Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/21 | Giants vs Lions Preview

John Schmeelk and Matt Citak preview the Giants vs Lions game, talk about Jameis Winston getting his second start, and take calls from fans. 

0:00 - Quarterback news

5:00 - Lions preview

20:00 - Calls

33:00 - Run defense

45:00 - Roster building chat

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

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Do it because you're on Giants dot com.

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Speaker 1 (00:14):
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Speaker 3 (00:15):
Seventeen fourteen the Finals one Tuck Down, we all world tamper.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Let's go on Dog Happy Friday, Everybody Walking in the
Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillact, the official luxury
vehicle the Giants. I am John Schmelk. I am John.
Nice to make you. I've been hosting the show, Matt
Sietex since the offseason. I don't think it's been a while.
Good to have you. Yeah, that's everything. Nice to sit
next to you up here, absolutely taking your phone calls

(00:44):
A two one nine three nine four five one three. So,
despite the assumption that a lot of people made that
Jackson Dorro will be starting on Sunday, we got work
from Mike Kafka back an hour ago that he is
still not out of concussion protocol and he'll continue to
go through it. But in the meantime, Jameis Winston will
be the starting quarterback this week against the Lions. If
he cleared protocol, Jackson would be starting. He is not

(01:06):
cleared protocol yet, so it'll be Jameis Winston. And we
talked about this during media availabilities in the locker room yesterday, Matt.
The fact that he went a second straight day as
a non contact kind of put the little antenna up
for me that something might be up here and maybe
he's not going to quite be ready, because usually once
you start down that advancement path, you like to see
the player continue. And once he kind of repeated that

(01:28):
same step again, it told me that, all right, maybe
it's not as close as we think it is. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
For I feel like for every other guy that has
gotten a concussion on the Giants, at least this season,
when we saw him, that person return as a limited participant.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Non contact one day.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
The next day they progressed to full Like I think
the last guy that was JMS happened a couple of
weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, So when.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Obviously, well, first last Friday, the fact that Jackson was
just out there at all, you know, he's listed as
a DMP last fear, but the fact that he was
out there at all, you know, I think everyone took
that as an encouraging side, and then to get back
on the practice field as a limited participant on Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I think at that point, at.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Least forty eight hours ago, sort of set us up
with the expectation that Jackson would be back. But as
you said yesterday, the fact that he was limited again,
which before we even got the injury report. Just the
way that Kafka kind of spoke about the situation made
it sound like, you know, he had that Jackson had
not progressed to that next level, and then sure enough
that was the case. And then yet today he just

(02:33):
came out and said Jackson has been ruled out.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
He's not through the concussion protocol. He's still working through it.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Kafka made it very clear that this decision for Jackson
to be out and Jamis to start was purely based
on the fact that he is not.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Through the concussion protocol.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
It was not based on, you know, giants being two
to nine and just wanting to be cautious. Kafka made
it clear Jackson has not been clear to return to
the field and that is why Jamis is starting.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, and look, this stuff can take time.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Stroud just missed his third strike in Yeah, he could
have got a concussion. Now a little different. They played
on Thursday this week. The Giants play on Monday next week,
so that's a four day difference, so that could be
a big difference in terms of concussion. So we'll see
how it goes with Jackson next week to see whether
or not he's going to play against the New England Patriots.
So let's go through this matchup here, Matt and well

(03:23):
real quick, yes please, just because it kind of got
breezed over even during the media session, but did not
rule out a few other players. A couple of notable guys.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Paul Sinadibo got ruled out, which which we expectite frankly
after what happened pregame last week and then not participating
in practice, that's not a surprise. Keevon Thibodeau was also
ruled out, uh that one, and we haven't really gotten
much word about what is going on there. We just
know he's suffered a shoulder injury and we have not
seen him on the practice. Yeah, he's yet to practice,
so it was clearly trending in that direction as well.

(03:54):
And then Thomas Fadoni, who's ruled out. He suffered a
foot injury. I believe it was in Week ten against
the Bears, the one game that he played significant action
in offensively at least, and then it was just those four, right,
those are the guys that he ruled out. Yes, we'll
see when the final injury report comes out. And about
two hours or so.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
He's seen the indicat. He feels okay about Slayton and Nuban.
He thinks they have a chance to make it.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Back for yeah fame fact Slayton was limited yesterday, I
would say trending in the right direction. Obviously, with hamstring
injuries and especially to wide receivers, you never know, but
he seems to be trending in the right direction.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
And when Nuban back, I wonder if we're going to
see some more threes if Nuban comes back, I'm wondering
if we might see some more three safety stuff with
belting closer to the box. You know, they're short at linebacker.
Maybe that's a way to get one of their safeties
on the field and have one of the linebackers off.
So something to keep an eye on as the Giants
take on the lines this week. So Matt, I'm going
to be just pretty straightforward about this. This might be

(04:49):
the Giant's toughest game they're going to play all year.
They're on the road against a really good team. The Lions,
look at any metric, are top ten in both offense
and defense. Don't have many teams in the league that
are that this year they are. You try to find
the one big weakness to exploit, it's hard to find one.

(05:10):
Maybe the interior of their offensive line is one of them.
But still, they're just a very very well coached, good
all around team that can run it, that can pass it,
that can defend the run, they can defend the pass,
and it's hard, and they're very aggressive in how they
play on both sides of the ball. They're very physical.
It's hard to find an area here to you to

(05:32):
attack if you're the Giants trying to figure out whey
to win this week in Detroit.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, I mean, we all know the Lions offense has
been very good for years now, but I look this up.
I did not realize quite how good they have been.
Since the start of the twenty twenty two season. They
have been a top five offense in points and yards
every year, this year being the fourth consecutive season that
they have reached this feat. Obviously, we're still got six

(05:57):
games to go, but their offense is just a juggernaut,
and you know, it starts with the run game.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
They don't make it any secret that they want to
run the football, they want to run it early, they
want to run it often, and quite frankly, when you
have that offensive line and the talented running back do
with that they have, how can you blame them? Now?
No Sam Laporta. So that makes it a little bit
different at tight end, yes, for sure.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
That and it does take away one of Jared Goff's
premiere pass catchers, but it helps him out that he
also has two very talented wide receivers, one of which
is one of the best wide receivers in the entire NFL.
In a Moner of Saint Brown leads the Lions by
a wide margin in every single category receiving category and
as among the league leaders in basically every single receiving category,

(06:39):
target receptions eighth and targets, receptions, receiving yards touched a
second in receiving touchdowns in the NFL. YEP, He's amazing,
and Jamison Williams has really turned it on lately the
last five games. In four of the five games, he
has no less than four catches sixty six yards and
a touchdown in four of the last five and.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Third in the league in yards per sept eighteen yards
per catch. He has a big play machine.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Yeah, I mean, anytime he gets the ball in his
hands like he has the potential to take it seventy
five yards to the house. So you gotta be careful
and watch out for his speed. And Dan Campbell's taken
over play calling the last couple of games for the
Detroit and especially since he took over, he has made
a big effort to get Jamison Williams the ball and
we have seen Jamison Williams production increase the last couple

(07:26):
of weeks because of it.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
So there's in.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Terms of slowing down this offense, it's a challenge for
any team. We did just see the Eagles limit them
to nine points, the first time the Lion's offense has
been held to single digits on offense in about two years, which,
honestly that scares me because because they have won I

