Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/28 | Giants Draft Review - Big Blue Kickoff Live | New York Giants

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
But it's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
On giants dot com. You know what I saw New
York Giant Track and the Giants Mobile down. We're part
of the Giants podcast network that's going Hello everybody, Happy Monday.
Welcome the Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the

(00:30):
official luxury vehicle The Giants from the Hack and Sack
and Merging Hell podcast studio keep getting better. He is
Lance Meadow. Hello, Lance, how are you doing? I am
John Schmuck. I'm doing great. Uh, the NFL Draft is
in the books. We actually know what the Giants realize that.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, the the twenty four to seven coverage has come
to an end and now the relief. Always accurate and
prescient draft grades are abound on the Internet, which you
should take very seriously. If your team got a bad
graft draft grade, you should just give up and change franchises,
because obviously, judging a draft class before they even step

(01:07):
foot in the facility for the team that they've been
drafted for is the best way to determine who has
a good and bad draft.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Most accurate assessment I've seen. I think the proof is
in the putting this overwhelming data to support your right.
They're always right there without it down, no question. Yeah,
So the New York Giants, their draft classes in the books.
I've been on a bunch of different podcasts talking about
this already. You can hear go back, look at our
reaction shows from Thursday night, from Friday, from Saturday, we

(01:34):
have our fan show that's up on the Media Pass
podcast read right here. So that's on Media Pass from
Saturday morning Sunday morning. Then Draft season the NFC review.
If that's not up yet, it will be shortly. So
you've heard from me a ton you know my thoughts.
I'm pretty excited. But we haven't heard from Lance at
all about what the Giants did. So I'm gonna I'm
probably gonna regret this in about two minutes, but I'm

(01:55):
gonna pass the floor over the Lance and kind of
go and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Gonna let you cook here. Give you your take on with
the Giants in the draft.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind
is conversations that we had on this program where we
targeted specific positions, and then you look at what the
Giants came out of the draft with you're talking about
a defensive tackle, which I want to focus on here
because that was one of the things we discussed actually
on a week ago this Monday. Yeah, we did a
show where we had mentioned, you know, that was a

(02:24):
position you'd want the Giants to come away with, and
specifically a guy that I wanted to see had some
upside in terms of getting after the quarterback. Now, I
know Darius Alexander's sacks are not necessarily jumping off the page,
but I think he's late. He has the skill set
to do it correct makes him in intriguing prospects. So
that was one thing that caught my eye. And the
funny thing las by.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
The way, real quick, but before you jump off the
defensive tackle, hearing Joe Shan at the press conference and
we have a great twenty minute long interviewer Joshen on
the YouTube channel. You guys should really go check that out.
It's fantastic. Paw and I talked to him and he
was very generous with his time. On Saturday after the draft.
We were all a little delirious, but we got to
throw it and he gave us a good information. But
in talking to him then and hearing me at the

(03:05):
press conference, defensive tackle was not as big of a
I think need for him in the front office as
we maybe thought it was before the draft started. He
basically said, yeah, I mean, I wasn't targeting a defensive
tackle there, but he was just so high on a
board we had to take him. So I thought, I
think maybe they were more comfortable with the veterans they
brought in in free agency then maybe we were from

(03:27):
the outside. So just something for fans to chew on
as they look at that defensive tackle.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Well. He also during the presser, I believe after Alexander
was drafted, he brought up Robertson, Harris and Ledbetter who
they brought in. I think they specifically that's talked about
those guys in conjunction with Dexter Lawrence. So yeah, from
a volume standpoint, if he didn't think it was a
huge necessity, I get that, but I think there was
room for a young guy. But the other thing we

(03:54):
pointed out was there was room for somebody that maybe
is a little bit more interchangeable, yep, within the desive line.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
And he made a point, Look, it's a pass rusher
to your point, and the pass rushers go high. If
you can rush the passer for the defensive tackle spot,
those guys are gonna get elevated in the draft. So
they get him in the third round is good value. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
And the other thing that he brought up in that
press conference that I'm hitting on, which was right after
they selected Darius Alexander, is one of my favorite terms.
Depth came up a lot, and I did not consult
with Joe. He went out on his own tangent and
talked about the one thing they learned from last season
was the fact that when Dex went down John, they
didn't feel as if they had enough meat and potatoes

(04:32):
on the roster. So I think that was a big
target this offseason. Halfway they targeted that and addressed that
through free agency. But I think adding Alexander now gives
you somebody that you could develop and somebody that once
again that position was of note to me because I
wanted to see whether or not, if God forbid, somebody

(04:54):
goes down in that group, does the level of production
fall off drastically. And I still think that's a question
mark with respect to this roster. So Alexander comes in
and you're talking about He's a freaky athlete, is the
best way to describe him. Well, if he proved in
the Senior Bowl, and four of the seven picks were
from the Senior Bowl, which also has been a trend

(05:15):
for the Giants if you look back over several years.
They like to be able to get upfront and personal
with a lot of these prospects before they commit to them.
But getting back to my point is, I think he
had the most to gain from the Senior Bowl by
being exposed to talent from other prominent schools, and that

(05:36):
showed a lot, not just to the Giants, but I
would argue to the rest of the NFL.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
And Josh mentioned that to us an interview with.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Him exactly, so you take that into consideration. I'm focusing
in on him specifically because it's easy for us to
talk about Abdul Carter and Jackson Dart who were the
first round picks. But if the Giants want to make inroads,
you have to get great return on the players you
take from day two on.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's what I'm focusing on.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Then, the one that I think excites me the most
is Cam' Skataboo because another conversation that we had a
week ago. Was you asked me specifically if they target
a running back, John, if you recall, what do you want?
You want the bigger back for the short yarded situations,
the complimentary stuff, or do you want somebody similar to
Tyrone Tracy? I said, I want the complimentary, bigger back

(06:23):
that helps you on the goal line.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Short yarded situations.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Well, Scattaboo's gonna help with that, but he's gonna give
you even more because of his ability to.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Catch the ball.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
He could do everything.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, he's a jack of all trades.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
If you wanted to bring him in and have him
be your every down back, yeah he could do that
for out of doubt.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, But I think if you still want Tyrone Tracy
to piggyback off of what he did last season, which
I don't see why the Giants wouldn't, Skataboo can at
least come in initially and be that bigger back that
gives defensive lines something else to think about, because he
packs a pretty big punch based on what he did

(06:59):
at Arizona State. I mean, to me, the best example
on the resume to show the intensity of Scataboo is
he was named Peach Bowl offensive MVP and the team
didn't even win the game. Now, I'm gonna get a
little historical and archival with our viewers and listeners.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Are you going Jerry West here?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
That's what turn right out of my let's say and hockey.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
I think maybe there is Jean Sebastian Jaguar, one of
my favorite hockey players. When the Ducks played the Devils
in the Stanley Cup Final, we have to look up
what year.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
I'm pretty sure Jean Sebastian Jaguar won the MVP of
that series.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Could be missing the French Canadian there, man, Well, I.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Mean, listen, you can't go wrong with a French Canadian
when it comes to hockey. So I think I'm in
safe territory. But yes, Jerry West was going to be
the first example that I was going to go over
into hockey terrain. We're an equal opportunist program here on
this show. In case you have just tuned in and
have not realized that rich history of Big Blue Kicker, Yes.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
I would have joked and asked you if if Jordan
ever won an MVP in a losing series, But then
you would reply Jordan never lost a series, and I
didn't want to give you a chance to do that.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
I mean, that's a fast fall at least make it
somewhat challenging for that.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
That's why no, no, well, that's good.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
Your thoughts in your head prevailed. I'm anticipating hesitation. Yes, well,
you've been around me long enough to know sadly, yes,
what those easy swings of the bat are going to
be like. But getting back to Scataboo, as we went
off of seventeen cliffs in the process. I'm not a
big comparison guy, John, but and I'm curious if you

(08:36):
felt the same way.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
I look at the.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Giant's history of the pairings they've had with running backs,
and what Tracy and Scataboo can provide to me has
the potential of what Bradshaw and Jacobs brought to the
table in terms of that one two punch. Remember Jacobs
was an underrated receiver.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
I think it's also a little Joe Moore's OJ Anderson
okay you want to go didn't play as much any right, Yeah,
he was a bigger factor in ninety But I think
Morrison OJ could both be full time backs, right and
could do a little bit of everything. But they're very different. Sure,
I think you know Scatable is probably more of a

(09:16):
receiver than Brandon was.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, Brandon had eighty two receptions. I look back in
his career, but there were some seasons where I remember
against the Cowboys he had that big catch and run
down the sideline.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I don't disagree with with with your evaluation. I'm with
you on that, but I think both work because I
think both guys, while they come to each other, can
also do everything. And that's what it makes it like.
They're really interchangeable in a lot of ways. Like you
start a series, but you can put out of the
guy out there. You're fine, Yeah, you're fine.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
But Brad Shawn Jacobs were both highly us. They had
Derek Ward, So you're right about found a way to
get three guys involved. That massive performance against the Carolina
Panthers late in that two thousand and eight season, I
think is the perfect example. So you know, that was
what I was thinking about. With respect to Skataboo, Marcus
bo Joe Shay talked about this was a good value pick.

