Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/24 I Lions Review and Another Change

John Schmeelk and Shaun O’Hara review the Giants’ game against the Lions, chat about another change in the coaching staff, and take calls from fans. 

0:00 - Lions review and another change

31:54 - Dexter Lawrence

34:57 - Calls

41:09 - The defense

51:06 - Some positives

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue kickoff line. Nobody can
ever tell you that you couldn't do it because you're
on giants dot com. Do you know what I saw?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Do?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
York Giant Crack and the Giants Mobile the final one
time Down, a part of the Giants podcast Network.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Let's go on.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hello, everybody, Welcome to Monday's Big Blue Kickoff Live presented
by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the Giants. I
am John Schmelke is Sean o'harrowar in the Hacking Sack
of Brity Health podcast studio Keep getting Better. Sorry for
a few minutes tardy on the start time here, but
showing ran into some much more important people in the
cafeteria than we are.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
So you'll jump on that. I'll jump on that grenade.
That was all me.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
You also through the grenade, I think actually.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
I think I threw it and fell on it. Yeah,
so my apologies. Sometimes, you know, you get commandeered unexpectedly
and there are you know, there's ale in.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
This building and I am not the top of that total.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
I'm pretty low on it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
But lower than you, mister super Bowl Champions.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
When when somebody, when somebody up on top of the
totem pole, stops and sits down with you. You can't.
You can't just bail. No, that is correct, So I
do the right thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
We did have some news this morning show, and I
will talk about the game, though I'm not sure how
much more I have to say about it because I
feel like we've just watched the same game with teams
of different uniforms for about four weeks. Now.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
You want to keep chewing on that.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
But we'll figure that out. Let's let's talk about the
news first. The Giants deciding this morning and Mike Kafka,
in consultation with Joe, Shane and all ownership, everybody in
the building, which all decisions are made here, in consultation
with everybody, decide to move on from Shane Bollen defensive coordinator.
It will be Charlie Bowen, who has never been a
coordinator before, never call plays before. Has mostly been a

(01:48):
linebackers coach in Miami and then in Arizona under Brian
Flores in Miami, and then he was under Vance Joseph
in Arizona, UH and is the Giants outside linebackers coach here,
so he coaches the edge players Keveon tibetaua Abdul quarter
or Brian Burns that group. He will end up being
the play caller moving forward for the final believe, not

(02:08):
only five games of the regular season. I can't believe
we're that far along. Still no bye week, by the way,
we save another week before we get to that. But
Giants decided to make a change here Sean. And look,
we've been through the ins and outs and the details
and all that stuff, and look, I can't find an
obvious thing that it's Oh, if you just do this
one thing differently, things will be right.

Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Maybe some more creative blitzes, maybe some more stunts on
passing down stuff like that. Sure, but the bottom line
is that the results just were not there. I mean,
you just go through the number of points that this
Giants team has given up over the past few weeks,
and this is the most basic analysis possible. But I
think at some point basic analysis is all you need.
The Giants in their last six games, Shawn had given

(02:51):
up thirty three, thirty eight, thirty four, twenty four, twenty
seven and thirty four, and had leads in a lot
of four fourth quarters and continually let them slip away.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Woof Yeah, And look, I think the fourth quarter. I
think that is really why we're having this conversation right now,
because there was a stretch where I think it was
five games. There are three games they'd given up over
one hundred points in each of those games. And you know,
it's not one of those games where man like we're
trying to play catch up the entire game. These are

(03:23):
games that we had leads in going into the fourth
quarter and we just we blew it. We didn't find
a way to close out the game. So that is
very frustrating, you know. Obviously, Look, it's always you know,
this is the hard part of the business is when
guys get fired. And while I don't think anybody is
surprised by the news and what happened with Shane Bowen

(03:43):
being let go, you know it's it's kind of ironic
the reasons why he's being let go. And you know,
I used to do a show with Brian Billick, the
former head coach of the Baltimore even Super Bowl winning
head coach, and he used to always have this saying
that the things they hire you for are the things
they fire you for. They hired Shane Bowen because he
had a top fifteen run defense in Tennessee, and he

(04:05):
was really good in the red zone, and those are
the things that we can't we're not very good at.
So when Nabel brought him in here, it was all right, man,
we're gonna stop the run. We're gonna be really good
at that. We can't. We can't stop the run. And
the fact that Jamiir Gibbs rattled off a sixty nine
yard run on the first play of overtime that I
think was the nail on the coffin.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
And by the way, two other forty plus jard runs
besides that.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, three runs that Jamior Gibbs had, and you know
one of them they had actual offensive lineman in there.
But that has happened far too often. Even before the
Detroit game, we've been talking about the big runs that
we have allowed.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And the thing about is Sean, it wasn't on the
edge just time they've been getting killed on the edge.
These ones were right up the gut.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
Yeah, And to your point, it's not one guy, like
if it was just one situation or one player or
one scheme. It's a culmination of all it.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
No, it happens against Nickel defenses. That happens against the
Giants base defenses. It happens with five man fronts four
men front that. There is not a common thread here
between these run issues.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
No, And to your point, like the Giants were in
their base defensive personnel on that big run by Jamior Gibbs,
not the one that he scored, It was the one
that he was knocked out of bounds. I'd like the
three yard line, So they were in base defense in
that and then then the other big runs they were
in nickel, So you know, why are they nickel? And
it's like, well, you're trying to match up you know,
their personnel.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
If the lines were all three wide receivers, you can't
put a linebacker over the slot.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
And our nickel package. I feel like it's it's changing.
When Michael McFadden went down, we still have not found
a valid replacement for him, like Daris Mussou was could
not do what Michael McFadden could do. And then we
saw Flanning in Foles he was in there and he
went out he you know, with a neck injury. So
you know, we have guys that are playing that other
linebacker position that really would not be starting if it
had it not been for multiple injuries. So you got

(05:46):
that going on. I thought there were a number of
times in this game against Detroit and this season where
our safety insert has been really poor, and it's the
angles as they're coming down to support the run. The
angles have been so poor. Data a couple.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well, Belton missed it, just sled up, missed at tackle
run and then Holland had a bad angle on the
other one.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, Holland had a bad angle. I think on the
very last, that last touchdown run he came screaming down
and was out of position. Danme Belton did actually, yeah,
Delton was on the one in overtime.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Holland a Holland as she had a run blitz. He
actually was run blitzing off the edge on the big
one in overtime he got picked up.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
And then yeah, and the big run against the base personnel,
it was actually Darius Alexander that got out of position.
He had the backside B gap and he got scooped
by the backside block and that's exactly where Jamier Gibbs
hit it in that backside be gap. So it as
good of a game as Darius Alexander had with two
sacks that one play, the defensive tackle on the backside
not staying in the big gap ended up with a

(06:44):
huge run. So that's why, you know, defense it's tough.
You know when you look at you know, why is
this scheme not working? Why is this not happening? As
soon as one guy lose their gap integrity, boom, it's
out the gate. Like the NFL, those running backs hit
that hole so quick, and if they hit a hole
and somebody has lost that gap, they are to the
safety quicker than that safety anticipated because he thought somebody
was gonna be in that gap. So that's why I

(07:06):
think we're seeing these bad angles that we're talking about,
because somebody lost their gap integrity up on the front
and now all of a sudden, they're hitting it before
the safety. It was expected in the bet.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
And I talked to Nuban about this. We did an
interview on the Johnsttle podcast a couple of weeks ago,
and he said, look, as a safety, if you know
where the guys on the first and second levels are
gonna be, you can fire quickly and get to the
right spot right. But if you don't know if they're
gonna have their correct leverage, it's gonna mess you up

(07:37):
and you have to hesitate, and then you're gonna get
through your spot late and then your angle sticks and
then a guy breaks it out and Sean and you're right.
I on the first one, first forty nine yard run,
I have everyone blocked, and then Holland tough angle. That
was the one in base defense. And then I'll I'll
get to the other two in a second. But I
think it's something that you've seen and I said this

(07:57):
the Tiki on the postgame show yesterday. If you have
an eight yard run, it's the defensive lineman's fault, right
if you give it a forty and fifty yard runs. Look,
is the defensive line partly responsible for that, sure, but
eventually the guys on the second and third level you
have to keep it to a ten or fifteen yard gainier.
You can't let him run for forty.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, you can minimize the damage if you come up
and make it stop, make a tackle. I think that
play that where Javon Holland was, you know, it kind
of had a bad angle. I think that was the
one Okaake jumped around the block by Penney Seol Penne
came down and you know, Penne just kind of threw
him out of the club and it opened up that
huge void and that's why Javon Holland was kind of
he was kind of sideways as he was turning the
run against the When we were in base defense, we

