Big Blue Kickoff Live 12/9 | Giants Goals for Rest of Season

Lance Medow and Jonathan Casillas discuss the state of the team going into the last four weeks, talk about Jaxson Dart’s play style, and take calls from fans. 

0:00 - State of the team

29:00 - Calls

41:20 - Giants culture

56:20 - More on the team

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
On Giants dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
You know what I saw to York Giant Crime.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
And the Giants Mobile app seventeen the.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
Final one tuckdown we are, We're out Taverack Weppen.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Let's go on, Hell the dog hasn't fun.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome to Tuesday's edition of Big Blue Kickoff live here
on giants dot com YouTube as well as the mobile app.
He's Jonathan can see us. I'm Lance Medal with you
for the next sixty minutes multiple ways. If you need
interact with us here on the program. Two zero one
nine three nine four five one three is the telephone number.
You can also use hashtag Giants Chat on social media.
He is at JACBCS fifty two. I'm at Lance Metal

(00:48):
one word, last name heavy do ow. It is presented
by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York
Giants that we are broadcasting from the Giants Podcast Studio
presented by Hackensack Meridian Health. Keep getting better so the
Giants coming off the by four games remaining in the
regular season. We'll get into what lies ahead for the
Giants during this final stretch, some things to look for,

(01:11):
especially with a few opportunities coming up, and jac that's
where I want to start, because you at least you
look at the upcoming schedule. You've got a Commander's team
that is going to be entering this weekend having dropped
eight in a row, and probably a good chance that
Jayden and Daniels won't play after reaggravating the elbow injury,
and the Giants will likely see Marcus Mariota, not that
he is not a season vet and hasn't done a

(01:32):
good job filling in for Daniels. They're going to get
a Raiders team that clearly has struggled immensely, a Vikings
team in which JJ McCarthy has had his ups and downs,
has been hurt, hit and out of the lineup, and
then a Cowboys team that may or may not have
something to play for in the final game of the season,
so at least in terms of the caliber of the
competition before the Cowboys game, considering Dallas as the only

(01:56):
team mathematically that still could potentially have something to play for,
chance for the Giants to show something here to see
whether or not they can finish, to see a little
bit better of a balanced attack. And I'm not saying
it's going to mean the end all be all in
terms of what lies d for next season, but I
think there is a number of winnable games for Big

(02:16):
Blue here down the stretch.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, I believe so. Lance the first half of the season,
as I said, the first quarter, at first five or
six games of the year, I use the word respond,
and I think the Giants responded a lot, especially early
in the season. How are they going to respond to
I think the worst loss that they had in twenty
twenty five this last week against the Patriots. They were
fully dismantled right offense, defense, and special teams. They were

(02:41):
out physical and not just by the statistics and the
run game and stuff like that. You saw it, you
I've heard it. Yeah, you know, and the Giants have
to respond. And I said this earlier. I was doing
the hangout earlier with the crew, and I said this,
this is the time of the year, especially in a
season like this where you know you're two and eleven
and you're not playing for anything, but this is where

(03:04):
you come late by right, the late byes are not
great late bye, so you have a lot of stuff
to look at and a lot of self reflection. This
is where you look at a mirror and hey, am
I doing everything I can? Not just for this organization,
but am I doing enough for me to stay in
the league. There's already been multiple firings in this organization.

(03:26):
Head coach, defensive coordinator, coach Cox like, this is where
you should look at yourself. Hey, am I doing everything
I can to not just play the best football for
the Giants before myself? And if you do that during
this time off that the Giants had, and you come
back with a refreshed energy, forget your record, don't worry

(03:46):
about none of that stuff, don't worry about the playoffs,
don't worry about bonuses and all of that. Just go
out there and play good quality football, put good film
out there, not just for the Giants before yourself. I
wish that the guys hope that the guys did that
or in a bye week so we can get a
little bit better played because this Giants team still got athletes. Yeah,
some guys are banged up here and there, but this

(04:07):
Giants team got athletes. This Giants team I think has
a better roster than it has the last few years,
and it just hasn't showed it right at Duke Carter.
He's a guy that we've been talking about for discipline reasons.
Why and then when you look at the play, it's
like I probably could understand it now that we understand
the discipline. This team needs to be more disciplined from

(04:28):
the start of the game that started the season. Excuse me,
second game of the year Dallas right where they had
twenty one call penalties. I think it was like fourteen
that they actually you know, got got coined. It was.
It was insane, and this team needs to show that
they're making progress. I know it's late, and I know
are not playing for anything, but we have to see

(04:49):
something right now. Lance like last week was horrible. That
was every game I felt, you know, it was maybe
a couple of games San fran and then the second
Eagles game where I felt like the Giants got out
played and it wasn't really a close game. That game
they got their butts well, oh sure, And I didn't
feel like that this whole year. And then I saw that,

(05:09):
I'm like, okay, this is where you got to like
look at yourself as an organization, as a team, and
then individually as players as coaches, because that's embarrassing, you know.
And these are all prideful men, you know, from the
bottom all the way up to the top, and they
have to respond. They have to figure out a way
to respond. They had a bye week, got a chance
to go ahead and self scout coaches as well, see

(05:31):
what you have you know done well this year, because
they have put out some good film. Defensively, I would
like to see them to take a big step forward.
I think that's been a huge disappointment. And let's see
what they can do against a really Commander's team. Right,
they're without their their ERTs. You know, he's been hurting
the Giants for a very long time, not just with
this team. And then they might be at their second quarterback.

(05:52):
So I do see that. You know, there's some things
that the Giants could take advantage of come Sunday.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, they're not putting up a boatload of points, mainly
because of the injuries. Terry McLaurin recently came back, but
he had missed a stretch. I mean, if you look
at this eight game skid to your point, JC, they
put up thirteen points against the Dolphins. Okay, went up
slightly against the Broncos. That was a close game that
they lost right at the end. But they were shut
out by a Minnesota Vikings team that actually the Giants
are gonna see. But I mean Minnesota has been doctor

(06:20):
Jekkl and mister High and I would say their defense
probably played lights out for the first time we've seen
this entire season, so very erratic squad. That the Giants
are going up.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Again games too, just like that.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, absolutely, and I would wholeheartedly agree with your assessment
that the Patriots game was the first time that the
Giants were essentially non competitive. Right every game, no matter
how it finished, you felt that they had a chance,
they were in the thick of things. They were completely
as you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Thirty at halftime. Yeah, they had thirty points at half time,
and they basically pulled the foot off the pedal.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well, you had special team issues across the board. You
gave up short fields to Patriots, you gave up a
special team's touchdown. So no matter how you want to
spin it, and they.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
But with their physicality, that's what really jumped off the
screen to me watching the game from home. I'm like,
this team is there there. They're like, yeah, we're gonna
send a message to not just this team that we
have a lot of history with right preseason super Bowls,
but we want to send a message to the conference,

(07:26):
to the league that we are the best team in
the league. That's how they played. They played like that,
you know, And everybody talk about did the Giants, you know,
catch up and talent wise to other teams. Sometimes it's
not about talent. It's about mentality. It's about mentality and
approach that you take. And the approach that the Patriots take.
I mean when you think about the Giants from back

(07:47):
in the day, back in the eighties, back in the nineties,
it's kind of taking that same type of approach. And
that's what's kind of been missing the year in New
York is that approach, that physical mentality is like, no
matter what the score is, you're gonna know that we
was a fight today, you know.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
And we're gonna have the bruises to prove it to you. Well,
it's that old school flavor that you're talking about in
terms of comparison to the eighties Giants, And I think
there's a brand of football which is what you were
getting at that New England plays that differentiates themselves, jac
and you know that very well from being within the
organization that is cut from a different cloth. And I

