Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/7 | Bill Polian Joins the Show

John Schmeelk and Lance Medow are joined by former NFL General Manager, and Pro Football Hall of Fame, Bill Polian. They discuss different draft strategies, the top prospects, and best fits for the Giants.

:00 - Bill Polian joins the show

11:50 - Quarterback chat

21:00 - Non-QBs at the top of the draft

34:30 - Colorado Pro Day

46:40 - Draft strategies

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
We're Old Taffy, part of the Giants podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's go on Dogs, Happy Monday. Everybody.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome to the Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac,
the official luxury vehicle of the New York Football Giants.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
John Schmuck Lance Meta with you.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Welcome to everybody listening on the Giants app as well
as on YouTube. Today we're gonna have former NFL general
manager and multi Super Bowl champion Bopoleon joining us in
just a little bit.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Always love talking draft and draft strategy and how an
NFL team approaches a draft with Bill Lance.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
How are you? I'm doing well? How about yourself doing well?

Speaker 3 (00:56):
It seems like the news over the weekend, based on
cams of workouts and such, that the Titans are pretty
locked in on camp Ward here, So I think we
can stop talking about that as the possibility as a
trade up for.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Him falling to the Giants. At three. Yeah, it seems
as if after they canceled their workouts are one on
ones with Trador Sanders and Travis Hunter, that it seems
that they pretty much have settled down on who they're
going to select at the number one spot, which is
not a surprise.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Okay, now we're going to bring in Super Bowl winning
longtime general manager.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Of the Bills the Colts.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
He is Bill Pollion, who you can also hear him
on Sirius XM NFL Radio. Had him on the car
on the way coming into work today. Listen to him
with Sama Wilcott's on Sirius XM. Bill, you got John Schmulkin,
Lance Meadow here in East Weather for New Jersey. Thank
you so much for the time today. We appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Glad to be with you.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
All right, Bill, I want to start here.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
The Giants I think are an interesting spot in terms
of their third overall pick, and I'm curious from a
general manager's perspective, how you would approach this if you
were the Giants. They did a good job in free
agency making them not as desperate for a quarterback at
least for this year, but they still don't have a
future franchise quarterback on the roster, and I think with
Cam Wore likely going one, you'll be sitting there at

(02:09):
three with your best quarterback on the board, having at
least a tier down from your best position player on
the board. But it's a obviously a position that is
the most important one on any NFL or huster as
you well know, having Peyton Manning and Jim Kelly as
as the quarterbacks of the two teams that that that
that you help lead to the Super Bowl. So how

(02:30):
would you approach us if you're the Giants? And how
much do you have to sometimes bump a quarterback up
your board just to get one sometimes?

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Well, this is an ongoing dilemma that happens every year,
and frankly, the results haven't haven't been great in recent times.
Let's start with with a Bedrocke and and we followed
this all the way back in Buffalo and the the

(03:00):
eighties and most recently with Tony Dungee INDIANAPS in the
two thousands. When you're in the top ten, you should
be looking for a player number one who's a game manager.
Number two ought to be at one of the following
positions quarterback, running back, receiver essentially someone who scores touchdowns,

(03:28):
a corner with ball scales who intercepts the ball, and
an and or a player who can affect the quarterback
as a pass rusher, either inside or out. Inside being
the hardest one to find. Outside Russiers are somewhat easier
to find. And then failing that, if no one is

(03:51):
in the mix, who's a game changer at that position?
At those positions, excuse me? Then go ahead and and
take a left tackle of points available. If not, you
should think about trading out now. The question, the second question,
or the second part of the equation, is should you

(04:12):
bump a quarterback up? The answer is probably not. History
tells you that there's more failure there than success. And
so let's say is your fifteenth rated player on the board,
or you're eleventh player on the board. Should you bump
them up to three because they're hard to find? The

(04:34):
simple answer is that's a gamble. The fact is that
if there are eight or seven or six players more
highly rated and better chances of helping your team, that's
probably what you should do. As I say, it hasn't
happened in the past. We've had quarterbacks, and I apologize

(04:57):
when I say this all the time because pick on
the poor guy, good guy, and it's a reasonably good
professional career Mitch Trubisky, but he's a prime example of
a guy who probably should have been drafted at the
lower part of the first round in stat who went
all the way up at the top and didn't work out.
And there are lots of other examples like including most

(05:19):
recently you know Baker Mayfield, who took a long time
and they contribute to winning at his third Tien.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Bill. It's Lance Meadow. It's great to speak with you again,
and I hope that we connect again down the road.
Always appreciate your insight and so forth. I want to
piggyback off of your point with respect to, you know,
whether or not you should move up to grab a quarterback,
because there's some thought that, well, maybe the Giants will
be in position next year to grab a quarterback and perhaps,

(05:48):
you know, kick the can down the road type of
a philosophy. Does that change anything in terms of where
you think they are as a franchise and the fact
that Russell Wilson is here does that buy them? I
guess more time is what I'm getting at that maybe
the level of urgency to bring in a young guy
is not as overwhelming as it would have been if
they didn't have a veteran presence.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Oh, there's no question about it. The fact that Russell
is there gives them a veteran president's presence who's been
a proven winner in the National Football League. Is he
still a proven winner? We'll find out. But the fact
that he's there indicates that you can line up and
and and you can play competitively in the NFL with

(06:32):
him there, so that that certainly doesn't you're not forced
into using a very high pick on a quarterback. Now,
you could take you could trade out, you could take
one down the line, you could take one in the
second round if you wanted to. All of that is,
all of those options are available. But Russell is a
veteran winning presence, a guy with a winning track record

(06:56):
uh to fill the position. So that makes the job
back of a lot easier. And it was a smart
move by Joe and Dave's both to, you know, bring
him in there.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
You mentioned the possibility of a Day two quarterback, Bill,
I wonder what your philosophy is in terms of picking
quarterbacks outside the first round. The hit rate goes way down.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
But there is.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
History of guys getting picked outside the first one that
have been successful. So what is your philosophy in terms
of Day two or even to a lesser extent, day
three quarterbacks? Where is it worth just getting a guy
in the building and maybe he hits, or is there
too much opportunity costs there and passing on another good
player at another position? What's your philosophy in terms of
attacking the quarterback position on day two or later?

Speaker 4 (07:37):
I think when you're I think when you're in day
two or later and you have a feel for a
quarterback and he shows you based on your analysis, not
what you read or hear, but analysis in house, that
he's got a chance by all means pull the trigger

(07:59):
because they are very hard to find. And and rock
Perty is the expros uh, you know, the last player
taking the draft. He's going to get at extension with
Choco Horse probably certainly. But the fact of the matter
is that if if if you feel the player uh

(08:23):
real potential at that position, uh from day on, go
ahead and make that pick. More importantly, Brian Dable has
a really correct a working with quarterback as and b
knowing what he wants in it quarterback, so uh analysis

(08:44):
would would with the GM, and then Joe is a
very smart and quality competent. If I were the GM,
i'd listen, hof if my head coach would track track
record like Dames said, Okay, hey, listen, this guy has
a chance that by all.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Means, are you shooting for a upside their bill?

