet that they're running between Saquon Barkley and Jonathan
Taylor and Christian McCaffrey. Can they keep it up against
the Ravens?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I think so, especially when you I just like the
depth you have in the middle at defensive tackle. And
I sound like a broken record, but Kobe Turner, you
can pair him with Poona, you can pair him with
Tyler Davis, you can pair him with Braden Fist. There's
so many different fronts you can throw out and keep
guys fresh. Plus your edge guys are playing like gangbusters.
Byron Young is playing at a pro bowler. Jared Vers
(11:57):
picked up right where he left off, and there's a
new guy in town and Josiah Stewart who looks like
he's been here ten years. So you have a lot
of depth, you have a lot of wheels. You're very young,
and they're playing great. They're playing technically sound up front,
they're going through blockers, they're defeating people. They're not just
running around jumping up field. That carries that travels. There's
(12:18):
a reason they have slowed down and basically stopped three
of the best backs in the league in a row.
And now it's Derrick Henry's turn. So I think that
will travel to.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Baltimore absolutely, And I think too it speaks to the
interchangeability of that group as well. That was something that
Kobe Turner talked a lot about in terms of just
that top four on the along the defensive line in
training camp, just with all the things that would allow
them to do, especially Tyler Davis in the role he
was going to have. And that's something that's shown up
to me as well, especially against the run.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And by the way, I see you, Kobe, when you're
trying to politic for a sack, you know that was
buyer out there. First, get your name of the paper.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, don't know. Did you guys check the forecast? Yet,
always always a fool's errand to predict weather or to
talk about it on a Thursday before a Sunday game.
But it looks like the conditions will be reminiscent of
our twenty twenty three trip to the Inner Harbor, if
not identical, DeMarco.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
If you're going on the road to the AFC's North
expect bad weather, right, So, like I said, one of
you guys has taken my rain shoes. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Pooka gonna wear gloves, are gonna tape up the fingers.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Dude, he is Look it's too late. He is a superstar.
Puka Nakua is a bona fide superstar in the National
Football League. You know him, you cheer for him, and
he gives it to you on game day. He's a
physical receiver. He is your number one right now. When
Matthew Stafford drops back, his first read is him, and
(13:41):
then based off that, I'll go other places. But Puka
is the guy you jammed the ball to, and I
think he's more than earn that.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I think he's also the most improved ram maybe the
most improved player in the league, which is hard to
say it because he set such a high bar as
a rookie and then, despite missing some time last year,
should have been an All Pro again in year two
because he was that much dramatically better. But you can
measure in all sorts of ways, catch rate, lack of drops,
catch transition yards after catch, getting in the end zone
these last couple of games, because he was so good
(14:10):
so early, I think we rob him of his respect
with the work he's done, the lonely quiet off field
work to get better in year three and really to
join that upper echelon.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
As complete of a receiver as there is in the
NFL right now, maybe the most complete, I would argue,
just in terms of run blocking when they put the
ball in his hands on some of those sweeps, you
know what he's asked to do obviously in the past game,
and just all the different routes he can run. Like,
to me, he's making a strong case early on for
our Offensive Player of the Year. I mean, there are
obviously many other players who were in that conversation too,
(14:44):
and that's not to discredit them, but just from from
what I've seen, you know, these these first five weeks,
like it's it's hard. It's hard to put anyone above
him right now in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And related, I think part of what's been so infuriating
about the Rams two loss so far is not just
their self inflicted nature, but coloring our thinking with the
fact that we know the Rams have the best quarterback
in the NFC right now. The five games he's played
so far have been MVP worthy, and so it's it's
so aggravating to not be five and zero when he's
(15:16):
putting these types of games together.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
This is crazy for me. Okay, So Stafford is on
a heater, right, Stafford is at the top, he's top
three and yards and all this stuff. But I actually
think he could play better. I do say more. I
think there's there's there's more there for him. You we
still haven't. They haven't really figured out this DeVante Adams thing.
(15:38):
When that starts to click, there's a whole nother level there. Uh,
there's still moments in games where the offense just kind
of goes stagnant for a while and he'll miss. Then
he'll make it up and finish like gangbusters. Like I said,
So there's he's playing great, and he's the best quarterback
in the NFC, no doubt. I'm right there with you.
But I think he can actually play better than what
he's playing. I really do. And when that starts to happen,
(16:01):
that's when things start to roll.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You're right, DeVante Adams, despite all the good he's done
through five games, is and during the lowest catch rate
of his career. So you think that's going to progress
to the mean over time, more time on task. If
Stafford's running backs hang on the football a little bit better,
his numbers are certainly better if and when they get
more out of their tight end room, including Terence Ferguson,
who caught his first pass as a pro.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What's that mean? That means bingo.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
More isn't always better, right, Like having more options is
not always going to translate to bigger stats. But I
think it will continue to mean good things for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Like you're saying, yes, I think he's all the way back,
no pun intended. Okay, try the.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Way to pay that off. I don't think Tell me
if you disagree. I don't think the Rams overlooked the
Niners last week, do you know?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think the Niners played good ball.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
They were they were slow stars on defense, They were
not ready for primetime on defense those first couple possessions.
They were able to tighten the screws from there. But
I don't think it was for lack of respect. If
for some reason it was message received, they won't do
it again this week against the depleted Baltimore group, right.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I hope not. I'm with you. I thought San Francisco
played better than most people thought. Mac Jones played better
than most people thought. And we said this leading into
the week when we were talking about their injury report.
Christian McCaffrey is good enough to beat you by himself,
so you have to respect that. As long as he's
out there, there's still a legit threat. But yeah, I'll
give you that. The Rams defense kind of they woke
(17:32):
up late, but once they did, they they were great.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
They were punishing, they were absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Punishing, and they gave you a shot to win the game.
