Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/19 | Turning the Page to the Lions

Madelyn Burke and Shaun O’Hara give some final takeaways from the Packers game, talk about the roster going into week 12, and take calls from fans. 

0:00 - Packers takeaways

18:00 - Calls

35:10 - Quarterbacks

46:30 - Jaxson Dart

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff Live. Nobody can
ever tell you that you couldn't do it because you're
on giants dot Com. You know what I saw New
York Giant Crime and the Giants Mobile app seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
One.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Tuck down.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
We all, we're all tapering it.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
We'll appen part of the Giants podcast Network.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Let's go on.

Speaker 5 (00:25):
A craze dog has a un Welcome into today's episode
of Big Blue Kickoff Live, presented by Cadillac, the official
luxury vehicle of the New York Football Giants. It's Wednesday,
November nineteenth. My name is Madeline Burke, alongside the Super
Bowl champion Sean O'Hara. The phone number here is to
A one nine three nine four five one three, where
you can find us on social media using hashtag Giants Chat.

(00:47):
Just a reminder and archive of this show and our
entire podcast network is available on the Giants Mobile app,
podcast platforms Everywhere and giants dot com slash Podcastings for
joining us from the Giants Podcast Studio presented by Hackensack
Meridian Health, Keep getting Better. Happy hump Day, Sean Wednesday,
My dudes.

Speaker 6 (01:05):
Hey, Mike, Mike, Mike. Middle of the week and wow,
as you rattled off the date November nineteenth, like I
just I can't believe we're here already, Like Thanksgiving is
next week. Yeah, and they're already.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
In the city in Manhattan, they have the Christmas tree
stands up already. Oh yeah, like everybody's buying their Christas
trees already, Like it's it's time.

Speaker 6 (01:30):
The holiday cup at Starbucks has been out for a while,
that's been you know, that's been blazing for a couple
of weeks now. But yeah, the city is starting to
prep up. I think the tree is already there. I
think they're decorating it currently right now. That's always kind
of like the signal for like all right, here we are,
it's Christmas time. But yeah, here we go. I mean,
we got a beautiful day out there today, but the
weather has definitely turned a little bit. This is like

(01:53):
one of my favorite times of the year football wise,
Like as you're morphinged into the best holiday of the year,
thanks Giving, we got food, we got football, we got family,
we got fun. It doesn't get any better than that.
But I tell you it's uh, it's it's always fun
to hang out with you and and to to talk football.

(02:13):
I'm bummed I wasn't there for the postgame show on Sunday.
I know we'll cut probably rehash some of that as well,
but you were.

Speaker 5 (02:22):
Busy celebrating another f which is a freaking fantastic win
by the Franklin Lake Warrigals.

Speaker 6 (02:28):
Yes, yeah, that was fun. Franklinlink's Warrigals were in the
Super Bowl on UH on Saturday night against Wykeoff and
it was It was a battle. I mean, it went
down to the wire, down to the last play of
the game twice and the Worlds came out victorious. Kids
were so fired up. It was a really cool moment

(02:48):
for for the entire Franklin Lakes team, players, of coaches,
the families.

Speaker 5 (02:53):
A lot of fun over here coaching these kids up.

Speaker 6 (02:57):
Yeah yeah, I tell you, the Hara record in Super
Bowl is still unblemished. So I'm thankful that my son
Jack is keeping that thing clean. But Kevin Bilan, our
head coach, He's done a great job all year long.
We've got a great coaching staff, but Bilan has been
there before. He did a great job with the kids
getting ready and the war Eagles we put it on them,

(03:21):
got it done.

Speaker 5 (03:22):
Yeah, sins TCB to take care of some business here.
We've got some updates for you. Mike Kafka interim head
coach Mike Kafka speaking to the media currently as we speak.
The big news coming out of his media availability running
back Eric Gray, his window is being open today coming
off ir and Jackson Dart, who's been in the concussion protocol,
miss last week's game due to a concussion. He will

(03:44):
be a non contact participant at practice today, which in
quarterback terms is just regular practice. But yes, we'll be
I assume listed as limited as he works his way
back onto the field. Still remains to be seen what
a status will be for Week twelve against Detroit, but
a good sign for Jackson d Artist he works his

(04:05):
way back.

Speaker 6 (04:06):
Yeah, And I think that's part of the concussion protocol
is you know, look, you don't just take a week
off and then bam, you're thrown right back out there
at full gall ready to rock. So you kind of
vamp up a little bit. And I think anytime you
know players have dealt with a concussion or something similar
to that, as you work back into working out, it's

(04:26):
all right, let's kind of escalate the the regimen and
the rigorous activity, and just make sure that as you
increase the exercise and the intensity of the exercise, do
any of the symptoms come back, because that is always
one thing that happens sometimes if you get a concussion,
you start working out again and now all of a sudden,

(04:48):
you know, the heady comes back or the symptoms come back.
So that's kind of why you get kind of eased
into the rigorousness of practice or working out. And obviously,
you know, you hope as a player, you back, you
start working out and you feel like yourself again, you
feel great. That is how you know that you're training
in the right.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
Direction right and sometimes it takes time to power through
and not just the physical activity. You know, obviously the
Lions play in a dome at Ford Field, and so
the Giants are practicing inside today in the field house,
not you know, not inconvenient considering how chilly it is
out there, but when you're practicing inside, the sounds are
a bit louder. You know that element too when you're
coming back from a concussion. You know, if you've never

(05:28):
had a traumatic brain injury like that before, I would
liken it to the you know, for above twenty one
listeners over there like the worst hangover you've ever had times.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
Ten, Well, you're speaking from experience.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
Yeah, I've had several multiple concussions. I'm not talking about
my hangovers here. Both, but I did go to Arizona
State guilty. I mean, both things can be true. But yes,
I have had several concussions. Yeah, and they are not fine.

Speaker 6 (05:54):
You're part of that forked up life, you know, down
in Arizona State. But yes, the concussion and you know,
you know, for san it's you know, everybody's different. But
sometimes even just being in the sun or being the lights,
you know, it could be visual the symptoms that you feel,
it could be auditory, you know, loud noises, that could
be you know, you could kind of all of a

(06:14):
sudden feel a little bit more a little extra sensitive,
hyper sensitive if you will, to some of those.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
And the headaches, the nausea, the inability to focus, all
that kind of stuff comes rushing right back if you're
not quite ready to get back into it full fledge.
So again, wishing Jackson Dart a speedy recovery as he
gets ready to work his way back on the field.
You know, when you look at you Obviously we talked
about this a little bit before, but you know, last

(06:43):
week's game, James Winston came out. He did a great job.
Kafka praised him for being so decisive and but for
that final play, you know, he's very accurate. Not final play,
but that final uh that red zone, red zone throw
too intended for Jalen High that was intercepted. Jamis was
very accurate. I think going into that week, you know

(07:04):
a lot of Giants fans and NFL fans in general
kind of just about Jamis's history of being you know,
he'll throw a bunch of touchdowns and a bunch of
picks in which one comes out, you know, on top.
But he decisive, accurate and took control of that offense.
The offense again continues to kind of show. I mean, Sean,
we've done many years of postgame shows where the Giants

(07:24):
couldn't eclipse that twenty point mark. Offensively, They're able to
put points on the board, just not quite stopping the
other team from doing that.