(10:04):
He even mentioned he received calls from other front office
personnel saying that they thought the Giants maximize the value.
Guard was a big topic for us, and that was
a position that I even pinpointed. So you look at
the fact that he could play both positions. Two of
his three seasons in which it was a main starter
was at guard, and I like that because right now

(10:26):
you look at the roster, clearly there's room to play
him at both positions, and they should. You should definitely
train him to be ready to go. Right tackle was
his last season, but the two years prior was right guard,
one of which was of course shortened by a leg injury.
That was twenty twenty three. He only played six but
he's got two years where he was primarily a right guard,
and I think there's more room for an impactful guard

(10:49):
immediately and a year from now, more so than potentially
at the tackle position. So I like the fact that
he could be somebody that could be moved around. He
even mentioned in the conversation with the media that he's
been taking snaps at center.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, and he didn't prepare himself, and he did.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
A little bit of the Senior Bowl too when he
was there. Yeah, he's got such good feet. And the
guard stuff excites me too. I'm with you, but we'll
get to me excited is the Giants think he can
play tackle, and look, he has the feet to play tackle.
I've said that since the get go. He's just got
the thirty three inch arms at the Senior Bowl. He
was at thirty two and a half at the Combine,
but they basically somehow chopped off a half inch of

(11:26):
everyone's fingers at the Combine when they measured there. So
Joe Shane thinks he can play tackle with his arm
linked in as athleticism. I think he used to work
on his strengths, of his hand placement stuff. But look,
Jermain Illuminos on the last year of his contract.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
You can always use good young guys that can play tackle.
So you're looking at a five position, versatile player that'll
be a great backup this year. You hope to develop
some of that strength, develop some of the hand placement,
the fundamentals to use that great athletic athleticism. He has
to eventually become a starter at one of those spots.
And if it could be tack, if it can be
off of tackle, that's fantastic. He reminds me of Zach

(12:04):
Tom a little bit, who went to the Packers four
or five years ago, who was a tackle in college,
and everyone's like, yeah, we don't think he'll played tackle
on the pros. He get the movement inside maybe center,
and then he just shows up and greeted like no,
he's he's tackle and he's done a nice job for them.
I think he plays right tackle for them, right, Zach Tom.
I believe he's on the west side, So I think
that's the player he reminds me of. And if he

(12:26):
can have the type of careers that Zach Thomas had
for the Packers, that is a huge I think they
almost drafted in the same round. I think Zach Tom
was probably a fifth round pick. He was a fourth
round so close enough. Ye, right in that same area
of the draft, right. So I see those two guys
as being very similar. Not the biggest, but really good
athletically and good feet. And look, Marcus Bowl is a
lot of talent, So I love that pick. I had

(12:48):
him as a third rounder. We talked about him when
we got to the mock draft at thirty four. At
some point, I think you brought up Marcus Bow to
me at that pick, so I thought that was a
really really nice pick. The same movie we talk about
Alexander I pick thirty four too. When we did our
two guys we were talking about at thirty four, I
always thought it was more of a third rounder. But
again him at the top of the fifth, or actually
it was more like the middle of the fifth. That's

(13:09):
really really good value.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
And also, by the way, speaking of players who were
bringing up in that mock draft, Donovan Jackson wounds up
going in the first round.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
And so did Tyler Booker, and so did Tyler Williams.
Those are the three guys that we are considering. And
I was we actually had this. We did this with
Sidetak on Friday, and I said to him, well, Matt,
let's do this over again. Let's say the Giants don't
trade up for a quarterback and they just sat at
thirty four. Who would you have picked at that spot
if you had that pick at thirty four. And he

(13:37):
actually said, look, it might be Darius Alexander. The Giants
didn't up picking him later that night, which was funny.
And I said to him, honestly, and I said, at
the time when we did the mock, I would have
had a debate with myself as to whether or not
I want to use the thirty fourth pick on a quarterback.
Given all the guys that were gone at the positions
we talked about that were important, I would have just

(13:58):
picked the quarterback at thirty four. So I think that
would have been a fairly easy decision for me because
Tyleek was gone, Donova Jackson was gone, Tyler book What
was gone, Josh Connelly was gone, all those guys we
had talked about. A thirty four I would have been
more than okay picking a quarterback there. Now, like we
talked about, the Giants decided that they didn't want to
risk not trading up to go get him when they
could have ended the first round, and the price that

(14:20):
ended up being too high, ended up being just a
pick at the end of the third round and then
a third round pick next year. So yeah, they got
that a good value. They got their player, and I
think it in retrospect, given what would have been there
at thirty four, I think quarterback in the second round
was actually with the second round pick, which they're using
the trade to move up to get darn obviously ended
up being the right thing to do. Well.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Last week, again, when you had asked me, you know,
Milroe came up in the conversation about who potentially they
could target in the second round, but they obviously didn't
need to do that, and they kept sixty five, which
Joe Shane said was important. In that trade, they gave
up the compensatory pick, which was ninety nine, so that
was almost more.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like a fourth round there. So it's at the very
end of round three.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
And listen, we talk about this on this show multiple times.
If there is conviction and that is the guy you like,
then without hesitation, you go after him. You know, there's
a lot of speculation about, well, what if the Giants
didn't make the trade John, could they have gone in
Jackson Dart if they just stayed true, No. Four, Nobody knows, nobody.

(15:19):
It's no different than and I don't want to revisit history.
But another popular conversation that came up with the Giants
drafted Daniel Jones, right, it was constant, well, what if
they would have waited till later in the round. You
don't know, nobody has a crystal ball. We don't know
what other teams would have done. We don't know if
another team would have moved in front. So again, the
key operating term is conviction.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Which, by the way, they ended up waiting until I
was picked sixteen right that year to pick Daniel Jones,
they wouldn't have their text of lawns here.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, of course, Well that's a trade off what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, right, which is funny. Now they might have Josh
Allen here, the defensive f Jacksonville was also a really
good player. But it's just funny how this stuff works
when you think about it.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yeah, and that's the guests game that you could play
for years to come. But the bottom line is there's
never going to be any fact behind what the situation is,
So there's no point of really wasting time and energy
over things that there really will not be a conclusion to.
So since you opened the door, I want to go
back to the first round before we wrap up the

(16:20):
draft class, and Abdul Carter was somebody that we projected
at number three.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
It was not a surprise.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's amazing how much he's almost an afterthought pretty much.
It was a third overall pick, and everyone wants to
talk about who they picked with the second first draft pick.
It's just very funny.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Well, because I think it was predicted by a lot,
and the first three picks pretty much went in order
as many different indicated different team, but Jacksonville coming up.
But I found it interesting by the way Joe Shane
indicated that they knew that Jacksonville and Cleveland were talking
and they were anticipating that trade was gonna Spen was
done not just talking well, but he mentioned he wasn't

(16:54):
sure though, what Jacksonville was going to do in that spot.
He knew that they were going to switch places, but
could Jacksonville moved up to grab up Dull Carter let's say,
instead of Travis Hunter. Anything's possible as far as that deal.
Not that the Giants are losing sleep over it. I mean,
we've had a lot of conversations about Travis Hunter. I
just feel when you move up and you don't take
a quarterback. John, just a quick side note, it's going

(17:16):
to be that much more important for Travis Hunter to
contribute on both sides of the ball to justify that trade.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Steep price, steep price. I guess my question for you,
and this is what the Jacksonville Jaguars I'm sure asked
themselves in that room. Would you rather have Ashton Genty
your second round pick this year and your first round
pick next year, or would you rather have Travis Hunter
because that because that was the trade. Yeah, would they

(17:42):
rather have Ashton Genty pick thirty thirty eight?

