Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/29 | Charlie Weis on Jaxson Dart - Big Blue Kickoff Live | New York Giants

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
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Speaker 3 (00:24):
Let's go on, dog Welcome to another edition of Big
Blue Kickoff Live, presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle
the New York Football Giants. John Schmelch pulled a Tina
with you from the Hackensack and Marine Health podcast studio
Keep getting Better and to kick off today's show, we
will take your calls later on. As usual, we're joined
by former Giants assistant coach, longtime NFL offensive coordinator, multiple

(00:45):
times Super Bowl champion, and former head coach of the
Notre Dame Fighting Irish, the one and only Charlie White Senior. Charlie,
how are you?

Speaker 6 (00:52):
It just tells you I've been around for a long time,
That's all that.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Now. Charlie's been in our programming before. We wanted him
to join us now because the Giants selected Jackson Dort
out of Ole Miss Well. But hold on, John, you
didn't mention Ole Miss in Charlie's bio there, No, I
did not, because it's part of Charlie Weiss's junior's bio.
His son is the offensive coordinator at ole Miss. So
Charlie has obviously been locked into pretty much every Jackson
Dark game. I would imagine Charlie for the last three years,

(01:19):
every play, every play. So except for Charlie Junior, who
we do hope to get on on on one of
our shows down the road here, he has a great
feel for Jackson Dart in the way he plays quarterback. So, Troy,
why don't you give your before we get into the details,
your thumbnail on Jackson Dart as a player for Giant
fans that maybe really haven't watched him a ton at
Ole Miss.

Speaker 6 (01:42):
He's a poor man's Josh Allen on the field, and
he's a poor man's Tommy Brady you off the field.
And that's high accolades that I'm giving. And I say
poor man's. You know, you can't take somebody who's never
played it down in the NFL and compare him with
Josh Talent and Tommy Brady. I mean it just it's
not a fair comparison, But he plays like Josh Allen.

(02:07):
That's how he plays the game. I mean, you think
he's a damn linebacker when you when you watch him play.
I mean, he's a physical, tough guy who can make
every throw and when he runs the ball, don't expect
him to go down, which is one of the things
they're going to have to work on is because if
he has a choice, he'd rather hit you, you know, then

(02:31):
then then then go down. So uh, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll,
He'll figure that out. He'll figure that out. But what
probably impressed me even more as his development off the field.
You know, he comes there even though he's from Utah,
he was kind of a California kid, you know, coming

(02:52):
from USC. Uh, he looks like he looks like he
comes right off the beach in California. That's what he
looks like. So he gets to Ole Miss and it's
interesting because he ends up at Ole Miss because Caleb
Williams went to USC. So Caleb Williams was at Oklahoma
and when and when I was a coach at the

(03:14):
coaching change goes and his coach goes to USC and
he goes with him. Jackson goes, okay, I'm out of here.
And he got down to his final couple of schools
and ended up coming Ole Miss and it was great
for both Jackson and for Old Miss. But his first
year at ole Miss, I was there that summer and

(03:38):
I'm sitting in the back of a quarterback meeting because
I like to watch. I like watching my kid teach.
You know, I'm fascinated watching you know, his developed his
development as a coach, and I'm watching him teaching. At
the end of the meeting, Jackson pulls me aside and
asked me if he could talk to me for a

(03:58):
couple of minutes. He said, sure. Now, I remember I
hadn't played it down yet. He just gone through his
first spring, hadn't played yet, and the first question he
asked me is what's the difference between a good quarterback
and a great quarterback? That was the first question he asked.

(04:20):
So I went on to say to him that I'll
leave the football to Lane and Charlie because I wasn't
coaching him. It was Lane and Charlie. I said, but
I will explain to you the it factor. I said, no,
it is a word you can't define, but I can

(04:41):
explain it to you. And I'm going to use Tommy
Brady as my example. And I just told him how
Tommy Brady was his first year in the league when
he was our fourth string quarterback. And then I told
him how he developed the entire year war what he
did off the field the entire year, because you aren't

(05:03):
getting any reps on the field, what he did the
whole time to prepare himself. And then once he got
the job after Drew got hurt, he got the job,
how he developed the mentality within the entire team. And
then I watched Jackson for the next three years go

(05:23):
do that. He did exactly what we talked about it. Now,
not that you know my advice means anything, but that's
what he did. So I watched him not only be
a star player, an outstanding player somebody where if I
had to pick one guy in this draft to coach,

(05:47):
that's who I would pick. I would pick him first.
Now I'm not saying no disrespect to cam Ward or
any of the other guys, but that's why I would
have because of my knowledge base of what I've seen
for him him from him on or off the field,
That's who I would have won.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Jolie. If I may ask you specifically on the field
and off the field, could you give us one example
of where he made the biggest growth from the time
when you first met him till the time he's leaving
Old Miss right now?

Speaker 6 (06:20):
Well, Old Miss was you know, I had a bunch
of players drafted this year, as you know, Yeah, a
lot of those were portal guys because that's the environment
that college was in. You know, know, the biggest recruiter of
the defensive players at Old Miss was Jackson Dart. Wow,
who's the quarterback the biggest recruiter. Everyone wants to talk

(06:41):
about Pete Cold and who's the outstanding defensive coordinator at
Old Miss? And wants to talk about Lane? Who's like
the portal king. You go ask all those players, ask
all those players one of the reasons why they came.
Don't mention Lane, don't mention Pete and all mentioned Jackson Dart.
So why they mentioned a quarterback? And that's because what

(07:04):
the great quarterbacks do is they lead the entire team.
They're not just boys with the offensive skill players. They're
not just boys with you know, those starting offensive linemen. Okay,
they're around everyone and there that's one. That's one thing

(07:24):
you can't coach that. Yeah, you can't coach that. That's
that's that's something that's quite needed. All right.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
I got a two part X is an other question
for you, Charlie. Parton one, and we'll take them one
at a time. Is as someone that ran NFL offenses
for a long time. Link Kiffin comes from the NFL.
Your son obviously learned a lot from you came from
the NFL. What are the aspects of the olmost passing
attack that you think best translate from the college game
to what he's going to be asked to do here
at the Giants?

Speaker 6 (07:53):
Well? How many yards did he average per completion?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
I believe he led all of FBS, I think with
ten point eight portent. I think something like that.

Speaker 6 (08:02):
How many downfield throws did.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
I hear the most ten plus yard completions in college
football last year? Pretty good?

Speaker 6 (08:08):
What was the completion percent?

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Just on their seventy percent?

Speaker 6 (08:12):
Okay? What was his touchdown the interception ratio?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
More than I think?

Speaker 6 (08:16):
Want me to stop long the laundry list? Do you want?
Here's why? You know? You want to want something comical?
Everyone says, well, you know you're playing in that offense,
that offense at Old Miss where you know Lane Kiffen,
who actually Charlie runs the offense with Lane's kiss Kifvin's assistance.

(08:40):
But that's okay, okay, But Lane Kiffin's offense they get,
you know, they get guys wide open. I didn't realize
as a coach, your job wasn't to get them open.
So I guess that's why the Ole Miss coaches must
be dumb, because they're working schemes to try to get
guys open. I mean, if if that isn't the stupidest

(09:01):
thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Well, they
get they get wide open guys. Well, what are coaches
supposed to do?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Offensive coaching, Charlie, they really got offensive coaches?

Speaker 6 (09:11):
Make sure we get them covered. Now, let's mix sure,
let's make sure we don't create any separation and scheme
anyone open. Right there. But the two things that almost
does that don't translate. Let's talk about the two things
that don't translate. Sure, they play sideline, a sideline that

(09:32):
means they spread guys out from the entire width of
the field, and the NFL you don't see that very hard, right, right,
And they run such a fast tempo where they're snapping
the ball a lot of times under twenty seconds, and
other than a two minute drug. I'm talking about on

(09:53):
every down, I'm not talking about. I'm not talking about
in a two minute drive. I'm talking about. You know,
so they're running a hundred plays a game because I mean,
it's just rapid fire, go, go, go, go. No, obviously
you can't do that if you go three and out,
if you go three and out a whole game long,
your defense is, you know, on the field the entire game.

