Big Blue Kickoff Live 2/7 | Hall of Fame Vote Reaction

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino discuss last night’s Hall of Fame announcement, talk about Eli Manning’s career, and take calls from fans.

:00 - Hall of Fame vote

20:00 - Super Bowl runs

33:00 - Calls

42:00 - More on Eli Manning

57:00 - Super Bowl predictions

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a big Blue kickoff line. Nobody can
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New York Giant Track and the Giants Mobile one time down.
We are TACK, part of the Giants podcast Network.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Dog.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello everybody, and welcome to Friday's edition s Sure a
Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury
vehicle the New York Football Giants. I am John Schmelt,
joined by Paul Tatino. The phone number and we want
to talk to you is two A one nine three
nine four five one three.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
All right.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I know I had promised everybody Paul and I were
going to do our you know where the Best Places
to Draft the Quarterback debate today, But given the Hall
of Fame vote last night, which I probably should have
thought about ahead of time, which I did not, we're
gonna push that. I'm off next week to the week
prior to the NFL combine, So that's gonna come your
way and probably eleven days from today, give or take
when when when Paul and I are on that Tuesday

(01:03):
and Wednesday. But we thought it was only appropriate that
we talk about the Hall of Fame vote and we
could do a little Super Bowl as well on today's
show on Big Blue Kickoff Live. And I hope I
mentally prepared for the giant fans out there that are
listeners to Big Blue Kickoff Live.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
And this is why.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
You listen to the show, folks who try to give
you inside and information that other people don't. I've been
telling you for a while now that by from talking
to the Hall of Fame voters that I knew and
have gotten a feel for that room, that it was
going to be a tough go for Eli Manning, especially
in year number one. That turned out to be the case.
He was not elected to the Hall of Fame. Elected

(01:39):
this year off of the veterans list was throwing sharp,
Antonio Gates, Jared Allen, and Eric Allen were off the
modern day player list, which means guys like Tory Holt again,
guys like Luke Keikley, who I thought was almost a
shoe in given his history and his his you know, resume,
and of course former Giants quarterback in two times Super

(02:00):
Bowl champion and MVP Eli Manning and not making it
into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Obviously, if you're
listening to this live, you can't do this. But if
you're listening to this on podcast, I would heartily recommend
you go listen to the Giants Huddle podcast that we
just posted. It's up on the YouTube channel, it's up
on the podcast platform, right Pierson, and it's gonna be
up on the website too. I do an hour pretty

(02:22):
much with Gary Myers and Bob Globber. Those are the
two New York reps that are Hall of Fame voters.
Bob Glober literally did the presentation to convince the voters
to get Eli Manning in the Hall of Fame. Based
on my talk with them, him and Gary Myers basically
locked arms together and try to take us many had
the bullets flying back at them as they could in
arguing for Eli's case to make it into the Hall

(02:44):
of Fame. Go listen to that Giants Little podcast. We're
gonna refer.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Back to that a bunch today. I did the interview, Paul.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Listen to the interview, so we'll use a lot of
the information from that in our conversation today. So again,
if you're listening to this on podcasts or on the
YouTube channel. Just it pause, go watch or listen to
the huddle first, and then come back to us, and
then we'll take your calls and we'll talk about what
happened with Eli not making into the Hall of Fame.
So I have a very upset and a little bit

(03:13):
of angry old Italian man next to me.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Paul, you have described it accurately in every way. I
have not seen Paul this angry in quite a while.
He is not happy.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Pierce and I slipped some stuff into a salad before
we walked in here, hoping to calm him down. I'm
not sure if it worked, Paul, Yeah, give me your take.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, to be fair, we both had discussed this for
quite a while, and we knew of the growing sentiment
against Eli Manning for several months. This was not a surprise.
You're right. The first ballid thing was specifically the one
that gets me very very very very angry, because I

(03:54):
think that a first ballad designation is probably amongst the
poorest water down and least impressive reasons you can give
against a player, and that's any player that's not Eli Manning.
Let me make that very clear. I just don't think
first ballot is a very big deal because once the

(04:14):
guy gets into the hall, I know Deon Sanders wants
there to be a line of delineation and a second
floor for the best of the best. The bust does
not indicate you a first ballot. The little shelf they
put the bust on does not indicate for his ballot.
Nobody cares. Once you're in the Hall of Fame and
they present your bust, and people come in for years

(04:37):
and years and years and come in to see it.
As John Madden says, the busts all talk to each
other right after they close the door at the end
of the night. The designation of what year you got
in means absolutely nothing.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
It doesn't say first ballot on the plaque.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well there's not even a plaque. Well what's a nameplay?

Speaker 3 (04:57):
But that doesn't there's no dedication in Hall of Fame
whether or not you were first.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
You get a bust and you get a nameplate, right,
and it says the year you were in the year
you put in. It does not say how many years
you were forced to wait or how many years you
weren't forced to wait. And if you were a quote
first ballot, ooh little ass risk, you were a first ballot.
Now it doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
I did ask Bob and Gary if next year, when
he's not first battle, that make a difference, and both
of them pretty much said, no, we don't think it's
going to right now.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
I listened already. And by the way, guys, I've known
Gary and Bob forever. They were phenomenal in making the
presentation based on what I've heard from them both. I
talked to both of them right before the vote, and
I heard all of their arguments pre vote. I then
listened to John's program this morning and heard all of

(05:45):
their arguments post vote. I can tell you every Giants
fan out there who was rooting free Eli, I would
also say everything they did was as thorough as you
could be.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
You would dynamite, You could not have better. You couldn't
there for him, you could not.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
I am one thousand percent behind their contribution to Eli's candidacy.
Having said that, I still and they did say both
while Gary doesn't believe first ballot holds any distinction, Bob
kind of said, yeah, there is kind of a little bit.
Gary didn't think so.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
And I think we've seen that like last year, Antonio
Gates didn't get in on the first ballot when you
should you know, he was a chewing. Eventually, Kickley didn't
get on the first ballot this year, So I do
think and we see that in baseball too, right, where
people don't want to make it unanimous, they don't want
to do first ballot, so they I think that that
is dealing baseball, though I agree it is a bigger
deal in baseball.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
So that's the first hurdle, which I believe was very monumental.
But then there's this second hurdle that Gary and Bob
described to you this morning, which was also quite disturbing.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
And they said this was the most vociferous debate they've
had about a player since Treloan's right, which was not
about on the field s whether or not I you
should count him being just a huge pain in the
butt as a person within the conversation of the Hall
of Fame.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Right, here's my summation of this in a very quick thumbnail.
I'm gonna make it really clear, when you open up
something to a discussion or a decision making process, there
are three ways that a person will approach it. Number One,
they'll be completely objective. They'll say, give me the facts

(07:28):
for both sides, and I will weigh it objectively because
I have no bias and no frame of reference and
no agenda. You will have another group of people who
already have it in their minds, we believe yes, and now,
much like an instant replay, where there has to be

(07:48):
conclusive evidence when they throw it to the instant replay booth,
there needs to be conclusive evidence to make me vote no.
Then there's the third group that believes no, and they
I have it in my mind this is not going
to be and now you have to show them conclusive
evidence to make them flop their vote. So there are

(08:11):
three groups. It sounds to me like there was a
very strong minded group that went into the vote that
was already a no for Eli Manning.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Well, I mean, I think that's like that with all players.
So I think people go into it, they do their
own research, they do their own work on it, and
they have a preconceived notion before they step into the room.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And I think there were clearly enough of those people that,
no matter what Bob and Gary did, based on all
the evidence that I've had from talking to them and
then listening to your spot, I don't know that there
was another stone that they could have unturned to throw
those people into Eli Manning's side of the vote. I

(08:55):
think the people who were no were either no because
A he's Peyton's brother and he's not as good as Peyton,
or B not first ballot, or c his one loss
record isn't good enough, the one that ticked me off.
And I'm not gonna get personal here because I don't
think it's appropriate. It's not professional and it's not appropriate.