(08:22):
think it feeds off of Vrabel and him being a
former player and how he played and how he approached
the game, because I'll give you an example, and this
goes back to a conversation I was having on BBKO
last week relating to the hits that Dark took, you know,
and that fine line about do you step out two
yards earlier to avoid it? Last night, I don't know

(08:43):
how much you saw maybe of the Eagles Chargers, but
there were times where Herbert was running out of play.
And I know Herbert's playing with the broken left hand,
but Philly let him run out of play, and that
was what I was pointing out. I'm not saying that guys,
and you know this from being a former defensive player,
that they don't have the mentality, Hey, if a quarterback's running,
I'm gonna try to take hit. But there's a brand
and h effort that New England shows that I don't

(09:06):
think is duplicated, which was my point JC from the
thirty one other teams meaning they stick out a lot
more than even a Philadelphia team with Vic Fangrio at
the controls, which you know is physically defensive minded. But
there's some other teams that they'll let the quarterback run
out of play because they don't want to risk a penalty,
whereas New England's going to walk that fine line.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, and they did without it wasn't the only hit.
It wasn't hit from that linebacker.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
As well, right, Ellis.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, And look, I think that's a little self inflicted
with Dart, you know, no, no doubt, But I'm not
talking about that play.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Sure, the team is different, Yes, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, but I think and I want to I want
to talk about that a little bit, because, yeah, I
do think that Dart has he's not taking advantage of
the what they accredit to quarterbacks. They have a lot
of you know, protections for the quarterback, and he's not
using it, you know. And and the reason why I
say that, because, yeah, he becomes a runner when he
breaks a line of scrimmage. He's running football design runs

(10:03):
blah blah blah blah, all that stuff. But once you
show that your willingness to run out of bounds, your
willingness to just you know, go away from contact, your
willingness to slide early on. Now it puts you at
the ultimate advantage because defenders they do not want to
get penalized. And if you've shown that time after time,

(10:23):
you're making the smart play, which is not taking on
unnecessary hits because sometimes you you know, third and one,
you know, crucial point in the game.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
R now you need to fight for him to circumstances,
you have no choice.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
And if you look at Mahomes, Mahomes has been running
guys over. You know why because he show the willingness
to run out of bounds so many times. And everybody
eases up as they get to him because they don't
want to hit him when he slides, because you could
get ejected. If you hit him the wrong way, you
can you know, definitely gonna get penalized. You're gonna get fined.
There's so many different things Dart has never gave people

(10:55):
that he didn't give that, or if I hit him,
I'm gonna come out. No, there's like he's gonna allow
me to hit him because he thinks he's tough, and
he is tough.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
He is a tough guy, but there is rules to
help you play the quarterback position, and I just feel
like he didn't take advantage of him early enough. And
that's why you saw the hit right on the fine enge,
because he knew he could get there. Because he didn't,
he knew that Jackson Dot weren't stepping out. So I
just feel like that and I just want to talk
about that because I really haven't spoken about that. We

(11:26):
haven't spoken in I don't know how.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Long a year since we've done a showret.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I wanted to put out my perspective on that because
he can get that back because now he if he
goes to slide Lady, if he goes to go out
of bounds a little late and he does get out
of bounds, they're gonna take that extra step and hit him.
So hopefully he doesn't take a shot like that again,
but he can cost penalties now because he showed them
the latter. He showed them things that you're not really

(11:53):
supposed to see from a quarterback. You want a quarterback
to protect yourself, but he showed that he doesn't do
that all the time. So he be able to create
a penalty off of that now because he kind of
put that out there, right. I love his mentality though,
you know, like I do love his mentality. I love it,
and I think people feet off of it. Just like
what skatabull was healthy for the Giants. The Giants need

(12:14):
bore guys like that right, live on the edge, play
on the edge. But the last statement of that last
centers of that statement is never hurt his team. I
love the way he plays on the edge. I love
the way he lives on the edge, but don't hurt
the team. Don't hurt the team by getting yourself hit
like that. And I want everybody to play like that,
play feisty. That's what the Patriots did. The Patriots played

(12:35):
right on the edge. It with some penalties there, sure,
but they brought it every play. That's the way you
football should be played, I believe, and the Giants have
to take a similar approach to that. In this division
with the Eagles, the Cowboys, and the Commanders, they all
have their quarterbacks in place, they all have special talent
at the wide receiver position, they all have guys on defense,

(12:56):
they all have coaches in position. The Giants got to
catch up. Not when we talk about in the locker room,
but as a whole culture and organization, that's where I
think the Giants got to make the next jump. And
it takes Jackson, Dart, Dexa, Lawrence, all of the young leaders,
the older leaders to go ahead establish what is this Giants?
What is Giants Nation? What is Giants style? Is? What

(13:19):
is it?

Speaker 4 (13:20):
You know?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
And that hasn't been.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Established, interestingly, And I'm glad we delved into a little
bit more on this dark perspective because I don't know
if you heard his comments JC after the game, but
he was defending that, you know, he's been playing like
this since high school and college and that this is
his brand, so he's rolling it over. But I was
curious your perspective because as somebody that also played on

(13:43):
the high school and the college level, there's a distinct
difference between the competition you're seeing there and maybe what
guys let you get away with versus going up against
Ellis to the Patriots on the NFL level. So I
think there's still that room for him to make an adjustment.
But I think you brought up a good point. He's
still in that middle ground where there's times that for example,
the Landry play he did give himself up right, I

(14:06):
mean Landry, I thought jumped over, yes, But then there's
the other play where you're roaming up the sideline and
you think, okay, I got some wiggle room here, and
all of a sudden, ellis to your point saying, no,
if he's not going to go over out of play,
I'm gonna hustle over. I'm gonna get a hit on him.
So it's sort of picking and choosing and knowing to
your point down in distance where you are in the game,

(14:26):
so that you don't put yourself in a position where
you're now not available. And I think that's what he's
going to have to learn because you brought up the division. Well,
Jaye and Daniels just reinjured the elbow injury, so his
status is very much up in the air. Not to
get off topic, but a guy that we're very familiar with,
and it was a shame to see it happened. Daniel
Jones just tore his achilles and here's another season right now.

(14:49):
He was playing with a broken fibula, and I'm sure
there may be something.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
MILLI another tough guy. We all love Daniel, and.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Is nobody's questioning is toughness but at the end of
the day, you don't get brownie points the tough guy.
You get brownie points for being available in the game
and the narrative, and it's really not a narrative. There's
validity behind it. DJ. Outside of one full season where
they made the playoffs the Giants, he has missed games.
So Dart doesn't want to go down that road where

(15:17):
toughness is great, physicality is great, making game changing plays.
But every year there is three to four games that
he may not be available. And that's I think the
concern here, which goes under the umbrella of what we're
talking about things to watch in the final four games.
How does he look to extend plays and what is
his perspective and approach to that.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
You get when you're in the league, especially a younger guy.
You get baptized, right he got that was.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
His bat I fire very quickly.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, yes, that was his baptism. It happened a little
later in this in this season, and I think he
has learned. I think he's learned from the hits away
from the sideline, right, you know, I guess the Chicago Bears, right, Yeah,
he has slid even in the game last week he
slid multiple times, and he will learn. My thing is

(16:07):
with him, it's all right. Let's say he was throwing interceptions, right,
and he has the same like I've been playing this
way in college and in high school. But because you're
throwing interceptions in the league, you probably got to figure
out what you have to change to not throw interceptions,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
So his decision.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
His numbers look great, right, he got what eleven passing touchdowns,
three interceptions, seven or eight rushing touchdowns, which is that's
really good. So you don't really see the hits on paper,
you know. So it's it's not really the numbers because
the numbers look good, but that's a part of the
game as well, taking the hits. So it's like, okay,

