Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/17 I Giants vs Packers Review

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino review yesterday’s game against the Packers, talk about the defense, and take calls from fans. 

0:00 - Packers Review

24:22 - Calls

39:26 - The Coaching Search

44:00 - Abdul Carter

50:38 - Elijah Chatman

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
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Speaker 3 (00:24):
Going Hello, everybody, Welcome to Big Blue Kickoff live on
this Monday afternoon. Paul Datino, John Schmulk with you. It's
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podcast studio. Keep getting better, Hello everybody, Giants Avenue coach.
Yet the game looks exactly the same. They fall to

(00:45):
the Green Bay Packers twenty seven to twenty. They get
a fourth quarter lead in this game, the defense gives up,
the drive, offense comes down, Jamis Winson throws an interception
in the end zone, and Paul in another competitive game
against the team that we think is going to make
the postseason. The Giants have a lead in the fourth quarter,
but they cannot close things out.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, not just have a lead in the fourth but
actually regain the lead in the fourth. I mean, and
that's what even makes the gut punch more painful, is
that you did come back regain the lead. Think you're like, okay, wow,
we climbed that emotional mountain, and then suddenly you fall
back into the kick into the cavern again.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's funny you look at some of the numbers and
you know, they only had two hundred ninety six yards
of offensive, the Packers, But then you think a little
bit deeper. They only had seven possessions and they scored
touchdowns on four of those seven possession.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
They dropped four or five wide open passes.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
To that too. So while the numbers look okay, it
was five point eight yards per play, I think for
the Packers, again not a great number, but not good enough. Again,
and when you get a lead late, they were not
able to get a stop when it mattered. And Paul,
we can break down some individual plays in this game,
and we can certainly do that. I thought the Giants
had opportunities to get off the field late in the game,

(01:56):
and you know, they rushed five guys on that big third,
and Burns got chipped, Dexter got doubled. You had one
on ones for Darius Alexander Abdail, Carter, and Demetrius flying
in fouls. They all didn't not just get to the quarterback,
but got completely stoned and allowed Love to sit back

(02:18):
there and hold it and hold it. And then Cordell Floatt,
who's the Giant's best quarterback right now, is one on
one with a rookie, granted a rookie that outweighs him
by about thirty pounds and is about three inches tall
than him, but still a rookie, and he was unable
to make a play on a contested catch. And it
kind of to me summarized what we've seen with this

(02:40):
defense and a lot of these games late. Guys are
in position where they can make plays, and whether it's
upfront with the pass rush, which is supposed to be
the strength of his defense, or in the back end,
not enough guys are making plays when they're in a
situation at a position to make those plays.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Both key passes on the disc ice of touchdown drive
the first one you just mentioned and on the second
one when Brian Burns is coming on the pass rush
and is about zero point two seconds too late and
the pass goes to Watson in the right corner, and
Black is all over him, gets his head right in there,

(03:21):
and Watson makes the above the x'es and the o's catch.
He wins the fifty to fifty ball. And think about it, folks,
I just said to Johnny Mack and john right before
the show, the Packers win two fifty to fifty balls
on the game winning drive. If the Giants just win
one of the two fifty to fifty balls, there's a

(03:44):
real shot that they win the game.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, Watson was a first down throw right in the
corner of the end zone. Yeah, but it's a touchdown,
I understand, but they still three downs to try to
they do. But who knows, no, who knows exactly right.
So I'm gonna take this into now a larger conversation
because I'm sure we're gonna get calls about the defense
and Shane Bowen, we got him on the post game

(04:08):
show yesterday, so I want to kind of preempt that
and have a discussion about it. So the way I
look at this, Paul, the way the Giants run this defense,
I thought Tiki Barber last yesterday in the postgame show.
You can go check it out on the Giants Media
Pass podcast feed. They've always put the post game up
on there, and Tiki's awesome. You should tune in just

(04:29):
to hear his analysis. Don't worry about what I say
and what Paul and Bob says. Just listen to Tiki.
He's great. And you know, we've got a lot of
calls about complaints about Bowen and how he does things
and all that stuff, and I've generally pushed back against
it because I don't see anything obviously wrong with with
with what he's doing. And Tiki, I thought, made a
really good case last night for one thing that I
think is a fair criticism. Bowen does blitz all right,

(04:53):
it's at the top of the league. Blitz right, No,
but it's around twentieth in the league something like that,
and there were yesterday he was forty five percent. We's
right in that game. But he says, look, they're mostly
five man pressures and is usually just a linebacker over
the center, and you don't see a lot of exotic
stuff with the pressure. And that's fair. And if that's

(05:14):
the criticism, I'll buy that. I think that's a fair criticism.
You don't. I looked it up. They're five man pressure
rateers near the top of the league, which means they
don't often bring six or seven and their corner and
slock corner blitz rates are near the bottom of the
league rare. They rarely bring Mary down and I think
that's fair as a criticism. However, Paul, I want to

(05:40):
I was thinking back because I was thinking about this
a lot last night as I watched the Lions being
unable to score against the Eagles, who I think might
have the best defense at football. By the way, their
defense is just playing on another level in Philadelphia. It's
a real dichotic. Last two weeks they are, yeah, well,
and what they did to the Giants in their last
game against them, they did a really good job in
that game as well. But when Bowen got here, I

(06:04):
was thinking back when we first did the shows and
we talked about Bowen's defense, Right, how did we talk
about Bowen's defense. We talked about it as a defense.
And please correct me if I'm wrong about this. If
I'm remembering it wrong, let say no, and I generally
you would get four man pressures with a lot of
wide rushers on the edge. You would play a lot

(06:26):
of bend but don't break zone behind it, right, and
with those individual rushers, you would try to get home
with four guys, And that's how we discussed the defense
when he came here. Correct, Okay, for the most part,
do you think it's fair to say? I think maybe
he plays a little bit more man to man than

(06:47):
he thought he would when he came here. I thought
maybe it would be a little heavy. He said, they're
about the second or third highest man to man rate
in the league. I think that's probably a little bit
heavier than I thought we thought it would be when
he got here.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I'd agree with that.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
But other than that, I think, for the most part,
this defense is run and it looks like I thought
it was going to look in terms of schematics when
they hired him. I think he's generally been true to
what he was before he got here. You think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
In a lot of ways. Yes, yes, in a lot
of ways. Yes.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
How do you think he has n't been besides the
Mandamanton Well, I come, I come.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
More from the Belichicken Spagnolo school of thought, and I
am more into sending a corner blitzend in the safety.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
But no, I get and again, if if that's the criticism,
I think that's fair. But we didn't see him do
that a ton No, no, no at that point.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh yeah, If you're saying he's been true to himself
and his style, I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
So if and this is where I'm going, if you're
going to hire him as your defensive coordinator, that's what
you have to know that you're getting.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right, that's what's advertised.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
You don't hire Shane Bowen to start blitzing all over
the place and being aggressed of the blitzes, right, that's
not why you make that higher.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
I agree, right, I agree?

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Okay, So is that an excuse to say, if things
aren't working, should you not change things and do other
things to try to create pressure and all that stuff? Sure,
but now let's talk about how this Giants defense was built, Paul,
was this Giants defense built to blitz extra guys and
put the onus on the secondary, especially with paulson Adebo

(08:26):
not out there to play one on one and get
put out on islands? Is that how this was designed?