(07:49):
believe it's was it like thirteen straight games coming off
of a loss, which is tied for the third longest streak.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Thirteen straight wins coming off of loss. It's the third
longest streak. The only two teams are longest streaks, so
the Ravens from nine to twelve and the Broncos from
nineteen eighty four to nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, so it's not good facing them coming off a loss,
but especially a loss in which the offense looks so bad.
Jared Goff had one of his worst games in years.
I think his completion percentage was like thirty seven percent.
They only scored nine points. You better believe Dan Campbell
is gonna want to have that offense firing on all cylinders.
They're gonna come out wanting to drop, you know, forty

(08:30):
to fifty points on Sunday, and it's gonna be up
to the Giants defense to really step up and prevent
them from doing that.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
And desperation might be too strong of award in Week twelve,
but right now, the lines are not in the playoffs. Yeah,
they're six and four. Yep. They are behind in the
wildcard race the Seahawks, the Packers, and the forty nine
Ers a game or a half a game behind all
three of those teams.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Now, the NFC North is very tight that race for
the top. I believe they're only one game out from
first place, seven to three Bears, and they still play
I believe, all three of the divisional opponents again, so
they I mean, I would be shocked if they don't
end up making the playoff. Yeah, but you gotta win
the games in front of you, No hundred percent, I agree.
And but just on the flip side. In terms of

(09:11):
the Giants offense going against the Lions defense, the Lions
defense is a little bit, not quite so much, but
a little bit of a pass funnel unit because up front,
they are super talented. They have so many guys up
front that make it very, very difficult to run the football.
And while their past defense has had some mixed results,
you know their top ten in yards allowed, but they

(09:33):
have also allowed I believe it's like the eighth most
passing touchdowns. And a reason for that is because right now,
at least, their secondary is decimated. It kind of looks
like our secondary in terms of just injuries they've had.
Last week, they were missing three of their four starting
defensive backs, Terry and Arnold, the quarterback out with a concussion,

(09:55):
has yet to practice this week. Doesn't sound like he's
gonna play. It does not seem like it. You know,
the fact that he has and even been limited so
far puts him on the wrong side of you know, questionable.
Kirby Joseph, their safety has also not practiced at all
this week after missing last week with the knee injury.
And then there's DJ Reid, the very talented cornerback who
has suffered a hamstring injury.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
I believe he's been on injured reserve and is week four.
I think, yeah, for a while, he has been practicing
this week, but limited. I talked. I talked to Tim Twentyman,
who covers the lines for their website, this morning, did
an interview with him on Wednesday. He told me, he
told me he talked to one of one of my compatrioteers.
I guess he talked to you, and he said he
think it looks like Reid might be back this week. Really, yes,

(10:37):
even if he doesn't get upgraded to a full participant.
He told me this morning that they feel good about replaying,
So we'll see if that happens or not. Oh, it'd
be great if they held him out one more week.
DJ red out there well regardless even if dj Read
does return, they still will be without half of their
starting secondary starting secondary. And Brian Branch, who has been playing,

(10:58):
did suffer a toe injury, was a DNP on Wednesday,
got back the limited yesterday. You probably will play, but
tell me he's playing. It doesn't seem like he will
be playing at one hundred percent at least. Yeah, And
but look, even with those guys out, look what they
did against the Eagles on Monday night. Now, granted, the
Eagles pass game this year has not been great, and
the condition that bad. The win was brutal, That's true.
And I asked him, look and then you can find

(11:19):
this is the audiopie on the Giants Little podcast here
since so the audio interview with with Tim is up
in the Johnsontle podcast right now the audio feed. Subscribe
on your favorite podcast platform, please, And I said, has
all these injuries altered the way they scheme the secondary
because the Eagle the Lions have one of the highest
man demand rates and one of the highest press man

(11:40):
rates in the league. He goes, Nope, They're gonna run
the exact same way. And Rokya Sen who stepped in
has done a really nice job. Mic Robertson has moved
from the slot to outside. He's done a nice job.
So he says that, look, they're gonna come out there,
and especially against a Giants wide receiver corps here that
does not have the league neighbors and doesn't have that
one guy that you really look, if you're willing to

(12:01):
go out there and play press mann against a J.
Brown DeVante Smith, they're sure as hell gonna be willing
to go out there and play press man against the
wide receivers the Giants rolling out there. Right, Yeah, Well,
I think this is gonna be one of those games where,
and it's really the first time we're gonna see it.
A team is gonna come out play press man and
really try to choke out this Giants passing attack and

(12:21):
give them very few easy options. Right, it's not all right,
Wandell go sit in hook curl between the safeties and
the linebackers in the corners and try to find that
hole in the defense. Uh huh, this is gonna be Look,
this guy's gonna manu up and you're gonna have to
win one on one. So I think the onus ends
up falling on guys like Slayton guys like Robinson who

(12:42):
have the quickness, end or speed to win those one
to one matchups, and maybe Theo Johnson. The Lions play
a lot of bass. They have three linebackers on the
field more than any other team in the National Football League.
They'll play Angeloni, they'll play Barnes, and they will play
Campbell sixty percent of the time. And Malcolm Rodriguez could
be back this too. He could be back too. So
can you get the tight end and favorable matchups against

(13:05):
maybe some of those linebackers too. So somebody in terms
of the perimeter weapons, Matt are going to have to
win one on one because that's how the lines are
gonna challenge you. Yeah. Maybe Isaiah Hodgins, who has the
team's leading receiver last week, and it's tough with that.
He doesn't have a ton of speed, That's why it's
tough to depend on him, but he does have the
size for it.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, And I just want to bring him up just
because he deserves so many props and kudos for what
he did last week getting here on Thursday, also.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
On the Giants Total podcast, by the way, checking.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
Out seventy two hours later, being the team's leading receiver
and literally looking like he didn't miss a beat from
the end of the twenty twenty two season, even though
it's obviously been a couple of years. But yeah, all
those guys are gonna have to really step up because
I don't know how much success Tyrone Tracy and Devin
Singletary are gonna have on the ground this week.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
It's gonna be a tough matchup.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Now, we did say that last week about the Packers defense,
and Tracy put together his best game of the season,
and Singletary was solid as well.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, they found the ends and so who knows.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
But yeah, it's gonna be really up to those pass
catchers on the outside. They're gonna have to really step up.
But just what you were saying about the Lion's defense
and how they've had all these injuries and haven't changed
the scheme. Kelvin Shepherd is a really good defensive coordinator.
Former Giant linebacker for one season. Kelvin Sheppard.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Were you here when he was here at all Arm
a couple of years before me? Dude? Really good, dude too,
really good. Is a really good coordinator, He really is.
And look, it might not be this year because it's
his first year as a coordinator, his name is going
to start getting mentioned in terms of head coaching opportunities
because I think generally speaking, decision makers like the idea

(14:42):
of a former player being in that seat because they
understand how it works. They can relate to the players
where they can put themselves in the player's seat to
figure out how that stuff works. So it would not
shock me if his again, maybe not this year because
it's year one for him, and you know, the usually
like the let guy's grow in the position a little bit.
He can't even before years old, can he? I mean
he was playing here ten years ago, I believe ten

(15:05):
or look, I'm gonna guess he's thirty seven. He's thirty
seven years old. Okay, that's what I figured. So that
was a nice guy. Again, little young, so maybe not
quite yet. But again I think he could definitely be
a candidate here. And then of course we should mention
you mentioned how good the front is. We should mention
some of the names. Only McNeil excellent obviously. Aiden Hutchinson

(15:26):
leads the NFL and pressures this year. Yea broke his
lake last year. You couldn't tell. The guy's unbelievable He
was also on his way to, in my opinion, winning
defensive player of the Year prior to that injury.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
I agree he was just an absolute wrecking ball. I
think he has seven and a half sacks in the
first five games of the season before that broken leg,
and he clearly is one hundred percent full health now,
because once again, you know, the sack numbers may not
be as high as Miles Garrett or Brian Burns, but
as you mentioned, leads the league in pressures. He just
gets after the quarterback every single snap, and his motor

(15:59):
is just endless. The guy just runs and he's like
Brian Berts. He plays with that type of motor. Tyler
Williams very talented rookie struggling shout out Dan Salomon, and
then DJ Reeder who's a very good interior defensive line.
And so they have a lot of really good players
up front, and again they're gonna put the pressure on you.
We talked about this about both these guys being aggressive.