(16:48):
you might have took some of those hits and they
weren't as hard as ellis last week. I've never seen
him like, I haven't seen too many people get hit
like that.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Well, he's quarterback position, took flight and he's not superman, so.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
What I do know? And NFL people talk about the
tackling in the NFL, and that might be true. It
might not be as great as it used to be, right,
but everybody can hit plans. Everybody they've been running in
hittings since they were children, and they would love to
hit a quarterback like that. So my thing, it was
just a little immature for him to say that, because
I heard the press conference after the game and I

(17:20):
was like, Bro, you like, if I kept on playing
the same way I played, I had an early neck
injury in my career, I would never play nine years.
I had to change the way I played because of
my health. And he was in a tent what four
or five times this year ready before he actually got
the concussion. So it's like, Bro, you have to learn
from not just the ex's and o's and the speed
of the game and all that, but also from the

(17:40):
physicality of the game. It's an increase the skill level,
the intelligence level, and also the physicality, and you have
to you have to put that in as a factor
at things that you have to improve on when you
move to the next level. And we're not asking you
to be a punk when I actually none of that.
Just be smarter as you're doing in the x's and o's,

(18:02):
as you're doing in route progression, as you're doing as
the situational football you're being smart in all of those things.
You should be smart in the physicality of the game
as well.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
It reminds me, and I'm gonna go back into the archives,
there was a preseason game several years back between the
Jets and the Giants and Rex Ryan was the head
coach of the Jets. He kept Mark Sanchez in the game.
If you recall this, behind like third and fourth string
offensive linemen, and you had Giants players trying to fight

(18:34):
for roster spots. Right, So if you're fighting for right,
you're gonna bring it right. You're treating this like it's
the Super Bowl. Mark got hurt. Gino Smith then became
the starter. The reason I'm bringing that up is Dart Interestingly,
we talked about, Okay, next three opponents mathematically pretty much
out of it. But to your point, guys are fighting
to stay in the league forever.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Okay, they're trying to send their careers.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, so it's not just well, these guys are not
just going through the motions right going out and they're
wanting to maybe take your head off, especially if you're
out in the open field. So I actually would argue,
I don't want to say that it's anywhere near the
litmus tests of the Patriots, but maybe a little bit
more interesting and dangerous who you're going up against the
next three weeks, because these teams are playing guys that

(19:18):
also they're evaluating. And if you know you're being put
onto the microscope and you don't have a guarantee to
be on the roster next year or you got to
put film out for everybody else, there's a little bit
more pep in your step, right, no matter who you're
going up in here, your career without a doubts. So
that's maybe more of a reason why he needs to
be a little bit more cautious in his approach because

(19:40):
a lot of people would look at all these teams
they've got nothing to play for, no, but the individuals
have everything at stake in these next three games, and
that's where I think we're gonna learn a lot about Dart.
We're gonna also learn about a lot of the individuals
on this team because even though the Giants are a
relatively young team, a lot of these have their careers

(20:00):
ahead of them. So there is something to be said
about if you're going to be able to have the
luxury to play around Dart for the next few season.
And what I mean is some of these offensive linemen
that are at least under contract. Wandel Robinson, I know,
is due for a contract, but there is something to
be said about all right, this group you would hope
is going to stay together moving forward. Yeah, at least

(20:21):
from a chemistry standpoint. I'm not saying that the offense
is going to be the same or the schematics, but
the rapport you build in these next four games maybe
means a little bit of something in terms of what
you could carry over to the offseason as well as
next training camp, because at the end of the day,
dart Stale is a tiny sample size jac of him
being on the field and working with a lot of

(20:41):
this personnel, So you know, maybe that could help, not huge,
but bits and pieces at least in terms of what
we're going to see in the final four games. And
you know, guys making a statement to maybe give the
front off as a reason to evaluate how they play
and whether or not they can fit into the puzzle
here moving forward, because I still think there's plenty of

(21:01):
roster spots up for Grebs, especially based on the two
and eleven mark.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, everything's being analyzed, right, now yep. You know when
you have moves like that, you know, the firing at Tayball,
firing of Shane Bowen, like this is what that means,
you know, like everything is being evaluated, Shane all the
way down Kicker, Like everybody's being evaluated. Dexter Lawrence. I know,

(21:25):
people don't think that he may go anywhere, but Dexter
Lawrence is being evaluated, you know. Like here they want
to see if these people on this roster and these
coaches on this staff are going to be in the
New York Giants in the next year's come to come.
There's a lot of contracts out there, and I do think, look,
there are some vital pieces that the Giants need to keep,

(21:47):
of course, but then there might be pieces that have
been here for a while that may need to go elsewhere,
not just for the Giants, but for them, you know,
and for their careers, because maybe they've just got everything
they could here at New York, you know, and it's
it's tough. I played for four different teams, you know,
I ended here with the New York Giants, and I
cherished every stop that you know, I made, and you know,

(22:10):
for me to end my career here. This is one
of the greatest organizations. So the last time I was
in the locker room, I spoke to a mayor, Smith Marsett,
and I told him, I was like, you know, because
he wasn't he hasn't really been active and I've been playing,
and I'm like, bro, just come here with a grateful
attitude every single day, bro, because you never know the
next job, who's going to be working there, what coach
is going to be there, you know, so put your

(22:31):
best step for forward, not just on Sundays because you're
not playing every single day, because you should be grateful
that you're in the NFL. You should be grateful that
you get to do what you love for work. You
may not be happy where you're at right now, but
don't show that when you walk into the building. You know,
show the happy attitude because you don't know where these
coaches are going. And know this is before anything any

(22:51):
firings happened or anything like that. I played with Fags
in twenty twelve right in New Orleans. We were the
worst defense in the league. I got benched for Jonathan
Villm when he was suspended at I heard and then
I never played on defense ever. Again. So that year.
Spags apologized to me after the year and I was like, yeah,
like whatever, but I played hard every day. I came
to work with a smile on my face. I never
changed my demeanor. Right fast forward four years later, he

(23:15):
brings me here to New York, you know, and I'm
sitting there like, oh, the Giants are offering me a
nice contract. I'm like where they come from? And he
was like, oh, Spags is there. But because I played
the game a certain way, even when I was unhappy,
I was very upset that I didn't play sidence. Yeah
you know, and but I didn't show it, you know,
when I played like a professional. These Giants have to

(23:38):
do that because you can recover from two to four
early in the season, you had the team to do it.
You were you showed that you can take down top
teams in the NFL early in the season. But you
have to be able to play like that regardless of
your record, regardless of what happened the week before, regardless
of what happened in your house and with your personal problems.