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I see your point.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
However, it was designed so that's your front takes care
of business, takes care of business, and you give your
secondary little extra help, just leaving guys in coverage. So Again,
that's not to say things can't be done better, but
I think the way Bone's always done it and the
way the personnel was designed with the defense, this is

(08:53):
what it was supposed to be, and I think we
saw it, and I need to drop your pal. I'm sorry,
but but I follow where you're going about this, and
I want to make this point. I do think it is.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Important to mention, though, that there have been some significant
injuries in the back seven that also make you have
to do some significant tweaking on occasion, and I agree
with that, and I don't necessarily think we have seen
as much of that as I would have liked.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Okay, but I'm not sure the tweak would be to
bring extra pressure and put more pressure on those guys
to cover one on one. No, okay, I agree with
that too, so and I think the formula can work.
You look at some of the best defenses in the league,
like the Seattle Seahawks. They have a bottom two blichery
in the National Football I know they never blitz. They
one of the best defenses in football, right they do.

(09:40):
And I think if you look and I think this
is a fair drive to look at because it mirrors
end of game situations. The last drive of the first
half of the Green Bay Packers. All right, they get
the ball with a minute of five seconds to go
on one timeout. They're trying to score on that drive. Okay.
The first player that drive in a f ten. They

(10:01):
complete a ten yard past to Romeo Dubbs, but Abdul
Carter wins quick inside and puts Love right on his keystart. Okay,
so but you know what you rush four, you get pressure,
the quarterback gets Hitdy completes a pass. Tip your cap, Yes,
that's fine, that's what you want. Yes, Next play, Jordan
Love incomplete plast the Dubs Dexter Lawrence gets a one

(10:24):
on one on that pushes this guy right into the backfield.
Love throws off his back feet. They throw an ink cut.
Deontay Banks plays good coverage. It's incomplete.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, everybody did their job on that play.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Again, absolutely, four man rush. Yeah, that's how it's designed.
Next play, all right, you have a play where this
is the pass to musk Grave and it should I
think that's probably could have been a fumble, whatever the
case might be. It gets called incomplete. All right. Then
you get to third and ten. Guess what you rush four,

(10:58):
you play cover one safety in the middle of the field,
and you can do that. Why because you're only rushing
four guys you have another safety deep good defense. No
one is open. Even though Dex is doubled, Burns is chipped.
You eventually get there. You sack Jordan Love. That's what
it's supposed to look like. Yes, well, why did it
look that way? Because the guys up front got to

(11:21):
the quarterback because they won. Because they won.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
I won't dispute that.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
But in the fourth quarters of these games, you're not
seeing that formula work. No, I don't know if the
guys up front are gassed and they can't do it.
And by the way, the coverage in this series was
very good. Jordan Love was forced to hold the ball
on that third and ten because nobody was open. You're
not getting the coverage you need in the second half

(11:47):
and in the fourth quarters of these games, either on
the back end. So I see it work at the
end of the second quarter, but it's not working in
the fourth quarter. And again, this is not to say
that you can This is not just on the players, folks.
The coaches can do stuff too to help. I'm not
saying they can't though, I won't bring it back. There
was a play in this game where Bowen does bring
a cornerback blitz and I gotta find the play. It

(12:09):
was a where's it? I wrote down all the third downs?
It was on a third down here, let's see can
I find it? I do not see it here, But
there was a play where they brought a corner blitz
off the left side. It gets picked up and they're
unable and they end up completing a deep pass down

(12:30):
the field. I'll try to find the play. I did
have it noted here somewhere, But like on the one
time they did try to bring in a corner, and
they brought corners on two different times in this game,
they were not able to it gets picked up, they
go complete a pass down the field. So it's just look,
I'm not telling you have an answer, folks. And then
for the people that want to make a change, I
understand the results are not good enough. And if that's

(12:50):
why you want to do you think you make a change,
you get it, spark try some new things. Things can work. Fine,
I get it. I understand where you're coming from. But
I know what the formula is supposed to be. I
can see it work. I can see why it would work,
but it's just not working. And if the argument is, look,
if the formula is not working with these players, you
have to try a new formula. I get that. I
understand that, and I'm not even gonna argue with you

(13:11):
on that. That's fine, but it's just frustrating to me
because I see why they're doing what they're doing, and
I see why it should work, but it's just not working. Okay, anyway,
that's my spiel. I apologize for going along.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
It's okay. I'm gonna push back a little bit, please,
just a little no push back.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I want you to pull then, that's how I want
you to push back on me.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Please. Concept. I agree with what you said in concept
in terms of the way that series went down. But
if you look at the last four years here, and
I did see a chart that I misplaced the chart
a few weeks ago because basically I just decided it
wasn't worth keeping anymore and I just let it go

(13:51):
in the final two minutes of the first half or
the second half. The Giants have been one of the
most porous defenses for the last several years. Okay, they
have been absolutely decimated, sliced like a prime rib over
the course of the final two minutes of the first
half and of the fourth quarter. So unfortunately the example

(14:12):
that you have this game, which philosophically, I understand exactly
where you're going, and I don't have a problem in
concept with what you just said, except for the fact
that just happens to come with the final two minutes
of the first half, which habitually has been a horrific
portion of the game for the Giants.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
And I agree with pe Paple. I'm not saying that
has been good all year. I'm not saying that. So
I'm so I was being very specific. Again, I was
just giving one example from where I saw the formula work.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
So please, we're not We're not disputing each other. We're
actually making two separate points.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Well this is good. I like this.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
We're actually making two separate points.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
And by the way, I think you're right about that.
I'm not. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. And
and see, that's one of the things that has really
troubled me, to be frank with you, is that you know,
you get these teams in these two minute drives or
these two minute drills, if you will, two minute offense,
and those are the drives more so than not, that have.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Become the most frustrating for me when I watch this
defense now, I have often felt, and how do you
trace the crux of this problem? I have often felt,
especially when I've been down behind the bench, that the
front was gassed. I've often felt that in the last

(15:37):
several years. That's not a great excuse. It can be
a reason, but it's not a great excuse.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
It's a reason, but not an excuse. That's correct.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And that's not good.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
No, it's not. It's not.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
And we've talked about how Philadelphia rotates their defensive front
so often because it allows their higher efficiency numbers to
come to fruition. Because guys aren't gassed, Guys are getting
proper rest, Guys are able to deal with less stressful
situations or should I say, more stressful situations because they've

(16:12):
got the rotation going. So the Giants what do they do?
You know, they get the extra bodies up front, They
signed Robertson Harris, They go and draft Abdul Carter. You know,
they went and they acquired Burns. They went and they
drafted Thibodeaux.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
And they sign Chauncey golstenho by the way, he's barely
played Visa.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Evert and that has been I gotta be honest with you,
the two biggest things in my mind to this defense.
Michael McFadden Chauncey Golston, both of those guys from me
have been dramatic losses to this defense. And again, folks,
that is not an excuse, but I expected McFadden to
have one hundred plus tackles like he did last year

(16:51):
and to play pretty well against the run. I expected
Golston would help that defensive front to become more multiple
and to give them a lot of uh if not sacks. Okay,
I certainly expected pressure in the pocket and passes to
get knocked down because that's what John C. Golston does.