Speaker 6 (07:35):
More we'll say, yeah, yeah, look, I think Jamis played well,
and I think leading up to that game it was okay,
you know, what is Jamis going to bring to this offense. Obviously,
he's more of a pocket quarterback, pocket thrower, so that
element of it is going to change. You're not going
to see, you know, as many move the pocket passes
like you would with Jackson Dark and you're not going

(07:55):
to see the quarterback design runs like you would have seen.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
But we did.

Speaker 5 (07:59):
We did see him run too. He is celebrated like
he had and his pants gone.

Speaker 6 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, he's got He's got the dad dance down,
the dad moves. But I think, you know, Jamis did
a great job the opening drive. They march down the
field nine plays, they score a touchdown and two touchdowns
in the first half alone, and I felt like he
did a great job getting the ball out and it
was in rhythm. And I think that that's his confidence
in the offense, you know, obviously, you know, just his

(08:25):
experience that hey, look I'm just going to keep I'm
going to give I'm going to take what they're giving
us and just keep moving the sticks, keep moving. The change.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
Well, you mentioned that opening drive too, though, that that
first fifteen plays is scripted, right, and so when you
look at the fact that this is Mike Kafka's first
game at the Helm as introim head coach, and that
the scripted design plays and how effective that first drive.
What does that say about Kafka as well?

Speaker 6 (08:46):
Well, I think that that just signals that, you know,
Kafka is pliable and his his offense and his ability
to kind of morph things.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Now.

Speaker 6 (08:54):
You know, look, I think he obviously has been with
Jamis all year long. He understands, you know, just through
practice through preseason when we did see Jamis, Here's what
he likes, Here's what he throws. Well, Jamis likes to
throw the ball outside the numbers. He likes to He's
got a really good arm. He likes to drive the
ball and throw some deep outs. And I think that
that's kind of where where he really excels. And I

(09:17):
think that's easy if you're if you're Mike Kafka, if
you're Shay Tierney and you're looking at, okay, what plays
uh fit this quarterback the best? It's it's easy to
kind of go through and say, all right, here, here's
where we're going to try to attack. Now you go
into the game and you say, all right, what's the coverage?
What are they playing? And I think you know, early
on there was there was a lot of zone. So
you saw Jamis kind of finding some of those windows

(09:38):
and I think he did a really good job with that.
The thing that Jamis and I think if you're a receiver,
you love playing with Jamis because that ball's coming out
like people. You know, look the knock on him is
you know, and I feel like it's kind of a
lazy air of well, Jamis is going to throw some interceptions, Yes, okay,
Jamis there are some interceptions that come with that. I
call him trust throws. It's when the quarterback is he's

(09:59):
throwing on the ball before you're open. He trusts you're
going to be in a spot. And that's been a
big part of Jamis's game. And you know, look, there's
only I think there's only eleven quarterbacks that have ever
thrown for five thousand yards in a season. Jamis is
one of them. Yeah right. It was that that monster
year that he had. He threw four over five thousand yards.
He led the league in touchdowns, also led the league
in interceptions. But he's gonna let it rip and I

(10:21):
think that's you know what you want if you're a receiver,
you want a quarterback that's going to rip that ball.
Out there and give me a chance to make the play.
And I think ultimately that came back to bite him
at the end of the game. That throw. You're talking
about third and six, They're down in the red zone
and he throws a trust It's a trust row. I'm
throwing this ball because I see the coverage this way,

(10:43):
and I'm expecting my receiver to drive out of the
route and to be there to try to make this play.
Every receiver in the NFL would love to have that opportunity. Now,
do you blame Jamis Winston for trust and his receiver?
I can't blame him for that. He took a shot.
Look here the decision I made. The only thing that
I would say on that play is as I went

(11:04):
back and looked at it Matlin on film. Third and six,
you're driving down, you're trying to get a touchout. There
was a chance for THEO like THEO a little stop
route right at the sticks third and six. If he
had thrown at the THEO, he probably would have got
the first down. Now you've got another set of downs
to try to take another shot in the red zone.
But I don't fault for Jamis for making that throw

(11:25):
because he felt like, look, I'm giving my receiver a
chance to make a big play, and then you come
back forward on fourth down, and now you go for
the first down to move the sticks and get a
new set of downs because time wasn't an issue.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
Yeah, and you mentioned too, I mean James taking the
swing not just for the opportunity of, oh, let's go
touchdown here instead of just moving the sticks. But also,
you know, we saw in the preseason a couple of
times how Jamis and Jalen connected for a couple of touchdowns.
And we've also seen the narrative around Jalen this season,
and I can imagine Jamis saying, all right, let me
put you in a position to make a play here. Yeah,

(11:58):
you know, let me help Hbot help the other out,
and Eddy put him in that position. Unfortunately, Jalen wasn't
able to make that play, but I think that that
probably went into that decision as well. I mean, THEO
is leading the team in you know, receiving touchdowns this season.
THEO has got you know, got the numbers, got that good.
And it's like, when you're deciding who am I going
to give this opportunity to, Let's give it to a
guy who I think, you know, could use that that

(12:20):
big ups right now.

Speaker 6 (12:21):
Yeah, and well he was going for the touchdown, you know,
And I think that just lets you know what jamis
where his mindset was that like, hey, I'm putting this
in the end zone. I'm trying to score. Yeah, and
you know, yeah, HBO help a brother out. Well instead
of HBO stood for hanging brother out and and and
he hung him out to drive because Jalen Hyatt clearly,
if you watch that play back, Jalen Hyatt did not

(12:43):
think the ball was coming to him, which is a
cardinal sin. As a receiver, you run the route as this,
You act as if I'm getting this ball, and any
receiver worth a darn you get up to the line
like this ball is coming to me. I'm running the
route with urgency and I'm going to run if that
ball comes to me. I'm ready.

Speaker 5 (12:58):
If you stay ready, you don't have to get You.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
Can never be in that position where, oh, man, I
didn't think the ball was coming to me. So you know,
I half asked my route, which is what he did.
And you know what, there's no excuse for that. So
you know, look, if I'm the coach like, guess what,
Jalen High, you're not getting You're done. I'm giving somebody
else an opportunity. And also, if I'm a quarterback, you
hang me out to dry like that, guess what you're done? Like,
you're dead to me. I'm not coming back to you

(13:23):
in that situation until you prove to me that I
can trust you. So he's got to build that trust back,
not just with you know, his teammates, but with his quarterback,
with his coach, with everybody. Yeah, and that's on him.
And you know, it's not not being critical of the person.
I'm being critical of the play. As a player, you
don't ever want to put on film that you were loafing,
that you were half assed in anything. So you run
every single route, whether you're a receiver, whether you're running back,

(13:45):
you're a tight end, you're an offensive lineman, you run,
you play every play one hundred percent. And if somebody
can turn on the film and say you were loafing
or you didn't finish a play, right man, that's got
a sting.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
Yeah, don't give them a reason to knock you in
that in that.

Speaker 6 (13:59):
Cirtu with the game on the line, right, that makes
zero sense.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
And you know, there's no guarantee the Giants would have
won that game. I mean, Kafka did say that had
they scored there, they would have gone for two. So
it would have taken not one but two plays in
that moment to get the win in that game. Would
have been great to have that opportunity. Remains to be
seen how that would have unfolded regardless, but inevitably, the
Giants did fall to the Packers twenty seven to twenty

(14:23):
and that was the final. A tough loss.