(16:19):
If you were to put an over under on the
number of times combined these two teams go for it
on fourth data in this game, what.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Would you put the over under at ooh uh seven
and a half. I'm just thinking last week the Lions
went for it five times alone, and the fact that
they went zero for five makes me think Dan Campbell's
gonna want to come out and any chance he get,
if it's like anything less than.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
I would say maybe fourth and five, they're gonna be
going for it unless they're on their own twenty yards.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Isn't it unbelievable? By the way, how many times the
Giants have played a good team coming off of a
bad loss this year? Yeah, second straight time we're playing
it a good team coming off a bad loss to
the Eagles, I know. And then you had the Chiefs
in Week three where they were trying not to lose
for the third straight time since I think Patrick Mahomes
got there were the Chargers coming off of loss that week?

(17:11):
Quite remember they work they were, they came off a win.
I feel like the Eagles came off a loss the
first time the Giants played them, they were coming off
their first loss of the year. Is that the correct
I thought? I remembered that. So they keep playing these
good teams awful losses. Can we not maybe keep doing that? Anyway?
The way I did the math I was I was

(17:31):
testing Sidetak and Salomon on this. So I went back.
We talked about the Giants at the toughest schedule in
the league heading into this year, and we always noted that, look,
it depends on who you're playing when you're playing them,
and a lot of times the records last year doesn't
dictate to the records this year. Was it ninth? Is
that the number I came up with that. I told
you guys, they did the ninth hardest schedule this year

(17:53):
so far. The Giants wasn't the fourth. I think it
was fifth. It was fifth, was the fifth, So they
still despite the fact that things change year to year. Yeah,
I think it was fifth. It was fifth. They had
the fifth hardest schedule in terms of purely based on
opponent winning percentage in the NFL this year, So it
has in fact been a tough schedule we think about it. Yeah,
Chargers still good, Chief still good, Broncos still good, Eagles

(18:15):
still good, Dallas a little bit better this year than
they were last year. The Patriots have obviously played much better,
The Niners have obviously played a lot better. So a
lot of those teams that even were on the low
point of the schedule have played a lot better than
the record might indicate.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
So, and most of the teams that were not all,
but most of the teams that were on the lower
end of the spectrum in terms of opponents are after
the bye. Those last four games stretched that the Giants have.
You know now that Washington before the season. Minnesota obviously
had a tough train to schedule because they had a
lot of success last year, but obviously not not going

(18:51):
so well in Minnesota this year. But Washington, Minnesota, Las Vegas,
and then Dallas, which under five pounds better than last year,
but yeah, still under five und Now those.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Numbers are included in the overall strength of schedule. Oh, okay,
they are, so those games are included. But it speaks
to the fact that the teams of Giants have played
so far. Imagine I haven't looked at it, but if
you take those teams records out of it, imagine how
tough the strength the schedule would be for the teams
that they've already played. It's probably close to six fifty.

(19:21):
If you take out the Commanders, the Raiders, the Cowboys,
I mean, that's Commander one, true, but you take outside
of the Saints, all these other teams are over five
hundred and well, well Washington and Dallas and then correct,
but well over five hundred two, like at least two
games over five hundred for all those teams. So has
not been has not been an easy schedule. And of

(19:43):
course we joke that, you know, the Patriots will be
can you get the Patriots on the other be a
soft spot? Yeah? Well, how's that going? Right now? They're
on in track to be the number one seed in
the AFC, which is absolutely boncos anything else on this
game before we get to the calls, No, let's get
to it all. Let's do it two one nine three
nine four five one three one nine three nine four
five one three. It's good to Giovanni and Jacksonville. Giovanni.

(20:04):
What's up? Giovanni? Go on, Yeah, what's up?

Speaker 5 (20:09):
Matt?

Speaker 6 (20:10):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah? A lot of clear, Yeah, what's going on? Man?

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (20:13):
Uh So I'm just calling cuz I think even though
a lot of Giants fans might be mixed on like
Dart being rolled out, I think it's really good just
because he gives them time to he'll recover to rush
him back, because we'll see what Jamis Winston can do. Like,
I have a lot of faith in him. I'm sure
everyone does. But like, if you really think about it,
the Packers are a top ten defense, and Jamis did

(20:34):
relatively well considering you know, the three or four throats
that he did potentially have an interception on. I mean,
we got lucky in those drops, but I want to
be optimistic about it. I mean, if there's anyone who
can play against his defense is Jamis, and he's gonna
sling it. I'm I'm pretty sure he's gonna have a
handful of attempts. But I have a lot of faith

(20:55):
in Jamis. I think you'll play really well.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
No, I agree with you. I think you have to
just be haushes with Dart. Let him get through the protocol,
don't rush him back, and look, I think Jamis will
certainly give them a chance to win as long as
as at the other team. I think my disappointment comes
from the fact that I just wanted to see Jackson
against the two best defenses remaining on the schedule, which

(21:17):
was the Packers last week and now the Lions this week,
and we're not going to get to see how he
does against those top tier defenses the same way I
was aside to see him play against the Broncos, who
have one of the best defenses in the league. It's
just something I would have liked to see him go through,
just as you start to see a rookie quarterback develop,
you know what I mean, more about getting valuable. Oh yeah,
that's it.

Speaker 6 (21:37):
Ah yeah, I agree on hundred percent. Like I think
a lot of Giants fans believe Dart's the guy, and
I don't think there's any doubt, but I agree it
would have been really entertaining to see how he competes
against ten defenses because the Lions are top eight in
defense right now, in rushing, had offense, and then the
only way the Giants are going to stay in this
game is special teams they show out and third down

(22:00):
it's gonna be huge because like you guys said, like
and Campell's gonna go out on fourth down no matter what.
So I think the Giants defense has to really step
up and play their best ball, especially before the Patriots
next week. So I think they can do it. I
have a lot of faith in the team. I know
it's you know, rough times right now, but I mean
there's reasons to be optimistic too, So That's all I
gotta say. But uh yeah, go big Blue.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Thanks Givonie. Appreciate the call. Believe it or not. The
Lions are twenty sixth in the National Football League in
terms of third down efficiency on offense, which you wouldn't
think basically, twenty seventh. Part of me a thirty six percent,
So you wouldn't think that a team is talented as
Detroit would struggle on third downs. But they've had a
lot of issues converting on I wonder if that was
one of the reasons Campbell took over play calling. He
didn't like the third down conversion stuff.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, But on the flip side, their defense on third
down has been one of the best of the NFL
correct right fourth and even the fourth down defense ranks tenth.
So the defense steps up in the key situations. And
despite their you know, somewhat struggles on those key situations
on offense, I don't I'm not putting any like doubt