(17:12):
So my take on this, John is ultimately they've acquired
more bodies to that front seven to the point where
we were very impressed a training camp, and the same
things are still happening.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And by the way, I will say this two Paul,
the guys aren't playing too many plays like you you
look at the snap rates, and by the way, the
reason Thibodeau's isn't a little bit higher. Is because he
didn't play in this game obviously, right, right, But Brian
Bird is at seventy eight percent. Right. He never looks gas,
by the way, never, so don't put him in that
nev category. Abdul Carter's at seventy percent and Kevon's at

(17:47):
seventy one percent. I mean, that's that's a fair that's
not too many snaps. And that's the Lawrences at sixty
nine percent.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
By the way, we talked about this when everyone said,
how are they gonna use Carter? And we said, between
the two guys and how you split it up and
play them all three at once, they'll come in around seventy.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
We kind of expected that exactly what we said before that.
I wrote a whole story on giants dot Com. We
talked about this, right, So in that regard, it's come
out like like it was planned. Now here's the one
thing that I will say, And I don't know, maybe
it's psychological. I don't know if it is or not, John,
I do believe that it is part of it. I've

(18:25):
said this.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
To you several times in the last few years, and
I haven't really said it this year. This team is
just so unclutch. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
I don't think. I mean, they don't in the must
have it situation, they don't. They don't have it, That's it.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
They just don't. And there were too many other times
where I've seen them in non clutch situations do exactly
what was planned, do exactly what they're capable of and
what they're supposed to do, and then when they have
to have it, you got it, they don't unclutch. Is
that a psychological thing now, even more so than fatigue

(19:09):
or scheme? Is it simply now that mentally this group
just doesn't have the mental fortitude to be tough enough
to overcome whatever fears they may have because it's happened
to them so often.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
I don't know. It's a good question. I don't know
the answer to that either.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think Black is there, Flat's there.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
I mean, I'm not gonna kill Corey Black. I don't
want to kill those guys around. But my point is
those guys were there to make the play both times.
They were right.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Where they needed to be. Will Allen, I've talked about
him before in this show, and I got along great
with Will Allen. Former Syracuse corner, first round draft pick,
played here for like eight years or whatever it was.
He was always in position to me the play. He
was always there. The hand was in the DB's the
wide receiver's face, the hand was in his chest.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
It was always there. I forget what year was it.
Never he would never intercept the ball. I was either
in high school or I was in early college years
when it was Will Allen and Will Peterson with the
two corners, Yes, the two well, and they had like
eight dropped interceptions in a year or something like that.
What year was it was that, like ninety nine.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Or two thousand, Yeah, probably ninety eight, ninety something like that,
late late in late nineties.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
You remember the year I'm talking about though, right, Oh, absolutely,
And they just couldn't catch the damn ball.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Because I have never seen a pair of corners like
Will Peterson and Will Allen who played so well, was
so gifted, and then not only would they not intercept
the ball, there would be times you'd say, how would
the world did the.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Receiver catch that he had it?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
And they still gave up the reception?

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Right? Anyway?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Again, unclose much. I don't know, folks. You could talk
about this as long as you like. I just wonder
if psychologically some of these guys are a little damaged.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
A couple of things on this game real quick, and
then we'll get to your calls. I thought the offense
line did a pretty good job, especially running the ball
in the second half. A lot of downhill stuff. How
much how much fullback stuff did he get in the
second half with Bellinger as the full back, we got
a lot of that. We got a lot of too
tight end stuff again, Tyrone Tracy, I thought ran the
ball better than he has all the year round. Two
weeks in a row he has run the ball very well,
So I think you tip your cap to him. He

(21:28):
did a good job. Isaia Hodgens, Where have you been?
Isaiah Hodgens? Welcome back. My friend comes in, makes a
couple of a couple of nice plays. It was one
ball I thought he could have caught on the final drive,
but I think the defender got his hand in there.
It was a tough catch. I'm not gonna kill him
on that, but it was good to have him back,
and he was. He ran those little dig routes and
crosses over the middle like a big receiver should use

(21:50):
his frame and he made some nice plays in that game.
So good to have his A Dgens.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Back man, think about it, he walked into the building
on Thursday, I have no idea, and Kavko also made
note and he's right. Hodgens used his frame to help
block him downfield too, to make sure that he was
keeping an extra guy from that extra level from getting
involved in the tackle. Hodgens played very fundamentally sound football,

(22:16):
and to be frank, how many games do you recall
praising him for since the twenty twenty two season, because
in twenty three and twenty four, to be fair, folks,
he was pretty invisible and he didn't play.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
A ton either. Isn't he inactive of a lot of
those games?

Speaker 2 (22:32):
And then when he did play, there wasn't much there,
but he looked like the twenty two Hodgens all of
a sudden, Yeah, I thought he did too.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
So those are the main guys I wanted to kind of,
you know, got to bring up in these games that
I thought did a good job and anything else you
want to point that before we get to the calls.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, I did like seeing Chapman in there on the
goal line as the full back in the goal line offense.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Now, by the way he ran, how about him getting mad?
What he put He pushes the quarterback outside and that
Singletary didn't cut behind him, and he turns out. He goesh,
could it Sidne? What he didn't know was that kway
Walker was right off Terry and if Secretary cuts that inside,
it's gonna be like a three yard lost. I just
thought it was funny. He turns around, He's like, poor thing, No,
you're supposed to run over there. He got revenge on

(23:13):
the second play. It wasn't a great block, but sure
got enough. He got enough, got enough, god enough to
score the touchdown. Yes, he did anything else. No, I
was actually pretty impressed how Cooper held up against that block.
A winebacker. Capman's a big guy coming at you.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
He's a very big guy anyway, which is why you.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Only have to get enough two one nine three nine
four five one three two one nine three nine four
five one three. Let's go to Donnie and Queen's he
will lead us off today. Donnie, what's going on?

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Oh right, guys, we're good.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
I haven't been called as much this season because, you know, frankly,
other than betting frustration, I really haven't had much value
to add to the show, so I figured I'd better
sitting back and listening.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
But well, I'm a being forward to the value today, Donnie.
What do you got?

Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yeah, So something happened yesterday that I thought it was
kind of a stark contrast in winning organizations and losing organizations.
And if you look up North into Buffalo, how they
handled their situation with Keon Coleman yesterday, it was bench
I believe, for I believe he was late to a
meeting or something to that effect. And then even after

(24:24):
the game, one of the players on the team's Dawkins
for left tackle, stood at his locker addressed the situation
and kind of made it known that this is not
acceptable here. And then you look at the Giants who
had their own issue with abdua Cardy yesterday, who likely
should not have played yesterday, should have not gotten a jersey.

(24:46):
But then even in the locker room after the game,
Dexter Lawrence felt no need to address it with Abduall
Brian Burns didn't think it.