Speaker 3 (09:06):
For example, I'll give Jalen Mirroll as an example here,
I think is probably going to take a year or
two to figure things out, but man, the athletic profiles
off the charts. Or are you looking for somebody maybe
with a little bit more of a proven track record
like the two guys with upside that I look at
it this draft, just to give an example, Or Jayalen Mirrow,
I know he's an older project, but I think Tyler
Shook has some pretty good high level traits even though

(09:27):
he's an older player. Or you're looking for somebody that
maybe you wouldn't consider, you're considered a little bit safer,
that maybe you can come in and rely on a
little bit right away. Or does the fact that Russell
Wilson's here allow you to pick guy that's maybe a
little bit more of a project and has a little
bit more of an upside swing to him.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Well, first of all, as I just said, and it
bears repeating for the question, it's been on your analysis.
Of course, based on the giants analysis. What make body
else thinks so traits that they want manifest to that
player in order for you to take the chance. Who
that player is remains to be seen or what anybody

(10:04):
else thinks about him is im material. If the traits
are there, by all means make the pick. But they
have to be your traits. And we can conjecture about
this guy or that I haven't heard Brian Daviles likes
the voice. So that's that's that issue now, you know.

(10:26):
Depending on the other thing is that no rookie quarter
I don't care whether he's taken first or is absolutely
ready to play not. It's this is a fallacy that's
been promulgated the strig quarterbacks and bitch by the financial
growth of media. Rookie quarterbacks will play. They simply don't see,

(10:53):
and more in this stage than ever because the college
offenses and the college systems and the college practice regimen
does allow them to develop the kind of skills that
they need to play in the NFL. That's not a
knock on college coach. Their GOB is the win football game.

(11:15):
The bounds that the sense for them, So it's not there.
You're not to develop the NFL quarterbacks. Quarterbacks who come
in basically buy and large from the colleges these days
don't have the skills to compete right away in the NFL.
They have to be developed. And all they have to
do is look at Bryce Young in the and in
Chicago last year, and that's im proof of it. Sure

(11:39):
fields and you could keep from back and back. We
com beat that horse to death. They're simply not I
didn't come well, I'm.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Build too right to your point, I any need to
cut you off, especially the ones who are not multi
year starters in college, because that means you need even
more leeway to develop them to get to the point.
And that brings me to you look at guys like
cam Ward and Shadeur Sanders, is how do you evaluate
or how does that change your mindset of even whether
you would move a player up on your ranking sheet

(12:08):
with respect to multiple years of starting experience in college,
similar to the Bill Parcells school of thought, wanting a
minimum x amount of years of starting experience and how
much that gets involved in the room and the analysis
when you're looking at quarterbacks, especially in this year's class.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Well, I can tell you when I do it, and
I'm as old as the Hills. I still follow Bill's dictum.
I think it's right, come in with less than thirty
starts and done relatively well. Relatively well, but I think
still important. And Trubisky is a prime example of day.

(12:50):
He's part of If you've get less than a full
season or all this full season in North Carolina, I'm
absolutely not ready to come in and play. But they
all are not. You know, we here we talk about
a lot of footwork and mechanics and all those things.
All of us are lacking simply because the colleges don't

(13:11):
have time to teach them, and so they make do
with what they have. But over the course of the
NFL season, which is much longer than the colleges, and
the competition is much higher and the careers are much lower.
If you don't have a sound mechanical putting no pun intended, uh,

(13:34):
you're not going to succeed. And you know, we see
people like, uh, the young guy in Jacksonville, you know,
the head coach. They're saying we work on We're going
to work on his He's four years into his career,
so what they to play and you be able to

(13:55):
recognize that and and say, okay, this is at work progress.
If a player can come in as a rookie and
sit for you, as Patrick Mahomes did and have benefit
of great coaching, which is what a Reid gave, then
he's got a much better chance to succeed that Those

(14:16):
are just acts. You can't deny the facts.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Interesting, you know, you mentioned I think what gives someone
like me when I watch these quarterbacks?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Bill makes it hard.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
These college offenses just don't translate to the NFL a
lot of the time. And it's for it's almost unilaterally
across all these systems. So does that and I wonder
what that's like for coaches and for general managers watching
the same tape. And then how important are these, you know,
either private workouts, maybe more importantly, sitting down with these
guys in front of the board, in front of video
and understanding how they see the game, what they were taught,

(14:48):
why they did things they did in college, to give
you an idea of how the quarterback processes information, which
can be so important to how much they can have
success in the National Football League.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, two separate questions in both good ones. On the first,
absolutely right. The present college offense is particularly the pure
air raid form of them, do not translate well to
the NFL. Again not the college is fault and quote
build ourselves. In a conversation we had years ago when

(15:25):
I said, what's happening. We get guys who are coming left?
He said, listen atives are what they send us. Well,
that's absolutely true, we are and there needs to be
growth and developments. Point one point two As to the
private workout and the individual day in the building and board,

(15:53):
looking at tape, going through a walkthroughs and things of
that nature, absolutely completely, one hundred percent necessary. As the
pro days absolutely a waste.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Of time.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Because the Pro Day is a television show that it'll
just if the combine has become a dousion shows great
for it's fine. Uh, you know the colleges have to
do that, but it's scripted. It's not there. It's with
the receivers that the guy has worked with. He's thrown

(16:34):
that same same workout fifty times before the actually go on.
There's no real value to that. The real value isn't
being able to find out not a test thing, not
by protesting. I mean you can, you can do that,
but it's only a very small good quotion. By sitting

(16:56):
down on the board with the film talking about what
you see, what you what you did this, what coverage
it was, et cetera, et cetera. That tells you a
great deal about processing, which the most important trait of back.
And if a quarterback in the NFL can process quickly,

(17:17):
they cannot play at a high level. It's that simple. So,
as I said, those were great questions and individual meeting
with the quarterback, with any candidate that matters most importantly,
the quarterback is critical.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
What was it like sitting down with Peyton Manning when
he came in for the pre draft one on one
to work with you guys in the meeting on the board?
Did did the things just pop with you where you
were like, all right, this guy is something special just
because of the way he approached the game mentally.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
Well, it did when we work him out. We had
a private workout at Tennessee. Is it toured the forums?
The meeting with fifteen minutes of course, which is more
again than window Dreasurd was funny. He came in as usual,
he had his his uh or as we came to

(18:09):
know it would be, he had a yellow pad with him.
He sat down and we exchanged pleasantry, and he said,
I have a few questions. Would you mind if I
asked him? We said not at all. So he threw
his list of questions, and all of a sudden the
home flows. As you probably know, they use a clock horn.
You know, it sounds like sixteen they're coming at you.