Speaker 6 (14:26):
Yeah, which to your point, like the Packers, their offense
had been sticking up the joint. I think they had
sixteen points the previous two weeks combined, and it was like,
all right, we don't want this to be the get
right game. And then boom, there they go. They scored
twenty seven points, and you know, that's that's that's what
you were hoping wouldn't happen. You hope to kind of
keep them stuck in neutral on offense, and it didn't happen.
But I will say this just kind of that game

(14:49):
on a macro level, Like the story in my mind
with that game coming in was can this Giants offensive
line protect Jamis because now you're not you don't have
the athletic quarterback back there in Jackson Dart that can
get out of a pressure or run away from from
things if the pocket collapses. And I thought the offensive
line did a good job. Look, there were a couple

(15:09):
of sacks in the game, a couple of hits. There's
a couple of plays that happens. But dude, Micah Parsons
and Rashaun Gary on the other side, I thought the
tackles did a really nice job. You know, for the
most part, Jermaina Luminor you know, held up on the
right side. And Andrew Thomas. There were a bunch of
times he was one on one with Michael Parsons and
that was a fun battle to watch. But they Michael
Parsons didn't wreck the game. How many times did we

(15:31):
play the Dallas Cowboys and we could not block Micah Parsons,
We had zero answer for him. That was not the
case in this game. And I think you have to
give credit to the offensive line, and give credit to
Kafka and Carmen Brazillo and Shay Tierney and you know,
all the offensive coaches. Tim Kelly, who was the passing
game coordinator for finding a way to give help when

(15:52):
needed and make sure that those guys didn't wreck the game.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah. Absolutely, Giants fans, make sure you go and subscribe
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Plus you're from the best analysts covering Big Blue and
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(16:16):
a five star positive review for all of our Giants
podcast two A one nine through nine, four, five one
three is the phone number. Let's go to the phone
lines or lighten up. Starting with Jamie in New Jersey. Jamie,
welcome to the show. You're on Big Blue Kickoff Live
with Shawn and Madeline. Jamie, can you hear us? Oh

(16:36):
there you are. Hi, Welcome to the show. You you're
on live.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
I don't like that.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
You don't like that?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, thank you for Colin. What do you got going
on over there?

Speaker 7 (16:50):
Just chilling and growing New Jersey?

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Amazing? Amazing? Did you have a comment or a question?

Speaker 7 (16:59):
No?

Speaker 5 (16:59):
Man, No, all right, Well well, thank you for Collin
and for listening to the show, and have a have
a great shay. That's a first, you know, just calling
to just chilling and grilling. Okay, I mean, hey, listen,
it's a little chilly outside, but I respect that you're
committed to the grilling. Let's change it up. Then let's
go to line to Wilson in Roxbury. Wilson, welcome to

(17:21):
the show. You're on the Seawan and Madeline.

Speaker 8 (17:23):
Madeline, how you doing Sean? How are you met him?
And looking beautiful like always?

Speaker 5 (17:27):
Thank you?

Speaker 8 (17:28):
This is mostly for Sean. Uh, I'm probably going to
get him upset. Hey, what the hell, that's what I
cope for. We forget everybody.

Speaker 6 (17:35):
Well, you buttered up, Madeline, and now you're come and
bringing the heat to me. Okay, I see.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
You, Wilson.

Speaker 8 (17:42):
That'd be kind of weird. But now listening Sean, I'll
get in the sight. Yeah, the Giants had given a
blueprint to all the other thirty one teams how not
to want a franchise because there's six function and there's Giants.
As painful as that is for me to say, because

(18:03):
I love this thing for over forty five years, I mean,
first you know, start by but you know, you bring
back a head coach and general manager that won three
games nine games in two years, and you get rid
of the coach in the middle of the season because
you knew you made a mistake. Somehow, they still want
to keep you full run the general manager on top
of all that. Then I got to hear, you know,

(18:25):
and then all the rumors, you know, Brian Dabel was
a toxic environment and which nobody wanted to believe. But
nobody wakes up one morning and make stuff up up
something was there. Then I got to you know, Joe
Shane training, Jason pennag Hey, listen, you don't sign this deal,
don't pay your mortgage. I'm gonna cut you. You know,
crazy stuff like that that you know, bad teams. Let's

(18:46):
play out. Then put it on the side. Put that
on the side. Okay, put on the side. Then I
got to see basically, remember I longed, well the first
year of a militia every season he was in concussion protocol.
Then they see him at a concept. Nobody said not,
they're no repercussion whatsoever. Then I gotta, I gotta, I gotta,

(19:07):
I gotta read that this kid, uh, this kid Carter
was sleeping through a walk through. Whether it's true or
not true. I mean, nobody's just gonna wake up and
make that up. But I gotta see that. And then
on top of it, on top of all that, I
gotta see this kid that just have major legs surgery
on the TV acting like a fool. We're not show

(19:27):
around shoving people's days. That and a w W can't
make it up, Shun, you can't. This is this is,
this is why the Giants are the lasting stact with
the NFL until they get somebody here that's gonna say
you do that, you do that one more time, you
out of here, You do this one more time, you

(19:48):
out of here, you do It's the only way it's
gonna change. And for you to tell me that Joe
Shane should come back, I love you, I love you, Shan,
I love you, I love you. But if an insult
to every giant France. They have to clean house from
the kids that falls the towels, all the way all
the way up to the to the cook that cooks

(20:09):
the meals. It's got to be one hundred percent a
clean slate, because this is what happens when you have
a dysfunctional franchise that everybody the whole NFL laughed at
because of these things. And thank you for taking my course.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
All right, thank you for the call, Wilson, And listen,
I know this was directed that you, Sean, but I
have a couple of fact checks before we.

Speaker 6 (20:30):
Don't let the truth get in the way of a
good storry.

Speaker 5 (20:33):
Right exactly, he's.

Speaker 6 (20:34):
Unloading, you know, he had everything in the chamber right now. Yeah,
and he's got receipts and you know, he's obviously very passionate,
which we appreciate the passion, but love the passion. All right,
let's just chill.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
But first of all, so the the report of a
dual falling asleep, he clarified he wasn't asleep. He was
in treatment. And one of the big issues was, you know,
not issues, but changes when Mike Kafka took over as
interim head coach, he changed the schedule. The off day
is now Monday, it's a practice day Tuesday. There's a

(21:07):
lot of scheduling changes that have happened. And I think
it was a honest, rookie mistake of miscommunication or what
have you. He was in treatment at the time that
he was supposed to be out on the field, didn't
understand that because of the scheduling changes. Admitted and owned
up to that and had a conversation with Kafka about it,
and that was where that came down. Cam Skataboo at WWE,

(21:28):
he did have his shirt on Wilson, he was wearing
a Ranger's jersey. I feel like I tweeted this out
also the other day, and I feel like I told
a bunch of grown man that Santa isn't real because
I reminded everyone to take a deep breath and remember
just how well choreographed WWE is. It's not just an
actual fight, it's something that is planned in choreographed and

(21:49):
Scott was there with several teammates and members of the
coaching staff. Mike Kafka at his media availability today said that,
you know, he's good with it. The team knew about this,
The team organized. Is that the players being there. So yes,
I get that the optics of oh wow, he's hurt.
He wasn't in real harm's way, he wasn't in danger,

(22:10):
and what do you expect this guy? Yes, he had surgery,
he's in recovery. He's clear to you know, walk around
and live his life. Do you want him to just
sit in a dark room until he's fully healed to
play football or can he live his life a little bit.