Speaker 6 (24:55):
Was a big deal.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
And this has been a continued trend.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
I know, John Donne, Donnie hold On, you know, I
need to correct facts when they are presented incorrectly. Brian
Burns did address it, he just did not talk about
it with the media. Please be very careful when you
try to make a statement that is erroneous, because that's
not flying past that's not flying past me. What did

(25:19):
he say about the ball? Burns would not answer the
media question about it. He said that he had addressed it,
and he said, would you.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Oh no, I think do The point is that he
was he didn't address it publicly. I think that's okay.
I'm sorry. I thought you said he did not address
it to Carter.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I'm sorry, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
To me, my take from Brian Burns was, and this
is a general quote, it was no big thing that
needed a big talk. That was what he said. And
yes he said he had spoken to Abdul about it,
but it was no big thing that didn't need a
big talk or a big sit down.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
That's because the guy who was asking him was trying
to blow it up and turn it into a stick
of dynamite. Burns is very good, very good at downplaying distractions.
That's what he does as a leader and as a pro.
I have great respect for Brian Burgs, and I think
he handled the Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
And Donnie, and I think too. I don't know how
Kean Coleman handled that internally versus Carter either. I understand
what you're saying. I think it is good and important
that whatever Carter did do incorrectly, that they did Benjamin
for that series, and you know you show there has
to be accountability there. I don't know what Carter did.
I don't know what if it was he late for something,
what he did.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
I don't really that he missed a team meeting.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Oh, I didn't see that this morning. I'm sorry for Donnie.
I was I didn't see that.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
I do confirmed himself on Twitter that he did miss
the meeting. The report was that he slept through it.
He said he was getting treatment. This is just all
happened within the last half hour on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Okay, got it, Donnie. Honestly, I was struggling to get
through all the tape today and I have not been
on social media. I apologize.

Speaker 7 (26:54):
Yeah, And my.

Speaker 5 (26:55):
Larger point was going to be that this has been
an issue now dating back to Odell, who did countless
things that deserved discipline, and that these are not accepting.
We had me and you, John had this conversation last
year about Fiona Banks, right, it was like, when are
they going to sit, you know, sit this guy down,

(27:16):
take his jersey from him. Certain things cannot be tolerated,
and these things are continuing to happen. And Paul, you know,
it's an opinionated matter, and certainly, you know, maybe you
prefer things to be handled behind closed doors.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
You know.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
The Buffalo bill certainly didn't seem to think that, and
they put their player on blast. And I feel like
the Giants have allowed this culture of things being way
too easy for their players. You know, there there's more
reports now if you want to say they're not true.
I think Dan Doug is a good reporter that not
only did he miss the walkthrough, he has been late

(27:51):
consistently throughout the season, and that they won't giving it
a pass.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Here's the problem. Don't you finish up?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Stay here, stay here, don't go anywhere. Okay, Well, you
know during the two thousand and seven season, Plexico Burris
was late for team meetings and miss team meetings every
single week of their Super Bowl season. Tom Coughlin would
always find him and discipline him the entire year and
never announced it until.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Later on in the year.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Tom got a little ruffled, and oh yeah, I got
to deal with Plexico and okay, and then a couple
of weeks came out that he was fined a couple
of times. It happened virtually every single week of the
Super Bowl winning season.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
But you didn't hear about it. No, no, no, no,
hold on, you did not hear about it. You did
not hear about it from the coach or from the
players in the locker room. They didn't publicly rip this guy.
They didn't publicly expose or embarrass this as. We also
don't know if that's what happened with the fines and
stuff internally in this situation. I don't know that. No,

(28:58):
we don't know that. I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
So I don't want to speak to what I don't know,
but I speak to what I know to be true, Donnie.
And unfortunately, okay, unfortunately to what you're saying. I just
gave you a case, and according to your opinion, you would.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Have disapproved of Tom coffin handling of Mexico team winning.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
Okayer, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
But winning, but winning should not matter. If it's a
principle that you're trying to profess, then winning or losing
should not matter. Okay, So now you want to you
want to rip Tom Cofflin. Do you want to do
you want to rip Tom Coughlin? They want to do
that now.

Speaker 5 (29:39):
Is not a perfect coach. He's a great coach in
that persistence. He should have suspended and stop that in
the beginning.

Speaker 6 (29:47):
That's what he should have done. They won in spite
of it.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
They won in spite of it, Okay. And this has
been going on now for the Giants for years.

Speaker 6 (29:54):
So if I hear you.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
Correctly, you're saying that no matter what happens, whatever these
players do, keep it quiet, don't suspend them. Maybe take
a few bucks away. I totally disagree, and I could
be wrong, but to me, it's now Ben Buris Deontay
bangs Eli Apple who famously once told the reporters he
had to go use the toilet to clean it up

(30:17):
and make it a little more safer for the airwaves here,
and now I have Duel Carter who is literally bantering
back and forth with fans on Twitter about his suspension
while you guys are on the air. So this is
the kind of crap that has been going on now
for eight decade of losing so yes, they can continue
to look the other way and do all these things.
But the good team that I brought up today, the

(30:39):
Buffalo Bills, handled it exactly the opposite way. And I
will go with anything the Giants are doing right now,
I would do the complete opposite, Like the episode of
Seinfeld with George. Everything they do is wrong. So I
will hang up. But again, this type of crap where
nobody wants to point a finger, No one wants to

(30:59):
stand up and say this is unacceptable. That doesn't mean
every player should have to do it. Somebody there should
be saying, you know what, I have to do a card.
It's not just a little small thing that you missed
a meeting. It's not just small thing that you missed
the walk through.

Speaker 7 (31:13):
These are serious things.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
And this is an underperforming rookie okay, that came in
with a bunch of hype. Why did Lawrence Taylor's number? Well,
I guess he really wants to emulate Lawrence and not
show up for meetings as well.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Thank you, thank you, Donnie, appreciate the call. Look, I
will say this, I'm lit, guys, literally, I was not
looking at social media this morning. So this is the
first time I'm seeing all this. Donnie's concept is correct
in that you can't just have guys willy nilly, And again,
I'm not saying that's what's happened to her. I'm not
confirming that report. I'm just speaking theoretically. On any team,

(31:45):
you can't have guys showing up late for meetings, missing things,
and not being held accountable for Absolutely correct. You cannot
have that. And if that's what happened here, that's bad. Again,
and I'm not saying it did. I'm not saying it that.
I don't know the answer to that. You can't have that.
Do they have to be held and put on blast
publicly by their teammates. I don't think that's a necessity,

(32:09):
but I think it is a necessity for the point
to beget to get across internally in front of the
teammates that that's not acceptable and that can't go on. Now, again,
this is not speaking specifically to this situation. I have
no idea what's going on with that. Okay, that's how

(32:29):
I look at it. I don't think it has to
be done publicly, but I do think guys have to
be held to a high standard in the building in general,
and that I think does, to Donnie's point, translate to
a higher standard of play when guys are held to
a high standard of accountability. I think overall as a
guiding principle, Donnie, I think that is correct, and I
don't disagree with what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, I agree with that too, John. But Donnie seems
to want the public blast. That's where he seems to becoming. Well,
I mean, that's where I vehemently disagree with you.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Here's the thing I will say this, I think, and again,
this is not talking about this specific situation. This is
talking generally. Okay. I think you get to a point
where if you do this stuff internally and it's not
public and the guy keeps doing it, I understand, you
get to a point where you do if they say

(33:20):
something publicly, then maybe that's going to get across to
the guy, you know what I mean. And again, I'm
not saying that's what happened here. I'm just saying in general,
if publicly, if privately you're saying that you can't do this,
you get fined, but the guy keeps doing it. I
could see eventually you're saying, look, all right, leaders on defense,
leaders on the team, it's time for you guys to
to do something about this, and maybe that's the best

(33:40):
way to do it. I get how you get to
a point where that's necessary. Again, I'm not saying that's
where the Giants are. I'm just saying generally speaking, Well.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
If you recall, there were many times and even even
MyD Bradshaw had issues sometimes with a curfew and so forth.
And in one game we were in Dallas and Bradshaw
got benched by coach Coughlin for the whole first half
of the game, and it was an important game. So
what happens is usually a coach who is going to
try to maintain discipline and respect in the locker room.