(18:32):
That ends the meeting. And so he got up and
he said, well, you know, it's been meetly you guys,
and I hope you draft me. I'd love to be
here and i'll be here day after the draft if
you take me. And he walked out. We looked at
each other and said, holy macroly just interviewed us, not
the other way around.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Well, Bill, to further that point, as we're talking with
Bill Polly and Pro Football Hall of Fame general manager
who led multiple teams to the Super Bowl, with respect
to the conversations that go on in the room, how
important is conviction? What I mean by that, Bill is
you know, you, as a general manager, you may like
a guy if We use Dab's as an example. He

(19:14):
may like a guy because of the system or whatever
it may be, and how you go about navigating those conversations,
especially if things you picked up on during the board
analysis of the quarterback may have shifted one of your
philosophies in compared to what you saw on film during
the regular season or postseason.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
Take well, have an inconsistency, you have to explore it.
You got to go back to the tape. You've gotta
discuss it fully, go back whatever testing you've done on
the player and discuss it so that you can arrive
at consent. That's what all the meetings are about, is

(19:59):
to explore everything about the player. Make sure that you
checked every box so if you if you there is
an inconsistency, if something shows up where there's a wide
disparity between the one and season as opposed to another,
you got to work hard at it to try and

(20:19):
arrive at the at consenus and always be on data.
You never go wrong by going back to the film.
It is all the most this positive part of the process.
It'd be amazed that again great that it happens all

(20:39):
the time. That's why these meetings take a long time.
They're probably ongoing, and probably they are ongoing right now,
and they take a long time because you want to
make sure that every boy just checked and and we'll
see things differently. So it's the GM's job if he's
considered to meet UH to make sure all about the check.

(21:02):
You with a consents on a player and went up
to at the top of the first round. It's really
all the more important.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
We're joined by Bill Pollian's six time NFL Executive of
the Year. Bill, you've been doing this since nineteen eighty
five when you became the Bills personnel director. I'm not
sure you ever saw a player correct me if I'm wrong,
quite like Travis Hunter that played every snap on both
sides of the ball in college. You talked about the
guys you would want to pick in the top ten.
You mentioned a cornerback with ball skills, Well he can
do that. You mentioned a guy that can score some touchdowns,

(21:34):
Well he can do that too. How would you evaluate
and stack on your board a guy like Hunter that
in some way And I'd like you to talk about
how you would try to plan around a player like this.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
It can help you on both sides of the ball.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
Well, I told you, I'm all I've seen a player
like that, two of them, Deon Sanders and Rod Woods.
But that's neither here or there. The the way you
look at him, I'll give you my opinion. Now, obviously
and other disagree with this and should. But number one,

(22:12):
it's impossible to play two positions full time in the end, yep,
this can't be done. You know, the person who would
wear out his career will be shortened. It's just it's
just to do length of season, quality of opponent, etc.

(22:33):
So then say, well, okay, but what's the dominant trait
that he had? Trades plural and our football team I
happen to think he's despite the fact that you know
he's not a killer from run, I think he's got

(22:54):
lockdown capabilities and there's absolutely no question he's got and
know less when we talked of ourselves before, no less.
Another expert that I Reviewedny Dungee, values both skills as
the most important ability in the corner. So he's got
an abundance and he gives you the added advantage of

(23:18):
being able to run specified routes specified situations i e.
Zone two minute, things of that nature. His route tree
is only developed at this entirement. That's perfectly understandable. Again
not a criticism, excuse me in both ways. So the

(23:41):
the what where I see him is as a guy
who has absolutely starting lockdown corner ability coupled with unique
and perfect ball skills and and and gives you an
added plot on offense and certain specified visions. A don't
have to wear a practicing and be where he's got,

(24:03):
you know, elimited, we're out, treated that he can run
that I'm out.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
It's interesting, Bill, because the Giants have Troy Brown on
their staff, the former Patriots defensive back wide receiver who
did both. But as you hit on, he did not
become more of a defensive back until he was about
ten years into his career, when he had a better
grasp of schemes and systems and so forth. So how
would you if you did bring in Travis Hunter, how

(24:33):
would you navigate when you would want to branch out
a little bit? More so, assuming you start him off
as a corner as you just mentioned, Bill, because you
see him as an ideal position their value wise in
terms of being a lockdown corner, how much would you
throw out on his plate in terms of what he
contributes as a wide receiver, or we talk about multiple seasons.

(24:54):
Would you do it immediately? What would be your timeline
in terms.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Of that department, Well, I think I think I'll take
a pay jam from Tommy Dune's with a player that
you had there with the Giants. I think it's his
career with the Giants. He was a safety at Howard University.
Saw him as the corner. We thought he'd be a

(25:17):
terrific corner, did the scout department, And so I took
the tape to Tony and they would think, and he said,
let's start him out. Say to begin with, he'll be
more comfortable there, and it'll give him a great opportunity
to show what he can do. And after a year,
if we think he's of a playing corner, then we

(25:39):
can move him. And fine. As it turns out, Mini
camp was had in many for the Once Tony came
over and said to me, I think we'll leave him
at Safe. He was there fourteen years. The name is true.
Here apply the logic. You put him at in where

(26:02):
he's most comfortable. And now I know he says he
wants to play both ways, and that's perfectly laudable. But
we all know it's it's tough to do. But if
he's going to be a starting play is without question
he should be. If you're drafting him that high, then
you put him at the positions where he's going to
be most comfortable and where's he can most quickly adapt

(26:24):
to the NFL. And and you know you can adapt
quickly in the secondary because you can basically put him
in man de man situations. A lot of times he
doesn't have to recognize routes or coverages and things like that,
so uh not see, but it's easy to do. I
think to put him at the corner and let him go.

(26:47):
Then after a year, after you've seen him, you've seen
what they're doing where you use him and some special
situations as a receiver, you can sit down with him
and make judgment after he's had a year in the
NFL and and you've had a year to look at him.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
All right, Bill, final question for me, The power has
gone out in these Brotherford. The Giants cannot get any
communications as if it'd Bill Pollyan. You have to make
the selection at number three, and it's completely up to you,
your evaluations, your judgment. We can't get you any information.
This is all on you. What would you do and
how would your approach the Giants pick at three in
this year's draft.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
Well, I would take the player that I thought best
hit our system based upon what I know of the
player within the context of how the Giants looked at it.
The likely if it were based on what I know,
which is less than fifty percent of what Dabs and

(27:43):
Jail not, I'd probably go for a defense.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
The fair enough. Well, just as a quick follow up, Bill,
I guess and this goes back to what you were
talking about with Travis Hunter. When you have a player
that has the potential to contribute on both sides of
the ball, regardless of where you start him out, who
do you think has more upside a player like that
for a team in the long term of the short term,
or a quarterback like a Shador Sanders per se.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
It's a nonsted question because again I don't have all
of the data, and I'm not even close to allure
all of the testing. Is I shouldn't have I don't
shouldn't have. But basically, if unless the quarterback, here's what