(10:14):
But they use the entire width of the field and
they go fast. So those things are not the normal
NFL things. But every other quality that we talked about,
I mean, tell me anyone who doesn't want those things
that we just talked about.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Now it's fair, all right, Part two of the question. Now,
take Jackson Dart's skill set, right, you talked about mobile player, tough,
he's got a good enough arm to make all the throws.
How does that translate into what Brian Dable wants a
quarterback to do. You're one of Brian dables coaching mentors.
You know what his system's like. You know what he
wants from a quarterback. How does Jackson Dart fit into

(10:54):
his system?

Speaker 6 (10:55):
Well, who's the quarterback I compared them to on the field.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Poor man, Josh Allen, you want me to continue? Could
you get into a little more detail for me?

Speaker 6 (11:08):
And it's a rhetorical question. I mean, he's gonna, he's
gonna there's gonna be a lot of similarities with what
he does. Now, Josh Allen has one of those unique
cannon arms, so he can throw a zillion yards. Jackson
can make every throw, every throw in a fields. He
can throw the deep out Okay, you can throw the

(11:30):
deep wall, you can throw a posts, he can throw
in cuts, he can throw and obviously they throw all
the quick stuff on top of it. I mean, I
think Brian he's looking at this guy and saying, oh
my god, wa way till I wait till I can
get him developed and get him on the field. I mean,
I'm sure he's looking at his chops. Now look at

(11:50):
if I'm a Giant fan, okay, Wichard, Now this is
forcing me to be a Giant fan again. By the way,
because I don't root for teams. I root for people, Okay,
because I know too many people in the league. I
don't coach anymore. So other than rooting for ole Miss,
I root for people. I roote for successive people. So
I root for Brian. Okay, I root for I root

(12:14):
for you know, the people I know in the Giant organization.
But I mean, if for Giants Lewis, I wake up
the next day, you know, I don't care. You guys
do care because you have to talk about it. I
don't have to talk about it, you know, So my
life moves on. But I think if I'm a Giant fan,
I'm looking at this guy, and they all have questioned

(12:34):
March all because they were getting force fed these other guys.
That's all they heard about, were the other guys. I mean.
And the first thing that naysayers want to do is
they want to go and talk about he threw a
couple of picks at the end of the Florida game,
which he did. Okay, go back and look at the
eight drop balls in the Florida game too. Eight. No

(12:58):
one wants to talk about the factory drop balls, multiple
ones for touchdowns. The game could have been totally different.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And frankly, Charlie, he played great until the last three
minutes of that game.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
Well, I was at the game. I wasn't very happy,
trust me, you know. And at the end of the game,
had one bad pass and one where you're just forcing
a pass at the end of at the end of
the game. So did he Yeah, did he have a
couple of picks at the end of the game. Yet
he did, he had a couple of picks at the
end of the game. But I mean, I just watched.
I mean, I got nothing bad to say about this kid.

(13:30):
I'm delighted he went to the Giants. You know. I talked.
I talked to a couple of people with the Giants.
I traded texts with the head coach and with Tim
McDonald and a couple of those other people. And what
they did in the first round was what I was
hoping they were going to do for a month. For

(13:51):
a month, I was I was hoping they would take
the whoever was left over of the Hunter Carter exchange.
I figured one of them will at least was gonna
be left over, whoever whoever was there, take that, and
then come back up in the first round and go
get dark. And that's exactly how it played out. Somewhere

(14:11):
along the line, I'm quoting quoted as saying I'd be
shocked if the Giants took a quarterback at number three,
I would have been shocked. And tell you what, I
wouldn't have taken any of them at number three, not
one of the one of the quarterbacks, but I've taken
in the top three. But they came back up and
they played it exactly right. You got to give credit

(14:34):
to Shane and Dable and everyone else are playing that right.
And I love the way the Rams are saying, yeah,
we had no interest. That's a bunch of garbage, because
how quick did Atlanta get the make a trade with
the Rams as soon as the Giants were on the clock.
If the Rams had already traded or pick away five

(14:55):
seconds after the Giants were on the clock because they
knew they weren't getting darted. I love, Oh, we weren't
that interested. The Saints weren't that interested. They're all liars,
as you know, because all everyone wants to say after
the draft is we got our guys, and we had
him ranked so much higher than everyone else. We can't
believe he was still there. Have you ever heard a

(15:16):
team organization not say how delighted they were with their draft?

Speaker 7 (15:21):
Never?

Speaker 6 (15:22):
Maybe next time it happens, will be the first time.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Charlie. Let me ask you a question that occurs with
a lot of college quarterbacks, at least over many recent years,
and that is operating out a shotgun and then when
you come to the NFL, all of a sudden, now
you've got to operate under center. Maybe it's only twenty
five percent of the time, but some guys find that
adjustment a little more difficult than others.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
How do you think he will adapt?

Speaker 6 (15:49):
Well, what do you think an intelligent quarterback? And this
guy's on top of everything else, she's has a three
seven grade point average. You know, it's not like he
actually goes to class. You know, shocker, news flash. You
know one of these guys who actually goes to school too.
But as soon as the season was over, what do

(16:12):
you think the number one thing he worked on was
taking snaps underneath center? Okay, so the season ends, you know,
the end of December, early January. I was at that
game too in Jacksonville, So I guess it was like
the beginning of January. I mean, it's what now, it's
what may you know, the end of April. I mean

(16:35):
he's had three months to work on taking snaps under center.
I mean, it doesn't take a lifetime to work on
footwork from underneath center, but it's definitely a transition. It's
not like it's just automatic. But the last time I
checked Drew Brees was was in shotgun every just every
snap in college.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
How did that work out? Mahomes?

Speaker 6 (16:58):
I mean they so the good ones know, Okay, I
better start working on this now. And I think that
that's important. I think it's really important to learn how
to do it. And you answer a question that I
can't answer, how he'll handle it because each guy is
going to handle it to a different level of expertise, Charlie.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
When I saw him at the combine, if I made
John one for out. When I saw Jackson at the
combine and I asked him, then, what did he think
he was going to work on before he got to
the pros? He mentioned footwork first, which obviously is something
that he has done based on what you've teln what
you've told us. The second thing that he said to
me was, I'd like to go through my progressions faster.

(17:43):
How do you work on that part of it as
you get into the pro game as a rookie before
you actually get the step on the field.

Speaker 6 (17:51):
Well, a lot of that is tape work too, because
there's two ways you teach quarterbacks would throw the ball to. Okay,
progression is one and coverage. As you all, there're two
now progression okay, you know literally, progression is one, two, three, four, five.

(18:16):
That's progression. Literally, okay. Coverage is your throw it to
the weakness of the coverage. Only the great ones can
do both. They throw progression based off of the coverage. Right,
So if there's a certain coverage that we go this, this, this,

(18:36):
If it's a different coverage, you go this, this, this.
Only the great ones could do that. I was blessed
to be around some people, one in particular. We're just
absolutely unbelievable. There'd be times where I watched a play
and say, why do you go there? And he goes, well,
I was covered for. I said I was covered too.
He goes, no, I was covered for. He never they

(18:57):
never ended up fully getting to it. And then I
go watch the next day, watch it tape. Sure enough,
you'd be right, you know, but he saw he saw
it happening before the play actually had a chance to
really develop, so that they actually got to get in
the coverage, but he'd be right ninety nine times out
of our hunt.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
All right, we talk about the quarterback developmental process, Charlie,
once they get into the pros, right, Joe Shane and
Brian Dave have already said Russell Wilson's going to start
at the start of the year, and they're going to
develop him in the spring and the summer. Then you
get in season, right when you're not gonna have a
ton of practice snaps. Maybe we'll run the practice squad.
Take me behind the scenes in that meeting room that
the fans and even us in the media don't see.

(19:38):
What is the quarterback developmental process like for a young
player when they aren't out there starting getting snaps? How
do you get them ready with that necessarily getting those
reps once the season starts?