(23:02):
towards that offense being able to just flip it a
flip a switch like that and just get things going.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
And just to your point, Givanni about Dart and I've
said this before, I just want to reiterate it. He's
played in seven games. I think we all feel good
about what we've seen in those seven games. I think
we all agree that we've seen enough natural ability and
talent to think that he can become the quarterback of
the future, and a high level one at that, whether
it's the natural pocket field, the mobility. He's got a

(23:29):
good enough arm for sure. It's not a Josh Allen arm,
but no one has a Josh Allen orm. So I
think we all feel good about it. But I don't
want to speak for SITTAC, but I'm never sure about
anything over after just seven games, Like seven games is
a small sample size. We saw CJ. Stroud for a
full season, be like he wasn't he top five MVP

(23:49):
that year. I've think CJ. Stroud and hasn't looked as
good since, so let's see more. I like what I've seen,
continue to develop him, but remember seven games in the
National Football League is still just seven games in the
National Football League, so we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah, undoubtedly it's been a great start to his career,
but it has been far from perfect. I mean that
there are definitely certain areas that you could pinpoint saying
you know, he needs to definitely work on this in
order to take his game to another level.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
By the way, he would say that too, about one
hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
You know, I mean you look at his like deep
passing numbers, those aren't that good. And obviously the whole
I mean, the greatest thing in my opinion about Eli
Manning and this was the whole the old saying, but
the greatest ability is availability. Eli was here ready to
go every single week throughout his career. Jackson obviously also

(24:40):
needs to learn how to take away some of the
risk of the hits that he takes and not just
you know, the running is obviously a big aspect of
his game and no one wants him to completely remove that.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
But we even saw it.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
We've seen it with Josh Allen with early in his career,
with the amount he ran and his just willingness to
take hits every single time he ran with the ball
to now where he obviously still takes some hits, but
he puts himself out of those situations where he's taking
a big hit basically every single time he runs the ball.
So it's definitely been an encouraging start to the career
for Jackson. Dart We're all very excited, you know, especially

(25:16):
for next year when Malik Dabers hopefully will be back healthy,
Camp Skataboo will hopefully be back healthy, and who knows
what other playmakers get added to this group.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
So it's definitely been encouraging.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
I agree with you that you know, I've been fooled
about various things since my time working here.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
This is my seventh season where I made a declaration.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I made a declaration after one year and it just
completely backfired pretty quickly. So I'm not gonna do that again.
I need to see a little bit more, but no
doubt about it. It's been a very good start.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And by the way, works the other way to where
guys have been really bad in their first year then
end up being good players. Like it happens like if
you would have told me after his first year that
Mike McFadden would be as good as he was after
his season, I would have told you were crazy. I
never thought that would have happened. What about after the
first was two years of Dexter Lawrence's career that he
would be in All Pro Yeah, look it even like
I think even those beginning of his career, he was

(26:13):
like solid, But I don't think anyone thought this guy
is you know, consistent all pro talent, which he was
for a few years. Obviously a bit of a down
season this year, but the talent is is still there.
I mean Cordo Fla too, he took a big jump
in your four. So you just never know how what
the timing is going to look like for these guys
as you move forward.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah, so here's another guy, And I don't want this
to be controversial, but JMS has taken a step this year. Yes,
from the first two seasons of his career. Obviously still
got a way to go, but he's looked a lot
better this year.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
This has been his best year by far by Sure again,
is he where he wanted to be at? Nobody's certainly
gotten better Number two. And I can't believe I'm saying
this about a Giant's quarterback, but it's true. Jackson Dort
has actually played behind really good protection and while Shatabu
was healthy, a really good running game. So what does
Dart look like if the protection falters or the running
game's not there. So these are all things said you
have to figure out. And that's what happened with Stroud right,

(27:02):
like his offensive line completely fell apart and then he
couldn't deal with that. Now darts so much more mobile.
He is rluke pocket presence. I think he could but
we haven't seen it yet, so it there's a lot
a lot of things to still see as he develops.
I'm not trying to tamper enthusiasm. Everyone should be super excited,
but remember seven games is in fact just seven games.
All right, let's go to Marcus in California. Marcus, what's
going on? Oh?

Speaker 5 (27:23):
Then, I just want to say, uh that I brought
up the draft John two weeks before the seventeen, so
I told Pearson to judge, but you did agree with
me in the draft when I brought it up. We
do need to get better on the offensive line and
another wide receiver, but that's pretty much it, dude. I

(27:44):
hope we go out and set the Lions and that's
pretty much it. John, Mar's getting better.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Thank you, Marcus planting his flag as the earliest person
to bring up the draft. I'm not sure if that's
not to be proud of Marcus to be doally honest
with you, but good for you, I guess. Thank you
for the call. Market. We actually did have a we
were talking, we were talking about draft season upstairs yesterday
up in side tax part of the office, and look
it's Jordan Reed came out with this top fifty this morning,

(28:12):
which I know you were perusing. Dan Brugler had a
couple weeks ago Tony and Tony's top twenty five on
our show this week. Draft season, go check it out.
By the way podcast platforms, Giants, YouTube channel, all that,
Giants dot Com, Giants app. And it's these lists are
all very different. It's not like a uniform top ten,
like Jordan had the second Utah offensive tacklehead of Fano,

(28:35):
and other guys have final like fifteen spots ahead of
the other one. You know, Maui Noah, the Miami offensive lineman.
Some people have him as a guard like Jordan's. Some
people have him to tackle. You know what wide receivers
the top wide receiver? Is it Jordan Tyson? Is it
Carnell Tate? Do you like somebody else? There's a lot
of stuff very much up in the air. Here is

(28:56):
this draft class sorts itself out, you know, the quarter
of actual different order. Some people like Simpsons, some people
like more, some people like Mendoza. So it's very unstable
in the top eight or so. And you know, I
think how the College wole you made this point upstairs,
how the College Fable playoffs goes, will have a really
big impact on what happens here and then how the

(29:17):
postseason goes. You know, I bet you a lot of
these guys are gonna say yes to all these events
like Senior Bowl. Yeah, because you can. If nobody's set,
you can move a lot and that means making a
lot more money on that rookie contract. So I think
it's gonna be a very exciting draft season this year
as guys try to fight their way into the top
five and a lot of these draft orders.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, at least as of right now, there's no like,
you know, set top three five guys, Like as you mentioned,
everyone has different players on the top of their rings.
Now it tends to happen whereas we get closer to
the draft, guys said tend to separate themselves from the others.
And there does seem to be at least some clarity

(29:57):
on a couple of the guys that you know are
pretty much for sure going to be top five picks.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Arville Reese would be one of those guys.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
I was going to say, on all those different lists
and rankings, at least one name that is pretty consistently
near the top, and two makes dance album on upstairs
quite yes, and but two other guys that are consistently
in the top ten. But again, look at their positions
running back Jeremiah Love and safety Caleb Downs. But again
we don't want to relitigate twenty seventeen again, but how

(30:23):
high do you pick a running back? How high do
you pick a safety?

Speaker 3 (30:26):
We had this conversation about Kyle Hamilton a few years ago, right,
So whenever you see running backs and safeties in the
top tens of these mock drafts, it should tell you
that might be a little bit of an iffy draft
at the top. Yeah, you're not wrong.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
But after watching some Ohio State games because of Dan
making me basically assigning me homework, I gotta.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Say, Arvill Reese in this defense wouldn't be the worst thing.
What'd you play them all over? Nah?