(34:11):
And you're absolutely right, John, He's got to deal with
everybody in that locker room. And if guys see that
such discretions are going to be ignored or just kind
of fluffed off, it causes a bad problem throughout the
locker room. And everyone has to be treated the same way.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
No doubt. So here's what I would say. And we
don't even have to go to Bill Parcels and Lawrence Taylor.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
We were not even gonna go there because that was unique.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Okay, that was totally unique. But here's what I would say.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
What happens is you find a guy a few times, okay, one, two, three,
whatever it turns out to be. And the CBA, by
the way, has regulations for these things, as you know,
So you find them a few times. Then then you
take some snaps away. Whether he doesn't start, whether he
misses a series, he misses a quarter, he misses a half,

(35:06):
or maybe he does miss a game, those are all options.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
If the guy.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Continuously becomes a repeat offender. Now, if the guy misses
some snaps like yesterday, we all noticed that Abdu Carda
did not start the game, right, We all saw it.
Everybody in the building saw it. Everybody on television saw
Abdu Carta did not start the game. So what happens.
Somebody's going to say something to the coach and say, whoa,

(35:32):
why didn't Abdu Carter start the game. And the coach
is going to say, coach's decision. We had an issue
done with it. Well, now it's been brought to public light.
The question becomes, and I think this is where Donnie
and I have a tremendous chasm of disagreement. How much
do you allow that thing to become exposed to where

(35:55):
it becomes a volcanic eruption at a huge distraction for
your team.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
I think that a counter productive and I think that's
a good point too. I get that, and and that's
where I'm going again. I can see if it gets
to a point where and again I'm not saying that's
what the giants are. If you get to the point
when you think that's the only way you can salvage
the player and get him doing things the right way,

(36:19):
I think that's your last resort.

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Now.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I don't know if this has been Maybe this is
not the first time Keon Coleman has done this, maybe
it's been habitual. Yeah, we don't.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
And we don't even know exactly what went on here.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
That is correct. Again, I'm just talking theoretically, so but
that generally speaking, I think, yes, you don't want to
generally throw guys under the bus publicly. I generally rarely
do good things come out of that.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
And by the way, players in the locker room as
much as and I get the point that you want respect,
you want order, and you want everyone to be treated equally.
If you start allowing uh, the transgressions to become totally public. Well,
a lot of guys in the locker room are gonna
look at your little squinty eye too.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
They're not gonna be real happy with that. Well, here's
the thing, that's why if it's gonna be done. And
he talked about Dion Again, I didn't see any of
the key on col My stuff yesterday. He talks about
Dion Dawkins doing it if it's the leader in the
of the team, one of the captains that has a
pulse of the team, and he thinks that's what the
team would want, and it helps the locker room more
than hurts it, potentially, then that's a different conversation too.

(37:23):
So I think it's very specific in terms of when
it's needed when it's not, and it's gonna be very
particular to the locker room, to the player that you're
talking about, because some players you might do that and
they might shut down and you might lose them if
you do that, and players you might do that matter,
All of that matters. It's a very those situations are
delicate to handle, and I think it's it's very very

(37:46):
individual to the players in the locker room to figure
out in what circumstance is the best way to do
in certain ways. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
That's why I just thought Donnie was a little broadbrush.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
And but I think his general point though, that you've
got to make sure your hope people account of a
thousands absolutely.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Agree with that. Yes, I mean, Donnie on that, I'm
definitely with you. We're on the same highway.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
And I don't think he's wrong either that we're just
taking different exits off the turnpike. And I don't think
he's wrong in the recent history some of the stuff
with Odell, like there was some stuff for stuff was
let to slide which should not have been left to slide.
I think that's fair too.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Absolutely, But that's that wasn't the initial call was about
Carter Again.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
I'm trying to bring you and Donnie together, That's what
I'm trying to say.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
We're on the turnpike, you know, we're just on different exits.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
That's all Donnie could different me. It has been a
wat we heard from you.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Good call.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
All right, let's go back to the phones two on
one nine three four five one three. Let's go to Robin,
New London, Johnny Mack, Rob what's going on?

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Hey, guys, how is it going today.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
We're good, Robbie. How's it going?

Speaker 8 (38:44):
Man?

Speaker 6 (38:45):
Hey, it's going.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
I mean this year has been pretty tough. But let's
move on from that.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
November. But that's where we are.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
So okay, the optics, okay, so the optics are really bad.
And but the thing that I concerned is is playing performance.
I mean, he sort of reminds me now of Isaiah Simmons.
So the question I have to ask is, let's draft
Rubin Sain. I think that's what we have to start
concerning ourselves with.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Also, Rob, Rob Rob just time out, real quick, real
real quick. I think Ruben Green's a great player. By
the way, I think it's gonna be a top five
draft pick. He's gonna help whatever teams go to. You
can't draft another right Trussure. You can't draft another right
Trushure at the top five. You can you can't. The
only way you can do that is if you trade
a guy like Tibbot out. It's the only way.

Speaker 7 (39:37):
So do you graft the safety them because there's a
safety the top five or do you go for a corner?
I think I want a quarterback in the top five,
not a safety, right because the number one defensive back
in college is a safety, not a corner.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I don't know where you go with Rob honestly in
this year's class. And I don't want to get too
far aheads of the draft year because I know you
want to talk about the coaching starts too, and you
should hit that next. This is the year, in my opinion,
if you have a top five, you get the hell
out of there, you make a trade, and you try
to get more draft capital later in the draft.

Speaker 9 (40:05):
Anyway, go ahead, So we have to talk about go no,
go on the coaching search, sure, and it's simple.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
Anybody who was born during the Truman or Eisenhower administration hard, no, no, no, no,
anybody who is around for what's that?

Speaker 3 (40:33):
I don't think. I don't think anyone was. I mean
Eisenhower was in the fifties. I don't think anyone looking
for a coaching job was. I mean, no, that's fine.
And look and Robbie, Robbie, I don't think Robin. I
don't think Bill Belichick is a serious candidate. So I
think you cannot worry about it.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
And I suspect that you have just eliminated dig for
Meal too.