Speaker 6 (19:49):
Okay, are you talking about during preseason or the start
during the start of the season.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think what once you get the regular season game
one is to me, when it gets tricky because you
aren't getting the reps you're getting, you know, during pre
season and in the summer and things like that.

Speaker 6 (20:04):
Yeah, Well, the quarterback coach, last quordinator, the only coach,
one guy, the only coach you guy was playing and
everyone else is sitting here and taking notes, taking notes
and asking questions when it's appropriate time to ask a question.
So let's say that Russ is the starter, because right

(20:24):
now he's been naming the starter. So they'll be coaching Russ.
But every I mean, Tommy Brady has booklets, Paul notes
that he took the first first year. He was our
fourth string quarterback, fourth string, but mentally he was preparing
like he's going to play that week. And I promise

(20:47):
you I've watched Jackson take notes. I watched it several times,
you know, because it was Lane, because of Charlie and Lane.
I would go there and I'd be sitting in the meetings,
so I would never say anything, you know, but I'd
be sitting in the meetings and I'd watch and i'd
watch because not taking was one thing I always I

(21:09):
was always observed to see who was writing things down,
who wasn't writing things down. I mean, here's another meticulous
note taker. So Jackson isn't going to prepare. He when
he goes there, he's going to say all the right things.
He's going to say all the right He is just
that guy. He is just that polished guy. He's the

(21:30):
type of guy that you that you want to eventually
be in a face ship program because he says all
the right thing. But Jackson isn't going there to be
a career backup. That is not even on his mind.
He's going there to be ready for whenever he's needed
to be ready to go, and he's not going to

(21:52):
be short changed by not preparing into classroom like he's
going to play that week.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
You know something different about this, though, Charlie is well. Again,
when I talked to him, he told me he had
been a starter everywhere he went, and you've already talked
about his leadership skills. This is going to be a
little odd for him now to have to be the
youngest guy in the room, the third string quarterback on
the team. And while he may be mature and a
leader and a sponge, this is certainly a different role

(22:21):
for him.

Speaker 6 (22:23):
To He's going to be a team guy. That's what
he's going to do. I mean, he knows the game.
He knows the game, so he knows that. You know,
you can't have multiple teams spokesman. I had that same
conversation with Paul Simms one time, just so you know.
I mean, we can go back to the big days
when the hosts that were Sims and who's going to

(22:45):
be the quarterback? And then they picked Hoss that way
and then things weren't going so well. And I said
to Simms, I said the Sims. I learned a lot
from this comment. I said to Simms, I said, why
don't you saying something when when you see something he
does when you're not the starting quarterback. It's not it's
not it's not your role to do that. It's not

(23:08):
your team. And I think Jackson will treat it the
same way. He'll be He'll do it with the younger guys.
He'll do with the guys who you know, are backups
who weren't playing. But he's not going to overstep his
bounds because there's a hierarchy and I think you have
to respect the hierarchy within an organisation.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
I guess this is kind of a two parter, but
you can attack it anyway you want. You mentioned you're
in the meetings. I'm curious what what what kind of
learner Jackson is? Is he more of like a read off
the board, I get it learner? Is he more of
a visual learner? And to that point you made about
learning how to do the progression reads. Is that something, Charlie,
that you can learn from doing film and board walk

(23:52):
just as much as you can learn from doing it
on the field when everything's going as fast as it
does in NFL game.

Speaker 6 (23:58):
Okay, let's start with the second part. You can learn,
you could learn to be better, but only certain ones
can learn to be great. Everyone can learn to be better.
That's what guess we're teaching and coaching is all about.
Everyone could learn to be better, but to be great,
you know, you got to. It's got to be something

(24:19):
within them. You know that they they get they get it.
You know, they're at a different level. And I watched him,
that's the level he's on now. Remember I was in college.
It wasn't for the New York Football Giants, but he
is on that level. I mean, he's insightful. He was
an idea guy. He'd asked if there was something that

(24:39):
that that he throw out ideas when they were doing ideas,
and you know, he could learn anything, but there'd be
times you say, well what about this? And Lane and
Charlie were very open to him making suggestions because he
had earned that right when he first started, they wouldn't

(25:01):
listen to him very much, you know, But as the
years went on, he became more and more, you know,
more and more involved, and then I know, Charlie gave
him a lot more latitude at the line of scrimmage,
you know, to change protections. You know, they did a
lot more seeing most college teams, the guys on the

(25:22):
sideline are doing all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah, they all look right and they hold the boards
up and then they do what they do right.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
But you know, he had the flexibility at least. But
by the time he got to year three, you know,
if he saw the line was going to the right
and actually he's coming from the left, he'd have no
problem going ahead and re directing the wine to go
ahead and take care of it.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Nice final one for me, Charlie.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
And we mentioned it a little bit earlier that he's
got the benefit of sitting behind two experienced NFL veterans,
guys who've done some stuff in this league before, and
he'll be a sponge just just in general going in.
How much better off is he to have those two
guys in the room, as opposed to being a rookie
who might be thrust into his rookie season very early

(26:08):
and being forced to play into the deep end of
the pool.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
My personal opinion on that subject is that any rookie
coming in that can play behind a season vet who's
been there, done that benefits.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (26:26):
I mean, that's that's you know, Hey, I want to
see Jackson on the field as fast as I can.
I mean, if Jackson started the first game for the
this year, it wouldn't bother me in the lease, but
it would mean that a series of circumstances would have
had to happen to get there. I think that every
quarterback coming in Now I'm watched, I watched, you know,

(26:49):
young guys play. I mean, and I mean how to
look for Bryce Young's first year. Yeah, I mean it
was a beatdown. Trevor Lawrence's first year, it was a
beat down. Peyton Manner his first year, it was a beatdown.
I mean, there's been guys that have gone in there
just been a beatdown. Now do you learn anything from that? Sure? Sure,

(27:12):
you learned. You learned stuff from learned stuff from that.
Caleb Williams last year, you learned. Do you learn stuff
from that? Absolutely you do. But then there's the guys
like Jayden Daniels that goes in there and lights it
up too. So I mean there's a two way street.
But in reality, I think historically you're so much better.
Tommy Brady was so much better off sitting behind Drew Bledsoe.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
All right, the final question of METROI then we'll wrap
this up. This has been awesome. Thank you so much
for the time you talk to Jackson. There's a lot
of yes, sir, super polite, really nice young man. But
to your point, I think it was in the first
answer you gave. He's got some wild horse in him too, right,
Like you watched the tape, he's trying to run over linebackers.
There's easy ways to run out of bounds to avoid

(27:59):
a hit. Instead he's getting lipped by safety. He's going
in the air. He looks like, uh, the old the
old John Elway taper. He's trying to go to touch down.
He does the helicopter in the air, right, So are
the giants eight? Will he be able to tame some
of that out of them? Out of him? And I
guess the second part is that how much of that
do you want to tame out of him? And take

(28:19):
some of that Gunslinger mentality out of him. If that's
what makes him special, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
Well, let me not you don't want to take much
of it out of him. I mean you want to
teach him, You want to give him the slide, you know,
take less hits, okay, but you don't want to take
it out of him. You know that's part of what
makes him him. And let me just tell you something
about this kid, now, you know, does he is he

(28:44):
that big personality. I think they're playing New York if
you're at the quarterback position, it's advantageous. It's advantageous to
be like that, to be the way he is, because
he knows the right things to say to the media.
He never he never points a finger. He always takes

(29:07):
the blame. He never takes the credit. I mean I
watched them for three years. Every single time when they
lose a game, not once would anyone else be taking
the blame like him. You know, Lane would do it too.
I mean that kid would get up there and he
wouldn't avoid the press, and he'd go to the press

(29:29):
and sit there and say, I let everyone down, I
let my teammates down, I let our fans down, you know,
like I mean, I watch this kid. I mean, there's
so many things, so many good things to say about
this kid. Not granted, he's coming in as a rookie
and he's got two veteran quarterbacks ahead of him, and
Tommy DeVito. You can't throw Tommy out out of it

(29:52):
just because Jackson's there. And you'll notice, you'll never hear
Jackson not mentioned Tommy DeVito too. He did off the bat.
He didn't just mention two guys, he mentioned three. Okay,
but that's who he is. And his teammates are going
to absolutely love this kid, okay. And you know, you

(30:15):
know the giant fans, they're all gonna be cynical by nature.
It's going to be the Jerseys to allow.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
It's New York, Charlie.