Speaker 6 (22:24):
It's a tough one for me, yeah, because I've been
in that situation where I was a player that was hurt.
And I'll be damned if I'm a hurt player and
I'm going to be out like on the town, okay,
especially if I'm in a boot, Like I'm not going

(22:44):
to the club. I'm not going out, you know, like
walking around do it.

Speaker 7 (22:47):
Like.

Speaker 6 (22:48):
So, I don't think that Cam Skataboo should just hole
up and be in his apartment and not be able
to live his life and go do stuff. But you know,
I don't have an issue with him being at the
at the ww event. You know, I think he was
at the UFC event as well, and it's like, okay,
you know what, like go go do an event, like
if it was a movie, go to a movie, you

(23:09):
go see a Broadway show whatever, Like nobody I would not.
I'm not hammering him for that, and I'm not upset
about that, But I do think that there there's an
optic that I think you have to be aware of.

Speaker 7 (23:19):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
And there's also you know, it's one thing to go
to a show, and then it's another thing to kind
of be a part of it and you know, be
standing up and then kind of be involved in a
in a you know, a pseudo fracas, and you know
there's some physical element to it, you know. I don't
think it was a good look do. I think it's
you know, I'm not going to make a mountain of
a mole hill.

Speaker 7 (23:39):
Like.

Speaker 6 (23:39):
Look, this is a young kid that you know is
you know, went out with his teammates. I think there
was a lot of rookies that were there and they
kind of went as.

Speaker 5 (23:48):
A group beside him.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
Roy Robertson, Yeah, I think, look if they're if they
were if the Giants were eight and two right now,
this would be a non issue. Right when you're losing,
everything gets magnified. So I think just awareness with that.
You know, look, Jackson Dart was not there, that would
have been a very bad optic for him being income
cusure protocol and now you're out doing all this stuff.
Like you said about Milik neighbors, and I think those

(24:10):
are things that what's the common denominator with all that
league neighbors did a his rookie here, Jame's cadwoot he's
a rookie. Abdul Carter missed a you know, missed something
because he was in treatment, mister walkthrough. Those are things
that happen with young kids. And you know, I've got
a son as well, and you know what I do.
I correct behavior, all right. We make sure. Hey, look,

(24:31):
this is a learning opportunity. This is a lesson to
be where you can learn something. It's not a loss.
Al stands for learning, all right, and now we move
forward with it. We don't hold it. We don't. We're
not going to crucify them for this. This is not
you know, this is not an egregious act and oh
my gosh, you committed a crime and we're going to
string them up. No, all right, here, here's here's what
we expect of you. We want you to make good

(24:53):
decisions going forward. Sometimes the best way to learn that
is to make a bad decision and then you learn
from it. And you know, look, I don't think anybody
in this building is like, I can't believe that Campscotta
would do that or why hey, you know what what
it happened? All right, let's learn from it moving forward.
Let's maybe put ourselves in a better position going forward
and make a good decision. It doesn't need to be this,

(25:15):
you know, this Molotov cocktail that is just exploding now,
and that you know, the Giants have lost control of
this and that the players like.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
It's also important to remember that unlike UFC where Cam
when and he was there for Oakley and for a
brand partnership that he did this spirit is this WWE
thing that he went to with several teammates and again
several members of the coaching staff as well, was coordinated
by the team. So the team was a part of
this plan. This was an opportunity brought to them from

(25:46):
the New York Giants. This this is something that the organization.
You know, if they said if they didn't want to
support Camp Scattaboo going, they wouldn't have given him the
ticket and brought him along with them. You know, this
was something that has been planned and was coordinated by
people inside the building. This wasn't just him texting the
group chat, Hey you guys want to go do this?

Speaker 6 (26:06):
Yeah? I think the overriding theme and what Wilson was
just you know, spewing at us was he's fed up
with all of the all of the drama, and he's
fed up with all this stuff. And you know what
it's as a fan, I understand the frustration, and I
go back to this is this is the passion of
the fans. This is what what you love about the fans, Like,

(26:28):
don't lose that passion, will And you know, we get
that you're frustrated. I understand it. You know, we're not
firing the towel guys. We're not firing Jose like they're
not clean, like that man.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Is job security.

Speaker 6 (26:40):
These are the same people that a couple of years ago,
the Giants went into Minnesota and won a playoff game
with right with a brand new head coach, you know,
Daniel Jones and Isaiah Hodges, and a team that had
no business winning a playoff game did it with that
same coaching staff. So if you want to bash them
when things are going well, you also just have to
remember what they did with less talent just a few

(27:02):
years ago. Those are the same people. So I think,
you know, you just kind of have to you kind
of have to look at it as a whole part,
like these are whole people. They have They made some mistakes. Absolutely.
Are there some freckles and blemishes and moles, yes, okay,
but are they learning from that? That's what you have
to do now. The accountability aspect of it, I think
there's there's a number of different aspects of it. The

(27:24):
locker room account of but I want to be account
of my teammates, there's that part of it. I also
I want to be accountable with the Giants, like they
drafted me. These are the people, so I want to
make sure that I'm if I'm going out in a
team event like that, am I representing the Giants, my teammates,
my coaches, and the franchise in the right one. I
don't think Kim Scott would do anything wrong. So I think,
you know what, maybe maybe he could have said, I'm

(27:46):
not going to be a part of the physical aspect
of it. I'll be there, you know, alongside of it,
but I don't want to, you know, I don't want
to be physically involved in anything right now, given the
fact that I've got, you know, a boot on and
I just had surgery on my ankle. So yeah, that's
I think a learning lesson for him. Well, but we're
not going to put him on the last fear exactly.

Speaker 5 (28:06):
And it's and to your point about Jackson Dart knot
being there, there's a difference between Dart and Scott and
the fact that Dart is in concussion protocol with a
chance to play next week. If he was going to
that but just missed the game the day prior, that
would look bad because it's okay, you're not well enough
to play in a game, but you're well enough to
go do that. Scott has been ruled out for this season,
like he is not going to get back on the
field to help this team. He's on ir he is

(28:27):
not going to It's not that he's doing this that's
impeding him getting back on the field. This man wants
more than anything to be back on the field. And
also too, there was a barricade in between the lower
bodies of these guys, so it's like his foot was safe,
he was in a good position. They're not going to
put him in a position to injure him further. But
I do understand the optics, especially for a guy like

(28:47):
Wilson who's just upset that he wants to see the
team having more success on the field. And to your point,
when that success on the field doesn't happened. Everything else
gets magnified.

Speaker 6 (28:56):
I just had a memory kind of come back. Maybe
it's probably because the wrestling is the common denominator here.
There was an issue or a story back when the
Chicago Bulls were in their heyday and they went picked
up Dennis Robin. It was kind of like there it
might have been their last championship, and Robin was a
wild child. This is back when he was just uncontrollable.