(23:59):
And I just think that the Giants just haven't got
the full potential from his roster. That I think is
one of the best rotsters we've seen from the New
York Giants since we've been working together for short lance.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Well listen, we've seen fair share of ups and downs,
and I think this is one of the first seasons
in a while where the team has been consistently competitive.
Whether or not they finished again is a different story,
but they've been in just about every game. Can't say
that about previous seasons. A lot of games that just
got out of control early on, and you knew, regardless
of what happens in the second half, they do not

(24:32):
have a legitimate chance to get back into the thicke
of things. One player, interestingly, he peaud my interest in
terms of you sharing your experience and your tie into spags,
which is another example of how a small world the
NFL is. But there's an example this year of a
guy they brought back, Isaiah Hodgins. Hodgens was on the
Steelers practice squad, but he had ties right to members

(24:53):
of the organization and Kafka, so they had a need
right to bring it a wide receiver and because of
the impression he made now Hodgens played a lot of
course the first time he was there and help them
in that playoff run in OH two. But now all
of a sudden, he could go for the practice squad
to a regular roster and immediately contribute, and he also
has familiarity with the scheme. I mean, that was a

(25:14):
golden opportunity. I'm sure if you asked Isaiah Hodgens, what
would you rather do? Would you rather be with a
team that has a chance to get to the playoffs
and be on the practice squad or actually play and
prove your worth to get back on a fifty three
man roster. I mean, I can't speak for him, but
I think it's standing out.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
For us, right unless it's like week seventeen or something
like that, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know, and he's been in this area, so, you know,
uprooting himself, and I think he understands being with a
few different teams. That's life in the NFL, as you
can attest.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
But that's that's what I'm I was talking about him, like,
not specifically, but like I feel like he embodied what
I was just talking about, right, Like he's a guy
that has been on practice squads and taking off practice squads.
The two times the Giants got him was off of
somebody else's practice squad, and he came in ready both times,
you know, And you gotta have that mentality because you
never know. Oh, you gotta have that Jameis Winston mentality, right,

(26:04):
Jamis says they said, but they say, they said, oh,
how was it when you were waiting? He was like,
I wasn't waiting, I was preparing.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Like I love everything.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Everything.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
He's extremely entertaining.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
He's so good. But the mentality he has as a backup,
he's a backup. He was third string. Yeah, never waivered
in his mentality, and he was ready. He came in
and he played good football. Right. He showed us. He
gave it to Jameis Winston experience. Right. He threw some
amazing passes and some pasts. Was like, oh, heit, Jameis
what you doing right?

Speaker 4 (26:36):
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
But that's Jameis Winston. He is consistent in who he
is as a player. You know why, because he's consistent
in who he is as a man. When you're that
way off the field, it's so easy to do it
on the field because you do everything how you do
everything right?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Does he put on a facade or something like?

Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's just how he is, you know. And and I
just feel like sometimes you know, on teams, some guys
might do that. They might act accord differently or do
things differently, and it's like, no, bro, you're a professional.
If you're doing anything differently, you're doing it differently here,
but to a higher level because you're a pro. Right,
just like you're a professional on anything. Right if you
go to a doctor and the doctor is not on time,

(27:13):
or the doctor, you know, messes up, or like, you're
gonna be like, bro, what you know, Like you're a professional,
act like a professional. And I'm not talking about that
due Carter. I'm talking about the whole team, right, Javon
Holland hitting the ball out, somebody's here and it's like, bro,
what are you doing? You know what I mean? Like
those type of things, the little things like that, they
add up. They add up, especially when it comes to

(27:35):
close games in the fourth quarter. It's all the little
details that matter. This team has to grow grow up
a little bit more. I think they have some great leaders.
I think there's some guys right now on this team
that might not want to be here or might not
want to play for this regime. I don't know what
it is exactly, but the Giants, they I just felt like, man,
we've seen them grow the roster to the point where

(27:58):
it's like they are competitive with the better teams in
the NFL. But there's other things that outlie that. The
new head coach that comes in, that's got to be
the number one priority, getting all of the other stuff,
the X stuff, the stuff that you don't really talk
about when you talk about a locker room, when you
talk about a roster, when you talk about putting a
great team together, those little things that you don't speak about.

(28:20):
Those are the things that he has to master when
he comes to the.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Giants, because that could also have a cumulative effect, to
your point, on the entire team, not necessarily a few individuals.
All Right, We're going to open up the phone lines
as we move forward here, Lance Meto Jonathan can see
us with you here Tuesday's edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live.
It is presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of
the New York Giants. Two zero one nine three nine
four five one three is the telephone number. We go

(28:46):
to Rob in Connecticut with us here on BBKL. What's
happened to Rob Glance JC, How's it going too well?
What's on your mind.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
Well two things, actually, thanks for taking my cough. Number one,
As far as the head coaching search, do you think
it's safe to say that the Mike Kafka era is
going to be behind it and we're gonna maybe get
anybody decide to Arthur Smith? And who do you think
that'll be? And then I have another question after that one.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Well why don't you ask the second question? Then we
can tackle everything at once.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
So yeah, that's for me. All right, Well you guys
know best, uh, do you think we'll use any draft
capital toward And I have to say a kicker, all.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Right, Rob, I was literally talking about that two days ago.
I was like, giants are drafted kicker. I mean, it's
just been so inconsistent in that position for such a
long time. You know, you had Graham Gano, who I
love Graham Gano, Like, first off, he's my draft class,
so you know, like shout out to all of the
two thousand and nine draft class, even the undrafted guys
like myself. So I love him. But he's been very inconsistent,

(29:55):
you know, especially when the injury started piling up in
a lot.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well, the injuries, I think it is the biggest concern
of all, yeah, stay healthy.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
And then and then what we saw last week, why
not you know, like the points are so important. I
mean it's everything, that's everything in all sports. Points, that's
everything in all sports. So if you can get a
guy laid in the draft that you know is going
to be the kicker for the next fifteen years for
New York Giants because he's that good, I don't know college,

(30:21):
you know level kickers. So but I was literally talking
about the other day and I was like, why not
draft a kicker late in the draft to secure that
spot because it's been when you look at the season's
end of the last I don't even know how long
it's been since we looked him and like, did we
have a good kick kicking season? More times it's been no,
then yes, So I don't mind it.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, I don't think there's any risk in them using
draft capital. I mean, certainly I wouldn't move up tremendously
to gregor kicker all. Actually, I mean you want to
use a late round pick, a sixth or a seventh,
that's fine. The other option is and I haven't looked
at free agency because I'm still very much invested in
the season. I don't want to rush my life, but
there could be veteran kicker JC on the free agent
market that they could very well entertain. You brought up

(31:05):
young Wayku, and in fairness to him, there was a
snap issue in terms of it not being handled by
Gillan as to why he all of a sudden held up.
But the bottom line is your point is well taken.
It has been an area and a facet of this
team that you don't go in every single week saying
everything's gonna go smooth, guarantee, and that's not you know,

(31:26):
this was being a specialties player because first of all,
I mean from you mentioned the seasons we've worked together,
there was one year and this may have actually actually
this was one of the years you were with the Giants.
How many games did you wind up losing because of
a game winning field goal to the US right the
Patriots game right here at Medlife Stadium. So you know,
once again, no personal issues. I'm not trying to rub

(31:47):
it inas without a doubt. So yeah, the question about
the kicker is a valid one, and if they want
to address it either through free agency of the draft,
I think that's warranted. As far as the event evaluation
of Mike Kafka for the permanent role as the head coach. Well,
I mean, Joe Shane had his press conference right before
the bye week and made it clear that they will

(32:08):
continue to evaluate him and that he will get a
shot at an interview. And if you remember Spags, you
brought him up. Spag's got an interview too when he
was an interim coach. It's normal that they're going to
give the interim first of all, even if you don't
hire the coach, I would say, I'd want to hear
what he saw firsthand, right behind closed doors. I know

(32:29):
that the coach and the GM are talking.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Right now, knows more than him right now, without a doubt.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
So there's value in having a conversation with Kafka to
see what worked, what didn't, what he would tweak. And
also he's been here with the team for several years,
so his lens I think is important to get that
perspective from throughout the course of that interview. But just
like we're talking about the players the next four games
and how they go up against, remember teams that mathematically

(32:56):
or not Juggernauts have issues, is going to also tell
an awful lot about his realistic shot and what type
of a statement. As far as candidates, it's wide open
at this point. I mean they can look at anybody.
But remember, you know, based on the playoff schedule too,
that's going to impact when and who they could talk