(28:34):
you will. Let's go back to the old Dave Gettleman thing.
Who is the best football player. Who's the guy regardless
of position that's going to change in front. Who guy
that's going to win games for us based on his
own ability? Because when you're in the top ten, that's
who you're looking for. Fly that test and that will

(28:58):
get the answer.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
No, I think that makes sense. But and we should
just ask you. You mentioned a defensive player. One guy we
haven't mentioned is Abdul Carter. Obviously you don't have the
information on his specific injuries. I'm not asking you about that.
But when you do have a player that maybe is
coming off an injury or has something that has been
flagged as could be a problem down the road, how
much and how does that impact where you might stack
them once you get that report from medical each each franchises.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
The Giants have advantage of having any Barns who's Yoda,
you know, he knows everything medically, and a really good
medical they have. So the bottom line, that's a medical decision.
If the doctors say we're wary of this based on
standards that we've used forever and data that we have

(29:50):
that shows that are plut this kind of injury is
a risk, then you move him down or you move
him off the board. Ly that's a medical decision, and
I've always believed doctors and this positive thing. They are
doctors and trained. Lucky you have that one, Ronnie. You know,

(30:13):
that's just positive. That's the that's the eyebreaker.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Awesome, And of course they have the great doctors at
HSS as well that can have valued all that stuff.
Bill Pollion, Pro Football Hall of Famer. I've got to
the super Bowl with two different teams, the Buffalo Bill's
Indianapolis Colts. Also general manager of the Carolina Panthers. Six
time NFL Executive the Year. Thank you so much for
the time, Bill, We really do appreciate it. Keep up
the great work on Sirius. Love listening to you on
those shows on the radio. Thank you so much, and

(30:39):
enjoy the rest of the draft process.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Bill, Thanks guys.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
That's Bill Pollian. Great insight from him, and he's been
doing this for so long.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Lance.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
I love that he has like these core principles that
he like still believes in because they're tried and true
in a lot of ways. And he talked about some
of the stuff Bill Parcells talked about just I think
I wanted to get a general manager's take on how
they would approach the big questions we keep asking each
other about this draft process.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
You know what I mean, Well, Bill Pollion's old school,
and he'd be the first one to admit that. I
don't say that as a negative. I think it's a
good thing. I mean, I've had a lot of conversations
with him off air, He's got plenty of war stories,
He's been battle tested, and I still think there's room
for the core old school principles John in today's league.
I think, you know, there's a lot of people and

(31:24):
I'm not pooh poohing on analytics per se, but when
the computer didn't necessarily always provide the answer, sometimes, you know,
you had to go with gut, you had to go
with conversation, you had to go with other forms of evaluation.
And I still think there's room for that. That's why
it's no surprise. And I brought up Bill Parcels, and
Bill Pollion said he talks to them even to this day.
You know, some of his colleagues who were in the

(31:46):
league and making key decisions at the same period of time.
Why because they all have that bond and that shared philosophy.
But you know, one of the things that he hit on,
and we emphasized this on this show multiple times, is
you could sit here and watch all of the bells
and whistles as I like to call them, in terms
of what goes on through the draft process. And it's

(32:06):
great to see the combine drills, and it's great to
see the individual workouts, but at the end of the day,
what happens behind closed.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Doors, it's the stuff we don't see, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
It is far more influential than anything else that you
will ever see on television that anyone will ever cut
on social media, and.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
That's finding our great production team, and that's why I
asked him the question about the private workouts in the meetings.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
And it was a very valid question, and you know,
he talked about even things that we've seen in terms
of previous Giants Life episodes where remember Dames and Jade
and Daniels on the board, remember.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
A few years back, Jaj McCarthy, all those guys.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
And one of the things that I always picked up
from that meeting that goes back to what Bill Polonie
talked about evaluating the process is if you remember Daves
would have a conversation with the quarterback, and then five
minutes later he'd be like, Hey, recite back the play
that I asked you about the first go round, and
then you would be able to tell, hey, does a
player retain the laundry list of items that you threw

(33:05):
out at them? And the big picture, John May, It
may not seem as fancy, it may not seem fantastic,
but the little nuance is that you're testing a player
in within the confines of that meeting could give you
maybe a little bit of a taste of what may
happen during a practice or a huddle five or six
weeks into the season, which you cannot necessarily tell and
evaluate purely based on the regular season.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
I even go back to hard knocks last year when
they had the wide receivers in. You remember that them
all on the same day and then Mike grow is
at those Oh you know which one do you like better?
You could get some incited.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Fighter or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
But even how they think how they redefense is what
do they say, what coverage do you see?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Well, how do you react to that coverage? Like how?

Speaker 3 (33:45):
And then how quickly can they figure that stuff out?

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Right?

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Because if you can't figure it out quickly on the
board on video. You're certainly not going to figure it
out when you're looking at it in live time on
the field. When you got to figure that stuff out
like in the second a half, right, you just got
to make that decision. So, uh yeah, I think it's
interesting and I think you do get a lot And
Joe Shane and Brian Dave will both talk about how important,
especially with the quarterbacks, those one on one and not
even like throwing sessions are, but I think getting them

(34:09):
in front of the board on video kind of figuring
out with these offenses especially you know, Shoor Sanders has
Pat Sharber. You watched that college offense, even a pro offense,
it's not as college offense, Jackson Dark college offense. Most
of these offenses are college offenses. They're just not pro offenses.
So in order to figure out how these guys are
gonna project, you really gotta for the people that know

(34:31):
this stuff inside out. You gotta get him on the
board and talk to him about it, and that's how
you get to figure that stuff out. So we did
have shotores pro day, by the way, and by the way,
we are doing the show live from the Hackensack and
Maridine Health podcast studio, Keep getting Better, John Schmuck Lance
Met will open up the phones for you with two
on one nine nine four five one to take your
calls the next twenty five minutes.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
You're talking.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Giants football Pro Day was Friday. I thought it was
fine to be honest with you. You know, he showed
accuracy fitting right here. Is is short passes, that nice
little wobble autum, just like Eli short passes.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
He still and he was the here.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
The Manning's always making fun of themselves about not throwing
a tight.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Spiral through a really nice deep ball, it actually is.
And I've been thinking about this comp a little bit more.
And we're gonna have Dane Brugler on the John Huttle
later on this week. I'm gonna talk to him about it.
Shadoor has a little of Russell Wilson in this game.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
You know.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I don't think he's quite as mobile as Russell Wilson
was when he came out of school. I think Russell
was maybe a little bit better athlete. Shardor is obviously
a little bit bigger, and I think he accesses the
middle of the field a little bit better. Than Russell
Wilson does, but they both throw a similar high arching
deep ball.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
They both tend to hold the ball a little bit yep,
maybe more than they should.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
They like to run around a little bit and then
make a play. So I think there is some similarity
there in some of the ways they approach the game.
Not all the way, but it's just something that I
was thinking about over the weekend.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, I think turning nothing into something is something that
comes to mind when you look at Sanders. Also, he
didn't have a great offensive line during his playing days
at Colorado. Now you know that's the other part of
the equation when you're evaluating a quarterback. Do you like
the fact that he was able to handle circumstances that
weren't great and know that, hey, when you experience life