(29:20):
He was out of his mind, and he flew to
Las Vegas and was a part of like a wrestling
event in Vegas during the NBA season, and like he
was in the ring like during the season, and there
was like this whole big issue about you know, oh
my gosh, what should he be doing that. It was
kind of like Robin was kind of held to a
different standard. He was the wild child, so he wasn't

(29:41):
expected to be buttoned up like everybody else. But you know,
the story from what I hear is that Robin was
in Vegas and Jordan flew to Vegas and got him
on the plane to get him back to play the
next game. And that is you know, nobody made a
big deal about it because they won and because they

(30:04):
were they were winning. So again, like I said, because
the Giants are losing right now and it's the season,
feels lost again. That is why there's even more heat
on all this stuff. So you know, I think you
kind of, look, let's let it count, Let's let the
Embers kind of, you know, chill out a little bit.
I know everybody's kind of emotional with all that stuff

(30:26):
and with what's going on, and I get it, and
it's again it's all derived from passion. But you know,
that was that was kind of something that creeped up,
and it was like nobody, nobody had the issue with
Robin and with the Bulls doing that because they were winning.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
Because they were winning, and they were taking care of
business on the court, and I think, you know, everyone
knows their own limits and their own what they're capable
of as individuals and has their own priorities in order,
and then you know, you kind of go from there.
The YouTube commenter Emmanuel Mora wants to know how I
got these concussions speaking of playing hurt, and so I'm
not going to give you a full account of all

(30:58):
of them because there are a lot, but the very
first one was when I was a kid, I was
sitting on a tile floor and somebody pulled my legs
and I went like that hit the back of my
head and was really really hard. And then some from
a car accident. I went through a windshield one time,
that was not fun. I got hit in the head
with a football. That was a little bit that. Yeah,
that was here. And most recently sometimes I faint, so

(31:22):
some of them have come from that, And most recently
I started the season with a couple of staples in
the back of my head because I fainted and hit
my head on a rock and TKO but not a TKO,
just a KO for that one. Anyway, we make light
of it because it has to be funny, so it's
not scary, but it happens, and as somebody who's experienced
several of these, you kind of go through the motions

(31:45):
and you know your own limits in a way. And
I'm fortunate that my job does not entail getting hit
by three hundred pounds men, because if you are concussed
and you hit your head again, that can be very dangerous.
And so fortunately I just you know, the lights and
the cameras and all that, and sometimes I'm better than others.
I remember the football one I show with you.

Speaker 6 (32:06):
We had you on the d L for a while
after that, and the football one. That one, I feel
like that one lingered for a while.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
It did.

Speaker 6 (32:12):
Think the other one that happened in the summertime, so
I think you had a little you had a little
more time to recover.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Yeah, And at that point I was an old, wily
vet with dealing with those symptoms. I'm like, all right,
let's power through.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
But off the hat.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
On that one, it did end up looking like roadkill.
It was a little bloody. It was my Kurt Shilling
sock moment, though. It was pretty good.

Speaker 8 (32:31):
Now.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
I remember that that football one. I did a show
with you, Sean, and there was a moment I was like,
I'm good, I'm clear, and Dawn Spurling kept looking at me.
He's like, are you sure? You look a little glassy? Lights,
And then we got on the set and I just
remember looking at you, just like, please keep talking.

Speaker 6 (32:47):
The lights, the lights, lights, kind of all of it.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
Yeah, So would not wish that on anyone. It's a
little bit more than a headache. But again, Jackson dart
out on the field. You can see videos of him
uh stretching on social media right now and working his
way back to a one nine three four five one
three is the phone number. I just want to remind
you all the Giants official connected TV streaming app. Giants

(33:12):
TV brings original video content and game highlights on demand
and direct big Blue fans. Giants TV is free on
Apple TV, Roku, and Amazon Fire TV, and the Giants
Mobile Applet's head back to the phone lines. What a day, Sean.
Not only do we get Wilson, but we also get Charlie.
We are getting some all time BBK callers on the

(33:32):
show today. Charlie in Maine. Welcome to the show. Thanks
for calling in.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
How you doing, Hey, Madeline? How are you?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Heye?

Speaker 4 (33:41):
Like this is like tag team here your worst nightmare? Hey,
I get a question for it? Made one. I saw
your podcast. It was great. I appreciate it. You do
a great job with it. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (34:00):
Try A big fan of her playbook. We just recorded
another episode this morning.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
Oh did you? Hey? My question is can you can
you fake it?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You know maybe that you've got symptoms, but somebody like
dark who really wants to play can he fake it
and say? Noah, I don't have a headache. Now I'm good,
you know, I mean, well, how do they how do
they know that this guy is telling them the truth?
Or do they take brain scans and figure it out
that he isn't.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
I I would like in a concussion to a sprained ankle, right. Plus,
when it first happens, you're like, how that hurts. But
this before the swelling kicks in, You're like, I can
move my ankle. It looks normal, it feels normal. However,
there are physical symptoms that when they bring you in
for a concussion test, including in your pupils and the
way your eyes move, that can tell even if you

(34:51):
say I'm fine, and you say you feel fine, if
your eyes and your pupils move in a certain way,
that is a signal that there is something too, more there.
But what I would say too is, you know, sometimes
when it first happens before the swelling kicks in, because
the concussion is essentially when your brain hits the side
of your skull and your brain swells so much like
a sprained ankle. Before it gets fully swollen, you still

(35:13):
have a little bit more of your faculties in, a
little bit more of your understanding until that sets in
and then it starts to be like, oh, now it
feels you know, once the ankle swells up or your head,
not actual head, but your brain, and that's when a
little bit of those symptoms start to set in. So
maybe not immediately, but you know, shortly thereafter. I mean,

(35:33):
Victor Kruz will tell a story sometimes when you know,
he got hit in a game and he got called
over to do the concussion test and they were asking
him all these questions and he was getting all the
answers right, and so they're like, okay, great, you're good
to get back in the game. And he goes what
game and they're like, okay, maybe not. And so sometimes
you know, you're like, oh yeah, I can tell you
what year it is, I can tell you who the

(35:54):
president is, I can tell you what you know, what
my middle name is, all that kind of stuff. Because
these things come to you. But there are certain things
that will happen but mostly physiologically, that a medical trained
staff will look at you and we'll be able to see, okay,
there's something wrong, which is when you know, even if
you come over the sideline and you're like, yeah, my
head hurts, and I can answer all these questions. Right,
there are physical signs that will show Okay, maybe it's

(36:17):
not safe for you to get back in the game.

Speaker 6 (36:19):
Yeah, listen, Charlie, let's preface this whole conversation with we
are non doctors, but we do not a doctor. But
I did stay at a holiday and express last night. Look
that the concussion thing. This is why it's such a
tough thing to handle because it's not like any other
injury like what Matt was talking about with an ankle
or you're talking about brain scans that there are no
brain scans that you can do for a concussion. The

(36:40):
only way you can really test the brain is post mortem.

Speaker 5 (36:43):
So there there are You do get a cat scan
to see if there's any brain bleed.

Speaker 6 (36:48):
Well, I mean, if you have a severe concussion, you
have cast. But they're not giving cat scans to everybody
that has a concussion or you know that thinks that
they may have had a concussion, that's and that's not
happening on the medical tent or you know at the
game day. But you know, it's similar to like a
field sobriety test, right, so like you get pulled over
and they have protocols that they go through to see

(37:08):
is your brain functioning like it normally would. So there
are certain things that they will go through, like Matt
One is talking about. But I think the today's player
is different. You know, twenty years ago you would not
go to the to the trainer and say, you know,
something's not off or my head hurt like that was
That was not how we handle it. We are. We
have progressed and we are in a totally different area

(37:29):
when it comes to TBI and when it comes to
concussions and the protocol. So there is much more self
reporting now and I think that players are more honest
with their symptoms because they realize that the long term
damage that they could be doing. Now it's different than
playing through man. I think, I you know, Aaron Rodgers
is going to play through a fractured risk. You know
you're playing through a high inkle spring or an MCL.