(33:17):
to because of some of the tweaks and rules they made.
Anyone who's a free agent the Giants are going to
be free to speak to once the season ends, But
anyone who is currently on a coaching staff, there's gonna
be some challenges because they're going to be involved in
their own playoff run. So you have to keep that
in mind as well.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And the Giants are an appealing job. You know, this
is appealing job here, this is you know, you have
a quarterback, a quarterback for the future. You know, you
got a talented stable of running backs. You know a
young guy that is a folklore hero right in Cam Scattabu.
You got a number one receiver, you got a top
tier left tackle in a solid old line. His line

(33:53):
has I think progressed this year, one of the bright
spots that's been very consistent on offense.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Now, Illumino's to be a free agent just for context, Yeah,
but still if you can keep those two guys together,
Jeff R two.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
If I'm not mistaken, right, Yeah, and then on defense, right,
you got so many different pieces. I do think we
need a corner. I think that's something that you need.
But forget all of the details and stuff like that.
But I just think that coaches would want to come
to New.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
York sure well, and also the market too, Yeah, the
New York markets get any bigger than that history.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, you know, this is a great organization. Why is
it a great organization? Not because what they've been putting
out on the field the last couple of years. Because
of the history, right, and then from the top all
the way down. This is run by great people, right.
Everybody in this building is a great person. Like I've
come in here all the time and I speak to everyone.
This is a greade A organization. I've been around. I'm
not gonna talk about the other other organizations, but I

(34:47):
know the difference, right, and this is a greade A organization.
So I don't think we're the only ones that know
that though, you know, I think these coaches understand that,
and then they look at it like, hey man, this
this roster is not that bad either. They got a
quarterback for the future that we got cheap for the
next few years. Right, you got a left tackle, you
got pieces. That makes this job of real appealing job.
So I just hope that the process is done correctly.

(35:09):
You pick the right coach and we don't pick another
coach for like twenty years.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Well, listen, good teams, the consistent ones. I don't need
to tell you this pre stability. You know, everybody not
to get off topic, but I laugh. You know, there's
been a lot of articles written about Mike Tomlin and
whether or not the Steelers should move on. It's sickle
goal every year. Yeah, what does he do? He keeps
the team in the fold. They won a big game
against Baltimore the other day. They're now in position to

(35:35):
win a division title again. So I mean, what would
you rather have, jac would you rather be in it
every single year, have a legitimate shot, or you know,
every five or six years, maybe be competitive. I don't know,
let me get back to you on that front. It's
just it's laughable.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's five coaches since Coughlan. Coughlan it was five, it's
five total, if I'm not mistaken, giving a new one.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Coming up, right, you're talking about since Coughland came in. Yeah,
because well it's seven if you include the two interims.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Oh right, okay, yeah, I didn't even think about the interims. Yeah,
but like what is that?

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Yeah, whereas I thought you were bringing up in comparison,
Mike Tomlin, you need one hand to talk about the
last right, forty fifty years head coaches, that's what you're sure?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
No, no, no, I was just talking about what's been here,
what's happened since the Giants And yeah, and and John,
you know, he's trying to do John Mary, He's trying
to do the best for the team. Like people's like, oh,
what's John doing? You know, I hear everything, just like
you two lands, right, we hear everything that they're saying.
And I'm like, he's trying to do the best. And
the thing is, he doesn't call plays, he doesn't pick

(36:39):
the roster, right, he picks those guys based on his
decisions and all of that. Yep. And and I'm that failed,
you know, like that that's just what it is. And
I say that from the record, right, the Giants have
one of the worst records, if not the worst record
since twenty twenty two, for sure, and maybe since twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, you could go back only in terms of the volume.
I don't know the exact cutoff of the year, but
I mean think Aboututtom.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Three for shore Well, which is that's bad.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Without a doubt. I mean, look take away sixteen and
twenty two. You don't have any playoff appearances. I mean
we know that, and I mean even in twenty two.
And I think the diehard Giants fans will acknowledge that
there are so many games and granted you talked about
how you walk that fine line just about every game,
but we could be talking about plenty of those games
that could have went the opposite way.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
We're not going to twenty No, I'm not giving given
a playoffs.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Well, I can't listen. No matter how powerful you may
think I am. I have no influence in terms of
going back in the past. I don't have Marvel heroics
to do that and go back in my time machine.
But in all serious is the point is, though, because
you were going back to the Patriots, we were talking
earlier in the show, there's a brand of football at Dominance.
You know, it's been quite some time since we can

(37:53):
say that being synonymous with the Giants where every week
you go in and teams are a little bit concerned
about what they're going up against.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
I mean you know that as a former player. You
know every week you look at who you're playing and
you go in and there's a different feel. It's not
to say you're taking anyone for granted, but because of
how they play and the coaching staff and what they've
instilled in their players. You play New England one week
and then you play the Dolphins the next week. If
we use the AFC East as an example, I think

(38:25):
there's a different sure, right, in terms of whether or
not you got to put your pads on extra team.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah. And then you look at a team like Houston,
who record doesn't really show how good they really are. Right,
they've won the last few weeks, but they didn't start
out good. But you watch them on TV the last
couple of times, they're like the best team in the league.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
The defense definitely, without a doubt, and that come from
Timiko Ryan's exact player, and the linebackers.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
And they form something down there. Right. It's not just
one player getting all the sacks, right, It's not just
one player on offense dominating the game. No, it's a
collective effort, and I think Will Anderson shows up every
single game, right, just a little bit. But it's a
culture that they've built. And culture is only a sustained thing.
It's not a one year thing. Right. The Giants were

(39:10):
really good a couple of years ago, went to the
playoffs and beat it, you know, a decent Minnesota team.
And since then, like you can't build on nothing that
doesn't exist, you know, like there's culture in Pittsburgh because
Timelin's been there for so long. You understand what you're
getting yourself into. Now, can it run his course? Yes,

(39:33):
that can happen too, but there hasn't been anything established
here since Coughlin and that was a long time ago.
Lance Well.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
And also it's hard to establish what you're talking about
when you're only in the job for two years. If
you get to ye, yes, and then another guy comes
in and replace you, right, I mean, Shermer judge, even before that, Macado,
we can go through the.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Launch even have time, you know, cause like they've all
got time. And let's not get a twisted they all
got time because he won his first year and and
he got four years because the other guys before that,
the max they were getting was two macad who got
fired in the second second year instead of take midway
through the year. He didn't get too you know.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
So it's like, and he took the team to the
playoffs in sixteen, yes he did, whereas Dable took him
in twenty two and twenty three went the opposite way.
And it's listen, everybody's not guaranteed the same pathway. I
think that's well documented.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
We know that.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
But I mean it just goes back to it's very
hard to accomplish what you're calling for if there's not
patience being preached.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
It has to be patients.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, then you could really throw that out the window.
I mean, we could talk about these nice things, continuity, stability.
It's so nice. We could petty each other and you know,
rainbows and lollipops. But yeah, there you go. We'll hold
hands too while we were to the raid of the show.
But in all serious this, the reality is you're not
going to scratch the surface of any of that. If
it's a revolving door every two years, new coach, new GM,

(41:00):
whatever it may be. So you can't even approach those
terms and those words until you can say, we're going
to give this guy the power to run things and
we're going to stick with him, and that has not
been a luxury that the Giants have been able to
subscribe to.

Speaker 6 (41:16):
You.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Let's head back to the phone line. We got Jason
in New Haven with us here on BBKL. What's happened
to Jason?

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Hey, Lance and Johnathan? How you guys are doing today?

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Doing well? What's on your minds?