(09:18):
So I won't do that. But there is a gentleman
on the committee who extensively wrote all the details about
the actual vote. Okay, you can find him online, but
I'm not going to mention his name, and he he was.
He one of the voters. He's one of the voters.
He's one of the voters. Okay. He wrote extensively in

(09:41):
detail in an article this morning online and he was
one hundred percent against Eli. Nothing was going to change
his mind. He actually threw a grenade at both Bob
and Gary. Now he published this this morning online, so
I'm simple going to read that, because go ahead, I

(10:02):
don't want to be attacking anybody without reading his own stuff.
Read his words, right, that's fine.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
So and I have not seen this before, so I'm
interesting interesting to see.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
What he says. So he makes the comment and by
the way, ELI did not get to the final ten
after they willed it from fifteen to ten, which means
it cannot be a finalist next year unless he goes
through the pool again. Correct.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, So how this works, folks. You go from fifteen
to ten and then down to seven, and then everybody
gets to make five votes of those final seven, which
is why it's tougher to get it now that it
has been in the past. ELI did not get from
the fifteen group to.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
The ten group. Okay, So here's his comment.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Based on the things that we've been told.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
He makes a very derogatory remark about Eli earlier in
his piece, but I'm just going to read you this graph.
He says here. Manning made the cut from twenty five
to fifteen. So he was discussed in the meeting, presented
energetically by bub Glaubert with a strong assist from Gary Myers,
both of whom covered the quarterback sixteen year career. They

(11:06):
insisted Manning deserve to be a first ballot Hall of Famer.
We mentioned this stat which we share have shared with
the Pro Football Hall of Football. Previously, Glauber and Myers
were ap voters for All Pro throughout Manning's career. Not
only did Manning never make All Pro, but he never

(11:28):
received a single vote of the seven hundred and ninety
eight cast for nineteen quarterbacks in those sixteen years. According
to this gentleman, and again this is his salvo, that
means Glauber and Myers had sixty four chances to give
Elai at least one first or second team All Pro vote,
but did not, so the plea to make him a

(11:49):
first ballot Hall of Famer was significantly tainted. Now this
is one of the leaders of the naysayer group. John
did a great job in his spot with Gary and
Bob this morning by pointing out that the era during
which Eli played in is full of a handful and

(12:13):
you can name a wall right off the top of
your head of Hall of Fame quality quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
And and by the way, not just you might have
two of the three best quarterbacks of all time, possibly
in Aaron Brady and Peyton Manning.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Top five. Certainly I would believe that, but obviously there
are a lot of other people who have different opinions
about everybody, not to mention Jew Breeze, not to mention
Ben Roethlisberger, not to mention Brett Favre, not to mention
Aaron Rodgers. Okay, it is a great quarterback era. And
so what really angered me about this gentleman's piece of work, which,

(12:49):
by the way, Eli is not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.
He's not. He's not. I get that he's not. But
here's the problem if you truly want.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
To make it, and by the way, as a regular
season quarterback, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Brett Favre,
he's not Aaron Rodgers. Remember All Pro has nothing to
do a playoff before, correct, So he's not as good
as any of those players as a regular season quarterback, correct,
and probably not even rivers in Roethlisberger.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I have no problem with discussing regular season in its
own compartment. If people want to do that, go ahead
and do it, because there are guys who've had better numbers.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
By the way, do you know how many first team
All pros Rivers.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
In Roethlisberger have none? Zero? Saying Okay, so this gentleman
leads the attack, throwing a salvo with Myers and Glauber
and trying to poke a huge hole in whatever they
said by saying they didn't vote for him All Pro. Now,
to Gary's point, and I don't want to give away

(13:52):
too much of your interview, John, really don't give it away.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I don't care well. To Gary's point, it's how we
aren't going to cover it all here. So it's fine, Okay,
when you vote for All Pro, you vote for first
team All Pro, which is one one quarterback, and you
can vote for second team All Pro and that's it.
And by the way, that's today. Bob wasn't even sure
back then you might just vote for one and they

(14:14):
just take the first and second place guys and that's
the run them up.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
So and even back we'll talk about it.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Eli never got a MVP vote either, which is another thing, which,
by the way, fair arguments. I get where you're coming
from on that. But back then you voted for one
person from MVP, so it's not like you were a
top five like you had.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Now. Okay, So here's where I'm going with this, John,
And I know I've gone a little long, but here's
where I'm going with this because I'm trying to do
this very judiciously and picking apart the salvos that were
thrown by the opposition. Think about this, John, They are
about three hundred and fifty players in the Hall of
Fame today, correct, that's the number. It's about three to fifty.

(14:55):
And the league is, you know, one hundred plus years old.
All right, here's the thing. How many of those three
hundred and fifty how many of those three hundred and
fifty And I don't know the number. I'm not going
to take the time to go through this, but I
guarantee you there is a huge percentage of those three
hundred and fifty who, during the course of their careers

(15:18):
were not necessarily quote the best one or two at
their position. If you've got to hold that kind of
requirement into the qualification, then basically you got to tell
the Hall of Fame committee, guess what, you can only
have three quarterbacks? Ever, only two running backs? Ever? You

(15:39):
know they have all can't do that?

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Most of them were, Most of them were. Most of
them had first team All Pro numbers on their thing. Okay,
they did, most, not all of them, but most of
them do, all right.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
There were also much fewer teams back in the day. Also,
true when bart Starr was playing quarterback, there were few
were teams.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Now again, I believe Eli Manning's a Hall of Famer,
but I have since Paul is very enthusiastic, I'm gonna
have to play a little bit of a devil's advocate here.
I think I'm not a fan of the quarterback record thing.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm on the record saying that right, neither of us are.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
A quarterback record is not a quarterback stat is. What
goes on around a quarterback is just as important. So
just want to make that very clear. But that's part
of it. The number of times Eli made the playoffs. So,
of course of his career, less than half of the
years that he was a starter the Giants made the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's a factor six out of the fourteen when he
was the start of full time. Yep, I'm aware of that,
which is a team stat I understand.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
I'm just he never finished in the top four in
any statistical category in any season.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
That's top four. Where do they play?