(37:50):
You know, these are ligaments. These are things where you
can actually MRI them, you can X ray them, and
you can find out here is what has happened. Okay,
what is the percentage of that. You know, I can
make this worse or this can be a long term thing.
So I think it's in a totally different environment with that.
Now the concussion stuff, everybody responds differently. Everybody reacts efferently.

(38:11):
But for Jackson Dart, clearly he was not himself after
it happened. Now you know, something happens, boom, you kind
of get your belt rung. You're like, all right, I'm good.
You go out, you run a couple more plays, and
then maybe you go to the sidelines and now you're starting,
You're like, you know what I feel off, something feels weird,
and they will even mention it's like I noticed that
he was acting a little bit off, a little bit strange.

(38:32):
So when people see those behaviors, boom, all right, now
you're into it and now they're evaluating you. The one
thing that I know the NFL does do is every
player before the start of the season, when you take
anal physical, there is a there is a neuropsych exam
that you take that tests your reaction time and they
go through and they get a baseline. So once you
have come back to your facility, they will put you

(38:54):
through that same test to see where are you has
your baseline changed? Is is you know, are there things
that are showing up that is abnormal from where your
baseline was when you had this exam a couple of
months ago. So those are all things that they take
into play, and those are ways that they could try
to figure out. All right, there's clearly been an injury.

(39:15):
To what extent, we don't really know, but it's all
symptom based. The other thing that I will add is
on every sideline in every NFL game, there is a
neurosurgeon and that is mandatory by the NFL, and he
is on the sideline for these exact situations. If there
is a head injury, he is the one that goes
over there, and he is the one that assesses where

(39:37):
they're at. He's the one that's in the medical tent
and evaluating all that. So look, the NFL has definitely
made this a priority to them, and I think anytime
you see a player that is exhibiting those type of symptoms.
Now we now know that these things are cumulative, so
if you have one, you are more susceptible to having

(39:58):
another one if you have not gotmpletely healed and recovered
from the previous one. So I think that's where we're
at with this situation with Jackson.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Dark Yeah, because he was in the blue tent four
times for concussions.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
Right, But that doesn't mean but that doesn't mean he
had a concussion every time. So sometimes you get a hit,
there's a big collision, and the referees down on the
field have to say, hey, you know what, they get
signal from the league. Look, there was a big hit.
All right, you're going to the medical tent. You get
a concussion. There was no concussion, right, there was no
issue there. But because there was a big hit and

(40:31):
the referees saw something, you could have been holding your arm,
you could have been down. You know, I got the
wind knocked out of me. But they see a big
hit and they see a player get up, and now
you go to the medical tent and you go through
that check and you're fine, You're good. So even though
you went in the tent, it doesn't necessarily mean that
you had a concussion or that you know, there was
a hindle.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
So why when he went into the tent and he
came out and they let him out and then he
went and played two more ways, So somebody in the
ted didn't figure it out this guy had a concussion.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
No, that's not accurate, because he, like I said, they
went through the test, the field test, all right, and
he showed no symptoms, no signs. And then he went
out there and started running around. And now I was like, oh,
you know what, Okay, now that I'm running around, I
feel something feels off. And so to Madelin's point, boom
it happened. You go over there, you know, you're going
through all the tests. There was nothing revealed itself.

Speaker 5 (41:23):
At that moment. It looks fine.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
Then it kind of all right, hey, you know what,
now that I'm moving around, now that I'm calling the plays,
and now that i'm I have to kind of you know,
recall things or I've got to speak and verbalize. The
more that he did that, the more that you know,
now of a sudden, the symtoms reveal themselves.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
So, Madeline, what you're saying is sometimes it takes a
little while, so the brain starts swelling up. Why why
why don't they not let the player go back in
for at least a series to find out if that's
going to happen to that player? Why do they let
them go right back in two minutes later?

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Well again, like I'm I'm no medical, I'm no doctor,
And I think also to you know, sometimes maybe the
play that it happened. Like, for example, how many times
have you been like, wow, I feel really sick. Let
me take a COVID test and see if it's COVID
and then it's not COVID, and then maybe a week
later it is COVID. Did you always have COVID or
did you get it later on? I don't know. You
know sometimes that you feel that you know, there's a

(42:23):
lot of nuance to it. It's an imperfect science, but
the NFL is doing its best to make sure that
the players are protected and put in a position to
be able to self report too in a safe space
of like Okay, maybe we got this, maybe we didn't.
It's an imperfect science, all of it. And you know,
whether you hold them out, oh, because you know there's
going to be another situation where a guy got the

(42:44):
wind knocked out of him, and what do you want
to do? Just hold him out for a whole quarter
just in case.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Oh, I just say a whole quarter, right, you can,
you can play. It's safe. But anyway, that's not.

Speaker 7 (42:53):
Why I really called.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
But since it was brought up, I just you know,
but my my main thing is with Whins done, he
had four plays that should have been intercepted. They were
interception turnover worthy place the guys dropped it, Green Bay
dropped it.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
If they just caught.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
Two of those, this game.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Wouldn't even have been close. So you know, you can say, Winston,
you know, the left of the guys, and he throws
it and he lets them go after the ball, and
da da da. But if he he should have had
five interceptions of maybe if they were counting the last
one as the fourth, I don't know, but they he
definitely could have had four easily picks in that game,

(43:34):
and this game would not even have been close. But
that's all I wanted to say about that that you know, the.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
Pas were struggling to catch the ball on both sides
of the ball because they also had about three or
four drops. I think had a couple of drops.

Speaker 7 (43:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:46):
Look, we all saw those plays too, and it was like,
oh my gosh, we got lucky, and.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
You know what, like that exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
So you know, I just think, you know, I like Winston,
I mean, I like the guy, but is he going
to change the direction of this team? We're headed for
two and eleven.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
Nobody said he was headed. Nobody said he was, but
he was playing because Jackson Darr was hurt. So you
know what, I thought he did a good job. Like look,
every game Jameis Winston, he has shown us he's going
to make a couple of throws that are dicey and
that's kind that's just the way he plays.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
Yeah, all right, Charlie, thanks so much for the call.
We got a couple more to get to before we
run out of time here. Giants fans, with another impactful
draft and free agency class in the books. That means
it's full steam ahead to the twenty twenty five season,
which we're in the midst of. Take your fandom to
the next level with the season ticket membership. Kept all
the action at MetLife Stadium with an exciting home schedule

(44:37):
on the horizon, and with the membership, you'll also stay
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Giants dot com slash tickets to a one nine three
nine four five one three. Let's go back to the phones.
Joe in Connecticut. Joe, welcome to the show. You're a
big blue Kickoff Live.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Hey, thanks for taking my out. Madeline and Shauna loved
the show. I'm a long time giant fans seventy two
years old. Go back to black and white TV white too, Frankitford,
Sam Huff and I don't know if you remember, Kyle wrote,
but Scatt has his number. He was one of my
favorite players, number forty four. I love that, but I
wanted him to make two points. I played safety in

(45:23):
high school and junior college, and you know, I got
concussed a few times to go off the sideline. The
doctor would say, how many fingers do we have up?
Give you some ammonia and go back in, and uh,
you know it's I don't know these players. They I
noticed a couple of couple of end zone plays, like
on a three yard line. I was watching some of

(45:43):
these games. They shoulder bump instead of rapping. How are
they supposed to get a guy down in the three
yard line shoulder bumping? He stead to bump right into
the end zone. You know, these guys' legs are strong,
you know. And the second point I wanted to know.
I wanted to know the two push. If they vote
that down, okay, does that mean the scrum. That means

(46:06):
no more alignment pushing. I mean that this is not football. Man.
Guy catches the ball on the twenty and you push
him to the goal to five yard line. I mean
that's ridiculous. Man, What am I watching here?