Speaker 6 (40:50):
Yes, I'm willing to make a pass on him. You
guys have a good day now, all right, No.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Robbie YouTube man, And look, I know yesterday Jay Glazer
listed a bunch of names. It's names that we talked about.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
By the way, Martin Levy is still healthy.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Marve Levy is still around. That is Jay Glaizer listed
a bunch of names yesterday. It's all names that we
kind of talked about last week in one way, shape
or form. So some guys were experienced. The one thing
Jay Glazer did report, and again we're not saying he's correct,
We're just saying this is what he reported was that
they're not interested to go in the college rout, which
does not surprise me at all. No, but he had
a couple of coordinators in there. I think for Shula

(41:33):
is a guy he mentioned. He had Kubiak in there.
Mike McCarthy is a former head coach. It's all the
guys that you would think would be in the conversation.
Luderumo was a guy that he mentioned. Steve Spagnola is
a guy that he mentioned. I don't want leave himbody out,
but those are the guys that I remember from the
report that I saw from social media this morning.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
The key to this whole thing, and we mentioned this
on the pregame show yesterday on the Fan, is that
you honestly don't know for sure what that pool is
going to look like today.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
You don't know what head coach is going to lose
their job.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I mean that in all honesty that I mean, Look,
I had somebody the other day on a different show,
I was on Call up and say, what if John
Harball get gets let go? What if Mike Tamalin gets
let go? Look, I have no idea if they're going
to be let go or not, but I think any
team that is looking for a head coach at that
time would certainly want to put in a phone call

(42:27):
to guys who have that kind of resume. But we
have no idea who's gonna be who's going to be available.
So some of this I get the impatience, but some
of this conversation is still too premature. And again, to
be honest, we both believe that Mike Kafka has a
legitimate audition at this job.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and we'll see how that goes. Two one, nine, three, nine,
four or five one They rob good call, Thank you
very much. Let's go to coach Marvin and Delaware coach.
What's going on? Pal?

Speaker 8 (42:57):
How you doing? John and Paul?

Speaker 9 (42:58):
We're good good.

Speaker 8 (43:00):
I was listening to my guy talked about the discipline
and guys and when it comes to discipline of team, Yeah, yeah,
you know fair. I mean, yeah, you got to treat
guys fair, but you got not gonna be able to
treat them equally.

Speaker 6 (43:16):
It just don't.

Speaker 8 (43:17):
It doesn't work that way. It's not equally. It's fairly.
And when you have guys that have problems with making
it on time, sometimes it depends on who it is.
Lawrence Taylor has a lot of issues off the field,
you ain't gonna you ain't gonna them and put it
out into the public, even though that's a different time.

(43:40):
So Jimmy Johnson had some problems and he I remember
him talking about if Michael Irvin is sleeping the in
the in the film room while they having a meeting,
he wakes them up.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Yeah, but you know, yeah, the coach. I don't think
either one of those guys were rookies when they were
doing that.

Speaker 8 (43:59):
No, you know, but what I'm saying is not so
much rookie or or or a veteran. I think it
comes down who that person is and what he means
to the team.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Well, and I think, but it's also how you get
the most out of that player, right, You want to
get the most out of the player so that you
can help the team play their best brand of football.
And I think I'll say this first, I don't think
the eighties Giants or the nineties Cowboys would have survived
in today's social media environment. I think that neither one
of those teams would have had success just because of

(44:33):
everything that went on with those groups. Because they were
interesting and unique, is the way I'll put him. But yes, look,
if you haven't established super like Charles Hally was a lunatic.
The guy was a legitimate maniac. But to deal with
his special skills, you deal with him being a crazy person.
But those are You're also at the point there where

(44:54):
you're winning. You have other leaders on the team. You're
not trying to establish a culture. You know when when
LT got here is doing that stuff. Paul can speak
to this better than me. You have Harry Carson there,
you have George Martin there. Yeah, it's a little bit different. Paul,
you can speak to this better than me. Obviously, I
want to I want to bring a different outside element

(45:14):
to this particular equation. You did not have a salacious
media and social media that also wanted to make a
huge distraction out of every little indiscretion or fine that
a player would get. In fact, stuff got buried. Then
that would not get buried now.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Right, correct? And so so you know today, you know
if literally literally any tiny infraction.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
The media can't wait to get a hold of that
and spread it all over the place, and it's it
and it's gonna get asked about and the locker room's
gonna have to answer to it all day.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
But in those days, forget it. Every I can tell
you I was part of the press corps forty years ago,
and I can tell you even if a lot of
us found out about some of these things, we laughed,
We stuffed it off, and we laughed.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Okay, go ahead, you got a game Sunday. Let's talk
about the game. That doesn't happen today, Coach.

Speaker 8 (46:11):
It just doesn't understand that you're forgetting them sixty four
years old. I'm not, and I worked with Department of
Justice this type of media stuff, believe me or not,
Believe it or not, we were talking about it before
it got.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
Here to coach.

Speaker 8 (46:29):
Here we were discussing about how the how the truth
can get turned through social media.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Coach, you were born during the Kennedy administration, right, I
said you were born you were born during the Kennedy administration.
Then correct, Yes, that was the last caller thinks you're eligible.

Speaker 10 (46:54):
Oh man, you know.

Speaker 8 (46:55):
I wish I could. I really wish I could, because
these young guys need to be talked to anyway. But
what I want to really talk about, John, you was
right about talking about Shane Bowen, about his system and
all of that. And again, these guys can coach, all
of them can coach. You can't get these jobs and
just be some knucklehead off the street and just have

(47:18):
some crazy idea about defense. What happens is I believe
what happens if you know, sometimes the defense is playing well.
A lot of those games we were in, they're playing
well in the first part of those games. We ain't
stop to run that well. Me and Paul talked about
this last Friday because we're playing a fourth we're playing
with four men down, but we plan with two edge rushers.

(47:42):
They're not actual defensive ends, they're edge rushers, and I
think that causes that. I believe that caused us a
few problems when it comes to going against the rush.
But it's when he calls the place, what plays you
call it in certain situations and my feeling this is
just me. I get the feeling that the team doesn't

(48:05):
believe it, and when I call a play, they need
to believe in what I'm telling them that's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
You might be right about that. There's no way for
us to know whether that's true or not.

Speaker 8 (48:17):
Right, We don't You're right, we don't know.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
And I talked about.

Speaker 8 (48:24):
And and so so what happens is they have to believe,
and I feel sometimes they don't believe in the call
or they don't believe in themselves to that call that's
being called out, and they're not executing it the way
it needs to be executed. If you look at the
body linguage, you listen to them tall in the in
the issues that you're having with you know, now I'm

(48:45):
duing Carter. He's on the bench. You had that thing
with Burns when they said he came off the field
upset about a call. He said he wasn't, but people
took it that way. They talked about Dexter Lawrence and
his performance. You talked about a car K and his
performance in the last two years. Now you're talking about
Banks and how he's not playing well, and everybody on

(49:07):
the defense you hear it, and you hear it, and
it seems like it's like they losing a belief and
it seems like you getting to the fourth quarter and
there's that they always say, oh my god, here we go.
All they takes is one play and make you not
believe in say, oh my god, here they come, and
we can't stop them. So my feeling is this organization

(49:29):
right now, this my last part is we're not at
the crossroad. We're in the middle of the crossroads and
either we're gonna go forward, back right or less. We
need to figure it out because the traffic is coming
and we're gonna get run over if we don't figure
that out.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
That's how I feel about it.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
All right, guys, be good, appreciate the call. All right,
let's go to Brian Ohio, he's up next. Hey, Brian,
Hey you guys join Hi.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Hello, We're goat go ahead, Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry
I didn't hear you, guys, Okay, go ahead, thanks for calling.