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Tom Brady plays in Foxborough and worstwa is still understature.
Mahomes plays in Kansas City, Brett Farr plays in Aaron
Rodgers plays in Green Bay.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
But this has always been. I remember, Roethlisberger plays in
Pittsburgh for most of his career. The Giants were not
a pass happy offense, and he never had never had
a longevity connection with superstar receivers. He had flashes, he
had lash guys that had superstar years, but not superstar correcers.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Correct, that's correct, That's all fair. But okay, look, it's
hard to dismiss all of this when it's together.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's the thing.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Never first or second team All Pro, no MVP votes,
five hundred record in the regular season, never was top
four in any statistical category, less playoffs, and less than
half the years. How many divisions did Elion.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Manning when Paul jeez, I don't even know. I think
four right, didn't even didn't even keep never kept track
of that. I don't. I don't. I again thought that
was relevant.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I'm just putting numbers out there, and I think when
you put all that together, if you want to make
the case that you don't want to put them in
right away, and it's gonna take some time. I understand that.
I believe he as a.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Hall of Famer.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
I think all this stuff we've talked about, the ability
to stay the field, never getting hurt, the playoff success,
all that stuff you talked about, the mitigating factors with
the awards given the era that he played in with
the other quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
But those are.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Legitimate questions. I think you have to think through an
answer when you look at his resume compared to the
guys in front of him, like just for example, Peyton
seven all pro, Brady three, Rogers four, far three, Units five,
Montana three, Breeze one, Marino three, Tarkenton one, Steve Young three.
Now La had zero first team all prom Sure you

(18:32):
get a bunch of second teams.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
I don't have that number here.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Bart Starr one, Terry Bradshaw one, Dan Fouts two, Kurt
one or two, Kenny Stabler one, Sonny Jurgenson one, Bob
Greasy two, Joe Namath one, Lynn Dawson two. So these
are all guys that are in the Hall of Fame,
and they all have that at least one or two
years where they were in the mix as being the
best player at their position. So again I'm not saying

(18:56):
this is overwhelming to the point where I don't think
he deserve to get in. But if I'm there and
I'm trying to break down whether or not someone deserves
are going or not. Those are the arguments I would make,
and I think it's fair to have discussions about those
because those are important markers to how good a player was.
You know, dominance of a player at their particular position
during their era, to me, is a huge part of

(19:17):
the case for someone to make it into the Hall
of Fame, no doubt. And you didn't get even in
his best year in twenty eleven. Now, what bothered me
about some of the things that that what Bob and
Gary said about the pushback, Not just the record part,
which annoyed me, because again Drew Brees and have great

(19:39):
records and f his career either because the Saints team
and them not being good, but the whole thing where
the defense carried the Giants to both Super Bowls. Now
in two thousand and seven, it was more of a
long for the ride situation for Eli. The defense was
really good. They didn't score a ton of points against
the Bucks, all right, they didn't score a ton of

(20:00):
points against the Cowboys. Go watch that game against the
Packers and sub zero freezing temperature, though, and tell me
Eli Man didn't have an unbelievable one of the best
playoff games in the history of the league in those
in those temperatures in green Band the NFCY title game.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
And it should be noted the Giants who were underdogs
in all of those postseasons.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
And he did what he needed to do at the
end of the game against the Patriots. But look, if
you want to say two thousand and seven, and much
like Brady's first Super Bowl, Brady's first Super Bowl was
more about the Patriots defense than it was about him.
I would say it's similar in the Giants first one.
But Eli did again the NFC title game. He was
unbelievable and he was great in.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
The Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
The idea that twenty eleven Eli Manning was not the
main driver of the Giants winning that Super Bowl is
just a misunderstanding of history and not knowing what that
team was like. Absolutely, the defense stunk, the offensive line
wasn't very good. They could have run the ball for
the entire regular season.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
They finished last in the league.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
And that bothered me because that'sh those people were lazy,
mm hmm. Because the twenty eleven season was all Eli.
He was a monster that year.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Actually, that was his best year.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Absolutely, that was almost best quarterback year I've ever seen
in person from covering the Giants. So again that bothered
me because that just shows that people don't know what
the hell they're talking about. Because twenty eleven and again
without Eli, they don't want to know seven either. Was
he the driving force? You can make that argument with
you know, uck oc understood, but they don't win it

(21:28):
without him. He was a huge role in that, but
it was a team effort. Twenty eleven. That team was
on Eli's back for most of that year period. Stop
absolutely and the conversation.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
And if we had Kevin Gilbride sitting right here, he
would not even begin to take a breath and tell
you for about five hours why Eli was the guy
behind that super Bowl, No doubt, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
So look, I do think the argument against him is
that he was never you could even argue a top
four player at his position during his era.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
All right, here, here's what I want to do. Yes,
I want to take it away from this because, as
I said, there are three ways to go into a
decision or a debate.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
But I think, just just to end my point, I
do think the performance in the playoffs then overshadows that
for those.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Two most important games of your career. I would put
you in. But you can't put a guy in a
hole of eight games either, Okay. Paul Schwartz of The
Post today does mention, Uh, there were only six Super
Bowl two time Super Bowl winning MVPs, which of course
does hold some significance. But we could talk about whatever

(22:37):
stats we want.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
And there is one other two Super Bowl winning quarterbacks
that's not in the Hall of Fame, Jim Pluckett.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
But he doesn't have the resume that he has obviously,
well he wasn't a MVP. Well yeah, but they just
just in terms of a guy winning to Super Bowl,
there's been a bunch of them.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah, but I'm talking at won two super Bowls and
are not in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Though there's only one. I'm talking about two times Super
Bowl MVP quarterbacks. That's my son, Tanna Star, Bradshaw, Brady Mahomes,
and Eli Manning. Now we know that Montana Star and
Bradshaw are in. Brady's going to go in. I can't
believe anyone's gonna have enough guts to stand up and

(23:18):
not vote for him. I mean, that's no matter what
they believe.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Here's they made a good case against them. Actually a
lunch today.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
You know, I would love to see the guy who
gets up and says, I don't think anybody should be
first ballot. I'm not voting for Brady. I would love
to see that now, But that's not gonna happens. Okay,
he and mahomes is obviously unless something. I think, even
if it retires tomorrow before the super Bowl, he's probably
gonna get in. I'm interested to see him.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
So Drew Breese is a first batt Hall of Famer
next year, and he should be.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
All right, here's my point. Let's take this away, because
I believe anybody who goes in with a frame of
reference either yes he belongs or no he doesn't. Again,
they're gonna need that conclusive evidence like a replay guy
to get overturned. So you're gonna have your numbers if
you're a negative. You're gonna have your numbers if you're

(24:06):
a positive. And we could fight that all day. Here's
what I'm gonna say. In theory. Let's take big picture.
Big picture. If the line of delineation, folks, you can
see this right here, right, you can see this right Pierson.
If this is the line for greatness. Okay, this is
the Hall of Fame line. We've put a nice high
standard here. What does it matter if the guy is

(24:29):
up here, or if the guy is up here, if
he is a Hall of Famer, he is a Hall
of Famer. Because once you get in the door, you're
in the door. It's like, Hey, guess what, I got
a Super Bowl ticket. So I'm sitting up in the
upper deck behind you know, the lights, lighting stanchions in