Speaker 3 (17:48):
You got to look back in terms of what they
gave up.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
No, I think it was thirty six thirty six. Okay,
Ashton Genty and their first round pick next year, or
they rather have Travis Hunter. They took Travis Hunter. Yeah,
that tell you how steep of a price that was.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Without a doubt.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Now on the surface, right now, I would take option B,
which as gent and my first round the next year
me too, as it stands right now, without seeing anything
that Hunter has done in the NFL, I would go
with that option. And the reason being is I am
extremely skeptical. I like Travis Hunter the player. I'm skeptical
though that he is going to be on the field

(18:24):
on both sides of the ball as much as quickly
in his NFL career by the time that that rookie
contract expires to say, wow, you really got an overwhelming
bang for your buck. And that's why I would take
Genty and the first round pick the final year, finish
upout Carter and Dark.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
So Carter, once again, we know he's going to add
a tremendous amount of punch and depth to this rotational
group of defensive linemen. The fact that he played linebacker
as well as defensive end he wanted to do that,
I think gives them a great deal of versatility upfront,
which is what you want to have because when you
look at your division, and Joe Shane has talked about this,

(19:03):
but we've had conversations about this. You don't pick players
just to win NFC East games, because the extended schedule
shows that you're only playing six games in the division
versus eleven outside thirty five percent of your schedule. So
I don't get too caught up in that butt. I
look at the divisional foes as models, and the Eagles
and the Cowboys have been very good at building that

(19:24):
depth up front, even what Washington had been doing till
they parted ways with a lot of those former first
round picks. So if you want to stay competitive, you
need to show that you have options up front. Carter
helps them with respect to that, and I do think
Shane Bowen made toy with him at the linebacker position
a lot. I know maybe you were not necessarily sold

(19:45):
on that, John, but I wouldn't dismiss that because of
what he showed in college.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
As far as Dart is concerned.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Well, I think you'll definitely see him at that spot
on passing situations when they want to get all the
guys on the field. I think that's when you're going
to see him an insideline.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Mostly, and I think that's going to give opposing quarterbacks
and offenses something to think about it.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
And I guess suppose if you want to try to
try that on early downs to get guys on the field,
that's true, but I don't think you want to give
too much to Carter that early, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
But anyway, yeah, because defenses are much more complicated than
what is thrown his way in terms of Penn State.
As far as the quarterback, we had conversations about if
you're going to take the quarterback later on in the draft,
the chances of him becoming your guy are slim. Well,
they took a quarterback with a first round pick and
they moved up, so that already sets the expectations for

(20:35):
Jackson Dart. I still don't think there is an overwhelming
emergency to get him on the field this year. In
an ideal situation, Russell Wilson, regardless of what the standing
showcase in the record shows, should be able to handle
this season, assuming he stays healthy. So you could still
utilize this season as a red shirt year for Jackson Dart,

(20:56):
let him consume be a sponge, learn and watch from
a true pro. And then because Russ is not on
a lengthy contract, there could be a transition per saying
next year. But I'm looking at it right now in
terms of twenty twenty five. Just because they moved up
to get Jackson Dart, this idea that he should see

(21:18):
time immediately. I completely disagree with that sentiment. If they're
a lopsided games, John, whether it's good or bad, you
want to get him in in garbage time as they
call it.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
That's fine, But yeah with him push.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
To put him on the field with Russell Wilson in house,
I don't think is there.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
I have tried to be as clear with all the
fans that have listened to our programming over the weekend
as I can be. Guys, do not try to rush
this guy on the field. Do not Now might he
get here? And Brian Dabile figures out old man, this
kid's father along that I thought, we think this is
going much fast. We think we can get him on
the feel faster. If that's what the coach decides. You

(21:56):
have to trust Brian Dable that he sees stuff that
we don't. Right, we don't know what's going on in
the practice, seri at Lance. Once the season starts, we
don't know what's going on in the meeting rooms. He's
gonna know that stuff that and we're not. But as
a fan on the outside, if you start the year
and you're two and five and it's like October twelve,
if you call up this show and ask for Jackson Dart,
I'm going to tell you the answer right now. No,

(22:19):
he was brought in here to develop slowly. But John
the record, you have nothing to lose. No, he was
brought in here to develop, slowly, develop him, and nurture him.
Do not let your impatience rush him onto the field
before he is ready. There is ample evidence that letting
quarterbacks marinate before they get onto the field, UH can
improve their flavor and their performance. I just went full

(22:42):
in with the metaphor yeah pronation, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. That
was that. She was a very datino.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
You just didn't use pasta that's all that was missing.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Something tells me Thatatino doesn't like get very creative in
terms of marinating his h his proteins.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Though, I think I think he likes it very plain.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah. I think he just throws it on the grill
or you know, pops it on, unless.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
He puts some marinarosauce perhaps on the protein, depending on
what the protein is.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
You don't really marinate something in marinaro.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
No, no, but you know what.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
But but Paul may not really get a full grasp
of the marindation process, so he may look at it
is just throw some marinarosauce on it.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Marination marinaras.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
It's like you say, word what That's where I was
going with that.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yes, so if you call up, we're gonna say no, patience, no,
take your time, Let him develop at the pace he
needs to develop at and let the coaches and Brian
Day will do their thing with him. Be patient. You
call up in December, that's twelve games into the year,

(23:42):
maybe we can have a different conversation. Don't call on
September in October asking for this kid to play. They're
gonna get some pushback from us. I'm just telling you, right,
now warning you ahead of time. I'm gonna get annoyed
at you because I'm warning you now if you call
on September in October, we're gonna tell you no, and
to be patient. That's it.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Well, the other thing that I want to throw out
that I also don't want to hear, is we're piling
up those items is I'm sure a lot of people
and I look back at this, so I'm going to
explain that there are major differences. Brian Dable went through
this with Josh Allen in Buffalo, Okay, twenty eighteen. He
was part of that big group of quarterbacks that was
taken in the top ten picks. Now, Josh Allen started

(24:21):
in twenty eighteen, not immediately, But the biggest difference is
the Buffalo quarterback depth chart had Nathan Peterman atop the
depth chart. There is no comparison between Nathan Peterson's resume
as well Nathan Peterman's resume. Excuse me as well as
Russell Wilson or Peterson either one, yes, either one, even
if I'm making up quarterback names. So you're bringing in

(24:43):
a completely different example in terms of what Brian Dable
was deciding between and oh Josh Allen briefly got hurt
in twenty eighteen, and they wound up bringing in another
veteran quarterback under those circumstances. So it's a little bit
different in terms of the options that were available in
Orchard Park, New York, compared to the Giants. I don't

(25:03):
think saying, oh, well, Brian Dable's gonna tap into how
he approach things with Josh Allen. No, I think it's
a completely different story. If he had Russell Wilson and
Jameis Winston in Buffalo, I think he probably would.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Have taken his time. Now.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Granted he wasn't the head coach, remember Sean McDermott was,
but Brian Dabel had a big say as the offensive
coordinator in terms of bringing along Josh Allen and so forth.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
He look and Joe Shane has talked about him many times.
He does believe in the quarterback not playing right away.
He believes in that and Brian Dabele talked about putting
together a development plan for the quarterback. Brian Dable is
very intentional with everything he does with these quarterbacks. We
talk about like the ex's and o's tests. He put
these guys do when they come in to visit on
the pro days and stuff like that. You know, we
don't know what other teams do, but my understanding is

(25:44):
that it's one of the more complex things that any
team does with these drafted quarterbacks. So yeah, you have
to trust what they're doing with him. And look, there's
a reason Jackson dar wasn't a top ten pick, right
He's not to quote Carlbanks that I've done this many
times over the weeks. Again, it's not just add water
starting NFL quarterback. Yep, it's gonna take more than that.
You gotta mix some ingredients. You gotta get this in there.