(36:09):
in the NFL, your house is not going to be
in order every single game. So you've seen him battle
tested in that department. I think that's a positive. And
you say, okay, I mean that was sudden.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
We talked about with Daniel Jones coming out right like
he was always at a talent deferential a.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Duke correct, So you know that exposes you to circumstances
for a player. That is a little bit different if
you're looking at a player that has a great offensive
line or had a tremendous run game and John they
barely faced a third and long because everything they did
they snapped their fingers and moved the chains. You don't

(36:43):
know then, I mean, you could bring a guy up
on the board, but can you really tell how he
can deal with adversity. But I think you got to
taste of adversity with both of the projected top two
quarterbacks of this year's class, because, as I mentioned, Sanders
was not surrounded by great play up front, and cam
Ward did not have a good defense, so he had
to be involved in an offensive clinic. No he did
not ninety five percent of the time. So you got

(37:05):
a taste of Okay, how those quarterbacks handled that that
I think is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Which is abasa by the way, last year Jayden Daniels
had great wide receivers and a really good offensive line,
like he had it easy on offense. Now, their defense
stunk in LSU last year two years ago. I guess
it is now right, but he had a great situation
on offense and that ended up translating anyway.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
So yeah, but all of these states, once again extra
items that adds and takes away from the evaluation process.
But I think getting back to your comparison of Russell Wilson,
I don't think that's a stretch at all. I think
based on what I've seen out of Shadur in college.
You know, even if you look at some of his
late game heroics, whether it be a hail Mary throwing

(37:43):
it up to Travis Hunter, I mean, there were times
where he would look to buy time. Russ clearly at
this stage in his career can get away with a
little bit more of that because he has seen it
and he's done that. I guess my concern would be, hey,
that's great that you didn't in but you do also
want to adopt the mindset that the amount of time

(38:04):
that you had the luxury to work with John Okay
as a college player, it's gonna be very different year one,
whether you play or not in the NFL, because you know,
the gaps close so much quicker, the play up front
is a little bit different because of the athletes you're
seeing on the opposite side of the ball. So I
think those tendencies are good, but you just want to
make sure the player can adapt to not necessarily following

(38:25):
that game plan moving forward all the time.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Now with you, we have a couple of lines. By
the way, if you want to get any your two
one nine, three, nine four five one three will take
your calls. Talk some draft talks and Giants only two
and a half weeks away. Lance Draft starts on Thursday,
April twenty fourth, under three weeks.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
We're closing in quickly.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
We mentioned off the top it looks like cam Ward
is locked in, and now the Browns are pretty much
on the clock here. They have to figure out did
they have the same questions we're asking Bill Pollid right?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Do they?

Speaker 3 (38:51):
The Giants and the Browns are very similar circumstances where
both teams have pretty good upfront players already. The Browns
have Miles Garrett, who's pretty good. The Giants that have
Dester Lawrence and Bryan Burns. So I think you're add
into a strinth there. I think the Giants and Browns actually,
if they need the march out there and start a
secondary today, I think they could. You know, they have

(39:14):
newsome Ward and Emerson in Cleveland. The Giants obviously have
Phillips Banks and a debo, but I think both teams
could also use some help with wide receiver. The Brown's
probably a little bit more than the Giants in my opinion,
based on how their wide receiver group is set up,
and both teams obviously need a future long term solution
at quarterback. So I think both teams are probably in

(39:34):
the market for the same three players we've been talking
about here, and it'll make the Giants decision, I guess,
a little bit easier when they get the three because
one of those three guys will probably be off the board, going.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Out on a limb there. But I support your cause.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I was not trying to be bold there, lads. I
was just stating the facts of the situation.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
It's just the case it got over members of the audience.
I just wanted to provide some clarity, but in all seriousness,
not a hot take. Yes, Cleveland, not that I've a
going to market down as well. Anyway, Cleveland is going
to change the trajectory of the draft now, and I'll
say that is a bold statement to a certain degree,
because wherever they go is going to determine whether or
not teams are now going to have to go to

(40:13):
Plan B, Plan C, or stay the course, so I
could see Cleveland's certainly going after the quarterback. And I
keep going back and forth with this because I say
to myself, you're Kevin Stefanski. You've been here for several seasons.
You were Coach of the Year two years ago. How
many more years do you want to go through the
revolving door of signal callers where you've got to play

(40:35):
john four or five different quarterbacks. I mean, the Giants
went through that last season, and you know, based on
the commentary from Brian Dable and Joe Jane, they do
not want to have to experience that all over again,
which is why they've completely revamped the quarterback depth chart.
And I don't think that's stunning, but going through it
for one year is tough enough. Kevin Stefanski has gone

(40:55):
through it for two years in a row. So do
you come to grips with the fact we could play
the game of moving veterans around and we could see
whether or not Deshaun Watson is going to hold up
and I think that that ship has sailed, Or do
we now have a clean slate and do we look
to bring in a young quarterback and develop him. That

(41:16):
would be a sensible move. But then again, if you
don't love the quarterback, then I would not advise you
just take the quarterback because you're tired of going in
circles every single year. But just from a pure basis
of a quarterback will be accessible at number two. What
you've experienced previously, Kevin Stefanski and the Browns coming off
a year in which I would say the team took

(41:37):
a step back based on what they accomplished with Joe Flacco.
Sure that would once again, if you take all the
logic into consideration, it screams at you quarterback, quarterback, quarterback,
but you also need to say what could very well
help you in other areas of the team. I don't
think a dual carter personally, because of who they already

(41:58):
have upfront, is a huge necessity for them. I to me,
it would be Travis Hunter versus the quarterback. Probably to
me is the debate. If I'm Cleveland, Let's say if.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
They draft Travis Hunter, right, Okay, who the hell's.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Throwing that dude the ball? Meaning you limit the upside, unless,
of course you're bringing him in as a corner and
that's how you envision him. And then maybe you're not
necessarily having that conversation. Okay, great, and then you score
what like two points and you put an over amount
of pressure on your defense again. So I mean, no,
I'm with you. I don't think it's an easy answer.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
And I think, and this is what Bill Pollyon was was,
I think referencing when I asked him this basically bit,
this basic question to start the interview. To me, if
you don't see that much distance between Shadoor Sanders, Jackson
Dart and that next group of quarterbacks, you should not
pick him at three. If you think there is a