Speaker 5 (46:20):
Yeah, it's definitely a play that has created some controversy.
Thanks so much to call Joe, and thanks for being
such a long time fan and listener.

Speaker 6 (46:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:30):
Hard to officiate.

Speaker 6 (46:31):
Yeah, I mean with regards to all the things that
you mentioned. You look, the game has changed obviously from
you know, I grew up the same way. You know,
like you got your belt wrong, you know, like you
saw stars, took a couple of seconds and then you're
back in the game. You know, things have progressed. We
know now more than we knew back then. You know,
just like when I was a kid, we didn't have
car seats. You know, now we know more, right so

(46:54):
we you know, it wasn't that we were negligent back then.
We just didn't know what we know now, and we have,
you know, better science and better data and better awareness
with regard to tackling. Dude, I'm with you. I don't
understand that. I mean, I coach my son's football team,
and I'm trying to get them to wrap up. That's
one of the things we talk about. Bite the ball,
wrap up around the hips, you know, don't you don't
come in there and just shoulder a guy and try

(47:15):
to knock them down. So I don't understand that too.
It's frustrating to see that as well, because I know
these guys have been coached up to wrap and they're
just not doing it. So you know, look, I find them.
You know, if I'm a defense coordinator, Look, if you
come up and you make a hit and you don't
wrap up, I'm gonna find you. Like you can find
a way. Like we'll find out how much it really
means to you when we start taking money from you.
With the final point about the toush push, Look, I've

(47:37):
hated the quarterback sneak my entire life because as a center,
it's everybody ends up on top of you. It's like
a pile up, it's a mosh pit. And you know,
I've sprained an ankle on quarterback sneak before, guys have
gotten hurt. But it is part of football, you know.
I think the Eagles have taken it to a whole
nother level with making it a rugby like play. You know,
I think that there is a science to it, you know,

(47:58):
because clearly they do it better than anybody else. They
have found a way to do it better than anybody else.
They clearly practice it, they coach it, they have it,
they have it down to a science, and nobody can
seem to stop it. It is frustrating because you know,
it's like the crane kick that Miyagi Todd Danielson like,
if done properly, no one can defend. And we still
have not been able to defend it. So I don't

(48:19):
you know, I think we have to be careful, like
are people upset because nobody can stop it? Or are
people upset because people are getting hurt?

Speaker 5 (48:25):
Defense that did stifle it on three straight plays football?

Speaker 6 (48:30):
Yeah, I mean that, you know, that was kind of
like the unicorn opportunity. But I think when you look
at it, like people are saying, we got to ban
this play from football? Okay? Are we trying to ban
it because we don't like it? Visually? We don't like
it optically, we don't like it because it's happening to
our teams and we can't seem to stop it. That's
not a reason a ban of play if you can
prove scientifically in the NFL has looked at they look

(48:52):
at injuries, all right. That's why the kickoff rule has
changed multiple times. That's why they've changed the way that
field goals and pats are handled. You know, you can't
rush the long snapper and you can't push on block
like you used to be able to do. So you
can't do that on defense, and I know there's some
argument about why can we do it on offense? So
you have to look at if there's an injury, If

(49:13):
this is definitely creating a higher percentage of injury, then
I think it's a no brainer. But I don't know
that that data is there yet and I don't know
what that looks like. But I think when you look at.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
That, and also the fact that it's hard to officiate,
and as we've seen in that Giants game where they
called that blue the whistle for forward progress, and there's
questions around that or the questions around okay, are they
jumping early? Who's jumping early? Can you really see who's
jumping early? With how close everyone is in that scrum?
When you see you know, on the national broadcast the
cameras zooming in and showing a guard perhaps crossing that

(49:44):
line of scrimmage a little before the ball is snapped.
Those moments where it makes it challenge to a challenging
to officiate it because much like injuries, the NFL's you
know one a priority is the integrity of the game
as well, and if they can't keep the officiating to
keep it in the integrity there, that is the only
other thing that I could see being a cause race.

Speaker 6 (50:06):
I hear what you're saying about that, and that may
be part of the conversation, but I will say this
based on the track road of the NFL, they don't
care about being tough to officiate because some of the
things that they have allowed to happen as new rule
changes has made it really hard on these officials. And
you know, I feel like they are in a damn
if we do dan if we don't kind of scenario

(50:28):
a lot of times, way too often, and it is
it's hard to be an official and to call these
plays in real time. So, yeah, that play with the scrum,
you can't see the ball, it's hard to really determine
all that stuff. But I think the conversation with what
you're saying about. I don't think they're going to ban
the toush push, but I think the conversations are, you know,

(50:48):
in that situation, because you brought up if a receiver
catches the ball, say you're on the ten yard line,
and you're tight end catches the ball on the two
yard line, and now as an office line and I'm
hustling down there and I push the pile into the
end zone. That is different than the tush push or
than the quarterback sneak. And the reason why is because
it happens out in the field of play. So if

(51:10):
there is a tweak to this whole, you know, do
we change the way you can do quarterback sneak? Maybe
it is that you cannot aid a runner if that
runner is on the line of scrimmage. You cannot do
it in the backfield. You can't do it at the
line of scrimmage. But if it happens outside of the
line of scrimmage, outside of the quarterback tackle box, if

(51:31):
that happens out there in the field of play, then
that is allowed. So those are some of the tweaks
that I know they're having conversations about. Do we limit it,
and do we put the verbage in there that it's
allowed out in the regular field of play with a receiver,
tight end or running back that has caught a pass,
or even a quarterback that has scrambled out and now
is running. Now, can you aid that runner across the
first down or the end zone for a touchdown as

(51:54):
opposed to happening behind the center on the line of scrimmage.
We're now sudden. There's a huge pile up. So look,
it's a conversation that I think is going to continue.
Do I expect them to ban that play?

Speaker 7 (52:06):
No?

Speaker 6 (52:06):
I don't think so, because I don't think that the
data is there from an injury standpoint for them to
say we're going to take this out of the game.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Yeah, I can see that, and you know we'll see it.
I'm sure we'll be brought up in league meetings in
this offseason and that conversation will continue, But how it'll
shake out remains to be seen to A one nine
three nine four five one three. Let's go back for
a final call. Logan in New Jersey, Logan, thanks for
calling in. You're on Big Blue Kickoff Live. Thank you.

Speaker 7 (52:33):
So, what I want to know is why has there
not been a change at the defensive coaching position yet?

Speaker 6 (52:42):
Great question. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (52:46):
You have, you have amazing players. I feel like coach
Shane Bowen, great guy, don't disrespect, but I feel like
he almost should have gone when Davile went. Is there
a reason as to why, you know, I think should
stay if they clean house?

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Do you think one of us?