(26:05):
You gotta get that in there to get him ready
to go. So be patient. Do not rush him onto
the field. He's not gonna be ready right away. And
that's okay, okay, that's why he's a quarterback picked at
the end of the first round, not in the top
five picks, of the top ten picks. That's when the
Giants didn't have to trade up to pick eight or
pick nine or pick ten. We're eve gonna pick in
the teams to go get him. So be patient, take

(26:27):
your time and try to develop him. And if you
develop him, you don't have to draft into the quarterback. Great.
If you don't get to where you want to go
to in the year, then you move. Then you figure
it out what what your next move in is and
what you paid for him this year is not going
to prohibit a future move at that position if you
want to make it. So it's really that simple final
anything else in the draft lins before.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Well, the only other thing that I just wanted to
throw out is remember seventh round picks. You're picking based
on character traits and potential and physical traits. Correct, it's
gonna be hard a for them to be a lot
to make the roster. You look, get Thomas Fadoni. The
second has injury history. The first two years of college
were sidelined due to a torn acl He played in
twenty three and twenty four and led the team in

(27:10):
touchdowns in twenty three. But I think that the lack
of mileage on his body as a result of the
injury is a positive. But you know, we'll see what
he can carve out in terms of creating a role
and then And it hasn't seemed to suck as athleticism
by the way, No, it hasn't tested. More importantly, if
you watch him play, he looks fast on the field.

(27:31):
So you saw the speed on tape, and then it
checked out when they did the testing at the combine,
So it doesn't look like that kN the injury has
sucked away any of it as that love and he's
two years removed from it to John, so yeah, he's
played two whole seasons correct that that helps. Corey Black
has tremendous speed. I like the fact that he has
a little special teams experience and pun coverage.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Good size too.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Yeah, six footer who can run four point three. I
mean that certainly jumps off the page. And once again
they've got a number of corners who were from previous
draft classes who they brought in via free agency. He'll
go out, he'll compete, and he'll also, like Fidoni, try
to carve out a role. I think the two things
that once again jump out about these players is you

(28:13):
like the athleticism and what they could perhaps bring to
those respective positions. But I think special teams John is
the key operating phrase, maybe for blackmore so than Fidoni.
They've got to show something in that area if they
want to solidify a position.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, for both of them, no, I'm with you one
hundred percent. But I think Fidoni in terms of physical ability,
like he could be a number two tight end of
this league just by the way he plays in his
athleticism and Nebraska matt role. He makes those guys block too.
So the former NFL coach a very physical game. So
I think just things to keep an eye.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
And he said he's a physical player when he was
asked by the media. That was the first thing that
he pointed out.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
He tattooed himself indeed to be pretty tough.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yeah, twelve or thirteen tattoos, and one of them he
did himself.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
No word yet whether the Giants logo is going on
the body that is at this point very excited.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
They brought in a Pizon by the way, it can
only imagine.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Well, I mean, does it really matter. I think anytime
a guy puts on a Giant's uniform, Paul's excited.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
He gets it.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
He gets that.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
You could bring in Joe Schmoe off the street and
exactly think better than a.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Guy were in a Giant forms a guy whore in
a Giant. For me, they put a little like put
the little Italian flag on one of the arms. Oh okay,
it gets him even more excited.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Marinara sauce tattoos. We covered all, yes, we did, yes,
all right, let's.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Get to the calls two one nine three nine four
five one three. Just a reminder, I mentioned it before
our interview with Joe Shane. Giants YouTube channel is also
opened the Giants Huddle podcast. Check that out. You can
find that Giants app, Giants dot com slash podcast search
for Giants Huddle Draft Season. If it's not up yet,
it will be shortly. Tony Pauline and I we split it.
We just went a long time, folks, So we split
AFC NFC. NFC is the first one that's going up today,

(29:52):
and then AFC's number two that'll probably go up tomorrow.
We want to get those up as quickly as possible
because we don't want to let the draft review stuff
hang for too long. And then I'm working on some
other guests to review with the Giants in on the
draft for this weekend next leading up to Rookie Mini Camp,
which is in about twelve days. Right, it's not this Friday,
it's the following Friday, person when they show up, right,
So make sure you go check that out. All right,

(30:12):
let's go to ab Duel Minneapolis. You will lead us off. Hi, Abduel,
how are you buddy? Did we just lose? Ab Duel?
Ab Dul call back? We will get a due you there,
I think we just lost that due a duel call back.
We will get you right up. All right, pal, don't
worry about it. All right, let's go back to the
calls and say hi to Ron in New Jersey. Ron,
what's going on man?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
How are you good?

Speaker 6 (30:32):
Guys?

Speaker 7 (30:32):
One time? No talk?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
What's up with?

Speaker 7 (30:34):
Technical question?

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Quick?

Speaker 7 (30:35):
Technical question on the draft? And one about card? Okay,
I feel strongly. I feel strongly about what I want
to say now. I went to the draft party. I'm
a long time see Dakota five to seven thirty.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I had to leave.

Speaker 7 (30:48):
World class customer service. Everyone in the place is courteous.
I had three guests with me. They said the same thing,
And I want you guys to be the ones to
pass to the loong to the powers. Even the parking
lot guys are good and you know what I mean
by that. That's that's a surprise, But honest to god,
it just made us all feel welcome and part of

(31:09):
the family. So real good job, run.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
That's great. You know, we used to have Lance in
charge of the customer service over there, and Lance canna
get a little ornery, so so we made sure we
removed him out of the process, and we're happy the
people we put in there instead of Lance have really
done a much better job. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Good better train.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
Been bothering me. You know how the first three teams
switched in rounds one, two, and three?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, they always do going, yep.

Speaker 7 (31:31):
They've always done that, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
They have usually when teams have the same record. H well,
you know when I say always, oh, I think maybe
in like the last five years. So what they do
if teams finished with the same record, right, Uh, they
look at the strength of the opponent's schedule. The team
that has the toughest opponent schedule gets to pick first
of the three teams, but in order to try to
even it out a little bit, they will then rotate

(31:53):
those teams each round. So it was like it yeah,
so it was this year. I guess it was Brown's
Giant Patriots, right, and I'm sorry it was Titan I'm
sorry it was Titans, Browns Giants. The next round the
was Browns Giants, Titans, and then the final round it
was Giants Titans Browns in round three, and then it

(32:13):
resets in round four and goes to the cycle lf again.

Speaker 7 (32:16):
Right, got all right, So I love the draft him
thrilled first years, I'm thrilled. I'll do Carter. I should
know the answer to this. But some have said he
can play off fall linebacker. Remind me what all fall
linebacker is and will he cover tight ends and running bags.
Well I was undimpressed, and he was just you know,

(32:37):
after the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Well that that's what he did primarily ron In his
final and third year of Penn State, he changed positions.
He became a basically a defensive end for for Penn
State in his final the year, and that's what he became.
He was a pass rusher, but his first two years
he played off ball linebacker. So he played middle linebacker
off ball awfall. That means basically like a guy not
lining up on the line of scrimmage. So when you

(32:59):
say one of these they put somebody lines up on
the ball, you know you're one of the guys either
with their hands in the diurnom line of scrimmage or
standing up outside one of the defensive ends or tackles.
That's an on ball player. Off Ball players are your corners,
your linebackers, your safeties. They play off of the line
of scrimmage, which means you're playing in space more right.
You're not just putting your head down the wrong way

(33:20):
to put it, but you're not just trying to get upfield.
You're reading or reacting to what the offense is doing.
To your point, you could drop into zone. You can
cover tight ends, you can cover running backs, and yes
he did do that his first two years in fact
line that was one of the questions I asked. That
was my first question for Joe Shane in an interview
with him, and I said, Joe, how did the fact
that you got to watch him as an off ball
player help your evaluation with him as an edge player,

(33:43):
which is what he's probably gonna play mostly here? And
he said, look, you see his instincts. You can see
that he does have a fuel for space, He has
a feel for the game. You can see him run
sidelined to sideline more with the stuff that he did
as as an inside linebacker or off ball line cerbacker.
You know whatever, you want to look at it, and
then you can see that compliment the upfield pass rushing
skills he had as his third year as a defensive.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
End less traffic too, that you're gonna be working with
as well.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
Is that to get him on the field for the
rotations defensive don't.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
No, no, no, no, they don't. And and Ron, thanks
for the call. I think not appreciate it man, good stuff,
and thank you for the kind words. I will certainly
pass it on to the people upstairs. Fact Pierson, let's
clip that call. We begins sending upstairs with the folks.
I think they'll be happy to hear Ron's good experience
at the UH. At the draft party, they had Michael Parsons.
That's why he was at off ball linebackers first two years. Yeah,