Speaker 6 (30:21):
Of course, it's actually not.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
It's New Jersey. Part of me. It's New Jersey. You're right, Yeah, don't.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Don't say New York to a Jersey guy like that.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
John. It's not nice New York. Have you seen the
New York area. I'm okay with that, okay, But I'm
trying to get him to move to the Jersey Shore.
But you know, I don't think he wants to make
that commute I used to make when I coached for
the Giants.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
He is the tan for it. I'll tell you that.

Speaker 6 (30:51):
He said he's from He's from Utah, and you think
he was off the beach from California. That's what.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
All.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
You're awesome. Tell the folks anything else that you want
them to know, either that you have going on or
anything else that maybe we missed.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
No.

Speaker 6 (31:07):
I think that, like I said, I only get to
be a fan once a week because my kid's down,
you know, at all, miss and I still have a
lot of affinity to a lot of people in the
Giant organization. And now we're Jackson there. It's going to
force me to have to put their game on every week,
you know, especially when he starts playing whenever that is now,

(31:30):
that might be you know, a year from that, you
know it might be, but I'll be pulling for him.
And I think that Giants fans should be very happy.
And I mean I felt that the Giants actually robbed this,
made a robbery on this pick. I mean to give

(31:52):
away your second and get a late three this year
and a three next year to go up and get
your quote back for the future. I thought it was
I thought it was a thing of beauty place shouldn't.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Well, Charlie, for all of our sakes, we all hope
you are correct. Thank you so much for the time,
longtime NFL assistant formernber name head coach, super Bowl champion,
Charlie Weiss. Just a fantastic interview. I think we learned
a lot going in. I didn't realize Paul that he
was allowed into the quarterback meetings with Jackson and ole Miss,
So I thought that was really good insight there, and

(32:28):
just a lot more that, you know, a lot more
of the same type of stuff we'd heard from people
that have talked about the kid heading into the twenty
twenty five NFL Draft. And look, Charlie Son coaches him,
so obviously he's going to be super positive about the kid.
We all know that. We all know that going in,
and we have to all understand that going in. But
for a guy that ran NFL offenses and was with
perhaps the greatest quarterback in all of all time, and

(32:49):
Tom Brady to speak so highly of the kid, I
think says something.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Well, two things John.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Number One, the positives that he gave us were consistent
with other positives we heard. Nothing there was out of
bounds or came out of the field. But then, like
you said, the fact that he sat in the meetings
with him, I did not expect to hear that. I
knew obviously with the connection through his son, he would
have detailed info about the player. But never, in my

(33:16):
wildest dreams did I expect to hear that he sat
in meetings and that Coach Kiffin would have allowed Charlie
Senior to be a part of those rooms. So when
I heard that, immediately, it enhanced everything that he said
about three or four times over because of the credibility factor,
knowing that he wasn't just going off his son's hearsay,
he was in the room seeing it and hearing it

(33:38):
for himself.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
All right, let's go to the phones at two one nine, three,
nine four or five one three Walter and Nebraska will
lead us off today. Hi, Walter, how are you?

Speaker 5 (33:47):
What was going on? Fellas? Hey, listen, I just I'll
be quick. I know there's probably a ton of guys
trying to call in. I just you know, I'm in
love with the draft. I just, you know, first off,
want to say that I think you know, Joe, Shane
and Dabo did a great job this year. I just
got like, you know, one quick question and a couple

(34:08):
of different comments. You know, I was just thinking, I
didn't know where or who would probably get more snaps at,
like linebacker, where it be TIBs or Carter. I just
didn't know what the type of front that we would
be running. How, you know, how would they employ to
get you know, Carter on the field more, or who

(34:30):
would they figure out would be better at Russian well Walter.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Honestly, honestly, real quick, I think they'll probably be close
to the same, you know. I think Thiblea will probably
start playing more early, Carter will gain and if he
starts playing really well, he could surpass him late. But
I think they'll probably try to equalize Burns, Thibodeau and
Carter as much as they can.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I agree with that, And to be honest with you,
because of the various pieces of talent that they've added
to the roster Carter, Golston, Ledbetter, Alexander where Arras, Robertson, Harris,
they've got the ability to truly mix things up. They
can use a variety of different looks that they could
not use last year because John they didn't have the

(35:10):
personnel to.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Do it correct.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
Yeah, you know, and you know, I think we're all
hoping for uh, you know, a better performance out of
the you know, Shane the DC, So that would be fine,
you know, Like I just you know, I just want
to see the you know, whatever's working for us, you know,

(35:34):
I guess, you know, as far as the quarterback position,
I was hoping for Milroe. I just think that you know,
we need are you know, with our division and all
them quarterbacks that we face. I was just thinking that,
you know, more of a dynamic quarterback. Now, don't get
me wrong. At you know, at the beginning of it,
I didn't want a quarterback at three. I was definitely

(35:56):
hoping for you know, Carter, you know, at three, and
and either mill Row or Dark I was I would
have been fine with Milrow or Dart. And I guess
I just I want to say that I definitely could
recognize that Dart is a way more efficient passer than
mill Row for for the quarterback spot. And I you know,

(36:18):
I guess that, you know, if anything, I would want
my quarterback to be an efficient passer and just you know,
always have to put himself at risk running like mill
Roe would. But I just think that you know that
that mill Roe is such a dynamic if we could
get you know, get him on the field being an
efficient passer would have been way more of a dynamic

(36:41):
quarterback in our division. But you know, and I think, uh,
you know, yesterday there was a previous caller that had
you know, and and and I understand that, you know,
we we have to put the best face on forward.
But you know, the guy was saying at this organization,

(37:02):
will it's hard to move on from from certain players,
which I totally agree with his perspective. It's like, you know,
you know that I think it was up until a week,
like maybe two weeks before preseason last year. Uh, you know,
these guys tried to sell us on the tackle the
whole time. Oh, he's just hurt him as soon as

(37:23):
he comes back in. It was like they did just
did not want to And.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
I think, wait, the guy I lost what what player
you're talking about?

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Neil Yes, Evan Neil we We It was up until
maybe like two weeks before preseason that they didn't want
to move off of him just when he comes back,
when he he's just working on rehab, but he'll be
They just they were holding that spot and no.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
No, no, no, no, hold on, hold on. I want
to make sure you got some clarity here. Illuminor took
the right tackle spot during the course of the preseason
and then training camp. He took that spot in the
spring for that matter, Yes, and he and that was
his job. Nobody told anybody that Neil was going to
come back and take his job. What was said is
that Neil, as he rehabs and gets healthier, is going

(38:13):
to continue to work at right tackle behind the Luminore.
Nobody said that.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah, I think honestly, I'll be honest with you. If
you would have asked Paw and I, if you had
asked Pawnee at the end of July, like right when
camp was starting, who we thought would be the starting
right tackle week one, we would have told you it
was Germaine Lumini. And I don't think we would have
had much doubt about that. I think I did. Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
I don't remember it that way. Like I said, I
could be wrong, but I don't remember it that way.
I just remember. It's just that, you know, they were
holding the spot for Neil and a LUMINOI was just
filling in they was just oh yeah, you know, we
got to have a body there and he was filling
in and so then you know, then then they then
they like they was just like, no, it's just not working.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Out, okay. And here's what you may remember.