So if you start the game the way you finished it, absolutely,
if you hold onto the rock, it's a w. So
let's hope that all that stuff you left it here
in so far?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Am I misremembering? Or was Baltimore like the favorite to
win not just the division but maybe a ring this summer?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They had built maybe the best roster in football, and
I know it's depleted. What was it, six guys with
all Pro honors and on defense, tens of millions of
dollars in active last.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Week, crazy amount of Pro Bowls and cap space absent.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
But if any opponent should recognize and respect what a
one in four team with a championship roster and aspirations
is capable of in any given moment. It's a Los
Angeles Rams. They were just in these cleats a year
ago and look what the Rams were able to do.
So let this not be the week for Baltimore's comeback.
I guess to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I don't think Harbaugh is giving up. Do you know?
I don't think Baltimore is gonna give up. I think
they're gonna keep fighting. Mark Andrews isn't going to forget
how to play football, and Dereck Henry isn't gonna shrink
just because they're one and four. If anything, they're going
to be better. So yeah, it doesn't matter who's out there,
you have to play your best game.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
It's like Sean McVay said, that's a prideful team led
by a prideful head coach. Like there's no way they
let that pass.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
But what's the feeling when you see a team like
Houston who you beat, and you know the state that
the Texans offense started the year and if not is
in currently put up like a record number of points
at M and T Banks Stadium. You know the state
of this defense. Baltimore used to be the best defense
in the league for multiple years now they're the consensus worst.
You walk in there feeling like you should score forty.
(19:07):
But that's a dangerous place to be. That's tough to
sleep on.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
It is. I feel good about my chances, don't you.
I mean, if you beat a team that just you know,
kick the you know what out of them, you feel
good about your chances.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But that's not how this game works.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You have to boil it down. You have to play
our best game, and we have to bring it to
Baltimore first. And then if they do, sure, yeah, I
agree with you. If you beat them, then you should
beat them as bad. But it doesn't work that way
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then the Ram's gonna stay in Baltimore practice at
Camden Yards, I read and get their work in for
London and Jacksonville beyond. We mentioned this earlier, but it
might be worth visiting a little bit more closely.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Here.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
All four NFC West teams on the road San Francisco
at Tampa Bay, Seattle at Jacksonville, Arizona at Indy. The
Rams competition Roade Dogs this week.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I'm a big Baker fan. I'm even more a Baker fan,
right now take it to them who Seattle have again.
Jacksonville Jacksonville, Man, look, Jacksonville is no joke. Jacksonville might
be for real. Way to go, Liam Cohen, Yes, sir,
so yeah, I hope uh that the rest of the
West gets beat up and we come out of Baltimore
with the only win in the division this weekend. That'd
(20:14):
be nice.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Are there closing thoughts keys of victory, anything that we
didn't get to that you want to make sure that
you get out.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Uh just remember, man, I mean like Kyron Williams is
one of your best players, period, end of story. And
if we could fix it, if he could fix it,
if they could fix it, they would. But there's no
way he's not gonna take another Like, you can't bench
the guy. He's one. He's your starting tailback. You're gonna
have to give him carries. He's gonna have to be better.
I think he knows that. But just the one thing
(20:41):
is you've got to fix what's ailing you in the
third phase in the kicking game. That should be the
first thing that was fixed. So maybe that's gone on
a little bit too long. So we'll see. Hopefully that
gets fixed in Baltimore. That's always tricky down there, especially
on special teams. So we'll see. It's a great test.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You remember how uh Sean may Fake called the first
drive of the last trip to Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Pow right down the middle. Yes, gut punch, gut punch,
gut punch. Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I wonder if they don't run it back this week.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Like to see a replay? Why not? Interesting?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I think too, that would go a long way with
avoiding some of the self inflicted mistakes that cost them
last week and being able to control the time of
possession better. That's something that you know, I'm looking forward
to seeing how it plays out this week. I think
the way the forty nine ers controlled the time possession
last week had a lot to do with making the
margins so thin in terms of again some of those
(21:29):
you know, instances where there were those self inflicted mistakes,
and so you avoid those and you do a better
job of controlling time and possession, I think you can
you reach the potential of like you were talking about,
a game like the Texans had last week against Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
You know, it's interesting that you called back to that
that time of possession, which I'm of the mind that
typically it's an overrated football stat. But when you're playing
San Francisco, we've seen that before. We know how consequential
that is. And I almost take consolation from that. And
I'm optimistic that the Rams could have and should have
won that game even though it started the way it did,
because there were previous iterations of this team and of
(22:06):
that rivalry. Where you start a game like that against
Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco, it's over. You're onto the
next week.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Free score loss. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
That that's not how Thursday Night football went. It didn't
finish the way we would have liked, but that's an
interesting callback by used to. I'm gonna feel better about that.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
For senior staff writers Stu Jackson, who may or may
not have made his first appearance this season, check We'll
check Pro Football Reference. But either way, come back soon
and come back off. And yes, the Marco far who's
here every week. I'm JB. Long, Wishing you a good
rest of your week, looking forward to back to back
road trips, first of Baltimore, then to London. We'll talk
to you next time between the Horns because then by
your Southern California Toyta dealers
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders takes you back to 1983, when two teenagers were found murdered, execution-style, on a quiet Texas hill. What followed was decades of rumors, false leads, and a case that law enforcement could never seem to close. Now, veteran investigative journalist M. William Phelps reopens the file — uncovering new witnesses, hidden evidence, and a shocking web of deaths that may all be connected. Over nine gripping episodes, Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders unravels a story 42 years in the making… and asks the question: who’s really been hiding the truth?
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com