Speaker 11 (50:08):
All right, But now it's been Giants fan since nineteen
seventy nine. So cool, and but too many players hurt
and we're getting players or talked and noose show to
replace them. I can think of one thing as a suggestion, only,
why don't we get a jack of all trades player?

(50:30):
And the first player that comes to mind is Elijah Chapman.
Why can't we bring him back? I mean, I mean
with ye I mean I can imagine Olija Chapman playing
full back and running over players. He played players looks tired.
We'll put him in. Chapman, I mean, he's a jack

(50:50):
of all trade.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
He played yesterday. Listen, listen, listen. He was in the
game yesterday.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
He played goal line offense. He had two straight snaps
and blocked for Singletary's touchdown one of the two.

Speaker 11 (51:01):
Okay, Okay, I didn't see that, but I'm just saying
that since he's always on the practice squad, I'm just
feeling we just needn't signed him the contract before it's
too late. But as for coaches and everything, that's a
different story. But I just want to I'm just I
just have just to make a name for himself because

(51:21):
I think he can do really well.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
All right, Brian, good call, appreciate it. Yeah, he's on
the practice squad. He got an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yesterday, first activation. He gets two more.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah and giants, said Elijah Chapman. Unfortunately not Elijah. He
had Elijah Garcia post off the practice squad over the weekend.
He had been acted. He had gotten a one year
deal because he had that the multiple activisions early. Then
they put him, they let him go, put him back
on the practice squad. Then he got clean. Who cleaned
in the Falcons?

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Right, Yes, I explain them.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
So I'm happy for him. He's a great dude, by
the way. Elija Garcia good guy. So good to see
him get a big opportunity. Here we get screen one
more to Johnny Mack. Let's go to Dave and Cranford.
He's up next, Dave.

Speaker 11 (51:55):
What's going on by j Paul.

Speaker 10 (52:00):
Particular? You know, look, we could talk Carter. Okay, fine,
I'm done with that conversation. And you know, yeah, it's concerning.
I think it's one of those things that in a
game and in a season, it takes on more energy
just because everything's under the microscope. Because it's been so frustrating.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
But oh no, David, by the way, I have no
problem with fans being upset about it and paying attention
to it. It's a story. Your third overall pick got
benched for something during the week that he didn't do. Right.
I mean that's that. I'm not downplaying the story at all.
I mean, it's real, whatever happened.

Speaker 10 (52:34):
I agree, I agree, But I do agree.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
That distraction becomes bigger and more blown up when you're
in the middle of a losing season. Of course, there's
no doubt about that. And yes, to your point, that
is correct.

Speaker 10 (52:48):
But the two players that I really think and I
just think Kafka has got to do something because now
right or wrong, good or bad, it's it's his responsibility
and that is that is Higattan Banks and and they
it the eye in the sky doesn't lie. And so
unfortunately for those guys, every play, you know, is subject

(53:10):
to the you know all twenty two you can see,
you know, not just you know the obvious plays. You know,
we can talk about the interception and the fact that
he doesn't cross that that that defenders faces is insane.
You know that that's an obvious one.

Speaker 9 (53:28):
But there.

Speaker 10 (53:28):
There's also one where I believe Winston ends up getting
sacked on this play where they run a beautiful mesh
concept and and Hyatt comes off the right side and
he has to keep his depth and and by the way,
if he kept his depths the right way, where he
would be basically criss crossing with Wandel Robinson. He is
completely open into a gap that James Winston could but

(53:51):
because there's a linebacker there, he ends up being in
the He goes on the outside of him or towards
the goal line, on the on the backside of him
to avoid any contact. You know, these guys don't want contact.
Banks and Hyatt do not want contact, and they don't

(54:12):
and you can see it play after play after play.
Hyatt can't do a contested catch. Banks doesn't throw a
shoulder or or get into a position. Well, he's actually
many times in position as we all can see that
lack of effort when you can see it on tape.
It is so it's it's not giant football. It is

(54:33):
it is. It's a cancer to the team. When it's
not addressed, those guys should not be on the field anymore.
And Kafka, it's he knows what's good for him, because
now they're saying to him, hey, we're not making you know,
ownership GM. Maybe I don't know. We're not making those decisions.
These are your decisions now, Mike, you inherited this. You

(54:55):
make a decision. He unfortunately, he's got to make a
decision and look at that and say this is this
is not an isolated event. Yesterday was not isolated. This
has been going on all season with these guys. I'd
rather see almost anyone else. It's just beyond frustrating.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
You will notice you saw Black getting more reps later
in the game yesterday. You saw Nick Jones getting some
reps in the slot. Yesterday, you saw high it out
there more so than you did not I believe did
Ray Ray McLeod even get any snaps? John? What was
his count if he had any at all? I don't

(55:31):
think he had any.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
I remember I don't remember seeing him seeing me.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Okay, So Mike Kafka has already decided just after week one.
I mean Isaiah Hodgens got here too, you know, on Thursday,
and he started.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
McLeod did not play any name. I didn't think so.
So forty four snaps Hodgens played fifty seven.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
So I'm not sure why the call and why the complaint,
because Mike Kafka has already shown that he is concerned
about player deployment and he's already but he ain't already
made some adjustments to the snap accounts and the player deployment.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
But he did to give high as highest snapcount of
the year.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
He did, and I think they were hoping that he
was going to be more productive, but for the most part,
he's been deep in the shadows under the previous coach.
And here was Kafka saying, Okay, you know what, I
don't think Ray Ray McLeod needs to play. I want
to see what Hyatt can do. He now saw what
he saw, and let's say moving forward that Kafka is

(56:28):
going to have to make a decision as to how
many snaps he gets. Darius Slayton should be back next week.
That should alleviate some of the logjam at wide receiver.
But I think the point that I'm simply making to
you is that we did see some snapcount changes and
some player deployment changes in the game yesterday. We didn't.
So if you're if you're complaining that you know he

(56:51):
hasn't done that. Well, he's had one game and.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
He did do it.

Speaker 10 (56:56):
Okay, okay, Paul Fair, Yes we did. We did see
So maybe it's fair enough to say when he gets
a chance to look at the tape and and to
and to see that now, and to see Banks on
a run up the middle, and to see him on
the sideline when when they actually challenged the guy throwing,

(57:17):
Banks had every opportunity to push the guy out of bounds.

Speaker 8 (57:20):
He just saw it.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, it wasn't good.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
It wasn't good.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
He does.