Speaker 5 (38:57):
Before before training and being you know, I just you know,
the crazy thing man is. And I think Charlie just
really was trolling you yesterday.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
I think he was. I know I fell for it.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
Yeah, I think he really just U said, mean, there's
no way you could just be upset with this draft
man and how they did it. And and to me,
it's like, you know, like, okay, if Darter is going
to be the guy, and I was really Lance, Lance
hit an excellent point. If we could just be proficient
enough to be you know, in and out of the

(39:34):
season valiant for a playoff spot, that's way better than
the last ten to fifteen years that I mean ten years,
like seven years that we've had for you see what
I'm saying for this, So the efficiency at the quarterback spot,
you know, I think that that that's just a wealth,

(39:54):
uh you know, a big, a big prosperity for us
as Giants fans, just because we just haven't had that
we haven't played competitive football at all the last couple
of years, so you know, I mean, I would say
besides the year we went to the playoffs, yes, that
that was exciting to see. I actually went to the
game in Minnesota as well. But you know, it just

(40:17):
it just wasn't you know.

Speaker 8 (40:19):
It was like we we barely screeched by or all
of the games that we that we won that year.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
And it come on, tell me you didn't have fun
that season?

Speaker 3 (40:27):
No, no, But his point is that his point is
that they won a lot of close games. He did, Walter,
Walter was, well, real quick, before you hang up, you're
in Nebraska, so I'm sure you've seen some Thomas Fidoni
played tight end with the corn Oskars. Give me your
scating report on Fidoni a tight.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
End, geez Broers, and I don't don't ask me. I
can't stand the Husks, all of them. And these people
are just nuts out here about the Huskers and the
year bowl games and this is their years.

Speaker 8 (40:57):
I just.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Thank you, Walter. I appreciate it that you're.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
I mean, just you know, from the highlight sayings, he
loves pretty athletic. You know, I'm just whatever, and the
crop that rise to the top. That's all I'm about.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Cool Walter, appreciate the call man. Your phone's kind of
craping out a little bit there at the end, but
good stuff. Appreciate it all right. A couple of things
on what you said, is Jackson Dart dynamic running the
ball the way Jill Milroe is, No, he is not.
Nobody is nobody is not from this draft. I mean
you might not have running backs in this draft class
that whereas dynamic running the ball is Jiylan Mirrow. That's
how like he's a plus like Lamar Jackson level running ability.

(41:37):
He's a monster. But if you look at the rest
of the guys, Paul, I'm trying to think of the
other quarterbacks. What other quarterback would you say, for sure
has a better running tool than Dark does from this class?

Speaker 2 (41:54):
I don't think there is one.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Maybe Riley Leonard. I think think Dart's Leonard's more physical.
I mean Leonard would just, you know, put his shoulder
down and run the quarterback power. Dart will do that too, yes,
but Leonard was a little bigger.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
Yes, Yes, I I think that Dart probably if you
just were going to grade these quarterbacks on legs and
mobility and certainly escapability. I would go with Dart right
right after Milrow. But you know, ultimately, and again I understand,
I think we talked about this last week. John Milroe

(42:31):
to me, if you draft him, any team that were
to take him, and obviously he eventually did go a
couple of couple of rounds he was by the way,
I think is a nice fit for him. You have,
you have Sam Darnold there, he's under contract for a
couple of years.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
He can develop behind him. I think it's an I
think I'm happy he found a good spot where they'll
use him as a weapon and then he can develop
as well. Yeah, I think right out of the box
he'll get a package.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh, he will get a package, and they.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Stupid not to give the pack.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
They will have gadget plays for Milroe right out of
the box in Seattle. There's no doubt in my mind
about that. And so let me just cut off everybody
at the pass. The first time Milrod takes an RPO
on a third and fifteen for Seattle and run sixty
five yards for a touchdown, I don't want to get
a phone call saying, see, Milroe should have been the

(43:17):
guy don't because that's the kind of gadget quarterback play
he is going to be able to give the Seahawks
at least initially.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah, I'd say Howard and Leonard Paul would be the
two other guys. Just Howard coul run a little bit,
I would have some ability. He did, But I think
Dart is probably a little bit ahead of those two guys.
I would think, I would think. I think so Shuck
might actually be faster in a straight line, but Shuck
arun like a forty four to seven six at the
combine something.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Like that, But it's not the same when you're playing.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Well, no, and well it's funny. I didn't go back
and watch the Texas Tech tape. Phil Simms told me
he did. That's Phil, And apparently they've used him as
like a design runner at Texas Tech Tyler Schuck and
then once he like broke his collar bone for the
second time, I think the enough enough. But apparently he
was a design run guy at Texas Tech. So I
think he's actually a pretty Gathley. But look, he's right there.

(44:08):
Whichever one of those four guys you think has the
best running tool, he's there, right there behind uh, behind
shod or standers. And then real quick on the Evandeild
thing last year, guys, look we we we said the
whole reason you bring in and we were talking about
Michael and when you before free agency hit and then
because I said, look, you want a guy that can
be there at right tackle if Evan Neil doesn't get back,

(44:30):
and you'll feel good about it. And then the lumin
Or is basically the same guy, just at a lesser
price point. Right, And once Neil tried to come back
in the spring wasn't able to do it, they had
to send him back down again. It became pretty clear
heading at the camp that a Luminar was going to
be the guy and unless something happened to him, you know,
Neil didn't. He didn't start practicing until what the third

(44:52):
week of camp, Yeah, woorth week of camp.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
And he got some reps at the very end of preseason,
but not a whole lot.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
No, he only played in one of the games, that's it. So,
and he didn't do the joint practices either, if I
remember correct.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
No, So to be frank, uh, not only did Illuminars
seize the role.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
He was starting right tackle, he might have did the
joint practice against the Jets. Neil, I think he might
have did that one, but he didn't do the first one.
I think he might have done the Jets.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I don't recall.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
I don't remember, but I was only one.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
But the point being, once a lumin or seized control
of that job, and it certainly was a very real
possibility from the get go. He never let it go,
and I don't think he's letting it go this year either.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah, No, I don't think he is either. I'd be
very surprised. I think Neil has a shot. I mean,
we'll see where they work him. They've been a little
cagy about where he's going to work guard and tackle.
But look, I said it again, I'll say it again.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think
Evan Neil, with his skill set, has a real chance
to be a pretty good NFL guard. I really, do
you know, with the with the side to side mobility

(45:53):
range and stuff like that tackle, with all the leg
injuries he's had, that might. I'm not sure we're going
to get there at this point, least not in this year,
but wait and see. Who knows. But I think tools wise,
there's no reason with his power that he cannot play
guard well at the NFL level. There's no reason for that,
in my opinion at least, And.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
There are several options at the guard spot right now
on this wast So somebody's got to step forward.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yep, all right, let's go to Ron in Pittsburgh. He's
up next, Ron. What's going on?

Speaker 7 (46:23):
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thanks.

Speaker 7 (46:26):
I've got two questions here, one on the Giants offense
and one on scouting brand. Regarding the offense, well, this
has to do with Jackson Dart as well. So the
deficiency in his game that I've read multiple times is
that he's not the great processor, where if he first

(46:46):
read of a receiver is an open, he'll tuck the
ball and scramble, which isn't a bad thing. In college,
it clearly worked for him.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah, run and Ron' on, you're right, by the way.
I'm not going to argue with that, but I think
and this is the same thing with Caleb Williams last
year at US. In those very collegiate schemed up systems,
a lot of times they'll have a play designed and
it's not really a full field read and it's just
all right, well, no target that safety. If he does this,
you throw it to this guy. If he does that,

(47:12):
you throw it to the other guy. And if neither
of those are open, sometimes you know have much of
a choice but to run. Now, there were some plays
in college. If you go through the Dart tape, you
know closely enough. And Joe Shane said this to Paul
and I on our YouTube interview with him that also
showed up in the Johnson podcast that if you look
hard enough, there is some full field progression stuff. It
just doesn't happen that often. You don't see it every play,
you don't see it that often, so if you look

(47:34):
hard enough, you can find it. But I agree with
you that's something that you need to see more consistently
on the NFL level. And that's why I had him
as the second round guy too, because I think you
just don't know how much some of that stuff that
Kiffen and Charlie Wise Junior schemed up for him will
translate to an NFL often.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
I think the two things important to note about this
is that number one, Dart said at the combine the
two things that he knows he's got to get better
at is the footwork, knowing the behind center was going
to be something he had not done. And then the
second thing was he said he had to get through
his progressions faster to your point, because he hadn't done
enough of it.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
Now the key there is that it's not like we
know he can or cannot do it. It's that he
hasn't done it very much. I'll go back to it,
so it's an unknown.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
I'll go back to what Kurt Water said to me
on the Giants huddle. I'm trying to get Kurt on
to talk about Jackson the next couple of weeks. Haven't
set that up yet, but I'm trying. He said to
me on the interview I did with him last year
talking about the quarterbacks. Don't knock a quarterback for something
that you're not sure he was asked to do. And
I don't know how much he was asked to do
that stuff Ron, So that is definitely no question about it.