(08:37):
actually had eight guys in the box, and as an
offensive lineman, like one of the things we actually love, like, look,
if you want to jam the box up, like, okay,
you have eight guys in the box, you got a
one single high safety. You got two corners out there.
If we pop that and we're now we're up to
the safety, like it's to the house. So the a
man front. While everybody talks about, hey man, we got
to get the ama in front of there stop the run,

(08:59):
we always kind of looked at it like if we
could pierce that eight man box, it's probably gonna be
house call because that safety is in the middle of
the field and it's tough for him to make a
tackle on an electric guy. Jamior Gibbs is a special
running back. And look, Detroit is a really good they're
a good football team, you know, the bottom line, and then.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
The top five offense in the top five defense yards per.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
Game They're one of the best teams in the NFC,
one of the most physical teams in the NFC, and we.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Weaz the way they'd be out of the playoffs if
it started.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
We led that entire game. They didn't take the lead
until overtime. So you just think about that, like, how
how is it that a two and nine team can
look that good for sixty minutes and then in the
first thirty seconds of overtime everything just unreaded.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, I won't say they look great for all of
the fourth quarter, how about they looked great for fifty minutes.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
Well, that drive with the end of the fourth quarter,
you know, I mean there were some penalties that helped
out with that, but he.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Also the forty nine yard run earlier in the quarter too.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Right, fourth quarter? Yeah, I mean, so they were they
were leaky at times with that, but as you felt
like this is a game that we should win, like
it was in control.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
And it's the same story we've said every game.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah, it's Bill ned Groundhog Day. It's like we've seen
this movie before and we know how it ends. It
happened in Dallas, happened in Denver, we saw it in Chicago,
and here we are again, I guess Detroit so's It's
very frustrating, you know for Charlie Bollen. What a great opportunity.
I mean, look what Mike Kafka has done with this

(10:25):
opportunity already. You know, Look, I'm sure we'll get in
the conversation about whether or not he should have taken
a field goal, you know, down a fourth and six
on the fourth and goal from the six. But Mike
Kafka has been in unbelievable control and command as an
interim head coach. I'm very impressed with his decisiveness, his poise,

(10:46):
how he handled everything leading up to the game, even
the postgame press conference, and just this offense was fun
to watch, Like, I can't remember it's been a while since,
you know, the Skataboo and Jackson Dark take their shirt
off after beating the Eagles on Thursday five Ball, and
I was like, man, football is fun. The Gadget plays
were on fire, and who would have thought it was
gonna be Jameis Winston mossing somebody and then stumbling in

(11:09):
in the end zone and making an unbelievably athletic catch.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Dude, he could have been on the bass segment on
that one, and then he could have been on the
angry run segment running through the line.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was. I mean, Kyle Brandt better have
that on there at some point. And then how about
the Eli Ask play where you know the defender is
on him, has him. I thought it was a sack
and you know it was Andrew Thomas's guy that kind
of jumped on him, and then he breaks free from
rolls to the left and then he fought I think
it was Hodgens that he hit down the field or
I'm not sure who might have been that was. That

(11:43):
was a phenomenal play, you know, but the start, the
start was exciting. It's exactly what you want when you're
on the road. Four plays and and you throw a
touchdown to Wanda Robinson, who by the way, you know
that trick play toss flee flicker like flee flicker. It's
one of those plays where you're like you hold your
breath when you call the play because you're like, this
could either be really good or really bad.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
And by the way, it almost was. If Jamis doesn't
evade that, I don't know how he saw that guy
coming at him to avoid him. That was an unbelievable play.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
He looked like Neo from the Matrix the way he
was like he kind of dodged that guy's he was
throwing it. And give credit to John Michael Schmid, he
he kind of rallied back. He you know, they did
the fake toss to the right and the center leaks
over there so that he can kind of be there
protect Jamis just for that situation, but for Devin Singlitary,
he made a heck of a throw too. Everything had
to work in concert, but he did the one thing

(12:32):
that I don't know if anybody's given one Dale enough
credit for, is he sold that play because it's a
toss and as he he he was jogging in and
trying to make it look like he was coming in
to dig out the safety. Next time you watch that play,
just watch him how he's just lollygag and jogging. He
had to sell that like I'm hey, it's not a
pass play. And then as soon as the safety cleared him,
boom he took.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Off and that safety, by the way, he wasn't he
a no no, He was like, at the hell going
out of that line.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
They cut to him on the broadcast and they showed
him on the sideline talking to DVIIs Cord and he was like, I.

Speaker 6 (12:59):
Don't I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Like they were like, what did you see? Did you
not see the receiver? He was like, I was downhill,
I was going I was going to seek and destroy.
I did not see the little guy run right by me.
But wandlle sold it. Give him an Emmy and then
just you know, that's an unbelievable way to start. You
could the energy on that sideline, you know, on the
road to score like that. You know, it's it's pretty impressive.

(13:23):
With the Giants have done on opening drive touchdowns this
year and two wins to show for it is very
you know, that is very disappointing.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, And going into this year, if I would have
told you the offense has done what it's done, I
think both those would have thought this team was playoff down.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, because coming into the season, we felt like this
is gonna this We're gonna be a defense driven team, right,
like our defense is going to carry us. You know,
they're they're gonna be holding teams to fifteen points and
can we score twenty points? That was the key, the
key and even in the preseason we started that. Man,
this offense is the production is there? I mean we
scored thirty points in Buffalo in the first preseing game
and you felt like, all right, the offense is starting

(13:59):
to click. This could be so up and now. And
to put a five hundred yards of offense on the
road against Detroit, that's pretty impressive, you know, and with
no MI League neighbors, no campskad with new Jackson Dart.
I got to give credit to Jameis Winston. I mean,
he he bawled out. He had an unbelievable game. He
outplayed Jared Golf in his own buildings.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
He did.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
And Jameis Winston in the red zone that throw to
Isaiah Hodge in the back of the end zone, it's great.
That was superb. That is that is clinic technique and
clinic taping tape, teaching tape on what you do in
the red zone as a quarterback. You throw that high
ball over the zone and our guy goes up and
gets it or it's incomplete.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
And he tried a ball and he tried to do
that to Theo Johnson later in the game. But Rocky
you Sin, I think it was Rocky Sin just got
his hand up there and knocked it away before he
coul get there.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Yeah, that would have been a sick catch by THEO.
You know, he had a couple of great catches too.
He had that in another sideline catch where he got
his feet down. Rate catch phenomenal. So he's I mean,
he's definitely coming to his own. He's having a career
high season. Obviously, he's got five touchdowns, so you know,
and then look the run game. What I gave credit
for Mike Kafka to sticks with it. He was patient
because early on it was like run first down, run second,

(15:03):
third and nine like we got one yard.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Games were in the first half, the running game.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Was just awful, no movement, didn't get anywhere. And then
all of a sudden second half, hey man, all a
sudden singletary pops one.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
All right.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Also see a lot of polers.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
You could see him. We're kind of starting to wear
them down a little bit. So I give credit for that.
I think what is kind of inverse. What you normally
think is you run to set of the pass. I
feel like Kafka has been passing, which is setting up
the run. Well, he is from the yes, so it's
it's working, and in the second half some of those
runs when they were starting to hum and they were
starting to get teeth.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, look, I'm with you. I thought the line did
a pretty good job protecting against what's a pretty good
lines pass rush. They had some pressure here there. I
actually thought Andrew Thomas had some trouble with Alcadee Mohammad,
to be honest with.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
You, Yeah, which was ironic because I feel like Aiden
was on Ilumin or Hudginson was on Alumini most of
the time, and.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
This was, you know, like that was by design, by
the way.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
I think Alumino gave up more pressures in this game
than he'd given up in a game all season long,
pass correction wise, but given who he was going against,
they didn't have a sack until the final play.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
It wasn't a lot of quick pressures though. They they
made him work.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, they were. They were kind of late, like in
the pocket things, you know. I thought the offensive line
played really well. Greg Van Rodin at a phenomenal game.
I thought JMS played really well too.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
I thought GVR as a polar was great in this game.
They used him a lot on those poles on those runs.
I thought he was great as a polar and Bell
and jer by the way, as a fullback. Yeah, he
played full back more than he played tight end of
that game, I feel like.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, I thought Belly did a great job. You know,
there was some we ran a lot of weak counterplays.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
There was even a couple of players we pulled the
guard and the tackle. Andrew Thomas was getting involved in that.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
So yeah, a little counter trace stuff, right.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
It definitely looked like there was some different scheme with
the run game as well, which I liked. It wasn't
just the same hey, running backs to your left, you know,
it's a three wide run play out of shotgun where
the running lanes just shrink and seem to collapse right away.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Two things before we get to the calls here, Sean one,
The offense was great, Jamis was awesome. They only scored
seven points in the fourth and second half of the game,
and that's the problem. They had over two hundred and
fifty yards of offense in the second half, only they
only had seven points. Well, let's have that discussion because
this is another week where in the red zone the