(42:50):
significant gap between Sanders and that next group, and Sanders
is very close to cam Ward, you should probably take
shudor Sanders there. And I think it's really that simple.
I think different people look at it in different ways.
I've had so many, I mean, Pierson's cut them off.
So many guys come on the Gihants huddle, and I'd
say it's probably sixty five, thirty five, seventy thirty seventy

(43:13):
percent probably say they have him closer to the Darts,
and I think thirty percent probably say they have him
closer to cam I think we just had Matt Miller on.
I think he said he had him closer to Cam
that he had that he had to Dart or whoever
the third quarterback might be on their board. So I
think that's really the question you're asking yourself, because if
you can get a player that's similar at thirty four,

(43:34):
it will be criminal mismanagement to select that player at three.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
Sure, but if you really think that he is a
chance to be the franchise level quarterback, then you pick
him at three. And I think I have no idea
what the giants evaluation is. I know how I think
about it and how I feel about it. I've been
very vocal about that and all of our programming. But look,
I'm to Bipoleon's point. You're gonna put your trust in
Brian Able to tell you if he thinks the coquarterback's

(44:00):
gonna be good at the quarterback can be the guy.
And Brian Dale comes back and tells you, I think
this guy could be our quarterback for fifteen years and
lead us to Super Bowls, then you pick him at three.
So in all, and Bill made this point many times,
that matters what the Giants' evaluation is and whether or
not they're traits that they value, that they think they
need for a player to succeed here if George Sanders
has them to make it worthy to pick at three.

(44:21):
And that's the ultimate question here as to.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
What the Giants are going to do well. And just
to go back to your initial point, I would probably
figure if you had a conversation with all thirty two
front offices, you're gonna find the evaluations are all across
the board in terms of some teams love Sanders, some
teams have him in the second batch of quarterbacks. But
what's also interesting if you tie things together between the

(44:45):
Giants and the Browns, John is the fact that you
have the two head coaches are very immersed on the
offensive side of the ball, right Kevin Stefanski, offensive minded
coach who has been an offensive coordinator. Brian Dable, offensive
minded coach who is called play and has done it
for the Giants. Same thing with Stefanski for Cleveland. So
the opinion of the head coach here is that much

(45:09):
more interesting substance wise, because that head coach is going
to be working with this signal caller on a daily basis,
up close to personal. Not to say that other head
coaches wouldn't but the relationship, is what I'm getting at,
is so much entangled between Stefanski, Dable and the potential
rookie quarterback more so than any other teams because they

(45:32):
have their hands, their feet, and every other body part
in the cookie jar when it comes to the play calling.
So that's I guess more of a reason why I
asked Bill Poling about the conviction conversation in the room.
I think you really want to make sure if you're
a general manager, and in this case, Joe Shane, you

(45:52):
want to make sure that Brian Dable is having a
love fest over the quarterback, and same thing if I'm
in Cleveland, if I'm Andrew Berry, you want to hear
Kevin Stefanski glow up okay when he talks about the
quarterback John. If that's not happening, then you probably should
wait and go in a different direction, because you know
that those two have to work together to your point,

(46:15):
you hope ideally for years to come. If you don't
sense that excitement, If I don't hear my head coach
giving me all these different ways that he can work
with the quarterback and how he envisions lining up personnel,
then I would probably then have a heart to art
with my head coach and say, listen, if I don't
hear your gut, tell you that you can maneuver and

(46:37):
work with him. We probably need to think about going
elsewhere with the number two pick or the number three pick, respectively.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
It's like you go shopping, right, and you know, you
want to buy yourself something nice, and you go to
a store and you see something, but it's like it's
like a jacket, but it's a great but it's throwing
your box. Unless you really like that jacket, you probably
shouldn't go spend thirundred dollars on it.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Right, you can find a jacket that it's okay but
only cost a hundred bucks.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Go buy one hundred dollars, jack, don't spend three hundred
dollars on that jacket, you.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Know, and be sure. Well, the other thing I didn't
mean to cut you off. The other thing I was
going to say is when I go shopping, my philosophy
is if you don't envision yourself as I give some
other advice outside of football.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I think this is the first ever Lands Metal fashion
advice on this on the show.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Here's my violo. You got me excited. That's why I
want to bring up my philosophy is listen on the rack.
When I look at the item, if I don't envision
myself wearing it immediately, okay, if I don't get worked
up with passion, then there's no point of buying it
because probably you get worked up over a piece of clothes,
it's probably going to then go into the closet and

(47:40):
it's sit there with passion. Well that's my philosophy. Listen,
there's got to be passion everything you do in life. Okay,
as we get really spiritual process.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Say, if you can't envision Michael Jordan wearing this piece
of clothing, I could purchase it.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yes. See. The way that I live my life is
I always say, what would Mike do? Circumstance? That's you know,
how other people use another person. I'm not going to
get religious everything to me. Yes, I asked, what would
Mike do if Mike was next to me? What would
he do?

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Now?

Speaker 3 (48:06):
In fairness, now, Mike would probably just spend the money
because he has an unlimited amount of.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Money without a doubt, or actually, I don't even think
he has to go shopping. He probably goes to the
warehouse that just picks out exactly what he wants or
they specially make it for him. So he's probably not
the best example under those circumstances. When it comes to
basketball sneakers. Yes, I have pondered what would Mike do
under those circumstances? Okay, well, I pretty much have purchased
just about every shoe imaginable in his shoe line, at

(48:30):
least during my playing days. Especially, my favorites were the
Panan leather. Do you remember the ones? They were a
white one. No, no, they were white with the black
panant leather in the front. Because there were different models,
there was all black. Yep, it was white with the
black in front, blue on the bad shiny right, correct, exactly, Yeah,
that was the leather that was the standard. So if
I saw those shoes, I didn't even have to ask

(48:51):
what would Mike do? I would say I could see
myself making a fifteen foot jump shot off a crossover
of Byron Russell. But anyway, go.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Ahead, only fifteen and though that's it, only fifteen and
nothing else.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
No, no, no, I just you know you don't have
to run. I don't live and die by the three
ball like some people. I like the mid range game. Yeah,
as we try to bring it back full circle. That
was about craft strategy, draft strategy. It was purchasing Michael
Jordan's shoes and looking at the rack and determining whether
or not we can evaluate quarterbacks accordingly. So I actually

(49:22):
I did a fair bit of thinking.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
I didn't watch anything, actually, but I did do a
fair bit a bit of thinking about my quarterback strategy.
And with now Wilson and Winston in the building, lands,
I gotta be honest with you, I'm much more open
to the Jalen Milroe idea thirty four again, because you
don't need to play right away. Heck, you could be
your third strin quarterback. Oh yeah, here's what gets me excited.
This is what makes me think that, all right, maybe