(48:38):
A wait and see proposition. I'm sorry for interrupting you,
please finish your point.

Speaker 7 (48:42):
No, No, that's okay. That actually leads into the next
part of my question, which which, for quick little background,
I remember watching a lot of the games last year,
and the color commentator or whoever I was, you know,
announcing the game said that, you know, that was a
great play design, the receiver was open, it was a
misthrow by the quarterback, or the receiver was open and
the offensive line didn't hold up. So my question, I

(49:03):
guess is specific to the New York Giants offense and
the fact that with receivers getting open seemingly easily, is
that deficiency or that processing part of Jackson Dart's game?
Is that going to be like minimized because we have
so many receivers that get open or like, is that
something the coaching staff may be identified as not that

(49:26):
big of a deal because of the way the play
design happens, and that our receivers tend to get open
with some separation of more than other teams, it seemed
like to me or am I just totally wrong there?

Speaker 3 (49:36):
I think that's a good question, Ron, given I don't
think you know, the Giant wide receivers are running wide
open more than any other teams. I think that's just it.
It is what it is. But as a quarterback, you
still have to anticipate where the open player is going
to be based on what the defense shows you. And
I think this is where you get more experience in

(49:56):
the NFL. Right, what Jackson are the more? I'm sorry both,
it's both and and you literally beat me to the point.
So pre snap you have to see what the defense
is in. You get your initial read. And again I've
never played quarterback before, but this is how I understand
how it happens. You get your pre snap read. All right,
I think they're gonna be in this coverage based on
down a distance, where the guys are aligned. This is

(50:18):
if they're in that what I think they're in, I'm
gonna call my protection, shift my guys around if there's
what's coming, things like that, and then this is where
I'm probably gonna go with the ball. That's the pre
snap part of it. So yes, that I think will
carry over because in college you're doing the same thing.
You're seeing what the defense is given you pre snap
and you decide where to go with the football. The
change and the difference is going to be once the

(50:39):
ball is snapped, because in the NFL, very rarely is
do what they show you pre snap ends up being
exactly what they're in once the play gets going. So
what gives these college quarterbacks and I'm not being specific
to Jackson here, being this is all college quarterbacks. Once
you start in what you're starting in and then you know,
you might start in with a single high staatee safety,

(51:00):
but then the safety sprints back. You're in a Cover
two or you start in a Cover four shell and
the safety comes down hard and you're in Cover one
or Cover three and that safety goes into flat or
on the robber spot, something like that. And that's the
key here. Ron The quarterback then, based on what the
defense shows post snap and how they move around, then
has to know where to find that open receiver. If

(51:23):
the receiver's open, but the quarterbacks looking in the wrong
spot at the wrong time, he's going to be covered
by the time the quarterback gets to him because guys
don't stay open that long in the NFL. That's just
the way the league works. So it's still very important
for based on what and this is really the whole
key of playing the quarterback position, Right, where do I
go at the ball based on what my play design

(51:46):
is versus what the defense is in that will dictate
where you throw the ball and when you throw the ball.
So you still have to properly combine those two factors
to know where to look to find the open guy.
And the quarterbacks that do that most consistently. And Charlie
White said in the interview too, right, Yeah, those are
the quarterbacks that end up being great well, and that's

(52:07):
what all these guys have to watch.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
The great ones take it to a third level because
they're able to understand the disguise. That's what it comes
down to. It's not just the pre snap and it's
not just the routes, and it's not just the play
that was called and how that all mixes together like
a meat loaf. It's now, how do you discern the
disguise which is happening as the play is alive. That's

(52:30):
where you now go to the next level. And He's
cided Tom Brady how many times in our conversation.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, where Tom, in the middle of the game, Charlie
would think the defense was in like a cover four,
And Brady will come to the sound and say, no, coach,
he was in a cover three. And Charlie will be like,
all right, whatever, I'll look at the table lair. Then
he will look at the table later Brady was right
they were in a cover three, So that's all part
of ron the tough. The thing that I find really
hard to evaluate when you scout quarterbacks, and the way

(52:57):
I like to talk about it is how much they're
able to slow the game down while for us it's
going in a million miles per hour. But can what
can they take what's on the field going really fast,
slow it down in their mind to the point where
they can accurately see what's going on, process it, make
a decision, and then follow through in that decision, and

(53:21):
that four step process happens at about a half a second.
Like that's what's tough for us to judge if a
guy can do that well. And that's what the Giants process.
And they talk about their quarterback process right again, folks,
if you even watch it, go to the Giants YouTube
page Giants Little Podcast watch interview Paul and I did
with Joe Shane and Joe Shane talks about the ringer
they put these quarterbacks drough with Brian Dabele and Sha

(53:44):
Tyranny and Mike Kafka. In terms of trying to figure
out that exact part of it. How quickly can the
adjustings on the fly you know. Do you understand not
just the exss of a play. Do you understand the
concept of the play, why you're going where you're going when,

(54:05):
why you're going to one receiver over the other, Beau.
If you understand the concept, then you're able to adjust
when the defense shows you something or gives you something
that you're not expecting. If all you understand is all right,
on this play, I'm watching the weak sideline backer. If
he goes into the flat, I'm throwing it to the
tight end curl. If he covers the curl, I'm going

(54:26):
to the running back in the flat. Okay, that's great,
and it's got to be done like that, right, But
here's the problem. If the defense showed you something completely
different and that guy's not even in the right spot
on defense, then you don't know what else to do
on the play. But if you understand the concept of
the play, you can naturally go to the next thing
and still make it work. So that's what that ringer
that they put the quarterbacks through RON is designed for

(54:48):
them to be able to figure out RON.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
That's not even the worst part, as hard as all
of that is, And once you get done digging through
all of that. Now you've got receivers who don't run
the right route and the ball goes awry or the
ball gets intercepted, and everybody's saying, oh, that was a
terrible throw. Well, maybe the quarterback did everything that he
was supposed to do, or but the receiver didn't read

(55:11):
it right and he was the one who screwed up.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Everyone does everything right, but the defense is so good.
Everyone's covered anyway, they made a play and and then
then you have to throw it to the right leverage.
You have to throw a receiver open when covered. It's
it's there's a reason why it's the toughest position in sports.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Bingo bingo ten times over. That's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (55:29):
Yeah, that's that's a lot to go through for sure.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Indeed you get you get two point five seconds to
do it.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
And by by the way, Ron, that's why when when
people call up and I see people, you know, fans
writing on or not even fans, even reporters sometimes writing
on the internet about well, you know, this guy read
this play wrong and the process unbelievable. I I I
kind of just roll my eyes and I'm like, guys,
there's no way for us, you know, layman's to know.

(55:59):
Like if a four NFL quarterback wants to tell me
how this was to read a playout, I'll listen to
them as they know what they're talking about. But there
are enough. There are too many people out there that think,
because they're really good at like Madden twenty twenty three,
that they know how to like read out NFL defenses
and like where to go with the football. So it
is what it is.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
There was one year Eli threw about twenty something to
interceptions and twenty thirteen right, and I can't remember exactly
what year it was now, but that year I had
gone back and I had, through my conversations with coaches
and players, I had been able to discern that nine
of the interceptions were on the wrong routes run by

(56:35):
the wide receivers and they weren't on.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Eli at all.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Twenty thirteen, he through twenty seven, twenty teny through twenty five.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, it was the previous one.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
I mean, you know, nine of them because the receiver
actually butchered the route and got Eli Picke and run
by the way.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
All the stuff we just talked about and really good call,
and trust me, we'll let you finish your second point,
But I thought it was important to get through all this.
This is why Kyle quarterbacks and need time to develop
all this stuff we just talked about, you know, and
in college guys have two or three yards of separation,
they're easier throws. In the NFL, just having your shoulder

(57:14):
eight inches in front of the defender that's considered open.
So that's why it takes quarterbacks for the most part,
so long to develop at the pro level. And by
the way, one of the reasons Jaye n Daniels developed
so quick last year. Look whose offensive coordinator was. He
put a lot of those college concepts into the offense
so he would be and to his great job by

(57:36):
Cliff Kingsbury to do that awesome job, and he was
able to pick up a lot of that stuff quickly.
So that all that together. That's the quarterback spiel. You
can keep going on that, or if you have a
second point, you can get to that too.