Speaker 4 (30:55):
I've heard that, Harry. Primarily I would say off ball,
but you know, up sometimes on the edge.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I know giant fans will not like to hear me
say this, but I believe the Giants will probably win
one or two too many games in the final six
to have that high a draft pick. And it's funny,
it comes full circle here. I mentioned their high strength
of schedule. That's gonna hurt them in the tiebreaker for
these draft picks, because the better the strength of schedule,
you're gonna lose your tie breaker against the other teams.
The lower your strength of schedule, the better your tie

(31:24):
breaker chances are when they have two teams with identical records.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Now, I do think I saw this though, that there
are a few matchups in the last six seven weeks
of the season where it's two of the teams that
are currently in the top you know, five to six
seven absolutely so obviously, barring a tie, someone's gonna end
up winning that game and move down the draft order.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Well, for example, you would Browns Jets last week, right,
I mean, one of those teams that to win that game,
and both those teams are right in the mix there,
So Browns Raiders, I believe, is this week Browns Raiders.
That's another one, exactly right. I thought I was actually
just about looking it up. I thought Saint Falcons that's
another one, except that Falcons pick is going to the Rams,
which is scary.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
The Rams could be in the super Bowl and also
get a top five to ten pick.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Crazy. Great. That's why you don't trade future first round
picks unless you're picking a quarterback. Yeah, my rule of thumb,
James Pearce, how's that looking?

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Then?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Never say, oh, we're ten games, our record is going
to be good, we can trade our first round pick.
I believe that is what you term famous last words.
As a fan of the Knicks, I experienced that many
times over of trading future first round picks. It rarely
works out. And yes, I am scarred permanently from that experience.
Thank you, Eddie Curry. Let's go. Let's go to Lucas

(32:40):
in New Jersey. He's up next. Let's up Lucas.

Speaker 7 (32:43):
Yo, what up, guys, it's a quick thing. I wanted
to workshop off for you.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Sure.

Speaker 7 (32:49):
If I were the defensive coach and with the group
that we have, I was thinking how could I optimize
against the run? I was thinking, get Text in the
middle next to him, put who really cares, Put Elijah
Chapman at the edge, put Jordan Riley to just be beefy,

(33:10):
and then burns I'm not taking them away from the line,
but he's gonna have his hand in the dirt like
a d N, like a you know, the classic d N.
So those are the four I'd leave in the dirt.
And then you're thinking, you know who's gonna be the
mic Mike Okarah, Kay Bibotoh, I'm putting him as the
will of the Sam doesn't matter and Abdul same. Just
to try it out. I know it's unconventional, but for me,

(33:33):
Abdul's having trouble getting across, you know, he's getting he's
having a little trouble, you know, getting sacks and whatnot.
I would just mix it up and I'd send one
of those. You know, I'd probably send either Abdul or
Bibbs from that linebacker position pretty frequently, as you know
that that fifth person in the rush. I just wanted

(33:53):
to see what you thought about that.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah, look at what we saw when they went against
teams that played a lot of too tight offense twelve personnel.
We saw the Giants last few weeks use a lot
more base personnel on defense and when when when healthy
now and some guys are injured, so it's not going
to be looked exactly like this. We saw the three
guys in the middle. We saw dext Roy, Robertson, Harris
and Nacho. We saw Burns and Thibodeau on the edges

(34:18):
in the five man front, and then you had o'kaara
kay and it was Mussau before he got hurt. Now
it's Demetrius, Flanneg and fouls as your two inside linebackers.
So they tried to use big people in those situations.
And actually in Okay, it might have changed as of
two or three weeks ago. When I first did this equation,
I tried to look at the Giants run defense stats
and what I use was EPA per rush. This is

(34:40):
kind of an overarching efficiency number on defense. They were
actually better stopping the run in nickel than they were
in base, which was surprising when I yeah, so, I
don't know if that is to do with the fact
that other teams were also on light personnel, so they
just did better when other teams the three wide receivers
on the field, and when two tight ends were on
the field, the Giants had more trouble. But they from
an e PA per basis, And again this was a

(35:01):
few weeks ago. This might have changed since then. They
were actually better against the run and nickel than they
were in based, so you could take that for whatever
it's worth.

Speaker 7 (35:10):
No, I hear it. But good show, good points, good energy,
and I think like this. Before the season started, my
main goal was just not to watch garbage. And I
don't think I watched garbage this year. I think that,
you know, ninety percent of the games we had a lead,
We felt good, A little dramatic that like you're at
the cusp of like really turning the tide if you
do stuff right in the fourth quarter. I guess, you know,

(35:31):
you know, maybe the decision not to play you know,
Dart in the beginning kind of led to it, whatever
it was, But at least from a pure product perspective,
it's been a better product. And like everyone's saying, we
got the quarterback, we got the quarterback were quarterback. My
buddy was like, hey, who do we draft? I was like,
I don't It doesn't really matter who we draft. Oh yes,
I don't really care. I really don't care.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Well, Lucas doesn't matter who, but the player better be good.
The player has to be good. I don't look, I'm
with you, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily care what position,
what the player. Look, you need to keep drafting good players.
That's how you build the team. And one of the
reasons this year, and you know, you haven't had the
guys that you drafted previously. Continue that linear improvement arc, right,

(36:13):
And that's one of the reasons why I think you
have had some And look, I always say this every year,
and Sat has time to me saying it. You don't
win because of the guys you draft that year. You
win because of the guys you drafted two and three
years prior to that that are still on the rookie contracts.
Those are the guys that make a difference. Tiki Barber
says this. He has scarred this into my soul. Tiki

(36:34):
Barber says this all the time. I hate rookies. You
cannot depend on them. They don't know what they're doing.
You cannot build your team's success around what rookies do
for you. So I will go with Tiki, and you
have to develop that. You have to make sure you
draft good players that you develop into better players. That's
what you need to do if you want to have You.

Speaker 7 (36:53):
Noticed that rookies are getting more and more in competence.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
But look, I mean, just draft good players. That's what
you got to do. You got to keep drafting good players.
And if you keep drafting good players, that's how you
build your ronster. And you can't plug holes in free agency.
You know, the key is that you want to you know,
you want to draft the guys and those are the
guys that become your starters. You don't want to have
to fill those spots in for agency if you don't
have to.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah, I mean, you look at some of the best
teams in the NFL, it's teams that were for the
most part, built in the draft. Obviously, once you get
a good core of players that you drafted on those
rookie contracts, then you can fill out the rest of
the roster with free agents with you know, bigger signing guys.
But if you don't hit it in the draft, you
don't have much of the chance to succeed in the

(37:36):
NFL because your roster. The way to build a strong
roster is by, as you mentioned, taking advantage of those
talented players on rookie contracts. So if you have the
predominant number of guys on those rookie contracts, that are
not playing up to expectations, that are not playing that well.
It doesn't matter who you surround them with. That team

(37:57):
is just not going to find success, not consistently at least.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
And by the way, that's that's an organizational thing, right,
That's not just a front office business. The coach's jobs
to develop the players do so that then that's also
the players responsibility to continue to get back. And that
is that is in everything deal. I'm not trying to
point fingers. That is everyone contributes to that. And that's
what you gotta do in Wander to be a consistent
organ Just put the Ravens and the Eagles all they
do and even even though having the success to an
extent that Dallas Cowboys, where they just continue to build