(34:40):
let's be honest that Michael Parsons and the Penn State
has always had a bunch of really the chop Robinson, right, you.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
Had all those job Robinson is the main reason I
think why Abdulla Carter played off the Carter.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
And Parsons overlap one year or maybe not even one year.
Actually you might be right about that, but it was
chob Robinson O Dafeolway maybe for a year. Maybe he
was there his freshman year.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Maybe may have. Yeah, but they they had.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Bottom line, they have really a lot of really good
pass rushers on the edge there, and it's probably hard
to find space there for him, right, So you played
them off ball to start, and then they moved him
to the edge. In fact, it was him. He was
the one that requested moving to defensive vent to make
the most of his skills. So I think that kind
of worked out for everybody. Yeah, I'm looking up. Oh,
let's see Oway was drafted in twenty twenty one. No,

(35:27):
so they was.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
They did not know cross paths there.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
So it's Chob Robinson and then there's somebody in between
Chob Robinson in o way that I cannot remember. There's
somebody else in there, and I don't remember the player's name,
but there's another.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Guy in a brand up the roster.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah. In the meanwhile, I'm duing Minneapolis did call back.
I'm sorry about that, man, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Oh, no, it can be. It's gonna be kind of
cool hearing my name being said for regular next few
years on TV.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
By the way, I'm sure you love it.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, that that being said. This, uh, this off season
and especially the last three days has been a well
needed in session of positive positivity to the organization and
the fan base. You know, after the past twelve months
starting with the the Hard Knocks interview and then Takuan
going to the Eagles winning for two thousand yards a
the whole season in general, this, uh, this fan base

(36:15):
and organization kind of had a low, a low spot,
and the last three days has has completely changed the
direction of everything. The perception has gone one eight and
it's been well needed, you know, as a fan, like
you know, I was at a low point. I barely
listened to Giants Radio and then as of you know, Sunday,
I'm back on you know, reading, I'm reading the articles,

(36:36):
the podcast, I'm calling you guys back. It's it's been
it's been a it's been a really needed a jot
of positivity. That being said, the one thing that I'm
still concerned with is the defensive coordinator. My main concern
is under his tutelage or under his watch, a lot
of key players.

Speaker 6 (36:55):
Kind of regressed.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
The linebacker Kurrk and the cornerback banks they kind of
regressed and to uh to kind of bar from uh.
Bill Parcell's kind of analogy about cooking and uh ante
dots poly dots like so shown. Dott has gotten uh
the demens, the coordinator a lot of good ingredients to

(37:17):
make a great meal. Right So as of right now,
I'm not sure if he's gonna be a line cook
from Denny's or except for laburnadad, you know, like like
I like, he has all the ingredients there, right. The
Giants have loaded up the shelves.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, look, I know you're right. They have added a
lot to the defense this offseason, a lot.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
So you know, I'm not gonna you know, I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna rush to judge Bent. I'm just
they picked this guy, you know, and I I trust
the head office, you know now, especially that they think
this guy has the the goods to you know, make
this defense as potent as it can be. I just
you know, I didn't see it last year. So I

(37:57):
hoped last year that the shelves, with the analogy, the
shows all were more bear. But now that he's fully stacked,
I really hope that he does what he makes this
defense what he really can be. And I'm really psyched,
uh to be back engage with the Giants because you know,
I love this team. I've been a fan since eighty
six and the past year has been kind of rough.

(38:17):
So I'm back in. I'm to you, guys.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, nice, good to have you back out, Dull. We
appreciate that. And look, guys, I mean the defense wasn't
good enough last year. John Maris had in his pro
season pres conmence he was tired of watching He's running
up and down, run up and down the field on them.
And you know, Joe Shane and I'm not sure if
they will mention it, but when they were at the
podium together, they talked about, you know, this pass rushed
off on the defensive line is great to have all

(38:42):
these pass rushers in the game. Well, guess what in
order for that passwork to work lands And we saw
this in the second half of last year. The pass
rush becoes much less effective when you're never playing with
the lead and the other team can run the bowl
whenever they want.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, you got to start with stopping the run.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
I mean, that's the bread and butter of any defense
that has a really good pass rush. Why, because you're
forcing them to third and longs and maybe even second
in longs. John see pass rushing situations and the ability
to get after the quarterback is dictated by down and distance.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
That's what it comes down to.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
If you're giving them gaping holes on the ground and
you're telling the guys go after the quarterback and it's
second in three, well, the offense can run the football.
Quarterback's not gonna be dropping back under those circumstances.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
And guess what, the other team's just gonna run play
action and it's much harder to rush the pass or
against play action. Yeah, and they can keep running play
action because they're in have a lead, there are good
down in distances, and you have to worry about the run.
These can't stop it, so you hope that this combination
of guys they've brought in will stop the run. The
offense can score just a few more points please where

(39:43):
you get some more leads, and then the pass rush
can really get off. Remember when the Giants, look, they
started the year two in three, two and four last year,
what was it, whichever one it was. They were playing
close games to start the year, so they were in
these games, so it gave the pass rush a chance
to do really well. Later in the year, they started
getting some of those big deficits they got down begging
a lot of these games, Lance, and then it became

(40:05):
much more difficult because of the type of game flow
that we were talking about.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Yeah, well one and three one start the season, Yeah,
Minnesota Washington and yes, yeah, well you're right, they did
win the second game after the Dallas game, so they
did go to two and two.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yes, I was just looking at the first four, the
first quarter. Yeah before But.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
Well, to your point, what I was going to emphasize
here is we could sit here and get all excited
over names on a roster, which doesn't mean much of anything.
I think Joe Shane even pointed this out, because it's
all about a how you utilize that talent, whether or
not the talent could stay on the field.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
And the other thing that's important.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
Is is we're focusing on the defense here, and this
is what you were alluding to. The offense. How productive
that side of the ball is is actually going to
tell an awful lot about how productive the defense.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Is going to be.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Absolutely, see me.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
You can't analyze any football team, specifically the Giants, where
you say, oh, well, the Giants added all this personnel,
so the defense is going to skyrocket up the rankings yeah,
that sounds great. But if the offense does not manufacture
better production and puts the defense out on the field
where they have to now go above the exes and

(41:21):
oh's to have these game changing plays, how many possessions
changes things drastically? How many possessions are the defense on
the field for that's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right. Is the offense productive enough where they're only out
there for seven or eight possessions? Or does the offense
keep going three and out and they're on the field
for twelve like it could be that big of a
difference depending on the flow of the game. So Wellance,
you're absolutely right, one hundred percent agree with you. All right,
let's go to Brandon in New Jersey.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
He's up next Toe and Brandon before you spond, I
just I looked it up.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
It's a disa Isaac. Who was the others? Who's Baltimore?
That was the other guy that was in front of Abdulk.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
He also went to Baltimore.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
He went to the Ravens.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
He had twenty twenty five Brandon, what do you got?

Speaker 2 (41:58):
All right?

Speaker 8 (41:58):
So I got two things. One is a point of
clarification of something I had called before the draft. And
then it does tie into my second thing, which is
more or less a concern with the organization and kind
of where they're at and basically based on their history.
So the first thing is the point of clarification before
I at the end of the call last time, I
said something that was a little a jarring, but I

(42:19):
can give further context, which is that I think Phil
Rivers was the greatest and I want to underline the
word greatest choke artists there at quarterback. And I'm going
to give you another example so it's not as a jarring,
but this player still is in the league, so I
didn't want to use them as an example, But Dak
Prescott also fits in this category. And essentially what I
was trying to get to was during the regular season,

(42:41):
these are all pro top ten quarterbacks. As soon as
you get into the postseason. When in the postseason, at
some point it may not be every game, but multiple
games in the it is necessary for your quarterbacks and
I only play to their normal standard, but they're going
to have to up that level of play in order
to continue to the next round. To some degree somewhere,

(43:02):
it's not that Phil Rivers is a bad quarterback. Is
that during the regular season. Dak Prescott during the regular season,
this is an amazing quarterback, but when his team needs
him the most in order to continue, when it's win
or go home, they tend not to show up. And
that was really what.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I was I I totally know what you're coming from.
I think some of that has to do with what's
going on around those quarterbacks in those spots too. But
let's not waste time on that debate. Now, what's your
major point you want to make on the draft class?