Speaker 5 (57:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (57:49):
I do have a quick second point, and it's it's
basically I loved all the all the interviews that you
did with you know, gms and college scouts and things
like that, but have you ever asked one of them
or or heard about how they evaluate their evaluation process, like, oh, man,
I can't believe he missed this guy in the third round.

(58:10):
You know, where did we go wrong? Why didn't we
have him on our board? You know higher up? So
I was just curious if you had anybody, you know,
talk about how they just go back and evaluate their process.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
No, absolutely wrong.

Speaker 6 (58:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have four to put more stock.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Thank you, Ron appreciate the call. Man, good stuff. All right, Yeah, look,
and they'll do that. Joe Shane talked about it. I
forget one of these press conference he's talked about it. I
remember which one. They'll go back and they'll look at
the guys last year. Well, we had this guy in
round three. He played like a round one player. Why
did we have him in the first round? You know,
this guy we had as a second round player, but
he looked like a fifth round player. Why would why
did how did we miss on that? And then they

(58:47):
try to go back adjust their evaluation process to make
sure they don't That makes that make that mistake again. Look,
sometimes the mistakes medical. Sometimes it could be filmwork. Sometimes
it could be bad inform me whos whatever it can be.
But they will evalue weight their process to make sure
they don't make those same mistake again.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
If you want more detail, every scout has a specific
report that they have to write. Every report goes through
a double check and a regional scout and a supervising scout.
Those guys will then add to their notes with.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
The Giants is an area scout International exactly, that's what
they're called.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
And so they will go through these different levels of
scouting processes. So now every guy has his scouting report,
which is based on the actual tape or the actual
eyewitness game accounts. There's that, then there's the medical, Then
there's the psychological, the testing, the interviews.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
And all that stuff goes to a nice thick folder. John,
a nice thick folder.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
I think most of it. Technically it is in a computer.
It's probably electronic.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yes, it's in a computer.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Yes, it's an electronic computer that has a big folder. Okay,
so here's what happens now after after X number of years.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
All right, they'll they'll go through each guy every year.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
But but they will also go back and say, okay,
for example, such and such player was with us for
three years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
He did not pan out at all.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
It just did not work let's go back, open up
that file and see what did we write on the
report about him? What did he do that matched the report?
What did he not do that did not match the report?
And okay, now, is that because he just didn't develop,
he didn't have the heart or the desire to learn,

(01:00:32):
the coaching staff didn't bring out the best in him?
Or was our process flawed? Were we looking at were
we looking for something here that we thought proved a
certain element of his game And it turns out we
shouldn't have been looking at that particular area because that
didn't really translate into the production of this player. We

(01:00:52):
need to change our requirement or change what we're looking
at in the player.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
And this goes on all the time. Yeah, and you
also learn by the way, which one of your scouts
are better at scouting which position?

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yes, no question.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
The Giants had a scout here for a long time,
Jeremia Davis. Right, he was here for a long time,
so great at scouting defensive backs, that was his thing. Yep,
And he's retired now. He was here for a long time,
great scout. And you learn what the strengths and weaknesses
of your scouting staff are, right, and you, then you know,
maybe you're gonna have one scout cross check all the

(01:01:25):
defensive tackles because he's really good at scouting defensive tackles. Right,
So now you learn that about your staff as you
go along as well. All Right, we're already passed one thirties,
so let's get the James and Pennsylvania. He'll wrap up today. James,
what do you got for us? Man? Thanks for calling in.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
Two points?

Speaker 8 (01:01:40):
Can you all like elaborate on just for like two
three five minutes on the Smith that the Giants blue
for the draft because they said they've all had dark
pick in January and all that smoke was brung through
the whole NFL that we was going pick you know who.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
And that was my first point.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
We'll talk about that a little bit them, Okay, And
what's your second point?

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
Yeah, I'm just sad about uh Simmons.

Speaker 8 (01:02:07):
I thought he was going to be the key to
the defense, but I guess not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Thank you, James, appreciate the call. All right, Paul, why
don't you give the Simmons spield because you're you're one
of the cat.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Hu huge Isaiah Simmons fan. He never found a home
in this scheme. It just never worked out for him,
by the way, that second time now because it happened
in Arizona two.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
With most with how many defensive corners in Arizona three too. Yeah,
he's probably at least four d season now. I was
going to say, yeah, I think he's had at least four.
And so he goes to Green Bay. Apparently that's the
word that we saw on the internet. And I wish
him well. I I don't understand it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
I've always thought that his primary focus should be as
a blitzer. You'd want to scheme him up to give
him an opportunity to shoot a gap or to shoot
an edge. He never got that real opportunity to do
that on a on a regular basis while he was
with the AID. I feel bad about it, but I'll
pull for him and I hope he does well for

(01:03:03):
Green Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
As for the quarterback thing, Dabele did not have him
picked in January. I don't know where you read that.
I don't know what reports you're referring to. That's nonsense.
I literally just talked to Brian Dable. Do you know
when Brian Dables starts scouting quarterbacks and seasons for the
first time the Senior Bowl. You know when that event
takes place the last week of January and you have
like a fifteen minute meeting with these guys at the

(01:03:25):
Senior Bowl. He's not drafting, he's not recommending to draft
Jackson dore at to fifteen minutes of the Senior Ball.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
How could you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
I always be careful about rumors that are out there.
This is why Paul and I tell you guys that
take all these reports out there with a grain of salt.
So I would say that James is something to use,
as you know, talk about lessons that scouts kind of
learn every draft about who you like and who you're
right and wrong about. Jaul and I the same as
a fan, take reports early in the draft process about
who likes who with a gigantic grain of salt. You

(01:03:54):
don't know anything until the coaches get involved, and usually
you don't have their reports and on players until at
at the earliest is at the combine. And we've talked
about the process the Giants go through with these quarterbacks.
There's no way Brian Davile would have been sold on
a quarterback until we had him face to face for
the private workout. The thirty visit and the in person meeting,

(01:04:14):
and that's when he's going to make that decision. You
talk about the smokeless Shore Sanders. There's a chance off
the tape on January fifteenth, that maybe the Giants did
really love Shore Sanders, right, and then you finished never No,
that's only part of the scouting process, correct, Then you
finish the rest of the scouting process. Guys in the

(01:04:35):
process matters. That tapes the basis of everything. If the
guy can't play in games, it doesn't matter, right, But
if there's not that much separating the tape for some positions,
the athleticism at the combine matters, right. But for quarterbacks specifically,
I don't want to go through the whole process again

(01:04:56):
because we talked about it yesterday and we did with
the Joe Shane interview again. But the thirty visit, the
private workout, the board work and the video work that
the quarterbacks do with Dave's when he gets the full
day with them and he puts them through that ringer
that Joe Shane and I that Joe Shane described the
PAW and I in our interview, that stuff for quarterbacks

(01:05:19):
matters immensely because it teaches you about whether or not
they can do all the mental gymnastics necessary to succeed
at the position the stuff. Then when you just watch
them on tape all it's impossible to see.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I think what people need to understand. And I know
that the media gets very carried away with who goes
to what pro day, who goes to what visitation, what
guy is coming to the complex or a visit. I
understand all of that, but there's an implication.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
And by the way, thirty visits do matter the Giant Joe,
that's sixty guys that had dirty visits.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
So but here's the point. If the reports are correct,
there's an implication in the media that when they're spending
time on a guy, they're spending time on him because
they want him. That's the wrong implication. What they're doing
is they're spending time on the guy because they're trying
to do more research to find out either a should