Speaker 6 (53:05):
Neither one of us have that answer. We don't know why.
We don't know what the conversations were. You know, I'll
speak from previous situations where I've heard that, you know,
a head coach comes in on a Monday after a
loss and they are told you need to fire your
offensive coordinator or you need to fire you a defensive
coordinator and they have said I'm not doing that, and

(53:28):
then they said, okay, well then you're fired. So I've
heard of that happening. I don't know what went down.
I don't know what the conversations were, but I think
there's evidence on both sides, Like, if you wanted to
make a change, I think there's evidence out there that
you would be justified in doing that. I think if
you were going to make a head coaching change, what
you don't want to do is make a head coaching

(53:50):
change and a defensive coordinator change. And now we have
now now we're scrambling in multiple areas. You know, look,
I think you know they're they're the NFL is tough,
and I know everybody wants to you know, hey, we know,
fire this guy, fire that guy. Well listen, I'm I'm
never been a fan of firing a head coach during

(54:10):
the NFL season, And the reason why is because when
you fire a head coach, somebody else has to do
his job. Somebody else has to step up and now
do their job and this new job. And you know
that that's tough. That makes it tough on the coaches.
They're already stressed out, they're already you know, not sleeping
and you know, working crazy hours and you know they're

(54:30):
grinding their way through it. So you know, there there
is something to be said for that. You know, I
don't know what went down with the conversations, and we
don't know, you know what, Maybe they're their conversations were
about here's where we're at, here's where we need to
see improvement, or this is happening or you know, I
don't know, but you know, I think that a lot
of people were you know, look, there was a lot

(54:52):
of people that came up to me and said, look,
I was surprised that it was dable On, not Shane Bowen.
And you know, I don't I don't think, you know,
I don't think either one was the right way, you know,
And I don't think either way, you know, you could
say either way it wasn't the wrong way either. A
lot of times, you know, you have to make a
change just to kind of put everybody else on notice too,
and players included. So look, there's some validity what you're saying.

(55:16):
You know, I don't think either one of us are
really privy enough to answer to you why this happened
or why this didn't happen.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
All right, Do you believe Bowen deserves to come back
next year?

Speaker 6 (55:30):
Next year? Well, look, I mean I don't think anybody
knows what's happening next year. Like what you know, it's
let's get through this season and let's figure stuff out.
You know, there could be a whole new staff here,
you know, so that I think it's more premature to
single out anybody on the staff as far as who's
going to be here next year.

Speaker 5 (55:49):
Because nobody knows right and oftentimes too a new head
coach comes in and they bring in their own people,
top to bottom, so remains to be seen who will stay,
who will go, what the status will be with that.
I will say this, it's kind of a I alwa
say it's above my paid grade to make that decision.

Speaker 6 (56:05):
Yeah, that's not that's not up to us. But I
will say this. Brian Billick, who I used to work
with and did a ton of shows with, he was
a great coach. He's a great man. He used to
have this saying the things they hire you for are
the things they fire you for. And I never understood
it the first time he said it to me, and
then the more I kind of marinated and he explained

(56:25):
it to me. You know, Shane Bowen was brought here
to stop the run right when he was hired as
defensive coordinator. Was man this guy when he was a Tennessee.
They did a great job stop in the run. They
were graded ren zone. All right, those are two of
the things that we have not been good at. So
you know, the things that we hired you for were
this was supposed to be your strength and when they're not.

(56:46):
Now that's those are the reasons why you get fired.
So you know that that happens in the NFL all
the time. You see offensive coaches that, oh my gosh,
this guy's phenomenal. He's a you know, a heck of
an offensive coordinator. We're bringing you here to be a
great off as a coach, and the offense sucks, and
it's like, all right, well that's why you got fired.
You know, we hired you because you were a good
offensive coach and your offense is the worst. So you know,

(57:09):
those are those are things that I know are frustrating
because that was kind of Shange Bowen's calling cards. We're
a man, We're gonna be great against the run, and
we're gonna be great in the red zone, and that
just has not transpired.

Speaker 5 (57:21):
Yeah, yeah, and thanks for the call, Logan, thanks for
calling in. You know, listen, that the thing is is
that we got another opportunity this week. We haven't really
touched on the fact that we're playing the Lions on Sunday,
but you know that game will be happening and Giants
Lions in Detroit. It's a team with you know, a
lot of offensive firepower and.

Speaker 6 (57:43):
Not exactly the team that you want to play. If
when you're hanging by a thread and whatever, we're struggling
to score points, Hey, if you.

Speaker 5 (57:50):
Can stop them on fourth down. Maybe we worked for
the Eagles last week, so maybe that.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Were they owe for four, oh for five and fourth down. Yeah,
I mean this Detroit Lions team, you know, look, this
is I mean, Dan Campbell has built the Detroit Lions
in a way that I think a lot of teams
are aspiring to beat, you know, like they are just
a tough team. We know them very well. We you know,
had joint practices with them a year ago in training camp.

(58:19):
They are very physical, their physical team up front. They've
got a really good offensive line. They've got two studs
what is it, Sonic and Knuckles and David Montgomery and
Jamior Gibbs. So this is gonna be a big challenge
for a Giants defense that is struggling. I think the
other thing that kind of really sticks out of you
is the Giants play more man defense than anybody else.

(58:40):
Jared Goff has been an assassin against man defense for
the last couple of years. He's been one of the
best quarterbacks in the league, and he's got an unbelievable
touchdown interception ratio against man coverage. So this will be
a very big test for this Giants defense. And then offensively,
you know Aiden Hutchinson, you know, I know he's coming
off of that, you know, grotesque injury from last year,

(59:02):
but you know he's got seven and a half sacks.
He's a stud. This is going to be another good
challenge for this Giant's offense. And you know you mentioned it.
Playing in Detroit on the road, there will be elements there.
The crowd is going to be you know, they're going
to be on their feet the entire time. It's going
to be loud, You're going to be in solid count.
You know, when we always say you go on the road,
you got to start fast. So if it's Jackson Dart

(59:24):
or if it's Jamis, you know, the offense has got
to do what they did last week against Green Bay.
Score you score a touchdown on the opening drive, all right, Now,
all of a sudden, you know, you kind of people
are sitting on their hands a little bit more and
you kind of.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
Give yourself a chance, right and you know, hopefully it'll
be a big challenge for both sides of the ball,
especially the defense, which you know, we're watching guys work
their way back from injury. Cave On Thibodeau not out
of practice today, according to reports. Not spotted out there,
Darius Slayton, Pauls and a Debo working on the side,
Pulse and a DBA of course dealing with that knee injury.

(59:56):
Was warming up before the game on Sunday against the Packers.
Wasn't ab to go? Was a scratch. Then we'll see
what his status is.

Speaker 6 (01:00:02):
Yeah, yeah, that'll be big because Amano Saint Brown is
a stud yeah, you know, and Jameis Williams, Jamison Williams
is a deep threat on every play.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
Yeah, I think the biggest hurdle for James and Williams
is his touchdown. Selly's Are they going to cause a
flag again?

Speaker 6 (01:00:19):
It should be an easy fix.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. All right, that's a wrap for
our show today. Thanks for tuning in to a Wednesday
edition A Big Blue Kickoff Live brought to you by Cadillac,
the official luxury vehicle of the New York Football Giants.
We've been coming to you live from the Giants Podcast Studio,
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(01:00:42):
com slash Podcast. You can see an archive of our
show there, as well as on the Giants YouTube page.
For the Super Bowl champion Shawan O'Hara and for the
war Eagles Super Bowl champion coach Sean O'Hara, I'm Madeline Burke.
Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time.