(38:23):
compis right, and they just draft guys guys that don't sign,
they lose them. You get compets. Look at the teams
that I get the most compis every year. It's because
they draft and they develop to the point where they're
able to let guys leave. You know, the Eagles just
trade a third round pick for Jalen Flips. You know
why they were the trade third round pick for Jayleen Phips.
They have like twelve picks in next year's draft because
he get a million compics coming, he'd free agent right Coorse,

(38:45):
if he's signed somewhere else on a big deal, they'll
get a compick back though the following year's draft. But
still that's how they stockpile all these draft picks, not
one hundred percent. Right, All right, let's go to Julian
and Florida. He's up next, guy.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Julian, Hey, guys, thought you doing and I might disagree
a little bit about the rookie thing. I mean, I mean,
if we really look at it, like Jackson Dark came
in and Scattabo came in and they we beat the
Eagles on Thursday night. I mean, sometimes rookies get be
plugged in and can play well right off the bat.
But I will, like, I get what you guys are

(39:17):
trying to say, like and whatnot, but that's distraction.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Well, I will say this, Julian. I will say this.
Running backs to me are an exception to that rule.
I think running backs and Lucas actually asked that question,
we didn't answer it. Our rookies becoming more incompetent in
early in their careers. I think it depends on who
the rookie is and what programming comes from in college
and what they're asking of him. I think some positions, yes,
Other positions no. I think running back, Julian, to your point,

(39:41):
is a plug and play position. You can draft the
running back, you can plug them right in, you can
be okay. But other positions, I think again, depending on
where they come from, I think it can be a
little bit more difficult and just real quick.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Going back to Lucas's question as well, I don't know
if it's that rookies are more incompetent now, but it
seems like in the last i don't know, maybe five
six years, expectations for rookie have shifted significantly. But now
everyone expects these rookies to step in and be these
significant contributors and the best players on the team right away.
When it was just a couple of years ago where

(40:10):
you would say, like, wait till a guy hits year
two or year three, and then that's when he's like
reaching his peak and you can really rely on him.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Now everyone expect Yep, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Obviously not every position is like that, but it does
seem like just overall, people expect rookies to step in.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
That takes two to three years.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, and then look just just as an example, like
Dallas Turner is someone that came out last year and
he gave the Vikings absolutely nothing. I mean, it was
like a huge disappointment, and now he's having a pretty
good year this year in a year too. So it
just takes these guys sometimes sometimes, you know, just kind
of get going a little bit. Anyway, that wasn't your point.
You have a different when Julian go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, yeah, I had a point driving down the highway
here and then I lost it with all the callers
coming in.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
But it's all good.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
It's always good to talk to you guys. But like
kind of going back to this, you know, I'm curious
why now I'm really hot and everywhere, but I'm curious why.
You know, a lot of people are going after Joe
Shane's head, And I totally understand that when you're sitting
at a GM position, you know, it always starts at
the top when you have a lot of problems going
on with the team, that at first it goes to

(41:12):
the coach and then it goes all the way up.
But I think people forget that as much as he
missed on some draft picks. The picks we also hit
on a lot of other ones too. Now, the whole
Jackson Dart thing that came out on video from Hard
Knocks or whatever it was, I think it was giant's
life that it showed that Brian Dable was the one
that was really trying to go for Jackson Dart. Well,
guess what, There still has to be a trade to

(41:33):
be done, right, There still has to be negotiations that
have to have been had, and Joe Shane was the
one able to do that. And again, really to your point,
John is I love Jackson Dart. I love what I'm seeing.
I don't even want to tell you who I'm comparing
him to when I'm watching all these clips because it's
way too early to say it. But if he is

(41:54):
a hit, which it looks like it is so far,
that's a great trade. And if you look at the
quarterbacks that came out of this class, he's probably the
best quarterback out of his class so far. Right, Again,
Joe Shane made the train for Brian Birds, who's second
place in facts this year. Like he made that trade
so like as much as he may be missing, like,

(42:16):
what do we expect that of a GM to hit
every single draft and every single trade possible. Now here's
where I will say, like he needs to pick up
the slack. We have no receivers, like once Elite Neighbors
went down, it was when you have Darius Layton as
your number one. I'm sorry, like I love Slayton, not
sure about that signing we did with him, but that's

(42:37):
where we fall short. And that's where it's like where
we need to be a little bit more aggressive on
getting better weapons and whatnot. However, we're working with a
salary cat that we didn't really have that much money
to work.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
With, right Julian, And I think if you don't trade
that second round pick to move up for Dart last year,
you might have used that pick in a wide receiver, you
know what I mean. I think we did the show
in the summer, and I think if it was we
could add one player at any position, what position we
had a Matt, I think I picked receiver. I mean,
I think we all knew that was one of the
spots that was going to be a little bit shallow,
and I believe all of us when we had our show,

(43:07):
who is the player you could at least afford to
lose this year. I believe all of us selecting the
league neighbors, at least Matt and I did.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
It was either the league neighbors or Andrew to.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Jalen high for a second. Were we all not yelling
on Twitter to get him. I'm not you guys.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
For the fans.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Sometimes forget John I was. I'm a fan. I'm a
Twitter Giant follower. When Jalen Hyatt was still available, we
were yelling, get Hi, grab Julian.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I had people, Julian I had people calling me in
March that year that wanted to draft both him and
John Michael Schmidz in the first round of that year's draft.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
You see what I'm saying, like first round, I love.
I'm speaking for the choir here. I am a Giants fan.
I am speaking to all Giants fans. We need to
sometimes come back to reality and realize, like we're the
ones yelling for this. And I live in Miami and
guess what they were tanking for Tua hashtag a couple.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Of years ago.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Right, tank for two, A tank for two, A thank
for two. It Now they're not happy with it, and
they're blaming the GM they're blaming the head coach, they're
blaming everybody down here, even though they won three games
in a row. But that thing to hear there, But
like we we asked for this kind of stuff, So
what do you want? Like you're you're yelling at Joe
Shane on Twitter and calling in the Giants there the
show over here telling John and Paul and Matt and

(44:19):
everyone we should draft John Michael Schmid's in the first
and second round or Jalen High in the second and
third round. And we're doing it, and then we're going
after the GM's head for doing things that we're we're
like begging for. So I just think we need to
take a step back. The Brian Birds trade is a
great trade. Yes, can we all agree there? I mean,
look at that He's he's second place in sacks, not

(44:40):
j when we thought when when it should be Kaveon Thibodeau,
when we thought it would be even abdual Carter. But
like we made a trade for that player. Now I'm
gonna make my last point. I'm gonna got off the air.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
I know i'm ranting here.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
I know that in the past couple of years, what
we've gone with it's been after tomc conflin, it was
Ben mcado, it was Pat Shermer, Jojo just a special
teams coach, don't really count that. But then we went
over to Brian Dables. So that's four coaches, three out
of the four all offensive minded. And I even think
Joe Judge had offensive experience correct or did he come

(45:13):
from the defensive side of the ball.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
He was a little bit of both. I think yeah, yeah,
he was. He was primarily specials.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I think I'm ready, and again I'm just a fan,
just a Twitter following fan over here. I think I'm
ready to step and there's like, you know, things going
out there that we want, like a CEO type of coach.
I think I'm ready for a defensive minded guy here.
And when you look at that defensive roster, I mean
when you really put it down on paper, Granted, people
need to be healthy, a debo needs to be healthy.