(17:12):
Giants have not been as good as you need to be. Okay,
I would have liked after you got it was first
of goal at the four, you get two yards on
first down, I would have ran it again. Yeah, and
I'm no, I'm talking to mister run the ball in
the red zone guy over here with the pleasures. By
the way, if theo Johnson doesn't kind of stumble out
of his break a little bit, that's probably a pass
that that that's on the mark for a score. And ironically,

(17:34):
on the Giants last drive in overtime, you know Jamis
overthrew Wandell a little bit on that little pass towards
the sideline. Wandell had to at the top of his
route avoid Hodgens. I think it was coming on the
post and it made him hesitate just a little bit
out of his break. And I bet you if he
doesn't have to hesitate there, that pass might actually be
on the money anyway. But back to the red zone

(17:55):
thing then, Aiden Hutchinson, I don't know if they talked
about this on TV broadcast. I was listening to Bob
and Carl that third and goal with the two play
where they try to run it. They actually run a
couple of pullers on one of those plays to the
left hand side the singletary. Yeah, Aiden Hutchinson gets off
the ball so quickly on that play, Andrew Thomas can't
reach block them and he just completely blows up the play.

(18:16):
And then you get the fourth and goal to six.
And here's the thing. Normally, normal team, I might kick
the field goal there. Here's the problem. I've seen this
defense give up a touchdown late. When you can't give
up a touchdown late to lose the game. Ye, so
many times this year I was okay, trying to go
for the score there to finish the game.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Yeah. Well, look on a macro level the fourth down,
fourth quarter production for the Giants offensively, that's been one
of the reasons why they're losing these games because when
you have a lead, a ten point lead in the
fourth quarter and your offense goes out there, you should
be able to run your four minute offense and never
put your defense back out on the field. So by
having that closing ability like enter Sam Man, the song

(18:55):
comes on, Mario Rivera comes storming in, and you close
it out. And they have not been able to do that.
So that's this has been an issue all season long.
But to your point, you've got you've got a three
point lead, you lose four yards on that third down play.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
It's brutal.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
And now it's like, I'm there are two schools with
thought here. Okay, hey, I like the aggressiveness. Okay, let's
let's talk about that side of it. Mike Kekas said,
I'm going to be aggressive, and look, why not. You've
got two wins. Would like you have nothing to lose
here by being aggressive and going for it. But there
is a difference between being aggressive and being reckless. Fourth
and goal from the two. I'm all in, go for it,

(19:34):
and you know what, you don't get it. Now they're
on the two yard line or the one yard line,
Like I get it, and I think everybody would have
been more at ease with that decision. Fourth and six.
Fourth and goal on the six is a totally different
can of work. That is different. Especially what did you
say the Giants have struggled in the red zone offensively
all year? That is not if we were the second
best red zone offense in the league. I think the

(19:56):
statistics are in your favor. And now it's you know what,
We're going to go.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
For it goal to since you take the run out
of the equation, which makes it so tough.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
So now you're one dimension. Everybody knows you're throwing it.
And you know what, we don't have a guy that
you know what we Oh, we got man Covers over there.
We got a mismatch. Like who on our team right now?
Would you say one man Covers? I'm throwing it to
him in ninety percent of the time, it's going to
be a touchdown, Like, we don't have that. I watched
the Rams the other night. They get in the red of
Devonte Adams. I mean he's running by people and Matthew

(20:25):
Stafford is dropping buckets in the back of the end zone. Yeah,
it's like, we don't have that guy. So I feel
like in that moment, if you kick the field goal,
now you are forcing Detroit to have to score. They
have to score a touchdown. You can't they can't just
take all the time off the clock. They can't methodically
march down the field and put themselves in position to
kick a field goal. We've seen that before. We saw

(20:47):
it in Dallas, we saw it in Detroit like that
would have taken that off the table. And now you
force them into being one dimensional offensively because now they
have to throw the ball. They've got to find a
way to get in the end zone, and I think
that would of just that would have changed the way
that Detroit ran their last possession.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I agree. At the end of that game, I agree
as well, but I will add this, did you have
any confidence if the Giants kicked the field well there
that they would be able to stop the Lines from
scoring a touchdown?

Speaker 4 (21:16):
I had more confidence in them not giving up a
touchdown than I did. If we don't get it, are
are we going to be able to stop them from
kicking a field goal?

Speaker 1 (21:25):
I agree with that too, but it.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
Was hey, they got to go down score a touchdown,
or hey they got to get to the thirty five
yard line and to get in a field goal range.
I would have said, give me, give me the defense
holds them out, maybe you get a lucky play, maybe
a tip ball, maybe a sack. I don't know, but I.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Think the lines changes. The lines would have been more
aggressive though. I think if they knew they needed a touchdown.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Would have changed some of their play call, which, you
know what, who knows what could happen? Yeah, those are
I mean, those are all the things that you got
to make and you got to make them. You know,
I think you have a mindset going into the game
because you you've only got thirty seconds to make that decision.
Really probably less than that, correct, So you go into
the game like, here's what I'm going to do. If
we have a chance to go for the win, I'm

(22:05):
going for the juggler and I'm going to do it throughout,
and that my mind is made up before that decision
even comes.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
To Well, my guess in your hand is that he's
sitting there a third and til it's all right, fourth
and goal of the two. If we don't get it here,
I'm going to go for it again, right, But then
you have to compute what that minus four on third
down does for you, not even thirty second showing you
have what ten seconds? Yeah, I think make that decision.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
And when they got down in the four yard line, right,
so it his first and goal at the four.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I think he's already thinking I'm just trying to score
a touchdown.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, they run the ball there, get two yards from Tracy.
Now it's second in goal at the two. And at
this point you're saying, I'm even like, if I have
to go forward on fourth down, I'm going for it
correct and then you lose four yards. So now instead
of it being fourth and two, it's fourth and six.
That I think is where you got to just say,

(22:52):
you know what, I wanted to go for this, but
I gotta take the points.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
And again, normally, Sean, I would absolutely agree with you.
Maybe I have been scarred by what I've seen this
year and that's why maybe it's swaying me too much,
But I think I wanted to give the offense had
been the best part of my team that day. Yeah,
they had got you to where you were going to go.
You have five hundred yards of total offense in the game.
I have more confidence in my offense being able to
close that game out than my defense.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah, and I think you're looking at it like, we
have a chance to slam.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
The door here, it was game over, Gaver, we.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Score a touchdown, it's yeah, that's it. Like and and
if that happened, even the Giants, James, if they found
a way to score in that moment. I mean, I
think Mike Kafka, you know, everybody's praising him right now
for having the stones to do that. So you know,
it's one of those lived by the sword, Die by
the sword situations, and you know, I think in his

(23:45):
you know, to Mike Kafka, like in his situation, it's like, no,
we're going for it, Like I'm not going to play conservative.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
I'm not gonna I think the players like that too, right,
I think.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
They respected it, you know. And I think the tough
thing with that whole situation is the loss of four
yards on third down was killing. Just crushed everything.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
And again, Aden Hunchson just got I don't know if
you watch that back yet, but the way he gets
off the ball on that play, watch it. He is
in the backfield before the offensive line even moves. That's
how quick he is.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Back here, it felt like they didn't say Hutchinson's name
the entire game until that play and the sack at
the end. Really, I mean he was he was a
non factor.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah no, yeah, absolutely right. And the Giants did a good
job chipping him with tight ends and double teaming and
running back and stuff like that. So they did they
helped all. Right, final question before you get to the call,
Sean Shane Bowen has one extra day this week with
the Monday night game against the Patriots, then he has
a bye week. You mean Charlie what I say, shame Yeah, Chamber,
Charlie Bullen, pardon me, Charlie Bullen has one extra day
this week and the bye week next week. He has