Speaker 8 (43:26):
All right? So my issue with Jackson Dart, and if
you know, I was calling before the drafted him NOD
which was my issue. My red flag with Jackson Dart
was that in his college career he never was able
to elevate whenever there was pressure, and not pressure as
far as pressure in the pocket, I mean pressure to
get down the field. We're down the score and we

(43:48):
need we got a minute and some change, we got
to get down There was none of that. There was
none of that that necessary that He's never showed an
ability to extend or make sure his team and will
his team down the field. And in the NFL, where
you have once every most games are decided by one score. Again,
what I was saying was after the two minute warning

(44:10):
is where you're gonna make your money. We well, real
quickly those amazing throws from the first quarter at the
two minute warning as well.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Then they say what you're saying, Go back watch the
LSU game September thirtieth, twenty twenty three. They won fifty
They wont I watched them. They won fifty five to
forty nine. In that game, Jackson Dart was twenty six
to thirty nine for three hundred and eighty nine yards,
four touchdowns and no picks, and his team scored fifty

(44:37):
five points against a Jayden Daniels led LSU team.

Speaker 8 (44:43):
His junior year, all right, well, I have to go
back and look at further into his junior year, yep,
But I'm mostly focused. I did look at the end
of his junior year, and I'm mostly focused on his
senior year, because that's really the player you're bringing into
the building, not the junior year I got you. And
in his senior year there wasn't much of that. And
this is what my overall concern is, this organization has
not shown the willingness to be honest with what they're

(45:08):
looking at and move on before it gets too long.
I think Jackson Dart is going to be very good,
especially in that first fifteen of plays. I think that's
where he really shines. Is right, He's got his game plan,
he knows what he's doing, he's gonna go. I think
he's much better than the last quarterback. So I don't
want to make it sound like I think he's a
terrible quarterback out the gate, but I do believe that

(45:30):
his feeling will lock him into one of the one
of the Dak Prescott of the world where you're gonna
end up paying the guy a lot of money. But
do we, any of us truthfully think that Dak Prescott
is ever going to an NFC championship, let alone a
super Bowl just based on his history. I mean most
people would say no.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
I think it's not hard for me imagine him getting
his team to an NFC title game. That isn't hard
for me to imagine, to be honest with you, and look,
I think we have to see. We have to see
how he does. Brandon, I understand your concern. You're right
this past year there were not a lot of close
late wins for ole Miss. You're not wrong about that
I don't don't disagree with you. That's fair, but I

(46:08):
think you have to see how it develops here, and
you know, you make the point that they hold onto
guys too long. Remember Joe Shane and Brian Dables specifically,
they did not pick up Daniel Jones's fifth year option.
They were more than ready to move on from him
until they had the miracle twenty twenty two season, in
which case, after you win a playoff game, you're not

(46:29):
just gonna dump your young starting quarterback into the nether
after you win a playoff game. So I think this
group is pretty realistic. I mean they haven't for I mean,
after two years. Did they force feed Evan Neil into
the starting lineup last year?

Speaker 8 (46:45):
Injuries, but otherwise I think they would have if he
wasn't injured to start the year, I think they would have.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Which is I mean they went out there, hold on.
They went out there and signed Jermaine A. Lumino and
talked about him as their starting right tackle in the
off seat in last year, I thought.

Speaker 8 (47:03):
They were wanting him to go to right guard. I
think it was running was going to be left guard.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
It was a competition.

Speaker 8 (47:08):
Lemnor was slated to be right guard until Neil got hurt.
It was that's how that actually went.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
It was it was going to be a competition. Evan
Neil was they said he was not going to be
given the starting right tackle job. It was going to
be a competition. That's what it was going to be.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
They also had Greg van Roaden too, so there were
options there. It wasn't a lock I think for now.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Rode wasn't brought back in though until after Neil had
his step back whatever.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Okay, well, I mean I'm looking at him more towards
the beginning of the season as opposed to maybe the
conversations that were happening in you know, April or May.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Fair enough and Brenton. Let me put it this way,
have they forced Jalen Hyde into the starting lineup.

Speaker 8 (47:42):
No, he's got a first round three there. That's just
where they tend to do this at. They tend to
do this at whoever's It's not just quarterback specific obviously,
whoever's picked in the first round. And I get that
because of the cost of that, every team doesn't. I
did that player as many opportunities as possible.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Brandon every time, every time does to me.

Speaker 8 (48:04):
I feel like the organization does not say, Okay, regardless
of where we selected this player for this position, here's
our standard. And if I've drafted you in the first
round and you're well below this standard or you're not
meeting the standard. Instead of just like the Steelers, instead
of just saying all right, that's not going to work
and move on and then worry about the tabloids on

(48:24):
the back end, they tend to give that person chance
after chance after chance. I take the chance.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I think that is a fair criticism of things that
happened here from like two thousand and thirteen to two
thy and eighteen. I think you had guys hang around
and hang around the rookie contracts even though they did
not produce. I think at times during that period that
is a fair criticism. I'm not convinced that this particular

(48:53):
regime should inherit the sins of what happened back then.
I don't think I've seen the evidence from this group
that that's still a problem. Do you think that's.

Speaker 8 (49:02):
Fair, I'll say the jury's out, that's what yeahs.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Honestly, they haven't been here long enough. Their first draft
lass is just hitting their fourth year, so it's hard
to kind of tell, you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (49:15):
Well, and also, like Eric Gray is still on the roster,
isn't he. Like that's that's kind of where.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I'm at too.

Speaker 8 (49:20):
Eric could have been moved on, you know, but we're
still there with Well.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
But I mean, and I don't.

Speaker 8 (49:26):
Think it's more of the same than me.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think Eric Gray is a
great example branded to your point, you know.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I mean.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
Also my counter to that would be, what type of
a burden is Eric Gray doing to the roster right now?

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Who are you depriving.

Speaker 8 (49:39):
He's a roster slot. Well, for me, he's just a
roster slot. And I would call it in the off
season last year and said I had my bold prediction
somewhere on the board that Eric Gray would actually be
cut because his rookie year he looked very small And
I'm just this is from at home. He looked very small.
He had a good little amount of burse at times,
but whenever he was given the ball repeatedly through a

(49:59):
little bit of a stent of a time, it really
wasn't much production on the back end. And he's a
later round pick. And then you go into year two
with him and it's like, Okay, well now he's barely
getting touches. And then when you're looking at your year
three and it's like, are we gonna move on from
this player? Because it's not that he's bad, he's just
not again, set the standard, you're not meeting it, move.

Speaker 7 (50:19):
On, don't do that.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
But this is going to be year three.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
I mean, they haven't finalized the roster yet and they
just drafted a running back.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
So what does that tell you?

Speaker 8 (50:30):
Hopefully we'll see And as I said, Drury is still out.
That's what that's my point. Drury is still out. But ultimately,
if I have to, if I'm calling back in two years,
going a chief to saying it, we haven't made a
comeback win yet. Every time we're down three, that means
we lose the game. That's what we're doing. In two years,
we might be eight years like that. Thank you from
their history, and that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
No, and I appreciate the call, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Well, I mean where I disagree with his assessment about
the quarterback, and I'll bring back the whole Philip Rivers
and Dak Prescott, and Rivers and Dak Prescott help their
teams get to the playoffs quite consistently in the second
round of the play that to me holds value. See
the problem I have with his litmus test is he's
going Super Bowl, NFC Championship game or bust. And that's

(51:14):
not how you should be evaluating quarterbacks. The Giants right
now are trying to get to the playoffs and see
if they could do that consistently. If your quarterback helps
you accomplish that, then I think you've done well. You're
raising the bar so far beyond the Giants. It's a
baby step. It's winning record, competing for the division title.
How about they get there first before you start making

(51:36):
these declarations. But I think your assessment of Philip Rivers
and Dak Prescott is off point based on what those
two did and Dak is still playing consistently in the
regular season and helping position their teams to get to
the playoffs. If you draft a quarterback and to develop
a quarterback, John, that keeps you in the conversation on
an annual basis. I think that is a fulfilling draft pick.