(24:49):
the last row, behind the end zone. But I'm in
the building. You got a ticket that's on the fifty
yard line in the first row. Your ticket costs a
whole lot more than mine. You have a better seat
than I have. We're both in the building. We're both
in the building, right that. So I'm taking it away
from all the stats, folks. Let's just take it away
from all the stats. I don't want to hear about

(25:12):
level of or first ballot, not first ballot. If the
guy is in the building, if he gets a ticket,
if he's deserving of a ticket in the building, don't
hold it against for him. I get that, don't hold
it against him.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
And Gary Meyers made that point during the podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
And that's how right he said it differently, But I
and that's just a very generic, you know, deep in
the farest philosophical opinion. If the guy's in the building,
I don't care what rowot section he's in. He's in
the building. He doesn't have to be on the fifty
yard line, you know, getting all of you accoutrements of
the luxury box. He doesn't have to have that. He's in. No,

(25:49):
I get that.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
I agree, So I don't think that's wrong, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
So that's just kind of a but you know, sometimes.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
It takes a few times around to get used to
an idea that maybe you object to it first, right,
that goes.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
But the point why I bring that to the table,
And it's odd for me not to come with, like,
you know, to be a philosophical instead of factual here.
But I bring that to the table for this reason.
For those people who compare the candidate and this is
not an ELI problem now, but for those people who
compare a candidate to the guys who are already in.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Right, which I think is also something you need to do.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Agree with that right, right, So there's always going to
be a group that says, all right, well, he's not
better than this guy up here who's sitting on the
fifty yard line in the luxury box. And that's okay.
The point is he doesn't have to be. But is
he as good or better than the guy who's in
the last row in the upper deck behind the end zone.

(26:50):
Maybe your guy is in the middle deck on the
twenty yard line. So he's not as good as some
of the Hall of famers, but he's better than some
of the other Right, How is that not an overriding
factor for somebody can't who can't get their way through
the numbers to see a man's reasonable, legitimate career that

(27:17):
deserves to be put in How can you not do that?
That's the part that I don't understand.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
Well.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
I think they think when they do look at his
career totality, that they don't see him above the line.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Again, some of the feats in this particular case, with
this particular player with Eli because I'm trying to go
generic here, John, because I don't want to make this personal.
I'm trying to go generic. I really am. I'm trying hard,
and you know that I'm trying really hard not to
make this personal. Is it personal to you? But when

(27:49):
you look at a when you look at a candidate,
and there are certain absolutely indisputable facts the player did this, this,
and this, as somebody tweeted out to us today. One
of an NFL scout tweeted to both of us today.
He said, Eli Manning in the two Super Bowl runs

(28:09):
when they when they won the championship eight no, in
the biggest, most important games of his career, beat Tom
Brady twice and the Patriots twice, uh ruined the undefeated season.
That's legendary stuff. That's legendary stuff. I agree.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
But you cannot base a hole of mean resume on
eight games.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Okay, here's the problem doing this. Joe Namath did what
he did in Super Bowl three because it was legendary,
it was historic, It helped change the face of the game,
much like what the Patriots were trying to do with
their footprint into NFL history. And they got thwarted and

(28:57):
it was Eli's last game winning touchdown drive that that
that that that solidified their loss. I agree.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Namath had one first team All Pro and one more
Pro Bowl than he light did.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Okay, and he also had Don Maynard, a Hall of
Fame wide receiver for his whole Jets career, and he
had Matt Snell, who who was phenomenal in Super Bowl
three and should have been the game MVP. So you know,
if you just strictly want to go on a flash
of an impact, I'm sorry, there's no way that Joe

(29:34):
Namath is ahead of Eli for me.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Well, and by the way, I think that's a good argument.
I don't necessarily even disagree with that. I'm just I'm
again I'm playing devil's advocate, and that's okay, And I
agree with you. I would put Eli over over name
It myself.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Personally, and I do believe name it belongs in. By
the way, right, I thought of what he did was
so significant. He to me, he breaks the line gets in.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Maybe what some of the voters would tell you is
that they wouldn't have voted Namath in Well, it's kind
of late, Well they made they haven't had that votes
when he was nominated, like, wellate, yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Kind of late. And and and I guess part of
the part of the problem too, I think and and John,
maybe you didn't get this impression from Gary Yo Bob,
And if you didn't, that's okay, took but part of
the problem I think here as well is that when
you when you look at the candidacy of a player,

(30:28):
and I again, I don't want to make this all
about you like is now. It does sound personal, and
it is personal for me, But when you look at
the candidacy of a player, I think there are times
when I wish that the name could be removed from
the discussion, and it's impossible to do. You think, Eli Manning?

(30:49):
Is this like? I think there are enough of people
and let me let me tell you why when I
say this, because you're gonna have a quick reaction to
what I say, but there's gonna be a reason why. Okay,
there are enough of people who are do I use
the word envious of how beloved Peyton and Archie and

(31:13):
Eli are. They're like the first family of the National
Football League. And I think that there are people who
look at that with a little bit of a grimace.
I do believe that, and I also know that there
is from talking to many people on the committee over
the years, there is a sense that great accomplishments that

(31:33):
happened in New York get overhyped and get over value.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
That I agree with. I know that too, that I
agree with Okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I look at how long it took the committee to
vote Wellington mara in. I look at how long it
took them to vote Harry Carson in. The man was
a nine time pro bowler, and they made him wait
to the point where he wrote a letter to the
Hall and said, take me off your ballot because I
can't keep having my friends and family crushed every year
they think I'm going to get in and I can't

(32:04):
get in. I see how long Harry Carson after the fact,
after he was voted into the Hall. After the fact,
when the Hall of Fame did their one hundred Greatest
Players of All time, Harry Carson made it until the
hundred greatest Players of all time. But yet, several years earlier,
the Hall of Fame voters made him wait because he

(32:27):
wasn't on their selection. He was Harry Carson couldn't get
into the Hall of Fame voters vote, He couldn't get
the check mark for years. But then when the Hall
of Fame itself decided to get dignitaries together to vote
for the hundred greatest players ever, he made it easily.
How does that happen? There's got to be a problem there. No,

(32:49):
I agree with that. So and you know, Frank Tockenton
was made to wait too, by the way, with the
time owned like every NFL career passing record that was
imaginable at the time he retired, and they made him wait.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
All right, I want to get to the phone calls here, folks,
two on one nine nine four five one. There I
mentioned already Giants Little Podcast. Go watch that interview I
did with Gary Myers, Bob Blobber Giants dot Com, slash
podcast Giants app or just search for Gihns Huttle on
your favorite podcast platform johnts YouTube channel as well.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
It is up there. All right, guys. By the way,
I appreciate you containing me. That's fine because I was
very personally upset about this. I know you were, and
I think I think and and and folks.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
You know, I think Eli's a hall of fame where
I love Eline Manning. But I had someone had to
try to at least give Paul the arguments to see
if he can try to bat him away a little bit.
So that's that was my job on this particular show. Guys,
I'm asking you very nicely, please be quick. I know
a lot of fans want to get and talk about this.
We all are in agreement, so you're you're preaching to
the choir here if you think you guys should be
in So make your point, ask your question, whichever one

(33:47):
it is, and then we'll move on to the next caller.
Let's lead off with Lucas in New Jersey. He's up first. Hi, Lucas,
you goods.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
How you doing today?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
We're good. Hi.