(24:39):
some time to put his own little twist on the defense.
You're not gonna have a completely new scheme. You're not
gonna have a completely new approach. You cannot do this
at this point of the year. What are one or
two or three small tweaks or twists you would like
for him to put into the scheme that you think
could help this defense just be a little bit better
down the stretch.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, good question. I don't think he's going to reinvent
the wheel, because the last thing you want to do
is start putting in all these different schemes or packages
where guys are aren't used to the run fits and
now you're giving up a big, a big run. One
of the things that I feel like has showed up
time and time again this season is we are stunting
the defensive line a lot, And on that run in

(25:19):
overtime that Jamier Gibbs touchdown run, we slanted the entire
d line away from the tight end. They were stunting weak,
so everybody was like, where's Dexel Lawrence. Why is dex
Lawrence out there? That wouldn't matter because guess what Davidson
was in there for Dexor Lawrence. And you know what
he did. He was lined up over the center. He
slanted to the left and right.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
And the reason they slanted left because I believe they
had Holland run blitzing away from the slant. So he
was filling away from where the guys were slating.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yeah, he was coming down, but they kind of got
caught like because he didn't really he didn't really blitz.
And I feel like that slant and those situations, you're
giving up an opportunity for a big run if you
slan the entire defensive line away from where you're running.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
It.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Now, all of a sudden, you're asking us safety to
come down. He has to defend more space because the
david lineout has slanted. So I think that that may
be something that we see a little bit different. I think,
you know, just kind of looking at on third down,
I thought we would be a lot more creative with
some of the packages. You know, we we talked about
it in the preseason, and hey, what we got Abdul Carter.

(26:22):
We got burns. You know, Thibodeau has been out obviously,
so that changes things.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, the problem is that wide receiver picks them right up.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, and see how okay okay jumps around sewol But
Dame Belton should be kind of coming down, you know it.
It opened up right down the middle.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I didn't realize my whole line is slanting.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Hold slanted. So if Dexter Lawrence is in there, he's
slanting away from the run like you know, it's we
kind of we slanted kind of right into our hands.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Phillips have to be a little bit quicker.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Absolutely aggressive. Go you got to go attack that guy.
And you know, you got to shrink those running lanes.
And there's way too much room for Gibbs on that.
So I think, you know, obviously first and second down,
I think you've got to do a better.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Job were building getting.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Safeties down there. You know, maybe maybe you don't have
them so deep to start, so they can get down
in the box quicker and it gives them better angles
to make the tackles. But I think on third down,
I thought we would be a little more exotic. I
thought we would have to see a little more fronts
with hey, Abdul Carter or Brian Burns moving around. We
saw more of that earlier on in the season. I
feel like we've kind of gotten away from that because

(27:29):
you know, a guy.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Like Burns a little bit because you have him on
the edge.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
But you know what Robertson, you know, Harris like he
you can move him out at defensive end, you can
you can put him in Burns the spot and then
now move Burns around and just you know, kind of
make make some different angles for him, create some different
attack points for him, and even for Abdul Carter. But
I think one of the biggest challenges that I mentioned is,

(27:54):
like MIKEL McFadden going down, we have not found an
avid replacement for him. And when we're when you're a
Nickel I used to love, you know, when I be
standing in the hall round, I'm watching the personnel and I'm
telling Eli, Hey, they're in base base defense, base three four,
base three four. As soon as they win, Nickel, I'm like, yes, hey, Eli, Hey,
we got it. We're gonna we have a six man
box running the ball. We got because we got their
lighter linebacker, We got a linebacker off and we got

(28:16):
now a nickel nickel slot corner that's in there, that's
going to be trying to stop the run.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's why those big nickels like Kyle Hamilton and ware
on Seattle, they could do both. That's what makes those
guys so valuable.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, so you know, I don't know, I mean, you know,
maybe now maybe Dame Belton needs to be more of
that nickel guy. Well he's more physical, he's more of
a thumper, more of a downhill guy.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
And you need Nubian back to do that.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
By the way, Yeah, Nuban being out of the neck.
I mean, look, Numan was out, a Diebo was out,
Tate Banks was.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Out, So kills the whole secondary.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Really Yeah, I mean you're you're you're playing shorthanded almost.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
That you have to help. You can't leave Corey Black
out there on island. Cory Blado, he's a rookie six.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Front pick, and Corey doesn't know how to tackle yet.
Like he he comes in and slaps at the ball
and punches at it. He's not coming in like trying
to take somebody out. So it's you know, it's he
it's a different mindset with that.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
But he did not have a good tackle attempt on
that first touchdown run.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
No, No, he looked like he was, you know, an
old lady swaded somebody with the purse. So he's got
a he's got it, you know. But he's a rookie,
and you know what, he's been thrust into some action,
and I know he's been playing banged up and playing hurt.
But you know, I don't think it's you know, Charlie
Bullen's gonna come in here and completely change the scheme
and do all this stuff. But there will be some wrinkles,
you know. I think you know you mentioned the pressure.

(29:27):
You know, look first and second down, there are ways
to create some pressure without giving up the farm. And
you know, I think that's gonna be something where you know, look,
you've got an advantage because you're playing the Patriots, like
you said, you got an extra day, but they have
not seen what you're gonna do, so you get to
roll out some things that they don't have on film.
And the surprise factor is there, at least in the

(29:47):
first quarter.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
And there are two rookie offensive lineman got hurt in
that game, by the way, Jared Nelson got hurt, and
their rookie offensive tackle from LSU in the names is Williams. Yeah,
got hurt in that game.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
So not not getting sorry, not diving too much into
the Patriots, you know, but he's saying Drake May MVP, MVP.
He's leading the NFL in passing yards at least he
was before that Sunday night game, so I'm not sure
if that's changing into that. But he doesn't have a
three hundred ard game this season. He's not thrown for
three hundy yards one time.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
They don't have great weapon, so no.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Stefan Diggs is their leading receiver and Hunter Henry is
their second leading receiver. Now, he's been phenomenal. He's got
I think five touchdowns. He's kind of been their their
go to guy in the red zone. Trayvon Henderson is
I mean, he's a downhill runner. So again we got
another another tough running back. Drake May has been sacked
thirty seven times, which is second most in the league.
That's something that he will hold the ball. You would

(30:34):
not have thought given how productive they are and the
fact that they're ten and two. So that to me
plays riding the Charlie ball in's hands, Like okay, this
guy's eating the ball a lot, he's burping the baby.
We got to get pressure. This is a chance for
our defense to eat up front, and I think that's
got to be first and foremost. You know, when it's
third down, we got to make this guy think. We
got to get him off a spot, get him uncomfortable,

(30:56):
and I think that's the best way to try to
get a Winxborough.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
And look, I don't disagree with anything you're saying to me, though.
Eventually your best players got to win one on one
when they get one on ones, and the Giants, that's
defense other than Brian Burns, who has been great all year.
He didn't miss it. He did her that sack last week.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Nine times out of ten he makes that he does.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
And and he's made those plays all year. So this
is not me taking a shot at Brianbarts.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
They also they were chipping the heck out of him.
There were there were a couple of plays when kick
slide and he's like waiting for Burns to get to him,
because like Burns is like ten yards out is getting
and he's like, are you gonna come and rush or
what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
No, you're exactly right, and you know, eventually the other
guys have to start making more plays up front where
you where you've spent a lot of your resources. So
the Dexter Lawrence thing, I know, I promise like thatt
to your crawls, and I will. But if you touch
on the Dexter thing, because that was made a big
deal last night when all was said and done, I
believe and I will double check it right now. How
many plays he ended up playing in this game, Dexter Lawrence.