(51:58):
This idea that well, you have to get seven NFC
championship games and win a Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
Name me all the guys that have done.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
That, especially if you're using a pick at the bottom
of the first round. Four. It's one thing if you're
picking him second overall, but Dak was a fourth round pick. No, no, no,
But I'm reversing back to Jackson Dart here. Okay, right, Yeah,
if you use the second overall pick in the draft
and you don't take an Abdul Carter or you don't
take a Travis Hunter to take a quarterback, and that

(52:24):
quarterback's because of his physical traits, is never going to
be capable of you, of taking you to where you
need to go. I get that argument. I've made that argument.
I understand that argument. But when you're picking a quarterback
at twenty five, when pretty much all the first round
grades in this class are going to be off the
board and already taken, then I think it's a different conversation.
And Dart has good traits. You know, he can run,

(52:47):
he's tough, he's got a good, maybe not elite, but
good arm. You know, he's big enough, he's thick, you know,
he's he has his capability. So his traits are good,
they're not great. Well, he wasn't picked in the top
five he's picked at twenty four, right, so you have
to look at it in terms of the level of X.
Measure it that way correct, and again look at the

(53:10):
other guys that would have been available at pick thirty four.
And to his point, I mean, we're on year four
of the of this regime's first draft class. I don't
think we can start saying, oh, they're holding on the
guys too long. You know, I don't buy that.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Well, but then the counter to that is you're also
you'd be wasting picks John if you bail on players
also that quickly too.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Now, if a guy is not good enough, I don't
want to keep him around just to say he keep
him around either, But.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
I'm talking about if you draft the guy. I'm gonna
go back to the Eric Gray example. I just that
to me is not the hill to climb with this point.
Eric Gray has played two years in the National Football League.
He's now entering year three. He'll have additional competition at
the running back position. And if he doesn't make the roster,
then you would say, okay, you had two years to
evaluate him and you decided to move on, or even

(53:54):
if he does make the roster, you need we talk
about you can't grade a draft class until three to
four years pass by.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Now you want to create.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
A draft class a year and a half into a
player's career. I just that to me is impractical. All right,
let's go to and I would hold that true for
any team. I'm not just talking about the Giants, by
the way, talking about that applies across the board.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
It's going to Charlie in Portland. Man. I, Charlie, I
haven't heard it from you since the draft ended or
started for that matter. What do you.

Speaker 6 (54:20):
Gotta because I was waiting until this fiasco is over with.
I give it a c. We made a big mistake
on the quarterback. And I don't care what you say.
If you waste draft picks to move up to get

(54:41):
a guy in the first round, then he'd better start
playing right away. At least there should be competition between
Rusty Wilson and win Some and Dot Beta.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
That's That's not what it is, Charlie. That's not what
it is. And I'm just telling you you can yell
and scream about it. And if you keep calling yelling
a scream about it, Charlie, I'm not gonna put you on.
But because that's the situation here. They told us at
the introductory press conference. It's not a competition. He's here
to develop and Russell Wilson is the starter. Bring that injy. Oh,

(55:12):
So it's let me ask you something. Is Patrick Mahomes
a franchise quarterback?

Speaker 6 (55:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:20):
When Patrick Mahomes got drafted by the Chiefs behind Alex Smith,
was that a competition for the starting job?

Speaker 3 (55:26):
He played one game, but it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Oh wait, wait, do you know better than Andy? Wait
a time out? Do you know better than Andy Reid
had to developed quarterbacks? Charlie, do you know better than
Andy Reid how to developed quarterbacks?

Speaker 6 (55:39):
Look, I'm telling you something right now, and I don't
care if you have any ever on your show again.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
He is Can I write that down? He just said
he doesn't care if we ever have him on the
show again.

Speaker 6 (55:50):
He's a franchised quarterback. That's why you moved up and
gave up draft.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
You were trying to develop him into a franchise.

Speaker 6 (55:59):
Rusty Wilson played terrible in his last four games. You
can't just annoy him the starter. This needs to be
a competition. He made a big mistake and if he
had just picked him at twenty four or twenty five.
When we did, then we didn't have to give up
any compensation for him. Then I would say, you're right,
but you're not Troy.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
They traded a basically a pick at the top of
the fourth round and a third round pick next year.
This was not huge compensation in the trade.

Speaker 6 (56:27):
And they lost the second round pick. If you you
should have just taken him at three, If you really
wanted Dart, you should have taken him at three.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
That's that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
What to justify.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Play duel Carter?

Speaker 6 (56:44):
Yeah, you know who's better than a duke Carter Green?
Green is going to be a better pass rusher than.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
That shock goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. I can't, I can't, I can't.
I can't do it. We can't do it. I can't
do it. I can't do it.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
The problem we can't do it. Well after the draft
do it. Don't even attempt to.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
That the idea that you can't develop a quarterback. And
he had if he's picked twenty fourth in the first round,
where was Jordan Love drafted?

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Jordan Love was a late first round pick and then
sat and now took over. Yeah, but see that that's
the problem with Charlie's points are always generic. He doesn't
give examples that That's why it's hard to put any
credibility behind what he's saying. He just speaks in generalities.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
And iks, I'll do Carter stinks. Now, seriously, this is
what we're doing. The day after the Giants draft is over,
I'll do Carter's a bad pick. Every single person that
we evaluated the draft that said he was a top
two player in this class, they're all wrong. Every single
draft analyst I had on the Giants Little podcast for
two months. Two months, Pierson tell me I'm wrong. He

(57:47):
was a top two player for every single person, it
was unanimous. This stuff is never unanimous. It was unanimous.
But no, Charlie knows better. This isn't me saying it.
It's not my opinion. I'm going off consensus. And if

(58:10):
you look at the consensus or what everyone says, no
one's saying that Jackson Dart is already made, come in
and start right away quarterback. No one made that argument.
The Giants who picked him did not make that argument.
When they go out of their way at the first

(58:31):
press conference after they make the pick and they say no,
he's not starting right away. They have a plan for
the player. You might not like the plan, Charlie, and
that's fine. You might not like the plan, and that's fine.
That's your opinion. It's not reality. So if you want
to live in your non reality world and get mad

(58:51):
about it, that's fine. If my suggestion to you, and
you can always call back, y'all. You know that. But
I warned you before the show. If you're gonna call
up in October and ask me about this, I was
gonna get mad. So you decided I'm gonna try to
push the ovelope and call up in April at.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Ask him as if he's not gonna take advantage of that.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I guess what I got mad. I warned you, I
told you it was gonna happen. You push the button,
You tempted the bear and I went after him. Okay,
that's the reality. So I suggest if you want to
be a little bit happy over the next few months,
which probably is not the case that they truly likes,
just accept that reality. That's the reality. Okay, this is

(59:31):
Russell Wilson's starting job. Now, is there a chance I'm
not gonna rule it out that Jackson Dark comes in
and he's some prodigy that learns the offense in three
weeks and is some you know, wonderkin rookie quarterback. Could
this all go faster than we all think? Is it impossible? No,

(59:53):
We've all seen weird things happen, Lance, Dak Prescott ended
up starting his rookie years and when they had a
pro bowler and Tony Romo. Weird things happen in this league.
It's just the way it goes. But the plan is
what the plan is. Because of where the prospect is
when you picked him and picking a player a twenty
fourth overall in a draft where there's twelve to fifteen

(01:00:15):
first round picks, do you know what that means? Lance?
You're probably picking a second round player even though he's
actually selected in the first round. He's graded like a
second round player. But in order to make sure you
get the player because you really like him, and I
don't know where, maybe it was a first round player
the Giants board, I don't know where they had him graded.
You have to move up, especially at the quarterback if
you like the player to go when you get them,

(01:00:37):
don't you're transferring your opinion of what a first round
pick means onto what the Giants' intentions were and what
their opinion of a player is, and what it means
to pick a player in a certain slot just because
you view that differently than them. Don't put your expectations
on a player the Giants drafted when they might see