(49:46):
this makes sense, all right, And I'm still very much
in the in the in the shock, and I'm milroll
into the mix.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Maybe at thirty four.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Maybe then Mirro a little bit a little more exciting
because even if you're not gonna use it as a
quarterback dish, and I'm always hasn't using a pick at
thirty four and a guy that you don't expect to
get on the field this year, like that's a problem, right,
Like you wouldn't You don't feel great about that. You
want to help your team win. But here's the thing,
even if Milroll's your third quarterback, make it back to
each week, put a package together for his athleticism. You know,

(50:17):
whether it's a running deal, you have him roll out,
you have a package of a half dozen players where
you could take advantage of his unique skill set. He
has running back ability. Right, He's two hundred and twenty pounds, he.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Runs a four to four. This guy is Adonis. Again.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
I'm not saying don't make him a quarterback and make
him a running back, but I'm saying, until he's ready
to throw it and be your full time quarterback, create
a package where you could take advantage of his skill set.
So maybe you can find a way for him to
help you. Now, add a little bit more juice to
the offense, gives you another playmaker that you can mess
around with. And and Brian Day, we know we can
scheme up stuff for running uarterbacks. We've seen that over

(50:54):
the course of his entire careers as a coordinator and
head coach. So I making I've kind of come full
circle because that's where I was on Melroe kind of
back at the end of December and the beginning of January,
and then I kind of backed off a little bit.
I'm kind of getting back there again with my thought
process where I'd love to build a weight to the
top round three.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
But with quarterbacks, it's just hard to wait.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Lance.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
These guys get overdrafted, you know how it goes.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
I don't know if you can wait, maybe you can
trade up into the back end of the second round
or something like that. But again, I think then you're
risking losing the guy. But the idea of Milroe as
a slash type weapon in his first year or two
until he's ready to be her for a full time quarterback,
And I think what gave me the idea, Daniel Jeremiah
kind of made a Cordell Stewart reference with him. Sure,
former Steelers quarterback with the slash model. Use them in

(51:40):
different ways to help him help your offense.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Let maybe be a little bit more open to the possibility. No,
I understand the logic. I guess the only thing that
I take it to consideration and there's no harm I
think in the big picture for that player. But I
think of when Taysom Hill was involved with Drew Brees
in the early stage. Well, I'm not putting a different
position though, I'm not putting no no, okay, gotcha. Meaning
you're gonna have them line up as a quarterback is

(52:06):
what you're saying. Okay, I guess my only concern about that,
even if I look at it through your lens and
we saw the Steelers do this a little bit with
justin Fields when Russell Wilson came back. There's two things.
Number One, are you disrupting the flow of your number
one quarterback in totally of the game. That's the one
thing I take it against Russell Wilson should be used
to He should, sure, but you know, remember it was
more of just Pittsburgh. They weren't doing that in Seattle

(52:28):
very often. Correct, then point for the bulk of his career.
Number Two, here's the other thing that I've been thinking
about more and more since other teams have done that.
Are you becoming, though John too predictable when you put
that quarterback.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
I think you have to be very careful in terms
of how you scheme up those stats.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
You do, because I think the defense is anything gonna
catch on every time you put Milrow in the game.
They're running, meaning you're never gonna put the ball in
his hands to throw. So how much more are you
you have to be?

Speaker 3 (52:56):
You have to be willing to put the ball in
his hands and throw, but it has to be a
very hailard package. Then play action. You know, I get
fake the read option. You could do a lot of
quick game, right, I do a lot of RPO stuff,
you know, that sort of stuff. But you're right, he
can't just be going in there to run. There has
to be the threat of a pass. Because I'm with you,
then you are predictable. I agree with you one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Well, And the reason I bring that up is, no,
you could have it built in where to your point,
it's an option within the play call, where there's something
set up. But it just seems as if if you're
a mill row and I'm just looking at it once
again through the eyes of Okay, you're a quarterback. You
maybe get on the field once or twice every two games.
What are you trying to do?

Speaker 1 (53:36):
John?

Speaker 2 (53:36):
You're trying to make the most of your one or
two plays per game, right, isn't that natural? That's human element?

Speaker 4 (53:42):
Right?

Speaker 2 (53:42):
And you don't want to play hear a ball and
he's saying to himself, well, I could try to throw
the ball and throw an interception, or I could just
try to run and do this magical play where I
get twenty yards. And I just think that even though
you have multiple options on the play, that player is
saying to himself, I'm just running. I'm gonna limit the
mistakes and I'm gonna try to do something that could

(54:04):
take advantage of my unique skill set. And I think
you're still then limiting and not truly branching out what
you could do if maybe you had another player. So
that's my only skepticism about a game plan.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Like the other part of the mineral thing that interests me,
this guy was the academic Heisman Trophy winner. I mean,
he is a very smart kid. Based on all the
interviews I've seen with him, he seems like a great kid.
Based on everything I've heard, boy who said this? I
listened to a couple different podcasts over the weekend. Somebody

(54:38):
said that they had talked to a couple different people
that it might have been Nate Tice that had interviewed
quarterbacks at the combine, And he says I didn't ask
him about it. They volunteered that. My gosh, Jalen Morrells
interview was off the chart, like he was so good
in those interviews. Sure, so I think when you have
somebody like that, much like Jalen Hurts when he came

(54:59):
out with the Eagles, you trust that guy is going
to figure it out somehow, you know what I mean.
It might take some time, there might be some bumps
along the way, but at some point that guy is
gonna figure it out. And if he didn't, if he
didn't have that to go along with the physical tools
that I talked about, I'd be less willing to roll

(55:19):
the dice I think in round two on a player
like that. But since he has all of that off
the field stuff and the intelligence and just the character
football and off the field as well, that you trust
a guy like that is going to figure out a
way to figure it out, you know what I mean.
So that gives me a little bit more confidence in
leaning that way as well.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
It's funny the more and more you were describing that,
the more and more I was reminded of Josh Dobbs,
because you remember, coming out of school he was in
aeronautics major right on your rocketside. I mean, kid is
just brilliant. I mean, let's put it that way. Now,
I don't know if he was as athletic, I wouldn't
go that far. Don't say you don't know he was
not well. The only reason I say is Dobbs has
shown athletic I mean, heck, he had that big run

(56:01):
against the Giants. Event In terms of arms strength, speed,
he does not have. Milroe is a much more complete
package in terms of the quarterback. But I guess all
I'm saying is is that I think intellect is a
key component. You want to see it out of a quarterback,
but you have to also be able to put it
in the right compartment as opposed to saying, oh he's
so smart, so everything's gonna happen. At the end of