Speaker 8 (45:43):
All these guys.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
When we were looking at a preseason, we already were
talking about how oftome this Giants defense is going to be.
I'm so ready to bring a DC in and make
him the head coach and get a great offensive call
play caller on the offensive side.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
Of the ball.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Let him handle that side very much like the commanders.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
But Julian, that Julian, that's the tough part though. Can
you find the great offensive play caller.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Defens why not? Why not? Vic Fangio. I don't know
if I The only argument I have with my friends
down here is that they have heard that doubts his
last stop in Philly.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
But I say, I'm just from what I've read, he
the vibes are that he thinks, appreciate I don't think.
I don't know if he wants to be a head
coach again. Sounds like he's just happy being a d C.

Speaker 7 (46:28):
Right.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
That's that's now. Obviously things can change right very quickly.
But that seems to be the vibes that are being
sent out from Even before he got to Philly, it
seemed like he was like, I'm I'm done being a
head coach. I'm happy just coaching the defense, all right.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Two points that he made them on a touch on one.
Has every draft pick worked out? No, I think the
strategy and the approach has been sound. The way he
thinks about this has been sound. You know, try to
approach it from the inside out, you know, the front,
whether it's defense or offense. Whatever. Now again everything hasn't worked,
but that happened in the draft sometimes, so the Giants
will make whatever decision they make after the year. The

(47:03):
idea that because of one fifteen second clip on Hard Knocks,
people have drawn the conclusion that Joe Shane was really
not that in favor of drafting Jackson Dart might be
the most annoying, dumbfounding, idiotic thing that I've read this year.
And that's saying something. It's saying something. Do you know

(47:27):
how many hours of meetings they probably had talking about
Jackson Dart, Hours and hours and hours with scouts, the GM,
Dennis Hickey, Brandon Brown, go through the whole list of
everybody that was on the personnel side. Guys, if Joe
Shane didn't think Jackson Dart was a potential long term

(47:48):
franchise starter or quarterback, he would not have drafted him,
would not have traded up to draft him. Things like
the thing that drives me crazy as well, like this,
the GM, first of all, the GM is the one
that makes the fire call. It's his decision, and to
then not only draft Jacks up, but to trade up
and trade future draft picks in order to make the
move for him. Clearly he had confidence in him as well.

(48:11):
This might be. I agree with you. It's been the
most annoying narrative that I've seen online of anything that's
being said about you know, this franchise right now, this
might be in Joe Shane's life, the only chance he
has to draft a guy that could be a franchise quarterback,
the only time in his whole life that he is
a chance to draft one guy to play the most
most important position on his football team. If you think

(48:35):
he's just gonna say eh, I'm not a fan, but
if you like him, sure, why not? No, this isn't
you co drafting somebody for your fantasy football team in
like round six? Oh, who do you want? Do you
want Jayalen Waddle or do you want the Roma Dunes?
Ay ah, you could pick. I don't care. That's not
how this works. It's not how this works. Like, are

(48:57):
you kidding me? It's the dumbest possible thing that anyone
could believe.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
I'm with you, Like, there's plenty of things that can
be said in criticizing the Giants this season, Yes, and
I get almost all of it, But that narrative that
I've seen, I agree.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
With you is just so absurd. I don't see how
again I have somebody even arguing against it. Is it
just so little set from a.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Ten second clip on hard Knocks. That's what all this
comes from, Like it's or Giant's life is crazy.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
So the clip that people is when he goes you
got we got you your guy? Was that the quote
that people are like making the big deal about. I
think that was it. I mean, my gosh, people like
use your noodles, like have some and again most of
the people that listen and call into the show no better,
but just use your noodle a little bit, Like have

(49:52):
some understanding of how the process works, in the amount
of time and the conversation and the collaboration that goes
on between the coaching staff and the front office to
select these guys and to use a first round pick
on a player. I mean, Joe said this, you have
to have consensus on that player, especially a quarterback. I

(50:15):
was gonna say that collaboration we were just talking about
that goes for every single pick in the entire draft
that the team has, so especially if you're willing to
make a move, a trade up trade additional draft picks
to move into the first round to take a quarterback.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
The fact that you some people think that it wasn't
a total collaborative move, it is mind boggling.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yeah, I don't, I just I don't have a great
answer for it. I mean, it's just the fact that
the general manager who's trying to just from a selfish perspective,
show that he's a good general manager, right, like, we
just seed the most important I mean, guys, I'm not
being overblown here. They picked Moliite Neighbors six overall. Six yep.

(50:54):
They selected Abdul Carter third overall. They selected Evan Neil
and cave On Tipital back to back six and seven, five,
five and six, five and seven, Sorry, five and seven.
You're right, my bad. Ikwanu was the one pick in
between them. With all of that, you know who Joe
Shane's most important draft pick might be and who was
probably gonna be one way or the other. It's going
to be Jackson Dark And if you think he's just

(51:17):
gonna seed his power and authority to make that pick
to somebody else, it's insane. It's insane. Yeah, that's just
not how it works. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Sorry, I agree that is for sure the most important pick.
I don't think anyone's gonna doubt that because of the position.
I mean not to harp on the pass. But if
you look back at Dave Gettleman's first round picks, Daniel
Jones was obviously one of them. It did clearly did
not pan out, and that he no longer is a
general manager in the NFL. You look at some of

(51:50):
the other picks he had, he might have drafted three
Hall of famers, very very good place. That still clearly
wasn't enough to save him.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
The quarterback didn't pan out. Sorry, Saquon Barkley might be
a whole famer. Dexter Lawrence has a chance to be
a Hall of Famer. Andrew Thomas, if he stays healthy
this whole career, has a chance to be a Hall
of Famer. Now are any of those three written in
stone that it's gonna happen. No, but they have a chance.
They're all very good players. Though they're all doubted, like,
there's no argument there. They are all very good players,
all Pro caliber players. Two of them have made All

(52:18):
Pro teams. I don't think Andrews made one yet, right, Oh, No,
he was a second teamer.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
He was a second team, right, He's never made He
didn't make the Pro Bowl that career, which is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Correct. Yeah, so all three guys have made all pro teams,
but the one pick that really did not pan out
was the quarterback and that's what led to him not
being a GM anymore. Correct. So trust me, guys, Joe
Shane like Jackson dark too, and he wanted him. You
can call up and yell at me if you want.
That's the truth. Mike in Virginia. He's gonna wrap us

(52:48):
up today.

Speaker 8 (52:48):
I Mike, Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Fethers?

Speaker 7 (52:50):
Well?

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Good?

Speaker 8 (52:52):
Just one event real quick, man. I've listened to you
how all the time. Man, I call him once in
a while when he really did gets to me good
or bad?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
You know, no, gt it, I got it.

Speaker 8 (53:02):
Why is it just so hard for us to be
a functioning team? Like I'm sitting here listening to y'all
and I'm just going through it, Like eleven was the last? No, No,
We won it in eleven, and then after eleven, what
was it?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
In sixteen?

Speaker 8 (53:19):
We made the playoffs? Sixteen was horrible, and then we
made it again in twenty two. Like you see the
gap here. And in between those two those two playoff
friends was horrible football. And it's like we get players

(53:39):
like you just said right, Arguably, we had Barkley who
was arguably one of the top running backs, we had Beckham,
arguably one of the top wideouts, and we could not
do anything. We consistently missed on on players tackles the
way like you know, going back how Eli's last couple
of years were where the line was crashed and it

(54:01):
was just like, what is going on with the organization?