Speaker 5 (33:58):
I'll be quick about the ELI saying it's a great
discussion for off season, right because there's not much else
to talk about. I think that you guys did a
great coverage on it, So I really won't touch on
those points. I don't want to touch on them at nauseum.
I'll bring in some new points. Sure, it's all about
regular season wait versus playoff wave Yep, you know which one?

(34:23):
Do you give more credit to Terry Bradshaw two touchdowns
over the interceptions, but he won almost literally, he won
two times as many games as he lost. He won
the Super Bowl. He's in. You know, would be putting
if Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrows continue this great statistical
career that they're having, but they never win a Super

(34:43):
Bowl do they get into the hall. Most people would
say yes. I think yes, I agree with that, yes, right,
so you know, then we go to injury. Burrows is
always injured. You know, he's pretty clutch and whatnot. Lamar
can never really make it past even though he has
really good teams. I don't think Eli ever had a
good team like Lamar has had, in my opinion, maybe

(35:06):
maybe a couple of years he did. But I think
the reason why Eli in, you know, not in I
think it has a little bit to do with the
whole manning thing that Paul just mentioned. I love the
way he says three.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
By the way, it's hilarious.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
It makes me laugh. But basically, Eli was so clutched.
Twenty seven fourth quarter comebacks, thirty seven game winning drives,
and he beat the goat twice in the playoffs when
no one expected it. They just don't see it. But
my theory is this, and then I'll let you guys
off the air.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
He wasn't likable.

Speaker 5 (35:40):
He didn't have that classic quarterback present when I watched
the games, and I would see his kind of little
demeanor and his facial expressions. Now I have a face
like him, I can't really control you know the face,
but when I looked at him, I just didn't. I
didn't see it, didn't exdue confidence.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
If you will.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
But he was a great staple and what not. I'll
just leave it at that. Basically, you know what's going
to decide a Hall of Fame quarterback? Who knows, but
we all we all agree to think that he should be.
But I don't think he is a first ballot because
most people don't like his demeanor in the pocket and whatnot,
and they'll use anything against him. But the guy was awesome,

(36:20):
and I'll kind of leave it at that.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Thank you, Lucas, appreciate the call. And I don't want
to get through this show without just mentioning the durability factor,
which we didn't mention at all during this program, but
is also extremely significant, which is something that glob Er did.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
I did ask Bob that specifically, and he said that
is something that he did put out there in the conversation.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Toddy, Connecticut is up next, Hey Todd, what's going on?

Speaker 7 (36:40):
Paulie John? Love your show.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (36:44):
Usually I don't get time to call in, but I've
been listening, and obviously you all agree that ULI should
be first bout Hall of Famer, and I think the
football guys this year with the Hunter anniversary of kind
of put another stamp on this season. One thing I
can add that I think that the writers should put
in in consideration. EU stats don't match up to Breeze, Peyton, Rivers,

(37:07):
all them, but they also have had the opportunity or
luxury of playing in Dome most of their moons, or
in great weather. Eli plays in East Rotherford, where's predominantly
you know, well, Ben.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Played in Pittsburgh and it can get nasty.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Rothlisberger played in Pittsburgh, Aaron Rodgers and far played in
Green Bay, and Tom Brady played in Foxbar. So you
are right about Rivers and you are right about Peyton
and Breeze.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
My only comment, and I guess you kind of expanded
on what I mentioned to John about Giants playing here.
It was always the opinion of football people that because
the Giants are a more blue collar, prounded out kind
of team and that's how they build their teams, that
if you look over the course of history, you know,

(37:50):
the Giants have not usually had very explosive offenses. They
have been more of a defensive oriented franchise Over the
course of history. That's just part of it, you know,
And I'm sorry, but that's just part of it. I
think if Eli Manning was in San Diego and Philip
Rivers was here, the same situation would have happened and
their stats would have been appropriately affected. I believe that.

Speaker 7 (38:14):
Yeah. And if you look at those other guys mentioned,
not to put down you know, Hicks and all the
other receivers, the great receivers that helped us win the
Super Bowls, but those other quarterbacks had had maybe besides
maybe besides Rogers, all those other quarterbacks have had top
talent receivers or or running backs to help them along.
In tight ends for that matter. I mean Eli Manning

(38:35):
made Jig Ballard money, he made who David tight End
who helped them win the Super Bowl, Kevin Kevin Boss.
I mean, those guys left and went on somewhere else. Then,
you know, shortly after he became coaches at high schools
or something like that. So that has to be factored
in also that Eli after you know, if he were
to retire maybe two years sooner, it probably would have

(38:57):
helped his cause because the last couple of years.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
You know, Todd and Todd I think that's a really
good point and appreciate the call, thank you very much.
And Gary made that point where if you go up
to like twenty twelve or something like that, and he
looked at me, alives record. He didn't have the exact nuber
he said, twenty or twenty five games over five hundred.
I don't think it was that good. I think it
was probably closer to fifteen. I have to look at it.
I'll do that math quick in a second. But yeah,

(39:21):
that was a factor where the last five years of
his career I actually probably more than that, right, But
he went into nineteen, so sixty or five and a
half years of his career.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I thought he was just poor. I thought he had
a heck of a season in sixteen.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
No, he did, and that helped. That was eleven and
twelve and four, eleven and five.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Eleven, five eleven five, I mean, and obviously was outstanding.
One of the great games of his career, to be
frank with you, in Green Bay, they dropped, they dropped
three touchdown, but he got no help, and he got
no help at all. They sabotaged him the offense, you know,
So you know that's why I again we've we've talked

(40:03):
for a long time about the complimentary pieces around him
at different times during his career, and it is what
it is.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Let's say he was eleven to five and five, so
that's plus six, ten and six and seven. That's plus ten,
twelve and four. That's plus eighteen plus twenty two, plus
twenty three, so plus twenty four. Okay, So what was
his record, Paul? In the games he started for one
er in two thousand and Kurt was five and four

(40:35):
that year in two thousand and four, and what was Eli? Well,
Eli had the rest of year one. He beat Dallas
just doing quick back in the napkin. Matthew, I believe
he was plus nineteen from two thousand and five from
two thousand and four. Rather they're twenty and twelve.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
And you know what again, John. The other thing about
people who go with this one lost record, we could
debate all we want about how much you should value that,
but even the people who want to put that out there,
don't tell me he was a five hundred quarterback, because
the postseason games count, he was eight and four. If
you're going to stick one lost record on the quarterbacks

(41:15):
forehead and say that is critical. Well, then count all
the games that he played that counted, because the postseason
games are not exhibitions, John, they're not preseason games. They're right,
They're not played in August. They're played in January. They count,
they matter.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
He was eight and four, okay.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
And again, and the guys brought it up and they
did a great job. And you remember when Sam Monson
of PFF was on the combine several years ago, when
I got into it with him and I want to
physically restrain you, and I brought up Dan Fouts as
an argument, and I know Gary Meyers brought up Dan
Fouts as an argument, and Warren Moon as an argument,
and Sonny Jurgensen as an argument, because guess what, those

(41:55):
guys are on the last row of the upper deck,
but they're in the building. Eli should not be in
the last row of the upper deck. He should be
in the building. It on the thirty yard line. All right,
let's go to coach Marvin. Coach. What's up?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Hey, John and Paul how a y'all doing?