(56:23):
the day, you still need the athleticism, you still need
the skill set, you still need the arm strength. But
I think the good news is based on what you're saying,
is Milrow is a little bit more attractive, at least
at this stage. I want to get ahead of ourselves
because it doesn't mean it's gonna all translate. But coming
out of college you like the upside a lot more
of Milrow compared to Dobbs, if you're gonna have that
similar comparison in terms of intellect.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Physically and mentally. Milroe checks every box. He's just not
great at playing quarterback yet, you.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Know what I mean. Yeah, which is kind of important,
just slightly. It's kinds been portant to the play quarterback.
But when a guy interesting to throw out there at
the right you know, he's a great basketball player.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
He just can't shoot your dribble.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
You know, those things are not that important inture of things,
so don't worry about it. All jokes aside.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
He does have all those tangibles and intangibles you know,
all right, there's nothing that you know if you if
you watch him, it's like, you know, his arm's not
good enough. He's not fast enough, he's not athletic enough,
he's not smart enough. He checks all those boxes just
to man. Look, it might never come together. That's true too.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
That's why he's not going to be a top ten pick. Okay.
You know, I do wonder.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
If the Trey Lance stuff didn't happen, would he be
getting picked higher here. Milro has playing more football than
Trey Lance did. But you know, Trey Lance checked every
box too. Yeah, everyone said he was a great kid,
really good athlete, really good arm, didn't play a lot
of football.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Still got picked third overall, right, he got trade up
third over Yeah, the Niners, I believe moved up with
the Dolphins of three.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
So you know, I I don't know, but I don't
feel comfortable making that pick in the top ten allat
of Trey Lance. But if you're talking in the second
round and you're not passing on a potential elite player,
that's the difference, right, that's the opportunity cost. If you
pick a guy like that at three that you don't
think is gonna be great, you're passing on another player.
To Bill Pollion's point, that you think can be an

(58:19):
all pro level player, Look, can you get an all
pro player at thirty four?

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Sure it's possible.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
The chances of it, though, are so much smaller based
on what the draft class looks like that I'd be
much more willing to roll my dice on a quarterback
to Bill's point, and this is Bill basically said this, Look,
if you think he has the traits, it's a position
that's hard to find in the day two. That's when
you throw the dart. You don't necessarily throw a dart
at pick number three.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
No, And I'm totally fine with that philosophy. But I'll
just echo sentiments that I showcased and I shared with
you even on this show, is that I just think
your expectations need to be a little bit more realistic
that erc you may have not found the guy. And
while Russell Wilson I think gives them leeway and luxury
as we were just because we will Boapoleon, it still
would not take off the table next year going after

(59:05):
a quarterback. Of course, not keeping other options open during
the off season, does it all of a sudden eliminate
the need in the necessity even if you're enamored with
a guy you take in the second or third round.
I just I think it's important to emphasize that what
you and I are having a conversation about is you're
not forcing the issue at number three overall, but you're
also John, this is the important part. You're not solving

(59:28):
the issue by kicking it back to a later round. Correct.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Yeah, like the Cowboys and Trader for Joe Milton, that's
not like that's a that's someone that's just on their roster.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Yeah, Look, if you look, if let's say you draft
Jayleen no Roll and he does plays I don't know,
one game this year whatever it is, place you know,
forty snaps and coming in spot do yeah, laid Maybe sure,
a couple packages here or there, place you know, fifty
sixty snaps.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Hopefully that's not the case.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
But if you're picking the top three nexts year at
a great quarterback and say that you love, you're not
saying I'm not picking it because Jayla Merrill's is the building.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
You're selecting that player, yep.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Or if some quarterback hits free agency or some quarterback
hits the trading block and lexed offseason, that proven pro bowler,
go trade for the dude, Go get him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
You're right, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
You're not solving the problem, but you're giving yourself another
You're giving yourself another potential solution to the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Potential being the keyword there. Well, you're throwing another ingredient
into the pot as I like to call it, meaning
you know there is an option there you could develop
the player year one, especially with veteran quarterbacks in the fold.
But out further your point at the end of the season,
if you want to, let's say, move on from Russell
Wilson or whatever it may be. I don't think even

(01:00:46):
if he gets those limited snaps, you're saying, oh, we're
ready to make the transition to Milrow without any hesitation
because he's shown us enough to take over as the
starting quarterback, unless.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
You're willing to really have a long term rough go
of it, but which I would be very hesitant to without.
And I don't think in many I don't think this
organization would would want to go down that road.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
So no, I'm with you. But also even if you
want to enter that territory, I would say, my comeback
to that or my counter would be what exactly did
you see in this minute sample size to me? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
But you know it goes to the draft process. It's
the stuff it would be going off, the stuff that
we don't see. No, that's there would be going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
All ye, I'd be surprised if practice showed them enough
because listen, if knock on Wood, Russell Wilson's very healthy,
you know the dynamics of practice. John Milroll was going
to be watching, It's gonna be all mental reps, especially
if he's the third string guy, without a doubt, good
luck trying to get on the field, and the backup
they barely get on the field.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
I mean, he will be running the scout team. Yeah,
and you go back, Oh, didn't the Chiefs have Mahomes
run the scout team. I think the defense was like,
we couldn't stop them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
I mean, I guess you could have a scenario like
that where the guy is just saw unbelievable as the
scout team quarterback that he could do something like that.
But no, let's I think I think we're in lockstep
on this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I agree. I think we're on the same page.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
It's a potential option, but that doesn't preclude you from
making taking another big swing at the position.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
This is a little swing, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
This isn't you know, liquidating your bank account or your
four one K and you know, basically putting it all in.
This is, you know, taking a little chunk out and
spending some capital on something and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
You hope it works out. That's all it is. Yeah, No,
there's no doubt about it. I think that's a very
good baseball analogy. You know, you're basically you're playing for
a single year and Hey, if you could get to
second base and round first and toy with it, fantastic,
But once again, expectations are realistic that you're only getting
to first base and nothing more than that, meaning you
got more work to do. The Other thing, though, I

(01:02:44):
just want to note, is with respect to your Mahomes point. Mahomes, though,
was a high first round pick with upside, So what
you were seeing in the scout team is not stunning
because he brought baggage and proof with him that gave
the chiefs a lot more confidence versus taking a flotter
with somebody in the second or the third round.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Based I want to know about doing college, your expectation
was always to get pass first base lands metal.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yes, we're not gonna try to read into that. I'm
gonna leave it at that, and I will not provide
further analysis. I was too tempted I could all right,
that's big. I sell for you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I appreciate that. No problem. That's big. Looking.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Golf Live presented back Cattle Hacke, the official luxury vehicle
of the Giants on this Monday tomorrow pulled Tatino, by
the way, texting me at one oh eight about guests
for the rest of the week. How long has he
been hosting the show that he knows you guys told me.
Looking at my phone, Datino was texting me, dude, you're
not here. I guess who's gonna be on the show
this guy, why are you texting me about guests?

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And one oh seven?

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Well, depending on what his text says, we should have
a Colorado guest on tomorrow to find me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Come on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Thanks for joining us from the Hacketsack Marine Health Podcast studio.
Keep getting better for lens Metal. I'm John Schmulk Datino.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I'll be with you to more. Alright, we'll see who
the Colorado guess when I checked my phone. Talk to
the intrigued by