(31:51):
So the Giants on defense ran sixty nine plays. Dexter
Lawrence played thirty six them, so a little bit over
fifty percent of those plays. That includes plays they got
called back due to penalty, So the numbers on the
play by play might be a little bit different. But
you could tell, especially in the second half, that they

(32:11):
were trying to manage his snaps. Now they said after
the game, which we didn't know while the game was
going on, that he got nicked up and they were
just trying to get the most out of him. I
also think, Sean, that was as effective as I've seen
Dexter in the fourth quarter of a game, and I
wonder it's because he played instead of playing seventy percent
of the snaps. He was closer to fifty percent of
the snaps, so we just had more left in him

(32:32):
at the end of the game.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
Yeah, I think it's kind of that whole that new
term that we're all coming to grips with load management, right,
And I think it's that has infiltrated the NBA more
than the NFL. But I knew you'd get that because
you're you're a nick diehard. I think that there's definitely
something to that. And also, you know, Nunia's roaches had
a phenomenal sack in this game, and Darius Alexander had

(32:56):
two sacks in this game. Guess what happens? Like you're
used to leaning on Dexster. Dexter's like, you know, this
big heavy man, but then all of a sudden, boom,
these quick guys, shifty guys come in and all of
a sudden, it's a change of pace. So, you know,
I think it's it's kind of there's two elements to
that that you're keeping Dexter fresh, and then you're also
kind of getting some of these quick guys in there,
which gives the offensive line a little bit of a
different look. But yeah, I thought Dexter. You know, in

(33:18):
the fourth quarter there there was a couple of big
hustle plays. He was involved in them, a couple of pressures
to Actually the second the sack that Darius Alexander got
was because Dexter's pressure actually forced off out right into
his arm. So Dexter almost had the sack on that
play as well. And you know, I think, look, I
think Dexter, you know, I didn't see a play where
he got nicked up, you know, so I don't know

(33:38):
if it was, you know, obviously or his elbow last year.
I don't know if it was an upper body thing.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Or limited on practice on Wednesday, they have to list
the body parts, so we'll find out then.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Yeah. Yeah, but I think you know, dex Is you know, look,
he's a big dude, you know, I mean, he's massive,
so you know, he normally he plays a lot. So
I think, you know, this time of year, you know,
if they're trying to if taken him out for a
couple of series or giving him a couple of blows
early on in the game, second third quarter, of all
of a sudden that gives him a little extrare juice
in the fourth quarter, I think that's a smart move.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
And he has been better rushing the passer than stopping
the run this year. So if you're gonna pick and
choose when to have him in the game, I understand
why you would choose to play more in those passing situations.
All right, two one nine three nine four five one three. Sorry, folks,
with a lot to talk about here, we want to
make sure we get to We'll do about start a
five minutes late, so we'll go by five minutes long
on the show today. As we take calls with Sean I,

(34:30):
how are talking Giants lines? And the Giants going with
Charlie Bowen as their new defensive coordinator for the remainder
of the season. We're gonna lead things off with let's
go Antonio and Delaware first, Johnny mac Antonio, what's going on?

Speaker 7 (34:44):
Hey, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 (34:45):
We're good? Antonio? What do you got?

Speaker 7 (34:48):
Two points? One regarded the defense, the one one regarding
the off fights. To me, this is still a a
martin of defense. And you had sham Bowing in there
for two years. Then was an attacking defense. Boeing was

(35:09):
a break by don't break, band by don't break defense.
So you have a chaine of two for long doesn't
work with the players.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
No, but Antonio, here's the thing that Antonio real quick though.
If you look at the the eleven starters on defense
the last year, Shane Moon, last year, last year when
Martindale was here, compared to now, I believe there are
two players that overlap Dexter, Lawrence Kevon Thibodeaull and Bobby Okarec.
There should be three. So there are three guys that
overlap if you want to count Nacho and there are four.

(35:43):
That's fine. They've changed out the corners with Flood, who's
playing his best ball by the way, this year a
debo Holland to Nubin. Yeah, but he's not really playing
the rookie, you know what I mean, He's not the
third corner. Brian Burns is new. He was never here
with Link, Martin del Abdull. Carter's knew he was not
here with mcwin, were Roberson, Harris Holland. So they have

(36:03):
a lot of new players. Antonio was not the same
group of guys that was here the last year. Wink
was here. They've really redone the defense.

Speaker 7 (36:09):
To be honest with you, right point taken. But to me,
these players were more attacking and just sit back and react,
you know, like on the corners they are more getting
your face type of corners instead of playing all five
and ten yards.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
They weren't playing off against the Lions, right, I know
that right.

Speaker 7 (36:33):
So to me, his two best games was the Eagles
Maydi was attacking more and the Lions Reybi was attacking more.
But the other games he kind of just sat back
and left the offense dictate to them. And I think
that was where the problem lies, with more him not
attacking more.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
The way this defense was built, Antonio was to get
home with four guys so you can protect your secondary
a little bit. That's how the defense was designed in
terms of personnel and the way Bowen frankly worked his
defense in Tennessee.

Speaker 7 (37:08):
Okay, and my second point is is this crazy? But
the Giants offense a total yard total offense is ranked
higher than the Philadelphia's offense in total offense, and yet
still we have a losing record. I mean, he just
have avening record.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
All right, Antonio appreciate the call. Well, look, I mean
Philadelphia offense stinks. I mean I don't want to be
too like to direct about it. I mean the Eagles
right now, where they.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Beat them, I don't know where they are. But like,
the thing I would look at first with comparison to
Eagles is when they get in the red zone, like
they punch it in.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
They're the only team that's perfect in goal to go situations.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
This show, right, So there you go, that's the different.
They're not kicking field goals.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
They're twenty fourth in the league at three hundred and
three yards per game.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
If you're in fantasy football, all right, you're not taking
Jake Elliott as you're kicking out because you know that
they're not kicking. They're they're going for They've got the
tousch push thing going on, and basically once they get
down into the four yard line, they're they're running it
in like they're finding a way. So that that is
why you look at the stats and the stats you're
referring to our yards.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
I think it's great. I think it's great that the
Giants offense is this explosive and is that high up offensively,
because I don't think anybody thought that would be the
case coming in a season.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
But right now they're ranked eleventh.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Our red zone offense is ranked what.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Red zone offense is twenty ninth.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
Right, so for so we're the fourth worst red zone
offense in the league. So that right there is the
direct correlation to the wins and loss record and why
it's too intent.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, and if you look at points, if we're eleventh
in yards, we are three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
nine ten. This is great Radio eleven twelve thirty to
forty fifty eighteen nineteen twenty, I think twenty first on
my quick little look here at twenty two points per game.
So it shows the difference. You're not just not scoring
the touchdowns when.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
You yeah, yeah, it's red zone and you know, look also,
you know and you go down there and you know,
you go four on fourth down and you don't get it.
So now you come on with zero points. Gold not
even it's not even hey we didn't Hey we only
we had to sell for the field goal. We walked
away with zero points. That's that's that really hurts you.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Gold to Go, by the way, thirty first, the Giants
have scored touchdown Sean, what percentage of the Giants Gold
to Go situation? I think they've scored touchdowns on Oh god, no,
it's not that bad. Fifty it's fifty five percent, which.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Is what you're saying. What you're saying score, you're saying
touchdown touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Or touchdown, just touchdowns. So the Giants are fifty five percent.
The only team wars, oh my gosh, are the Saints,
who will have the worst goal to goal percentage I've
ever seen in my life at thirty one percent. Wow,
touchdown rates, which is just brutal.

Speaker 6 (39:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
And by the way, the Texans are next to last,
the thirty third to last thirty percent. The Jets are
sixty three percent, and then the Chiefs and the Cowboys
are at sixty four.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Or who are the top three in that category.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
To well, obviously the Eagles are one the only team
that's left that's undred percent, the Colts who are ninety
five percent, and the Packers that are ninety four percent.
Three powerful running backs and running games. Yeah with those
three teams.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
So yeah, you got you gotta run it in the
red zone when you get down there, you gotta find
a way.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah. Look, I think and look to Antonio's point, I
think you might see some more pressure again. Charlie Bowen
I made the point earlier. He came from working on
the floor as in Miami, and then he worked on
the vance Joseph in Arizona. Two guys that do bring pressure,
so we'll see if they do a little bit more.
But again I worry about that secondary Sean with all
those injuries holding up if you do bring a lot
of pressure, So we'll have to wait and see how

(40:39):
they handle that. Scott, New Mexico, what's up, Scott? That's
line too, Johnny Mack Scott.

Speaker 6 (40:43):
What's up, hi, guys. It was a great analysis by
both of you. I have been to a great with
you soon. In regards to the play, that specific play
in REGARDSS when score four and they should have gone
from the stale goal. Analytics say that you could have
done either. Maybe we're getting too much in constant listening

(41:06):
to analytics instead of listening to what I think they're
the smart place to do. That's an argument for another
another time right now. Right after Mike Coptis press conference,
he said he had the ultimate state in Shane Bowen,
and of course next day he's fired. And my question
really is this, you know, although your analysis, both of

(41:27):
yours is great on the game, two years from today,
no one's going to care. The reason being this is
a zero sum game. It's about wins and losses. This
is the first team eliminated out of the playoffs, and
you know the mandate is let's get into the playoffs
with the possibility of getting into a super Bowl and
winning it. And that's your job. When the season starts.