(01:06:15):
they want him or should they not want him?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
You know what, you know, this is the way I'm
gonna put up. That's the problem. This is how I'm
gonna put Sometimes that's a negative. When any regular human
being goes out to interview, interview, for a job, right,
the equivalent of your resume on paper. That's the game film.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Mm hmm, that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Your resume is why they put on tape, including your stats.
That's your resume. Mm hm oh. Let me ask you something.
Do any companies hire an a port employee just based
off their resume? Or do they bring him in? Do
they talk to them? Do they see it to the
right person. Do they see if they have the right
personality to fit the culture. Do they see that you

(01:06:57):
can problem solve the way that job might make you
a problem? Can you multitask the way the job requires
in that position? The multitask. That's what the interview process
is for. That's what the Senior Bowl is. That's what
the combine is. That's what thirty visits are. And go
read Albert Breer's story last week and this week about

(01:07:17):
just the player you brought up, should Or Sanders and
the issues he had in the interview process. Tony Pauline
talked about it on our fan show on Sunday and
on Draft Season. The AFC one is coming out this
week and he is. He goes three minutes Pierson just
on everything that happened during the interview process. It's up
already on everything that again now with the Giants, specifically
from what he heard from teams around the league about

(01:07:38):
should Or's interview process. And that's all those things he
didn't throw at any of the All Star games. You
heard the stories of the meetings. Like Albert Breer two
anecdotes in his story today. One where a lot of
times what teams will do to see how quarterbacks react
when they meet at the combine, they'll cueue up what
are their worst plays from the year, an interception, right,

(01:08:00):
And again I'm just going off of Albert Brier's story.
This is not me confirming and it's very well, by
the way, very very well. I'm not confirming this. I'm
not saying this happen with the Giants. I'm just literally
reading you verbatim what was said in the story. And
the team had a bad should Or interception queued up
comes in, they show it to him, He doesn't take
any blame for the play. They kind of get into

(01:08:22):
a more and then he basically says to them, well,
maybe we're not the best fit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Like that's when you that's not a good way to
approach things. As I said, another team sent him an
install on offense. Again. This is according to Albert Brier.
If the story is correct and it had purposeful errors
in there that should have been easy for a quarterback
to pick.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Up, and he couldn't figure them out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
And he got in and he didn't notice any of
the errors. They confront Maybe is the wrong word, but
they pointed out he missed those mistakes. And they didn't
get into the details of what happened, but they said
the following exchange was not pretty. I believe that was.
I think not pretty is the terminology I used. And
guys stuff like that, especially if you know you're gonna

(01:09:07):
pick them, you know, day one, you can overlook some
of that stuff. If the guy is some kind of
you know, freak show athletically and has all these ridiculous trades,
you can look past some of that stuff. But when
you're considering him as a second round player or a
third round player, that stuff matters. You're choosing a team

(01:09:27):
so many different guys. And finally, I'll just say this,
this happens to Paw and I at the combine every
year we've talked about it. Peerson asked me this question
right before he came on the show. When we show
up to the combine, we have certain impressions of players.
When we leave the combine, we have very different impressions
of player, Yes we do, and it has nothing to
do with what we see in their workouts. Correct, going

(01:09:49):
into the combine, and we always tell you to ignore
the mock drafts before you get to the combine. We
always tell you that, and frankly before free agency because
then that's when needs are important. Right. So everything you
see in terms of player rankings and mock drafts pre combine.
And I'll say there's some exceptions to this, like Dame
Bruler talks to people like he knows, Like the guys

(01:10:11):
that do only draft and draft only, they'll be on
top of the stuff before you get to Indie.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
There are different category, correct, but most.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Regular people won't you get there. Everyone was talking about
Shador is a top three pick and he was right
next to cam Ward. It could go either way. That
was the public discourse when you left Indy. The story
was cam Ward stood alone as the top quarterback and
Shador was closer to the second group than he was
to cam Ward. That's not the media changing their minds.

(01:10:41):
Folks catching media catching up to what the NFL teams
already think. And I think, and Tony brought this up,
one of the problems is that Sharro Sanders did not
hire an agent, so you did not have somebody in
that room who's getting honest feedback from teams to a

(01:11:02):
just storing the process. And I think for him that
was unfortunate. I'm happy he got to a spot where
he's gonna have a chance to compete for a job.
It's wide open. You know, James, you called before. The
Giants should have drafted him late. I don't think it
would have worked here because they used the first round
pick on Jackson Dart. In Cleveland, you have Flacco there,
they traded nothing for Kenny Pickett. Dylan Gabriel is a

(01:11:22):
third round pick, and then you add him into the
mix as a true competition. That's a competition that's different
than what the Giants have in their room. I think
he has a chance to win that job.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Then it's a lot different than if Giants.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
If he figures that, if he gets his head together,
and look, he's a good kid, He's a smart kid
by all accounts. If he puts his head down, works hard,
avoids the nonsense. He has a chance to win that job,
and I hope he does. I hope he's successful. I
don't wish any ill will towards him. But look, the
bottom line is now he's gonna finally get his feet
on some grass. He's gonna compete, he's gonna have a

(01:11:55):
chance to earn that starting quarterback spot, and I hope
he manages to do it for his sake, because I
want all these guys to succeed, I really do. I
want all these guys to succeed.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
To cap this for the caller. When you go through
the process, there are players who will actually wind up
knocking themselves off a team's board. There are other guys
who will wind up knocking themselves down a team's board. Correct, Okay,
just because a team is spending a lot of time
doing their homework on a player, do not assume it

(01:12:26):
is all going to turn out positive for that player
and they are going to salivate trying to get him.
Sometimes it's going to cause him to drop. Sometimes it's
going to cause him to get crossed off. Please understand
that I say it every spring, and it's different for
every team, by the way, of course it is, but

(01:12:47):
you have to acknowledge that that's a real possibility. That
downside is very real. I don't know why I got
to keep screaming it from the mountains every single spring. Well,
I understand, be people have espnot and they believe the hype.
They buy the hype, and they buy the overwhelming positivity.
So and so talk to so and so. They got
a half right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Anyway, that's it for now.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
And again, and most of this, a lot of this,
some of the pre draft interview stuff, you could put
that on the player. But some of the stuff with
you know, with his name and everything, that's not even
Shu or Sanders's fault that got foisted onto him by
people on the outside. So a lot of that stuff's
not even on him. It's not his fault and all.
And we hope he succeeds. We hope he has a
nice career, and hopefully when the Giants play the Browns
next he will be the starting quarterback. I hope that'll

(01:13:29):
be great for him, and I hope he has a
has a very successful career. There, guys, thanks for being
with us, Thanks to Charlie Weiss. That'll go up on
YouTube later on today. I'm sure Pearson will get a
tease from that too, which should be good. A lot
of great stuff from Charlie on Jackson Dart. Make sure
you go check out all of our other podcasts the
two parts of draft season. Our Draft review is up there.
We're gonna compile all of the player interviews done over
the weekend with Mandelin and Shott O'Hara, and those will

(01:13:52):
go up there I think early tomorrow morning, and then
later this week we got a bunch of guys coming
to a Ryan Wilson, who does great job covering the
draft for CBS, he'll come up. I'm starting to get
some college coaches for some of these players. That's gonna
go up over the course in the next couple of weeks.
I hope to have a couple of former NFL quarterbacks
come on too and talk a little bit about Jackson
Darna what they saw on tape with him. So a
lot of stuff coming away in the GIHNS, Little Podcast,

(01:14:14):
Giants dot Com, slash podcast, Giants app, Giants YouTube channel.
Check it out. Good job Johnny, Matt, good job Pearson.
We'll see you tomorrow twelve thirty for another episode of
Big Blue Kickoff Live from the Hackensack, Meride Health podcast,
studio keep getting better.

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Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/29 | Charlie Weis on Jaxson Dart

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/29 | Charlie Weis on Jaxson Dart