Speaker 10 (57:27):
And I get it. Man, I got a chance one time,
and I'll leave you with this. I got a chance
one time to watch a game from the sideline, long
story whatever. And and Paul John, you guys have been there.
You know what I'm saying, Island. It's not like sitting
in the front rock the collisions, the smallest hit that

(57:50):
we watch on TV and now no big deal is
a car wreck. These guys, I get it. But at
the end of the day, I grew up on Mark
Collins and Kenny Still and rail Roll. These you know,
relatively speaking, they're not small guys, but relatively speaking, on
the football field they are, and they would they would
come up and they they would put their body in

(58:11):
harm's way every play when they when they were in position.
And these guys don't want contact. They simply Hyatts used
to run in free in Tennessee and Dante banks Is
used to be in the fastest most athletic guy on
the field at Maryland. And it doesn't translate to the NFL.
You have to have a physical presence and they don't

(58:33):
have it. And and unfortunately the All twenty two shows it,
not once, not twice, but it's a pattern. And and Kafka, unfortunately,
I agree he did some some changes, but those guys,
they they simply cannot see the field. Now, maybe guys
coming back Slayton, maybe the cornerback of thebo you know,

(58:56):
these guys come back, and that alleviates it. But it
should even take that. It should take a coach saying, hey, guys,
you can show me you can run the right play.
You're not back on the field. You haven't earned you
guys haven't earned it. We've given you more than enough
opportunity to prove it.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Thanks Davi, appreciate the call.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
I understand it's frustration and it's year it is year
three for both guys. Get laterly, uh, it is.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Now a first time, first game, new head coach though,
and he needs to be able to evaluate on his own.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah, I don't know if you start, I don't know
if you start the guys.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Your own scratch, but I don't.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
But I think that's the new head coach. You have
to give each guy an opportunity to prove to you
is you're the head coach, that they can do it.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Because I think that's fair. He needs to find out
if they will respond to him. Yes, And and the
other thing I want to mention this about Banks, and
I know he's become a whipping boy here and quite frankly,
he's brought a lot of it on himself because you know,
it's been bad place. He's he's the whipping pole because
he has done enough to send his game in the

(01:00:02):
wrong direction. And no one's going to dispute that. But
when he was a rookie, he was physical.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
He did hit guys, and coverage specially did a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
And and I haven't seen that. It's like it disappeared.
I don't I don't know where it went. He had
much more grit to him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
And he wasn't a guy and he wasn't a guy
in college that I ran from contact either no game
or least at least not that I would have to
go back look at my notes, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Don't recall any of that. That's why I love the
kids so much. When he was coming out, he wasn't
just nudging guys, He wasn't stepping back. He wasn't doing
any of that. So he had it in him. What
took it out of him the last two years, I
don't know. And if you're Mike Kafka and you want.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
This job and you want to succeed, you're going to
try to see if somehow you can get it out
of him. Let's go to Marcus in California to wrap
things up today. Marcus, what's going on? Then?

Speaker 10 (01:00:57):
Hey, how you guys doing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
We're good?

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Uh?

Speaker 12 (01:01:00):
That's good?

Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
Uh?

Speaker 12 (01:01:02):
Man, hope John Marriag's getting better again. Just always want
to say that, but yeah, it just felt like the
same thing yesterday.

Speaker 11 (01:01:09):
Man.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
It's just just.

Speaker 10 (01:01:10):
Is what it is.

Speaker 12 (01:01:12):
And I don't want us to lose every game and tank,
but I hope everybody wins out and we get that
number one overall pick and we trade out, Like I
feel like that's the only way we're going to get better, man,
is if we get that pick and trade way back
and just building. Because there's only like twenty five guys
on this team.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
I would keep what you get, all right, Marcus, appreciate
the call, men, Yeah, sorry about that. We're over. I
want to make sure that we wrap up here. That
was the first call we got. The first calls on
the draft November Johnny mac mark down November seventeenth, this year,
first picks we got on draft strategy. Yeah, by the way,

(01:01:55):
then it's just for the people that haven't paid attention.
If you're not, go check out draft season. Our draft podcast.
Tony and I will have a good show yesterday talking
about his top twenty five players. This is not a
good top ten year. You're there's enough good players, but
there's not a lot of guys that you're jumping through
hoops to draft in the top five, right, which is
why I said previously this is a trade down type

(01:02:16):
of year. The problem is that it's going to be
hard right now. I think Ty Simpson, if he comes
out out of Alabama. When you watch them, Paul, you'll
like told me to now, he did not play great
against Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Saw that game and he was a little like I
need to see more.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Yes, understood. And he's this his first year starting to
which I know you're not gonna like that either.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
I'm not a butt fan.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
There could be a team that wants to get a quarterback.
I would want to move up to that. So, and
there are some good edge players in this drafty down
to it. You've got RVL recent Ohio State. You have
Ruben Bayn, who the previous color mentioned out of Miami
that some people might don't. Someone told me that Rubeny
might measure under thirty two inch arms. Oh my, as
an edge rusher, So that could be a problem. Ryan

(01:02:56):
Wilson again if you check out Draft season, said that
on Draft season to us last week. So look or
what was that two weeks ago? That might have been?
That might have been Chad Ryder two weeks ago. Either way,
you go chock up all episodes. This is not a
great top five year, So I don't know. Again, who
knows whether Giant's gonna be picking. They have their last
four games I think are games that they should have
a chance to win. Then again, we've been saying that

(01:03:18):
for weeks and they just never win any of these games.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
But well they always have a chance.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Well yeah, well they've actually been in games too, it's
not they have a chance, had a chance to do so. Yeah,
I think when you look at it, that's kind of
what the draft class looks like. I don't think there's
gonna be a there's not going to be a top
five corner. But this way, the top corner of this
year's draft class as a torn a c hasn't played
this year. Yeah, jermm mcoy out of Tennessee. So I don't,

(01:03:43):
I don't. I don't think you're getting a top eight,
top seven corner Cayle Down. You want a draft safety
in the top five or six. He's a great player,
but that's kind of high for a safety, and not
a great offensive tackle draft class either, So you're running
out of positions. Maybe wide receiver Cardial Lake, Cardil Tate.

(01:04:04):
Part of me, yeah, I know you mean out of
Carnell Lake is the former steel I know exactly where
you want. I'm gonna do that this off season many times.
By the way, I'm sure you will. Carnal Tate, Carnal Lake,
it's close you know Jordan Dyson at Arizona, Buddy, Oh,
I want to make sure I had the names right,
by the way, on the Glazer report. I looked it up.
The names he mentioned, McCarthy, Matt Naggie, because these are
guys you talk about, guys with former head coaching experience, McCarthy, Naggie,

(01:04:28):
Arthur Smith, Steve Spagnolo. And then the two non former
head coaches that were coordinators he mentioned were Louanna Roumo
and Chris Shula. So I want to make sure I
had those names right from the report. Just so we're
all on the same page. All right, everybody, that's Big
Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle
the Giants. We're in the Hacketsack Marini Health Podcast Studio'll
keep getting better, just to remind their folks. You can

(01:04:49):
find all of our podcast on the Giants app, giants
dot com, slash podcast, or your favorite podcast platform. The
video is also on our YouTube channel. Make sure you
check it out. We're live on Big Book kick Off
Live every weekday at twelve thirty. Johns Total Podcast coming
your way this week. The rapid reactions on the audio
feed from yesterday check that out. Stay with us all
week as we continue to break down the Giants. Next
week it's the Detroit Lions, as they came off a

(01:05:11):
game where's bad as I've seen their offense looking at.
Which is why I said the Eagles defense is playing
so well, because that's two weeks in a row that
they made the Packers look terrible and they made the
Lions look terrible, two good teams. So that looked like
the old version of golf. It did. He was not good.
The pressure got to him and he kind of just
collapsed under the pressure even when they weren't getting pressure
or blitzing anyway. That's a story for another day see

(01:05:34):
tomorrow twelve thirty. That's syetacking lance on Big Blue Kickoff.
Love Tanks are being with us. We'll see you then,