Speaker 1 (42:08):
We're good, coach.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I'm not gonna get too much in it. I'm disappointed,
I'm not angry, I'm not disapbouted, I can understand it.
You got to weigh both the positives and the negative
when you're doing these things. And I'm not gonna push
other players down to push him up. So I'm not
going to get into what other players have done. I
believe in that. I always tell people, don't push me
down to push yourself up, So I'm not going to

(42:31):
do that. It was disappointing. I think the one argument
people can add is that when you eli, I think
he deserves to be in. And I know in the
fact that this is a number of games y'all said
he never he didn't make it into the top seven.
He was still in the fifteen.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
He would make it into the top ten.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
He didn't make it to the top ten. So that
tells you alone, it's a numbers game. You're weighing them
against other guys that are in there. So I have
to look at it like it's a numbers game. Only
so many of them can get in. The question then
is who you're taken out and and and and put
him in. So I don't get into those things. He's
going to get in. He is a Hall of Famer,

(43:11):
and we have to look at those years that he played.
He didn't have all pros. They were all jos If.
He lifted up an organization that really didn't have a
lot around him. I mean, you can look at Plasico,
Burrs and Tumor, but they're not the names of some
of these players that the other guys had.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
So now, now I will say this in fairness, he
did have Odell Beckham at the end of his career,
who was maybe the years, and Victor Cruz did put
together one of the better, maybe the best single season
receiving season in Giants history in that one year at eleven,
So that that just.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Feels like a moment in Eli's career. With the Odell,
they didn't have much more around those two. Even on
the defensive side of the ball, they didn't have much
four times, even in their championship years, they had a
good core team that played well together. You had straight
hand who was the guy, but the other guys were

(44:12):
pretty much Joe's and they played good football as a team.
So they didn't have these guys that were you know,
you throw they name up like Lawrence Taylor, and you
right away you know what that is and who that is.
So I think that that's pretty much what's happening. But
he's going to get in. There's no doubt he's going
to get in. But real quick, Yeah, I was talking

(44:35):
about the quarterbacks about a week ago or earlier this
week it was, and I r real quick. Through the
last thirty five years of Super Bowls. How many first
round picks played in the Super Bowl And total of
them were fourteen, but there was like one, two, three,
four or five six seven of them played in multiple

(44:56):
Super Bowls. And then then the second round there was
only four second rounders that made it. In the third
rounders there were only four that made it. Six rounders,
there were only four that made it. And Tom Brady

(45:18):
was the main one. He had he would appear ten times.
Round seven there was only one. And undrafted there was
two and Kurt Warner was one of those that he
was in three super Bowls. So really the first rounders
dominated the Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Good stuff. Yeah, And Coach, we're gonna have that first.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
We're gonna have that quarterback round draft conversation the week
before the combine in about ten or eleven days. So
Pau and I love that conversation. We both have our notes,
and that'll be a fun conversation to have that talk
about our two different points of view on that particular subject.
Let's go to Manny out in California. Manny, what's going on?
Oh Hi John, Hey, Manny, what's up?

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Well? I really didn't want to talk about the ELI thing,
but you know, the the greatest upset in super Bowl
history and the greatest play in Super Bowl history, including
the escape, which ELI was never anybody you'd consider mobile
How that doesn't carry some weight over some of the

(46:20):
other things. And availability is another one that seems to
apparently have been overlooked. But you know, I tried to
get in earlier this week with Paul at the super
Bowl thing, and a kudos to you. I happened to
be a very close friend of Tom Cannevan. His wife

(46:44):
and my wife where went to nursing school together, and
she actually set him up with her.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
That's funny. Tom, by the way, was the Associated Press,
long time Associated Press writer here in New Jersey sports
writer who just retired. Yeah, we have on the Johnsontle podcast.
Actually yeah, so for those of you who just don't
know who that is.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Podcast, but really warmed my heart. Uh, he gave me
the greatest gift in sports. John Marra gave the sports
writers tickets to the to the Super the greatest Super
Bowl of all the great upset, and I got he
obviously was going, but he he gave me the extra ticket,

(47:29):
so I got to sit there with some of the
families of the team and h and witnessed that game.
That's all. I can't believe nobody mentioned Kevin Boss's fifty
yard reception.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Is no one brought that up on that show.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
What's that?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I can't believe no one brought up the Kevin Boss
catch at the start.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Of the second brought it up, and so I to
bring that up.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Wow, good, good, good call. I mean, there are all
many plays things that you could talk about that that's
the problem. There were so many that we left out.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
I mean, you have to that almost that that that
that really got the offense the second half.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
That play, I don't yeah for a.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Guy who never got that much recognition, that was that
was one great, great play. We didn't get so many
chunk plays, no.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Thank you, well, that was the only chunk they real quick.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
If I could on this on the quarterback thing, I
went back, uh following up on on the prior color
my dear friend, I went back over your list of
the number three pick in the draft over the last
thirty years, and there have been ten ten quarterbacks were chosen.

(48:46):
How many of them would you consider? What do you
think are actually franchise quarterbacks? I have to exclude h
Darnold was a number three in Drake May because there
jury is still out on those. But of the other eight,
so out of ten, there are only two quarterbacks and
no Super Bowl winners. McNair is is the one, one

(49:13):
really good one, and all of the others are like
Achille Smith, Heats Shuler. I mean, the list goes on
and on of total busts.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, I mean I would say it's hard, man Ney
to really focus in on one particular selection because you're
gonna get a lot of noise there. Like you can
look at the fourth pick and there might be some
really good players at four. It's hard to really narrow
and on one particular pick if you gotta take like
kind of the rain. So what and this will be
a preview and many appreciate the call. Good stuff, man,
Thank you very much. What I did I have like
one through five first, overall, one through ten, eleven through

(49:47):
thirty two and then the first round overall.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
So that's how I kind of broke it.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Down when I did it, because you know, when you
only focus on one pick pall, you're gonna get a
lot of noise there because it's just well, there's a
lot more randomness into the equation there.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think that is also when I did the research
last year. That is exactly what I did. Yeah, so
we'll be on the same page.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Then, all right, let's go to Charlie and pauland Maine,
in which case I think for once Charlie and Paul
going to be on the same page here, Hi Charlie.