Speaker 4 (41:26):
Good man? Just two points. You two had already kind
of stole my title what I want to talk about,
but just for the sake of the conversation you guys
were earlier, we're talking about, you know, the whole Jackson Dark,
getting out of bounce, protecting yourself as a quarterback. And
I honestly agree with you guys on that. You know, Jonathan,

(41:47):
I always have respect for those who made it to
the top of the top level and any profession or
any sport, just any profession, right, So whatever your input is,
and Lance, you've covered the league for years, you know,
I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. I
only made it to college, but colobeget ball. But I
will say this that I like about the Dark while

(42:09):
he has taken some lessons, especially the elisit last week
or two weeks ago? What I like about him to me,
along with scatterable, those two, in my opinion, how I
see it from a far, those two to me are
culture centers. And that's why. That's the reason I'll say
this is for some reason, I'm not in the building

(42:32):
like you two are every day.

Speaker 6 (42:34):
But for some.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Reason, this losing kind of attitude I feel is kind
of taking a I don't want to say taking a hold.
I don't want to sound too to out the loop,
but I think those who are trying to change change
the culture right. And while Dart is a quarterback and

(42:57):
this is an old miss and sec, I like the
mentality that he's showing now as he gets older. Our
hope is that he's becoming more smarter and the way
he's taking it sliding getting out of balance with her.
Of course that doesn't need to be said, but I
like the mentality that he has. We don't have enough
of those guys in my opinion, Jonathan, like you stayed

(43:17):
there earlier. We don't have enough of the scatter booze,
enough of the darts, And I like that they're coming
in with this kind of like I wasn't here for
the last few years. I'm going to change the culture.
I'm getting the first down, I'm getting the touchdown. So
I like that about Dark Now he has to be smarter,
like you guys said. But I like that second point

(43:39):
the coaching thing, right, I don't know a lot of
these guys backgrounds and resumes. I'm sure they're all qualified
to be in the positions they're in. But what I
would like to see. I'm not saying you guys have
to agree to disagree, but just for conversation, we haven't
had this from Coffland, right, And what I mean is
a lot of people are so concerned, well, we need

(44:00):
a head coach to maximize dart. You know, we need
a coach to maximize the offense. We need a coach
to maximize the defense. I want to see, I want
to see I want to see a leader right in
my opinion, as when you're a head coach, your main
objective is to build a culture and to show accountability

(44:22):
and excellence on the field. That to me, that's a
job as a head coach as a part of the
excellent os of offense and defense. So you know why
the Patriots were filming at the mouth because parable was
it that person when he played for the Patriots. You
know what, Mike Tomlin and Steels are always in the
playoffs every year because he requires excellence. Now, they might

(44:42):
not win the chip every year, but to be in
a playoff every year and win the division every year,
that to me is is requiring your team to play
with excellence. And that's what I want to see as
a new head coach. I don't care if they're offensive
guru or they're great with quarterbacks the defensive gurus. I
want to see a leader of men. So I think

(45:03):
you guys taking my.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Call and I off the ear, and I think a
lot of interesting talking points. Jason appreciate the phone call
that I want to piggyback off of number one with
respect to you don't necessarily need to bring in a
play caller. I wholeheartedly agree with him. Actually, let's stick
with New England JC vrabel. What was one of his
best hires, Josh McDaniels, And he gave Drake May to

(45:25):
Josh McDaniels and said, you guys go off to your
own corner, not saying that same hight. And we know
McDaniels has a great track record with quarterbacks and may
looks like a completely different quarterback. Right, we're talking about
a guy that's leading the NFL in passing yards at
completion percentage during that last Giants game. So you can
have a good delegator of responsibility who knows how to

(45:47):
command a room, command the team, and empowers coordinators and
doesn't have to be bottled up in the play caller. Now,
in fairness, Andy Reid has done both very well, so
I don't want to say that there's one shoe that
fits all. And also I think I brought this up
a our previous shows. But if we go back to
the comment from the last call of Jason, the Giants

(46:08):
also have plenty of examples across the board. Pat Shermer
offensive background, right, and then you look at Ben mcazuu
offensive background, Brian Dable offensive background. Now, Joe Judge.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Was more of spare teams.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
You know, he was a special teams, but he was
more of that guy that you would say you bring
him in and he delegates because he's not a play caller,
and we know how that turned out. So the point
is you could say they've tried different things it hasn't
necessarily led to great results. So if they want to
go down any of the roads, they wouldn't necessarily be
wrong for doing that. Coughlin was a delegator, He was

(46:45):
a commander of the room, and he empowered his coordinators
like the Kevin Gilbrides of the world, like the spags
Is of the world. And it worked. It was a
good fit to each their own. As I say once again,
it doesn't have to be that type of philosophy. But
the idea that you've got to go with a defensive
coordinator because the Giants defense isn't good, or you got

(47:05):
to go with an offensive coordinator because they have a
young quarterback, I completely disagree with those sentiments me too.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
I actually agree verbatim what Jason said, and I want
a leader of men because I've seen with this last
ten years since I've been retired.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Eight years i've been retired, not that all who's counting.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
But you know the last eight eight nine, well, I
guess ten years. Let's go ten years because Coughlan was
here in fifteen and that was my first year with
the Giants. So the last ten years.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Of the year you're commemorating your anniversary with the little
start of the team. How sweet? Yes, please go ahead,
I don't want it.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, but it's I just think that there are certain
coaches that are built to be head coaches, right, and
there are certain coaches that will never be a good
head coach because they don't fit what a head coach
needs to be, you know. And I'm not saying SPACs
can't be a great head coach, but clearly he's a
better defensive coordinator than he is a head coach. Sure,

(48:00):
and I think that might be the case for day Boy.
It might be the case for several coaches that the
Giants had. But who's to say that John Marra Joe
Shane is wrong for giving a guy an opportunity because
he shows promise, right. But I've just believed, I truly
believe what Jason said. You need a leader of men,
somebody that can get in here, Like you said, get

(48:21):
the coaches involved and have them be their lieutenants, right,
and then you have to get the leaders of the
locker room be your chiefs. Right. If you look at
what the Patriots did, right, the guy, of course on
offense was Tom Brady, of course, right, But the guy
on defense was Vince Wilford when I got there. Right,
it was Gerard Mayo, Right, it was Dante High Tower,

(48:43):
it was Devin mccordy. Like they held the standard, right,
and that was coming from Bill. So a guy that
comes in to be the leader of this organization has
to be a five star general, somebody who I believe
is a delegator. You don't have to be that smart lance,

(49:03):
you don't have to be that savvy as an offensive guy.
You don't have to be mean, but you have to
be a leader and you have to have every single
person in that locker room following you without questioning one bit.
The guy yesterday for the Charger is the one that
made the interception at the end of the game, Jefferson.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
I believe you know what.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
He said about his quarterback. He said, I'll fight, I'll
die for him, That's what he said. I was like, Yo,
that's what's up. But like, you want to have that
as a team because guys are willing to put in
extra effort, They're willing to put their life on the line,
their body on the line. Let's be real about this.
Like football is a dangerous sports, So you are putting

(49:45):
your life on the line for sure, but not even
that serious in you know. But it's it's just the
culture that I've seen in different winning organizations. I just
haven't seen it here for the New York and I
just don't think they had the right guy leading this
team and leading this organization.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yet glad you brought the Chargers. Harbaugh is another great
example delegator, right, he brings in Greg Roman. They have
a history of rookie together. But Harbo's not the play caller.
He just he's on the sideline taking command of everything,
and he's got sure. So there's a lot of strong
models that come from the Coaughlin school of thought. So

(50:27):
if the Giants wanted to go back in the direction,
that's fine. But then you look at what Ben Johnson
has done for the Bears. Okay, Ben Johnson is an
offensive minded guru. He's the head coach and he calls
the plays. Well, that's done. Wonders for Caleb Williams right
in the Bears thus far the.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Results of Sean McVay when he first got home.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Without a doubt. So I could give you attractive examples
on both sides of the equation. But we know that
the Giants model that at least has worked. Now, Coughlin
is maybe an unreachable standard given what he did for
this organization. I'm not saying that it can't be duplicate,
but I mean, you're going to like the highest point.
But that worked because he knew what he was strong

(51:07):
at and he knew that he didn't want to be
bottled down with play calling. But they can find whoever
the coach is whether well, if Kafka is given the promotion,
we know Kafka is going to be the play caller,
so there's not really mystery there. But if they go
in a different direction, what do you do through the
interview process, jac you asked that coach. I mean, one
of the biggest questions is what do you think of Dart?