(41:48):
John's have failed. It doesn't matter how close the games are,
because they've shown the ability that they can't play four quarters.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
So that Scott to hear what you're saying, But you
have to analyze the game in detail. If you don't
figure out why either losing the games, you can't solve
the problems, right, Sean.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
I agree, But the problem to me is obvious and
that they can't stop the run. Didn't Detroit have over
close to two hundred and thirty yards? I think of
a rushing offense.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yea and Scott, we're not argue that one defense has
been a problem all year.

Speaker 6 (42:19):
Right, and that's it seems obvious. But my question goes
beyond that. When you're looking for a new head coach,
and I happen to like my topka, one of the
elements that you're going to look for, we are you
going to find the Sean Payton's or the Sewan Devas
or the Sean McDermott's. Well, maybe we just need to

(42:41):
have somebody named Sean as the coach. So so, and
maybe you should apply for the job. But the real
key is are we going to get the head coach?
We need to really redevelop that defense and still have
the ability to deal with the Jackson dark because obviously
you want to have a coach that can work with

(43:02):
somebody like that as he evolves in the NFL. So
I'm going to take this off the heere, but what
are the characteristics you really look for in a head
coach that might stemy sim of the things that went
on this season and have gone on for the last
two or three years. And what would you be looking
for both of you, because you're both great analytical people

(43:24):
and know a little bit more about the football scenarios
that exist in the NFL, what what are the keys
you're looking for in an NFL coach for next year? Thanks,
I'll take the question off here.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Yeah, thanks Scott. We appreciate you calling in and chiming in.
I think anytime you're looking at at a head coach,
there he has to be a coach that makes his
team accountable. And I think that's first and foremost players
have to be accountable to a high standard. And it's everything.
It's not just on the field, it's everything you do.

(43:58):
It's you've got to be accountable to behere you're spposed
to be when you're supposed to be there, and if
I can't, how you are in the weight room and
how you are in meetings and how you are outside
of the building is how you are on game day,
Like everything you do matters. So I think that is
that's paramount whenever you're looking at a head coach, because
the reality is as a head coach, you don't have

(44:20):
a position group, Like you're not working as much with
the x's and o's as an office coordinator is or
a defensive coordinator is. So you're kind of, you know,
you have to kind of set the tempo, set the
you know, you're like the disciplinarian and you kind of
set the mood and set the accountability factor for everybody.
And you know, coaches, I think you know have to
be accountable too. And I think every good head coach

(44:40):
will come up and say, look, I made some mistakes
or some things that I got to do better. But
I think that's always first and foremost. You know, I
think anytime you're looking at, hey, we're going to have
a head coach is going to come in an interview. Look,
he's selling himself and you're looking at him as a
head coach, but you're also looking at the staff that
he's bringing with him, like what kind of scheme are
you going to run offensively? And what kind of offense,

(45:03):
if coordinator are you bringing. Is it a run first offense?
You know, how are you how are you going to
handle the NFC East defensively? What's your scheme? What's your mindset?

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Like?

Speaker 4 (45:14):
So when you come in to interview for that, you
got to have those two guys in mind. Here's the
staff that I'm bringing with me, because you're you're hiring
that head coach based on who he's bringing with him.
You don't hire a head coach. And then all of
a sudden, Okay, now that you have the job, let's
see who you're bringing with you, Like they got to come, ready,
you got to come. You better come with a bunch
of resumes. These guys are on board, and these are

(45:34):
this is who I'm bringing with me. This is my
army of coaches that are going to implement everything that
I'm trying to execute as a head coach. I think
those are things that you're looking for. You need somebody
that's detail oriented, that has a philosophy with how obviously
you want to run the team, and you know it's
not always hey, here's here's how we're going to do things.

(45:56):
And that sounds great. What happens when it's not going well?
How are you handling a three game road and road loss?
How are you handling you know, a couple of tough weeks?
What kind of coach are you when that happened?

Speaker 1 (46:08):
We saw the Ben mcado. It looked great in twenty
sixteen when they were winning, yeah, and all of a
sudden things went bad and it fell off the rails
real quick.

Speaker 5 (46:14):
That.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
I mean, you're looking at that as your coaches and
your players too. It's like, hey, look everybody, you know,
when you're winning games, everything's honky door and everybody's hugging
in high five and it's great. But when things are
going bad, you know, what is your what is your
track record? How have you handled that? What kind of
coach do you become? Do you change?

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Then?

Speaker 4 (46:29):
Are you are you malleable with the environment that's around you.
So I mean those are all characteristics. I mean we
could sit here and mist them all, but this is
no doubt going to be something that you know, there's
gonna be no stone on turn with that. But you
know it's paramount that you find the right guy. And
it's tough. You look around the league. Look, there are

(46:49):
five coaches that get fired every year, and then every
year you see teams that say, hey, you know what,
we got to go pluck this guy from this team
that you know, look at Detroit, you know they lost
both their office and defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn's and with
the Jets and things don't look great right now for
him as his first headtime head coach, Ben Johnson in Chicago,
they didn't start out great, but you know, things have
gotten better for him. So you know, everybody's looking for

(47:11):
that new, younger guy. That's that's you know, got some
swagger to him, and you know he's chomping at the bit.
But I don't know if the Giants have that luxury.
I don't know if they can swing and miss on
a first time head coach again like that, like they
don't have that kind of patience with the fan base
at the moment.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, I'll add a couple of things because I think
you're right on Sean. There's a chance the head coach
might be able to take care of one of those
sides of the ball, you know what I mean, Like
Mike McDonald comes into Seattle. You're good on defense, right,
you don't have to worry about the defense winner. He's
gonna call the defense. You'll be fine, all right? But
then what does the other side of the ball look like?
So you look at if you're hiring a guy that's

(47:49):
a specialist on one side of the ball, what is
he doing on the other side of the ball, Especially
if you're hiring a defensive minded coach, what's your plan
for Jackson dark? Right? Which is the most important player
piece of your future as a franchise that has to
be set. And I know it's very easy to say
I'll just pick the best leader of men, But it
was easy to pick the best leader of men. Everyone

(48:10):
would do that, right. You don't know as a coordinator,
how do you know what he's gonna be like in
front of a room? To your point, how you don't
know what he's like, when things go bad and he
has to deal with controversy, you don't know that. So
I'm looking for one that how do you he handle
both sides of the can?

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I just add So what I always found ironic was
there were times where as a player, I played with
a coach and he was an office a coordinator or
a position coach and he was awesome. Like players loved them.
They were like, man, he's the best. He's gonna be
a great head coach. He was a total jerk. He
became a head coach, he was right. He totally changed
and it was like, dude, is what are you doing?
Like everybody loved you when you were this guy? Like

(48:44):
why why now a sudden you're this gunny highway and
now you've changed, Like people hate you, they don't like you.
So you know there are people that think that now
that I'm a head coach, I gotta be this drill
sergeant and I got to crack the whip.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Now do you go with a more experienced guy like
Mike McCarthy type, right, because you know he knows how
to run a program, settle things down, you know, And
I said, I think I said this to you before then,
the Giants need to hire there Tom Thibodeau, a guy
that knows how to settle the program, get everything set
and roll with it. But I'll say this, I do,
Sean want a specific type of offense here. You go

(49:16):
around the NFL and you look at the best offenses
in the league, and consistently they have certain things in common.
They're able to use their personnel to manipulate defenses, whether
it's using multiple tight ends to get base defense on
the field then you pass out of that, or using
small personnel to get you know, defensive backs on the field.
Then you run into it and they have an offense

(49:37):
that has their past game working off of their run game.
They're very connected. You don't know what they're doing on
any given play. It creates an indecision with the defense.
That's very important. And Sean, who's your offensive line coach?
We've been through a long period of time here where
the Giants have not gotten that right. Okay, but car

(49:58):
Bussil has been great this year and I would love
to keep him around if I could, So who's my
offensive line coach? That's important? But I do specifically, and look,
I'm open on defense, like Mike McDonald like never blitz us.
He never blitzed us, right, but that that works really
well with Seattle, So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
I like Karen too.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
All Right, I'm gonna take a call Shawnasill go run
real quick. He's gonna be right, He'll be right back.
I'm gonna go to a call here. But there are
different ways to skin the cat on defense in terms
of how you set things up. So to me, I'm
more concerned of getting that offense the way you want to.
I saw. I don't rendle here, Johnny Mamack a little bit.
Sean will be right back. Do worry. He has to
take care of some business. Let's go to Richard, Virginia.