Speaker 6 (50:10):
Hey guys, Hey, yeah, I think Eli should have been
first ballast, no doubt, and his some of the reasons One,
you guys talked about a little bit about weather, you know,
being playing in New Jersey with that turf, with the weather,
compared to Drew Brees playing in a dome, the stats
would have been totally different for Eli. And the other

(50:32):
thing is Gilbride's system was high reward and high you know,
high probabilities of problems because his system was throw the
ball downfield and it wasn't just dinking dunking, right, and
that should be considered for one thing, for that because
you know, the receivers and Eli had to be on

(50:54):
the same page. Because those receivers could go left, they
could go right, they could go posts, they could go here,
they could go there. And it was Ky reward and
that system is totally different than some other quarterbacks. They
should have taken that consideration. And another thing they should
have taken consideration. It was four or five years in
the row New York Giants wide receivers dropped the ball

(51:15):
most in the NFL. They I mean every year it
seemed like we let the league and drop ball. And
you have to consider that too. For Eli, right, that
wasn't his fault.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Right, So not to mention Charlie, as we all know,
at the end of his career's offensive line was terrible.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, even more important.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
You put all those things together and then you put
in what he you know, the longevity for one, but
also the ice in his veins. I mean, if I
had to pick one quarterback to win the game for
me in a Super Bowl, it wouldn't be Tom Brady
and it wouldn't be Montana. It would be Eli Manning.

(51:55):
And I'll end it with that. Thanks guys, Nanks.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Charlie, he was rather pleasant on that phone. Charlie loves
e ly. No, thanks, Charlie, that was nice.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Let's go to Jonathan and Westchester.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
He's up next. Hey Jonathan, Hey, how are you guys?

Speaker 8 (52:14):
So one thing I don't like about the NFL Hall
of Fame selection process My understanding is that unlike Cooperstown,
where they can consider anything, the NFL Hall of Fame,
the committee is told expressly only to consider.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
What happened on the field.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Right.

Speaker 8 (52:32):
So Eli's case, you know, the fact that he was
the NFL Man of the Year and he goes out
and volunteers and helps kids with cancer, none, none of
that factors in. And the reason why it bothers me is,
you know, he it's a bit inconsistent on the NFL's
part because I was watching the NFL Honors last night,

(52:53):
and so much focus is on the Walter Payton Man
of the Year award, as it should be, and that
player gets a patch and the finalists get stickers on
their helmets and you know they wear those on the field.
So it just seems a bit inconsistent. On the one hand,
you know, such a focus on it, and on the

(53:14):
other hand, not allowed the committee.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
To factor it in.

Speaker 8 (53:18):
So I wanted to get your thoughts on that now.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Thank you, Jonathan, appreciate the call.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Remember, the NFL does not run the Hall of Fame,
So I think that's part of a two Paul, it's
separate rules. It's remember it's not the NFL Hall of Fame, correct,
the Pro Football Hall of Fame that is correct.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
So different rules.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Like do I think that stuff should be taking consideration?
I think you could make the argument like when Ben
Roethlisberger comes up, is the stuff from his early career
issues off the field? Is that going to be a factor? Like,
I don't don't. I don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
I never thought that the the off the field stuff. Now,
stuff that's on the field that's pertinent, you know, the
type of the professionalism that you conduct your self with
and the respect for the game and how you conduct
yourself as you represent the game in terms of football. Yes,

(54:08):
away from the game, that's a little different. I mean,
Vinnie de Troni had to make the case for Lawrence
Taylor when he came up.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Well, well, I mean there was some off the field
stuff with LT that was really there.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Was some stuff that wasn't too good. Yeah, it was
a little stuff. And Lawrence Taylor was not a first
ballot unanimous selection. He did not get a unanimous.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Vote, but he was first ballot though.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
He was first ballot, And there were a handful of folks.
In fact, the gentleman that I talked to you about
earlier when I read that excerpt, he was one of
the guys. I'm not dropping an there. I'm proud of here.
It's I don't need the man to, you know, be
vilified by the fans. That's not necessary, you know. But
but he look, he publicly has said what he said,
and he's got to live with that. But in any event,

(54:51):
Lawrence Taylor, how do you argue against LT? Well, the
case made against LT was about all of his off
the field behavior and how much of that may have
bled into his career.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
So did that make him less of a player because
of the author field stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Well you have to ask those I think it was
four people who did not vote for him. I'm sorry,
you know, Vinnie. Vinnie went right into that meeting knowing
he with Vinnie de Trony. The Bergen record thirty four
years covered the team been a four or five time
Hall of Fame Media finalist, The man. The man taught
me how to cover a beat. He's like, so it's
his fault, he's my mentor. And indeed, but and he

(55:31):
went in knowing that he was going to have to
be loaded for bear because there were going to be
people who were going to detract from LT and and
his suspension. Remember he did get suspended the one year
he got suspended because of the drug situation. That's not
that's not unknown, that's that's real. And so he knew

(55:52):
that there were going to be some people in that
room that were going to fight against him, and and
Vinnie was able to hammer it home, and LT thanked
him for what he got in.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
All right, we got one more call and then we're
gonna do a little Super Bowl thing. Quick to see
you because that games it's kind of a important game.
It's coming up on today, So we'll talk about that
for a second. William and Brooklyn will wrap us up today.

Speaker 8 (56:09):
Hey William, Yes, good, good afternoon.

Speaker 7 (56:13):
I like to talk about what the Jihant should do
with as far as a quarterback situation.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
All right, be quick, William, We're running out of time here.

Speaker 8 (56:21):
Okay, I did I didn't.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I didn't say hang up, William.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
I was happy to taking I just didn't want you
to go like eight minutes.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
That was quick, William. I didn't tell you to hang up.
He made some good points, so it was very quick.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
I wasn't mean, and like telling I was. I said
that the right way.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
If we if pierced, if we played this back on
New Yarchive and slow it down. He actually did make
his points, but we just couldn't hear it.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
William, call back another time. Heck, if you want to
call back now, like, I'll get you on for two minutes.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Like, I don't.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Wow, I wasn't trying to do that. I feel I
feel terrible.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I feel bad. I wasn't trying to do that. You
should shut it.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Oh wow, he's a that's a fellow Brooklyn guy, William.
Come on, all right, call back another time and we
got more time on the show, and we'll let you
go as long as you want with your point. Though
I'm off next week, so you probably met at me,
So call back with Paul and Patter on next week
and I'm not here. But I was not trying to
tell you to hang up, dude.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
I apologize. I was not.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
I was not trying to do that. I wouldn't I
wouldn't win the call. I Woult told Pierce, that's sound,
that we can take it exactly.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
We tried to sneak in.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Well, please please call back another time, and we'd love
to hear your point on on on.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
The quarterback situation.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, all right, So what do things that happened in
the game on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Well, I'm going to go a bit out of the
box here. I think that Spags may very well take
a page out of Belichick's playbook from Super Bowl twenty
five when they played the Giants beat the Bills. I
think that Spags is going to allow Saquon Barkley to
run for one hundred and thirty yards like the Giants
allowed throm And Thomas to run for one hundred and

(57:57):
twenty yards. It's a reverse strategy move. I don't think
Spags believes that Hurts can beat them. I don't. So
here's here's what you do.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Yeah, so then you make Hurts beat you, you know,
let Saquan beat you.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Here here's what I
think he may do. This is not at a box thought,
but Spags is smart enough to do this. You let
Barkley run the ball twenty five times for one hundred
and thirty yards, let them go up and down between
the twenties. But you pull your finest packages, your blitz packages,
your finest defensive confusion in the red zone. Because what