(51:29):
What do you think you'd run with Dart at the controls?
And would you be the play caller or would you
bring somebody in? And if you're going to bring somebody in,
who do you envision? I mean, those would be the
pressing questions that I would have if I'm interviewing a candidate.
Because not to say that Dart is going to be
the only indicator of the trajectory of this team, but
he's certainly a very key component of what you want

(51:53):
to do here moving forward.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, and I don't want to. I mean, I'm a
defensive guy, so let's not I'm biased. Of course, I
can't even say I'm not biased. I'm very But you
got to ask tough questions on defense too.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Well if they're on offensive mind players.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Too, who are you gonna what are you gonna do
with Dexter? Sure, that's it all, and that that is
just saying I think and I do think. Look, I
think look day Ball got fired, right, I think he
made a huge mistake in saying this out loud what
he said that Jackson dar is the leader of this
football team after one of those games, and I just

(52:28):
put my hand on my head. I was like, bro,
like he's not, and he hasn't been. I mean, he
is a leader, he will be eventually. But there's guys
here that's been here before you, Dave Ball, that's been
the leader of this team, you know what I mean?
And like, I just feel like it just that showed
me he truly didn't understand the locker room dynamic of

(52:49):
a football team, right, and you when you bringing the
guy in here, they have to fully understand the locker
room dynamic because you can't not get the most out
of your locker room. That is the number one thing,
not your quarterback. It's the entirety of your roster. Can
I get the most out of my roster? Can I

(53:09):
get practice squad guys going hard at practice, you know,
And that is the culture that is built. There is
no culture from a guy that never was a head coach.
There's no culture there, right, And the Giants they've only
done that once in the last ten years. Shermer was
the only guy with previous head coach experience, if I'm not.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Mistaken, of the recent group of guys. Correct, Yes, Shermer
was the only one with recent history. Yeah, because Stable
was not a previous head coach.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Right, So you know, like for me, we gotta give
a little time, We gotta give a little grace, just
like you would with a rookie, right, rookie GM rookie
head coach. They're gonna make mistakes, right, so coming in
I don't expect whoever comes in to be perfect. In
the Giants all of a sudden, you know, twelve and
five and they're making the playoffs, you know, got the
two seed or whatever, like I'm not expecting that, but

(53:58):
I do want to see progress in the culture of
the organization, right, not the wins and losses. I mean,
it's gonna be not too hard to win more than
they did this season. Every game is difficult, it across
like that. But I mean, two wins this late in
season is crazy. But I want that's what I want

(54:18):
to see. First. I want to see, can you get
every guy in that locker room. Can you get your
stars playing like stars? Can you get your young guys
not making silly, unprofessional mistakes? Right? Can you get your
roster to do that? Now, let's see what you look
like on the football field, because you have to take
care of that first.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Real quickly. Before we get back to the calls. You
were bringing up a point talking about you can't just
focus on one facet. Interestingly, the NFC East is being
showcased on Hard Knocks, and one of the cutaways showed ROSCA,
Yeah I did. I showed the first only one episode.
Get good, don't worry. We'll give you time to catch
and that I'll truly test you maybe in about a
week or two. But they showed a little bit of

(54:57):
the Giants, and they showed when Charlie Bowens, the new
defensive coordinator, addressed the unit for the first time, who
was sitting in the room Mike Kafka, Which is why
I think there is an attractiveness about a guy not
being bottled up into just play calling. So this way
he can be a tentative right to the other elements
of the team. And I think Kafka deserves credit. I

(55:18):
think he's done a really nice job since he's took
over his interim coach to make sure that he's available
to the other areas of the team. Not to say
Dable wasn't doing that, but it's very evident that he's
going out of his way to do that, and I
think that is maybe something that is a lost art
that gets overlooked.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
And this is good for him before you go on
to the call. This is good for him too because
he had previous head coaching interviews as well. This is
good experience for him. Let's say the Giants don't keep
him on staff at all. You know, he could be
a viable option for a team. He could definitely be
an offense coordinate. We've already seen that, yeah, you know,
but I think he's a bi option and he has
some on job experience now behind him. Because again it's

(55:56):
hard to bring in a guy and say culture, because
he does doesn't have anything. He'd never He's zero zero
as a head coach, you know, like, how good is
he going to be as an NFL player? He's never
played an NFL game, and I'm talking about a player.
Same thing with coaches. You don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Of course, there's no proof in the pudding right to
use that statement. Yet without a down, let's head back
to the lines. You've got Lawrence in Florida with us
on BBKL. What's happened to Lawrence?

Speaker 5 (56:21):
All right?

Speaker 7 (56:21):
Thanks for having me?

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Sure.

Speaker 7 (56:23):
I just want to say I want the Giants to
get some tough guys on that team. I mean, these
guys they tackle high. Uh, they'll tackle them for a
three yards game. By time they bring them down, he
gained eight yards. None of the Giants would have hit
the Patriot quarterback like that guy had thought out of bounds.
And I never ever saw a paint cup off a

(56:44):
helmet before. I mean, you got to get some tough
guys in there flattening some people and being intimidated, more
physical than these giant guys are. They just barely pushed
the guy out of bounds. They kind of tackled their arms,
tackle high. There's five guys try to bring one guy down.
A guy scrambles another twenty yards. That's all I want
to say. I were some top guys of Burns and

(57:09):
I'm with you, and that's all I got to say.
I'll take an answer off.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
That, Larn yet appreciate the phone call. Well, I mean
that goes back to what you were talking about earlier, Jase.
I mean, I think you made that very clear that
the caliber of the players in the locker room, their
mindset rolls over to clearly the field. So I mean
that question slash statement is in line with what at
least we've been addressing throughout the remainder of the program.

(57:32):
Let's head back to the lines we got Len in Columbia,
Maryland with us. What's happened when Hey.

Speaker 6 (57:37):
Guys, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
You're right?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
What's going on?

Speaker 6 (57:40):
A couple of quick questions, one for each of you.
A lance. On the Hard Knocks episode last week, the
first time they showed the giants, it was a coach
with two or three players trying to find the I

(58:02):
thought that was somewhat telling and not a very good optic.
And Jonathan on the leader of men thing. Don't you
think they had found a leader of men in their
last four coaching hires. No, this is nothing new. They're
always looking for leaders of men. I got a suggestion, John,

(58:25):
if we're going to look for a leader of men,
let's look for somebody who's got some accomplishments that we
can look at it and say, Wow, that's a leader
of men. Like they've been to the playoffs, they've got
a Super Bowl ring, they've been coaching in the NFL,

(58:45):
they've got NFC experience. They know what it's like to
go into those stadiums and win games. Leader of men, John,
if you're going to sit there and make a judgment
about a thirty eight year old guy, you're going to
have a tougher time. Then if you look at somebody
who's got some pelts, John, who's got some accomplishments that

(59:08):
he can write down on a resume that indicate that
he's a leader of men. Let's forget with this with
these young coordinators. Got to get somebody with head coaching
experience who has some stuff on the resume. John, Look,
I didn't think we were going to get much out

(59:28):
of this season, and I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed for two reasons.
One that I'm right, we're not getting much out of
the season, and two, jeez, I thought we'd be further along.
I just thought we'd be further along. Let me talk
about something and kind of gets your opinion on it here.