Speaker 5 (54:05):
Now?

Speaker 8 (54:07):
I was always a big Daniel Jones fan from the
Danny Dimes minia that went on from his first what
was that his first preseason game when he was accurate
out of this world and it was like, oh man,
we might have found Eli's replacement. And then that fell
apart and it was just like it could not get right.

(54:27):
And now he's over there having all of his success,
and it's like, damn, man, what is going on with
this organization? Like why is it so hard to hit
on players? Where like we missing on on coaches coach
carousel every other year. Then we finally settled in on
one and dude, we got two quis I mean sometimes

(54:49):
though you could do is laugh at it. But it's like,
this is not how this team is supposed to be.
Like Desta Lawrence is one of the top d tackles
in the league. Our defense on paper right arguably a
top tier defense, and we can't stop I don't even
want to curse, man, but you know, we can't stop
nothing but offense. For the past couple of years we

(55:13):
have had a problem scoring. All of a sudden, we
can manufacture on seat some touchdowns, but now we can't
even stop it. We can't stop anything on defense. Last
year at least the defense was doing something and that shit,
we can't.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
It's just like.

Speaker 8 (55:29):
What is going on? Then, like you have a I
don't want to put everything on table because I mean,
I'm anna coach myself, man, so I know how it goes.
But it's just like what is going on where you
lose Winks, right, and then you hear the rumblings, you
hear the rumors, and you know how it goes where
it's smoked this fire or however the saying goes. But

(55:52):
it's like you lose Wink, you lose that decordinator, and
then Gafter comes in and there was the rumblings of
how he would, you know, so fit to whatever when
Casko would make a call and he would want to
change it, and then if the call doesn't go right,
he's flipping on Casta And it's like, I just want
us to just go back to just being a good organization,

(56:13):
developing our players correctly right, and winning some damn football games.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Man, No, Mike, Mike, I'll put it this way. I
think the answer for me that I've learned over the
course of I've been here since two thousand and seven,
so I've been through some really good teams and some
really not so good teams. It's never just one thing, right,
I think a lot of times, and we've had this
conversation a million times. Well, if you just change you
get rid of Pat Schirmer, everything's gonna be better. If
you just if you just changed the quarterback, everything's gonna

(56:39):
be great. If the offensive line just finally starts playing better,
everything's gonna work. Just get a better defensive coordinator, everything's
gonna be fixed. Yet, over the course of this stretch
that you're talking about, you've seen changes or improvements in
every one of those spots where things have gotten better.
But the results don't change. So to your point, I
think it's a very whole realistic thing. And it goes

(57:01):
back to the draft conversation Matt we're having a little
bit while ago. You just have to keep drafting good players,
build out a solid team from top to bottom, and
then eventually the wins will come. And until you start
winning more games, Mike, that's what it kind of looks like, right,
Things are always changing. Guys are yelling at each other,
Guys get mad, Guys fight. When you constantly lose, that's

(57:24):
going to happen. You will not find many super smooth,
well run teams that consistently win five games a year.
Like that's just not how it works. If you lose games,
it's human nature. This is the type of stuff that's
going to happen. So you have to start winning games.
How do you start winning games by drafting well right
and bringing in good people and having good coaches and

(57:44):
all that.

Speaker 8 (57:45):
No issue with with our coaching, Mike.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Like I said, it's never just one thing. It's never
just one thing. It's everything altogether, absolutely right.

Speaker 8 (57:55):
I Mike appreciate jobs.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I mean it's hard for me to put I can't
put a finer point on it because it's just been
so many different things.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Yeah, I mean, look, I know it's kind of cliche,
but like there's a reason why every single week the
conversation is about playing complimentary football because it's not just
one thing that's going to win you a game or games.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Have a successful season. It's everything working together. And that
goes beyond just the field as well. That goes with
the whole collaboration process between the front office and the
coaching staff. Like it takes everyone to put together a
you know, I'm not even gonna say functional because you
want to be above that organization. You need everything working
together and working well and everything like kind of hitting

(58:40):
Like if you if one aspect of the process completely fails,
it doesn't matter how good the other one is, the
whole thing is gonna come apart. And that's what we've seen.
Back to my point before, you could draft really good players,
if the coaches don't develop them properly, it doesn't matter.
If you draft the good players. Yeah, you could have
a great offense, but if your defense is awful and
can't stop the team, you're not gonna win game. What
do we talk talk about this offseason? Perfect example, the

(59:01):
Giants pass rush is going to be awesome. Well, guess
what if you can't stop the run and you can't
cover anybody, it doesn't matter a whole damn lot if
you have a really good pass rush. That's what we learned.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Yeah, we said if the Giants, at one of the
points that you said before the examples, the Giants just
had the quarterback, then everything would be fixed. Well, at
least in seven games, it's looked like the Giants have
had the quarterback. Yeah, what's the record in those seven games? Thought,
because it's not complimentary football, you can't just rely on
one thing to expect to carry you to wins, multiple wins,

(59:38):
championships like. It takes everyone working together and working well.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
It's probably the best offensive one of the Giants of
that since twenty twelve. Yeah, maybe twenty sixteen. Let me
say you look back at those the last two Super
Bowl teams of the Giants. What was the glare at
least in terms of the players or coaches. Where was
the glare and weakness?

Speaker 8 (59:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (59:57):
There wasn't It was everyone was at the very least solid,
if not great, at their position, and everyone played together
and they played complimentary football. You had a good defense,
you had a solid offensive line, you had Eliott quarterback,
the running backs between Bradshaw and Jacobs, the various wide receivers.
Obviously a little different between O seven and eleven, but
it was everyone working together and playing together, and a

(01:00:19):
front office that meshed with the coaching staff and worked
well and collaborated. All that came together and it led
to two Super Bowl championships. And that's you just got
to keep building and try to build that out and
just it takes time, too much time, No argument, no argument,
but that's that's really all you can do. You can
rush it. If you try to rush it, that's when
you start getting yourself into bad situations. So it is

(01:00:41):
what it is. This was fun side that, Yeah, what
was it? Play to do it again? Sometimes? Absolutely? Giants
and Lions again, folks, a lot of good stuff coming
your way. We're on WFN with Big Bill Kickoff live
Saturday Tomorrow, Saturday morning, seven am. Mark Mlusis and I
take your calls, talk Giants football, and then we have
our pregame show at eleven am on Sunday on the
fan here in New York. Tiki Barber and I get

(01:01:02):
you ready for kickoff at one o'clock. I mentioned it before.
Go check out the Giants Total podcast is up this week.
I talked to Isaiah Hodgins about his whirlwind the week
last week, his game over the weekend, and then of
course the game against the Lions. We have a good
lines previewing there Mike Kafka with Bob Pop is well.
You can find that on your favorite podcast platform. And
the video of the Hodgs interview is on all of
other stuff, whether it's the app, Giants dot com, Giants

(01:01:25):
YouTube channel, and also on Giants TV by the way,
which you should download and stream on any of your
smart TVs, Roku, Apple TV, whatever one you have. Go
download it as all our highlights, all of our shows,
all that good stuff. Go check it out on Giants TV.
That's all the time you have for a big blue
kickoff live on this Friday. It's all brought to you
by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle to Giants, coming to
you live from the Hackensack Meridian Health podcast studio. Keep

(01:01:47):
getting better for Sidetek. I'm Schmelck. We'll talk to you
this weekend. Have a good one.