(58:38):
you want is to shorten the game. You want to
have Philly have as few chances at a big play
as possible. Let Barkley run for four, five six yards
of chunk. Just don't give him a fifty yard run. Yeah,
but it's hard.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Once he gets going and he has four and that
he has an open and once he gets going, Paul,
that's the thing. You gotta make him change direction in
the back field.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
That's why you can. No, No, you don't run blitz him.
We know this. When you run blitz against Barkley and
he creases you, he's no. You have to build a
wall at the line of scrimmage. I would even I
would even say have him stuck. Anyway, Well, here's my
general philosophy. I'll go with the Belichick philosophy against the Bills.
Let them get let them chew up ground yardage between

(59:22):
the twenties with their running game, but make sure he
doesn't get the big long play, and make sure that
Hurts doesn't hit any of those big long plays to
Smith or to Brown, and that Hurts is able to
beat you with a big one over the top, because
I think that Spags knows that Mahomes on the other
side of the ball can basically score whenever he desperately

(59:45):
needs to. He can make the key clutch play whenever
he desperately needs to. So keep the game under control,
as close as you can, as close to the best
as you can, and basically just tell Mahomes go ahead
on the other side of the ball, you go win
the game. I like the Chiefs to win the game,
and I think it's gonna be close, and they come
down to the lest let me square two minutes, uh

(01:00:08):
twenty six, twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
I've been going twenty four to twenty that that's been
my score. I also think I also think the Chiefs
are gonna win. But I'm going to opposite you. I think,
and Good Morning Football had this great stat or in
the week. I think since twenty twenty one, it was
it might have been twenty twenty. The Chiefs have not
allowed one hundred yard rusher.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
In the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
See, Spagnol is not gonna let Saquon Barkley beat him
in the skin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
He's not.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
No, he is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
I'm with you. I do not think that he believes.
I think he thinks if you put the ball in
Jalen Hurts the sand, that's advantage.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Not to say Jalen Hurts is a bad player.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
He's not. He's a good football player.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I agree with that too, But you want to make
him be a passer of the football. And Jalen Hurts
he's better this year than he was in previous years.
He still struggles a little bit against the blitz, and
I think no one's better at sending creative blitzer in
the Seaspagnolo. So I think he does everything he can
to slow down on Barkley. He might get his ninety
five maybe one hundred yards going to take them twenty

(01:01:03):
five carries to get there, which is fine. You want to,
to your point, Paul, prevent those explosive plays. I think
you do what you can to prevent the explosive ones
to aj Brown and Devonte Smith. But I think you
make Jalen Hurts beat you. And I think if the
Eagles win this game, it will be Jalen Hurts that's
the MVP, or AJ Brown or DeVante Smith, one of

(01:01:24):
those three. I do not think Steve Spagnol will let
Saquon go for a buck fifty and the Eagles win
the game.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Well, I don't take the bug fifty, but I think
Barkley can run for one thirty and the Chiefs can win.
And I think Spags knows that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
I think it's very difficult for that to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Okay, that's what Belichick did with Dermo Thomas Therman. Thomas
ran for well over one hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Yards, you know, but that's because the Bills pass offense
was better than the rush offense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, but see this is the opposite in the past.
But I but I think what will happen is Barkley
will be able to help them control it between the twenties.
But in the red zone. In the red zone, that's
where he's going to screw up hearts. That's where I
think SPACs can turn it up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
And I just think the Eagles defense, I think is
legitimately a very good unit. So I don't think the
Chiefs are going to have an easy time scoring in
this game. But I think Patrick Mahomes makes enough of
those big plays on third downs, whether it's a scramble
throw it at Kelsey, you know, maybe Hollywood Brown or
the the rookie out of Texas Xavier Worthy will get
a big pass over the top. In this game, you'll

(01:02:24):
get a couple of those plays, enough of them where
they'll make some big plays in a big spot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Hopkins, DeAndre Hopkins, pecially in the red zone.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I think this is a good Kelsey game and Hopkins
games attacking the middle of the field against the Eagles
defense that likes to play a lot of his own.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Absolutely, I could.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
See them trying to run the ball on a you know,
on their on their two safety deep shell covers that
that they like them rom with Philadelphia, I think just
Patrick Mahomes does what he does, Steve Spagnolo does what
he does, and I think those guys success in high
leverage situations on third down. And Andy Reid's play calling
in the red zone is always very good. I think

(01:03:00):
that's what ends up making the difference. It's gonna be
little details, little things. I think the Eagles honestly are
the more talented team top to bottom, one to fifty three.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
I believe you're correct, but I think I like the
matchup Mahomes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
It's not even to me like the player on player matchup.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
It's just Homes is special coaching.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Spags and Andy Reid are awesome, yes, and Fangio is great.
Kellamore is a good coach, But I don't they are
on Spags and Andy Reid and they're not Patrick sn
not Andy Reid either. So I think the Chiefs do
just enough to win a one score game. I think
it's Eagles might have had to lead in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
It's funny. Our scores aren't that much different.

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
They're not.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
I just think the way we just we we got
to that, we got to them a little different. That's good.
In some ways we were actually quite similar. So go home,
maybe having an adult beverage. I feel I feel better now,
do you? Yeah? I do. I do because we got
a chance to verbalize some of this stuff and I
was able to, uh, you know, kind of soften some

(01:03:59):
of the edges and thank you callers. Your callers were
good today, you know, no calls were great. Callers were
willing to fall and we were able to discuss this
and you know, I uh, I think we can move on.
But I will say this, just remember, folks, next year
when the class of twenty six comes up, Drew Brees
is in that class, Philip Rivers is in that class.

(01:04:21):
He's back, Tory Holtz back the following year. Uh Ben Roethlisberger.
I know it's gonna be in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
And we didn't even mentioned the new rules, folks, because
now instead of getting down to five and then you
can vote, it's sounds to seven and you can only
vote for five of those guys. And the fact that
Mike Holmgan didn't get him, by the way, also makes
a tough front.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Tom Coughlin very different.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
He might have to wait longer. And the way they
talked about it, it sounds like it's home grind then Shanahan,
then Tom, which is disappointing. I'm really shocked at Homeroom
didn't get in because he should be. I am he
should be a home run get in.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
I think too. I don't know. Three of those coaches
are automatic for me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Totally agree with you, and I don't like the fact
that only one coach can go in every year. But anyway,
that's that's another conversation is for another day. For Paul Patino,
I'm John sh Milk. We'll talk to you next time.
Maybe that could be an episode next week that the
coaching part of the Hall of Fame voting. That could
be something you and Ma can.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Do next week. Absolutely good with that, and I'm off
next week.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
I'm gonna try to make sure they don't destroy my
house as they redo my basement. That'll be fun and
not use all my money. Uh for Paul Ta Tino.
I'm Josh Milk.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Have a great week. Everybody enjoyed the Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Go Chiefs. Sorry we squon. We love you, but we
can't roof the ghost bags. Go Chiefs and we'll talk
to you on Monday.