(59:53):
Right now, today, this organization is sideways. There is so
much on certainty. I don't know how these guys know
from day to day who's coaching them. I mean we
fired a coach a week for the last three weeks.
I mean them from the from the corporate suite all

(01:00:15):
the way down into the locker room. There is so
much uncertainty. I don't know how these guys concentrate. I'm
hoping we can our key players, the eight to ten
guys that are going to carry us forward, Lance, Jonathan,
the eight to ten guys can stay healthy because two
of those eight to ten guys are already hurt.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Yeah, scotta Booin Neighbors.

Speaker 6 (01:00:38):
I mean, come on, I mean, it's not a lot. Now.
We're not going to fire seventy you know, probably we've
got we're holding contracts on about seventy five people today. Okay,
now some of them are really short term if you
want to practice squad, but technically they're run the contract
with with us. We're not We're not going to fire
sixty five guys. Some of the some of the people

(01:01:00):
that are on this RUSS are coming back. But man,
I just don't know until we can start settling things down,
how these guys are going to be able to concentrate
and try to win a football game. And I think
these next four are somewhat important. I mean, we got
two division rivals at home. You know that's a step forward.

(01:01:21):
If we can take one of those two or take
them both and will give us a win over all
of our division rivals at home, that's an important That
to me is an important step. And John, I know,
I know you agree with me on this. A Lance
probably does too. Man, you got to win those home games.
You know, you can't keep leaving you getting your best

(01:01:42):
customers going down those escalators in a bad mood. Well,
also they know you've lost your best customers.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
And they also definitely got to win on the road.
They haven't won on the road since early last season,
so you know that's been just as problematic. I understand
from a business respective where you're coming from, no disagreement there,
but I mean wherever you're playing, I think at this
point there's that urgency to finish and put together wins

(01:02:10):
and listen, what we're up against the clock here. So
we'll let you go on that. Noelne do want to
react to a few of the things he threw out
before we wrap up the show. The first thing being
for those that may have not caught the Hard Knocks episode.
He was referencing Tim Kelly, who's the new offensive coordinator,
was joking with I don't want to spoil it for you, okay,
but right at the beginning this is clip has been
all over online. He was with Jackson darn at theo

(01:02:32):
Johnson and they were trying to determine which direction the
ocean is in terms of what's creating the winds in
the meadowlands. And I mean dart is He acknowledged darts
from Utah. I mean, as a native New Yorker, I
wouldn't blame a kid from Utah to not necessarily understand
the geography of New York City.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
He did.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
He was unsure of where the bodies of water were,
but I looked at it, it was all good and fun,
and I think Tim Kelly was having some fun at
Dart's expanse. I mean to read into that and say
that it's a reflection of what's going on the football field,
and I think we'll take it a little too far.
I get it. You know, you want to look for
ingredients here or there. That to me was just a

(01:03:10):
comedic element that goes on in the practice field JC,
which I'm sure you've taken part and seen things as
you needle each other. I really don't think that has
any impact what'sl of what's going on on.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
The football giving you. Last time we're on HBO, it
was kind of not that great.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Well, that was more dear in fairness towards the off season.
This is actually in season and they've had I mean,
I will think we need to have another show to
explain that. But what I'm saying is it's a different
approach in terms of watch So I just wanted to
at least provide the context, especially if some of our
viewers are listeners. As far as the point about going

(01:03:51):
after somebody with previous head coaching experience, well, we talked
about Shermer did have previous head coaching experience. I'm not
saying he's got the resume of let's say, a Mike McCarthy,
per se. So there's nothing wrong to flip the script
and say, all right, we're only gonna consider individuals. But
I mean, Brian Dable did not have coaching experience, but
he's coached in the NFL for a lot of years,

(01:04:11):
so you know, eventually, it's like anything else in life,
you gotta give a guy a chance. Right, How do
you get head coaching experience if you're never given the chance.
So that's how a lot of teams are thinking. But
if they wanted to go to the direction and say
we're only gonna consider veteran head coaches who have winning resumes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Your pooled drastically.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Without a doubt, and that you took the words right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
And head coach. If you don't go offensive defensive coordinator. Yeah, well,
this is my thing, and I think we could probably
end on this, hopefully Lance over time. I just think
like and I look at it as like, I feel
like my characteristics and who I am as a player
on the field. I was a lot better at weekside

(01:04:55):
linebacker than middle linebacker. And I'm saying that because it's
literally the next step over, like it's three two yards,
not a yard and a half. But it's just a
different way that I play the game and how my
makeup is as a player. And I think coaches are
like that too. They have a different makeup of them

(01:05:16):
that makes them great coordinators, and then there's different makeup
of guys that can be a good coordinator, great coordinator,
but he still has the tools to be a head coach.
I just think that sometimes we don't look at those
tools that they are intangibles, like you do a of
a quarterback right, or is he smart?

Speaker 6 (01:05:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Does he have a good family at home? Like those
things matter when it comes to how good a player is.
I think that we got to start looking at more
of the intangibles and not so much the resume of
a coach, especially when you're talking about offensive defensive coordinators,
because if you're up for a head coaching job, you've
probably been doing a good job at your job. But
that doesn't mean that this new job you're going to

(01:05:57):
be good at.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
I think that is old very fair and valid points.
I guess the response would be, sometimes though it's hard
to evaluate the intangibles until you put the guy into revisisior.
For example, Joe Judge Right Belichick gave a high recommendation,
I'm sure to the giants and you figured it, all right.
He's a special teams coach. He can understand what it
means to balance various different facets. But you don't know

(01:06:20):
until all of a sudden, you know, you throw him
into the deep end of the pool and you take
away the swimmys and you see whether or not he
could paddle or he could actually, you know, look like
he's an Olympic swimmer. So it's hard. There's no easy answer.
But as far as the point about if you just
are very selective in proven head coaches, a you're gonna
have one or two legitimate candidates. And I think in

(01:06:43):
order to do a very detailed interview process, you got
to open yourself up to at least have the dialogue
with people that may not fit the bill, just for
a learning experience and to get their perspective on what
they think of the team. All right. That is going
to wrap things up for us here. On Tuesday's edition
of Big Blue Kikoff Live presented by Caount, the official
luxury vehicle of the New York Giants, broadcasting for the

(01:07:03):
Giants Podcast Studio presented by Hacket Zach Maury in health,
keep getting better, Jac This was a pleasure man, hope
that we don't have to wait as long.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
To see you. Yes, correct, happy?

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
I want to I can tell. And there's no acting
at all involved in that, even though the high pitch
voice came out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
But it's been a long it's been a long time.
I mean we did twenty twenty two together basically, sure,
and then we did a little bit twenty twenty three,
and then it's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Been like it has it has been. You know, I
don't know why they're trying to keep us apart, but
you know, making this is a unif for you, without
a doubt. My heart is bigger I can't even show
it with respect to that. All Right, this love fest
is coming to an end here on Big Blue Kickoff Live.
Saylocked to Giants dot com. Frole the Latest will be
back up and running on Wednesday at twelve thirty pm Eastern.
For Jonathan is Is he is on Lance Meadow. So long

(01:07:45):
here on Big Blue Kickoff Live. Have a good one.