(50:39):
He's up next time, Big, we'll kick off live rich
what's going on man?

Speaker 8 (50:43):
John back in Virginia. Happy Thanksgiving to you and YouTube SERI.
You know you guys, you guys rock. You know we've
been around for forever, since sixty one, and I suffered
through many a year and the fan base, I know,
uh speaking for them because I know them are may
be frustrated. But I think there's something really positives that
coming out.

Speaker 6 (51:03):
Of this year.

Speaker 8 (51:04):
I'd like to talk about them, sure, ghead. So I
just want to name some players here. The first of all,
offensive line. You guys talked about that. I agree with
you with Carmen Dessou. Tremendous, tremendous improvement. Remember in the
last two years, you'd have people running right through untouched
to the quarterback. There'll be a million tackles for loss
and run plays and didn't. It doesn't happen, So kudos

(51:25):
to those guys. Cordell Flott. We have our number two
cornerback there. If at diebo ever gets healthy, we have
two decent cornerbacks. You need some depth there. THEO I
mean he is just flashed in the last few games.
No more drops. He's made some incredible catches on the sideline.
Jackson and Winston and Scott Scott Scotti.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
They give this team.

Speaker 8 (51:49):
Juice, their leaders, and any organization needs people in those personalities.
I completely mis evaluated Janis. He's played really well and
there's personality is infectious, same as Scatabo.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Now, remember Jamis has flash stuff like this before. Unfortunately,
eventually bad Jamis shows up. Bad Jamis has not shown
up yet, but his history tells you that he will eventually.
He just hasn't quite yet.

Speaker 8 (52:14):
Well, you know, but he's he's a backup here, John,
not true absolute.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah, so you're right about that. As a backup, he's phenomenal.

Speaker 8 (52:20):
I agree with you, and perfect because we need a backup,
and they think about him contractually contracts only eight million
dollars for two years. That is a steal. So and
then we got Wandell, who I really hope we re signed.
So and on the defense, they don't have a person
like that with juice. They need that, and you guys

(52:40):
have already discussed it, but you know, we all are
just so frustrated with this run defense. They really really
missed mcpadden. And you guys have already said those the
back seven that they put out there yesterday, I can't tackle.
I just cannot tackle. And you look who's out there.
I mean, you got somebody named Bozeman out there the linebacker.

(53:01):
I mean, my gosh, he's doing the best he can.
But they're just so depleted because the injuries. But that's
where Joe Shane really and I know he's tried. They
need more depth. They definitely need another slot corner, another corner,
and I think you know, if with these of history

(53:21):
if those five fourth quarter leads, if we didn't give
up those leads, maybe seven and five. So I'm thinking
that even though it's so frustrating. Gosh, you know, it's
so frustrating, But I think for for next year, barring injuries,
we got free agency in the draft, I think that
and the schedule can't be any harder than this year.

(53:41):
I'm you know, I'm thinking needle.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Is is pointing up, Ritchie, appreciate the call man. How
are you doing, Charn great?

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Loco mia migo, Okay, perfect.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I think I think for now on, I'm gonna have
to teach you like a eight year old before she
puts on the snowsuit to go outside.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
I got jammed up as as we started the show
off the total poll came back to bite me. I
like the positivity from risk though, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Look and look there are and that's and that's the
frustrating thing, Sean. I want to make sure you get
to these last calls. I don't want to go too late.
Is you know, we all have to go do our things.
But that's that's why this season is so annoying. Like
in the last couple of years have been games are
you know, they're all before they started, you know, they
would no shot. But they've been in all these games,
they've been competitive, you've seen what could be. Yeah, if
they could just close out some of these games.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
But it sucks so good the fact that we have
been winning, Like you know, we've been up big on
some of these games. We were up nineteen points, I
think right in Denver. You know, those are games that
you just like you're befuddled at the fact that you
could funnel that away. So it's they're excruciating losses because

(54:51):
you know, like you said, if you get blown out
by twenty points, you're like, all right, you know what,
We're not at that level, Like we're not even in
that same ballpark as that team. We're there, it's frustrating.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Giants and now one and five in one score game,
So that kind of sums up.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
And we beat the Chargers who were like they were
like the second best team in the AFC.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Com and the Eagles, who have been the best team
in the NFC.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Eulls defending Super Bowl champs, and we should have beat Denver,
should have bet Dallas to.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Be Chicago was in first place in the NFC North.
That's why we are.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
That's why we drink.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
And have to leave in the middle of the show. Apparently,
let's go to Rode at South Carolina and he's up next.

Speaker 6 (55:31):
Rod.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Let's go it on. Hi.

Speaker 6 (55:35):
Hi, really nice to talk to you, guys.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
I've never been able to get through, so thank you.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Oh great, thanks for calling on.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Sure the reason I'm calling I wanted to talk about
coaching in general and why you why coaches get fired
and hired. Now, I've been a fan since nineteen seventy
eight and I've probably seen hundreds of coaches get fired.
The one thing I've always learned from players and analysts
who kind of know what they're talking about, they kind
to say that, you know, they lose the players after

(56:02):
a while, like after a while, their message doesn't get through.
And I'm wondering, maybe, if you guys have an opinion,
maybe that's what kind of what was happening with Bowen,
Like they just got tired of losing and the message
sort of goes in whee ear and out the other.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
I mean, he has a bit here that long roun.
That's the only thing. It's only a second year, so
I wouldn't think I mean, maybe she wan have a
better opinion on this than me.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
I don't know that I can generalize all of the
firings under that same umbrella because I don't even feel like,
you know, right when Joe Judge when he when he
was let go, I think there were you could say, man,
it felt like he lost a locker room. The locker
room felt fractured.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
And I think a Dana Pat Shermer kind of felt
that way the same thing.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Yeah, I don't feel that way with Dabele. I did
not feel that way defensively from these players with Shane Barker,
So I don't think it was Hey, look the message
is not getting through, like they're not listening to him,
you know, because I guarantee you that they've been coached
on how to defend some of these run plays and
they're just not executing it. So you know, you make
the change hoping that there is a little bit of

(57:06):
a spark and you know what this a new coach
may be coming in Charlie Bullen. He may be saying
the same thing that Shane bowen Is has said. Maybe
it's packaged differently or presented differently, and so maybe it's
heard differently. But I don't think it's anything different than
what Shane Boonen is saying. But you know, sometimes you know,
something like that happens, and you know what, it wakes

(57:26):
people up, like, hey, you know what, like this is
a business, and you know what, like when somebody gets
fired all of a sudden, now you know everybody kind
of you've got their attention, and so maybe now they're
a little more receptive to certain things. That's why, you know,
you end up making a change. As a player. I
hated it. I didn't like coaches getting fired because you know,

(57:48):
I felt like it wasn't their fault. It was us.
We let them down as players, and now he's falling
on the sword and he's getting the acts and it's
not his fault. And there is a part of you
that feels like, man, you know what, I got to
go out and I got a ball out for him
in his honor because we let him down. So yeah,
I feel like you see every year in the NFL,
a coach gets fired the interim coach. The next game

(58:08):
they win and it's like, hey, there's nothing you know
what was new?

Speaker 1 (58:11):
What was magical?

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Well, you know what, we stopped serving cheeseburgers, and now
we went hot thomes, Like, you know, I mean, what
are we talking about here. It's like, you know, if
you're a golfer and you've got a case of the shanks,
you know, or you have the hiccups, like everybody's got
a cure for it. You know, stand on one foot
and pull both your ears. That's how you get rid
of hiccups. Yeah, who knows, you know that that part
of it. I just think at some point, you know,
there there is you know, there's change for the sake

(58:35):
of making change, and sometimes it has a great effect.
But the one thing that I feel like a lot
of teams and owners, they're like, I can't do nothing,
so I have to do something, and this is the something.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And that's the only thing you can do in the
middle of the year. You can't change all your players.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
Yeah, I mean, once the trade deadline happened, I mean,
you could trade players. You know, we've seen teams do
that just kind of hey, you know what, just start
shipping guys out. And that sends a message too. But
you know, and things like this are inevitable when you're
two and.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Ten, Okay, I understand, And Sean, if I could, I
went to thank you for one thing. My nephew was
at the stadium one day and you took a picture
with him and it was the thrill of his life.
So thank you for doing that.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Oh, thank you, Ron, Thanks for sharing that man awesome,
happy to do it. And uh, it was an honor.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
You must have caught him on the on the right day,
because usually he just stiff arms past all the kids
I try to take. I love mushing trucks, not knocks.