(01:00:59):
those expectations completely differently. If that's gonna get you upset,
and that's gonna get you mad, Charlie, then I hate
to tell you this. You're going to be mad and
you're going to be upset. That's just the way it's
going to be. And I can't help you. I can't
help you there. I can't help you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
There's also there's no rule of thumb when it comes
to the NFL in terms of just because you take
a quarterback in the first round that he has to
start immediately, or that you paint him or think he's
a franchise quarterback and he has to start immediately.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Way that is Charlie's idea.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
And I said the same thing about your Sanders. I
said he would take time to figure things out. I
said the same thing about Jalen Milroe, which would take
even more time to figure out. The only guy I
thought The guy that was closest to playing right away
was Tyler Shuk, but he's twenty five and he's had
a bajillion injuries. So I understand why you wouldn't go
down wouldn't want to go down that road, even though
we played really well last year. I get all that,

(01:01:52):
but come on, man, like, don't be mad for the
sake of being mad, and you have some optimism for
fucking day for day.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
There are guys that were drafted in the first round
that got opportunities because of injuries. Now we don't have
a crystal ball. Baker Mayfield sat behind Tyrod Taylor to
start twenty eighteen. Baker was the first overall pick. The
only reason why he got on the field was Taylor
got hurt two or three games into the season. So
I could give you plenty of examples, but I think
when you take your time with a quarterback, especially if

(01:02:30):
he is drafted in the first round, the chances of
it panning out I think do improve.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
It's not a lock.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
But when you have a veteran quarterback, this idea that
he should come in and he should compete immediately and
have a legitimate shot to take away the job of
the polished veteran. Why just because so you can evaluate
him immediately. I mean, you could say the benefit of
the Giants moving up in the first round is they
got the fifth year option, so they actually do have
a little bit more wiggle room to evaluate him as

(01:02:57):
opposed to think about this, if Dart was taken in
the second around, where they stayed put, they would have
had one less year on the contract.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
That's the other bonus of trading up. You get the
fifth year option. That's correct. And look, Bill Pollian came
on the show with Lance and I two weeks ago
to the day, and what do you say about rookie quarterbacks? Lance,
No rookie quarterback is ready to play right away, that
was his quote. I asked him that question, Would you
rather target somebody in the second round that maybe has

(01:03:24):
to develop more or might be more ready, And he goes, No,
one's ready in the first year. No one is.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Because it's so complex an NFL offense. I don't think
the average individual does not realize how much of a
jump up it is. Regardless of what you ran, even
if you ran a pro style college offense, it is
a completely different animal in the National Football And.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Yes, absolutely all right, Lennon Columbia rolland will inject some
optimism on the way out the door or Highland.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
I am going to be optimistic. I'm gonna be possitive.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
And what I feel bad now because I think Charlie
tried to do what he did to me. He tried.
I agree.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
I know it annoys you sometimes, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
But let I let him push my button. I mean,
that's what he wanted do it, and I'm annoyed it myself.
Is I let him get me annoyed, Charlie, I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
But.

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):
Okay, followed Charlie, you know, I want to go back
to Brandon's take for just a second. Something I couldn't tell.
He gave us something to think about. And actually I
had it on my mind because I heard his call
last week when he brought it up. When he brought
it up. So I mean, it's a very good point.

(01:04:32):
You know. All you got to do is to think of,
you know what, what cause he said about drafting Eli Manning,
why he wanted Eli Manning, And it's it's the same
thing he said every time I saw Eli he was
bringing the team back. So so it is he does
have a valid point But the one thing I couldn't
tell did he like the trade or not?

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Charlie, No, Brandon, I don't believe he thinks that Dark
can be a you know, a quarterback that can lead
you to the super Bowl. So by thought is that
he was not a fan of the moves.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
Wow, my thinking. I like the trade. By the way,
my thinking is, we had to come out of this
with a young quarterback. We just had to come out
of it, whether it was a mandate from above or
just show thanks thinking, well, I mean, this is what
we've been talking about from January. Bridge quarterback and bring
in a young quarterback. You might as well go early
and get the better ones. I mean, you know he

(01:05:26):
was talked about is what did we call him the
third best quarterback maybe the fourth best quarterback in the draft?
Well going it was showing, you know, he was showing
some good stuff and then people liked talking to him.
I like the trade. I like the trade now, but
I tell you I have to admit and in fact,
I like the whole draft. Arguably, I think we had

(01:05:47):
the best draft in the league. Arguably you could argue it.
The only thing that concerns me and John I didn't
hear your analysis of how the rest of the division went,
But my concern is the rest of the division and
did pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Also, Yes, Lenn, I agree. I think all three NFC
these teams actually did really I thought the Eagles had
a good draft again Dallas. I thought their first three picks,
Washington well.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
The NFC the NFC East did the best of all
the division.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Yeah, I also think the NFC West did pretty good.
I think the I think the Chiefs had a phenomenal draft.
I loved every player they took. But yeah, I'm with you.
I thought the NFC East all unfortunately did very well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
See that's the thing about the division.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
Now, the only thing, the only thing that's kind of funny.
And I know we're going to feel this way next
year too. You know, when it got to pick ninety nine,
I thought to myself, oh my god, I wish we
had ninety nine because my guy, because my guy Felton
was sitting there. I really wanted as you know, I
really wanted felt yeah with it. And I can just
imagine next year when we've got the seventy sixth pick

(01:06:50):
in the draft, you know, the twelfth pick, thirteenth pick
in the in the in the third round. We're going
to be sitting there and saying, oh my god, look
at all these good football player and we can't get
one of them. I think that's just a natural thing.
But I liked it. I just think they needed to
do it. We had to get a young quarterback, somebody
with some promise, you know, potential, seems like a likable guy.

(01:07:13):
I like everything about it. I thought the draft was terrific.
And as you know, you know, I called on Friday night, John,
I think I was the last call on Friday night. Alexander. Wow,
do you think he's a potential three down player?

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yeah? Absolutely, for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
I do. Yeah, I do too. I do too. I
wouldn't be disappointed if he stayed on the field. I'll
tell you that's just when you talk about for me anyway,
And this is I'm going old school now, when you
talk about a three four defense and the three down
lineman up front, cheef, he's got perfect size four three five.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
I mean, I will say this, when you draft a
guy where you drafted him, he better play all three
downs or have the potential to play all three downs.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
Okay, yeah, no, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind that. I'm
big on that. Outside of Carter, that was probably my
favorite pick. You know, Scatibow, he's going to be a
fan favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I mean people are gonna love him, Yeah, they are.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
You know, I hope he lasts that running style. You know,
he's he's got some violence behind his run. But you know,
linebackers are taught to be like that impact point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Look, ran Rover seventeen hundred yards. I think, though we
gotta run, what will help him? You can call that
layer in the week if you didn't get everything.

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Yeah, what will help Scataboo, I think is the fact
that if he doesn't come in and have a heavy
workload and the Giants do have tyro tracy, you're not
adding an immense amount of wear and tear initially on him.
So I think that's a positive from that standpoint. It
just real quickly what I wanted to say about the division.
See that's why when I hear fans talk about, oh,

(01:08:56):
you know, you have a good draft, you'll close the gap.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Hold on a minute. The three other teams are trying
to improve.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
Also, they don't just say, oh, we won the division,
we made the playoffs, We're content with our roster so
of course everyone around you is trying to get better simultaneously.
This idea that the three other teams stay put and
you just get better is living in fair and tailing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Though sometimes good teams because the salary cap and stuch
do lose good players. No, actually, like the Cowboys last
year lost a bunch of really good players and they
got worse.

Speaker 4 (01:09:25):
Absolutely, but they also are bringing in young prospects, so
simultaneously with the other teams.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
That's basically what I'm getting at.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
I'm with you on that. Yeah, all right, that's all.
We have plenty more to say about the draft, but
we have all week to do it, so let's not
waste any more time. Now, that's the time we have
for Big Bill Kickoff live here on Giants dot com
the Giants Mobile app. It's all brought to you by Cadillite,
the official luxury legal to Giants four Lands Metal. I'm
John Schmult coming to you from the Hackensack and Meridian
Health podcast studio. Keep getting Better. We'll be back again
tomorrow at twelve thirty. We hope to have Charlie Weiss Senior,

(01:09:55):
the father of Charlie Wise Junior, who is the offensive
coordinator for Jackson Dart at Old Mess. We hope to
have that cooking on tomorrow's show, and we'll see that

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Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/28 | Giants Draft Review

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