Speaker 7 (59:27):
Some damn.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Everybody on the bus. Good, great Graham, no yelling on
the boss. Let's wrap things up with our buddy Lenning Columbia, Maryland? Len,
what's going on? Did he drop off? Johnny Mack?

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Okay, so we lost Lenny?

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Do we got Len?

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Len?

Speaker 1 (59:43):
You're there? Pal?

Speaker 5 (59:44):
Yeah, I'm here?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
He go ahead. What do you got there?

Speaker 5 (59:46):
Yeah? Hey, hey, I got a note to myself. It
says stay positive. I'll start out with happy Thanksgiving now, No, Len,
I think my.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Question for you? Has that note been in front of
you for like seven straight weeks? Is it the same note?
Do you rewrite the note every week? How does that work?

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Is it a cocktail? Nap? I got a little I
got a little history, like, did you is it take together?

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Hey, hey, a couple of quick kids before I get
to a main point, the tying field goal. Two things,
if the kick had been from forty five yards, you
probably would have missed it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
You had that late curve on it, right, I know, boy?

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
Okay? And secondly, uh Dexter had a great rush on that.
If you look at it from the you know, the
coaches tape, he had a great rush coming at the kicker.
He was I thought he was going to block it.
He got held on that play. If you get a
chance to watch it, I watch it again. Look at
that the blocker had him. The blocker had him around

(01:00:46):
the head, around the neck.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Interesting. They only have him as one special team snap
off game, so maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
It must have been that one. All right, let's we'll
take a look at it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
Yeah, hey, Sean, uh It's it's not unusual, you know,
to see guys line up off side maybe every other game,
but the same guy twice in one game. I mean,
come on, I do stay on side, will you please?
I mean, that's ridiculous, That's truly ridiculous. You know what

(01:01:20):
about on the choice we won the we won the.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Flip over time?

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):
Uh in overtime in overtime, and we chose. And I
think the new rules lend itself toward this that as
every team gets the ball, each team gets the ball
in overtime, but and more and more teams are choosing
to actually kick off. Remember how that was, Oh my god,
always the joke, you gotta take the ball, you gotta take.
But the new rules kind of lend itself to people

(01:01:49):
kicking off. If we were gas in any shape mannor Reform,
when we had people nicked up and we needed a
little more time, maybe we should have taken the ball
on the kickoff and set up, you know, on that
overtime kick off.

Speaker 7 (01:02:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Then there is also an analytical argument that you should
And if you talk to the to the math people,
they tell you it's not as big of an obvious
thing to kick. I prefer to have the ball second
is then you know what you need and you can
go for it on fourth down and stuff. But their
argument is that if you get the ball first, you
have a chance to have the third possession. Right, So

(01:02:23):
if to both teams take field goals, there's probably not
going to be a fourth possession and a ten minute span,
but you might get an extra possession if it's tied
after the first two. So that's why some people say,
all right, maybe receiving first makes sense because if either
neither team scores on their first drive, or there's true
field goals or whatever, you will get an extra possession
when the other team won't. So that's kind of the

(01:02:43):
counter argument to it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
Well, I guess what I was wondering if there were
mitigating circumstances in this particular case. I mean, they're you know,
not being on the field or couldn't get on the
field of whatever the right terminology is, and if you
will find it and it's your defense, was you know,
little tired from the from the previous drive, you know,
maybe you buy a little time with the defense. I

(01:03:05):
guess that's that's where I was going with that. But
let me let me get on to my main point.

Speaker 7 (01:03:08):
If I mean, thirteen.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
You got are you there? Guy?

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean yeah, I'll just look at it. So, so,
so the Lines had a thirteen play drive in the
fourth quarter, then the Giants had a three play drive
and you had the commercial break after you know, going
into overtimes, they bright the defense probably had wise about
ten minutes. I would say, probably to kind of get rid.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Of course, yeah, yeah, you would think so. I think
that's why a lot of people are on doing why
Dexter wasn't on the field. You know, the immediate thing
was why wasn't Dexter on the field? No, I get it, Uh,
you know, Okay, let me let me get to my
main point. Five games to go. I know a lot
of pay attention to this, you know, like lose them

(01:03:54):
all or whatever. These five games are important to this organization.
Oh oh my goodness, there's there's invice to training camp pending,
there's jobs on the line to out the organization. I mean,
you're on national TV ones. I mean, these are important.

(01:04:16):
These are important games. We got to win these games.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
Listen.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
We could win all five, we could win all five,
but we got to win some games, particularly those home games.
I mean, I'm for playing your your best players right
up to right up till the last second of that
Cowboys game in January. I mean, play your healthy, your
best healthiest guys.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
I'm gon g anybody's questioning that at all. I think
I think everybody's on board that. And look at Mike Kafka,
like he's got his dream right now his dream right
now as the head coach, so he wants to win all.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
These Stay care but there's going to be a lot
of people. You're going to get a lot of calls.
We're going to talk about. We're going to talk about
you know, what difference does it make? I take it
makes a lot of difference.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
I know, Sean does two.

Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
Let's let's win these when these games. Give him a plan, Sewan,
expect them to perform, and you hold them accountable and
make your decisions when the season's over. Hey, thanks for
taking a call. Have a great day on Thursday, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
A lot of big decisions in the offseason, Sean. There's
all these big decisions that so much of the roster
turns over every year. They have to make decisions on
these guys, and they off to make those calls.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
So, yeah, these final five games are going to be
important in a lot of different ways for this for
the players and the rest of the organization.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Unfortunately, I've been on some teams like this. My rookie
year in Cleveland, we started out two and one and
winded up three and thirteen that year. And yeah, that
last five, you know, the last five weeks. Look, it
was tough, and there were some veteran players that you know,
we're mailing it in or that tapped out, and that
created opportunity for other players. But you know, when you're

(01:05:56):
a player right now or a coach, look, you're fighting
for your job and you know, whether you're under contract
or not, you know their change is coming. So you're
either going to be on board with the future or
they're going to find somebody else. So look, there's a
lot of there's a lot to play for for players
and for coaches. I like what you said about winning
at home like that, that to me that that was

(01:06:17):
Davie's mission. You know, this whole offseason was we got
to win games at home, and it was coming off
of the heels of a season where we won one
home game against the Colts, which can Giants fans were
conflicted about at Medlife Stadium that they won the game,
but they lost to the number one overall pick by
winning that game. So like that's always banter. But in
the locker room, look like I'm going out there to

(01:06:38):
play for him, Like I'm playing for my brother, Like
I'm playing for the name on the back of the jersey.
As well as the decal and the helmet. So there's
definitely a lot to play for and look for a
lot of guys, you know, maybe they don't have a
contract with the Giants after this season. This is your audition,
you know, this is your chance to prove that you
belong next year when when we're rallying the troops and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
You aren't necessarily looking for a quarter so you know,
the draft position not as important. This is also not
gonna be a great top of the draft, so I
don't think that's a big deal. And you're right, there
are a lot of unable games down this stretch, and look,
the players are gonna go out there try to win
these games. By Kafka is coaching for his future head
coaching life, Charlie Bowen is gonna be coaching for his
future defensive coordinator life. All these guys are gonna try
to do everything they can.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
They try to chance to compete.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
That's what you want, That's what you always want, Sean,
this was fun, my man.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
Thanks Johnny.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Were you on TV post game last night?

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Okay, so you did the rapid reaction with Mandeline afterwards.
So that is up on the Giants little podcast, folks,
go check it out. You can find it on your
favorite podcast platform. You can also find a lot of
content on Giants TV on any of your smart TVs.
You can download at the App Store or Google Play.
And of course shout out that Giants Tottle podcast that's
on Oral YouTube channels as well. For show now, I'm

(01:07:45):
Josh Spelk. That's Big Book kick off libresented by Cadillac,
the official luxury vehicle of the Giants, coming to you
from the Hackensack and Marity Health podcast studio. Keep getting better.
For Showan Nohara, I'm John Schmelk. Tomorrow, I believe it
is you switch with Lance when so tomorrow I believe
it is Datino Cassius and then Madeline Lance on Wednesday, Thursday,

(01:08:06):
there's no show Friday. It is Datino and Sytac. So
that's your lineup for the week. Next week we'll do
shows Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then we will take off
for the buye which is apparently coming during Christmas time,
because well why not. We'll see that Audioeah, Happy Thanksgiving